Mailbag & Fan Theories

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I'm Jenna Fisher and I'm Angela Kinsey.

We were on the office together and we're best friends.

And now we're doing the Ultimate Office Lovers podcast just for you.

Each week we will dive deeper into the world of the office with exclusive interviews, behind-the-scenes details, and lots of VFF stories.

We're the Office Lady 6.0.

Hello.

Good morning.

Oh, I'm excited about today.

Me too.

Today warms my heart.

Warms my heart, brought me joy, and it's all because of you guys.

That's right.

And tell everybody what we're doing today.

Well, we are covering two very funny fan theories.

Yes, you guys had a lot to say about our is Toby the Scranton Strangler fan theory.

So we thought we would explore a few more that you have made us aware of.

But you guys, we're not going to debate these two like we did Toby is the Scranton Strangler, although I would really like to do another debate.

I would as well.

Yes, we need to find another debate topic.

Yeah, if you have any ideas.

Yeah, hit us up.

Yeah.

But today we're going to do more of a deep dive.

Yeah.

I took one.

Angela took the other.

I took, is Bob Vance in the Scranton Mafia?

I have thoughts.

I have lots of fan evidence

saying that he is.

And I'm going to tackle a fan theory.

You guys, it's pretty out there.

But it's called, Is the Office Actually Hell?

You told me about this.

Is Dunder Mifflin where you go?

If you go to the bad place.

Oh, boy.

Oh, boy.

But before we get to our fan theories, we also wanted to dive into some of the things we have found in our office ladies' mailbag because we picked up more mail from our P.O.

box and

we suddenly got a delivery that had been sitting at Earwolf since 2023.

Oh, you guys, we love hearing from you.

And here's the thing.

You know what?

We were both saying we're so thankful they didn't toss it out.

So thank you for bringing it to us.

And we went through it and it was was just, it was such a special day, Ange.

It meant the world to us.

It really was, Jenna.

You know, we were both so moved that

you all take the time to sit down and write us letters and cards and we were reading them and we were laughing and we were tearing up and we would interrupt each other.

We'd say, wait, wait, you have to hear this.

You have to hear this.

Or we would hold something up and You know, just thank you so much for your kindness.

Yes, your mail, it made us laugh.

It made us cry.

We appreciate you sharing with us.

And we're excited to share some of the treasures now with everyone.

Yeah.

Angela, do you want to kick us off?

I will.

I'm going to kick us off.

I mean, this just tickled me.

I want to shout out Dana L from Los Angeles.

Dana wrote us a card sharing what the office and our podcast mean to her.

They really kept her company and brought her joy.

And she says she appreciates our positivity, our friendship, and womanhood.

Then she said, please accept this silly book as a token of my deep gratitude.

You guys, it's a book titled, What Would Keanu Do?

When Angela opened this package, she squealed.

I did.

We got so excited.

Listen to this title.

It's What Would Keanu Do?

And then underneath it, it says, Personal Philosophy and Awe-Inspiring Advice from the Patron Saint of Whoa.

Again.

Again.

Keanu as a patron saint on the cover.

Yes.

It is written by Chris Barsanti.

Here is the summary of the book.

It says, this book examines everyday challenges people face and helps solve the same problems by applying the philosophical lessons exposed by Keanu Reeves or one of his films.

So if I gave you a problem right now, could you open up to a page in the book and tell me how to solve it?

Possibly.

All right.

It also has, and I'm quoting, keanu dotes.

Okay.

Like anecdotes, but Keanu dotes.

Keanu dotes.

Here's one of them.

And this is from Keanu himself, not one of his characters.

The simple act of paying attention can take you a long way.

Hmm.

Hmm.

So just sit with that.

Can I see this book?

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

All right.

I don't know who needs to hear this.

But

trust your gut.

For Point Breaks, Johnny, Utah, buying two meatball subs is a lesson in listening to your instincts.

I mean, Johnny, Utah.

It's

a deep thinker.

Didn't he also say surfs up, brah?

Well, Dana, thank you for that.

That is no doubt a gift that's going to keep on giving.

We might have to bring up some keano

key anecdotes as we move along, Office Lady 6.0.

Loved it.

Well, we would also like to give a very big thank you to Martha G from Virginia.

Martha, we got your Christmas pillows.

They are so stinking cute.

They are amazing.

They came with sweet handmade cards.

Mine had an orange cat.

Angela, yours had a hummingbird.

We love these pillows.

And you know what I love about them?

They're circles.

Everybody, I want you to, when I said pillow, you probably thought square, but oh no, they are like a patchwork pattern like you might see on a quilt, and they are a circle.

And I literally can't wait to put mine out next Christmas.

I can't wait.

I'm going to put this out every single Christmas.

Yes, every Christmas.

Martha, thank you.

Thank you.

It was our biggest box.

We were excited about it.

We thought, what's inside this giant box?

You made our day.

Next up for me, y'all know I love a wedding.

I love a wedding.

And I just want to give a shout out to every single person that sent us baby announcements graduations and of course weddings

you are so creative with your announcements and invitations I mean I'm just gonna highlight a few but I love them all first up Brittany Z in Lafayette Colorado she sent us a hand stitch stapler in jello with her wedding announcement oh my goodness isn't that so cute yes

I opened the invitation I didn't know this was gonna fall out of it this is adorable So creative.

