Business Ethics with Amy Ryan

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Speaker 1 I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey.
We were on The Office together. And we're best friends.
And now we're doing the Ultimate Office Rewatch podcast just for you.

Speaker 1 Each week, we will break down an episode of The Office and give exclusive behind-the-scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you. We're the office ladies.

Speaker 1 Hi everyone. Hey guys.
What's up Ange? What's up with you and your cute pants? Thank you for saying that. I noticed them right away.
Here's the thing. I hit a wall with sweatpants.
What?

Speaker 1 I know. Guys, one of the reasons we started this podcast was because I wanted a job I could do in sweatpants.
Uh-huh. You know, we talked about that a lot early on.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, I counted after 409 409 days of wearing sweatpants. I mean, not every single day, but for the most part for the last 409 days, I would get out of bed and put on sweatpants.
Right.

Speaker 1 I actually had several pairs of pants that were made of the same material as my sheets.

Speaker 1 Like a jersey sheet. They're a bamboo.
Okay. Made by the same company that makes my sheets.
Listen, if I can have pants made by people that make bedding. That's what I thought.

Speaker 1 It's like I'm just wearing wearing my bed around all day.

Speaker 1 I thought I'd hit the jackpot. Okay, so after 409 days of this, I hit a wall and I was like, I need to wear pants, actual pants.
So I went out and I bought a pair of pants, Angela.

Speaker 1 I'm going to stand up. I'm going to show you.
I'm going to describe them to you. I'm going to take a picture.
They kind of look like camouflage, but like very sassy cargo kind of pants.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's what I was going for.

Speaker 1 Sassy cargo. Yeah, I love a sassy cargo.
Okay. All right.
So here's the thing. I think I'm so used to wearing sweatpants.
I'm in the dressing room and I don't know which size of pants to buy.

Speaker 1 Because you've been wearing the baggy breeches. That's right.

Speaker 1 I went back and forth and back and forth and I went with the bigger size.

Speaker 1 And now I've been wearing them for what? I don't know, an hour?

Speaker 1 Now they're all stretched out. They're too big.
And look what happens. Now they're falling down and I've got long crotch.
Long crotch.

Speaker 1 You can see it. You have long crotch.
Gals, you know what we're talking about.

Speaker 1 What do I do? when like the seam of your pants is like halfway between your thigh and your knees? That's long crotch. So, what do I do? I've worn them.
I can't take them back and get a smaller size.

Speaker 1 I think I could get someone to alter it in the back. Oh, my mom could do that in two seconds.
I know. And the thing is, is I just

Speaker 1 trying to re-enter. You're trying to re-enter the world.
You know, I like the sassy cargo minus the long crotch.

Speaker 1 What are we doing today? All right, let me tell you. For those of you guys wanting to know what we're doing today, it is Business Ethics, Season 5, Episode 3.
Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 It is written by Ryan Coe and directed by Jeffrey Blitz. Love it.
Here is a summary. Jim reluctantly reveals him and Pam's engagement to the office.

Speaker 1 We'll discuss. Following Ryan's recent actions, corporate has required Holly to conduct a seminar on business ethics.
Michael offers immunity to anyone willing to confess to dishonesty at work.

Speaker 1 What are we like, an episode of Survivor? I know, you get immunity, everything you say. And then we're going to light the torch for you.
Well, some things are revealed. Again, we will discuss.

Speaker 1 And it's going to cause a rift between Michael and Holly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Meanwhile, Jim makes Dwight observe the company's time theft policy, and Meredith provides outback steakhouse takeout to the entire office. So that's our summary.

Speaker 1 Would you like fast fact number one? I really would. All right.
New writer alert.

Speaker 1 Writer Ryan Ko has joined the staff for season five. Hello, Ryan.
Hello, Ryan. He was only with us for one season as he left to work on Cougar Town.
Oh, we knew lots of folks on Cougar Town.

Speaker 1 We sure did, Busy Phillips. Oh, yeah.
He is also a writer and co-executive producer of The Simpsons. Welcome, Ryan.
Welcome. Fast Fact number two:

Speaker 1 no Pam. Outside of the cold open where you hear Pam's voice, there is no Pam in this episode.
But there was Pam. There was, you guys.

Speaker 1 There was. I filmed a bunch of scenes at art school and they all got cut out.
I know. I saw in the deleted scenes.
There's like three. Well, I'm going to talk about them as we break down this episode.

Speaker 1 On office, ladies, Pam will be inserted into this episode again. She will live again.
She will. And also, Jenna, there was an amazing Ryan Kevin runner that got deleted for time.
And it's great.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to bring that up. You guys, we're bringing it all back today in business ethics.
Fast fact number three,

Speaker 1 Amy Ryan. Holly is here today.

Speaker 1 We interviewed Amy Ryan all about this episode and her time on the office. Let's hear it.

Speaker 1 Amy Ryan, welcome to Office Ladies.

Speaker 2 Hi, Office Ladies. I'm so glad to be here and to see your beautiful faces and the interior of your closets.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I was going to say, welcome to our closets.

Speaker 1 Amy, it's so good to see you. Holly Flax.

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh. Hollis, we found out your name is Hollis.
Is that right? Because it's on your little name placard. Yes.
I don't know if I ever knew that.

Speaker 2 That's a really good tip.

Speaker 1 Would you have played the character differently?

Speaker 2 Tony, I would have been much more, you know, refined.

Speaker 2 I feel like Hollis is much more refined, or maybe I would have had an accent.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I think if your character had been a Supreme Court judge, you might have gone by Hollis.

Speaker 1 Yes. But you ended up in HR, and so you went with the less formal Holly, maybe.

Speaker 2 That's correct.

Speaker 2 Yeah, when you run HR, you really want to be more approachable. You know,

Speaker 2 kind of a, you know, warm, fuzzy character.

Speaker 1 That makes sense.

Speaker 1 Holly was a warm, fuzzy character and we're in love with her i am so enamored by holly and michael jenna and i have cried because michael is like finally with someone that cares about him

Speaker 1 she's dead well in watching it episode by episode and just

Speaker 1 four years of michael not having a partner to suddenly see a woman partner with him and joke with him and like his jokes. I did.
I cried.

Speaker 2 Oh, you know, in preparation for meeting you both today,

Speaker 2 I re-watched the episode. I hadn't watched the show in a long time, save for like popping in the room when my daughter was on her third pass of the series.

Speaker 2 But it is so moving. I think all the characters are so moving.
There's, I know everyone's talked about this before, but that element of the family.

Speaker 2 You know, it's not a workplace, it's actually a family. And that really comes through so beautifully.
But Holly and Michael, I mean, I've always said, you know, there's a lid for every pot.

Speaker 2 So they finally found each other, but

Speaker 1 she has a high tolerance, I suppose,

Speaker 1 for

Speaker 2 that kind of guy.

Speaker 1 Well, we always like to ask people, Amy, how did you come to be on the show? And we did a little research.

Speaker 1 Paul Lieberstein told us that they came to you, they were huge fans, but that you had simultaneously mentioned to your agent you might like to do our show.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 So what was that that process? Yeah. How did it go down? That is true.

Speaker 2 And the timing was eerie because

Speaker 2 I did say that to my agent. It was soon after the Oscars and I was like, you know,

Speaker 2 I'm doing a lot of dramas. And if I have any kind of cachet right now at this moment, I want to do a comedy and I want to do a comedy like The Office because I was never good at the four-camera.

Speaker 2 sitcom. I just felt too much pressure and it wasn't like, I always feel like characters weren't really rooted in a reality the way the office was.
And that goes back to how I met Paul Lieberstein.

Speaker 2 We were both employed on The Naked Truth, and he was a writer. My agent had kind of reached out, and at the same time, Paul had reached out, I guess, to him.

Speaker 2 I don't know who got there first, but it was, I really think it was like about the same week.

Speaker 2 And Paul had mentioned that he was also a fan of The Wire, as were some of the other writers. So it was

Speaker 1 kind of

Speaker 2 a culmination of all those worlds coming together.

Speaker 1 And did they pitch the character of Holly to you, or did you like have a script to read or anything?

Speaker 2 I don't remember reading a script. I remember saying, hearing it was a one episode only and potential love interest, which obviously I knew was code for we'll see how you do, kid,

Speaker 1 if we have you back.

Speaker 2 I remember also, because I was a big fan of the British series, David finally gets a woman who likes him too. So it was loosely based, I think, on her for the first episode.

