#98: T-Pain; How the King of Autotune Went from $40 Million to $0

Speaker 1 I know there are obstacles and there's things that we had to grow up into. There's a lot of immature things I did, obviously, because, you know, maybe it don't give a 19-year-old $40 million.

Speaker 1 I don't know. You know what I mean? So 19, 40 million bucks, from basic, what I know, I mean, that ran dry at one point.
Where did it all go? I have no idea. I have no idea.

Speaker 1 I kind of have some ideas, but that's the crazy thing. I don't have access to my money.
Really? So I had my account.

Speaker 1 And I had to call my managers to be like, hey, yo, I want to buy this thing. Can you send me some money to my car?

Speaker 1 And then that's how I got money. I thought that's how it worked.
You're asking for permission to use your own money. So to use my own money.
So they came and got me when I was 18 years old. Right.

Speaker 1 So I'm thinking that's just how that works. This must be big business stuff.
I didn't know about business back then. So it's like, yeah, this must be how it works.

Speaker 1 I had no intentions on that being my thing at all. Yeah.
So I heard it on a Jennifer Lopez song. And then I was like, I want to try to do that for a whole song, but I don't know what it's called.

Speaker 1 I went through every preset of every plugin I have, and I came up on auto-tune and I found it. I was like, oh my God, I finally found it on the sixth day.

Speaker 1 All right, so we got here, we got Fahim Najim. Look at you,

Speaker 1 nailing it, better known as T-Pain. Yeah, let's go, let's go indeed.
So, at what point in your life

Speaker 1 did you shift your name?

Speaker 1 Um, man, pretty early on. I think it was, I think I was about 14, 14, 14, yeah, it definitely wasn't t-pain, I will say that.

Speaker 1 First name was Shorty Pop. Shorty Pop? Shorty Pop.
That was the first name. Yeah, well, my parents called me Pop, and I was part of a group called the Shorty Niners.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And we all wore San Francisco jerseys. So why'd you go by Pop?

Speaker 1 I was fat.

Speaker 1 Because my parents,

Speaker 1 you got to understand in black culture, we don't.

Speaker 1 Pronounce things right sometimes. And my parents

Speaker 1 would call it a pop belly pig. Wow.
So they called me pop because my stomach was out of control. So you were shorty pop for what? A couple years? How long? A couple is a couple years.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I can't remember.
But it was

Speaker 1 awesome.

Speaker 1 I'd say about three or four years. Yeah.
So a few.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 never really gone by Fahim. No, no, no, no, no, no.
It was already hard enough for people to pronounce it. All my teachers in school couldn't pronounce it and shit.

Speaker 1 So it was one of those things that I didn't want to confuse the world. And, you know, growing up Muslim, it was like nobody really liked that at the time.

Speaker 1 It was like, you know, so it was like, let's kind of back away from that. And I didn't know any more people named Haim.
So I didn't.

Speaker 1 So are your parents practicing Muslims? Yeah, yeah. So I was born Muslim.
So that was, I was right into it, like right off the bat. So yeah, my dad converted when he was in college.

Speaker 1 And then my mom converted with him. So that was

Speaker 1 rough. So

Speaker 1 you grew up that way?

Speaker 1 At what point? Because

Speaker 1 based on my understanding, it's like you don't consider yourself religious? No, no, not at all. Nah, once I had pepperoni pizza,

Speaker 1 she was like, man, I need meat. I was out.

Speaker 1 I was out. No.

Speaker 1 It's because they don't eat pork or what? No, it was just a lot. It was just, you know, a lot to do.
And it was just so many strongholds and things that kind of,

Speaker 1 you know it was it's kind of

Speaker 1 segregating it felt like you know what i mean like it felt like we couldn't be friends with certain people it felt like we you know if we believe different things then we can't hang around certain people or you know uh even some of my christian friends parents was like don't go hanging around those muslims and it was like damn like jesus wow wow so i would uh yeah i you know i just wanted to i just wanted to be a person yeah not not, you know, not really defined by a religion or a belief or anything like that.

Speaker 1 So I just kind of, it's not that I got out of it. I mean, I was really never into it.
Right. Because as a child, like, you know, praying five times a day was crazy.
Dude, that's a lot.

Speaker 1 Cutting into my playtime.

Speaker 1 I have several friends that are practicing Muslims.

Speaker 1 And it's like, man, they are dedicated. Yeah, it's in there.
And I don't know which way East and West is, man. I can't find.

Speaker 1 I'm so disoriented all the time. I got to use Waves everywhere I go.

Speaker 1 I can't stop every time I'm doing something. And I don't know, man.

Speaker 1 It just wasn't for me. I just wanted to be.
So was that hard on your parents? I mean, were they like super religious and they were like sad? No, no, no, no, no, no. They didn't know.
They didn't care.

Speaker 1 My mom, like, loves Christmas. You know what I mean? So.
Obviously, for the obvious reasons, for the consumerism reasons, but also because Christmas is just, you know, something she grew up with.

Speaker 1 And it was a special time in her life. And then when she got to college, she converted with my dad.
And it was like, well, now we don't have Christmas. What's this now?

Speaker 1 So she wasn't like super into it. My dad was T-Ma'am,

Speaker 1 which is basically, I might be wrong because I never really looked into it. But from my understanding, he's like a rabbi.
Right.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 that's my understanding of it. Wow.
I never really asked.

