Why JJ Redick Rejected the NBA to Coach 9-Year-Olds Instead

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out.

I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

And all I said to the referee was, are you seriously not going to call that a travel?

And he teed me up.

And I said, did you seriously just give me a technical?

And he threw me out of the game.

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JJ, I want to be clear about something I've learned in our friendship,

which is that

you're a sicko.

Yeah.

Like, unfortunately.

You present very

polished.

You're well coiffed.

You are a professional.

And you're f ⁇ ing nuts.

I think a little crazy is fine.

A little crazy is fine.

You know, it's funny.

What has served me well in life?

And

sometimes it hasn't worked out.

But what has served me well in life is this like balance

of being even keeled,

but also being a psycho.

Sometimes that balance gets out of whack, and I've dealt with some consequences because of that.

Okay, so J.J.

Reddick, if you did not know, was one of the greatest and most hated college basketball players of all time.

He was the National Player of the Year at Duke.

He was an All-American.

He was all of that.

And then he got drafted 11th overall in 2006.

And he played for 15 seasons in the NBA.

And now he works for ESPN.

where he debates Stephen A.

Smith and he calls games and he podcasts for his own company and he still pays attention to every

single detail

the obsession right the obsession the perfectionism we were talking in the on the way in here about the perfectionism it served me well my wife and i talk about this all the time i'm like i can't change at this point because i've got a few decades now of like it's worked You walked into this office, by the way.

I want to make this clear.

I'm carrying like a half dozen suits.

Four.

Yeah, okay.

Sorry.

Sorry for being imperfect about the number of suits you were holding to get tailored because I guess, I don't know what

the pants were a little off.

Yeah.

The pants are a little off.

Sure.

Maybe it's not obvious to you as a rookie doing television.

No one can see

the pants.

I know.

Below this table.

I know.

Yeah.

I know.

But I took one.

But I took one of the new suits to a game recently.

I was in San Antonio and I had gotten the pants altered.

And my tailor is impeccable.

So I just assume what a

to be your tailor.

I used to say this a bit tongue-in-cheekly.

Now it's just real.

You're a media mogul.

JJ is kind of like wryly smiling at that, but it's true.

You're sort of patient zero for these guys, athletes who got into podcasting.

And now you have a giant channel and the name of your media company, 342.

Can you just explain in relation to our discussion of your psychosis, why it is named that?

Yeah.

Starting around my third year in the NBA in the offseason, every Sunday.

Rather than taking the full weekend off, because I trained

like a sicko, Monday through Friday, two or three workouts a day, game speed on every rep.

Like it was taxing.

And so I would take Saturdays off and early in my career, I would take Sundays off too, and then get back at it on Monday.

And I decided I wasn't as efficient on Mondays in my shooting workouts because I had taken two days off.

So I said, well, I know I need the break because Monday through Friday is so hard.

So why don't I do a light workout on Sunday?

And that light workout, what it had turned into for the rest of my career every Sunday, was I had to make 342 shots.

342

is

sociopathically precise.

How is that the number specifically?

It's actually simple.

So typically in a shooting workout, there's seven spots, the two corners, the two wings, the two slots, and the top of the key.

So if you make 20 spot twos

from all seven spots and then shoot five free throws and then make 20 spot threes from all seven spots and then make five free throws and then make three one dribble right

from all seven spots and then five free throws and then three one dribble left from all seven spots and then five free throws.

That adds up to 342.

Has anybody called you Patrick Bateman before?

Am I the first person to break the ice?

I hear Enigma a lot.

Enigma.

That's what I hear a lot.

So I want to figure out how your brain in this context processed what happened to you.

I guess it was May of last year now, May 2023, when the Toronto Raptors,

do they call you and say, hey, would you like to interview for the job of head coach of the Toronto Raptors?

Or how does that land at your doorstep?

The people that I

talk to within the NBA circles,

my friends,

some that were my former agents, people that I worked with that now are in front offices or coaching staffs, like we've talked since I retired about the idea of me coaching.

And I think

there's a strong desire for sure.

So people will come up to me and they'll be like, oh, you look like you're having so much fun in media.

And I'm like, yeah, no, no, it's fun.

And there are great days.

There are bad days too.

There's some really bad days.

I leave my place of work, whatever it may be, and I'm discouraged.

And that's not a knock on anyone.

That's just,

I loved every day in the NBA.

There were good days and bad days, but I loved every day.

I was so grateful for every day.

This is a new thing.

And so I think you have to approach it with some level of flexibility.

So it was like a Saturday.

And I got two phone calls from people that were just like, hey, Toronto wants to interview.

Masai wants to fly you up to Toronto.

Yeah, Masai Usieri president of the the rest.

Yeah.