Speaker 2 And then our group took it to a different level. So there was no script that I was privy to, but

Speaker 2 I knew the kind of general idea of it.

Speaker 1 What was it like to walk onto the set for the first time?

Speaker 1 Really weird.

Speaker 1 It's really weird.

Speaker 2 It's because also then now I'm a fan of the American version. And you start to know the set, obviously, from the the comfort of your couch or your tablet or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 You know, when you get there, it's like, oh, everything's smaller.

Speaker 2 And then there you all were so warm and welcoming. You know, there's always an element of being the new kid in school, and how is that going to go down?

Speaker 2 But, and also, you guys at this point are on a really massive, you know, big hit show. And it was the most down-to-earth, welcoming, warm group of people, like true ensemble

Speaker 2 that I met. And even to the end, I feel like, you know, you hear all those stories of shows that become so successful and the bad behavior starts coming out.

Speaker 2 And, you know, but at least I didn't see any of that. And I just thought it was always about the work.
And

Speaker 2 you guys really set such a beautiful tone there.

Speaker 1 Well, you said you re-watched business ethics. And one of my favorite parts is when you and Michael do the let's get physical.
Yes, that's so so funny.

Speaker 1 I watched that with my daughter, and we watched that scene like two times in a row.

Speaker 1 Just him reaching in, trying to hit the play button, and then the two of you running in with those headbands and your dance number.

Speaker 1 How did you guys come up with all that? What do we do? Well, I get the head.

Speaker 2 The headbands, I have to give credit for wardrobe. I mean, that was pretty wonderful and ridiculous, just that having that visual.
The dance, honestly, that's me just following Steve.

Speaker 2 Anything, you know, I always, anything that I was lucky enough to be partnered or paired with Steve, I was smart enough to get in the sidecar of that motorcycle ride.

Speaker 2 Like, I'm not going to lead this here. He's going to have a better idea.
So

Speaker 2 that was just me kind of, you know,

Speaker 2 literally following his choreography.

Speaker 1 Well, I wasn't there because my character was at art school. So I am super bummed that I did not get to see that done live.

Speaker 1 Did Did you guys do like tons of takes of it? You were there, and do you guys remember? It was so hard not to laugh.

Speaker 1 Like, from the minute it started, and when I was re-watching it, Oscar's face says it all. He's in the front, and I was like, I don't want to be in the front.

Speaker 1 Please don't put me in the front because I knew I was going to get so tickled. And Oscar does this thing when he's trying not to break.

Speaker 1 You know, we know each other's tails after all those years where he kind of does this mouth open thing. And that's him trying not to laugh.
So, you go back and watch. Oscar's like, I'm going to.

Speaker 1 It was so funny.

Speaker 2 First of all, being in that conference, you know,

Speaker 2 that's kind of the most famous part of the set, right? And here we go, and someone gets to present something. And

Speaker 2 it's better when, again, you're paired with someone next to you. But those scenes where I'm alone giving the conference, my hands are like white-knuckled.
I'm like trying to be like,

Speaker 2 you know, very casual holding my hands. But if you look closely, my hands are just like two iron fists of nerves.
That's the other thing. Like the

Speaker 2 everyone always asks me, is the office, was that a lot of improv? And I said, no, it was,

Speaker 2 I remember Scripty coming up to me, you know, correcting me for

Speaker 2 like of instead of at, like something really tiny. And I tell people, and tell me if I'm wrong, I was like, it was heavily scripted.
And then maybe by the third take,

Speaker 2 Steve would go off script first and then everyone would follow suit. That's my recollection of it.

Speaker 2 Would you say that's right?

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And then, and in that, I just think it was, again, like

Speaker 2 you guys are so

Speaker 2 in tune with each other and no one trying to

Speaker 2 beat anyone to the punchline. It was just a constant setup.
And it was, I thought it was just so perfect.

Speaker 2 And I think that's why people can't really tell between the scripted and when it goes to improv.

Speaker 2 It was just

Speaker 2 so perfectly done.

Speaker 1 I wanted to ask you about those restaurant scenes. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Coopers. The

Speaker 1 Coopers. Coopers.
There's that whole runner about the chastity belt where he's trying to explain what a chastity belt is.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 And you're like, a chastity belt?

Speaker 2 I think the really fun part of their relationship is that it's always a surprise when Holly's on board with him with some joke.

Speaker 2 and then those moments like the chassis belt where she's so horrified and yet so forgiving.

Speaker 2 You know, here she is, this, you know, she's still flirty with this guy and she likes him and not sure where it's going to go, but she's going to give that a pass.

Speaker 2 You know, always with Steve, it was so hard not to laugh. There was also like a thrill that sets in.

Speaker 2 Look, I remember when I was 25, I went skydiving and I did it where you're strapped to the other instructor.

Speaker 2 And just as the airplane door opened up and he made me look out, we were about, I guess, 13,000 feet near.

Speaker 2 And I remember the thought in my head is, okay, I'm going to die or I'm going to have the time of my life. Pick one.

Speaker 2 And I remember picking, I'm going to have fun. And as nervous as I was, you know,

Speaker 1 being

Speaker 1 like

Speaker 2 in those scenes with Steve, I remember that moment too, like, oh, just pick one. Why don't you have fun instead? You know, and certainly with him at the lead, like,

Speaker 2 we're all going to look good. You know, he's going to take us along for the ride, I feel.

Speaker 2 But it was so hard not to laugh, like, painfully hard not to laugh with him.

Speaker 2 But I felt like we're dropped into another place of concentration that

Speaker 2 kind of pulled it all along, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 Yeah, did you know Steve before?

Speaker 2 Yeah, you know, in a very, I had this minuscule part in Dan in Real Life that Steve starred in. It was this big extended family comedy.

Speaker 2 We all, there's a whole group of us there on location in Rhode Island, and so we all became friends. And then I think it was about like six months after that film is when The Office came up.

Speaker 2 And I believe they ran the idea by Steve of casting me, and I guess it helped. I knew him from Rhode Island for that little bit.

Speaker 1 Well, we always ask everyone if they have any like favorite memories from their time on the show, like any kind of behind-the-scenes moment or just something that you remember that stood out to you during your time on the office.

Speaker 2 Oh my gosh, there's so much. I mean, just

Speaker 2 in a general note, I would honestly

Speaker 2 no exaggeration, I would go home feeling like I worked out a series of sit-ups because my stomach muscles were always in play for laughing so so hard. And I just go home exhausted but happy.

Speaker 2 And that was a nice feeling. But there's, and speaking of that, like kind of the uncontrollable laughter, there's the episode where Daryl helps me move and he comes in the car ride the truck ride.

Speaker 1 He has, yeah.

Speaker 2 Me, Steve, and Craig, like hold up in that truck all day, kind of

Speaker 2 probably we had a little bit of lack of oxygen, but we couldn't.

Speaker 2 We were in hysterics and could barely get through the scenes.

Speaker 2 And it was that was like one of the highlights of my time there. I was just spending the day with those two guys

Speaker 1 just laughing. I mean,

Speaker 2 I say that, but I'd also be on set. and laughing all the time too.

Speaker 2 It was just very new to me.

Speaker 2 Usually I end up in these dramas where I'm crying all day. So, this is a much better way to spend your day.

Speaker 1 I remember that too. And I remember my agents asking me if I wanted to do dramas in my downtime.
You mentioned you were like, I've done a lot of dramas. I want to do a comedy.

Speaker 1 Like, do you want to take a stab at some drama? And I was like, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 I think I'm really liking the jobs where I just laugh all day because I'm like in a good mood a lot. So let's just keep doing the comedies.

Speaker 1 it was it was like um it was a happy place to work my only request was if i could ever have a scene where i didn't frown

Speaker 1 that's true you had to frown your way through this comedy

Speaker 1 well do you get recognized as holly flax like when you're out and about

Speaker 2 oh i do i do and it's interesting uh i'm sure i'm sure you guys have noticed that there's being uh being recognized when the show was on the air, and then the whole streaming

Speaker 2 version of the show that has kind of taken it to a whole new level. And everyone's getting younger.

Speaker 1 My daughter's friends. And

Speaker 2 so, yeah, I do. I still get

Speaker 2 recognized. You know, years ago, not that long ago, a few years ago, my family and our really good friends, we went to Scranton because there's this this amazing

Speaker 2 antique store called All Good Things, and it's just a warehouse, a giant warehouse of just every old antique knob, hinge, dresser, door, toilet.

