#107: Beyoncé’s Dad Shares His Success Blueprint: Mathew Knowles Interview

Speaker 1 You know, in 2011, that Beyonce decided to go a different way as far as having you as a manager or whatnot. How were you able to handle that?

Speaker 1 I'm sure that was really tough for you, both as a manager and as a father.

Speaker 2 Well, it was certainly tough, Chris.

Speaker 1 Does it get old being referred to as Beyonce's dad, or is that totally cool and you're just super proud of her?

Speaker 2 I'm cool with it, man. I have a lot of gratitude to Chris to be able to have architect Beyoncé's career and be her father.
Man, I'm quite grateful. I mean, so when someone says that, it's an honor.

Speaker 1 What are some conspiracy theories that you feel are true that surround the music industry?

Speaker 2 Well, I like how you really framed that, Chris, because those of us in the music industry, we...

Speaker 1 What would it be like to be the father of one of the greatest musicians of all time? In this episode, we we dive in with Mr.

Speaker 1 Matthew Knowles, father of Beyoncé, the man that literally put Destiny's child on the map and then later launched Beyonce into her solo career.

Speaker 1 We'll learn how he took the principles of being successful in the business world and applied them in the music industry and took Beyonce's career and launched it to outer space.

Speaker 1 You're not going to want to miss this episode. You'll also find out how he really feels about his son-in-law, Jay-Z.
So let's dive in.

Speaker 1 Welcome to another episode of the Founder Podcast. Today, I am super excited to have Mr.
Knowles.

Speaker 1 Matthew Knowles, sometimes referred to as the father of Beyoncé.

Speaker 1 This guy has an illustrious career in the music industry, sold three different businesses, has all kinds of stories to success, is currently a public speaker. He has been everywhere, anywhere.

Speaker 1 So honored to have you. Welcome to the show, Mr.
Knowles.

Speaker 2 Well, Chris, I was saying saying earlier, I have many names. Dr.
Knowles, because I'm in the classroom a lot. I got my PhD.
So Dr. Knowles, Professor Knowles, Mr.

Speaker 2 Knowles, but the one that I get from the young people is Beyonce and Salon's dad.

Speaker 2 Now they're about to add my granddaughter, Blue Ivy, into it. So I'm going to be Beyoncé Salon's Blue Ivy Dad.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 You got to tell me, like,

Speaker 1 does it get old being referred to as Beyonce's dad, or is that totally cool? And you're just super proud of her?

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 2 it's totally cool. I'm super proud of it.

Speaker 2 That only happens with the, you know, the younger generation.

Speaker 2 You know, most people refer to me as Mr. Knowles or people I get to know, Matthew.
But, you know, the younger generation,

Speaker 2 you know, sometimes they say Beyonce's daddy. I'm cool with it, man.
I have a lot of gratitude to Chris

Speaker 2 to be able to have architect Beyoncé's career and be her father. Man, I'm quite grateful.
I mean, so when someone says that, it's an honor. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 I would think, right, like if my daughter and I was a part of her career and helped her get to the level that Beyonce has achieved, right? Like, that's a huge honor, I'm sure that you feel.

Speaker 1 So, you know, you've been in the music industry for a long time. You've seen a lot of different success.

Speaker 1 You know, you were initially a part of helping put Destiny's Child on the map or whatnot. You know,

Speaker 1 I've watched a lot of like older interviews and like some of the early videos and stuff.

Speaker 1 I'd love to hear, you know, some of the lesser known stories of like how that all came to be and like what initially got you into the music industry or initially.

Speaker 2 Yeah, good question, Chris, because most people don't realize that I did 20 years of corporate America and I worked for three Fortune 200 companies working with Xerox

Speaker 2 working with Phillips Medical Systems working with Johnson and Johnson only three companies in 20 years I worked with in diagnostic imaging

Speaker 2 and I was a neurosurgical specialist at the end of my career with Johnson and Johnson. We had a

Speaker 2 that morning we had a surgery, and afterwards the newer neurosurgeon called me to his office to tell me he couldn't use my instruments anymore.

Speaker 2 And I asked him why, and he said, because this managed care thing just started and the cost was too high.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I called my former wife and told her I couldn't do it anymore because I saw the writing on the wall that costs was going to be in medical care a big deal.

Speaker 2 So there was a young kid in Houston, a rapper,

Speaker 2 who had really been asking me to manage him.

Speaker 2 I had never been a music manager, but he knew my success in corporate America, being the number one sales rep in the world with Xerox Medical Systems. And so he knew that.

Speaker 2 And I would go to some of the seminars in the city in Houston. And so

Speaker 2 I transitioned, and I always say that, Chris, I didn't quit my job that day.

Speaker 2 I transitioned, went back to school, took some music business courses, went to almost every seminar I could get to.

Speaker 2 Asked so many questions, people would be annoyed because they were like, hey, give somebody else a chance. I'm like, hey, if you're being shy, I'm not wasting my money.

Speaker 2 But, you know, that's how I got in the industry, really, with this rapper named Le O.

Speaker 2 That was the first artist I got a record deal with.

Speaker 2 What year was that?

