The Delivery, Pt 2 with Lee Kirk

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Hello, office ladies, listeners.

We are breaking in before our theme music because we want to tell you something very exciting.

Because

we found out we are the number one best-selling book, the Office BFFs, on the New York Times bestseller list.

For nonfiction and for e-book, we wouldn't have gotten here without you.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

And now on with the show.

I'm Jenna Fisher.

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

We were on The Office together.

And we're best friends.

And now we're doing the Ultimate Office Rewatch podcast just for you.

Each week, we will break down an episode of The Office and give exclusive behind-the-scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you.

We're the office ladies.

Hello, Angela.

Hi.

Are you ready for us to have a baby today?

I mean, whether you're ready or not, it's happening.

It sure is.

That's kind of how it works.

Today is the delivery part two.

It is season six, episode 18, written by Charlie Grandi and directed by Harold Ramos.

Well, Jenna, I'd love a summary.

Here it is, Ange.

Cecilia Marie Halpert is born.

And this episode follows Jim and Pam's first couple of days as new parents.

Pam struggles to breastfeed, and Jim struggles to feel useful, but they are so happy and it's really cute.

Meanwhile, back at the office, Michael tries playing matchmaker by orchestrating a lunch date between Aaron and Kevin.

Dwight finds mold in Jim and Pam's kitchen and decides to take care of it.

And Dwight and Angela finalize their baby-making contract.

Yup.

Their procreation punch card.

Get it ready.

I love that you saved that.

I have it.

I put it in our book.

I know.

Fast fact number one, Pam and Jim's baby is named after my niece.

So cute.

So the same week that we were shooting this episode, my sister Emily gave birth to her first child, a daughter.

It was so crazy.

I mean, it's crazy because Pam is pregnant having a baby, but in real life, it was your sister having a baby.

Literally, the day we shot Pam going to the hospital was the day my sister came home from the hospital.

That's so crazy.

So in my family, my What were the text messages like?

I was going to say, my parents would joke that they had one kid doing it for real and one kid pretending all at the same time.

So my sister had told me ahead of time what they were planning to name their daughter.

So I went to the writers and I asked if we could name Pam and Jim's baby after my niece.

And they said yes.

But you didn't tell your sister that.

Oh, no.

I didn't tell my parents or my sister.

You didn't tell your parents either?

I didn't.

Oh, my gosh.

When did they find out?

When it aired.

Come on.

You kept it a secret that whole time?

I did.

That is so fun.

They must have flipped out.

Well, I remember sitting at home that night that the episode aired and I just kept watching the clock.

And sure enough, like 30 seconds after it went live, my phone started ringing, and it was my sister, and she was just screaming into the phone.

I can't believe how good you are at like just being patient for a surprise.

I am horrible at it.

I mean, so much so.

My daughter was just telling me because we were celebrating her birthday.

Right before she would open a gift, I'd be like, Now this one, she'd be like, Mom, mom, I'm about to open it.

No hints.

Well, I thought it would be fun to hear from my sister, Emily, what this was like.

Oh my gosh, that'd be great.

So she sent in an audio clip.

Here's my sister.

Aw,

so

I can remember back when we were watching the episode where Pam and Jim have their baby.

I remember thinking ahead of time, like, oh, I wonder what they're going to name the baby.

And I wanted to ask Jenna, but we had an agreement ever since the show started that she would never give me any spoilers because I wanted to find out when everybody else did what was going to happen on the show.

And so that was kind of like our,

I shouldn't say unspoken rule, but that was kind of the agreement that we had from, you know, the day that the show started was that I wasn't going to get any spoilers.

I wanted to find out what happened when everybody else found out.

So, you know, being a new mom and being sleep deprived, you know, at that time we were watching the office and I was like so excited in anticipation.

I'm like, oh, I wonder what it's going to be.

And then all of a sudden, Jim walks out and he was like, Cecilia Marie Halbert.

And I was like, aww.

Being a sleep-deprived new mom, it took me a second.

And I was like, oh, my god, oh my gosh, that's our daughter's name.

Oh, my gosh.

Did they name the baby after our Cecilia Marie?

And I like get so excited and like called my sister right away and I was like, wait a second.

And she just started laughing.

And she was like, yeah, is that okay that we did that?

And of course I was like, you know, crying.

And I was like oh my gosh that's so cool and so you know after that episode aired of course you know all the articles and everything that came out about how you know they'd named the CC on the show after my CC and

you know we saved all those articles we put them in my daughter's baby book and I still remember you know for quite some time after that people were like oh Do you watch that show, The Office?

Did you name your baby after Pam and Jim's baby?

And I always enjoyed setting people straight.

I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, I'm sorry.

See, Pam and Jim's baby was named after my baby.

So that was always really fun to do after the show aired.

That is so cute.

I love that she saved the articles and they're in the baby book.

Yeah.

Well, I have to say, so my niece, Cece, she is the age that Cece Halpert would be.

And whenever we go out together and I'm calling her Cece and people see us together, it like is a real like mind bender for them.

I'm just going to say you didn't think that one through.

I didn't think about that part.

Yeah.

That is so special, though.

I just love it.

You know, the baby photo that I had on my desk for the rest of the run of the show is a baby photo of my niece, Cece, when she was a baby.

That is so fun.

So it's like a really special thing in our family.

That's a family Easter egg.

It really is.

But here's another thing that's funny.

Cece's dad's name in real life is Dwight.

And her grandpa's name is Jim.

This is craziness.

So we've really created something there for that family.

So yeah.

Aww.

Well, Jenna Joya, who worked at NBC Digital, you guys know we've talked to Joya quite a bit as we re-watch the episode.

She shared with me that they made a Pam's baby blog website.

Oh, yes, I remember.

And she even sent me the birth announcement that they made for the blog.

And it showed that on March 4th, 2010, at 9.32 p.m., Pam Halpert made a post introducing Cecilia Marie Halpert, weighing in at seven pounds and two ounces.

Aw, yeah, isn't that cute?

And I'll put that in stories.

Well, I remember that they would have me write little things about how baby Cece was doing.

It was a way that when Pam was on maternity leave, there was still activity from that character, at least as far as the blog.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, the birth announcement was really cute.

All right, fast fact number two is a location breakdown.

Jim and Pam give birth at Moses Taylor Hospital, which is a real hospital in Scranton.

But of course, we did not shoot at the real Moses Taylor Hospital.

The exterior of the hospital we shot at was St.

Joseph Hospital in Burbank, California, but the interiors were built over on our warehouse set.

The entire hospital set, the waiting room, the hospital room, the hallways, all of it.

I mean, the detail.

Amazing.

Randy shared with me that they had torn down the Dunder Mifflin, New York offices because we don't need them anymore.

Right.

And in their place, they built the hospital.

So the other big storyline in this episode involves Dwight destroying Jim and Pam's kitchen.

Rather than go destroy someone's house, our set designer, Michael Gallenberg, took photos and measurements of the original location house that we had used for Jim and Pam's house, and then they meticulously recreated the floor plan also on our warehouse set.

They built basically two structures.

They built a hospital and a house.

Yes.

It was constructed by Tim James and decorated by Steve Rostein.

It's funny, Angela, like you said, they were right next to each other.

When Isabel, the character of Isabel, goes from the hospital to Jim and Pam's house, she really did not have to walk very far.

No, just around the corner.

We shot those on the same day, and it was very easy for her.

And when I was going back and forth with Randy about these locations, he told me a very fun tidbit.

Angela, do you remember that little kitchen outside of our writer's offices?

By the back stairwell?

Yeah.

Yeah.

There wasn't really really a kitchen.

It was like just a, it was almost just like a pantry kind of thing.

It was like a shelf with they'd put food on it.

It wasn't really a kitchen.

No.

They had an old refrigerator, but there was not any like sink or working plumbing or any appliances.

There was, I think, a toaster oven, maybe a microwave.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, kind of a sad kitchen.

It was sad.

Well, when this script came up, Randy said he saw these beats of Dwight demolishing the Halpert kitchen, and and his quote mental wheels started turning.

Oh, Randy.

He thought,

what if we bought enough cabinets for several takes of the Halpert kitchen, but then had enough left over to remodel and refurbish the writer's kitchen?

So he spoke to Michael Gallenberg and Steve Rostein, and when the episode wrapped over the subsequent weekend, they had a construction crew scheduled to like come strike the helper kitchen.

And that same crew brought that extra cabinet and flooring to the writers' kitchen and they completely remodeled it over one weekend.

So when the writers came to work the following Monday, they were greeted by quote a spotless, pristine, and sanitary kitchen with plenty of counter space to lay out their lunch choices.

He said the dishwasher that had been in the helpert kitchen was installed in the adjacent hallway where there was an existing sink and plumbing.

They added a garbage disposal.

So after six seasons, the writers had a clean space to keep food and the PAs had a garbage disposal and dishwasher to wash up.

Randy said he cleverly buried the costs in the episode's budget.

It was a win-win for everyone.

I remember this.

I remember this now that you're sharing it.

I remember how excited the writers were to have a real kitchen.

Yeah.

But I never knew how it came about or anything like that.

Randy always was looking out.

That is such a great story.

