Vincent Zhou on How to Make Your Gold Medal Dreams a Reality | 588

Coming up next on Passion Struck.

I just remember the feeling of stepping on the ice and not knowing what I was doing there.

And that's a really scary feeling because when you've been passion struck your whole life and all of a sudden you step into the familiar arena, but you feel nothing.

You feel nothing.

It's terrifying.

It feels like you question everything.

You don't know what's happening.

You don't know why it's happening.

You realize it's probably up here, but you start trying to find physical reasons to turn it around because that's something you can tangibly change in the moment.

But at the end of the day, that's the wrong reason.

So you end up seeding more doubt and more doubt into your mind.

And it's just a negative spiral.

Welcome to Passion Struck.

Hi, I'm your host, John R.

Miles, and on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you.

Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself.

If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays.

We have long form interviews the rest of the week with guests ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes.

Now, let's go out there and become Passion Struck.

Hey, Passion Struck fam.

Welcome to episode 588.

Whether you're a long-time listener or joining us for the first time, I am so ecstatic you're here.

You've turned into a movement dedicated to unlocking your potential, living with intention, and making what truly matters matter most.

Before we dive in, let's take a moment to reflect on the powerful conversations from earlier this week.

On Tuesday, I sat down with Nir Ayal to discuss how we can break free from distractions.

and master the art of deep focus.

Then, on Thursday, Anne-Marie Anderson joined me to explore the intersection intersection of storytelling, leadership, and performance, and how we can show up more powerfully in every area of our life.

If you've missed either of these, I highly recommend going back to listen.

They're packed with insights that will help you elevate your mindset and reclaim your time.

And let me ask you this.

How do you redefine success when the world sees you as a champion?

What happens when you've reached the pinnacle of your sport, yet still face adversity, setbacks, and personal transformation and how do you take all of those experiences and use them to shape the next generation that's exactly what we're diving into today with olympic gold medalist and figure skating trailblazer vincent joe vincent's story is extraordinary he made history as the first skater to land a quadruple lutz at the olympics became a two-time world bronze medalist and helped team usa secure gold in the 2022 winter games but his journey hasn't been without struggle from battling injuries and mental health challenges to having to make the painful decision to withdraw from his Olympic event due to COVID-19.

In today's conversation, we explore the mindset of a champion and what it takes to perform under pressure, his fight for clean sport, and the long road for finally receiving his Olympic gold medal.

We go into how Vincent balances life as an elite athlete and his academic journey at Brown University.

And lastly, we go into his passion for mentorship and how he hopes to shape the future of figure skating.

And speaking of mentorship, we're also joined by Kirk Spahn, founder of the Institute for Civic Leadership, known as ICL, a nonprofit dedicated to empowering the next generation of leaders.

ICL has worked with world-class athletes, changemakers, and icons, from Novak Yokovich and Kerry Walsh Jennings, to Bill Clinton and Alicia Keys to instill values of resilience, service, and personal growth in young people.

Kirk joins us in the final segment to discuss how Vincent and other champion mentors are using their experiences to inspire and elevate the next generation.

This episode is a masterclass in resilience reinvention and what it truly means to lead with purpose.

Vincent's story reminds us that success isn't just about what you achieve, it's about the impact you leave behind.

And for those of you who want to dive deeper, check out our episode starter packs at Spotify or PassionStruck.com slash starter packs.

With over 580 episodes, we've curated playlists to help you find the inspiration that resonates most with you.

And don't forget to subscribe to my Live Intentionally newsletter at passionstruck.com for exclusive insights, challenges, actionable strategies, and behind-the-scenes content.

Now, let's dive into this powerful conversation with the one and only Vincent Joe.

Thank you for choosing Passion Struck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life.

Now, let that journey begin.

I am so honored today to have Vincent Joe on Passion Struck.

Welcome, Vincent.

Hey, John, thanks so much for having me and pleased to be on this podcast.

Can't wait to have a great conversation, talk about what drives us.

And hopefully, we'll have some interesting conversation that will be really useful to everyone listening.

Well, thank you so much.

And it's such an honor to have you here today.

And I think maybe for our audience,

the best beginning point is often the starting line.

So maybe we should just start there.

And what drew you to the ice when you were

three, four, five years old?

Oh,

I was a really competitive kid.

I had to win everything.

If you put me at the starting line of a race, I would cry if I didn't reach the finish line first.

If you put me on a soccer field, I would try my dang hardest to score all the goals against the boys who were twice as old and twice as large as me.

Put me on the ice, I'm going to try and skate the fastest.

I had a lot of energy.

My parents couldn't contain me at home.

I was bouncing off the walls.

So they put me into a lot of sports and figure skating happened to be one of them.

That stuck with me a long time.

And I sure am glad it did.

But the first exposure was actually through a birthday party.

I had a lot of fun at the local ice rink, outdoor ice rink.

There was this bubble machine that would blow bubbles.

It was all whimsical, and there'd be jolly music playing.

And I just remember racing with my friend Alper from elementary school and trying so hard to win.

Next thing, my mom sent me up for group lessons, and off I went.

Ice skating has been a passion of mine since as long as I can remember.

Similar to you, I grew up not on the West Coast, but in the mid in the mid-portion of the country.

Part of that was in Rochester, New York, and then Cleveland, and then Chicago, and then Pennsylvania.

So always cold weather climates where we could skate.

And I remember some of my favorite moments were skating on ponds when I lived in Pennsylvania during the winter months.

And it was so fun just going out there with my friends.

We didn't do as much figure skating.

We were always out there trying to play hockey with each other.

But when I think about figure skating, I just don't even know how you guys do it.

It's such a

different type of sport because to me, to do some of the jumps you have to do, there's just this innate knowing that you're going to wipe out a whole bunch of times before you get that right.

Well, every jump lands backwards.

So you learn that very early on.

If you land forward, there's a huge toe pick there that typically tends to

stop your motion if you land on it.

Landing forward would probably result in some really unfortunate accidents.

So we learn very on usually the hard way not to land forwards

well i understand when you were around eight your parents gave you the choice between soccer and skating what made you commit to figure skating i still can't come up with the perfect answer to that question but what i do know is that from the start figure skating felt like it had a very tangible learning curve that kept me motivated.

It kept me motivated and kept me reaching for the next big thing.

When I was eight years old, I was still doing a couple other activities.

I was playing piano, I was playing soccer, and I was swimming.

And swimming, I didn't spend enough time on it.

So it didn't occupy as much headspace.

And I think I was able to dismiss it more easily.

Soccer, I did spend quite a bit of time on, but I was just too small in size compared to the other boys in my league, and I couldn't keep up with them.

I couldn't run as fast.

No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't out-jostle them on the field.

I was good at scoring goals because I had innate grit,

but soccer didn't end up being the channel through which that grit manifested.

That ended up being skating because from a young age, skating requires long early hours and lots of dedication.

And I think that just cemented it from very early on.

So when my mom sat me down in the office to ask me the question of which one do you want to choose, she basically said, Vincent, you're starting middle school.

