Stay Ahead of a Government Shutdown and Learn How to Invest Extra Money Wisely

If you're having a sense of deja vu these days, well, it could be for a lot of different reasons.

Maybe you're wearing the same outfit that you wore yesterday.

Maybe you watched a movie and realized halfway through that you'd seen it before.

Or maybe you looked at the news and here we are again, facing the possibility of a federal government shutdown.

Let's talk about how to manage through turbulent times.

Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast, where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds.

I'm Sean Files.

And I'm Elizabeth Ayola.

Later this episode, we'll be answering a listener's question about the new priorities that come about once you've changed your financial habits for the better.

But first, our weekly money news roundup, where we break down the latest in the world of finance to help you be smarter with your money.

Our news colleague, Ana Hilhoski, is back to talk about a potential government shutdown next week and what it means for you.

Ana, here we are again.

So first, let's explain how this happens.

Yes, here we are again for the,

I I don't know, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, who knows?

Who's tracking

at this point?

I've also lost track of the last few years.

But Congress is at an impasse over how to fund the government, and they are running out of time to prevent a government shutdown.

If they miss that deadline, which is next week, many non-essential federal services would be suspended.

And we're going to get more into that later.

But first, I want to provide a little context, a little background for you.

Every single year, Congress has to approve 12 appropriation bills that keep the government funded before the new fiscal year begins on October 1st.

These are really detailed budgets funding different parts of the federal government.

So like one bill covers defense, another covers transportation and housing, another funds education, so on.

These programs have already been authorized to exist, but without appropriations, they're not going to be funded.

So think of it like paying for utilities or insurance.

The government needs to pay its bills.

And if it doesn't approve funding, then those programs can't run.

So for the last two years, lawmakers have avoided shutdowns by approving a series of short-term extensions.

They're known as continuing resolutions.

And the most recent was on March 14th.

The Senate approved a House GOP continuing resolution extending funding for six months, keeping the government operating through September 30th.

And that's where we're at now.

So tell us what the latest development is then, Anna.

Well, last week, the Senate rejected two competing plans.

One was from House Republicans, one was from Senate Democrats.

So last last week, House Republicans passed what would be a clean stock gap that would extend funding through November 21st, and Democrats pushed their own measure to extend funding through October 31st.

But Democrats also want to add provisions baked into the extension that include permanently extending Obamacare subsidies that are expiring and rolling back recent Medicaid cuts that were included in the one big beautiful bill.

Now, Congress is in recess this week, but lawmakers were expected to return on Monday.

And then last week, House GOP leaders announced that the House would not be returning to session on September 29th or September 30th, despite the midnight deadline on October 1st.

Great.

I love to hear all of that.

Sounds really healthy and normal and functional.

So will you walk us through what exactly happens if a government shutdown does occur?

It's going to play havoc with several federal government agencies and operations.

So as I mentioned, non-essential services will be suspended, but other programs that receive mandatory funding will be spared.

Things like Social Security, for example.

Now, during a shutdown, you don't have to worry about things like air traffic control or power grid maintenance, for example, but most federal employees are going to be furloughed.

There's already been a huge reduction in the federal workforce this year, largely due to mass firings.

So many departments are already running on shoestring staffs.

We have seen shutdowns in the past, so can you jog our memory and tell us what happens with those?

If you haven't been keeping count, there have been 21 shutdowns since 1976, but most of them have been pretty short-lived, like a week.

The 2018-2019 shutdown was notably the longest in history at 35 days.

And that was due to disputes over funding for a border wall.

The 2013 shutdown lasted 16 days, and that was due to a standoff over the Affordable Care Act.

And then there was also two shutdowns in 1995 and 1996 that totaled 26 days.

And that was largely due to spending cuts and budget priorities.

So how does all of this affect us, like normal people, maybe folks who are not working for the federal government?

Let's start with Social Security.

People will get their checks, right?

Yes, those payments are still going to continue, but there could be some delays for things like whether or not someone's granted disability status or they need a correction on their earnings records.

Now, if needed, the Social Security Administration would increase the number of employees that are exempt from furlough in order to keep operations going.

And they did that during the 2013 shutdown.

And what about things like Medicaid and Medicare?

Those benefits will continue, but administrative services could be slow.

So if you want to get a replacement Medicare card, for example, that might take a little bit longer and overpayment processing would too.

Sounds like now is not the time to be procrastinating.

