All About Kevin Malone with Brian Baumgartner

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Speaker 1 I'm Jenna Fisher and I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on the office together and we're best friends.
And now we're doing the Ultimate Office Lovers podcast just for you.

Speaker 1 Each week we will dive deeper into the world of the office with exclusive interviews, behind-the-scenes details, and lots of VFF stories. We're the Office Lady 6.0.

Speaker 1 Hello! Hi there!

Speaker 1 We have a really fun Office Lady 6.0 today. We do.
It is all about Kevin Malone with special guest Brian Baumgartner. Yeah, in the studio.
In studio.

Speaker 1 Well, I want to kick things off with this fan question from Daria R. in Port Perry, Ontario, Canada.

Speaker 1 Daria asks, where is Kevin really from?

Speaker 1 There are so many misconceptions. In one episode, Michael says, quote, men from Scranton when referring to Kevin, but in Delivery Part 2, Kevin says he's not from Scranton.
What is with that?

Speaker 1 Is there anything in the show Bible? Seriously, what's up with that? Well, there's nothing specific about where he is from in the show Bible. It does list his current address, which is very specific.

Speaker 1 It's 1668 Summit Point.

Speaker 1 It also lists his vehicle, a silver CR-V.

Speaker 1 Oh, I could see him driving a silver CR-V. You could? Yeah.
Well, he does. Well, there you go.
So that's good.

Speaker 1 It also lists his job as accountant.

Speaker 2 However,

Speaker 1 In Scott's Tots, remember, we learned he first applied for a job in the warehouse, but Michael hired him as an accountant because he had, quote, a feeling about him.

Speaker 1 But then he does have a diploma by his desk that says he got his Associate of Science degree in accounting from an online university called Penn Foster College.

Speaker 1 Penn Foster is a real college where people can get their degree online. What is the science of accounting? Is that like the math course I took in college called Ideas of Mathematics?

Speaker 1 Is accounting a science degree? There's like you can get your Bachelor of Arts or your Bachelor of Science. So does accounting, because it's part of math, fall under science?

Speaker 1 Are these like, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Like I have a theater degree that fell under Bachelor of Arts.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 3 Accounting is considered both a science and an art.

Speaker 1 Oh. Did you Google that? Or is that your personal opinion?

Speaker 3 No, no, that's still what Google has to say.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Sam.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 1 Okay. There you go.

Speaker 1 So, Daria, I'm sorry I can't answer your specific question, but you did cause cause me to open up the show Bible and I felt that I should do a show Bible summary of Kevin Malone.

Speaker 1 Well, I was hoping you would. So yay, Daria.

Speaker 1 I'll have you know the very first line of Kevin's show Bible says, quote, suffers from anal fissures.

Speaker 2 Oh, Kevin.

Speaker 1 That's the very first thing the show Bible tells us about. That's why you lead off.
That's what it says.

Speaker 1 But here's your summary. Kevin always sets the thermostat to 69 degrees

Speaker 1 and then giggles. His favorite candy is M ⁇ Ms, and he wins the contest for putting the most in his mouth at one time.
That's what she said.

Speaker 1 He loves them so much, he hid them from the Stanford transfer employees. He says he just cannot stop himself when it comes to M ⁇ Ms.

Speaker 1 His favorite lunch is Cup of Noodles. His favorite movie is American Pie 2.

Speaker 1 Not the first one, the second one. The second one.
Very specific. He requires a magazine when giving a urine sample.
Oh.

Speaker 1 He also takes off his tie when urinating, and he doesn't wash his hands after using the restroom. We have a lot of information.
There's so much bathroom info. I don't know on his bathroom habits.

Speaker 1 Why does he take off his tie? There was an episode, I guess, where he reveals he takes off his tie and he doesn't want it to dip in the toilet. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 I don't want the visual image in my brain.

Speaker 1 He was once engaged to be married to a woman named Stacy. Stacy.
Yeah, who has a daughter. Stacy was the fourth woman he had proposed to,

Speaker 1 and he secretly considered her his second choice. Him and Andy Bernard have a lot in common, actually.

Speaker 2 It's

Speaker 1 love and romance. After Kevin and Stacey break up, he asks out Lynn, but we find out later she just wanted to be friends.

Speaker 1 He plays drums and sings in the band Scrantonicity, but they had a falling out, and so now his band is Scrantonicity 2.

Speaker 1 This leads me to a fan catch from Amelia T in Bogota, Columbia. Amelia says, we need to get to the bottom of this, meaning Kevin's band.

Speaker 1 In the extended cut of basketball around the eight-minute mark, Kevin tells Dwight that he is in a Steve Miller tribute band, not a police cover band.

Speaker 1 Are we to believe he switches band genres at some point or is this a continuity error? Well, Amelia, I'll tell you.

Speaker 1 Yes, he says Steve Miller tribute band in that deleted scene from basketball, which is now in the Superfan episode.

Speaker 1 It was always the writer's intention to have Kevin's band be a Steve Miller tribute band.

Speaker 2 I remember that.

Speaker 1 He tells Katie in Hot Girl that he's in a Steve Miller tribute band. She's not a fan.

Speaker 2 That's right.

Speaker 1 But when we filmed Casino Night, which is the episode where Pam and Jim watch videos of his band,

Speaker 1 we couldn't get permission from Steve Miller band to play their songs. Yeah, they said, uh-uh, we don't want to be on the office.
So we had to change it to the police. That's what happened.

Speaker 1 You want more Kevin info? Yeah. All right.
I mean, we need to get to know Kevin very well. This is all about Kevin Malone.
Well, I'm giving you all we know. Give it all to me.

Speaker 1 Kevin won the 2002 2,500 No Limit deuce to 7 draw tournament at the World Series of Poker in Las Vegas. He's good at basketball.
He's also good at trivia night. He is an avid gambler.

Speaker 1 He bets on sports. In fact, he uses petty cash to gamble at the golf course.

Speaker 1 But the thing he thinks he does best is making chili. He has also cooked his way through Julia Child's cookbook and part of the Twilight cookbook.
He has an adopted dog named Ruby.

