Body Language

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I'm Jenna Fisher and I'm Angela Kinsey.

We were on The Office together and we're best friends.

And now we're doing the Ultimate Office Rewatch podcast just for you.

Each week, we will break down an episode of The Office and give exclusive behind-the-scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you.

We're the office ladies.

Hello.

Hi there.

Today we're going to talk about body language.

Let's do it.

It's season six, episode 23, written by Justin Spitzer and directed by Mindy Kaling.

Here's a summary.

Michael tries to interpret the body language of Jim and Pam's potential client who he believes is interested in him.

That client is Donna, the manager of Sid and Dexter's.

She's come in to buy some printers.

Meanwhile, Gabe is recruiting for Sabre's Print in All Colors Minority Executive Program.

But Dwight's going to get involved.

He has opinions.

Yeah.

Fast fact number one, this episode was directed by our very own Mindy Kaling.

This is the first episode of The Office that Mindy has directed, but she had also directed the subtle sexuality and the third floor office web series.

And those were each three miniature episodes long.

Mm-hmm.

She will go on to direct Michael's Last Dundees in season seven.

And something I realized.

What?

I was thinking about it.

Season six was a really big season for our cast and crew members to direct episodes.

Yes, and also some of our writers' assistants to get episodes to write.

Well, you know, next week, Rain Wilson is going to direct his first episode, The Cover-Up, so I needed a stat.

I was inspired.

Is this like a Dr.

Thibodeau moment?

A little bit.

Okay, let's hear it.

Inspired by.

Of the 26 episodes in season six, only eight episodes were directed by a non-cast or crew member.

And we only had three new directors come on the show.

They were Reggie Hudlin, Seth Gordon, and Mark Webb.

Everybody else was returning or castor crew.

Only three knew for such a big season.

I know.

Well, I love a good stat.

Thank you, Angela.

You're welcome.

Do you love a good mini-deep dive?

Do I?

My fast fact number two is a mini deep dive, but I would like to hear the sting that my son made.

It's an oldie-but a goodie.

Oh, I love it.

The deep dive sting.

You got it deep, you gotta dive.

You put them together, get it three-year.

OG Sting.

I know, one of our very first.

All right, lady, this is a deep dive into the subject of body language.

Anthropologist Ray Birdwistle.

Birdwistle.

Ray?

Birdweistel.

Birdweistel?

Birdwistle.

That looks like bird whistle.

Well, Ray.

pioneered the original study of body language or nonverbal communication, which he called

kinesics.

He determined that the average person actually speaks for only 10 or 11 minutes a day.

He does not hang out with us.

He's never met us.

What?

I know.

Who are these people?

I don't know.

But he said that the average sentence only takes about two and a half seconds to say.

Again,

I don't know who Ray is hanging out with.

Ray whistleblower.

Wait, no, it's not whistleblower.

Bird whistle.

Oh, my God.

Ray bird whistle.

He also believed that over 65% of our communication is done nonverbally.

When it comes to business,

which applies to this episode,

in analysis of thousands of recorded sales interviews and negotiations during the 1970s and 1980s, researchers found that in business encounters, body language accounted for between 60 to 80 percent of the impact made around a negotiating table.

So, like, if you have like confident body energy, I'm fascinated.

Keep going.

Okay.

They also found that people form up to 80% of their initial opinions about a person in less than four minutes.

Wow, you have four minutes, guys.

You have four minutes.

Studies also showed that when people are negotiating over over the telephone, the person with the stronger argument usually wins.

But this is not true when negotiating face-to-face because overall, many final decisions were based on what we see rather than what we hear.

Hmm.

Get ready for this, though.

Okay.

So, you know, a big part of this episode is everyone in the office kind of telling Michael.

that Donna does not have feelings for him.

Or some people think she might.

There's sort of a debate happening between Pam and the rest of the bullpen.

But it's only Pam and the rest of the bullpen.

Yeah.

But I feel like Pam represents people that might think that.

Who?

I don't know.

When I watched it, I kept asking the same questions Pam was asking.

Like, why is she still here?

Yes, as an audience member, but within the office, the only voice we hear that there might be interest is Pam's, right?

Yeah.

Well, from the book, The Definitive Book of Body Language by Alan and Barbara Peace from September 2006,

most women have the brain organization to out-communicate any man on the planet.

That's a quote.

I'm just saying.

You're just quoting.

I'm quoting.

Magnetic resonance imaging brain scans clearly show why women have a far greater capacity for communicating with and evaluating people than men do.

It is because women have between 14 and 16 areas of the brain to evaluate others' behavior versus men's four to six areas.

That is fascinating.

Literally, more areas of the brain.

This book says this explains how a woman can attend a dinner party and rapidly work out the state of the relationships of the other couples at the party, who's had an argument, who likes who, who doesn't like who, and so on.

And it explains why, from a woman's standpoint, men don't seem to talk much.

And from a men's standpoint, women seem to never shut up.

That's a quote from the book.

It is so funny to me because there will be some parent thing that we attend.

We go to so many, you know,

for school and stuff, soccer, and we'll leave.

And I always call it the car ride home conversation.

Like, I can't wait for the car ride home conversation.

Yes.

That's where we get to download about all the stuff we saw at the event.

And I get in the car and I'm like, Josh, did you catch that?

And he's like, what?

What are you talking about?

I'm like, ah, yeah.

Same.

Yeah.

Car ride home.

Ah.

Lee likes the car ride home because I tell him all the stuff I saw.

I have even more information about this.

I couldn't stop.

Research by psychologists at Harvard University showed how women are far more alert to body language than men.

They showed men and women short films with the sound turned off of a man and a woman communicating, and the participants had to decode what was happening just by reading the expressions on the screen.

The research showed that women were able to read the situation correctly 87% of the time, but men could only do it 42% of the time.

Aww.

Sorry, guys.