And I said, okay, it sounds like a cool opportunity.

I left that night, flew to Toronto,

did a full day of interview, started at 9 a.m.

I left dinner at 10.15.

I had first take the next morning.

I've now missed any sense of a commercial flight.

So I actually took a puddle jumper from the Toronto airport.

Unfortunately, LaGuardia, the customs had closed by that time.

So I had to land in Buffalo.

Oh, man.

Go through customs and then flew to JFK, got home at 2 a.m., woke up for my production meeting at, you know, at 7.30.

There's a surreal, I imagine, just mental whiplash from going to

being at least briefly inside of the inner sanctum where decisions are made that will then be debated by the outer rung.

And I qualify as one of these people, the outer rung of gas bags who traffic in absolutes without access to the inner sanctum that you then had to contemplate,

where do I want to be?

There are

a lot of

intelligent

and entertaining people

in sports media.

No doubt.

I would consider you to be one of them.

I hype up your podcast and this show all the time.

When you were at ESPN, I did it all the time.

You did.

I love what you do.

Stephen Asian Smith is what I call myself.

That's right.

When you are in a locker room, a coach's meeting, you're talking to front office people,

the basketball intellect is different.

So this is not a knock on the intelligence of anyone in sports media.

The basketball intellect is different.

The people that have lived it, like Bob Myers is a great example of that, right?

I think he's brought a different element.

to ESPN.

Yeah, former Jim of the Warriors, won all those titles.

Was my agent for

until, I think, 2012, whenever he took over the Warriors.

But when I have a conversation with Bob in private, that conversation is deep in terms of the basketball intellect, right?

And so a part of me for sure is like,

oh,

I got to live that for 15 years and I miss it.

Yeah, that's your tribe.

A tribe of,

and I say this, again, lovingly, of nerds who want to nerd out about the craft that is so specific in ways that, and this is the presumption, would bore normal people if you were to actually

inspect it and scrutinize it in the detail that you want to.

I have many jobs.

We were talking about this before we went live.

I don't know how you do all of them.

I have many.

You're at that point.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I have many jobs.

I really like all my jobs.

There are parts of all my jobs that I love.

The thing that I have found that I maybe love the most is the 15 minutes before a game that I call when we get to meet with each coach.

We get about 15 minutes with each coach.

I had one meeting this year with Joe Missoula.

They just played the Philadelphia 76ers and Drew Holliday had guarded Joel and Biede for 24 possessions in the half court, right?

Right.

A conspicuous pairing of small guy and enormous man.

So I'm asking him about

any confusion that they have in their schemes when they're not matched up by position.

And he starts going in on, well, we had a couple plays where we had some confusion over switches because we had called 14, which is your switching one through four.

Drew is not a five, but he's guarding a five.

So he thought he was switching, but we weren't switching 15.

And I'm looking at him.

It's like, yeah, RJ gets it.

Now you're doing some Dungeons and Dragons.

It's like, when I roll my 19 side animals, and it seems very simple to me.

I'm just like, yeah, no, that makes sense, Joe.

But you bring up Missoula, and I want to point out that in your adventures, you're maybe just a hypothetical wandering through this alternate life of coaching.

Joe Missoula wanted you to be on his coaching staff, correct?

Like he brought you in for

what?

A meeting, an interview?

I happened to be in Boston that weekend for a friend's backyard party.

My wife was out of town.

She She was at the ranch in Malibu, which is this wellness retreat or something.

And I happened to be in Boston.

I get a call from Brad Stevens.

Hey, I heard you're playing golf with Austin Ainge on Sunday.

Yep.

You mind if Joe joins?

Yeah, this is another Celtics front office just having a force.

He got the job the day before.

Training camp starts Tuesday.

I joked with Joe.

Like, I'll never forget it.

I can't remember what hole I'm.

We're on the 11th hole.

Joe and I have now been talking for, you know, two and a half hours.

I'm asking him questions, you know, what type of role I would have, what would I be responsible for, where can I help the most.

I'm getting a feel for him.

And

Austin asked me, do you have any more golf trips planned this fall?

And I said, yes, I'm going to Pine Valley, which is regarded as one of the top two or three courses in the world.

I'm going to Pine Valley on October 18th.

And the look on Joe's face, and I knew as soon as I said it, I I was like, oh, and then I was like, Joe, when does, when does training camp start?

When do you need me there?

This was a Sunday.

And he's like, yeah, training camp starts Tuesday.

We need you there Tuesday morning at 9 a.m.

And I was like, how do I make this decision?

My kids are in school.

I planned out my life.

You know, it's like...

This is a scene.

It's the scene in the movie where you're in like...

you're in the jungle and they're trying to pull you back in for one more job.

