Episode 660: Herbert Mullin: The Killer Hippie (Part 1)

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Hey, weirdos.

I'm Ash.

And I'm Elena.

And this right here that you're listening to in your car, in your house.

What'd you say?

At this moment.

At this moment is morbid. I thought you said at a sporting event.
At a sporting event. I said, why is somebody listening to Morbid at a sporting event? You don't know.
Speaking of sporting events, Elena took me to my first Celtics game. Yay! I had so much fun.
It is. I love the Celtics.
I had a real go sports moment.

Yeah, you did.

I jumped out of my chair.

You were jumping up

and yelling about fouls

by the end of it.

You were bullshit.

Bullshit.

I was so excited for you.

I was like,

look at her.

She's into it.

Yeah, it was fun.

I liked it.

It's true.

I used to like going,

weirdly,

I never went to the basketball games

in high school

because I didn't give a shit,

but in middle school,

I loved it.

That's amazing.

In middle school, I loved it. I fucked so hard it so hard I felt heavy with it hell yeah yeah it's fun the Celtics are awesome um and I won't hear anything to the contrary about that never I mean just based off stats alone yeah listen to me look at that number two look at those stats Oklahoma go fuck yourself go fuck yourselves.
Go fuck yourselves. Look at me, talking trash.

Talking trash about sports.

It's fun.

Yeah.

It's fun.

Yeah.

When you get to hear how gnarly Bostonians are.

Oh, my God.

The crowd at a Celtics game.

The crowd at this one in particular, honey.

It went off.

It went hard.

It did go hard. It went hard on the paint head.

Yeah, it's a lot of fun.

I know.

I love it. The girls got to do a little thing separately during a couple of games um they got we like entered them into a thing where they got to high five the players oh my god that's so cute and they fucking loved it it's the cutest thing in the entire world can you enter me into that yeah so you can high five i want to high five the players is it for children only is it for new sports fans It's for children.
I could just crouch. Just crouch down.
Like, good luck, guys.

Yay! have the players is it for children only is it for new sports fans i could i could just crouch just crouch down like good luck guys yay like what the fuck is that woman doing you're like go sports what a visual that paints i am visualizing it right now i just got banned from every you just got put on a of the season. You just got put on a list.

They were like, no.

No, we can't have that happen.

No, I don't want to do that.

But I do want to go back.

And I love it.

My kids call Jason Tatum.

Jadum Tatum.

It was so hard to not yell that out during the game.

I know.

Every time I see him, I want to be like, Jadum Tatum.

But I'm like, your name is Jason.

Sorry.

But yeah, go Celtics.

And yeah, I don't think is there any other bit nasty really I don't know ghost posted our episode yesterday unexpectedly the actual ghost account and I died a thousand deaths so here I am a thousand deaths less than i was yesterday you only have how many more lives i have no idea where i started you're bigger than a cat i am it's so funny the different places that we were about to go with that you were like what else do we have and you went into ghost and i was about to say ostara's coming up so there's that we are different people equally as important it is so Happy Astara. Go paint some eggs.
Yeah. Put some rabbits out.
Yeah. Fake ones, duh.
Fake ones. Don't just put your rabbits out.
Don't put real rabbits, guys. People just walk outside and put their rabbits out.
I don't know. You don't know? I don't know your fucking life.
We really don't. And you know whose life I really don't know? I can confirm who's.
Herbert Mullins. Okay.
His life is lawless. Here's the thing.
I genuinely don't know his life. I can recognize the name.
I genuinely don't. I genuinely don't know his life.
I know the name. And I know that I've heard probably this case before, but I cannot remember the details.
I cannot. It's a wild one.
Yeah. So it makes sense that you genuinely don't know his life, but that you've heard the name.
Yeah. Because he's definitely up there.
He's very brutal. He's very prolific in his numbers.
And he was committing crimes at the same time as Edmund Kemper. Oh.
They got a little conflated. It's one of those things where it's like everyone really knows Edmund Kemper's name for his crimes.
But I think this one got a little pushed to the side, which is when you hear this story, you're going to be like, I'm sorry, what? I almost wonder, too, if you mentioned him when we did Ed Kemper. I think I did mention him.
Yeah. Because I think there was some like confusion

with victims and like what was

going on. They were committing their crimes

at the same time period in the

same area. Okay.
So there was

a lot of confusion. Damn.
Over what the fuck was

going on. He was like one of our earliest episodes.
I think he's like number

three. Yeah he's very early and

Herbert Mullen though is called the

killer hippie which is

quite a moniker. That's such a

bummer. Yeah and he was like you're not a

hippie if you're a murderer. And he's a

Thank you. Um, Herbert Mullen though is called the killer hippie, which is quite a moniker.

That's such a bummer.

Yeah.

And he was like, you're not a hippie if you're a murderer.

And he's a, he's a gnarly guy.

Oh no.

Uh, but he's also, um, very, very mentally ill.

Oh.

Uh, there's a lot happening in this.

Okay.

Um, very scary stuff.

And it was exacerbated as we'll see by like psychedelic drugs and stuff., shit. So that's when you're already mentally ill, taking psychedelic drugs can potentially be harmful.
Yeah, just watch Yellow Jackets. There you go.
You should because it's really good. I'm in season two.
For once, I've turned Elena on to your show and Mikey as well. Yeah.
And I hold the power because I'm caught up and they're not. It's true.
But we're coming up. We're coming up to being caught up.
Almost. We're getting there.
So in the minds of many, the 1960s was definitely a decade that, like you, you know, you love a hippie. I do.
The 60s was a time that was dominated by hippie culture. Free love, baby.
You really think. Yeah, exactly.
Free love. And there was a lot of like, you know, trying attempts to advance progressive ideas.
And like, you know, this new generation of young people was trying to make shit happen. There's like a lot when you go back into the 60s, a lot of shit was happening.
It's interesting. There's a lot of cultural changes happening.
You know, it's a very interesting decade for sure. But while it is true that the heyday of the baby boomers was one of considerable social and cultural change, it's also an era where some of the darkest parts of humanity became impossible for a lot of Americans to ignore.
Yeah. Like it really was the time.
Beginning in the mid-60s, violent crime and homicide rates were spiking in the U.S. And they were honestly reaching like kind of shocking heights at this point.
Because remember, this is when suddenly it became like, oh, maybe we shouldn't hitchhike as much as we are kind of thing. And it really reached shocking heights in the 80s before starting like a little bit of a downward trend in the 90s.
I miss the 90s. I long for the 90s.

