All About Phyllis Lapin

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I'm Jenna Fisher and I'm Angela Kinsey.

We were on the office together and we're best friends.

And now we're doing the Ultimate Office Lovers podcast just for you.

Each week we will dive deeper into the world of the office with exclusive interviews, behind-the-scenes details, and lots of BFF stories.

We're the Office Lady 6.0.

Hello.

Hi there.

Aw.

I'm wearing one of my mom's really old necklaces from back in the day, like back in like the 70s.

Really?

That looks brand new.

It's not.

It looks, wow.

Isn't that cool?

It's gorgeous.

It's long.

It hangs well low below the ladies.

Yeah, it's like a long.

What do they call those?

I don't know, but I normally don't wear them.

Am I a a certain age now that I'm wearing the long necklace?

I mean, it goes almost to my belly button.

No, I went through a phase where I wore all-long necklaces for a while.

Oh, okay.

I just kind of liked it.

Well, it's a nice look.

Thank you.

I have got it hung up on a few things.

Like I bent over and it hung up on the handle of the drawer.

Yes, yes, exactly.

Okay.

Well, I wore it in honor of this episode today.

I wore a statement necklace in honor of Phyllis.

Oh, I love that lady.

Today is all about Phyllis Lappen, and we have a great episode for you.

And I'm really excited for this one because we reached out to Phyllis and she gave us a bunch of good nuggets about playing Phyllis.

It was so lovely to hear from her.

And I loved the questions everyone sent in.

They're always so thoughtful.

Well, as you know, we like to kick off these episodes with a little show Bible summary.

And you know what?

The character of Phyllis was really fun, but her show Bible section is very short.

Oh, it's only three pages.

I think it might be the shortest one.

Wow.

Yeah.

But here we go.

Let's hear it.

It says Phyllis Vance, formerly Lappen, is a sales rep.

Her address per the art department, because we never saw this on screen, was 104 Kimberly Circle, Scranton, Pennsylvania.

Now, I don't know if that's also where Bob Vance lives.

We don't know.

Sounds nice.

Yeah, we don't know if it's their home together or not.

Yes.

Phyllis drives a maroon Chevy Malibu.

She is a member of the party planning committee.

She's Lutheran.

And then here's what's interesting about the show Bible for Phyllis.

We know a lot about her life when she was younger, and we know a lot about her

sex life.

I didn't know how to do that.

You paused and I didn't know where you were going.

So these are the main categories that we know about Phyllis.

For example, Per Michael, her nickname in high school was Easy Rider.

Oh my gosh.

But he also makes a point to say that she was cute and caring and always had a big heart.

Phyllis finds role play fun.

She can put on lipstick the way Molly Ringwald does in the Breakfast Club where it's like tucked in her bra.

Yes.

After you saw that movie, did you try to do it?

I couldn't do it.

Yes, I tried.

We all tried.

We all tried.

Yeah.

I couldn't do it.

Could you do it?

No.

She has a long lipstick tube too, though.

Like she has a skinny long lipstick tube.

I think that helps.

I don't know who can do that.

Well, she did it in the movie.

She did it in the movie.

There was no CGI there, I don't think.

No.

Didn't have that back then.

All right.

Continuing with Phyllis.

Phyllis never had an orgasm until she was 42.

And when she did, it lasted until she was 44.

She didn't get much done when she was 43.

That's something I'm bringing up later.

Oh my gosh.

Same.

The show Bible doesn't say anything about college, but it does note that she was in a sorority and also that she had scoliosis as a child and she grinds her teeth.

Oh.

Yes.

Phyllis uses perfumey soaps and likes perfumes in general.

She also likes purple and would do gym.

Would do gym?

Yeah.

I thought at first you meant like she would go to the gym, but then I realized do gym

is gym gym.

Gym helper got it phyllis can knit she would really like a big walk-in closet she loves girl talk but she doesn't like angela

this is in the show bible repeatedly by the way like every episode where phyllis says she doesn't like you is listed in the show bible it's very funny does my character make up the majority of her show bible it's a good portion of it yes Phyllis has four sisters, is a good bowler, and she once had a baby that she gave up for adoption.

That is the Phyllis show bubble.

That was short and tight there.

It was.

Well, I thought we should also break down a big part of Phyllis's character, and that is her wardrobe choices.

She has an iconic look.

And, you know, I did this for all about Angela Martin.

I loved it.

And I definitely thought we had to do it for Phyllis.

Yes.

So here is my guide on how to dress like Phyllis.

You told me you were going to do this and I was delighted.

It's so silly, but I really, really love people's like costumes and how that informs them.

All right, number one.

Typically, you will need some type of sweater cardigan over a blouse,

a long flowing skirt, some sensible shoes.

Most importantly, you are going to need a big papa color, maybe coral or purple.

In fact, you can't go wrong with purple ever.

Remember, Phyllis was called Mother Goose because of her purple ensemble by Sasha Flenderson.

I mean, I just told you it's literally in her show bubble that she loves purple.

She loves purple.

You are also going to need to work in some bold prints.

Yeah.

You can't be afraid of like a little bit of print action.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Print action.

I like that.

Print action.

You're going to need a cute pair of reading glasses, maybe some with a purple rim.

And some type of small earring like gold hoops, a delicate gold wristwatch.

And lastly, but not least, you will always want a statement necklace to complement your outfit.

