What It's Like To Stay Together For the Kids— and the Mortgage Rate

I'm Nicole Lappen, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand.

It's time for some money rehab.

Would you live with your ex for a 2% mortgage?

That is a very real question that Morgan Dixon and her ex-husband Ryan had to ask themselves.

And ultimately, they said yes.

Today, I chat with Morgan, who you might have seen in the Wall Street Journal, in a piece that went viral for all the right and as I find out, a few wrong reasons.

The article spotlighted how Morgan is still living with her ex-husband because of a 2% mortgage rate.

Although, as Morgan tells me, there is more to the story, as there always is.

But as a side note, two exes living together because of a mortgage rate is my dream rom-com, just saying.

Anyway, Morgan is a real-life example of the lock-in effect, the phenomenon where homeowners don't sell their properties because current mortgage rates are relatively higher than what they have now.

The article that features Morgan and her ex says that between mid-2022 and mid-2024, the lock-in effect prevented nearly 2 million home sales.

Today, Morgan shares her story, and then we dive deeper into the financial side of marriage, divorce, and everything in between.

The interview after this.

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Morgan, welcome to Money Rehab.

Hi, thank you so much for inviting me.

This is so cool.

It is so cool to be able to talk to you.

I was so taken by your story and I just love to get right into it because I saw the headline, you and your ex-husband are holding on to your home because of your mortgage rate.

How did we get here?

Yes.

And so for me, that title was a bit deceiving.

We were definitely doing this arrangement.

Our primary reason is for our kids, you know, the benefit of our children to have us both accessible so they can see their mom and dad every day.

There is obviously this financial gain.

We just,

I think, looked around in the neighborhood and prices if I wanted to buy something else even a few blocks away.

It's just so expensive now and the interest rates are so high.

I think the last I checked was 6%.

And then I was also looking, I mean our property value from the time we bought our properties has almost gone up at least 75%.

I mean it's very, our values are increasing.

And so in our settlement, Ryan and I agree everything after we die is going to go to our kids.

And so if we can hold on to these properties for sure, after we are, our time is here in the world,

hopefully our kids will have these, you know, very nice properties that will be worth a lot that they can either live in or, you know, cash in or whatever.

So yeah, looking at it in the big picture of what could we afford now and then also, you know, 50 years from now or 20, even 20 years, 10 years from now, you know, it makes more sense for us to hold on to these properties.

So how could we make our new way of living work like that?

But how do you make it work?

Like, what are the sleeping arrangements?

We

use a note, an Apple app every week to kind of decide who gets what night.

You know, it's usually three nights with me and four nights with him, or vice versa.

We'll decide that at the beginning of every week.

We try to allocate times where I have the house totally to myself with the kids and then vice versa for Ryan.

A lot of communication and planning.

If I sleep in the house, I'm sleeping with the kids.

You know, we

basically, because I live in the Airstream trailer, or I was,

I found out after the article was published that that's illegal and the city code came and I came home with a note on the door saying no living in the Airstream.

So what?

Wait, so they saw that from the article that you were living there?

And I love our city.

Like we were unaware that that was illegal.

And they were just so kind about it.

And so since then, I've been sleeping in the house.

I do store some things out there just because I'm preparing for a build and we're just kind of sorting through stuff.

So I'll be kind of in and out throughout the day in the Airstream.

But yeah, we don't want you to get a ticket.

Sue, whoever's listening, you're not living there.

I'm not living there.

I've since moved out.

The city was just so wonderful.

And that's another thing.

I mean, we just love this community.

You know, we go to the library.

I know the librarians.

My kids have known the librarians since they're like weeks old.

Like we have nothing but love for where we live.

And so when we decided, you you know, we're getting divorced, but how is this going to work?

Neither of us wanted to move, you know.

Before I met Ryan, I had owned a home in Orlando.

And so the very obvious choice would be for me to have moved back to my old house, get my old job, or find something there.

I mean, it would be very easy for me to find, or I should say, it would be easier for me to find work in Orlando.

But then, again, just thinking what's in the best interest of our kids.

That's more than an hour drive one way.

If they want to see their dad or their friends, again, like we have so many friends and so many people we love around us here, it's just, it just didn't make sense thinking of their best interest.