The number of violent crimes and murders committed varied by city and state.

But you were struggling with the problem of violence more than, sorry, California.

Yeah, it happens.

It was rough out there.

Beginning in the 60s, California and the Bay Area, more specifically, became a real mecca for hippies and other young people that were drawn to the culture that rejected conservative standards and morals in favor of more permissive behaviors. Unfortunately, it wasn't long before the state, who was, you know, which was once synonymous with free love, became known for producing some of the nation's most notorious serial killers.
beginning in the mid-60s, a man who would eventually call himself the Zodiac started out on a series of murders that would keep the region locked in a grip of terror for nearly a decade. And then they just simply vanished.
As we know, to this day, we are the year of our Lord, 2025, and we still have no fucking clue who the Zodiac Killer is. A few years later, in 1968, you might know this name too, Charles Manson and his disciples committed a series of crimes that culminated in a horrific mass murder, effectively ending the era of free love and bringing in, kind of ushering in an era of fear, paranoia, and suspicion.
To the south, in the LA area, Juan Corona went on a four-month killing spree that claimed the lives of 25 men. Oh, wow.
The same time that that was happening, another serial killer who we just recently covered, Rodney Alcala, the dating game killer, committed the first of what would be many, many brutal murders.

And the so-called Southern California strangler, Randy Kraft, who we have not covered, set out on a rampage that claimed the lives of at least 16 people. Wow.
And this was all in like a very short period of time. It was just mayhem.
Over the course of the 70s, the list of LA area serial killers would grow to include some of the most notorious in the nation's history. But maybe the most shocking and perplexing murders of the era were taking place between the state's two iconic cities in a largely suburban area, Santa Cruz County.
Santa Cruz is also, I think, is supposed to be the influence of Santa Carla in Lost Boys. Yeah, it definitely is.
Being like the murder capital of the world. That's Santa Cruz.
Yeah. So located about 60 miles outside of San Francisco, Santa Cruz has long served as a more suburban commuter city for those working in but not wanting to live in San Francisco.
In 1970, it was home to a wide range of people, from unemployed college students to the highest paid surgeons, essentially, like everything in between. And within a few years, unlike nearby San Francisco, Santa Cruz was becoming very quiet, very peaceful.
It was like a very nice place to live.

But then within a few more years, it feels like it kind of just happened in like a slow burn at the other end of the spectrum. It became known to many in California and the United States as the murder capital of the world.
Yep. Or Santa Carla.
now for the most part residents of santa cruz thought of crime as something that happened you know elsewhere in places like san francisco this is before it became known what it was known as um you know they were thinking san francisco is where that happens you know where the zodiac was killing young couples and terrorizing residents with you know threatening letters to the press and cryptics and all that. But on the night of October 1970, murder came right to Santa Cruz when Dr.
Victor Oda, his wife, and their two young sons and the doctor's secretary were found murdered in the family's swimming pool and their house was set ablaze. Oh my god.
On the windshield of Oda's car was a typewritten letter threatening violence again quote against quote persons who misuse the natural environment and it was signed with several hand-drawn tarot symbols. What? Tarot symbols? Yep.
Okay that is not at all where I thought we were going. No and about a week after that Santa Cruz police arrested 24-year-old John Lindley Frazier, a local man known for his very erratic behavior and a passion for environmental causes and his obsession with the Bible.
And it would turn out that the murder of the Ota family was just the beginning. In the three years that followed, a number of young women from the Santa Cruz area went missing, and their bodies were discovered months or years later, showing signs of extreme violence.
The murder of these young women would eventually be a tribute to Edmund Kemper. We know Edmund Kemper if you listened to the episode, but he was a local man who was, you know, one of the things that was very interesting about him is that he was very friendly with the local police.

Yeah.

Hung out with them at the bars, wanted to be a police officer. But he was literally too big to be a police officer.
Yeah, his stature is insane. But he also had a history of violent antisocial behavior that eventually culminated in a horrific series of murders.
Now, in the cases of, you know, Fraser and Kemper, each had a particular victim type that, upon consideration, made sense given their pathology, when you could attribute it to that. This hardly made residents of Santa Cruz feel safer, but it did kind of suggest that some people were safer than others.
Yeah, that makes sense. Which often happens with these things.
And it gave the illusion that as long as residents avoided certain behaviors or activities, they could maybe avoid danger. It reminds you of the Son of Sam case where girls were going out and dying their hair.
Yes. Like if you see any kind of pattern happening, you try to get away from it.
Yeah. Now, unfortunately, while Fraser was killing those he believed to be polluters and harming the environment and Kemperper was killing young women, there was another killer, or, you know, perhaps killers at work in the Santa Cruz area.
And unlike the victims of Fraser and Kemper, these victims seem to be completely random. Like, chosen completely, just like luck of the draw.
Although it would take time for investigators to realize they were dealing with more than one killer because there were several going on at once, by early 1973, at least 13 basically unrelated murders committed in Santa Cruz in the preceding year would be now attributed to 26-year-old Herbert Mullen. 26 years old.
Yeah, 26 years old. That is so young.
Right? Yes. Isn't that crazy? And that's at least 13 were attributed to him that they thought were totally unrelated because there was no pattern here.
Right. It was just mayhem.
Just at whim. So let's talk about Herbert Mullen a little bit.
Alrighty. Born in Salinas, California on April 14th, 1947, his early life was by most accounts fairly ordinary and unremarkable.
The most remarkable thing about his birth was that it occurred exactly 41 years to the day after the San Francisco earthquake of 1906. Seems kind of like random to mention that, and you're like, what? Cool.
But it comes into play in a very big way in his behavior later. So hold on to that little nugget.
Okay. At home, the Mullen family seemed to be the picture-perfect conservative American family.
The dad, Martin, was a veteran of World War II. He was stern.
He was strict. Definitely met the definition of, you know, mid-century American masculinity.
Oh, good. Yeah.
Awesome. According to author Ryan Green, quote, Martin did show his son affection where he could.
Okay. He shared stories with him about his experiences in the war, taught him how to fire a gun, and even engaged in playful boxing matches with the young boy in the kitchen while their dinner was being cooked.
So he sounded like he was like a pretty all right dad. Yeah.
So Martin Mullen was definitely the head of the household because that's the way it was back then. But Herbert's mother, Jean, was responsible for much of the children's education and their spirituality.
Okay. Jean Mullen was a devout Catholic and she took her faith very seriously.
And she literally, like she was one of those that I don't want to hear you questioning anything about my beliefs. Yikes.
Like don't question it, believe it, take what I say as the word and that's it. Whether you have questions or not, I want to hear it.
That's just not the way to teach anybody anything.