Are there other teams that have brought you along to any depth in the way that the Raptors and the Celtics have?

Yeah, I've had discussions and offers in terms of being an assistant coach on a staff from a number of teams.

How many?

Six to eight.

I'd have to go through and really think about it.

That tells me that people are like, JJ's going to crack.

The book is out on you.

He's like, look, you get him on the golf course and he's going to say a bunch of stuff.

But inside, they see it in your eyes.

They see

that

sicko

flicker.

That twinkle.

When they talk about highly complicated switching strategies,

which is all to say that clearly, very tempting.

Clearly, you did not get or take those jobs.

And so what are you doing now in the world of coaching?

I'm coaching a fourth-grade travel team in Brooklyn.

I mean,

I'm a professional.

It could be helping Tatum try to win a championship.

Instead,

instead,

I'm trying to figure out how nine-year-olds can beat a 2-3 zone.

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As soon as I heard what you were doing, I said two things.

Number one, I want to do an episode about this.

And number two, I need to go watch a game.

Yeah.

And we're doing both.

I've done the second thing.

And it's, it's amazing.

It's amazing to watch you in this setting.

Not just because it feels like a sitcom to me, but because

you, of course, approach this with the obsession, specificity, passion, discipline, every one of those words.

I remember

my son, Knox, who is on this team.

Who is how old?

He's nine.

He's in third grade, so he's playing up.

But last year, he got into basketball in the fall.

We signed him up for a rec league.

They were playing on nine-foot hoops.

He was scoring like 35 a game.

And we were like, this is probably not good for him, right?

Over

inflated

sense of confidence.

So we figured out, we had gotten sort of this word-of-mouth buzz about this Brooklyn basketball academy, and they were doing travel teams.

And so I reached out to Geo, who's a young guy from Georgia, came over to the United States to play.

Country, Georgia.

Came over to the United States to play college basketball.

There's an immediate sort of connection that we have.

He's obsessed.

Kyle is

his main guy,

also obsessed.

Doesn't feel like a thing you get into for the money.

No, no, no, no.

These guys are obsessed with basketball.

They love development.

They love coaching these kids.

So I brought Knox to a practice.

They had already started.

They'd already had tryouts.

Knox performed well enough to make the team.

They did another month of practice.

We started the city league.

I went to one game.

And within five minutes of the game, I said to Chelsea, nope, can't do this.

Can't sit.

Can't watch this.

I've got a coach.

So I went to Geo the next practice.

I said, do you mind if I help out?

He said, sure.

So the following weekend, we had a game.

And after the game ended, Geo called me and said, you should just be the head coach.

It would be better for everyone.

Would you say that you're good with kids?

Would you have said that before you started coaching?

I would say as a parent and as a father, I'm great with kids.

I think the challenge for me, and I haven't been perfect with these kids, and I'll admit this, the challenge for me is finding that balance because

during a practice, during a game, the competitiveness comes out.

And, you know,

I'm not like screaming at these kids, but I've raised my voice.

I've kicked kids out of practice, constantly reminding myself these guys are nine and 10 years old.

What does it take for a nine-year-old to get thrown out of practice by J.J.

Reddick?

Repeated offenses.

Oh, the recidivists.

Yeah.

Yes.

And generally speaking, it's, and look, it's tough at that age.

I get it.

We have three rules on our team.

Don't disrespect the coaches.

Don't disrespect your teammates.

Don't disrespect the refs.

And in practice, you know, the coaches are the refs.

So just play.

I'll give you an example.

Yeah.

If I

see a pattern of behavior that is disruptive, I find that disrespectful.

If I then talk to you multiple times about that after a practice game, whatever, I'm big on body language.

I'm big on how you interact with your teammates.

I'm big on, you know, just like a sense of urgency, you know, in practice.

Like, all right, guys, put the balls down.

It's time to go to the next thing, right?

I have conversations.

I've had conversations with parents.

If then it happens repeatedly again, then go take 15 minutes off.

Go take 15 minutes.

Yeah, generally speaking, I say go take 15 minutes off.

There was one time I just said, you can go sit down for the rest of practice.

And I had a conversation with the parent.

It was all good.

So, so much of how we sort of

act and behave is shaped by our childhood.

The

accountability portion, the mental toughness portion, those things were built when I was 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 years old playing.

When I get to high school and I've got a coach that held me accountable and truthfully would kick me out of practice and would challenge me to win every conditioning drill and would challenge me to be the best player in practice every day.

And then I get to Duke.

I played for Coach K.

I get to the NBA.

At this point, I'm like, I didn't play for Stan McGuddy for five years.

Like I am who I am because of my coaches.

I feel very grateful for that.

I love how much you are concerned about whether you're doing this right.

