How to Budget Better With Your Partner and Why Scam Calls Are Surging

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Speaker 4 Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast, where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Sean Piles.

Speaker 5 And I'm Elizabeth Ayola. Later this episode, we'll be talking about strategies to figure out a household budget when you and your partner are not on the same page about how to manage your finances.

Speaker 4 But first, our weekly Money News Roundup, where we break down the latest in the world of finance to help you be smarter with your money. Our news colleague Ana Hilhaski is back.

Speaker 4 And Ana, we're feeling a little bit scammy and spammy today.

Speaker 6 I don't know about you, but a couple of weeks ago, I began getting an alarming number of spam calls and text messages.

Speaker 6 And I started hearing similar things from friends and then family and then coworkers. And there was this one day where my boyfriend was getting calls every half hour.
Like it was ridiculous, no joke.

Speaker 6 But have either of you ever noticed anything weird?

Speaker 4 I probably get two to three spam calls every single day. And I had a period over the summer where I was getting calls every hour on the hour from various places.

Speaker 4 Eventually it tapered off, but I still have this consistent stalker who calls me two to three times a day and I just never pick up, but yet they keep calling me.

Speaker 5 That sounds jarring. I think the scammers know that I never answer the phone, so they don't bother calling me.
So I only get text messages and they think I need a job.

Speaker 5 So they must not have heard the podcast.

Speaker 6 So even if this is all anecdotal evidence, I realize there had to be some reason for the recent uptick anyway.

Speaker 6 So due to the government shutdown, the Federal Trade Commission has suspended the National Do Not Call Registry and its fraud reporting platforms.

Speaker 6 And that means that people can't report fraud or block calls through the FTC. And it's also not taking any enforcement action.

Speaker 6 And that's left people in a potentially vulnerable position, not just an annoying one.

Speaker 6 So the government shutdown is giving scammers the opportunity to exploit public confusion and steal personal information, money, or both.

Speaker 6 For more insight into the types of scams going on right now and how to avoid falling prey, we're joined today by Eva Velasquez, CEO of the Identity Theft Resource Center.

Speaker 6 Eva, welcome back to Smart Money.

Speaker 7 Oh, I'm so happy to be here with everybody again. And I'm really looking forward to educating some folks because it's really bad out there right now.

Speaker 6 So let's get into it. Can you give us a snapshot of what kind of scams are most common right now during the shutdown?

Speaker 7 Well, you mentioned some of the reasons and some of the things broadly that are impacting this. What I'm really concerned about is this uncertainty about what's open, what what isn't.

Speaker 7 Am I going to get my government benefits? What's available to me? This is a huge opportunity for the bad actors. They love to capitalize on uncertainty and consumer confusion and public confusion.

Speaker 7 And so we're seeing and hearing already about a lot more imposter scams, so government imposter scams.

Speaker 7 And we're also, it's starting to trickle in, but I'm very concerned about more of the sort of financial aid grants.

Speaker 7 We have something, some tools, some benefits, some process that is going to help bridge the gap that the shutdown is causing for you, whether it's targeted towards, you know, furloughed employees.

Speaker 7 Oh, we have a benefit program for people who are trying to get government goods and services. They're all scams.

Speaker 7 If a government agency is closed, they're closed, no one can get in touch with them. If you can't get in touch with them, there's no one that has a special in.

Speaker 7 But I think the longer this drags on and the more desperate people become, because it is creating a hardship for people, they are going to be more apt to let their hope override their logical brain when they're looking at these types of offers.

Speaker 7 And to your point, they do feel like the sheriff's not in town right now. So let's just absolutely deluge everybody with

Speaker 7 you didn't mention emails. I'm getting a ton of emails.

Speaker 6 What are some of the more clever or dangerous scams out there right now, or really both? And what are some of the red flags that people could be looking for?

Speaker 7 It is such a challenge right now because with deep fakes and voice cloning and the use of AI to make the really letter-perfect, I'll call them pitches, but they're, you know, they're fraudulent pitches.

Speaker 7 Emails, text messages, even spoofed websites. I am encouraging people to no longer rely on their own radar.
Oh, I can look for the red flags and I can detect a spoofed website or a phony email.

Speaker 7 It's gotten so much harder. So I am telling people, go to the source.
Go to the source and verify. You don't need to engage in whatever that communication is.

