What Happens When You Trade Your Home for a Debt-Free Start?

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Speaker 9 It's almost time to go back to school, at least for the kids of America. Do you know where your pencil cases and lunch boxes are? Do you need new ones?

Speaker 9 If so, we've got some advice for how to navigate the school supply resupply budget.

Speaker 10 Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast, where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds.

Speaker 9 I'm Sean Files.

Speaker 11 And I'm Elizabeth Ayola. Later this episode, we'll answer a listener's question about whether they should sell a house in order to pay off a large amount of debt.

Speaker 11 But first up, our weekly money news roundup, where we break down the latest in the world of finance to help you be smarter with your money.

Speaker 9 Our news colleague, Ana Hilhoski, is back with some numbers on back-to-school spending, something that I'm very glad that I don't have to budget for. And Ana, this is not a small expense, is it?

Speaker 12 No, it is not. And Nervol conducts an annual survey about those costs.

Speaker 12 And this year's report found that more than half of parents of children K through 12 or college say the back-to-school season is financially stressful for their family.

Speaker 12 So to dig into some of the reasons why, we've asked Erin Elisa, a senior dad writer here at Nerdwalt, to talk with us today. Erin, welcome back to Smart Money.

Speaker 13 Thanks for having me.

Speaker 12 So the report found that parents are expected to spend over $700 per household this year. How does that compare to previous years and what's driving that number?

Speaker 13 So it's about $200 more than last year, which is significant. Yeah.

Speaker 13 And it seems like tariff-related price increases, or at least the assumption of tariff-related price increases, may be driving this higher estimate.

Speaker 12 So people are trying to get ahead of tariffs, I assume?

Speaker 13 So this survey was fielded back in May, and tariffs have been kind of will they, won't they since then. But I think that the estimates are a bit higher just because people have been expecting them.

Speaker 13 Actually, 39% of back-to-school shoppers say they'll buy different brands due to those price increases, and 35% say they'll shop with different retailers.

Speaker 13 Others say they'll buy fewer clothing items or supplies. And 22% say they'll contribute less to their child's school or classroom this year.

Speaker 12 That's pretty interesting because a lot of the anticipated related effects from tariffs haven't really settled in yet, but people are thinking that way and they're hoping against hope, I guess.

Speaker 12 So the report found that 13% say that they'll likely go into debt for school supplies, while 46% say they would go into debt to pay for back-to-school items that would help their child fit in at school.

Speaker 12 Seems like there are social pressure elements at play here. That doesn't seem like anything new, but is it consistent with previous years?

Speaker 13 Yep, that's pretty consistent. And I totally understand.
I'm a parent myself. I get that parents want to give their kids the very best.
I do think it's worth interrogating what that means, though.

Speaker 13 Thinking about short-term purchases like back to school or long-term financial stability.

Speaker 12 Is there anything that you remember about purchases that you wanted to fit in when you were in school? And did your parents fold?

Speaker 13 As a child of the 90s, Lisa Frank folders were always

Speaker 13 on the shopping list. But my parents, we didn't have a lot of extra money, but they did prioritize new back-to-school supplies and clothing every single year.

Speaker 13 In fact, one year my mom didn't have the money to afford it and she side hustled. She bartended for like a month and a half

Speaker 13 in order to buy me those new back-to-school clothes. It's not something I prioritize as a parent, but I do have really good memories about that.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I definitely remember Lisa Frank as being something that was also a 90s child, that Lisa Frank was something that was just a little too trendy and a little bit more expensive than like the regular folders.

Speaker 12 And same with the trendy book covers. My parents are like, yeah, you're going to use brown paper bags, but you can cover them with stickers.

Speaker 13 Yeah, those Lisa Frank folders, though, those were investments. They're on eBay for like hundreds of dollars now.
It's crazy. Right.
Those original ones.

Speaker 12 Yeah, yeah. If only, if only.
I do remember getting like the cool lunchbox, though. So there, there were some things that were prioritized.
And how do you feel about being a parent?

Speaker 12 You know, is there anything that you do now?

Speaker 13 I have two kids, but only one is school-aged. My daughter is going into first grade.
So I actually purchased two items for her for back to school shopping.

Speaker 13 We got her a Pokemon backpack because she wanted it and a pair of sneakers because she needed them.

Speaker 13 Other than that, I am not buying other school supplies and I'm not going back to school shopping for new new clothes.

Speaker 13 Now, something to keep in mind with this is this is because I have the child that I have.