Speaker 1 I just knew he was very important. Yeah.
So

Speaker 1 he was in it, in it. He was like a public speaker and all that stuff.
So I don't think he was sad that I got of it. I think he was more proud that I chose a way.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 That I chose to be my own person and not so much as, you know, I'm sure he would have liked if I would have followed him into everything he did. And, you know, in some form, I am a public speaker.

Speaker 1 Right. You know what I mean? So it's kind of like I did follow him.
But, you know, I'm just,

Speaker 1 I'm pretty confident that he's happy that I just chose a path and not, you know, lazing about. And you, uh, you, you consider yourself a family person, right? Family man.
yeah

Speaker 1 is that all not at first not at first i didn't know about like my family my like my parents and my my siblings we were never like

Speaker 1 close yeah like

Speaker 1 my wife's family oh my god completely different bro it's like they tell each other they love them and i was like the f is that

Speaker 1 so that never happened growing up what no no that what the

Speaker 1 you love me so no no hugs no. Oh, what? No.

Speaker 1 My mom gave me a

Speaker 1 Mike's heart lemonade once. I mean,

Speaker 1 that was it. Whatever she was drinking, she let me drink whatever she was drinking.
But it's like,

Speaker 1 I don't know. I mean,

Speaker 1 it's a typical, I would say typical black family. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 You know, you grow up learning that things are hard and they're going to be hard for your life. So it's like, cut all that mushy, man.
Let's get to work. You know what I mean? So, it was

Speaker 1 real tough on the family, but I didn't know it because that's just how I grew up. There was no

Speaker 1 what you grew up around, I didn't have a reference, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 So, that's just what it was, but it was uh, you know, we never told each other we like love each other until my brother passed away. Hmm,

Speaker 1 my brother passed away, and everybody's like, Oh, we can die

Speaker 1 like hey, we need, we got a lot of

Speaker 1 to catch up on.

Speaker 1 How old were you in the heavens?

Speaker 1 This was four years ago. Oh, man.
This is, you know, or five, five years ago now. But, you know.
So it was like, it was like a big eye-opener for me. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Now we got a family group text and shit. Like, it's just like

Speaker 1 everybody checking on each other. Like, hey, everybody still alive?

Speaker 1 So, like, goddamn, like, you know, but now feeling it is like,

Speaker 1 we missed out on a lot. You know, we went, we, like, we did a lot of stuff.
Like, you know, we did family shit. Like, we went to Golden Corral.

Speaker 1 you know, hit the buffet every now and then. But, you know,

Speaker 1 seeing how my wife's family is, like even her cousins in Disneyville, like all of them, we love you.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 1 I missed out on a ton of love. Like, but I knew it was there.
It wasn't like we didn't love each other. It's just, we didn't have a way to show it.
Yeah. So it was like a.

Speaker 1 It was a hardening process. You know what I mean? It was, it was dipping the steel in the cold water.
It was, it was, you know, and I think that, you know, I think it helped.

Speaker 1 It definitely definitely hurt also, but it helped a lot. Uh, me getting through this, this industry, you know what I mean? Yeah, it helped.
But so, so you, as a father, you now have three kids, right?

Speaker 1 So, is that family dynamic completely? You have four kids, four. Oh, man, yeah, sweet.
Yeah, how old are they? Oh,

Speaker 1 uh, 20,

Speaker 1 17,

Speaker 1 15,

Speaker 1 17.

Speaker 1 Okay, Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so, how is how is that shaped? So, you grew up one way, your wife grew up completely different. Yeah.
How did she? She changed me. Yeah.
You know, like you can, oh man, you can almost see,

Speaker 1 like, if you go back and see my past like interviews, you can kind of see the moment I got married.

Speaker 1 It's like, it's scary, bro. Because once I started meeting her family, I'm like, I don't have to be this person

Speaker 1 that I'm being. Like, you know, because you go out with this mindset that you got to be this kind of person.
You got to talk a certain way. And, you know, people saw this flip of just how I talk.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? It was this, it was this weird,

Speaker 1 it was this weird feeling of, oh man, I can drop that now.

Speaker 1 I don't have to be this guy anymore, you know, and also trying to impress her, you know, of I didn't want people, I didn't, like when we go out, obviously she's beautiful as

Speaker 1 you know, she's half white. And every time we went out, the way I looked, everybody was looking at her like, ma'am, are you okay? Like, is this man bothering you? Like, so I was like, I gotta,

Speaker 1 I gotta straighten up. You know what I mean? I gotta dress better.
I gotta speak more, you know,

Speaker 1 just not eloquently, but, you know, like, I gotta.

Speaker 1 I gotta not talk like I don't know what words are. You know what I mean? But that was, that was what I grew up learning.
That's how, you know, that's how everybody around me talked.

Speaker 1 And, you know, once I wanted to mostly just protect her. yeah, you know what I mean, and just be a better person.
So, I gotta imagine, right?

Speaker 1 So, you guys have been married, so she's obviously changed you and shift you a lot, but you've been married over 20 years, 20 years, yeah, 20 years, yeah, yeah, just over 20 years, and

Speaker 1 the whole time, that's when you're developing your music career, yeah, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I can't imagine that's gotta be like easy on her, especially the line of work that you were doing and the things that you it was, it was, it was easier on her because she's military You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 She was in the Air Force and like when I met her, she was in the Air Force. Yeah, the way we met is she was coming down to my studio to hear her sister's music that I was producing.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you know, I was producing her sister and a friend, and she came down and listened.