Yeah, that's not great.

You have to let, you have to, because if people have questions about something, you should be able to answer them.

Yep.

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Now, according to Green, she portrayed the outside world as a dangerous and unhappy place where anything could happen. And she was insistent upon bringing the children to church every Sunday.
Okay. Which that, you're like, you know what? She's trying to keep them safe.
She's being for real. Yeah.
And she believes in Catholicism, so she's bringing the kids to church every Sunday. Yeah.
Like, okay. But you don't need to teach, like, your little tiny kids how unsafe and unhappy the world is.
That's the thing. You got to let them have a little bit of – Imagination.
Rose-colored glasses on for a little while. Right.
So young Herbert followed his parents' rules, but he was also pretty smart. Yeah.
Like he was a very smart child. That tends to happen.
Yeah. And he also asked a lot of challenging questions because as a smart kid, you ask a lot of questions about the world around you because you want to understand more.
And he was really questioning when it came to religion. The results of this challenging personality was almost always punishment from his mother who deemed her son to be blasphemous for asking questions.
I don't understand what's blasphemous about that, especially if he's trying to understand. It's not that he's questioning it like to be a dick.
He's just like, I'm trying to get this. He's just trying to understand it better.
Like you should have the answers for him. Right.
And help him understand. According to Green, this is where Mullen's kind of like disordered and paranoid and conspiratorial thinking came from.
I mean, yeah. is her, because he basically says he had discovered the truth about the world and he was being punished for it.
Like, so him questioning things that he's seeing, he's being punished for that. So of course he's going to sit there and be like, what are you all hiding? And of course, yeah, that's going to create paranoia.
Of course. Now, in truth, it's pretty unclear when he started showing signs of mental illness or paranoia.
Like, nobody knows exactly when it started. But it does appear as though his personality definitely started changing when he entered adolescence, which is pretty common.
Yeah. Things really come out at that time.
Mm-hmm. But particularly when it came to his relationship with his parents.
So Herb started to believe his parents were sabotaging his attempts at making friends. He even believed so far that his parents were going door to door in the neighborhood asking people to ignore him.
Oh, that's really sad. Yeah.
But, and this is wild, things were very different at school. Because he was very well liked by his peers.
And he was regarded as a generally good student by his teachers. So he was very well liked by his peers and he was regarded as a generally good student as by his teachers so he was super successful at school he was even successful in after school sports and like so he was good at academics and sports yeah and he became one of the school's top athletes wow so he's killing it at school and doing really well in sports his peers like him and then he goes home and he's being treated like an asshole for asking questions.
And he doesn't think anybody likes him. Yeah.
Even though he's like having positive experiences. And I don't know if it's like he didn't think anybody liked him in the neighborhood or like people like, you know what I mean? Like, but then he goes to school and gets like a little more.
Because I'm not really sure. That's interesting.
But as he entered his teen years, his conservative worldview that he'd kind of been, had been forced upon him by his parents started to fade a little bit. And it was giving way to more liberal and progressive perspectives of his friends.
Like, you know, he was becoming a hippie in the sixties, you know, that it was one of those. And he attended san lorenzo valley high school in san francisco um he had definitely always been a little suspicious of his parents ideologies like as evidenced by him constantly challenging them and questioning them and this new ideology that he was starting to adopt was only leading to more fights at home i'm sure and turn, this further fueled his belief that even his parents disliked him.
But his success at school did, you know, make these stressors at home a little easier to cope with because he was starting to see like, I am getting positive stuff at school. So like, I can't be all bad.
And he can kind of escape at school. Yeah.
And in fact, by the time he was 16 years old, he was voted most likely to succeed in school. Whoa.
Yeah. That's chilling.
Isn't that wild? Yes. Now, any pride that he had in his academic and social performance at school was cut short in 1965.
And this is when his best friend, Dean Richardson, died unexpectedly. Oh, that's awful.
He was only a teenager. Yeah.
During the last couple of years in high school, they had become nearly inseparable and they had even been accepted to the same college. Then in early September, Dean, his best friend there, was riding his motorcycle with his sister on the back when he was cut off by a driver who crashed into a tree.
The driver of the car and his girlfriend were killed instantly and Dean was transported to the hospital but ended up dying of his injuries on September 9th. That's really sad.
Yeah, and Dean's sister, Mardine, would be the only one that survived that whole crash. Wow.
Which is lucky for her being on the back of that bike. Yeah, that's not something that you would expect.
No. Now, until Dean's death, Herbert had only demonstrated, you know, some quirky tendencies and, you know, occasionally a challenge, what was seen as a challenging personality.
Yeah. Nothing that would really indicate any kind of chronic mental health issue or anything like that.
But after Dean died, his grief and inability to manage his emotions became very apparent. According to Green, almost overnight, his bedroom was converted into a vast shrine for his dead friend.
So to me it sounds like he was just not given the tools to process this and was not given like an open line of communication to process it. Well it's probably hard too because he's questioning his religious beliefs.
That's the thing like his spirituality. His friend dies and he's probably just wondering like probably just wondering, like, where's my friend? Where do I, yeah, where do I put this grief? Are they somewhere else? Are they just gone? That's hard.
Yeah. Especially at any age, but especially at such a young age.
Yeah. Well, and his inability to manage his grief and process it and just to, like, move forward with his life was taking a toll on his relationships with friends and even his girlfriend at the time.
He had a girlfriend at the time and she apparently, quote, complained about his obsessive behavior over some dead boy. That's like his best friend.
So rather than confront his ongoing difficulty in accepting Dean's death, Herbert explained to his girlfriend that he was, quote, okay it doesn't work like that in his mind was the only possible explanation for his intense emotional reaction because he just wasn't so sad taught differently and you also wonder if that was like projected at home well that's i wonder if that was part of some of the uh things he would challenge or question and wasn't getting answers for and was kind of being taught that. And because he made his bedroom like a shrine, who knows how his parents felt about that.
Yeah. I think there was a lot of probably confusing things being taught to him.
So he was just like, oh, well, that's what's happening. Right.
Like, which is wild. Because you can love somebody but not be in love with them.
Exactly. Like he was clearly clearly confused about his feelings for the end.
Exactly. And he wasn't getting somebody to sit him down and say, like, it's okay.
Like, you loved him and that doesn't mean you were in love with him. Right.
Unless, you know. And if you are, great.
Feel your feelings, you know. But in reality, he was a teenage boy who was forced to confront the existential crisis of death in a particularly cruel and unexpected way.
Like, this came out of nowhere. And he was lacking the emotional tools or support that he needed to manage this.
So it's like, of course he's going to come to some, like, random conclusions because of it. And so his emotions just got away from him, basically.
And within a few weeks after the funeral, he started seeking a religious or spiritual path to understand death.