Well, I want to be good at anything I do, but I also want to be sensitive to the people I'm doing it with.

I want to go back to something that I've talked about with the kids and with the parents, this concept, right?

So last year, we were talking about growth as a player and why we play the way we do and my hope for what growth looks like, where

they understand

basketball concepts.

And so,

you know, my hope is when these kids are 12 or 13 years old, you don't have to call a play.

They can get into a dribble handoff, swing the ball, get right into a step up, pick and roll, replace that baseline drive, baseline drift, right?

That's what we work on so that we can get to that.

So we're having this conversation last year and I'm saying, if you guys continue to do this and you understand basketball, you're going to be so far ahead of the curve.

Forget all the development stuff we work on, the ball handling and the shooting and the passing, right?

The concepts of basketball, you're going to be ahead of the curve.

And I said to them, I hope you all want to play high school basketball.

I hope you all have aspirations to play in college.

And every single one of the kids raised their hand and they said, we're going to play in the NBA.

I'm going to play in the NBA, right?

It's a crazy dream.

I had that crazy dream.

I hope I get some kids.

I get to coach kids that play in the NBA.

So that's one part of it.

The other part of it is they're playing on a travel team.

This is not a rec league that everybody signed up for.

This is a travel team, which you earned the right to be on this team.

You tried out for this team.

You earned the right, right?

I think there should be a general expectation that you're going to try to get better and you're going to be competitive.

Yeah, this is not you teaching phys ed.

Yes, exactly.

How do we find that balance of making it fun

and also competitive?

And I challenge the kids, and I do it in a way that's positive.

And when they respond, like it's just, it's the best feeling.

Like,

there was this one kid last year.

He's very talented.

He's one of our better players.

And

for a stretch of the season, he seemed timid.

He was thinking too much.

The night before the playoff weekend, we had a semifinal because we had gotten the number one seed.

We had a semifinal in the championship on Sunday.

Semifinal Saturday.

Toilet Saturday.

JJ's team is good.

Yeah.

We had a practice Friday night.

And I had.

been talking to him about this this concept of like when you see space attack space And this kid like all of a sudden had a great practice.

It was like a breakthrough.

And then he played great that weekend.

Do you know how good I felt as a coach to see that?

And like, I want every kid to feel that.

I felt that as a player.

When you feel that as a player, like this is the thing that I'm trying to get better at.

And then I do it and I get results and then I do it again and then I do it again.

Like that's growth.

And as a coach, that's what I'm like doing this for.

There's a video that I saw that I want to play for you because I want to put some sound and some video to just you interacting with your team.

We're going to be patient with you if we're going to teach you how to play basketball, okay?

We're going to do the skill work, but we're going to say try to play basketball.

It's two different things, okay?

Secondly, I thought the drill we did to seven, I thought that was so competitive.

How hard you guys ran,

how well you listened on the colors, that was like amazing.

It was spectacular.

You guys were awesome.

I know this stuff is a little new.

We're going to figure it out.

We're going to do it together.

Okay?

Pick and roll stuff was great.

I put a lot on your plate today, and you guys really responded well.

So,

yeah.

You said I ate it.

We'll give you more.

We'll give you more.

So we are going to continue confusing.

That wasn't even the appetizer course.

That wasn't even the appetizer course.

All right, let's bring it in.

Let's bring it in.

Where we got, coach.

Where we got, coach.

Let's go.

Hard work on three.

Family on six.

One, two, three.

Family.

Four, five, six.

Family.

I mean, it's a sitcom.

I mean, first off, the kids are hilarious.

The kids are so funny.

We ate it.

It's the greatest.

I've said it's the greatest joy getting to coach them.

I tell the parents that.

I tell the kids that.

It's the greatest joy to coach them.

You're not talking to them in like parent talking to child baby voice.

That's your voice.

How different would it be if you were talking to NBA players?

Very different.

You know, some of the words I may use in terms of how we call a concept.

Actually, I take that back.

Everything we do is based on NBA verbiage.

So that's what I'm getting at.

Yeah, no, I tell people this when they ask me about coaching nine to 10-year-olds, I tell them, I run our practices and I,

whether it's good or bad, I treat these kids like I would a college team or an NBA team.

I know you're a bit like me.

You walk around the world and you take notes and you're keeping track of the stuff that spills out of your brain that you can use for professional reasons and otherwise.

And I imagine that the notebook of stuff that you've been collecting that you would use as an NBA coach, coaching Jason Tatum or Pascal Siakam or Joelle Embiid, whoever else came to knock on your door, you're using it

with

third graders.

I've got a play sheet

on a notepad.

I write everything down.

I go through these legal pad, these legal notepads.