We wanted to disrupt their lives the least amount of possible, you know.

They're doing great.

So when you guys were separating, it sounds like there were a few options for living arrangements.

It was sell the house.

You know, one of you could buy the other out, I presume, or you could share, which is not the most conventional option.

Were you guys on the same page with that from day one, or did you

want to sell or he want to sell?

No,

we both surf.

We live three blocks from the beach, and they touched on this a little bit in the article.

I mean, we've really invested a lot in our garden, in the house that Ryan now owns.

We've renovated a lot.

I mean, a lot of love has gone into this house and then the adjacent property.

And so we just did not want to sell.

And

even if one of us ended up here, I mean, again, to keep the other one in the nearest proximity just did not make financial sense.

And I don't want to ever come off like I have all the answers.

Like we are very, this is a very much experiment for us.

Like

we're taking it one day at a time.

We definitely still have our hard moments.

Some weeks are much better than others.

It is kind of just a lot of communication and

being honest with what's working and what's not working.

And yeah, so I definitely don't ever want to seem like, this is it.

I know how to do it.

This is a very much like today it's working kind of situation.

I'll take it.

I mean, I think everybody is still figuring it out, but don't really think of this as a potential option.

So are really curious to see how it's actually working with you guys.

And I would love to follow the numbers a little bit so it sort of colors how this all came to be and how this makes sense.

When did you guys buy the house and how much was it when you bought it?

Yeah, we were married in 2018.

So we bought this house in 2017

and

we bought it for $265, I want to say.

And now Zillow is estimating it to be

I don't, I don't know.

Let me look it up.

Yeah, his estimate for it's off, it's 583.

Okay.

And then I'm on a different property and there's a vacant property next to me and it's just the dirt.

There's nothing, no structure there.

And that's listed at 440.

You guys own that?

No.

I own the one right next to Ryan, which is the, I don't know if I want to say my address on,

but I'm directly next to Ryan.

And then there's a corner lot next to me.

And that corner lot is being listed at 440-something.

So, my point being that that lot that I'm on is even gone.

I mean, it's at least gonna be 440, maybe, you know.

So, you guys did the math, and what would it be like to rent something in the area?

So, because when the city said, I couldn't live in the airstream, I was looking for apartments because we just didn't, we didn't know if we could, you know, if I could move back in.

And basically, the one-bedroom studio that that I really wanted was $1,300 a month.

But because I have two children,

they were denying me.

I didn't qualify for it because they're only allowing two people per bedroom as like a contingency.

And so the places I was eligible for were at least $1,700 a month.

But

my current salary situation wouldn't allow me to afford that.

And so I was really in this predicament, like, well,

what really are my options?

Because the other thing is, you're not just working with owners.

You're working through HOAs.

A lot of the buildings and the homes, properties in this area are run by HOAs.

And so.

They are much harder to work with.

The owner was going to let me that one studio bath place for $1,300.

The owner was like, yeah, just move in.

It's great.

You know, my children are little.

When I was in the Airstream, all three of us were sleeping in a full-size bed.

Like, we're fine, like they said, you know, but it just kind of puts things into perspective for what a single family can actually qualify for and what salary they have to be having in order to live here.

You know, it just kind of put things into a big perspective for me.

So thank you, by the way, for being so honest about

how you guys are divvying everything up and the ins and outs of your separation and divorce agreement.

Did you guys have other shared assets like a joint bank account or retirement accounts?

How did you handle all of that?

Not really, actually.

You know, we were both very independent before we met and got married.

Like I mentioned, I had owned my house.

I had my own bank account.

I had my own retirement.

And so.

We did dip into that.

We dipped into my pension to buy the adjacent property.

Also, I received some inheritance in our marriage, which funded a lot of these renovations.

So I think in his mind too, like this is a fair route to go because I have said I've, you know, I was a stay-at-home mom for five years.

And I had a great career before then.

I loved my job.

I loved everyone I worked with.

We had our son and the pandemic hit.

And it just didn't make sense, you know, for us to try to find childcare for me to continue because I was commuting to and from Orlando.

So, yeah, we had just decided I was going to be a stay-at-home mom.

And

so, I think, again, just coming back to the bigger picture, when we decided how is this going to look, I think we both did realize like we both gave everything we could to our marriage.