It might have big baubles or beads.

It's definitely going to color coordinate with your cardigan.

And that's how you dress like Phyllis.

I think Phyllis wants a big walk-in closet just for all of her statement necklaces.

She would have probably one of those hooks that comes out with little like knobs and you could hang them all there.

Yeah.

Like men do with ties, but it would just be her necklaces.

How do you hang your necklaces?

Oh, lady, this is so exciting.

What?

I didn't realize you'd be so excited by this question.

Okay, I have never been asked this.

I think I shared it once on Instagram, like a gazillion years ago.

But, okay, I got an old dresser at a flea market.

It's like supposedly from France.

Who knows?

But it's old.

Like the drawers don't quite come out right, you know.

But it was like a dressing

chest.

okay?

So it's got these two doors.

There's probably a better name for it.

A dressing chest is probably not it.

But it's got these two doors at the top that open.

And then it's got little drawers that you pull out.

So I made the little drawers that you pull out, my jewelry stuff.

You know, I went to the container store.

I got all these little cubby things, like put all my stuff in.

And then the doors, when you open them, I got those tiny little command strip hooks.

They're like clear and they're tiny.

They're like the size of your fingernail.

And I lined the doors on the inside with them.

And that's where I hang my necklaces.

I am so glad I asked this question.

I've never seen you so excited.

Well, it was like a whole DIY project I did one day.

I was so annoyed that like my necklaces get tangled.

And I have some from my mom and, you know, some things I don't want messed up.

And I'm like, where do I put them?

I just got like,

they were like rows of like Home Depot or Lowe's Lowe's or something.

I don't even know where.

And it was like, it's like a wooden thing that you like screw into the wall and it has like little hooks on it.

I've seen those.

And I put a couple of those on the wall in my closet, but it's not sufficient.

They, I only have eight hooks and my necklaces get all tangled.

Well, I'll take a picture of it and show it to you.

And I'll share it in stories if anyone else wants to try my DIY necklace.

The next time I come to your house, I want to see it in person.

Okay.

Before we move on from Phyllis's wardrobe, I do want you to know that there was a ranking of best dressed the office characters.

And guess where Phyllis came in?

Oh, she's got to be top five.

Oh, yeah.

Number two.

Number two.

Yeah.

Who is number one?

Who do you think?

Kelly?

Joe Bennett.

Oh, that's good.

Right?

Yes, very good.

There's also websites that can help you create the office characters' most iconic looks.

I found found a really easy DIY costume guide on Good Housekeeping's website, and I'll put that in stories too.

That'd be good for Halloween.

I know.

Before we go to break, we have some fun merch news.

Yes.

You might have noticed that our old merch store closed, but good news, we are back with a limited time pop-up merch store.

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So just to be clear, this is just a pop-up store and it's only available from September 3rd to September 17th.

Just want to say thank you for your suggestions and we'll be looking to see if you have any more suggestions because we're going to do another one of these like around the holidays, right, Angela?

Yes, you can write us in our general mail folder on our website if you have any merch ideas for our next pop-up store and happy shopping.

We'll be right back.

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We are back and I think we should start this section by each sharing our favorite Phyllis moment.

Well, I can kick things off with a fan letter.

We got this letter from Katie E.

in North Carolina who said, there is one Phyllis moment that makes me laugh out loud every time I see it and giggle every time I think about it.

In season four, episode 10, the Finer Things Club is gathered in the break room.

Phyllis is trying her best to microwave some

In the process, she pushes many buttons,

both the microwaves and Oscars.

I love that every time you think that surely she's done, here come some more beeps.

I listen to your podcast nearly every day while eating lunch, and I so look forward to your breakdown of the hilarious and lovable Phyllis.

In the meantime, you can find me giggling in the corner of my kitchen every time I press a few too many buttons on the microwave.

That scene is is so funny, Katie.

I'm right there with you.

Well, let's see.

Who wants to go first?

Sam, you want to share your favorite Phyllis moment?

Yeah, mine's pretty self-explanatory.

I wonder what people like about me.

Probably my jugs.

Yes, I remember that.

Yeah.

That's a really good one.

Cassie?

One of my favorite episodes is when Phyllis and Bob Vance, the Vance Refrigeration, have lunch or dinner with Jim and Pam, and they obviously go hook up in the bathroom and come back.

And Phyllis is like chugging water and is super flushed.

But of course, that's very visual.

So, as a nod to that, here's one of my favorite talking heads where she's talking about her relationship with Bob.

Yeah, I love going to bars with Bob.

I tend to wear something low-cut, get Min to flirt with me, and Bob beats him up.

I mean, relationship goals, right?

They're so like twisted.

All right.

Well, mine is a talking head that Phyllis has in the Secret Santa episode.

And I think I love it for so many reasons.

One, I just love it because of my friend Phyllis, and I knew how special that episode was for her, that she was in the main storyline, that she was driving scenes, and she just rose to the occasion, and she did such a great job.

Phyllis and I used to run our lines together in our trailers when we had a lot of lines.

So I have that, you know, in my head when I watch this episode.

But then also, it's just a great talking head.

And you can hear how much it meant to Phyllis to be Secret Santa.

Let's hear it.

Merry Christmas, boys and girls.

It's me, Santa Claus.

Hey, Santa.

They finally let you do it.

Congrats, Phil.

It's so edgy.