And so I have an ongoing list of plays.

We kind of add things.

Sometimes we take things out if it's not working.

The first thing I did, because at this age,

I don't know how many games you've watched, but certainly maybe the other team that you came to watch.

I watched one game of you.

The tendency at this age, and even last year, even more so, when this was second and third graders, the tendency is for everyone to just run to the ball.

You know, pass me the ball, pass me the ball.

So the first thing I had to do was just establish spacing concepts.

And we play a five out.

The next thing I had to do was figure out how to make everyone feel involved.

And so each spot, it's just five out delay.

Each spot.

Stan Van Gundy is somewhere so proud.

Is yes, facing the floor.

Is just named a spot.

So the right corner is called the step up spot.

So if we call step up, you're the guy.

Jampa, who in that video is the long-haired kid, he is automatic from the right corner.

So any play that we run where there might be strong side help out of that corner, he gets an open shot.

And I've told the kids, like, I'm not tracking this.

I just do it with my brain.

I don't have like tracking cameras, although we may get those in the, in the practice gym.

I'm talking to Synergy right now.

Yes, right.

Second spectrum dad is coming in.

But him taking an open shot from the right corner is one of our most efficient offensive plays.

So of course I'm going to put Jampa in the step-up spot.

Then the right wing is the ball handler spot.

The top guy is the takeout guy, the hub, if you will, the DeMontis Sabonis of the offense.

The left wing is the dribble two spot.

And the left corner is the backside spot.

A la Manu,

Ginoblu backside action, you know, screen down, dribble handoff, right?

So within that,

I can call now 20 to 25 plays for these kids.

And as soon as they go in the game, you're in this spot.

You're in this spot.

And the stress is maintain your spacing.

The ball will come to you.

There's a reason you're in this spot, right?

There's a reason.

And so

we get good offense, specifically against man-to-man.

I think the challenge for me as a coach, you know, we talk about challenges as a coach, is figuring out how nine-year-olds can break zone defenses.

So, I should say,

I should say that when I watched you guys, you guys played Dwight

in uptown Manhattan,

and I was embedded.

I was an embedded reporter among the parents.

Yes.

And an anonymous parent told me the following:

J.J.

Reddick is on a crusade against zone.

And he was not kidding.

He was like, this is a thing that

has become a priority.

I don't teach zone.

I don't teach zone.

Because I think you have to learn man-to-man concepts.

So we have like a shell drill that every NBA team runs.

You go four on four.

Last year, it was just basically swing the ball, get to boxes and elbows, shift with the ball.

This year, we've added some nuance where you actually interchange, but you maintain your boxes and elbows.

You know, I'll mess around and dribble penetrate and make them help, and then I'll swing the ball and then it's live, right?

And when you say that you are doing this, it is you in practice doing this.

Yes.

Which is another amazing mental image for me.

Yes.

And so I think you have to learn those concepts, right?

I think there's a difference to me

between developing kids and their understanding of basketball and trying to win games as nine and 10-year-olds.

I was going to ask you.

These two are not the same.

Yes.

And so

nine and 10-year-olds, generally speaking, the majority of them, now there's anomalies to all this.

The majority of them can't pass the ball more than 10 to 15 feet unless they get a running start or they throw a one-handed football type pass.

Most of them can't shoot three-pointers with any level of efficiency.

And so running a zone, you're bait is a, I call it a cheat code.

It's a cheat code.

It's a means to stay in ball games and try to win because you're too lazy to teach man-to-man concepts, right?

At this age, certainly by the time the kids are 12, 13 years old, you should be introducing zone concepts.

You need to be able to break a zone.

You need to be able to learn how to play zone, all that stuff.

There's no point.

It's the same thing.

Like,

you know, we have rules around pressing where like each tournament we go to within our our city league, I think it's last two minutes or last three minutes, you can press.

But there are, there are certainly teams in America at nine years old, eight years old, that are allowed to press all game.

What is the point of that?

How are you helping these kids understand how to play basketball?

Now,

my kids asked me this,

why don't NBA teams press?

I'm like, because the guards are too good.

If you put two on the ball in the NBA, they're going to find the open guy or they're going to dribble through it.

And then it's a four-on-three and you get a wide open three or a layup.

Like it's very simple.

I just want you to.

Nine-year-olds can't do that.

I get your point.

And part of my joy in watching you coach your team and win against Dwight is not just like, you know, you stalking the sideline and you being very serious, hands on hips, intense, when it was

22 to 6 at halftime.

It was also

the reminder that these kids are nine.

Your son, Knox, in that game, tried a spin move after his shoe fell off.

I forgot that happened.

And it was just like, yeah, he tried a spin move wearing a sock.

I was like, he slipped and fell and he got called for a travel.