Then we got a wedding invitation from Kelsey.

She wrote us to tell us how much she loved the podcast, and she also sent us a Keanu Reefs coloring book.

My goodness.

And then she said, I know how much you gals love weddings, so I wanted to share my wedding invitation.

It's from 2016,

but Jenna, this is so creative.

I mean, it looks like a book.

It looks like you're holding a little book.

Yes.

So her and her husband Walker got married in Georgia, and their wedding had a book theme come on their invitation is like a little book and when you open it up it's like the library card do you see the library card my this is definitely the most creative wedding invitation i've ever seen yeah and look you pull out the like catalog card like if you've checked out the book from the library yes and and then that's where you check if you're accepting or going That's the thing you send back.

Yes.

Wow.

Isn't that so cute?

I just couldn't get over it.

I'll put it in our stories.

So creative.

Next, I wanted to share this sweet note from Elise.

She married Zaid this past month in Arizona, and she sent us the cutest little stationery.

Look at this little cat.

So cute.

And this is what she wrote.

Dear Jenna and Angela, in 2019, my dad told me he thought I'd like a new podcast.

It was made by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

I became an avid office ladies listener right away.

It was right around the same time that I started dating this new guy.

Dot, dot, dot.

I love it, dot, dot, dot.

All these years later, and I've never stopped listening to your pod, and I'm about to marry that guy.

Wow.

It feels like your podcast has been such a real and meaningful part of this time in my life, and I can't think of any better ladies and besties to truly be my own besties and favorite storytellers, and most of all, two amazing moms during this chapter of my own life and girlhood.

Thanks for all that you do.

And they got married this year in January of 2025.

Congratulations and a big thank you to Elise's dad.

Right?

Thank you.

Isn't that so sweet?

Yes.

And then look Sam Cassie.

She said P.S.

Hi Sam.

Hi Cassie.

Hi.

Hi.

Hi Elise.

Congratulations on your wedding.

Lastly, I want to shout out Dan and Andrea, who sent out the cutest little invite cards that said, it is our wedding with the balloons.

Oh, that's so cute.

And they invited us all to their wedding.

They said, don't worry, we promise we didn't steal any of Pam's ideas and

we won't kidnap Angela.

They said they're still debating where to take their mini moon, maybe Niagara or Scranton.

Aw.

But anyway, so cute.

Everyone is so creative.

Thank you for sharing your invitations with us.

I love seeing your baby announcements, graduation invites, all of it.

Well, lady, I opened a couple that I want to share as well.

First of all, speaking of books, we got a baby shower announcement from way back in July 2023.

It was honoring Michelle D

from Carmel, New York.

And here's what I loved.

Now, I know this has become, I think, kind of popular with baby showers, but I sure wish this was around when I had my babies.

She said, one small request, please bring a book instead of a card.

By signing your book, we'll remember and share your special gift even when you're not there.

Oh, like a children's book?

Yes, this has become a trend where at baby showers, you bring a children's book and you write a little message in it.

And then your child kind of starts off with a library filled with not just great books, but messages from loved ones.

This is so wonderful.

I loved it.

Yeah.

I think this is a thing now.

Don't you wish that you had that?

I do.

Same.

Especially because people who are parents before you, they know the good ones.

Yep.

You might know a few from your childhood, but then they'll be like, oh, you also need to read this one.

Or

it's a great gift.

You know which one I always give as a baby shower gift?

Which one?

The tiger who came to tea.

My kids loved it.

It is like, I think over in the UK, this is like in the world of like Goodnight Moon

because the British know this book.

And it was actually a British person who gave it to me.

And my kids absolutely adored it.

It's about a tiger who comes over and eats all the food.

Came for tea and ate all the food.

I think it's an oldie but a goodie over there.

Well, one of the books my mom saved from when I was a little one and I still have it was The Story of Ferdinand.

Oh, yes.

Yeah.

So I read my actual copy of Growing Up to Isabelle, and it's still in publication.

So that's one that I give as a gift.

Well, I also want to shout out a big congratulations to Mackenzie M, who sent us her graduation announcement from Arizona College of Nursing.

She's a nurse.

Mackenzie, thank you.

We need nurses.

Yes.

And good luck in your new career.

Next up is a letter that we got from Camille in Tennessee, and it just warmed my heart.

Camille says that she listens to the Office Ladies podcast to keep her company.

She lives with her cat, Dolly Parton, and she says whenever she gets home and sees Dolly, she says, hey lady.

Camille, thank you so much for your letter.

It just brought me so much joy and hi to Dolly Parton.

Hey lady.

And then also she went to Iceland and she went to the penis museum and she said the biggest one there is the sperm whale penis.

Here's a picture of her with it.

She sent a Polaroid, a tiny Polaroid from the penis museum.

That is incredible.

This is her and Dolly, Dolly Parton.

What a great name for her cat.

I thought that was so cute.

Anyway, Camille, just thank you for your letter.

It just, it brought me joy.

