23 and Me: Our Worldwide Hunt for the Missing, Million-Dollar Jordan Rookie Cards

Speaker 1 Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out.

Speaker 4 I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

Speaker 5 And there's like 50 freaking Michael Jordan rookie cards all stacked up. And I was like, what?

Speaker 7 Where the f did he get these?

Speaker 8 Right after this ad.

Speaker 3 You're listening to DraftKings Network.

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Speaker 15 Are you done fiddling with your gray hairs?

Speaker 6 Yes. I for calling them white.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Gray just makes me sad.
White, and I'm like, okay, maybe it's stress-induced. Well, I want to.
I'll try to convince myself that.

Speaker 16 I want to remind you why we're here today.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Which is another,

Speaker 1 I would say, almost disturbing marker of

Speaker 18 our senescence.

Speaker 2 The NBA drafted this week.

Speaker 1 Yep.

Speaker 17 40 years ago, Bradley, Michael Jordan got drafted.

Speaker 19 40 years ago.

Speaker 6 That's a completely different, like, we used to write letters back then. Yes.

Speaker 20 But even more important to me than paper

Speaker 23 is cardboard.

Speaker 4 Okay, so I don't know if you collected sports cards growing up, but I did.

Speaker 24 And I still viscerally remember the high.

Speaker 3 The high of opening up a pack of, let's say, 92, 93 Skybox or upper deck and feeling as I put my fingers to the foil pack like everything was possible.

Speaker 3 Because a pack of cards was not just a mystery box. It was also my way of feeling connected to the athletes that I loved.
I mean, think about what you do now to feel connected to an athlete.

Speaker 2 You play fantasy sports, you follow them on social media, you gamble on them legally, you maybe even buy an NFT or some shit. You do any of that stuff.

Speaker 3 Card collecting came before all of it, and it was kind of like all of it in one.

Speaker 3 Now, it is worth noting here that I cannot actually remember selling a single sports card for money.

Speaker 3 That, to me, was never the point. Even though I did read price guides, of course, like Beckett's Basketball Monthly, as if, you know, I would one day monetize my collection, but I never did.

Speaker 3 Never monetized my collection.

Speaker 6 Not why I got into it.

Speaker 2 And to be very clear, that's not why Bradley Campbell, returning Pablo Tori Finds Out correspondent, got into the hobby either.

Speaker 3 All of which is to say that Bradley happens to be the perfect person to finally solve a mystery, a truly global mystery that brought us together and back in time today.

Speaker 14 Cardboard for both of us

Speaker 30 was

Speaker 31 almost everything growing up.

Speaker 6 God, I remember I used to beg my mom to like, please drive me like the half hour, 45 minutes to Salem Center. Then I would like run out of the car, sprint upstairs.

Speaker 6 It was a two-level mall into a card shop. And then I would join other kids and we would just stare at like a Ken Griffey Jr.
rookie card. He has his little hat on.
He's got

Speaker 6 golden

Speaker 6 tail. That was that was like my Koinor diamond, my like star of India.
It felt like it had some sort of like mystic power. Right.

Speaker 32 Something that you could not touch, but you almost just needed to look at to feel its power.

Speaker 33 Yeah, completely.

Speaker 6 It just, it held a magic in a way.

Speaker 15 And for me, and this is a little, it's a little embarrassing to confess, given that this show has been devoted to, in some ways, torturing his family and debunking the myths around him.

Speaker 17 But it's, it's Michael Jordan.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 6 I'm that guy. I'm that kid.

Speaker 21 Like so many millions of seven-year-olds in 1992 falling in love with the dream team and then the bulls.

Speaker 34 So for me, when I think about my previous life as a card collector, which both of us were,

Speaker 6 I actually think of my own trauma, which is I was a kid.

Speaker 26 who collected Michael Jordan cards.

Speaker 28 That was my favorite thing.

Speaker 11 I just remember how I organized it.

Speaker 2 I had a binder, a three-ring binder, as so many of us did.

Speaker 21 And I took it to the park one day.

Speaker 18 And I remember passing around my binder exclusively, but specifically sorted with Michael Jordan cards.

Speaker 35 And

Speaker 17 I remember getting it back from the kids I showed it to.

Speaker 18 Okay.

Speaker 15 Then later, opening it back up and realizing that my Michael Jordan cards were stolen.

Speaker 2 And that was kind of, in some ways, like the end of my innocence.

Speaker 36 I never, I could never trust again.

Speaker 15 And I, I, I spent a lot of time obsessing over this card collection.

Speaker 28 Sure.

Speaker 35 And I remember to bring it back around to this week and the 40 years ago, uh, this week milestone of Michael Jordan getting drafted, of course, the holiest of grails was a Michael Jordan rookie card.

Speaker 6 Oh, they're the, they're the biggest thing.

Speaker 1 Which I did not have the luck to acquire.

Speaker 4 I wish I could have gotten it, if only to have it stolen from me so I could have touched it.

Speaker 6 These are the coolest coolest things yo so so the fact that you are i mean

Speaker 18 flex we have so many

Speaker 32 so many objects of varying strangeness that come through this this studio this though

Speaker 37 this fleer michael jordan rookie card oh yeah is uh i'm trembling it's hard to it's hard for me to look i mean this is the most valuable thing i feel like we need nitrate gloves

Speaker 29 what it looks like bradley we need to explain for people who maybe are just listening to this why this is so iconic i mean it's not just that it's michael jordan's rookie card he's flying through the air his tongue's out it is exactly what i think of when i imagine him is actually this photograph ball in his right hand leaping towards the rim gravity doesn't apply to him And the striping on the card, the red and blue and white and blue and red, feels both patriotic in a sense and also like its own country.