Speaker 13 If I had a child who I think would feel so much more confident walking into school with a new outfit, then maybe that would be something that's important to me.

Speaker 13 But like keeping my own financial priorities in mind and knowing my child and what's important to her, those are the decisions we've made.

Speaker 12 Right. You always have to make choices there.
And what methods are most people using to make those back to school purchases? Are there any differences that are standing out from prior years?

Speaker 13 So credit cards have officially edged out debit cards as the top payment method. But also, buy now, pay later is definitely growing in popularity.
23%

Speaker 13 of back-to-school shoppers plan to use those buy now pay later services to pay for at least some of the supplies.

Speaker 12 And how are people saving money this season? Are they cutting back or making trade-offs in their purchases? And what tends to get cut? first? Is it clothes? Is it tech? Supplies?

Speaker 13 So pretty consistently year over year, we see a lot of the same savings actions. So many back-to-school shoppers shop sales.
They use coupons.

Speaker 13 They limit purchases to those that are required or requested by their school. For trade-offs, 27% of back-to-school shoppers this year say they'll purchase fewer back-to-school clothing items.

Speaker 13 And 25% say the same about supplies due to those tariff-related price increases. So not much of a difference in categories, but some parents were really eager to get ahead of the tariff.

Speaker 13 So like I said, the survey was fielded in May and 26% of back to school shoppers say they had already purchased new tech items for the upcoming school year to avoid those price hikes.

Speaker 12 Oh, wow. I mean, we did see a huge hike in consumer purchases in general in the spring.
So I imagine back to school is part of that.

Speaker 12 How can parents set expectations about what they will and won't purchase this year?

Speaker 13 I think it's really important to have these age-appropriate money conversations with your kids.

Speaker 13 I think as parents, a a lot of times we want to shelter our children from these difficult conversations, but I think we can do it in a respectful and age-appropriate way that isn't scary.

Speaker 13 Like if you have a strict budget, communicate that. Or if you can't purchase something that's a want, but not a need, you know, just explain this isn't in the budget or it's not a priority right now.

Speaker 13 I use that a lot with my kids. Like.
this is not a priority or different families have different priorities that kind of stuff when we're talking about spending um they might be upset

Speaker 13 Full disclosure, they might be upset. It's hard to hear no.
I think as grown-ups, it's kind of hard to hear no a lot of times. But yeah, but it's a good lesson for the future.

Speaker 13 They don't get everything they want now. They won't get everything they want later.
We have to make trade-offs.

Speaker 12 Right. And being transparent about that in so much as a kid can understand that makes a lot of sense.
Any other tips for saving money this back to school shopping season?

Speaker 13 So I'm more of a minimizer than a deal finder. That's my particular favorite way to save money is buying less.

Speaker 13 So I would say go through last year's school supplies and see what you can salvage for this year.

Speaker 13 Hosting a supply swap with neighbors or religious community or school community at large could be great.

Speaker 13 And if your child hasn't outgrown last year's school clothes and they're like my child and they don't really care about having new clothes, just use last year's school clothes. It's fine.

Speaker 13 If they still fit, they're good.

Speaker 12 There's always thrifting too.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 12 All right. Erin, thank you so much for your time.

Speaker 13 Thank you.

Speaker 14 And thank you, Ana. Elizabeth, do any of those back-to-school shopping tips resonate with you? I know you're probably in the midst of this right now with your son.

Speaker 11 Well, actually, I finally have done my back to school shopping. And guess how much I spent, Sean, on supplies?

Speaker 3 Zero dollars?

Speaker 11 20 bucks.

Speaker 6 $20.

Speaker 6 Yes.

Speaker 3 That's amazing. Cheap

Speaker 12 I've ever had.

Speaker 11 Crayons, color pencils, notebooks, folders, everything on the supply list I got for 20 bucks. So there were some really, really good sales.
I got like Crayola color pencils for like 50 cents.

Speaker 11 I couldn't believe it. Good job.

Speaker 9 And were you able to avoid any arguments about your son wanting things that you didn't want to pay for?

Speaker 11 I wasn't. I wasn't.
I wasn't. But of course I won the battle because I'm mom.

Speaker 11 But I loved Aaron's tip about not necessarily overbuying clothes because my son's the kind of kid who's like, why do I need to look good when I leave in the morning? Why do I need to brush my hair?

Speaker 11 I don't have to look nice every day. So he does not care.

Speaker 9 Yeah, that's not his priority. So why spend money there?

Speaker 11 Exactly. So I bought him 10 t-shirts and we're good to go.