Speaker 1 And Kevin is also a loyal friend. He stood up to the state senator when he was mean to Oscar and Angela.
He's the one who noticed when Andy was suffering from a mental breakdown.

Speaker 1 He is, however, not a great accountant. He invented the number Kalevin and was eventually fired for incompetence.

Speaker 1 And Daria, as far as family, there is nothing in the show Bible, so we're going to have to look at some supplemental office content. There isn't much,

Speaker 1 but in the webisode, the podcast, Kevin says he is Irish.

Speaker 1 And there is a deleted scene from Andy's play that Angela, you mentioned when we broke down that episode where we learned Kevin has a sister

Speaker 1 who is actually in the play.

Speaker 2 In the play, yeah.

Speaker 1 Let's listen.

Speaker 4 Hi. Kevin.
Hi.

Speaker 1 Stuart, this is my brother Kevin.

Speaker 4 Hi.

Speaker 1 I can't believe you came to every show.

Speaker 4 You were good.

Speaker 1 Oh, thank you. See, you never come to anything I ever do.
So what's the change?

Speaker 4 We need to put mom in a home.

Speaker 1 So we learned a little bit there about his sister and his mom. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But that's all there is. We only meet her through that deleted scene.
And it's probably why she didn't make it into the show Bible.

Speaker 1 And listen, we do ask Brian about this in our interview coming up later in the episode. And he does share some reasons why we don't know more about Kevin's backstory.
So stay tuned.

Speaker 1 Well, I love me some show Bible, lady. It always always delivers.
Well, I thought we can't talk about all about Kevin Malone without discussing that classic chili cold open written by Aaron Schurr.

Speaker 1 You guys know it's the scene that kicks off season five episode Casual Friday.

Speaker 1 Brian once said in an interview that this scene is, quote, about an ordinary guy who doesn't do a lot well, but he does chili well. And obviously, it doesn't succeed.

Speaker 1 But you hear in his voice how excited he is to be sharing this thing that he does well. And then Kevin, of course, says, it's probably the thing I do best.

Speaker 1 Brian said he gets asked about this scene all the time of all the things that he's done on the office.

Speaker 1 I mean, he wrote a whole chili cookbook. Yes, he did.

Speaker 1 He did. And you know, I have traveled a lot with Brian.
We often got paired up to travel and it is something people just really connect with him about.

Speaker 1 And they have put Kevin smelling the chili. I have seen it on a tattoo on someone's leg.
Same. Yeah.
On t-shirts, on baby onesies, on a birthday cake. It's just, it's very popular.

Speaker 1 And I thought, you know, we can't do this episode without actually having Kevin's chili. Brian put it in his chili cookbook.
It's called Kevin's Famous Chili.

Speaker 1 I asked Josh if he could make it last night, and he did. And it's really good.

Speaker 1 I mean, the way he describes it with the onions and the things.

Speaker 1 Yes. I thought we had to hear it.

Speaker 4 At least once a year, I like to bring in some of my Kevin's famous chili. The trick is to undercook the onions.

Speaker 4 Everybody is going to get to know each other in the pot.

Speaker 4 I'm serious about this stuff.

Speaker 4 I'm up the night before, pressing garlic and dicing whole tomatoes. I toast my own ancho chilies.

Speaker 4 It's a recipe passed down from Malone's for generations.

Speaker 4 It's probably the thing I do best.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 I'm so excited. You told me that Josh was doing this, and I wrote you back and I said, This is my lunch today.
I packed no lunch.

Speaker 1 This is what I want to eat. Please bring this chili in.

Speaker 1 I do want to tell you guys, we talked in such depth about this scene, how we made this scene in the episode Casual Friday. So if you haven't haven't heard it, it's a great listen.
It is.

Speaker 1 We got a lot of good insight scoop from Aaron Scherr and also from Brian.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, I did bring chili today. I brought Kevin's famous chili out of Brian's cookbook, Seriously Good Chili Cookbook.
I'm going to go heat it up. All right.
Well, why don't we take a break?

Speaker 1 And when we come back, we're going to eat some chili.

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Speaker 1 All right, we are back and we are eating Kevin's famous chili. Thank you, Josh.
I know.

Speaker 2 It's really good.

Speaker 1 Really good. There's something about chili that just makes you feel cozy, doesn't it? Yes.
This has like exactly the right amount of spice for me.

Speaker 1 I get a little kick, but it's not overpowering. And what is this? Is this the ale? Doesn't it call for lager, right? Is that what this taste is? I don't know.

Speaker 3 I like it. The thinly diced onions really make a difference.

Speaker 1 You know what? They all got to know each other in the pot. They did.
And they're making me very happy.

Speaker 1 I think we should mention, Cassie, you are unable to try this chili because you're joining us on Zoom today. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Is it vegetarian?

Speaker 1 I was going to say, Cassie, if you were here, we would have made a vegetarian option.

Speaker 2 Oh, no.

Speaker 1 It is not vegetarian. Kevin's recipe is not.

Speaker 2 I would assume not.

Speaker 1 Well, that was incredible and very satisfying. And I thank Josh.
And I thank Brian Baumgartner for putting that in his cookbook. And Kevin.
And Kevin.

Speaker 1 And Aaron Scherr, I guess, for writing The Cold Open. There's lots of people to thank.

Speaker 2 Ah. All right.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm going to put this away now. And I am going to get into, I guess, what I'm calling my deep dive area of interest.
We each picked one. We each picked a topic about Kevin we wanted to explore.

Speaker 1 I wanted to explore the evolution of Kevin.

Speaker 2 Oh.

Speaker 2 There's a lot of articles about it.

Speaker 1 We got a lot of fan mail about it. So I was really intrigued.
I mean, it sounds like a very fancy title, The Evolution of Kevin. Thank you.
You're welcome. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 You know, initially, the character of Kevin was mostly used for cutaway gags or like funny one-liners. He was painted with a pretty broad brush.

Speaker 1 I was going through old episodes and there's that episode from season two, drug testing, and it's where Dwight is questioning Kevin about the joint that was found in the parking lot.

Speaker 1 I thought that this was a really good example of how the character of Kevin was used early on. So I thought we could listen to it.
Okay.