How about for travelers?

What happens with TSA agents?

You also mentioned air traffic control.

TSA agents and air traffic controllers are actually considered essential workers.

So they would work without pay during a shutdown, but that's a lot to demand of a worker.

And in past shutdowns, it called out.

That could mean airport lines, delays, and even groundings.

In 2019, when there was a partial government shutdown, 10 absent, only 10 absent air traffic controllers at LaGuardia Airport in New York grounded flights and other major East Coast airports saw delays too.

So even a small staff shortage can have a big impact.

I'm flying to New York next week, and let me tell you, this does not make me feel good about that.

Okay.

Well, let's talk about travelers to national parks.

Are those going to be open?

The National Park Service could shut down.

In 2013, the Park Service turned away millions of visitors at more than 400 parks and monuments.

And then during the 2018-2019 shutdown, many parks did remain open, but there weren't visitor services.

Like, nobody was picking up the trash.

And food assistance?

SNAP and WIC benefits will keep going for a while because there are contingency funds in place for those programs.

But if the shutdown goes on for more than 30 days, WIC runs out of money entirely.

And SNAP could be strained too, unless the USDA can move some money around.

For those of us who have sneaky packages coming in, will people still get their mail?

Yep, mail delivery would continue.

Employees will still work and the U.S.

Postal Service post offices would remain open.

It's actually a pretty common misconception that the USPS is funded by the federal government.

Revenue really comes from selling products, so stamps and packaging and then it's other shipping and delivery services.

There are so many other areas to cover too.

So let's talk about unemployment benefits and those furloughed workers that we mentioned earlier.

Unemployment benefits are going to continue because states are the ones administering those programs.

But the federal government does pay administrative costs.

So if the shutdown drags on, then there could be a delay in processing applications.

Now, furloughed federal workers might qualify for unemployment, but it's going to depend on their state.

Once the government is fully operational again, they could be required to return any unemployment money that they had received.

Any workers that are essential and require to work are not going to be eligible for any assistance.

How about rail riders?

Amtrak's going to keep running.

The rail service is a federally chartered corporation, but Amtrak is operated as a for-profit company.

They do receive some federal grants, so a long shutdown could impact its cash flow and maybe even its operations, but that's pretty unlikely.

Schools?

Teachers are state or local employees, so schools are going to remain open.

But if the shutdown drags on, then any districts that rely on aid for things like textbooks or teacher salary could face some funding delays.

My monthly student loan payment is coming due in just a week or so.

Am I going to have to pay that if the government's shut down?

You sure will, Sean.

And that's because private companies service federal student loans and those companies will still be operational.

But a shutdown could impact borrowers who plan to attend school next year by delaying processing of the free application for federal student aid or FAFSA.

And what about the IRS?

Are taxes going to continue to be collected?

So the IRS has already been pretty strained this year from government layoffs.

If there's a shutdown, then they wouldn't be be able to verify income and social security numbers, and that's going to delay mortgages and other loan approvals, not to mention billions of dollars in tax refunds.

Ana, we've covered so much ground.

Is there anything else we're missing?

There's a couple other things I want to point out.

One is food and safety inspections.

There could be delays during a shutdown.

During the 2013 shutdown, the EPA halted inspection for 1,200 hazardous waste, drinking water, and chemical facility sites, and the FDA delayed 900 food and pharmaceutical inspections.

And then during the 2018-2019 shutdown, the FDA only restored some inspections for high-risk products.

Sounds bad.

Yeah, it doesn't seem good.

And then the National Institutes of Health would be prevented from processing any grant applications or admitting new patients.

So if folks have been listening to these different categories we've been talking about and thinking a lot of this doesn't apply to me, what would you say is the biggest concern for most Americans?

If a shutdown is short, it's going to mostly be an inconvenience.

But the longer that one drags on, the more that everyday systems from food assistance to air travel are going to be strained.

In the past, lawmakers have come to an agreement at the 11th hour, many, many times, to pass a stopgap to keep the government funding at the previous fiscal year's levels in order to keep negotiations going.

And right now, the two parties seem to be playing chicken once again.

Well, thank you, Ana, for keeping us up to speed on what is going on.

Sure thing.

Up next, we guide a listener through the next steps after successfully changing their financial habits.

But before we get into that, a reminder listener to send us your money questions.