I mean,

not just emotionally and, you know, but financially.

And we both were really, Ryan put a lot of work into the Orlando house.

I'm not going to lie.

I mean, he totally renovated that.

I think if you are to go this route where you do the nesting practice, you know, there is a lot of hard conversations, but it's a lot of honesty too.

It wasn't just so one-sided because even though Ryan was the primary, you know, quote-unquote breadwinner for five years, I was keeping him fed and, you know, I was keeping his laundry clean.

Like I always kept like, because he's a rocket.

scientist engineer and I was like, they should put my name on that rocket too, you know?

Well, you wouldn't be showing up

if it wasn't for me.

And I think that a lot with all stay-at-home parents you know i mean the other one can't be as successful you can't be as successful without the other 100

and there's not that you know monetary value attached to the other side so one time i tried doing the numbers you know if we hired a a nanny and a lawn care provider and a housekeeper a cook that's value that's money and i think you know thinking of the stay-at-home parents role in that way you know really helps me frame like, okay, this is a contribution for sure.

Because I struggled with it at first,

having come from a career and, you know, always since 16, being very financially stable, like independently.

So why isn't your name on the house?

Well, so in our settlement, Ryan

has this house and I ended up with the lot.

So my name, I have the deed for the lot next door.

Okay.

And then I will build on the lot.

Hopefully by March, we're, you know, we've submitted our plans to the engineer.

So hopefully I'll be submitting permits next week and we'll get going.

You know, I kind of wanted to avoid the hurricane season, but

now I'm just really

motivated to just get going.

So the plan was basically you guys had two adjacent lots.

Your ex-husband took the one that the house is on.

You took the next door one, and you're planning to build a house so you guys will always live next door to each other, it sounds like.

And it's, you know, we say always, but it's really, again, for the benefit of my kids, once my kids are 18, nothing's permanent when you have children.

Every year is so different.

And so I think in these early years, when they're young, even throughout school, but the way I'm designing my house and, you know, we talked about it is I love to travel.

I lived in Italy for a while I'm originally from Minnesota like I'm ready to go like as soon as my kids are old enough to go on adventures once you

decided that you were gonna share this home and do a nesting thing and do you know a different schedule every week it sounds like were there some ground rules that you guys set up to try to make this arrangement work?

Yeah, 100%.

We both agreed, you know, we're not going to bring guests around here you know romantic guests for at least a year

have you guys started dating again no we just even talked about it last night we have a family dinner once a week which i like it's really nice for the kids and we'll try to hang out at least once a week if it's not a family dinner we'll try to do something a bike ride or but no i think he was saying last night it's so early and i think i agree you know it's all just

kind of hitting us you know where it just happened i mean it was in april but it's still it's October now.

It still feels very different.

And I think because I'm still in the house so often, it just, I don't know, it's not like as clear of a cut break.

And again, I need the kitchen.

I need the laundry.

And if there was another option for me,

I think we would both be open to me finding an apartment for a year while I complete my build.

Financially, that just doesn't make sense because I have these funds allocated for my build.

If I start spending that on rent, you know, it just doesn't, it just doesn't add up.

So I'm just hanging tight.

It sounds like you guys are cool with each other.

Yeah, we do.

We get along really well.

You know, I'll speak for myself.

Again, like we do have our hard moments.

Something happened last week.

I'm trying to remember what it was.

Oh, we had a birthday party for my son.

And that was always just kind of...

We're always, you know, stressed out when we're hosting things.

And I'm cooking, you know, like four cakes and 18 cupcakes and you know those moments are always heightened but you know we get through it and like again like I just want to emphasize this point like I don't know if this is like the best way for every family like I don't even know if it's the best way for my family

I'm just we're trying to figure that out so far we're getting through it and so far like those hard moments we can handle you know Ryan and I both can flare up and so if we just give space sometimes and then come back to it it's always better for us.

It sounds like, yeah, the big picture is that this makes the most sense for you guys in the long term financially.

And there are a lot of potential growing pains and some things to work out.

But overall, this is the right financial decision for you and your kids.

Yeah.

Yes, I would say that.

How do you guys divide expenses now?