Speaker 9 Love to hear that.

Speaker 3 All right.

Speaker 9 Well, up next, we're going to answer answer a listener's question about whether they should sell their house to pay off a large amount of debt.

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Speaker 14 We're back and answering your money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions.

Speaker 14 This episode, we're talking with a listener, Delius, who has some questions about whether they should sell their house to resolve their credit card debt. Delius, welcome to Smart Money.

Speaker 15 Hi, I'm so happy to be here.

Speaker 11 We're excited to speak with you, Delius, but it's only right that we start the conversation with an icebreaker.

Speaker 11 And when you reached out to us, we learned that you are an actor and you were on Broadway for many years, which I find very intriguing. So I've tailored the icebreaker to that.

Speaker 11 And my question for you is, I want you to describe your year so far with a Broadway play.

Speaker 3 Ooh,

Speaker 15 okay.

Speaker 15 Okay. I'm not going to think too hard about this.

Speaker 15 I'm going to say Gypsy. There's a new production going on with Audrey McDonald.

Speaker 15 All black cast. It's amazing about a

Speaker 15 ex-show girl that has turned into a show mom. She's now a show woman.

Speaker 15 And I feel like that's how my year has been. It's like I'm fighting tooth and nails, you know,

Speaker 15 but everything is coming up roses. Yeah, because it's getting better.
It's getting better.

Speaker 14 Good. Yeah, you're setting out your new life and on your way to be a show mom.

Speaker 15 Yeah, totally.

Speaker 3 Absolutely.

Speaker 5 I love that.

Speaker 11 So tell us what aspects of that reflect your finances.

Speaker 15 I have been a performer ever since I graduated undergraduate, and I didn't get a lot of financial literacy. And so

Speaker 15 I just didn't know. I made a lot of mistakes.
And now I feel like I am actually taking the time to seek this information out and get better, to make my finances better.

Speaker 15 I think I didn't even know where to begin to make financial changes to my life. But now I feel like, okay, I at least am starting to form some kind of plan.

Speaker 14 Yeah. And that's why we're here today.
So you reached out to us with quite the financial story.

Speaker 14 Can you talk with us about what you've done with your finances, how you got to where you are, all of that?

Speaker 15 So I joined the Book of Mormon on Broadway when I was 22.

Speaker 15 So really, really exciting because I was making six figures right out of college as an artist, which was awesome. And I was really financially responsible.

Speaker 15 Like I still had roommates during my time in New York and while I was on Broadway, I didn't know all of the emergency savings, but I was putting money to my 401k.

Speaker 15 I had a lot of money and savings that I ended up when I left the show.

Speaker 15 I bought a house because I was left the show to go to grad school.

Speaker 15 And I was trying to close on my house before I left Mormon because it looked like I was in a higher financial bracket than when I was going to school.

Speaker 15 But they were like, okay, we'll give you this mortgage, but you're not going to be making as much money as when you were on Broadway, so we need you to put like 50% down.

Speaker 15 So I took like most of my savings, put down on my home in Vegas, and then it made my mortgage really, really affordable. Like my mortgage now is at 2.69.

Speaker 14 Nice

Speaker 14 pandemic era interest rate.

Speaker 15 Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, like pre-pandemic.
It was like 2016. So then grad school happened, and I wasn't making a lot of money, but Vegas wasn't as expensive as New York.

Speaker 15 So I was like, okay, well, I'm not really saving any money now, but it's fine. I'm getting a master's.
I didn't have a problem with getting work before.

Speaker 15 Won't have a problem with getting work afterwards.

Speaker 14 There's a short term time where you weren't going to be able to save.

Speaker 15 Yeah, so I was like, oh, this is, this is fine. I got a lot of the travel credit cards at the time.

Speaker 15 And I would always, because I love, that was my one vice was I was like, you know, I'm working hard during the show, but we get like a week off every six six months so I was like okay I'm gonna go on a trip so I got these high credit limits was it a vice because you weren't paying off the credit cards or a vice just in the sense that you were traveling yeah just just because I was traveling at this point okay I did know that it would affect the credit if I didn't pay it off um so I paid it off immediately and they would they kept extending the credit extending the credit extending the credit to the point that I had like

Speaker 15 three credit cards, each with $25,000 credit limits. I got in a little bit of debt during school, but I'm like, it's fine.
You know, I'll pay these things off after grad school.

Speaker 15 Then grad school ended. That was 2019.
I did a couple original shows. In my mind, I was still on Broadway.
So I'm like, oh, this, I'm going to travel. I'm going to buy nice things, you know.

