Case Files 08: Jesika Jones Part 3 with Derek Jones

Speaker 1 True Story Media.

Speaker 1 Hello, it's Andrea. Today we've got part three of our series on the Jessica Jones case out of Texas.
This is the second half of my conversation with Jessica's ex-husband, Derek.

Speaker 1 The details of this case are just astounding, and I'm so appreciative of Derek for coming on to share his experiences.

Speaker 1 Being able to talk to other people who have personal experience with this really remains one of the most rewarding parts of my job.

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Speaker 1 Now, here's the episode.

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Hey, it's Andrea.

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I am the daughter of an immigrant. I stand with immigrants.

Speaker 1 Immigrants make this country great.

Speaker 2 And that's when I really got in touch with Detective Weber, who I will say first off, he's Godsend.

Speaker 2 Love that man to death. He contacted me the next day after all this came out.
And he's telling me, hey, watch for these type. This is the type of behaviors they'll do.

Speaker 2 This is what she said and everything. And I'm still in a shock at this point.
I'm like, you know, did this really happen? Like, I was still, my mind was blown.

Speaker 1 It must have felt like

Speaker 1 you're suddenly in a horror movie, right? Like, it's just like you thought you were in a normal movie and now you're just like, oh my God, I'm in a horror movie and I didn't know it.

Speaker 2 Exactly. That's what it felt like.
It was like your life just completely did a, you know, 180. It's like, what is going on?

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 they go and interview her a couple days, two or three days later and come to find out.

Speaker 2 I also found out that she had two other empty prescription bottles in her purse or not empty.

Speaker 2 There's two prescription bottles in there, both of them, which she had gotten filled while she at the cook's pharmacy while she was in there.

Speaker 2 One was a 30 count and one was a 60 count. The 30 count was empty and I think the 60 count had like, I think, I want to say 15 pills left that disappeared in three, three and a half days.

Speaker 1 Oh my God. Oh, she got them filled while she was there.
So they knew. Oh my God.

Speaker 2 She said that she only gave, you know, one or two to the youngest while they were in there. But we really don't know how much she gave her of those.

Speaker 2 come to find out she had probably given her roughly about i want to say it was close to 48 adult benadryl in those three and a half days um so that's why she was so

Speaker 2 when she was down she was really down apparently all this time that i thought i was losing her

Speaker 2 she was being come to find out the eldest one she was 12 and

Speaker 2 She knew something was off. So when I started saying things, she's like, I had an idea.
I had an idea.

Speaker 2 She's like, I was wondering why she was hiding this medicine under the bed or why she was doing this.

Speaker 2 Come to find out, she was giving the twins clonidine during the day so that they would sleep.

Speaker 2 There were two empty bottles of clonidine under the mattress. And so I don't know exactly what all she was giving her.
Supposedly she was giving her some of her. headache medicine too

Speaker 2 which was theoric

Speaker 2 i knew that the oldest took that

Speaker 2 so when we went and saw dr.

Speaker 2 Kaufman she's like hey I want you to get with her the oldest is new neurologist um but I think it's best that we start trying to wean her off her medicine the oldest one she's like because I don't think she needs any of it so I got with her neurologist and she they're like yeah start weaning her off a month later

Speaker 2 Actually, I take that back. Two weeks later, no medicine.
And to this day, she has only grown and blossomed. She missed out on a lot of her childhood.
So this all happened in June.

Speaker 2 We were on our way back from Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2 And she tells me, we get to talking, you know, the twins are in the back seat asleep. And she's up here talking to me.
And she's like,

Speaker 2 we get in the whole subject and about the whole CPS thing.

Speaker 2 And she's like, you know, kind of upset with me and all. But then she's like, dad,

Speaker 2 I want, like, she made me do this i'm like made you do what and she's like she made me tell cps

Speaker 2 that she was gone to dollar general i can't remember if she was going to get bread or whatever and while she was gone the the youngest had gotten into the medicine and i was like yeah that's that was the story she's like that's not what really happened i was like well what really happened she said

Speaker 2 We were, we, she was there.

Speaker 2 The youngest, we were all in the same room. She was sleeping and had left a pill bottle out.
And the youngest had got it. She's like, I noticed she was acting off, but I didn't know any different.

Speaker 2 She's like, then we fell asleep and we woke up. She was acting really strange, like out of it and just doing crazy things.

Speaker 2 And then that's when Jessica saw the pill bottle and was like, oh, crap. And she's like,

Speaker 2 she called the non-emergency number, poison control.

Speaker 2 and they're like you need to take her in to get her stop checked and so they can pump her stomach and she's like that's when she told me i needed to tell them this story otherwise i was going to be taken away from both of y'all and i wouldn't ever see y'all again and so that's why i did that i didn't know better i said baby i'm not mad at you like you didn't know better you're a kid she's like you know i knew that she had two boyfriends on the side i knew that she's like she made me keep all these things secret you two were married married.