Like utilities, things that you're buying for the kids, property taxes.

yeah i'm paying the property taxes on my lot utilities i pay him a certain amount every month

their school my daughter is four so she didn't qualify for kindergarten so she's in this bpk program and my son is a kindergartner but we're choosing to put them into a school for three days of the week it's like a hybrid homeschool program.

Anyway,

it's not public school, so there's a cost to that, and we split that evenly.

Groceries, we both contribute.

I go to the grocery store a few times a week.

He does too, and we just kind of share everything in there.

That hasn't changed.

Do you share a car?

No, I have my own car that's paid off, and he has his car that's paid off.

Yeah, it was very easy because he also has a house he inherited from his dad.

So when we did the settlement, it was really just straight down the line.

I had my Orlando house and the lot, and he had his Daytona house and our family's home.

And so it was just kind of us deciding that together.

And then we found a peaceful mediator who just kind of formed it all up.

We had the judge sign everything, but, and then it was done.

I mean, it was like the fastest divorce, everybody tells us, like, but it was a lot of us deciding what we wanted and how we wanted it to look and what the holidays would look like.

And that's something that we, we could just figure figure out on our own, which I know isn't the case for a lot of other situations.

But again, if you can do it, that is also a cost savings.

That whole process cost us $4,000 and we split that evenly.

I know some divorces can get a lot more expensive.

And some are, I will say, and some are cheaper.

I mean, you can file your divorce independently and just take it to the court.

I know people who do that and

we just didn't have the time.

Like, we just are so, I feel like I'm taking it.

I wouldn't have had the capacity to do that.

Yeah, we've had a show on how to save on divorce.

I mean, oftentimes the lawyers really win at the end of all this.

And it sounds like you guys were amicable enough to work it out and really think about what's best big picture.

for you guys financially and not let emotions get in the way, which is so admirable.

What did people around you think about all this?

Like, were people confused?

Were they supportive?

Were they judgy?

Some people have done very similar things.

This isn't, you know, this for a lot of people, this isn't kind of groundbreaking.

A lot of families live like this and they were very supportive and understanding.

You know, if you've lived through it or even if you have kids, I feel like there's a lot of understanding there just from the situation of having your own kids.

There have other other been, you know, there have been other judgments of, you know, like this, this is crazy.

I think the worst was he had this lady be like, well, love heals everything.

And it's just like, oh, does it?

Oh, that's kind of, those kind of like comments really

heal.

But I think it's a mixed bag.

And at the end of the day, it doesn't.

the society's perception of this.

This is how the Wall Street Journal found me is because I was in these groups on Facebook, support groups for separated and divorced parents.

And this woman was writing, you know, I want to do this.

It feels like the right step for us, but I'm getting a lot of pushback from almost everybody in my life.

And so I chimed in and said, do it.

You know, I'm doing it.

It's working for us.

Like, you're not crazy.

You know, I think a lot of that fear of going this route is the society's perception or, oh man, and reading the comments on the Wall Street Journal when it published oh

I was like I can't

you know I just turned it off

I just you know the things they were saying about both of us and I you know wanted to pipe in like he's a great dad you know

but you know that's the hard part and you just have to bring it back to what's the best for your family there is a financial gain 100% but the fact that our I think our kids if you ask them what does divorce mean They'd be like, well, my parents don't sleep together.

You know, I don't think they're phased by anything else.

Like they don't have to move between cities.

They don't have to, you know, even go down a different block.

I mean, their lives have literally just not changed at all despite us not going to bed together and waking up together.

But even some mornings they do because

I'll be in here before everyone gets up.

Everyone in my family sleeps in except me.

And so they wake up and I'm in the kitchen.

It's like nothing's changed.

And I think that's our vision too, you know, especially for big moments, like big moments, birthdays, holidays.

Like we envision us being together as a family for those moments, you know, for our kids.

And knowing what you know now, what would you tell someone who's thinking about keeping a property with their ex?

Because the interest rate thing is definitely real.

Like we hear about this

for families or individuals.

Your situation is really unique, but there's this inertia with giving up low interest rates.

Well, just to also like clarify one thing,

Ryan has a property and I have a property.

So in one year, we might not be seeing each other very as much.

Today we are because we're sharing this.

I'm living in here.