Speaker 2 It goes on, it goes on forever. It's really cool.

Speaker 2 And so we go there,

Speaker 2 and then we're looking for something to eat, and we're hungry. And they pull in, and I was kind of behind the eight ball on this.
And we pull into Cooper's. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 And I go, oh, no, no, no, you guys, no.

Speaker 1 I'm pretty,

Speaker 2 I mean, I don't get harassed being, you know, but I'm pretty shy. If someone comes up to me on the street, I say hello and thank you.

Speaker 2 But I also have a lot of privacy. People don't always recognize me.
But I was like, hell no, we are not going into Cooper's.

Speaker 1 I am Polly from the office.

Speaker 2 I cannot walk into Cooper's. I cannot, I cannot, I cannot.
And they're like, and my one friend Ann was there. She's kind of naughty.
She's like, oh, it'll be so good. We have to, we have to.

Speaker 2 So they talk me into it, but I go in and I've got my head down and I'm just like waiting. I'm waiting to be treated, you know, like the Beatles here or something.

Speaker 2 And we sit in a booth, and this old tired waitress comes up and she takes our order. And my friend Ann, right away, she's like, this place is amazing.
You know, what's the story here?

Speaker 2 She's like, oh, well, we've been here for X amount of years and it was also used in the set of the office. But, you know, I mean, people used to be excited about that, but they're not anymore.

Speaker 1 What can I get you?

Speaker 1 So offended.

Speaker 2 Not one person recognized me.

Speaker 1 I know not one, not one.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 we left.

Speaker 2 We gave her a good tip and we left. And I was like, so,

Speaker 2 so bummed.

Speaker 2 But anyway, that's my Cooper story. It's pretty cool inside, though.
I think our set decoration did a pretty great job.

Speaker 2 The real Cooper's is pretty cool.

Speaker 1 Well, when people hear this podcast and they realize they might have been at Cooper's with Holly Flax and didn't know it,

Speaker 1 they're going to be like, what day? What day?

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. It's part of like a whole Scranton, the Office fan tour now.
You know, they have like a whole tour and you can go around Scranton and go to all the spots.

Speaker 1 So maybe, maybe don't go back because maybe it will be the Beatles experience. Amy, before you were going to come on the podcast, I admit,

Speaker 1 I Googled you, which is a weird thing to do. It's weird to Google someone you know.
It is so weird. It's so weird.
And I, you know, had never done that before, Googled you.

Speaker 1 But I did, and I saw all of your stage work and stage experience, which I

Speaker 1 knew that you did theater, but I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 You got your first touring job right out of school that you toured with Biloxi Blues. Right out of high school.
Yeah. So did you ever have like that day job?

Speaker 1 Did you ever have, or were you able to work pretty consistently as an actress right out of school?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so I went to a performing arts high school in New York. And then

Speaker 2 a month or so after graduation, I was cast in

Speaker 2 the touring company of Biloxi Blues. And I toured for nine months and thought, well, that's easy.
I'll work all the time, I guess.

Speaker 2 I didn't work for a long time afterwards, but

Speaker 2 I, after the tour, you know, I was still only like 18, 19. So, you know, I went back home.
So I didn't have rent. I was still, you know, my family, we lived in New York.
So I was able to afford

Speaker 2 a life in New York by just being an actor and doing acting jobs until I moved out of the house in my mid-30s.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 But I,

Speaker 2 no, yeah, I'm very, I'm very lucky. I had, I've only ever been an actor, save before high school graduation.
I worked in my aunt and uncle's ice cream shop in Vermont when I was 16. But

Speaker 2 yeah, acting's been my only job.

Speaker 1 That's amazing.

Speaker 2 It's kind of weird.

Speaker 2 But I, you know, I do think of how any young actor artist moves to LA, moves to New York from other places or, you know, to Chicago with, I always think of that person like suitcase in hand and

Speaker 2 room share list. Like my hat just goes off to them because it's so hard.
It's so hard. I don't know how people do it.

Speaker 2 You know, I was lucky that I already lived in New York and could go home for home cooked meals and all that kind of stuff. But

Speaker 2 I'm glad they're doing it somehow.

Speaker 1 Are you working on anything now, Amy?

Speaker 2 I just finished this new first season of this Hulu Hulu series called Only Murders in the Building with Steve Martin and Martin Short and Selena Gomez. And it was, again, like,

Speaker 2 it was a throwback to, like, again, Jenna, like you say, like, doing the comedy, like, oh, this feels fun. I'm in a good mood.
And certainly shooting through a pandemic, you know, it was.

Speaker 2 I wouldn't want to be on a heavy drama right now. It's just too intense.
But it was

Speaker 2 a joy to be around

Speaker 2 those people during this time. And so, but that's it.
And I don't know, I don't know what I'll do next.

Speaker 2 Even after 33 years, like I never know what's next.

Speaker 2 So we'll see what happens.

Speaker 1 Well, Amy, thank you so much for coming on office ladies and sharing your memories of being on the show. It was so cool to be back in touch with you and see you again.

Speaker 2 Oh, same here. I really miss you guys.
And I hope all's well with your families I hope to see you in person.

Speaker 1 Yes, that would be amazing. Jenna and I have said we want to do like a like an office ladies' lunch, like call up all the guests,

Speaker 1 have a lunch, wouldn't that be so fun? Yeah, oh gosh, well, let's do it. Let's do it.
Thank you so much, Amy.

Speaker 2 Thanks for having me on your show. I miss you all, and um, let's hope to see you soon.

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Speaker 1 As the seasons change and days grow darker sooner, it can be a tough time for people. There's an episode of The Office where Toby talks about this.

Speaker 1 It's called seasonal depression and it's a real thing. It is.
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Speaker 1 We are now BFFs that add it to our list. We have the same sofa.
We do. I got mine in the green color, though, and I love it.

Speaker 1 Lady, I also got one of their rugs you know they have rugs i got a rug too and it's washable yes and it came with that pad that makes it so soft yes well i haven't shared this before but when we were potty training maggie we created her in my office and she would pee on my rug and now that's the one place that she would always go so i got rid of that rug and i now have my cozy rug which is now washable.

Speaker 1 I'm very excited. Yeah.
Cozy makes furnishing your home easy. By furnishing your home with Cozy, you don't just get your dream living space, but endless possibilities and peace of mind.

Speaker 1 Transform your living space today with Cozy. Visit C-O-Z-E-Y.com, the home of possibilities made easy.

Speaker 1 That was so great. I love her.
I love her.

Speaker 1 You know, when we got finished with that interview, you guys, I asked her what color were her walls because her room, it was like painted all this like kind of dark blue-gray, like a navy blue, very cozy-looking.

Speaker 1 I know, and she was in a red dress, and her hair was perfect. I kind of want to get that bob.
I don't know if I can pull it off. It was such a cute bob.
It was.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, obviously, we're going to put the photos from our Zoomy Zoom in the Instagram. Yeah, so you can see it all.
The wall, the bob, it's coming at you.

Speaker 1 Okay, before we get into this episode, I need to share with you who was on the DVD commentary. Oh, Oh.

Speaker 1 But I'm going to let BJ tell you. What?

Speaker 3 Welcome to the commentary on business ethics.

Speaker 3 This is BJ Novak speaking, and this is a very special commentary because I have with me here four of the most beloved crew members on the office to give us a behind-the-scenes look at how things go, not just with this episode, but every day for the past hundred episodes.

Speaker 3 So, seated with me, why don't we make introductions

Speaker 3 from my left? Buartang Chikuyan, Peter Evangelatos, Sergio Jacuman, Alan Mork. And here's how it works.
There are two.

Speaker 1 I know. Oh, my God.
I know. I know.
I had the same reaction. And their voices are on the whole thing.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Oh, my goodness. I did not.

Speaker 1 I know. I know.
I texted BJ. I said, BJ, I have teared up.
I have laughed. I have had every emotion.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay, we should say who they are.

Speaker 1 Okay, so Peter and Vartian,

Speaker 1 they did our craft services. They provided the cast and crew with snacks, drinks, meals, anything that you could want, and fed us in overtime.
We called them the snack masters.

Speaker 1 Peter was so beloved to us. He was like our grandpa.
Yeah. And he took such good care of us.
He passed away a few years ago. Our cast and crew were heartbroken.
We loved this man.

Speaker 1 And it was a delight to get to hear his voice in this DVD commentary. I felt like I spent, you know, an evening with him when I re-watched it and I texted BJ immediately.