Speaker 1 She had two friends on the side.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 She's like, she made me keep all these things secret, you know, otherwise it would cost, and I would lose you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And she's, you know, she'd tell me stories about how she had her go get money from people saying that, hey, can I have money to go get me this? And then bring it back to her so that she could use it.

Speaker 2 It was a holiday right before all this came out and we had went over to the grandmother's house just because uncle and dad were cooking burgers. And

Speaker 2 so the eldest one tell, you know, supposedly the oldest one had started

Speaker 2 her time of the month. So she's, she tells me later on, you know,

Speaker 2 that that's not what happened, that Jessica was wanting some of the grandmother's headache medicine.

Speaker 2 And so she had the oldest one go in there and take to the other bath, to her grandmother's bathroom. take pills and bring them back to her.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, oh, so she had you still in medicine for it too. And she's like, yeah,

Speaker 2 she tried to have me do that a lot. And I was like, I'm so sorry, baby.
Like, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 I feel like, and at that moment is when it really hit me hard because I was like, I failed my kids as a parent. I failed as a dad.
I did not protect them.

Speaker 2 And it was hard on me for the longest time, for a while. And, you know, Weber is, you know, he's the one that helped talk me through it.

Speaker 2 And he's like, they're such master manipulators and narcissists that they are very good at covering it up. And

Speaker 2 you can't be upset at yourself. It's not something that you believe you can trust this person.
And why would they ever lie about this? And, or that even this is even slightly going on.

Speaker 2 And I was like, I know it's just, as a parent, when that came out, it was like, I felt them.

Speaker 2 I didn't protect them. You know, and it was really tough for a while because I felt like a failure as a dad.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 Did you, at some point, you had a conversation with another dad who'd been through

Speaker 1 a case?

Speaker 2 Right after that, I did. And

Speaker 2 he talked me through it and he said, you know, I went through the same emotions.

Speaker 1 And this is George Honeycutt, right?

Speaker 2 Yes. I actually talked to him the other day when all this, the sentencing came out and everything to let him know.

Speaker 2 I had to work through that because

Speaker 2 as time went on, I was like, you know, there's no way for me to see it she was very good about telling one person one thing and the other person another and in a way that it would never get back to the two even if the two talked it would could never like she was

Speaker 2 perfect liar i mean she had it down to a t especially if you were right there with her oh yes yeah i remember thinking with my sister.

Speaker 1 So there's a couple of things I want to be sure I say to you.

Speaker 1 I know this feeling so well. I remember feeling like I could get away from her and kind of start to like wrap my heads around the facts.
And then I would go back to her and be like, what about this?

Speaker 1 What about this? What about this?

Speaker 1 And like while I was in person talking, it was almost like reality would just become distorted. And I would kind of leave the conversation being like, oh, okay, I guess that made sense.

Speaker 1 And then like, it didn't make sense, but it's just like, you couldn't, it was like, I couldn't even hold on to reality when I was with her.

Speaker 1 Like I couldn't hold on to what I knew about reality when I was actually sitting with her, when I was actually talking to her.

Speaker 2 Nail on the head. I couldn't that perfectly.
Yes. It was like,

Speaker 2 like when I look back at it now, like, it in reality,

Speaker 2 it's like, why didn't I catch things sooner? You know, there were signs there. And, but.

Speaker 1 I mean, I just, I want to, I want to tell you because I, I hear what you're struggling with. And, you know, I'm a parent.
I have a six-year-old and a two-year-old.

Speaker 1 And I, if I found out something horrible had been happening to them under my roof, I'm sure I would go through all those same emotions. And I think that's really normal.

Speaker 1 And as I'm sure you know from talking to Weber, who's been through more of these cases probably than anyone and has seen how people do react in these situations,

Speaker 1 you are,

Speaker 1 you did do the right and protective thing and you did protect your kids. I mean, I can tell you, like

Speaker 1 the situation in my family has been going, and my sister's never been held accountable despite two investigations and despite years and years and years of incidents with several different kids.

Speaker 1 And her husband has stood by her through all of it.

Speaker 1 And it does not matter what evidence you put in front of that man, video evidence, piles and piles of records, multiple investigations brought on by multiple hospitals, he will defend her.

Speaker 1 It doesn't matter. As many people, unfortunately, who will go down with the ship as will do the hard thing and the right thing and protect their children.

Speaker 1 And I can tell you that my niece and nephew have suffered. My niece has almost died.
It's like, it's not an automatic thing.

Speaker 1 You would think, you would think, I think being in your position, you know how that feels. You know what it's like to be confronted with that information.
You know how horrified you were.

Speaker 1 You know you did the right thing. It's really hard to envision how someone someone could be presented with compelling evidence and do the wrong thing, but many of them do.
And they become,

Speaker 1 I think, not just enablers of abuse. I think at a certain point they become part of the abuse, right? They're, they're the people who are, they're contributing to it, right?

Speaker 1 And, and you can see how this goes. I mean, it's like anybody who questions them becomes the enemy.