Speaker 2 You said, where is he now?

Speaker 1 No, what year was that?

Speaker 2 Oh, gosh, that would have been around 1997.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Somewhere around there, 1997.

Speaker 1 So it sounds like, you know, sales was very foundational to your success, right?

Speaker 1 You had worked

Speaker 1 in some sales aspect in corporate America, is that right?

Speaker 2 Yep, 20 years, 20 years sales and marketing. And

Speaker 1 would you say that like contributed or attributed to your success in the music world? Because, I mean, I'm a big sales believer, right?

Speaker 1 Much of my background comes from the door-to-door sales world and building sales teams and later building a 300-man sales floor, you know, that type of thing. So, like,

Speaker 1 how would you say that skill transitioned over into the music industry?

Speaker 2 Well, I say it a lot, especially those years, the 10 years I was with Xerox and then, you know, all those years, again, eight of those with the medical division, it helped really scope my knowledge

Speaker 2 because we're always selling ourselves, Chris.

Speaker 2 We're always selling ourselves. And we sell it in so many different ways.
Not verbally, we sell ourselves. You know, I have a three-second rule that in three seconds, people form an opinion of us.

Speaker 2 And it's kind of hard to get that opinion to change. So you have to be on and how the prospect can get new.

Speaker 2 But the marketing part, how to build a brand, that was new to the music industry. They were selling records.
I was building brands.

Speaker 2 And to give you an example, when you look at a marketing budget, a typical marketing budget at a major record label, Chris, is, you know, let's call it a million dollars for this exercise. Right.

Speaker 2 I knew that L'Oreal marketing budget for a commercial is 25 million.

Speaker 2 So I convinced, and one of the things you have a sales background, one of the things I pride myself, I always start with the president of an organization.

Speaker 2 Kick me down to someone else, but I'm going to start there.

Speaker 2 And, you know, the president of L'Oreal, we built this

Speaker 2 amazing relationship and probably did 18, 20 commercials with L'Oreal. but with $25 million,

Speaker 2 Beyoncé is in the commercial, the music, the single is in the commercial. You're getting way more eyeballs than the traditional way back in the 90s and early 2000s of

Speaker 2 media on TV or at radio,

Speaker 2 getting those eyeballs with a worldwide commercial. So that's the approach.

Speaker 2 I probably did at least 20 different brands we built a partnership mercedes pepsi uh mcdonald's uh nintendo samsung i i can go on and on wall

Speaker 1 so i'm i'm interested to to understand like when you do these deals was it like was it ever a revenue share a share in the equity or was it always like a sponsorship you get paid for for uh having Beyonce on these commercials or how was that structured?

Speaker 2 No, there were always sponsorships. Okay.

Speaker 2 But the beauty is it always,

Speaker 2 most of the time, almost every time, the music was part

Speaker 2 of the commercial.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And that became dollars as well.

Speaker 2 So it wasn't just that feast that was being charged, but understanding how it could build a brand.

Speaker 2 And that was about building the brand. Sometimes you don't get immediate, you you know, you have to build a brand before you can cash in on a brand.
Right.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's interesting. You know, we're seeing this big shift in the music industry, right? I was talking with T-Payne the other day.
So he was on the show and kind of off

Speaker 1 camera, we were chatting about. And I didn't really understand like how the music industry is necessarily making money now, right?

Speaker 1 Because traditionally it was like sign a record label, they'll pay you this big chunk of money. Like that's how T-Payne made his money initially, right? Got a $40 million deal.

Speaker 1 and that was that was the game of yesteryear, right? 10, 15, 20 years ago. Like, that was that was the way that you made it in the music industry.
Now they're operating much like influencers, right?

Speaker 1 Game, use your music to gain followership and then go and do these brand deals. And we're starting to see even more that than just a sponsorship.

Speaker 1 We're seeing people that are holding equity stakes, right? Whether it's in an alcohol brand or you see Ryan Reynolds recently parlaying into Mint Mobile, right?

Speaker 1 Like these, these influencers in the entertainment space are really coming to understand like the value that they have from an equity standpoint, which is just, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I'd love to hear like your take of where you think.

Speaker 2 things are shifting. Yeah, you're right, Chris.
I just got offered literally last week to be part of a group that's

Speaker 2 publicly, I mean, it will be publicly trading. They will go to an artist and say, again, we'll use a million dollars as an example and say, do you want to put 50%

Speaker 2 of your brand that we can go and get, go out and publicly trade? I think that's where you're going to begin to see happen in the music industry. Now, the thing about that, Chris,

Speaker 2 it still will only be 1% of the the market.

Speaker 2 Just like 1% of the artists in the music industry make a profit and major record labels, more like seven to eight independent record labels.

Speaker 2 But you still have to do the foundational stuff and they can't jump to the money. You have to build a career first.
And that's the mistake a lot of artists make in the music industry.