Speaker 1 And he said, oh my God, Angela, where is this? Where can I hear it? Where does it live? He said, I'm so happy it made you happy. He said, I'm so happy it exists.

Speaker 1 And he said that he pitched that Peter and Vartan and Sergio and Alan do this commentary. And people were like, what? No, you're crazy.
But he was like, you know, like they are like our sustenance.

Speaker 1 They took such good care of us we should say Sergio and Alan yes they were big time catering and they fed us lunch and breakfast they did our big main meals yeah breakfast and lunch and Peter and Vartan did everything in between yeah and I really want to share with you what all they talked about on the DVD commentary oh yeah they talked about food the whole entire episode

Speaker 1 I learned nothing about the actual episode,

Speaker 1 but I learned what everyone has for for breakfast in people's particular like requests. And it was so delightful.
And I think the office fans are going to love this. You got to say.
Okay.

Speaker 1 You have to share. Okay.
Okay. Here we go.

Speaker 1 And then I promise we will get to business ethics, you guys. Okay.

Speaker 1 First of all, we love people's process. How is their day started? What do they do? Sergio and Alan shared that they got to set very, very early.
Well, we knew this. I looked up our call sheets.

Speaker 1 You guys know I have digital clutter. I have all of our call sheets for years.
Yeah. Average CAS call time started at 5 a.m.
That meant hair and makeup had to be there at 4 a.m.

Speaker 1 That meant that Sergio and Alan had to have a full breakfast ready at 4 a.m. Wow.
So they would go to bed at 7 p.m. and get up between midnight and 1 a.m.
to be at work at 2 a.m. to start cooking.

Speaker 1 Alan said every morning I was cooking bacon at 3 a.m. And they kind of joked that he was like Michael Scott.
He liked woke up and had to start cooking bacon.

Speaker 1 But you know, they fed breakfast to around 150 people. Yep, because the crew got a hot breast.
Yes, everybody, everybody, cast and crew.

Speaker 1 Sergio and Alan, like BJ would just mention someone's name and they knew their breakfast order. Oh, say.
Okay, ready? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Steve would have mushrooms, ground turkey, egg white scramble with a side of ketchup. Okay.

Speaker 1 Rain would have a veggie scramble with egg whites and one piece of wheat toast.

Speaker 1 Jenna

Speaker 1 would have two egg whites scrambled with a little bit of cheese. That's true.

Speaker 1 Paul Lieberstein would have an egg white scramble with onions and peppers with Sergio's famous homemade salsa on the side. We were very into egg whites as a castle discovering.

Speaker 1 Keep it coming. Kate had egg white scramble with turkey bacon.
Oscar, curveball. Grilled cheese with tomato.
Amy Ryan, who's our guest this week, Spinach and egg scramble.

Speaker 1 Now, some cast members had their breakfast order become classics because they became so popular. Okay.
Okay. So you could order these three.
We've already discussed the Rashida special. Yes.

Speaker 1 Remember, invented by Rashida, black beans, turkey, bacon, avocado, egg whites, sergio salsa, two corn tortillas on the side. All right, this is a rashida.
It was the most popular. Okay.
Okay.

Speaker 1 The rashida special.

Speaker 1 Inventing the most popular breakfast. In fact, it was like one of Mindy's regular orders was the Rashida.
Okay.

Speaker 1 The Johnny K

Speaker 1 invented by John Krasinski. Tomatoes and broccoli with egg whites and a little cheddar cheese.

Speaker 1 Sounds

Speaker 1 kind of gross. I don't want to eat broccoli first thing in the morning.
I don't know. I'm not going to lie.
There were, you know, a few times I would cross over here and make up with John.

Speaker 1 It didn't smell good. It's coming back to me now.
It didn't smell good. Okay.
The Creed special. I learned something.
Creed is apparently a big goat cheese fan. He loves goat cheese.
In the morning?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. So they said that he would have goat cheese, spinach, onions, and egg whites with green tea.
Oh. Mm-hmm.
They also shared the two cast members who were always there the earliest.

Speaker 1 Oh, let me guess. Okay.
Kate and Phyllis. Leslie.

Speaker 1 And Phyllis. Okay.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I looked at the call sheets. Leslie, Phyllis, me, and Kate were always called in at 5 a.m.
Mm-hmm. Okay.
The four of us. I clearly didn't make the early list.

Speaker 1 But Leslie would order his breakfast at 4.45. Wow.
Yeah. Sergio and Alan also did a huge lunch with multiple meat, fish, veggie choices, salad bar, dessert bar.

Speaker 1 But they said there was one item they featured just on a whim at the dessert table. And it became incredibly popular.
And if they wouldn't have it, people would like, get like annoyed.

Speaker 1 They'd be like, where is it? Can I guess? Yeah. Was it the warm chocolate chip cookie bar? Yes.
Yes. It was the chocolate chip cookie cake.
And they served it like hot and melted and kind of gooey.

Speaker 1 It was so good. You guys, the chocolate chip cookie cake was Steve Corell's like kryptonite.
I don't know. This guy would eat so healthy, but he had to eat this chocolate chip cookie cake.

Speaker 1 It's his one trait. But literally, they said they didn't think much about it.
They made it one time. And then everyone was like, where is it? Where is it? They had to make it like every day.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So now I have to talk about Peter and Vartan. They were the snack masters.
They had kind of like a full kitchen right on the set, right outside the Dunder Mifflin bullpen. Yep.

Speaker 1 You know, they had a fridge. You could have cereal.
They had milk. You could make your own sandwich, but they would also have a little food bar.
And here's what they had to share.

Speaker 1 Peter talked about how he had been in the business forever. He also said, I thought this was kind of funny, that our cast, we were tea obsessed.
He had hundreds of different types of teas.

Speaker 1 And you might have noticed that I didn't make Sergio and Alan's breakfast list. Because you would never eat an egg in the morning.
Because Peter and Vartan got doughnuts every morning.

Speaker 1 So I would go get a donut from Peter and Vartan. Also, BJ liked the Porto's coffee cake.
And then Peter said sometimes he would make you and I sandwiches. He would.

Speaker 1 And he said he loved doing it, and he would put them on a porcelain plate and bring them to us. I'm crying again.
I know. I know.
He took such good care of us.

Speaker 1 I can't explain to you

Speaker 1 like the care with which he would make us a sandwich.

Speaker 1 It's so silly and simple, but he would, he'd put it on a porcelain plate and he'd always like garnish it with some cute little like fruit or like a little like he'd cut pickle to a shape. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It really was. It was like your grandpa made you a sandwich.
It really was. And he felt so loved.
He was so happy to do it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he said that he would make you a tuna fish sandwich and he'd make me ham and cheese. I cried through this commentary, Jenna.

Speaker 1 I laughed so hard because Peter and Vartan give each other like such a hard time lovingly, and they're so funny. Alan called them the Middle Eastern odd couple

Speaker 1 because Peter is from Greece and Vartan is from Iraq. They had a hilarious banter, the two of them.
They also talked about their infamous 10 a.m. hot snack.
Hot snack. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 Peter said they like to mix it up every day. He said on Mondays, for example, there'd be tacos and burritos.
One of the most popular hot snack items was Alband de Gas soup.

Speaker 1 Well, they talked about that, but they said they're turkey chili. Oh! They said their turkey chili, they had to serve twice a week.
People wanted it. They loved it.

Speaker 1 Ed Helms in particular loved the turkey chili and he came up with a little tip. What is it? Ed, you know, they had garnishes on the side for the chili.
They had shredded cheese and they had onions.

Speaker 1 Ed would put the raw onions at the bottom of his bowl, add the hot turkey chili on top, and the heat from the chili would caramelize the onions at the bottom. Wow.

Speaker 1 It became a thing.

Speaker 1 So, and much like our Dundramifflin counterparts, they said the cast and crew had their favorite pizza places to order from if we went to overtime and we got second meal. Steve loved Mulberry's pizza,

Speaker 1 and we all loved Baroni's pizza.

Speaker 1 Yes, it was a delight you guys i just have to tell you we loved these men so much i was lucky enough to work with sergio again when i guest starred on mindy's show never have i ever she still wants sergio on her projects it was so awesome these guys were our family yeah and they took such good care of us and if you have ever wondered why the only thing my dad talked about was the food when he visited set

Speaker 1 listen to this commentary I loved that. I loved it too.
And I know I went on and on, but I had to share it. I hope everyone else found it interesting because I loved that trip down memory lane.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Angela. You're welcome.
All right. Shall we get into this episode? I guess we can.
I will pull myself together. Yes.
This episode starts with Jim and Pam on the phone.