But they did say that men in nurturing occupations, such as stay-at-home dads, artistic types, acting, nursing, they did nearly as well as the women did.

Gay men also scored very well.

And new mothers scored highest.

And they believed that that was because they were spending all day reading the nonverbal body language cues of their infants.

And so they were very finely attuned to these signs.

Yeah.

I think this is proof why Pam, a new mother and a woman, is reading the body language correctly and no one else is.

Do you think Justin Spitzer had that in mind?

I doubt it, but it makes sense.

It is backed up by scientific research.

I loved all of that.

Did you like that?

I could hear more.

Okay, I feel like I've been talking a long time.

Fast fact number three, Angela is all yours because Angela got in touch with Hide.

Yes, we have been trading messages.

We finally connected and I am so excited.

Well, you know, he had that great talking head and happy hour and then he comes back again again in this episode.

I know.

So Hide Toshi Amura plays Hide in the warehouse.

And I asked him about his time on the show.

He had the most wonderful answers.

I'm going to sprinkle them throughout the episode, but I thought I would start with two of the questions I asked him in Fast Fact 3.

Great!

My first question to Hide was our standard question, Jenna.

How did you come to be on the office?

Here's what he said.

Way before doing that big talking head, you know, in happy hour, he did background work as an extra for the show.

At that time, he said he had no idea what the show was about, but his manager called him and asked if he wanted to do some work as an extra.

So he said, sure, and went along with it.

After some time of being a background player, his manager called him and said, they want you to audition for an unknown, bigger role in the show, like a featured role.

He said the role wasn't actually defined at the time, so he had no idea what they wanted or what to expect.

Hmm.

He went to the audition and he said there was was a wide variety of different people from all backgrounds.

He said that when it was time for his audition, he thought he completely botched it.

Oh no.

Yeah.

He said he was embarrassed and he went to his car and he got in his car and as he was about to turn it on, he decided, no, I can't let it in like this.

What?

Yeah.

He got out of his car and immediately asked for a re-audition on the spot.

I love this.

Then he said, they were like, sure.

And he auditioned again and he said, I bombed again.

Oh, no.

He said he felt defeated and he went back home.

And when he was at his lowest and about to go to bed, he got a call from his manager saying, you got the job.

Oh my gosh, this is every actor's story, I have to say.

How many times has this happened to you?

So many, you're like, oh, that was horrible.

And then they're like, oh, guess what?

You got it.

Or you, you're like, I nailed it.

And you're like, we've gone another way.

Yes, so many times.

Well, I remember when they did this audition process, they wanted to fill out the warehouse.

And they knew now that the warehouse was going to be more than just background, that they were going to want to throw lines to people.

So they were trying to fill the warehouse with people who could do speaking roles as well.

So I totally remember this.

Well, I also asked Hide if he had any favorite memories from his time on the set.

And this is what he shared.

And Jenna, it's so sweet.

What?

Here's what he said.

And I quote, I finally remember a moment when I had to do ad libbing on the spot with Jenna for one of the scenes.

And even though my English is not very good, I had a fun time trying my best to keep the conversation going and entertaining.

At that moment, I remembered why I love acting so much.

Oh,

that means so much to me.

I know.

Well, I remember that.

It was in season nine,

and he was great.

I just loved connecting with him.

I'm going to share a few more of his stories along the way.

But, lady, before we get into the episode, would you like to know what we were doing the week we filmed this episode in March of 2010?

Is this a bit of Angela's Digital Clutter?

It sure is.

Angela's Digital Clutter.

Thank you.

Apparently, Jenna, I was very into making banana bread.

Okay.

This time.

And I was bragging to you in an email about my banana bread.

And I had brought some to set.

And you had tried it and you really liked it.

And you emailed me asking me for my banana bread recipe.

To which I replied, four to five mashed bananas, use ripe ones.

Why did I like,

you know what?

A novice banana bread baker wouldn't know.

Okay.

Then I said, two cups all-purpose flour, one cup sugar or less if you can't see your toes.

Am I making jokes here?

Making jokes in my recipe.

Comedy recipe.

I know.

Two large eggs, half a cup shortening or vegetable oil, one teaspoon baking powder, half a teaspoon salt, one teaspoon vanilla.

Enjoy.

No nuts, no raisins in that.

Nope.

Just pure banana bread.

Kept it simple.

I hope you're going to post that full recipe in Office Ladies Pod Stories on Instagram.

I will post it exactly as I emailed it to you.

Very good.

Are you still making that banana bread?

I am, except now I do one other thing with it.

What?

I put a little powdered sugar on top.

Oh,

at the end, you know, after you've let it cool, put a little powdered sugar on top.

Are you allowed to do that if you can see your toes?

Only?

I guess not.

And sometimes I put mini chocolate chips in it.

Oh, I know.

It really has graduated to more of a treat.

I know.

Well, let's take a break.

And when we get back, I have some very interesting inter-office memos between our show and NBC's standards and practices.

Oh, I can't wait.

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All right.

Well, this episode starts with a very chipper Michael.

He is going to greet Erin in Spanish and insist that she answers the phone in Spanish.

He's very excited about speaking Spanish.

Well, he has a talking head where he says that he believes everyone should learn Spanish.

He has a lot of thoughts about it.

And then he says, oh, also I'm going on vacation to Cancun next week.

Who is he going on vacation with?

I know.

By himself?

To Cancun.

I thought it was odd.

I know.

Well, he holds up a little brochure.

That was designed by our graphic designer, Henry Sane.

You know, he was very busy this week.

I'm going to point it out throughout the episode.

He made a lot of stuff, starting with fake Cancun brochure.

Ding, ding, ding, number one, Henry Sane Tracker.

Well, Michael is now gonna go up to Jim and speak Spanish.

And guess what?

Jim is really good,

which is curious because we had a fan catch from Elsa N in Utah and many others who said, in Night Out, Season 4, Episode 15, Jim asks Oscar to translate when the cleaning crew comes to clean the office and they need to be let out of the parking lot.

