Seth Meyers on Parenting, Podcasting & Late Night

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Hi, everyone from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher.
My guest today is SNL veteran and late night host Seth Meyers. Meyers is the host of NBC's Late Night with Seth Meyers, a seat he's held for 10 years now.
During his tenure on Saturday Night Live, Me has starred alongside a range of talent like Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, Maya Rudolph, Rachel Dratch, Bill Hader, Fred Armisen, Kenan Thompson, and Kristen Wiig. Not only did Meyer appear on the show for 13 seasons, but he was also head writer for nine seasons.
He has received over 30 Emmy nominations over his career. He's a bestselling author, and he's the executive producer of a portfolio of comedy programs.
He's also a really nice guy, actually. I've gotten to know him over the past couple years.
Beyond TV, Seth also continues to do stand-up. In 2019, he did a Netflix special called Lobby Baby, and now he has a new special called Dad Man Walking that premieres on HBO on Max this Saturday, October 26.
Seth also hosts two podcasts, of course, inevitably, drops his late-night show in pod form and formerly hosted the short-lived Strike Force 5 pod during the Hollywood Strikes last summer with a range of other late-night talk show hosts. Our expert question comes from another late-night icon, also turned podcaster, Sam B.
I have plenty to talk about with Seth, the future of late night, his venture into podcasting, and of course, his latest special. So let's get to it.
Hi, Seth, and welcome. Thanks for being on On.
It's so wonderful to be on On. Thank you.
I know. We've seen it.
It is on HBO and Max this weekend. It's kind of a follow-up or sibling, if you will, to the 2019 stand-up special Lobby Baby.
I think that's a good way of putting it. Yeah, I think sibling.
They're both about parenting and life, and Lobby Baby's about your son who was born in a lobby, and you have a great bit about how they met the president and their differences. But let's just quickly play a clip from Dad Man Walking so people can get a sense of it.
It's great any time you're a parent and your kid says something funny. It's so much better if you're a comedian, because the minute he said it, I couldn't wait to get out on stage and tell it to you.
Because that's the thing. The most important thing to me is that my kids are happy, but I also love when they're material.
To put it in a simpler way, I want them to be content, but I also want them to be content. So I see what you did here.
I saw what you did there. A little bit of wordplay.
A little wordplay. Joycean wordplay, yeah.
Talk about why you sort of moved in this direction, because my second son, who you met, the really tall one, calls me a sharent. Oh, that's a very, I like that.
It's not a compliment. It's not a compliment.
No, of course not. Yeah.
And I do worry about talking about them, but there are frequent characters on my podcast. He's called Legs.
Clara, my daughter, is called the golden child, et cetera. When your kids get a little older and watch your comedy specials, how do you think they're going to react to it? Well, first of all, I'm very cognizant of the fact that, you know, by the time they hit 12 or 13, they will have permission to say, hey, I'm off limits, FYI.
And I think they will be able to tell that it is a loving portrayal. And I try very hard to make sure that I'm the dumbest person in my special when I talk about my family, which they would, by the way, all sign off on that assessment.
So feckless dad is what you're going. Feckless dad, I think is the way to put it.
Feckless dad, yeah. And, you know, my lobby baby loves being lobby baby.
And I feel like the older one, Ash, will sometimes be in the park and people come over and say, which one's lobby baby? And Ash will say, he's lobby baby. I'm hospital baby.
And I don't have the heart to tell them that that's not that novel or interesting. But they do like being, I think, part of who – I think they love knowing I talk about them.
Right. And they recently came to the show just – I forget.
Oh, they came because we had a couple of New York Knicks on. And so the boys wanted to come and meet the Knicks.
And they never at the show. This is your, your, your.
My talk show. Yeah.
Talk show. Yeah.
And so they came and they heard me warm up the crowd and that story that's in the special about them meeting president Biden. I tell him the warmup and they were so tickled to know that I was sort of telling a story about them to strangers, especially one where, you know, it's about me being delighted and watching how they act.
So, you know, look, I'm sure there's something coming, but, you know, I don't quite know how to be a comedian father and not have that. Yeah, it's interesting because my son who does not like when I mention, the other one doesn't care.
And he sometimes is mad when I don't mention him too, right? Like, why'd you leave me out? Well, you screamed at me when I mentioned something and your frat found out about it and this and that. But is there a line where you don't use, you put yourself as, as I said, a feckless dad, and that's kind of a trope, you know, of sitcom.
A hundred percent. And there's always a feckless dad and a smarter mother, and that's what's happening here and sharper kids.