Speaker 1 And so, you know, if the, if the dad of the kids is not protective, there's nothing anyone else can do, you know, unless, unless there's a successful criminal investigation, which unless Mike Weber shows up,

Speaker 1 you know, and unless you have the right DA. I mean, the police in my sister's case did do a pretty thorough investigation, but it just was, you know, and that's like a whole other story.

Speaker 1 But I just, I wanted to say that to you because like.

Speaker 1 You did do the right thing. And I know this is very fresh.
Like this all just happened.

Speaker 1 So I hope that like, you know, as you go forward, and I know you've connected with some other people who've been through cases and you know George Honeycutt, who's wonderful. And,

Speaker 1 you know, I think that's why it's so important to talk to other people is because like you do need that perspective. Like you did do the right thing and there isn't any way you could have known.

Speaker 1 And we all trust the people. We trust our partners.
We trust our sisters. We trust our family members and our friends.
Like you can't, you can't go through life not doing that.

Speaker 1 And I think that is one of the hardest things is that like you get out the other side and now you can't trust people the way that you used to.

Speaker 1 And that's, that's a whole other challenge that you now have to deal with. But like, I just really want to say that to you.
Like this story, like you did the the right thing and you did it right away.

Speaker 1 You know, you didn't require months of convincing. You didn't require another investigation with another child.
It's really like you were protective and your kids are lucky to have you.

Speaker 2 I think honestly, what helped me really catch on is everything I'd already been through.

Speaker 2 And once I started getting clear of the being upset with myself right away, I started coming out of my depression and everything. Everything,

Speaker 2 it all started adding adding together. And I, you know, it hit me.
And it's like, I've got to do

Speaker 2 whether I failed my kids or not, I, you know, I didn't do my best to protect them, but

Speaker 2 from this point forward, I'm going to make sure that I never fail them again. I'm never going to, you know, I'm going to protect them to the best of my ability.

Speaker 2 And I want to give them the best childhood that I possibly can because

Speaker 2 They endured something that 99.9%, you know, most people don't even know, or something that kids shouldn't have to go through for somebody else's attention, for somebody else to have attention or want the, you know, and I look back and I believe that's what most of it was.

Speaker 2 She wanted the attention, you know, we would do the epilepsy walks and stuff and we would, they would be entered into them and she was looking into make a wish and it was it was for the attention.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, I never wanted attention in my life.

Speaker 2 Even if I did, I don't think I could want it to the point of hurting a kid, my own kid.

Speaker 2 There's never anywhere in a million years I could see myself harming one of my own kids, much less any kid, for my own well-being. And that's what it boils down to.

Speaker 2 But the longer it went on, the more clear I got. And the more I just wanted to

Speaker 2 really to this day, I want to do everything that I can to help bring awareness.

Speaker 2 And even if I can just help two two or three kids, that's two or three kids that get that much more of their childhood back. It hurts me to know that anybody goes through this.

Speaker 2 You know, kids don't deserve it. And

Speaker 2 looking back on it, that was the hardest part, like with the oldest one, is she knew the more it went on, like the older she got, hey, something, you know, I don't feel like I need this medicine, but mom says I have to take it.

Speaker 2 Or this is going to happen. You know, she had told me about an incident.
The only time that I really thought I saw her have a,

Speaker 2 where i got more of a glimpse of a seizure

Speaker 2 she had had a shoulder injury and it had been bothering her and she started freaking out and apparently what i was told was it was from the pain of that that threw her into a seizure so because she started having a seizure she gave her the rectal medicine it's like the rescue meds and

Speaker 2 Come to find out afterwards, the oldest told me, she's like, no, she gave me a couple of pills that it helped for the pain. And I didn't like the way it made me feel.

Speaker 2 I don't even, I don't know what it was. And she's like, so I didn't even know.
I didn't like the way it made me feel. I didn't know where I was.
Like, it just, it was making me just feel weird.

Speaker 2 And I was just, it made me shake. And I'm like, oh, okay.

Speaker 2 So I'm like, I am so sorry, sister. I wish I'd have known.
Yeah. She's like, you had no way of knowing, dad.

Speaker 1 Well, and she was, you know, you kind of mentioned this before of like, you know, they are such good manipulators and they have this way of like telling one person one thing and telling another person another thing.

Speaker 1 And then, sort of like, and especially when you're talking to kids who are obviously very, very much under their mother's influence, but with like her older daughter, you know, she's, and this is something we've heard from survivors a lot, right?

Speaker 1 Is that like their parent is telling them, you really are sick, but but you need this because of this thing, or you'll die, you know, or you have to tell the doctor this, or you have to, you know, lie about this or do this other thing because otherwise, you know, you'll get taken away from me or someone will take, you know, and really just make them really fearful of telling the truth.

Speaker 1 And they sort of have this, yeah, like thing of like, they're, they're making sure that people don't, you know, their kids don't say what's really happening because they're terrifying them of what will happen if they do.

Speaker 1 So it's really, really sad.

Speaker 2 And, you know, and that was the part that hit me is the oldest one, there was a lot of sports that she wasn't allowed to play because,

Speaker 2 oh, she had, you know, these restrictions because of she might have seizures and the heat might make her have them or if she gets hit just right, it might make her have them.