It is such a good example of how he was always trying to make every person's life on set a little better, however, he could.

All right, fast fact number three, Angela.

We had two pretty big guest stars on this show.

First up, Sarah Baker as nurse Josie.

She was born in D.C., raised in Springfield, Virginia.

She studied theater and English at James Madison University.

She went on to practice improv at Whole World Improv Theater as both a student and teacher.

She continued studying performing at the Groundlings after moving to Los Angeles.

And she has appeared in numerous films and television shows, such as The Campaign, starring Will Farrell, Goliath, Better Things, The Kaminsky Method, and Will and Grace.

And she was nominated for a Critics' Choice Award for her guest starring role on Louie.

She just crushed it.

She was amazing.

She was so good.

I mean, some of the looks that she gives to Jim and Pam

are so good her chemistry with john krasinski was amazing i know i mean i would just sit there in between them as they were giving their just gentle snarky sack it was so much fun and our second big guest star is lee kirk as our lactation consultant clark your husband my husband Exactly.

So we were engaged to be married when he played Clark, and he is going to come on the show today, and we're going to get to talk to him all about that experience.

He did so great.

I can't wait to talk to him.

I have a few questions for him.

I think our listeners know Lee as a person who makes amazing eggs and coffee.

They also know that he's a writer-director.

But what you might not know about him is that he did attend the Goodman School for Acting in Chicago.

So acting in this episode was not too big of a leap for him, even though ultimately now he is a writer-director.

And you know, Lee was supposed to come into the studio with us today.

We were so excited, but our daughter woke up not feeling great.

So she stayed home from school.

He's staying home with her.

And we're actually going to have to talk to my own husband, but over a Zoom.

But you know what?

He's going to be here and it's going to be super fun.

I'm just so excited that he's going to be on the show.

Yeah, it's going to be kind of cool.

All right.

Well, we're going to take a break.

And when we come back, we'll break down this first part of the episode.

and then later, we'll talk to Clark.

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While we're back, Jim went to get himself ice chips because he kind of got a little dizzy there for a minute.

I kind of passed out a moment.

He might have passed out, yeah.

Well, I don't know if you notice when he comes through those automatic doors

at 26 seconds, those are fakey doors.

Those were not automatic.

Just like our elevator, that's some movie magic for you.

Randy Cordray told me that they were operated by our grips who had to pull on cables in unison.

Each door was being pulled by a different person,

and they would get a cue on a walkie-talkie from our first AD who was watching the action live.

Well, they did great because you would never know.

Never know.

Well, Michael is going to arrive with, I think, all the balloons they had in the store that day.

I mean, there's so many and they're huge.

And Jenna, he's just going to barge right into the delivery room.

He's not going to knock, he's just going to go right in.

Well, I mean, it says family only.

So, oh, he walked right in.

Oh, perfect.

He's going to get a real eye full.

You can only hear what's going on in there.

The camera doesn't go in, just Michael.

Did you hear Jim say pull?

Yes, I did.

The nurses are saying push, and then Jim says pull.

We got a fan question from Crystal in Houston, Texas that said, Jenna, as a mom of three, I have to know what you were doing as Pam when you were pushing Cece out and Michael walked in.

My brain totally goes to stirrups and a hospital gown and, well, any of the other things that might happen in a delivery room.

Crystal, this is such a good question.

Jenna, what were you doing?

The door that Steve opens led to a room that was about the size of a small coat closet.

So you were just all wedged in there?

It was me, John, Sarah Baker, who plays the nurse, and Steve Sox, who was our stand-in.

He was doing the voice of the doctor.

And we were all sitting there, like shoulder to shoulder, knee to knee on folding chairs.

So you were yelling into the faces of other people.

Yes.

And I don't know why they built walls onto this room because it wasn't a real room, but they did.

Maybe for sound?

Oh, maybe so.

But we also shot this scene around 7.30 in the morning.

It was the very first scene of the day.

Well, that's a good way to wake up.

It's true.

Start yelling now.

Also, all of that dialogue that you hear was scripted.

We were not just improvising word for word in the script.

Greg shared on the commentary that, you know, the part where Michael walks in during Pam's labor.

That was a pitch from him.

He said that when his wife was having their first child, her college roommate walked into their hospital room right as his wife was going through the toughest part of her labor, and they were worried that it freaked her friend out.

Oh my gosh, that she didn't have kids for years.

That is crazy.

Well, Michael's reaction is that he has to go wash his eyes.

And Andy now arrives, and he's really disappointed.

He was going to give baby Halbert a framed newspaper of the day she was born.

It's really such a sweet gesture.

The headline was: Spring has sprung.

Yeah,

but that was if she was delivered yesterday.

She was a day later than he thought, so now he's going to have to swap it out for today's headline, which is all about the Scranton Strangler.

I mean, it's such a funny joke to me.

I just loved it.

Well, Jenna Randy shared with us that the images of these prop newspapers newspapers were crafted by Phil Shea, and Cece's date of birth, according to the newspapers, is Thursday, March 11th, which is curious since the episode originally aired on Thursday, March 4th.

And I will point out that the birth announcement made by NBC Digital also says March 4th.

Yes, here is what happened.

They were originally going to air the delivery part one on March 4th and then wait a week until March 11th to to air delivery part two.

But then later they decided to turn it into a one-hour special episode.

Retro.

Exactly.

But we'd already shot it and we'd already made all the props and they couldn't fix it.

And we got so much mail about it.

About the date?

Yes.

About like, wait a second.

It's March 4th.

Is she born next week?

How is this happening?

Well, maybe we all have to take a cue from this moment and don't buy a gift till after the baby's born.

Well, you know, one other thing about the Scranton Strangler, I believe this is the very first mention of the Scranton Strangler in the office lore.

I think it is as well.

On the commentary, they briefly mention that they're introducing this idea.

Well, we got a fan theory from Elizabeth in Toronto, Canada, who said,

Toby is the Scranton Strangler.

When the headline of the newspaper Andy brought in says Scranton Strangler strikes again, I think it points to Toby because he would have been upset that Pam was having Jim's baby and he took out his anger by strangling someone.

Also, Toby is not in the hospital waiting room, which he should have been if he really cared for Pam.

So many people think it's Toby.

And they think, here's the evidence.

That would be the episode I would come back for, Jenna.

Toby's trial.

Yes, Toby on trial and we're all being interviewed.

Yeah.

Yeah, the whole Dundra Mifflin like bullpen is being interviewed.

Well, listen, Toby is not in the hospital waiting room, but a lot of other people are, including Phyllis.

And she is getting a little annoyed because she's been waiting around for this baby.

She's got an ice cream cake in the car.

What I loved about this moment is that Michael was so annoyed with her for being impatient about Pam wants Pam having the baby.

He's like, what do you have to do today?

And she's like, I have an ice cream cake in my car.

And he goes, oh my God, Phyllis, go.

Go now.

I loved it.

Good news, the baby is here.

Michael's going to celebrate by smoking a cigar in the hospital.

The orderly who tells Michael, you can't smoke in here was played by Nicholas Day Clark.

I loved this moment.

Well, this is going to take us to a very sweet moment.

Pam and Jim, they're looking at their beautiful baby girl.

They're gazing at each other.

They're counting her fingers and her toes.

Angela, when you looked at Pam

post-birth in this moment, laying in the bed with Jim,

did that ring realistic to you?

I did not have children when I made this episode, and I just want to say I did not look like that after having my babies.

Oh my gosh.

I was a hot mess.

I have a photo of myself holding Isabel right after she was born, and I look like I fell out of a moving vehicle or something.

I look so wrecked.

And I'm smiling and you can tell I'm so happy, but my smile looks so weary.

You know, I'm just like,

well, I remember them like, oh, let's pull some of your hair out because, you know,

we had this whole conversation.

Let's give you a half up, half down do.

It was very centered on the hair.

What is Pam's hair after she's given birth?

And like, okay, there's been a moment.

She's settled in her room.

So maybe she took a second to brush it.

There was like all of this conversation about my hair.

Who's brushing their hair right after they give birth?

Nobody.

Well, here's the thing.

I have all these photos from right after my son was born.

He was my first.

And my hair is so insane looking.

And I remember talking to my friend, Christina Applegate, about these pictures.

And she was like, oh, honey, oh, honey, did no one tell you to bring a headband?

You bring a headband so that then all the little pictures pictures that you take after you've given birth, like you're not afraid to show people.

You put the little headband on and that takes care of it.

And I was like, okay, got it.

Headband.

So when my daughter was born, I was like, babe, don't forget the headband.

We got to bring the headband.

So now

in the pictures,

with my different teeth.

And it looks even more insane.

I look even crazy insane.

Oh, my God.

Also, I've never worn a headband.

I'm not a headband gal.

So I was like, then I was like, Christina, were you pranking me?

Like,

wear a fedora.

No one will ask anything.

Wear a hat.

It was so crazy.

But when I look back on this episode and I see this scene that is supposedly right after she's birthed this baby, the one thing I think of is just like, well, that is not what my hair looked like.

No, and we should celebrate what our hair looks like.

The messy craziness that it is.

That's right.

Jim is going to enter the waiting room.

He's so proud.