Speaker 2 When they get that one chance, they can't sustain it because they haven't built their artistry yet right

Speaker 1 yeah it's and i would say that is like the same

Speaker 1 in in like the info space right like you're starting to see artists and entertainers really like the influencer and info space right like people have to like authors right like they they have to build the following before they can go and sell their book right like and and the people that successfully do that they build a community we see it happening through facebook communities or whatever else right now i have a community that will continually buy anything that i recommend that i endorse or whatever and yeah it's it's a really interesting shift in in the whole economy right and that's the again the key is building that brand and knowing how to to build that community that brand um

Speaker 2 and understand because you have a million followers doesn't mean a million people are coming to your concert understanding you know the conversion rate right of numbers is you get three percent that's doing exceptional right and you so you have to have this knowledge and that's the whole key is having the knowledge of knowing how to to build a brand having the knowledge on artist development having the knowledge of marketing all of those things and even understanding the world see when i started in the industry that was a reason I named my company Music World Entertainment.

Speaker 2 There's only 300 and something million people in America. That's 7.8 billion people in the world.
It's just baffling to me that artists and record labels want to spend so much time in America.

Speaker 2 We didn't do that.

Speaker 2 We spent time, a significant amount of time in Europe, in Japan, in Asia,

Speaker 2 Brazil. So you have to understand the approach has to be the world, not just America.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, no,

Speaker 1 100%. Yeah, so it's pretty awesome that, I mean, you talking about how you went and targeted the whole world.
It is, it is crazy. I've traveled a lot of the world.

Speaker 1 In fact, I was just like in India and Dubai and stuff. And I read a recent statistic, like the amount of wealthy people in China and India combined.
I mean, you got about three and a half billion.

Speaker 1 The amount of wealthy people outnumbers the total population of the US. So like the dollars ready to be spent outside of the U.S.

Speaker 1 are so big, and yet, us as Americans, we're so shallow-minded so often, right?

Speaker 2 It's just like we only think it's headquarters. It's actually sad sometimes that

Speaker 2 again, it's lack of knowledge. I mean, you talk about the wealth in that incredible number you just said.

Speaker 2 Also, when you look at 30 and younger

Speaker 2 outside of America, the age of of 30 and younger which would be our targeted base in music is is just astronomical yeah i mean i was just in riyad and 70 of the population is 30 and younger that's crazy that's crazy uh

Speaker 1 so i mean you you obviously had a very unique vision uh when when uh destiny's child beyonce your your other daughter uh uh salange you know, they were all young. You had this great vision.

Speaker 1 Like, what did you initially imagine this becoming? Like, were you always a big visionary and said, hey, we're going to go take over the world?

Speaker 1 Or like, what, or was there a certain thing that happened that like opened you up to like, man, this could be pretty awesome?

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 in high school, and college on championship basketball teams at Xerox Medical System, number one sales rep in the world.

Speaker 2 Started a clothing line from Xero

Speaker 2 and sold it in seven years along with my partners and my family for a sizable,

Speaker 2 sizable

Speaker 2 number.

Speaker 2 I only think about being number one. I love it.
Chicago Sky Champions.

Speaker 2 the team that I

Speaker 2 invested in. I don't, actually, number two pisses me off.

Speaker 1 Winners only, baby.

Speaker 2 Number two,

Speaker 2 we just got outworked.

Speaker 1 I love it. I love it.
My kind of guy.

Speaker 1 So you thought very big from the beginning. I mean,

Speaker 1 when you saw these girls, I mean,

Speaker 1 how old were the girls when you started Destiny's Child?

Speaker 2 So that's what most people have realized, you know, there was an evolution from a girl group called Girls Time that went on Star Search. Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 And that evolution went to another name and it went to another name. And finally,

Speaker 2 Destiny became Destiny's Child.

Speaker 2 But there was a void in the marketplace.

Speaker 2 Girl groups at that time were dressing baggy and you know had a

Speaker 2 hard vibe to them, you know, rap and just hip-hop and just come out. And we came with just the opposite.
You know, we came with this really fun,

Speaker 2 cool,

Speaker 2 sexy style.

Speaker 2 And all of it matched. The music matched,

Speaker 2 the look matched the artist. Because you have to have

Speaker 2 that type of continuity.

Speaker 2 We had a, you know, it also, Chris, regardless of whoever you interview in the music industry, it starts with a great song also.

Speaker 2 I don't care who you are. You have a whack song, it equals whack.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 1 what was the song that put you on the map?

Speaker 2 It was no, no, no, part one and part two. All right.

Speaker 2 And that came about again with a strategy

Speaker 2 that I, you know, there's a company called Broadcast Data System, BDS.

Speaker 2 And they measure every time a record is played,

Speaker 2 the satellite. And I called them and said, hey, I have a song that's called No, No, No.
It's the same band, same lyrics, one's up tempo, one's a ballot.

Speaker 2 Can they count as one song instead of two every time it's played? And they said, Mr. Knowles, no one's ever asked us that before.

Speaker 2 And they said, well, we'll get back with you. And they got back, and they said, Well, we don't see why not.

Speaker 2 Well, every time they played either one of those, it counted as one, and out of nowhere, the girls became number one. I love it with their first single.

Speaker 1 I love it. That's that's a.
I'm anytime you know, something pops off like that, there's always some like out-of-the-box strategy.