Speaker 1 And when she left out of my house from listening to the music, she was like, hey, that's my husband in there. I didn't know she said that.

Speaker 1 And that was weird as hell. The crazy thing is, we got the whole night on film.
I used to carry around a little JVC high-H. high-handed,

Speaker 1 I used to carry around the camcorder at all times. Just to, I don't know why, I just love technology, you know what I mean? Like, so I'm real big into tech, like that, and people find that weird.

Speaker 1 I, I guess, I don't know, yeah, I know you, uh, you had a show for a couple seasons, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you go into like different businesses, yeah, man.

Speaker 1 I'm really into that, and so you know, I used to carry around the camcorder all the time, but

Speaker 1 the fact that she was in the military, like, she's used to like schedules and, you know, me not being around and her having to go work while I'm doing this.

Speaker 1 And, you know, that's really what shaped a lot of this because she was in the military and I was dirt poor. Yeah.
Dirt. She used to send me $80 like every month to just try to live.
Wow.

Speaker 1 Like she used to give me her paycheck. This is before you were married? No, yeah.
This is old. Yeah.
This is like the year before we were married. Wow.

Speaker 1 Because we've only known each other for 21 years. Yeah.
And we've been married for 20 years. Right.

Speaker 1 So the year before, it's like she would give me her entire entire paycheck and just not eat because she wanted me to just keep doing what she was doing.

Speaker 1 So she got with you when you were dirt poor, didn't really have a name for yourself, all these things. Well, I was

Speaker 1 tri-state famous because I was in a group. You know what I mean? But she didn't.
She's really famous. She had no idea.
She had no idea who we were.

Speaker 1 She didn't care.

Speaker 1 But then your career takes off, man. And, you know,

Speaker 1 the industry you're in, you're always around girls, right?

Speaker 1 You got all kinds of crazy stuff going on. I'm sure there's drugs, girls, it's a lot going on.
All the things.

Speaker 1 How does a woman like her say, like, I trust you or stay fairly new when the good news is, she likes girls and drugs, too.

Speaker 1 So, lucked up on that one. You know what I mean? So, it was a

Speaker 1 transitional period to where I felt like I had to sneak around and shit, but then it's like, no, I want to do that with you. Yeah.
And, you know, she's here with me. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 So she started going on the road with me. And, you know, we both were doing girls and drugs.

Speaker 1 So it was a little easier in my case.

Speaker 1 You know, I mean, obviously there were periods where it was just like, I felt like the sneaky guy, but it was just like, I don't have to. Like, why not? Why not just? Why not?

Speaker 1 So are you guys in an open relationship? No, no.

Speaker 1 That's a big misconception that a lot of people have that we're in an open relationship because that means both parties can just go do whatever they want. Right.
We just invite other girls into our.

Speaker 1 Like, it's just not, you know what I mean? So we're big into threesomes and like that. That's interesting.
Yeah. No other guys.
Do not apply. No guys.

Speaker 1 There's no more room for. I got enough of that.
Got enough of that. It's a lot of tights that need filling.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Dude, that's mind-boggling to me. So I, you know, I'm, I'm the kind of guy.
So I've, I've only ever slept with my wife. That's cool.
Yes. That is great.

Speaker 1 You know, so it's, it's like, you know, to like understand like behind the window, like, you know. It's cool.
That's, you know what? That would have been, that would have been a game changer for me.

Speaker 1 God damn it, man. That would have been awesome.
Are you a home service business owner struggling to get your time back?

Speaker 1 Maybe you're feeling like you have to do everything yourself, or maybe you aren't able to break through that certain revenue plateau.

Speaker 1 You feel like owning your business isn't quite what you thought it would be. Am I right? I understand you more than you know.

Speaker 1 I've launched many businesses throughout my life, and I was lucky enough to have built multiple businesses that scaled to two nine-figure exits.

Speaker 1 But more importantly, I have had even more businesses fail. Why would that be more important?

Speaker 1 I learned a ton from each venture that I was a part of, each teaching me lessons about how to hire the right people, how to price my product, how to build out proper SOPs, and even building the right culture.

Speaker 1 These lessons are what led me to being able to sell my most recent business for nearly 200 million dollars. Why am I sharing all this with you?

Speaker 1 Because I've been in your shoes, feeling the same exact feelings that you are. And if I knew back then what I know now, life might have been a lot easier for me.

Speaker 1 Unfortunately, I can't travel back in time, but I can help you so that you don't have to. How?

Speaker 1 I package everything that I learned into over 150 videos all about my wins and mistakes that I've made in business over the years. And I want to give you access to these videos.

Speaker 1 But it's so much more than just a bunch of videos. I've created a community of home professionals just like you where people interact and and share ideas with each other.

Speaker 1 Plus, we host live calls every single week where you get direct access to people like myself and my business partners that were a part of these different ventures who are experts in marketing, operations, software, and even more.

Speaker 1 All you have to do is book a free call with one of our team members to see if this would be a good fit for you.

Speaker 1 That way, I can help you take your business to the next level, making you a next level home pro.