Speaker 20 Like it's a flag unto itself, the nation state.

Speaker 17 The empire of Michael Jordan began here.

Speaker 29 This card, which I want to put right here very, very gently.

Speaker 6 Justin. It hasn't been graded yet.

Speaker 39 Yep, exactly.

Speaker 1 I want to point out that these cards are more than just like totems, they're assets.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I mean...

Speaker 6 It's wild is that they're not really treated like we treat them as kids. No.

Speaker 6 Or it's just like the kids now, it's like they grew up, got finance jobs, and are now spending millions on these cards, and then they get them graded or rather authenticated.

Speaker 32 Yes, like financial instruments.

Speaker 15 Completely.

Speaker 35 These cards now are not for kids.

Speaker 6 And that card in particular.

Speaker 8 Who's in the back?

Speaker 40 Drake, he got to do something really cool. He kind of teamed up with Ken Golden of Golden Auctions.
They're like a big name in sports memorabilia.

Speaker 40 And he did an Instagram live where he opened a sealed 1986, 1987 FLIR basketball card set, and then he gets a Michael Jordan rookie card.

Speaker 18 So, the legend of this card in particular, it brings us to the story that we're here to do today.

Speaker 28 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because it's not about this specific card, it's about an even more valuable version.

Speaker 26 So, explain what the hunt for 23 is, Bradley.

Speaker 6 The hunt for 23.

Speaker 6 It was started by a company Upper Deck, and they bought back 23 of these Michael Jordan rookie cards from trusted sources.

Speaker 6 And then they had Michael sign each one, each of the 23. Then they hid little redemption cards in their packs, sent those out.

Speaker 19 Like golden tickets.

Speaker 6 Completely Willy Wonka.

Speaker 1 Randomly distributed throughout.

Speaker 6 Packs around the world. And then if you open it up and you got one of these redemption, you could send it in and you could get one of these cards autographed by Michael Jordan.

Speaker 6 Kicker here, though, is that Upper Deck made a deal with Jordan to never sign another rookie card again. So these 23 were supposedly the last 23 cards that Michael Jordan ever signed.

Speaker 23 And so these autographed Michael Jordan rookie cards went for how much at auction?

Speaker 6 It went for over $1 million. That was in 2022.
At the time, the most money anyone had ever paid for one of those 23 rookie cards

Speaker 15 right so the hunt for 23 um i want to describe the listing here on the christie's website bradley because um there is a clause in here yeah a clue that i think a lot of people just sort of

Speaker 21 didn't pick up on but you brought it to me yeah and i have been thinking about it ever since so what is the part of this listing that um

Speaker 28 that you ended up having to investigate?

Speaker 6 Well, of the 23 cards released, only 14 cards are known, graded, and in the hands of private collectors, which immediately makes you think.

Speaker 23 Doing some math here.

Speaker 2 23 minus 14 is nine.

Speaker 6 Where are they?

Speaker 23 Where are the missing nine autographed Michael Jordan rookie cards, the last of their kind?

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And so, fans, collectors, me now, like we've all been competing to find out the answer to where these cards are, what happened to them, the millions of dollars that they contain.

Speaker 6 After three continents, four countries, and

Speaker 6 a long talk with an armored car robber,

Speaker 6 I have something to tell you.

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Speaker 9 This smooth, flavorful cognac is crafted from the finest grapes and aged to perfection, giving you rich notes of oak and caramel with every sip.

Speaker 9 Whether you're celebrating a big win or simply enjoying some cocktails with family and friends, Remy Martin 1738 is the perfect spirit to elevate any occasion.

Speaker 10 So go ahead, treat yourself to a little luxury, and try Remy Martin 1738 Accord Royale.

Speaker 12 Learn more at remymartin.com.

Speaker 6 Remy Martin Conyak, Feene Champagne, Force and Alcoholic Volume 40 by Remy Control, USA Incorporated in Europe, New York, 1738, Centaur design. Please print responsibly.

Speaker 15 So Bradley, on some level, this assignment is very simple, right? Yeah.

Speaker 26 It was to find out what happened to the nine missing Hun for 23 autographed Michael Jordan Fleer rookie cards.

Speaker 28 So how did you begin this task?

Speaker 6 By running directly into a wall. Upper deck, the people that ran the promotion, I'm like, I'll just call them, see what happened to the nine missing Jordan cards.
Yes.

Speaker 6 Or just see what, like, what's going on? They wouldn't call me back. I called again, wouldn't call me back.
I called their general information line. They wouldn't call me back.
I emailed them.

Speaker 6 They wouldn't email me back. I emailed all their PR people.
Nothing, nothing, nothing.

Speaker 6 And I was like sitting there, I'm like,

Speaker 6 why aren't you getting back to me on something pretty simple? Right.

Speaker 20 Like, this feels, I don't know, it feels kind of

Speaker 6 outright suspicious to me.

Speaker 19 Exactly.

Speaker 2 I mean, they could just answer the question.

Speaker 29 This is what happened to the cards.

Speaker 2 Here's what we did with them. Yeah.

Speaker 9 They're worth seven figures, again, individually.