You won't have time anymore to do all these things.

You have to pick one.

And eight-year-old me was sitting in my office in a big office chair, like tiny, I was just spinning around and around.

And my mom asked me the question, and I stopped, sat straight up, and said, My heart is with skating.

And from that moment on, we just went all out.

And I remember as I was doing research on you that you used to spend hours and hours watching skaters' videotapes and trying to understand how they were doing their programs.

Were there certain skaters that you emulated and wanted to be like when you were that age?

Oh, absolutely.

I watched pretty much every single...

every single video of skating I could get my hands on.

If you showed me a clip of someone doing a jump, I could probably tell you the exact, I could tell you the skater, the competition, the program, the music name, the score they got for the program.

I could probably tell you everything.

I think my memory is a little faded now from all of that, but I had a lot of inspirations.

The biggest ones were probably Brian Boitano, 1988 Olympic champion.

There was the infamous battle of the Brians at that Olympics.

Also, Evan Lysicek, 2010 Olympic champion.

Patrick Chan, Chan, who was multiple time world champion, first skater to break 300 points in a domestic competition.

Incredible skater.

Yuzuru Hanyu,

who it's funny because a lot of these skaters I grew up idolizing.

And then a couple years later, before I knew it, I was competing on the same sheet of ice as them against them.

And that's...

such an incredible feeling.

It's almost surreal.

It's wow.

Like we made that happen.

Like those people were untouchable at one point.

It's got to be similar to Patrick Mahomes playing in the Super Bowl against the quarterback he idolized, Tom Brady.

Similar to you having to compete against these people you idolized.

Did you find that was difficult?

Was there a mental block that was in your head?

Or did you go into these events knowing that you could beat them?

That's such a great question.

I think that the later on it became in my skating career, the more I realized I had to start coming into my own image as a skater.

It's a wonderful thing when you're young, ambitious, and have a long way to go to have idols and try to emulate them.

But as you mature along your athletic career, you need to develop your own style because you don't want to be known as like

person number two.

You want to be known as your name number one.

And so I started to realize like like I should stop trying to necessarily emulate them move for move, style for style, but there's still great qualities in their skating that I can draw inspiration from.

And of course, their character, their image, them as a person, there's still so much to respect and revere there.

But in terms of, in terms of having like a technique or skating like style kind of idol, I think that kind of fades as your career goes on.

Yeah.

I find it really interesting that you bring all that

up because it's not just the figure skating world.

I remember when I got in the podcasting space, before I decided to do it, I had done this intense research on different podcast hosts similar to the research you were doing on all these skaters.

And I remember when I first started the show, I was emulating a lot of the people who I had studied.

And I realized early on that one of the things about the podcast world, similar to anything, is people don't come to the show necessarily because I have Vincent Joe on the show, although I will probably get more just because of who you are, but they come because of who the host is.

And if you're not being yourself,

you're not going to have the audience find you.

So it's a very similar thing.

And there's a reason they say you're standing on the shoulders of giants and not like

occupying the same space as a giant and trying to stretch upwards to them, if the metaphor makes sense.

One thing I know in your sport is that it's something that you have to travel a lot for.

And there's also a ton of sacrifice of having to get up way early in the morning or whenever you can get out ice time.

So it's one of those sports that puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the parents.

to support their children who are in it.

Because of that, were there moments where you felt pressure to succeed because of the sacrifices your parents were making?

Absolutely.

And I think this is larger than just parents, figure skating parents that have to do things for their kids.

I think it part of it is also cultural, where it's a lot of immigrant parents who come to the U.S.

with nothing but the clothes on their backs, just like my parents did in 1992.

They pass on this idea to their kids that we gave up everything

to give you a chance at success in this new land.

And got to make something out of that.

You got to stay humble and work really hard and try to make something out of this life we gave you.

There's always been that element of sacrifice and respect for that sacrifice in the background.

But at the same time,

and at the same time, it's also true that figure skating demands a massive sacrifice.

And

when I was eight years old and I said my heart is with skating, my mom quit her job.

She quit her career.

She was a software engineer in the Bay Area, had multiple software patents, very hard worker, very good at what she did.

And she quit her career to support my skating.

The craziest thing to me is when it happened,

like when she did it, I wasn't even good at skating yet.

All that was there for her to work off of was, I mentioned I had having that grit, that competitiveness.

That was it.

That was it.

I had nothing to show for it yet.

And my mom took that and always believed in me.

She always believed in me.

And there were many difficult moments together.

Many times we very nearly gave up.

Many times we did give up.

Many times where I saw that her belief began to waver.

And it's just been a crazy journey, but it started with my mom believing in me.

If she hadn't made that sacrifice to leave her career so that i could move away from home to train 400 miles away in an entirely new world just to sacrifice everything for a sliver of a dream i wouldn't be here talking to you today it's insane

the thing the thing well i'm glad you brought that all up because skating is more than just competition and the skating community is really a family and this year

that family suffered an unimaginable loss with the the tragic plane crash that took over 28 skaters, coaches, and family members traveling to Washington, D.C.

And it hit me personally because I also lost a friend and Naval Academy classmate in that accident.

When something like that happened, Vincent, how does the skating world come together?

And what do you think about carrying forward the legacy of those we've lost?

It's devastating.

Skating is a small world.

Skating is a small world.

And those kids were the future.

I've been on the ice with a few of them.

I'm very close with some of their best friends, very close with

some of their parents.

After the news broke, I

was reading up on them and I saw that some of them

I'm not trying to make this all about me by any means, but I saw that some of them followed me on social media and that completely broke my heart because I know what it's like to be in their shoes, to be young and ambitious, to look up to people, to dream of making the Olympic team, to dream of being like them one day.

And in a moment, all of that is gone and there's nothing you can do about it.

It almost doesn't feel real.

That just broke my heart.

I remember the parents of Maxime Nomov, Evgenia and Vadim,

they were so kind, so supportive when we competed together.

They were so sweet.

And I'm close with, I'm close with a couple of Maxim's best friends and spoken to them a little.

And it's just heartbreaking, man.

So how do you, yeah, it is so heartbreaking.

And how do you think that changes

the intermediate novice and junior levels right now going forward in the United States world of skating?

Well, it's interesting because you always see the impacts of things that happen at the top level trickling down inspiring younger skaters and then a few years later you see the younger skater coming up and it was like wow that's crazy i knew those names from years ago when they were still developing and i knew they were good who knew they would be this good i've experienced that feeling many times over and it it just sucks knowing that now there's just a gap there.

They were coming back from the developmental camp

at the U.S.

Figure Skating Championships, and that camp is one of the most exciting things for people on the developmental team of their lives.

I was just talking to some people from U.S.

Figure Skating earlier.

I remember my first time at my own developmental camps when I was still up and coming.

That was like

honestly, almost even more exciting than going to the Olympics for the first time.

It just represented like everything that I'd ever dreamed of.

And that's where these kids were at.

That's where these kids were at.

