The Secret Life of the Greatest Mascot in Sports

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out.

I am Pablo Torre and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

I broke my back one time doing a dunk.

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So there are some episodes, Ken, that I've been wanting to do forever since before the show launched.

And this is one of them.

I've been chasing you.

You know this.

I want people to appreciate this.

I've been chasing you for a while.

It's been over a year, yeah.

But I guess for people who don't know your alter ego, Ken Solomon, thank you for being here in studio, by the way.

My pleasure.

How do you describe what you did for 33 years?

I told people for a long time that I played dress up for a living.

I just found, by the way, the other day, I was going through some boxes.

I found my first credential.

It says Ken Solomon, entertainment guy.

I just made stuff up all the time.

I was having fun.

That's all technically accurate.

Yeah.

And yet wildly insufficient for why i've been chasing you for a year there was a reason why i was i was paid not to speak for 33 years so

at what point do you reveal your true alter ego

right now

I'm going to workshop your cocktail party response to, hey, what do you do?

You were the greatest mascot in sports.

Wow.

Let alone the longest tenured mascot in the NBA, let alone the most athletic, the most memorable, the guy whose highlight reel is as good as any players.

What was your all-three egos' name?

Rocky.

So I just got to jump in here to point out that the presently calm voice of Ken Solomon does belie the wildly kinetic absurdity of his alter ego, Rocky the Mountain Lion.

The spirit admiral of the Denver Nuggets and mascot Hall of Famer and documented enemy.

by the way of multiple basketball hall of famers and rocky of course, has never uttered a single word.

And so his truly unique acrobatics, from the reverse half-court shots to all of the parkouring around the Pepsi Center, to the climbing to the roof of the building, all of that is what spoke for him.

But the initial spark for this episode wasn't even one of...

Rocky's death-defying maneuvers.

It was an unforgettably bizarre and incredibly viral example of what looked to be the opposite, actually,

as you'll see in a bit here.

Which is all to say that what I wanted to find out today was the secret life of the human being deep inside that suit.

Why couldn't you talk about being Rocky for so long?

I really lived this character.

And back when I started, there were no real rules about

mascots.

We were making it up at the time.

It was the Wild West of mascots back then.

When I was hired, we discussed this,

the Nuggets and I, and we ended up just deciding, hey,

let's keep this mute.

I was more for that than they were.

And

they hadn't really even thought about it.

But I said,

I want to do it this way.

I thought it would build the mystique of the character.

When Rocky was first introduced, they told the whole story with a news thing.

It was a pre-recorded thing, but it looked live.

And they said, ladies and gentlemen, there's been a big storm.

And people all of a sudden got up and left.

There were probably about a thousand people that got up and left the game, literally to go take care of their livestock.

This is like War of the Worlds.

When they announced like an alien invasion on the radio, people were like, oh, shit, I got to go.

I got to go save my family.

Right.

That's what they were doing.

And the suit.

Can you describe what it felt like to climb into it?

What's the sensation of inhabiting it?

When I was in college, I was a college mascot as well.

There is a sensation.

There is a change that happens.

There was a character.

There was a personality.

There was a, you know, and a lot of what you see

is

the guy on the inside, that's his personality on steroids.

I mean, you're not going to really do anything that's not deep inside you.

You push out the personality, and it takes a lot to push that out.

You communicate physically, which I had a history of, you know, growing up that way.

My heroes were Shields and Yarnell.

They were a couple.

They had a variety show.

So I started miming when I was a kid because of Shields and Yarnell.

The origin story of you, let alone the origin story of Rocky, these are stories that, trajectories that converge because you being obsessed with essentially with miming and the question of how do I get to express myself without speaking.

You know, for me, it was,

I was terrible in school and always

thinking outside the box and was at a baseball game in Las Vegas, the stars baseball game, and the San Diego chicken was there.

And it just clicked for me.

I'm doing that.

I'm doing that.

How did your parents react when you said, I want to...

I want to be the San Diego chicken one day.

And they were all for it.

They were always pushing the the boundaries themselves.

My dad was a cheerleader in high school and in college.

I mean, he taught me how to rappel when I was 11.

When I was eight years old,

he let me and my brother and my sister hike across the Mojave Desert by ourselves, 110 miles.

Jesus.

They were very supportive.

My dad built and my mother sewed.

My high school mascot costume.

So this is a family business in a sense.

This was a production that everybody got to supporting.

Yeah.

Is a pretty unique bit of wiring for someone who becomes the longest-handed mascot in NBA history who cannot talk.