He's going to announce the birth of Cecilia Marie Halpert.

Before he can say she's seven pounds, Michael says she's 11 pounds.

Michael's doing the thing where he takes over a conference room meeting.

But Jim says mother and daughter are doing great, and everyone is so happy.

So happy.

And they go to run to hug Jim.

And Michael steps in the middle and they all hug Michael.

I wrote that down.

It's at three minutes and 15 seconds.

I went to the script to see if it said that, like, Kelly and Meredith hug Michael first.

It doesn't.

That was obviously just like a funny bit we found in the moment.

There's so many fun little catches in this scene.

Also, did you notice how Phyllis eats a cake?

Yes.

Why is her face covered with hijing?

I don't know.

She brought the cake real close to her face.

Yeah.

And did you notice who did not attend the birth?

Besides Toby,

Angela, Stanley, Creed, and of course Dwight are not there.

Oh, wow.

Yes.

Yeah.

Well, Pam's mom, of course, is there.

She walks in with coffee for Jim and Pam.

Pam is so happy to have coffee because she said she hasn't had caffeine in nine months.

And I would like to point out some real gem sass.

At three minutes, 30 seconds, he looks at camera like, yeah, I'm okay.

I have to say, if you go back and look at episodes when Pam is pregnant, you can see her drinking coffee.

Really?

Yes.

I've been noticing.

I have another background catch from this scene.

Did you see the book on Pam's bedside table?

No.

It is Joe Bennett's book, Take a Good Look.

Oh, she brought it to the hospital.

Okay, that's such a great catch.

Well, now Cece is going to need a diaper change.

Jim volunteers, and he's going to have a talking head where he explains that he's a diapering master.

He has been practicing.

He's been practicing on everything.

Yeah, footballs and a cat.

Yes, and a cat.

Angela, we got a lot of fan mail asking, how did we diaper a cat?

You were there.

Well, I was there, but I did no diapering of the cat.

Randy shared with us that we used the always reliable Bob Dunn's Animal Rentals, and Denise Sanders came through again.

Denise was so great.

She was always there when we were working with cats.

It required two prep days and a a few rehearsals.

What was it like for Denise to get an email from Randy?

Oh my gosh, I imagine their email exchanges.

Hi, Denise.

We're going to need to diaper a cat.

Hi, Denise.

Is it okay if Angela licks the face of a cat?

I mean, hi, Denise.

We're going to throw a cat into a ceiling.

Email me back.

Randy said we tried to get Milkman.

You remember?

Milkman was bandit.

Yep.

But Milkman was already booked.

He worked a lot.

Busy working actor.

I guess Randy said Milkman was in hot hot demand because he was very disciplined and a reliable working kitty.

I want to see Milkman's resume.

So we used a different cat as close to Milkman's coloring as possible to attempt to make the cheat.

Well, I'll say this.

I noticed that we don't see Jim actually diapering.

The cat.

The cat is pre-diapered, and we just pan up to Jim taking credit.

Yeah.

Well, Michael is finally going to get to hold the baby.

He comes in the room, congratulates Helene on being a grandma.

So awkward.

Oh, that whole exchange was so cringey.

And Michael does this thing, but I couldn't help but just see Steve in this moment when he was like, I want to hold the baby.

I thought the same thing.

Steve Corell loves a baby.

Yes, he's such a good dad and a family man.

And I was like, I bet Steve in real life was so delighted to hold that baby.

I love how Michael sanitizes his hands and then wipes his hands on his pants.

And Pam is like, again, no pants.

Yeah.

We got a fan question from KJ Davey in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Where did you get such a teeny tiny newborn baby to play the part of Cece?

KJ, I'm going to give you a baby breakdown.

There were two sets of twins that played baby Cece.

But if you can believe it, we actually held auditions for these babies.

For the babies?

Mm-hmm.

The babies had to come, slate their name,

tell us, do profile photos.

Exactly.

Randy arranged to have five sets of twins come to set one day.

And John and I went and we held all the babies.

They wanted to see which ones responded to us.

I guess it was like a chemistry check.

And in the end, we had Elijah and Spencer Wolf and Ella and Finnegan Sanders play baby Cece.

There are some rules about babies working

on film and television.

Yes.

you have to be 15 days old before you can work on a tv show or movie in california all of our babies were around six weeks old but they had been preemies so that is why they were still so tiny at that age babies can only be on set for two hours total so from the moment they park their car until they get back in their car can be two hours and they're only allowed to work for 20 minutes of that two hours right and they have their own trailer dressing room area where they can be with their parents when they're not working.

And they are assigned a nurse.

Yes, that accompanies them to the set.

Correct.

And this is why we needed two sets of twins because that way we had 80 minutes of on-camera baby time total.

We also used a fakey baby,

which we called Jelly Baby and Creepy Baby.

They are really creepy.

They are made from kind of a soft, pliable cast polymer.

You shared on the commentary that they were actually heavier than the real babies.

Yes.

And their heads were super floppy.

So you actually had to

hold their heads.

Just like a real baby.

Yeah.

But they were much heavier and jelly.

They were gelatinous.

Yeah.

I mean, it was weird.

It's the same people, I think, that made Faky Bandit.

Yeah.

And he was a jelly cat.

You also shared on the commentary that at 8 minutes, 52 seconds, when the nurse rolls Cece out of the room, you know, she's in her crib and she's going to roll her out.

That's the fake baby.

If you go back and watch, it's not even moving at all.

Yes, I believe we also used fakey baby in a good portion of the scene with Clark.

You might notice you don't really ever see a baby there, right?

Yeah.

Should we talk about what Dwight is doing now?

Oh my gosh.

He couldn't find the iPod, but guess what he found?

Mold.

And a lot of it.

Yeah.

He wants to solve this mold problem for them, but first he needs to do, I mean, obviously what anyone would do.

Right.

If you show up to tackle mold, you read a book, you take a bath in someone's bathtub, you sleep in their bed.

Without any

bottoms.

Yeah.

Commando.

Question for you.

Did the documentary crew stay overnight at Jim and Pam's?

I don't know.

How many cameramen do they have on this day?

What's their budget for this documentary?

They've got cameras back at the office.

They've got some over in the hospital.

They're following Dwight as well.

Yeah.

They are committed.

I wanted to point out that at five minutes, one second, that exterior shot of Dwight breaking into Jim and Pam's house.

I mean, he literally elbows the window and it breaks.

Right, because he doesn't want to know where the keys are.

La la la la la la la.

Don't know.

No.

Don't tell me.

He's going to get in.

First of all, that was breakaway glass.

But second of all, that was also built on our stages.

That exterior, they literally rebuilt the exterior of that real house to do just that little break-in bit.

It is lit so well.

I mean, our set builders had a very busy week.

Yeah.

There's going to be another thing that I'm going to talk about later where we fake outside and we actually shot it on the warehouse set.

And I just have to give a shout out to our lighting crew because they really made these places look like we were outside, but really, we were in a warehouse.

Well, listen, Dwight is well rested.

He's ready to get to work.

He's going to demo their kitchen to get rid of the mold.

Yeah.

So on the commentary, they shared that that side of the cabinet where he swings the sledgehammer.

Yeah.

They had scored it a little so that when he hit it, it would like break apart.

Okay.

It wouldn't break apart.

He swung that thing and hit it several times and nothing happened so it was actually really hard to get a shot of them really whacking into that thing that's so funny to me i mean he could crush an apple with his bare hands but they couldn't get that cabinet to break well it must have been a really sturdy cabinet

should we go back to dunder mifflin and see what everyone else is doing oh we definitely should michael is doing that thing

where he is taking responsibility for something he had nothing to do with.

Oh, Jim and Pam.

He's the matchmaker.

He is.

And he's going to start matching up everyone in the office.

That's right.

This scene had a series of talking heads.

First was Meredith.

You know, she said she's single, obviously.

She's never getting married.

And her talking head is like Clooney.

Meredith is our office's George Clooney.

Yeah.

Who knew?

Andy has one, of course, where he talks about Aaron.

He's hoping the stars will align for them.

And then, Jenna, would have come Creeds.

Remember this deleted runner I shared with you that he thought if Jim and Pam had their baby, that meant he was going to die?

Yes.

Okay.

Well, now Pam has had the baby and he's still alive.

Here's Creed's deleted talking head.

Pam and her baby.

And I'm still alive.

I have a new lease on life.

If death can't stop me from dating, then neither can my mother.

What?

Who is his mother?

And she's still alive?

And she doesn't want him to date?

I have so many questions.

Well, listen, bottom line, Michael is going to fill all of their empty holes with love.

With another body and love.

Yes.

And Angela, your look when he says that is so funny.

It's so good.

So Jim and Pam are reminiscing about when they were just a couple of kids, afraid to be parents, and here they are holding their baby.

Oh, it's so peaceful.

And they're just laying there together in a sweet little snuggle, staring into her cute little sleeping face.

Yeah.

And the nurse is like, would you like us to take her?

Yeah.

And Jim and Pam say, no.

No, no, no.

She can just stay here with us.

Yeah.

And this, of course, cuts to Cecilia crying.

They're struggling to breastfeed, to swaddle.