Maybe you're wondering how you can stock up on food and supplies ahead of a potential government shutdown, or maybe you should buy a tent to become nomadic in the event that society collapses.

Whatever your question, leave us a voicemail or text us on the nerd hotline at 901-730-6373.

That's 901-730-NERD.

Or email us at podcast at nerdwallet.com.

In a moment, this episode's money question.

Stay with us.

We're back and we're answering your money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions.

On this episode of the podcast, we're answering a question from a listener named Kevin who sent us a text.

Here it goes.

Hey nerds, my name is Kevin from Los Angeles.

I've been going through some great financial habit changes.

I'm almost at my goal of three months of emergency fund expenses covered, but once I hit my goal, I want to start using the money to work for me.

I'm 30 years old and will want to know where I should start putting my money, whether it's investing in stocks, ETFs, or 401ks and IRAs.

I have about $600 a month I can invest.

I just don't know what's the best move going forward.

Thanks for answering my questions.

Love the podcast.

And to answer Kevin's question, Elizabeth and I are going to do a little role play.

I'll be Kevin and Elizabeth will be Elizabeth.

Okay, I'm getting into character.

Here we go.

Performing.

I'm now Kevin.

Welcome to the pod, Kevin.

Thanks, Elizabeth.

It's so great to be here and kind of surreal to talk with you after listening to you for so many hours.

Well, thank you so much for writing in.

We're always excited to hear from listeners.

So first of all, I want you to tell me a bit about yourself, Kevin.

So you wrote us, we know that you're 30.

Where do you live?

You live in Los Angeles.

What else should we know?

Yeah, I live in Los Angeles and I've been trying to get really good about hitting financial goals.

I've been hearing this podcast tell me I should have an emergency fund.

So like you read, I have three months in my emergency fund just about.

And I know that I should be doing better with things like saving for retirement, but I don't really know the best way to do that.

I also want to invest for like a house that I want to buy in a few years.

So I have this amount of money that I can allocate toward these different goals, but I'm not sure the best way to really do it or how I should be thinking about my goals.

So I would just love a little bit of guidance.

So one thing that stood out to me about your question is that you said there's been a shift in your financial habits.

So what were your financial habits like before you started having this $600 that you want to allocate somewhere?

So my main habit was just just putting all of that money into my emergency fund every single month.

And that felt really easy and nice to do.

It was straightforward.

I would just put the money into that account.

I knew I had this goal, but because I'm about there, I'm trying to put this money into different purposes.

So, I've honestly been going out a little more with my friends, and so that's taken a chunk out of my 600.

I've been putting some into some investing apps, but I'm just kind of playing with it and buying and selling individual stocks.

It kind of feels like a game to me, but I'm trying to work out a different way to manage this money long term.

So I'm kind of in flux with my habits.

They're a little bit up in the air at the moment.

Okay.

Well, I want to say that you're on track.

So amazing job for having three months or almost saving three months for an emergency fund.

Where are you right now with your retirement savings?

That's a great question.

I don't really know.

I know I should be putting some toward retirement.

I have an IRA that I opened a few years back and occasionally I'll put some money in there, but that's not really a strong habit.

It's more of like a flailing about sometimes where I'm like, oh, shoot, I should really be doing this.

And so I just drop some money into the account, but I don't have a good regular system built up for that.

I'm just not really sure how much I should even be having in my account at this point.

Like, what do you think about that?

How should I be managing my retirement savings right now?

Well, obviously I'm not a financial planner, but Sean is, but he's not here right now.

What I can say, though, is that at NerdWallet, we have this amazing hefty calculator that you can use to help you calculate that.

But what I'll do is I'll first talk you through kind of what you should be thinking through when you're trying to think about how much to save for retirement.

So the first thing that you want to do is you want to run the numbers.

Ask me how I run the numbers.

Okay.

How do you run the numbers, Elizabeth?

I haven't seen this calculator, but it sounds like it has a lot to offer.

So the first thing that you need to think about even before you start punching in numbers is what you think your life expectancy might be, your predicted spending in retirement.

I know that's really hard to figure out, but maybe you could say it's 80% of your pre-retirement income.

That may be a good benchmark to start with.

And you also want to think about your lifestyle preferences.

So do you think you're someone who's going to want to live it up in in retirement or are you more on the conservative side?

Yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot.

I really want to live to at least around 150 years old.

I think by that point I'll be at least half android.