However, in body language, Jim says multiple sentences in Spanish, which makes you think he can speak it pretty well.

Huh.

Someone was not following the show, Bible.

I guess not.

Also, though, fan question from Honey O in Puerto Rico,

I have a Spanish catch that bothers me every time I watch this episode.

In the cold open, Jim is showing off his Spanish to Michael, but then he says, Yo soy fantastico.

In this specific context in which Jim is asking Michael how he's doing, that phrase is grammatically incorrect.

You can use I am in English to describe a state of being, but not in Spanish.

By saying, yo soy fantastico, you're showing off that you are a fantastic person.

The correct phrasing is yo estoy fantastico, which means that you feel great.

Yes.

You know what?

When he said that, something went off in my brain as error.

Mm-hmm.

It's like some Spanish lesson I learned long ago in a file that honey just unopened.

Thank you, honey.

Yes.

Well, I looked in the script, and none of that was in the script.

In fact, Dwight's greeting was completely different as well.

I think they built this on the day, and that's how the mistake happened.

Mm-hmm.

I concur with your theory.

Well, now Oscar is helping Michael.

Oscar shares with us that Michael is really struggling with the gender part of Spanish.

And so he told Michael to use the international symbol for gender on all the different items in his office so he could learn how to say them properly in Spanish.

Yes, he has covered his office with post-it notes that contain what Michael believes to be the international sign for female and male.

But they are penises and boobs.

Boobs.

Yeah.

We got a fan question from Kim W in Washington and Illinois.

Did all of the post-its have genitals on them?

And if so, who was in charge of drawing those?

Oh my gosh, what a great question.

It's like, honey, what'd you do at work today?

Well, I had a stack of 100 post-it notes that I had to draw boobs on.

Yeah, that's pretty much it.

So those drawings were courtesy of our graphic designer, Henry Saint.

Oh, Henry.

According to Randy, Henry actually had to draw, quote, varying degrees of explicitness.

Oh, my gosh, they had to like pick.

They had like samples of Henry's drawings.

Yes, a variety of samples were presented to Greg and Paul, and they had to pick which ones would go in the episode.

I cannot believe Henry's day that day.

So Randy also shared that the process for getting this scene cleared with standards and practices was insane.

After the table read, Randy sent the script over to NBC, and they responded by saying, You can do the post-it notes, but they have to be blurred.

Okay.

Okay.

So after after we filmed it and they did a cut of the cold open, Greg and Paul sent over a version to standards and practices, but nothing was blurred.

Well, that didn't go over well.

They just sent over the full drawing.

That's right.

Yeah.

Randy got a note back that said, quote, please blur all of the post-its around Michael's office that have visible breasts and penises drawn on them, including the one on Angela's forehead.

That was literally a quote in the memo.

Greg and Paul were not having it.

They pushed back.

They argued that it was much funnier to see Michael's crude artwork.

They said that they were going for a joke about Michael's childlike innocence using what he thinks are the symbols of man and woman, and they believe that the audience would understand the context and not be offended by these drawings.

They went on to say, oh my gosh,

the painting of the Sistine Chapel in the Vatican

contains more detailed nudity nudity than these post-it notes.

They're invoking the Sistine Chapel?

Yes, and they had Randy attach a photo of the Sistine Chapel to their argument.

What if this becomes the new thing where if you have an argument about whatever, you invoke the Sistine Chapel.

That's right.

This was their response.

Quote,

we agree that the drawings are silly.

Having said that, we have had this exact issue to address on other shows, and legal is not willing to take the risk and allow this.

Please blur the images.

P.S., we don't give a crap about your Sistine Chapel reference.

Greg and Paul were not convinced.

Come on.

They took it themselves to the NBC legal department, and the NBC legal department said, blur it.

That still wasn't the end.

No.

They sent a sample of the cold open, finally with the images blurred and they wrote back more blurry.

Come on.

Yeah.

Finally, their second attempt at blurring the post-its was approved and that is what you see in the episode.

That is hilarious to me that Greg and Paul like became so determined.

Yeah.

Exactly.

All right.

So this episode has such a fun Jim Pam storyline.

I really enjoyed it.

Pam's enthusiasm for their joint sales pitch is so stinking cute.

And Jim does not know what to do with her.

She's just like turned into this whole other person with like comedy bits and she's got shtick.

And the whole time they're talking, I just wanted more.

I wanted to see more of this dynamic.

I give, he takes.

I know.

By the way, during that double talking head, when you go, hey, at the end, I am telling you that final look to camera was just John.

I not to

because I think you surprised him.

And he was like, oh, gosh.

Well, we had a fan question from Kyle T in Houston, Texas.

Jenna, who did you model Pam's comedy after in this episode?

Oh, please do tell.

Well, in the script, there was a note that said I should do a quote vaudeville take on those lines.

And you did.

I did it.

We also got a fan question from Fiona L in Melbourne, Australia.

Pam has been very sooty and hair-up lately.

She seems to be hitting it quite hard.

Does this design indicate she's trying to fake it until she makes it with sales?

What was the intention here?

Fiona, I'd like to invite you to Jenna's Digital Clutter.

Ooh!

Jenna's Digital Clutter from her digital pockets.

Thank you.

I love it.

I love it.

Thank you, Audrey.

Audrey did that sting, Sam's girlfriend.

Yes, she did.

And it is so fun.

Digital pockets.

Well, here's what I've got in my digital pockets, folks.

Pam's hair was up last week, too.

And when I saw it for the second time this week, I remembered that Kim Ferry and I had a long discussion about what Pam's hair would be like after having Cece.

That's what I thought.

Yes, and my digital clutter confirmed it.

I found an email from Kim titled Pam Mom Hair.

And we were trying to decide if Pam would cut her hair

or put her hair up after having the baby.

But either way, we had this whole backstory that Pam had to keep her hair shorter or up because it was like getting in the way of things.