And the loss is just, it's just shaken us so deeply.

But we have come together, the whole community, everyone has coalesced very quickly too.

And the world's World Figure Skating Championships are going to be in Boston in about two weeks from now, less than two weeks from now.

And we're going to come together again there to remember them and everyone else who was on the flight.

I would love to hear about how you were impacted too.

I understand you had a friend on board as well.

Yeah, well, thank you for sharing all that.

Yeah, my friend, his name was Brian Ellis.

And when we were at the Academy, he was the backup quarterback and then became the starting quarterback and had not even been into that position very long when he had kind of a career-ending injury.

I remember him walking around for a while with his mouth taped shut as a result of some of the injuries he sustained.

But he went went on to become a marine and ironically a marine corps helicopter pilot

and had gotten out of the service and was working for one of the big four consulting firms and happened to be on his way back from a work project he was on when he was impacted as well and i i know For us as a class and for many of his especially football teammates, it was especially hard because he had been one of those guys who had always been a major support to his teammates and had uplifted them.

And so I think similar to you, it was just such a shock to hear of his passing and of the loss and the void that it now brings to his friends and his immediate family.

I can definitely relate to that.

Even in individual sports, non-team-based sports, the community you build is so strong because everyone faces challenges together and that unites you.

It unites the way you think about things the way you approach challenges it builds respect for each other's character so

um i'm sure he was a man of incredible character and integrity and i'm sorry for your loss thank you

well i want to go back to your journey and

you being these kids age

um because

You talked about earlier your mom gave up everything and at that time you weren't very good, But in just a few short years, you won titles at the intermediate, novice, and junior levels, becoming the youngest junior champion ever.

What do you think gave you an edge so early on in your career?

And was there any type of defining moment where you felt like you truly stepped into an elite level of skating?

I think that environment is so important.

You can have all the right ingredients in a person to build greatness, but if they're in the wrong environment, it's never going to catalyze.

The chemical reaction is never going to take off.

You got to have the right environment.

And I think that for me, moving to Southern California, being able to train under a world-class coach, switching from physical school to online school, basically allowing me to dedicate ample time and resources.

and allowing my life to start converging around maximizing my performance on the ice every day, I think that's all it took because the rest of the baseline ingredients were already there: grit, curiosity, willingness to experiment, willingness to learn, willingness to go at it over and over again.

My coach didn't have to tell me to work harder.

She had to tell me to stop.

I remember getting yelled at so many times because I was doing too much and she was afraid that I would hurt myself, not only from doing too many reps of things that I already knew how to do, do but also from trying new stuff harder stuff actually i have a funny story about that later on in my career when in the middle around the middle of my career when i was learning quadruple jumps which are jumps with four rotations in the air

at the time there were only two other people in the world doing a quadruple lots and i knew i had it in me to try it to do it successfully i wanted to prove my theory correct but i know that i knew that my coach would probably disapprove.

So I waited until one afternoon when she was gone golfing.

And then I tried it on an afternoon session and I landed it on my third try.

And for reference, it takes people years to learn a single axle, which is one and a half rotations.

It takes, it usually takes years,

even I would say months for even the most talented skaters to learn triples.

So landing the quadruple lots on my third try on the first day

was a testament to like how I scientifically approached, how I scientifically approached my jumps.

And that was like an exclamation mark on my belief, my belief that all this sacrifice, all this passion, it was going to pay off.

I knew it was going to pay off.

I knew it was going to turn into something great.

And I was determined to make that happen.

Well, I want to go there in a couple of moments and explore more.

about that mindset.

But since we were just talking about the quad lutz,

you made history at the 2018 Olympics as the first skater to ever land a quad lutz in Olympic competition.

And just to give the listeners some perspective in case they don't know your background, my understanding was at that Olympics, you were the youngest member of the U.S.

team, as I understand it.

At the time, were you aware of how historic that moment was?

Well, this is how I recount it, right?

The only reason I'm the first one to land a quad luts in Olympic history and not someone else is because my starting order was earlier, because my world ranking was lower, because that was actually my first year competing as a senior internationally.

So I hadn't accumulated world ranking points yet.

That moved my starting position earlier than other skaters in the competition who are also doing the quad lots and also did it successfully in the short program.

I think it's just, we call it luck or whatever, that I ended up taking that title but i think the true story of the quad luts has to go back a few years when i and a couple others around the world were actually starting to try it because you see at the time people didn't really think quad luts was a thing it was like

i don't know it's it's like humans have always had the capability of innovating certain things earlier in time it's just that nobody was really aware of it so they didn't do it but they had they technically had the ability to right?

That's how I see it.

And that doesn't make it any less impressive, because if anything, I think overcoming a mental barrier is even more difficult than overcoming a physical barrier.

So for me, I'd always had this idea that LUTS was like the cool jump.

It was the cool jump to do.

And basically in skating, there's six types of jumps.

And the axle is a bit of a special case.

So we'll rule that out for now.

Excluding the axle, the LUTS is the hardest jump, the highest scoring jump.

So I always had a special thing for a LUTS.

I used to do it hundreds of times as a kid to the point where I got better at triple LUTSs than any other triple.

And before I had learned my quadruple LUTS, I learned a couple of other quadruples.

So I was like, if I can do those other quadruples and my LUTS is better than those jumps, then I should be able to theoretically do a quad LUTS even more easily than my other quads.

So

that's what I was saying earlier about wanting to test my theory, but not really being allowed to because it was too out of the box.

So like I said, I waited until my coach was gone golfing and then I tried it and I was right.

And that was the moment when I realized before that that I was already a member of Team USA.

I was up and coming.

I knew that my career had potential to go somewhere, but that was the moment where I told myself that I could change history.

And I started trying it in competition shortly after.

I landed it at a local competition.

I landed it at first international competition in 2017.

I was throwing it on practices even a year before that at international competitions.

And then 2018 just happened to be the competition with the most spotlights on it and that special Olympic title attached to it.

That's the way I see it.

But I think it's, I think it that kind of

that mindset of not caring what other people think is impossible

has taken me really far and hopefully will continue to, because it's a very applicable mindset to many things, not just

well, I want to go into mindset just a little bit more here, because

as you talked about earlier in the interview, figure skating is notorious for its intense training demands, the amount of time that you're on the ice.

how you have to learn to push balancing your limits with protecting your body.

But some

these

techniques that you're doing, you're constantly trying to push the limits because that's what everyone in the sport is trying to do is to get technically sharper and sharper.

When you think back upon it, like how did your mind go there knowing that some of these things are going to be dangerous, that some of these things haven't been done before?

What gave you that

wherewithal to say to yourself that I can do this.

It's always just been this willingness to experiment.

It's hard to do it justice in words, but I can see it just even by looking at other skaters.

The reigning world champion, Ilya Malinin, I saw that willingness to experiment in him years ago, years ago.

And now he was the first person to ever land a quad axle.

Now he's doing things that even I could only dream of.

Part of me is like almost smug in a way because I'm like, I saw that coming years ago.

Like I told you.

