Casual Friday with Brian Baumgartner

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I'm Jenna Fisher.

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

We were on The Office together.

And we're best friends.

And now we're doing the Ultimate Office Rewatch podcast just for you.

Each week, we will break down an episode of The Office and give exclusive behind-the-scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you.

We're the office ladies.

Hello, everybody.

Hello.

Are you in your comfy pants?

Do you have on a t-shirt and maybe some flip-flops?

Why are you saying these things?

Because

I'm talking to you guys out there.

Oh, because it's Casual Friday.

Because it's Casual Friday.

Oh, yeah.

Why didn't I dress more casually today?

I don't know.

You look real spiffy.

Well, I know why, because we have a special guest.

We do.

Let's start by saying that Casual Friday is season five, episode 26.

Dang.

It was written by Anthony Farrell and directed by Brent Forrester.

Little tidbit.

What is it?

Editor was Claire Scanlon, and our DP was Matt Sohn.

Hey, I like this team.

I do too.

And it was the first time this team had worked together on an episode.

Wow.

Yeah.

They did a good job.

They did.

Here's your summary.

It is Casual Friday at Dundromifflin.

Easily.

It's been reinstated.

Michael is back.

He's the manager.

It's Casual Friday again.

But some of the employees are taking taking a few too many liberties with their outfit choices.

Like Angela's not happy.

Angela doesn't need to see a grown man's feet, probably ever.

I'm surprised that we didn't see bare feet on Kevin as well.

Well, yeah.

But here's the thing.

The sales team is resentful that Pam and Ryan came on as new salespeople and that they get to keep the clients that they stole.

from everybody else while they were working at Michael Scott Paper Company.

I mean, that's just awkward.

Yeah, so there's a bit of a rivalry that's gonna happen on this episode today.

Mm-hmm.

But first,

there's a pretty big thing that kicks off this episode.

This is an epic cold open.

It's the chili spill cold open.

Oh my gosh, Kevin's recipe, the pride he takes in it.

He tries to make it up the stairs, he does, and what happens?

Oh boy.

Oh boy.

Well, we felt like this was the perfect opportunity to speak to the man behind the chili, Brian Baumgartner.

That's right.

Brian is our Fast Fact one, two, and three today.

We can't wait to talk to him.

All right, here he is.

Brian!

Brian Baumgartner.

Hello.

What is

happening?

I'm so happy to be with you guys.

I love that you have a plant.

I was told that brings humanity and warmth.

What is the award that's over your shoulder?

You know what?

No one has ever asked that in all of the Zooms I've been doing for a year and a half.

Truly, it always made me laugh.

I don't have my college diploma, but I'll read.

I have Penn Foster College, a certificate of completion, which I always thought was a good joke for Kevin Malone in accounting.

That is awesome.

Certificate of completion.

Maybe all diplomas say that, but I thought, oh,

they're doing a little funny joke.

Like, it's not really a degree in accounting.

He took a weekend course.

We have a piece of paper for participating.

Well, listen, we are here to talk about the office with you and obviously about this amazing cold open.

But Brian, we always ask our guests, how did you get your job on the office?

I was walking down Hollywood Boulevard.

No.

Oh, I like the start of that.

No, I feel like my story is always seems like a humble brag or something, but my truth is, I moved to Los Angeles and I considered it my job to just watch television.

And so I started watching television shows because I was like, well, if I get an audition on this show, don't I need to know what's the style?

What's the form?

How do the characters generally behave?

So I started watching television and I watched this show called The Office, the British version of The Office.

And I started working with a manager and I called him and I said, if there is a show

that

is going to be on television, because they announced they were doing a pilot, I was like, this is the show for me.

And

I had an agent at the time.

And the agent who I called and said the same thing to said,

well,

they're looking for unknown people, but not like you unknown, Not like totally unknown.

I was like, all right, thank you very much.

But my manager called and called and called Allison Jones.

And I went in and I met with Phyllis and I read.

And then she passed me on to Allison Jones and I read with her.

And I got an appointment for the role of Stanley.

And I knew that was not the part for me.

I knew that the part for me was

in the British version, his name was Keith.

And I was like, that I get that comedy.

So I went in to this big call and I read

the role of Stanley as though I were Kevin.

Oh, wow.

So smart, Brian.

Well, or it could have been

like,

smart now.

But, right.

So I went.

I was there at the same time

Oscar Nunez was there and Leslie David Baker were there.

I can't remember who all else, but I know that they were there.

And

so I did it.

They said, thank you.

And I left and thought, well, that was a failed experiment.

And Allison Jones ran down the hall.

She said, hey, you know, they actually want to look at this other character.

And I, in my head, I went, bingo.

And went in, read that.

And

that's how it happened.

But you never said, Allison, I think I'd be a better fit for Kevin.

Would you give me a shot at it?

You just took this risk of reading Stanley like Kevin.

Yes.

Because, well, because again, I was totally unknown, right?

Like I didn't have, I didn't have the experience.

I mean, now, of course, that's what I would do.

But yeah, no, I didn't.

I didn't, I was, you know, happy to have an opportunity.

You know, I had just moved to Los Angeles a few months before.

Wow.

Yeah, I knew that.

I knew that.

Cause the first day on set when we got to know each other, just briefly chatting, Oscar and I were sort of commiserating about how many years we'd been out here plugging away.

And we're like, what about you, Brian?

And he was like,

I've lived here like eight weeks.

We're like, what?

I've been here two months.

We're like, holy crap.

Well, the thing that's like standing out to me are the number of people who came in for a role other than the one they wound up up in.

Angela, you first came in for Pam, but then also Ed originally auditioned for Michael Scott.

John was brought in to play Dwight.

Yeah.

And Rain auditioned for Michael Scott as well.

I know, that's crazy.

A lot of people.

I feel like

on the set,

you and John Krasinski were pretty good buds.

Yeah, you guys became good pals.

And the four of us, I would say, you and John, me and Angela, we could often be found in John Krasinski's trailer during lunchtime.

You guys had some heated Madden football matches.

I mean, for years.

Now I hear people talking about,

you know, what a family we were and the crew and the cast.

And all of that, by the way, is true.

But then undoubtedly someone will mention like lunch.

And at lunch, you know, you would sit with this person.

I didn't sit with anyone.

John Krasinski and I played Madden football in his trailer essentially every single day.

That's right.

It was every single day.

It was a curious

session.

If we walked past the trailer at lunch, you could literally hear, like, oh, come on.

Sometimes you would let Rain play,

but it seemed like begrudgingly.

You'd be like, oh, I guess we have to let someone else play.

But it was the two of you.

And I would like to know, are you willing to go on record and say who was better?

Because I have a memory of who was better.

Who do you think was better?

I

honestly, well, if I say that we were even, that sounds like I'm hedging, but I do.

We kind of

both had teams that if we were allowed on that day to play those teams, the other person couldn't beat

us.

Mine, weird, I wasn't a fan, was the Chargers.

And so this is so great.

They called it the Gates play.

Listen, if you ever play Old Madden and Antonio Gates in the seam, it's a touchdown every time.

So, yeah,

there's a pro tip for you, old Madden players.

Yeah, that's what I would say.

He would get mad when he lost.

I will say that.

He would get way more mad than I lost.

Oh, yeah.

And then Grumpy.

Grumpers.

Because I was going to say, Brian, I think you were the better player.

My memory from the lunches where I watched you guys play was you winning and then John getting pissed.

That's your

held on to.

Well, I remember you guys doing the Dundra Mifflin Fantasy Football League, which is still going strong.

I have been told this week's standings are that

this week's standings are that John is in fourth, Rain is in fifth, and Brian, you are in ninth.

So here's the thing.

I played Rain

this week.

And by the way, when you all hear this, it'll be the stands will be different.

Spoiler alert.

I lost to Rain this week by a point and it flipped everything.

So yeah,

I'm in trouble.

But I think I'm four and four.

Rain is, I think, five and three.

So like it literally flipped everything.

