Who the F*** Is Wayne Federman?

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Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out.

I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

I don't know if you know what an optometrist.

I don't know.

No, I don't know any optometrist.

Well, I didn't think you did.

So, in that case, that's why I'm invoicing you.

Okay, you send me the invoice.

I'm going to rip it up into tiny little pieces, and I might even pee on it.

Right after this ad.

I just have to say, like, the way we met each other

is one of the most bizarre meet-cuts

that my audience is already exhausted by because I talk about the thing we were at way too much.

You've already talked about it?

No, not

you are the big reveal.

Oh, okay.

Like the big payoff of going to the fancy ceremony we were at in Los Angeles.

Yep.

And I can't say it because I've been actually told by my producer, stop talking about how you arranged this thing.

Yeah.

Oh, we don't have to talk about the thing.

We can just talk about the meeting as if it was without the environment with the end.

Well, I just feel like it's, it's hard because part of the legend of you, it was sort of like through

a gradual osmosis as I look, you came up to me.

Yeah.

And I know who you are.

So it's like, well, but

like, but I had a, I had what can only be described as the Wayne Fetterman experience, which is I locked eyes with you

with a latent familiarity that I could not place.

And welcome, welcome to my world.

But over and over again, these luminaries, like at one point, like Fred Armiston interrupted our conversation.

Yeah, that happened.

And said, Wayne Fetterman.

And I was like, who the f is Wayne Fetterman?

I didn't say that, but I was thinking it now that I can reveal that to you.

Yeah, that's

a great way to describe me.

Who the f

is Wayne Fetterman?

So I just got to point out that I do feel confident declaring something about that existential question that Wayne Fetterman has just articulated for us, which is that you,

like me,

have actually seen this guy before.

I have seen

all of Kirby's enthusiasm.

You have?

I have.

How many times?

At least once.

The full thing.

Even though it lasted decades, there was only 12 seasons.

I believe that's right.

Just so you know, they kind of like to live in the analog world a little bit.

Which is another way of saying that Wayne Fetterman is both a part of comedy history and also one of its most acclaimed historians.

And this is beyond the stuff he's done with Larry David and also beyond any of the 95 acting credits on one of the most amusing pages that I've ever seen on IMDb.com.

Wayne has won an Emmy for producing a documentary about the life of George Carlin for HBO.

He is working right now on a doc about Norm McDonald.

He also used to be a ventriloquist and a monologue writer at one point for Bob Newhart as well as Jimmy Fallon.

And also, in general, he's the type of person who was at Eddie Murphy's 21st birthday party at Studio 54.

And the reason I was there is because I was starting to do stand-up comedy

and my main club was the comic strip.

And Eddie Murphy's manager was the guy, Richie, who ran the comic strip.

So he was like, do you want to come to this party?

I was like, yeah.

And so, yeah,

I treasure the point of view of a guy like Wayne Fetterman.

Somebody who keeps finding himself in these rooms that I personally have always wanted to find out about.

Even if the entire reason that Wayne and I started talking is that he is a hugely curious sports fan with a particular passion project, which we'll get to, who mostly wanted to talk to me about this room.

Like the room we are in right now.

These gentlemen over here behind the glass, do they fact-check what you're saying in real time?

Do they signal you?

They tend to shame me in my ears.

What happens over there?

They're laughing

at how often they sometimes have to do that.

And I don't credit them at all.

Because it's just omniscience.

That's who I am.

I am aware of all of your credits.

Of course.

Which is, by the way,

a list that I do not have enough time to actually recite.

We don't have to do that.

But the way that you are that guy,

this is not an abstract description.

A lot of your credits have the word guy

in them.

Thank you for Dimitische and the whole thing.

I like it.

No question.

No question.

But, you know, I saw Legally Blonde.

You did?

Of course.

Yeah.

And

I just have to say thank you for being in my studio, admissions guy.

She also designed a line of faux fur panties for her sororities charity project.

Uh-huh.

She's a friend to the animals as well as a philanthropist.

Elle Woods.

Welcome to Harvard.

Well, like I'd like to say, I know it's a small part, but if Elle Woods doesn't get into Harvard, as I've said many times,

there's no movie.

So that movie is about me.

By the way, that is maybe of the movies I've done, even though I've done many,

I feel like that movie has the deepest social impact, even more than Knocked Up or Stepbrothers.

I was going to say, even more than your turn as fantasy baseball guy in Knocked Up.

Guy.

Let's emphasize guy, please.

Uh, Carlos Delgado.

Excellent choice.

Too bad I got him three rounds.

It was still on the clock.

Oh,

gotta do something.

Oh,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hit me, Matsui.

You just took my whole outfield.

Sorry, Charlie.

What is this?

Debbie.

What the f is this?

That's our fantasy baseball draft.

We said no wives.

Your fantasy what?

That's our draft.

The fantasy baseball.

I told you all about this.

Got Matsui.

But fantasy baseball guy is a key character because, look, for those not familiar, Leslie Mann suspects Paul Rudd is cheating on him.

Correct.

Only to discover that he's been, you know, hiding away at his fantasy baseball draft.

Right.

And there in front of the whiteboard.

