Obama Night at the DNC (feat. Julia Louis-Dreyfus)

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Get a one-time free Triple Burger when you download the app and join my rewards Minimum purchase required New members only within 14 days This week we're going all out for the Democratic National Convention Here at Crooked Media we're giving Friends of the Pod subscribers Access to a ton of behind-the-scenes content And community events Including a DNC subscriber live chat A new subscriber exclusive segment Featuring me, John, Tommy, Dan, four, count them, four back-to-back ad-free episodes of Pod Save America, recapping the biggest convention news of the night, and brand new episodes of Inside 2024 and Polar Coaster. It's going to be a hell of a week for content.
And as a bonus, we'll have a Democratic Party nominee by the end. Pretty good deal.
Get all of our

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croquet.com slash friends to sign Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
Tommy Vitor. On tonight's show, Barack and Michelle Obama rally the troops at the DNC.
The one and only Julia Louis-Dreyfus stops by to talk about why she's involved in the convention and all those veep comparisons with Kamala Harris. And our own senator, Lafonza Butler, a close friend of Kamala, talks to Lovett and Me about what the VP is really like and why she decided, like Joe Biden, to serve just one term.
She also called me pretty weird, but I really like her. Yeah, in fairness, it's because you called yourself weird first.
But anyway, so good conversation. He's our JD Vance.
Tune in. Hey, that sucks.
What are you doing to that chair, buddy? Look, you started the interview as JD Vance. You ended as Tim Walls.
Okay. So we're recording this at 11pm on Tuesday night.
Better than last night. Which is lovely.
We're doing better. Half an hour better every night.
Half an hour better every night. Who knows what happens by Thursday night.
It's just after night two of the convention. So tonight is traditionally the night when the big festive roll call happens to officially nominate the presidential and vice presidential candidates.
This year, of course, the official roll call happened virtually to make sure we didn't run afoul of the state ballot deadlines but you know what we're the party of fun now so uh democrats decided to do the ceremonial roll call anyway it was actually really cool yeah really cool part of the night uh as usual the delegates cast their vote state by state but this time they played a state-specific song with at least one surprise in-person appearance from obviously lil, Lil Jon, who's from Georgia. By tradition, the nominee's home state delegation, California, went last to put her over the top, and then there was an unexpected move.
Here's a supercut of how it all went. We are here tonight to officially nominate Kevyn Harris for president.
As Nevada's first black woman chair, I proudly deliver the Silver States 48 votes for the next president! Texas cast three votes present and 263 votes for freedom! California, we proudly cast our 482 votes for the next president, Kamala Harris. But now, a special surprise.
Live from my home state of Wisconsin, Vice President Kamala Harris. The delegates at the Democratic National Convention, well, they just completed their roll call.
And they have nominated Coach Walls and me to be the next vice president and president of the United States of America. What'd you guys think of that Milwaukee move? I think we should set the stage.
There's not just here to Milwaukee. They filled the Fiserv Forum, which is where the Republican convention was last month.
Yep. And it was a raucous crowd

and a perfect set, and they

did it live, which is a risky

maneuver. Two full stadiums.

Especially for all the issues

last night with going over, the fact

that they orchestrated the whole

thing tonight so that literally the

roll call ends and Newsom

puts her over the top in California, and

then it just cuts to her walking out on stage

with a huge crowd. It was amazing.