I have been wanting to be Santa for years.

I believe I have the right temperament and the figure to do the job well.

I slipped a note to Jim 11 weeks ago, and he said I could do it.

Oh, it's been a long journey,

but

I'm Santa Claus.

Oh my gosh, I love it so much.

Isn't that so great?

Yes.

And I just love that you hear everyone's excitement for her as she comes in, you know, in her Santa Claus outfit.

I just love that moment.

Okay.

Well, my favorite Phyllis moment is the scene that I did with her in Dunder Mifflin Infinity Part 1.

So this is the episode where everyone has found out that Jim and Pam are dating.

Pam and Jim are sitting in the break room and they're having lunch and Phyllis comes in.

And we could not get through this scene because she was so funny.

Here it is.

Oh,

sorry.

I didn't know you guys were in here.

Oh, no, we're just sitting here.

I couldn't see your hands.

Hey, Pam, by the way, it's great that you're dating, but when a new client calls, you just have to randomly assign them to a salesperson.

You can't base who gets new clients on who you're sleeping with that week.

Okay?

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

And

that is why we waited so long to tell people.

sad.

There were two things that were so funny.

So, one, both of our hands are on the table when she says, I couldn't see your hand.

And John did this gesture where he, like, after she says it, we look at each other and he holds up his hands to the camera.

It's so funny, but we could barely get through that line when she said it.

And then, of course, the second line is when she said, based on who you're sleeping with, that week.

Like that little bit.

It just every time.

She just like doubles down on the snark it's so good so good

well i loved all of that and this really transitions nicely into my area of interest lady okay what was it mine is best phyllis one liners so the fans of the office love a good phyllis one liner there's a lot of like threads online about it and i found an article that lists them and here is what it said While Phyllis Fance is known for her soft-spoken demeanor, she often delivers unexpectedly sharp, biting remarks.

Her ability to blend sweetness with a surprising sting made her an underrated master of the one-liner on the office.

The list in this article was very long.

She has a lot of really good one-liners, but I thought I'd read you guys my favorites, and some of yours might be on here.

Okay.

Number one in the article was, Close your mouth, sweetie.

You look like a trout.

I knew that was going to be number one.

I knew it.

I knew it.

Okay.

Number two, as a person who buys a lot of erotic cakes, it just feels good to be represented on one.

So good.

How many erotic cakes is this woman buying?

I don't know, but I almost picked that scene as my favorite Phyllis moment because it's very funny to me.

That's the episode where she finally gets to run the party planning committee and Meredith wants to get an erotic cake and Angela doesn't.

And Phyllis is like, I'd like to hear her out.

You know what's so funny is that

when I first moved to Los Angeles, I had an apartment in West Hollywood and right on Santa Monica Boulevard, there was an erotic cake shop and it was just a few doors down from the Ramada Inn where my mom and dad would always stay.

Is this the only thing they made at this cake shop?

It was just

there's that many people ordering erotic cakes that you can dedicate a whole lot.

I mean, it was a tiny little storefront.

I don't know if it's still there, but my mom and dad would stay at the Ramada Inn and my dad, you know, would get up at like 4.30 in the morning.

He's such an early riser, like, you know, 5 a.m.

He's out, he's dressed, he's taking a walk.

And I forgot about the erotic cake store.

And they had a display in the window.

They had a giant penis.

And then next to it, they had a really detailed hairy vagina.

In the front window.

Welcome to Los Angeles, Mr.

Kinsey.

I know.

I said to my dad, dad, I was like, oh, how was your walk?

He was like, you guys got some interesting cakes.

I'm like, cakes, what are you talking about?

And then I remembered.

I was like, oh, yeah.

Dad, if you need a, if you need neurotic cake, I know where to send you.

All right.

Okay.

Let's get back to your Phillis one liners.

Let's get back.

Okay.

Number three, we have a gym at home.

It's called the bedroom.

Oh, yeah.

And then Sam, the next one is your clip that people probably like her jugs.

Excellent.

Next one is, I never never had an orgasm till I was 42.

And then when I did, it lasted until I was 44.

43 was just, ah, I got nothing done,

which made it into the show Bible.

Next one, Bob Vance bought this perfume for me in Metropolitan Orlando.

It's made from real pine.

That was another scene I almost picked as my favorite Phyllis moment.

I love how like offended she was about it was Karen that didn't like her perfume, right?

Karen is like smelling something, and she's like, What is that smell?

What is that?

And Phyllis is like, Oh, I'll help you find it.

And she comes over to her desk.

And then, yeah, Karen's like, Oh my God, um, sorry, I think I'm just allergic to your perfume.

Yeah, and Phyllis is pissed.

I have that clip, by the way, if you want it.

Oh, let's hear it.

Let's hear it.

What's that smell?

What smell?

Must be a hair freshener plugged in somewhere.

It's like a funeral home.

Oh, I'll help you find it.

Oh, you know, never, never mind.

What is it?

I think I'm just allergic to your perfume.

My perfume?

It's just my crazy nose.

I'm

used to different smells.

Bob Vance bought this perfume for me in Metropolitan Orlando.

It's made from real pine.

Who's Bob Vance?

You have a lot to learn about this town, sweetie.

Great tags.

So great.

All right.

Next one is, I'm glad Michael's getting help.

He has a lot of issues and he's stupid.

That made me laugh out loud.