I literally felt more comfortable in his skin than my own.

When did the degree of acrobatic ambition enter the picture?

Because Rocky, to me, is synonymous with the batch crazy stuff

that you would do, which I believe to be unparalleled.

And there's some amazing mascots in sports.

Amazing.

But the stuff that you would do, I want to run through some of it because did you design that

the stunts?

How did that become key to what you were?

A lot of trial and error.

A lot of the collaborating that I did around the office, surrounding myself with good assistants.

We did a halftime one time that was the okay-go video with all the treadmills.

Yes.

My assistant was like, hey, man, how big can we go?

And pretty soon, he had, what, eight treadmills being delivered?

Which of the stunts was the hardest one?

Get set!

Go!

I had this thing where I'd climb.

I was always trying to take things to the next level.

You made me

love climbing.

He's going all the way up.

So I would climb up to the top of the arena, and I said, How can I push this?

How can I take this to the next level?

Well, I found that there was a door at the very top of one of the sections that went out on to the top of the building.

So I thought,

What if I run from center court, climb to the top, go out the door, clip in, rappel down

the side of the building, unclip, run back through the hallways, get back to center court in one break?

I didn't get to center court, but I got to the edge of the court.

Like during a timeout?

During a timeout.

Yeah.

Good God.

Yeah, that was exhausting.

Other mascots weren't doing this.

You know that.

Yeah.

At a certain point, it felt like you were just challenging yourself.

I was.

I was.

I wasn't in, I wasn't in competition with anybody else.

It was just, what's something fun, crazy that you wouldn't normally think of doing?

Right.

It's like, okay, I could

shoot from half court

or

I could do it backwards.

It's just absurd.

I mean, at one point, like you mastered roller skating.

I was roller skating since I could walk.

Of course you could.

Yeah.

You wrote a motorcycle.

Which was your favorite?

Which was the one that you are like,

this is, if I have one highlight that I want to be remembered for, it is this one.

Stuff with Charles Barkley.

Amazing.

Amazing.

That was magic.

How did did that start?

What's the origin story of your feud with Charles Barkley?

Okay, so at the time, Charles was, he was the bad guy.

He was, he, you know, he was making news

off the court.

He was throwing people through windows.

One game, because he's, you know, walking around, I kept taunting him a little bit, like, you know, hey, you know, just...

throwing a little jab as I walked by.

Pantomime.

Yes, yes.

Like a boxer's stats.

Yes, yes.

And then I finally, later in the game, drew a line in the sand, so to speak, on the court.

And

he's like,

stops, he looks at me.

He's like, yeah.

It's cool, man.

All right.

Come on.

Come on.

No, come on.

Let's let's shake on this.

Let's shake.

Oh, okay, great.

Yeah, I walk over.

Shake his go to shake his hand.

He grabs me, pulls me in, boom,

pops me in the face.

And literally, my knees buckle.

I'm out.

Deemed me for just a second.

The next thing I remember is the referee standing over me saying, get off the court.

We're trying to play professional basketball.

Right.

And the unconscious body of this mountain lion

is no way.

Yeah, he thinks I'm just, you know, playing it up.

Right.

Doing a bit.

Yeah.

I go back in my room, take the head off, and I'm looking in the mirror and my lower lip is just quivering because my nose is bleeding, my tooth is loose.

I've got my lips are bleeding.

He hit me.

And I thought, is he really that guy?

It just didn't ring true to me.

So

I collected my thoughts for a second.

I go, you know what?

No, I need to find out.

I need to find out now.

I need to find out tonight.

Get me my stilts.

I yell to my assistant.

Give me my stilts.

Get my stilts.

Get my stilts.

He's like, What are you doing?

I'm like, I'm going out there on my stilts.

I'm gonna find out how far he's gonna take this.

Let's go.

I go out there and I stand next to the huddle almost.

Like, I stand next to the I get near the bench,

and then I'm doing the Fred Sanford, you know,

thing.

You know, come on, come on.

And

sure enough, he walks over, looks me up and down,

and goes for my crotch.

But he doesn't hit me.

You know, doesn't make contact, makes it look like it.

And, oh, I stumble and I grab my crotch and I'm like, oh, this is, whoa, you know.

But I knew right then

he gets it.

This guy gets it.

So.

The very next game, I said, this is what I want to do.

I want to full on set it up like it's a fight.

Yep.

Of course.

Of course, my guys were like, no, no, no, no.

You're not doing that.

Nope.

They said, absolutely not, because the chances of him actually doing something with you, nil.

Oh, they doubted.

They doubted your scouting report

having just gone through this very unique bonding ritual.

Yeah.

Charles Barkley.

I said, no, no, no, no.

You don't understand.

I absolutely know he will come out.

He will punch me.

He will do something.

There will be an altercation, and I'll take it.

Round one, Charles quickly drops Rocky to the hardwood.

Who said anything about a fair fight?

Sure enough, he walks out, jumps up in the air.

Boom.

Hits me in the face.

I turn like a tree going down.

Wham.

You are so thrilled recounting the story of how Charles Barkley kept punching you in the face.

Oh, it was on after that.

I mean, like, literally, he would stop in my room after that,

you know, game after game.

He's, what are we doing tonight?

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This smooth, flavorful cognac is crafted from the finest grapes and aged to perfection, giving you rich notes of oak and caramel with every sip.

Whether you're celebrating a big win or simply enjoying some cocktails with family and friends, Remy Martin 1738 is the perfect spirit to elevate any occasion.

So go ahead, treat yourself to a little luxury, and try Remy Martin 1738 Accord Royale.

Learn more at remymartin.com.

Remy Martin Cognac, Veeen Champain, a 4000 Alcohol by Volume, reported by Remy Control, USA, Incorporated in York, New York, 1738, Centaur Design.

Please drink responsibly.

Has any other player embraced your calling the way that Barkley did?

Shaq was great.

I was at the Hall of Game Awards, the Hall of Game Awards by Cartoon Network.

I was up for Most Awesome Mascot.

So I was on stage with he and Nick Cannon

in California.

An incredible mad lib so far.

And there was, you know, there was all kinds of stuff on that the stage was built for.

There was, you know, bicycles and there was a, you know, foam pit.

And when I won, I ran over and I jumped in Shaq's arms.

And I said, throw me in the pit.

Throw me in the pit.

He's like, what?

Throw me in the pit.

I'm being held underneath my armpits.

And he tosses me

like I was a little kid.

I literally giggled.

As I'm flying through the air.

It was a flashback of when my dad would throw me in the pool.

Yeah.

It was the craziest feeling to have this massive man toss me like I was a little child.

It was awesome.

But

that's the through line, the emotional through line, it seems like through your whole career is that you're chasing

a feeling that only children typically get to experience.

Yeah.

Was there anybody who hated your guts?

Players who are like

actually Russell

Yeah, feelings mutual.

Explain Russ's attitude towards you.

I don't, I, I,

he's pretty intense.

I've noticed so far.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was throwing a half-court shot one time, and he just goes out there and blocks it.

You've missed it.

Rocky takes his half-court shot.

Westbrook intercepting it

twice

and then threw it into the crowd.

Oh, I just stared at him, pointed at him all the way off the court.

Like, yeah, dude, it's on now.

And then, uh,

yeah, personally, I approached him later.

That did not go well.

Oh, wait, as Ken or as Robin?

As, yeah, yeah, personally, after as Ken Zalman, yeah, a couple weeks later.

And how did that conversation proceed?

There was no conversation.

I wanted to like laugh and joke with him about it.

Yeah, he was not going to even talk to me.

Wow.

Yeah.

What an ass.

Glad you said that.

I didn't say that.

Russell Lesbrook, I do need to point out here, is now on the Denver Nuggets.

He just signed there in July.

And, you know, there's no word yet on whether Russ also wants to knock Rocky out like Charles Barkley once did.

But this does bring me back around to my initial curiosity about this foam mounted lion, which was

an admittedly hilarious viral clip that I've been sending to my friends for years now.

Rocky is going 5,315 feet in the air.

You can see Rocky being lowered from the ceiling, ostensibly repelling here, except he is visibly limp, seemingly unconscious, honestly, except for his enormous white eyes, which happily remain as always

wide open

when I finally looked at the footage of that I was like oh I just cringed yeah that really did look bad what what happened Ken

so

I had practiced this bit

coming I wanted to come down and like act like I was landing on the moon type of thing.

We'd practice this, get in position.

I'm clipping this harness on while and i've also got the full body harness underneath they put the rope through my collar

clip in

go go go they open the gate step out on the i beam go go go step off the i beam

and all of a sudden i realized my jacket was zipped up still

I was supposed to unzip it.

So

if you can imagine the rope going through your collar.

You're pantomiming a noose right now.

Yes, yes.

And all of a sudden, that collar is just digging into my neck.

It was the collar.

It was the collar.

What a thing to find out on this show.

Yeah.