I was going through our fan mail, Brian, and a frequently asked question was about your voice because you very much do not sound like Kevin in real life.

And people were curious, how did you develop this voice for the character of Kevin?

Well,

look, I, okay, so going back,

and my manager and I, who I'm still with now, all of these years later, we still have this joke.

So the casting notice about Kevin was the following.

And I know it's true because I've said it so many times.

The only thing remarkable about Kevin is that he is remarkably unremarkable.

And so our joke is always like my manager saying to Allison Jones and everyone, you've got to meet this guy.

He is so unremarkable.

He is just the most unremarkable.

So that's really where it started, which again

really came from the character of Keith in the British version.

I was like a

theater actor, right?

Like for me, the construction of character, that's what I feel like I did, right?

So I wasn't really an improv guy.

It was for me about the character.

And so for me, it's not like putting on a voice.

But it's really about

the body, the way the body moves.

I know this is what many people are turning off.

Oh, Jenna is right now.

You should see Jenna.

I'm on the edge of my seat.

You are speaking to her theater nerd heart.

I love it.

I'm hearing you.

You created your character in your body, and that body placement informed your voice.

So it came from her whole body.

It didn't start just in your throat.

Correct.

And

the way of speaking sort of becomes sort of a manifestation of that, right?

But for Kevin,

my idea was two things.

One is that he's not aware of his size.

So hence me, like bumping into him.

That's why I'm watching.

There's no, that was one thing.

And the second thing was that if you imagine my torso, right?

He didn't rotate his hips side to side.

So if he needed to look in one direction, right, his whole body then would have to turn like shuffle step to go in that direction.

But let me be clear, there was a progression to the to the development of the character too, right?

And so I get asked sometimes like, hmm, your voice kind of changed from, you know, season one and

through the show.

And so

my justification was

in season one,

Kevin was very, very nervous and scared of the cameras.

And so when the cameras were around, he retreated into his shell like a turtle.

And then as he became more comfortable or became even friendly with some of the crew, more of his true personality came out.

Oh, I like that.

I like that too.

I think that's very good.

Well, listen, should we talk about this famous chili cold open?

I mean, Brian, we have got to.

I brought my Kevin's chili mug.

I am here for it.

So I brought chili for lunch today.

Did you really?

I did.

If you can believe it.

That's how on brand we are today.

So, so many people wrote in about this cold open, Brian.

It is so beloved, as you know.

But it is also only 36 seconds long.

I clocked it.

And here is how it is described on Dunderpedia, which I thought was kind of amazing.

It says, the cold open with Kevin's Chili has become one of the iconic moments of the show.

It takes a low-status character, offers him a high-status moment, and then mercilessly takes it away.

People relate to the moment of private embarrassment and the desperation of trying to rescue something that cannot be saved.

The scene teeters between comedy and heartbreak.

In 36 seconds.

Yeah.

You know, people come up to me all the time.

That's the moment that...

that more often than not is referred to.

And there are now for me two types of people.

There are some people who are like, oh my God, that is so hilarious.

I love it.

And then there are people who say, I can't watch it.

It breaks my heart.

I feel so bad for Kevin.

Now, I think in truth, it's somewhere in the middle.

Like,

I think that there's both.

I think,

you know, there's some physical comedy, but I think with a heartbreaking moment,

I never knew, I mean, never could have imagined that that that one moment that was shot alone with nobody else around

would

become what it has today.

Well, we got a fan mail flurry

of emails.

I dare say Blizzard.

Oh, by the way, this is a Jenna terminology.

She has a few.

I've coined some phrases.

You have.

We both have.

But the fan mail flurry slash Blizzard.

Fan mail flurry.

What can you tell us about shooting this?

Because

it is just a voiceover

with your action

of carrying this big pot of beloved chili up some stairs.

You're bringing it into the office.

We're told this is an annual event.

You've brought in your chili, and then it spills everywhere, and you try desperately to clean it up.

How did you do it?

I'm tremendously proud of this now.

The actual main portion was one take.

The spill.

The spill.

That's what we heard.

One take.

The spill was one take.

So they had done obviously some prep, right?

Because this was going to be a mess.

There was no question this was going to be a mess.

And we'd rehearsed it, how it was going to go.

Obviously, it was all about the moment of spill, having that.

look and feel as realistic as possible, right?

And that it happened in the, you know, we didn't have marks on the show, but it happened in generally the correct place for the cameras to be able to pick that up, right?

So Phil Shea came to me, like, kind of like a secret, like back channel meeting.

And he says,

all right, so just so you know, we only have three pieces of carpet, so we can't.

We can't do any more than that.

And the carpet, in case there was an accident, was from the front door around, let's call it Pam's reception desk, all the way to the Dwight and Jim Clump.

I mean, it was a huge piece of the carpet that replicated the carpet that existed there, and that they laid down and tacked in and made it appear as though that was the carpet.

And they said they had three pieces of it, and that was it.

So, we needed to go.

So,

what I have said to many people is that that was all planned for.

Cleaning me wasn't really, that wasn't really, no one had any idea what would happen.

Because I was stained.

Like I was burnt.

Your hands were like orange.

And I remember

probably my last public shower, but there were like, it felt like 14 people in the shower with me, like peeling off clothes and handing me towels to get it out of my

eyes and hair and everything.

But yes, it was the actual spilling of it was one.

And did it smell?

Because Phil Shea said they just used a gazillion cans of actual chili.

I mean, it was spicy chili.

Did you like put your head on the pillow that night and still smell chili?

I can tell you he smelled at dinner.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

We got to share that.

So, uh, so Angela and Oscar and I did regular dinners where it was like,

let's dress up a little, like, let's look like real people, uh, take off our Dunder Mifflin clothes, and let's go to a nice dinner.

This particular night, we had, and it was planned for months ahead.

We were going to Mastros in Beverly Hills.

Very nice steakhouse.

Very fancy.

We did not mess around

with these accountant dinners.

Yeah.

No, we did not mess around.

And so, of course, because I was, that was the night we were filming this.

So, everybody else got to leave early.

Angela got to curl her hair or whatever.

And so

I show up.

That's what Angela does with free time.

If I get to go somewhere fancy, I'm curling my damn hair.

Brian knows.

Let's text us for it.

That's the thing.

So I show up and know Oscar is the one because I think you and I are a little more.

I don't want to hurt Oscar's feelings if he's listening, but

there's always a seafood tower.

He orders it every time.

It is obnoxious.

It takes up the whole

table.

Lots of three-tiered tower of like seafood and like oysters.

Oysters.

Yeah, the whole.

He gets the whole, he's like, yeah, we should do the tower.

It comes like, and it's, it's like, like steam or smoke is coming off of it because there's so much dry ice.

And

yes, this is true.

So I said, this is 100% true.

So I sit down and my hands, I couldn't not smell chili.

So now here's an appetite.

Your fingernails were orange, Brian, because

you had gotten it a little bit off your hands, but my memory was your hands were still tinted this weird color, but your fingernails, forget it.

They were orange.

Done.

Done.

So imagine that.

Going into a

crab leg with, and then you bring it to your mouth and there's just, you're smelling

really

bad canned chili.

Let's just put it that way.

Yeah, it was, it was,

it was probably,

there was, there was probably some tint

for for a couple of days, but the smell for sure, at least 24 hours.

Well, I have another question about the cold open.

Is it true that the choice to try to clean up the chili with various paperwork was an improvisation in the moment where you're grabbing stuff?

I mean, that's amazing.

I love the desperation.

Once I was on the ground, I got to play a little, right?

And so I just sort of started trying other things.

And look, there are a lot of fans who have fallen in love with Kevin through watching the show.

And I attribute that to

everyone's innate desire to win one.

Yeah.

And how difficult it is to

find those little

successes.

Brent Forrester also said that he thinks they have about eight minutes of footage of you on the ground in the chili.

Eight minutes.

Think about that, you guys.

Eight minutes is a long time to be rolling around in some chili.

It was a lot.

I know that I tried a variety of slips,

which people thought was funny.