I forgot it.

It did me too.

Okay.

Next one.

This isn't your grandmother's Christmas party.

She has a lot of swagger.

She does.

The next one tugged at my heartstrings.

Phyllis says, I just think we all deserve to be with someone who wants to be with us.

Is that good?

Good little nugget of wisdom there.

And lastly, my favorite Phyllis quote is one that's an inside joke with my friends.

Jenna, you know this one about me.

I guess whenever it rains, I do say the plants are going to be so happy.

And I just wanted to hear all of Phyllis's quotes about rain.

Here they are.

Wow, it is raining cats and dogs out there.

Holy moly.

Phyllis says the same 12 cliches every time it rains.

So, I promised everyone that if she says them all by noon today, I will send out for hot chocolates.

So, how's the drive in?

Nobody knows how to drive in the rain.

You don't say?

Yeah.

You know, the roads are actually the slickest in the first half hour.

The plants are gonna love this.

Yeah.

I actually sleep better when it's it's raining.

Tell me about it.

Time's almost up.

How many are left?

Just one.

This weather makes me want to stay at home curled up with a good book.

Phyllis,

this rain, does it make you want to be doing something?

What do you mean?

You know, like, aren't some things just so nice and cozy in the rain?

Hey, come on.

Lots of things are cozy in the rain.

And that's noon.

Exactly.

I mean, normally the rain would make me want to stay at home curled up with a good book, but everybody's being so nice to me today.

I'm really happy being here.

Cute.

So cute.

I just love it.

I loved visiting those one-liners, Angela.

You know, we got a lot of mail about the evolution of Phyllis's character and how she is sort of like soft-spoken, yet also confident.

especially after her relationship with Bob starts.

And as you have shown, she gets some zingers in there.

Yeah.

And, you know, she even made it onto some office villain lists because of her snark.

Oh, yeah.

Yes.

I was excited to ask Phyllis about this.

But first, let's get into my area of interest, which is fan theories explored.

Oh, I love a fan theory.

What you got?

So the sexual harassment episode in season two created two big mysteries about Phyllis.

We got tons of mail about both of these things.

So the first thing we learned about Phyllis in this episode was that she had a one-night stand with someone in the office.

And fans have been trying to figure out who it could be.

This is when, you know, there's that scene where we're told you have to disclose office relationships.

And Phyllis says even one night stands.

Yes.

A lot of people have wondered if it was Stanley Hudson.

But in our all about Stanley episode, you found that deleted scene that totally debunked that theory.

Yes.

Thank you, Dave Rogers.

Well, we got mail about a new theory of who it could be.

Who?

Christina G from Portugal said, could Todd Packer be the one-night stand?

Oh,

for sure.

In the sexual harassment episode, Michael said that back in the day, Todd Packer, quote, as a joke, slept with every woman in the office.

And in the episode where Ed Truck's kappa was detated from his head, we find out that at some point, Ed Truck was Phyllis's boss as well, which means Phyllis was already working at Dunder Mifflin when Michael was a salesman and during those legendary days with Packer.

When they would party and they all had mullets.

Yeah.

And when Todd Packer slept with every woman in the office.

Also, Coru from Brazil said, hey, ladies, since I was curious to know who Phyllis's one-night stand was, I ended up doing some research and I think that person might be Todd Packer.

Meredith confirms that she and Todd Packer did have sex in the past.

And the only female who has worked in the office longer than Meredith and still works there is Phyllis.

People said, please discuss.

I mean, I totally buy this just because of those early day parties.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Well, there were a couple of other names that got tossed around.

They were Devon, Ed Truck.

Ed Truck, I buy.

And Creed.

But it almost always comes back to Todd Packer.

And here is why.

People noted that Phyllis said she didn't have her first orgasm till she was 42.

If we look at sort of the timeline of the office and we assume she was 40 when filming started, Bob Vance was introduced as her boyfriend in season two.

So it kind of lines up that maybe she had her first orgasm with Bob Vance.

So fans have pointed out.

that Creed could not have been her one-night stand because, quote, he definitely knows how to please a woman.

and this brings people back to packer since quote he definitely has never pleased a woman

so i guess we're down to todd packer or ed truck there is devin i guess there is devin i guess i mean just for the story of bob and phyllis it does make sense especially as you know the scene Cassie pointed out where they get it on in the bathroom.

Yeah.

And she says the gym is the bedroom.

It does make sense to me that her first orgasm was with Bob, and that's why she's always down to mess around.

I mean, I think this was a huge like sexual awakening for her.

Getting married to Bob, having a partner who was interested in pleasuring her.

It's never too late.

It's definitely never too late.

Yeah.

Well, I checked AI, which I know what AI says.

What did AI say?

AI said no.

Phyllis did not have a a one-night stand with Todd Packer on the office.

AI doesn't know.

Well, AI said while Michael does jokingly suggest that Packer slept with everyone in the office, including Phyllis, this is not a confirmed event in the show.

There is no evidence in the show to support the claim that Phyllis had a one-night stand with Packer.

And the idea that Phyllis had a one-night stand with Packer is likely a misunderstanding or a joke made by Michael, who is known for his exaggerated and often inaccurate stories.

I feel like you just had a debate, like, is Toby the Scranton Strangler?

But you had it with AI.

I did.

All right.