So that really was part of the issue, was like, I just don't understand this. That makes sense.
Unfortunately, and much to his mother's disappointment, he didn't turn to Catholicism. Instead, he turned to Eastern religions and New Age spiritual practices that were growing in popularity with young people at the time.
Not surprisingly, the idea of reincarnation was particularly appealing to him. Okay.

Because of, you know, the recent loss. Yeah.

In the mid-19th century, with young people at the time. Not surprisingly, the idea of reincarnation was particularly appealing to him

because of, you know, the recent loss.

Yeah.

In the mid-1960s, and honestly, like, pretty much today too,

Western audiences had minimal insight

into non-Western religions

and tended to understand them

through the lens of Christianity.

The result was essentially a spiritual practice

that looked decidedly foreign and mystical, was otherwise fairly christian in bad practice um also the lack of insight or any kind of like real information into these practices typically meant that white practitioners of these took it upon themselves to just kind of like fill in the gaps with their own ideas and beliefs whitewash it. Yeah.
So for Herb, the lack of available information simply meant that he needed to go to Asia to learn more about the practices that he had become so taken with. Wow.
Okay. Yeah.
Which like at this point, you're like, okay, go to Asia. Yeah.
Learn about that. Like whatever makes you feel good.
But his parents were not thrilled about his interest in Eastern religions and refused to help him travel there or learn any more about it. That's dumb.
Instead, his father encouraged him to join the military. That will not help.
Because he was arguing, well, you could travel and learn more about the real world. But to Herbert, a hippie with an interest in progressive ideologies, the idea of joining the military during the ramp up of an immoral foreign war was pretty incomprehensible.
And especially somebody already struggling with their emotional stability. Yeah.
That's not a great time to join the military. Definitely not.
Instead, he turned to drugs and started experimenting heavily with LSD and other hallucinogens just to try to expand his mind, man. Also not a great time to do psychedelic drugs.
Also not a great time. Yeah.
I don't think that was the answer that we were looking for here. No.
Now, under the best of circumstances, hallucinogenic drugs are unpredictable and can have lasting, very bad consequences. For Herbert Mullen, a person who'd been showing signs of an early-onset psychotic disorder, they almost certainly hastened his downward spiral into complete instability.
In the years that followed Dean's death, his behavior became increasingly bizarre and inappropriate, all while his friends and former classmates put more and more distance between themselves and Herbert. In one instance, following his breakup with his high school girlfriend, he approached his older sister to ask for sex.
Whoa. Yeah.
That. So there's happened so fast.
Yeah, that really, it really popped off right there. So what? Herbert's sister told their mother about what had just been asked of her.
And Jean Mullen refused to believe that such a thing could be true and decided her daughter was being spiteful and trying to get Herbert in trouble. That's not the stance you should take on that matter.
That's fucked up in a way I't even describe gene mullen it's fucked up that that happened to her and that yeah and then her mother was like mom was like you just want to get herbert you're being spiteful it's like damn you really assume the worst in people girl well and what's worse is in the months after that the scene repeated itself several times oh no herb would brazenly proposition his older sister for sex. And she would inform her parents each time.
Like it's still happening. And Jean and Martin refused to believe their daughter.
Why would she keep saying this? Right. Why would she ever say that? Nevermind continue to.
And after so long of this, she was like, I can't handle this anymore. i can't be in this house anymore so she convinced

her boyfriend to marry her so she could move out with him and not piss off her parents you know the religious thing of like you can't move out unless you're getting married oh my god so she convinced her her boyfriend please marry me so i can get out of here gotta get out of here that is so awful now between his inappropriate sexual behavior the increasingly bizarre thought patterns and his growing obsession with reincarnation,

one would assume it would have occurred to either one of his parents that like something was wrong here like he's not entirely mentally sound right now but at no point did either parent up till this point attempt to get help for their son or even speak to him about his mental health what What the fuck? Despite him obviously, like, devolving here. Tripping balls and losing his mind and sexually assaulting his sister.
And in fact, it took until 1969, after four years of his obvious decline, that anyone would do anything to intervene. Wow.
They just ignored him before that. One afternoon, in anticipation of Herbert's older sister and her new husband coming back for dinner to the house,

Gene Mullen asked him to help clean up the house before anyone arrived.

And he didn't mind this.

Like, he always liked doing that stuff.

He said he found it calming, like cleaning.

A little good time.

You know, and not a lot of things were calming him at this point.

So he was fine.

He did his job.

He was happy to do it.

Thank you. like cleaning.
I love a good time. You know, and not a lot, not a lot of things were calming him at this point.
So he was fine. He did his job.
He was happy to do it. And when his sister and her husband arrived a few hours later, at first he was totally fine, like very docile, very, you know, totally normal.
But then his demeanor totally switched. Because again, he was very polite and greeting everyone as they entered the house.
then all of a sudden martin noticed that while herbert was acting normally with everyone else it appeared that he was perfectly mirroring his brother-in-law's behavior when they interacted oh that's so fucking creepy isn't that like beyond that's chilling yes oh what the fuck later and as his sister first of all his was probably losing her mind. And then the brother-in-law there is probably like, what the fuck? What is going on? Yeah.
And it's later Martin Mullen would describe his behavior not as malicious or mocking, but as compulsive. And he said, quote, almost supernatural to observe.
What? Now, Herbert mimicked his brother-in-law's every move in mannerism, no matter how small, with almost no delay. Like he could anticipate them before it happened.
What? And over the course of the dinner, everyone at the table was picking up on this, but it was his mother's reaction that seemed to snap him out of it. Because unlike everyone else at the dinner table who reacted to the display, like, just kind of like, nervously.
Like they like uneasy like chuckling kind of like okay like what you doing uh yeah if they if they even acknowledged it at all because some of them were just not gonna even bring it up yeah gene mullen went into a near hysterical panic and said her son was possessed girl babe he's mentally ill and he needs help sounds like she's also mentally yeah now the next day gene contacted the family doctor and explained the symptoms that she had seen the night before she said i think he's possessed by the devil yeah and what kills me is like she calls the next day and talks about the what had happened at the dinner table the night before and then she starts talking about like, yeah, actually, you know, this has been happening since his final year of high school. And like after his best friend died, it really got bad.
And it's like,

why are you just telling the dog? So you have noticed. Yeah.
Like it's like, so you're not in

this blind blur haze of like not seeing it. You've seen it.
You just didn't want to acknowledge it.