Speaker 15 But I didn't have the Broadway salary. So I'm still, the credit is slowly starting to increase, but I'm like, oh, it's going to be fine.

Speaker 15 Like I will eventually get back to Broadway or something better. Now I have a grad degree.
And then the pandemic happened. But I'm like, okay,

Speaker 15 this pandemic is only going to last a couple of months. It's fine.

Speaker 14 And we all remember how that went.

Speaker 15 Right. We all remember how that went.
And so I continue to charge things on credit. The pandemic is when the snowball started to happen.

Speaker 14 Because you didn't have money coming in, so you were just charging everyday expenses on your

Speaker 15 charging rent. I was charging everyday expenses, groceries.
Did the show, I moved back to Los Angeles, and

Speaker 15 I

Speaker 15 am in hopes of now, like, okay, well, let's, I need, now I need like television money because I need a large lump sum to help me wipe this debt away. And then we had the big writer's strike in LA.

Speaker 15 So it was like this.

Speaker 14 One thing after another.

Speaker 15 One after another. These are New York and LA are like two of the most expensive places.
And I just am not bringing in the type of money that I thought I would have been the entertainment industry.

Speaker 14 So it seems like you had a number of years of accumulating this debt. How much did you rack up in total and where are you now with it?

Speaker 15 Total about $75,000. This year I have started a debt consolidation plan.
I also took money for my 401k. So now I'm at about 55.

Speaker 11 Good progress. So you have credit card debt, you have student loans, is that it?

Speaker 15 Or do you have any other technology? I have credit card debt. I have my mortgage.
I have a car loan. Just owe my mom some money because she helped me out.

Speaker 3 Thanks, mom.

Speaker 3 I know.

Speaker 14 I'm hoping that that's the lowest interest debt you have.

Speaker 15 Yeah, totally, totally, totally.

Speaker 14 Okay. So when you reached out to us, you mentioned that you had this debt and you're hoping to maybe make some changes to resolve it so you can move forward in your life.

Speaker 14 You said that you're about to move in with a partner. So you're, you're at this point going back to the play that you mentioned earlier where you're re-establishing this new phase of your life.

Speaker 14 So, what changes might you want to make? And what are you hoping to do with this debt?

Speaker 15 Right now, I am currently a, I got an awesome job in Burbank, California.

Speaker 3 Congratulations.

Speaker 15 It's performing arts. I direct and I choreograph and I teach.

Speaker 15 So, it's awesome because it's salary, and I could potentially have this job for as long as I want this job, which is, I feel really, really happy and proud of myself for that.

Speaker 15 I loved being a homeowner. I think it was one of the best decisions I've made in my life.
So, I would love to be able to buy a house in California.

Speaker 15 I would love to pay off all my debt, pay off my car note. I would love to

Speaker 15 have an emergency savings. I would love to,

Speaker 15 yeah, have money to put aside to travel more.

Speaker 15 I just want to feel free.

Speaker 3 again.

Speaker 14 Of course. And it's hard to feel free when you have this debt hanging over your head.
So I have a few thoughts about your situation.

Speaker 14 And before I get into all of them, a quick reminder that I'm not your financial or tax advisor. That's a quick courtesy of NerdWallet's legal team.

Speaker 14 But you said that you are on a debt consolidation program and that's through a non-profit credit counseling agency, right?

Speaker 15 Correct.

Speaker 14 And so you are paying off $70,000 or $50 some thousand dollars of debt. Yeah.
Do you know how long it might take you to pay off this debt if you stick with the current plan?

Speaker 15 I started in January. The year is five five years, so now four years and six months.

Speaker 14 And the thought is you could sell your house and you have this lump sum of money.

Speaker 14 You could wipe out your debt, your credit card debt, your car loan, and then still have some hopefully left over to be able to put toward that emergency fund and maybe even a down payment on a house.

Speaker 15 Correct.

Speaker 14 What I'm wondering about too is you're getting rental income from this property. Do you know what your finances might look like if you no longer have that money coming in? Have you mapped that out?

Speaker 14 And also, how much are you getting monthly from this rental? How much are you netting from it?

Speaker 15 Yeah, I net after I pay my mortgage and everything and the HOA, I net seven, about $7.50.

Speaker 14 Okay.

Speaker 14 That's not nothing. And how much are you bringing in each month with your new gig?

Speaker 15 My salary is $90,000. We get paid bi-weekly and I walk away with about $2,800.