Speaker 7 If it's an email, you don't need to respond directly to that email. You can go to the source.
Same with text or a phone call. In the context of government agencies, go to the source.

Speaker 7 And if you find that you cannot get in touch with the source that government agency is closed that's your answer if they're closed they're not contacting you about a grant or about another program or telling you to to move your money to another bank

Speaker 7 we're definitely seeing a lot of the government and law enforcement type imposter scams where they're telling people your your identity and your money are in danger being used by a criminal.

Speaker 7 You need to move it. They're not going to tell you that.
That's just not going to happen. That's an outright scam.

Speaker 7 But if they're purportedly calling from a department that is closed, well, then you know. That's your verification.
They're not open. I went to the source.
I got my answer.

Speaker 7 I don't need to engage with this.

Speaker 6 So say that you have received these calls, text messages, email, whatever it is. and you have been scammed.
What are some of the warning signs for you to detect that that has happened to you?

Speaker 6 And what can you do if you have been the victim?

Speaker 7 It gets really challenging for people because they want to trust and they think they've built a relationship oftentimes with this person, whether it's, oh, they're a law enforcement agent or they're a new friend, it's a relationship or even a romantic partner.

Speaker 7 I always tell people when you start exchanging things like money and your identity credentials, so things like accounts, logins, usernames, and passwords, those types of things, that's a red flag.

Speaker 7 And if you find that you have shared information or you have parted with your money, that's where we have to take a look at specifically what happened and what the pathways were.

Speaker 7 And that's why places like the Identity Theft Resource Center exist. We provide that free one-on-one direct recovery service.
to people.

Speaker 7 We give them the advice and the pathway that they need to recover their identity. I want to build really clear expectations here.

Speaker 7 Most of the time in a scam, if you've parted with your money, that money is gone.

Speaker 7 The scammers know different payment methods have different levels of protection for people.

Speaker 7 If you pay with a credit card, you can usually dispute the charge on a credit card if you don't get the goods or the services. They know that.
That's why they don't want.

Speaker 7 your credit card they don't want to use your credit card information they don't want you to pay them they might ask you to get a cash advance and that can be very different

Speaker 7 so i I would encourage people, if you do feel like you're the victim of a scam, you can contact the ITRC. We're not affected by the government closure.
We had to let people know.

Speaker 7 We're not a government agency. We're a charity organization.
So, we are still operating and helping people and taking those calls. And we take a look at the specifics.

Speaker 7 What was the platform that was used? What was the hook? What were you told? What was the payment method? What data about yourself did you share?

Speaker 7 And then we can start looking at, okay, how do we start to restore that identity and start working on recovery?

Speaker 6 And are you expecting that scams, at least government-related scams, would decrease once the shutdown ends? Could there be lingering effects or scammers just going to kind of turn to the next thing?

Speaker 7 You know, we liken fraud to squeezing a balloon. Once you clamp down in one area, you know, it just moves to another.
And so we've definitely seen that.

Speaker 7 I guess my, if I have to get out my crystal ball, I think the government scams will go down slightly because we'll have some additional clarity.

Speaker 7 But as we've seen in the past, and I'll use unemployment benefits and the pandemic, pre-pandemic, unemployment identity theft existed and it was maybe 1% of our calls of the case types that we would get.

Speaker 7 And then during the pandemic, you know, it skyrocketed. It became number one.
We were getting thousands of calls. but it has not gone down to that pre-pandemic baseline.
They found an in.

Speaker 7 They found something that was lucrative, not as lucrative after the enhanced benefits sunset, but still they're like, but there's still money there. We're still going to go for it.

Speaker 7 So I think we'll see something similar where we'll see the increase, a drop, but we're going to see an elevated baseline.

Speaker 6 Do you have any other advice for consumers? We're in a lot of uncertainty right now. How can people protect their information?

Speaker 6 Are there alternate tools or strategies to block those calls or texts or otherwise report scams?

Speaker 7 I think for right now, because people are so overwhelmed, my advice is going to be you don't have to engage with all of this incoming information. You have a choice.

Speaker 7 So you don't have to answer that phone call. You don't have to respond to that email.
You don't have to respond to that. text message.
It's okay.

Speaker 7 And if you do answer a phone call, remember the control is yours. You don't have to stay on the line.

