The Business of Drag with Alaska Thunderf*ck (RuPaul's Drag Race)

I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab.
Hi, money rehabbers. It's Morgan, the EP of the show, guest hosting Money Rehab this week while Nicole is on maternity leave.
Today, I'm going to be talking about the business of drag. This is an episode I've wanted to do for so long because, one, I'm just a big fan of drag, but also because it's one of those jobs where I've just always wondered how people actually make money doing it.
Today, I'm talking to one of the most iconic drag queens ever, Alaska. She goes by Alaska or Alaska Thunderfuck.
And so today I'm just going to stick with Alaska because I don't know how many times I can say Thunderfuck without the show getting canceled to already feels like I'm kind of pushing it. Alaska grew up in Erie, Pennsylvania and worked in Pittsburgh and LA before getting cast on the Olympics of drag, the show RuPaul's Drag Race.
Alaska was a runner-up on season five and

then went on to win RuPaul's Drag Race All-Stars season two. If you don't know Alaska, you just simply have to.
Her memoir, My Name's Yours, What's Alaska, is a good place to start. She has a huge fan base, 1.8 million followers on Instagram alone, and she just does a zillion different things, from performing to her drag race rewatch podcast, Race Chasers.
She makes music, she tours, she has a fragrance, and now she has a show in New York City. Alaska co-wrote and stars in Drag the Musical, which if you're in New York, you definitely should see.
And she tells me a little bit more about it in this conversation. Today, we talk about the business of drag through her story, from how she got started to redefining success after drag race, how she kept going when she had no money, and yes, how drag queens actually make money.
Here's Alaska. Alaska, welcome to Money Rehab.
Thank you so much. The's a pleasure.
It's the pleasure is all ours. I'm so excited to talk to you about the business of drag really through your story.
So let's start with you. Do you remember the first drag performance you ever saw? Yes.
I think her name was Amanda Love. Amanda Love or Amanda Hug and Kiss.
I can't remember. But we walked into like a bar and it was like one of the first gay bars ever that I went into.
And she was like lip syncing and doing a number. And I was like, why isn't she singing? I don't understand.
I had only seen like the birdcage and like Starina, like with the microphone, you know. So I was like, I didn't understand what drag was.
Do you remember what she sang and what she was wearing? No idea what she was doing, but she was huge and just like gorgeous and yeah. And so this was in Pittsburgh.
I feel like it was in like, I want to say like West Virginia or something like that.

Like, I don't.

That's a plot twist.

That is what I thought.

West Virginia.

Okay.

And so when you saw that, did you think, I want to do that immediately?

No.

No.