In a role that I can only assume you had prior experience with, there is Wayne Fetterman holding the stopwatch, running the draft.

And here's the thing you should know about me.

Paul Rudd was an expert at this.

I am not.

I'm not really a baseball guy.

So that's how good an actor I am.

Did it look like I knew what I was doing?

You were authoritative.

Yeah, yeah.

And also pathetic in the way that any good fantasy baseball draft would be.

And you know who was also sitting right there next to Paul Rudd?

Director Paul Feig.

It's a Paul-Paul situation

who I used to do stand-up with.

I mean, you're the

I'm a bridge to another time.

I should clarify that when you reference stand-up and comedy, you are also famed.

And this is not even me kissing your ass.

It's like objectively true.

You're a professor of stand-up comedy at USC.

Correct.

But really, what I teach there is the history of stand-up comedy because I do teach a class, an advanced class in it, but you can't teach anyone to be funny.

So it's sort of a rip-off for those students.

Well, you're also the author of the history of standard comedy.

Yes, yeah, yeah.

And as well as, again, yet more things which I guess we'll just unfurl as we go.

Is it too much for you?

No, it's just, it's just, I have an, I have

a text file on my computer that resembles my attempt at organizing your life.

Okay.

And I haven't even gotten to the fact that you're also blind man.

Oh, yeah.

And stepbrothers.

Hey, Robert, what's all the commotion?

Hey, hey, Don.

Is that your wife, Nancy?

Right here, Don.

Can I come over this afternoon and touch your face?

Sure.

Thanks.

Good luck, guys.

See you, Don.

Let's go, cinnamon.

Heel, cinnamon.

Heel, cinnamon.

One of the greatest roles.

The greatest Fetterman and Outs.

No question.

So the Fetterman and Out.

Yes.

Please explain.

What happened?

I kept appearing in these movies, not so much on television, but in just one scene.

Legally blind as admissions guy, blind guy and stepbrothers.

So I was, and then I was like, okay, this is now a thing where no one wants to see me more than once.

Or as I say it, I'm probably just too brilliant.

Not in my acting, just like on screen, it's just too much for people to handle.

Overwhelming.

Overwhelming.

Overwhelming.

So I'm in one scene.

I do something funny and I leave.

And I just self-branded it, The Fetterman and Out.

Again, nobody really knows about it, but I just think it's funny to say.

I mean, 50 First States, 40-year-old virgin.

And it's just the movies with numbers in them, I guess, as I keep on going here.

They're funny.

But you're also, by the way, this is the other part.

One of my favorite shows ever is Community.

It is?

Yes.

Have you seen the full

even on Yahoo?

Even on That's the Season I Was on.

So the last.

Can I ask you a question?

Just to

turn it around a little bit.

Like when I went to Yahoo as a community fan, how did it feel?

It took me years to get to.

It did.

I'm not going to lie.

Right.

Why would you start lying?

Well, because I just.

Why would you even say you would?

Because I am as.

I'm a journalist, Wayne.

That's the difference between me and the other people you've appeared on podcasts.

Okay.

Okay.

I'm here with an obligation to tell the truth.

Yeah.

And despite loving community.

Loving it.

Loving it.

So, yeah, that's really what I'm.

I'm confused by how much I love a show that you yourself were a pivotal in the end.

No, of course.

But before we get to that, I just, I'm just.

This is new in television, where a television show is da-da-da-da-da-da-da, and then right at the end goes to a whole different section of the the broadcast.

Yeah, the broadcast world.

Yeah.

And you resisted it.

It took a while because.

Tell me why.

Because

to describe my frustration and my awe of how media works now, there are just a zillion things.

And once you're out of my point of view, I unfortunately might love you, but I will forget you.

Okay.

Which I think brings us back to you because you have often been literally in my line of sight.

Yeah.

And you keep on coming back

to the point that you are like the final

you play,

the role you play in community, by the way, in the finale, in the series finale,

is that of father, not guy.

Not this is a big, this is a big jump for me.

Big evolutionary development.

I couldn't sleep the night before.

I was like, I'm not a guy.

Who am I?

A father?

Okay, okay.

Let me work on this character.

Sorry, Dad.

Guess I win.

You stupid child.

Nobody's winning anything.

Don't you see?

This means we don't exist.

We're not created by God, created by a joke.

We were never born and we will never actually live.

I think you have the most expansive social network of anybody in comedy.

Genuinely, at this point.

I mean, by the way, take it on face value.

I like that you're yelling.

I love it.

Wayne, tell him the emotion.

Wayne, when it comes to

the theory of you.

Yeah, the theory of Fetterman.

It is a node.

And into that node is, I think, literally everybody in Hollywood.

There is a lot.

Do I give you credit for that?

Is this by design?

The fact that you are, in fact...

No, I'm just literally one

gig at a time.

You're like a multiversal character.

You like show up in the cinematic universes of all of these separate parallel worlds.

And the only unifying thing is kind of you.

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I've been just inhaling all of these cameos, appearances, Reddit threads.

By the way, there's a Reddit thread that asks, and again, in curb your enthusiasm, as you catch people up, you play a character by the name of Dean Weinstock.