But is there a line you don't use for your material? Of course. But I think that, again, the version that's on HBO has been, I've done this hour so many times, and you sort of find out by trying.
And for me, the line is never about pushing the bounds of good taste. It's just, you know, sometimes I'll tell a story that is, you know, critical of something my wife did.
And I can sense when the audience... Your wife's mean, apparently.
My wife can be mean. She would also sign off on this.
But again, you know, like there's a lot of work that goes into the special to, you know, having this undergirding that here are the things I do that justify my wife's meanness. And to just say she's mean without showing the work.
You know, there were times, by the way, there were, you know, I ran the hour a few times and maybe didn't have that undergirding and it left a bad taste in my mouth. So it's always just trying to find the balance.
Yeah. One of the lines you had really hit with me is, you know, I have four kids, you have three.
Parenting is constantly suppressing yourself. Your true self, yeah.
Your true self. Talk a little bit about that.
Well- Like the clockwork orange sweater thing, I literally did two nights ago. This is a thing where you don't want to do anything.
You don't want to hit your kid. You don't want to yell at them.
But you take off the sweater in an aggressive manner'll pull a sweater off as fast as you can. And then the collar catches and pulls one eyebrow way up and you clockwork orange your child into seeing what they've done to you.
It's, you know, I think it's just that suppressing your true self, which is you, if some, if anyone else in your world behaved the way your kids would, there would be a way you'd react that is now not acceptable or effective with kids. And so you just, it's almost like learning a foreign language late in life where, again, you're saying, I don't care for the fact that you dumped your oatmeal on the floor.
And that is as crazy to you as conjugating irregular Italian verbs. I don't care.
I don't care for that. I don't care for that.
Speaking of family, it's kind of in the election right now. J.D.
Vance obsessed with family in a really troubling way. This idea of having family.
How do you look at that? Why that's become sort of a campaign issue right now? I don't know. It's so shocking to me because I, of course, know a great many more liberal people than conservative people and i i know not any of them to care less about their families and it's so strange how they're able to i don't know just look you flat in the eye and and take the position that they have a better sense of what it means to be a part of a family or to take care of a family than the other side does.
I mean, you know, again, they're bad faith actors and this is. Yeah, he seems to have a real, it's interesting.
He talks about children. He talks about having children.
He and I got in a beef a while ago when he just had two children. I had four and he's like, liberals don't believe in the future.
They don't believe in families. And I said, well, since I have double the children, I believe in it twice as much, which he didn't welcome.
He didn't respond to that. If anything, I do think, you know, obviously I celebrate anybody's choice to have kids or not have kids.
But when I didn't have kids, I thought, oh, people with a lot of kids are crazy. And now that I have three, I'm sort sort of like if we started earlier yeah i don't know if i would have stopped having kids yeah you know like i you could still have more children i know but it's really i mean there's another there's another vote there's another vote oh no more kids your wife said you think of your wife um you know all comics mind their lives obviously but you said your wife doesn't listen to your act.
That's not true. She, I should say, and nor should she, like she doesn't watch late night every night, but she, there's never been an hour I've been working on that she hasn't seen like four or five times.
Now with that said, like I'm doing a residency at the Beacon Theater once a month. I'm gonna ask you about that, yeah.
But like, she doesn't come to that, nor should she. But, you know, when I do fundraisers, she'll come to those shows.
And she's an incredibly good sounding board for my material. You know, I get asked a lot, does she have veto power over the jokes? And of course, but that's not the important part.
Like, I'm glad she watches because she almost always, even if she's the butt of a joke, will say, you know, this is actually a funnier example of what you're trying to say here. So it's a really nice partnership.
And again, you know, she I was a comedian when we met. So it's not like she's not understanding what you are.
She's she likes this gig. So your kids are under 10.
And they're too young for social media. But you mentioned in Dad Man Walking that you and your wife, Alexi, don't allow them to have a lot of screen time.
Yeah. I talk about this a lot.
For example, I just had Dr. Becky on.
I've talked to Dr. Murty, who's the Surgeon General, who's talking about that.
Do you think about that right now? Because one of your kids is getting closer to that. Yeah.
Look, I will not surprise you to know it's been a robust conversation at our school and the phone policy has changed um and this is something you know uh we're constantly thinking about and you know we're lucky we're obviously in a group of uh like-minded parents who see it as a threat.