Well, I love the reminder that we need to get to this penis museum.

We need to make this a real goal.

We're very good, Angela, when we get determined and we set a goal, we make it happen.

So I think we need to really make this a real goal.

Well, Josh wants to go to Iceland.

He keeps bringing it up.

And I'm like, babe, I don't know if I can go there without Jenna.

I guess, am I coming on your family trip this year?

Maybe.

Just for, I'll pop over for one day of your family vacation.

Okay.

Well, I've got another place for us to go as well.

We got a letter from Amanda B.

in Allentown, Pennsylvania, whose daughter's name is Cece, by the way.

And I want to thank you for including your photo of the Titanic Museum in Tennessee.

Jenna is now obsessed with this Titanic Museum.

I looked it up.

It looks incredible.

Amanda, she really wants to go.

I really want to go.

It's like this immersive experience where you go on the boat and you learn all about the boat itself, which, and come on, you love a ship.

I love a boat.

Yeah.

Boats and trains.

Sign me up.

Boat facts.

And then you learn about all the people who were on the boat.

Yeah.

And they have built a boat.

I think they built something that looks like the inside of the grand staircase.

Yeah, no, I would love it.

I mean, I want to see this Viking ship that they found at the bottom of the ocean and they rebuilt it and you can go see it.

Where's that?

I don't know.

I just, I don't know.

You know that it's somewhere.

I know it exists.

It's somewhere.

We're going to go to it.

I've heard about it.

I've read about it.

It was interesting to me, too.

Mm-hmm.

All right.

Maybe we need to pick a theme for some of our travel.

Like, what if we did a year of ships and we just went around and like looked at ships year of ships oh my god i love it lady we could do a year of trains year of trains and ships there is a train ride i really want to go on which i mean there's a few yeah i mean there's one that goes through scotland that i've always wanted to do that's the one that's the first one that comes to mind yeah okay okay Also, I believe you're referring to the Osberg ship.

It's in Norway.

Thank you, Sam slash Google.

Norway.

Norway.

Seems like a wonderful place to visit.

I want to go.

Well, Amanda B., if we make it to the Titanic Museum in Tennessee, it's because of you.

So thank you for writing us.

All right.

Next up is the sweetest postcard that I got.

It's a Taylor Swift postcard, and it's addressed to Angela Kinsey, head of the PPC, podcast queen, and fellow Swifty.

It cracked me up.

It's from Claire, and here's what she had to say.

Claire writes, Angela, exclamation point.

It was so fun getting to meet you at NOLA.

You know, she means New Orleans.

You were so incredibly kind and gave me your blue Karma is a Cat friendship bracelet.

I think I may have blacked out when I met you because I was so excited that I fear I never gave you a bracelet.

I made one for you and Jenna as well.

I love your podcast and y'all's friendship.

Praising God that Jenna is cancer-free and I made the pink bracelet for her.

The other one matches your podcast cover photo.

Wishing you all a blessed rest of your year, Claire.

Oh, that is so thoughtful.

I met her at the Taylor Swift concert, you know, the heiress tour in New Orleans.

Yes.

And look, she did.

She sent us bracelets.

Isn't this so sweet?

Well, Angela, you know, I went to Taylor's very last show in Vancouver with my daughter, and I love the Swifties.

The Swifties were great.

Isabel and I had the best time.

It was just an absolute, like,

I mean, just overflowing of like joy and love positivity positivity yes your bracelet you know a few people sent us friendship bracelets we love them Sam and Cassie you got yours as well mm-hmm they're great yeah love it all right well as we're finishing up this mailbag section I did want to just shout out a few letters that

were very meaningful to me personally.

Several of you have written me about my cancer journey, but you've written me about your own.

And I just, I don't want to share personal details of other people, but I want you to know that I have been reading each and every one.

Jasmine, Amanda, thank you for your letters and for sharing with me about your journeys.

And just all of you, I just want you to know that I'm reading them and they are really comforting to me.

And you all sent sent me photos as well.

And just thank you.

And then Angela and I both wanted to just say thank you to Jamie D from North Carolina.

Jamie, you wrote us a card just talking about, you know, what happened in Asheville

after Hurricane Helene hit and that you were part of that community and what that was like for you.

And we just want to say that we're so glad that our podcast brought you some relief during that really trying time, which we know is still ongoing.

And we're just, we're thinking of you and we love y'all.

Yes.

And you know, we thought we would end this top of show with a fun fan encounter.

I love meeting people.

We know this about you, Ange.

We know.

If you come up and talk to me, I'm going to chat your ear off.

I hope you're not in a hurry.

And

I was traveling through Austin Texas a few months ago and I met the nicest lady and she told me such a sweet story and I wanted to share it with you all on the podcast.

I asked her, I said, hey, can you say it all again and I'll record us?

And she was like, okay.

So here, this is from my iPhone.

Sam, can you play it?

Okay,

here I am in Austin, Texas in the ladies' room at the airport and I just met Jamie.

And Jamie, will you tell everyone what you just told me?

I had both my babies listening to your podcast.

Office ladies, babies.

That's right.

Oh my gosh.

Like while she was in labor, she was listening to office ladies.