Speaker 1 And the fact that you went and you made a request that had never been requested before. I mean, clearly, that was like one of the little hacks or the secrets to

Speaker 1 some of the success, obviously.

Speaker 2 Well, Chris, when I

Speaker 2 never forget sharing that my idea with senior management at Sony, and actually they laughed at me

Speaker 2 until in the meeting, the president of Columbia Records actually had them call BDS,

Speaker 2 put him on a speakerphone, and it was like, yeah, we remember Mr. Knowles because it was such an unusual request.

Speaker 2 And we said, Well, well, why not? We don't see why it couldn't.

Speaker 2 That's when I've stopped being considered a daddy in the music industry, but a possible brilliant manager. I love it.

Speaker 1 I love it. And frankly, no matter what, whether what industry, whatever, I mean, it's always this outside-of-the-box thinking, right? That really takes things.
And

Speaker 1 it's something that is perceived as almost like a joke or laughable by those that are looking at it. Or like, man, this guy's out of his mind.

Speaker 1 Why would anybody do that? Or this, that, or the other? And it's the crazy ones that typically break the mold and go and do incredible things like this.

Speaker 2 Well, you know, I don't know if you noticed, Chris, I authored five books. And my first and bestseller of the five is The DNA of Achievers: 10 Traits of Highly Successful professionals.

Speaker 2 And one of those chapters is thinking outside the box. Absolutely.
You know, most of us are box-in thinkers. We've been conditioned on what we can and can't do.

Speaker 2 We never ask, why are we doing it this way?

Speaker 2 And we live our daily lives inside of a box with other people just like us running into each other versus taking that step outside of the box where there's no barriers, no walls.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, thinking outside of the box is really, really

Speaker 2 important in success.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. You know, as I built my 1,100-person organization, we had six core values.

Speaker 1 Solgen, each of the letters had something that they stood for, and O and Solgen stood for outside the box, right? And so

Speaker 1 it's a core value for pretty much anybody that's going to go and accomplish something great.

Speaker 1 And so I love just drawing those parallels of success across across industry, across culture, across whatever it is. So that's pretty phenomenal.

Speaker 1 You know, so you got these things going, I mean, during a time where competition in the RB and pop space was very high, right? Early 2000s,

Speaker 1 you built up Destiny's Child. And I know Destiny's Child was really well known for the live events, the performances or whatnot.

Speaker 1 Whose brain child was,

Speaker 1 or was it, was it, did the girls influence a lot of this? Was it mostly from you? Did you have somebody else that was coming in and designing things?

Speaker 1 Help us understand a little bit.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 we had an amazing team.

Speaker 2 As a matter of fact,

Speaker 2 Beyoncé's publicist,

Speaker 2 going back to the early 90s, was part of that team. My former wife, and I and I always say my friend Tina did an exceptional job in

Speaker 2 creating the image of Destiny's Child because with females especially imaging is critical. So creating that image,

Speaker 2 I understood the importance of building the right team, having the vocal coach, having the choreographer,

Speaker 2 managing the record label because you know

Speaker 2 they have a lot of a lot of artists that they have on their label, hundreds, thousands sometimes. And what sets you apart?

Speaker 2 Building those relationships, understanding what each department does, sales, marketing, international. So it's a lot to learn.

Speaker 2 And there's a lot of people, as you know, you've ran a successful organization and crafting that right team and making people accountable and responsible. Right, right.

Speaker 1 You know, it sounds like over the years, you've you've been involved in some incredible management, building incredible teams.

Speaker 1 In fact, so a little something from your Instagram, it says, you know, remembering the growth that we were having in the music world entertainment in the early 2000s, you had Destiny's Child, right?

Speaker 1 You had a solo, you had sold the artist management arm of Music World. You had partnered with Sanctuary Records.
You were doing, you had your clothing lines, House of Darion,

Speaker 1 Darion, and Miss Tina. You were beginning the traction of apparel brands to watch.
Solange, Beyoncé, Kelly, Michelle were all beginning their solo careers.

Speaker 1 So you had all these different things going on, right? And you had a lot going on.

Speaker 1 You had a lot going on. So, you know, and you just started Music World Gospel and purchased Compadre Records.
Like, first of all, how did you manage all this? Like, I'd love to hear the details.

Speaker 1 Did you have different management people working under you, manage all the different arms? Are you just a crazy workaholic working 90 hours?

Speaker 2 No, no, no, I don't believe in that, man. I don't believe in,

Speaker 2 again, I believe in a strategic plan.

Speaker 2 So one of the things when I was with Sanctuary, and this is important,

Speaker 2 that was a huge challenge because I had Earth, Winter Fire, OJ's, Shaka Khan, Kool-In the game.

Speaker 2 At one point in that whole time frame, I managed NAS.

Speaker 2 So then I bought all of these black urban management companies, five of them, and made these young men millionaires, and they were in their late 20s. So we also had Nelly,

Speaker 2 we had, you know, Bose kind of floor tree.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 we had a huge, huge roster. I had an office in LA, office in Houston, office in New York, office, a corporate office in London.
So I'm traveling, and at one time I had 117 people

Speaker 2 just working under the Music World division.