Speaker 7 Even if they're yelling at you, telling you don't hang up, you can say, no, no, no, I'm ending this conversation.

Speaker 7 And one of the best ways we can protect ourselves is to allow ourselves the space to be thoughtful. One of the prime ways that these bad guys get to us is by engaging our emotional brain.

Speaker 7 You don't have to engage. You can be thoughtful.
And then, of course, if you are faced with a decision or you're not sure what to do, phone a friend, call a trusted relative, contact the ITRC.

Speaker 7 There are still resources available to people to help guide them and help them make the decisions that are best for them and hopefully get them out of that spinning of, oh, I have to engage with this right now.

Speaker 6 Don't keep it to yourself, basically. Yeah.

Speaker 6 Okay. Eva Velasquez, thank you so much for coming back.

Speaker 7 My pleasure to be here. Hope we help some folks today.

Speaker 4 Up next, we answer a listener's question about how to manage household finances when your budget strategy is different from your partner's.

Speaker 4 But before we get into that, a reminder to send us your money questions.

Speaker 5 Maybe you need help sorting out your holiday budget, or you're set on buying a house next year, but aren't sure if your finances are ready for that expense.

Speaker 5 Maybe you're wondering what this extended shutdown might mean for your finances. Whatever money question you have, we want to receive them.

Speaker 5 So leave us a voicemail or text us on the nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-NERD.
You can send us an email too at podcast at nerdwallet.com.

Speaker 4 In a moment, this episode's money question.

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Speaker 5 We're back, and I'm not sure why I always have to sing that, but we're here again to answer your money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions.

Speaker 5 Now, this episode's question is a special one because it comes from a fellow nerd named Jay Leong.

Speaker 5 Welcome Jay.

Speaker 4 Hey. Hey, welcome to Smart Money Jay.
Thanks. It's exciting to be here.
Let's get to it. So we put out a call for nerds to send us their money questions.

Speaker 4 Can you talk with us a bit about what you initially wrote in to us about?

Speaker 4 So what I wrote in was, how do I get on the same page as my spouse who thinks very different from me when it comes to budgeting.

Speaker 4 My spouse is very procedural in her work, and it shows in the way that we try to solve problems.

Speaker 5 Wait, you told us what your spouse is like, but what do you like? So, she's procedural, and what are you like, Jay?

Speaker 4 I'm an engineer, and I can solve problems in many different ways. I would say I like spreadsheets, I can do spreadsheets in many different ways.
There's different aspects of how to budget.

Speaker 4 Like, we'll just look at credit cards, we don't even look at individual transactions or categories or anything, just credit cards, how much is there.

Speaker 4 So, I'm very, here's data, we can use it, And we couldn't get on the same page of how to use data.

Speaker 4 So I want to hear more about what you mean when you say your wife is procedural. Is she an attorney? No, so she's a lab technologist at a hospital.

Speaker 4 So running tests on blood and making sure people don't die. So there's a set way of how to do things.
So her brain works that way. She has a mindset of I need to do it this way.

Speaker 4 Any other way doesn't make sense.

Speaker 5 And what is her way as it translates to you guys' budgeting? So you said you like to use spreadsheets.

Speaker 5 It sounds like you just want to know the large sum of what you're spending and make sense of that data. So what does she like to do?

Speaker 4 With any type of problem, I would say you try to talk about it one way. And if it doesn't work, you make it simpler.
And my spouse had said, I want to see every single transaction and I want a log.

Speaker 4 every single month with money coming in, money going out. And I gave her that.
And it's very hard to maintain. So we stopped doing that.
So, what are you doing on an ongoing basis now?

Speaker 4 It seems like you both are kind of agreeing to disagree about how you would like to manage your finances, yet you are continuing to manage your finances together. Yeah.

Speaker 4 So, what we're doing now is, I would say,

Speaker 4 are we okay?

Speaker 4 So, every once in a while, I check our balance and is it okay?

Speaker 4 And the answer is hopefully, yes.

Speaker 4 The answer is hopefully yes. If the the answer is no, take money from there and put it there.

Speaker 5 Oh, so let's hear a bit about these pots. So what do you all have? Do you have a single account where you throw all your money into? Do you have multiple accounts? What are we working with?

Speaker 4 So we have about five checking accounts that are actively used or maybe savings accounts because they have higher interest.