So for me, I think a huge differentiator between others who are actually sharing one single property, that is it, you know, because I know at the end of the day, I'm going to have my own house and my own yard.

This is, this is very temporary and that's a saving grace.

But for now,

you know, I can speak to living together in this house.

And I would say, you know, you really have to ask yourself, like, can you communicate?

on a level-headed way because again, you're modeling everything for your kids.

Like, your kids are all, at least my kids are always around.

So like, if we have a disagreement, we both have to understand how we're going to get through that disagreement.

That isn't going to traumatize our children, you know?

And I think that is a really big thing.

You have to be honest with like, can you both handle that?

Because if you can't, you know, it might not be the best solution for you because there will be hard moments, you know, in this arrangement.

It's just inevitable.

And so

how do you communicate?

How can you handle yourself?

And when things are heated, when it's hard,

yeah, finances or things like you were talking about, how do you divvy up groceries?

And because, again, I don't think he'd mind sharing, but like when I make coffee, I spill the coffee grounds everywhere.

Like

he drives him crazy, and like that's always been a thing.

And so, like, you know, can we really tolerate these like things that we know are going to irritate us?

But

if you can also, I have so many Excel sheets on finances and like

what I need to be out of this situation.

And so, does that make sense?

I think knowing that this is temporary is very helpful for me to deal with it every day.

And so, I would suggest too, for like couples who are doing this, just telling yourself this is temporary, this is the best for your children.

Like, have some kind of like sound bite or something to come back to you that's like reassuring you because when it gets hard, you're going to want, you're going to have to stay strong somehow.

Like,

and that's, that's what works for me.

Yeah, when, not if,

for sure.

Would you have done anything differently in terms of getting a prenup or a post-nup or putting the house in both of your guys's name?

Well, we did, actually.

We had it in both of our names for a while.

We had my, both of our names on this house and the property and my Orlando house.

And so I just, I took care of my Orlando house and then I had my kids.

And so I just handed all the financial stuff over to him when I had the kids because I was barely hanging on so that's why I don't know but my name was on it and so we

again like we kind of sat down and and divvied everything out and and said how it's gonna look and then we did the quick clean deeds you know Ryan he's a very he's a really good person and a great father and so

working this out wasn't a challenge like to some extent like yeah not every not everybody can be a Ryan for sure and so would you tell other people to maybe spell it out beforehand or

do a pre-nap or post-nap yeah or have some kind of plan i mean we never sold my orlando house i never wanted to sell that house and i wonder if in a way i

i did that because

i don't know i i really don't know i mean I always thought I was just going to, you know, it was going to increase in value and I was going to leave it for my kids.

But if I didn't have that, and if i don't know how it would have you know worked out if

you know he refused to get his name off that mortgage or something like that it would have been much messier of a divorce that's for sure you mentioned you had a career before in orlando at a hospital you left to be this stay-at-home mom and now you work at a boutique right and you also babysit yeah

before the divorce were you planning on going back to work

I didn't know actually.

Ryan was like making fun of me the other day.

I'm like very much like one a day at a time kind of a person.

And so, you know, I have these visions of what I want to create in my life and where I want to be, but just kind of taking it a day at a time of how it's going to get there.

And

I

thought

I would be more fulfilled as a stay-at-home mom than I was.

And that, I don't want to say it's my fault, but I did think that it would be a better fit for me than it actually was.

And so I definitely struggled and started thinking.

I always wanted to create my own things.

And with the two little kids, it was just, it was becoming more and more challenging.

But

yeah.

I now that I'm working again, I love it.

I feel much better.

And so I feel like my old self.

And I think that's hard because you don't really know.

You think you're going to be happy going one way.

And then when you're not as much,

you know, it's challenging to pivot for the other person, I think.

What surprised you about that?

What do you think it was that made you feel unfulfilled?

No, it's a good question.

I feel passionate working with other people.

I'm very project-oriented.

And so I like being involved in effective change.

I was involved in my old previous job.

We were transforming healthcare delivery models and

when there are so many problems around us and you can design a world that is just so much more effective for all of the stakeholders involved, you know, that's exciting to me.

That brings me energy and I love having my kids and you can apply it to any industry.

I was in healthcare, but you know, look around.