Speaker 14 So what I would encourage you to do is do almost a before and after with your finances and see, here's where my money is going now with my current income.

Speaker 14 Again, we're really big into the 50, 30, 20 budget format because it is a nice template for you to see how much is going towards needs, wants, and debt payments and savings.

Speaker 14 And the goal of this format is to have balanced finances.

Speaker 14 So if you are, you know, maybe towards 60 or 65%, maybe even 70% for your needs, that's not uncommon in California, but that means you'll have to kind of cut back elsewhere.

Speaker 14 So take a snapshot of where your money is going with your current income, given this rental property.

Speaker 14 See what it might look like without that in the picture, just so you understand, given that you have had so many changes in your financial life over the past few months, just what it might look like for you and whether you'd be able to afford all of your expenses if you didn't have this income.

Speaker 14 But I guess that also leads me to the question of how much are you paying toward your credit card debt each month with this DMP?

Speaker 15 $1,482 a month.

Speaker 14 So.

Speaker 14 you know, maybe double what you're getting from your rental property.

Speaker 14 So your situation is really interesting and complicated and shows how the real world isn't always as clear-cut as the ideal of what people should do with their money.

Speaker 14 A lot of times when we talk about debt management plans, we encourage people to speak with bankruptcy attorneys before they sign on to one because bankruptcy is often faster and cheaper than a debt management plan, especially if you're going the chapter seven route.

Speaker 14 Now, because you have this asset, this house that you were already maybe thinking of selling, that really changes the calculus a bit.

Speaker 14 So you could potentially wipe out your debt with this money from your house and then have kind of that clean slate going back to that play that we were talking about earlier.

Speaker 14 It's like all these new changes, but that's not going to be maybe as easy as it might seem either because selling a house isn't simple. You have people living there right now.

Speaker 15 I do.

Speaker 14 And when is their lease up?

Speaker 15 August.

Speaker 14 Okay. Oh, wow.
And we're speaking at the very end of July right now. So

Speaker 14 what kind of notice do you have to give them? Are you familiar with the process of trying to sell the place?

Speaker 15 At the end of this lease, we've decided to go on a month to month. And then within the month to month, I can give them a 30-day notice.
My

Speaker 15 thought was because, and I started the process of sending all this information to my CPA.

Speaker 15 I took money out of my 401k this year also.

Speaker 15 So I'm like, if I happen, let's say we put the house on the market and it does sell this year also, it's going to look like, you know, I'm really, really income will be higher, yeah, and you pay more in taxes.

Speaker 15 Yeah. So I, my thought was that if I

Speaker 15 got all, did all the research

Speaker 15 now

Speaker 15 about the tax breaks and then maybe sell the house next, like at the beginning of January or February, so that it's at least in a different tax year, that'd be smarter.

Speaker 15 So, but the plan is to put them on a month-to-month so that I can have a February notice to give them.

Speaker 14 Okay. Well, I'm glad you have a CPA because this stuff gets super complicated, especially when you're selling a property in one state, you live in another.

Speaker 14 You'll want a CPA to model this out for you for how it might look. And do you have a general idea of how much you might get at this point?

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 15 you know, from Redfin Zillow, it's looking like the comps in the area and the other townhomes in the community are going for about $315,000.

Speaker 15 Yeah, and I have about $50,000 left on my mortgage. So I could net quite a bit, you know, if it goes in my favor.

Speaker 14 Yeah.

Speaker 14 There's part of me that if I were you, I would really want to hold on to that house because your credit card debt, while it can feel really overwhelming and it's a lot to be paying each month for it, in 15 years, you could still have this rental property income and you'll be out of debt.

Speaker 14 So in some ways, it's a long-term solution, selling this house to what's a relatively short-term problem, having this. mound of credit card debt.

Speaker 14 And it's a non-insignificant amount, but that's a tough thing to consider as well. Have you thought about that?

Speaker 15 I have. I said that I would only sell it when I was ready to put a down payment into something else.
So I think in my mind, I thought like, okay,

Speaker 15 yes, this is a

Speaker 15 great rental property and rental income, but essentially I'm just kind of like moving that bank into like another bank, like a rollover in my head.

Speaker 15 What do you think that selling the house versus not selling it will give you based on all the things we've discussed what are you leaning towards and why well the average price of a pretty standard you know two bedroom two bath in Los Angeles is about eight hundred thousand to a million dollars I feel like to get that down payment to get eighty thousand dollars along with all my emergency savings stuff that's also probably gonna take about 10 to 15 years so if it feels like I can kind of expedite that process if I sell my house I would would love if I didn't have to sell it.