That generation loved to ignore things. Oh, they did.
The generation of ignoring. Hey, weirdos.
I'm Mike Corey. And like you, I'm drawn to true crime, creepy history, and all things spooky.
If you particularly enjoyed Ash and Elena's coverage of the USS Indianapolis, where 900 sailors battled rough seas, sharks, dehydration, and madness in the open ocean, you need to check out my podcast, Against the Odds. We dive deep into this survival story across four full episodes, revealing details you haven't heard yet.
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Start your free trial in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify today. You know those creepy stories that give you goosebumps? The ones that make you really question what's real? Well, what if I told you that some of the strangest, darkest, and most mysterious stories are not found in haunted houses or abandoned forests, but instead in hospital rooms and doctor's offices? Hi, I'm Mr.
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And each week on my podcast, you can expect to hear stories about bizarre illnesses no one can explain, miraculous recoveries that shouldn't have happened. And cases so baffling, they stumped

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early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. The doctor agreed that this behavior was definitely strange.
And he was like, you know what, there's definitely a diagnosis here. But he said he couldn't be until herbert was admitted to a psychiatric hospital for observation and evaluation okay now to gene the doctor's suggestion was actually which i was surprised by it was a comfort to her because she was like you know what a solution to the problem he's going to agree to the evaluation we'll get him diagnosed and get him medicated okay like every which i was like okay yeah yeah okay you should.
Okay, Gene. You should have done this a little before this, but okay.
Martin Mullen, on the other hand, was a much harder sell on the idea of having his son brought to a hospital for somebody who is mentally ill. How he saw it.
Yeah. In a relatively more conservative era, such treatments were heavily stigmatized.
And those who were diagnosed with a mental illness were often treated as completely dysfunctional by society. And we still see that.
Yeah. For that matter, Martin wasn't even convinced that his son was mentally ill.
He definitely is. Which is like, babe, if he's copying your every fucking move of your son-in-law at the dinner table, something's up.
Well, see it in his response later when he says that um the mirroring almost looks supernatural yeah that's a very religious way of looking at it where it's i think he was possessed and not he wasn't he is suffering from a mental illness and needs a lot of help right um and the thing is if martin didn't believe that herbert was mentally ill they were herbert did not believe he. Right.
Because if his father is saying he's not, he's not. And his mom's just hysterical.
Exactly. And in fact, as far as Herbert could tell, he was the one person in the house with the greatest clarity, while everyone else seemed to be the ones with the psychiatric issues.
Oh, that's so scary. In the few years following his graduation from high school, his paranoia seemed to have kind of faded for a little while, especially when he was doing well and had other stuff to focus on.
He needed something to focus on. The talk of hospitalization, which was invariably, you know, heated and intense, brought the suspicion and paranoia back with full force.
This was not, whenever this got brought up,

it just made him more and more questioning everything around him.

Yeah, that makes sense.

He quickly surmised that his parents weren't interested in his mental health and well-being,

and instead they were conspiring with his doctor to have him committed and removed from their home.

That's how he viewed it.

Now, despite his suspicions, he did eventually consent to seeing a psychiatrist.

Basically, he was doing it just to prove to his mother that he wasn't mentally ill, so she would leave him alone. After all, he believed he was the more enlightened one and everyone else around him was just bonkers.
And as soon as the doctor saw that, you know, she was going to put Jean's mind at ease and we were going to put this all behind us and everybody will be fine. But of course, things did not work out that way.
Almost immediately, the staff at Mendocino State Hospital recognized that his behavior and disordered thinking were symptoms of schizophrenia. I was wondering.
And he was committed for observation. What followed was several years of very frustrating treatment.
Doctors were never certain whether Herbert was trustworthy,

like when he was reporting things, or whether his paranoid personality was causing him to provide inaccurate information. It was very difficult, especially at that time.
It was difficult for them to like weed through what he was reporting. You know what I mean? Like it, they do become, these kinds of patients can become an unreliable, um, narrator of what's going on, especially back then when it was very like, there's a limited understanding.
Yeah. Like it was unknown, like the ins and outs and deep things about this particular.
Yes. That makes sense.
Now the extent of Herb's treatment during this period is not super clear. Uh, but between 1969 and 1972, he was committed to five different hospitals.
Each time he would be discharged once doctors determined he was no danger to himself or others. Damn, that's a lot of hospitalizations.
A lot of hospitals. And while we may not know exactly what transpired during all of these periods of hospitalization, what is known is that while he was hospitalized at Mendocino State Hospital, he first reported his concerns and paranoia around earthquakes.
That's when it first came out. During the first hospitalization, he casually mentioned his certainty that there would be another earthquake in California in the near future.
At the time, hospital staff were like, okay, whatever. And like, you know, we're not going to pay attention to this.
But years later, many would wish that they had. Now, during, and we'll get back to that, don't worry.
During his period of repeated hospitalizations, Herbert Mullen was mostly compliant, and he was pretty honest during most of those, but he also loathed being confined and being accountable in any way, shape, or form to authority. And the longer he was hospitalized, the more defiant he became.
He started compliant, became defiant. And the more experience he gained in the hospital system, the more he learned about what he needed to say in order to convince the psychiatrist that he was no longer a danger to anyone.

Yep.

This meant that while he continued to describe symptoms of schizophrenia, he left out descriptions of command hallucinations.

Oh.

Particularly any that might result in a long hospital stay.