Speaker 2 And so, there was a lot she missed out on most of her childhood.

Speaker 2 You know, granted, she still has some, she's, you know, now a teenager, but she didn't get to experience going and staying the night at friends' house and having those sleepovers, slumber parties, and everything like that.

Speaker 2 And so, I'm just trying to give them the best life that I can now.

Speaker 2 You know, and as all that came out, then it moved into the DA's office, and that was a struggle within itself. That was the next battle.

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Speaker 2 Yes, she gets arrested.

Speaker 2 Weber gets a warrant together. Then once she gets arrested, she gets bailed out and gets sent to the DA.

Speaker 2 And from there, you you know weber told me he said you know it can take time these things aren't just a few months and we're done i start out with one da then apparently she moves offices so i get a new one the first one i had she you know she would stay in contact she's like hey just checking in any new news that you've heard this is where we're at right now

Speaker 2 The new one, I heard from him when he called me to tell me that he was my new DA.

Speaker 2 And then I didn't hear from him for another six, seven months once I started really calling him. Wow.
He wanted to, at first, it was, you know, these types of cases are hard to try.

Speaker 2 And this very well could end in probation. You know, I just wanted you to be prepared.
You know, we got to have, we got to have enough facts and everything.

Speaker 2 And he was wanting to really play it off like it was a probation case. And I'm like, I'd been doing some research on the side and I joined a group for

Speaker 2 other people that have gone through this or going through this. And

Speaker 2 I'm like, I know that a lot of this does end in probation. I know that a lot of them walk away.
And the ones that don't, they get a couple of years.

Speaker 2 I know that, but I know that we also have a lot of evidence in this one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this case is actually quite a lot more straightforward than a lot of cases we talk about. Like the

Speaker 1 induction part and the poison part is like there's blood tests and they found the pill.

Speaker 1 It's like they have a lot of like much more clear-cut evidence than sometimes you sort of have something where, yes, the overall picture, if you're able to look at that, then that is very clear that there's abuse, but you don't have like this incident that people can just easily wrap their heads around.

Speaker 1 Like she was poisoning the kids. She was giving them, you know, 48 pills of Benadryl, what have you, and causing these symptoms, and they could have died as a result.
Like it's a very straight line.

Speaker 1 And I know, you know, with many of Mike's cases, mental health and biproxy cases, they, it's not quite that straight, right? So it is, it did have that going for it.

Speaker 2 Well, you had her admittance to it. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 1 Because she made some admissions during her interview with Weber. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You had the evidence in the purse. You, I mean, she straight up said she did, you know.

Speaker 1 Right. Strong case.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 And you start getting all this stuff adding up more and more. But it was almost like the DA was uninvolved.
It was just, it was another case. Now, granted, I know they're busy.

Speaker 2 I know they got, you know, big caseloads,

Speaker 2 but, or big workloads, but it was almost felt like for the longest time that it was thrown on the back burner.

Speaker 2 You know, again, another continuance, another continuance. It just kept pushing out and kept pushing out.
And I'm like, hey, why do we keep pushing out here?

Speaker 2 And I was giving him names that I people that were close and I thought may be beneficial. They had information and come to find out he wasn't, I was finding out he wasn't talking to these people.

Speaker 2 And so at one point, I had had enough. So we'd got her, she went in there and

Speaker 2 she open pled guilty. They'd offered her a plea deal of 10 years.
I knew she wouldn't take that. She thinks she's walking away with probation.

Speaker 1 So open plead means you're pleading guilty, but you're not agreeing to the sentence they're offering. You're just going to say, I'm pleading guilty, and it goes to sentencing.
Is that basically?

Speaker 2 I think that so she said no to the plea and she went in and said, I'm guilty, but to open plea, she didn't want a jury trial. So she pretty much open pled guilty guilty to the judge.

Speaker 2 Where once they do that, they do what they call a PSI

Speaker 2 pre-sentencing investigation. So they pretty much, they have another investigator go through.
He contacts everybody and he writes down, he's neither for the defendant or the victim.

Speaker 2 He's for the judge. And what he does, he puts this story together for the judge, and he's not trying to make one side look better than the other.

Speaker 2 He's putting it together and and then putting what he has seen from it and what he thinks. And pretty much that's the whole trial for the judge.
So you don't have to go in there.

Speaker 1 Who does this? Is this this law enforcement? This is a DA that does this law enforcement.

Speaker 2 Law enforcement. So it was a police officer.
He works with the judge. You can still bring people in, but majority of it's done so that it's not

Speaker 2 two, three hour, full day, two day case, whatever. It's normally in and out 30, 45 minutes.

Speaker 1 Great, because they're not trying to get to the guilt or innocence verdict. So it's not like the full jury trial that we think of, like law and order.

Speaker 1 It's like the, it's the sort of a pared-down process.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he's putting, he's putting pretty much the whole scenario together for the judge. The judge can read it before he walks in.
And so I'm in communications with this PSI investigator.