We all appreciate that the future is your kids are going to be using phones the way we used computers and the way that my parents used the printing press. But, you know, it's just smart, I think, to get ahead of it even before your kids are ready for it.
So what rules do you have in place for them now so the one time that they uh watch screens which i would is basically me conceding and i'm not even sure if uh i think alexi would prefer that it wasn't the full but like we take a train me and the boys take a train once a week and uh it's like that's your two hours like what and i'm just like what do you want me to load up here are your headphones enjoy it's great. And then, you know, the other other than that, like if it's not bad weather, like they're not watching stuff like we just try to.
The other thing about being like phones are so bad. Like I, you know, went to public school.
I came home. I immediately turned on TV for like four hours.
Yeah. And it was, you know, I saw terrible content.
I saw more commercials than I think you see on social media.

Like I was just constantly getting blasted.

I don't think it had that much effect.

I think it has a lot less effect than people think.

But obsession with screens certainly does.

It's a different creature.

It is different, right?

It's a different, it's obsessive.

And it doesn't turn off ever.

It never stops.

It's endless.

And I guess that thing, it wasn't like the TV wasn't, never was affecting my esteem.

The TV never said anything about me.

We'll be back in a minute.

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So I want to actually get into the business of these stand-up specials that you are doing um hbo had long been the home for stand-up now there's an incredible number of specials out there on the streamers especially on netflix which is sort of seized the crown um talk about how it's changed over the years for you and who has the advantage now uh the performer or the distributor now your last special for people don't know was on netflix and new ones on hbo talk about your experience there maybe stack rank the streamers well so i got into this a little bit later so i i don't think i came in with a huge sense of what it was and uh robbie prah who is in charge of comedy at netflix was actually really integral in me doing lobby baby i in my head didn't't think I was ready to do a special or necessarily want to do one. And he had seen me do my hour a few times.
And he sort of leaned on me and gave me the confidence to do Lobby Baby. My experience with Netflix was great.
And the thing I sort of missed was it came out in November of 19. And then, you know, I would have maybe started touring about six months later, but that was the pandemic.
So I never really found out like what the touring bounce was of doing, starting to do stand up right after a Netflix special came out. And I've certainly heard from, you know, friends and colleagues that that is a real thing.
And, you know, this time around, I would only say, you know, for me, it does seem as though HBO feels more curated. Obviously, part of it is they're doing less.
I think that there's always a risk of getting a little lost in the Netflix shuffle. I say that having had nothing but a positive experience.
And the other thing for me, which is, again, different than most people, I've worked for the same company for almost 25 years. This is NBC.
Yeah. So anytime I can work with a different person, it's just exciting.
Yeah. So having done Netflix, it was just the appeal for me was doing.
Just dating around. Yeah, dating around.
And, you know, Nina Rosenstein over at HBO has a great reputation. And, you know, in this time, you know, she was sort of the one who courted me.
And I like being courted. You do.
Kara, I do like. What did she do? Just, you know, I was doing my show, you know, before I started doing my residency.
The Beacon, I was doing the City Winery, which is, you know, a little 300-seater. And, you know, she came there to check it out.
And so as far as ranking the screen, but, you know, I know Hulu's getting in the business, which is just good for all of us. And, you know, I believe, I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, I think Bill Burr is maybe doing one over there.
And, you know, Jim Gaffigan and Nate Bargette doing stuff on Amazon I, is good for everybody. You know, certainly if you're talking about volume, Netflix definitely has the crown.
But I think for all stand-ups everywhere, it's great when different streamers want to get into it. Have you thought about doing it yourself? I, you know, I will admit no.
I had people who said exactly the way you said it and um i just like the idea of the hbo logo yeah why just because like hbo meant something to me and like i also feel like we grew up in an era where like it was like this me i like i like this company which is i know crazy now because companies don't like you but uh that like static and hbo thing and uh and just the idea of like i mean i'm i'm pretty i'm almost certain the first you know uh hour-long comedy special i saw was likely on hbo yeah um and so you know i've i've reached the age where it's kind of fun to like do things that are meaningful to me.

And maybe, who knows, maybe not the smartest move financially. But owning your own stuff is not important to you necessarily because they own this now.
Oh, man. I mean, why don't we do these podcasts before I make my deals? I own everything.
No kidding. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
I'm in some discussions right now and I'm like

every time I go meet with someone I own everything. No kidding.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

I'm in some discussions right now and I'm like, every time I go meet with someone, I'm like, what do I need you for?

Explain to me.

Explain to me why I need you.

I have a very different attitude.

But you do not.

You like having the HBO logo. Well, I mean, I should say, like, still the nicest thing about stand-up is, you know, taking it on the road is as lucrative as doing a special so it is nice to have that ownership yeah and you know uh care i will say and you know with the podcast i'm doing right now like we do own those yeah and it's been it's been fun to do that independently and i realize the sort of value of it when you realize when you when you appreciate both cutting out the middleman and then realizing how little the middleman does anything for you.
Like, what do I need you? Speaking of that take on the road, ticket sales for live comedy shows are booming from 2022 to 23 totals. And it's a little post-pandemic.
Total sales went up almost 40%. They've gone up 70% since 2018.
That's pre-pandemic. You used to do stand-up tours so you could get a show.
Oh, 100%. I think the 80s and the 90s, right, the model was the Roseanne model.
You do enough stand-up and you do a lot of stand-up in L.A., probably even less touring in the hopes that a development executive would see development executive would see you. And, you know, one, barely any sitcoms anymore.
So it would be a sort of fool's errand to aim for that. And in general, yeah, I mean, you are generating, I mean, again, I don't think I could tour, even if I was a full-time touring comic, I certainly would not have the sort of booming ticket sales as the people at the top of the game.
But they are, you know, they're absolutely being rewarded for their talents and their fan bases who want to keep coming out and seeing them. And, you know, I also think it's an arduous life.
Right. But— You have a residency at the Beacon with John Oliver.
That's the dream. Talk about that.
It's every month. One Sunday a month.

Yeah.

And John was very kind

during the writer's strike.

He had some Beacon shows booked

and he invited me to join him

for three nights in August of 23, I guess.

And then we sold out three shows

and the Beacon reached out

and asked if we would want to do

a monthly residency.