The wheels are coming off the bus.

I have a very funny story about that swaddling moment.

So we were supposed to not swaddle the baby.

That's the joke: Jim and Pam.

Don't know how.

Yes.

They need the nurse.

We're overwhelmed.

Right.

Lady, every time we just swaddled that baby perfectly.

The two of you?

The two of us.

It was insane.

We were trying to be bad at swaddling.

Neither one of us had kids.

And somehow we were like masterful swaddlers.

And Harold Ramis and our AD, they kept saying, guys, stop swaddling the baby.

The joke is you can't do it.

But we just, I don't know, we were really, really good at swaddling.

They were like, you have to stop.

You have to stop swaddling that baby.

Well, there was a deleted scene after this.

I think they were trying to build out the story that the two of you were getting really frustrated and started to get a little short with one another.

Oh, I remember.

Oh, I felt like we had to hear it.

Pam cusses out Jim.

And I think she flips him in the bird at the end.

Oh, yeah, she shoots him.

I remember.

Delivery wasn't so bad, right?

F ⁇ you.

Wow.

Wow.

No, I just mean a wonderful ending.

Kind of rough getting here.

We did not handle that well.

I think you have to admit you flipped down a little bit.

I think you should stop talking now.

Okay.

Uh-oh.

Someone's still a little sore.

You sitting on your donut, huh?

Okay, so I remember shooting that.

And we had a lot of fun with that.

It looked like it.

We had a lot of conversations with the people on set who had kids, and they all verified this is a very authentic moment post-birth.

It did not end up making it in, but it was pretty fun.

It didn't.

You know, in the show notes, it said that it just made Jim seem too mean.

Yes, even though these moments do happen between couples.

They do, but I feel like they left enough in of them being frustrated about like breastfeeding.

And I think it works.

It works.

We got a fan question from Hildi N in Norway who was curious about the breastfeeding shawl or whatever it is you call it that Pam is using in this scene.

She says, is that to avoid displays of nudity on the show?

Or is this normal in a U.S.

hospital?

Do women in U.S.

hospitals use these shawls when they are breastfeeding?

I would say no.

Not in their room, not in the privacy of their room, but maybe if you were out in a hallway hallway or something, you might have a little blanket or something.

I had one of these shawls.

They're actually really great.

I made note of it when I got to use it on the show.

And when I had my kids in real life, I was like, I want that one that Pam used because it has this like wire that holds it open so the mom can peek in.

It was actually really helpful.

And I would use one of those.

for the times that if I had to breastfeed at a restaurant or at the airport or wherever, maybe if I was in a very public place.

Yeah.

Although I would like to say there's nothing wrong with just whipping it out, ladies.

Your baby's got to eat.

Your baby's got to eat.

I was such a fan of this one shopping mall after Isabel was little that I would go, it was like an outdoor mall and I would have her in her stroller and we could walk around.

And for me, it was just being able to get out of the house and get outside a little bit.

But I loved it because they had nursing stations.

I know what you're talking about.

They had a little room

with a rocking chair in it.

Yes.

And you could go in.

And so whenever I see a nursing station anywhere, I always smile because I'm like, that is so thoughtful.

Now they have them in airports.

They did not have them in airports when I had my kids.

Yeah, not when we had kids.

But I guess in answer to Hildi's question, we were using that on the show just.

for the purposes of we couldn't have nudity on television and also

that was a faky baby under there.

We needed to limit what you saw of the babies in addition to the boobies.

Also, it was faky nipple.

You were wearing that rigged bra with the special pacifier thingy.

Oh my God, I forgot about that, Angela.

Yes.

Jenna, on the DVD commentary, you talked about this elaborate breastfeeding bra rig that they had to build and you wore so it would look like Pam was actually breastfeeding.

I remember that now.

The baby had to want to have their face by my boob, but obviously not near your boob.

So what do you do?

You describe it in the commentary.

I thought we should hear it.

Now, there was like a rig, right, with a pacifier.

Oh, it was so complicated.

Yes, because you wanted the baby to cry, but then it had to stop crying so you could record our dialogue.

So they built me a bra

that had extra padding, so it looked like I was breastfeeding or my breasts were full of milk.

But then it also had like a breakaway

shield that revealed revealed a sterile nipple

pacifier thing and then the baby would actually suck on this pacifier and stop crying how about that you go to work one day you get an email can you build a bra with a pacifier in it

yeah that you wore over your clothes here's a thing they could change out the pacifier they were constantly changing it out with a new sterile pacifier as well so that we'd get nipple change nipple change Who knew?

Well, in all of this struggle, Jim is going to buzz the nurse.

Oh, but I mean, because maybe, did he buzz the nurse?

Maybe Pam sat on it, but here she is to help us.

Well, the nurse is going to offer to take baby Cece to the nursery and they can try again later.

Yeah.

And she said, you know what?

If she gets hungry, we'll give her a bottle.

And Pam's like, no, no, no.

I've heard about this.

This is like nipple confusion.

Then she'll just want the bottle and then she won't want to breastfeed.

And when Pam says this to the nurse, she gets some real nurse sass.

The nurse is like, oh good, you know everything.

Lady, the line, oh good, you know everything,

is our fan mill flurry.

Really?

Yes.

That's what set everyone off race.

Really?

Really bumped people.

For example, Alyssa M from Utah said, I'm a postpartum nurse and I love this episode, but I always cringe at how the nurse treats Jim and Pam.

Corey from Rochester, New York said, nipple confusion is real.

You are the expert because you're the mother.

Intuition is real.

And finally, from Katie G in Greenville, South Carolina, all right, ladies, I have a small soapbox to get on here.

First, I want to really applaud everyone on the show for depicting some much more realistic pregnancy birth breastfeeding scenes.

I love that Pam is scared and showing how how long labor can be and especially how difficult it can be to get the hang of breastfeeding.

But as for the soapbox, that nurse.

Uh-oh.

Every time I watch this episode, I end up fuming at that nurse for giving Pam sass about, oh good, you know everything.

News, alert, nipple confusion is real, and the mother gets to make the choice as to whether she wants her child to have a bottle, pacifier, anything.

And that nurse, whom in a deleted scene we learn has never had children herself, has no right to give Pam attitude about her decision.

Katie, go off.

The mama bear in me really wants to storm into that room, push that nurse out, and assure Pam that she's doing a wonderful job.

Gah, that nurse.

She goes on to say, ladies, stand up for yourselves.

Don't be bullied, and know that you're doing an amazing job regardless.

Hang in there, mamas.

Thank you for letting me get that off my chest.

Since my second child is due in mid-October, I'm absolutely keyed up about this issue right now.

Katie, we hear you.

Katie, I love you.

Yeah.

Oh, there is actually one more from Kim E in Ohio.

Not so much a question as a thank you.

I struggled and gave up trying to breastfeed my son and then didn't even attempt with my daughter two years later.

I don't know if the office was the first to do it, but it was the first time I saw a new mother on a television show having trouble breastfeeding.

It made me emotional when watching this, even though it was five years since my son was born that this episode originally aired.

Thank your writers for realizing that it isn't always so easy.

Thank you, Jenna, for taking your character there.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Well, I am really touched by all of those letters.

Thank you.

Thank you, ladies, for sharing.

I didn't even know how accurate Pam's journey was when I shot it, but in this rewatch, I was just as grateful

for our depiction of this struggle.

Right.

I mean, I remember with Isabel saying to her, it was just me and her in the room.

It was just quiet.

I was trying to get her to latch.

And I remember I was so tired.

And I just looked at her sweet little face and I said, baby girl, I don't know how to do this.

And I know you don't know how to do it, but we're going to to figure it out.

I promise you.

And then I like started to cry.

It's like happy tears, like, but also frustrated tears.

I didn't get the hang of breastfeeding either of my children until after I got home from the hospital.

I did not leave the hospital.

Like Pam, I did not leave the hospital.

Lady, I got only one

flowing.

I only got one boob figured out.

You know, my left boob got it.

My right boob never got it.

Eventually we got there with the right boob.

I wanted to point out something else in this scene.

At eight minutes and 54 seconds, I don't know if you noticed, but I am still wearing a fakey belly.

I think you can really see it when I'm sitting in the bed in these scenes.

Yeah, I did notice that.

I thought that was a great touch.

Lady, that was really important to me.

I pitched that.

Now, I know I've shared that I hadn't had a baby, but you had had a baby.

And I remember being in the hospital with you after you gave birth.

And I was like, like, well, wait, her whole stomach didn't go down.

No.

And no one told me that.

And I have three older sisters.

And I guess I was just so naive.

I packed my little hospital bag, you know, and the outfit I picked to go home in were my skinny jeans and just a cute little top.

I remember.

And I could not get those jeans on or button the top.

I don't know what I was thinking.

I literally had no clothes to leave the hospital in, no clean clothes.

And you said, Ange, I'll go to your house.

I'll drive to your house and I'll get you a pair of sweatpants.

Yep.

And then, Jenna, you brought the sweatpants back and they also did not fit.

My sweatpants didn't fit.

So my friend Erin was there and she said, I'll run to the mall.

There was a shopping mall like right across the way.

She was like, I'll go to the mall.