And then he said to me after the game, he goes, I mean, the ref saw my shoe fall off.

He should have just let me do the spin move without calling the travel.

But speaking of traveling, I also watched you from afar.

And I do have documentary evidence, footage of this,

you talking to the refs at length about what constituted a travel.

Not in that specific case, I believe.

Yeah, no, it wasn't.

Of course, you recall what the case was because I walked up to you after the game and I was like, so what were you arguing with those presumably minimally paid referees working a nine-year-old basketball game?

You gave me an explanation that I cannot possibly articulate with the fervor that you did.

We had a game earlier this year in New Jersey.

It was a championship game of a one-day tournament and

we were up one at the end of the game

and they were allowed to press.

It was the last probably 30 seconds when this happened.

I'm very specific about who's allowed to take the ball out of bounds.

And so our takeout guy took it out.

We ran our press break and he threw it into my son.

And my son reached out with his arm

and the ball hit his arm and fell to the floor.

He then picked the ball up and broke the press.

But they called a double dribble.

That's not a double dribble.

Okay.

That's not a double dribble.

So within that game that you came, the same thing happened.

And in both cases, I went to the referee and I said, can you explain that?

In New Jersey, the ref said to me, he said, you're right.

That wasn't a double dribble.

I was out of position.

i shouldn't have made that call we lost that game

when i went to the ref at dwight school and i asked him about he said i have the rule book with me that is a double dribble and i said okay

i'm gonna continue this crusade to figure out how that's gonna be called

for the next eight years of my kids life There is no more clear idea of what you would be like in an NBA game than how you were with these refs after this this game.

They do, I believe, won like 35 to 22 or something.

Yeah.

There was a comeback at the end.

We had some kids that were a little under the weather and we were up 33-11.

So I took our two best players out and they made a little comeback, put them back in.

We won.

It's all good.

That's right.

The shows the next day were just unforgiving, but you're right.

My substitution.

Everybody was just killing your patterns.

It was, what the f ⁇ is this guy doing?

But my favorite part was after the game, you argue with the refs, you walk away.

I'm just watching the the refs and they're like,

they're like laughing to each other immediately because they just argued with the guy who argues on television about basketball, who played basketball without coaching his son's team, that they referee as if this is a thing that happens, former NBA players coaching nine-year-olds, to the point where as the whistle blows, the first thing that happens is that the players on the team you just beat run over to you to get their jerseys autographed.

Yeah.

A mom interrupted your post-game huddle to have you take a selfie with her.

I was just watching this creepily off to the side.

I was like, this is, this is amazing.

My kids deal with it well.

They're like used to it by now.

I think there's certain referees that I don't probably have any idea that I am.

You know, they're just like, whatever, they're there.

This is why I said, I say to the kids, I'm like, guys, you have to respect.

Like, I have healthy conversations with the refs.

Of course.

You have to respect.

These these guys also love basketball.

They're coming

to referee your game on a Saturday at 9 a.m.

And then they're going to referee six more games after that.

And some of these guys have been doing this for 20, 25 years.

Like, respect it.

Dealing with parents.

Dealing with parents, dealing with, there are some, I've seen some crazy coaches.

I did get throw, I got thrown out of a game last year, which is the most, and I've told this story a million times, but it's the most, it was the most ridiculous thing.

Get to the end of the game.

Pressing is allowed, right?

We're trying to make a comeback.

And

there had been a few travel calls on my kids.

I feel like my kids, for the most part, don't carry, don't double-dribble, and don't travel.

Around the edges, some stuff,

the refs let them get away with some stuff.

But for the most part, we get a bad whistle with that because we just don't do it.

What happens inevitably at this age is when a team is egregiously traveling all the time, they're selective about the travels.

So we had gotten called for a couple of travels and two of which I didn't think were travels

and we're pressing at the end of the game, trying to come back.

And they throw the ball ahead to the front court and this kid literally shuffles his feet.

Then he runs with the ball.

And then he dribbles.

And all I said to the referee was, are you seriously not going to call that a travel?

And he teed me up.

And I said, did you seriously just give me a technical?

And he threw me out of the game.

There was no raised voice.

I didn't step to him.

I wasn't on the court.

I was literally like at half court on my side, on the sideline.

And so what do you do in that situation?

Because you're not in the NBA anymore.

You're at some random gym called Hoop Heaven in the middle of central Jersey.

And it feels like hoop hell.

Yeah.

And

so I'm like, do I do I leave the gym but I'm also Knox's ride home back to New York so I'm like no I'm just gonna go stand in the corner oh God

oh God luckily Geo was there that day because I can't imagine me getting thrown out of the game there's some games I have to coach alone because these guys are running all over New York coaching these travel days

and I'm like thank God Geo is there because otherwise I'd be like Jamal, Sean, Peter, anybody from the parents, just come coach the kids.