So that's going to really increase my longevity.

But I imagine that getting to that point is going to be expensive because technology isn't cheap.

So I'm going to be living it up when I'm a robot and also in the lead up to that.

I really want to max out my existence.

Wow.

Okay.

So you're trying to live a long, long time and that's awesome.

However, you're going to need a lot of money.

I don't know how much I have exactly.

I would say maybe $20,000.

Well, when you do the things that I just mentioned, the next thing that you want to do is you want to multiply your projected monthly expenses based on those things that I mentioned by 12.

Okay.

Now, if you just need a benchmark to start with, because you're not sure how much you're going to need, I know that you want to live to 150, you can start by saving 10 to 15%

of your income.

every year okay your pre-tax income every year so that's what finance experts like sean who's not here today would usually recommend.

All right, that's a really helpful benchmark.

But I guess one thing I'm trying to think about is how I can make that a habit.

Cause I hear these numbers and I heard you guys talk about them before and they sound kind of nice, but how does that translate to like a daily action or like a monthly action that I can take?

Because I'm all about having really strong habits.

I read that book, Atomic Habits, and it totally changed my life.

But what does that mean for me on a regular basis?

I love that question.

And thank you for calling that out because I think sometimes as people who work in finance, throw around all these numbers and it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we know, but how do I actually apply that?

So, I think one of the easiest ways that you can go about that is by automating your savings.

I know, right?

So, how are you doing at the moment?

I know you said you're investing here, there, everywhere, but are you automating?

Are you just putting in whenever you have some extra money?

It's just kind of random.

One of the challenges that I face too is that I don't have a workplace that offers a retirement account, so I only really have access to something like an IRA.

And, you know, the contribution limits are kind of low on that.

And I just haven't set up a system to max them out each year.

Well, the beautiful thing about IRAs is that you can automate those payments too.

So what do you mean?

Yeah.

So you can go into your account, whatever you use.

I personally use Vanguard and I do have an IRA and I automate my contributions to that, I think, every other week.

So you can choose the cadence in which you contribute.

I would say.

in the spirit of being realistic, I think you said you have about $600 to allocate, allocate something that is realistic so that you're not maybe potentially overdrawing on your account or it doesn't end up being something that's not sustainable for you.

So you can use our nerd wallet calculator to see maybe how much that you want to start saving and then automate those payments.

So you did make a really good point, which is that IRAs do have a lower limit than let's say a 401k.

7,000 in 2025 is how much you can contribute.

So you can start with that.

And then depending on what you want to do, you can also contribute to a traditional brokerage account, right?

Okay.

Yeah, because I've been thinking because I have these really ambitious goals of becoming an Android and living to 150 years old, $7,000 a year savings is not going to get me there, I don't think.

So I just want to find a way to like jumpstart my savings and put as much as I can.

And even though I don't have access to a 401k, I'm kind of thinking of switching jobs even so I can use one of these accounts.

But is there another way where I can get something like a 401k, even if I don't have a job that offers it?

Well, first of all, you haven't also told us what you do for work.

I'm actually a robotics engineer.

Oh, wow.

So I'm kind of a freelance.

I do it a little bit on the black market.

And so I'm really into this stuff, but I'm not making a lot of money because I'm kind of experimenting with my 3D printer in my garage.

Or really, it's my parents' garage.

Good job on that.

I mean, I've never met someone who does that kind of work, but you do have the option of opening a solo 401k.

And that is typically ideal for business owners.

So that's something that you can consider and explore as well so that you can contribute more than you could to an IRA.

Oh, okay.

So yeah, I do have my business and it's like fully formed.

Like the paperwork is all proper with the IRS and all of that.

So I could actually open a 401k just with my own business.

Is that what you're saying?

Exactly.

You can do that and you can contribute to that.

I'm also, well, a semi-entrepreneur.

I work full-time, but I'm an entrepreneur as well.

And I also use what's called a SEP IRA.

That's another option that you can use.

And this is also for self-employed people in small businesses.

And you have a higher contribution limit than you would with the IRA as well.

And the good thing with these accounts is they can also help you to minimize your taxable income when you use them and you contribute them.

So that way it's a win-win.

You're contributing to increase your retirement savings.

and you can potentially lower your tax bill as well.

That is super, super helpful.

But one thing I'm trying to think about too is, you know, I I have the $600 a month that I can currently allocate for my goals and my different investing opportunities, but I have this other goal too that I really want to buy a house.