Not guy.

Again, in movie, I'm a little more in television.

I have a little more of a part than I do in film.

Go ahead.

But the question posed in the subject of this Reddit thread

is, quote, is Dean the biggest douche ever on the show?

Two question marks.

I love it.

I love it.

Well,

you've watched the show.

All on homebox office, I assume.

That's right.

Yeah.

Hard to argue.

Hard to argue.

You are such a douche that they summoned you.

I believe, this is doing the math beer.

You first appear in episode six of season one.

Correct.

The economy of douche-ness.

Thank you.

Thank you.

You show up as a lawyer, and immediately you're like, I hate this guy.

Hi.

Hi.

How are you?

Hi, Dan.

Hi, Dean.

Hi, Dean.

I'm Larry.

Hi, Philly.

Larry Names.

Hello.

Hi, Ellie Slime.

I'm finally in the house that Jerry Seinfeld built.

With his own hands.

And some hammers.

He actually worked on it, like Jimmy Carter.

How did you get that role?

Well, I knew Larry from stand-up.

I knew him right, right.

Stand-up is like high school.

Like you're a freshman, they're senior, so you don't really hang out that much.

So I would introduce him at the comic strip.

We had spoken about that earlier.

And it was always the same.

Anyone who worked with Larry was the same.

He was notorious for cutting his sets short if it wasn't going well.

So I would injure here he is from Fridays, Larry David.

He would come up and then he would shake your hand and go, stay close.

You know, and it means don't go out of the room and wait for the 10 minutes or the 12 minutes.

In case he wants to fail 100%.

That was his move.

That was his move.

And so I knew him from then.

And I,

and then, you know, all those years, by the way, I know you think I'm in the universe of everything, but

I

thought for for sure 100%

I was going to show up on Seinfeld and something like that.

100%.

That's how confident I was.

And, you know, God laughs.

I don't know if you know the expression.

Yes.

He's making plan.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it never happened.

I was like, damn.

Never.

And I knew Jerry, the whole him.

Yeah, right.

You came up in stand-up.

Yeah.

Jerry was a little, but, but we had done the first Aspen Comedy Festival together.

So again, the disappointments.

I know you're doing the highlights, but there's also along the way, there have been numerous like, okay, this is not quite what I had hoped for.

And so when that show started, I had seen the hour special, so I sort of knew the vibe of it.

And I auditioned, believe it or not, for the blind guy later that I got in Step Brothers.

as you know, you had just mentioned.

But there's this blind character who like boss is also a douchebag, right?

I didn't get it and then i was like is this gonna be another seinfeld situation for me and then the next one was like all when you i auditioned all that they said was they gave you a piece of paper you're the biggest fan of julia louis dreyf that's all they said and then you went in larry was there and you just improv the whole thing right so it's just so i understand because again just the the the mechanics of curb which is famously improvisational yes the premise is set meaning larry has a wire running across his backyard that he and cheryl hate yeah yeah all of this is written.

Yes.

All of that, the beats of the story are written.

You know this.

Right.

And so the lawyer that they summon, who is you, their neighbor, who needs to basically sign off on the

burial of the wire.

Right.

For the neighborhood.

For the neighborhood.

Exactly.

Yeah.

That is set.

But in terms of how you do you, how you fetterman and out,

that was a surprise to everybody.

I found that.

Does that look familiar at all to you?

Is that yeah?

Where'd you get this?

It was in my house.

It was under a cushion by the chair.

I was just wondering if that was yours.

Yeah.

I didn't know.

Thank you.

Thank you.

There's a reward involved with that.

Just look right in the front part.

It says $500 to the person who returns this to L.

David.

I put two and two together and thought the L stood for Larry.

Here was my strategy.

Very simple.

Was because I am a very nice, effusive guy.

Like, that's my thing since I was a kid.

But I was like, okay, I immediately got, okay, that I wanted to, under the guise of being nice, be the worst possible human being.

So every time I say it, it's like in a friendly way, like, oh, this has to be, yeah, we got to get this taken care of.

Like, not in any aggressive, the most passive aggressive, I think is the term.

It's always been a dream of mine to meet Julie and Louis Dreyfus and

just meet her in person.

And if you could just make a phone call and make that happen, that would be so

great.

You know what?

I'm more than happy to call her up.

I can't guarantee.

So it's so hard to get anything absolutely guaranteed.

It's like when it gets buried, you don't know if it's guaranteed or either.

You don't even know if that's impossible because there's a lot of papers to be signed.

I agree with you there.

But

after I did that episode, and it went so well, it was sent out as a nominee for an Emmy Award.

So they, not only I liked what I did, but they liked what I did.

And they were like, oh, this is set.

You're going to be the neighbor.

Larry loves, you know, like these running characters.

It's going to be, you're like Newman or something like that.

Someone's cooking.

Hello, Jerry.

Hello, Newman.

Next season, they moved for a number of reasons.

And that was.

That's right.

They changed houses.

yes.

So, I know it's just a funny thing for you, but it was crushing for me.

Like, right, because I was like, okay, this is gonna be a fun role.