It's the same with Yuzuru Hanyu, who's 2014 and 2018 Olympic champion, one of the most legendary figure skaters in history.

Back in 2012, 2013, when I saw him break out onto the junior stage for the first time, I knew he had something special because I could see, he wore it on his sleeve.

I could see his grit.

in the way that he got up from his falls.

I was like, that guy has something special.

And I looked up to him very early on.

I knew he had something special.

And then he went on to become one of the greatest of all time.

I can't really describe it perfectly, but I can sense it.

It's just like this unspoken way of approaching things that shows that you don't believe in the impossible.

I want to talk to you about unforeseen events.

So

They have played a major role in your career for a long time.

At 12, you had knee surgery that kept you out for two seasons.

But when I think about myself and the emotional roller coaster, it would havoc on me.

Injuries like that, when you're young, you have time to recover from.

But in the 2022 Olympics,

you were faced with a different type of situation.

These were supposed to be the Olympics you broke out.

These were likely going to be that time when you had a chance to get a gold, silver, or bronze from an individual standpoint.

And out of nowhere, the day before you're supposed to perform, you come down with COVID and had to withdraw from that event.

I can't even imagine it.

I watched your video and saw the emotion you were trying to process.

For someone who's listening and I just want to take him to that situation because here you have trained up to that point your entire life for that moment.

And then in an instant, it's taken away from you.

What was the hardest part of that experience?

Was it missing your shot

or was it more feeling like the circumstances were out of your control?

I think it was not having the opportunity to even try, not having the opportunity to even try.

Yeah.

After it happened, I felt almost like someone I loved had died, something that always been with me my my whole life, the singular thing that drove me for 21 years

was the idea that I might stand on an Olympic podium one day.

And the day before I had the chance to make it happen,

after years of dedicating my entire life to preparing for that one moment, it was just taken out of my hands.

And that was like losing a longtime companion or a loved one almost.

I was almost entered like a grieving process after.

Of course, the first bit was just like disbelief and trying to adjust.

I remember, so

it was the night before the short program that I got the news.

And the same night sent me off to isolation in some hotel 45 minutes away from the village.

And I got into this room and my whole body and my mind was just like

screaming at at me, like, you're not supposed to be here.

You're not supposed to be here.

It's like mind-body disconnect almost.

And I still had, I still had my alarm set for 3.40 a.m.

the next morning because that's when I was going to wake up for the morning warm-up.

And I turned my alarm off.

I turned my alarm off.

It's one of the saddest things I've ever done.

I turned my alarm off.

And then the next morning,

with no alarm, I woke up at 3.40 a.m.

sharp.

I jolted awake.

My body was like fired up.

I was ready to do it.

I was ready to like make my dream come true.

And then I was like, and then I looked at the ceiling and I looked at the window shades and I was like, this is wrong.

I'm not where I think I am.

I'm not where I should be.

And yeah, I'll never forget that feeling.

It was just

one of the worst things I've ever felt.

Well, I'm so sorry.

I can't even imagine that position.

I have faced certain things in my life that are similar in nature, but don't compare to that

amount of emotion you would have faced at that time.

But for someone who might be listening who has prepared for something really hard and had it taken away from them in your situation, what would be your advice?

to them on how do you move past this?

I think everyone's situation is unique.

and I guess also that being said, I don't think it's fair to necessarily compare

losses.

You know what I mean?

I read a little bit about your background and the things that you've experienced and I'm absolutely sure they were just as difficult for you.

I think everyone's perspective is and relative frame of how they experience those things is equally valid.

So I wouldn't necessarily say what I went through was harder or more difficult or more emotional or anything.

But to answer your question, for people who may be going through something similar,

I would say try to have something else that drives you in the background.

When you lose all sense of direction, you need something new to keep you grounded, something new to keep your head anchored.

Because

it's like being lost at sea, and even having the tiniest light in the distance

is going to help you understand relatively where you are.

And even though you may not have the strength to start swimming at the moment, at least you'll know where you are.

At least you'll know where you are.

And I think that's really important.

Thank you so much, Vincent, for answering.

And I know those aren't easy questions for anyone to have to address.

I'm going to just let Kirk know that I know he's there.

I want to ask you one other question and then I'm going going to dive into bringing him on so he knows.

Awesome.

So, Vincent, at that same Olympics, you did get to make history, although it took you a while to get the final result that you had won a gold medal, which took two and a half years later.

Did winning that gold medal bring closure for you?

Or did it make you reflect on everything you had to endure for those two years before you received it?

It's It's a combination of everything.

Every time some update came,

I ended up mentally reliving everything all over again.

Did lots of advocacy on the situation.

I was quite outspoken about the need for justice to be served.

And I did, I wrote quite a few lengthy Instagram posts and media releases on it.

And every time I relived the journey, relived every moment.

And when it all finally came to a close, I absolutely felt like closure.

It finally felt like I could start

looking beyond what happened and trying to, trying to pivot to thinking about how can we prevent this from happening again?

How can we prevent this from happening again?

Because without proper consequences, history will repeat itself.

History will repeat itself.

And so I want to make sure that no athlete who has spent their entire lives working for even a chance at making the Olympic team or whatever team and fulfilling their dream has to have that taken away from them because of people who, because the results are decided before the competition even happens.

It's a slap in the face to clean sport.

to fair competition, to the pillars that the Olympics were founded on, sportsmanship, brotherhood, integrity, sisterhood, brotherhood, sisterhood, integrity, and all the virtues of clean sport.

Absolutely.

And I know even days before you got the medal, there were still appeals up in the air that were finally released.

So it really took you down to the final hours to even realize you were getting on a plane to Paris, as I understand it.

We didn't know we were flying out to Paris until I think the date was August 7th, and we were going to fly out.

We were going to fly out August 12th.

Hastily packed my bags and went.

It was very funny.

At the start of the internship,

I was doing a summer internship in New York at the time.

At the start of the internship in June, I had told my boss, hey, there might be a chance that I have to finish early to go to the 2024 Paris Olympics, but I don't know.

I'll keep you updated when I know.

And the whole summer, I was just waiting to tell him.

I was just waiting to tell him like the good news.

Hey, I got to leave early.

I was finally able to tell him a couple of days before.

Well, congratulations.

You achieved that gold medal that you had set your heart on for so many years.

So such an incredible and rewarding experience.

And in many ways, I think the way you got to receive it out of COVID with your parents and coaches and everyone there in front of the Eiffel Tower.

may have been worth the wait.

I think that's a great way to put it.

And also the gold medal doesn't even feel like a gold medal for the event that it came from.

It feels symbolic of the journey.

It feels like a symbolic bookend to just all the crazy things that happened.

We talked about the sacrifice that my parents made,

the injuries, the times that we gave up,

everything,

all the impossible to predict twists and turns.

It feels like just a bookend on all of that.

And I think it's almost like a feel-good

Disney movie ending or something.

Vincent, throughout your career, you've had incredible coaches and mentors like we've talked about who have helped shape you, not just as an athlete, but as a leader and a role model.