Like I said, I'm like, I'm kind of living in my parents' garage right now.

And I think they want me out.

So how should I think about that as it relates to my other goals?

Because they're kind of competing for my cash right now.

The thing that I love to say is that we don't necessarily have to focus on one goal at a time.

And I know $600 may not seem like a lot of money, but it also depends on your time horizon.

That's a big big factor, but you can pursue multiple goals at the same time.

So you can save for retirement and also focus on the goal of saving for a house as well.

But before we start jumping into the house business, where is your financial health in terms of your credit score, for example?

Because that's going to be a big one if you want to buy a house.

My credit score right now, I think it's like $7.52.

I just got approved for a pretty cool credit card.

So I'm excited about that.

And I make all my payments on time.

I know it's, you know, it's not 800 like you and Sean, but I want to get there eventually.

So, uh, but I think that's a fine score, right?

Isn't that good?

That is a really good score.

So it sounds like you've checked that box off, but other things that you want to do.

So let me backtrack and say one of the first steps when you're trying to buy a house is you want to think about your financial health because that's going to be a big part and play into you getting a loan, which I assume that you want to get.

So in addition to credit score, you need to consider your debt.

And also, you're already on track with this, your three to six month emergency fund.

So how is your debt?

Do you have any debt?

Okay, so here's the thing.

You know, I told you I have this robotics company.

I took out a really, really big loan.

It's like $500,000.

And the term of it is 80 years because they know I'm going to be living so long.

The payments are affordable, but it's kind of a lot.

And I've heard that like the debt to income ratio can be important with like getting approved for a mortgage.

And for me, it's kind of out of whack right now.

I have a lot of debt compared to how much money I'm making.

Oh, wow.

Wow.

Wow.

You have a very interesting financial story happening here.

It just keeps unfolding, you know?

Oh, okay.

Well, I mean, with all of this, wow, debt that you have,

you might want to consider paying that down, especially if it's high interest debt before you look into buying a house.

But I have good news for you.

You know, we don't necessarily have to rush to buy the house now, right?

So, so we can make this a long-term goal and we can maybe focus on tightening up that debt because that is going to affect how much you get approved for.

You know, I'm kind of thinking about you mentioned time horizon and mine, mine is kind of different from most people's because of how long I'm going to be living.

So I'm actually not planning on retiring until 100.

So I'll have 50 years of retirement.

So how does that change?

what we've been talking about?

Well, I will tell you the good news is you have a longer time to do all of these things.

So it might even be comparable to someone who started saving in their 20s.

If you're starting now at 30 and you're living to 150.

So if you ask me, Sean, I think you're, no, Kevin,

I think your future is very bright.

But on a serious note, I will say that in addition to making sure that your financial health is in a good spot when you buy your house at, I don't know, 100 years old, you also want to research the housing market.

You want to come up with a savings plan.

And in that savings plan, you need to calculate how much you're going to need for your down payment, your closing costs, your emergency savings for housing repairs.

Sean can tell you those are super expensive.

And you want to make sure that you're not house poor.

So you still have enough wiggle room to live your life in addition to maintaining your home.

And so going back to that theme of habits that we've been talking about, how do you think I can make a habit or what would be a good habit that you'd recommend so I can begin to have enough for a down payment and also hit my retirement goals?

Like again, my time horizon is kind of different than most people, but I know that slow and steady wins the race with a lot of these things.

So what specific actions do you think I can take?

Is it more kind of automating deposits?

Yeah, I would say one, automate your deposits and you sound like you have a good hold on understanding where your money is going.

And then because you have such lofty goals, even though you have a longer time horizon, you also want to see if there's any room in your budget.

And this is where looking at your finances regularly will help you to see if there's more money that can go towards other goals.

So, the more efficiently that you're spending your money, the faster that you can achieve your goal of buying a house at 100 and retiring and living to 150.

That also means that you're going to need to be on top of your health

and you're going to need to budget for healthcare to live that long as well.

So, yeah, I would say the main thing is just stay on top of your finances, pay attention to where your money is going, and and automate your savings.

Okay, that's super helpful.

And so something else I've been thinking about too is how to invest and what to invest in, because, you know, I'm going to be dealing with inflation for a long, long time.

And you and Sean have said before that investing is kind of the best way to stay ahead of inflation, but I don't really know what to invest in.