Speaker 4 And they are the car fund for repairs, for registration, insurance.

Speaker 4 X a month goes into the car fund to cover all of that. We have a school fund, which is the kids' tuition.
We have a checking account.

Speaker 4 We have a mortgage bank account that's separate for mortgage and personal checking accounts for her and I. I think that's about it for the bank accounts.

Speaker 4 For the credit cards, we have the Costco credit card. And recently, I just got a travel card and I'm putting everything possible on that travel card.

Speaker 5 Well, Chay, it sounds like you're pretty organized. And Sean can relate because he has, is it 14 bank accounts, Sean?

Speaker 4 No, I have nine, maybe 10. Okay, that was close.

Speaker 4 Checking and savings accounts, but you're doing what we call the savings bucket strategy or sinking funds where you have different accounts for different purposes.

Speaker 4 And I really like organizing my finances that way because I know, okay, yeah, this is the money for my cars registration. This is the money that I have set aside for fund spending.

Speaker 4 This is my emergency fund here. And that way I know that I have all these things taken care of.
Can you talk with us about how you're contributing to these accounts?

Speaker 4 Do you have direct deposit or are you just moving funds over as you want? I only direct deposit into two. So the mortgage account, and then the rest of it goes into the joint checking.

Speaker 4 And then from there, I have transfers because it's internal to the same bank. So I transferred monthly to the car fund, to the school fund, vacation fund.
Oh, there's another account. I forgot it.

Speaker 4 Vacation fund. So those are all recurring transfers.

Speaker 5 What about the system that you currently have? Do you feel is not working?

Speaker 4 We are overspenders. We maybe eat out too much.
We'll buy the kids too many things. Our house is a reflection of that.
We have a mess of a house because we have so many things.

Speaker 4 And so what's not working for me is the amount of transactions that we do seem unchecked, unguarded. We want to buy something, we buy it.

Speaker 4 And I want to get a hold on that, like having an entertainment budget and kind of capping it.

Speaker 4 Are you going into the red and racking up debt each month, or you just find that you're spending more than you would like to? I feel like I make too much money and it's all gone.

Speaker 5 Never a good feeling.

Speaker 4 Maybe one month out of the year, we're going to the red and it will be like, oh, we got to kind of calm down, but that lasts for like a week.

Speaker 4 You talked earlier about how your approach to problem solving is trying to make things as simple as possible for you.

Speaker 4 One of the simplest ways to budget is something we talk about a lot on Smart Money and at NerveWallet in general, the 50, 30, 20 budget. Are you familiar with this? And have you tried it?

Speaker 4 I am familiar with it. Let me try to repeat it to see if I do know.
Yes, this is a pop quiz. As a NerdWallet employee, tell us what the 50%, the 30, and the 20 are.

Speaker 4 So 50% is your needs, 30%, wants, 20% save. That's pretty much savings and additional debt payments.
You got it.

Speaker 4 So it's a really streamlined, easy way to categorize your finances with the goal of having balance to where your money is going. So this confuses me a little bit.

Speaker 4 Because saving 20%,

Speaker 4 does that include like your 401k contributions and stuff? Yes. Okay.

Speaker 5 Since you're aware of this framework, is there a reason that you haven't tried it?

Speaker 4 Yes, the categorizing thing. So

Speaker 4 there's the NerdWallet app, which you can categorize your transactions. If something gets miscategorized, you can do it.
But I've never effectively used a budgeting app.

Speaker 4 My wife's idea of watching every transaction became too cumbersome. It was hard to maintain.
So, my approach was to split it up.

Speaker 4 So, look at a month, find the reoccurring stuff, the need or wants, right? So, the mortgage, the utility bills, insurance, all those things, and figure that out.

Speaker 4 So, I was trying to identify the needs and surfacing that, and it wasn't taking. So, I think I might have tried to do 50-30-20, like I started it.

Speaker 4 So, I guess I need help going from zero to one for 50-30-20. It seems like you're trying to build the habit and getting the habit to stick is what's hard.
I'm not sure I'm even there yet.

Speaker 5 Yeah, it sounds like you guys don't even have a system in place yet. And then, so you can't build the habit from the system.

Speaker 5 And also, I'm curious about whether you guys actually have financial goals because you guys are a team, right? You're married and you're working on your finances together.