No, because I was like, I can't do that. I can't be that gorgeous and glamorous and beautiful.
I was just like stunned. I just wanted to get drunk, you know.
And did you? Yeah. Well, yeah.
And so this this happened in West Virginia, maybe it did not happen in Erie, where you grew up. Not a lot of drag representation in Erie.
Well, there is. I just didn't know about it.
And I think we went to West Virginia because I was under 21. And it was like, you could get into bars there.
I don't know. My memory is full of holes.
Happens. Yeah.
But even though you felt at the time that could never be me, you had an early interest in style. I read in your memoir that you would make cat woman suits out of trash bags and you would dye your contacts with food coloring.
I definitely did the contacts thing. Yes.
Just because I liked like changing my appearance. I thought it was fun.
And I always wanted to have dark eyes. Like I still do.
So when then did you for the first time think like I can do that? Like I could do drag. It was San Francisco that did that for me.
I went to the stud on my 22nd birthday and there was a show there and it was Duran Duran night and it was a drag show and it was Duran Duran is a bunch of guys. And so just that in and of itself was like, wait, like sort of all the rules of what I thought drag was did not apply.
And it was, it was scary and it was funny and it was sexy and it was gross and like messy. And I just I was like, I want to do that.
I want to do this. So I went back to Pittsburgh and I was like, I'm going to do drag now because of that.
And so how long after that did you perform as Alaska for the first time? It wasn't too long after that. And I picked up a flyer at Pegasus and it was like a contest, a Chi Chi La Rue contest.
The fishbowl? Yeah, the fishbowl contest. And I was like, I'm going to do that and I'm going to win that.
And you did? Well, I don't like to brag. And so I love that you knew what your name would be as soon as you encountered it, which was a weed strain, right? Yeah.
Love that. And so there was never another contender.
You were like, this is my name. No, that was it.
It was like a lightning bolt. It was like instant.
So tell me about the fishbowl performance. Yeah.
All the queens in town showed up because it was like $250 or $200. And that was like, I mean, that basically like with inflation, that's like a million dollars now.
And so we were like, you know, everyone came out. And so I was very nervous but I had had a bunch of tricks and gags planned.
In case I didn't know the song, I would still have something to do. So I like put all this stuff up my skirt and I would pull it out as the number went on.
And then the skirt would tear away and it would be a giant sign that said, I love Chi Chi La Rue. So, you know, sucking up to the host, stunts and gags, distractions.
Those are the key to performance in drag, I think. And yeah, and I pulled, because you had to choose your song out of the fishbowl.
You didn't know what you were going to do. And I pulled How Many Licks by Lil' Kim, and I happened to know every word of that.
And so we did it. So was that actually your first time performing as Alaska? Officially, yeah.
Officially. And so how did it feel? It felt great.
I was bit by the bug, and that was that. And so then you decide to move to LA.
Uh-huh. But you decide at the time

that you're not going to do drag there.

You, like, pack your wigs

and then you go through security at the airport

and then you take your wigs out

because you're like,

I'm not doing drag.

You did all your research on this.

Like, usually I have to explain all of this

on podcasts

and you know everything.

I'm so glad.

No, I got you.

Yes, I was like, I'm going to be a serious actor i studied theater arts and i'm gonna be a serious actor and i'm gonna give up all this drag shit and then i was like being a serious actor is hard and i i lacked the discipline and the skills to do it and i was like i had to like have normal looking hair and I had to take my piercings out. And like, I like I'd wear like normal clothes.
I was like, none of that appealed to me and it didn't make any sense to me. And so I was like, I can't do that.
So I didn't know what I was doing. And so I did drag for fun just to like keep my keep myself sane.
Yeah. And I ended up getting a job just from like going out in drag and looking crazy.
Yeah. And well, thank God that you did.
Yeah. What a gift.
What a gift. So at some point you're like, OK, I'm doing drag for fun.
Now I have to make money doing it. And I read that you sort of like looked around and you're like, what, how are other drag

queens making money? And so you saw somebody sell t-shirts online. So you're like, I'll sell t-shirts online.
You saw people promoting and producing shows and parties. So you're like, I'll try that.
And then also making their own music. And so, well, first of all, do you have any of those old t-shirts still? Because I want one.
I do. You know, I must.
They must be somewhere. They're like the OG.
And it was like a face, the eyes, nose, mouth on a white t-shirt and just like blue eyeshadow. And that was it.
And and then it was like we did a yellow eyeshadow edition. And like, that's it.
There are very few of those out there. But those are OG.
I don't even know if I have any. Okay, well, if you find one, let me know.
But when I was reading that, I was surprised because I figured that sort of the big moneymaker is performing. Is that right? right uh yes but the problem there is that it also takes all your money to do that so it's tell me about that so drag is like a conundrum because it it costs a lot of money like we have a song in the musical called drag is expensive because it fucking is and it so you have to ride the line of like okay when I was first starting out it was like I'm getting paid you know a hundred dollars to do this so that means I have to make sure I'm not spending more than that to get there yeah to wear the all the things that I'm required to wear to do drag.
Luckily, I wore a bunch of garbage. So that's the business savvy that we're here to espouse.
Oh, yes. No, perfect.
And so you said you were getting paid like a hundred bucks maybe. So is that normally the structure? It's like you'll get a fee and then tips.
Yeah. So how much, like, say the Blue Moon, where, you know, bar in Pittsburgh where you're a big part of the legacy there.
How much would somebody make in tips a night there? Well, the Blue Moon was special. And I've never had, like, a show structured like this.
Andy, who was the owner and the manager, believed in us and wanted the bar to not have a cover charge ever. So he gave us a chunk of $500, which we could use as we saw fit.
There were three of us, usually four of us, but sometimes three of us.