Speaker 1 But for, I guess, the people who are unfamiliar with Upper Deck, this institution, this apparently secretive card company,

Speaker 24 what's their whole deal then?

Speaker 6 Yeah, the Opus Day of Cards. God, their history is crazy.
They started as a hobby shop, like a little card shop that we used to go to in Anaheim, California, next to a Chinese food shop.

Speaker 6 And then they got a little bit of investment. And then a guy with incredible printing prowess, he actually did color separation for architectural digest.

Speaker 6 He went into the shop, saw the cards there, and they're like, these are terrible. I can make better ones.
And so they got into business to create their own cards.

Speaker 6 And in several years, they became like the power player in got a $1.2 billion business at the time. This is like 91.

Speaker 17 Right.

Speaker 29 And I remember Upper Upper Deck, I remember them as aesthetically

Speaker 13 prettier than the rest.

Speaker 18 The holograms that they use, all of it making it feel like this was trending towards a currency.

Speaker 6 Definitely. And they had the foil packs.
All of it feeling like

Speaker 13 they're certifying this.

Speaker 6 Yes. They were great.
And the biggest thing they did was they made an investment like Nike, like the Bulls.

Speaker 6 in Michael Jordan. If you wanted to get anything autographed by Michael Jordan, if you want to get any sort of authentic memorabilia, you had to go to Upper Deck.

Speaker 19 Right.

Speaker 26 They were exclusively the home of Michael Jordan.

Speaker 6 Both exclusive and also incredibly clever with their advertising.

Speaker 42 So with all he's achieved, can you believe somebody in Chicago would raise the sacrilegious idea of trading Jordan? Well, somebody did.

Speaker 42 It turns out the billboard was the brainstorm of the Upper Deck Company to help advertise its basketball trading cards.

Speaker 43 I think we got what we expected, that it would create a real buzz about who is this that has the gumption to say trade jordan out there in the marketplace

Speaker 6 and then the following year 1993 mj heads to the baseball all-star game in camden yards and he's like decked toe-to-toe in upper deck

Speaker 6 swag wait what does this swag look like oh you have like a baseball helmet with like a big upper deck bumper sticker on the side of it and he's flexing on tom sellek in the home run derby which jordan wins i was gonna say as michael jordan would in the 90s no big surprise that jordan outhit everyone else to wind up the game's top scorer.

Speaker 27 Of course, this was all in fun, and so was Jordan's ragging on another champion, Kirby Puckett.

Speaker 6 And I think the wildest part is like upper deck, you just see this thing growing, and they're just like, okay, we have Jordan, we have money, let's go get his rookie card.

Speaker 6 But instead of just like buying up all of the rookie cards, they just bought Fleer.

Speaker 34 Right.

Speaker 1 And so Fleer, again, is the manufacturer of the holy grail rookie card that you brought to this desk.

Speaker 9 It's the one that I'm trying not to run out of the room with right now.

Speaker 19 Like, this is Fleer. This is their work.

Speaker 18 And it's beautiful, but it's also, it feels analog compared to what Upper Deck was doing.

Speaker 25 Completely.

Speaker 29 It feels almost like an ancient artifact compared to Upper Deck.

Speaker 6 Yeah, definitely. And so, what they did is they went and again, they bought back 23 of those cards from trusted sources, and then they launched the hunt for 23.

Speaker 34 And so, your hunt for the missing nine cards,

Speaker 2 where does that take you in the present tense?

Speaker 6 Australia.

Speaker 6 I mean, you're imagining men at work, aren't you?

Speaker 12 I am.

Speaker 44 Hello, Matt Cassidy.

Speaker 6 Hello.

Speaker 45 Hey, how you doing?

Speaker 46 I'm good. I'm just got some serious reverb.

Speaker 6 So because Upper Deck wouldn't talk to me, I had to go find like experts in the hobby industry. And one of them happened to live in Brisbane, Australia.
His name was Matt Cassidy.

Speaker 6 He started a website all about Jordan cards and he called it jordancards.com.

Speaker 46 When I set it up,

Speaker 46 the domain name I just bought because it was about Jordan cards and I wasn't going to fluff around.

Speaker 38 I like it.

Speaker 44 It's bronze deal. You know, it does what it says on the can.

Speaker 46 That's right. Yeah.

Speaker 6 He was this huge Luke Longley fan.

Speaker 36 I mean, of course.

Speaker 6 So of course he loves

Speaker 6 it. Yeah.
Yeah. So of course he loves the Bulls.
And you have Jordan on top of that. And you have, again, the Michael Jordan rookie card.
Dude loved it.

Speaker 46 Yeah, it was a

Speaker 46 perfectly designed card for the time, I think. But then, of course, Upper Deck had taken to the next step with this of having him sign them, limiting it to 23,

Speaker 46 and then making him sign a contract where he's never allowed to sign this card ever again. So that's it.

Speaker 15 Yeah, so Upper Deck was also ahead of its time insofar as it was manufacturing the scarcity.

Speaker 24 They knew how to drive the value of an asset up.

Speaker 2 It's to have fewer of them available.

Speaker 6 Yeah, like the beers, man.

Speaker 6 Seriously. So I talked to Matt and wanted to get intel on the whole Christie's auction and the hunt for the remaining nine.
And I was going on and setting up the whole thing.

Speaker 6 And finally he interjected like, Mike,

Speaker 6 I've been on that hunt too.