Yes, yes.

And then she was holding her baby as we were talking.

And, you know, we weren't like in the bathroom stalls.

We were like in that little entrance part of, you know, that you walked through the little hallway.

And then we both exited the bathroom and our husbands were both outside waiting for us.

And her husband was like, hey,

because I was like, hey, I heard you guys listen to the office ladies.

He was like, Man, we love office ladies.

Now, I've heard of people who watch the office while they're in labor to distract, but oh my gosh, she listened to office ladies.

Yes,

her both times.

Both times.

Both times.

Oh, my gosh.

Well, listen, why don't we take a break?

And when we come back, I will dive into the fan theory.

Is Bob Vance part of the Squant Mafia?

I can't wait to hear this because then I want to weigh in.

I want everybody to vote.

Okay.

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All right, we are back.

And are you ready to discuss, is Bob Vance in the Scranton Mafia?

Yes, I am.

So when I was going through our digital mailbag, I came across this letter from Megan F.

in Omaha, Nebraska, who said, I've been thinking about this for years.

I am convinced that Bob Vance is either part of the mafia or a lone shark.

Little sprinklings of information throughout the seasons ever since he first appeared has solidified my stance, and I would like to know where you ladies, as well as Sam and Cassie, stand on this take.

But didn't stop there.

Also got this letter from Tegan B in Wales, UK, who watches the office with her daughter Bailey.

Tegan wrote in after we broke down the mafia episode and said this, hearing you guys take us through the mafia episode, I had one question on my mind the whole time.

Have you guys heard the Bob Vance mob boss fan theory?

I thought it was ridiculous when I first heard it, but here is the Reddit link.

I would love to hear what you guys think on this one, especially after all the deep diving you guys did about mobs and Scranton

during the mafia episode.

Well, I went to this Reddit thread.

It was part of the Dunder Mifflin Reddit thread.

And it listed several reasons why Bob Vance might be in the mafia.

And I'm going to go through them.

We also got mail from folks with ideas that I didn't see on the thread, and I checked those as well.

So here's the theory: Bob Vance is actually in the mafia and just tried to sell himself as a fridge salesman in this documentary so he'd look like a legitimate business in front of the public and the police who may be suspicious of him.

And so begins the evidence.

Starting with a letter we got from Kelly B.

in Annapolis, Maryland, who said, in CrimeAid,

Bob doesn't even blink about bidding $1,000 to hug his wife.

It's true.

He's got some deep pockets.

Yeah.

Kelly also mentioned this talking head that was added to the Peacock Superfan episode of Branch Closing.

Listen to this.

My fiancé, Bob Vance, he told me he'd give me a job advance refrigeration.

I'm called a senior advisor.

I don't even have to come into work work.

And I get paid in cash.

Now that I say that out loud, it sounds illegal.

I want you to know Phyllis smiles at the end of that.

After she realizes it might be a little illegal, she smirks.

Why is she smirking?

I think she's kind of turned on by this idea that Bob Vance has some sort of operation going where he can pay cash.

It might be illegal, but I think she's a little turned on by him breaking the rules.

That's what I took from it.

Because you're going to see in these clips that Phyllis is often throwing around

things Bob will do or won't do.

Okay.

Okay.

She's like muscle.

She brags about it.

Oh, she sure does.

In fact, Kelly B points out that Phyllis has a talking head in season six, Happy Hour, where she talks about like going out with Bob Vance.

And she says, I tend to wear something low cut, get men to flirt with me, and Bob beats them up.

And again, they are twisted.

They are twisted.

There are a number of episodes that reference Bob muscling people.

Oh, I know.

For example, when Karen comes to Scranton and she doesn't even know who Bob Vance is, she's like, who?

Phyllis tells her, you have a lot to learn about this town, sweetie.

He runs the show, girl.

Right?

And how about this clip from Secret Santa when Phyllis confronts Jim about wanting to be Santa?

Well.

I'm trying, Phyllis.

You're Santa.

The only Santa.

That's what I want.

You promised me this.

Don't make me get Bob involved.

What would Bob do?

Never mind.

I shouldn't have said that.

Hmm.

He'd break both your arms, apparently.

And Caitlin S.

from North Carolina, who's currently living in Hawaii, wrote in to say, there's a deleted scene that Angela mentioned in the episode Broke where Phyllis says, you take away my perks.

See you later, alligator.

What's that in reference to?

It's all sounding like it's in reference to Bob.

Yeah.

And now I've got what I think are maybe my two most damning pieces of evidence that Bob Vance is in the mafia.

I've been waiting for one.

I'm going to see.

Is it part of this?

Aaron O.

from Mesa, Arizona said, currently watching the Superfan episodes on season six, episode six, Mafia.

Can we please talk about Phyllis's statement about the FBI being jealous of Bob Vance's success?

Mobsters have a front.

Sometimes it's selling insurance.

Sometimes it's waste management or sanitation.

Yeah, a lot of criminals launder money through a legitimate business.

I mean, Bob has been accused several times because the FBI is jealous of his success.

The FBI has investigated Bob several times for money laundering because they're jealous of his success.

Bob Vance of Vance Refrigeration.