Speaker 4 Let's go over some of these symptoms of marijuana use, shall we? You tell me who this sounds like:

Speaker 4 slow moving,

Speaker 4 inattentive,

Speaker 4 dull,

Speaker 4 constantly snacking,

Speaker 4 Shows a lack of motivation.

Speaker 4 Hey.

Speaker 1 That's it. His line is, hey.
It's the same way he says Stacey.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Sorry, I'm still eating chili. I'm sorry.
We were supposed to put that down, but it's hard to resist. I know.

Speaker 1 Also, I know there's some people who really have a hard time listening to other people eat or chew. It's like a thing.
So many apologies. I'm going to stop eating now.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 If you can.

Speaker 2 I know. Okay.

Speaker 1 We got this fan question from Leighton R in Folsom, California, who says, Kevin has some of the funniest one-liners on the show.

Speaker 1 Which Kevin line or moment still makes you laugh the most when you think back on it? Well, I thought this was a great question. And so we threw it out to the group.

Speaker 1 And we thought everybody could share. Sam, Cassie, and who wants to go first?

Speaker 2 I'll go first. Okay.

Speaker 3 So I'm a big fan of when Kevin first introduces why he's been going into Jim's office.

Speaker 2 Here, I'll play it for you. Okay.

Speaker 4 Jim's gone on his honeymoon. So I started borrowing his office to fart in.
Then one day I came in and I just stayed because this place is awesome. It feels like home now.
Even better than my home.

Speaker 4 My home sucks.

Speaker 3 It's perfectly Kevin. It's funny and so sad.

Speaker 2 So tragic.

Speaker 1 Well, it's interesting because my favorite is from the episode right before, from Jim and Pam's wedding. Let me set it up for you.

Speaker 1 He's at the hotel and he's wearing his toupee and he's very proudly walking down the hall. Here's what he says.

Speaker 4 What an awesome party. The best wedding I've ever been to.
I got six numbers. One more would have been a complete telephone number.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 He got six individual numbers from women. Yeah.

Speaker 1 One more and he would have had someone to call. He was so close.
So close.

Speaker 1 Cassie, do you want to go next? Sure.

Speaker 2 There's a lot of great Kevin moments, and any scene with Kevin and Holly always cracks me up.

Speaker 2 But one we haven't talked about is in Mafia, how he freezes Jim's credit card while on his honeymoon with Pam at Puerto Rico.

Speaker 2 Yes. That's so funny.

Speaker 1 That is so great. I forgot about that.

Speaker 4 Hello.

Speaker 1 Hello, Mr. Halpert.
I'm calling from the Identity Theft Department at Capital One. We've detected some unusual activity on your credit card.

Speaker 4 Oh, man. Do you think it was stolen?

Speaker 1 Chris, would you mind verifying your home address?

Speaker 4 Um, yes.

Speaker 4 Um

Speaker 4 383 Lyndon Ave Scranton P.A. And may I have the last four digits of your social security? 6650.

Speaker 1 Well, Mr. Halpert, you're obviously not in San Juan, Puerto Rico.

Speaker 2 Wait a minute. Yes, I am.

Speaker 4 I think that we should let the criminal use the card a little longer.

Speaker 1 Very funny, sir. We'll get a new card out to you right away.
Nope. Have a nice day, and thank you.

Speaker 1 He'll whimper at the end. Yeah, so good.

Speaker 1 Well, you guys, my favorite moment isn't so much like a funny line. It's more of a moment when he stood up for Angela.
You sort of mentioned this earlier, Jenna, in your show Bible.

Speaker 1 It's from the episode Vandalism. And, you know, the senator and Angela have had all their fancy friends over to their house.
And they're getting this group photo with baby Philip.

Speaker 1 And Oscar and Angela are pushing each other and fighting to be in the front of the picture. And as they leave, Kevin stands up for them to the senator.
And here's the clip.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much, Ethan.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 have we all calmed down yet? Yes, sorry about that.

Speaker 1 It was all my fault.

Speaker 2 Let's all try to do better next time. Kevin, great to see you.
Thank you for the food.

Speaker 2 And also, you suck.

Speaker 2 I beg your pardon. You are like a terrible person.

Speaker 2 These guys care about you, and you're just using them.

Speaker 2 Again, the food was very good.

Speaker 1 And then Angela has a little smile.

Speaker 1 Well, and Lauren G from Massachusetts wrote in, and this is also her favorite Kevin moment. Not only that, Lauren said, Kevin is one of my favorite characters.

Speaker 1 Lauren thinks that that moment is a humanizing moment. And it shows that Kevin is not just the office goofball, but that he loves people and he stands up for them.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And Lauren, Collider agrees with you. They actually put out an article in April of 2023 asking if Kevin was actually the heart of the office.
Aw. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And this is where we get into kind of the evolution of the character going from a guy who does silly one-liners to having so much more depth.

Speaker 1 The article points out that while Kevin may not be the smartest character, his simplicity and his genuine desire for happiness really resonated with audiences.

Speaker 1 Kevin is portrayed as a loyal friend who often lacks any kind of agenda. He just seeks laughter and connection rather than personal gain.

Speaker 1 And the article points out that while Kevin wanted to be liked, Michael kind of needed to be liked at like an obsessive level.

Speaker 1 And you also have characters like Dwight, Oscar, and Angela who really needed to feel superior to everybody. Jim was always kind of trying to impress Pam or make her laugh.

Speaker 1 But of all the characters, Kevin really just wants to live in the moment.

Speaker 1 Collider also points out that when Kevin accidentally found out that Oscar was having an affair with Angela's husband, he is the one who is able to keep the secret. He kept it so good.

Speaker 1 So good, he kept that secret.

Speaker 1 And that if he does make a crass joke, it's never to be mean or cruel. And that, in fact, it really causes him pain to hurt anyone.

Speaker 1 And I wanted to point out one of my other favorite Kevin moments that I think really speaks to this humanizing piece of him that Brian Baumgartner played so well.