And now

you're in this position where you get to do the same for the next generation.

And I know giving back is something that's really important to you, whether it's inspiring young skaters, advocating for the clean sport like we've just been talking about, or even thinking about a long-term goal of opening your own skating school.

But this idea of mentorship and leadership is at the heart of the work that's being done by the Institute for Civic Leadership,

ICL, which has built an incredible network of champions, entrepreneurs, and changemakers who are committed to guiding this next generation.

And to expand on that, I'm going to bring on the founder of the ICL with us now.

But Kirk and Vincent, I would hope you guys could both talk a little bit about the ICL and Kirk, why you founded it and Vincent, why it's so important for you to be a part of it.

So I'll turn it over to you, Kirk.

Welcome to the show.

It's great to see you, Kirk.

Let's see.

Hey, guys.

First of all, Vincent, so great to see you to hear your journey again.

John, thanks so much for having us on.

There's so many things.

Just your podcast, right?

Passion struck.

It says a lot right there.

The ICL was really fundamentally built about teaching character and leadership to youth, a lot of it by sharing these stories.

Like Vincent really struck a chord when he spoke to all of our students and families at Orientation.

And it really has nothing to do with what sport you're competing in, what your passion is.

It's about having that passion and it's about having a purpose.

And so much of Vincent's journey was not not your typical experience, right?

It's so much about character.

And what Vincent was amazing at is relating both academics, the sort of physical, mental, emotional, academic, spiritual side of trying to achieve your best at something you're passionate about.

And it's not.

the end result, right?

It's not the gold medal.

It's a signifying what the process was and how that passion is stoked.

And then so many youth think that I like something, it should come easy.

I should just be good at it.

And yet what really these mentorship and what world champion mentors are all about is saying, actually,

here's my journey.

Here are things that I learned along the way.

But what ties in is it's not just a one track goal of trying to win that gold medal, right?

Vincent is an incredibly, for being so passionate and giving so so much time to one sport he's incredibly well-rounded when he talks about his academic pursuits and integrating math and physics into what he does like that's part the next generation doesn't really hear that and there before i founded the icl i was a tennis player and i didn't reach the heights of some of our champions and novak jokovich's and monica sellis and didn't get that medal but I understood the importance of that working hard, that building character.

And if we could instill that into the next generation,

that would really make an impact.

And then we were able to integrate it.

It took about 15 years.

And we realized that these striving athletes needed an outlet.

They needed a school.

They needed an academic environment, but really more a community environment.

Because so many times, and I think Vincent alluded to it, you feel like an outlier sometimes when you're at regular school and you're training at five in the morning and other kids don't really understand that.

So to build a community of kids that are skaters, skiers, tennis players, golfers, performers that are driven to pursue their dreams and are making sacrifices and have that, it's never really been done before on the scale that ICL is doing.

And if you think about the name, the Institute for Civic Leadership, civic is almost like

it's kind of an old school word, but if you really think about it's been left out of school, like civic responsibility, giving back to others, having an an impact in your community and that's really what the end goal is about it's not personal glory or wealth it's that journey that continues on and so i think that vincent is a perfect example of what our mentors do he's sharing his story he's available he's been through it he's relatable and then actually shows that there is a connection between academics and academic excellence with building great character and pursuing your dreams.

So he's an amazing example of that.

And Vincent, I just want to ask you a little bit about that.

Maybe through this, if you could go back and design a perfect support system for yourself as a younger skater and athlete, knowing that ICL is now

here and available, what would that look like?

First of all, thanks for the introduction and the kind words, Kirk.

I don't know if I can top what you talked about, but you built ICL and so far the results have been incredible.

I'm honored to be a part of it, honored to help in any way I can.

And you're right, absolutely.

I love being able to give back and pass on the things that I've learned and experienced to anyone who might benefit from it.

When I first heard about ICL, I looked it up and I was like, wow, this is incredible.

This looks like everything I could have wanted.

when I was a kid.

And I was looking for resources to help balance a rigorous training environment with rigorous academic needs.

And so the more I get to learn about it, the more I have respect for everyone involved.

And it's just incredible to see.

When I look at the students in ICL, I don't see students.

I just see like shadows of my younger self.

I see people who, you know, John, we already talked about this, like seeing myself in the younger generation.

I see kids who are ambitious and motivated and love what they do and are hungry.

It's like Steve Jobs' famous speech, stay hungry, stay hungry.

It's like they want to, they're curious, they want to learn, they want to take in all the sources of inspiration and information that they can.

And that's something that you can't really teach.

That's something that you just have to have, you have to embody.

And that's the sort of character that, Kirk, that you're talking about, I think.

and that carries

not just into skating, but into everything throughout academics, throughout your sport, throughout your professional pursuits.

And I think that's also how we remember the greatest of all time.

It's not just excellence in one thing, it's legacy.

Legacy is built through character and mindset and impact in multiple areas.

And I think it's just so incredible that ICL has the vision and the right people to do this for kids all over the country.

Like I said, really honored to be able to contribute in some way to the vision.

Well, it inspires, right?

We have a cycle at ICL, which is inspire, educate, impact, right?

So you have this idea that people get inspired and they're passionate, but then creating that purpose.

And we call it our six P's to take passion to purpose, but then you need the right process to follow, right?

Process is so important.

And then it's people who impact you because you can't do it alone.

There's just no way.

Even though we're talking about individual sports, tennis, skating, it is not, it is a whole group of humans that help you along the way.

in order to have the next P, which is perseverance, because nobody, as you heard Vincent's story, it's not a hockey stick.

It never is.

So the idea that when you can show that grit and resilience, ultimately, it then the last P is personalization.

And you gain that personalization through perspective.

And you can look back and say, wow, those hardships, what felt like the worst can actually mold you into becoming the best.

And

those are things that sort of normal school doesn't give you.

And to each person, a unique journey, but when you hear enough similarities, so whether it's Vincent talking or Steve Nash or Novak Djokovic,

it doesn't matter, right?

Like that growth mindset, that ability to want to be the best, what you can reach.

Bodhi Miller says it, like, he doesn't count winning World Cup races or his gold medals.

It's him pushing his body to what he can achieve.

And Vincent talked about, I'm going to get it wrong, but his, his, his marquee move, I call it like a triple Indy from back to school, like Roddy Dajerfield, but it was actually to see what your body is capable of doing that someone else might not be able to do.

Those are the things that end up in life.

It makes you an entrepreneur.

You can go into business.

You can go into service.

You can go into anything because you've laid it all out there, because you've literally put your life on the line.

And we had a bunch of tennis players when Vincent's talking doing flips and you can land on your head on the ice.

It's so incredible to hear these stories.

but that everyone takes a little piece of that.

And John, you're doing the same with the podcast, right?

Finding out passion, what drives people, what is it all about?

Kirk, as I was listening to you talk about that, it dovetailed so incredibly well with the book I released last year titled Passion Struck, but I really explore how passion, the components of grit, as Angela Duckworth has laid out, and intentionality lead to this life that I call of being passion struck, which you just did basically a great demonstration.