The other thing that we find out in this episode, Sexual Harassment, is that she and Michael are the same age because it is revealed that they were in the same class in high school.

However, many people wrote in with the theory that Michael is actually older than Phyllis, and they say that the evidence for this is Michael's talking head from season four, Dunder Mifflin Infinity, part two.

Let's listen.

Ever since I was a kid, people have been telling me that I can't do things.

You can't be on the team.

You can't move on to second grade.

Well, now they're telling me that I can't win back clients using old-fashioned business methods.

We'll see about that.

And FYI, I eventually aced second grade, and I was the biggest kid in class.

So here's the thing.

If Michael was held back in second grade okay he says eventually aced second grade did he repeat it once did he repeat it twice oh my goodness that would mean that if he and phyllis were in the same class in high school michael was actually one or two years older than everybody in the class

provided phyllis wasn't held back as well no evidence that she was

so maybe

Phyllis is younger than Michael.

I mean,

that would definitely make Michael crazy.

Yeah.

All right.

Finally, this is not a fan theory, just a fan letter that led me to a nugget that I have to share because it was so sweet.

Ronica from Jacksonville, Florida said, in the super fan episode for Goodbye Toby, there's a scene that's been added with Bob Vance giving Phyllis additional money for the parking lot extravaganza.

Lady, you know, this is the episode Goodbye Toby where Phyllis is put in charge of planning this big goodbye party, but she's been given a tiny budget.

She goes out to the parking lot with Bob Vance.

You have to hear it.

And if the food stations are here

and here, no

here and here, drinks here, then people can mingle.

But then where would the band go?

Hmm.

What about there?

No, Bob, I don't know.

It's times like these.

I wish my mother were with me right now.

She'd show me what to do.

That's stupid, she's not here.

She's at water aerobics for the next 45 minutes.

Phyllis, is that going to be enough food?

That's all I have in the budget.

Is it just a matter of money?

Come on.

Anything for my lovely.

What would I do without you?

I hope you never have to find out.

See you at the party.

Isn't that so sweet?

It's so sweet.

And also, I was about to get sad about her mom, but then we find out she's at Water Aerobics.

So I love that in the writing.

That whole thing takes so many fun twists and turns.

Like you just don't know where it's going.

And I love how that scene just ends with this genuine, just love and affection between her and Bob fans.

Yeah.

I loved it.

Those are great.

I love your fan theories.

Thank you.

Well, listen, why don't we take a break?

Because when we come back, we're going to dive into your questions.

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We are back and it's time to jump into our mailbag for all about Phyllis.

Now, unfortunately, Phyllis couldn't join us today, but she sent in some audio clips and she sent back some responses to your questions.

So let's get started.

Let's get started.

Big hugs for Phyllis in St.

Louis.

Hi, Phyllis.

Hi, Phyllis.

All right.

So we've shared on the podcast before, and I think people know this, Phyllis was cast on the show because she was working as a casting associate for Allison Jones.

Yes.

She read with us during our auditions and director Ken Kwappus suggested, you know what?

She should have a part in the pilot.

But we wanted to revisit this because we got this great question from Grace C.

in Springville, Utah.

Grace says, how did Phyllis Smith end up in Los Angeles?

And how did she come to work with Allison Jones as a casting associate?

I mean, Jenna and I were so curious because we realize we know how she got her role in the office, but we don't know how she ended up in Los Angeles.

Or Or how she ended up working with Allison.

That's right.

Well, Phyllis sent us in a clip answering your question, Grace, and here it is.

Well, I was on the road in a vaudeville burlesque show.

I was doing like show dancing, the Charleston, the original can

from the Moulin Rouge.

We did not strip.

We had strategically placed feathers.

It was a lot of fun.

I worked with Will B.

Abel and his show called Baggy Pants.

And then I continued in another vaudeville show working with the Mercer brothers, Bud and Jim Mercer.

And combined with Baggy Pants and Bud and Jim's show called Giggles Galore, I was on the road about six or seven years.

And then the Mercer brothers and I, we decided to take the show to California to revamp the show.

And the Mercer Brothers lived in California, so that's why we decided to take the show to California.

And while we were in the throes of revamping the show, we ended up getting a job in Long Beach at Shoreline Village, and the show was called the Captain's Crew Review.

I think the sign is still up there on the boardwalk, if you ever get down that way.

And we did three shows on Saturday, three on Sunday, and we did that for an entire season.

Then I injured my knee doing a jump split at the end of the can can and so that kind of ended my dancing career.

I ended up becoming a receptionist at an aerospace defense company and while I was working there I got a call to actually go on an audition for a mousy woman.

I went in, I did not get the role because I wasn't mousy enough, but during that audition, I told the casting director, I think I might be good in casting.

And then

a little while later, I got a call to be her casting coordinator at the Edwards Billet Production Company.

They did things like the court shows, like Superior Court and other shows.

And I met a gentleman by the name of Alan Hochberg, and we were both working in the casting department at Edwards Billet Productions.

And Alan ended up working as the casting director on Dr.

Quinn Medicine Woman.

And he asked me to be his associate with him on Dr.

Quinn.

We did Dr.

Quinn for the run of the show.

And when it ended,

I walked out of the casting office and I walked across the hall to another casting director's office.

And I said, hey, guys, see y'all later.

This is my last day with Alan Hochberg.

And if you know of anyone that needs a casting associate, I'm available.