Speaker 1 Speaking of which, speaking of which, is there anything like in that regard that you regret like i mean are you are you happy with the way that life's gone and which part just family relationships

Speaker 1 is there a struggle at any point there uh i mean there's always going to be struggle but it i i don't think there's any regrets i think i would do it pretty much exactly the same you know what i mean if i could

Speaker 1 make it hurt her less then absolutely yeah for sure like you know because

Speaker 1 like even her here now like my my baby mom is like a couple rooms down like you know what i mean like we're all we're all cool we're all still together you know what i mean it's still yeah we still chill like i was at sound check yesterday and my wife and my baby moms was at dinner yeah just chilling you know what i mean like so it's it's like i i know there are obstacles and there's things that we had to grow up into

Speaker 1 there's a lot of immature things i did obviously because you know maybe don't give a 19 year old 40 million dollars i don't know you know what i mean but so at what point at what point did you make 40 million bucks?

Speaker 1 I was 19 years old.

Speaker 1 All that came all at once. Yeah.
Like, how? How was that all paid out?

Speaker 1 Publishing. It was a lot of publishing.
So, like big bonuses, big sign-on type stuff. Yeah, so they knew they were going to obviously recoup super fast.
So, yeah. And just, I asked for the top.

Speaker 1 I just shot for the moon, and they were like, okay, cool. I was like, oh,

Speaker 1 I should have asked for more than that.

Speaker 1 So, that was all when you were 19. Yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So, 19, 40 million bucks, from basic, what I know, I mean, that ran dry at one point. I ran dry in nine years.
Took me nine years to get rid of all that. Burned through all that.
I had no idea.

Speaker 1 So what year was this that you ran out? This was 2014? 2014. It's gone.
Yeah, 2014. I was like.
Where did it all go? I have no idea. I have no idea.
I kind of have some ideas, but,

Speaker 1 you know, we're

Speaker 1 in some court cases about that right now.

Speaker 1 it who's managing your money at this time? Oh, one of my managers. Yeah, you know,

Speaker 1 with you? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So one of my managers was also my business manager.
I had two managers that were working together.

Speaker 1 So they're taking all your money, supposedly investing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they're not, they're they're

Speaker 1 I don't know what they're doing with it to be totally honest. Yeah, you know, I know I was I was frivolous, but I mean, you're swiping the card with the expectation.
I'm not swiping.

Speaker 1 That's the crazy thing. I don't have access to my money.
Really? I never had

Speaker 1 all this stuff for you. Until, no, so I had, so I had my account and I had to call my managers to be like, hey, yo, I want to buy this thing.
Can you send me some money to my card?

Speaker 1 And then that's how I got money. I thought that's how it worked.
You're asking for permission to use your own customers. So to use my own money.
So they came and got me when I was 18 years old. Right.

Speaker 1 So I'm thinking that's just how that works. This must be big business stuff.
I didn't know about business back then. So it's like, yeah, this must be how it works.
I didn't read contracts.

Speaker 1 I don't give a shit about this.

Speaker 1 Give me money.

Speaker 1 You know, it's crazy. So my buddy Kenichi Udeza,

Speaker 1 he was a like top six draft pick in the NFL.

Speaker 1 Got 10 million bucks over like a period of three years. And same thing.
They set him up, you know, his manager was the same thing. Like he had to ask for permission.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 they frame it like. This is how you, we're going to make sure your money is safe.
We're going to take care of you. We're going to make sure your money is safe.

Speaker 1 So if you need money, tell us how much you need. We'll document it.
We'll make sure it's in the records all that is good and in the back they're like embezzling yeah

Speaker 1 you know what i mean it's it's crazy but and so so at this point you're like you don't even know what you're paying your manager no dude that's crazy of course not that's crazy so you have no idea who's on your payroll for how much yeah like they they they own 50 of my independent label i didn't even know that like for a while until like one of my producers wanted to get off the label and i was like all right go ahead and it was like no i we i need to go ahead from both sides.

Speaker 1 Like, both sides of what? It was like, well, your managers own 50% of your companies. They got to let me go too.
And I'm like, what?

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 You're telling me they essentially had a 50% equity stake in you. Yeah.
That's wild. So everything, they were taking 50 cents on the dollar.
Yeah. Oh, my goodness.
Yeah. And legally.
Right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, because you, because you signed the contract. They made the record label.
for me. Wow.
They were like, you're registered. You're good.
We signed everything for you. You're good.

Speaker 1 So of the 40, they took 20.

Speaker 1 At least. At the very least.
At least. That's before embezzlement.
And that was, you know, and that, and that was fair to me because I thought that's how it worked. Right.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 And you weren't taught any different. That's the only knowledge I had.

Speaker 1 What did your dad do growing up? He was a public speaker. He was a, he worked at the city electric thing.
It was called City Electric. I don't know if that was a money laundering.

Speaker 1 It didn't focus group that name at all. It was like, he ran the electricity for the city.
It's all for all of us. I mean, mean, not a lot of money.

Speaker 1 Oh, no, oh, yeah, no, he had an entrepreneur as well, okay. So, you know, I mean, he hustled, he hustled.
So, we had a food truck, he had two restaurants.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow, like we ran it for a while, but also, people were stealing from the restaurant. So, I mean, it wasn't like you grew up, you didn't grow up in the projects or anything.

Speaker 1 Oh, no, no, no, oh, no, we grew up in five-bedroom homes, oh, nice, like, but these are homes that, like, my dad built these like with his hands. Okay, like, I made a I mean, he was a hustler.