It's how Vincent has lived his life.

It's being so passionate about a goal that you want to achieve or a problem that you want to solve that you're willing to do whatever it takes and risk it all to get there, whether that's risking injuries, risking your opportunity to have a childhood like a normal person would have had, whatever it takes, you're willing to go for it to achieve the goals that you set out.

But I think you brought up something that's really important, and that is our value, our characters, our individuality play a huge role in doing it because it's got to be something that is innate to you and what lights you up inside or else it's not going to matter in the same way.

100%.

Thank you for sharing that.

So I wanted to ask you both this question and Kirk, I'll let you go first.

And in a world that sometimes feels increasingly individualistic,

Why do you believe mentorship and leadership through service are more important than ever?

It's a great question, which leads into, I believe that community is actually so important that while we're being driven in this world, not just in sports as individuals, but the digital world, right?

It's being more isolating.

And yet, if we utilize this the right way, I think the concept of building a community is more important than ever.

What we're trying to do at ICL is to build a global community.

So when I was younger as a tennis player, I knew the tennis players in the Northeast.

Then as I got better, oh, I met people from California.

Then when I got even better, I got to go to South America.

Vincent would probably talk about what I hear about going to the Olympics, what's so amazing that impacts people is meeting these like-minded community of incredible athletes from every country around the world.

It's such a unique thing.

And I think sometimes parents and kids get focused on that individual side, and yet.

that community aspect in sports, it's the basis of the foundation of sport, right?

It was actually building this community around activities and non-warfare, trying to build this.

And I think that we have a mantra at ICL that says, respect tradition, embrace tomorrow, right?

That how do we embrace this digital age?

Because people think online education, like, oh, that's a computer and it's a robotic and I'm just going to be isolated.

And yet we've had huge conferences in New York City that capped at 500 people.

When Vincent spoke, he spoke to nearly a thousand people And then it lives on.

You can record it.

People have watched it in classes.

So the ability to use technology to actually build community is a pretty, it's a pretty powerful tool and all about how you look at it.

Because yes, I can make the argument that in a bad way, but it's too individualized and people are focused on just them, but we're trying to open that up.

And I think as a nonprofit and a foundation, Yes, we want to support individual kids on their journeys and we provide monetary support and academic support.

But overarchingly, it's about how we build out that community that will impact them forever.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Some of the hardest times that, some of the hardest times of my life were in large part because I had no community to fall back on.

When I had knee surgery at 12 years old, I was isolated in a room.

with my leg on this stupid movement machine for a couple months, just unable to do anything unable to skate unable to walk normally unable to go up and down the stairs without sitting down on my butt

and didn't have friends to talk to didn't have family to talk to

and it was one of the most lonely experiences of my life and i only wish that i had a community like icl students do and that's again why i said i think it's so incredible that you got people with the right vision and the ability to make this happen for those kids it's invaluable to them it's invaluable to them and again so much respect for to you kirk for building this and

being able to impact these kids lives in the way that you have and will continue to

you are amazing i i feel like we're just talking it's it's what vincent said so many people were impacted because sharing those experiences kids hear oh that's how i feel and

to know that you can overcome it, to know that as you break through, that the ability to even have support from teachers, and so you probably felt it.

I certainly did in tennis, where my teachers are like, oh, why are you missing school again?

I'm like, I'm going to nationals.

Like, instead of being happy about it, it's almost like, well, you're missing class again.

Whereas at ICL, our teachers actually attend nationals.

Like they want to go watch it and share a story from last week.

We have, we had players playing in the BMP Parabelle, but a master's 1000.

So we had 17-year-old girls competing on stadium two, and then their classmates in the front row cheering them on.

And then they were playing that next week in the junior event.

And just to see that sort of pump up, like not just to your coach, your parents, but to have community around you, I think it's going to be a game changer because when we really look at what ICL is,

the mental health crisis in our youth is real and it's happening in real time.

And you hear about the anxious generation and cell phones.

And

what I've learned is there's not a silver bullet to stop it.

There's nothing, but what does prevent that is community.

I think that when you have a supportive community around you,

you get less anxious, right?

You're there

when someone's low, you're there to help.

support them.

When they're at a high, you celebrate with them.

And I think that takes away a lot of that pressure cooker environment that kids are now ingrained to feel that isolation, even in normal school.

I've been reading books and the studies are shocking about how these kids are feeling these days.

And I think that community sense and even knowing that people like Vincent, like Novak Djokovic, like Monica Sellas, like Bodhi Miller are actually there and care about them.

They're not there because they're being paid for an appearance to support something.

It's they're opening up their own stories.

they're opening up their hearts, their journeys, and listening to the kids and saying, Hey, I was there, I got you, you can get through this.

And that's a really powerful tool.

It absolutely is.

And not only have I had Olympic athletes like Vincent on the show, I've had Paralympians as well, such as Dan Kanassan has been on the show, Oksana Masters has been on the show, and just hearing what they have had to go through and to pick themselves up and to go out there and perform,

given how much pain at times they have to go through just to be able to suit up and get out there, makes you realize that anything is possible when you put your mind to it, but nothing is possible if you don't have a community that's helping you and cultivating a sense of mattering inside of you that you're seen, that you're valued, that you're appreciated, and that your voice carries weight.

And I think that's what a lot of this Gen Alpha that's coming up and also Gen Z, which Vincent and my kids are experiencing, have been missing in their lives.

So I'm so glad that's part of what you're doing with ICL as well.

Thanks.

And that is.

There's some real bigger issues, right?

You can go from micro to macro or macro to micro because we're still small and relatively unknown.

There's so many exceptional nonprofits.

You mentioned Angela Duckworth and Teaching Grit, but I always find that part of the reason we start with these high profile, whether it's athletes, dedicated kids, is that they're your easy feeder system to something bigger, because to make an impact in our education system today is very difficult, right?

It's just really.

tough to break in.

You've had billionaires try and it's complex.

Again, no silver bullet, no finger pointing at anyone.

I come from a family of educators.

I worship teachers.

Part of my goal was to make great teachers.

I always say, why are there celebrity chefs that are in the kitchen?

Why are there not celebrity teachers?

Because everyone had them.

And that's always been a passion and a purpose of mine.

But it mixes in with these mentors, right?

You'd love to see Vincent's picture next to a great math teacher who inspires them.

And we all go back to movies like Dead Poets Society.

You know, there's so many examples of that, but I think that they need to be highlighted more.

And the trade and craft of being a great teacher needs to be up there and recognized with these great athletes

because they're all impacting youth.

They're all helping to shape it.

Kirk, I want to go back to something you talked about real quickly, which is like the anxious generation and

the digital exposure that's making everyone somehow feel more lonely.

How can that be, right?

It's It's supposed to be that digital social media and digital access broadens our connections, right?

Why is this generation getting more lonely?

And I think it is this.

When I was 12, I had surgery for the first time.

I, well, the first and only time, knock on wood.

And I was shut in that room for months.

I ended up turning to a lot of different outlets to try and make contact with someone.

I just wanted to talk to someone.

And I ended up up finding online education forums and various things like that.

And a lot of those communities

ended up feeling like home for a long time because I literally had nowhere else to turn.

But the problem was with things like social media, online forums, online communities.

Yes, there may be like-minded people.

Yes, there may be people you consider your friends, even close friends.

But at the end of the day, when it's time to close your screen and turn to the real world, you will be let down over and over again because they will not be there standing in front of you.

When you're alone at night, struggling to sleep and craving some sort of

somebody to talk to,

they won't be there.

They won't be there.

It's an escape and it can feel like home for a moment.

but when you look out the window, none of it is real.

And I think ICL is is so incredible in bridging that gap because

even when you bring in speakers virtually to talk about something, it's still real to the kids.

They can open their eyes, go to practice the next morning, and what the speaker said is still real.

It's still in front of them.

And I think that's the big difference, right?

Is with a community like this,

those kids aren't going to be let down over and over again when they close, when they turn off their screens and open their eyes.

And I think that's, I think that's the right way to do this.

That's the right way to leverage digital technology and connectivity.

So I just wanted to say that real quick, because I was thinking when you were talking and I had this realization, like, yeah, that's it.

So.

No, but you're so right.

And this is a different generation and how we bridge that and give that support.

What we try to teach at the end of the day for for our students, one of my mentors, John, you probably know, is Dr.

Jim Lair and a partner, and he's sort of the original

Human Performance Institute.

But he talks about being your own coach, like how to be your own inner monologue.

That two sides, like who you are.

is so important.

And the earlier you can address those, and I always go back in my head, like the poem if, right?

If you can treat those two imposters just the same.

I feel like

you motivate yourself, but then having those outlets, those real people that you're supporting you, trying to do more project-based work, working in courses like performance psychology or leadership or the business of sport, like making you feel outside of just the ice.

You don't want one thing is, you don't need your identity to be Kirk the tennis player, Vincent the skater.

It's part of who you are, but it's not your whole.

And I think that

this community building, this generation is looking for that identity.

Who am I?

Where do I fit in?

And this, they should probably rename it's not really social media because you're not as interactive.

It's fantasy, right?

Like all these pictures you can post.

And we all, as adults, we realize how fake it is, that it's actually like the opposite.

The more people post something amazingly glamorous, it's probably not that reality.

But for kids, it shapes them.

And I think that it's important to teach what shapes you should be in here and in here and to lead with.

That's why we call ICL passion-based learning through an impact learning model, like the word impact at all levels, how you go through that, how you can see an impact is so important.

Well, thank you both so much for going through that.

And I think, Vincent, what you brought up is something that my kids are 21 and 25 right now, and it's something I hear from them all the time and how they've been growing up and what they have been longing for.

Vincent, I wanted to close with a question for you.

You have navigated a ton of transitions even in your young life from child prodigy to elite skater, from Olympian and Ivy League student to now competitor to advocating for others.

What's been the hardest transition for you?

That's the first time I've been asked that question, and it's a very difficult question because how can you compare, right?

And there's also a present bias in thinking about because the recency of the experience also determines how well you remember the intricacies of what made it difficult.

So I think one of the most difficult transitions was going from my 2019 world championships where I won my first world medal and I was on top of the world.

I was continuing my upward trajectory from the 2018 Olympics to doing a semester at Brown.

The story is that I applied to Brown to begin in 2019,

even though I wasn't planning on retiring from skating yet, because my standardized test scores were about to expire.

Jokes had removed the standardized test requirement the following year, but I didn't know that would happen.

So I applied then, and my plan was to request three years of deferral so that I could fully focus on skating through the 2022 Olympics and then start.

But Brown gave me two and a half years.

Other schools gave me three, but I liked Brown so much that I took their offer anyway.

And I knew that I just had to get this semester done the earlier, the better, because closer to the 2022 Olympics would be, would mean more disruption.

So in fall 2019, I did a semester on campus and I'd been to, I'd went to online school from the middle of fifth grade through high school graduation, with the exception of junior year.

And then after graduation, I took two more gap years to focus on the 2018 Olympics.

So I'd spent a long time away from a physical classroom environment, and I didn't have,

I wasn't so lucky as to have something like ICL around me.

So my experience was

probably very different.

I did not belong whatsoever.

I had to learn to be a beginner again, almost.

You get so used to being a master at your craft that your mind almost forgets the pathways that it takes, that it has to utilize to learn from scratch all over again.

And that's one of the challenges I faced coming into the semester at Brown.

But on top of that, I was still trying to train and compete at the same time.

So it was constantly switching, flipping the switch back and forth.

And unfortunately, Brown's athletic department was not particularly supportive of my training needs.

So I ended up trying to commute to Boston five days a week to train.

And I was going to Boston from Providence during rush hour in the morning and in rush hour in the afternoon coming back.

So normally it's a 45 minute to one hour commute.

I was spending up to two hours each way, up to four hours on the road each day, five days a week, while trying to take classes and train full time for at the top level.

So

very quickly I burnt out.

I just remember the feeling of stepping on the ice and not knowing what I was doing there.

And that's a really scary feeling because when you've been passion struck your whole life and all of a sudden you step into the familiar arena, but you feel nothing.

You feel nothing.

It's terrifying.

It's terrifying.

It feels like...

you question everything.

You don't know what's happening.

You don't know why it's happening.

You realize it's probably up up here, but you start trying to find physical reasons to turn it around because that's something you can tangibly change in the moment is like your effort or your technique or something like that.

But at the end of the day, that's the wrong reason.

So you end up seeding more doubt and more doubt into your mind.

And it's just a negative spiral.

Long story short, that semester was.

extremely difficult.

I withdrew from all my competitions.

I quit skating and I had almost convinced myself that I might as well give up on the 2022 Olympic dream and just

start my academic journey full time.

I was fully prepared to come back to tell Brown, I'm not doing the two and a half year deferral.

I'm just coming back full time the following semester.

Fortunately, Brown does a thing called Thanksgiving break.

And during Thanksgiving break, some people that I who are very dear to me

asked me to visit them up in Toronto, Canada.

And I flew out to see them, just to talk with them.

And they convinced me that I needed a fresh start.

I needed to move somewhere new.

I needed to move somewhere new after the semester ended that would give me a chance to just

start over and for the right reasons, to skate for myself.

to skate in an expectation-free environment, because they knew that if I stepped foot in an old environment, I would immediately face the same pressures and the same idea that I had to immediately return to my old self, the state that I was at before.

And they were right, being free of that was a complete game changer for me because they did convince me.

I ended up moving to Toronto after the semester ended.

And that was, I had been off the ice for months.

When I got on the ice again, I couldn't even, I could hardly do a clean triple jump.

And nationals was in two weeks.