They're like so jealous.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But now I'm going to bring you to the web series, The Outburst.

Oh,

this is the one about the trial, right?

Yep.

Yep.

This is what I've been waiting for.

Let's hear it.

Why doesn't everyone just mind their own business?

When you talk so loudly on your phone, you made it everyone's business, Oscar.

Okay, I didn't bother you when everybody in the office was talking about Bob's grand jury indictment.

So.

He was exonerated on all counts.

None of the witnesses even showed up for the trial.

None.

That's the one I've been waiting for.

There was a grand jury indictment, and then none of the witnesses showed up.

Yeah.

That's sounding very mafia-like to me.

They were scared.

They didn't want to go up against Bob, the head of the Scranton mafia.

Well, I think perhaps the biggest piece of evidence comes from your deep dive, Angela, on the Scranton mafia, which I guess did exist.

Does it still?

We don't know.

But it did.

I went back and I re-listened to your deep dive from our episode Mafia, and I found something I want to point out.

You mentioned someone named Frank Sheeran.

He was a real mobster who was accused of killing Jimmy Hoffa.

And he had links to Russell Buffalino, who was a Scranton mobster.

So these are real people.

Yes.

And in the movie The Irishman, we see how these two people met.

Now, I don't know if this is true or if this was just part of the movie, but in this movie, Sheeran meets Buffalino when his truck breaks down at a gas station and Sheeran helps him fix the carburetor.

Guess what kind of truck the Scranton mobster was driving?

A refrigeration truck.

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

He used it to deliver meat.

He drove a refrigeration truck.

Could it be he was driving a Vance refrigeration truck?

Does it go back?

Mm-hmm.

I guess you can store more than just meat.

Oh, many people pointed out that refrigerated trucks are a great place to hide bodies.

I love that there's several people sleuthing on this.

So many, so many.

Here was my sleuth, because I didn't see anyone sleuth this.

I wondered if there was any evidence in the episode Phyllis's Wedding.

I was like, did she have a mob wedding?

Like, would there be evidence in her wedding?

So I looked up elements of a mob wedding.

Like, how have they been portrayed in other movies and things?

And were there any similarities?

There is an over-the-top wedding cake with a refrigerator on top of it.

Well, that's on my list.

Okay.

In The Godfather, we meet Don Corleone, played by by Marlon Brando, at the wedding of his daughter.

This is also where we are introduced to the entire Corleone crime family.

There's also a wedding scene in the movie Goodfellows and in Casino.

So I watched all of these wedding scenes and I took notes and I compared them to Phyllis's wedding.

One note, in The Godfather movie, they introduce this idea that a mob boss cannot refuse a request on the day of his daughter's wedding.

Yep.

This is not true.

It was made up for the movie.

Oh.

It's kind of like considered a little bit of a scandal.

Because in general, the film was very intentional about trying to stay true to the specifics of the Sicilian mafia.

But this was made up.

They missed that one.

They did.

But here are the things that I observed that were at both a mob wedding and Phyllis's wedding.

And I only went with things that all these weddings had in common.

This was not a comparison.

I thought I'd hear today.

There it is.

I'm very excited about it.

Very large weddings, all of them.

Okay.

Lots of guests.

Okay.

Big, big wedding.

Yes, but also very large bridal parties.

Okay.

All of these weddings.

So many bridesmaids and bridesmaids' dresses.

Giant cake.

Yeah.

Live music, maybe with a celebrity singer.

Is Kevin a local celebrity?

I don't know.

Maybe that's a stretch.

But live music.

There's no DJs at any of these weddings.

Lavish.

Very lavish.

Throwing around your wealth.

Large, lavish.

You got another L for me.

Live music.

Oh, live.

Yeah.

Okay.

All the L's.

Large, live music, lavish.

Now, in Goodfellas, the bride sits in a chair and there's this receiving line of people that walk up and just give her envelopes of cash.

That did not happen to Phyllis.

That we know of.

That we saw in the documentary.

But I watched the super fan of Phyllis's wedding.

I wanted to see all the footage that was now included in the canon.

And I did see this moment, which is in all episodes.

This is when Michael is in the receiving line and he gets to Bob Vance and they have this exchange.

Listen to this.

Congratulations, Bob.

You're a good man.

But just know, if you ever lay a finger on Phyllis, I will kill you.

If you ever lay a finger on Phyllis, I'll kill you.

Agreed.

No fingers will be laid on Phyllis.

Hmm.

He seemed very comfortable making that threat.

I mean, so did Michael, but...

No, I don't know.

If you see, if you see the scene.

I know.

He's got a gravity to him when he says it.

He's Bob Vance.

So I don't know.

What do you think?

Do we think

that Bob Vance

is in the mafia?

Is Vance's refrigeration a front?

Is it just a money laundering operation?

Well, look, I think he's definitely into some shady business.

Okay.

I say he's into shady business, Sam.

I could see the money laundering thing.

Okay.

Yeah, definitely a legal activity, but I think if he was in the mafia, Phyllis wouldn't work.

I think she would be a mafia.

A liability.

Yeah.

And also, I feel like Michael would know, and it would just be bad.