Also, who has the time?

Yeah.

I mean, when you have a newborn, you just throw your hair up in something.

Well, guess what, Kim had sent me?

What?

She had sent me a photo of our Pam haircut test.

test.

She put a wig on me.

Oh, please tell me I can put that in stories.

You can of Pam having a short haircut.

Interestingly enough, it looks quite a bit like my haircut now.

Oh,

so yeah.

Ultimately, we decided to just pin up Pam's hair.

I love that detail.

Well, now the client that Jim and Pam are planning to woo is going to come on in.

And guess who it is?

It's Donna Newton, the manager of Sid and Dexter's.

Did somebody order a hooker?

Michael says that is what he leads with.

That's his compliment.

Yeah,

that's what he leads with.

Well, there was a really fun Creed runner.

It's in deleted scenes.

When Donna arrives, Creed hides.

And here's why.

I guess you remember everybody else from when we visited you at your restaurant.

I bet you memorized what everybody drinks.

Not really.

No.

No.

Yeah, dined and dashed.

Usually they don't follow you to your place of work.

Happens sometimes.

Part of the game.

How often is he dining and dashing?

I can't imagine he's ever paid for a meal.

I agree.

I actually agree.

So if you watch the episode in that scene in the background, if you don't see Creed, it's because he's hiding.

Oh,

interesting.

Michael's going to have a talking head, and he's going to talk about how he met Donna a few weeks ago, and now they're in the midst of this passionate love affair.

Just kidding, she's just coming to buy printers.

They had a whole bunch of candy bag alts for Steve as Michael in this moment.

Oh, yeah, I just am picking one to read, but you guys, whenever I look at these candy bags, I am reminded about how many they would hand us-like so many

pages.

Yeah, okay.

Here's one that I thought was funny: Michael alternate talking head.

Is Donna attractive?

Yes.

Am I attractive?

I've been called that, whatever.

Yes.

Is Donna a manager?

Yes.

Am I a manager?

I pretty much invented the term.

Yes.

Have I finally met my equal?

I'm not thinking about that.

I have printers to sell.

Oh, I really like that.

I loved it.

I really like that.

Well, now Michael is going to introduce Pam and Jim as the Wonder Twins.

Yeah.

Sort of implying that they're twins.

Yes.

And Donna is like, oh, yeah, I see the resemblance.

She says says you look exactly alike.

Pam corrects her, says, no, no, no, we are married.

But Donna is certain that they have some ancestral relation going way back.

And then there's a little bit of Angela's snark.

Yeah.

Angela says, you should see their baby.

And I went to the script because the script note for this unspoken exchange between Pam and Angela that follows is amazing.

It says this.

Angela shakes her head slightly like something's not right with it.

Angle on Pam.

What the f?

That's what the script said.

I also love that Angela like clearly has been thinking about this because her first response is, I knew it.

Yeah.

Well, Jim is now presenting to Donna in the conference room their sales pitch for my folks that love to see what happens in the conference room, who is moving the tables, who is moving the chairs.

Why are all the chairs stacked in the far left corner?

Who did that?

There's a stack of chairs?

There's a stack of chairs.

Well, at three minutes and 41 seconds, that graphic that Jim is showing to Donna that was designed by Henry Sane, that's three now on our count.

Michael's going to walk in and he has a very time-sensitive question.

He needs to know if Donna would like this Victoria's Secret catalog because the sale ends soon.

She's like, yeah, I'd love it.

Thank you.

Can I say something about Victoria's Secret?

I don't mean to be controversial.

I was going to say, here we go.

I don't think they make the best bras.

I just,

like as a teenager,

I sort of like, I don't know, I feel like I got all the promotional stuff and like to get the best bra, that's where you go.

They're very expensive.

I don't think they're great.

I mean, I found found just like much better bras since.

I think you can, I don't know, you can skip it in your bra buying journey.

Since you're bringing up Victoria's Secrets.

She doesn't bring up what?

Victoria's Secrets.

She only has one secret lady.

She doesn't have lots of secrets.

No, I think just one.

I don't know what it is, but it's Victoria's secret.

Oh, she just has the one secret.

I am turning into my mom because my mom pluralizes things that aren't plural, but then she makes things singular that aren't singular.

Yeah.

So I'm my mom.

Okay.

So it's not Victoria's many secrets.

It's her one secret.

And her secret is that her bras are sh.

That's her secret.

I am wearing a no-wire bra right now

that

folks recommended to me.

It's got a big band.

It looks really good.

Yeah.

It's got a big old supportive.

It's got a big band.

So like the band is substantial.

And it's from Jockey.

This is what I'm saying.

I'll send you a link.

All right, let's go to the kitchen, where Gabe is telling Daryl about Sabre's Print in All Colors Minority Executive Training Program.

For those of you that love a good giant cheeseball container sighting, go to 4 Minutes 18 Seconds.

It's very featured behind Dwight during this scene.

Well, quickly after that, at 4 Minutes and 26 Seconds, the Print in All Colors brochure, again, Henry Sane.

That's number number four.

Number four.

I'm kind of loving this job.

Like, if you're a graphic designer, you went to school for graphic design.

Is this the best job ever?

Like, designing for a comedy television show?

You get to create all kinds of stuff.

Yeah, it seems sort of exciting.

I'm kind of digging his job.

Listen, something we have to talk about, though, is Dwight.

Dwight doesn't understand why Daryl suddenly gets this opportunity and he doesn't.

He points out a number of ways that he himself is a minority.

He wears glasses.

He's a cholera survivor and he's a genius.

And a non-organic family farmer.

Genius.

Really, Dwight.

Interesting.

But Dwight's big takeaway from this meeting with Gabe and Daryl is that he does not want a competent hard worker like Daryl to get this job.

He wants somebody who he can manipulate.

And that means Kelly.

Yeah.