It was so good. The stagecraft like a lot of people had a hand on that they probably don't get a lot of credit that's amazing it was just so people like we were all watching it and we were just such earnest we were just so earnestly like excited and like just sort of that's so fucking cool don't look at me and dan you know we weren't here we were up in up in a suite.
I was sitting right here. I was.
I missed it all. You were talking with your daughter and your wife.
I was very sad. Yeah.
Oh, that's what happened. Oh, I was doing a T-Bitsy Spider with Lizzie.
I thought we were in the suite. Which is fair.
Which is totally fair. Yeah, it's a good excuse.
What did you guys think of the vibes in general before we get to the big speakers? Vibes are good. Vibes are good, right? Vibes are good.
Vibes are good. It was a good day.
We're drinking now. We're having a good time.
Vibes are good on day two. All right, let's get to the speeches.
Headliners tonight were second gentleman, Doug Emhoff and Barack and Michelle Obama. We're just going to take them in order.
Let's listen to Doug. I got Kamala's voicemail and I just started rambling.
Hey, it's Doug. I'm on my way to an early meeting.
Again, it's Doug. I remember I was trying to grab the words out of the air and just put them back in my mouth.
And for what seemed like far too many minutes, I hung up. By the way, Kamala saved that vo voicemail and she makes me listen to it on every anniversary but that's when she called me back and we talked for an hour and we laughed well you know that laugh i love that laugh so should we should we talk about why we missed Doug's speech? The live part, yeah.
So we were about to watch Doug and then our friend Ben Krause, who's in the speech writing room, he said he was going to bring us down to the convention floor. To the podium area.
To the podium area. Where you literally, I've never been down to the podium area.
You're literally standing on the podium but behind the stage that you see. It's very cool.
Yeah. Like, we watched Doug come off and greet his staff, and everyone was elated.
Elated. I think is the best word.
And then we walked down, and we were going to go out to watch the speech. And then we were walking down the hall, and we saw Barack Obama's assistant, Amos, and he just pulled us in.
We got to say hi to Obama.

How are you?

Pretty neat.

Give him a little good luck.

He needed that.

He needed the good luck from us.

Yeah, he did.

He was like, all right, get out of here.

It's so annoying,

because he did not even seem a little bit nervous.

No.

Not a hair.

It's his...

It's like his superpower.

Fifth convention?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So he was fine.

He was fine.

Doug's speech was fantastic. We watched it when we came back.
We have seen the speech. He's so charming.
fine yeah it's fine uh doug's speech was fantastic we watched it we came back we have seen the speech he's so charming yeah he's a charming guy i love how much they like it's so authentic how much they love each other i from you know when they were at uh the uh state of the union and they found each other yeah and you saw Kamala looking it up at Doug up there.