Speaker 5 So, it's important that you find a way to get on the same page. So, have you guys thought about maybe identifying your money languages to start with?

Speaker 5 Have you had conversations around your money values and your money languages? Maybe even get a little deeper in your money traumas to understand why you both approach finances the way that you do?

Speaker 5 Because that can be a good starting point.

Speaker 4 Yeah. So money goals, I kind of raised my eyebrows at that one because I don't have money goals.
I would challenge that. And I say you, you probably do, but you might not even be aware of it.

Speaker 4 Because one of your goals, it seems like you enjoy spending money on your kids and on recreation and on vacations the fact that you have a vacation fund that means that you have a financial goal to go on vacations so getting to what Elizabeth was saying about your values and your priorities that's really how you can determine what your goals are the financial values that you talked about I don't know what a financial value is So your financial values essentially are what you value when it comes to money.

Speaker 5 Like Sean just pointed out, you guys like to go on vacation. So that means you might like to spend your money on vacation.

Speaker 5 So you may think that, hey, money is supposed to be for enjoyment or to create memories and we all have different values around money right so it's just thinking about what your life values are and kind of how money ties into that and helps you to live out those values okay

Speaker 4 and also one one area i'll point you to if you want to dig into your values more is how you're spending your money already because people often say that budgets are value statements so where you're directing your money currently is a reflection of your values so maybe that is eating out or getting takeout.

Speaker 4 That means that you value having food delivered to your door and not cooking it. I can't do it.
Right. So you have a number of figurines behind you, Jay.

Speaker 4 So it seems like you value like fun action figures and pop culture and video games and things like that.

Speaker 4 So you can look at where you're spending your money already and kind of extrapolate from there what your values are, even if you're not fully aware of them.

Speaker 4 I think I need help figuring out my financial values. I think that might be a problem.

Speaker 5 Well, you know, problems have solutions.

Speaker 5 And this brings me to a very, very, very romantic thing that you can do with your wife, a money date so this might be a cool starting point for both of you to start with money dates you can decide the cadence at which you want to do them and these can be really

Speaker 5 I find them fun, may not be the right word for everyone, but these can be an insightful place for you to learn more about your money values, to map out, maybe just start with one or two financial goals, because if you don't know what your goals are, then it's hard to figure out how to get there.

Speaker 5 But if you outline what your financial goals are first, then you can worry more about the system that you're going to to use, whether that's a spreadsheet, whether you're going to test different budgeting apps together to find one that works best for you or whatever other budgeting system that you want to try.

Speaker 5 So money dates can be a good way to do that. And I do want to point out money dates are not a time for people to start pointing fingers or being judgy.

Speaker 5 It's a time to really just listen, shouldn't be too long, to look at what you're spending.

Speaker 5 So you guys can maybe go through that account statement together and say, hey, it looks like you value X, Y, Z. because you seem to spend a lot on this and I seem to spend a lot on that.

Speaker 5 And then you have your financial goals and then you can figure out, you know, how to achieve those goals.

Speaker 5 And it might mean that, hey, I value this, but I'm going to cut back on some figurines this month and you value that.

Speaker 5 And we're going to cut out some Uber Eats so that we can achieve the goals that we set together.

Speaker 4 So we've done that.

Speaker 4 We looked at. Oh.

Speaker 4 So the checking account transactions was what she had wanted and we were looking at, which included a lump sum of credit card payments, right?

Speaker 4 So for the target card payment, the joint credit card payment.

Speaker 4 So everything in the sense of what the money was being spent on was slightly hidden that's when i went through the individual transactions and found what our needs are and then i had just started foraying into categorizing entertainment food

Speaker 4 and i i just got so defeated because there were so many transactions i don't know if because there were so many transactions i think I was looking at what we were tracking, like, oh, the target credit card bill was 400 this month what was that oh i i did this it always had turned into what i experienced was

Speaker 4 why why do why do we have to not be spending money i don't want to not spend money well you said something earlier about money trauma which made me think a little bit my wife grew up i guess the second child the baby of the family And I think she might have been spoiled and just gets whatever she wants.

Speaker 5 I think the biggest thing, again, with the values is to try not to judge, because we all have different types of backgrounds, but to figure out, I guess, understand the behavior.

Speaker 5 So this is maybe why the person is spending like this or approaches finances like this and see how you guys can meet in the middle.