I just can't imagine a more infantilizing consequence for you as an adult now feeling like a child than to go stand in the corner for a while.

I didn't even react when he did it.

I was just like, okay.

The funny thing is that guy showed up an hour late for work that day.

There it is.

Our game was delayed.

He showed up an hour late.

I'm glad we're finally going to bring accountability.

I want to point out that one of the things that you've done in your capacity as

one of the voices and faces of NBA coverage who play in the league is that you provided a video for your players that I wanted to remind you of before your semifinal game.

Yeah.

Play for each other, and that should help you all a lot, man.

So you're confident, play hard, win that championship.

All right.

You hear what he said?

You hear what he said?

Here we are.

He said, you don't hear what he said?

He said, play for each other.

He said, play for each other.

I know Nox said, I'm nervous about this weekend.

I'm nervous about this weekend.

I am nervous about this weekend.

I am.

I am.

Let me tell you.

Hold on.

Let me.

He does not come to New York right now.

Let me tell you why you shouldn't be nervous.

Let me tell you why I'm not nervous.

No.

Because I got Liam.

I know, but this is why I'm telling myself.

Listen, I got Liam.

And I got Knox.

And I got Leo.

And I got Desi.

And I got Dylan.

James.

And James has Jampa.

And Dylan has Knox.

And Leo has Davis.

And Chase has Bond.

All right.

Leo has me.

All right.

We all got, you know, about everybody.

I just want to point out that at one point, one of the kids was like, can we see Damian Lillard this weekend?

He's not here this weekend.

He's not in New York this weekend, guys.

Get your minds back on track.

In retrospect, in retrospect, in that moment.

They had just seen a video from Damian Lillard addressed to them, and you're like...

Gave him no time.

There was no processing.

You didn't give them any time to let that

sink in.

That Damian Lillard had taken the time to make them a video going into their playoff week.

Correct.

Not a thing that most nine-year-olds, everyone expected.

That said, I did see.

Shout out to James, by the way, because when I watched him in this game against Dwight, James slapped the floor at one point.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is that just a thing you have?

No, no, no.

Oh, they just.

I'm not a floor slapper.

I did it a few times at Duke, I'm sure, but it's not a thing that I'm.

Your Honor, I am not a floor slapper.

It's not a thing that flies in court court from a Duke basketball player.

That's something I taught.

James just did that on his own.

After going through

all of these games as a coach of these kids,

what has it done to your relationship with your son?

I feel like that's the big subplot here: is that you're coaching, you're coaching Knox, a kid I want to point out.

I recently saw, I was revisiting this video, a kid who beat Josh Hart,

New York Knicks guard, in a three-point shooting contest.

Last year as an eight-year-old, he did.

I lost to an eight-year-old.

It's okay.

Knox won an eye-old.

Yeah, just saying, body's a little sore, you know what I mean?

Hey, man, you know, I was guarding Jamal Murray yesterday, man.

You know what I mean?

I dunked first time in like 40 games.

It's interesting.

I brought up with him.

You know, he had started in this rec league in September

in Manhattan.

And then he really wanted to do this travel team.

So he got on the team.

I'd been there, let's call it six weeks before I started assistant coaching, but before I ever coached a practice or coached a game as an assistant and then became, I checked in with him.

Knox, is this okay?

Do you want me to coach you?

Yeah, Dad, I want you.

I think it'd be awesome.

If it's never not awesome, please tell me.

Because the last thing that I want to do for him, who, by the way, and I'm not just saying this because he's my kid, is a sicko.

He's insane.

He tried a spin move with a sock on.

His obsession with the NBA is insane.

For Adam Silver and the NBA, like they're very worried about the young people loving basketball.

You need to just, whatever you're doing, like you need to do what you're doing with Knox.

Like this kid, every morning, first thing, wakes up.

Where's my iPad?

I got to watch NBA.

You know, they're allowed an hour of screen time.

I need to watch NBA top 10 from the night before.

He reacts

the way I did to Duke games as a kid when he watches Celtics games.

He's obsessed.

We were at a Nets game recently and Mikkel Bridges had this big first quarter.

I think he had like 26 in the first quarter.

And I was like, Knox, you know, he's on pace for 104 points.

And he's like, yeah, but dad,

the way Jacques Vaughn does his substitution pattern, Mikkel's not going to play the first six minutes of the second quarter, and he likely won't play the first six minutes of the fourth quarter.

So I just, I don't think the pace evens out where he's going to score 100.

And I'm like, yeah, no shit.

But the fact that he was able to articulate that about the Nets, who, if you asked him, they're probably his sixth favorite team.