I've always loved it. I do.
I genuinely, they just love each other. There is something so relatable, and I know this from experience, as someone who knows they punched above their weight in getting married, Doug knows he got lucky and that Kamala is amazing.
And he probably wakes up every day. He's like, I can't believe Kamala Harris married me.
Even if she never became vice president. It's basically the theme of the speech.
Yeah. And it is, it's so relatable to people in the same way that Tim Walls is this archetype that's relatable to people.
Doug Emhoff is exactly like that. Everyone knows Doug Emhoff, right? They understand that relationship.
They understand who he is. And this was one of the most effective convention speeches I've seen in a very long time.
And to get all political strategic about it, we've talked a lot here about this debate over masculinity and young men and men sort of leaving the Democratic Party. And I do think between Tim Walz and Doug Emhoff, you are seeing in this campaign models of men who are just good guys and good models for men to by by the success of women yes aren't all bothered by that's what's been beautiful about Doug from the beginning that you can just see that he he loves being the plus one yeah he loves it he loves being him he's on a plus one world tour I used to be on a plus one world tour I like calling him Wall's coach.
Oh, just, again, a little behind the curtain look here. We were sitting around.
We were all talking about how, you know, like, we all had a sense of what Obama was going to say. You could sort of had a sense of what Michelle Obama might say.
We're all like, we don't really know what Doug's going to talk about. And the only preview was a message about the need to combat anti-Semitism around the world, which is a very important message, but a very different tone than what we ultimately saw.
I am so glad that what we saw was a speech about Doug explaining why he loves Kamala Harris. Oh, one other thing that Doug did that was so beautiful, really reminded me, so Bill Clinton, 1992, he said, this was when they were making fun of like Murphy Brown and single mothers, and he said, if you don't feel welcome in the Republican Party, come and be part of our family.
It was a beautiful moment. Yeah, that was very nice.
For lots of people whose families didn't look like the platonic ideal of 1950s television. It was a big deal that Bill Clinton did that and said, like, there's a lot of people that live like that and, like, deserve to feel loved.
And there was something so beautiful about Doug just unapologetically, unabashedly saying, we're a blended family. They call her Mamala.
She's an incredible stepmother. It was complicated.
He said, I got divorced. And I figured out, and Kamala took, I thought she'd be good for our family, and she was.
And that sort of direct honesty without feeling at all self-conscious, that you have to pretend to be some other version, just to, it was a recognition, by the way, of like, it's respect for people. It's respect for the the viewer, for voters that I really, really liked.
It's just like being in touch with real life, not the refracted view of politics that we have, where it's like, you have to have this perfect marriage and your life has to go a certain way. And it's just comfort in your own skin.
It's understanding like, this is what everyone knows, right? They know blended families, they know mixed race couples, they know stepkids and stepmoms. And it's like, that's just like normal stuff just presented to people.
And it's not welcome or discussed about in the Republican Party in the same way. Well, because the primary strategy of the Republican Party, particularly under Trump, has been to otherize their opponents, Democrats, right? They are weird.
They are different. Barack Obama wasn't born here.
Now we do the weird thing. Kamala Harris is, you know, the biracial thing.
Is she Indian? Is she Indian? Is she black, right? And I think a theme of tonight, we're going to talk about the Obamas as well, but from all three primetime speakers, Doug, Michelle Obama, and Barack Obama was like, hey, we're pretty normal Americans in the year 2024. This is what the country looks like.
This is what we sound like. Love our families.
Love our country. It's a really powerful message.
And it's the way people vote. They don't Google your list of policies and compare them and bust out the abacus and total up what it means for them.
They're like, I like this person. They seem like me.
They will fight for me, which Barack Obama directly says in his speech. Michelle Obama got at that too.
It's all about values and who you are and your character and how that informs your leadership. That's what people are looking for.
The speakers tonight understood the assignment. Yes.
They knew what they were supposed to do. All of their speeches were not about themselves.
Even Doug Emhoff's speech was not about himself. It was all about Kamala and their family and what she did for their family.
It's what Obama and the former first lady did. They got it and they executed on it in a very effective way.
And it's always good to see a strict scrutiny guest make it big. A guest and a guest of a guest.
That's right. Yeah.
Kamala Harris went to the strict scrutiny show. Which is like also one of the most charming things.
Yeah. Yeah.
Because no one knew. She just showed up at the strict scrutiny show, the live show in DC, sat in the front row to cheer on Doug.
She's like a guest of scrutiny. We're now three circles removed from the Kamala Harris interview we seek.
Yeah. We're going to get her.
We've had it before. We're going to have you.
She'll be back. I ran into her on an airplane once.
She came up and gave me a hug. She couldn't have been nice.
She's like a normal person. She's friendly.
She's nice. That's who she is.
Extremely normal. All right.
So after Doug, Michelle Obama took the stage. High expectations for Michelle Obama, right? Because she always gives the most incredible speeches.
She always knocks it out of the park. And, man, she fucking met them tonight.
Incredible. If not exceeded them.
Let's listen to Michelle. She understands that most of us will never be afforded the grace of failing forward.
We will never benefit from the affirmative action of generational wealth. If we bankrupt a business or choke in a crisis, we don't get a second, third or fourth chance.
If things don't go our way, we don't have the luxury of whining or cheating others to get further ahead. No.
We don't get to change the rules so we always win. If we see a mountain in front of us, we don't expect there to be an escalator waiting to take us to the top.
No. We put our heads down.

We get to work. In America, we do something.
Unfortunately, we know what comes next. We know folks are going to do everything they can to distort her truth.
My husband and I sadly know a little something about this. For years, Donald Trump did everything in his power to try to make people fear us.
See, his limited, narrow view of the world made him feel threatened by the existence of two hard-working, highly-educated, successful people who happen to be black. So, wow.
That was... I mean, that was one of the best convention speeches I've ever seen.
I mean, I think the way she tied Kamala Harris's mother and her own mother and wove their story together to talk about her values was incredible. The way she sliced Donald Trump in half and made him so small and went harder at him than almost any other speaker, but did it in language that was just less harsh and nasty, it was unbelievable.
There was also a whole section where she, where there's some very real shade thrown at annoying politicians who demand to be stroked and loved and donors who need to be called. That was very funny.
And you could felt deeply felt. Really, really interesting.
That's what I was actually thinking. We went out, we watched it from the floor, which was awesome.
And and what i what i was thinking about when i was watching the speech is she doesn't like an amazing and very difficult job of speaking both to people that barely pay attention to politics and the hyper engaged partisans and pundits and politicians and activists with a message that kind of works for both like they. Which is really incredibly impressive.
She makes it like stop checking 538 and do something. Yeah.
Which I will not do, but I will do something. But I will also check 538.
You can do both. I can do both.
Go to votesaveamerica.com. That's right.
We're actually doing a driver. That would be doing something.
75,000 volunteers to show up. We've got 40,000 now.
We need 35,000 more in the next 25 days. VotesaveAmerica.com slash 2024.
Wow, look at that one. Pretty good.
I'm saying I want 75,000 on top of the 40,000. It's not inclusive for me.
Dan, what did you think? When they go low, love it goes higher. Barack Obama is the best speaker in the Democratic Party, but the second best speaker in his family.
Yeah. I mean, it...
Which he said in his speech as well.