I was like, just get me, I guess, like

a bigger pair of sweatpants.

The only thing, she went pretty early in the morning.

I was about to be discharged.

I had no clothes.

She got me a pair of sweatpants and some flip-flops and a shirt.

And when she gave me the bag, you guys, she had gone to Abercrombie.

And this is like clothing for teenagers.

It had like a big printing across like the butt and the leg, right?

It said like Abercrombie and I think it had number 41 on the butt.

It was so embarrassing.

That's what I left the hospital in.

Flip-flops and these sweatpants that said 41.

It was so crazy.

I looked ridiculous.

Well, I'll never forget being in your hospital room and the two of us just like marveling at the fact that you still had like a pregnancy belly after you gave birth to her.

We were like, what is this?

What the heck?

I can't wear my jeans home.

So I told everyone that story when we were planning this episode.

And I said to our costume designer, Alicia, I have to still be in my belly.

You know, give me like a five-month pregnant belly.

Yeah, it has to be realistic.

I always think, Jenna, maybe because I left a hospital in sweatpants that said 41 and a random top and flip-flops about how the royal family does that picture after they give birth and they're in a dress with their hair blown out and they stand on the steps holding their baby.

Whenever I see that, I think my photo would have been in sweatpants that said 41 and flip-flops.

Oh my gosh.

We should get back to the episode because I have a really fun tidbit tidbit about this Michael, Aaron, and Kevin scene.

Oh, I do too.

Oh, go first.

Well, this storyline of Aaron and Kevin having a possible romance was a pitch from none other than Brian Baumgartner.

Really?

Yes.

So he talked about it on his podcast, Office Deep Dive, while he was interviewing Ellie Kemper.

I reached out to him to confirm, and he said, yes, that he can't remember exactly when he went to pitch, but he did go to the writers and say,

I think that their energy is so different that they might actually make a funny couple.

He thought that kind of the slow-moving Kevin versus what he called the hummingbird that was Aaron could be really fun.

He said the writers said, oh, it's an interesting idea, but then he never heard anything else about it until this episode when Michael has the idea.

That is so great.

Well, here's my tidbit.

On the commentary, the writers talked about how Kevin has a joke in this episode that was their absolute favorite.

They were so giddy about it.

Here's what it says in the script after Michael says, You know what?

I'm about to change your life.

We hear loud, wet, stifled breathing from behind the door.

Oh, wow.

Aaron says, What is that sound?

Michael nods at Kevin.

And then the door opens, and Kevin says, Da-ta!

This word, da-ta,

made the writers laugh so hard.

They thought it was brilliant that Kevin, instead of saying, ta-da,

says, da-ta.

They said at the table read, when it came to this part, Brian's mind auto-corrected and he read it, ta-da.

Oh, no.

And they were like, no, it's da-da.

And they were so delighted.

It made it into the episode.

One of my favorite lines from this scene is something something that Michael says because Kevin gets really overeager to start his date like immediately.

Yeah.

And Michael says, you have to let the cookies cool before you pop them in your mouth.

I don't know.

I thought that was a really funny line.

It is funny.

And you also know that's from life experience.

Back at the hospital, they are short on rooms.

They need to bring another couple in for the spare bed that is in Jim and Pam's room.

It's Dale and Kathy.

And Kathy is just very easily breastfeeding.

Jim and Pam are in awe.

And she has cute hair.

I know.

Real cute.

I mean, they're winning over there.

They are.

Guest star alert, Dale was played by Evan Gustad, who you may have seen on Arrested Development or Curb Your Enthusiasm or The Good Place.

And Kathy...

was played by Melissa Roche, who would go on to star in the Big Bang Theory.

Humongous star.

Yeah.

But I think this was one of her very first television jobs.

How crazy is that?

I remember she was so fun.

Dale and Kathy's baby Caitlin was played by Dylan and Rylan Thompson.

Another set of twins.

A lot is happening back at Jim and Pam's house.

Yeah.

Dwight and his wrecking crew are just completely demoing their kitchen.

Okay, you bring up the wrecking crew.

I

spot Rolf.

Oh, yeah.

James James Urbaniac.

Yeah, he's there.

And a woman.

I find it surprising that there isn't more there.

Angela, what can you tell us?

Oh, I have some stuff for you.

So there's nothing on the DVDs about this.

There's no deleted scene, but I checked the shooting draft and there is a hilarious explanation of why Rolf and Annie, that's the character's name, is there.

Yes, Annie, who was played by Amy Reichelman.

Here's what the script said.

Interior Halpert Foyer.

Morning.

Dwight opens the door and finds Rolf.

Behind him is the new kitchen cabinetry and Annie, a tall, quiet woman.

Dwight says, You're late, Rolf.

Rolf looks at Annie and says, I met a woman.

Dwight says, okay, but she's not using my tools.

Rolf says, she has her own.

Dwight's jaw drops.

Rolf nods, oh yeah.

And then Dwight has a talking head, where he says, Rolf dates so far out of his league, it's not even funny.

He is the single greatest ladies' man I have ever known.

And I knew Amos Obshide.

Mmm, good old Amos, I know.

Rolf met a woman, and she brought her own tools.

Wow.

Mm-hmm.

Well, that explains why they're there.

There you go.

That's Dwight's wrecking crew.

Guess what it's time for?

What?

Clark, the lactation consultant.

He's going to arrive.

He's going to offer his services to Jim and Pam.

I mean, got milk?

Got milk?

That's such a great line.

It was so good.

We are going to go to break.

And then when we come back, Lee is going to join us to talk all about these scenes.

But before we go to break, Angela, I just want to share.

that I remember that you are the person who pitched the idea of a lactation nurse.

The character of a lactation nurse was not in our table read draft.

Nope.

But the storyline of Pam having difficulty breastfeeding was in the draft.

Yeah.

So you told our writers after the reading about this lactation nurse that came in and just was real handsy

with your boobs.

Yeah.

I shared with everyone.

I was like, you know, I could relate to Pam struggling to get her baby to latch.

And I said, well, I had a lactation consultant.

And I explained that this person really manhandled my boobs.

They really got in there.

And it was a little bit awkward.

Well, this prompted other people to share their stories, and the writers really liked this idea of a lactation consultant.

Yes, now mine was a woman, but they, of course, decided to put this very funny spin to make it a man.

And Greg said on the commentary that they did research to see if there were male lactation nurses, and there are, and that's how we got Clark.

Well, we're going to take a break.

When we come back, we will have Clark.

Got milk.

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Hello, Lee.

Hi, an office lady.

Woohoo!

Hello, office ladies.

This is very exciting.

Lee, you are sitting in my podcast closet.

You know, I moved the plant in there for you to make it more pleasant.

Oh, thank you.

I did notice that behind me.

I appreciate that.

Yeah, I'm in the podcast closet today.

I wish I could be there with you guys, but this is the second best we could do.

I know.

Well, we're so glad to have you.

And now, Jenna, you get to see what you look like when you zoom in.

Yes.

How's our little gal?

She's good.

She's good.

We just went for a walk.

We took Maggie for a walk.

And now she is watching some TV and drinking lots of water.

Oh, good.

Good.

Thanks for taking care of her.

Can I say something before we begin?

Yes.

Yeah.

I just wanted to say congratulations on this because, you know, I've been there since the beginning, obviously.

I've seen the seeds of this podcast and

I've watched you guys grow it and I see how hard you work at it.

I mean, the listeners should know these ladies put so much heart and love into this podcast and so much effort.

I mean, there's research and there's...

outlines and there's

so much watching of episodes and Jenna walks around the house with her headphones on listening to episodes because she's going to edit the episode.

It's really impressive.

Anyway, congratulations.

This is a phenomenal thing you guys have created.

And you deserve all the, all the, all the accolades.

Lee, thank you.

Thank you so much, Lee.

It means a lot.

I feel like you and Josh, whenever you get together, I always like, it makes me happy because I see you both being like, I know, with the headphones walking around the house.

It's true.

It's like, it's like, you know, like how you have a sibling and you both know what it's like to have the the same parent.

It's kind of Josh and I are like, we have that thing with you guys.

We're like, we know what it's like to have the wives doing the podcast and the book, by the way.

Yeah.

So Isabel thought Jenna was over the other day.

She was like, mom, is Jenna here?

I was like, oh no, I'm just listening to our podcast and editing in the bathroom.

She thought you would come over to look at outfits with me.

Well, Lee, thank you so much.

That was so sweet of you to say.

I didn't know he was going to say that.

I know.

Very nice.

Well, I guess we should start where we usually start.

We always ask our guests, how did you get your job on the office?

But maybe I should kick this one off because.

Did he know someone?

Was there like a connection with someone on the cast or crew?

Well, when the writers came up with this storyline of the lactation consultant, Paul Lieberstein approached me, got me aside, and said, hey, Jenna, Jenna, we have this really funny idea, but it involves

man kind of like squishing your breasts around.

How do you feel about that?

Like that would be a guest actor.

Are you okay with it?

And I said, Well, I think it would be maybe a little awkward now that you mention it.

And he said, Well, what if that person was your fiancé, Lee?

What if Lee did it?

And so then I came home and I told you that.