So, were you surprised when you were brought back now, 56 episodes later?

I love the math.

Thanks, guys.

Thanks, guys.

Episode 62 titled Vehicular Fallatio.

Yes.

And Dean Weinstock is back.

Larry?

Larry Dave.

Dean.

Dean Weinstock.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

He's going to be your next-door neighbor.

Yeah.

Hey, man.

It is so good to see you.

Hey.

Hey.

Whoa.

Oh, Christ.

Oh, my God.

These are broken.

Thank you.

Thank you.

But when they bring you back, I mean, years later.

This is now over 10 years later, right?

And it's almost, yes, and it's almost like an inside joke, if you remember.

Because

part of the premise of this is Larry re-encounters Dean Weinstock, and the

interaction is so fucking good.

Thank you.

In terms of two people who, again,

who kind of

the through line of this whole episode so far is what happens when you meet someone that you kind of remember but aren't sure exactly who it is?

And the way you handle it

ends up being passive-aggressive to the point of...

like driving Larry David insane.

And it's just so good to see you, man.

I saw to you.

Good to see you.

I'm sorry about your glasses.

Don't worry about it.

Don't worry about it.

I'll send you a bill.

Tell me, how's Cheryl?

Where'd you guys move to?

What?

They'll send me a bill?

Yeah,

these are, I don't think these can be fixed.

What is that?

Yeah.

Same strategy.

The only thing was, was like, I was trying to figure out how am I going to justify once these glasses.

That's all I was like.

We're going to hug.

The glasses are going to break, and you're going to ask me to pay for them.

That's all I said.

So I'm thinking, how am I to

make this just seem in any way reasonable in the real world to anyone?

So that's what I was.

And I came up with like an angle on it, like, oh, okay, okay, he just needs to replace the glasses instead of pay for that.

So I went up to him before the thing.

I go, I think I have, and he's like, no, no, no, don't tell me anything.

I don't want to know.

We'll do it on camera.

And it just,

I

haven't really ever said this, but he was laughing so much during that scene.

Every time I would just do the, no, it's no big deal.

You just replay, you know, just the casualness of

almost like the bloodless attempt to just coerce you to give you money.

Even if I did initiate the hug, which I didn't,

that still doesn't make me responsible for your glasses.

They're your glasses.

They're around your neck.

With all due respect, I feel like you didn't recognize me.

Then I did the hay.

Then I did the shake.

And then you came in.

And because you were so embarrassed and so mortified that you did not recognize me, you overcompensated by a super strong hug that broke my glass.

That's an incredibly idiotic theory.

I think because you're a needy person, you wanted me to like you.

So you hug me.

I'm not a needy person.

Okay, that's number one.

I have no needs at all.

Okay.

I do know there are some people, I have not gone deep dive, that are like, they break it down frame by frame who reached out, who started, who initiated, who instigated or initiated.

Those are close words, but not exactly synonymous.

So it was,

you know, it was a little, there is a little bit of a...

Yeah, how devious is Dean Weinstock as a subtext here?

Right.

Was that intentional?

Did he fall down in front of a car?

Who has glasses around their neck?

The whole thing was, but the whole thing of the building to...

Am I a librarian?

Who wears the glass?

Come on.

But

the whole thing of you navigating the traffic of human interaction only to reveal, oh, by the way.

I don't know if you know an optometrist.

I don't know.

No, i don't know any optometrist well i didn't think you did so in that case that's why i'm invoicing you okay you send me the invoice i'm going to rip it up into tiny little pieces and i might even pee on it why are we fighting we're fighting because you're a moron that's why we're fighting you know i have cancer right

you know that's why i'm here

i don't want to have a fight with you in fact my doctor said to not have any fights at all Boom, the cancer card.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's just like...

That was him.

That was him.

That was, that was, that was the only thing.

And then

you were driving towards that payoff.

And it's been, I would love one day, maybe, if anyone's listening to find the outtakes, because he was really.

Oh, I was going to ask, how often does he break?

He breaks a lot.

He has a little bit of a, what we call a comedic class jaw.

Look,

regardless of how often he laughs, I have to imagine that making that guy in specific laugh has to be like a glorious feeling for someone who wants to make others laugh.

It's like Larry David.

I'm like, I'm literally getting emotional.

You say, yeah, he's a genius.

It's like, yeah, I couldn't.

Yeah.

It was

for sure a career highlight.

Yeah.

Now, do you know about Larry and I's, you know, the character came back once more.

Ooh.

No, this evaded my research.

Well, this is,

I don't know if I'm, all right.

I think I can talk because it's out.

Apple,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, hired Larry to do

an in-house episode where he was the guy who approved apps.

It's basically, okay.

Okay.

Apple hired Larry David to make a bar mitzvah video for them for you.

You can imagine the amount of money.

Okay.

You can imagine the amount of money.

And then

Secret Pun never

aired because I don't know.

Internal use only.

Oh, yes.

Yeah.

This is for WWDC,

which is the Worldwide Developers Conference.

So they, I don't know if you know this because it keeps popping up and then getting taken down immediately.

My favorite genre of internet artifact is this kind.

It is repeated.

Is there a word for it?