And that is, I mean, one,

I love being around John and we are good friends who never see each other. And now we see each other once a month.
And we, there's a nice, it just feels, I mean, again, I'm never relaxed when I'm about to do an hour of standup. But it is nice when you know the audience is also getting John.
You sort of feel like a burden of like, no matter how bad it goes, John's incredibly consistent and incredibly good. Yeah.
You're like Celine Dion with Taylor Swift there. It's exactly.
And also just like a Sunday home game in New York City, you know, because, you know, one of the things about touring, which to be honest, I mostly tour to get an hour ready to film. Like, i don't want to be away from my family that much but if i know i'm filming for hbo there's um i will go out one weekend a month and try to do four shows in a weekend just for the reps and now that uh this dead man walking is out it i mostly my plan is just to do the beacon for the near future and start working on a new hour right for for doing it there it's a really interesting way to do that and it's the best I don't have you ever have you ever been there have you ever been I love the beacon yeah it's the I mean it's the biggest intimate theater I've ever been in yeah yeah I think it's a well it's almost like you have a Broadway show I mean Mike Birbiglia kind of does that with his shows yeah I mean I think Birbiglia you know deserves so much credit for building this other model, which is, it is very much stand-up comedy and yet it's also theater, right? Maybe a show is better than theater, but it does feel like a show.
Whereas I feel like you can see some stand-ups and you're like, oh my God, he's a great stand-up. Whereas Birbiglia does the thing.
No, he's creating. And then he produced Alex Adelman too.
Which is the same thing. And there's no, it's by the way, no lack of jokes.
Same amount of jokes you'd see in a standup set. But this like, to have that arc and that resolution is a very cool thing.
I want to talk a little bit also, your other business, Late Night. You have broadcast roots, obviously.
You've been in Light Night for 10 years. You joined SNL.
As you said, you've worked for NBC for a long time in 2001. And for the last decade, you've hosted LateNight with Seth Meyers.
Talk a little bit about that being in LightNight, because LateNight's always been competitive. Hosting a LateNight show was once the highly coveted gig.
That was the top of the heap. But viewership and ad revenue, way down.
You've had to cut your house. Ben Fallon recently cut to Jimmy Fallon four nights a week.
Some late night shows have disappeared altogether. It's expensive production.
Younger generations aren't watching it the way they used to watch it. Or they're watching it in different ways, that's for sure.
Talk about the business of late night right now. Because that used to be the thing to get to.
100%. I will say it was still for me the thing to get to.
And now that I'm here, I have no interest in leaving. Creatively, it's such a wonderful home to be able to do four shows a week where you ultimately are building it from the ground up every day.
Thrilling. I can't imagine replacing it with anything else that would be more exhilarating.
As for the business side, everything you said is very true. And I don't feel like we're being lied to when the network tells us that, you know, ad revenue is down.
I think for us, we are hopeful by the fact that, you know, certainly fewer people are watching us than watch Late Night with Conan O'Brien. But, of course, Conan'brien didn't have 15 million youtube viewers a week right uh by the way i think he would have if there was youtube but so we have these 15 million eyeballs and everybody because i do think it would benefit us all everybody at nbc is i think trying to figure out like what's the way to monetize this and have there be a future of late now?

Now, obviously, if they can't do that, I don't think the future is particularly bright.

But I am hopeful that they're, you know, smart people who are working hard to try to crack that problem.

How do you think they need to win back audiences, particularly young audiences?

Obviously, that's always the focus for advertisers because my kids watch everything.

They watch all of John Oliver, just not at once and not at the time he wants it to be watched.

I mean, again, I... that's always the focus for advertisers because my kids watch everything they watch all of john oliver just not at once and not at the time he wants it to be watched i mean again i don't know what the demographics are of our youtube viewers but my assumption is that's where the younger eyeballs are i mean the very fact that people used to watch these shows myself included at 12 37 because i mean there were no other it wasn't like i i only watched conan because there was no other options but i was watching conan aware of the fact that there were no other options right and um you know i'm never up when my show actually airs but if i was i don't know if i would you know flip on network television as it was airing knowing that i could catch it later.
So your show also streams on Peacock. You also have a podcast version of it.
You're on YouTube. You joked at this year's upfront, said Peacock continues to prove that the easy way to make a billion dollars is to spend eight billion.
It's a fantastic joke. Yeah, yeah, it is.
It's really good. Did they love it when you said it? They did love it.
They weirdly did love it, yeah. Actually, Peacock's doing okay.
Yeah, they're doing all right.

But when you're making these things, do you think about where it's going?

Like, oh, this is a TikTok moment.

Oh, this is social media.

This is YouTube.

I haven't only because – well, look, when we started our show in 2014,

the conventional wisdom for what worked online with these late-night shows was celebrity-driven, music-driven, short.

And then we did the thing we wanted to do, which is a closer look, which is 10 to 15 minutes. Now we did that not thinking there was any future for it online.
With that said, that's what is our biggest hit, no close second. And so that's 15 minutes, three times a week.
Viewership is probably 10 million views a week. And that's the other thing is weirdly, because again, now we have a younger generation who have the patience for podcasts.
I think the YouTube videos they watch are an hour or two hours. So for us, almost 15 minutes is now the new TikTok video for a generation of kids who like to engage with longer form stuff.
Right. Now, you also have recurring segments, which actually lends itself to that.
You have A Closer Look, Ya Burnt, Seth Riders, Amber Says What with Amber Ruffin. The one that really stands out to me is Day Drinking, which is exactly what it sounds like.
You take a guest out drinking for a day. Mostly you get drunk, I think it looks like, from the ones I want.
Some others did. Yeah, they did.
Some others did. You're right up there.
Julie Louis-Dreyfus did not get drunk. No, no.
But you've taken your parents. You have Ina Garten, Rihanna, Lizzo, Dua Lipa, who you nearly killed.
Kristen Stewart. By the way, you look good as a lesbian.
Thank you. I always kind of knew it might be in there.
Yes, you really do. You have that fetching quality, that lesbian quality.
You recently brought Julia Louis-Dreyfus

day drinking. Let's hear what she had to say

about it. Guys,

this show's a terrible idea. This show

is

the worst idea you've ever done

in your life. Don't.
I'm telling

you, man, you're going to get so

sick. Oh, this man,

this is a terrible show, guys. Have you been drinking during the break? It's the stupidest show I've ever done.
So she's whispering at the end there. So this is a stupid show I've done in my life.
But she looked like she was having a really good time. She did have a very good time.
It ended up with her tucking you in for a nap on a dice, on a soft foam dice. Yeah, on a bar floor.
On a bar floor. Talk about how you came up with this segment.
I'm just curious. Again, it's so fun to talk about how you come up with these things because it's never as smart as the idea turned out to be.
So the first one I did was with my brother and we were just trying to find out,

figure out something to do with my brother on the show.

And the first day drinking was a little bit more like-

This is Josh.

My brother, Josh.

Which you have a podcast with, by the way.

We do, family trips.

But it felt like almost like an Anthony Bourdain type,

we're going to travel around the bars of Brooklyn.

It wasn't about binge drinking.

It was about, you know, like the way like you properly day drink. And then weirdly we realized, Oh,

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the, the, the, the, the, the. It was about, you know, like the way like you'd properly day drink.
And then weirdly, we realized, oh, the fun is to stay in one location, come up with dumb games, drink stupid drinks, and just get drunk on camera. Now, I should note to every listener here who's doubting the wisdom of this, we only do it a couple times a year because it's a terrible look.
And obviously, you know, I always say like carpool karaoke is a great bit. And nobody's ever like, buddy, you got to stop singing in cars.
But, you know, this is. And the other problem is post Rihanna, everyone wants to do it.
Yeah. And so you it's so I mean, our talent department's like, could you maybe, could, I mean, it's like, I'm like a, Can you live or take it? I'm like a boxer who clearly has CTE and they're like, can you do one more fight for us, champ? So.
I was worried about you. Yeah.
I mean, I, the other important thing, I barely drink now between them. Yeah.
I've really because— Yeah, because you go for it. I go for it.
I mean, I will say, I did go to a Midwestern school in the binge drinking 90s. You said that during one thing.
I was in a frat. Yeah.
I mean, you can't believe some of these people I've drunk under the table. Who was the best drinker? Rihanna.
Rihanna, yeah. And I should know, this is pre-motherhood Rihanna.

I think she's probably-

Not day drinking anymore.

Slowed down like the best of us, yeah.

Yeah.

You mentioned your brother, Josh.

Let's talk about podcasting.

You have named touched to four of them, if we include your late night-

Is that four?

Yeah, your late night pod.

Okay, I got it.

You got there.

You also did Strike Force 5, a gaggle of late night host.

You co-host a show with your brother, Josh, about family trips.

You would bring in celebrities and talk about their family trips. You just launched a new show with the Lonely Island guys.
Talk about podcasting. Do you look at it differently? Are you surprised by how many comics have moved to it? In fact, it's become the most lucrative part of their repertoire.
Jason Bateman talked about this. Yeah.
I was obviously way behind the curve. And when the boom started, I remember my agents coming and saying, would you want to do a podcast? And I remember thinking, I don't want to.
First of all, I feel like they're done, right? Like this, you know, again, like, you know, Cone is doing it, Smart List is doing it. I don't want to interview other people.
I interview people on my show. And I don't want to try to, like, chase a thing other people are doing better.
And then, you know, one of the realities was, again, I was always looking for something to do with my show like and i don't want to try to like chase a thing other people are doing better and then you know one of the realities was again i was always looking for something to do with my brother and uh when the writer's strike happened i had all this free time and it's it's possible to do a podcast while you also have a late night show it's really hard to start one while you have a late night show and so i was just glad like sort of those uh during that like um like bummer of whatever it was, four months, we managed to get a couple on their feet. And mostly- You have 77 of those family trips, I think.
Yeah, we're doing good. And I will say the nice thing about it, and I know this is like one of your friends, Scott Galloway's talking points, like men don't have friends.
Yeah. But like, it's amazing how like my brother and I,

who I would say is my closest friend,

we like talk two minutes a week.

Yeah.

Like, and then my wife would be like, what's he up to?

I'm like, I have no idea.

I don't even know what he said.

And so now I get to spend, you know,

an hour a week with my brother.

It's so great.

Yeah.

And then the Lonely Island guys

who are three of my closest friends.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is Andy Samberg, Akiva Schaefer, Schaefer, and Yorma. Takoni.
Takoni. It's a comedy trio of The Lonely Island.
You wrote back with them at SNL and the four of you tell the story behind making all the shorts. Yeah.
Every one of your podcasts is kind of stunty. You know what I mean? Yes.
How did you come up with this idea? That was, and again, part of the stunty nature is not wanting to just be redundant to the market. These, you know, it was like I realized there were, again, behind the curve, all behind the curve Myers.
But I was realizing, oh, there's this sort of, you know, recap podcasts. You know, you know, there were the office girls were uh always sunny and i basically

just reached out to the lonely island guys and said you guys should do one of these because um people are interested in how you make people are interested in how you make stuff and uh and then they were kind enough to say oh we've been trying to figure out a podcast that's a great idea would you host it for us and so uh mostly for me and again it's talking to three guys I love. And then it's fun.
I like talking about that era of my life being with those creative people because it's not just the shorts. It bleeds over to our time at SNL and that wonderful cast and that group of writers.
And it's a process show. And I think for – you know, I don't think it's for everybody, but I think for young people, I think for people who live through it, I think it's really fun to remember.