I've heard that index funds are pretty solid to get some diversity, but what do you think I should look for in an index fund?

So index funds can be a good place to start, right?

Obviously, I'm not a financial advisor, but the good thing about index funds is they expose you to different kind of stocks within a single purchase.

So think of it if it is a stock-based index fund of like purchasing a whole bunch of stocks that are all inside of a basket, right?

So you get a lot of exposure that way.

You can also build a balanced and diversified portfolio.

And also another upside is they can be cheaper to buy and easier to research than stock picking.

Okay.

Okay.

So index funds can be a good consideration.

One of the things that you want to pay attention to though are expense ratios.

So, those are the fees that each shareholder is charged for investing in that index fund.

You also want to think about its performance history.

So, you want to examine the fund's returns over different timeframes.

That could be one years, five years, or 10 years.

And you want to look for one with low tracking errors.

So, this measures how closely the fund's returns mirror the returns of its benchmark index.

And that, for example, could be the SP 500.

So, those are three or four things to think about.

So, index funds from what you said seem like a really good option, but I've also heard that mutual funds are good too, but they seem kind of the same to me.

How are they different, if at all?

They are pretty similar.

So I would say the primary difference between an index fund and a mutual fund is that index funds tend to invest in a basket of securities, like I said earlier, that aim to mirror the performance of a specific index, like the SP 500.

But a mutual fund invests in a continually changing list of investments that are selected by the investment manager.

So that might be just different companies that aren't necessarily tied to one index, like the Dow Jones or what have have you.

Exactly.

Okay.

And also mutual funds, sometimes the average fees can be higher, whereas index funds, the fees can be lower.

So it saves you some money.

But they both will give me diversification, which is super important, right?

Exactly.

So, and I would say I'm someone who doesn't like stock picking.

So I feel like with both index funds and mutual funds, they save you time as well.

So you don't have to sit down and start doing all the research to figure out which stocks are best to invest in.

That's good because I don't have a lot of time to be thinking about specific stocks because this whole robotics company is taking up so much of my time.

I just need to make sure my money is working for me.

I want it to be working for you too, Kevin, so that you can buy your home in 50 years and hopefully retire at a good age.

Yeah.

Yeah, me too.

All right, Kevin.

So based on this conversation, how do you think that you are going to approach your goals of buying a house?

What are you going to do in terms of your retirement investments and savings?

Well, first thing I'm going to do is play with that calculator because I want to see how much I can contribute on a regular basis and what that might grow to over my really long time horizon.

And then I'm going to set up deposits into my retirement account.

I'm probably going to open one of those solo 401ks or maybe a SEP IRA, like you mentioned.

And because I'm all about automating, I'm going to also set up some deposits into probably a taxable brokerage account and invest in some mutual funds and index funds and just have things writing in the background so I can focus on getting my business off the ground and getting out of my parents' garage.

Oh, that sounds like a dream come true, Kevin.

And I just want to say one more thing, Kevin.

Even though you're in your parents' garage, you're doing a great job.

Okay.

Even though you have half a million dollars in debt, you're doing a great job.

Okay.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

And you're doing a great job because you have a strategy.

And I think that's the hardest part or habit to build in terms of getting your finances on track.

Sometimes people get all lost in the weeds on where to start.

And it sounds like you're on your way to having a framework that you can work with.

Well, Elizabeth, thank you so much for all your help today.

It's been really reassuring.

And if you ever want to become an android, you know, hit me up.

I'll give you some information and technology.

Oh, no.

The world is enough of an exciting ride.

I do not want to live that long, but thanks for the offer.

That's fair.

Okay.

Thank you.

And

okay, I'm back.

Sean's returned.

Kevin's gone.

Android, Kevin.

That was so fun.

And Sean has a very wild imagination, as you guys can see.

I like a good science fiction book.

That's for sure.

Well, that's all we have for this episode.

Remember, listener, that we are here to answer your money questions.

So turn to the nerds and call or text us your questions at 901-730-6373.

That's 901-730-NERD.

You can also email us at podcast at nerdwallet.com.

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Here's our brief disclaimer: we are not your financial or investment advisors.

This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances.

This episode was produced by Tess Bigland and Anna Helhofsky.

Hilary Georgie helps with editing.

Nick Charismy makes our audio.

And a humongous thank you to NerdWallet's editors for all their help.

And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds.