Planet Money complains. To learn.

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Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 all right, I was out on maternity leave for a while and I don't know, something about that time just made me view things in the world differently.

Speaker 2 I was questioning why everything is the way that it even is, contemplating the big questions. Like,

Speaker 2 why in the world do stores send me so many emails? An email a day from every store I have ever bought anything from ever. Why? Things like that, you know?

Speaker 2 So, okay, yeah, no, not the most important issues of our time, but like that little pet peeve that just like, oh, gets you every single time you open your email. I actually

Speaker 2 really need to know how bombarding us with email like this doesn't backfire on them. Like, let's get to the bottom of this.

Speaker 2 And I was certain that other people at Planet Money also had little petty annoyances that once we understand them, could maybe make us less bitter about it all.

Speaker 2 So I told everyone, come to me with your complaints, Bend to me what is annoying you in the world that I can help make sense of. And I'm just going to say, some of us really needed the catharsis.

Speaker 2 James Sneed, you have a list? Sure, yeah, okay. Like driving is terrible.

Speaker 3 There's like traffic everywhere. Nobody knows how to drive.
Everything's expensive.

Speaker 2 Nothing, nothing's cheap. Nothing's cheap.
Mary Childs.

Speaker 4 Oh, you know, I wish that we had peace on earth.

Speaker 2 We're not interested in the big ones. We want petty.
Okay, right. Sorry, sorry, sorry.
Alexi Horowitzkazi. What's your beef? You got some beef.
My beef is...

Speaker 5 Oh, I'm so sorry, sir. We don't do free refills.
And then you have to buy an entire another like three to six dollar cup of coffee.

Speaker 2 Outrageous. Alex Goldmark, Planet Money's boss boss.

Speaker 6 Yeah, it was about my microwave.

Speaker 2 Okay. Okay.

Speaker 6 The short version is my microwave broke. I'm now mad at like all appliance designers.

Speaker 6 I am sad for skilled labor in the U.S. Like this took me on a journey.

Speaker 2 I think I haven't gotten a single thing fixed since like 1999. Like I think I just go like buy a new product.

Speaker 6 Okay, well here's what I'm thinking. I don't want to live in that world.
I want to live in a world where we can like fix.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 Hello and welcome to Planet Money Complaining. I'm Sarah Gonzalez and we are complaining for the sake of learning.
We can't tackle world peace, but there was a theme to some of our complaints.

Speaker 2 We are annoyed consumers. So we are going to try to understand the other side: the annoyers.
Today on the show, why appliance companies maybe don't want us to repair things?

Speaker 2 The very sad thing about satisfaction, like customer satisfaction that could keep cafes from giving you that little top-off, and the bane of my existence: 70% off-sale email.

Speaker 2 Why do stores keep sending them?

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Speaker 2 So, um,

Speaker 2 can I just...

Speaker 2 Can I like vent to you for a little bit? Yes. I know I just met you.

Speaker 2 I called up cynthia price to give her my genius idea that stores should send less emails because cynthia works with stores that send these emails okay so i i get an email a day from

Speaker 2 it seems like every store i have ever interacted with ever in any way shape or form and i feel like like something's not working like what could these brands be thinking like it they are conditioning me to not open their emails ever because it's too many emails.

Speaker 2 They're conditioning me to just click, click, click, click, click, delete. And also they are kind of making me hate them a little bit.

Speaker 7 Can I ask you some questions? I'm just curious. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Cynthia is an email marketing expert at an email marketing company called Litmus. And for some reason, Cynthia loves getting store emails.

Speaker 7 It's a browsing opportunity for me. It's a break from my day.

Speaker 2 I will say I do enjoy clicking and deleting. I'm an inbox zero girl.
Like, I always.

Speaker 7 I was just about to ask you if you were an inbox zero person. I mean,

Speaker 7 that is part of the difference between me and you.

Speaker 2 If you, like me, think that email has gotten out of control, we are right. Cynthia says stores send more emails than ever.

Speaker 2 Okay, if I open my Gmail right now, it's like, Chase, massage Envy, Thrive Market, Chase, Carters, Carters, Carters, Carters.

Speaker 7 Why is Carters emailing you so much?

Speaker 2 Carters emails me four times a day every single day, Cynthia. What is that? Carter's is a kids' clothing store.

Speaker 8 Oh, wow.

Speaker 7 Yeah, that's a lot.

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 2 who

Speaker 2 buys things from an email that they get?

Speaker 7 A lot of people.

Speaker 2 Yeah, of course, they're sending emails because it works.

Speaker 2 But how? How could this possibly work? It's like a great form of marketing.