And I think for young people who just like talking about comedy, I think it's a really helpful tool.

What do you think about what happened with SmartList? Were you surprised? Were you like, fuck? I mean, I'm mostly just very impressed. It is, you know, it's also sometimes you just have to step back and just tip your cap to the perfect alchemy of that group of three guys.
You know, they have a natural friendship and they slide into it's like you would cast a show about three guys. And, you know, vocally, I mean, that's one of the things my brother and I are up against identical voices.
Yeah. Whereas those guys, you know, they just they just fall into their role.
I mean, you know, vocally, I mean, that's one of the things my brother and I are up against. Identical voices.
Yeah. Whereas those guys, you know, they just fall into their role.
So, I mean, you know, I'm friends with Dax Shepard as well. Who has a show, for people who don't know.
Yeah, Armchair Expert. And you, a very successful show.
And you sort of first hear about it and you think to yourself, what? How? And then you listen to it and you're like, oh, yeah, he's just a great broadcaster. And you just realize.
And it's so funny how, you know, the idea of broadcasting, I think, obviously has changed. But at the end of the day, you just want to, you know, whether it's watching or listening, you just want to be with people you trust and like.
You should do one with your wife. I would like to do one with my wife.
You should. I think she's very dry.
She's so dry. She's so dry.

She's very funny.

I was like,

I need a fucking drink of water

after talking to her.

She's very funny though.

Give her time.

I never feel insecure

and I was like,

what does she think of me?

Oh, it's not good?

I imagine what it's like

to live with her.

Yeah, I imagine.

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So I want to finish up by talking about politics. Yeah.
Go back to to the material some critics say the left-leaning bent on late night shows is part of why the format has declined in relevance for example you stephen colbert jimmy kimmel and john stewart are all openly liberal progressive might turn off half the country talk about being accessible to all americans because right now fox's late night show gutfeld has the rated quarter ever. He regularly beats a lot of broadcast late night shows.
Yeah, but that's like that's slanted, too, right? Well, yes, it is. But he's the only one.
He's the sort of right wing unicorn. Sure.
But like you, we're all just authentically being who ourself is. I'm assuming he's saying what he believes and we're saying what we believe.
But talk about that, because you've got a very split population right now and they have found someone like Gutfeld. Obviously his book, King of Light, Nate, is a big book.
Yeah. Great.
Yeah. I mean, look, I'm happy there's choices for an audience, but I kind of, look, I think that our show actually works better because people tune in and are seeing a person be authentic.
I would argue that if we were doing a talk show from, let's say, the mid 90s, where it was just desk pieces and no point of view, I think those would be the shows that would be off the air right now. Off the air.
Yeah. So yes think that you could also say i think the i i will not deny obviously right there's a decline in linear ratings yeah i'm hitting a tiny nerve here i feel like no no you're not hitting it i just think that look there's a lot of i mean again we i think the reason ratings are down is because there's more options for everybody right like everybody says like oh johnny carson worked because he was the only one right but also he was the only one there was no netflix there's no streaming and there was no cable and you know so uh i'm not saying he wasn't the best that ever did it he definitely was but um you know part of it is environment i just don't believe that if i wasn't talking about i first of all i just want to do a show where i don't talk about politics right there's other choices for people who yeah yeah you talk about a lot of things but politics is important and you do it a lot on the show and it's the biggest part by far yeah in your lobby uh baby special 2019 you had netflix include a button that allowed viewers who might be turned off by political comedy to skip over the section let's play a clip from that section i'll say is i feel like the jokes are the only good part about living through the Trump era.

The only good part.

I mean, living through the Trump era without any jokes would be like

getting a prostate exam

and not wanting the results.

Let me tell you what we found.

No, no, that's not what I'm here for.

I'm gonna be here tomorrow, get you back up in there, though.

It's also very strange for me because based on the kind of show I do,

and because it's a show about politics,

people have been coming up to me so much over the last two years

and saying, oh, my God, this Trump presidency must be so good for you. How good is this Trump presidency for you? The same is true for the news business.
How do you deal with that? Is this Trump presidency the potential erosion of democracy being good for late night? Look, I'm very I don't think it'll be. I you know, we went into we don't when Trump joined the race in 2015.
It was like, ha ha, so funny. Like I was guilty as anybody else thinking like this is what a delight right you know and then you know we were doing a lot of close looks and it was a lot about him and a lot of hillary and like we had no expectation he was going to win but then we were ready for the moment because we had been doing you know we'd learned how to like turn over content fast and um but i did not uh i did not enjoy um those uh four years and i I certainly don't want to do it again.
And I do worry as well that audiences will just be so bummed out. Yeah.
So, yeah. I mean, look, we're going to – again, the only way we know how to react to it is authentically.
But I do not in any way, shape, or form think to myself like, oh, I'm not rubbing my hands together being like, oh, maybe we'll get lucky in another four years. Even with Arnold Palmer.
I mean, look, we're doing this on a Monday. So I'm pretty sure Arnold Palmer will show up in the show tonight.
You can use Cocktober Surprise if you'd like. Oh, that's good.
That's very nice. Yeah, anytime.
I don't think you can say that on Monday. Can you? You can.
They just beep us. Nobody's watching.
So, well, then it's not funny. But do you look at your business in light of a win by Harris versus Trump? You don't look forward to that.
No. I, I, and I hope you believe me.
I really just care for, like, the country. Right.
Like, we'll be, I think we can, we'll find comedy wherever this breaks. Yeah.
And I'm not worried about that. And so my concerns for the outcome of this election

are, you know. Much more serious.
Much more serious. Well, and dangerous.
Speaking of which,

we had an expert to call on a question for you just on this topic. Let's listen.