And they said, you know, Allison Jones needs an associate.

So they gave me her number and I called her, I had an interview with her, and I started work that following Monday.

And

that's how I ended up at Allison Jones.

So it was kind of a meant-to-be.

I went out the door of one casting office and into another casting office.

So that's how I came to California.

I mean, a jump split?

That sounds scary.

You do jump splits on the trampoline.

I mean, I don't land in the splits, though, right?

Oh, yes.

I do.

Right.

Yeah.

Like a toe touch, but I'm not landing.

Yeah.

I land on my feet.

Well, that just goes to show you that one door closes, another one opens, and Phyllis walked through it.

and ended up walking her way onto our show.

That's right.

I do just love her sort of just like, get out there, put yourself out there, just walked across the hall, said, hey, I'm available for a job.

Phyllis talked a little bit about her dancing in that audio clip.

And we got this fan question from Marina M in Melbourne, Australia, who said, I love watching Phyllis dance and the joy she has in her movement.

Could Phyllis give us a little rundown of her dancing background?

Well, Marina, Phyllis told us that she started dancing at seven years old and the majority of her training was in St.

Louis with Marjorie Mendeley.

Was Marjorie sort of a big deal in St.

Louis for dancing?

I don't know Marjorie.

I studied at Krapinski's.

Oh.

And it has been passed down through three generations now, from Lillian Kropinski to Mark Kropinski to his daughter.

I don't know her name.

She was a little girl when I was dancing because I studied mostly under Mark.

But I started with Lillian.

Now this is becoming about my dance background, everyone.

Sorry for that.

But Lillian Kropinski for ballet class, she used to walk around with a cane and she would whap the floor right next to us.

Like if our toes weren't pointed correctly or if our turnout wasn't correct.

Yeah.

I'd be out.

Well, she retired and Mark took over.

But yeah, so I studied at Kropinski's.

Well, I'm just sort of getting a vibe here from my St.

Louis gals that dance has kind of got a real community there.

I think there is a big dance community in St.

Louis.

Okay.

So back to Phyllis.

Yes, she said she took ballet, tap, and jazz.

She also danced in two ballet companies, the St.

Louis Civic Ballet and the St.

Louis Dance Theater.

Wow.

She did point.

And she also studied at Kansas City University and Tulsa University in the summer.

She said they had these six-week intensified workshops that she did for like three or four different summers.

So a lot of dance training.

This is when I wish we could just take a minute and just like time travel and meet Phyllis back then and like see her on stage.

Wouldn't that be so fun?

Yeah.

Well, Phyllis also said she ended up working at JCPenney's and she would teach dancing at night and take lessons at night.

And then she ended up eventually going to Washington University to get her certificate to teach modern dance.

I didn't know any of this.

Me either.

Unfortunately, she didn't end up getting her certificate.

I guess she missed it by one or two hours, but she took a ton of dance classes.

And as Phyllis shared with us, she also ended up dancing in a jazz company in San Diego one summer.

And then that got her into the vaudeville burlesque show scene.

And she was on the road for about six or seven years doing that show.

I guess until the jump split.

I mean, yeah, that is a long time.

And Phyllis said, you know, she always knew she wanted to be a dancer.

I love that.

That was her first love.

Her first love.

And she did get to Shimmy and dance on the office.

Well, it shows that she always wanted to be a dancer because it brought out a joy in her every time she did it.

Kickball change.

Kickball change, lady.

Pada bo-ray.

Okay, so now that we got the Phyllis Smith backstory, a lot of you wrote in asking if Phyllis created a backstory for the character of Phyllis.

And if so, could we share some of the details?

Well, we asked Phyllis, and here's what she said.

She said, to be very honest, I was so new as an actor that I generally concentrated on trying to do the words of the script to be as authentic as I could be.

I really didn't know to create a backstory.

So I think my character developed by how the writer saw my personality.

We had multiple writers on the show and various writers would see Phyllis different ways.

Phyllis said some of the writers would see her as shy, others saw her as sassy.

So she basically just concentrated on the written word.

And that's what brought authenticity authenticity to her performance.

I love that.

It sort of reminds me when we spoke to Lee and Jean, and they talked about how writers would write Michael in different ways.

Yes.

And I just think that's so smart of Phyllis to have observed that.

Yeah.

Phyllis went on to say, quote, I was new in that realm of the business.

So I went out and bought books on improv because I had never really done improv before.

And I knew that there had to be parameters and guidelines to go by.

So I bought books to give me a little background on doing improv.

But as far as my backstory, no, I did not create one.

Yeah, but I mean, what she did was just powerful in its own way because she just wanted to be authentic.

Well, speaking of backstories, we got a fan mail flurry from people wanting to know more about her character's romance with Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration.

Fan question from Michael C.

in Staten Island.

How does Phyllis think her character met Bob Vance?

I would have loved to see the courtship.

Me too.

Well, Phyllis sent us in a little clip about this, and here's what she said.

In my own mind, I always thought it would be humorous if I helped Bob change the tire on his car.

You know, here is this really capable, strapping, strong man, and he needed help getting his flat tire on his car changed in the parking lot at Dunder Mifflin.

So I always thought it would be funny.

So in my own mind, I helped Bob change the flat tire on his car.

And as far as our romance, I always imagine that when Bob asked me to marry him, he rented out the booze cruise just for us.