Speaker 7 It is. There are very few tactics that you can use as effectively, as immediately as email.

Speaker 2 We're out of luck, guys. Of all the forms of marketing, email has one of the highest returns on investment.
We know this because stores can usually see when we open their emails. So there's data.

Speaker 2 And here's how it all plays out. Let's say you're a store with 100,000 people on your email list and you send out an email that's like spring deals are in bloom or 70% off your winter faves now.

Speaker 2 Something like 20 to 40% of people will open that email, like see it. That doesn't mean they're actually clicking through to your store's website, though, to see any of your spring deals.

Speaker 7 On a good day, 3% of those people total are going to click on your email. That's not to mention the people that are going to buy from it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, just like 3,000 of the 100,000 people you emailed are going to click through to your store, and even fewer are actually gonna buy something. So, not that many people fight,

Speaker 2 but some do,

Speaker 2 and that's worth it. For every $1 spent on email marketing, there is a $42 to $48 return on investment for the store.
That's the average.

Speaker 8 Yep.

Speaker 7 And that's

Speaker 7 a real stat. It's a real stat.

Speaker 2 A 4,000% return on investment.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 7 I mean, it's, it's, it is incredibly effective.

Speaker 2 part of that is just that email is cheap right you're paying for someone to write an email maybe make it pretty uh but the bigger part is that email has such a high return on investment because you

Speaker 2 invited these stores into your inbox you have actually raised your hand and said yeah send me promotional emails in some way shape or form You at some point liked what they were selling or even bought something.

Speaker 2 That's how you ended up on their email list. So it's just more likely that you will buy something again.

Speaker 7 Which just is like an entirely different world to play in as a marketer than it would be if I was putting up a billboard on the highway or just trying to target everyone on Instagram who is between the ages of 20 and 25.

Speaker 7 I mean, those are way different scenarios.

Speaker 2 It's expensive to get your ad in front of people online who might not even like what you're selling.

Speaker 2 And sure, Instagram marketing is also relentless and it feels like all social media just knows everything about our wants and likes and our buying patterns.

Speaker 2 But Cynthia says, email marketing is still usually more effective because they just know that we want their content.

Speaker 2 But do we, though? No, I just signed up because when you buy something online, you have to put your email if you want the receipt. Yeah.

Speaker 7 You just wanted the transactional emails that say,

Speaker 7 where's my shipping?

Speaker 2 That's all I want for every store. All right.
Cynthia says, some brands, some stores, they do do email marketing very well. Like they have cult followings.

Speaker 2 There's a snowboarding gear company that sends out emails when there's fresh snow on the mountains targeted to your location, like the closest mountain to you with fresh snow. That seems useful.

Speaker 2 Inundating you with emails? Cynthia says, I was right. It is risky.

Speaker 7 What they're training you to do is block them out and you're going to unsubscribe because you're so annoyed by it, or you will completely learn to just completely tune them out and you won't even look at what the subject line says at all.

Speaker 7 You probably are already there.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 2 I'm there. And every couple of months, I will do like a mass unsubscribe purge, which Cynthia says is kind of like the biggest F in marketing land.
Like you had me and you blew it. You lost me.

Speaker 2 But it doesn't really matter because someone else will like it. So some stores don't really care if they lose me and maybe even damage their reputation with me.

Speaker 2 I have to wake up every single morning to 30 marketing emails just because someone else out there is gonna buy something.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 2 Who else has to get something off their chest?

Speaker 4 I know I have things to complain about, but Mary Childs. We should all be on the same time zone.

Speaker 2 Which would mean like nighttime is daytime for some people.

Speaker 4 That would mean that perhaps you and I wake up up at what is called 10 p.m. and we go to work and the sun is out and it's shining.

Speaker 2 I'm just going to squash this one right away. You don't want to go to work at 10 p.m.
and it's daylight outside.

Speaker 4 It's just called 10 p.m. What do you care what it's called? A.M.
p.m., that's just made up. You were a baby when you learned that.
It doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 I don't know. Countries of the world, consider it.

Speaker 2 And cafes of the world, consider Alexei Horowitz-Ghazi's next gripe.

Speaker 2 Basically, Alexei hates it when coffee shops charge him for refills. It just like taints the whole cozy coffee shop experience for him, makes him not want to even go back.

Speaker 2 Like, at least give him a discounted refill. He's a reasonable guy.

Speaker 5 Some places, they'll say, give me a buck.

Speaker 5 How about an extra dollar? That's pretty chill.

Speaker 2 And then it makes you want to be like, here's an extra dollar

Speaker 2 in the tip jar. You know what I mean? Exactly.