Dwight thinks with this program, Daryl might get Michael's position or higher.

And that's what Dwight has wanted.

Yeah.

So he's got to sabotage him in his mind.

That's right.

So he's going to go over to Kelly's desk and he's going to tell her about the program.

Random background catch.

If you look past Kelly's bedazzled saber water bottle, you can see a candle that someone has wedged two thumbtacks into.

You know those people, those people that have to stick stick something in a candle.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Now that you say it.

Yeah.

I mean, what is that?

I don't know.

I've done it.

I have an irony alert in this scene.

Irony.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Dwight looks at Kelly and says, how many Indian CEOs can you think of?

Well, my friends, I think we're looking at one, Ms.

Mindy Kaling.

Yes.

She has her own media company, Kaling International.

I know she's president for sure.

She may not be CEO, but I mean, please, to the queen that is Mindy Kaling.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I want you to know there was a deleted scene between Dwight and Gabe later in the episode where Dwight says the same thing to Gabe.

How many Indian CEOs can you name?

And Gabe lists off a whole bunch.

I love that.

Back in the conference room, Michael is now going to take over, like he does.

He's got a whole slideshow ready to go.

Yeah, but what Michael's projecting are a series of images that go back and forth between Michael and

I guess things intended to turn Donna on.

Yeah, here's Michael's talking head.

He says, it's subtle.

That's how it works.

I show her an image that turns her on, and then she looks at me, then back at me, then back at the image.

Soon she doesn't know what is me and what is the image.

She just knows that she's turned on.

Yes, and then the last slide quickly just says sex.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

This whole scene made me think of a college advertising class I had where we talked about subliminal messaging.

Lady, we had that class in my high school and I wrote my senior paper on the subject.

Oh my gosh.

Well, I have nothing new to share with you then, Jenna, but I will tell you, here are a few things I found online and I'm sure you can add to it.

According to a website called HubSpot, subliminal messaging and advertising is designed to engage people subconsciously.

These ads use various colors, shapes, and words that enable customers to make a small but powerful association between a brand and an intended meaning.

As I looked up Subliminal Messaging, Jenna, one guy's name kept coming up.

Who?

James McDonald Vickery.

What did he do?

Get ready for this.

The whole concept of subliminal messaging was first introduced by him.

He was a marketing researcher, and in 1957, he claimed that he did an experiment in which moviegoers were repeatedly shown a 1,300-second advertisement saying something to the effect of hungry, eat popcorn, drink Coca-Cola.

Based on these claims, the CIA got involved and did a report called The Operational Potential of Subliminal Perception in 1958 that led to subliminal cuts being banned in the U.S.

Wow.

The CIA suggested that, quote, certain individuals can at certain times and under certain circumstances be influenced to act abnormally without awareness of the influence.

Wow.

So here's the twist.

Vicker provided no explanations for his results or any other details about his study to the public, claiming it was part of a confidential patent.

Years later, Stuart Rogers interviewed the theater where Vicker supposedly conducted the experiment, and the theater manager said that no such test ever happened at that theater.

What?

In a television interview in 1962 for Advertising Age, Vickery admitted that the original study was a gimmick

and that the amount of data was too small to be meaningful.

After this interview, Vicker shied away from media attention, but his papers are held by the Thomas J.

Dodd Research Center at the University of Connecticut.

There have been many commentaries and theories about this since it happened.

But I thought that was fascinating.

That seems to disprove subliminal advertising works.

Like it was a hoax.

Yes, exactly.

Supposedly, Vickery admitted that he never conducted the subliminal experiment and it was a gimmick to attract customers to his failing marketing business.

Oh my gosh.

I know, but it started a whole conversation about marketing and advertising and how to attract people to your brand and make associations.

This led me to a bunch of websites that talked about subliminal messagings and company logos.

And I want to share a few of my favorites.

All right.

You know the chips, Tostitos?

Yep.

Okay.

So have you ever noticed that the two T's in the middle of Tostitos are two friends sharing chips and salsa?

Yes.

I thought that was so cute.

My son.

got really obsessed with logos and hidden messages in logos.

So about a year ago, I would spend pretty much every Saturday and Sunday looking at logos with him and talking about the hidden messages.

This was like a big part of my parentsing life for a while.

Well, my kids showed me the Baskin-Robbins one.

Remind me.

Okay, so in blue, you know, it says Baskin-Robbins.

The store is famous for selling 31 flavors of ice cream.

And if you look at the non-blue part of the logo that's pink, you can see a three and a one within the B and the R.

Oh, good one.

I know.

Okay, here's another one.

The FedEx logo has an arrow between the E and the X.

Yes.

That's outlined in white.

Maybe that's to show the company's speed and delivery, the arrow.

Amazon, very recognizable logo.

If you notice, there is a yellow arrow that points from the A to the Z.

And, you know, I'm guessing here the messaging is that they sell everything from A to Z, right?

So those were a few of my favorites, but it's a very interesting concept or idea about logos and marketing and brands and what we retain from this messaging and if it works with brand association.

Well, what do we think?

Do we think Donna is picking up on Michael's messages?

I think, how can you not?

I have a little slideshow breakdown for you.

Oh, I'd love it.

Courtesy of Randy Cordre.

At six minutes and 21 seconds, you see a photo of a muscled man in his underwear.

This was a licensed stock photo purchased for 350 dollars from getty images and the model's name was raymond hemmings at six minutes and 29 seconds you see a picture of tom sellick

this was originally scripted to be a rather famous image of a nude burt reynolds on the furry rug yes yes i guess that was from cosmopolitan magazine but Cosmo's managing editor did not allow us to use it.

So we use the picture of Tom Selleck instead.

That is also a licensed stock photo of Tom Selleck from Getty Images.

And at six minutes and 35 seconds, the torso of a ripped bodybuilder that Michael is standing in front of, that was also from Getty Images.

That is how we built that slideshow.

This scene is going to end with Michael kind of going in for a kiss.