Speaker 1 Pam is kind of mad because nobody congratulated her on her engagement. And Jim says, yeah, I didn't tell anyone.

Speaker 1 And then he's like, let's tell him. And he puts Pam on speakerphone and it goes, I think, exactly how Jim thought it would go.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it ends with Michael arriving and hearing the news and tackling Jim to the floor. We got a fan question from Kyle T and Peyton M.
How was the stunt done where Michael knocks Jim over with a hug?

Speaker 1 Also, John's face is just amazing. You know, that is a really hard thing to do to know you're going to be tackled, but keep your body relaxed.
And not like, wince. Yeah.
Not expect the tackle.

Speaker 1 Well, I wasn't there. I was backstage on a phone, so I didn't see it go down.
Angela, do you remember? Was there like a mattress or something that they landed on? There is a big blue squishy thing.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? A big blue square. It looked like a gymnastics kind of mat, right? Yeah.
But it was so funny.

Speaker 1 I have to imagine John lost it because John did not do well in scenes like that, especially with Steve. Like, I don't.
My memory of it is they didn't do it very many times. Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, now we're into the episode. It's Ethics Day.
Holly has passed out a form everyone has to fill out. She's going to be taking this seriously.
She is.

Speaker 1 She explains that she is going to be running her first meeting.

Speaker 1 But don't worry. We talked about this with Amy Ryan.
Michael's going to help her out and they're going to start it off with their version of let's get physical

Speaker 1 with headbands and dancing and a boom box. Jenna, I worked in corporate America.
I have been in human resources seminars

Speaker 1 that we had to go to.

Speaker 1 I'm telling you, they had skits. What?

Speaker 1 When I watched this, I had such a flood of memories coming back of sitting in a tiny little conference room when I worked at this company. And our human resources department, there were two people.

Speaker 1 They would come in and act out skits of what's inappropriate. We had one guy, his name was Tom.

Speaker 1 And we had a gal, her name was Susan, and he'd be like, Susan, that skirt looks really nice nice on you today. Hey, time to party.
And then Susan would do a face like, huh?

Speaker 1 And then they'd freeze. And then Tom would say, what was inappropriate in this moment? And we'd all have to raise our hands and be like, he was kind of gross about her skirt.

Speaker 1 I only had to watch like produced videos of

Speaker 1 things. I've never seen a live presentation.
Oh, no, I watch skits. We had a fan question about this scene.
We did. From Patricia Patricia B.

Speaker 1 She said, I'm wondering if some of the younger office fans even know the song that Holly and Michael are performing. She wants to know, Angela, did your kids watch this one with you?

Speaker 1 Did you have to explain this song parody? Isabel watched it with me. She didn't ask about the song.
She just thought it was funny. She probably thinks we made it up.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this was, I guess, for our younger listeners, a very famous song by Olivia Newton-John, Let's Get Physical.

Speaker 1 And the music video was like her in like an aerobics class

Speaker 1 singing and dancing with a headband. Jane Fonda had like these workout videos at the time too.
This was like a little trend. Oh, yeah.
Sexy working out.

Speaker 1 But your sexy workout included tights, leg warmers,

Speaker 1 high tops, leotard, headband, wristband. Yeah.
It was a whole thing. It was.

Speaker 1 I remember it well. Well, Holly begins her ethics meeting by explaining that there's been some misconduct.
She's clearly talking about Ryan.

Speaker 1 Who's been hired again? It's so hilarious. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 And then she starts going through the results of the quiz. Yeah.
Pretty much. She's got this binder.
Yeah. And she's got to go through the binder.
The HR binder. Yeah.

Speaker 1 We had a fan question from Peyton M. In the conference room scene, did Creed and Meredith actually break when Stanley said the meeting was a waste of time? Or was it scripted for them to laugh?

Speaker 1 Well, I looked at the script. It was scripted.
The script said, people laugh a lot.

Speaker 1 That was the direction in the script.

Speaker 1 So the meeting isn't going so great. And Michael's like, you're losing them.
Yeah. She pulls Holly aside.

Speaker 1 You are losing them. They expect a lot.
Yeah, it's really sweet. He's trying to help her in this meeting because he really wants her to succeed.
So he says, let's get rid of the binder.

Speaker 1 This is your opportunity to speak up without any repercussions. He's like, guys, what are some things maybe you've done at work to waste time? What have you done?

Speaker 1 Anything or anything you want to share? Yeah, you have immunity. Go for it.

Speaker 1 Well, during this time, Michael confesses that he didn't work for five days when he discovered YouTube. That made me laugh so hard.

Speaker 1 He said he watched Cookie Monster sings Chocolate Rain about a thousand times. Did you go watch it? I had to know.
Of course. Here's the thing.
What? Chocolate Rain,

Speaker 1 according to its Wikipedia page, was a song by American singer Tay Zonde. I went and watched Tay's last night.
Oh, you did? I did. You watched it as well.
Yeah. Yes.

Speaker 1 So he wrote this song and he uploaded a video to YouTube. It was four minutes, 52 seconds long.
He uploaded it, everyone, because I know you want to know. April 22nd, 2007.
I remember it went viral.

Speaker 1 Viral. Like before things went viral.
It was ranked the hottest viral video of summer 2007, and it was awarded the 2008 YouTube Award in the category of music.

Speaker 1 So this song then became the subject of like parodies, remixes, tributes. It was everywhere.
Even Cookie Monster. Not Cookie Monster.
What?

Speaker 1 We made that up. There was no Cookie Monster Sings Chocolate Rain.
They wrote that. And after the episode aired, people made them.
Ah!

Speaker 1 No way! I didn't know that! Isn't that crazy? That is crazy. You know, I did go to every version you could imagine of this song.

Speaker 1 I looked it up, and I did notice the one where Cookie Monster is singing it. The first comment said, who else is here because of Michael Scott?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 exactly.

Speaker 1 Well, Michael has opened the door to confession time and people are just letting it fly.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 the big confession comes from Meredith,

Speaker 1 who says that she has been having a six-year affair with the hammer mill rep in exchange for discounts on our supplies

Speaker 1 and also outback steakhouse gift certificates. Bruce Myers.

Speaker 1 Bruce Myers and Meredith. Six years.
Now, here's something. Wasn't there in that previous episode we finally landed the hammer mill rep

Speaker 1 when they went to that big conference and it was only a few.

Speaker 1 Remember? I think there's a little continuity catch here. Continuity, error.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So she's been sleeping with him for six years, but we only just landed him like two years ago. I don't know, Meredith.
Show Bible. Show Bible.
Sort it out, guys. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Holly is troubled. Oh, yeah.
Holly is like, this is a serious ethics violation. I have to report this.
Jenna, there was one other confession that rattled someone else. What?

Speaker 1 Ryan made a confession, and Kevin is like, what?

Speaker 1 This is the beginning of the runner. Sam, can you play it?

Speaker 3 Last year, you guys were riding me really hard for the website, and I just peeled out my Z3 and I knocked the mirror off somebody's car. I never said a thing.
Wait.

Speaker 3 What?

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 Kevin's like, what? And then immediately after this conference room scene, Kevin approaches Ryan in the kitchen and confronts him.

Speaker 3 You knocked the mirror off of my car.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Isn't that messed up? Yeah. That guy did a lot of things I'm not proud of.

Speaker 3 Wait.

Speaker 3 When you say

Speaker 3 that guy, do you mean you? I mean the guy I used to be.

Speaker 3 I'm Ryan 2.0. And if it makes you feel any better, that guy did a lot of messed up stuff to me, too.
No, you mean that you did a lot of messed up stuff to you.

Speaker 3 Look, I feel you.

Speaker 3 Okay? That guy took no responsibility for his actions.

Speaker 3 But are you gonna pay for my mirror? If I have to answer for everything that guy did,

Speaker 3 I'm never gonna move on.

Speaker 3 It was like $200.

Speaker 3 We're never gonna get what we need from that guy.

Speaker 1 You know my love of Ryan in this rewatch, and I am so sad that did not make it in the episode, but I am so glad it exists. I know.
I showed it to Sam, and Sam was like, I know these people.