Speaker 1 I thought i was gonna have a career in breaking drywall

Speaker 1 like it was always around building materials and it like my dad was building our house like we lived in a trailer yeah we lived in a mobile home and he built a house in front of the mobile home really because we had a lot of front yard and he was like that's enough for a house okay we can build a house right there and we he built a five bedroom house in front of our mobile that's amazing had that and then and then sold the sold the mobile home and then we had a giant backyard and it was that was like yeah we were good we were good yeah yeah you grew up

Speaker 1 But he wasn't like educating you on like finance or how to take care of you. Oh, no, he was stressed.
Yeah, he was done.

Speaker 1 He was like, look, I'm learning myself. Y'all just watch me, I guess.
Watch me as much as you can because we're not doing great, but I'm holding on. We were struggling a bunch.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 But the little things that he did to make it okay, like, we want a house.

Speaker 1 I didn't learn how to build a house. Like, it shouldn't be that hard.
Irish people do it, I think.

Speaker 1 so it was just like you know he he did little things to really you know make our lives really cool you know what i mean we always had new cars he always had cadillacs we got the we got like the first like new suburbans that was always out like we kept switching suburbs it was i don't know where he was getting money from it was crazy

Speaker 1 so

Speaker 1 So at what point, I know you had like set up like DJ equipment in your room when you were 10 years old.

Speaker 1 was that when you're like man i love this stuff or at what point i had no so what happened was is he brought me or my mom brought me a keyboard from a flea market it was one of them stupid keyboards that had like the bongos on the top and it was very dumb it was like a little cassios and

Speaker 1 and um my dad's favorite song was lift every voice and sing and um

Speaker 1 And change gonna come. So

Speaker 1 I learned how to play the top line of Lift Every Voice and Sing on the keyboard. And my dad was, it was just, it was like the first time he was like proud, proud of me.
Because again, we didn't show.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 that was like the first time he was like,

Speaker 1 that's you did really good, son. I'm like, oh, so he gave you a compliment.
Yeah, I was like, oh, that was like the first compliment you received. Yeah, I'm like, I want to do this all the time now.

Speaker 1 Like, you were so good. I'm going to learn more songs.
So

Speaker 1 he found a keyboard on the side of the road that looked like it's still working. It did.

Speaker 1 It had ants in it.

Speaker 1 Just the screen turns on. There's ants crawling across the screen.

Speaker 1 But,

Speaker 1 you know, I hooked it up to my brother's stereo system. And any song that came on the radio, I would learn the bass line and things like that.
And I learned how bass lines work.

Speaker 1 And like, oh, that don't even go with this song, but it's somehow doing it. And I started kind of teaching myself music theory somehow.
Yeah, well, you know, so it kind of so it was natural.

Speaker 1 It came like you had something in you that was like

Speaker 1 connected. Absolutely.
And just

Speaker 1 matching tones and notes with the songs that was on the radio and having to learn a song in that time span that it was on the radio. I can't rewind.
I can't pause.

Speaker 1 I got to learn it while it's happening. That song goes off.
That's the last time I'm hearing that song for a little bit.

Speaker 1 Did you ever have a cassette player that you were like recording stuff and then released? Yeah, ours didn't do that.

Speaker 1 Ours did not do that. Yeah, because I mean, we grew up at the same time, right? Yeah,

Speaker 1 and so you know, the technique receiver, that was it, right? That was it. So, you know, I learned, you know, how to do balance and

Speaker 1 just hook up that stuff and bring it out to the speakers. And, man, it was a game changer.
So

Speaker 1 it really helped me out. And

Speaker 1 I think I kind of learned music theory on my own. That's pretty cool.
Weird. And so, you know, obviously you're credited for being like...

Speaker 1 essentially the king of auto-tune right like the guy that like really made it and pushed it famous and you collabed with all kinds of different artists on on it or whatnot so like, at what point did you say, like, I want to do this or I'm going to make this my thing?

Speaker 1 Man, that was, I think I was

Speaker 1 16. Oh, really? 16.
Because I remember that.

Speaker 1 That's when you like found out. That's when I delve into it.
I was doing it again at 10.

Speaker 1 And like, my dad

Speaker 1 started buying me equipment when I was 11. Yeah.
You know what I mean? Because he was like, oh, you're, you might be good at this shit. Like, you know what I mean? So

Speaker 1 when I was 10 i would go to a friend's house uh you know daryl daryl johnson he had a he was like the only person in the neighborhood with a studio and i would go there and obviously he didn't have time to you know have a 10 year old over there correct trying to do music all my shit was whack and you know he would have me kind of play music for him and do hooks and stuff like that but anything i would try to do my own was terrible and you know understandable like get out of my studio dude i'm not about to sit here and it was in his bedroom so you know he had a girlfriend he was like dude dude, I'm not about to have this kid in here.

Speaker 1 It's my bedroom. You get the out of your kid.

Speaker 1 So one time it like hurt me real bad because I thought I had a good idea. And I was like, I really wanted to, I really wanted to record.

Speaker 1 And he was like, just, you can't, no, you don't feel like doing that right now, which is understandable. Again, it was trash.

Speaker 1 And I went home crying. And my dad was like, what are you crying about? And I told him what happened.
He was like, oh, well, I'm going to get you your own studio then. You're good.

Speaker 1 Just give me a little bit.

Speaker 1 Again, I don't know where he was getting money from.

Speaker 1 You come up with it. He just, he just, he got me a Faustex eight-track recorder,

Speaker 1 Kawhi workstation keyboard. And after that, I was,

Speaker 1 I just, I went crazy. You know what I mean? I got him on them old Bob Barker microphones.
Right. And I was, I just recorded every day, just back-to-back, non-stop.