Speaker 46 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they put 23 out.
And I've never been able to verify from Christie's how they found this out, but Christie's said there were only 14 redeemed.

Speaker 44 so i wrote to upper deck basically saying hey what happened to the rest surely you didn't destroy them but total radio silence i contacted upper deck about it and i didn't get anything back so i called their customer service line and then i asked them again and they were like we just don't give any information out It was strange.

Speaker 44 It was one of the stranger conversations I've had with

Speaker 44 a company before.

Speaker 46 I don't know if

Speaker 46 they're in a vault somewhere somewhere or

Speaker 46 I even just asked, but you know, what's your policy on unredeemed collectibles like this that are potentially worth a million dollars each?

Speaker 46 And they just said we don't comment on that. So

Speaker 46 I reckon that means they've probably still got them.

Speaker 2 So the global community of Michael Jordan stands has been turning its eyes towards upper deck, and they're not giving anybody anything.

Speaker 35 And so did you actually find someone, Bradley, who pulled one of these redemption cards, these golden tickets?

Speaker 6 I did.

Speaker 6 And that takes us to Belgium. Yeah, like a child detective, I suppose.

Speaker 6 Yeah, my hero Tintin. Just like him, I tracked him down, the gentleman I wanted to find, Ivan Weddington, who could be a good character in a Hersch novel.

Speaker 6 But I got him to tell me the story of how he acquired. a sealed box of Fleer from a collector that he met online in 2007.

Speaker 47 What What actually happened was that back then you had this

Speaker 47 German-based forum called

Speaker 47 dascardboard.eu.

Speaker 47 And one of the boxes was 2006-2007 FLIR EX,

Speaker 47 I think it was called at the time. But one of the cards that I pulled was redemption.
I don't even exactly remember what the exact wording was of the redemption, but

Speaker 47 it said something like redemption for Michael Jordan

Speaker 47 autograph card.

Speaker 6 And so he filled out a form on the Upper Deck website, punched in the you know, kind of secret redemption code, added his address, and then just like boom, hit redeem.

Speaker 3 I must have been so viscerally excited.

Speaker 4 Oh my god, yeah.

Speaker 47 Not that long after, I got an email from FedEx saying

Speaker 47 we have a parcel on the way for you from Upper Deck. So

Speaker 47 a few days later, the doorbell rang, and there was the FedEx guy with my Upper Deck parcel. I kind of had a hunch that I had to record it for people, so I had my wife film the opening of the parcel.

Speaker 48 And it's the one.

Speaker 48 It is

Speaker 48 the autographed Michael Jordan Flare rookie card,

Speaker 48 the one and only.

Speaker 48 It's got a hologram on the back

Speaker 48 to

Speaker 48 authenticate it.

Speaker 48 It's autographed in blue ink.

Speaker 18 That video, which you can see and should see on YouTube at Draftings Network, it makes me happy because he is so nervously and genuinely excited and shocked.

Speaker 2 And I mean, again, like holding this thing, which isn't even autographed, that gives me that feeling by proxy.

Speaker 41 I can only imagine what he is actually going through.

Speaker 6 Pablo,

Speaker 6 it's a fake.

Speaker 6 This, yeah, it's a counterfeit.

Speaker 6 I bought it for like 10 bucks from a collector. Wait, hold on.

Speaker 3 Wait, so why

Speaker 8 would why would you do this?

Speaker 16 And number two,

Speaker 9 real question.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 26 How do you acquire a counterfeit counterfeit Michael Jordan Fleer rookie card?

Speaker 34 This thing that now

Speaker 15 that I look at it, I guess I should not, I should not feel any of the feelings that I'm feeling.

Speaker 6 It's pixelated as hell. It's like a reprint of a print.

Speaker 28 Sorry.

Speaker 26 I'm now looking close to it.

Speaker 6 Wow, I thought this would make a good gag, and now I'm like, oh, God, I've really hurt it.

Speaker 18 It's just, it feels like PTSD.

Speaker 13 Sorry.

Speaker 18 I started this with a story about how it was cruel.

Speaker 6 I let him be good. I let it be a good moment in the show.

Speaker 20 And now it's happened again.

Speaker 11 Where did you get this?

Speaker 6 Not to sound like a cop, but where did you get this?

Speaker 6 I can't give out my source. But you can't be surprised, though, dude.
So like everyone's chasing the same card. It's like, of course, there's going to be counterfeits.
It's Michael Jordan.

Speaker 2 But okay, so if you can't tell me where you got it from, Mr.

Speaker 23 Campbell,

Speaker 2 do we know who what kind of people were making them? Like this black market, like who was behind it?

Speaker 6 a friend of an armored car robber who i talked to a while back of course

Speaker 5 have you ever heard the tale of the football player turned armored car robber it's a story so wild it almost seems fake

Speaker 3 all right so that description was not an exaggeration. I feel obligated to just jump in here and point that out.

Speaker 3 The story of Anthony Curcio, if you are not familiar, is the story of a football star from Idaho who then pulls off one of the most creative bank heists in American history.

Speaker 3 The guy used an elaborate system of pulleys and disguises to rob a Brinkstruck and then escape down a river using an inner tube.

Speaker 4 Now, Curcio eventually wound up an inmate in federal prison, but more crucial for our purposes here is the fact that he also wound up the subject of a separate podcast series reported by one Bradley Campbell.

Speaker 3 Bradley had spent hours upon hours interviewing Anthony Curcio in person.

Speaker 3 And you'll hear Curcio's voice in just a second here. Because luckily for our purposes, Bradley saved those tapes.

Speaker 6 This is where it felt like the world just got absolutely small. Because within that story about Anthony Curcio, there was one part that we actually actually had to cut.

Speaker 6 And this was this entire hustle that he did with sports cards.

Speaker 6 And it started at a friend's house in Ellensburg, Washington, which, if you get on the map, just go right to the center of Washington. That's where the hustle took place.

Speaker 5 I go over there and man, you know, we're young, and he's got this, everyone else has these crappy college apartments, and he's got this massive like rented house.

Speaker 5 And all these, he is like three or four four-wheelers, snowmobiles, all these toys and and stuff it's like damn dude like you're really going freaking hardcore i was just like how the f are you doing this this is amazing like how do you have all this

Speaker 5 and he brings me into this room and i think opened oh he opened one of those like under the table uh slide out like pencil drawer things

Speaker 5 And there's like 50 freaking Michael Jordan rookie cards all stacked up.

Speaker 6 And like, they're not in cases or anything.

Speaker 5 And I was like, what?

Speaker 14 Where the f ⁇ did he get these?

Speaker 5 They were reprints of the Michael Jordan rookie card even back then. You know, Michael Jordan is so popular that that was probably what created it.
And so nobody had them.

Speaker 7 Nobody knew that they were out there.

Speaker 5 So nobody was really made to be like fearful of them.

Speaker 6 So Anthony looked up his buddy's eBay history.

Speaker 5 Okay, I see that about one Jordan every two months is being sold. I don't get it.
It still doesn't add up.

Speaker 6 So the friend finally explained how the hustle worked.

Speaker 5 You think that I'm ending the auction to

Speaker 5 one person?

Speaker 5 I'm really contacting all of them saying that the first person didn't

Speaker 5 first person flaked out on me.

Speaker 5 Are you still interested in the card? I saw that you bid, blah, blah, blah. Then you go to the next one.

Speaker 6 So he's just not selling one, but he's selling several.

Speaker 6 Contacting the bidders offline who lost out.

Speaker 5 And he said, there's no better way to convince someone to buy something than just telling them it's not available. That was one thing I learned from this dude and absolutely nothing else.

Speaker 23 Why would anybody trust these people, right?

Speaker 6 Gray eBay rating.

Speaker 6 But more than that, it's because this guy owned his own card grading company. So he would fake authenticate his own fake Jordan and sell it's real.

Speaker 1 So now I'm just impressed.

Speaker 18 The idea that you were also the security department.

Speaker 6 Right.

Speaker 2 Verifying all of this stuff is legit.

Speaker 6 And the rumor that I had was that the printing plates that made this original Jordan rookie card,

Speaker 6 someone got their hands on them and was using these plates.

Speaker 18 Like the physical plates. Yes.

Speaker 6 And was using them. to counterfeit Jordan rookie cards.
So that might have been how Curcio's friend got such authentic looking cards.

Speaker 6 So I checked out this rumor. I tried to corroborate it with a private collector who has what's believed to be the largest private collection of cards in the world.

Speaker 6 And he was like, oh yeah, I've heard that too.

Speaker 31 So there's just a lot happening here.

Speaker 6 Sorry.

Speaker 18 There are two mysteries here that we're now dealing with.

Speaker 4 One is the mystery of the missing printing plates that you just dropped on us.

Speaker 12 Yes.

Speaker 2 And the other is the the hunt for the missing nine autographed Michael Jordan cards.

Speaker 6 And they're linked.

Speaker 18 And they're linked because, of course, if you have a thriving black market of counterfeits, what that does is it drives up the value of anything that's actually legitimate.

Speaker 6 That you know that it's authentic.

Speaker 16 That is graded and known.

Speaker 18 And as the Christie's auction listing indicated.

Speaker 6 Numbered.

Speaker 21 Numbered.

Speaker 18 Yes.

Speaker 6 Yes.

Speaker 2 And that's why you're getting over a million dollars each for the things that we set out to identify.

Speaker 6 Part of the reason were seismic events that happened.

Speaker 6 One that changed the course of history, and then another that spiked the value of all things Jordan.

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Speaker 51 So, the first two installments of The Last Dance, this is that 10-part series that aired on ESPN last night. It looks at Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls rise to the top of the NBA.

Speaker 1 So, if you're listening, you may remember this.

Speaker 6 I mean, how can you not?

Speaker 20 The one-two punch of COVID and The Last Dance.

Speaker 18 It sends the card industry into that asset class financial stratosphere.

Speaker 31 Yeah.

Speaker 49 Because everyone's locked inside and we're all developing weird hobbies, but something a lot of us were doing that we hadn't done since we were kids was, yeah, watch Michael Jordan dominate on television.

Speaker 6 And then once we were done, it's like, wait, do I have any Jordan rookie cards?

Speaker 6 And so people were climbing, like going back into like their gear storage and then going up in their attics and their basements searching for this card.

Speaker 6 Oh, God, I bet it did.

Speaker 2 I bet it did.

Speaker 32 This moment in time.

Speaker 6 It's not going to hurt you as bad as it hurt my friend, Michael Fox.

Speaker 45 And so one morning, my wife was going through a box and she's like, oh, look at this love letter. She found all these different love letters from, you know, before me.