Speaker 2 I'm not going to use his name, but he's a godsend too. That guy really goes above and beyond for his job, for the work he does and he put in the time and the effort and

Speaker 2 this guy right here weber will weber praises on this guy i mean this guy um

Speaker 2 he kind of he didn't go through the same situation but they had a you know he had similar but not similar situations so he kind of understood a little bit and you know he was like

Speaker 2 He talked to my oldest and he was very, you know, professional and just very calming to her. He got her to talk.

Speaker 2 And, you know, he's like, and during her investigation, he's like, hey, you know, once this is all done, your mom may or may not end up going to jail. But if she does,

Speaker 2 I don't want you to turn around and blame yourself for this. And

Speaker 2 she's like, hey, I hope it is my fault. I don't want her to be able out here to hurt any more kids.
And he's like, that right there says a lot about her. He said, that's a very strong kid.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a brief kid.

Speaker 2 But he went above and beyond. And so he's doing his investigation.
So she's out on bond right now, right?

Speaker 2 And she breaks her bond. Come to find out.
She her bond was she wasn't supposed to be around any persons under the age of 17 at any given time.

Speaker 2 Come to find out she broke it and she was around kids, had gotten this new boyfriend down south and apparently presented a nurse's badge down there.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 you know, telling them that the court date that she had to come up here to was because of something I had done yada yada so she gets caught for breaking her bond I'm like telling the DA's office is there like anything we can do to like pull her bond back now like a bond revocation or something like that like she broke it nothing was ever filed by the DA's office to revoke the bond and this is you know we know from talking to Weber that she was also poisoning other people's kids during this period.

Speaker 1 In fact, like it's not just that she had broken her bond conditions. Like, this seems like such a clear example to me of, like, someone who is dangerous to the community, right?

Speaker 2 I honestly, I feel like, and the more and more that it came along, I felt like she was searching for men with kids. So, when they originally booked her in on the first, the very first time,

Speaker 2 they booked her in.

Speaker 2 So, she was being charged for a class A felony, first-degree felony. And then that was on the youngest one.
And then the other, the other twin and the oldest one were each a misdemeanor.

Speaker 2 When they booked her in the very first time, they accidentally booked her in on

Speaker 2 the misdemeanors. So when she broke her bond, she got out for $100.

Speaker 2 Oh my God. Got to bail out.
So she got out.

Speaker 2 And I'm starting to feel like this DA that I have, he's, it had gotten to the point where when the cases were getting, the court dates were getting moved, he wouldn't notify me about the date of the court being moved.

Speaker 2 We were watching online to find out. We would know, and I'd call him and be like, hey, the date got moved.
Yeah, yeah, I just saw that.

Speaker 2 I was going to let you know that, you know, I saw that the other day. And I'm like, I never hear from you.

Speaker 2 But it was, oh, you know, sometimes too much is, I'm like, hey, this person right here, you need to talk to. Are we going to call these people from down south up?

Speaker 2 These women, the mom of the children down there. You know, the one I'm wanting to, and he's like, Well, you know, sometimes too much can be more harming than not.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, Are we not even going to just discuss it? And it more so once she pled open, pled guilty, it felt like it gotten to the point where it felt like, hey, we got her to plead guilty.

Speaker 2 Now we're just going to let it be how it is. She gets what she gets from that point.
And so I was like, no, I've had enough. I was mad.

Speaker 2 And I called his boss. And his boss, you know, reassured me.
He's like, no, he's very, he's very into this case.

Speaker 2 You know, he comes to me asking about it all the time, but I'm going to get involved on this one too. And I'll sit in on it.
From that point on, he was the only one I talked to.

Speaker 2 Fast forward, when we had the court date for the sentencing, the other DA that I had wouldn't even say a word to me. We went in two or three days before that.

Speaker 1 Mad, presumably, that you went over his head.

Speaker 2 You could tell very, very clearly because

Speaker 2 two or three days before that court date we went in for the pre-hearing to go over like you know everything

Speaker 2 he didn't say one word to me then he wouldn't even look at me and when i left he wouldn't even he didn't even the other two shook my hands the investigator for the da's office and the da i was dealing with now they both shook my hands he didn't he didn't even come to shake my hand and so i'm like okay okay it's fine like you can be upset but I'm fine with that.

Speaker 2 Be mad at me all you want, but I'm going to do what I need to do and what I have to do to get the justice for my kids that they deserve.

Speaker 2 You may not have see, you may not see it that way, or you may think I'm being too much, but I know what they had to endure. And I'm not just going to let you lay down just because she pled guilty now.

Speaker 2 I've seen what else she can do. Welcome to find out.

Speaker 2 She breaks her bond again.

Speaker 1 A second time.

Speaker 2 A second time. Just three and a half months later.
After the first time, three and a half, four months later. This time she's gotten a boyfriend there in the town she lives in.

Speaker 1 Another different boyfriend.