Speaker 1 And it's that moment in Chair Model when he gets our parking spaces back. And he has that talking head.
Yeah, where he says, it's just nice to win one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and he has a little bit of a tear up in his eye. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So that's my deep dive into into Kevin. There are so many other like funny one-liners that I didn't even get to.
Screen rant did a whole list of fan favorites.

Speaker 1 I can tell you some of them because they are fun. Oh, let's hear them.
From the incentive when he says, me think why waste time say lot word when few word do trick.

Speaker 1 From the finale, well, well, well, well, well. That's six wells.
I love that. From viewing party, when he says, I wanted to to eat a pig in a blanket in a blanket.

Speaker 1 Then also, this one is one of my favorites from Christmas Party when he says mini cupcakes, as in the mini version of regular cupcakes, which is already a mini version of a cake.

Speaker 1 Honestly, where does it end with you people?

Speaker 1 I love like, it takes a lot to piss Kevin off, I feel like, but that is, that did it.

Speaker 1 And while the point of my deep dive was to point out the more tender and, I guess,

Speaker 1 sensitive parts of Kevin. I'm gonna end with this clip.
This is Kevin from PDA.

Speaker 1 I don't know if anyone else feels this way, and don't get me wrong, I love Michael and Holly.

Speaker 1 And maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but

Speaker 4 the PDA. Yes, the freaking PDA.

Speaker 4 Thank you.

Speaker 4 Obviously, so happy for them both. I don't know, guys.

Speaker 1 I, for one, enjoy watching them. No, because

Speaker 4 I don't know. Can I finish? Is that okay?

Speaker 4 I was saying

Speaker 4 I enjoy watching them because it makes me horny. Oh, no.

Speaker 1 He fights so hard for like, can I finish? I know. Can I finish? Like, maybe he's going to say something like.
maybe sentimental or like happy for them. Like new love.

Speaker 1 We should let them explore this time.

Speaker 2 And then he ends with that. But it makes them horny.
Oh, Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 That is really good.

Speaker 1 Well, I love that our writers made all of our characters so layered.

Speaker 1 It was such a gift to get to play characters like this on a sitcom.

Speaker 2 Really.

Speaker 1 You know, they were always willing to give us things that would surprise the audience to play.

Speaker 1 Us. And us.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right, Angela, I'm handing it over to you. I think you have a very fun deep dive area of interest.
I do.

Speaker 1 My deep dive area of interest, so funny, such a long title, was inspired by this fan question sent in from Alexander G in Houston, Texas.

Speaker 1 Alexander wrote and said, I have heard a lot of theories that Kevin is secretly a genius and is committing fraud with company money.

Speaker 1 There have been some hints in some episode, like in season three, when Martin Nash explains why he went to prison. I want to know y'all's thoughts on this theory.

Speaker 1 Well, Alexander, there are lots of, lots of fan theories about this, and it sent me down a rabbit hole. I found so many moments on the show that support the secret genius theory.

Speaker 1 So my title is Kevin Malone, dot, dot, dot, secret genius.

Speaker 2 Not dot, dot, dot, dot, dot.

Speaker 1 No, no.

Speaker 1 Just three dots. Just three dots.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Which, by the way, my kids have told me, my teenagers, that doing the dot, dot, dot is a very old person thing.

Speaker 1 I've heard any punctuation in a text is like an old person thing. Any capitalization, any periods.

Speaker 1 They can't live in that world where we aren't punctuating things.

Speaker 2 We were like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 1 And then they went through our family text thread. And the one that really made us all laugh is that Josh texted the family text thread and said, coming home from the gym, dot, dot, dot.

Speaker 1 And the kids were like, dot, dot, dot, what? What? Wait, he didn't put anything after dot dot dot? No, coming home from the gym, dot, dot, dot.

Speaker 1 And he was like, I just wanted you guys to know I'm coming home from the gym. I add a lot of dot dot dots in my text messages to sort of help you read it the way I would want you to.

Speaker 1 For me, it's like I'm moving thoughts here. Yeah, I know.
I'm kind of, I'm like, I feel like as an actor, I appreciate a lot of punctuation because it helps me get a feel for the dialogue.

Speaker 1 And on the office, there were a lot of dot, dot, dots in our scripts. I know.
They wanted to like suggest pauses and transitions from one thought to another.

Speaker 1 So I'm, I guess I love a lot of punctuation. Well, it means you're old when you text.
Oh. Also, my kids said that Josh is like, he's the king of dot, dot, dot, but I'm the queen of emojis.
Oh. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Thumbs up, heart. Lady dancing.
Yeah, emojis mean you're old too, right? Yeah. The young in stone emoji? I don't know.
I don't know either. Okay.
We don't know because we're old. We wouldn't know.

Speaker 1 We wouldn't know. Okay, sorry.
Where was I? Oh, Kevin Malone. Dot, dot, dot.
Secret genius. Yes, please go on.
Let's start with something that Jenna, you and Kevin have in common.

Speaker 2 What?

Speaker 1 You're both fantastic poker players. Oh, yes.

Speaker 1 Yes. We learn about Kevin's poker playing in Casino Night Season 2.
Here's the moment I'm talking about. You referred to it.
Let's hear this Kevin Talking Head.

Speaker 4 I won the 2002 $2,500 no-limit deuce to 7 draw tournament at the World Series of Poker in Vegas. So yeah, I'm pretty good at poker.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 a little bit of a flex there.

Speaker 1 And, you know, after watching that Kevin Talking Head, I thought, what makes a good poker player? What do they all have in common? Here's what the internet has to say, folks. Okay.

Speaker 1 They are disciplined, patient, confident, have a mental toughness, and a strong understanding of game theory and the math behind poker strategy.

Speaker 1 They can manage their bankroll effectively and have strong analytical skills, decision-making, plus the ability to read opponents, adapt to different playing styles, and know how to bluff and to maintain emotional control.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 1 Wowzers. It's a lot.
It's a lot, lady. You and Kevin can do all that.
I don't know if I can make you do all that all the time. Well, I think this definitely supports is Kevin a secret genius.

Speaker 1 He's a lot smarter than he lets on, and there are several more moments that show this.

Speaker 1 In season three, in the episode The Convict, we learn that Martin was in prison for insider trading.