Yeah, it is just the way...

Like, every person who is in politics should watch all of Michelle Obama's convention speeches,

starting in 08, in every single one.

And I watched the 2021, which is one of the starkest warnings about Donald Trump,

because, if you remember, they were just videos.

They were just two-camera remarks.

And she talks like a normal person to normal people. There is no speechifying.
There is no lofty rhetoric about the founders. You're not cosplaying the Kennedys in your head when you do it.
It always sounds like if you've ever had a conversation with Michelle Obama, it sounds like this, right? When she's telling you to do something, she's asking you to do something, she's explaining something to you, it sounds like this. And it is just so effective.
And in her 2020 speech, she said, you all know I hate politics, right? So me doing this tells you how serious, I'm paraphrasing this situation is. And that's the vibe, right? She's not political.
And there was a genuine love and affection for Kamala Harris that was so powerful in there. Like that she understood her life.
She understood her experience. A kindred.
And they have become friends. They're close friends.
They both live in DC. They hang out.
It's just, it's very, I uh i thought it was just very very meaningful the way it was done i've been thinking about the reason that the way she went after donald trump was so effective like why that was and i think it's like we've heard so many lines from politicians politicians we love over the last however many years now about donald trump and some of them are like really harsh and really slam him. And I think that like her indictment of him was like the most devastating, even though it wasn't as sharp because like she told a story about him and about like what he represents versus what like Americans actually value in life.
And she did it with like a certain subtlety.

It wasn't very subtle until everyone understood

that it was like a full frontal attack.

But it's always bothered.

I have this thing where everyone who criticizes now,

like when they go low, we go high.

I think it's a misunderstanding of what that meant.

I've always thought it was a misunderstanding.

She was not saying with when they go low, we go high,

like they get down and dirty and attack. And we turn the other cheek.
And we turn the other cheek and do that. She kind of corrected it tonight.
She was like, they're really small and we have to go really big. And that's what she did in her indictment of Donald Trump.
It was much bigger than cheap applause line attacks. It was like, he does not stand for what we value as Americans.
And I thought it was like so much more powerful. There's something, I, look, Doug's speech into Michelle's speech into Barack Obama's speech were, I think, pound for pound, the three best speeches in a prime time that I've ever seen.
And I think it's because each of them started from a place of, why am I here? And what is the single most effective thing I can do? What is the speech only I could give that's the most persuasive speech I can personally give for Kamala Harris? What are the strengths I bring to achieve the goal? Which is electing Kamala Harris president. Every person on that stage tonight cares and understands how important it is to fucking win.
And what they were focused on is trying to figure out the best and most exquisite case that they can make based on who they are, their values, their experiences, their kind of place in, you know, whatever, American politics, to make that argument. And they each did that.
And it was incredibly effective. And one thing I think, like, well, it's a feeling I feel when I watch them now, post-presidency.
And I wonder if you guys feel this way, which is that they, I worked for Obama from 2004 to 2013. They endured so much racism and bullshit and just like vicious attacks, especially Michelle.
And they had to, in some sense, turn the other cheek on those attacks, or at least not directly call them out as racist when they were. For example, the birther stuff.
We never said, hey, that's racist, Donald Trump. Stop doing that.
Because we knew Barack Obama would be called an angry black man. He'd be accused of playing the race card.
It would be the OJ trial all over again. And he took a high road.
But now he's like, I don't have to do that. And she doesn't either.
And they can just be brutally honest and respond to him in the way he deserves. Donald Trump, that is.
But even now, they also knew that, like, it's not like they just had to turn the other cheap because they would be accused of playing the race card. They knew that, like, again, to Lovett's point, politically, the best thing to do to actually, like, win the election and advance the cause is to not get yourself baited into what the republicans want, which is like an argument and debate over identity and over race.
And even the way she did it tonight, when she said like, and he is, he wants to make people afraid of just two of us, of two people who just happen to like work hard and become successful and rise to a high station in life who happen to be black right who happened to be black and like just the way that was just like a perfect way it's elegant it's an elegant phrasing but she's directly calling out the racism in the attack of course but not but in a much more elegant way than i think most democrats do there is just something about the way a lot of the democrats last night went after Trump. It was very overly online.
It's like referencing something that went viral that Trump did or some controversy only known to political junkies. It's very like MSNBC, Twitter.
You didn't think the Cofefe video was good? It didn't work. Or Pots of America referential, right? And the way the Obamas did it was they talked to people about Donald Trump where you would understand the critique if you don't follow politics because that is our audience.
Right. That is the only audience that matters.
It is not to send a thrill up the leg of Democrats who are going to vote no matter what and work hard no matter what. Those Democrats were thrilled in there, let me tell you.
And she, she again the reason she's so good is that she like the the the audience in the room was like just it was crazy it was electric and no one wrote the applause better than her she fought she shut down so many silly chants and things going on she's like kept going yeah all right last but not least uh noted chicago native barack obama closed out the night uh with speech to the delegates. Let's listen.
Here's a 78-year-old billionaire who has not stopped whining about his problems since he rode down his golden escalator nine years ago.