And so we would take that and then we would like hire a guest to do it. We'd each get like $100 or $125, which was amazing.
No cover charge. So all our friends could come.
They'd get drunk on four locos and we could do whatever we wanted. I've never had a show like this ever since where it was structured like that.
And I'm so grateful for that because it was such freedom creatively. We weren't worried about, oh, we've got to sell tickets.
We have to do something that grabs people and gets them to buy tickets. It's like, no, it us do a show called the bible and it's you know i'm dressed up like jesus with a laser blaster riding on my friend like a minotaur like that's what we did tips we'd get tips i don't know how much 20 4020? $40? Something like that.
Something like that? Yeah. And so all the other stuff, I mean, selling t-shirts and making music and, you know, all of those things like that.
No one was buying it. Yeah.
When I was first starting out because no one bought a shirt. No one bought a shirt.
No one bought a shirt. But I wanted to have it there.

Yeah.

To do it because I saw someone like Jackie B who is a brilliant, you know, drag artist, the queen of fucking Los Angeles.

And I was like, I want to emulate what she's doing.

Even if no one's buying it, I want to have it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so what are the what are the costs? how does it get so expensive um eyelashes hair yeah uh makeup is expensive um clothes shoes all of it is so costly and there's so many steps just to like get out the door. Yeah.
Yeah. And do you think because I was thinking about it and not every job has such startup costs like that.
Yeah. And so you really have to be willing to invest in yourself.
Yeah. And so did that make you feel differently? Do you think that if you had

a job where like you could have just jumped into it? Like, do you feel like you were more confident because you're investing? Or did you feel like I got to make this work because I'm like putting my money into it? I had to make it work because I wasn't good at anything else. Like it was like Like drag chose me and it's my destiny because every other job, like it was like drag chose me and it's my destiny because every other job like it was like it just wasn't working.
Just wasn't. Couldn't do it.
Yeah. So I had to make it work.
So but pre-drag race, it sounds like you were not making enough money from drag that you could live on. You were like working in coffee shops doing other things.

Is that right? And then

when you were in LA,

you got

a shitty apartment so that you could

save for a second audition

tape for Drag Race, right?

I mean, I guess that's how we tell the story.

I don't know. I think I was

driving my friend

Jeremy nuts and he was like studying in grad school and I was being an unhinged drag queen pothead. So I got my own place.
And it seemed like a great idea until it was like infested with roaches. And it was just like, it was like stalled.
It was like just like a dead end. I was like, I don't know if I can do this out here.
So you did your audition tape for season two. You auditioned every year until season five.
I did. And so I also read it in your memoir that you said that early on you were like, I'm going to be famous.
And when I'm famous, all my problems are going to go away. And so when.
The folly of youth. The folly of youth.
And so when you did get cast, did you think this is it? I'm going to be famous and all of my problems are going to go away. I mean, that is what you think.
Yes, that is what you think. And then it was like, then I got, you know, we wrapped filming and, you know, Sharon, who I was dating at the time, the first phone call we had was like the cat ran away, the house burned down.
Like, like, it was just like everything was a disaster. So, no, it getting on Drag Race doesn't make all your problems go away.
Shocking.

And so how have you had to think about redefining success for yourself so that you can feel like it's not tied to fame, but it's tied to maybe something that is self-worth, happiness? Yeah. I mean, that took a really long time.
Yeah. It took a really long time To value My life Outside of drag As it relates to drag race It took a very long time And That's really important I think that's important With any career.
It's like you have to have something beyond that, because if that evaporates or slows down or goes away, like that can't be your whole existence.