No one else was on it.

He took me on the booze cruise, and it was just Bob Vance, Vance refrigeration, and myself.

And it was very romantic and really lovely.

I'm not sure of the details, but you should ask Bob what his backstory was for us.

He's really good at backstory, and I believe I read somewhere that he thought of Phyllis and Bob as the girl that he cared so much for in high school.

Evidently, there was someone in his life that he really cared for, and he treated me as if I was that person that he cared so much for in high school.

Also, his mother's name was Phyllis in real life, and his father's name was Bob, so that was kind of an interesting thing.

And I must say that Bob was and is such a professional.

He was always so respectful, and I really enjoyed our relationship of Phyllis and Bob Vance.

He was wonderful to work with, and yeah, it was just pretty cool.

So that's Bob and Phyllis.

You know, I feel like you saw that.

You witnessed their mutual respect and affection for one another.

Yeah.

I love her proposal story that he rented out the booze crew.

Yeah.

Gosh, they did such a good job of chemistry casting on our show.

Yeah.

And some of this just came about.

You know, it's not like Phyllis and Bob had ever auditioned together.

It's true.

Yeah.

I mean, he came on as Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration, before we ever knew that he was going to be paired up with Phyllis.

Yeah.

Wow.

And how crazy is it that his parents were named Bob and Phyllis?

I know.

What are the chances?

Well, we also got another letter from Megan S.

in San Diego, California, who said, why did Phyllis stay working after marrying Bob?

It was established he was a well-off business owner.

I know show-wise we needed her to stay, but I'm curious what Phyllis's reason was for not retiring because of Bob's wealth.

Well, Megan, here's what Phyllis had to say.

Phyllis said, Well, Phyllis enjoyed her job.

She enjoyed the challenge of being a paper salesman, and she liked the company, the people, and the friends that she had at Dunder Mifflin.

And also, she didn't want to be fully dependent upon a man.

She wanted to have her own source of income.

I believe it.

I do too.

Also, you know, they met met later in life and she was a fully realized person.

You know, she didn't need Bob.

She chose Bob.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Like that.

All right.

So you know how earlier we all shared our favorite Phyllis moments?

Yes.

Well, we got this fan question from Sion J in London, England.

Scion says, hey, Phyllis, you've got that perfect mix of sweet and sassy.

What's your favorite Phyllis burn and how many of them were improvised?

Well, I love a Phyllis Burn too, as you guys know.

And Phyllis said many of her favorites were actually on the list of fan favorites that we shared.

One of her absolute favorites was when Phyllis said, close your mouth, sweetie, you look like a trout.

She also said she liked the one that we played where she talks to Karen about her perfume that Bob Vance bought for her.

She said, as Phyllis, I was very insulted by her not liking my perfume and I liked that burn as well.

She did share that both of those were completely scripted, but she also said she did some improv with rashida when they got their hair and makeup done and they're all dressed up you know and they're in the car on the way to the companies

and traveling salesman she said that she improvised a little bit how phyllis lappen thought jim was hot okay

and she said afterwards greg complimented her and said it was really funny but it didn't make it in the episode well i found it Oh, really?

Yes.

It's in deleted scenes.

By the way, deleted scenes on the DVD for the traveling salesman and the return, they're combined.

It's like 22 minutes.

Okay, so buckle in.

There's a lot, but it's in there, and I think you should hear it.

Jim is so hot.

Yeah.

I just, every time he just like walks by, I can't help but stare at his bottom, his butt.

Really?

Pretty cool.

Does he wear boxers or briefs or?

Oh, um, or a G-string.

Wow.

A G-string?

Oh, my God.

I know.

Well, we asked Phyllis if there were any other memorable improvisations or unscripted moments involving Phyllis that stand out.

And she said that in season one in Sexual Harassment, when Michael's character goes over and starts like hugging her and messing up her hairdo, that was unscripted.

I believe that.

I watched that.

She said she loves that moment.

And it's also the first time she worked directly with Steve.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

And then, lady, you know, your favorite Phyllis moment was when she was Santa Claus.

Yes, her talking head.

Listen to what she said about that.

She said that is one of her favorite talking heads because it wasn't written that she was supposed to cry.

She said that she just started crying when she talked about how much she wanted to be Santa Claus because she felt how much Phyllis, the character, wanted to be Santa Claus.

That That is beautiful.

I know.

Phyllis, I'm telling you, man, what can't this woman do?

I know.

She is such a great performer.

Okay.

Wow, I didn't realize that.

All right.

Well, for our listeners who are new to the podcast, we have talked a lot on here about what we did in the background of scenes.

We had a lot of time to kill because we were all in one big room together.

We were all in the background of each other's scenes.

And Phyllis happened to have just gotten a new house and she was constantly searching for things for the house.

I'm talking lamps, patio furniture, rugs.

And well, for a long, long time, she was looking for a gate for her driveway.

Yes.

It was an intensive online search, and we all weighed in about it.

Every day there'd be a new gate we'd have to look at.

Does it swing out?

Does it slide?

What is it made of?

Well, we got a question about Phyllis's gate and that just cracked us up.

And we shared it with her.

It's from Anna R.

in Fresno, California.

Anna said, after listening to the second drink of Michael's birthday, it reminded me about Phyllis's gate.

We've heard so much about this gate.

What does it look like?

I know, weird question, but it would be really appreciated.