And I guess you can take it from here.

Yeah, you came home, you told me, I thought it sounded pretty funny.

And

I said, sure.

Right.

So, of course, I, they weren't just handing me the job.

I had to go into Allison Jones and

read for the role or sort of prove that I could do it.

Which.

I got to say, if there was ever a layup in the audition world, I mean,

this was like a six foot hoop that was like, just please drop the ball in the basket and make everyone's life easier, you know?

So, you know, obviously there was no one else reading for it.

So I went in,

I read for the role.

It seemed to go fine.

I had a good time and I got the part.

Well, Lee, on the commentary, they said that you crushed the audition.

They said they loved how just like business you were, like as Clark.

Like, you know, you just came in, do your thing.

And when they were re-watching the scene, they said they loved how you would pump the hand sanitizer as you left or as you came up each time.

It just cracked them up.

That hand sanitizer was like my go-to little, you know, that was like my security blanket in the scene.

Like if I didn't know what to do, I just go pump some more hand sanitizer.

It was great.

I love that detail.

Well, I have a follow-up question.

You know, you'd been to set before.

You had visited me many times.

You knew everybody.

You had hung out with us.

What was it like coming on the show this time as an actor instead of a visitor?

Well, let's see.

That's a good question.

I had been up a few times to eat lunch, I remember.

And

we would always just kind of eat lunch and then hang out in your trailer.

And then you'd go to work and I would leave, as usually how it was, Jenna.

And so this time I had my own trailer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They gave me a trailer.

Were you like, come to my trailer, babe?

It was a tiny thing.

I looked in there for, I just kind of opened the door.

I saw Clark on the, you know, on the outside.

I opened up, looked in.

It was the smallest thing.

I was like, I'm going to go to Jenna's trailer.

I think, and hang out.

So, I never used the trailer, it was a waste of money for NBC.

Sorry about that.

But,

but no,

I remember

coming up.

I felt a little nervous, you know, obviously.

But one thing that I remember was that I had I had been to set a number of times, but I'd never seen the camera rolling.

You know, I would, we'd hang out and then I'd leave when you'd go back to work.

So, so this time I got to see, you know, Jenna, you, and John

as Jim and Pam.

And I was super impressed.

I mean, you guys just made it look so easy.

It was so seamless.

That was a real exciting moment for me.

And all I thought was, I hope I can, you know, hold my own in this scene with these two.

Well, you totally did.

And you are an amazing actor and writer.

I thought the whole scene was like watching these three like comedy geniuses.

I loved every second of it.

Oh, thank you.

Thank you.

I have a question for you, little actory kind of of question.

Jenna loves these kind of questions.

Lee, did you do anything to prepare for the role of Clark?

What was your process, Lee?

What was my process?

Yes.

I don't think I did very much.

I mean, I sort of looked up what a lactation consultant was, you know, and.

Right, because

you guys didn't have kids yet.

No, we did not have kids.

And I really remember telling Jenna quite a lot about my lactation consultant.

Well, it's funny because it's funny you say that because

we did not have kids then so i never experienced a lactation consultant or the saga of breastfeeding um up till then you know so so i remember i looking back i think i probably had i known how difficult breastfeeding can be and had i met some lactation consultants i probably would have played clark a little differently because you know once we had kids and and you know jenna was breastfeeding both of them and we were learning how it is and it can be very stressful and difficult and then you you meet these lactation consultants that come in and they're just filled with empathy and they're just you know they know that the the the mom is stressed out and they just have this this you know they're oozing empathy and i probably would have played clark with a little more of that you know if i had i known i probably would have given him a little bit more of you know

got milk you know

that changes that line read

it does but um but no i just decided to play him very straight you know i knew the joke the joke was

here's a male lactation consultant, and the humor is going to come from Jim's reaction to that.

And so I just kind of, I just tried to lay the pipe there and let John do all the heavy lifting.

They did say on the DVD commentary, there were props that were like lactation consultant pamphlets, like actual pamphlets, real ones.

And they said you were reading them.

Yeah, I did.

I did pick up some and read them and like, oh, okay, look at this.

There's the C.

There's the C on the breast there, the guy making the C.

So okay.

Yeah, um, I remember that because you and John were friends, that John was really trying to make you laugh a lot.

Like he was, he was like coming for you.

Yeah, he was laying it on pretty good.

And it was really, it was hard.

It was hard to to not break.

If I looked over at him, because he was, he'd hold that pamphlet up and just his eyes

would peek over it.

He wasn't looking at me yeah

and it was hard not to break but we did i think we did break a few times didn't we jenna we did yeah it was it was difficult because he was definitely he was milking it oh lord there it is yeah

boom lee i'm curious what do you remember most about your day of shooting on the office do you have a favorite memory I mean, Harold Ramos.

Okay.

Well, actually, I don't know if you guys have mentioned this, but we shot this scene on Groundhog Day.

Do you remember that?

We have not mentioned it.

Yes.

It was incredible.

The director of Groundhog Day, the movie, Harold Ramos, was directing us on Groundhog Day.

I remember that starting in the morning, we were all just like, when can we go up to Harold Ramay?

When can we say like happy Groundhog Day?

Well, I remember when you went up to him, we all had sort of, I think everyone was thinking it.

And finally, you said said it.

And when he started to talk about Groundhog Day, everyone just kind of came over.

We all just moved over and just sat there and listened to him talk about it.

It was really, really fun, really exciting.

He was amazing like that.

There was a day we all talked to him about Ghostbusters,

but he was just so, so cool.

I was bummed because I wasn't working that day.

And I remember Jenna calling me and saying, And I worked with Harold Ramos on Groundhog Day.

Like you geeked out about it.

Well, speaking of Ghostbusters, I remember that day too, because that's when he told us that every Halloween he dressed up in his Ghostbusters costume to hand out candy.

He said kids would ring the front doorbell and he would be in full Ghostbuster suit.

And he gave out full candy bars.

Yeah.

How cool is that?

I know.

That's the coolest house on the block right there.

All right.

I have to ask you about a moment, you guys.

There's the scene where Clark tells Pam to flick her nipple.

We got a lot, a lot of mail about the flick your nipple moment.

Breonna Kay from Texas wrote in and said, four years ago, I gave birth to my first daughter.

When the lactation consultant came in to check on our breastfeeding progress, she asked if I knew how to stimulate the nipple.

I said, absolutely.

And I started to flick my nipple.

She was appalled and asked, where did you learn that?

And I very seriously told her I learned it from an episode of The Office.

She thought it was so funny.

She even brought in another nurse and had me repeat the flicking, which they both found hysterical.

Then they instructed me to roll the nipple instead of flicking it.

This is a true story.

Wow.

I love that.

Is that great?

Oh, no.

Well, I remember when we were doing that scenely, none of that stuff at a certain point was scripted.

The writers on set were just throwing out phrases for you to say or for me to say to get reactions out of John.

Yeah.

No, we went through a few to we went through like tap the nipple, you know,

hit the nipple, but I think flick was the one that really did it, you know, and I can't remember, remember if I was actually flicking, you know,

the nipple, but I don't remember, Lee.

I'm so sorry if I was.

I apologize if I was.

I was caught up in the moment.

You know, you were really, though, handsy there.

Like, you were really manhandling my breasts in the scene because they wanted to see all that.

Like, I was going to ask you guys that because I was like, you know, a lot of times as actors, we just cheat it, right?

We cheat everything.

We will cheat a kiss or an embrace just for boundaries and whatnot.

But I was like, it really looks like there's some boob play happening here.

There was.

Yeah.

I mean, that's why I got the job.

So, you know.

So might as well go for the reality.

Well, it was perfect because it really sold the moment and Jim's reaction was so great.

There is a deleted scene where Jim shares about Pam's feelings for Clark.

It's a talking head.

He's standing outside of your hospital room, but you know, there's a window in the door.

And you can see Clark and Pam over Jim's shoulder, and you have to hear it.

Like most couples, Pam and I have that one person that we're allowed to hook up with if the opportunity ever arises.

Mine is Cameron Diaz.

And hers, coincidentally enough, was Clark from the hospital.

How does it feel when I do that?

That feels good.

Well, that's my cue.

Amazing.

I don't even remember that.

I have to look at that deleted scene.

I don't remember doing that.

Well, you guys are behind the door, you know, but he can hear you and see you.

I see.

And then he dives back in the room when Clark's like, How does that feel?

And Pam goes, Feels good.

He's like, Matt, that's I'm it.

I'm going back in.

That's so good.

One of my favorite parts of the episode is when Cece falls off her latch right after Clark leaves, and Jim is like, Let me try.

Let me try.

And she's like, No, babe, I just think that would be weird.

Get Clark.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh.

It was just so much fun being with you on set, Lee.

It was like you used to always visit me, and it was just a social visit.

But

having you on the episode, it was an opportunity to share with you from the inside this thing I had been doing for six years.

It was really cool.

And of course, you're going to come back later and direct an episode in season nine.

We'll have to have you in the studio for that.

Yes.

Yes.

Hopefully, no children will be sick that day and I'll be able to join you ladies.

I know.

I know.

But

it was really special having you there.

I cherish this memory.

Yeah, me too.