Speaker 1 Kevin has a talking head where he says, I had Martin explain to me three times what he got arrested for because it sounds an awful lot like what I do here every day.

Speaker 1 What's Kevin been doing? Has he been trading Dunder Mifflin stock or other securities? I mean, what's happening? Maybe some embezzlement? Maybe.

Speaker 1 Then there's the time Kevin outplays Andy and Daryl in the game Dallas in the garage sale episode. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Let's hear that.

Speaker 4 Well, there's no instructions. It's Dallas game.
We could figure it out. Yeah.
I'm pretty good at board games. Well, shall we make it a little interesting? Sure.

Speaker 4 I'm gonna play me a little old blackmail card. Nice.

Speaker 4 And call a proxy meeting and take control of you and oil once and for all. No, you can't do that.

Speaker 4 You can't play a blackmail card and call a proxy meeting in the same turn. Why not?

Speaker 4 Seems to me we're just making up rules because somebody forgot to staple the rule book to the inside of the game like a normal human being. And I'm gonna play this here share the wealth card,

Speaker 4 which entitles me to half of both of you all's money. So, if you don't mind, no, this card is from the wrong game.
This is from the game of life.

Speaker 4 It was in the box. Well played.
We must honorably adhere to the rules that we are making up on the spot. No, but that's not fair.
Well, that's Dallas.

Speaker 4 Dallas, indeed.

Speaker 4 Okay, guys, it's my turn. You can't go, you're dead.
I shot you five moves ago. Yeah, I told you you can't shoot people.
I told you we're way past rules. We have been for some time now.

Speaker 4 I started having rules now. Everything we built collapses.
Well, this is stupid, and I want my money back.

Speaker 4 Where's the money?

Speaker 4 Yeah, where is it?

Speaker 4 Okay, you know what? I am never, ever playing games with you two again

Speaker 4 And that

Speaker 4 is Dallas

Speaker 1 Uh-huh. Do you remember? So what he does is he distracts them and he takes the money all their money out of the pot.
Wow. Yeah, what did he do in that moment, you guys?

Speaker 1 He adapted to a different playing style. He knew how to bluff.
He maintained emotional control and he got all their money.

Speaker 2 Wow. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Speaker 1 And a special shout out to Sam for helping me put all those clips together because it's throughout the episode. Yes.
But yeah, that's how you play Dallas.

Speaker 1 Then in the accounting web episodes, it's Kevin who finds Angela's accounting error. And it's also revealed that Kevin has an IQ of over 100.

Speaker 1 Which isn't that high. Which isn't that high.
Okay. Okay.

Speaker 1 Not genius level.

Speaker 2 Well.

Speaker 1 In sort of being a secret genius. Maybe secret genius Kevin level.
What does that mean? I don't know. I don't know.
I'm just trying to support my deep dive.

Speaker 1 And in the trivia episode in season eight, it is Kevin who has the winning answers that lead his team, the Einsteins, to victory. Yes.
Then he has an interesting talking head afterwards.

Speaker 1 Let's hear it.

Speaker 4 I know it's easy to say tonight was just a fluke, and maybe it was. But here's a piece of trivia.
A fluke is one of the most common fish in the sea. So if you go fishing for a fluke, chances are

Speaker 4 you just might catch one.

Speaker 1 Oh, and that's a great talking head. And guess what? Fluke fish are very common.

Speaker 1 According to the internet, fluke are abundant in coastal waters from the Gulf of Maine to Florida, especially in the waters from North Carolina to Massachusetts.

Speaker 1 Kevin's right. He knows his fish.
He does. He knows more than we know that he knows.

Speaker 1 Secret genius. Dot, dot, dot.
And let's not forget this moment in Workbus. Jim says, let's go, driver.
Laverne packs up the pie wagon at five. So, and then Kevin immediately starts doing this math.

Speaker 1 He says, at five? That's only 20 minutes from now. The pie shop is 13 miles away.
So at 55 miles an hour, that gives us just five minutes to spare.

Speaker 1 Angela says, so wait, when pies are involved, you can suddenly do math in your head.

Speaker 1 And Oscar says, hold on, Kevin, how much is 19,154 pies divided by 61 pies? Without missing a beat, Kevin says 314 pies.

Speaker 1 Lastly is the thing we're going to talk about more in detail with Brian, but Kevin is also a musical genius because he is both the lead singer and drummer, which are notoriously difficult roles to perform at the same time.

Speaker 1 I want to add that a lot of drummers are really good mathematicians. My son is a drummer, and this is something that I have found to be true with other drummers and other drumming musicians.

Speaker 1 I don't know if it is something about rhythm or beat or whatever it is or keeping different rhythms and different beats with different appendages. Yeah.
But there's like a math through line there.

Speaker 1 That's really interesting.

Speaker 1 Well, Alexander, I wanted to thank you for writing in. I do think Kevin is a secret genius and he's very good at reading people and ultimately getting what he wants.

Speaker 1 And as for the second part of your question, did he steal money from Dunder Mifflin over the years? Did he commit fraud?

Speaker 2 Well, you know, I think he very well could have.

Speaker 1 There are several times we learned that he is using the company petty cash for gambling, and Kevin is definitely a little sneaky.

Speaker 1 I think that with almost 100% certainty, we could confirm that he has used the company money for personal reasons. Yes.
Yes. I mean, for sure.

Speaker 2 For sure.

Speaker 1 Well, Angela, I loved that. Why don't we go to break? And when we come back, we will have Brian Baumgartner in the studio to talk all about kevin malone i love it

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Speaker 1 Brian, thank you for joining us in our episode All About Kevin Malone. We've got four Kevin Malone-centered questions for you.
Okay. Are you ready?

Speaker 2 Is this going to be the greatest episode in the history of this show? Yeah, it is.

Speaker 1 We're doing an all-about for each character, and this is your chance to win.

Speaker 2 Oh, okay. Okay.
I'm ready.

Speaker 1 Question number one. Question one.
Did you ever create a backstory for the character of Kevin? And if so, can you share some details of that backstory?