Speaker 5 We are on the same team.

Speaker 5 I feel like we're on the opposite team when they're charging me for the refill.

Speaker 2 This is just like regular coffee, not like the fancy, that's not like a mocha chuck or something. It's just like straight up, straight up, like coffee.
Black cup of coffee.

Speaker 5 No, no adulterants.

Speaker 2 Oh, oh, no sugar, no cream, no sugar, no. Nothing.
The gesture of a free little top-off when he's setting up shop at a cafe, ordering snacks, spending money would go a long way for Alexi.

Speaker 2 He says it would make him so loyal. He'd be like the best repeat customer, he thinks.

Speaker 2 So he wants to know why so many coffee shops don't see the benefits of offering customers a free refill on like a small 12-ounce cup. Can I ask you, do they make a 16-ounce cup?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I could buy the larger cup.

Speaker 2 Isn't that just like the free refill?

Speaker 5 No, look, there's a problem with that. It gets cold way too fast.

Speaker 2 It gets cold. You're totally cool.
Totally.

Speaker 5 It's just a mood thing. It's just a mood thing.
It's just the tiniest signal I get about what kind of business this is.

Speaker 2 For Alexi, it's less about the money or even what's practical. It's more about how all of this makes him feel in a coffee shop.
So I called up a sort of expert in how we experience things.

Speaker 9 I study both experiences that cost something as well as experiences that don't cost something. So I'm really interested in how paying attention to certain things gives us more or less enjoyment.

Speaker 9 So yes.

Speaker 2 Enjoyment. Kristen Diehl studies joy, technically satisfaction at the University of Southern California.
Like the joy we get out of experiences. She teaches consumer behavior, among other things.

Speaker 2 And I'm just going to say it, Kristen is very joyful.

Speaker 9 I'm generally a happy person, I think.

Speaker 9 And my advisor told me that people either study what they're good at or what they're bad at.

Speaker 2 Okay, I think this is the perfect match.

Speaker 9 I think I have some insights there. Yes.
Much more complicated question than you would think it is.

Speaker 2 I agree. First of all, Kristen says, we can blame diners for the expectation of free drinks.

Speaker 9 Right? Because they are the ones who kind of suggested to us that that's something normative.

Speaker 9 Like the norm for a diner, maybe still like I walk around with this like coffee pot that has the coffee burned on the bottom, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, diner coffee.

Speaker 9 But, you know.

Speaker 9 They also tend not to be the ones who are profit maximization entities.

Speaker 2 sorry but a coffee shop is not a diner they don't particularly want you to linger taking up seats maybe for hours with just your five dollar coffee so even if a free refill would make alexi happy the incremental benefit of him being a little bit happier with this is probably not worth their cost so even for like a little top off yeah it's just a little top up to you but times 24 7

Speaker 9 it's still an expense.

Speaker 2 Coffee shops are just going to do what makes them the most profit, right? That's why they don't do this. Our extra happiness isn't worth it.

Speaker 2 The man. So if Alexi is going to be happy in a coffee shop, he's going to need to charm the workers.

Speaker 2 Get the rogue employee that's like, I'm supposed to charge you for this, but like, I'm not going to charge you. And then you're like, yes, we're in this together.

Speaker 9 Okay, so that is actually research. And then something like that.

Speaker 2 There's research on on how satisfying good surprises actually make us.

Speaker 9 That works the first time, but then the next time he was like, okay, where's the rogue employee here?

Speaker 2 Turns out customer happiness is not as valuable as you might think it is. The problem for companies is that when they give things out for free as a surprise, we come to expect it the next time.

Speaker 2 And we are not happy if we don't get it. Yeah.
And then you're like, is Jack working today? Is Jack here? Because he's normally the guy who gives me my tea.

Speaker 2 Kristen says, there's actually a sad ending to anything that brings us satisfaction. We adapt to that and we get accustomed to that.

Speaker 2 Even if the rogue employee always reliably gave us the rogue-free refill, or even if it wasn't rogue at all, if it was company policy like Alexi wants it to be, they could do the exact same thing that made us happy last time, but we're just not as happy.

Speaker 2 That That is sad.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I think that's sad, but it's called hedonic adaptation.

Speaker 2 Hedonic adaptation or the hedonic treadmill. The theory behind this is basically that you don't just go up, up, up in happiness forever.

Speaker 2 For instance, as you make money and you can buy more and more things, your expectations also rise.

Speaker 2 This seems like a good reason for a coffee shop to not give free refills because they're like, oh, whatever. You're just going to get mad at us about something later on anyways.