It was the collar.

It was the collar.

Yeah.

And all I thought was,

I,

that is, that hurts so bad.

Oh my gosh, that is cutting into my neck.

Oh, my gosh.

I, that hurts.

Ow.

I cannot wait to get down.

That was it.

that was the last thing you remember yeah I mean I was out that fast ow wow it was like a full-on like MMA chokehold ow

and the next thing you recall after that is what I woke up on the cord it's all black and I hear so faintly

Rocky are you okay

Rocky, are you okay?

And it starts getting louder.

Rocky, are you okay?

And then all of a sudden, it just goes, whoa,

like it just came all of a sudden loud and my eyes were opening.

And I hear, you know, really loud, Ken, are you okay?

And I jumped up, slapped my guy on the back right there and said, I'm going to go in the back.

Took off from this.

Yeah.

So this is where I feel obliged to remind you that Rocky the Mountain Lion's human identity was kept secret by rule for more than 30 years.

More than 30 years.

Okay?

That is how seriously some pro sports franchises take mascot culture.

And so Ken's culture, which was older than any other mascots in the history of pro basketball, was in fact his costume.

As much as anybody in sports history, Ken Solomon was a method mascot.

Which also means, it turns out, that he was kind of a professional athlete himself.

Your job was to not let people see the man inside.

Right.

Right.

Which was a duty, a sacred duty that you treated with, of course, all of the gravity of like,

this is part of the deal.

Yeah.

People always ask, well,

you know, what if you were sick?

What if you got hurt?

It's not an option.

There's no, there's no, we had, I had no backup at the time, you know, forever.

I broke my back one time doing a dunk.

Broke my back.

Made my way off the court before I collapsed.

And

I was out for eight weeks.

Jeez.

L3 and 4.

Jesus Christ.

Yeah, shattered from a dunk.

Was it worth it?

Heck yeah.

I mean, I, for years and years and years,

for the next 20 years.

Hey, man, I remember when you broke your back.

You good still?

People don't even know that half the time I was on an IV after a game

or breaking down just sobbing after a game because

I gave everything.

I gave everything.

I hadn't considered the idea that for a player, of course, we're used to seeing them, you know,

famous photographs of Kobe Bryant sobbing, Michael Jordan sobbing.

They win the finals.

They win the title and they're on the floor sobbing.

Finally, a release.

I did not appreciate that for you as Rocky, as an NBA mascot, your championship would not necessarily be the literal championship.

It would be seemingly a random night in the winter, maybe, when you pulled off something that no one had seen before and almost killed yourself to do it.

And seemingly, of course,

you had no choice for it but to be private.

Privately, you got to finally like release what you had

been essentially penning inside yourself my son found some footage the other day that he had taken

some years ago where

i was doing the nutcracker

please explain

tights the tutu wig

fairy wings and um you know rocky's introduced as the sugar plum fairy

The bit is go out there,

run around, I, you know, grab referees' butts and, you know,

flute around.

And there's a balance beam on the court that has been brought out.

I end up getting up on the balance beam, doing this little thing, and then

at the crescendo, I drop

on the beam,

straddling it, and then slowly fall off to the side, bam, land on the ground, grabbing my crotch, and the announcer says, ladies and gentlemen,

pace comes apart.

I walk, walk, you know, stumbling and

get back to the curtain.

I come out of character at that point.

walk back to the room,

take off

the head, and the footage is me just hacking and coughing.

I've got, and I remember, oh my gosh, I got 104 fever.

I was so sick.

You know, nobody knows that.

That was your flu game.

Yeah, that was.

Except instead of, you know, scoring a zillion points, you dropped your testicles onto a balance beam and then proceeded to privately hack up the contents of your respiratory system.

Yeah.

That was

the norm, though.

We didn't, I didn't have, you know, I didn't have,

there was no backup.

I underrated.

Even as a fan of your work from afar, the degree to which your life has been an athlete's life

with injury and recovery your existence was pressurized in the way that a public performer's career was on the court

but largely conducted in secret because no one actually knew because you couldn't say it verbalize it what was happening in there it was a good thing though I could still go to the grocery store and overhear people talking about, you know, they saw Rocky do this.

It was great to be a fly on the wall a lot of times.

But I imagine, right?

I imagine as someone who does a job that is very explicitly,

here I am, here's my name in the show, here's my face.

I would find it frustrating.

The idea that

people only know the alter ego.

They don't know the person inside.

And it sounds like you made peace with that, but I'm wondering when it wore on you, the idea of

I'm also,

I'm also me.