It's a bit of a snow leopard.

It just like appears, disappears, reappears.

But yes, he's an app reviewer.

Yes.

Okay, so please take us into the

I'm allowed to talk about it.

Yeah, because I signed, I signed something.

I signed on NDA.

Apple doesn't have a lot of money.

They're not going to

have legal budgets.

Right, right.

So,

yeah.

So I've signed.

I've signed.

Right now I'm breaking whatever that is.

I'm disclosing.

Yeah.

So

that's, so in that one, Dean, he's going in and I'm drafting behind him because I left my passkey, which just happened to you, at home.

What are you doing?

Telegating?

I just need to get in.

Do you work here?

Yeah, I've been working here for eight years.

Where's your tag?

That's the thing I left out at home.

Yeah, well, you know.

Just keep walking.

We're going to go in together.

You're trying to coast on my security wake?

It doesn't matter.

If the situation were reversed, I'd do this for you.

The situation were reversed.

Yeah.

Or was reversed.

I don't know if it's were or was reversed.

I would say were, yeah.

My point is, if the situation were reversed, I'd do it for you.

That's hard.

Oh, but you know what?

You can't reverse situations.

Situations...

Only Superman can reverse a situation by spinning around the world and making it go the other way, okay?

And you're not Superman.

And even if you were, you don't have an ID.

And you couldn't prove it.

So you couldn't even prove you're Superman.

It's the rules.

You just follow the rules.

Yes, yes,

Germany.

Exactly.

And that worked out well.

Well, they were very well organized.

And then at the end, of course, he leaves his and these behind me.

You need to get in.

You don't have your...

I would be happy to let you in, seriously, but I learned this morning that situations don't reverse themselves.

This reverse.

It's unprecedented.

It's

an unprecedented reversal situation.

That gentleman will help you.

I usually would.

I don't like rules.

I would never

do anything to anybody.

I'll kill you.

Just sidebar, what are they...

What happens if you break a non-disclosure?

Can you get sued?

Like, what is what?

I mean, obviously, I'm not worried about it, but just in general, what is the thing?

We're going to have my producers just check on that.

Okay.

Let's see.

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Subject to change.

Something that was a lot easier to obtain.

And again, so during the pandemic, this is, again, just the way in which you have seeped into my

crevices of my brain.

During the pandemic, I got into the Larry Sanders show.

Oh, my God.

For the first time.

I had never seen it, knew it as like your favorite comedian's favorite comedy.

Right.

And can I ask how old you are?

I am 39.

Oh, you seem more youthful than that.

Thank you.

I think it's just

Asian skin.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, that's right.

And your mom.

Yeah, epidermitologist.

Yeah.

Okay.

Do you do

no, but do you do a regimen?

I, I, my mom has, has yelled at me for 39 years that I should do a regimen.

And I'm like, I got natural oils.

Come on.

This is where I'm good.

So I'm just doing the math back to Larry Sanders.

Allow me to be the nine zillionth person to say, oh, that show's good.

But you appear in a key episode.

Yes, I do.

Again, you have this capacity to just like wind up at these pivotal moments in these series.

And it's season six, episode six.

Yep, six, six.

Yep.

And do you remember your character's name?

Sure.

I mean, what are you talking about?

That's Stan Sanders, the brother of Larry Sanders.

Okay.

Stan.

Hey, God, it's great to see you.

Hey, it's been too long.

Great to see you.

Come on in.

Thanks for the limousine.

Are you kidding?

Great.

Now, I shouldn't have tipped that guy, right?

No,

I completely took care of that.

You don't have to worry.

Come on.

Great.

Just an original?

Don't touch it.

Just come on in.

Never before seen.

Never before really spoken about.

There's an earlier episode where Colin Quinn, I'm sure you know that comedian, plays like the son of Rip Torrance character or the nephew or something like that.

So it was like, I think that worked so well.

They were like, okay, what if, you know, we learned a little about this Megalomania's life, you know, a little and how that would turn out.

Yeah.

What if his brother was

again, just like cravenly

a schemer?

Right.

Have no sentimentality

whatsoever.

Zero.

Shows up.

Same kind of thing.

Friendly guy.

Like going through baseball cards at a simulation of their childhood only to pitch

only to pitch Gary Shandling, Larry Sanders, on a quote-unquote legitimate business venture that involves Gary?

My friend.

Which guy's hand?

He's the guy that can get his hands on these diamonds.

They're uncut.

Oh.

He brings them over from South Africa at $7 million.

As soon as they come over, it's $25 million.

Everything's included.

It's certified.

That's something.

Yeah.

And also, what to do for his final episode, which is

a pay-per-view finale.

Yeah.

Remember Carson's last show?

The last show, the big last show?

Yeah.

How many people do you think tuned in for that?

How many viewers?

We're in the business.

I don't know.

20 million.

20 million.

It sounds right.

Yeah, well, that's why Carson's an idiot.

Because if he had had just done a pay-per-view at $39 a pop, he would have made $800 million one night.

That's before video or anything.

Idiot.

Just...

Which is actually like ahead of its time.