Speaker 1 I know these people.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a good example of Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 But yeah, so Kevin gets Ryan back by putting his sunglasses, his really nice sunglasses, in the toaster oven. Amazing.
Melts them.

Speaker 1 But that was Kevin 1.0. Yeah, he can't be responsible for what what that guy did.
That's right.

Speaker 1 So that was the Ryan Kevin runner that got deleted because we just ran out of time, but I thought it was so great. It's so good.

Speaker 1 So now we have the scene where Michael and Holly are going to meet privately with Meredith to discuss her liaison. Yes.

Speaker 1 You know, Michael is trying very hard to help Meredith say the things she needs to say to get out of trouble. Yeah.
Meredith is not getting it. She's not getting it.
At all.

Speaker 1 And Kate is so funny in this scene. So funny.
Well, we do have a classic gym prank. We get a gym prank.
Yeah, it's been a bit. And I thought it was so funny.

Speaker 1 And I can tell that John and Rain were having such a good time. Just because we know them.
Yeah. You gave John that prop, that stopwatch.
He's loving that stopwatch. He's loving it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Dwight had said in the conference room that he doesn't do anything personal at work. He wastes no time.
Wastes no time. And so Jim's going to show him.

Speaker 1 He's going to like time every single thing he does. Well, right about now is when we would have gone to see Pam at art school.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to tell you about it. Okay.
So Pam and her classmates, they get to class and there's a note on the door, no class today. It's canceled.
Canceled.

Speaker 1 So her friends are like, let's go get drinks. And Pam's like, I can't.
And her friend Alex, who was played by Rich Summer, says, what do you have to do? You're supposed to be in class right now.

Speaker 1 We know you don't have plans. So they get her to go to this tiki bar for a little day drinking.
And I totally remember shooting this, Angela. We're all drinking out of this big, giant volcano bowl.

Speaker 1 There's a flame. It's on fire.
Yeah. We had to have a safety meeting about it.
And in the scene, two of the other art students, they're trying to decode this text message.

Speaker 1 They're wondering what to text back. Well, it's like a guy, right? So she's like wanting to text a guy back, but not seem like too into him.
You know how you have to write the perfect text back

Speaker 1 to someone you're into, but you don't want to seem too desperate. Well, Pam is spiraling.

Speaker 1 Remember, I said in the other episode that we purposely cast people who would seem younger and hipper than Pam, so she would be this fish out of water in art school. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, she's kind of spiraling about that, and she has this great, crazy monologue that she blurts out. Sam, will you play the Pam tiki bar scene for me?

Speaker 2 You put a wink at the end. Does that mean something?

Speaker 3 It means he's a dork.

Speaker 1 So, how do I write back, you know, showing him that I'm also a dork?

Speaker 3 He knows.

Speaker 1 Don't ask me. I don't even know what I'm doing here.

Speaker 3 I'm like way older than you guys.

Speaker 1 I mean, like, I have a fiancé and I had like a 10-year plan. And, like, is graphic design even art? At this point, I thought that I would be married and running my own art company.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 1 I would just put like big LOL, little LOL, winky face. Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 Okay. I thought that was so interesting.
We just got a window into what Pam thought her life would be. She says at this point, she thought she would be married and running her own art company.

Speaker 1 What does she mean by art company? I don't know. It sounds like something like

Speaker 1 a kid. Kidth grader.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like someday I'm going to own an art company. Does that mean she sells art supplies? Yeah.
What does she mean by that? I don't know. I thought it was so, it was such a window into Pam.

Speaker 1 I thought. I did too.
And, you know, it goes on to show that she drank the whole volcano herself, basically. Yeah.
There are more scenes at this bar. She gets really tipsy.

Speaker 1 But then she has this really peppy talking head where she says, if she were in Scranton right now, she'd be an alcoholic, but she's not. She's in New York, so she's a moody artist.
She loves New York.

Speaker 1 Well, I was really bummed that these scenes got cut because one of the art students, the guy who you hear trying to help the girl with her text message, was played by one of my very good friends in real life, John Cabrera.

Speaker 1 You might know him because he was a longtime cast member on Gilmore Girls. He played Brian Fuller.
He was the bass player in Lane's band. So we filmed all of these scenes at Pam's Art School.

Speaker 1 They never made it into an episode. He doesn't even have a credit on IMDb for being on the office

Speaker 1 because all his scenes got cut, but we had the best time. Jenna, have you ever had a volcano? No.

Speaker 1 Have you? Once. What? Once.
I thought we made that up. That's a real thing.
Is it on fire? Yes, it's certainly. Sam is nodding like, how many have you had, Sam?

Speaker 1 Sorry, that was the most aggressive I've ever. You are like.
Yeah, it's a staple of the tiki bar. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I've had one.

Speaker 1 That's all you'll ever need to have. I had one at a bar in Manhattan Beach for a friend's birthday.
We got the volcano because my friend's birthday, you know, we were like 25 years old.

Speaker 1 It's a huge, huge bowl. Okay.
It comes on fire. Okay.
All these different straws in it.

Speaker 1 It's usually a mixture of like pineapple or grapefruit or lime juice, maple syrup, several different types of rums. Okay.
I felt real gross the next day. And what's so funny is I had Pam's experience.

Speaker 1 Like you're just all drinking it. You can't tell who's had more or what because there's all these straws flopping out of it.
And the photos from this evening are real special.

Speaker 1 We all decided to see if we could do the splits. Oh.

Speaker 1 It was one of those nights. I didn't do the splits.
No, you do it. I do it.

Speaker 1 So volcano, guys, tread lightly. Am I too old to have this experience? I think so.
Damn it. You won't feel good the next day.
I missed my chance. I started drinking late in life.
I know. I really did.

Speaker 1 I think it's okay that you navigated your life without having the volcano experience. I don't know.
I'm having some FOMO.

Speaker 1 Well, now Michael is going to invite Holly to lunch.

Speaker 1 Because it's okay if like two attractive people go to lunch, you know, they work together, they're attractive.

Speaker 1 They can eat lunch. They can eat lunch.
It's not an official date. And there was a deleted Michael talking head that if it was an official date, Holly would know because it would go like this.

Speaker 3 No, this is not an official date. When it is an official date, she will be aware of it.
There will be a rose.

Speaker 3 There will be music and dancing.

Speaker 3 Bottle of red, bottle of white,

Speaker 3 bottle of water. I have to drink more water.

Speaker 3 Some whispered conversation.

Speaker 3 Some giggling.

Speaker 3 a little wine.

Speaker 3 We head back to her place.

Speaker 3 I will skip ahead to protect her dignity,

Speaker 3 but

Speaker 3 we make hardcore love.

Speaker 3 And then we fall asleep on her lanai to the sound of the full moon.

Speaker 3 And then

Speaker 3 chocolate chip pancakes.

Speaker 1 Okay, I haven't had a volcano, but I've had that date. You've had that date.
I've had that date. That's a good date.

Speaker 1 I just want a shirt that says hardcore love.

Speaker 1 And you know what? You got to fall asleep to the sound of the moon. You do.

Speaker 1 You do.

Speaker 1 Oh, well, he suggests that they go to Cooper's restaurant, and I've got some good information to share about that. So why don't we take a break and we'll come back.
Great.

Speaker 1 The holidays are coming up. That means a lot of people travel over the holidays, right? A lot.
I mean, Thanksgiving is the most traveled holiday in the United States, I believe.

Speaker 1 I believe that is true. Yes.
Okay. Well, how about this idea? While you're away, why don't you host your place on Airbnb and make some moolah?

Speaker 1 And then also, you're going to have some money for holiday shopping. How about that? I like how you transitioned that into shopping, lady.

Speaker 1 Well, here is who this is a perfect fit for.

Speaker 1 If you're someone who travels frequently, if you have extra space, maybe you're someone that has a seasonal home, or maybe you always go away at the same time of year for like a family tradition or work event.

Speaker 1 This is a practical way to earn money while you're doing all those things. Your home might be worth more than you think.
Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host.

Speaker 1 Jenna, guess what? What? The wait is over because Macy's biggest deals of the year are on.

Speaker 1 It is the best time to get ahead of your holiday shopping so you don't have to have any of that scrambling and stress.

Speaker 1 Well, Macy's Black Friday sale is officially on and it's really the easiest way to check everyone off your list. And you know, they have something for everyone.

Speaker 1 For example, they have 20 to 40% off Lego. They have small appliances.
They have clothes. They have accessories, perfume, makeup.
I mean, it's all there.