Speaker 45 And so I got a little jealous and I was like, in my head, I was like, well, I have love letters. I'm going to go find them and I'll show you.

Speaker 6 So off he went, searching for an emotional salve.

Speaker 45 I went up into the attic and as luck would find it, I didn't find many love letters.

Speaker 45 apparently apparently I thought they had existed but didn't but what I did find was boxes and boxes of sports cards so they'd been sitting there for years I'd been transporting them to different houses that I lived in and had been assuring my wife that they were going to someday pay for the kids college education and that that's why it was worth carrying them these just massive totes of cards.

Speaker 6 He was shuffling through the cards and it was it was legit like time traveling.

Speaker 45 I was a Jordan fanatic, man. I was born in 82.
I grew up in Portland, so I was like a Rip City kid, bust a bucket, Kevin Duckworth, drum chrissy, Clyde the Glide.

Speaker 45 And then as the 90s happened, it was the Bulls. And, you know, one year, the Trailblazers made it to the finals.
And that was like the classic. Jordan is on fire and he does this to the camera.

Speaker 45 All the same, I grew up, you know, loving Michael Jordan,

Speaker 45 collecting cards, but not really knowing what I was collecting. And I opened up this box and I found two 1986 Flear Michael Jordan rookie cards.

Speaker 6 And like in his head, he's like, man, I can send my kids to private school now. Right.

Speaker 45 It all came rushing back. I was like, holy cow.
I remember. I remember this card.
I remember getting it, opening it in the pack, like looking at it with friends.

Speaker 45 And then I turned it over and I remembered it was was also signed by MJ.

Speaker 6 Hold on.

Speaker 21 I feel like you're burying the lead here.

Speaker 34 Your friend has two Michael Jordan autographs.

Speaker 6 MJ autographs.

Speaker 45 It was signed first by Jeremy Banning, one of my close childhood friends. He had got, he had pulled it in the pack.

Speaker 45 And, you know, I was like, well, I knew that was a good card. I didn't know how good of a card.

Speaker 45 But he quickly wrote J on the card

Speaker 45 because he wanted to make sure everyone knew it was his.

Speaker 45 And at some point, I don't know if I packaged, you know, a bunch of Trailblazer cards or what I did to finally get that 86 Jordan, but I traded for it.

Speaker 45 And of course,

Speaker 45 what does a five or six year old do when he gets that card? He crosses out the J and he writes M next to it. It was Michael's card.

Speaker 45 So back during the pandemic, I found two 1986 FLIR Michael Michael Jordan rookie cards that are marked MJ, one by Jeremy Banning and one by Michael Fox.

Speaker 2 So again, for people who are just listening to this,

Speaker 20 these are actual, actual, not counterfeit, actual Michael Jordan Fleer rookie cards.

Speaker 29 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Except they've been autographed on the back.

Speaker 36 Yeah, on the back.

Speaker 20 Two children.

Speaker 6 Like two six-year-olds or seven-year-olds.

Speaker 19 Not the actual MJ.

Speaker 6 Oh, man. Terrible handwriting.
Like they were gripping the pencils like a fist, just going M and J. And he even tried to like erase the J once it was his, then stopped halfway.

Speaker 36 Like, I know that.

Speaker 6 I know. Erasing the card.
What am I doing? What am I doing? Yeah. But yeah.
So, anyway, I think the obvious takeaway from this is just don't teach kids how to write.

Speaker 26 Correct. Yeah.
Correct.

Speaker 25 One thing modern society is moving towards is deserving.

Speaker 6 We're going to avoid this in the future.

Speaker 1 But what we're getting is this sense.

Speaker 31 of why these cards, these artifacts, are in fact so valuable.

Speaker 18 Again, because they were held protected by children.

Speaker 36 Yes.

Speaker 20 And so they ruined them completely.

Speaker 19 sometimes.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 20 they did not get

Speaker 9 secured as what they would be in the future, which are multi-million dollar assets, right?

Speaker 6 Right. So, you have those two things: you have the counterfeits over here, you have kids being kids over there, and then you have these authentic 23, right?

Speaker 34 And so, the hunt for the missing nine, right?

Speaker 31 The missing nine of those 23, which you promised me you would get to.

Speaker 29 Yes, so it takes you across three continents and four countries.

Speaker 11 Yes, uh, the armored car robber, your friend's addict.

Speaker 18 But how close did you actually get to finding the nine missing autographed Jordan rookie cards?

Speaker 2 Did you find a way even to like get closer to upper deck?

Speaker 6 No.

Speaker 6 No.

Speaker 6 I mean, I was legit defeated. I'll be honest here.
Completely. Just sitting by myself, like, I have nothing to turn in.

Speaker 6 You know, it's kind of like it felt like in baseball where you track a flyball from home plate and you're sprinting after it.

Speaker 6 You run, you hit the warning track, and then you just run into a wall, and like nothing is there. And

Speaker 6 at that point, I was just like, Is there a savior out there who kind of gets me

Speaker 6 that could help me out?

Speaker 6 And then God, one appeared.

Speaker 52 All right, hang on. Oh, I got ice hit.

Speaker 52 All right, there we go.

Speaker 44 We got matching hats.

Speaker 44 All right, so we got good taste.

Speaker 38 Yeah, well, I'm from Brooklyn.

Speaker 52 I'm from Brooklyn originally, so

Speaker 44 man, I live near Ebbets Field or the former Ebbets Field.