Speaker 2 I was division of the president. But one of the things, unique thing, my assistant has been with me, Lynn Amanza, 23 years.
Wow.

Speaker 1 That's some high trust right there. High trust.

Speaker 2 Beyonce's top security I hired that's been with her almost 20 years. Wow.

Speaker 2 Her publicists that I talk have been with her over 25 years. It's a lot of people that are still there at that core.

Speaker 2 And that's what it's about.

Speaker 2 And I

Speaker 2 always was teaching. I'm always teaching

Speaker 2 and building

Speaker 2 that trust factor.

Speaker 1 That's amazing. That's amazing.
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Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 you helped these girls shift from,

Speaker 1 you know, a group to a solo to becoming solo artists. Like, what was the vision with that? Like, whose idea?

Speaker 1 Like, where did that all stem from? Was it just like they got sick of working with each other, or it was an idea that you had? Like, hey, what if? Like, how did that all come up?

Speaker 2 It certainly wasn't because they got sick of working with each other. When I tell you, even today, they're best friends,

Speaker 2 they have an amazing love for each other. But it was another one of my ideas.
You know,

Speaker 2 some of them work, some of them don't. But, you know, the idea behind it was each one of the ladies had their own

Speaker 2 specially genre of music that they love.

Speaker 2 Michelle came from the church, so she loved gospel. Kelly loved pop and had a voice that was pop.
And Beyonce was, as we know, RB

Speaker 2 core.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 what I did is in each genre,

Speaker 2 created them their own solo career. Michelle had four or five number one gospel albums.
Kelly had,

Speaker 2 you know, four, three Grammys that she won. And over in Europe, Kelly was the it girl over in Europe and Australia, because pop is somewhat bigger

Speaker 2 in those areas.

Speaker 2 And then Beyoncé, you know, from day one, her success just skyrocketed. But what it did, Chris, it brought back a larger community

Speaker 2 than we had before.

Speaker 2 It also ensured that they would have a career

Speaker 2 if something ever happened to Destiny's child, if they decided to retire, which they did.

Speaker 1 Got it. No, that makes a lot of sense.
So, you know,

Speaker 1 it's very, you know, public that, you know, in 2011 that

Speaker 1 Beyonce decided to go a different way as far as having you as a manager or whatnot.

Speaker 1 How were you able to handle that? I'm sure that was really tough for you, both as a manager and as a father. Like walk us through that experience.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 it was certainly tough, Chris.

Speaker 2 But I have been Beyoncé's manager for almost 20, let's see, she was 12.

Speaker 2 25 years?

Speaker 2 Nobody in the music industry or only a handful of people in the history of music has managed an A-list artist 20 years or more. So let's start there.
Right. Let's start there.

Speaker 2 She had gotten, Beyonce had gotten some wrong information. She has since apologized and realized it was wrong.
But it had nothing to do, as people thought, with the music industry or music business.

Speaker 2 It had all to do with family dynamics, and I'll leave it right there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, as a father,

Speaker 1 was that difficult? Because obviously, I mean, mixing,

Speaker 1 anytime you mix business and family, right? I've worked a lot with family over the years and whatnot. It makes it really hard to just balance that personal relationship.

Speaker 1 I'm assuming you found very similar type things in managing your daughter.

Speaker 2 But again, this had more family dynamics than business dynamics.

Speaker 2 And those dynamics, as you know, are different. Now, if that was

Speaker 2 Beyonce,

Speaker 2 somebody is not a relative, I'll just say, hey, 25 years, I managed her, made hundreds of million dollars, made her a star, and

Speaker 2 I'm tired.

Speaker 2 But because you are a parent, you have a father, it has that dynamics. But sometimes we have to separate that

Speaker 2 and understand

Speaker 2 the business side versus the emotional, personal side.

Speaker 2 And that's a challenge for people and challenge for those that it affects

Speaker 2 because there's love and trust involved.

Speaker 1 So, would you call this like, was it a low point for you, or did you feel relieved at that point?

Speaker 2 Again, it was more going on than just that

Speaker 2 in family dynamics. That wasn't, it was more going on.
I'd rather not get into that part. Right.

Speaker 2 But it was much more going on than just the music part of it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I can imagine.

Speaker 2 And, you know, that's all the public knows, but it was more than that.

Speaker 1 For sure, for sure. And would,

Speaker 1 so how, how, I mean, that was 13 years ago.

Speaker 1 How have the last 13 years been between your relationship? Have you been able to do that?

Speaker 2 It's been great.

Speaker 2 It's been great. You know, it was a challenge for the initial period.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 you have to rebuild,

Speaker 2 you know, trust. You have to rebuild your relationship.

Speaker 2 That's something that happens to every family.

Speaker 2 I don't think a family out there that hadn't had something happen where

Speaker 2 and then you have to understand people get they get older, they bring others into into their lives, they get married, they have kids, and so those dynamics, you know, dad is not the only one.

Speaker 2 You know, you got husband and kids and career. I get it.

Speaker 2 And I laugh. I said, I,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 we text a lot.

Speaker 2 That's what all young, any dad that's in the 60s or 70s, 70s, realize you're not going to be talking to your kids. You're going to to be texting with them.
So we text a lot. I laugh.