I remember trying that.

But you have to remember, again,

I remember standing by a monitor as like clothes were beginning to be taken off me

to watch it.

Right.

And again.

Oh, yeah, because you could do that.

You could like rewind the tape and watch it back and decide, did we have it or not?

Correct.

They didn't use that capability on a daily basis, but on a major scene where you needed to, you know, there was going to be a huge reset.

Yeah.

And so I remember even, you know, watching it and me feeling good about it, but me feeling good about it

doesn't really matter, right?

And I remember going into the showers, not knowing if, you know, because, right, like Laverne and Debbie are great hair and makeup people.

Like, they're all standing by ready to try to totally reset me to go again.

And, you know, they had obviously multiple out, you know, of the same outfit, et cetera.

So, yeah,

I remember that moment about like, please, please, I think we have it.

I think we're good.

All right, Brian, we also ask everyone this question.

What did you take from the set when you left?

Well, I took a few things, right?

So

I took the diploma, Kevin's or certificate of completion

so my first ever joke in the show when um kevin is described by michael scott he says something like

he's not a great accountant but a pretty good entertainer and they cut to a b-roll shot with me with

me with my uh

giant pencil which sat on my desk then for all the years, which most people don't know is a piggy bank.

It's still empty, but I took that

and I took my name plate.

And I uh, you had a name plate all these years.

I didn't realize you had a name plate.

I had a, I had a name plate.

I didn't know that I didn't have a name plate.

Well, here's the thing that's crazy.

Does it say Kevin Malone?

And here's the crazy thing, right?

My desk was in a clump.

You couldn't even see it.

No, it faced me.

Like, why

it faced you.

To remind you of your name.

Because it's not announced.

You know, usually you have a name plate.

Like, if you have an office and someone walks in, they can see immediately what your name is.

Like, if you go into a bank, it's like, oh, this is Susie Marshall.

Hi, Susie.

No, it was a name plate that faced me for 10 years.

It makes no sense.

Behind a piece of glass.

Behind it.

Yes, but what I'm saying is you would have to sit in my lap to see the nameplate.

This is why we didn't

one.

It makes no.

No, I know.

There was no thing.

So, yeah, I took the nameplate.

I took the

pencil and I took the jar of M ⁇ Ms.

Oh, yes.

I love that.

This has been so awesome.

It's been so wonderful to talk to you, Brian.

Yeah.

Thank you for letting us interview you.

You make your living interviewing people, and now you have a book out.

Tell us about your book.

Welcome to Dunder Mifflin.

The, I mean, we're out in time for the holidays.

This is prime holiday shopping moment, everyone.

Listen up.

This is stocking stuffer material.

Brian, I've seen the book.

You're not getting that book into a stocking.

Well, it's thick.

That's what she said.

There you go.

It's a thick gift.

It is.

With two C's.

All right.

Okay.

Okay.

So tell us about it.

Welcome to Dunder Mifflin.

It is, you know,

gosh, now a couple of years

I have been working on constructing

a full oral history of the office and

what happened.

And specifically for me, it was about a question.

right and the

question was very simply we were we were a big show when we were on on right we were we were the number one scripted show on nbc for most of the time that we were on the air but

what has happened since as you all know the success the huge success of your podcast that that the show is so much bigger now than it ever was and my question was why now

seven eight years since we've filmed a scene, why is this show now the undisputed champion of viewers

in the world?

Why are more people watching this show than any other show?

And so for me, it was about going back to look at what happened.

Why?

Why did this happen?

Was it about the construction of the cast?

Was it about the aesthetic that was chosen originally by Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant and through Greg Daniels and Ken Kwapas?

So it's really sort of a macro version of what happened.

So I'm super excited and proud of the book

and can't wait.

And is it like an overview?

Is it like a collection of interviews like from your podcast, The Oral History of the Office?

It's a little bit of everything.

Yeah, it really goes back and traces my journey of me attempting to answer this question.

So it goes into

today as well and the legacy of the show.

But I went back to Scranton like a real journalist, went back to Scranton and met with a lot of our old friends from there to talk about how

the show was influenced directly from them and how the show has really changed that town.

So

it's a comprehensive look, but

I think fans will really enjoy it.

I think that's fantastic.

Make sure you get a copy.

Well, thank you.

Signed, I hope.

Is I get a signed copy?

Yeah.

You're not saying yes.

Yes.

Okay.

Brian, you have another announcement.

Well, listen, I have a podcast, The Office Deep Dive.

And next year, January 4th, coming up, I'm going to be extending and transitioning to a new podcast off

the beat with Brian Baumgartner.

Coming in January.

So I've loved talking to all the folks on the office, right?

Having lengthy discussions, but really talking about the moments in between the moments that

is mostly covered by other press.

So, starting next year, I'm going to be talking to your other favorite stars from TV, like Modern Family, Cheers, Seinfeld, Fresh Prince of Bel Air, whoever.

And we're going to be focusing on

an important moment in these stars' lives that happened off the beat.

I had a French director who told me,

which is really applicable to the office, by the way.

You can steal this,

that comedy, real comedy happens off the beat.

And so for me, the moments that I want to talk to people about are the moments that happened in between.

the important moments, the things that lead to those big moments that everyone else is covering.

So I'm super excited to be expanding from the office.

Obviously, we'll keep checking in with the office, but talking to people from your other favorite television shows.

That is fantastic, Brian.

We can't wait to hear it.

It's going to be great.

Thank you so much.

I appreciate it.

All right, bombers, we love you so much.

Thank you again, Brian, for this generous interview.

Thanks for coming on office, ladies.

Thank you so much for having me.

Congratulations to everything

that you guys are doing.

I'm so, so happy and proud of you both.

And I love you so, so much.

Love you, Bea.

It's going to make me cry.

I know.

We love you, Brian.

Hello from my Airbnb.

I am.

Staying in an Airbnb while I'm in Chicago doing my play.

That's right.

You said it was great because your family was joining you for part of that time and you wanted a home.

I did because we're going to be here for a little while.

But you know, I have used Airbnb for shorter trips as well.

Yeah.

Are you ready for this?

What?

So one of my mom friends at the school,

she went to Iceland with her kids and they got an Airbnb.

In Iceland?

In Iceland.

Wow.

I was like, okay, you're going to have to tell me which one that is because that looked amazing.

Some trips are better in an Airbnb.

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Well, I loved our interview with Brian.

I loved every second.

It just made me miss us all hanging out.

Now, listen, in our interview with Brian, we talked a lot about his chili cold open.

But if you can believe it, there are a few more things that we can share about it.

So, first of all, it was written by Aaron Scher, and it was originally supposed to be the cold open for his script, Michael Scott Paper Company.

But it ended up getting cut and moved to Casual Friday.

And

there was a lot that our crew had to do to pull off this chili stunt.

Yes, our first assistant director, Rusty Mahmood, shared in an interview, and I found this so interesting, Jenna.

He said when he would read a script that had a cold open that was very prop intensive, it was immediately stressful for him.

Oh, no.

So while everyone else is laughing, he could appreciate, right, the humor, but he also saw the hard work that was going to go behind it.

Sure.

He said his thought process in particular for this moment was, how do we drop a huge vat of chili without destroying our office?

So they had a prop meeting.

They had to discuss how big the vat was, where it was going to fall, all of that stuff that Brian talked about.

Yeah, Randy added that on a practical note, they deliberately made this the very last scene of the week.

So they could have time to clean it up before Monday, basically.

Right, because they didn't know how bad it was going to be.

Oh, my gosh.

So even though they had done all these rehearsals, their concern was that it's a vat of chili falling.

It could hit at some weird angle.

And splatter across the wall.

All over everything.

Yeah.

And I mean, just like think about the medicine ball that was never supposed to pop unless you hit it on the seam in the right space.

And sure enough, That happened.

So they had to be prepared for everything.

Randy also mentioned that the part where Kevin's just carrying the Vada chili up the stairs, they could not afford for a spill on the staircase.

Yes.

Oh, God.

So for that, they filled the pot with some sandbags because they did still want it to feel heavy.

Right.

And Brian, as you know, classically trained actor.

Yes.

He has said numerous times that he didn't want to fake carrying something heavy.

He wanted to feel carrying something heavy.

Yes.

And then another little cheat they did was with the actual pot of chili.

They thought they could make a fake bottom on that vat so that, like, the bottom third was filled with foam, and then there would be a fake bottom to the pot.

So it wouldn't be as much chili falling out.

That would help avert a disaster.

Yeah.

Also, Rusty said that if they filled the whole thing with chili, it probably would have weighed over 50 pounds.

So they needed something that Brian could carry through the door.

And in the end, Rusty shared that it took about an hour to clean everything up and replace that carpet.

One last thing I would like to share about this chili cold open is some of the dialogue that was part of Kevin's voiceover that didn't make it in.

Oh, this is in the shooting draft.

And I guess it would have bought him more time to do different things.

Sure.

Right?

But they trimmed it down.

Here are two things Kevin would have said.

Spiciness is to chili, what makeup is to a woman.

I don't need a lot.

I've got a sexy pot of chili.

Okay.

Okay.

And now

for the next one?

Parsley is a tricky little beast, but it will tolerate some shade.

Hmm.

I don't know.

It's just funny to me.

And you know, the writer Anthony said they had so much fun coming up with spices and ingredients for Kevin to say.

Oh, yeah.

I'm sure that was a fun writer's room pitch.

Well, now I think we can get into this episode, which has a great opening that was so fun to shoot.

Pam and Ryan come in with this big circle thing with a question mark on it.

Wait, wait, hold up.

Before they even come in, you have got to go to one minute, one seconds.

There is no plant at reception.

Well, of course not.

No plant.

We know who's responsible for those plants and it's Pam.

I know, but Erin hasn't brought anything in.

I just couldn't believe it.

It didn't even feel like front reception to me.

Oh, that means a lot.

You're welcome.

Also, can we please note Pam's khaki pants and taupe, kids?

Is it taupe?

Beige?

Really?

Mm-hmm.

They're not white?

Nope.

Scandalous.

Very scandalous.

As you were saying, they're holding this piece of paper with a big question mark on it.

Who's behind it?

Who is it?

Who is it?

Who is it?

Who is it?

Well, it's someone trying to bust through.

It takes him several tries.

I was cracking up at you and BJ, not Ryan and Pam, but I could see you and BJ when he was trying.

There was real resistance.

You guys were really like having to hold it steady.

Well, people wanted to know, was it like scripted that he would have a hard time breaking through this paper?

Or is that just what happened?

Yes, it was scripted.

Director Brent Forrester actually shared that this idea was based on something that I guess the writers had seen on YouTube of a...

a high school cheerleading squad trying to bust through a paper banner, but it wouldn't rip and they end up in a pile or something.

There's so many.

There's so many.

This clearly is a thing that happens.

I have kind of witnessed this a little bit.

Like live.

Live, yes.

And then sometimes what happens is the team is running behind the cheerleaders.

Oh, no.

I know.

And then you hit that resistance.

Yes.

And that, yeah.

Yeah.

Phil Shea made six of those circles for Steve to bust through.

He used butcher paper, which is heavier than regular paper.

So it would actually be kind of tough.

What was the circle?

Like a hula hoop or something?

Yeah.

We only had to do the scene twice, though.

So there's four extra circles sitting backstage that day.

Of course, Michael is going to announce conference room five minutes.

Oh, he's been in the office for 40 seconds and he's already calling the conference room.

Conference room, five minutes.

In this conference room, he really invites the employees to say whatever is on their mind.

He wants an apology

desperately.

And this starts for my character at just a delightful storyline, which is every single person in the office loves Casual Friday, but Angela Martin hates it

and finds it inappropriate.

It is also in this meeting where Michael is going to let everyone know that Pam and Ryan are staying on in sales and they get to keep the clients.

And people are not happy about that.

One of my favorite lines of the episode is when Andy says, I call foul, sir.

Well, Michael says people can file their complaints into the trash can,

The complaint department.

Jenna, did you notice in this scene that Pam is completely covered by her purple sweater and Phyllis is only in the plaid shirt?

That was intentional because they don't want to mess up the reveal.

Yes, and it's a bit of a cheat because you have to imagine that just because the audience hasn't seen Pam and Phyllis standing in their identical outfits, surely Pam and Phyllis have seen one another as they went into the conference room.

Exactly.

They've been there for most of the morning.

But that brings us to the kitchen where Pam and Phyllis discover that they are in fact wearing the exact same outfit that they both liked on the mannequin at the mall.

Pam says they got it at Boss Cove's at the Steamtown Mall.

Mm-hmm.

So you know I had to know.

Is it a real store?

Is Bosco's a real store?

And is it at the Steamtown Mall?

Well, let me tell you, Boss Coves is a real store, and there is one at the Steamtown Mall.

And I had to know a little bit about what this store is because they're very East Coast.

I'd never heard of it.

Right either.

On the Boscoves website, it says it is a family-owned department store for over 100 years, and it is, in fact, America's largest family-owned department store.

Oh,

yes, Jenna, are you ready for this?

A little bit of background info on Boscoves.

And this is on their website.

At only 18 years old, Solomon Boscov left his family in Russia, emigrated to the United States in 1914.

He settled in Reading, Pennsylvania.

With a pack on his back and a few dollars he had, he began peddling household goods to the farm families in the surrounding area.

Like a door-to-door salesman?

That's right.

And he got a reputation of being very fair and very honest.

The business grew.

His reputation grew.

He was able to buy dry goods and provide merchandise.

And the first Boscov's department store was established.

And it's still going strong today.

Lady, hear me out.

Next time we're in Scranton, we go to Boscoves at the Steamtown Mall and we buy matching outfits.

Done.

And then we go bowl and go to Poor Richards.

I mean, we have a lot of places to go.

We got a lot of places to go.

Well, we got a lot of mail about these matching outfits.

So many questions on how they were chosen and also if I felt at all that this outfit was a little out of character for Pam.

Well, I reached out to Alicia, our wardrobe designer, for this episode, and she shared with me that this storyline was a very late addition to the script.

She had very little time to figure out what this matching outfit will be.

She said she normally would have made something from scratch because that's her.

I mean, this woman is amazing at building clothing.

Yeah.

But because of time, she had to find existing pieces.

So Alicia started by going to the stores where she would buy Phyllis's wardrobe.

And she was really concerned about Phyllis feeling comfortable in this outfit.

She shared that she had color palettes for all of our characters.

And she looked at the color palettes for Pam and Phyllis.

And she saw that we had a few overlapping colors.

And our overlapping colors were mauve, mint, cocoa brown, navy, and purple.

I would dare say that purple was an overlapping color for the majority of the office.

I think Alicia likes purple.

Well, I had a purple breakdown of a whole scene.

I think when we have Alicia on the podcast, we're going to ask her, what's your favorite color?

Let's see if she says purple.

I think she's going to say purple.

So she said the first item she found was the plaid shirt.

And she thought that was a good place to start.

She said, also, our characters both tended to layer our clothes.

And she thought, though, that there needed to be something that wasn't too Phyllis or too Pam about it.

So she thought the little sweater shrug was another good crossover item.

So that was her first choice of outfit.

And then she bought it in both of our sizes.

And then she found two other outfits that she thought might work.

Well, this is all happening at 9 p.m.

as the mall is closing the night before we had to shoot this.

Oh my God.

That's how little time she had.

She's like sprinting through them all.

Yes.

So the next morning, Phyllis came in for her fitting and Alicia said the plaid shirt was the clear winner.

I came in for my fitting.

I thought it was really cute.

They altered the top a little bit for me.

You might notice that my version is a little more fitted in the chest.

I will say, looking back, this is not a fashionable outfit.

It is.

It is not.

Here's the thing.

The plaid shirt is fine.

It's the sweater.

I don't know what you call that thing.

It's not a shrug.

Shrug.

She called it a shrug.

Well, guess what?

Just listen to the word shrug.

Is that something you want to wear?

Listen, back then, those shrugs were a thing.

They were.

You can look it up.

And Capri pants were a thing.

Oh, yeah.

So I think maybe this outfit has just not held up great over time.

Really.

But at the same time,

Pam has never been a real fashion-forward gal.

You know, she saw something on a mannequin.

She tried it.

I do like looking back, trying to imagine, like, how did Jim handle this back at the house when she's like, what do you think?

Is Jim is like, it's great.

It's, it's different.

How did what?

Have you had that moment?

Okay, okay.

Jim wore a knit tie for years.

He also bought his parents' house that had a clown mounted to the wall, a clown painting.

I don't know that Jim has his finger on the pulse of fashion.

I guess you're right.

I think he probably thinks Pam looks cute and everything.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Lee has tried that for me when I'm like, okay, what do you think of this outfit?

He'll say, I think you look beautiful and everything.

I'll say, well, obviously I'm not getting this outfit.

because if I looked good, you'd just tell me I looked good.

He'd be like, no, I'm telling you.

I think you're beautiful and everything.

I think you're beautiful.

I love you.

And I'm like, Okay, okay.

Take a picture of me.

I'm going to send it to Angela.

I need a real kid.

This is true.

I get, whenever Jen has to buy an outfit for anything, four years, this is like over a decade now.

I get a little photo shoot spread texted to me.

Yes.

And you ask my thoughts.

What would you say if I sent you this outfit?

I would say skip the purple shruggy thing.

Keep the shirt.

Khaki pants are fine.

You know, given when this episode aired.

Okay.

Fair enough.

Well, Phyllis has a ton of sass in this episode.

Oh my gosh.

She tells Pam that she looks like a trout.

She says, close your mouth, sweetie.

You look like a trout.

This is an epic insult.

I am telling you, that is like amazing.

Could you imagine saying to someone, you look like a trout?

No.

I think it's, I think, I think, like, you know, how in your mind, you have like a fantasy argument with someone who you've always wanted to tell off, but maybe you're like me and you're not confrontational?

This is a fantasy moment.

Close your mouth, sweetie.

You look like a trout.

This is going to take us to a scene where Angela is complaining to Toby because Oscar has worn sandals and you can see his feet.

Jenna, this scene was so much fun to do.

I had so much fun yelling at Toby.

And as as I exit, I say, excuse me, oh, you're so educated, aren't you, Toby?

So trained to deal with a hysterical woman.

I had an improvisation that made it in.

I yelled, I don't want to look at his feet.

That was improv.

Very good.

Thank you.

But you guys, let's think about this for a second.

Do you really want to look at men's feet at work or on an airplane?

You guys that wear flip-flops on airplanes, I get it.

Maybe it's your vacation.

You're going somewhere tropical.

Mm-hmm.

I don't know when I see feet on a plane.

It's weird.

Do you take your shoes off on a plane?

If you have on shoes and socks, will you take off your shoes if you have a long flight?

I mean, it has to be a pretty long flight.

I'm always cold, so I don't take my shoes off.

You know what I bring?

What?

Slippers?

Bring little like slipper socks.

And so I'll take off my shoes and put on slipper socks.

Just, I don't know.

Just because I think it's rude to just be in like sock feet on a plane, too.

Yeah.

It's a small space.

You don't wear your slipper socks into the bathroom, though.

You put your shoes back on.

Yes.

Oh, yes.

Gross, right?

I'm certain men are pissing all over the bathroom.

Oh, my God.

I wipe my rock.

I have a socker down.

I wipe it.

I do like a cleaning before I go to the bathroom.

For sure.

Anyway, I'm just saying, is Angela.

Oh, and just for the record, I do wash my hands when I exit an airplane washroom.

I was saying, I feel like I have to tell people now.

Thank God.

Every time.

Well, listen.

Even if I just pee.

Listen, we all know that Angela is the office bitch, but I think, I think, you know, maybe open-toed sandals for men on Casual Friday.

Maybe I would agree with her.

I didn't disagree with her.

There you go.

Well, this leads Toby to have this talking head where he reveals that he was in the seminary for a year.

And there's a photo of him that we've never seen before.

No, Randy shared that that was like a green screen photo.

They took a picture at the church where Phyllis got married, and then they superimposed Paul onto that picture for that seminary photo.

But he says that he dropped out to have sex with a woman named Kathy.

He followed her to Scranton, got a job in HR, but now they're divorced.

Now, this is very much at odds with that deleted scene that you told us about from Local Ad, where he says he worked in advertising for three years before joining Dunder Mifflin.

I know.

But that was deleted.

So we decided if something was deleted, it didn't really happen in the world of the office.

That's how we're saying it.

Yes.

I want you guys to know in the background of this talking head, over Toby's shoulder, I saw Leslie eating.

What?

If you watch it, go to five minutes, one second.

I mean, Leslie had to be in the background for so long during all of these talking heads.

He was such a trooper.

I think he just got hungry.

So he's Stanley's having a snack at his desk.

It works.

So next up, we're going to start to see a little bit of how Michael might be giving preferential treatment to Pam and Ryan.

Well, he goes and gets Ryan a soda.

And then Jenna, what does he get?

Pam.

He gives Pam a Fiji water.

I am telling you, they were sponsoring the show.

How are they not sponsoring the show?

How many episodes now is this?

This is the third Fiji water bottle spotting.

Once again, the label is facing away from camera.

A deliberate move by Steve Corell as he sets it down.

I asked Randy about it.

Did you?

Were we getting some secret Fiji dough?

No.

He says he has no idea why these Fiji waters are showing up on set.

He said he was going to investigate it.

But he said we did not have a deal with Fiji that he knows about.

However, he did say this, which I thought was really interesting.

He said anytime he ever is line producing something that takes place on a boat, they always use Fiji water because it doesn't.

It doesn't roll.

Yeah.

Well, I feel like for me, this Fiji water on the set of the office is like that Starbucks coffee.

Remember in Game of Thrones in one, how there was the Starbucks coffee?

I do remember.

I'm like obsessed with what's up with this Fiji water.

Dwight is going to notice this special treatment that Michael is giving them.

It's time for him to pass out a secret memo with invisible ink.

Yes.

Where did he get the invisible ink?

You might like to know.

He says it's urine.

Yeah, I'm guessing his urine.

Yes.

He's very frustrated because people don't know how to reveal the invisible urine message.

Right.

They're not savvy to the invisible ink thing.

Well, this got me wondering.

Oh no.

I googled, can you use urine as invisible ink?

Oh my God.

Really and truly, at the end of this podcast, I want to print our search history and put it in a frame.

Please do.

Well, I'll have you know that yes, urine can be used as invisible ink.

And I discovered the most fascinating story of people using urine as invisible ink and I'm going to share it with you now.

Oh, okay.

I'm reclining and getting my cup of tea.

I'm settling in.

All right.

During World War II, there were a group of Polish prisoners who were taken to a Nazi death camp, and they used their urine as invisible ink to write letters detailing the horrific experiences that were going on at the camp.

They were a group of young Polish girls and women who had been part of the Polish underground resistance to the Nazi regime.

And they were captured, they were imprisoned, and this group were called the Rabbits of Ravensbruck because,

and this is horrible,

they were subjected to extreme medical experiments like rabbits.

That's why they got this nickname.

However, they were allowed to write letters to their families back home once a month.

But the letters were heavily censored.

One of these women remembered that when she was a child, her and her brother had read this series of books where people were writing messages in invisible ink.

So they used their urine to write these secret messages, and due to a reaction with the paper, the urine loses its color and becomes invisible.

But then, if you heat it up, it reveals what was written.

And in her first letter to her brother, she wrote about these books that they read as kids, and he figured out the code and knew how to reveal the hidden messages.

So they came up with this code with their families, which was if the hidden messages were revealed, the families would send back a letter with a little piece of blue string.

And that's how how they knew if their messages were being received.

So eventually, the contents of these letters and the horrific details of the camp were broadcast on the radio, and the camp was liberated by the Red Army.

And the four women who wrote the letters all survived.

Their letters were used as evidence to prosecute the guards.

Wow.

And 77 years later, these letters can still be read because 27 of them are still readable and on display in a museum in Lublin.

Oh my gosh.

That is an amazing story.

Amazing.

I was completely riveted.

I couldn't believe it.

I couldn't believe it.

Yeah, I'm just sort of speechless at the gravity of that story and how it's amazing.

I think we should take a break.

Yes.

And when we come back, we find out yet a new detail of Toby.

What is Toby?

Toby's like this onion.

We're just peeling layers back about him.

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We're back and there's this snippet of a scene.

It's just a tiny moment where Toby is trying to get Oscar to take his socks.

And he says they're clean, he was going to wear them to volleyball practice.

Who the heck is Toby?

Who is this person?

What was he in a weekly volleyball game?

Like, he plays adult volleyball?

All right.

We got some fan mail that had a few theories on this.

One of them being that,

you know, it's going to be revealed in Company Picnic that Pam likes volleyball.

Oh, is he trying to get good at volleyball to impress Pam?

That is what people were saying.

That is so good.

That this volleyball game is coming up, and maybe he wants to have something in common with Pam.

Oh, I love that.

Well, Dwight's secret message is not received.

So he is going to just tell everybody who is a salesperson who isn't Pam or Ryan, go down to the warehouse.

I love the scene in the warehouse.

I thought it was such a great ensemble scene.

It reminded me of how when Michael has to lead a conference room scene and everyone keeps getting him off track.

It was much longer than what you see in the actual episode.

And I really wanted you guys to hear the rest of the scene.

Thank you all for coming.

Now,

please, everyone take a candle.

We don't have time for candles.

They think we're all in the bathroom.

Skip the candles.

Let's cut to the chase.

How annoying is this, huh?

Do you mean what's going on today or this meeting?

No, obviously what's happening at the meeting is not annoying.

Only certain people in it are annoying.

Can I take one of these candles home?

Gentlemen,

it's time to put our balls in the guillotine, as they say.

Who has ever said that?

Regional expression.

I'm talking about going to Michael and telling him that we are ready to quit.

Oh boy, I don't know.

Yeah, Dwayne, what if he calls our blob?

Then we are gone.

Because if we do nothing, then we fail, and failure is not an option.

Well, hold on now.

Let's think this through.

If we do nothing, at least we'll have our jobs.

If we do nothing, we fail, and failure is not an option.

Well, to be clear, it is an option.

Not in my book.

My book, the cover, is failure is not an option.

It is an option.

Not in my book.

Literally.

Did you write it?

I could have watched that all day.

Oh, that's when they would just let us keep talking and character.

Yes.

It's sort of like a long-form improv exercise.

Well, while all this is happening in the warehouse,

Pam, Ryan, and Michael are like best friends.

They're up in Michael's office and they are giggling over this photo collage Michael has made.

I mean, Ryan and Pam hated each other at Michael Scott Paper Company, and now they're just like, it's like they, they're old war buddies or something.

I loved it.

I loved this dynamic.

We had a fan question from Adrian M

on the memory board that Michael makes.

When were the photos taken?

Was it done while you were filming the Michael Scott Paper Company episodes?

Yes, Adrian, they were.

We knew ahead of time that we were going to need these photos because Randy, Cordray, he would get the scripts early so that he could anticipate sight gags and props and locations and all these things that go into planning an episode.

So he knew that for this episode, we would need these pictures.

So while we were filming Broke,

we took all these pictures for the collage.

A storyline is about to start that I loved so much, Jenna, and it is Jim and Creed.

I loved it so much.

I loved how, like, Creed is being so normal that it makes you more suspicious of him.

I loved just whenever Jim and Creed were in scenes together.

And as you know, John Krasinski was always just like completely disintegrating into laughter.

Well, John loved doing scenes with Creed.

So I called Creed because I was like, Creed, you have this hilarious storyline with Jim in this episode.

And I sort of reminded him of it.

I had the shooting draft and we went through it together, Jenna.

Aw, I know.

And one of the things that cracked us up, it was a line that Creed loved, and it didn't make it in.

I want to share it with you.

So the scene starts that Creed is in the corner, and in the shooting draft, Jim gets a soda, and Creed says, You're going to be happy with that.

And Jim says, Hi.

And then Creed says, I come here to take a break.

And Jim says, Yeah.

Here's the line that got cut.

Creed says, The restroom.

That's what I call it.

Creed calls the break room the restroom.

And then the rest is scripted.

Let's talk about this storyline because eventually Creed is going to suggest that they play a game.

Yes.

And that game is going to be chess.

Uh-huh.

And not only that, Creed is a very good chess player.

Yeah.

Well, I texted with John Krasinski about this because I wanted to know, is John a good chess player?

Because I knew you were reaching out to Creed.

So I was like, I'll get John's side of this.

John said he knows how to play chess, but very poorly.

Well, this is what Creed said.

Creed said, yes, I can play chess.

I'm not an aficionado, but I have basic skills.

And he said he's actually looking forward to playing chess with his granddaughters.

Oh.

He wants to share it with them.

Oh, you know what?

Lee's dad plays chess with my son.

And it warms my heart every time I look over and see them playing chess.

It's like his thing he does with his grandpa.

Yeah.

And then what's so fantastic is is this chess runner ends with Jim's talking head that says, I'm just hiding out until all this stuff blows over with Creed playing chess at work.

He's winning.

I feel like I'm describing a dream I had.

Yeah, exactly.

So listen, when the gang comes back from down in the warehouse, Michael, Pam, and Ryan are like, where have you been?

And they claim that they've been at lunch.

And we're like, it's very early early in the morning.

What all did you have for lunch?

Because they're trying to trap them.

Andy very quickly shares this.

I had a salmon salad with water, no ice.

I was going to get a soda, but the waiter talked me out of it.

Her name was Flo.

She had black hair.

And

immediately, this is like the art of lying.

Okay.

Like he thinks by sharing a ton of details

that that's going to make him seem normal.

But let me tell you, whenever someone gives me an answer like this, I'm like,

suspect.

Yeah, you want to have the detail, but you don't just lay it all out at the top in one big blob.

No.

Michael, Pam, and Ryan are like, oh, well, if you guys, you know, went out to lunch, then I guess we can eat what's in the fridge here.

Yes.

And then the three of us go in the fridge and we start eating everybody's lunches.

Please watch this in the bloopers, you guys.

Well, I remember it.

Steve took a huge bite out of a cold salmon filet.

You're shoveling potato salad in your mouth.

It was an egg salad, lady.

Oh my god.

Egg salad.

And people asked, was it really egg salad?

It was.

Like, it was making us laugh.

You laugh so hard with a mouth full of egg salad that, like, there was like egg salad spittle.

It was so gross.

Oh, my God.

I remember it like it was yesterday.

Well, we got a fan catch from Nikki S.

about all this food.

She says, when Michael is taking the sales staff's lunches out of the fridge, he takes a green-wrapped sandwich, and it's from a gas station chain called Sheets.

They are known for their food, commonly called MTO, which stands for Made to Order.

So I looked it up, and there is this string of gas stations called Sheets in the area, and they make made-to-order food.

Here's their commercial.

I am starving.

Let's stop at Sheets.

Can't get good food at a gas station.

Really?

You couldn't have just agreed.

See, so in this moment, they've tuned into donkeys.

You know what that does to you and me.

I'm sorry.

Yep.

It makes an ass of you and me.

See, don't assume you can't get fresh made-to-order food at a gas station.

Sheets.

Feel the love.

Yeah.

Ding, don't, don't, don't, don't.

So here's what is that ad?

What is happening?

It's two people driving in a car and they want some food.

And as soon as he assumes that you can't get made to order food at a gas station, they turn into asses

and they start hee-hawing.

But here's the thing that got me that I was thinking.

Do you remember in the injury when Michael wants some yams?

Yeah.

Ryan says you can't get yams at a gas station.

Yeah.

I just just wondered, does Sheets sell yams?

Can I get a yam on my sandwich?

I looked at their menus.

It seems like each location sometimes has slightly different items.

I could not find one that had yams.

So I guess Ryan is still right.

But Sheets, I think you should consider.

I don't know for all the office fans out there, if you started selling yams at your gas station, it might be a hit.

Maybe it's a holiday item.

Yeah, it's a holiday item.

I have a question for Sheets.

Is that bread for real?

Because that bread was like the size of a Buick.

I don't know.

It's seriously, that bread was the size of Steve's head.

Here's an interesting tidbit that Brent shared in the DVD commentary.

This entire third act was written in a breakout pod of writers of Mindy, BJ, Gene, and Lee in about 12 hours.

Wow.

Entire third act.

I remember Brent sharing with us, and Alicia supports this, that this whole script came down to the wire.

That, like, this is the end of the season.

They're backed up.

They're running out of time.

We're on fumes.

We are.

Randy noted that this whole episode takes place just at Dunder Mifflin, and that the production had requested that because they were getting ready for our big 100th episode season finale company picnic.

They were prepping.

And he said, we just couldn't afford to be going on location.

We needed an episode that happened right on our set.

So maybe that contributed too to some of these rewrites at the end.

I also want to give a shout out to, you know, our unsung hero a little bit, Phil Shea, who every week had to do so much.

If you go to deleted scenes, there's a scene where Jim is welcoming Pam to the desk pod of Jim and Dwight and Pam now.

And he gives her this little island.

And on the island, it's Jim and Pam and Dwight.

Okay.

Okay.

It's like a little figurine.

Why do I not have this item?

You should own this item.

In the script, it was supposed to be Jim, Pam, and Dwight.

And deleted scenes, it's sort of like a makeshift of that.

But I guess Phil Shea spent tons of time getting this thing made.

Of course, it didn't even make it in.

Yeah.

Well, now we're coming up to a scene that is very famous as well, perhaps as famous as our chili cold open.

For sure.

I mean, I've seen people do this scene as a Halloween costume.

So many people.

It's the scene where Toby has to confront Meredith about her casual outfit, saying that it's a bit revealing.

So when she tugs on her skirt, it flashes her top.

When she pulls it back up, then it flashes the bottom.

It's a lot.

It has two standout famous lines that are quoted quite a bit to Kate Flannery.

Meredith, your boob is out.

And damn it, Meredith, where are your panties?

Well, when we talked to Brent Forrester about this episode, he told us this.

He said when he joined the writing staff of the office in season three, he noticed that the writers were sometimes having a hard time writing for the character of Meredith, who he personally loved.

And he said everyone knew Kate Flannery was really funny, but they just hadn't cracked the code of this character.

Brent shared that one day he was at lunch and he happened to be sitting next to Kate.

And so he just asked her, Kate, what makes you funny?

And apparently Kate said something to the effect of, Brent, I'm the daughter of an old Irish bar owner.

My comfort zone is loud and filthy.

So he went back to the writers and he told them this and he said it revolutionized the writing for Meredith.

He got credited with cracking the code.

And he was like, all I did was just ask the actress.

He said it was actually a good lesson.

Like, go ask the actress.

Like, what are you really good at?

What do you like to do?

Right.

What's your thing?

And then the writer's room can lean into that.

And you mentioned this to Kate, right?

I did.

I was talking to Kate on the phone this week, and I said, Kate, we are coming up on Casual Friday.

Also, you guys, when we're recording this, Halloween has just happened.

Kate is constantly tagged in photos of people dressed.

as Meredith in this purple dress.

Yes.

With sort of a pixelated boob.

Yes.

You know.

I've just seen them.

Yeah.

So I asked Kate about this scene and here's what she had to share.

Hey, Office Lady podcast fans.

I have to tell you, when we did the table read,

I knew exactly how well this was going to pull.

It was so well written.

The scene where Toby tells Meredith to

pull up her dress.

It was just brilliantly written.

Kind of like jumping out of an airplane whenever I'm topless or more.

Yeah, cuz you just got to do it.

You can't even judge it.

You just got to go.

And luckily, Paul is a great,

he's a great partner in a scene because he plays it very small and real.

So it reminds me to keep it small and real.

And not always easy for me.

But yeah, it's so much fun.

And

there was talk of a Mirkin at one point.

A Mirkin is a wig for down there.

Yeah.

Luckily, the pixelation at NBC.

And also credit must be given to Alicia for creating this amazing dress that was so easy to hike up or hike down and have a problem.

So yeah, great wardrobe malfunction dress from a great wardrobe designer, Alicia.

So thank you for that.

And it's one of the few things I wish I'd kept and I did not.

I do have a longer version.

Someday I'll wear it in public.

Yeah, but

well, I'll to save the date, you guys.

Hold your breath.

Okay, here we go.

Thank you.

Have a great day.

And I hope it's casual day.

Okay.

Did you notice that her dress was also purple?

I did notice that.

I talked to Alicia about this dress.

It was actually a bubble skirt.

Yeah, it was not actually meant to be a dress.

It's meant to be worn at the waist.

Yeah.

I love that Kate brought up the Mirkin.

That is like a word I forgot I even knew.

Same.

Oh my gosh.

A Mirkin is like the fake.

It's fakey hair down there.

Furky hair down there.

Oh my gosh.

You know, Kate and I went on to talk on the phone about this, and she shared with me that doing these nude scenes, they were definitely not in her comfort zone, you know?

And every time she did them, she had to really step out of her comfort zone, but she would just go for it.

She told me, she was like, Ange, I never really got used to doing these.

You know, I've had to do scenes in movies where I'm wearing very little or a love scene or whatever, and it always feels awkward to me, too.

Yeah.

Well, I also asked Kate, what was she wearing underneath this purple dress?

Oh, we got a lot of fan questions about that.

What was it?

She said she was wearing a flesh-toned moleskin.

Yeah, you know, I used to use that when I did ballet to wrap my toes.

Yeah.

You know, guys, it's like that sort of...

like a fuzzy felt thing that sticks to your skin.

Exactly.

In fact, they've made it for blisters, but they use it to cover your boob area.

And then the other thing she was wearing was a thong.

Well, we spoke to Randy Cordre about this a little bit, and he said that he did insist on a closed set.

And what that means is that normally when you're doing scenes, those scenes are broadcast backstage for the hair and makeup people to observe to make sure everything's okay.

Different crew members.

Anyone backstage can sort of see on a live feed what is happening on the set.

Those get shut off when you ever have a scene like this.

No monitors backstage.

And then similarly, no guests are allowed.

on those days and no photography, of course.

And only the people who need to be in the scene or on the set are allowed on the set.

That's right.

If you're not part of the scene, you're not there.

Exactly.

The next scene made me laugh because Ryan is fielding a complaint, but it's Dwight's former client.

Dwight has had this client for 10 years who's never had a complaint.

And now this client wants to leave.

Did you catch the client's name?

No.

They say it over and over.

I don't know why.

It just tickled me because I never noticed it before.

Because you and I are truly re-watching this.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Mr.

Bart.

Mr.

Bart.

Mr.

Bart.

They're very sad about losing Mr.

Bart, but it builds to this crescendo where Phyllis ends up tearfully saying to Michael, you know, Michael, you thought you were attacking corporate, but we were the ones who got hurt.

You should be apologizing to us.

And she says, Michael, you always said we were a family and then you went after us.

Well, they talked in the DVD commentary about this moment that it was a very pivotal story moment because it had to flip Michael.

Yes.

So they needed Phyllis to really perform in this moment.

It all came down to her.

Mm-hmm.

And on the commentary, there was a little bit of a debate between Brent and Mindy.

Mindy was like, was Phyllis being calculating?

Right.

Was she manipulating Michael?

Right.

And then Claire Scanlon, who was also on the DVD commentary, was like, no, I think she was being sincere.

I read it as sincere.

I think she played it sincere.

I thought Phyllis performed it as sincere.

The thing that surprised me about this whole scene was that Ryan even had a client.

I know, that's so true.

I don't know.

I guess I thought maybe, maybe he has one.

He has one, but that one's leaving.

But I think big props to Phyllis because I think she really delivered in that moment.

And you see how Michael reevaluates everything because he does see this office as his family.

Dwight's going to write another letter in Invisible Inc.

and fan catch from Carla J who says, oh my gosh, can we please talk about how Dwight is using Ryan's cup from Kelly's America Scott Talent Party to paint the secret urine messages onto the memos?

I noticed that as well.

I thought it was very funny.

Clearly, Dwight has peed in that cup.

Listen, in the end, Michael is going to apologize to the sales force, and he's going to agree to give them their clients back.

But this means he's going to have to fire, reassign one of his Michael Scott paper company employees.

Yeah, he can only keep one of them on as a salesperson, and he's going to have to decide if it's Pam or Ryan.

Jim is going to try to help Michael by telling him maybe he should make a list of pros and cons about each person.

That doesn't go very far because Michael tries to get Jim to say some cons about Pam.

And I guess what they settle on is that I have a shrill voice.

Sometimes when those moments wind up in a script, I'm like, hmm.

Does someone in the writer's room find my voice awful?

Oh, 100%.

Only sometimes, they said, only sometimes her voice is shrill.

I guarantee you, someone was like, well, what can we say?

I don't know.

Maybe her voice gets grading.

Right?

Yeah.

Sorry, all you podcast listeners.

I had an audition one time for a national campaign for bananas.

Go on.

Yeah.

You had to eat a banana in audition.

And I didn't get the part.

The casting director, as I was delivering my lines, she said, I'm sorry.

I'm going to stop you.

Can you lower your register?

And I said,

oh,

okay.

So I have to take a bite of the banana and then say the line.

Whatever the line is, these bananas are great.

Whatever it was, I can't remember.

But so I went, I guess i was going like these bananas are great or something and so then i took a bite of the banana and you guys take a bite of banana and then try to say a line then i'm like these bananas are great i didn't get it but for the rest of my career i thought oh my gosh is my like is my voice shrill and grating and i asked my agent when i didn't get it i was like was it because she wanted me to lower my register did she say something about my register And my agent said, no, she actually said they thought the way you ate the banana was awkward.

Oh my gosh.

How?

How do actors make it?

How do you come back from that?

I don't know.

How does that not give you a complex?

I don't know.

In two areas, your voice and your banana eating.

I know.

That was always such a tricky thing.

You'd go to an audition and then you wouldn't get it.

And you would just want to know anything you would say was there any feedback any feedback and that's desperate for feedback oh my god so you could do it better next time so you could learn and then you find out you sound like a banshee and you eat a banana like a idiot

exactly and then when are you going to use that information what's your next banana eating role never apply that i will never eat a banana on camera let me tell you all right Can we talk about this scene where everyone is ganging up on Toby about Casual Friday?

Because it's delightful.

All right.

When you guys watch it, when Toby says it's canceled, everyone is like, boo.

And Angela, full smile, jumping up and down.

So yay.

But Dwight starts to take over this meeting and he says that you could still have Casual Friday, but he's going to give a few rules

like earth tones only.

And did you hear this one?

At 18 minutes, 13 seconds?

Women are forbidden to wear pants.

Huh?

Who has Dwight been talking to?

An executive at NBC, perhaps?

I wonder where that one came from.

I'll tell you what's going to happen, boys.

Once they start wearing pants, they're going to want things.

Like, you know.

Equal rights.

I don't know.

Which, by the way, I'm sorry.

Soapbox Moment, can you believe that there is still not a a ratified equal rights amendment?

That in our Constitution, the fabric of our nation, women are still not seen as equal legally.

What the F is that?

Now, the states have finally, there's enough that have ratified this amendment, but I guess they did it a little bit too late.

They missed the deadline because it took like, how many years?

Over 20, 25 years, 30 years.

So anyway, I guess they're trying to fix that loophole and say that we should ratify this amendment already.

I say about time.

And women can wear whatever they want on the bottom.

And we can show our panty lines.

And we can have pockets and we can have equal rights under the law.

Thank you.

Call your representatives.

Ask for all of them.

They'll be confused by the pockets and panty lines, but just doesn't matter.

Okay.

Clearly, we're going to Washington.

Could you imagine me in Washington testifying before Congress?

I would love it.

I would love it.

I would want you to wear the biggest, baggiest pants.

I would have

to put from my waist down to my

ankles.

When one of the old men that's on Congress asks you a question,

I would want you to stand up in your pants and say, one second, and you pull a full laptop out of one of your pockets.

And you know, but here's the thing: in the back, they fit really tight so you can see my panty line.

Yeah, big.

And it's going to be the harshest panty line you ever see.

Your target laundry day undies.

100%.

And then I'm going to say, ratify that amendment already.

And then when it's ratified, you're going to say, see, you gave us pants and we took over your fear about us in pants.

It came true.

That's right.

All right.

All right.

Michael is going to call Pam into his office, and we are going to find out who got the sales job.

Was it Pam?

Was it Ryan?

Michael.

He's got to prank you first.

This man loves a fake fire and a fake hire.

He loves it.

What is that about him?

He tells Pam he's really sorry, but he gave Ryan the sales job.

Yeah.

And Pam is disappointed.

And then he starts to giggle.

Yeah, he's joking.

And she's like, Michael.

Yeah, he offered Ryan his temp job back, and Pam is going to get this sales position.

She's so happy about it.

She is.

As she's leaving the office, Michael says, send Aaron in.

Oh, no.

So you know he's about to do some prank on Erin.

I want you guys to know that that is where the scene ended.

In the shooting draft, he says, send Aaron in.

There's no more dialogue.

Oh, yes.

Brent told us this.

Brent said that this scene coming up was Ellie Kemper's first one-on-one scene with Steve Carell.

But it wasn't even supposed to happen.

It was all improv.

That is amazing.

So basically, they just let the cameras keep rolling.

He says, send Aaron in.

Aaron walks in.

And then Steve and Aaron do this little improvised scene.

And they loved it.

And it made it into the episode.

That is amazing.

That closes out Casual Friday.

I loved this episode.

I loved this podcast.

I loved, loved this episode so much too.

And we have some shout-outs and some thank yous.

We really do.

Thank you, Brian Baumgartner, for being our guest.

Everyone, remember to check out his book, Welcome to Dunder Mifflin, and his new podcast coming out next year.

Off the beat.

We need to thank Randy Cordre, Alicia Raycraft, Kate Flannery, Creed Bratton, John Krasinski.

Thank you for letting us hit hit you up all the time for your scoop on these episodes.

Seriously, God bless you guys, because as we share a lot with you all listening, we text these guys and call them all the time.

I know.

I'm like, hey, John, how's it going?

Weird question.

Are you a good chess player?

Yeah.

Hey, Credo, how's it going?

Listen, I left some limes on your porch.

Also, can you play chess?

I know.

Pete, there must be like, what is happening?

And finally, thank you to Brent Forrester, our longtime writer in the office who also directed this episode.

Guys, you know, Brent teaches comedy writing classes that anyone can take, and you can find him and those classes over at brentforester.com.

We highly recommend.

If you have a creative idea that you want to turn into a comedy show, this is a good place to start.

Yes, and check out Kate and Creed.

You guys, they both have some wonderful shows coming up.

You can find them on Instagram at TheRealKate Flannery and at Creed Bratton.

And we will see you next week.

Bye.

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

Office Ladies is produced by Ear Wolf, Jenna Fisher, and Angela Kinsey.

Our show is executive produced by Cody Fisher.

Our producer is Cassie Jerkins.

Our sound engineer is Sam Kiefer.

And our associate producer is Ainsley Bubico.

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.

For ad-free versions of Office Ladies, go to StitcherPremium.com.

For a free one-month trial of Stitcher Premium, use code Office.

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