Speaker 52 Yeah, it's what's his apartments now.

Speaker 6 Oh my God, you paw up. I just, I did not plan this.

Speaker 30 What happens is you show up to a Zoom call with this stranger.

Speaker 1 You're wearing your Brooklyn Dodgers cap, which I've seen you wear around the office a lot.

Speaker 13 And the guy whose face materializes happens to be wearing the exact same thing.

Speaker 6 It was incredible. It was an incredible one.

Speaker 36 Who is this man?

Speaker 6 He's this great, great guy named john newman he hosts a podcast called sports card nation i mean we ended up talking for an hour and a half about cards about life like it just got deep and then i got comfortable just to confess to him like i

Speaker 6 i i had failed as a reporter and i had like no contact i could not get anyone from upper deck

Speaker 52 The problem you would have there, I'm not saying it's impossible,

Speaker 52 is a lot of people that were there at that time are somewhere else or not in the space you're not in the hobby space anymore you know my guy chris carlin was the face of upper deck for 24 years he was just there he was like a rookie oh man i would reach out to chris he's a good friend of mine you can name drop me that will help oh okay

Speaker 6 not to be cocky And then that's the moment where I came into the studio where we are a while back.

Speaker 6 I'm like, all right, Pablo, I'm going to a card show in Toronto to see a guy who hopefully might solve the mystery of the missing Jordan cards.

Speaker 20 And you were like,

Speaker 49 yeah, I was like,

Speaker 41 I like an expense report heat check. I do.

Speaker 9 Dan doesn't. But Lebantard,

Speaker 20 when he realizes, when he finds out that we're sending you to yet another country.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 36 I had doubts as to whether this would even be worth it.

Speaker 2 I mean, honestly, like the idea of like you bounding in, I'm going to Toronto.

Speaker 1 And I was like, we should prepare for you to find out nothing at this random card show you're going to show up to.

Speaker 6 Yeah, but it felt like we had to take a chance. I mean,

Speaker 6 to sound a little cheeseball,

Speaker 6 it felt like, you know, if you want to find a card, you got to open the pack.

Speaker 50 All right, I made it here to Toronto.

Speaker 6 It's raining today, but we're here at the Sports Card Expo.

Speaker 50 It's out in an industrial plaza.

Speaker 6 Let's go inside.

Speaker 19 So you're in Canada, obviously hockey country.

Speaker 26 How much Michael Jordan is there?

Speaker 6 It was crazy. He's everywhere.
It's like among Hanson Jerseys and Connor Bedard and Connor McDavid and Wayne Gretzky and Gordy Howe

Speaker 6 and then Jordan.

Speaker 22 Right. The Jordan LeBron thing.

Speaker 6 No, it doesn't exist in the hobby industry in car collecting. It's just Jordan's there by a mile.

Speaker 6 Craziest part about the Expo was you saw that stratospheric rise in cards because everyone was carrying around these little briefcases that had combination locks, which they would store their graded cards in.

Speaker 6 Almost like they had the nuclear codes, like the nuclear football they were toting around.

Speaker 1 Those guys, unlike me and your friend with the attic, it seems like they actually knew the value of the stuff in their collections.

Speaker 32 Like they were not settling for the three-ring binder.

Speaker 6 No, no, definitely not. Definitely not.

Speaker 6 So, anyways, I went through wandering these giant airplane hangers full of cards and people and collectors searching for Chris Carlin.

Speaker 6 Not the New York radio personality.

Speaker 25 Right.

Speaker 6 Not Chris Carlin. Another Chris Carlin, the guy at upper deck and the person that hopefully had the intel on the missing nine Jordan cards.

Speaker 6 All right, so the contact that I have said that

Speaker 6 for me to come to PSA, he should be in the booth.

Speaker 6 All right, here we go. I'm going to stop recording.

Speaker 6 So I finally track down the booth that he's at, and I shake his hand. He's like,

Speaker 6 actually, could you come back in an hour? And I was like, and he walks away and I'm like,

Speaker 6 am I getting done? It's happening again.

Speaker 13 It's happening again.

Speaker 6 It's happening again.

Speaker 36 Like, I just get filled with this absolute feeling of pure defeat.

Speaker 6 But then, thankfully, hour passes. He comes back.

Speaker 50 My name is Chris Carlin. I worked with Upper Deck for over 24 years.

Speaker 6 It was cool to listen to him. You like told me what went into a good hunt.

Speaker 50 In trading cards, there's a lot of Willy Wonka type of promos, golden ticket types of things.

Speaker 50 But really, what anyone who works at a trading card manufacturer worth assault is trying to give collectors something to talk about, trying to give customers something that they appreciate and are want, which in the case of Michael Jordan is anything Michael Jordan.

Speaker 6 so in regards to the Hunt for 23 promotion,

Speaker 6 the thing was huge.

Speaker 50 MJ signing those rookies was a pretty big deal.

Speaker 6 Yeah, and the coolest thing is when he was talking about the Hunt for 23 promotion, he said it was specifically designed for kids.

Speaker 50 You know, we're trying to get that next generation of collector in, and Jordan was such a perfect way to drive interest in opening up packs of cards, whether it be getting something signed by MJ or winning a trip to his flight school.

Speaker 50 It was pretty exciting for people back then.

Speaker 6 And then

Speaker 6 I got to ask Chris the question. Yes.

Speaker 13 There is a question.