Speaker 2 A different boyfriend. This one had an older daughter that was around my oldest daughter's age that doesn't have a mother figure and had a little, a younger boy.
And

Speaker 2 come to find out, she apparently had told this, that, that girl that if her and her dad ever broke up, she was going to kidnap her so that she could come live with her.

Speaker 2 She was trying to take her out of state to Florida on a vacation when she didn't even have a car, doesn't have a job. Number two, you're not supposed to be around kids.

Speaker 2 The boyfriend helped out, helped her get the cops pick her up. And I get after the DA's office.
I'm like, are we filing for a bond revocation? Like, this is the second time.

Speaker 2 Like, you just going to keep, okay, the first time, okay, we didn't file for one, but we also didn't ask for an ankle monitor nothing so that we can keep track that she's not going to hey walmart these big places where there's kids all around you know right just on her own reconnaissance yeah she's out here walking the streets like you and i like nothing's happened right and so so the people who are meeting her don't have any reason to think that she's a criminal right unless you're googling her up and knowing what to look at and i'm like we just keep letting this predator walk the streets like she's you're not treat they're not treating her like she's dangerous exactly and i'm like what else is it going to take?

Speaker 2 Is it going to take her killing a kid before we're lucky she's dangerous? So they finally end up filing for it. She gets her bond revoked.
So she's sitting in there.

Speaker 2 And we go to this pre-hearing meeting, me and the oldest. Now, backtrack, the oldest doesn't, the dad's never been there.
So I'm in the process of adopting her.

Speaker 2 We go in there and they're like, hey, we're going to talk to her first.

Speaker 2 You sat over here and then we're through with her. We'll talk to you.

Speaker 2 I get it. it they didn't want us in there at the same time so if we both went up on the stands you know they couldn't say you know we discussed everything we get to walk in out and she goes dad they

Speaker 2 they brought something up in there and i was like what and they're like they asked me if i knew who my real dad was and i told them no

Speaker 2 and they said is it such and such and she goes i don't know And they're like, yeah, that's him. And I'm like, are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 So I go in there i at this point i didn't know when i went in there with them didn't say nothing to me about it we're in the midst of the sentencing hearings now and they are talking the the lawyers are the da is talking to her before she goes on the stand yeah so we went in two or three days before they have you go in to go over like what the settings gonna be like and just questions just kind of prep prep okay so they're prepping the 13 year olds for to go on the stand and they reveal to her the identity of her biological father which she did not know before.

Speaker 2 Well, here's the part that really got me.

Speaker 2 They didn't tell me they did it. So I call Weber and I'm like, hey, is this something they do? And he's like, that's out of line.
Why would they do that? And they didn't ask you first.

Speaker 2 I'm like, no, if they would have asked me like, hey, does she know him? I would have told him no. So I call the DA that I'm dealing with now.
And I'm like, or he didn't answer.

Speaker 2 Weber said, hey, I'm going to text his boss and let him know that you're Matt. The DA's boss, I have now his boss.
So we're going to just keep moving up the chain.

Speaker 1 It's everybody's boss. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I get off the phone and I call the DA I've been talking to and doesn't answer. Five minutes later, he calls me back.
I pick up the phone and I said, hey,

Speaker 2 I have a question. And he said, I think I know what your question is.
And he's like, man, I apologize. I didn't know that she didn't know.
And I feel bad. I said, but here, hang on, hang on.

Speaker 2 Let me talk for a second.

Speaker 2 I said, if you were in my shoes and you had a child that didn't know certain information, poor important information, would you rather it come from you or somebody she didn't know?

Speaker 2 I get it. I get it.
And I said, this kid tells you she doesn't know and you proceed to tell her a name. So I'm frustrated.
I get off the phone.

Speaker 2 I call him back a little bit later and I ask him something and I'm like, hey, I got one more question on our, about earlier. How did you find this information out?

Speaker 2 And he said, It's what Jessica told us when we

Speaker 2 during the PSI. That's what she told the PSI investigator was this name.
And I said, So, number one, we're getting this information from a habitual liar that's lied about everything.

Speaker 2 Literally, come to find out everything out of her mouth was a lie. Number two, you told a 13-year-old this name, and that may not even be 100% her dad.
And now you got her going down a rabbit hole.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, You, you got to be kidding me. I'm sorry, I see what you're saying.

Speaker 2 I was like, So, instead of knowing for 100% proof, you took what a habitual liar said and said, Hey, here, here, this is your dad. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 Or your bio dad he's like we it's it was standard guys it's like standardized questioning we have to you know we it's like we're talking to her and we're asking her you know where if they try to ask her who you are to her that she sees you as dad and i'm like okay but when she tells you she don't know don't keep going He's like, well, after we said that name and she's like, oh, okay.

Speaker 2 We dropped it there. Well, that was too far.

Speaker 1 After we'd already said the thing, we didn't say anything else. Yeah.
I'm like, so that is wild.

Speaker 2 I was like, the moment we got home after that, she's like, hey, we looked this person up on Facebook. I want to see what they look like.
I'm like, so yeah, you did open up a whole rabbit hole.