He'd have to take out too many Dunder Mifflin employees.

Okay.

I like what you're saying about Phyllis here.

I hear that.

Like, why do they want to have to file with the IRS?

Yeah, she wouldn't have her job anymore.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But he's up to some shady business.

It doesn't seem like she needs her job, but she does continue to work.

She must like it, I guess.

I think she does.

In some capacity.

We should dive into that and all about Phyllis Lapin.

I think she likes her job.

I do too.

Well, finally, Bobby Ray Schaefer did an interview with cracked.com last December, and they asked him about this.

They said the online fandom has some crazy theories about Bob.

Some think he's in the mafia.

What do you think?

So here is from Bob Vance himself.

Bobby Ray Schaefer said, maybe something fell off a truck here or there.

Who knows?

I never played that though.

So it was never part of his backstory.

He was not ever playing this.

He was never told to play it or directed to play it.

I like that.

I like maybe something fell off the truck every once in a while.

Yeah.

You know, I think in my neighborhood, there's a business we wonder about.

This isn't the building with no windows because we got to the bottom of that.

No.

We mom detected of that.

This is a chocolate shop.

You think it's a front?

It's a chocolate and flower shop.

And I took my kids and my niece and nephew in there many summers ago.

And the chocolate was like so expensive.

It was like, I've never seen chocolate at this price.

And the flowers were,

I don't know.

I just, we all, we left with no chocolate.

Yeah.

I was like, I'm sorry.

This is the most expensive chocolate on earth.

They didn't seem sad to lose our business.

I was like, what are you selling in here?

Cause you're not, who's buying this chocolate?

Yeah.

Okay.

So we have a thing like this in our family, too.

There's this little tiny little mini mall that we drive by on a regular basis.

And I don't know if it's because we've been watching Ozark and so now we're like, everything's up front.

Everything's a front.

It's a money laundering front.

But the businesses in this little mini mall are like some kind of yoga studio and then a hair removal and then a psychic.

No one's ever parked in the parking lot ever.

They're constantly doing work to the building.

They just put all this tile in the front to make it look like a waterfall.

I'm like, that's expensive.

Tiny little little crystal tiles.

I'm like, this is a front.

This is a front.

No one's going there.

This chocolate shop is in a little mini mall as well.

Right?

Yeah.

We talk about it all the time.

We never see people going in and out.

Yeah.

It opens, but for weird times.

It never looks opened.

You can't park there.

And I was like, Josh, we need to sign up for like one of the yoga classes to see.

I'll go with you.

Go get a consult for hair removal or something to see.

Lady, this is our next mom detectives.

I will sign up for a yoga class in that strip mall with you, and I need you to come try to buy some chocolate with me.

Okay.

We're going to get to the bottom of it.

Let's do it.

This has opened a whole new mom detective moment.

I wasn't expecting.

All right.

Well, everyone, that is the fan theory is Bob Vance in the Scranton Mafia.

Angela, I'm sure you'll put a poll in stories so you all can weigh in.

Why don't we take a break and we'll find out if the office is really hell.

Hey, everyone, it's Jenna.

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Welcome back to Office Lady 6.0 and to my fan theory that, well, it's a journey, y'all.

It's a journey.

It all started when I was googling the office fan theories.

I was a lady who Googled.

All right.

As we do.

And I came across this article on mentalfloss.com in September of 2022.

It was titled, 12 Compelling Fan Theories About the Office.

And number seven was listed as, The Office is Actually Hell.

And I was like, what?

Come on that's crazy also I have to ask you a quick question because when I was growing up like hell was like a curse word I mean I know it's not anymore really sure I mean you'd have to say HE double hockey stick that's what we said yeah we would say what in the HE double hockey sticks is going on yeah do people still say that HE double hockey sticks I don't probably think so somewhere but I'm not sure I think somewhere okay I think somewhere people are still saying it it.

Or you, you know, another one we would do?

You'd be like, what the hello is going on?

Oh, that's a good one.

You'd like turn it into something else.

Yes.

But you get it in there.

Right.

Like saying, shut the front door.

Exactly.

Exactly.

See you next Tuesday.

That's a real.

Oh, oh, oh, Angela.

Angela.

What?

I didn't come up with it.

My friend's mom said that one time and we all about fell out of our chairs.

Jenna, is this your first time hearing that?

You know what?

I've heard that phrase before, and I am Angela today because I never put it together.

And I am worried now that I have said that,

just thinking when I'm saying that, that what I'm saying is that that person is just someone I don't want to see for a long time.

I'm going to see you next Tuesday.

Right.

Like how I thought the sloppy thing was about leftovers.

We've not ever told that story, Angela, and I don't know if you want to go there now or not.

Oh, no.

I don't even know if we should.

I think we can stop it.

It's a horrible phrase that for years I have thought meant you were just really sloppy at something.

Like maybe, or you used your leftovers.

Anyway, I thought it was like a food reference.

It's not.

It's not.

And I said it one time in front of you guys.

The phrase is sloppy seconds.

And I said.

I don't want that person's sloppy seconds.

That's right, because I don't want their messy leftovers.

Right.

And I said that to you guys.

And you were like, what?