Speaker 49 Then I came to Toronto. Yeah,

Speaker 18 your expense report was riding on this literal multi-million dollar question that both of us have been obsessed with, which is what happened, Bradley, to the nine missing Jordan cards.

Speaker 6 The weirdest part, Pablo, is he really didn't seem to know what the hell I was talking about.

Speaker 6 Where are they?

Speaker 50 Yeah, all I could say is that Upper Deck made sure that they were all distributed.

Speaker 6 So what that means is

Speaker 6 all of those redemption cards, those golden tickets,

Speaker 6 not all of them were sent into Upper Deck. So that means not all of the signed 23 Jordan cards were immediately sent out.
to people that found them in packs.

Speaker 19 So basically, Upper Deck had whatever the leftovers were, the unclaimed, unredeemed,

Speaker 26 Jordan-autographed rookie cards.

Speaker 6 And their company policy stated that all prizes had to be distributed. They couldn't just be collected or kept by Upper Deck employees.

Speaker 6 Which would have been a real coup if you're an Upper Deck employee.

Speaker 49 I'll take this home with me.

Speaker 22 Yeah, sure, sure.

Speaker 11 So what was their policy?

Speaker 6 Well, they had to devise a workaround to make sure that they got out to fans of Upper Deck.

Speaker 6 Wait, so what was the workaround?

Speaker 31 Who got these cards?

Speaker 6 You remember how I said that the promotion was all for kids? Yes. Well, they decided to award these cards to kids who did things that kids today no longer do.

Speaker 6 Write letters.

Speaker 50 I would often see bins of mail coming in from people who were trying to participate in some type of sweepstakes for the price of a postage stamp instead of the price of a pack of cards.

Speaker 6 So after the Hunt for 23 ended, Chris just simply called and then sent these fans any leftover autographed Jordan rookie cards, like the last of of their kind.

Speaker 18 So, these seven-figure fortunes were just mailed out to kids

Speaker 1 by envelope because they wrote a letter.

Speaker 6 Yes.

Speaker 34 And so, okay, the missing nine, the hunt we've been on, right?

Speaker 14 Do we know who got those cards?

Speaker 6 So, the answer to the mystery of the missing nine Jordan cards is that they were never missing.

Speaker 6 Like, they're out there in the world.

Speaker 6 If you remember, Christie's was saying, there's only 14 cards that are known and graded. Right.

Speaker 6 These nine cards aren't treated like everyone expects them to be treated. Right.
In some ways, they're treated like they were when we were kids.

Speaker 50 A lot of times they end up in personal collections. And these private collectors, you know, they say that they're private for a reason.
You know, they don't like other people knowing what they have.

Speaker 11 So we always get excited.

Speaker 29 As prizes to keep in a personal collection,

Speaker 6 like

Speaker 6 maybe even a binder.

Speaker 37 That they, this time,

Speaker 3 smartly of them, are not telling anybody about.

Speaker 6 Exactly.

Speaker 6 So Bradley, even more than I want to congratulate you on getting to the bottom of this mystery, I want to salute you for truly lowering the value of the 14 known autographed Michael Jordan rookie cards that Christie's has, in fact, cited.

Speaker 6 Sorry. And oh, I should add on that too, they're not the last autographed Jordan rookie cards that Jordan signed.

Speaker 18 Despite the exclusive contract with Upper Deck.

Speaker 6 Yeah, he broke it when he lost a bet with Kurt Bush, the NASCAR character.

Speaker 12 And I always remember the gambling of Michael Jordan.

Speaker 6 I mean,

Speaker 18 what we're doing, though, across the board here is we are moving

Speaker 6 moving markets oh yeah so the one unanswered question on that note that i have has to do with the other mystery that you cited which is that there were these original printing plates that your armored car robber friend and his friend had uh acquired so what happened to those so if you remember upper deck bought fleer when fleer went bankrupt And I asked Chris Carlin, where did they go?

Speaker 50 You know, a lot of times they were just pitched. So if if someone was dumpster diving, they might have got lucky.
But I don't know.

Speaker 50 That particular set,

Speaker 50 they weren't widely collected or looked at the same way they are today, as an asset rather than a tool to make the trading card.

Speaker 6 So the rumor holds.

Speaker 30 Okay, so the bad news.

Speaker 20 For everybody who has the Michael Jordan cards that I have lusted after for my whole life, basically, the bad news for them is that actually

Speaker 1 there may be no shortage of Michael Jordan rookie cards in reality because the technology exists to make them apparently forever, maybe.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Someone's college tuition

Speaker 12 is now gone thanks to your report.

Speaker 6 But, Pablo, to make it up for you.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 6 I had time after I solved the mystery to walk around the card show

Speaker 6 and was able to buy a pack for you to hopefully reach out to you.

Speaker 6 As a planet, both an apology for what I put you through and hopefully find one of those Jordans. Oh, Rob.
Oh, you got me. I got to admit, though, I also bought a present for myself.
I have the

Speaker 6 upper deck 1989. That's the sound of foil.

Speaker 37 I can hear it.

Speaker 1 I mean, you got me Skybox 92.93, which is like prime again, dream team era.

Speaker 2 Like, this is

Speaker 6 89. So, anyway, you ready?

Speaker 15 I think there's only one way to end this episode, and that is Let's Rip.

Speaker 3 this has been Pablo Torre finds out a Metalark media production,

Speaker 9 and I'll talk to you next time.