Hi, I'm Samantha Bee, former host of Full Frontal with Samantha Bee, current host of the Daily Beast

podcast and Choice Words with Samantha Bee. The big question I would ask Seth is this.
What's your over-under on the continued existence of late-night television in its current form, given A, the horrendous contraction of the industry in general, and B, the looming specter of, God forbid, a second Trump presidency and the vengeance that he is promising. Seth, he does not like you.
And you know, under Putin, the comedy shows were among the first to go. Cheerful.
Thank you, Seth. I adore you.
And I adore you, Kara, as well. So.
That's so nice to hear from Samantha. Yeah, she's great.
So what's the over-under? You already talked about the contraction in the industry, but this is true. He has promised retribution.
He doesn't like Seth Meyers. He doesn't like all kinds.
He doesn't like Jon Stewart. He doesn't, and aims at them a little bit.
Yeah.

I mean, he does kind of have a lot of other things he's supposed to get to first.

Right.

You know.

But she's right.

Comedy under Putin is the, they used to have a very thriving and part of the culture there.

Yeah.

Well, I don't, there's no real way to prepare for that one way or the other.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Do you think about holding back or do you? No. No.
What would be your tone if he wins? I guess it's about how he wins. Right.
Right. I mean, to some degree you have to, you know, the country is going to tell us what they want on election day.
And we're going to respond to that. You know, is it, it you know it could be based on how big a victory it is for either candidate where you get a sense of of where you're at uh i think what we found from our show and again i'm not being coy but like we react our show's the best when we react to the moment as it's happening as opposed to try to game out you know two plus weeks you know going to write it this way.
If this happens, we're going to write it this way if that happens. So what are you preparing for for the election? How are you? We're not really, I mean, we just, you're just going to go.
We just watch what happens and we write fast, you know, and it's part of what makes this job so fun is you don't, you can't get ahead of it. If you are committed to the idea of we're going to write a show about the last 24 hours, like that's where our show has the most value.
You know, we appreciate that, you know, a closer look, we'll get 2 million views in the first two, sorry, the first 24 hours. And then, you know, none after because it's like a newspaper.
So there's no, and again, it's not not like we have uh you know it's not like we're putting journalists out in the field to like do exit polling we're just gonna you know react to what we see i have a couple more questions speaking of sam b um lack of diversity in late night still is an issue the shows are very male and very white full frontal with sam b for example lily soon's a little late amber ruffin show with Chelsea Handler's Pogans, have been canceled. You were executive producer of The Amber Ruffin Show.
Very talented comic. She's amazing.
And she's working with Roy Wood and Michael Ian Black. At CNN.
I'm going to be on that show. Oh, great.
But hers got canceled after three seasons. Why has that happened still? Because there's been efforts.
Like, a lot of people say there hasn't been effort. I'm like, yes, there have.
And lots of them. You know, I think with Amber, look, it was Peacock.
It was early Peacock. It was launched during the pandemic.
There were a lot of things working against it. I think it might have a better chance now that Peacock's doing better.
But again, yeah, it was a really good show. You know, critics liked it and it was nominated for awards.
And so for us, it was frustrating that it didn't take off. But it also, you know, you just kind of go back to the drawing board.
You know, we're still working with Amber trying to figure out what's the best use of her talents. Obviously, we're thrilled to have her at our show.
She's an integral part of what we're doing here, along with her partner, Jenny Hagel, and the two of them do jokes that can't tell together. But yeah, I mean, I ultimately like we, you know, when we were realized we were lucky enough to have a show like this, and when we had somebody as talented as Amber, we are trying to do everything we can to get voices like her out there.
But it is frustrating. Two more questions.
One is about AI. I kind of have to.
Yeah. Okay, great.
I bet it'll be unrewarding, but I'm glad you're asking. So assume Trump does not kill you.
On another podcast, Strike Force 5, that you and other late-night hosts started during the Hollywood Strikes, you did help support writers and crews that were out of work. That's over now.
But the issues remain, including AI, which was a big issue in it. Do you have any thoughts about AI in comedy?