What?

And you were so offended, like taken aback.

And I was like, what are you talking about?

I was like, that is one of the most crass things you've ever said, Angela.

And I was like, I don't, it's a, I don't want your leftovers.

And then

you were so innocent.

And then I was horrified.

Because you realized you have said that.

I think I have.

I think I said it one time, like at a, at a,

like a parent meeting.

I think I said, well, no one wants those sloppy seconds.

That's insane.

I'm so embarrassed.

I've replayed that parent-teacher meeting.

I'm like, oh, my gosh.

It was like

years ago.

And I don't know.

Maybe I've said it other places.

Well, there is a chance that I've said,

see you next Tuesday.

Because it just went off.

It just connected for me.

Anyway, we are ladies that don't know phrases.

We should maybe Google more.

I don't want to Google that one that I thought was leftovers ever.

No.

Do not because it is a very I don't want to talk about it.

I'm embarrassed about it.

I can't believe I didn't understand.

Well, I want to warn people to not Google it if they don't want to be offended.

It is a reference that, how can I explain it?

It's just

bad, and it's a very misogynistic term.

And it is not at all about leftover food or being a sloppy person, which is what I thought it was.

Yeah.

I'm still horrified by that.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, there.

We have finally discussed it.

It's something that everyone here for y'all listening,

it was maybe like

an afternoon where you guys completely lost it.

Okay.

All right.

Where was I?

Okay, H-E-double hockey sticks.

Yes, hell, is the office hell.

Is the office

discussing?

Let's put it in the terms of how we grew up.

Is the office actually HE double hockey sticks?

Okay, I...

I know.

It's out there.

It's out there.

What is it?

Well, you know, listen, I have had some really boring, monotonous jobs, especially when I was temping, that felt like a form of maybe purgatory.

Okay.

So I was curious.

Maybe this fan theory is talking about those places you get stuck in.

And maybe Dunder Mifflin is something like that.

Okay, okay, I'm hearing it.

I was curious.

This is what the article said in mentalfloss.com.

Quote, a bunch of people sincerely believe that the Scranton office is hell, but that it didn't become a hellscape until after one key episode.

What episode?

Lady, I couldn't believe this.

Stress relief.

The one where Dwight starts the fire in the office?

Yes.

Well, here's what the article says.

In the first part of stress relief, Stanley has a heart attack in the middle of the safety drill.

Yes.

Right?

Yes.

And Stanley survives, and then he has to return to work.

The theory says, what if Stanley really died that day?

Huh?

And then what?

So the theory goes, Stanley's heart attack kills him, and he goes to the bad place.

And the bad place for him is Dunder Mifflin.

Well, that does make me laugh.

I know.

It would be Stanley's hell.

Wouldn't it?

Having to endure working at Dunder Mifflin.

He wants to retire so desperately.

Oh, Stanley Mill.

He can't wait to get out of there at five o'clock every day.

I mean, all that man wants is a bubble bath and a glass of red wine.

That's it.

Well, this article made me curious about this theory.

I wondered what other office fans thought.

And I dug a little deeper, and I think I found what was the original post about it that started it all.

Okay.

It was 10 years ago, way before the Mental Floss article.

Okay.

And basically, an office fan kind of came up with this theory because they felt like the show took a nosedive after stress relief.

Wait, so this theory is based on the fact that they just didn't like any episodes from that point on?

Yes, they said the show kind of became cartoonish.

The characters got more exaggerated and broad.

And, you know, I think the theory that Dunder Mifflin is Stanley's hell is, that is kind of funny.

Yes, I can see that.

Have you seen that thing on Instagram where people post their personal hell?

Like some person is like, my personal hell is having to spend eternity figuring out what's for dinner every night.

That's so funny because it is, that is something that drives Josh crazy.

He's always like, what are we having for dinner tonight?

Because he's such a planner.

Yes, yes.

Well, this did lead me down the rabbit hole.

And there are some funny theories about characters on the office that might be the devil.

Oh, for example, Toby.

They're like, Is Toby the devil?

Because he drives Michael so crazy.

Is he Satan?

Toby.

I don't know.

He's the Scranton strangler.

He's the devil.

Everybody, he's just Toby.

Everyone dumps on Toby.

Toby is just Toby.

That's what someone wrote in and said.

Well, there is another one that Michaels Hill might just be living in the condo with Jan.

Oh, like dinner party?

Yeah.

I mean you remember this moment?

I'm so so sorry for the temperature in here.

The

sliding glass door shattered.

Okay.

It's actually a really cute story.

Do you want to tell it babe or should I tell it?

I don't like that story babe.

Come on.

It's a cute story.

Michael ran through the sliding glass door because he thought he heard the ice cream truck.

Stop it.

I mean, I like ice cream, okay?

Sue me.

Oh,

no, don't.

I shouldn't say that jokingly because she will sue me.

She loves to sue.

She loves lawsuits.

You know, honey, that door was extremely clean and it looked invisible.

You are so right.

You are so right because before I lived here, the glass was always covered in smudges.

And I moved in and I cleaned it.

So I guess that makes me the devil.

You are.