Speaker 2 We're like, you talk to her. Like, do you not know like young people don't do that anymore?

Speaker 2 But we have a great relationship. Matter of fact, I'll see her

Speaker 2 this weekend.

Speaker 2 My granddaughter is having her

Speaker 2 elementary. graduation.
Nice. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Nice.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's great to hear that you guys have been able to heal things because, man, that's difficult. Like,

Speaker 1 I've had some family issues with business over the years. Like, you know, my very first business that I launched in 08

Speaker 1 ended up going bankrupt. And my father-in-law and my father were both investors in that business.

Speaker 1 And, you know, my father, who was a school teacher and didn't have a lot of money, he handled it like a champ.

Speaker 1 He said, you know, hey, look, I know you're going to make it right. Cause we went bankrupt.
We lost everything. And, um, you know, my, my father-in-law didn't, didn't handle it well.

Speaker 1 And, and it's actually been about the same timeline as when it was 2011, right? When, when things went down.

Speaker 1 And so similarly, over the last 13 years, it's been this like, it's this been the strain and initially extremely difficult, right? Like

Speaker 1 we very rarely found ourselves alone in a room talking. And when we did, it was strained.
And, you know, and, but over the years, things healed themselves. We made things right.

Speaker 1 And, you know, and now we're able to hang out and have a great time. And we've built that, you know, time, the old saying that time heals all wounds.
But

Speaker 2 absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 And then also, I think as

Speaker 2 our kids get older.

Speaker 2 They begin to have a revelation and they begin to see things

Speaker 2 from a different lens than they did at 25.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, you know,

Speaker 2 25, you just don't quite get it, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it

Speaker 1 reminds me of like one of my favorite leadership principles. It's called respect different perspectives, right?

Speaker 1 And I think when we're young, it's very hard for us to respect the perspectives of others, and we only really ever see things from one side.

Speaker 1 And when we progress or mature, as a leader, we understand that there's really never one right side to the story. There's two different perspectives.

Speaker 1 And one of my favorite visuals for anybody that's watching this on YouTube or whatnot is, or if you're just listening to this, you take your hand and you put it above your head and you go clockwise.

Speaker 1 Do it with me, Mr. Knowles.

Speaker 2 Come on, right here.

Speaker 1 Do it clockwise. And then, and then when you bring it down below you, go in the same direction, what direction is it going now?

Speaker 2 A different direction.

Speaker 2 It's going counterclockwise, right?

Speaker 1 But you didn't change the direction, right? And it's one of the craziest things. And the only thing that changed was your perspective, right? And

Speaker 1 I think what obviously Beyonce has learned as she's grown up, and different people as we mature, is like, man, there's really two different perspectives of any different situation.

Speaker 1 And I'm sure you've learned this and developed.

Speaker 1 And it's like, you begin to realize like there is, nobody's ever right in one scenario you just have to understand and respect the other person and and the way things are handled and and ultimately when you do that it might it it makes it way easier to overcome strains on a relationship or or weak points or whatnot and so i mean that's i think also i think also chris when you you get older

Speaker 2 and i i i you know one of the things as a college professor of 20 years, I always tell my students first day, I want them to have a perspective. I want them to challenge and ask why.

Speaker 2 But I also think as you get older, as you go from your 20s into your 30s, 40s, and 50s, you begin to understand my perspective might have been built on wrong, false information.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 2 And I think that's where growth has been is that the information initially received was inaccurate, wrong information, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, wrong information, wrong interpretation. There's it, it really

Speaker 1 makes you realize that, like, even in like war, there's really never even one right side in war, right?

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 1 because you have two people operating off two different types of information, two different perspectives, two different interpretations.

Speaker 1 And rather than working it out, they choose to just battle it out. And, and, uh, you know, it can teach you a lot

Speaker 1 about life. But

Speaker 1 good stuff. So, I mean, Mr.
Knowles, like, Matthew,

Speaker 1 you've been involved in a lot, right? Like, you've, you've seen, I mean,

Speaker 1 you've been a professor, you've built and sold companies and everything else, like,

Speaker 1 and obviously had a lot of financial successes. Was there ever a time that you had a down, like that, that

Speaker 1 you weren't successfully financial or you lost it all? I mean, I went through bankruptcy myself. Did you ever go through any of those types of struggles?

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I just want to make a quick correction. I'm still a professor.
I teach at Pepperdine and I teach at the London College of Contemporary Music. And I'll see you there, my students.

Speaker 2 If some of you are listening, and see you in two weeks. I love it.

Speaker 2 But to answer your question,

Speaker 2 man, I'm in sales. And in my younger part of my life, I was able to accumulate

Speaker 2 some wealth.

Speaker 2 But I can tell you there was a point when I was building and investing in Destiny's Child

Speaker 2 that I came within a month of losing our home because I was investing everything,

Speaker 2 time and money

Speaker 2 into...

Speaker 2 Destiny's Child.

Speaker 2 And I think when you really believe in something and you believe in the people,

Speaker 2 that you're willing to take those types of risks.