Oh my gosh.

Pam and Jim are watching from by the water cooler.

Just so cringy.

Michael is going to try to recover by calling Jim back in.

I think we should take a break and when we come back we're going to be in Michael's office with Jim and Pam.

And who knew he keeps a tin of shortbread on the ready?

I have a fan question all about it.

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We're in Michael's office.

Jim and Pam are trying to reason with Michael.

Maybe kissing people at work isn't such a good idea, right?

That's right.

And mid-conversation, Michael goes, shortbread?

Pam says I'd love one.

He has a tartan tin full of shortbread ready to go.

Guess what this shortbread cookie produced?

What, Sam?

It's a fan mail flurry.

As you can see, we're keeping Audrey quite busy.

I know.

That's right, a fan mail flurry from Caitlin B in Philadelphia and many, many, many, many others.

Why does Michael offer Pam a shortbread?

It feels super random.

Was that an improv moment?

Was there supposed to be another scene addressing the shortbread?

What's going on?

No.

This was scripted this way?

Yeah.

Just this moment.

We're never going to hear about shortbread again.

There's no deleted scenes about shortbread.

I was delighted because I love a shortbread cookie.

I do too.

Did you know?

That shortbread has a ratio of one part white sugar to two parts butter, and and then there's a little bit of flour maybe some vanilla but it does not contain any leavening agent there is no baking soda no baking powder they originated in scotland let me tell you what shortbread cookies are to my life now they are very important

because they do very well gluten-free

and i brought some today did you really yes i did ma'am oh my gosh i'm so excited i'm hungry as soon as i saw that tin in michael's office it made me want to eat a shortbread cookie.

And I knew that today, when we started talking about it, I would want to eat a shortbread cookie, so I brought them.

I'm so excited.

One of my favorite things about the podcast is our show and tell moments, whether it's Scotch and Splenda or beet vodka.

These are

Walker's brand gluten-free pure butter shortbread cookies.

You had me at two parts butter.

Oh, I know.

There you go, lady.

Thank y'all.

Delicious.

So good.

Josh does a type of shortbread cookie where he puts a little bit of raspberry jam on it.

It's so good.

Yeah.

It was a very popular way to do it.

Oh, something else I want to bring up about this scene.

This is the first time where Pam

kind of, what would you call it?

Like, she sees Michael's side of things.

She says if Donna was really that upset, she would have left by now.

I don't know.

Yeah.

She's then going to have this scene with Jim outside of Michael's office where she offers to back out and let Jim finish the pitch with Michael.

I have two things to point out in this moment.

What?

Mindy directed this episode, and I have to imagine she purposely put Michael behind the blinds, peeping in between Jim and Pam.

Every time he creeps into frame, like if you go to eight minutes, 22 seconds, it cracked me up.

And I found a whole bunch of bloopers because clearly it made you and John laugh too.

I think we need to hear him.

It's whenever Steve comes into frame between the two of you.

Okay.

Just let him flirt with her.

People meet each other all sorts of ways.

Who are we to stand in the way?

Pam, you know he's not going to get anywhere and you know he's going to blow our sale.

Who cares?

It's not that huge a sale.

The schwab.

Pam, you know he's not going to get anywhere and you know he's going to blow our sale.

Who cares?

It's not that huge a sale.

The schwab guy told us.

That was right when it came into frame.

Every time John had to say the schwab guy

and he could not get it out.

It was so fun to watch.

Well, over in the break room, Dwight is trying to coach Kelly for her interview for the Print in All Colors Initiative.

And I want you to know, oh, I know what you're going to say.

What am I going to say?

Oh, I think I know what you're going to say.

What are you going to say?

Well, now I'm not going to say that.

Do you think we're going to say the same thing?

Do you want to say it at the same time and see if it is?

Okay.

One, two, three.

Scranton Strangler.

Oh my gosh.

Yes.

The third mention of the Scranton Strangler this season.

Yes.

And also we learned that Kelly has some very strong feelings on guys that wear their cell phones outside their pants.

She says, just put it in your pocket.

Yeah, but that's when Dwight mentions the Scranton Strangler.

He says, wearing his cell phone outside his pants makes it a lot easier for him to say, 911, hello, Scranton Strangler is inside the house.

Inside the house.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

Let's do the whole rest of the podcast in Houston.

Oh, my goodness.

Yep, I highlighted it.

Scranton Strangler mention.

Back in the bullpen, everybody is watching what's going on in the conference room.

And they all have a lot of opinions over whether or not Donna is flirting with Michael.

This scene was longer, and in it, we learned what Andy thinks third base is.

Do we get to hear it?

Oh, we do.

Oh, thank goodness.

Baseball, really?

I always thought it was based on orchestra chairs.

And now you're telling me there's a third bass in the orchestra.

No, that's a bass-heavy orchestra.

Oh, yeah.

And guess what?

What?

There were candy bag alts for this talking head.

Here was one.

that didn't make it, but that Ed had to deliver as Andy.

How do I know a girl's interested?

I call her up on stage, get down on one knee, and sing Sign Your Name by Terrence Trent Darby.

Then I give her a rose.

If she's interested, she'll find me at the CD table.

Huh.

So, how many times did he sing to a gal in a cappella?

I don't know.

And then go and wait for her at the CD table.

Now, Donna is going to inquire about a discount, but when she does, she takes her jacket off.

And I felt like Michael had that same moment that everyone had at Coachella when Harry Styles took his coat off.

That was a moment.

Who's with me in the sound booth?

It was a moment.

Cassie, I see you.

It was muted, but Cassie giggled immediately.

It's the correct response.

Well, this causes Michael to make a promise he can't really keep, which is that he's going to give her this discount.

But he goes over to check with Oscar, who's running the numbers, and Oscar says, Michael, we will literally lose money if we sell the printers at that price.

I have a question.

Okay.

I probably should have brought it up earlier.