So, Anna, this question really tickled Phyllis as well.

And she wrote us to answer you.

The first thing she said was, my gate?

Question mark, which cracked me up.

She shared with us that after all of those days and weeks of us all looking at pictures and videos of driveway gates, it was actually the gentleman who installed her yard fences who suggested the gate that she ended up using.

Oh, yes, she said he helped her design it, and it was the perfect look for her house.

Anna, to answer what it looked like, she said her house is mid-century modern, so she just went with a simple wooden gate.

And here's a little important piece of detail for you: the slats of it went horizontal, not vertical.

There you go.

I love that Phyllis's gate got a question in the

I I do too.

She was so confused.

She was like, my gate?

Well, we also got a lot of mail from people pointing out that the character of Phyllis was pretty shy in early seasons, but then as the show goes on, you see her really like push back against Angela.

She gets pretty judgy of Pam and pretty frisky with Bob Vance.

So we asked her, how does she feel about the evolution of her character?

And here's what she had to say.

I really loved how my character as Phyllis evolved.

I think that as I gained more confidence in my work and was watching and learning on the set,

that my personal confidence grew stronger, and

therefore the character of Phyllis

had more layers to her.

And also, the writers, like I said before,

saw my personality in different ways.

Some saw me as shy, others saw me as frisky, others saw me as as bitchy.

So

anyway,

and I also loved how Angel and I were combative with each other.

And in real life, we were not combative at all.

We were good friends.

But I love the combativeness in the storyline.

Yeah,

I think Phyllis really evolved in the nine seasons and was and I was very happy that when I look back on it, it was pretty, pretty wonderful.

I really enjoyed it.

Well, I do love that she shared that we weren't combative in real life.

It's always nice to get that information out there.

But we did have a lot of fun being frenemies, you know, on the set.

Well, I wanted to share an article with you guys that I read, and I told Phyllis that I read it and wanted to share it.

The article was from AARP, and they asked Phyllis, quote, one of the appealing things about the office was that it treated its older characters with the same respect or comedic lack thereof as the younger ones.

And here's what Phyllis said to that.

I felt kind of ageless there.

Occasionally they would make note of the fact that Phyllis was older.

They called me Granny Goose one time.

But in general, I think creator Greg Daniels and the writers did a great job of keeping the characters fresh.

They didn't dwell on age.

They didn't.

Yeah, we were sort of in this time capsule, like we could exist anywhere.

Yeah, and if there was a joke and you were older, that wasn't your only bell to ring.

Yeah.

You know?

Well, I just love that, Angela.

And then finally, everyone, Phyllis wanted to say this.

She said, I do want to add that I loved every minute of being in the office for nine years.

It changed my life in a positive, good way.

It gave me a career, a new career when I never even believed acting was ever going to happen for me.

And I am forever grateful to Ken Kwapas and Greg Daniels and all my coworkers to have shared that part of my life with them.

I really, truly loved every moment and I still miss it.

I miss my coworkers and I miss the creativity of it.

And I'm forever grateful for it.

And it was all by God's grace, too.

She's the best.

I love her.

I love her.

I miss her.

I do too.

Well, before we go, I think we have one last thing to discuss.

And that is, what does the NBC website say about what happened to Phyllis after the show ended?

Oh, yes.

So, yeah, on the NBC website, it says, Phyllis, after locating her long-lost daughter, moved with Bob to St.

Louis to have a relationship with her.

She now works at a yarn store and gives knitting lessons.

Well, I love that.

I do love that.

But,

um,

how should I say this?

They might need to update that after the paper comes out next week.

Yeah, they might.

No spoilers, but they might want to update it.

Yes, you all will know what we are referring to very soon.

Be sure to check out the paper this Thursday, premiering on Peacock.

And be sure to join us next week for our breakdown of the pilot of the paper.

All right.

Well, everyone, thank you so much for joining us on our tribute to Phyllis Lap and Vance.

And thank you to Phyllis Smith for answering everyone's questions.

We just love you.

Loved hearing from you, Phyllis.

And the questions were so great.

Thanks again to everyone who writes in for these all-about episodes.

They really help us craft it.

And we love you guys.

Yeah, we'll see you next week.

See you then.

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins.

Our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer.

And our associate producer is Ainsley Bubico.

Odyssey's executive executive producer is Leah Rhys Dennis.

Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Schultz.

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.

As a young adult, finding the right path to your future can feel overwhelming.

It starts with Year Up United's tuition-free job training program Career Pathways.

If you're without a bachelor's degree but have a high school diploma or GED, you can get skills-first training to succeed in the industries you're passionate about, all while earning a weekly educational stipend to offset basic expenses.

From there, you'll have access to internships and hands-on experiences with Fortune 500 companies.

And with Euro Up United's job placement services and personalized coaching and mentorship, you can put your knowledge, skills, and most importantly, confidence into practice.

Apply to Europe United today and take the first step toward achieving the career you want.

Visit Europe.org to learn more.

Building a portfolio with Fidelity Basket portfolios is kind of like making a sandwich.

It's as simple as picking your stocks and ETFs, sort of like your meats and other topics, and managing it as one big juicy investment.

Hmm, now that's pretty good.

good.

Learn more at fidelity.com/slash baskets.

Investing involves risk, including risk of loss.

Fidelity Broker's Services LLC, member NYSC SIPC.