Speaker 2 And another one of my chapters in the DNA of achievers, risk takers. And so if you're a risk taker, you're going to have some downfalls.
It's the people that play it safe, maybe not.

Speaker 2 But that wouldn't be me. Unfortunately, you know, fortunately, and

Speaker 2 I'm 72 years old, so in my adult life

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 60,

Speaker 2 things have been pretty good. Pretty good.

Speaker 1 That's pretty awesome. Yeah,

Speaker 1 I would love to sit in on

Speaker 1 one of your classes. It sounds like you have some pretty awesome stuff going as a professor and whatnot.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 1 you got to answer the question:

Speaker 1 what are your thoughts on having Jay-Z

Speaker 1 as a son-in-law?

Speaker 2 I love Jay-Z.

Speaker 2 He's an amazing man,

Speaker 2 smart.

Speaker 2 And, you know, Beyonce wrote this incredible, beautiful song on her first album

Speaker 2 that she wanted to marry someone just like her daddy.

Speaker 2 And I think most girls do, don't they?

Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 is there ever a time that you guys butted heads?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 Never, ever, ever, ever. That's awesome.

Speaker 1 that's just not the type of relationship that that we have that's cool that's cool um you know it's interesting there's there's a lot of conspiracy theories right like that that float around or in music industries whether it's around like like uh record labels and like who owns what or whatnot um

Speaker 1 what uh what true what

Speaker 1 You don't have to answer this question if you don't want to, but I'm always interested. Like, what are some conspiracy theories that you feel are true that surround the music industry?

Speaker 2 Well, I like how you really frame that, Chris, because

Speaker 2 those of us in the music industry, we laugh how little

Speaker 2 anyone outside of the music industry, how little

Speaker 2 they know or understand because it's a very complex industry.

Speaker 2 It never ceased to amaze me when I'm out with my wife and her girlfriends and some of my buddies.

Speaker 2 They always want to talk about the music industry and they don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Speaker 2 And I just don't even say anything. I just be like, you have no idea what you're talking about.
But it's a topic. It's a hot topic that everybody wants to talk about.
So I don't know.

Speaker 2 75% of the stuff you read. I mean, we're in a clickbait world anyway.
But 75% of the stuff you read is not even true because even the person who wrote it didn't know, or they purposely.

Speaker 2 So, when you get to entertainment and music,

Speaker 2 the general public doesn't understand it.

Speaker 1 So, what are some things that are true that would maybe surprise the general population?

Speaker 2 That a million streams makes you about $4,000.

Speaker 1 Crazy.

Speaker 2 Now, but you would hear somebody go on social media, he got a million streams. And then I'm looking like, really?

Speaker 2 Yeah, really.

Speaker 1 It is wild, like, really, how little money is in directly just music streaming now, right? Like, you have to be in the live performances, you have to be doing the brand deals or whatever else, right?

Speaker 1 You really got to parlay your image. And so, how, how true is it? I've heard, and you can

Speaker 1 put this to rest, that like,

Speaker 1 who's who's really pulling the strings behind the industry?

Speaker 1 I've heard that there might even just be only a couple people that are at the very top that own a lot of different things and are making a lot of the calls. Is there any truth to that?

Speaker 2 Again, it's 1% like most businesses. Yeah.

Speaker 2 1% controls

Speaker 2 the industry and success.

Speaker 2 You know, it's 1%

Speaker 2 that's there. And you said it so adequately, you know, eloquently.
It's really how it was set up, Chris, from day one.

Speaker 2 The record label is going to make their money, and they should, because they make an investment. And as a businessman, you understand that.
Again, when we look at fans, they don't understand.

Speaker 2 Like, they think the poor artist is being taken advantage of. Well, I invested $5 million.

Speaker 2 What do you expect? Me to not get it back?

Speaker 2 But so, selling records is where that's where a record label is going to make their money.

Speaker 2 And as you said, it's live events, it's touring, it's publishing, it's building brands and building partnerships and collaborations. That's where artists make their money.

Speaker 2 It's not going to be on selling records.

Speaker 2 The formula is just not made up that way where it's going to change anytime soon, unless you are the record label yourself.

Speaker 2 and which some people are doing now that we have social media and other digital components in

Speaker 2 a music industry and a digital world now.

Speaker 1 I'm interested to know your take. So,

Speaker 1 in 2024, you're a brand new artist. You have no connections.
You're very talented. How would you go about establishing your career and taking the fast track to success?

Speaker 2 I took a deep breath because

Speaker 2 I always say this because I'm the guy. I hope you, I just shoot, I just tell it the way it is on a sugar coat it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 being talented and you can sing and rap, like there's millions of people that can do that.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 2 And when I say millions of people that are talented,

Speaker 2 that's not a prerequisite to get you in. It's just

Speaker 2 your talent you have to have more than that today

Speaker 2 and yesterday you had to have more than that uh so what do you need to have what what do you have to do with this

Speaker 2 star power hit songs strategy uh

Speaker 2 strategic alignments

Speaker 1 you that's what you need today so what would be what would be the first three options

Speaker 2 sometimes it's just sometimes it's just luck you know you were at the right place at the right time and and that that person was there and saw you.