She is.

she is the devil I'm in hell

I'm burning tell me you shouldn't joke about that is there more wine in the kitchen I will get it I will get it

I love that Pam's response to all that is that she'd like another glass of wine lady if I had to think what my personal hell is it might be this dinner party truly to imagine as an introvert where for all of eternity I have to go to a dinner party that they haven't served me any food after 40 minutes.

Because I'm done socializing now at 40 minutes in.

Oh, small talk, no food.

So much small talk.

Cringy, dramatic moment that you have to then sit through.

Also, like an obligated dinner party, not with my actual friends, but like

something that I've been obligated to go to and sit through that is going on forever.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That could be mine.

Yeah.

Sam, Cassie, do you have a personal hell moment?

Every six months, we have to call our internet because the internet bill goes up and we have to pretend that we're leaving and be like, we need to talk to retention.

Retention?

Yeah.

That's a department?

That's a department and you act like you're leaving and then they'll lower your bill back to the rate.

But every six months we have to do it and it drives me nuts.

Why are they racing it every six months?

Because it's bad internet monopolies being evil.

Yes.

A retention department.

That's my personality that I would look forward to that call every six months.

Jenna, do you want to do it for us every six months?

I mean, maybe.

You just signed up to talk to the retention department.

I don't know.

Sam?

I would say mine would be permanently trapped on a bad date with someone not asking anything about you, just talking at you.

Oh, yeah.

That's no fun.

Oh, Sam, have you had one of those lately?

Oh, no.

Oh, no, no.

That's a fresh memory.

It felt fresh.

Angela, what about you?

You know, I thought about this when I was researching this fan theory, and mine is so specific.

But, you know, when you're traveling somewhere and you're sort of in a confined space,

I don't know, the shuttle to the airport,

train, buses, a plane, just that confined space.

One time I was on a bus and there was a woman sitting behind me and

it was like a two-hour bus ride and she had a water bottle that she kept doing this to.

My gosh.

I brought this prop in special so I could do this.

She did it for two hours.

This sound, and I'm sorry for y'all listening, I thought, I'm going to lose it.

This is horrible.

If this ride was any longer, I don't know what I'd do.

I might turn around and just grab it and throw it out the window.

Please.

Your personal hell is so simple and specific.

It really is.

It's not layered with anything else.

No, do not crunch a water bottle or like if you have a wrapper

behind me.

It's very, it's like an ASMR thing for you.

I guess so.

But yeah, that would be it for me.

That would be my bad place.

So that is that fan theory.

It did lead me to some other interesting articles.

There are several lists of like characters that make the worst list.

Okay.

Meaning they're horrible people.

Horrible people.

Yeah.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

From the office characters.

That's right.

Can I guess who they are?

Well, there's one on Screen Rant lists the top five baddies of the office and lists reasons why they're so horrible.

All right.

Robert California.

Not on the list.

What?

I've lost all.

This list has lost all credibility already.

And I won't read the rest of it.

Well, I am curious.

Ryan Howard, is he on the list?

He's number one.

Well,

thankfully, that is happening.

Okay.

I don't know.

Those are the people who come to mind.

Todd Packer.

Oh, my gosh, of course.

Yes.

Todd Packer.

Yes, yes, yes.

Jan.

Jan makes the list.

What's so horrible about Jan?

Well, she made Michael sleep on a bench at the foot of the bed.

She made him get a vasectomy multiple times.

All right, I'm sorry.

Fine.

Okay.

I'll give it.

Gabe.

Gabe?

He really cringes people out.

They are cringe creeped out by him.

Is cringed out of phrase?

Probably not.

But remember, he did film Stanley secretly for his movie and then Oscar's grandmother.

Remember, he's...

That's right.

That's creepy.

That's creepy.

And then number five, Dwight.

Dwight?

Yeah, they, I mean, people think he's a menace.

He throws snowballs at you until you're freaked out.

He He killed Angela's cat.

He's always doing these safety drills that put people in harm's way.

He did cut off the face of that CPR dummy.

That's pretty creepy.

Yeah.

And that was the beginning of the end for that one Reddit user.

Yes, exactly.

Oh my goodness.

Well, all right.

Interesting theories.

There you go.

Do we want to do a poll?

Do you think Dundra Mifflin?

is the HE double hockey sticks place.

We'll find out what you think.

But thank you, everyone, for writing in all your letters, all your theories, your questions, your comments.

We just love you guys.

We love hearing from you.

Lady, should we end with a key anecdote?

Oh yes.

Let's see.

All right, here's a key anecdote from 2016.

Keanu said, quote, people can't be excellent to you unless you're being excellent to yourself.

Oh, Keanu.

Oh, Keanu.

When you're right, you're right, Keanu.

It's true.

It's true.

You cannot accept love into you if you are not already loving yourself.

I mean, it's true.

Yeah.

I think that's the perfect key anecdote to end this episode on.

I agree.

Everyone, thank you so much, and we'll see you next week.

Bye.

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins.

Our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer, and our associate producer is Ainsley Bubico.

Odyssey's executive producers are Jenna Weiss Burman and Leah Reese Dennis.

Office Ladies is mixed and mastered by Chris Basil.

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.

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