That's really scary. Now, after being discharged in the later spring of 1972, he went to San Francisco and tried to join an art collective there, but his behavior made the others uncomfortable and he was asked to leave.
So he went back home to his parents' house in Felton and everyone, you know, behaved as though nothing had ever happened to disrupt the family. That's such a good way of like coping with things.
Just pretend they never happened. Totally.
Just sweep that under the rug. Yeah.
It always works. We don't need to talk through it.
It's cool. Yeah.
Quietly, however, Herbert once again became fixated on mysticism and the concepts of reincarnation and sacrifice. I hate that.
Yeah. Reincarnation, great.
Sacrifice, not great. So what he believed was the war in Vietnam had resulted in so much death and destruction that he believed the gods had been appeased by that sacrifice.
Oh, no. Thereby, that's how they had avoided any major natural disasters.
Oh, wow. That that kind of violence and destruction was stopping the natural disasters from happening again.
That is some disordered thinking right there. But by late 1972, the war was showing signs of slowing, as the American public, you know, grew weary of a losing battle.
To Herbert, the end of the war meant the end of voluntary sacrifice, and he became certain that unless more sacrifices were made, an earthquake would wipe California off the map completely. Oh my God.
So you can see how he got there. Oh my God.
Now it wasn't just fears that led Herbert to believe California was in danger of mass destruction. The voices in his head had for some time been telling him that.
Yeah. From a very early age, Herbert was struck by the

fact that he had been born exactly 41 years after the San Francisco earthquake of 1906, which was a natural disaster that destroyed nearly all of San Francisco and killed thousands of people. It was a horrible, horrible disaster.
Over time, that fascination of him being born at that like you know you know, 41 years after to the day, it became warped and worked into Herbert's delusion so that he came to believe that it was his responsibility to prevent earthquakes. Like, it all fell on him because of when he was born.
I was like, dude, what significance would 41 have? And he believed in order to do this, he had to make sacrifices. Oh, I hate this.
Yeah. I never, yeah, I've never heard this case before.
Like, I know I've heard the name, but now I know I have never heard this case. Now, his killing spree was largely driven by, you know, delusions.
Yeah, mental illness. But that didn't mean he didn't want at least some recognition for the quote-unquote project he was planning to undertake.

Not a project.

Yeah.

However, Herb knew if he told his parents or doctors about his thoughts and hallucinations, they would send him back to the hospital and he wouldn't be able to fulfill his mission.

Which to me, like, I have to wonder if that shows some sense of he knows what he's doing is wrong and that he will be sent back to the hospital for it.

I feel like it's so hard I don't know enough about it because I think it's like he knows what he's doing is wrong by society's standards but he doesn't hold himself to those standards yeah because he's here for a higher purpose there you go so that that's the thing that's why this is an interesting one. So he didn't want to tell anybody about it.
And instead, he started sending rambling letters to anonymous recipients around California, making vague allusions to what he planned to do, and then would sign each letter, quote, a human sacrifice, Herbert Mullen. Huh.
And like that signature is definitely unsettling, like a human sacrifice. But apparently the contents of the letter must not have been too alarming because no one reported them to the authorities.
Anybody signs off a letter human sacrifice, you're getting reported. Yeah, you're getting reported, buddy.
Now, on the afternoon of October 13th, Herbert got in his car and went out for a drive and he wasn't headed anywhere in particular particular. But by then, he had spent months thinking about his plan to save California, and it was finally time to put the plan into action.
I hate this. So he decided to just let the road take him wherever he was meant to go.
Oh, Christ. And he left Santa Cruz in the direction of the mountains, believing that his first sacrifice would definitely be found there.
And as he drove casually down Highway 9, the voices in his head grew stronger. And by the time he entered Rincon, I believe it is, they were practically shouting at him.
Because that's when he saw what he appeared to be in, you know, what he thought to be a homeless man walking down the side of the road. To Herbert, who had let the voices and the, you know, fates guide him thus far, there was no question that this man on the side of the road was his first sacrifice.
So he drove past the man on the side of the road, then rounded a bend in the road and pulled off to the side of the highway, got out, opened the hood of his car, and gave the impression of car trouble. Oh man.
reveal reason or another. Just a few weeks earlier in mid-September, he had been in custody at the Santa Cruz County Jail when a riot broke out among the inmates.
And, you know, shit was destroyed, mattresses were burned, it was a crazy riot. And several of the guards and inmates were assaulted.
Later, the county jail representative, George Foster, told reporters, you get a young guy who shoots off his mouth and the other inmates nail him.

They take out their frustrations in the only way they know how, with violence. Now, during that riot, Lawrence was struck in the head and lost consciousness.
So he had spent the last couple of weeks once he got out of the jail, because he was in there for like trivial reasons. Yeah, not like a long sentence.
Right.

So he had spent the last couple weeks at a rehab center near La Selva Beach before being discharged just back onto the street. Despite all his recent troubles, though, he wasn't one to turn away someone in need.
So when he saw, you know, Herbert's old Chevy station wagon pulled off to the side of the road, he approached and said, can I help? Like, what's going on? As it turned out, he actually knew a thing or two about cars and especially Chevys in particular. So it was helpful.
So he introduced himself and he's like, let me take a look under the hood. And, you know, and so Herbert was like, you know what? In exchange for your help, I'll drive you wherever you need to go.
Oh no. Now at first, Lawrence checked, you know, all the usual spots, making sure the engine had enough oil, all that stuff.
And while he was continuing to look under the hood, Herbert crept around to the back of the car and got a baseball bat he'd stashed in the trunk. His plan was to knock Lawrence unconscious, then stab him in the heart.
And the reason he was going to do this was because that's how he saw sacrifices happen in movies or books. Stab him in the heart.
That was always his, like, I need to stab them in the heart. Apparently, he wouldn't need to go through all that trouble because when Herbert returned to the front of the vehicle, Lawrence had just about finished under the hood and was, you know, about to tell him, like, I didn't find anything wrong with it.
And Herbert struck him with the bat in the back of the head as hard as he could, knocking him to the ground. Herbert struck him in the head three more times while he was on the ground.
And the blows from the bat didn't just incapacitate Lawrence White, they shattered the back of his skull. Oh, God.
And it actually pushed shards of bone into his brain, and he was killed instantly. Oh, my God.
Now, with Lawrence dead, Herbert had prevented apparently another catastrophic earthquake and, in his mind, saved millions of people.

No.

So he felt confident that he had done the right thing.

Wow, this is insane.

Yeah.

So he threw the bat back in the trunk, closed the hood,

and then he dragged Lawrence White's body into a nearby brush

and got back in the car and just headed home.

Jesus Christ.

Now, a few days later, Lawrence White's battered body would be discovered in the woods along the side of Highway 9. He was discovered by a passing driver who reported it to the police.
The death was labeled a homicide, the result of several blows to the head by, quote, a narrow blunt instrument. But it would be several months before they learned any of the details of Lawrence's death.
With no next of kin or state to contact,

Lawrence's remains were interred at Oakwood Memorial Park at the expense of the state. That's so sad.
Which is so sad. In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan.
This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him. We're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world.
And the suspect. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione.
...became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. I was targeted, premeditated, and meant to sow terror.
I'm Jesse Weber, host of Luigi, produced by Law & Crime and Twist. This is more than a true crime investigation.
We explore a uniquely American moment that could change the country forever.