Speaker 9 It definitely will

Speaker 9 give your colleague a bigger bump the first time than the fifth time. No question asked.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Okay.
I'm going to tell him just suck it up because we're just going to be dissatisfied eventually, anyway. Because we're terrible.

Speaker 2 People.

Speaker 9 On the upside, that got us out of the caves, right? If we had been happy in the caves, we wouldn't have ventured out.

Speaker 2 Yes. She did just say, on the upside, dissatisfaction is why we came out of the caves.

Speaker 2 By the way, Alexi might be onto something here because Starbucks of all coffee shops is bringing back some free refills, which might sound very exciting now, but we know the excitement will fade.

Speaker 2 After the break, why it's so hard to fix things these days?

Speaker 1 Yes!

Speaker 2 Umbrellas are the worst! A quick complaint from Kenny Malone.

Speaker 3 The umbrella is an inherently selfish thing. You build a little bubble around yourself that is going to poke other people, take up too much room, pour water on other people.

Speaker 3 An umbrella has negative consumption externalities, is how we would put this in the econ world.

Speaker 6 You use it, you benefit, I'm happy for you.

Speaker 3 But you are making my life worse when you use the umbrella. So can we just stop?

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Speaker 2 All right, Alex Goldmart, Planet Money's executive producer, his microwave broke and he got ranty and just like the perfect amount of concerned about the future of fixing things.

Speaker 6 I go to use the microwave and it just doesn't work. It doesn't turn on.
The little digital clock doesn't tell you the time. I've got one of the ones that goes over the stove.

Speaker 6 The light underneath it doesn't work, nothing. And it seems pretty, pretty obvious to me that like a fuse blew.
Like that's just the way it broke, right?

Speaker 2 Alex wants to fix the fuse himself, even though you apparently definitely should not try to do this. It can be very, very dangerous.

Speaker 2 But there's no like fuse panel on the microwave, no little door to open where he can swap it out. And he's like, oh, come on, why would you bury the fuse?

Speaker 6 So I'm being a little dramatic with my fuse panel, but it's a stand-in for why don't we design things for repair?

Speaker 6 Like a appliance that is in your house made out of lots of metals and like toxic parts.

Speaker 2 He doesn't want to throw it out.

Speaker 6 I want to try to fix it. Like it's just a thing I believe in.
And I'm so sure it's a fuse.

Speaker 2 But with no fuse panel, it's more complicated than Alex can handle. And he calls up repair people.

Speaker 6 And most of them are like, we don't repair microwaves. Like they're too small.
Like it's too little. It's not even worth it.

Speaker 2 But the manufacturer, they have their official repair people, right? So he calls them up.

Speaker 6 And they're like, cool, we will send somebody. It will be $179 for them to show up.
Then it will be $200 an hour, billed every six minutes in increments as they do the repair plus the parts.

Speaker 2 It was going to cost Alex $981 to to fix his broken microwave and just $793 to buy a new one, have someone deliver it, and install it. Where's the incentive to fix things?

Speaker 10 Sarah, there's a saying in our business: our number one competitor is the price of a new appliance.

Speaker 2 Oh, this is Stuart Cowder with the repair company Mr. Appliance.
Wait, are you

Speaker 2 Mr. Appliance?

Speaker 10 I'm Mr. Appliance, New York City.
I own the New York City franchises.

Speaker 2 Stuart has repair people driving to people's homes all over the city, and he has his own complaints about that, like expensive parking, tolls, congestion pricing, ridiculous things. Stewart, Mr.

Speaker 2 Appliance, is very proudly non-woke, as he says.

Speaker 10 Yes, very good.

Speaker 2 Very proud of his Queens, New York accent. Oh, of course.

Speaker 10 It was my nickname in college.

Speaker 2 What was your nickname in college? Queens? Queens. Oh, that is such a great nickname.

Speaker 2 And Stewart is based in Manhattan, where Alex's broken microwave was and where Alex got his decently expensive repair quote. Yeah, $200 an hour, I think, is the going rate.
Does that seem right?

Speaker 10 Seems cheap to me.

Speaker 2 Oh, Stuart asks me a bunch of questions about Alex's microwave, which I'm going to let Alex take.

Speaker 10 First of all, how old is the microwave? Five years. How much did you pay for the microwave?

Speaker 6 $400.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 10 And what brand is it? Bosch. Bosch.
All right. Knowing the brand is very important.
And the reason for that is some brands make their units easier to repair than others.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Stuart says several manufacturers make products that are not meant to be repaired at all.

Speaker 10 They make the repair difficult. They put the replacement parts in difficult spots.
They make it time-consuming, hard to get to, hard to take apart.