Speaker 1 I learned how to work that in like two days. And I was just on it, man.
And my dad knew a lot of people in the music industry.

Speaker 1 so he would have people come by and like give me mixing tips and stuff like that like all my mixes were straight up and down they're like you need to pan this and do that so it was it was a lot of learning going on but

Speaker 1 yeah man about 16 because i know i was 16 because the first time i laid down a song to where i was like this sounds like a real song the first line was i ain't nothing but 16.

Speaker 1 And that's the only part I remember that shit.

Speaker 1 But I do know that that was the moment I was like, this sounds like a real song. so and that was an auto-tune no that wasn't no auto-tune came

Speaker 1 yeah what point man that was

Speaker 1 oh my god that was probably 2000

Speaker 1 three or four and so you were what 19 at that point 20 19 20 at that point what time is it Yeah, because you were born in 84? Yeah. 2003? 19, yeah? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 So it was like, that was, yeah, that was right. That was right when I kind of got on it.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Was there like a specific decision? Had you already signed your record label at this point? No. Okay.
No. And was there a decision that, like, I'm going to own this? This is going to be my thing.

Speaker 1 Or was it just worked? And I was like, this sounds cool. I had no intentions on that being my thing at all.
Yeah. I just wanted to hear it because I heard it on a Jennifer Lopez song.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And once I heard that, it was on one of those mix CDs, those legal mix CDs, the like the now, the now, that's what i call music cds it was on one of those it was uh if you had my love i love the now cds dude oh my god those were it back man and then and the crazy circle to that is that that's where i got auto-tune from and i ended up on three of those really like you know what i mean so yeah that's cool so i heard it on a jennifer lopez song and then i just went on a search for it i was like i don't know what that is called but i want to do that because she only did it for like two seconds And I was like, I want to try to do that for a whole song, but I don't know what it's called.

Speaker 1 I got a bunch of crack DVDs from my friends of plugins and stuff, and I just kept going through, kept going through.

Speaker 1 I went through every plug-in and every preset of every plug-in. That shit took me six days to go through all this stuff.
To find it. Because these are writable DVDs.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of data on these shits at that time.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Not a gig, but it felt like it. You know what I mean? So a lot of data to go through.
And presets.

Speaker 1 are what the two kilobytes like that's i went through every preset of every plugin i have and i i came up on auto tune and i found it i was like oh my god i finally found it on the sixth day and did you love was it love at first sight you're like oh absolutely i was ready to use it the second oh my god like i got right on it i redid a black street song because teddy riley was using the talk box and i thought that was pretty much what it was but it wasn't that it was just auto-tune man and you know to find out that it had been available since 1997 i was like oh i've missed the train on this so i didn't think think i was discovering anything right it was just something new for me that i wanted to explore but i had no intentions on that like being my thing it just worked because my weird ass voice already

Speaker 1 but at that point nobody was really owning it right like yeah but it was like everybody thought talk box was auto-tune okay because it was kind of the same thing everybody was comparing me to roger troutman

Speaker 1 uh Peter Frampton. Like it was, it was a lot.
Like it was just like what I don't know what any of that is. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't own a talk box or anything.

Speaker 1 So, once I came up on it, when all the comparisons started getting made, I was like, oh, I guess kind of, yeah, you know, but again, that was not my intentions at all. It just kind of worked.

Speaker 1 And it was just like, I'm not doing it for anything. I just like doing it now.
It's like singing in the shower. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Like, you don't, if you say, if you sound good in the shower, you, you know, when you get in the shower, oh man, I'm happy. You're good, sing.

Speaker 1 You put on some music now. Maybe you weren't doing it with music before, but now you put on music.
And so you can sing in the shower because I sound really good in here. And now that's your thing.

Speaker 1 That's your happy time in the morning. So when I found AutoTune, I was like, man, I like how this sounds.
I want to, I want to keep doing it because I like how it sounds.

Speaker 1 Not because I think it's going to sell or it's going to make some hits or anything like that. I just like how this sounds so much.
And that's where everybody else got caught up in it too. Right.

Speaker 1 Because they started doing it. They did.
It was like, hey, what's that T-Pain be using? And then the engineer would put it on the studio and they're like, oh, I sound good. Let's do this.
Let's do it.

Speaker 1 We need to do a song like this. Wait, let me hit record.
Let me see what I can do. And then they get caught up in it and they keep doing it.

Speaker 1 So, what, so, were there a point in your career that you ever regretted going all in on auto-tune?

Speaker 1 Never, never felt, you know, because I read some things. I don't know, you can tell me whether they're true or not.
Was like after

Speaker 1 what's his name, uh, Jay-Z came out, yeah, right? Jay-Z came out, and he did the death of auto-tune song or whatnot. Yeah, no, I didn't, I didn't regret it.

Speaker 1 And did did that hit, did that hurt you when it went out when he called you out? Financially, hell yeah.

Speaker 1 If Jay-Z says something, that's it. Right.
You know what I mean? If he says, stop wearing this brand of clothes, nobody's wearing that brand of clothes anymore. Yeah, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 So if Jay-Z came out

Speaker 1 and just and said anything, you know what I mean? That, like, that's, you know, I don't know. I'm not saying he did it intentionally or anything like that, but.
I mean, he called you out by names.