How many printers is Donna buying?

For her bar.

That makes this whole day worth it.

She manages one sit-in dexter's.

I mean, how much printing are they doing?

And then this made me think, like, in general, how does Sabre stay in business?

Like, paper, you need paper on an ongoing basis.

But printers, I mean, how how often are you reselling to the same clients?

It seems like very difficult.

I don't know.

The whole arc of Sabre and their printers is just like literally falling apart for me all of a sudden.

Well, you know, Pam was going to bring that up in some Pam Sass.

She's like, you can buy a printer over the phone.

You can buy a printer at Best Buy.

I know.

I mean, I know.

You don't have to come in and make such a big show and presentation about it.

I could see if we are supplying printers to all of ATT.

Or all of Sid and Dexter's.

Maybe it's a chain.

Maybe there's going to be 300 printers, but I don't think Donna's in charge of that.

No, she manages one.

It's very odd to me.

Let's go over and see what Kelly and Ryan are doing.

They're up to no good.

They're bullying someone online.

At 10 minutes and 32 seconds, you can see her typing on her computer.

That is a fake instant message account created by Henry Sane.

I think that's number five.

Well, Dwight is going to learn pretty quickly that having Kelly take that position might be worse than Daryl because she says she's going to promote Ryan to manager and then they're going to clean house.

Yeah.

Well, Michael has so many people in the bullpen weighing in on this Donna thing.

This starts the whole mint debate.

Like if you offer someone a mint and they say yes,

they might want to make out.

If they say no, they don't want to.

He's going to offer Donna a mint, then eat it off her hand.

We had a fan question from Stacey C.

in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Was Michael eating the mint from the palm of Donna's hand improvised?

Because her reaction looks truly surprised.

I'll tell you, it was not improvised, but it was also not the original idea in the script.

Originally, it's worse.

He was going to put the mint into her mouth very sensually.

Oh, gosh.

On the day, they liked the idea that she would reciprocate the mint, you know, where she eats the mint and then she's like, Do you want a mint?

That's going to make Michael think, uh-huh.

Like, oh, it's on.

And then he would eat the mint off her hand.

This is going to bring a meeting in the kitchen.

It also brings one of my favorite lines.

Which one is it?

Why don't you just shut up?

Yes.

Well, why don't you shut up?

Kevin yells that at 12 minutes, three seconds.

It's also mine.

And I want to point out, it sounded exactly like Brian and not like Kevin.

You think?

Yes.

Oh, can we hear it?

Well, why don't you just move the M ⁇ M?

Why don't you shut up?

Come on, that sounded just like Brian.

I guess.

That is Brian.

That is, I don't think that's Kevin's voice.

Well, during this whole scene, everybody is trying to tell Michael to stop, that Donna does not like him back.

And then Pam is like,

I don't know.

Lady, I went to the message boards to see what fans thought of this episode at the time that it aired.

And there were three things that got the most mentions.

What?

One, people loved when Kevin yells at Andy about his M ⁇ Ms.

Second, People did not think that Pam was acting the same in this episode.

Oh.

Nick said, am I the only one that thinks Pam was really weird in tonight's episode?

Not only the way that she was acting, but how she looked, too.

Sombreros Are Love said, I completely agree with whoever said Pam was weird.

Megan said, I'm worried they're taking Jim and Pam in a weird direction, mainly Pam.

Wow.

But then Sarah defended Pam by saying, How is she acting weird?

She was trying to help Michael with his love life.

And Megan agreed, saying Pam always has a soft spot for Michael's love life and is advising him on what to do.

What do you think?

Did you think it was weird?

I guess the only part that was weird for me is how long she stuck in there with him.

Pam?

Yeah.

Like in the beginning of the episode, all the information is new.

So I could see her being like, well, you know, guys, we don't know.

Maybe she likes him.

I mean, she's here, right?

But I felt like as the day day went, how I normally associate Pam as like the voice of reason.

The voice of reason would have been like, no, Michael, I take it all back.

He's just pumped the brakes.

As Jenna, when I was watching this episode, as soon as I kind of saw her like manipulating him, like taking off her extra jacket,

I started to think, oh, that's what's happening.

She wants a discount on her printer.

Right.

And she's just flirting flirting for that reason but i would like to say pam didn't see that i as a viewer saw that but pam doesn't know that right so she's still thinking maybe she's there for michael not for a printer anyway finally a lot of people on the message boards mentioned that they didn't get any new information on the andy aaron storyline and they were very disappointed you know because they had a very big breakup last week

and they would have liked to have seen some mention of it.

You know, I think they're not going to get much next week either.

Well, you know, there actually is a scene between Andy and Aaron that would have been in next week's episode.

It's in the deleted scenes.

I'll share it next week.

Oh, all right.

Well, Dwight is still freaking out about the idea of Kelly and Ryan running things.

He bursts into Gabe's office.

And this is when he finds out that Daryl has withdrawn his application.

He says he has a scheduling conflict with softball.

Yeah, Daryl says he has his whole life to be a minority executive, but he only has about one year left in his knees.

Kelly is now the only applicant.

Yeah.

And she is going to walk into her interview with Gabe.

She's wearing a beautiful sorry.

Mm-hmm.

Gabe asks her about the bindy that is on her forehead.

She says she's offended by the question.

She won't answer.

But Kelly will tell Gabe about all of her hobbies.

And in the middle of this, Dwight is going to return with a new applicant, and it is Hiday.

He tells Hiday to share his life story, and Hiday begins his same monologue that he gave in Happy Hour.

It delighted me.

I asked Hiday what it was like doing that amazing talking head in Happy Hour, and here's what he said.

I actually did not get a lot of time to think about the big speech for the episode since I got five different variations of my speech at around 10 p.m.

the day before.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

I desperately tried to memorize all five variations.

When I went to the rehearsal, I completely forgot everything.

He went on to say that he decided he was going to work hard to memorize all the different variations so that he'd be ready to go on the shoot day.