Speaker 5 And again, having that shared financial goal can be the thing that ties you together and helps you to compromise on both sides.

Speaker 4 If I was trying to move forward with effectively budgeting, it sounds like finding the financial values is the good first step. What do we value? What do we want to have money for?

Speaker 4 What do we need to have money for?

Speaker 5 You're kind of doing some parts already, right? Because you're kind of bucketing your money because you have some.

Speaker 5 It sounds like you have a car fund goal too, because you have an account for car expenses.

Speaker 5 So it's just kind of getting on the same page first and then tracking your expenses and then allocating money towards those different things.

Speaker 5 But it's important that you know where your money is going every month so that you can achieve those goals.

Speaker 4 I had a spreadsheet of a monthly breakdown of the needs. And I think the needs were pushing us closer to, say, instead of 50, 30, 20,

Speaker 4 like

Speaker 4 75, 25.

Speaker 4 It's hard. So that 401k is pre-taxed.
I don't see it. It is 10%

Speaker 4 401k contribution. Okay.
I guess that counts. So I guess we're like 80, 10, 10.

Speaker 4 If you find that your income and your expenditures aren't balanced in this 50, 30, 30, 20 way, that's a time to dig into your expenses because sometimes we make what initially started as a want, like maybe an expensive car or like fun entertainment, and we turn it into a need by having some sort of contractual obligation for it, or we just assume that this is how we need to have our lives funded.

Speaker 4 So the want becomes a need. If you are spending a lot more of your income on these needs, look into those areas and see how you can trim the costs there.

Speaker 4 You mentioned that you have your insurance payments that you've tracked in the spreadsheet too.

Speaker 4 That can sometimes be a great place to save money, especially if you haven't shopped around for something like car insurance or home insurance in the past year.

Speaker 4 We know that insurance companies don't reward us for being loyal to them. In fact, they might charge you more for not shopping around.

Speaker 4 So spend a little bit of time to try to get some rates so you can maybe save money there, for example. And the killer for us, we did this to ourselves, is the kids' activities.
Oh, I would know. Yeah.

Speaker 4 I would know. That sounds, I mean, as a non-parent, to me, some of those are probably a want, right?

Speaker 5 Yeah, that's a tough one. That's a tough one because you feel like for their development, you need to do it.
But do you? I don't know. So it's a gray area sometimes.

Speaker 4 Give them a cardboard box and some string. They'll figure it out.

Speaker 4 They love playing with cardboard boxes.

Speaker 5 I know, I know.

Speaker 5 But yeah, I would also say I'm thinking back to a point that you made trying to answer the crux of your question in terms of how you guys can get on the same page with different approaches to budgeting.

Speaker 5 And I know that you mentioned that you try the apps, but you weren't able to keep up with them. And sometimes tracking with a spreadsheet can take up too much time.

Speaker 5 So maybe you guys can consider, because the app may be able to meet both of your needs, right?

Speaker 5 Because it helps track your expenses, especially if you use ones that you link to all of your bank accounts. Then it will track every single thing for you.

Speaker 5 And depending on the app you use, you get your pretty little pictures, which can help you, who seems like a bigger picture thinker, just to get the raw data in terms of how much are we spending each month in each category.

Speaker 5 So I don't know what your main impediment was to using the apps, whether it was not filling out all the banking information or whatever it was.

Speaker 5 That might be a way to basically both save time and also track all your expenses in a detailed way.

Speaker 4 There's one app that is really popular for couples because it's basically designed for couples to balance their money together called Monarch Money. Have you played with that one at all?

Speaker 4 I've seen the ads. It's a stack-based thing.
So it's like money categories.

Speaker 4 Maybe I'll try it.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I think it's worth playing around with it.

Speaker 4 And I mean, if you really want to go super basic too, you could just have a notes app on your phone where for a month you track every single piece of money that's coming in or out of your life.

Speaker 4 That is a recommended way by some financial planners just to really get a grip on where exactly your money is going.

Speaker 4 And you might be surprised by what you're spending your money on and how it does or doesn't align with your values.

Speaker 4 I did this a couple of years back, and it was pretty transformative in terms of me allocating my spending. And I found myself a lot less eager to pull out my credit card to buy random crap afterward.