Speaker 15 Like I would love if I had $80,000 in the bank to be able to pay for a home in Los Angeles along with that, but I don't right now.

Speaker 14 And selling the house would give you a fresh start in many ways. It would allow you to put more toward retirement.
You pulled out money from your 401k. Was that your balance?

Speaker 15 No, I still have like maybe 20,000.

Speaker 14 Okay.

Speaker 14 Put a few hundred dollars more a month in your 401k just because you have this freed up cash of not putting so much towards your debt each month, that could help you accelerate things further out, too.

Speaker 14 So you are at this fork in the road, and it's not just like two paths you can take, there are multiple different paths that you can take.

Speaker 14 And again, I want to encourage you to talk with that CPA that you mentioned and model out what some different tax scenarios might look like depending on when you would sell the house and how much you might owe in taxes based on cashing out your 401k and

Speaker 14 maybe getting money from this house too.

Speaker 14 And then think as well around how much money you would have in your 401k in 15, 20 years based on what you might be able to contribute to that with the extra cash that you have in your budget each month.

Speaker 14 So just get those numbers down.

Speaker 11 I want to say I understand where you're coming from, Delius, because I started out wanting to be a full-time creative and then capitalism quickly chased me into full-time work.

Speaker 11 So, which I love the work that I do, but you know, I've found a way to bridge the two, right? But my point is, at that time, I was not really thinking about when I want to retire.

Speaker 11 It was more like, like you said, how can I have the freedom and the financial capabilities to be able to do what I love indefinitely, really?

Speaker 11 So I think what you're seeing here is there isn't always just one right answer, right? There are multiple options, and then you just have to decide which one is best for you.

Speaker 11 If you do get to the point, well, when you do get to the point where you're buying you a house and you're saving towards that, in addition to High Yield Saves accounts, you could put your money also potentially in a certificate of deposit.

Speaker 11 So that's another saving vehicle that you can use where you're able to park your money and then you get a fixed interest rate and you can earn money on that.

Speaker 11 So it's relatively low risk and you can usually get it at a banker's credit union.

Speaker 14 Delius, I know we've run through a lot of different aspects of your finances and I'd love to hear how you're thinking and what you think your next steps might be.

Speaker 15 I

Speaker 15 honestly thought you were, you could possibly say, like, this is a completely bad idea. Don't do it.
Do not sell your house.

Speaker 15 I was completely, I was talking to my partner about that because he's against it too, but he's a lawyer. I think that he was maybe hoping that you would say, don't do it, don't do it.

Speaker 15 But what I'm hearing you say, which my intuition, I don't have all the language for it, but was that there's a lot of different ways to skin this cat. And so

Speaker 15 it probably would behoove me to really just thoroughly research all the different ways, look at all the numbers and really play the numbers game of which is the most cost effective over the course.

Speaker 14 It's the the numbers game and it's also the game of the heart too. What feels best to you?

Speaker 15 I remember being financially free during time that I was on Broadway and I felt like I was more of myself. Like I was the person in the friend group who organized and helped and planned.

Speaker 15 And I think now I just,

Speaker 15 I really don't have that energy anymore. Like I'm just kind of like trying to make sure I have my stuff together.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 15 Yeah, I can feel it.

Speaker 14 I'm sure you can get back to that place. So it's just a matter of time and figuring out the best path there.
So, Delius, thank you so much for coming on and being so candid and open with us.

Speaker 14 It's been a joy to chat with you and hear your story.

Speaker 15 Of course. Thank you so much for having me.
It's been a pleasure.

Speaker 14 That's all we have for this episode. Remember, listener, that we are here to answer your money questions.
So turn to the nerds and call or text us your questions at 901-730-6373.

Speaker 14 That's 901-730-N-E-R-D.

Speaker 14 You can also email us at podcast at nerdwallet.com.

Speaker 11 And join us next time to hear about why some health insurance plans might get a lot more expensive next year and also what you can do about it.

Speaker 11 Follow Smart Money on your favorite podcast app that includes Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes.

Speaker 14 Here's our brief disclaimer and a reminder. We are not your financial or investment advisors.

Speaker 10 This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances. This episode was produced by Tess Viglund.

Speaker 10 Hilary Georgie helped with editing. editing.
Nick Ferissimi mixed our audio. And a big thank you, as always, to NerdWallet's editors for all their help.

Speaker 11 And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds.

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