When it comes to the future of media, John Skipper, a former Eastern president who does this show often, he often talks about how the Super Bowl one day should just go pay-per-view.

All right.

And so you kind of presaged the premise of just like, hey, there's a finale.

You should drain every cent out of the American public.

By the way, the people that created a hit show that's on right now called The Studio,

the two guys that wrote my episode are the guys that created The Studio.

Were they responsible for Adolph Hankler?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, by the way, the fact that that's the undercard in this conversation.

No, even better than Adolph Hankler, which is insane.

Which is like an insane comedy.

So briefly, Jon Stewart is filling in.

So Gary Jandling, Larry Sanders, is nearing the end of his run as the host of the Larry Sanders show.

Jon Stewart is filling in for him in this like changing of the guard.

And one of the first things he does is he has

Hank,

Jeffrey Tambour, the great Jeffrey Tambour,

the sidekick, dress and just be Hitler

in a game show, a fake game show.

In a fake game show.

You won the coin toss backstage.

Pick the first category.

I'll take 20th century history, Adolf.

Good.

Because of the sinking of the Titanic.

What is an iceberg?

No, I'm sorry.

The correct response is, what were the Jews?

Sometimes you see a time capsule in television where you're like, how have I not heard about this until now?

And that episode was so saturated with just like

all of this happened.

This is the season, again, the last season of the show, right?

And it's just one of the greatest.

And Jason Alex and Jason Alexander.

Yes.

Yes, he's there.

He walks walks out as a representative of the ADL, I believe he is.

He's a celebrity.

You're good.

You're good.

No, but

all of which is to say that Gary Shanling,

for you, I mean, this is my way of finally winding around to the fact that part of the reason that we got along when we first met is because you're an actual like basketball fan.

You're a huge sports fan, but basketball in particular.

Yes.

Yes.

You are, unfortunately, for the time constraints of this episode,

maybe

Hollywood's foremost expert on pistol Pete Maravich.

Well, there's a number of people have written books on Pete Maravich.

But Hollywood's, I just feel like it's weird that you're,

like, I love passion projects.

One of your passion projects was

to tell the, I guess, cinematically adapted story of Pete Maravich.

I've always wanted to do a movie about his life because I thought it was Shakespeare and basketball.

Like, that's the story of Pete Maravich, in my opinion.

Like, just crazy tragic.

And you know all the beats to it.

And so.

But for those who don't, I mean, like, what's the log line of the people?

Well, it's a story.

A kid who, with a father who is a basketball coach, dedicates his childhood to become the greatest basketball player of all time by

practicing obsessively eight hours a day alone, whatever that skill is, and then becomes just through luck and his.

absolute dedication to this, becomes this not only incredible basketball player, but a showman.

Yes.

Like becomes a Harlem Globetrotter playing in a real basketball game.

One of the most creative players in the history of sports.

For athletes, period, in any sport.

Right, right.

Before the game would start during the national anthem, he'd look up at the flag and then he'd look over to the scoreboard.

It's showtime.

But he's not happy playing in the NBA.

I forget the college stuff where he averaged 44 points.

He's the all-time scoring leader.

Four points against the NCAA history.

Right.

And so

then he goes to the pro, not happy in the pros, says very early on, like, as soon as I win a championship, I want to get out of it.

This is not as fun as I thought it was going to be.

And then has a very star-crossed career, becomes all pro,

does great, but doesn't get the chip, as they say, as they like to say.

Have you ever seen?

I mean, I assume that you have.

Yeah, tell me.

One of the all-time great videos is the Pete Maravich Instructional.

Ball handling and spinning.

That's what we're going to go over today.

And you know, there's basic fundamentals of ball handling, and there's also creative fundamentals.

And that's what I'm going to show you today.

The basic fundamentals, the creative fundamentals.

You're going to have a lot of fun doing these drills.

I write about it in the book extensively.

It's one of the, it's done.

within eight months of his death.

Is that right?

Yes, it's done in 87.

He dies in January 88.

It's so amazing to watch because it's like a magician telling you, this is how I do my tricks.

And a lot of the tricks involve like snapping your wrists in ways that I didn't know were physically possible.

Yeah,

that's a quote from Red Hourback that Pete

breaks the rules of physics.

All of a sudden, you're coming down like this, and all of a sudden, you take that ball and you go right here and you go,

and the ball goes on the other side.

It's amazing.

And what happens?

You know what's happened?

The guy there is going to eat air.

You ever seen a guy eat air?

That's what happens on that path.

Called the wrist pad.

Right here.

Straight over.

It's very deceptive.

How do you throw it?

You lock your arms completely out.

You lock your arms completely out.

It's all wrist.

It's just wrist.

It's wrist.

And then they gradually, like, incrementally get harder and harder.

So they get to the point where no one can do it unless you spend hours and hours alone doing it.

And he does it like, do it.

It's fun.

Like, no, Pete, we can't do it you can do it

so do it it's fun so he was just oblivious to how difficult these things were but i guess because he mastered them he figured oh any kid can master not even thinking that maybe he was gifted in some way so he was just beautiful yeah those tapes are incredible oh but but you're describing something that i am eternally intrigued by, which is like, what does genius actually entail?