Speaker 2 Those things still happen as well. But even in luck, you have to be prepared.
And a lot of people, when the window opens, they're just not prepared.

Speaker 2 And my sadness is, Chris, I see so many artists that's not prepared. And not only are they not prepared, their team are not

Speaker 2 prepared as well. Their management,

Speaker 2 their legal representation, representation,

Speaker 2 they don't have the right team. So it requires a whole lot to get this right.
This is a really unique industry. And I tell you,

Speaker 2 someone asked me the other day,

Speaker 2 highly successful in the medical field, highly successful in music.

Speaker 2 Which today, if someone said you had a magic wand, I would take the medical field.

Speaker 2 If today you gave me a choice, I would be, I'd rather be in a medical field again

Speaker 2 than to be back in the music industry.

Speaker 1 And why is that? I mean, what deters you away from the music industry in 2024?

Speaker 2 First of all, it's extremely hard.

Speaker 2 Again, I'm not talking, I'm talking the 1%

Speaker 2 to be in the 1%. Let me be specific, to be in the 1% of the music field.
It's just the work that's required,

Speaker 2 the stress that's required, you know

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 it's

Speaker 2 and you have to have tough skin you can't read the sof so social media stuff and you know it's a different world than it was 20 years ago um

Speaker 2 i cameras are watching eyeballs are watching everywhere you go

Speaker 2 it's it's just an absolutely tough, tough industry to be at that 1%.

Speaker 2 And when you find people that are, my hat's off to you because what they have, first and foremost, they're extremely passionate about what they do.

Speaker 2 And Beyoncé is a prime example of that. Kobe Bryant was a prime example of that.
Serena

Speaker 2 and Venus are prime examples of that. Michael Jordan, that passion, that fire.
Because, Chris, what coexists with that, which makes these people so successful, are their work ethics.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 2 And you can't have the work ethics unless you have the passion. And if you don't have those two things, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 You can wrap it up because you're not going to make it in any industry, not just the music industry.

Speaker 1 Amen. Amen.

Speaker 1 Well, Mr. Knowles, Mr.
Matthew,

Speaker 1 it's been a pleasure. So I know you have a lot of,

Speaker 1 what's driving you in 2024? I know you're doing a lot of public speaking.

Speaker 1 Tell us a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, uh i uh i speak on various topic sub subjects i'm a cancer survivor um really really rare chris uh

Speaker 2 one percent uh i stay in that one percent lane uh male breast cancer so i go all over the world i was just i think i have 12 speaking um just on that topic and then entrepreneurship obviously my background in entrepreneurship

Speaker 2 and then obviously music business. And then, overall, just the DNA of achiever.
What makes people, what are some of the things you need, attributes to be great versus good?

Speaker 2 There's a lot of people that are good at what they do. There's only a few that's great at what they do.
I love it. And so, I go around the world.
I share my successes. I share my failures.

Speaker 2 I believe in health and wellness, and part of that is also mental health. Amen.

Speaker 2 And we often don't want to talk about that that when we talk about health and wellness.

Speaker 2 I do.

Speaker 2 I spent years in therapy to understand myself.

Speaker 2 So, you know, that's what I do.

Speaker 2 You can go to matthewknows.com and book me to speak. And I'm so proud of my family.

Speaker 2 So proud of Beyonce, how she pierced the veil in country music recently.

Speaker 2 Awesome. I actually teach a course at Cornell,

Speaker 2 African American Aesthetic Culture from Spirituals to Hip Hop. And just for the record, there was an instrument called a Kantin, A-K-O-N-T-I-N-G, that the slaves brought over.

Speaker 2 That was the first banjo.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 black people,

Speaker 2 this is Black Music Month, the month of June. Be clear, black people were the first doing country music.

Speaker 1 I love it. I love it.

Speaker 1 Country music is actually my favorite. So I love that

Speaker 1 she's singing it.

Speaker 2 That's great. Well, good, Chris.
I've enjoyed just having a conversation with you, man.

Speaker 1 Oh, man. It's been a good time.
So, Matthew, where's the best place for people to follow you on social media, follow your journey, hear more of your message?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm on all of them, man. I'm on all of them.
But you can go to, again, matthewknows.com and see my socials.

Speaker 2 Everything's right there.

Speaker 2 Compact.

Speaker 2 All you have to do is click a button.

Speaker 1 I love it. I love it.
Well, thank you.

Speaker 2 Congratulations, Chris. I got to say congratulations to you, man.
Thanks, dude.

Speaker 2 You got some great news today. You're going to share that?

Speaker 1 Yeah, man. We hit number 18 on the charts overall for business podcasts.
And I think we're sitting right at number 160 in all podcasts in the world, all genres. So that's

Speaker 1 pretty phenomenal.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's man.

Speaker 2 Congratulations. I'm so happy and proud and happy for you.
I appreciate it. I love how your face lit up when you shared that with us.

Speaker 2 So, I hope we have this opportunity to have another conversation, man.

Speaker 1 Amen, my man. Well, appreciate you so much for sharing all the truth bombs, your stories, all the great experiences.
Until next time.