Speaker 2 Wow. Really good question.
Much more in-depth than I thought it was going to be. Thank you for that.

Speaker 1 I'm taking you back to theater school here, Brian.

Speaker 2 Well, here's what I remember, and it comes with a joke. The The breakdowns, the casting listing for Kevin Malone, who, of course, was based on Keith Bishop in the British version of the office.

Speaker 2 The casting notice was as follows.

Speaker 2 The only spectacular thing about Kevin is that he is spectacularly unspectacular.

Speaker 2 Now, the joke in that exists.

Speaker 2 with my manager, who I'm still with to this day, is like calling the casting director, Allison Jones and Phyllis at the time and being like, oh, do I have an unspectacular guy for you?

Speaker 2 This guy is so unspectacular. You know, it's tough because I think that for me,

Speaker 2 and at least when we were brought in, that's where it started. So I felt like the backstory in a way existed, i.e.
vis-a-vis Keith.

Speaker 2 It was was very important to me that his name was Malone. I was asked that.
That was my choice because

Speaker 2 I knew that there were a lot of Irish people in Scranton. Like, they have the second largest

Speaker 2 St. Patrick's Day parade.
Like, this is a big deal.

Speaker 2 And so,

Speaker 2 I thought that that aspect of it was fun.

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 helped to identify fairly early on. So, I think the answer to your question is probably no,

Speaker 2 but I had some ideas about him and who he was and pitched Greg on pretty early. Like I liked the idea of the relationship with someone who had a kid and it was like, but

Speaker 2 before we sort of knew who he was, like as you started to find out those details, a lot of those that I was pitched, but I didn't write a book like I know you did. No, I didn't.
I didn't write a book.

Speaker 1 Well, for example, where did the idea come from for him to be in a band or for him to be good at poker? Were these, I feel like the poker thing had to be from you. Pitches?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so I think that the poker thing was a pitch from me.

Speaker 2 My recollection of that was that whole idea came out of us, one, playing poker like some of the people on the show. Right.
That that idea came out of it.

Speaker 2 I think the whole World Series of poker was because I was good at it. Now, if you remember, the basketball thing was

Speaker 2 that was discovered by Greg then. I mean, that was on the day.

Speaker 1 You were just messing around

Speaker 2 on the week. I mean, it was the week.
I mean, now, if you

Speaker 2 what I joke about is if you give a, we were boys. I mean, Krasinski and I, like, we were children still then.

Speaker 2 And, like, if you have a ball and a hoop in the in a gym as soon as the teacher is not looking like you're shooting like you're dribbling and making the ads crazy because of the bouncing ball and the sound that that has but that's just what we did and so i just remember them feeding you one brian and you made it and then they fed it to you again and you made it and then you made it and then everyone just stopped talking and you were just squishing them yeah i mean that it i think that that the moment of filming which that by the way that was that was one take too I didn't really think about that, but that was one take too.

Speaker 2 That came out of them watching, and it's funny now.

Speaker 2 Kawapas claims it's his idea, Greg claims it's his idea, Corell claims it was his idea, like to turn the cameras on me shooting as everybody's walking off.

Speaker 2 Um, it was sort of prearranged because someone definitely said, like, go over there and shoot, and we'll bring the cameras over to you. But then it went on and on and on.

Speaker 1 Well, my memory was you were shooting, like you said, between takes, yes, and you kept making them. Yes.

Speaker 1 And then we all were like kind of whispering to Matt and Randall, like, you guys should film Brian when he's doing this because he's making them all.

Speaker 2 See, Kenzie takes credit for too. See, like everyone.
No, no.

Speaker 2 Everyone.

Speaker 1 I'm not taking credit. I just remember there was a little bit of a buzz on set.

Speaker 2 Like, there was a discussion. Is someone getting this?

Speaker 1 Is someone getting this? Yes.

Speaker 2 No, that's for that.

Speaker 1 And then it came down to me, and I said, Look,

Speaker 2 Randall, get your ass over there and film this.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so I mean, I think the thing that was really important to me

Speaker 2 was the idea that Kevin was not

Speaker 2 a Kevin. Let me explain that.
That made no sense.

Speaker 2 I think I know where you're going. The idea, if you saw in

Speaker 2 99% of other sitcoms a character such as Kevin, he would exist in a certain way. There would be ketchup stains on his shirt.
It would be untucked. There would be a slovenly, I guess would be the word.

Speaker 2 And so early on in conversations, I don't know if this was a backstory per se, but in talking with the producers, but also wardrobe,

Speaker 2 I mean, even in that basketball scene you just referenced, Kevin's wearing a sport coat. And all of that was very intentional by me.

Speaker 2 I was like, look, he is attempting as best he he can in his dockers and his like

Speaker 2 plaid-ish,

Speaker 2 like very ordinary jackets. He's putting it together.
He has his tie on. It's not loose.
Like he's putting it together. It may not work all the best.

Speaker 2 And so I think that there was a series of contradictions that was very interesting to me in that. Like that there are

Speaker 2 things that he is good at that you would not expect him to be good at. So yes, in terms of that, that was something in terms of the construction of the character that was really important to me.

Speaker 2 And the last thing I'll say is that the greatest

Speaker 2 maybe

Speaker 2 insider writer's room joke about Kevin has to do with this very thing, which was

Speaker 2 Kevin was in a band. It was a police cover band.

Speaker 2 He played the drums and was the lead singer. However, now I didn't know this, but this is their joke.
In the police,

Speaker 2 the singing happens off of the beat of the drums.

Speaker 2 So for a person to be a drummer lead singer, you would literally have to be a musical savant to be able to sing off of the beat of the drums that you're playing.

Speaker 2 So that was sort of like a, I don't know, like an encapsulation of the idea that I did want for him. Yeah.
That I did want it to be not that stereotype. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 We like immediately like, oh, we get who that is.

Speaker 1 What about like family of origin stuff? We never meet Kevin's family. Yeah.
Did you have anything in your head about that? No, no.

Speaker 2 No. Not really.

Speaker 2 The Irish thing was important,

Speaker 2 and I know that I came up with that, but that was more regional

Speaker 2 than anything else.