Yeah.

It's like the movie The Substance.

It's exactly like the movie The Substance.

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Before you got that call saying that you were on Drag Race, were you stressed about money? Yes. Oh, yeah, we were very, very poor.
Oh, yes, it was a disaster. It was like, Are we going to keep the it was like are we going to keep the lights on are we going to keep the heat on yeah and so do you think if you hadn't have gotten on drag race would you have kept doing drag yes yeah because i can't do anything else that That was it.
Yeah. So, yeah.

When I first moved to New York after college, it took me a long time to get a job. And I did the thing where I sold my car to move here and moved with one suitcase and was like, this is the total amount of money that I have in my life.
And I just watched it go down while I was trying to get a job. and when I finally got a job at iHeartRadio,

I didn't have enough money in my bank account

to pay for Subway family. go down while I was trying to get a job.
And when I finally got a job at iHeartRadio,

I didn't have enough money in my bank account to pay for subway fare. So I walked to work every morning.
Yeah. Thank you.
Do you have any stories like that where you're like, I just got to fucking make it work. I ride my bike a lot, but also when I was in LA, I was like I would ride my bike To gigs sometimes like in drag

So Ride my bike a lot. But also when I was in L.A., I was like, I would ride my bike to gigs sometimes, like in drag.
So in like, you know, 2007, if you saw a drag queen on a bicycle going down Santa Monica Boulevard, it was probably me. Can you tell me about Drag Musical? Yeah.
Let's start with where did this idea come from? How long have you have you been working on it well it's been almost eight years at this point my god and i had been making music with my friends tomas and ash and ash is an amazing songwriter and tomas is an amazing song producer so like all my music was done with them and so we had that relationship at a certain point, Tomas was like, so I'm thinking of doing a musical. Do you want to write it with us? And so I was like, sure, that'll be easy.
It was not easy. Yeah.
How hard could it be? It was very difficult, but we did it. Yeah.
You did it and people love it. And so you didn't just write it.
You also star in it. Can you tell us a little bit about what the show is about? Yes.
The initial like kernel of what it is, I like the idea of it being two rival drag houses. So it's like originally it was like this is the singing house and this is the dancing house.
But it turned into just like, we're kind of the same, but we hate each other sort of thing. Which is, you know, that's how it goes in life sometimes.
And then we wanted to have like a family element to it. So one of the drag queens has to call her brother, who she hasn't talked to in five years.
They don't get along at all. And then her brother comes into town because he can possibly help them get out of financial trouble.

He brings along his son, who's 10 years old, and who just, his father doesn't know what to do with him.

Because he's like, he wants to wear his mom's glasses and he he doesn't he isn't connecting and then he discovers drag and is like oh wait like this is kind of sickening I love this you know yeah and so there it's it's about all of those things there's a lot of like family elements to it whether it's your biological family or your chosen family. Yeah.
And yeah. What would seeing something like that have meant to you when you were 10? I can't imagine.
I don't know. I think that it would be great, probably, because it's like when you have shame as a young person, which there was a lot regarding being feminine or dressing in flamboyant clothes or whatever.
When those things are completely not allowed, then it becomes like shame. And then you have to like spend a lot of time unlearning that and reintegrating that into your self and so I guess there would have just been like less time having to unlearn stuff yeah yeah well one of the parts of your memoir that really made me feel for little Alaska was was when your mom was like don't play like a girl yeah yeah that's really hard that's really hard and then you're also it struck me that you're also doing this show and then the election happens so do you feel like the stakes are higher now somehow or do you try to keep it in its own creative bubble well and just a side note, my mom is now the biggest fan of Alaska, of me, my biggest supporter.
Yes. She told me don't play like a girl because she was trying to protect her child.
You know what I mean? Yes. That's how it was.
Yes. But yeah, I mean, the fact that like children being in proximity to drag is now like a hot button political issue.

We started this eight years ago.