Speaker 1 He said y'all T-Painted too much, which means he was talking about other people doing what I'm doing too much. So I understood that part, but it was like

Speaker 1 nobody's making it that far. Right.
You know what I mean? Nobody's making it that far into the song. So it's like

Speaker 1 everybody got the message. The name of the song is Death of Auto Tune.
Jay-Z says death of Autotune. It's over.
Jay-Z says death of anything. It's over.
So that crushed your career. It crushed.
And

Speaker 1 here's the really messed up part.

Speaker 1 Right before he dropped that song, I was on so many songs on the radio. Me and my managers decided, like, yo, we need to take a break.
You need to stop doing features.

Speaker 1 You need to stop putting up music. You're on too much.

Speaker 1 There's just too much T-Pain. Too much T-Pain out there.
Too much T-Pain out there. And we're like, you know what? Let's stop.

Speaker 1 And I was going at such a pace to where it was just continuous T-Pain all the time. And then we decided to stop.
And then there was no T-Pain for a while. And then Death of John.

Speaker 1 So it's basically like. So it looked like

Speaker 1 he stopped you from

Speaker 1 you know what I mean? So that was the worst part of it, but regret no

Speaker 1 regret there, no, not at all. So, you know, I mean, is there because clearly you have an incredible voice, you know, I watched all your mask masks.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the mask singer, yeah, yeah, I mean, and uh, man, the range of your vocals on all variety of music was impressive. Thank you.
Impressive to say the least, right? And so

Speaker 1 was there any regret that, like you never pursued that? No, no. I mean, because I would have just been another singer.
Yeah. You know what I mean? I would have been another voice.

Speaker 1 So your brand, you love the. Right.
You know what I mean? That's why I don't regret it because it set me apart. Like, you know what I mean? That's, that's, you know, I like that.

Speaker 1 So no regrets, but do you wish that more people knew about how

Speaker 1 incredible of a vocalist?

Speaker 1 It would have been

Speaker 1 regardless. They would have found something bad.
You know what I mean? They don't care. They don't really care.
It's the fact that I was distinguishable, You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 I think that's what matters the most to me because even if I would have came out with my voice and sang songs and shit like that, they would have found something to not like.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's always going to be a hater.

Speaker 1 They'll find something to not like about me.

Speaker 1 I love the fact that you owned a brand, right? Like, because I think anybody that goes and does anything incredible, they do something that's distinguishable,

Speaker 1 recognizable. Absolutely.
You know, I mean,

Speaker 1 let's talk about Donald Trump, right? Yeah. The most ridiculous hairdo in the world.
And he's the only one that got it, but he's the only one that got it, and he's stuck to it, man. Right?

Speaker 1 He's not gonna, he's not gonna stop. He's not gonna stop, and he knows because he knows he's like, This is my brand.
This is what I got,

Speaker 1 absolutely.

Speaker 1 Regardless of what happens to it, he can lose some of it. He's gonna keep it exactly how it is, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's just, yeah, yeah, you gotta, you gotta know, you gotta know what your brand is doing, yeah. And he probably hates his hair.

Speaker 1 Oh, he probably hates it all, and probably his orange skin, man. He probably hates both of those.
He hates all that, but he's like, the people like this, man. I gotta keep doing it.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, I mean, look, man,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 people are going to hate you for something, especially if you're successful. That's that's always the case.
And

Speaker 1 I've learned that from being successful, and then I've learned that from not being successful, then being successful, and then not successful again, and then successful again.

Speaker 1 You get to see these patterns. Like when you

Speaker 1 succeed and fail within

Speaker 1 one career, you get to see where people's parameters are. You get to see, like, if I'm down, everybody's so cool.
Yeah. Everybody's chilling.
You're like, all right, you're one of us now.

Speaker 1 And then you get successful again. And it's like, what makes you so good at everything? Like, it's just like, wait, what? I was just one of you.
And they're like, nope, you got money now again.

Speaker 1 So now. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. My buddy Alex says, you know,

Speaker 1 people cheer for an underdog until they become

Speaker 1 until they outperform a round. Absolutely.
Absolutely. And that, and that, you know, it only makes, it only makes sense

Speaker 1 to people that don't plan on being successful. Right.
You know, it's, it's,

Speaker 1 envy

Speaker 1 can only turn into motivation if you plan on doing something with that envy. You know what I mean? So it's like,

Speaker 1 if you see somebody that's successful, you can either say, I hate that guy, or I want to be like that guy.

Speaker 1 It's not, there's no in-between. There's no, there's no, good for him.
I'm just go back to what I'm doing. There's no envy there.
There's nothing, there's nothing to act on.

Speaker 1 But if you act on it, it's either envy or motivation. That's, that's just the two things that you got.
And I don't,

Speaker 1 I don't get the middle. I don't get the middle.

Speaker 1 So, so you've been able to bounce back from losing it all. Yeah.
Right. Like, what are the biggest like principles and takeaways that you've been able to recognize?

Speaker 1 You're like, oh, this is what, how I can make it back. This is how I can get back.
The first thing you got to recognize is nobody's going to help you.

Speaker 1 Nobody's going to help you because everybody's got their own problems. Everybody's struggling.
Even rich people.

Speaker 1 Rich people just have

Speaker 1 more expensive bills. More money, more problems.
More money, more problems.