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Finally, maybe this would lead rich and powerful people

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Spotify, or Apple Podcasts.

Now, after Lawrence's murder, Mullen expected to feel some sense of relief.

You know, he had lived up to what the voices in his head were telling him to do.

He had fulfilled his end of the bargain to say, you know, to stave off the impending earthquake. But he said he still felt a sense of unease and dread that he couldn't shake.
And then he realized why. He was like, oh, well, the Vietnam War had cost hundreds of thousands of lives.
So it really doesn't seem reasonable that one sacrifice is going to be enough to do this oh man and there was another new concern too

because since killing lawrence white his delusional thinking had become had come to include the frightening belief that the earth was being rapidly polluted and then now he had to go after people for that okay and he was believing that like people their bodies were polluting the earth Dear God.

Which, this next one is horrific.

Okay.

They all are, this next one is horrific okay they all are but this one that's particularly gruesome on october 24th just 10 days yeah damn after the murder of lawrence white um herbert was out for a drive along may avenue in santa cruz and he spotted 24 year old mary guilfoyle hurrying down the sidewalk. Apparently, Mary had an appointment at the Cabrillo College Department of Human Resources, and she was running late.
So she was so relieved when Herbert pulled up beside her in his station wagon and offered her a ride. It was becoming risky to hitchhike at that point, like known to be risky to hitchhike.
But he looked pretty ordinary. He just looked like a hippie.
Like he didn't look like particularly frightening. And, you know, she had taken rides before from like older men who had stopped and those were much scarier.
Yeah. So she decided to take a chance.
The two drove apparently in silence for a short time and then she started to talk

nervously. And, you know, Herbert just kind of continued to drive, kind of appearing to like,

he said he was kind of like ignoring her. And then he was fumbling with something down by his side.

Okay. And Mary had just opened her mouth to speak when his right hand shot up from his hip towards

her and he plunged a hunting knife into her chest and hit her heart immediately killed her instantly jesus he continued driving as you know she's bleeding profusely in the because he hit her heart yeah bleeding profusely in the front seat and he pulled the knife out of her chest and she slumped forward and he stabbed her

twice in the back as well and she fell to the floor now with mary now dead herbert drove out

to the mountains and found a turnoff where there appeared to be no cars and no evidence that cars

had been there for some time after parking the car he dragged mary's body out about 125 yards

into a wooded area laid her on the ground beneath a bunch of trees and then decided that sacrificing

Thank you. the car, he dragged Mary's body out about 125 yards into a wooded area, laid her on the ground beneath a bunch of trees, and then decided that sacrificing her would slow the rapid pollution of the world.
So he decided he needed to go a step further to make sure that occurred because she was going to be the sacrifice that would stop the pollution of the world. So to make sure that this sacrifice was correct, he sliced open her body, expecting to find evidence of pollution inside of her.
What the fuck? When he didn't see any immediate traces of pollution, he began digging with his hands, first into her intestines, then in her chest cavity oh my god and eventually he accepted that there was no pollution so he stood up wiped the blade of the knife clean and returned to the car and thought well this will keep us safe for a little while oh my god yeah holy shit gruesome so brutal. And didn't find any quote unquote evidence of pollution but still felt like it was fine.
Yeah. Now, for months, Herbert Mullen had been certain the voices in his head were guiding him on a mission to save mankind from disaster.
And no one could convince him otherwise. But after the murder of Mary Guilfoyle, he wasn't as certain in his divine guides as he'd once been, because again, he didn't find what he was thinking he would find.
Because if Mary had been the one responsible for all the pollution in the world, should he have not seen evidence of that in her body? Now, the tension between what he believed to be true and what he saw around him was causing him to grow very anxious and frustrated and irritable he had killed two people sacrifices to prevent the end of mankind and though he was now less convinced that he had done it correctly or done the right thing okay so those tensions and frustrations led to more arguments with his parents because remember he's still living at home right which in turn led to further drug use which in turn led to

worsening mental health yeah when he asked his mother what she thought he should do to calm his

unrest she gave the same answer she always gave him turn to the lord i don't think that will always

help this ended up being a statement that is so chilling when you find out what happens

Thank you. turn to the Lord.
I don't think that will always help. This ended up being a statement that is so chilling when you find out what happens.
Oh no. Because she said turn to the Lord.
And in the past whenever she would you know that's it she would give that answer he would dismiss the church and western religion as another tool to control the masses. But this time he decided yes I will turn to the Lord.
Oh God. Now on the afternoon of Novembernd, just one week after the murder of Mary Guilfoyle, Herbert went to St.
Mary's Catholic Church in Los Gatos. He later claimed he had gone to the church simply to confess his sins.
Uh-huh. But he also went there with a hunting knife tucked inside his jacket pocket.
So you take what you will from that. Probably not just confessing sins.
When he walked inside, he went through the Catholic routine he'd learned as a child, you know, dipping his hand in the thing, crossing himself with the holy water, and then kneeling to pay tribute to the altar. Okay.
After finishing this whole routine, he noticed that there was a little light glowing above the confessional booth, and so he went towards it. But he was hesitant to go inside and take a seat opposite a priest.
Yeah. He was a little nervous.
Now, inside the confessional, St. Mary's assistant pastor, Fr.
Henry Tomei, could hear a little bit of what was going on. He's like, somebody's out there, so he was wondering what was happening.
Father Tomei slipped the lock on his side of the confessional and swung the door open to find a very disheveled Herbert Mullen

standing before him.

Now, before Father Tomei could even open his mouth,

Herbert pulled the hunting knife from his jacket

and thrust it upward into the priest's chest.

Oh, my God.