It was really fun.

And, you know, and I knew everybody and everyone was so, you know, welcoming and made it so easy for me.

I, you know, that that, which was helpful because I'm sure I was a little nervous walking in, you know, did want to screw things up.

And it was so fun.

It was, it was a great time.

I was glad I got to do it.

Well, Azure friendly, it was so fun for me to rewatch this and to see you and Jenna.

You guys have great chemistry and you've worked together on other projects.

Giant Mechanical Man is an amazing movie that Lee wrote and directed, and Jenna's in it, and you should all go watch it.

There's my plug.

Thank you.

That's How We Fell in Love.

It's one of my favorite movies.

Thank you.

But is there anything you're working on right now that you can share with us?

Oh, thanks, Angie.

Yeah, actually,

I have a horror film that I wrote that we're going to shoot in the fall, I believe, that I'm actually going to act in a little bit too.

Woo!

Sam right now is doing fist pump.

Nice.

Nice.

And then the other fun thing is, I know you had Billy Joe on,

but Billy Joe Armstrong and I are working on a project together as well, which is really fun.

Which will be your second project with Billie Joe Armstrong.

You know, after that episode aired, people were like, how do you know Billy Joe Armstrong?

And I mean, the truth is that Lee is good friends with Billie Joe Armstrong because Lee wrote and directed a film starring Billie Joe called Ordinary World.

And I have just sort of glommed on to that friendship, is what it is.

And here's another office connection: Brian Baumgartner is in that movie.

Yes.

Yes, he is.

Brian has an amazing speech in that movie about Scotch.

It's one of my favorite parts of the film.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, Lee, we can't wait to check all of that out, and we can't wait to have you back on.

Thanks, ladies.

This was.

I love you, babe.

I'll see you in like an hour and a half when I get home.

Okay.

See you in a bit.

Have fun.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Well, where should we go next, Angela?

I would say to accounting.

Mm-hmm.

Because Angela's on the phone.

She's got a lot of eyeshadow on again today.

She's zhujin it up and color.

Mm-hmm.

She wants to know if Dwight has revised their contract.

And he has.

He has crossed the T's and dotted the I's and the umlots, and it's time to go.

They're going to meet up later.

They're going to meet at exactly midlate afternoon.

I love Angela and Dwight scenes.

They're so weird.

One thing I think we should mention is that that lunch date with Aaron and Kevin, it did not go great.

They were not hitting it off.

No.

Andy was spying on them through a plant.

Yeah.

Aaron is going to have to approach Kevin's desk and try and let him down easy.

This scene is so awkward.

Of course, it's awkward.

Michael's a part of it.

Aaron just keeps using the word friend.

Andy is eavesdropping behind another plant.

And Kevin is not getting it.

So Michael is going to step in and he's going to explain that it's not going to happen, Kevin.

I'm so sorry.

And then we're going to go back to the hospital.

It's nighttime.

Jim and Pam are snuggled in her bed.

The baby starts crying.

Yeah.

Jim, sort of half awake, grabs the baby.

It latches.

It does.

They're doing it.

They're really parents now.

So sweet.

Isabel is going to arrive, and she would like to hold the baby, but Pam just wants to burp it first.

And that's when she realizes.

Wrong baby.

Wrong baby.

The wrong baby.

Her baby is laying next to her in its crib.

Whose baby?

Oh, Lord.

It's Kathy's baby.

Kathy's baby and she's just breastfed it.

Lady, we could not get through wrong baby.

Were you guys so tickled?

This line, wrong baby, just made us break so much.

Charlie Grandi, the writer of this episode, shared that it was Gene Stopnitsky that pitched Pam should breastfeed the wrong baby.

He had originally had the idea that somehow Michael would be the cause of mixing up the babies, but ultimately they couldn't figure out a way to get Michael back into the hospital room.

But they still loved the idea of wrong baby.

So this is how they pulled it off.

I bought it.

I bought like you're sort of tired.

You wheel the little roly crib over to your bed.

You're not really paying attention.

Mm-hmm.

I also loved in this scene when they realize it's the wrong baby and they quickly put the baby back in its crib and the way that John sort of just pushed it.

I know.

John as Jim sort of pushed it and then like cradled into you.

That was was making us laugh too.

We loved the

very cartoonish image of this baby rolling back to its real parent.

The next morning, Josie, the nurse, is going to ask Pam and Jim if they're excited to go home.

And they're like, we have half an hour here more.

And she's like, well, 25 minutes.

Oh, it's a SAS trade.

My favorite one.

is when she asks Jim if he has the car seat and he says, yes, it's right over there.

And she says the bottom part is supposed to be in the car and he says I have a news flash for you the whole thing goes in the car yeah

there was an alt joke for this scene the writer said in the commentary that they had written a scene where Kevin installs the car seat for Jim and he puts it in the driver's seat oh my gosh I remember that

that is funny

Well, they do leave the hospital.

I would like to point out something.

Pam is leaving in her own coat, her gray coat, and not Creed's plaid coat that she went to the hospital in.

Nice catch.

You're welcome.

Pam is being wheeled out of the hospital by an orderly who kind of shames Jim for not pulling the car around.

Yeah.

It's like most dads pull the car around.

Yeah, way to go.

Guest Star Alert, the orderly that helps Pam out of her wheelchair is Keisha Giles.

Pam gets out of the wheelchair.

She goes to sit on a nearby bench, and Cece sort of immediately starts crying.

And Pam is alone on this bench with her baby who is crying.

She has all of this anxiety.

Right, the baby isn't latching.

The baby's crying.

Well, in the end, as Jim is kind of coming back, the baby latches and they have this really beautiful moment on the bench together.

And you say this line as Pam, but I could only just hear it as you because I've heard you say stuff like this before.

You went, we did it.

And it was so cute.

I just love that.

I know there's been many times you and I have tackled something really tough, and you've turned to me and you've said, We did it.

And I just heard my friend in that moment.

You know, I was looking at the shooting draft, and when we got to the scene, I realized there was a much bigger version of the scene, and it's crazy.

Oh, yeah.

This scene on the bench, I have a whole whole story about it.

This was actually a reshoot.

Well, that makes sense because the scene in the shooting draft, it really threw me for a loop.

I have it.

Do you want me to read it?

Yes, read it.

Okay, guys.

Buckle in.

Exterior hospital.

Spy shot.

Pam is on a bench with the baby.

People pass by.

She looks down at the crying baby.

She looks around, puts on the nursing blanket, and presents her breast to the baby.

Pam says, Come on, I got good breasts.

I got milk in here for you.

I got good stuff in here.

Don't you like my tites?

Is this about that cup of coffee I had in the second trimester?

Give me a break.

I'm trying here.

Are you going to bust my balls your whole life?

Pam looks around to make sure the camera is not around, but we have very good hiding spots.

Pam starts to sing Brom's lullaby.

Have a drink, have a drink.

Come on, little Cecilia, I've got milk here in my tite.

It's something that tastes good.

Grab a hold here.

Get your drink on.

Come on, latch your stupid mouth.

Oh, you're getting it.

Yes.

The baby responds, and for the first time, Pam relaxes.

Something changes in her face, and she seems happy.

Jim pulls up and gets out.

Jenna, I read this and I was like, what?

What?

Would Pam ever tell her baby, don't bust my balls and drink from my tite and shut your stupid mouth?

I was like, what happened here?

What happened?

Lady, I couldn't do it.

I couldn't do it.

This was not in the table draft.

This was a rewrite for the shooting draft.

On the day I talked to Charlie Grande, the writer, Paul Lieberstein, our showrunner at the time, and Harold Ramos.

I said, I cannot wrap my head around these lines.

I mean, clearly they were trying to have a comedy moment, right?

Yes.

But the language is so foreign to something Pam would do with a brand new newborn baby.

Yeah.

I mean, I said we've never seen Pam click into this kind of like,

I don't know what kind of humor you call it.

Like, kind of crass.

Yeah.

Is there a version of Pam?

We don't know because she looks around to make sure the camera isn't there.

And then she's like,

look at my titty.

I don't know.

This person.

So we shot it, even though I kept saying the two things that I really couldn't say

were titty, which I had to say twice, and stupid little mouth.

And I said, I cannot look at this baby and say stupid little mouth.

I can't do it.

And they kept telling me that it was like charming and ironic and something that moms do.

That like moms are like, come on, baby, latch your stupid little mouth on my tite.

Like, that's what they were going for.

They were going for like, she's either gonna like start crying or she has to like be a weirdo.

And I was like, I'm just, I can only approach this earnestly.

That is who Pam is in her heart.

Yeah.

I don't believe it.

It was a huge thing.

So we shot it.

They went to the editing room and it didn't work.

Right.

They saw that it didn't work.

We shot this outside of the hospital, by the way.

We shot this on the real bench outside of the real hospital on location.

So when they realized that it didn't work, they wanted to do a reshoot.

So they built a bench and like the exterior of the hospital on our warehouse set.

This is the other set that I was saying was not really outside.

And instead, they went back to the table redraft, which just has Pam sitting there like maybe she's on the verge of tears.

And then it happens just as Jim walks up.

And then we know they're going to be okay.