Yeah.

And there is effectively this ineffable, irreproducible aspect of like, you can try to copy, you can, you can, you can grind as much instructional videotape by Pete Maravich as you want, but you can't be one of the truly tragically youngest players ever inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball.

Correct.

Correct, correct.

Because he dies at, how old was he?

He's 40.

I mean, just like, again, speaking of my preemptive horror of my own existentialism.

like that's right on the cusp.

That's wild.

Yeah.

Like, again, there are examples of athletes dying young, but the movie version of this man's life in which he dies during a pickup game

in 1988 because he has a...

Right.

Yeah.

In California, right over there, right across the country.

And it's because, I mean, I guess this is not the medical term, but it is a broken heart.

He has this undetected heart defect.

When they did an autopsy to find out why he collapsed on this basketball court, they found out that he was missing his right coronary artery.

Born with it that way.

A defective heart.

Basically, half his heart wouldn't bump.

I mean, it's almost stunning because here's a guy that ran his whole life.

Unlike Secretariat, who, when they opened up his heart,

He had an enlarged heart.

His heart was bigger.

He basically had a bigger engine than the horses he was riding against.

Pete had a smaller heart, but stronger in some ways.

So there's this magical part of his career that's now, and because he had become a Christian and was proselytizing and sharing his testimony very much for the last six years of his life, he has this

aura about him beyond the basketball.

And he said, and it's weird, you know, I love the guy so much.

He said, if if i'm only known for being a basketball guy i would feel like that wasn't a success for him like there was more to life than that and unfortunately most people that's how they know that the guy so it's uh it's beyond cinematic and the year he leaves the very next year the team he left wins the championship sure how about that yeah pablo but

how about finding out about that well what i want to find out is who would you have cast as pete merritt oh i don't know it would have to be it's so that would be the tricky part.

You need a guy who can actually plausibly do it.

Yeah, I did.

That's a good question because it kept changing.

You know, who wanted to do it when the book came out?

Who?

Sadekis.

I kind of love that.

Yeah.

He's a lefty, though.

Yeah, right.

We could fix it.

We could fix it.

He claims, Sudakis claims to be an above 90% lifetime free throw shooter.

Yeah, he's very good.

I played with him.

So I want to get to, so this is, this is the segue from

I wish that Sudeikis would have been Pete Marevich in this hypothetical movie that never got made to

the legendary pickup runs that I actually always needed to ask you about, which also brings us back to Gary Shanlin.

Oh, the Sunday game?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, that was just Gary took,

again, Pablo, Gary liked me for some crazy reason.

He just thought I was funny.

I don't know if it's, you know, I'm from Florida.

He's from Arizona.

You know what I mean?

We're not

like New York, LA,

rich kid, anything like that.

So I'm just guessing.

And he ran a Sunday game at his house to feel like,

I don't know, just part of something outside of show business.

And I not only ran, I was in the game for 20 years, but became the unofficial commissioner of that game.

Okay.

So I'm hunning out a lot now.

Yeah.

Please explain for people who don't know what this is.

It's a half-court game.

It's at his house.

He had this beautiful house that is, by the way, recently just torn down that he had built.

If you ever see, there's a documentary I co-produced, didn't produce, called The Zen Diaries of Gary Shanlin.

And we get into this, how important this game was to him.

And so it started with, you know, friends, but it's also, you know, he knows everyone.

So it's all, you know, one time Bob Costas plays.

It's one time

Brad Pitt plays.

I need scouting reports on all of these names as you mentioned them.

Do you remember anything about Bob Costas and or Brad Pitt?

I remember Bob Costas because he was on my team.

It was three on three, three on three.

He would play like this.

Yeah, half court.

No threes, no three-pointers.

And

I

Costas was good, but he was always trying to make me go down to post-up because I am 6'2, which makes sense.

You're running a high-low.

He wanted me to run a high-low.

And I don't have my

here's my motto when it comes to basketball, which is the opposite of David DeCovny's motto.

He's good things happen in the paint.

I'm bad things happen in the paint.

So

I'm like a guard, a

guard trapped in a forward spot.

Like I like to shoot from the outside, crash the boards a little bit, play defense.

I don't want to be banging down low, but that's what Costas wanted me to do.

And he kept yelling at me.

It was very frustrating.

It's like, again, he's a great guy.

I like Bob Costas eloquently yelling at you in my mind.

He was like not having it.

He was not.

I was like, why aren't you posting up?

I was like, because I can't do this.

That's why.

Because I can't do it.

Because

Adam McKay is pushing me out.

I can't do this.

If you were to like PowerRank,

who's the best player when it comes to the legendary Gary Shepherd?

David DeCovney.

Dave.

Dave played it

Prince in his freshman year.

Yes.

Played as a.

I'm not real good.

Oh!

You didn't have that against your eye, did you?

I was trying to be really careful.

Okay, so now, you guys, tell me.

So actually, you guys.

Well, I think.

No hesitation.

Of the celebrities.

David DeCovney.

Yeah, he had an outside shot.

Everything.

Outside, inside, and hands.

You know, people are just good around the rim.