The force of it sent both of them tumbling backwards

into the open confessional, where Father Tomei desperately struggled to get out from underneath Herbert Mullen. Now, Herbert didn't understand what was happening, because he had stabbed this man in the chest, just like he had stabbed Mary Guilfoyle a week before, and assumed he'd stabbed him in the heart.
But he didn't just die. Like, why is he struggling? So he pulled the knife from the priest's chest and Herbert lost his grip on the knife and it fell onto the floor.
And as he leaned down to pick it up, he felt something in his head because Father Tomei kicked him in the side of the head as hard as he could just above his ear. But unfortunately, Herbert Mullen was too quick.
And as Father Tomei tried to get up and flee, Herbert rushed at him again, bringing the knife down for a second time, and then a third, and then a fourth, and finally the priest was dead. Oh my god.
Father Tomei lay half in and half out of a confessional booth. Oh, that's so disturbing.
So Herbert tried to push the man's leg into the booth to cover up his crime. And as he was struggling to get Father Tomei's body inside of the confessional booth, he thought he heard a person scream.
So he turned around and no one was there. But he was certain that he heard footsteps running out of the church.
So he decided he shouldn't waste any more time. And he wiped the blood from his knife, put it back where he had gotten it, and he quickly ran out of the church and got to his car and drove the 20 minutes back to Santa Cruz.
Now at the time, Herb had wondered whether the scream he'd heard followed by the footsteps had been in his head. Yeah.
Because he knows that something is awry. Right.
But what he had heard was a real scream of terror from Margaret Reed, who'd walked into the church and caught a glimpse of Herbert trying to force the priest's dead body back into the confessional. Oh my.
Can you imagine seeing that? Cannot will not. The footsteps were because Reed ran the fuck out of the church to the rectory, where she pounded on the door of the senior priest, Father Richard Hawley, and Reed explained what she'd just seen, and Hawley instructed his secretary to call an ambulance.
While that was going on, Reed and Hawley returned to the church, and Father Hawley administered extreme unction, which is last rites, to Father Tomei, who was his friend, you know, like, which is really sad. The ambulance arrived a few minutes later, but it was too late.
Father Tomei was pronounced dead a few minutes after 4 p.m. He's just out here doing his job.
Well, it's even worse because what we find out is that I don't even think he was supposed to be there that day. Oh, yeah.
My God. I hate when things like when you hear something like that.
Oh, awful now in southern california the unsolved murder of you know this this man lawrence white who didn't have any next to kin had been dealing with like kind of like a tough time and was in and out of you know incidents very trivial incidents with the law it didn't get a lot of attention with the press unfortunately and honestly, neither did the disappearance of a young co-ed college student. Mary Gelfoyle has not been found.
Because a lot of people thought she had just run away voluntarily. It was the time.
Yeah. But the brutal murder of a priest in the day in a church confessional? I mean, that's got a lot of elements that's kind of...
I get that. I get that.
It definitely caught everyone's attention. Yeah.
I mean, that's one you're going to go, what? Very sad that the other two things didn't. Absolutely.
But you can very much understand why this— Why this would. I'm not saying the other two shouldn't, but, like, this one definitely makes sense.
Right. The next day, the Associated Press reported on the death of the 68-year-old French priest.
According to Margaret Reid, she'd entered the church just in time to see, quote, a young assailant kicking and striking the priest. Now, as expected, Father Tomei's death prompted a large investigation as investigators combed the city looking for anything that pointed to a suspect.
According to Father Tomei's housekeeper, like I said, he hadn't planned on being at the church that afternoon. He had only stopped in to see if anyone was there waiting to give confession.
Wow. So this is both, it's two things.
It's very sad. And two, it made it clear that the killer hadn't expected him to be there.
Right. So this wasn't planned.
Detective Sergeant Jim Shea told reporters, so far there does not appear to be any motive at all for this killing. And they also hadn't found a murder weapon or identified even a potential suspect.
And a few days later, detectives in attendance at Tomei's funeral started scanning the faces and body language of more than 700 attendees at his funeral.

So he was obviously well-loved.

Yeah.

And they were hoping that the man's killer might be among them, because that does happen.

That happens a lot.

But they didn't find anyone suspicious.

Like the murders of Lawrence White and Mary Guilfoyle,

the murder of Father Henry Tomei appeared completely motiveless and baffled investigators

who simply couldn't fathom who would kill a priest in the daytime in a church and stuff him in a confessional. But while they may not have understood the killer's motive, they did understand the dangers of having a killer on the loose and a vigorous investigation was then launched.
At the same time, Mary Guilfoyle's parents had hired a private detective to track their daughter down who was still missing. That's so sad because the police thought she was the wrong way.
Now, investigator Bill Tubbs said it appears that she probably was picked up as a hitchhiker. There's just no logical place she could have gone except for her stated destination, but she just never arrived there.
Now, between the intensification of the investigations and Herbert Mullen's growing discomfort with what he'd done now, because he's still not feeling like he's doing what he's supposed to, he decided to slow down and develop a strategy. He knew he still needed to offer sacrifices to hold off the impending disaster and gain the approval of the voices that guided him, which had come to include his father's voice, he said.
What? But he thought there had to be a more morally righteous way other than murder and we will get to that in part two elena elena he is this is scary mother fucker yeah this is scary and it's also just really sad that this is so sad could have been avoided had he been properly medicated. He needed to be hospitalized, medicated.
He needed intensive help. Yeah.
For sure. Yeah.
Because also this entire time he's sitting here saying, I don't know if I'm doing the right thing, but he's still doing it because he has this like intense belief that there's voices telling him. Yeah.
It's such a, it's a very interesting case because of how layered it is. Right.
It's so sad, though. It is really sad.
I mean, these people were just, Lawrence White was just walking down the street and stopped to help someone. Mm-hmm.
When he was down on his luck. That's the thing.
Like, he was down on his luck. Was still gonna help someone.
And he still took time out of his, while walking down the street, not even to a a home to stop and help somebody and it's like mary guilfoyle was just running late to an appointment her whole life in front of her oh that's it's like we were saying it's so sad like when somebody's not supposed to be there it's like if she she was just running late like she was on time you know and then father tomei Not even supposed to be at the church. But he stopped in case people needed confession.

Wow.

Ugh.

Like, it's really sad.

It's awful.

Yeah.

It's awful.

Well, we'll hear more of the awful in part two.

Yeah.

And we hope you keep listening.

And we hope you keep it weird.

You know not to keep it this weird.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye. Thank you.
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I'm Lindsey Graham from the podcast American History Tellers. And if you're still reeling from Ash and Elena's episode on the Boston molasses disaster and you want to dive even deeper, you're in luck.
My show doesn't usually venture too far into the spooky or creepy, but we've dedicated two full episodes to uncovering fascinating details about this bizarre molasses catastrophe. From the company's negligence to the victim's harrowing stories, we explore how this strange event reshaped industrial safety laws and left an indelible mark on Boston's history.
And the Boston molasses disaster is just one of many fascinating stories waiting for you on American history tellers. We take you to the events, the times, and the people that shaped our nation and show you how our history affected them, their families, and affects you

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Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to both American History Tellers and Morbid early and

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