Do you use it? Do you think about it? No, I don't use it. I'm sure it's a tool.
I'm sure people in comedy will start using it. I think it will probably at some point.
look I'm not

you know

I'm not so ignorant as to think it won't

replace bad comedy writing you know i'm sure at some point it'll be able to do that um and then ultimately i think it's the responsibility of good comedy writers to stay ahead of it you know look if it if it's better they're gonna use it yeah you know and there we can do about it. Right.
And are you using it? I haven't used anything, no. I just had Robert Downey Jr.
on the show about the show McNeil, which you should see, which is about just that. The idea of it getting better and better as we get worse and worse.
But you don't use it at all. I don't use it at all.
You don't use it at all. I don't even, I'm going to tell you something.
What? I don't even know how I would go about using it, Kara. I can help you.
It's really easy. It's like someone who told me I don't use the internet.
What's a web browser? I know, I get it. But like, am I better off for using the internet? I don't know.
I think so. I want somebody to teach me how to like forge my own iron.
Okay. For the end times.
Yeah. For the end times.
Seeds. I want somebody to tell me how to save seeds.
So, last question. I also left out a comic book you did with Bill Hader.
You're very manic about all different things of creation. I like doing stuff, yeah.
Yeah, you do. It's important to stay relevant, I think, or try different things.
Stretch different muscles. Stretch different muscles.
Diversify. Diversify.

So if you were starting your comedy career right now, what would you be doing? It's so interesting because I always say, you know, and again, you know, certainly as we're living through this, you know, it's very fraught time for people my age in this business. And, you know, one of the, I feel like things we always repeat is, thank God we started when we did.
that always just sort of ignores the fact that like the younger generation they have they're

resolute and they're, you know, they're full of the same imagination we had. And it's just, they're going to figure out the tools and they're going to figure out how to do it.
And I do believe we're going to see bursts of creativity from every generation. I, you know, it just scares me the idea of like, oh, wow.
So, you know, you got to generate your own material.

And then if it's a hit,

now you're on this treadmill

of constantly having to feed this beast that you started.

Now, of course, you know,

maybe they would be, you know,

I explained to them like,

what we used to do is move to Chicago

and hope to get on stage.

And they'd be like, what the fuck are you talking about?

Like, I can do this in my, why would I leave my, I'm doing this in my basement by myself. And you're like, okay, that, you know, so what I re I'm, I try very hard to remember that as crazy as it seems to me, like what we did was crazy.
Yeah. Uh, and, uh, so I'm glad that, uh, I know I, when you say like, what would I be doing? I know it wouldn't be what I did 30 years ago right which was moved to Chicago it's literally be like I'm gonna hang out I'll get a job waiting tables and I'll hope like I'll wait every six months there's auditions for second city like that wasn't a good plan yeah um but it worked out for a lot of people um and uh I you know I do you know the one thing I hope for the younger generation who and, I do think they're making great stuff, right? I see young people do things on TikTok all the time that blow my mind.
I hope they're not lonely because so much of the great part of my career was collaboration. And it wasn't always great, but, you know, I got put on an improv troupe with like nine strangers.
And, you know, three of them are still my friends today. And again, that completely comes from a place of ignorance.
And maybe they would all tell me, no, it's great. Well, you know, we all, there is a community.
But that is the part that worries me because so much of what has been good about my life in comedy has been the people I've met and the laughter I've experienced off camera, you know, in a writer's room, you know, at an SNL table read while stuff is bombing. Like those were so informative and instructive.
And so I do wish that for the younger generation. Yeah.
You know, I was going to ask, what do you miss? And I think you just answered it. I do miss that.
I mean, it is, you know, look, it's great having your own show and a door you can close. Like, I love it so much.
Like, I'm also somebody who enjoys time by themselves. But, you know, people always say, do you miss SNL? And I'm like, I miss being that age.
Like, I don't want to be at SNL now. But I miss that, you know, being around a group of people where we all sort of felt like the arrow was pointing up and you were surrounded by, you know, I do feel like I knew, I think these people are going to be in charge of comedy for the next 10 years.
And I wasn't wrong. Yeah.
In fact, you're right. Yeah.
Are you going to be in charge of SNL? No. No.
Okay. I don't think Lauren's ever going to leave.
And I think when he does, lights out. Yeah, right.
That's true. So your special is out this weekend.
It's called Dad Man Walking. I stayed up until 3 a.m.
watching it. It was great.
Oh, my God. It was really good.
It was good. Well, go check it out on Max or wherever you watch HBO and stuff like that.
Seth, as usual, you're incredibly thoughtful, and I really appreciate you being here. Thank you, Kara.

This was delightful.

Thank you.

Substantive.

We try to do so.

That's my thing.

Do you know that substantive is a word

that we had to take out of scripts

because I can't say it right?

Oh, really?

Say it.

I like always substantive.

I constantly say substantive,

and the writers have just, they just sigh.

Can you say it with an Italian accent?

Substantivo.

Substantive.

Okay.

No, no, substantive.

German?

Substantive.

Watch the show.

You'll know what we're talking about.

He will not say it with an African or Pakistani accent.

I will not.

Anyway, thank you so much and good luck with it.

Thank you. On with Kara Swisher is produced by Christian Castro-Russell, Kateri Yoakum, Jolie Myers, Megan Burney and Kaylin Lynch.
Nishat Kirwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Special thanks to Claire Hyman, Sheena Ozaki and Kate Gallagher.
Our engineers are Rick Kwan and Fernando Arruda, and our theme music is by Trachademics.

If you're already following the show, you can come forge iron with me and Seth Meyers in the apocalypse.

If not, ask ChatGPT to write your jokes.

Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for On with Kara Swisher, and hit follow.

Thanks for listening to On with Kara Swisher from New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us. We'll be back on Monday with more.
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