Speaker 1 It's not, it's not, you know, everybody's like, you know, they obviously everybody hates when celebrities or rich people say that money doesn't solve problems. But it doesn't.
It doesn't. It doesn't.

Speaker 1 And we're only saying that because we found out because we thought that's what was going to happen. And then when we got it, it was like, oh, we got to do it.

Speaker 1 I still got issues. Yeah.
Still got issues.

Speaker 1 My parents still aren't saying they love me.

Speaker 1 My brother died. Couldn't fix that with money.
I was

Speaker 1 like, money's not going to fix those major things. Obviously, it'll make you comfortable.
Yeah. It'll make you comfortable.
It'll make you, it'll, it'll calm your bills down.

Speaker 1 People won't be calling your house. Rental center won't be showing up.

Speaker 1 Like, you're good. You're good at those aspects, but problems.
Money won't solve your problems. Money will solve your financial issues, but they won't solve your problems.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 That's the major thing that people need to figure out. And we're only saying that we're not trying to keep anybody from getting money.
Just absolutely. Go get money.
Please be rich. Yes.

Speaker 1 We want everybody to be rich. Absolutely.
Be rich, but when you get there,

Speaker 1 do not think that your life is just going to be great.

Speaker 1 And I wish I would have had somebody tell me that.

Speaker 1 Nobody told me that. It was just like, bro, you get money, it's going to be cars, clothes, jewelry.
Everything's going to be fine. You're going to be set.

Speaker 1 That's the whole thing. Set for life.
That's a whole, that's, everybody says that. I'm going to be set for life.
Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 For a rude surprise. Oh, my.
Rude awakening.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I can set you on fire right now and

Speaker 1 you'll be flame retarded for the rest of your life in the next five minutes

Speaker 1 that's the rest of your life then there's nothing there's nothing that prepares us for you know obviously the unknown is

Speaker 1 the unknown is a scary place for sure and this is an unknown place but there's been so much exposure and

Speaker 1 there's been exposure of the good parts of what we do yeah so people think that's the whole thing obviously even

Speaker 1 even normal blue-collar middle-class people like they put their best parts of themselves on Instagram. They're not showing you the bad parts of themselves.

Speaker 1 And that's when you get those TikToks of people crying, like, I can't, I can't do this. But if you go in there TikTok earlier, they're living the best life possible.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 But when it got to a point to where they can't

Speaker 1 now, it's like, oh my God, okay, I'm going to tell you guys the truth. I hate my life.

Speaker 1 It's just like, you got to look at all that, man. You can't look at the right now.
You got to look at everything around, you know, the time. And it hurts to say, but

Speaker 1 sometimes it sucks.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 it's, it's, uh, even last night. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Man, I, I, you know,

Speaker 1 I got on stage last night. It was packed out.
Packed out. So many people.

Speaker 1 Even the club was like, this is the most people we've had in there. We had to open an extra area

Speaker 1 just to let more people in, you know.

Speaker 1 And when I got off stage, everybody cleared out. It was empty.
I mean, the club was empty. And my wife was like, all those people are here for you and i'm like yeah now they're gone

Speaker 1 just empty just empty right now i get to such a now i get to go to sleep like i just provided a

Speaker 1 up to a night of 4 a.m for entertainment for these people and now i i just get to go back in my room and just

Speaker 1 back to yourself play call of duty and whatever your problems are i just play call of duty and i gotta call my mom in the morning like now it's over yeah That's it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Back to work. Like, that's not it.

Speaker 1 The culmination never, never is really fulfilling. Yeah.
It's always. It's just like, I had a great time performing.
I love performing.

Speaker 1 That's like one of my favorite parts of their whole career is just like having a party with people.

Speaker 1 But when you have a party with people, you get to mingle, you get to talk and you get to meet new people and like that. It's just like, nope, T-Pain, give me what I need.

Speaker 1 And then I'm going to go enjoy the rest of my life. And

Speaker 1 you go back to this huge empty room, you know,

Speaker 1 it's just like, man,

Speaker 1 all those people came for me and now they're gone.

Speaker 1 Well, Payne, dude, I appreciate, appreciate your time. Appreciate the words of words of wisdom and just sharing the stories.

Speaker 1 Wisdom is a strong word.

Speaker 1 I mean, just the truth and the vulnerability of the ups and downs. I mean,

Speaker 1 what last words of encouragement would you give to the entrepreneur that's trying to make it out there right now? Talk.

Speaker 1 Speak.

Speaker 1 Say the weird thing. Just do it.
Just go.

Speaker 1 You know what? When you did ask me about regrets, that is a regret. Not talking.
Not saying what I was actually thinking. You know, we've been

Speaker 1 portrayed as this

Speaker 1 generation that

Speaker 1 that has anxiety when somebody asks us, do we want more ketchup? We can't talk to,

Speaker 1 we can't ask for directions and like that. It's talk.

Speaker 1 Say what you feel. Say it.
Say it out loud. Even if it's to yourself, say it.

Speaker 1 We all know those times where we're like, I had this idea, but now saying it out loud is stupid. So just say it.

Speaker 1 That weird thing you're thinking, get out.

Speaker 1 Be uncomfortable. Say it to the person that you want to say it to.
Get that out in the past because, man, if you, when you, when you, when you say out loud, it creates problems in the past.

Speaker 1 When you hold in, it creates problems in the future.

Speaker 1 That's good. You know what I mean? That's good.
Brother, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much for your time. Until next time.

Speaker 1 Gang.