If you're going to ask any national media member, what do you think of Jacques Vaughan's substitution patterns?

I don't think they would have a take as developed as your sons.

So I'm very cognizant of this.

I also have not made it a point, but I've reminded myself at times,

try to remove your bias.

I think that's a challenge for any parent.

Okay, let's be realistic about how hard that's been, though, because you are,

you're a, you're a dad.

Yeah.

I think the, the big thing for me was when he first started, he couldn't dribble a basketball.

Um, he couldn't.

I'm like, he, like, I remember the first practice he tried out, like, they're doing dribble drills, and he's one of the worst kids at dribbling.

And then they're doing two-ball dribble drills, and he, he's never done that before.

He can't dribble, right within like two months I'm like oh

he's one of the guys that can just drive past this guy every time like you need those guys you have to get two on the ball oh he can do it all right I'm gonna put him as a ball handler when we started this season I I was like I went the other way I was like I'm gonna take him off the ball I you know I'm cognizant of this and like the first six weeks of practice, the first game, first tournament game, I was like, this is not working for our team.

Our team is better when he's on the ball.

I wish all the kids could play on the ball.

I do.

Like, I'm trying to figure that out.

How do we get the ball in your hands more?

But you have to show me that you've developed the skill set to do it.

So Knox plays on the ball because that gives us the best option to create a good shot.

That's how I thought about this, right?

I'll give you an example of like removing the bias or whatever.

My big thing with him when he first started, because he is such a sicko, is that he's reacting to everything.

He feels it deeply.

I didn't realize this.

I didn't know this about my own son until he started playing basketball.

He's a sicko in terms of being a competitor.

Yes.

He feels winning and losing deeply.

And within a game, he feels winning and losing a possession deeply.

And he's not exactly great at hiding it, I imagine.

Exactly.

At that age.

So I'm like, we got to work on your body language, pal.

And so all last season, I'm on him about the body language.

Your teammate has a turnover.

Guess what, what, Knox?

You have a turnover.

You can't do this with your arms.

You can't do that.

You take bad shots too, buddy.

When your teammate takes a bad shot, you can't,

and then sulk downcourt.

You can't do that.

And so he was getting progressively better.

So last year, towards the end of the season in practice, he just had bad body language.

And I said, there was 15 minutes left in practice.

We were at the point in the practice where we scrimmage, which is typically the last like 20 to 25 minutes.

And he was just, he like three straight possessions.

I'm like, that's body language.

I didn't say that out loud, but I went over to him and I said, hey, bud, you're good.

I've talked to you about your body language.

You can go sit out the rest of practice.

Oh, man.

I wonder where he learned his conduct towards the referees from.

Oh, man.

Don't get me started.

Don't get me started.

I wonder what Knox thinks about you as an NBA coach.

Does he want you to do it?

Knox has this thing where he says

to everything we ask him, how was school today?

How did your game go?

Oh, you went to your friend's house for a play date.

You had a sleepover.

You just went to a birthday party.

Knox, how was it?

It was great.

Every time in his high-pitched voice, it was great.

Just like that.

When I've talked to him, like, hey, Knox, like,

you know, I potentially have this opportunity or Knox, you know, doing this.

Knox, what do you think about this?

He'll be like, oh, it'd be great.

Now,

like when he knows that I got asked to be on the Celtics coaching staff

prior to him being like a super fan.

Right.

Like it bothers him, I think.

Like I said, no, it bothers him.

But I've explained to him too, I'm like, Knox, if I coach, like the reason, one of the reasons that I love my job right now, other than Getting to talk about basketball, getting to sit courtside to call games, around with Stephen A.

on first take, getting to interview players.

Like, I love it.

I love my job.

But one of the things is that it allows me the flexibility to coach my kids.

Because I've also started coaching Kai on the weekends, his games,

which I'm much more mild-mannered there.

Because he's how old?

He's in first grade.

Jesus Christ.

And he's got kindergartners on his team.

And they play on a nine-foot hoop.

So I'm very.

I'm very mild-mannered there.

That's like the Sunday hangover thing.

They've always got like a 9 or 10 a.m.

game where you just walk in and you're just like, I'm just going to have fun with these kids.

This is fun.

You know?

I got to tell you, I don't believe you.

I don't believe that you have chill mode.

We are 5-1 since I took over.

I'm just going to say.

Coach Reddick.

And I mean this.

This was great.

This is always fun.

This is always fun.

Thanks for the idea, man.

I mean, look, when, I don't know what actor you want to play you in the sitcom, but I just want to produce a credit.

Okay.

Deal.

It's a deal.

Sold.

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Metalark Media Production.

And I'll talk to you next time.