Speaker 4 So that I think would help both you and your wife to sort of get on the same page around seeing exactly where your money is going.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I think that's a really great exercise. And with the tools now, so like with an app, you could get every single transaction, you could copy and paste it.

Speaker 4 But I'll say there's something that's really powerful in doing it manually yourself, because you have to take an action every time you spend your money. It makes you very conscious of your spending.

Speaker 4 You're saying to physically write something every time you spend money. However, you want to write it.
You could have a notes app in your phone.

Speaker 4 You could have a piece of paper, a little notebook that you carry with you. But writing it down, you say what the transaction was, the amount it was.

Speaker 4 Some people like to add how they were feeling at the moment. You could maybe put in if this was a need or a want, because it seems like you were sorting through what those are for you.

Speaker 4 But for 30 days, try that exercise and see how you feel about your spending and if you have a better understanding with your wife of where all your money is going. You need to put in some work.

Speaker 4 Something has to give, right? You're at this point where you realize that you don't have the system that you want. You're going to have to make some changes here.

Speaker 4 It's like we talk about financial trauma and therapy, and therapy is work and so is getting a better grip on your finances. You'll have to put in some labor.

Speaker 5 And then I just had one more follow-up question. I'm curious about what you guys's budgeting system is individually.
So, is your policy everybody can just spend all the money in the account?

Speaker 5 Do you give yourself separate budgets? How does that work for you all?

Speaker 4 So, there is supposed to be separate checking accounts. We each have less than 5,000 in in a checking account that's used as you want.

Speaker 4 The lines get blurred for is this my want, my need, or a joint want or joint need.

Speaker 5 Well, definitely sounds like you guys could do with lots of money conversations so that you can get on the same page. And I believe in you, you can do it.
And it's okay if it's awkward at first.

Speaker 5 It'll get better with time. And, you know, 10 minutes a week, hopefully, to fit.
That seems little, but just some minutes to fit into your schedule.

Speaker 5 And as Sean said, you just have to make it a priority and try, put some effort in.

Speaker 4 So, what are you thinking of the advice so far? And what do you think your next steps might be? The thing that really stuck with me is financial values. I never thought about them as values.

Speaker 4 I guess you could interchange it with financial goals, but financial values and goals, I haven't thought about them in a while. Another thing that you said, wants versus needs, you know,

Speaker 4 a lot of times people turn their wants into needs.

Speaker 4 And that's something that happens and blows the 50-30-20 out the the window.

Speaker 4 I keep thinking about 50-30-20 because it's so simple, yet so hard to accomplish. And I will try again.
And I like the idea of writing down every single transaction. Like, why not?

Speaker 4 I like to take not five seconds, maybe 15 seconds, because I like adding more things. Like you said, why write if it was a want, write a little note about it.

Speaker 4 How are you feeling when you made this purchase? I like that.

Speaker 5 Yeah. And I just want to emphasize, Jay, that this is all very normal.
I have gone through several types of budgeting systems.

Speaker 5 I have times where I'm a stellar budgeter and other times where I suck, to be frank. Experimenting is okay.
Trying different things is okay.

Speaker 5 Just about being persistent and you're already one step ahead because you're aware of what needs to change and you're trying to find a solution to it.

Speaker 4 Jay, thank you so much for coming on and sharing a lot about your relationships and your spending with us.

Speaker 4 Keep us posted on what you and your wife try out, what works for you, where you decide to make some changes. And hopefully we can talk about this again again soon.
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4 I'll be back with the success story. Yes, we'll check in.

Speaker 4 Thanks so much, Jay. Cool.
Thank you. That's all we have for this episode.
Remember, listener, that we are here to answer your money questions.

Speaker 4 So turn to the nerds and call or text us your questions at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-NERD.
You can also email us at podcast at nerdwallet.com.

Speaker 5 If you'd like to be considered for our budget rehab segment, where we go through your budget with a fine-tooth comb, then fill out the application form in today's show notes.

Speaker 5 Join us next time to hear the first episode of our two-part open enrollment series.

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Speaker 4 Here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial or investment advisors.

Speaker 4 This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances.

Speaker 5 This episode was produced by Tess Wiglin and Ana Hilhoski. Hilary Georgie helped with editing, Nick Charismy mixed our audio, and a big thank you to NerdWallet's editors for all their help.

Speaker 4 And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds.

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