When the day came to actually film the scene, he said he was able to say his lines perfectly and he said, I remember I was so happy I was able to do it on the first take or two.

I love it.

He nailed it.

Totally nailed it.

I mean, it's so good.

I also asked Hiday if he still gets recognized for his role in the office.

He said yes, and he has a very sweet story to share.

He said, After doing the big heart surgeon speech, I started to get some people in the street randomly asking me if I was the guy from the office.

I was very surprised because I had no idea the show was so popular at the time.

I remember I had to quickly come up with a fancy autograph because I never thought I would have people asking me for autographs.

But his favorite time getting recognized, he said, said, was by a fan.

It was a little kid who did the signature, the best, double thumbs up to him without saying a word while I was in the supermarket.

Oh, I love that.

The last question I asked Hiday was: if he took anything from set when the show was over.

He said he wasn't there on the last episode, but he did receive an official jacket after the show wrapped.

He said it was a really nice jacket, and one day a fan wanted it so badly that I autographed it and I gave it away.

He's the sweetest person.

So lovely.

He said that he was hoping to get the warehouse worker uniform that he wore during the show,

but he was informed by a fan that his uniform was sold at the NBC auction.

So he tried his best to bid on it so he could get it.

But unfortunately, he was outbid in the end.

But he goes on to say, I'm happy someone liked my role so much that they fought really hard for the uniform and it's it's in the hands of a happy fan.

Well, Hide, I think that is such a sweet point of view on a story that just kind of made me mad.

I know, I want Hide to have his uniform.

Isn't he on Cameo, Ange?

Yes, he is.

Yeah, Cameo is the place where you can find different celebrities and public figures, and you pay a small fee, and they'll make a personal video for you.

Yes, Hide shared with us that he just started doing Cameo for fun, but if anyone wants a personal video message of him as his character, you can go to Cameo and find him.

He is also on Instagram at Hide Toshimura, H-I-D-E-T-O-S-H-I-I-M-U-R-A, and you can follow him there.

He says he posts pretty often.

Thank you so much, Hide.

Thank you.

I'm so glad we got in touch with him.

Good job, Ange.

Aw.

Well, I guess Donna has finally purchased her printer, printers.

How many did she need?

We don't know, but the deal is is done.

Michael is going to walk her out very awkwardly.

There's an awkward hug.

He follows her all the way to nearly the elevators.

Yes.

By the way, at 15 minutes and 11 seconds, remember last time I was talking about the picture?

That was the print?

Yes.

I got a closer look at it.

It's a valley of trees with a waterfall.

So I got closure on that.

Okay, I'm really glad.

I appreciated it.

Michael's pretty glum now.

Yeah.

Donna's gone.

He says he can't trust his own feelings anymore.

And everyone's weighing in on it.

And he comes in with, you know, when I tore my scroat,

I was seeing a hot urologist and I thought she was into me.

It gets confusing down there.

I have a fan catch from Sergio P.

in Mexico.

I wonder if Sergio and I have the same catch.

Does it happen at 17 minutes and 18 seconds and does it involve Pam's desk?

No, what is it?

All right.

Sergio said, if you look under Pam's desk, there's a piece of masking tape on it that says Pam.

He said, is that because you would move the set around and take out the desks?

What a great catch!

Yes!

That's exactly why.

Sergio, I live for that catch.

What's yours?

Mine is at 18 minutes, 7 seconds.

What's up with the stains on the wall?

Stains on the wall?

Oh, there are two stains on the wall by Michael's left shoulder as he is sitting in the chair.

Two stains.

Yeah, no, it's gross.

What do they look like?

Do they look like hands?

Do they look like what?

I don't know if this is because I was eating barbecue chips at the time.

They look like when my kids wipe barbecue chip hands on things.

Oh, gosh.

Yeah.

Gross.

I know.

I know.

It's all I could look at.

Well, two more things are going to happen in this scene.

Gabe announces that Kelly is the newest member of the Minority Executive Program, and Erin finds Donna's hair clip that she left behind.

Mm-hmm.

Michael thinks it's a sign.

She left it on purpose.

Everyone is like, no, no, no, Michael, no.

But he's going to run out to give it to her.

He is.

And guess what?

She says, Michael, you were right.

And she pulls him in for a big kiss.

And all I could think of was, Donna, this is a documentary.

It's going to air at some point.

We'll get to that next week.

We sure will.

But this was a bit of a spy shot, so I believe it that she didn't see the camera.

I believe it.

It was from the office window pointing down into the parking lot.

Well, next week we're going to find out why she had to be so coy,

like around others, around the cameras, how she could only admit her true feelings for Michael when she thought they were alone.

I mean, it's literally the plot of next week's episode.

Michael's going to come back to the office where Kelly is gloating.

She tells Aaron, you know what?

She gets a stipend to buy all new clothes and Erin can have like any of her old stuff.

That she can buy them.

Yeah.

She's not giving them to Aaron.

Aaron can buy them.

And she means any of the clothes she was going to give to Goodwill anyway.

Right, but Aaron can pay her for them.

Michael can't help himself.

He's going to tell everyone what just happened, but no one believes him.

Nope.

And he says it doesn't matter if they believe him or not because he knows it happened.

Also, I did it!

And that is the end of the episode.

Thank you guys so much for re-watching with us.

Thank you to Hiday and to Randy.

And thanks to Audrey for some fun stings.

Yeah, we will be back next week with the cover-up.

See you then.

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

Office Ladies is produced by Ear Wolf, Jenna Fisher, and Angela Kinsey.

Our Our show is executive produced by Cody Fisher.

Our producer is Cassie Jerkins, our sound engineer is Sam Kiefer, and our associate producer is Ainsley Bubico.

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Ratton.

For ad-free versions of Office Ladies, go to StitcherPremium.com.

For a free one-month trial of Stitcher Premium, use code Office.

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