Speaker 2 And the relationship, the idea behind the relationship, it's not revealed for a while, but that was something that we talked about, which I did think about, like what,

Speaker 2 where does he go when he goes home? And again, the idea of not wanting it to be necessarily what you would expect. Like, oh, he is going home to a person, a partner.

Speaker 2 And, oh, there's actually a child there. You know, all of those things again.

Speaker 2 But in terms of like, no, like parents and stuff, that was not a very thing I thought about.

Speaker 1 Brian, do you remember I, because we were over there in the little accounting nook and the writers would come over and say, hey, and I'll never forget one time I said, we were talking about this very thing.

Speaker 1 And I said, I really want to see where Kevin goes when he goes home. Or I want to see where people live.
And I forgot. I think it was maybe BJ.

Speaker 1 And he goes, Angela, it's called the office.

Speaker 2 I was like, oh, okay.

Speaker 2 All right, fair enough. It's not modern family.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, I have a question for you. Was there ever a Kevin storyline that you pitched that never made it in an episode, but you wish it had?

Speaker 2 Yes. I pitched pretty hard, and I don't remember if it was

Speaker 2 at this moment in time, if this was pre-season eight or nine. There had definitely been a romantic, somewhat a story between Aaron and Andy.
I pitched that Kevin and Aaron got together.

Speaker 2 That was my pitch because I thought that sort of, again, one of the things I felt like the show did really well was put together couples that weren't necessarily,

Speaker 2 that you wouldn't necessarily think about. And the idea of Kevin as a tree trunk and Aaron as this hummingbird non-stop energy that just continued to flit around.

Speaker 2 Yeah, my pitch was for them to get together.

Speaker 2 They didn't do it.

Speaker 1 That would have been hilarious. I would have loved to have seen the two of them on a date.

Speaker 2 That's, by the way, I shared that with Ellie when I had a conversation with her on my podcast. And she at least, at least publicly said the same thing.

Speaker 1 There was an episode, though, where for a minute Kevin thinks he is going to date Aaron. Yes.

Speaker 2 And I can't remember if that came out. I mean, I was basically told no.

Speaker 2 I don't think we were told all that often to stay in your lane, but they had this idea for Andy and Aaron, which I think ultimately I'm not sure worked out the way that they had thought that it was going to.

Speaker 2 And that I just felt like I saw early on. I just felt like, I felt like there was a lot of comedic possibility in that.
And I feel like

Speaker 2 they were potentially looking for,

Speaker 2 I mean, it's probably, and I don't know. So I shouldn't speak to it, but a sort of Jim and Pam 2.0 potentially or something.
But I felt like Erin was so strong.

Speaker 2 I mean, her characterization was so strong and so specifically,

Speaker 2 well, like a hummingbird. And Andy was different.
I just, I felt like they were mismatched. I think ultimately the show says that they were mismatched.

Speaker 2 And I just thought, yeah, that was, that's, that was my one pitch.

Speaker 1 Is there a line of dialogue or a talking head that you think embodies the character of Kevin?

Speaker 2 The two that jumped into my head really quickly, I'll share with you, but there's not my final answer. The first one that popped into my head was Elimino

Speaker 2 P.

Speaker 2 The other one, then it suddenly went to, you can't eat cats. You can't eat cats, Kevin.

Speaker 2 Those two made me laugh more than any other ones.

Speaker 1 My favorite, and maybe because it's so fresh in my mind, Brian, is when Kevin goes, Philip, Philip, Philip. It's all about Philip.

Speaker 2 I hate Philip. I think about that every time I hear the word Philip, actually.

Speaker 2 I guess for me,

Speaker 2 this is the cheesy answer.

Speaker 2 This is the more serious answer would be

Speaker 2 it's just nice to win one.

Speaker 1 Oh, that was a great one. That, yeah.

Speaker 1 I think that that does embody Kevin, I think. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think that's, I think that's the answer.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. Our final question is something that Zach Woods asked us

Speaker 1 when we interviewed him. Which he ended up interviewing us, and it was fantastic.

Speaker 2 There you go.

Speaker 1 But I love it. And it is this.

Speaker 1 If you could go back and relive any moment from our nine years together on the office, and I guess specifically playing Kevin, since this is all about Kevin Malone.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 What would you like to relive or re-experience?

Speaker 2 Wow, as playing Kevin.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, I guess since this is all about Kevin Malone, but you can tell us as Brian, too.

Speaker 1 Yeah, if there was a day you could go back to on the set.

Speaker 2 Not being in the swimming pool.

Speaker 1 That was the worst. That was horrible.

Speaker 2 That's enough.

Speaker 1 We know what you don't want to do.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm going to give a couple of those. Not being in the parking lot for any number of episodes, but specifically I remember the fire episode.
It was so hot.

Speaker 2 It was just like so horrifying.

Speaker 1 Because we didn't have chairs.

Speaker 2 We didn't have chairs.

Speaker 2 I was in a coach. We were in coaches.

Speaker 1 We didn't sit. We didn't sit.
We just stood on that black top.

Speaker 2 My shoes melting.

Speaker 1 And we had to look up and like, it was so hot. Yeah.
Okay, so

Speaker 2 we're not reliving those. Not those.

Speaker 2 Not, you know, spoiler alert, Kevin did a lot of physical comedy in the show and like big things where I was never injured. When we worked in the warehouse and we put oil on the ground and

Speaker 1 slid across the boxes.

Speaker 2 And then there was a talking head where I think it was John and Rain, Jim and Dwight, talking on a sofa. It was definitely one of them, maybe both of them, like together.

Speaker 2 And it was, oh, just walk behind them and then slip and disappear. My back still hurts.
Oh, no.

Speaker 2 Just like, because it was like, and I had to go down fast. Yeah.
That was not my favorite. I loved it.
I was just answering not what my not favorites were.

Speaker 1 I feel like the moment you want to relive is the scene with Pam

Speaker 1 played by just the amazing Jenna Fisher.

Speaker 2 God, she was so good, wasn't she? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Or maybe

Speaker 1 you had a scene in accounting with the just comedic talent that is Angela Kinsey. Yeah.
Not sure how you pick between the two.