To be honest with you, there were times when I was frustrated with what was being reported in the media.

One of the most,

I would say, unique news cycles in

basketball media was, I mean, certainly around what Rocky got paid.

Oh, yes.

Dun dun.

Dun dun dun.

Can we fact check this?

Oh,

you you can.

Yeah, you can try.

Well, well, look, what was reported was that Rocky was making $625,000 a year.

This now, given the larger context of every story you've told me, feels like you are underpaid.

Well, thank you.

I appreciate that.

But what can be said about this?

Because this sparked all sorts of conversation around like what?

People who didn't know what it is that you did and for how long and and what it cost you your body people are like this is insane or all mascots paid this way how did that all feel to you it was interesting you know the nuggets they helped me raise my family

and uh so i'm neither going to confirm nor deny that wow but uh the nuggets were good to me yeah yeah yeah yeah i just like how the guy who um

almost killed himself falling off of the top of a building was like

this one I'm going to play very carefully.

This is the bridge too far.

Yes, yes.

I'm going to keep that one right here.

What are the other things that frustrated you when it came to things that were reported in public that

made you think, if only I could speak, if only people did know that Ken was in here?

Well, there's one out there that is, you know, Rocky went to a Republican rally or whatever.

I'm like, wait, I got hired for an appearance and it was actually before the rally and it was just, you know, Rocky there warming up the crowd.

You know, of course, the media

spun that and took it sideways.

What political party is Rocky registered with, Ken?

This is what I've come to find out.

Oh, my God.

What is Rocky's voting record?

I'm like, well, wait a second.

Come on, you guys.

Anybody that pays,

I'll go to their rally.

I don't care.

You know, whatever.

Rock here does not endorse this message.

I will, though,

do some backflips.

Right.

There you go.

So, and I followed the rules that were set out by my company.

Look, don't, you know, don't take a picture with any politicians.

Don't, you know,

make sure you're gone before the rally starts.

You know, this is, yeah, you know, so I did all that.

Bro, what do people not understand from the outside about this line of work?

What's the number one thing to you that feels egregious that people are just missing when it comes to what you did?

That there's

an actual person in there.

When did that get the most frustrating?

Oh, man.

How many times are you going to pull my tail?

How many times do I have a parent say,

go, go pull his tail?

Go pull his tail.

Go pull it.

What a mascot is

and does, I guess, is a mascot

is the person that everybody wants to be but can't be or gets to do what everybody wants to do but can't.

So they think that they can do whatever they want to a mascot

as well.

You're like the god of rambunctious children.

Yeah.

Well, hold on.

In fairness to them, I think they're trying to do what you did to Charles Barkley.

They're thinking, we, I thought this was fair game, right?

Yes, a lot of times they think it's fair game.

But you reacted with the sentiment of an actual mountain lion, it sounds like, who had its tail pulled.

You're like, no.

Or I would just swing my leg back and

give him a swift kick.

Don't pull that.

Well, that's the other part about being a mascot

is that like you can also get away with some stuff.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

As long as you pull it off the right way.

How does one pull off

beating up a fan the right way?

Because I've seen you.

I've seen you hit some fans with pies, with some cakes.

Mm-hmm.

What's the key?

What's what's the key to threading the needle of I am doing something to someone and they're liking it?

They don't necessarily need to like it.

You just have to do it the right way.

So for example,

inevitably every game, you know, Rocky, get out of the way.

Rocky, you suck.

You know, that type of thing.

I would be like, oh, man, come on.

It's okay.

Come on.

You and me.

We're pals.

Let's go.

Come on,

give me some.

So I'd reach out.

I'd grab their hat.

What was the best was when we were on the upper level and I could send it down to the lower levels.

My assistant runs and gets it or the people throw it back to them or whatever.

But I got a little...

of something in on them.

It had to feel good.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, you can't really go, I mean, you can't go ham on anybody

although i do enjoy the fact that you basically have a license in an nba building that no one else does

yeah you are doing things by virtue of your occupation that would get everybody thrown out immediately

yes

like grabbing a player's butt what's the art of grabbing a player's butt

have some character don't

Don't just do it.

It's the whole buildup.

It's the whole ending.

You got to have a whole, anything that a mascot does, if you're a good mascot, you're telling a story constantly.

Telling a story.

I pants a player one time while he was about to end down the ball.

Was he in on it?

No.

I love that you were perpetually, again,

as this athlete metaphor continues to crystallize for me.

You were perpetually heat checking.

Oh, you're like, I could get away.