Look at all the problems that everybody faces every day.

I mean, there's just an endless amount of opportunities.

And so when you can co-create a new way with invested individuals, that lights my fire.

And being with my children, of course, lights my fire too.

I mean, I love being with my kids.

I think it's just a balanced, you know,

I need, I put all the eggs in that basket.

And so I was doing my best to, I have a surf group.

I started a...

Surfing bitches.

It's a parent surf group and we take turns watching each other's kids.

Like, I was starting to find other ways that I could create things in the community that would be beneficial.

And so,

but it's still just, I just felt like I could do more.

I can be doing more.

You know, time is so limited in our life.

And I think that was kind of starting to drive me more back

into, I want to get, I want to get back involved.

in the workfield and and my and I think also them growing up you know they're less reliant on me they They want to be with their friends.

They want, you know, and they're still little kids, but they just, my daughter loves going to school.

She loves learning.

Like, that is now their phase, their stage in their life.

And so for me, I'm ready to also go back to what my passions were and to get more involved in supporting myself.

But again, you just can't predict, you just can't predict that.

You know, I thought.

Thought it would be, I'd feel differently.

And I just was wrong.

So it was the

divorce, but also your own feelings.

It was right around the same time.

It just made sense for you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

100%.

Was there anything else about the financial side of divorce that has surprised you so far?

Not really.

Again, like I was kind of prepared because I was kind of geeking out on these Excel sheets.

Like, okay, well,

you know, if I can find a car insurance for this amount, then, you know, my overall monthly income that I would need to survive would be this.

And what if I tweaked my home insurance this way?

You know, so I was just kind of having fun.

And so I really am not surprised moving forward with the jobs I have and what I'm working.

And

there haven't been any surprises yet.

You know, I have like emergency funds built in and everything like that.

So I'm praying to God there is an emergency.

But even then, I feel like I'd be okay.

But again, coming back to looking for the apartment, that was surprising to me that there was just absolutely no flex from these HOAs when I needed a place to live.

I mean, I just imagined, like, well, what if I didn't have this option of moving back in with Ryan?

You know, then I would have to go to another city or

I don't know, but then I'd be dipping into my

build fund.

And so that whole plan would change.

It just really kind of...

made me sad for a lot of the families living around here how challenging that that process is And people, it's not like an instant, it's not like we're texting and these landlords are getting back to you.

I mean, it's days and you have to apply a lot of heavy applications and background checks.

Some ask for fees.

I mean, the process is kind of treacherous in my opinion.

Like,

I just thought, oh my gosh,

how do families do this?

How do single moms do this?

They can't, you know, or they're going to, you know, work here and then live like 30 miles away.

And then that's an expense.

So,

you know, that was a surprise for me.

Well, Morgan, you've given us so much insight.

So appreciate how open you've been about this.

We end our episodes by asking all of our guests for a tip that listeners can take straight to the bank.

Is there a final piece of

money advice that you would give someone separating from their spouse?

Craft an Excel sheet.

What's in there?

Again, like your basic funds needed.

Gosh, I could pull it up.

How do I do it?

I have my home insurance, my car insurance.

I don't have health insurance, which is hilarious coming from health care.

No,

I don't.

That is something I just couldn't do this year.

But my kids do.

My kids are under Ryan's, so that's good.

And there was no option for you guys to technically stay married so that you could have health care and the rest of it.

No, no, and I understand and it's all right.

Like that's yeah, but one day I will.

And I do have dental insurance, so that's good.

Yeah, water, electric, internet, phone, car insurance, mortgage, child care, house insurance.

I have a food category and then a miscellaneous.

And so I know what I need to survive every month and then to just find ways to meet that number.

Know that before you start entering separation or,

you know, I don't want to say because every situation is so different, you know, for everybody.

Like, I don't know.

This is what worked for me.

What I'll say.

Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network.

I'm your host, Nicole Lappin.

Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavoie.

Our researcher is Emily Holmes.

Do you need some money rehab?

And let's be honest, we all do.

So email us your money questions, moneyrehab at moneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one-on-one intervention with me.

And follow us on Instagram at MoneyNews and TikTok at MoneyNews Network for exclusive video content.

And lastly, thank you.

No, seriously, thank you.

Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.