And i didn't i wasn't even sure if i was going to compete at nationals

but i knew that olympic qualification and just in terms of your whole journey as a skater you really can't afford to be missing big competitions like that because not only does it impact world ranking it impacts your whole standing in the landscape.

That was in the back of my head.

What was in the front of my head was that grit that's always been there, that when it comes down to it, that you can't give up.

If you have the chance to try, you have to try.

You cannot let the opportunity slip away.

I've always believed in that.

And that's resulted in some of the most incredible turnarounds in my career.

And that was one of those moments because I believed that going to nationals was the right move, no matter how poorly I did.

And I was fully prepared to get.

a score that I won't even say because it's so embarrassingly low.

And then the practices happened.

And the day before the short program, I suddenly landed a clean quadruple for the first time again in months.

And then the next morning in practice, things were clicking again.

I was feeling like Vincent Joe again.

And the competition came and I don't know how, but I skated two clean programs with two quadruples and just everything that I had set out to do that didn't even seem possible just two weeks earlier and came away.

but with a medal and a result that I would not have thought possible, even a couple days before that was named to the world team.

And yeah, even though that was probably one of, ironically, that was, that was one of my lowest podium finishes at a senior competition yet in the U.S., yet it felt one of my biggest wins.

And at the end of the day, that's what I took away from it.

It was one of my biggest personal victories.

I'm ready to watch this move, by the way.

I'm ready to buy popcorn and watch this move.

I feel like we're absolutely going through.

This is, again,

why this power, right?

And this is, but this is not different from entrepreneurs, right?

You read about every company, whether it's Google, or they're three weeks away from shutting the doors, letting everyone go.

That's this life and that's that grit, that resilience that like

most people probably would have stayed at Brown and said, you know what, I'm ready to move on.

It just seems like this super daunting task.

And that's those elements.

It's those moments, right?

You just, and you did that.

And I can understand why that feels like like bigger than some of the podium other ones, because you know that where you were and where you had to get to in such a short amount of time, that internally for you, that makes all the difference.

And that's what will persevere and go on for your life.

That's amazing.

So when you talk about grit, that's grit, passion.

Those are the most important things because when everything's going smoothly, you said earlier, Kurt, it's not always going to be a hockey stick.

That's true.

When things are going smoothly, it's going to feel like it's a hockey stick things things will if you zoom in the if you zoom in the camera sometimes it's going to look like a hockey stick when it's easy well like when everything's going smoothly it's easy to be great it's easy to be passionate it's easy to have grit when everything it's expected almost right you have an expectation of yourself But the moment adversity arrives, the moment some variable changes, the moment an injury comes knocking at your door, the moment some factor out of your control changes and you got to deal deal with it, what happens?

The rough patches

are what grit and passion get you through.

Because somebody without grit and passion, they'll just turn around and head home.

So that's why it's almost a backhanded compliment when people say you're so talented, because that implies that you just had it all and you never had to deal with the rough patches.

That's so not true.

People say talent's the enemy of greatness, right?

There are a lot of talented people, but yeah.

So Def, just want to re-emphasize, I cannot overemphasize the importance of grit and passion because when things aren't looking up, when it's looking unlikely that you're going to achieve your goal or make the next target, that's what's going to get you through.

And you're going to look back and be so grateful.

that you did keep your head down and keep going.

That's what makes all the difference at the end of the day.

Well said.

Well said.

Well, Kirk, I can see why you have Vincent as a mentor, and that last bit was such a great learning segment for anyone who's watching this podcast or listening in because I think you just showed so much there, Vincent, about

sometimes it's not about where you place, it's the effort and that

going deep to take that next step that will then lead you down the path of where you long to go.

That is so important.

And to look at moments like that and appreciate them for what they are and what you accomplished.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's why people say the victories, the medals, the titles, whatever,

it's representative of the journey.

It encapsulates everything that went into it.

It's not just, I came to this competition and I did well for, I did my job for four minutes.

It's, I did my job for two decades.

That's awesome.

Well, Kirk, if someone wanted to learn more about ICL, where's the best place for them to do so?

Any families for the school side of things, if they have a youth that's interested in joining ICL Academy, it's www.iclacademy.org.

And for those that want to be involved in our foundation, it's the ICLfoundation.org.

And I really appreciate you having both of us on and letting, you know, me share alongside Vincent what we're doing.

And we're so aligned.

In fact, our, your logo, Passion Struck, our part of our logo is that as well, is to really be able to do that.

So I thank you so much, John.

And thank you, Vincent, for allowing me to be on here.

Thank you, Kirk.

And thank you, Vincent, so much for coming on.

It was an honor to have you both on the show.

Thanks.

Take care.

Vincent, see you soon.

Thanks, John.

Both of you.

Take care.

And that's a wrap.

What an incredible conversation with Vincent Joe.

His journey from a history-making Olympian to a passionate advocate for clean sport, mentorship, and personal growth is nothing short of inspiring.

Vincent's story reminds us that success isn't just about medals or external achievements.

It's about resilience, reinvention, and using our experiences to uplift others.

From navigating the highest levels of competition to balancing life as a student at Brown University, Vincent has shown us what it truly means to persevere through uncertainty and lead with purpose.

As we close out today's episode, I invite you to reflect on a few key takeaways.

How do you redefine success beyond external achievements?

What does it mean to balance ambition with well-being?

And how can you use your own experiences like Vincent is doing to inspire and uplift others?

If today's discussion resonated with you, please take a moment to leave a five-star rating in review.

It's one of the best ways to support the show and helps us bring conversations like this to even more people.

And if someone in your life could benefit from Vincent's wisdom, share this episode with them because a single conversation can spark transformation.

For all the resources we discussed, including Vincent's Insights on Mentorship and the Institute for Civil Leadership, visit the show notes at passionstruck.com.

And if you want to go even deeper, be sure to watch the video version of this episode on my John R.

Miles YouTube channel, where you'll find even more enriching conversations like this one.

While you're there, hit subscribe and join our growing community.

And if you're looking to bring these transformative insights into your organization or team, visit johnrmiles.com slash speaking to explore how we can work together to create intentional change.

On my next episode of Passion Struck, I'm joined by authors Wes Adam and Tamara Miles.

where we'll be diving into their new book titled Meaningful Work.

They make a powerful case that meaning at work drives employee well-being, high performance, and even profit.

This next conversation will be packed with powerful insights to help you operate at your best and thrive in both work and life.

So make sure you're subscribed.

One of the big misconceptions that we see all the time is that, oh, we'll make work meaningful by making it really fun.

So let's have happy hours and free snacks and kombucha on tap and a ping pong table.

And that's all going to be really meaningful.

And while those things are great and fun is good because it can help us build relationships, meaning is much deeper, right?

Meaning is really about having those relationships, that sense of belonging, understanding how the work that you do really matters, and then having growth and development opportunities and a leader who believes in you.

And remember, the fee for the show is simple.

If you found value in today's episode, share it with someone who needs to hear it.

And most importantly, take what you've learned and put it into action.

Because knowledge alone doesn't create change, but action does.

Until next time, live life passion-struck.