You could do either hand.

had really nice touch inside, good pump fakes,

just friendly.

Was this X-Files era?

Yeah,

yeah.

So, is this how you became?

I mean, again, by the way, in the role you were literally born to play, Wayne Fetterman at one point finally

got to be

Wayne Fetterman.

You can answer your phone.

Me?

Yeah.

I didn't want to be rude.

So who the hell is this guy?

Hello?

This is Wayne Fetterman.

He's an old mine from college.

He's a writer out in Hollywood now, and he's working on an FBI-based movie.

He's asked me to give him access.

Screenwriter?

It's actually a writer-slash-producer.

That's actually just a hindrance-slash-pain in the neck.

AJ Mulder, I don't want to eat your lunch.

I'm just here for some procedural flavor, just a taste.

The premise of that is that you are shadowing, yes, to Mulder and Scully.

Right.

And Gary was in the episode.

And Shanling plays Fox Mulder slash Dave DuCovney.

Which is as mad at the adaptation.

It was as mad as you can get.

But for that role,

did that come out of the pickup game?

It was right before the pickup game.

DuCovney knew me from stand-up because he's a stand-up

junkie, whatever.

And so he knew my act and stuff like that, and then wrote the part with me in mind.

He wrote and directed that episode.

As Wayne Fetterman, the character name.

And this is a little, he wrote it, faxed it to me, literally with the roly paper.

Do you have any idea what I'm talking about?

We did an episode dedicated to the fax machine, actually.

Oh, okay.

Because of the Michael Jordan, I'm back fax.

Oh, okay.

You're among, this is a home game for you at this point.

Okay.

We're getting everything you're putting down.

Okay.

So

he faxed it to me and he was like, what do you think?

Is this something you'd like to do?

And of course, like, I auditioned for things.

Yes, it's something I would like to do.

What kind of question is that?

Yes, be on the X-Files.

Yeah, that is something I'd like to do.

But then he goes, I'm going to, you know, obviously I'm going to change the name.

I just wanted your voice in my head when I was writing it to get the rhythm of it.

I was like,

I'm going to pitch that you don't change the name of it because it's already about some, you know, a thing within a thing, as you said before.

And he was like, man, that's a good idea.

You sure you don't have a problem with that?

I go, no.

And he's like, well, it is kind of like a, again,

a craven guy who insinuates himself into lots of rooms in which he is not welcome and sort of puts his self-interest above everybody else's.

But that, yes, sir.

Yes.

At the risk of being insulting,

did you need to audition?

I did.

Not for David, but for Chris Carter, I think is the guy.

Please double check that.

Room, get to work.

I think that.

Chris Carter is the.

okay, yeah, okay.

Thank you, thank you behind the scenes.

Thank you.

So I went in, and there were

other Wayne Fetterman types in the room.

And I said to myself,

if I can't get the role of Wayne Fetterman, this might be time to reconsider.

Can I ask you a question?

I know we're winding up, but like, I thought your,

this show was just about like, oh, what happened with the Lindbergh baby?

We're going to find out.

Oh, what?

Kind of.

Yeah.

Kind of.

It's like, so why am I on this show?

I think that.

Wayne wants to find out.

I think that Wayne Fetterman has asked a question that everybody in our audience already has answered.

Oh, okay, which is.

Which is that Wayne Fetterman.

What I found out today is that Wayne Fetterman has lived a life that can only be described as

that of a guy who climbed into the television, onto the screen,

in a way that I'm not even sure Wayne Fetterman appreciates, frankly.

That's correct.

That's correct.

It doesn't seem like you're as excited about you as I am.

It's like, oh, I never got on everybody loves Raymond.

Like, that's kind of...

That's.

You want everybody to love Wayne Fetterman, and you are counting the misfuels

of all the mix.

Maybe, maybe.

I think of it more of not everyone will love Wayne Fetterman, but just like I want to be like a great utility guy that can always be counted on.

Well, I have good news for you.

Yes.

You're a professor at University of Southern California.

Yeah.

And you teach this class.

And

I went on the website, ratemyprofessors.com.

And I'm proud to report that Wayne Fetterman gets five stars across the board.

Quote, super funny guy and amusing class.

Very chill.

And the easiest A ever.

Final was literally graded off of completion.

Yeah.

They had to do a project before the final.

So just.

If you show up to class and do the assignments, you will get an A.

Is that an insult?

It's a separate review.

Here's another one.

If you need a Gen Ed A, look no further.

And here's the quote, Wayne, that I want to leave you with, because you said that you don't want everybody to love Professor Wayne Fetterman.

Did I say that?

Quote,

we all love Mr.

Fetterman.

Take his class.

Yeah, this is not helping, by the way.

None of this, this run, this final, this

flurry, this flurry.

This ta-da, this

is not waving a top hat in the air as I recite these screenshots.

None of that is making me feel better, so I appreciate it.

Well, I can't win them all.

No, no, thank you for trying.

Thank you for trying, right?

Just you gotta throw it out there.

Wayne Fetterman, thank you for visiting.

Fetterman and Out.

Well played.

This has been Pablo Torre finds out a Metalark media production.

And I'll talk to you next time.

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