Speaker 1 Right. Cause of course it's like, of course they're going to be curious.
Yeah. Oh my God.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, so, and come to find out, we can't even find this guy. And I'm like, so I had to break it to her that, you know, that may not even be the person.

Speaker 2 They're not 100% certain, but that came from her egg donor. Cause I don't refer to her as their mother anymore.
I tell everybody that's their egg donor.

Speaker 2 She doesn't, when she did what she did, she lost the title of being called a mother. She's an egg donor.
Um, so I was frustrated at that.

Speaker 1 So, how so? You go, you go through the sentencing hearing, and I mean, it sounds like at this point

Speaker 1 you're very worried that she's going to get off with probation because the DA has basically been telling you that this might end with probation.

Speaker 2 I was worried after she broke her bond the second time, it moved it to a felony. So I knew she had this on her.
I just found out that we were originally supposed to have an earlier sentencing date,

Speaker 2 but she

Speaker 2 got her attorney to get with the judge to ask for continuance because she had a heart something, something scan that she needed to go to.

Speaker 2 It was on that day.

Speaker 2 So the judge, you know, granted it because, hey, if she really does have a medical issue, let's get it taken care of, whatever. That day comes for,

Speaker 2 which I remember that day vividly because that was her birthday. It was June 25th.
And coming to find out, she didn't go to that heart doctor appointment. She told her family that

Speaker 2 the heart doctor or the person that was supposed to do the scan had called in sick.

Speaker 2 She told the heart doctor,

Speaker 2 the front office, that she wasn't going to be able to make it in because she was in the hospital with her daughter who had had five back-to-back seizures.

Speaker 1 Perfect.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, so just never, it never ends. It never ends.

Speaker 2 So come to find out after hearing stories, the latest boyfriend that she had,

Speaker 2 the most recent one, she had told them that she was a trauma nurse at JPS,

Speaker 2 had shown them pictures of like

Speaker 2 ER room with some blood and stuff in there. And said, this is one of the rooms that she had worked.
You know, this is, you know, while they were cleaning it up.

Speaker 2 She went as far as to finding cases somehow that had happened in there.

Speaker 2 And I don't know if she was Google, I don't know how she was doing it, but she was telling them stories about cases she worked while in there that were actual cases that happened at JPX.

Speaker 1 Stuff that was reported in the news, probably. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 she told them that her kids were with me for the summer.

Speaker 2 She got them back August 1st that's what she was telling everybody is that i i had them for the summer um told them that once they started catching on a little bit that

Speaker 2 everything was going to be wiped clean it was all my fault i was the one that did everything i was the one that was giving the kids the medicine and they had her attorney had the evidence to prove it and i'm like i found all this out during the sentencing trial while we were there and i'm like are you kidding me you're still trying to blame me yeah like you still cannot take responsibility for your actions yeah and that's what's completely compulsive right yeah and that's what i was telling the da's office everybody i'm like look she's always gotten away with a slap on her hand all the way through life her family's always bailed her out her uncle's always been there to bail her out i was like Until she gets hit with the harsh reality that there's consequences for your actions, she's never going to change.

Speaker 2 Now, granted, even with getting hit with this harsh reality, I doubt she changes because the moment her daughter walked up on that stand to testify, her emotion didn't change once.

Speaker 2 No remorse, nothing. The judge tells her she gets 60 years, no emotion.

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Speaker 1 So they have the sentencing hearing and then the judge makes his decision. And were you sitting in the room when that happened?

Speaker 2 I was. I was.
I was front row.

Speaker 2 Her attorney had asked for probation, said that she had, you know, had tried to commit suicide three times in her life. Once when she was 12 years old, when he said that, her mother went, what?

Speaker 2 And I'm like, I never heard of that before.

Speaker 1 News to her parents. Yeah.
Oh, boy.

Speaker 2 Apparently, once in high school and then once in

Speaker 2 jail.

Speaker 2 But he's like, you know, we think rehabilitation and probation, like we really think we can get her there. It'd be the best route.

Speaker 1 Like sort of, this is a woman who needs help, kind of that, that sort of thing.

Speaker 2 Yeah. She'd already went to therapy, whatever, twice.
And

Speaker 2 first time was a week. The second time was like a month since all this had came out in 2022.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 the judge sitting there and he's like, you know, he's like, I'm not going to say it. Actually, I am.

Speaker 2 We don't want you to commit suicide, but I can, you're a danger to society and I can't allow you to walk the streets. And he's like, and I'm going to sentence you to 60 years.

Speaker 2 Because I'd went in, I'd went, I had friends that were like, hey, you know, all that she got on her now, she's going to get 45. I was like, no, never.
I was like, I would put money on that.

Speaker 2 I said, most women either walk away with probation or just a couple years. That's it.

Speaker 1 I mean, even women that kill their kids. I mean, two of the most famous cases of child deaths,

Speaker 1 much, much lighter sentences. I mean, mean, that I was, I mean, that's shocking.