Speaker 1 And when you buy your gifts at Macy's, you can round up for BBBS.

Speaker 1 100% of funds will go to Big Brothers Big Sisters to help create one-to-one mentoring relationships that ignite the power and promise of youth.

Speaker 1 Did you know Macy's has raised over $13 million for Big Brothers Big Sisters to support 280,000 mentoring moments? That is wonderful.

Speaker 1 The Macy's Black Friday sale is happening November 10th through November 29th. Shop now at Macy's.com or or in store.

Speaker 1 All right, we are back. Michael and Holly have gone to lunch.
We got fan questions from Kelly W, Sammy B, and Carolyn P. What is the restaurant that Holly and Michael went to?

Speaker 1 Angela, you saw the outside shot of this restaurant. Yeah, I've been there in real life.
It is a real restaurant in Scranton called Cooper's Seafood House.

Speaker 1 And we did not go to Cooper's. So we used a shot of the outside.
The interior, I got all the scoop from James Apedia. Jamesopedia is back.
And Amy Ryan said they did an amazing job. Amazing, right?

Speaker 1 I looked at pictures online of the real Coopers and I compared them to screenshots because that's what I do now, I guess. Yeah.
Is that? Yeah. And we really, congratulations to our set designers.

Speaker 1 They did a great job redressing this. What did Jamesapedia have? Jamesopedia said that we shot the interior at Clancy's Crab Broiler in Glendale, California.
That we started shooting at 8 a.m.

Speaker 1 that day. And there was a note on the call sheet that said, the restaurant will be open for business at 11 a.m.

Speaker 1 So they had three hours

Speaker 1 to film all of those restaurant scenes.

Speaker 1 And I asked him, I said, now, when it says they're going to open back up at 11 a.m., does that mean we have to be done filming and get all our stuff out? Because we changed the look of the restaurant.

Speaker 1 And he said, what we would normally do is we would get in there really, really early and dress it, do our scenes, and get out as much as we can by 11 o'clock.

Speaker 1 But they would go back the next day to like do a full cleanup. So the patrons that day ate in a kind of hybrid restaurant of Clancy's crab broiler slash Cooper Seafood.
Say that 10 times fast.

Speaker 1 I could barely see Lance's crab broiler.

Speaker 1 Lance's crab broiler.

Speaker 1 Well, here's a little something about Cooper's. All right.
Brian Baumgartner and I went there in 2007 in Scranton.

Speaker 1 If you go to Cooper's Seafood House website online, there are a bunch of photos in their gallery section of Brian and I. I saw them.
One in particular, I am barefoot and standing on top of a table.

Speaker 1 Oh, I missed that one. It's a good one.

Speaker 1 it, I'll put it in our stories. Clearly, Brian and I were there to have a good time.
And we did. We had a blast.
Well, this scene originally started with Michael ordering for he and Holly.

Speaker 1 Yes, he was going to be fancy man on a date. He said this restaurant was business romantic.
Here's what he ordered. We'll have the chowders to start,

Speaker 1 then the lobster feast for two, and do you have a house red?

Speaker 1 And then he wants you to know, house makes a great red. Yes, I feel like, where did he, where did he come up with that? He heard that somewhere.
Someone was like, the house wine is very good.

Speaker 1 The house makes a great red. And now he's like, he thinks the house is the winery.
Yes. Well, Holly says she just wants a chef salad, no dressing.
With an iced tea.

Speaker 1 Yeah, she's not going to have any house red. And then the waitress says to Michael, do you still want the two lobsters? And Michael says, yes, yes, I do.
Because now he's a little embarrassed.

Speaker 1 So later in this scene, when you see Michael and he's got two lobsters and a big bowl of soup and a red wine, this is why. Yes, it's at 13 minutes, 44 seconds.
You'll see how he ordered double.

Speaker 1 Incidentally, on the Cooper's menu, there is a recurring Tuesday special called Twin Tails and a Cup of Soup. And it is two lobster tails and a bread bowl of soup.

Speaker 1 And I am dying to know if this Tuesday special predated this episode of The Office or if they created this as a special after Michael ordered two lobster tails and a bowl of soup.

Speaker 1 I don't know how to find out. Well, we'll have to go.
Anyone? Coopers, anyone? Yeah. Well, here's the thing.
We are going to Scranton. We are.
I can't wait.

Speaker 1 Should we order two lobster tails and a bowl of soup and the house bread? Yes.

Speaker 1 We're going to do so much eating in Scranton. I know.
Like the bulk of our trip there is just eating our way through Scranton. I know.
Well, this lunch, it just is not going well.

Speaker 1 They cannot get on the same page about what to do with Meredith. They can't.
Michael was trying to just connect with Holly, get to know her. He asks her, you know, about where she grew up, Des Moines.

Speaker 1 We find out she's from Des Moines, Iowa,

Speaker 1 right?

Speaker 1 Holly is being business. This is a business lunch, and she feels gross about Meredith.
They have this couplet of dialogue that really sums it up.

Speaker 1 Holly says, I'm saying that Meredith's behavior is unethical and a little icky, and I don't think I want to work in an environment where that sort of conduct is tolerated.

Speaker 1 Michael says, well, you have to tolerate a lot when you're a part of a family. And Holly delivers such a low blow.
If you know Michael, she says, it's not a family, it's a workplace.

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh, the look on his face. Like,

Speaker 1 how do they come back from this? Meanwhile, back at the office, Jim is really trying to trap Dwight into wasting time. He's trying to get him to have personal conversations.

Speaker 1 He tries to explain an episode of Battlestar Galactica to Andy, purposely getting everything wrong and inserting all kinds of other characters. All kinds of other characters.

Speaker 1 He says it's like the crazy monsters and stuff. There's Klingons and Wookiees.
He says there's a guy named Dumbledore. They're trying to get a ring back to Mordor.

Speaker 1 This is triggering every button in Dwight. I loved Rain in this scene where he just was.

Speaker 1 And I also just loved the way John would hold up the stopwatch. Oh, yeah.
They were doing this beautiful, like, comedic dance. It was so good.
It was so good.

Speaker 1 You know, we had a fan point out, Lindsay H.

Speaker 1 said, I am so impressed with the camera focus when Jim is talking to Andy about Battlestar Galactica slash Star Wars slash Harry Potter slash Lord of the Rings slash Star Wars.

Speaker 1 Anyway, she says the camera focuses on Jim, then Dwight, and back and forth so quickly and flawlessly. She just wanted to give kudos to our camera operators.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because I mean, John and Rain are doing this dance, but they're in it with the camera operator. And that was flawless.
I agree, Lindsay. Me too.
We also had a fan catch from Justin S.

Speaker 1 Jenna. I know you and Phyllis are both from St.
Louis, and I'm a big Cardinals fan myself, and I couldn't help but notice that there is a free bird on Phyllis's desk over Dwight's shoulder.

Speaker 1 And I was just wondering, how did the free bird get there? Guys, I texted Phyllis about it. Yeah.
We don't know.

Speaker 1 She said, oh, maybe that was when David Freese and Matt Holiday came to visit. And I was like, no, they haven't come to visit yet.
I'll tell you guys that story later. That was amazing.

Speaker 1 You guys were so excited. And I know they hadn't visited yet because Ellie was with us when they visited.

Speaker 1 So Phyllis and I went back and forth and she's like, I didn't bring it in. She said, I don't know who put it there.
I didn't put it there. Phyllis didn't put it there.
We don't know who put it there.

Speaker 1 Well, Justin, I'm sorry. I'm going to try to get to the bottom of it.
You know, answer pending. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Jim has a talking head that Dwight hasn't stopped working for a second. He even sneezed with his eyes open, which Jim was like, I didn't know that was possible.
You guys, he peed in a

Speaker 1 soda bottle. He peed under his desk.
I mean, he is not going to waste any time.

Speaker 1 I had to know if you can sneeze with your eyes open. You can't.

Speaker 1 You can. What?

Speaker 1 Yeah, MythBusters did a whole story on it. Mythbusters.
And I watched it late last night when I suddenly had to know.

Speaker 1 We both went on two random tangents. Just wait for mine.
Is yours about the average amount of time someone has sex? Because I went on that tangent. Yes!

Speaker 1 Yes!

Speaker 1 Oh my God! Okay, because there's all of a sudden, Dwight is like, not wasting time, not wasting time. And then he comes back and Jim is like, 19 minutes and 48 seconds.