I could, this is going to work.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Who did you pants?

I don't know.

You don't even remember.

This is incredible.

You don't remember.

Yeah.

It was.

That's so funny to me.

Yeah.

Got a fine for that one.

Got a lot of fines.

Who finds you?

The NBA.

The NBA finds you.

Yeah.

What's the damage like on these fines?

Anywhere between five and seven.

Do you have any idea how much money you lost to fines

in your career in the NBA?

Wow.

No.

It would equal probably around $50,000

somewhere in that neighborhood.

Again, sounds like it was worth it.

Oh, every minute.

By the end,

were you ready to stop doing it?

Were you ready to stop putting on the suit?

I always wanted a,

you know, deep inside, I wanted to ride off in the sunset, you know, but I never knew what that would could look like.

But as it turned out, you know, my last game was, it was filled with a whole lot of confetti.

At last, the long wait is over.

After 47 years, the Denver Nuggets can finally call themselves NBA champions.

There's such joy right now in the My Light City, the first title in franchise history.

So the climax of your career, of the Nuggets as a franchise,

seems cosmically faded in retrospect.

Then

it's been 47 long years.

But because of the guys

and the girls on this stage,

and because of you,

everyone out here, we're world champions.

I thought, you know what?

Isn't this typical of my career?

It just, it was magic.

I was in awe in a lot of ways, a lot of times, of what was going on.

And then, you know, all of a sudden, you know, to end it with that storybook ending,

I just thought it doesn't get any better than that.

Rocky was

my best friend.

Is that how you see it?

As a friendship?

Yeah.

I relied on him.

If it wasn't for Rocky,

I don't know where I'd be.

I went through some depression times where if I didn't

have to get in costume.

I don't know.

I honestly, I don't know where I'd be.

I'd go put that thing on and be able to escape.

I never escaped with alcohol or drugs or anything like that.

That was my, that was my drug.

Rocky was my drug.

And I would go out, get the endorphins going for myself, but then also to be surrounded by smiles.

Ah, I can make it through another day.

Yeah.

So it was.

trip.

It was a trip.

Explain the line of succession here.

explain how that has worked as you've been trying to negotiate and figure out well what happens to to me now to us now yeah

um i can't really go into too many details about

about the succession uh other than you know he's in good hands and i'm not i'm not too far removed i was never under the

assumption that I would ever, you know, own Rocky or that Rocky was mine or, or anything like that.

I was, I, it was a

opportunity for me to do what I love,

get paid well for it.

I got some good advice along the way from like Mark Randall.

Mark Randall played for us,

ended up being my assistant.

Former NBA player, former Nugget.

Yes.

Mark Randall.

Yes.

He played with Michael Jordan.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The Bulls, the Timberwolves, the Pistons, the Nuggets.

Great guy.

He

one day has to put me in my place and say, you know, you need to understand this is going to end at some point.

And

like any player, understand

that,

you know, you've been doing this a long time, more than any player.

But at the same time, it's temporary.

And that was good advice at the time.

It was great timing on it.

And I started preparing for the afterlife.

What is the afterlife of Ken Solomon like having gone through his first death, so to speak?

What's it like on the other side so far?

It's a little bit of rediscovering

and at the same time

a breath of fresh air

and realizing that that's not me

and I'm okay.

I had so much attitude and swagger

and things like that where, you know, these other characters are,

it's different,

but it's okay.

I don't think I'll ever, I mean, I'm pretty much sure that I'll never develop anything like that

in that way again, but it's okay.

Is there anything you want to say at the end here to Charles Barkley, wherever he may be?

You're going down, Punk.

It ain't over.

It ain't over.

Those guys have been so so fun.

And in the finals, he and I just did a little jersey exchange.

Sir Charles will now present Rocky with a signed Phoenix Suns jersey, and Rocky will present Sir Charles with a Game Worn jersey from the 1990s.

And I got to punch him one,

got one last jab in on him.

That was awesome.

I'm just glad you both remained conscious.

Yes.

Yes.

And no bloody lip.

Yes.

It has been really good to meet your best friend.

It's even better, Ken Solomon, to finally meet you.

So thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you.

My pleasure.

I'm honored.

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Metal Arc Media Production.

And we are produced by Walter Aberoma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Dawig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Lohman, Rob McRae, Rachel Miller-Howard, Ethan Schreier, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Chris Tumanello, and Juliet Warren.

Our studio engineering by RG Systems, our sound design by NGW Post, our theme song, as always, by John Bravo.

And we will talk to you next time.