Speaker 1 Six years is shocking in one of these cases because not because it's too harsh, in my opinion, but especially for someone who's really showing in every way possible that they're going to commit it as soon as they have the chance again.

Speaker 1 But like, just because you don't usually see judges taking that this seriously.

Speaker 2 Well, I was telling people, if she gets 20, I'll be happy. 30, I'll be ecstatic.
And if she got 40 years, I'd sing hallelujah.

Speaker 2 It should have been, it shouldn't have even been a worry from a get-go because weber handed the da's office this case on a silver platter and they're like no let's just put it on a paper plate

Speaker 2 it's that's really how it felt i mean i had to fight them the whole time to stay after it um

Speaker 2 so once they said 60 i was just that the rest of that day I was in shock. I was, I couldn't even drive.
And I think it was also the shock that it was finally over.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because this sounds like it had been just a grind from like the moment that you discovered the abuse to like that that moment.

Speaker 2 I stayed and stayed on top of them. I know they probably hated me by the end, but I don't care.
You can hate me, but it's my kids that I'm fighting for.

Speaker 2 I had even went to the point of before the sentence was made or for the court date, I had tried to go to the elected DA

Speaker 2 of Tarrant County. I tried to set up a meeting.
The highest of the highest of the high you can go, Phil Sorrells. I tried to go there.

Speaker 2 and they're like, Why do you want a meeting? This is your DA. And I'm like, I know that's my DA, but I want to talk to this guy about how it's going and problems I'm having.

Speaker 2 Okay, I will have them get in contact with you. I have not to this day heard anything.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, we'll see when he's up for re-election. So,

Speaker 2 I want to do the best I can to get this known about not just my case, but this disease, this, this illness, whatever you want to call it, so that our DA's offices, our judges, our

Speaker 2 detectives,

Speaker 2 doctor, everybody needs to be more aware of this and know about it more. The society, you know, needs to know about it more.
There needs to be more things that can help, you know?

Speaker 2 And that's, and I've told, I told Detective Weber, I talked to him often now.

Speaker 2 And that's my goal for the rest of my life is to do what I can to help. I'm going to try to do whatever I can to come up with anything that I can think of.

Speaker 2 And it may be the silliest idea and everybody can shoot me down, but I'm going to do what I can to try to help implement things that can help to protect kids because first person that's supposed to protect them are the parents.

Speaker 2 And if when the parents ain't, somebody else has got to try to help. And

Speaker 2 kids grow up supposed to trust their parents and look up to them. Maybe I can help.
Like I said, even if I help two or three kids out, then I will feel accomplished.

Speaker 1 Well, we're sure glad to have you in the fight Derek I'm sorry for how you got here but um really

Speaker 1 really really appreciate you um coming on to tell your story because I agree with you that I think that awareness is is a big first step but I

Speaker 1 you know I'm so glad that you're doing so much to connect with the community and that will help you help them too. And like, you know,

Speaker 1 they're better off tackling how to sort of combat all of those things that we always hear from survivors. You know, they have time on their side, right?

Speaker 1 So it's, they're not trying to do that when they're 30.

Speaker 2 They're blossoming now. They're doing great.
They've, they've taken my girlfriend in.

Speaker 2 We've been together for two years and the girls don't talk, the youngest ones don't talk about Jessica anymore.

Speaker 2 Once in a blue moon, well, they bring her up, but they talk about how she's a bad person. They They now refer to my girlfriend as mother.

Speaker 2 They've attached. She's actually shown them what a mother figure is supposed to be.

Speaker 2 The oldest one is sucked right up to her.

Speaker 2 They're two peas in a pod. I swear half the time, if anything was to ever have me in her, she's going to choose her over me.

Speaker 2 Not really. I mean,

Speaker 2 she's going to be a daddy's girl, but.

Speaker 2 they've sucked up right to her. And, you know, so they're, they're really blossoming.
I mean, it's just great to actually see them get to grow and enjoy what childhood they,

Speaker 2 the oldest one gets to enjoy what childhood she has left.

Speaker 2 But then the other ones, they get to, you know, they were young enough that I want to just fill their life with joy so that maybe they can push most of those bad memories out.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Well, that's really beautiful. And I'm, I'm really happy for you and your family that you had a good outcome.

Speaker 1 And Jessica is where she belongs and will be there for at least quite some time. And thank you so much for taking the time to tell this story and share this with us.

Speaker 1 I know it's not easy to relive all these details, and I just, I really, really appreciate having your voice on here. It makes a huge difference to people listening.

Speaker 1 And, you know, we have a lot of survivors who listen. We have a lot of folks in the medical profession.
We have a lot of folks who work in various sort of child protection agencies.

Speaker 1 So it's really, you know, it really really resonates when you hear some story from someone like you. So, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 Hey, thank you for having me on here.

Speaker 1 Nobody should Believe Me case files is produced and hosted by me, Andrea Dunlop. Our editor is Greta Stromquist, and our senior producer is Mariah Gosset.
Administrative support from NOLA Carmouche.

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