Speaker 10 They just, they make it difficult as opposed to other companies that make repairs very easy.

Speaker 2 This is what I'm talking about. It's like some appliances, even if you're like the handiest, handy person.

Speaker 10 Because the manufacturer doesn't want it.

Speaker 2 All right. Some manufacturers put parts in difficult to reach places because they want you to rely on them for repairs.

Speaker 2 There's actually a whole right to repair movement of people saying, We shouldn't have to rely on the manufacturer.

Speaker 2 We should have access to the tools and information we need to repair the things that we have bought. Some states have laws that give people the right to repair.

Speaker 2 But then other brands just actually make it impossible for anyone to repair. Like if the part breaks, they do not make the replacement part.
It doesn't exist. So you have no option.

Speaker 2 You have to throw the appliance out and buy a new one. If you ask Stewart, manufacturers do this because they don't really make any money when you repair things.

Speaker 2 They make money when you buy a new appliance. But it's not just that.
Sometimes brands are just making things in the cheapest way possible.

Speaker 2 Like one brand makes a part out of 100% steel when another one makes it out of 100% plastic.

Speaker 2 So it's just not meant to last that long, which on the bright side means that there are cheap appliances available. Everyone can have them.
Alex's microwave is apparently not one of those brands.

Speaker 10 No. No, Bosch is actually, their products are meant to be repaired.
And that doesn't mean it's cost-effective to repair them, but they're meant to be repaired.

Speaker 10 And that means Bosch will make parts for them for many years.

Speaker 2 Yeah, just because it's designed to be repaired does not mean that it will make sense financially to repair it. A repair person has to come to you, right?

Speaker 10 It's a very high-skilled trait. Yeah.
It takes a long time to learn it.

Speaker 10 And you're not just learning how to fix one appliance, learning how to fix all appliances.

Speaker 2 If you have to know how to fix a microwave, you have to also know how to fix a dishwasher and a washing machine, stoves, which means you need to know plumbing, electrical.

Speaker 2 There could be gas leaks, pretty heavy lifting, a refrigerator, right?

Speaker 2 And this was Alex's point at the very beginning of the show, that the high cost of repair makes him sad for the future of this skilled labor in the U.S.

Speaker 2 He wants to be able to use that labor, but when it becomes so expensive, it's like, well, yeah, just buy the other one.

Speaker 10 That's just the way of the industry.

Speaker 2 And you guys try to like, oh, let's bring down our prices, but like you're just, you're stuck. You, you can't bring them down.

Speaker 10 For us, it costs what it costs.

Speaker 10 And sometimes this is nothing you can do. The repair is more expensive than the appliance.

Speaker 10 But

Speaker 10 a lot of times the customer still repairs it because it matches the kitchen. It has custom cabinetry.

Speaker 10 The new one is different. It's a different size.
They'd have to call a carpenter.

Speaker 2 So your bread and butter is kind of like people with like a fancy modern kitchen.

Speaker 10 High-end. Yeah.
We go with the high-end appliances. If it was a $500 microwave, we wouldn't even come out.
We tell you, go buy a new one.

Speaker 2 The repair market, it's a higher-end market.

Speaker 2 By the way, Alex did not buy a new microwave. A repair person came to him and actually told him exactly what the problem was and where he could go on YouTube to fix it himself.

Speaker 2 Which again, oh, you should not do.

Speaker 10 Never.

Speaker 2 What about like if your own own microwave breaks? Would you know how to fix your own microwave?

Speaker 10 I wouldn't even try.

Speaker 2 I'm gonna tell my boss that.

Speaker 2 So those are our gripes. And didn't it feel good? Complaining, catharsis.

Speaker 2 Well, apparently recent research has shown that venting and letting it all out can actually make you more riled up, more stressed out.

Speaker 2 Venting may not actually be good unless the person you're venting to can help broaden your perspective, see the other side, which

Speaker 8 we did, right?

Speaker 2 This is a very, okay, this is, I'm gonna sound ridiculous. Erica Barris, I cannot stand little free libraries.
We have free libraries. They are actual libraries.
They are called libraries.

Speaker 2 Erica, this is a genius grievance.

Speaker 2 This episode of Planet Money was produced by the one and only James Need and edited by Marianne McCune.

Speaker 2 It was fact-checked by the amazing Sierra Juarez and engineered by James Willits with help from Jimmy Keely. Alex Goldmark is Planet Money's executive producer.

Speaker 2 Special thanks to Jamal Miller at Intuit Mailchimp. I'm Sarah Gonzalez.
This is NPR. Thanks for listening to us bent.

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