That was not even on the table. Yeah.
So it's a little preposterous that our musical is literally about that. Yeah.
But it's also like wonderful. I mean, when it's our turn on the chopping block, which it is sometimes with politics, we know what to do.
This isn't a new story. Yeah.
And we know how to fight back and we know how to organize and we know how to lean on each other. And so that's what we're going to do.
And the musical is part of that. I was reading the comments of some of the posts on the drag, the musical Instagram account, and just so many people being like, hi from Minnesota.
Like I took my kids when we were visiting New York. It meant so much to them.
And it's amazing. It must feel so good to hear stories like that and see how it's resonating.
Because it is such a light right now. And it's like, that's exactly what we need.
Yeah. And people come back so many times.
There's a couple who has seen the show 16 times. As of today.
Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
So, will you write another musical? Oh, God. When? Yes.
I mean, maybe. I don't know.
Yes. Yes.
Yeah. Why not? I love it.
Right here, right now. Another musical.
Will there be a drag, the musical, the movie? That'd be great. I would love that.
I would love that, too. Yeah.
Because, again, it's like more people need to see it. Yeah.

Before I let you go, I would love to play a game with you.

Oh, okay.

It's Never Have I Ever, but money themed.

Okay.

And we're not drinking.

So we'll just put our hands up.

Okay.

And so if you have done something, you put a finger down.

Oh, okay.

And if you haven't, you keep it up.

Okay.

So Never Have I Ever split the check on a first date. If you have done it, put your finger down.
I have done it. I don't think I've done that.
You don't think? I don't know. Again, brain full of holes.
But no, I was always dating older guys so they would buy stuff for me me never have i ever maxed out a credit card i don't think i've done that oh i have wait i have okay yeah never have i ever won a cash prize i have you've done that i have so you've been a finger down okay never have i ever invested in the stock market. I haven't.
You haven't? We got to get you in there. Okay.
We're going to make you rich. Okay, great.
Never have I ever given a big gift to a friend or family member. I have done that.
Yeah. Okay, put that finger down.
Never have I ever had credit card debt. I feel like I never got credit cards.
I've had debt before, but not credit card debt. Yeah.
What kind of debt have you had? Like student loans.

Yeah. Yeah.
I don't think I've had credit card debt either. Yeah.
Never have I ever played the

lottery. I have.
I mean, I think I have. I think I got like, do scratchers count? Scratchers

absolutely count. Okay, great.
So I have. Okay, perfect.
Never have I ever been fired from a job. I haven't.
I have. What's that story? Yeah, I went to Burning Man.
And I was supposed to come back after three days. And I was like, I'm not leaving.
So I stayed. And so they fired my ass because I was supposed to be back at work.
You were like, fair enough. Oh, what an idiot.
I mean, was it worth it? Yes. Okay, good.
All right. We end all of our episodes by asking our guests for a money tip that listeners can take straight to the bank.
And so it can be anything about something, a lesson that you've learned, something that you use to save, negotiate, make money, shop, anything. Well, and I want to address this to drag queens or really anyone.
I think it's okay to re-wear stuff all the time. I think it's great to re-wear costumes or dresses.
Because I think there's too many clothes in the world, so it's good for the environment. But it also saves you money.
And if you spend a lot of money on a garment, you should wear it all the time.

Yeah.

So don't be afraid to re-wear stuff.

It's like when Tiffany Haddish re-wore a dress that she wore to an awards show

when she was hosting SNL.

And she was like, I need to get my money's worth.

Please, right?

Yeah.

Like, normalize that.

Because why not?

I think that we should culturally do that.

I love that.

And it saves money.

And it saves money.

Good for the environment. I'm sold.
Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin.
Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavoie. Our researcher is Emily Holmes.
Do you need some money rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your money questions, moneyrehab at moneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one-on-one intervention with me and follow us on Instagram at money news and TikTok at money news network

for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you.
No, seriously. Thank you.
Thank you for

listening and for investing in yourself, which is Thank you.