Oh, my heart needed that scene.

Yes.

I didn't need a comedy moment here.

I just needed them to be okay.

Yeah.

So when you're watching that scene, we are very carefully cutting back between the original shoot day and that reshoot day.

I mean, I will just never forget that because that wasn't

stupid little mouth, I couldn't say it.

Oh my gosh, look at my tate.

Who is Pam?

I don't know.

Who is Pam in this moment?

Anyway, that finishes out Jim and pam's storyline but we have to go back and talk about this very important facts that andy is going to send to aaron oh aaron it's so sweet the facts is andy asking aaron out to dinner i wanted to point out that at 20 minutes 30 seconds the facts cover sheet has a new logo that says dunder mifflin a division of sabre

This is the only nod to Sabre or the Sabre storyline.

In the whole episode.

In both of the delivery episodes.

We've sort of not talked about Sabre, but there it is alive and well.

Well, old tech alert, we have a fax machine, guys.

Remember those?

And Erin is trying to use it.

The number keeps ringing busy.

Yes, because she's faxing it to herself.

I know, I know.

And Andy didn't think about that.

He did it.

And he said she's going to get fired if she doesn't do it.

And she just starts crying.

Bless her heart.

And then he's like, no, no, read it.

Read it.

And then, finally.

Yes, they're going to go on a date.

Finally.

And they're both so happy.

We got some mail asking if Andy's line, it's a date, was a callback to Jim telling Pam it's a date from the job.

But writer Charlie Grandi said it was not intentional.

It's just a coincidence.

Oh, they were not trying to call anything back there.

Michael's very pleased.

He thinks he's done it again.

Yeah.

He says that there's just no greater feeling than when two two people who are perfect for each other overcome all obstacles and find true love.

But also, the cigar is making him sick.

Of course.

Over at Jim and Pam's house, Isabel stops by with some macaroni there's no fridge to put it in, but there is Dwight in a tank top,

arm hair, and all, hanging out.

I found Rain kind of sexy in this scene.

Well, so did Isabel.

Isn't that weird?

Am I weird?

What was it?

This, I think, actually, Rain is an attractive man in real life when he is not being Dwight.

And I think, like, this is your glimpse of the,

I don't know, the pheromones that are Rain.

Well, Rain has like a real sort of

just self-assurance.

And I think it's attractive.

And I think Isabel picks up on that.

Yeah.

This episode does end with Dwight and Angela getting their contract all in order.

Yes, there's a lot of paperwork, a lot of identification checking.

Okay, I have a story about this scene.

We were filming in the warehouse, you know, in the set that they built.

We sit down to rehearse.

On our table is like two stamps, stacks of papers, a contract, like so many props, right?

Harold Ramos has us rehearse the scene one time.

We're going through it.

I'm stamping things.

I'm checking off.

And Rain looks up and goes, where is the, I wanted a money pouch.

I had like a money pouch like from a bank and I wanted this other stamp, and I wanted this certain pin.

And I was like, Rain, who are you?

Carrot Top?

Look at all these props.

How many more props do you need?

And then Phil Shea came running in, and Harold was so funny.

Harold looked at me and kind of rolled his eyes and was like, He likes his props.

I was like, He does.

And we kind of had a moment where we gave Rain a little for

his love of props.

But I hope they sold the scene.

I hope when you watch it, you get how serious the two of them were taking this procreation contract.

Angela's really excited to get started.

I, you know, and it breaks my heart because Dwight is now fixated on Isabel.

I know, it's flipped.

He wanted her, she was mad at him, now she wants him, and he's given up.

He's moving on.

I can't wait to see this storyline play out.

It was a really fun storyline.

Well, before we end this episode, we got this fan question from Anna W.

in England, who wrote in to say, I'm a midwife from the UK, and my question is, do you think this is an accurate representation of what it's like to have a baby in the American healthcare system?

I actually kind of felt sad that Pam is being rushed out of the hospital when she's clearly not happy with breastfeeding and latching yet.

At the hospital where I work here in England, women are welcome to stay in the hospital for however long they need to, especially if they haven't haven't established breastfeeding yet.

In fact, we would encourage women to stay in the hospital an extra night to get more confident with feeding if they're not sure about latching.

We also don't have nurseries for babies to go to at night.

Is that a normal thing to happen in American maternity hospitals?

The babies just stay with the parents and us midwives help with feeding and changing at the bedside.

I find the differences really interesting.

Also, I once looked after a woman in labor who wanted to watch the office the whole time.

It was my best workday ever.

I delivered her baby while the episode Survivor Man was playing.

Oh my gosh, there's so much here.

Anna, thank you so much for sending in that question.

I will tell you, I've had several women tell me they gave birth while watching the office.

I hear that too.

Yeah.

We kind of touched on this a little bit last week because we got similar questions about the American healthcare system only allowing a certain few nights in the hospital.

Right.

It's why Pam was trying to wait till midnight.

Right.

You know, my memory is that you only had a few days and then they wanted that room.

Yes, if you have a vaginal birth, you get so many days.

And if you have a C-section birth, you get an extra day.

Yeah.

But then you're out of there.

You're out.

I read this interesting article in the Atlantic, and it was titled The High Cost of Having a Baby in America.

It was written by Olga Kazan, and I found it really interesting.

I thought I would share.

I'd love it.

It was written in 2019.

Here's what it says.

The average delivery cost in America now costs more than $4,500,

where, for example, in Finland, you pay less than $60

to have a baby.

But in the U.S., the average new mother with insurance will pay more than $4,500 for labor and delivery.

For this study, researchers at the University of Michigan looked at over 600,000 American women who had health insurance through their jobs and gave birth between 2008 and 2015.

They analyzed the insurance claims data for the cost of all the treatments and services the women used during the year prior to their delivery and during the delivery itself and for three months after to really get an accurate number.

Well, I'm really glad they did that because there are a lot of postnatal doctor visits that you go to after you've given birth and especially if you've had a C-section.

And I'm sure that those have co-pays and other fees so i'm glad they included that in the costs right the three months after having a baby the article goes on to say the high cost of bearing children in part also helps explain why the united states has one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the developed world i didn't know that yep when women worry about paying for their labor expenses they might delay or miss certain elements of their prenatal or postpartum care.

It also helps explain why American women are having babies at a record low rate.

There are many things that factor into this low birthing rate, but it says that it certainly doesn't help that having a baby costs more than the median average woman earns in a month.

Some women, in fact, might literally not be able to afford to get pregnant.

You know, another cost that they're not talking about there is the cost of taking off work.

after you've had your baby.

When I had my son and I was working on the office, I had no paid maternity leave and the show did not go on any kind of break.

We kind of talked about this in our book.

Yeah.

That even though the show had gone on breaks for other cast members to do movies, it did not take a break when I had my baby.

Right.

So I lost a quarter of my salary that year because I couldn't be in those episodes right after I gave birth.

So I guess you could add that to the cost of having a baby too, in addition to the medical bills.

Yeah.

well the article was really really interesting you know we have a long way to go we sure do we do that's the truth yeah

well i thought we could end on this letter angela this is from allie in atlanta georgia who said i thought this would be an appropriate episode to share my appreciation of how office ladies has touched my life.

I had my first baby in November 2019, and during late nights nursing, the office was always on as my constant companion.

Then COVID hit, and I was isolated at home with my new baby.

I quickly found Office Ladies, the podcast, and the two of you became my closest friends during my struggle with postpartum depression and anxiety.

I really appreciate how this episode shows the real struggles of new parents.

I'm now seven months pregnant with my second baby and still listening to you two regularly as I prepare for our new edition.

Thank you for being a bright light during my own journey of motherhood.

And as a side note, one in five women experience postpartum mood or anxiety disorders.

Just wanted to say that.

Thank you for all you do to inspire and be there for women.

Allie, thank you so much for sharing that.

Allie, I am so glad that we have been able to be with you during this journey.

And I can't imagine what it must have been like to be home with a newborn during COVID.

It is already such an isolating time.

It really is.

And to not be able to see family or have people stop by or have a community there with you.

It must have been very lonely.

We love you.

We love you and we're so excited for you and we wish you all the best.

And congratulations with your new baby.

Yes.

Well, I think we did it, Anch.

That's the delivery part two.

Pam and Jim and Little Cece makes three.

By the way, at the very end of the episode, they walk in and they see the destruction that's right to Dwight has been doing and they're just like,

they can't even do it.

They can't even.

And on the commentary, they just mention like they're just new parents with this newborn, and they're finally home.

And they're just like, whatever.

Yes.

Well, a big thank you to Randy Cordre, to my sister Emily, to Brian Baumgartner, and to my husband Lee Kirk.

That's right.

What a fun episode, you guys.

Thanks for listening.

And we'll see you next week for St.

Patrick's Day.

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

Office Ladies is produced by Earwolf, Jenna Fisher, and Angela Kinsey.

Our show is executive produced by Cody Fisher.

Our producer is Cassie Jerkins, our sound engineer is Sam Kiefer, and our associate producer is Ainsley Bubico.

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.

For ad-free versions of Office Ladies, go to StitcherPremium.com.

For a free one-month trial of Stitcher Premium, use code Office.

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