Speaker 1 What were you up to? And Dwight is like, none of your business, basically.

Speaker 1 And then it cuts to Angela Martin buttoning her blouse. Did you read the research on Business Insider? I read several articles at like midnight last night.
Me too on the subject. Our search history.

Speaker 1 Oh my God. Delete our search history.
First of all, the one research I read about was fascinating because they gave 500 couples stopwatches. It is as awkward as it sounds.
They had to hit start

Speaker 1 and stop. I don't know how we talk about this, but I don't know.
Maybe parents, if you're listening with your kids. Earmuffs for 30 seconds.
Earmuffs.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they had to record their sex time over a four-week period. Yeah.
And they had to press start on the stopwatch at the moment of penetration.

Speaker 1 Oh, God. And they had to press stop at ejaculation.

Speaker 1 We read the same article. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 You know what? I found amazing is the range was from 33 seconds to 44 minutes. Yeah.
That's a huge,

Speaker 1 huge variation. It is.

Speaker 1 And then what was really interesting to me was I read this whole article by a sex therapist who, after doing a bunch of research, broke down the ideal amount of penetration time in a sex act.

Speaker 1 I mean, this is insane. I told Lee all last night everything I'd read.
He's like, How are you sharing this on office ladies? I was like, I don't know, but I found it so fascinating. I know.

Speaker 1 So, what she found was that in serving the person being penetrated,

Speaker 1 that their ideal amount of penetration time in sex

Speaker 1 was anywhere from five to 11 minutes. But all of sex, they all wanted more than just penetration.

Speaker 1 So she deemed that, like, the ideal amount of sex encompassing more than just that moment would be around 19 minutes and that it should consist of 10 minutes of foreplay and nine minutes of actual intercourse that she felt this was the bullseye after all of her research.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, something I discovered in my research is that of these 500 couples surveyed, the average time was 5.4 minutes.

Speaker 1 And this was true across continents. I mean, literally, it's a global thing.
And this got me to thinking, 19 minutes and 48 seconds. Yeah.
I did the math.

Speaker 1 I think it took them six minutes to get down to the warehouse. Six minutes to walk down a set of stairs? Or take the elevator.
It's not close.

Speaker 1 They have to go in the elevator or stairs, and they have to go down the corridor through the warehouse to that back room, open it up. All right, so six minutes to get there.

Speaker 1 They need six minutes back. That leaves them six minutes in the middle.
Oh. I think they had six minutes to shag.

Speaker 1 I mean, I think what we've discovered in all our research is you can have a really satisfying shag in six minutes.

Speaker 1 By the way, this article went on to the evolution of sex. Why is there thrusting?

Speaker 1 It was fascinating. I was fascinated.
Oh,

Speaker 1 the things we have learned

Speaker 1 and shared with you all. So you're welcome.

Speaker 1 Well, let's get back to this Michael Holly story, okay?

Speaker 1 This whole lunch has really strained things between Michael and Holly. When he gets back, he has a talking head where he says he won't even ride the elevator with her.

Speaker 1 And then he throws her leftovers in the trash. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then up in the kitchen, he's pouring himself some coffee. She puts her cup out.
Not only does he not pour coffee in her cup, he takes the whole pot and walks out of the kitchen.

Speaker 1 She called Dundromifflin a workplace. And it is his family.
And you do not do that. You do not.

Speaker 1 If Holly wants to use the copier now, she's going to have to wait for Michael to copy a plaque off the wall first.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, Holly has a talking head. Things are tense.
People are suspicious of her. Her best friend in the office won't even speak to her.
So now we have a little window into Holly.

Speaker 1 She really sees Michael as her best friend. Now, Angela, in the script, there was a scene here where Michael calls Toby.
Yes. For help with Holly.
Yes, it's in the deleted script.

Speaker 1 Oh, guys, it's so good

Speaker 1 because Toby basically says at the end of all of this, oh, well, Michael, I think Holly's doing the the right thing.

Speaker 1 And in fact, now that you've told me, I'm obligated to report this Meredith incident to HR as well. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But that's how desperate Michael is, is he's going to call Toby, who I guess is still in a hospital in Costa Rica. And he's still not nice to him.
He calls Toby for help, but he's still not nice.

Speaker 1 This is not the last HR rep that's going to be involved. Kendall from corporate

Speaker 1 has called, and Holly's going to come in Michael's office, and they're going to discuss it with Kendall. Yeah.
We had a fan question from Megan Q. Who voices Kendall from corporate HR?

Speaker 1 Kendall was played by John Hartman. Now, the role of Kendall was first mentioned in the episode The Job when David Wallace mentions his dislike for the HR rep Kendall during Jim's job interview.

Speaker 1 in New York. Wow, that's a major callback.
I know, but we also brought him up again in weight loss, I guess. And here's the thing, Kendall is going to come back two more times this season.

Speaker 1 He comes back in person in stress relief and company picnic. He's always played by John Hartman.
You might recognize John.

Speaker 1 He had roles in Mad Men, Arrested Development, The Good Place, Blackish, Space Force, and Monk. Ah!

Speaker 1 Of course. There it is.

Speaker 1 Well, you think Kendall is going to get Holly's back,

Speaker 1 right? And agree with her. But instead, he just shuts her down, says he doesn't really see this as a huge infraction.
And what she needed to do was to get everyone through that binder.

Speaker 1 That was her job. Yeah.

Speaker 1 We just needed you to get signatures. Are you able to get signatures or not? Because every other branch got signatures.
And I think Michael feels badly for her in this moment. I feel badly for her.

Speaker 1 I do too. She's doing the right thing and corporate doesn't have her back.
So Holly is just gonna go out to the bullpen and say, hey guys, I have to finish this ethics training.

Speaker 1 She has to finish reading from the binder so she can say she did it. No one is giving her any respect.

Speaker 1 Well, Michael's gonna step up. Yeah.
Because he does feel bad for her. So he goes out there and he goes, a pyronquer.

Speaker 1 He loses it. It's so funny.
Everyone goes in, she reads from the binder. And the look on Michael's face as she's like like reading from the boring binder, he's in love again.

Speaker 1 Well, I don't think he ever fell out of love. They had their first spat.
I guess they did. Yeah, because Holly looks appreciative.
They're both like, oh, okay, we're back.

Speaker 1 We're going to get through this. Yeah.
At the very end of this episode, we have a tag.

Speaker 1 Everyone's in the break room. They're eating steak that was clearly provided by Meredith.
We had a fan question from Kelly W. Okay, Kelly, what is it?

Speaker 1 During the last scene, when everyone's eating steak in the break room, what is everyone actually eating? Is it prop food or actually real expensive steak?

Speaker 1 And Savi A wants to know, Angela, what were you eating since your character is a vegetarian? I was eating potatoes. That's what it looked like to me.
I was eating potatoes.

Speaker 1 That's something we thought about. One of the things that Peter and Vartan shared is that our prop food was amazingly good food.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 That they didn't give us like kind of crappy food to eat in scenes.

Speaker 1 And Peter and Vartan would work with props, but I would have to think that Phil Shea and his team got us really good food from a restaurant. That was going to be my guess.

Speaker 1 Whenever I ate food in a scene, it was delicious. Yeah.
So it was probably some really good steak. Yeah.
What a day at work. Hey, guys, come in and eat these steak and ribs for an hour.

Speaker 1 Angela, you can have these potatoes. Sorry, Ange.

Speaker 1 Well, there you have it. That's business ethics.
Yeah. Thank you so much to Amy Ryan.
And thank you to James O'Carey for giving me the lowdown on Coopers.

Speaker 1 And thank you to BJ Novak for pitching Peter and Vartan and Sergio and Alan to do the DVD commentary. That was just so wonderful.
If you guys love the show, you'll love these commentaries.

Speaker 1 Well, I think on that note, we might go have a volcano. And I hope all of you guys have some hardcore love in your life for approximately 19 minutes or an average of six minutes.
That would be fine.

Speaker 1 See you next week. Bye guys.

Speaker 1 Thank you for listening to Office Ladies. Office Ladies is produced by Earwolf, Jenna Fisher, and Angela Kinsey.
Our show is executive produced by Cody Fisher. Our producer is Cassie Jerkins.

Speaker 1 Our sound engineer is Sam Kiefer. And our associate producer is Ainsley Bubico.
Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton. For ad-free versions of Office Ladies, go to stitcherpremium.com.

Speaker 1 For a free one-month trial of Stitcher Premium, use code Office.