Speaker 2 I don't remember her.

Speaker 1 Do you know one of my favorites, Brian? And this was just us being ridiculous because we were always messing messing with each other, like we said.

Speaker 1 But I'll never forget that time where I was just supposed to say to Oscar something about payroll, and you turned and bumped into me by accident. And when you hit me, I went

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 1 you body checked me.

Speaker 1 And we, we started laughing so hard and they were like, no, keep that in. So every time he bumped into me and I would go

Speaker 1 payroll.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I got in trouble for that over the years because then we started doing that a little bit over the years and then yeah, you were getting hurt sometimes.

Speaker 1 And then you pushed me into a hedge. I know what you want to relive.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Work bus.

Speaker 2 Oh, probably.

Speaker 2 That's another one. Where we all almost died.

Speaker 2 That one? Yeah.

Speaker 2 That one. Oh, Brian Granson.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 You don't want to relive anything. You're like, I did it.

Speaker 2 Stop trying to make me go back there. No, look, I think that for me,

Speaker 2 I mean, there's like the easy easy answer now, right? Which is like the chilly one, which again was all alone when no one else was there.

Speaker 1 Also, your hands were stained.

Speaker 2 That was great.

Speaker 1 Your hands were stained for so long.

Speaker 2 I think that for me, in terms of Kevin,

Speaker 2 the unique

Speaker 2 experience as an actor playing that role with everybody in that space.

Speaker 2 So it's not a specific scene or a moment, but those scenes, and again, not so much the conference room, the conference room.

Speaker 2 I mean, although that intimacy I thought brought amazing comedy, I'm thinking about some of those scenes, Steve walking out of his office

Speaker 2 or walking in that perspective, walking in the front door of Dundromifflin, and there being this group scene and just like, you know, the image of a ball being thrown around

Speaker 2 to everybody in different things. Like that experience,

Speaker 2 which only came,

Speaker 2 which only came because we were in a confined space all there for so much time together. I firmly believe that because it is about amazing writing and writers that write to your characters.

Speaker 2 But the way that we were able

Speaker 2 to learn each other's strengths and comedic sensibility.

Speaker 2 That I think is like Kevin would miss that. I mean, he was fired, so he's no longer there.
You're in Austin, by the way. I know.
Hell knows where she is.

Speaker 1 I'm on the beat farm.

Speaker 2 But Kevin misses that.

Speaker 2 I do have to tell you this, because this was the first thing that popped into my mind. And sometimes that's the best or the worst.

Speaker 2 Like, overall,

Speaker 2 like, Brian thing

Speaker 2 that I wish that I could relive

Speaker 2 was

Speaker 2 that first Golden Globe thing. Like that first experience of the Golden Globe and David Denman driving from my house where we were pre-gaming.

Speaker 2 Angela was there in the hills above Beverly Hills and us driving to the Golden Globes in my recollection, a Honda Civic driven by David Denman

Speaker 2 and thinking we were just going to be allowed there.

Speaker 1 Well, by the way, not the Golden Globes, a party in a garage

Speaker 1 on the top of a parking garage adjacent to that. We've never stepped foot in the actual Golden Globes.

Speaker 2 And maybe that's why. But us like getting out on Wilshire Boulevard and him being like, all right, I'll go find a parking spot because we kind of realized there's no valet at the Golden Globes.

Speaker 2 Like you

Speaker 2 dropped off. We couldn't even make it into the hotel valet because we didn't have a security placard yeah we had nothing we had nothing but that night and how much fun it was

Speaker 2 when i think back about at least the like extra curriculars around the show yeah like that one that was just like the best the best yeah awesome thanks brian thanks for talking all about kevin malone uh this has got to be the greatest episode let me know how it goes okay thanks Bea.

Speaker 1 Angela, I loved that. I know.
And I am also really loving these character breakdown episodes. I hope we can have more cast members come on their character breakdown episodes.
I do too.

Speaker 1 It's one, it's so much fun to see everyone. And then two, I love hearing everyone's thoughts about their character.
We got so attached to these people. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, before we go, I wanted to share one last fan letter. It is from Miles D in Virginia.
Miles says, hi ladies, day one listener, first time emailer.

Speaker 1 I'm listening to episode two of Office Ladies 6.0, all about Michael Scott and your discussion of real-life people with names of famous people slash fictional characters.

Speaker 1 And it reminded me of my high school geometry teacher. He was a slim, handsome man who looked like Michael Bublay, but was named Kevin Malone.
Oh my

Speaker 1 goodness. Luckily for him, the office was just a couple years away from making its resurgence, or he would have been the butt of many jokes.

Speaker 1 That being said, he was a kind, fair teacher, but we all knew he was not to be truffled with. Thank you, ladies, for this podcast and for the office.

Speaker 1 Its effect on me and my sense of humor has been incalculable.

Speaker 1 And anytime I watch the show or listen to the podcast, it feels like a warm blanket. Oh, my goodness.
Miles, I love that you wrote in about your geometry teacher named Kevin Malone.

Speaker 2 I know.

Speaker 1 Aw, well, what a great way to end this episode. Thank you all so much for sending in your questions and comments.
And a big thank you to Brian Baumgartner for stopping by the studio to talk with us.

Speaker 1 Yes, I'm going to share in our Instagram stories where you can get his seriously good chili cookbook. And it is real good.
Seriously good. Seriously good.

Speaker 2 All right, everyone.

Speaker 1 Thanks for listening and have a great week. Thanks, you guys.

Speaker 1 Thank you for listening to Office Ladies. Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.
Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins.

Speaker 1 Our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer, and our associate producer is Ainsley Bubbico. Odyssey's executive producers are Jenna Weiss-Berman and Leah Rhys-Dennis.

Speaker 1 Office Ladies is mixed and mastered by Chris Basil. Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.

Speaker 1 Jenna, guess what? What? The wait is over because Macy's biggest deals of the year are on.

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They have clothes. They have accessories, perfume, makeup.
I mean, it's all there.

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Speaker 1 The Macy's Black Friday sale is happening November 10th through November 29th. Shop now at Macy's.com or in store.