It has been a constant stream of gripes and grievances that's actually been getting worse now that he's afraid of losing to Kamala. There's the childish nicknames, the crazy conspiracy theories, this weird obsession with crowd sizes.
It is one of the oldest tricks in politics. From a guy whose act has, let's face it, gotten pretty stale.
We do not need four more years of bluster and bumbling and chaos. We have seen that movie before, and we all know that the sequel is usually worse.
America's ready for a new chapter. America's ready for a better story.
We are ready for a President Kamala Harris. Kamala Harris won't be focused on her problems.
She'll be focused on yours. As president, she won't just cater to her own supporters and punish those who refuse to kiss the ring or bend the knee.
She'll work on behalf of every American. All right, so I should just close.
I, you know, once a staffer, always a staffer. I volunteered to help a little, look at the speech a couple times.
I mean, don't knock the three changes I made in the speech. There's one very important change.
We don't, we don't, let's not let people be high. We don't want to let...
Dan had one very important change that I just mentioned. Dan included the dick joke.
Oh, Dan did the dick joke. Wow.
That makes sense. Just so you all know, that was just in the moment.
That was just in the moment. He just put his hands on the podium.
I don't know. Maybe it wasn't.
Or maybe he knew all along that that was a dick joke and nobody else did but him. I will not comment on it.
What did you guys think of Obama's speech? What is this journalistic ethics you've adopted for one second? Journalistic ethic is just weird to be like, oh, well, I was like talking about the speech. His badge says reporter all of a sudden has gone to his fucking hate.
I've worked for this guy for a long time. I think our conflicts are well known.
Here's what I was feeling when I was watching. First of all, it was very moving, especially there's a he he talked about Michelle's mother and how much it reminded him of his grandmother.
It was very emotional. What I was thinking when I was watching the speech is, I think one of the most frustrating and dispiriting parts of the last decade has been for a lot of people voting against Trump, stopping Trump at all costs, it's obvious.
Of course, you must stop this man. Of course, this person shouldn't be in power.
And for a lot of people, it isn't obvious. It feels like it shouldn't be 50-50 and yet it is.
What I really appreciated about this speech is instead of wringing our hands and being like endlessly sort of like, why is Trump here? Why is Trump here? This was a speech about why it was obvious, why it should be obvious, right? What are the values that he doesn't uphold that if you think about it, if you're reminded of what you care about, it will become obvious. This was a speech about making it obvious to people for whom it is not, why obviously somebody like Trump shouldn't be in power, and it was an incredibly effective argument for that reason.
I agree with that, that's great. The, I think one thing I just see is being in the room, because I don't think it came through on TV, is that there was obviously like uproarious applause at times, but people, especially when he was talking about the country

and polarization and the kind of country we can be and should be,

the audience was wrapped.

They could not take their eyes off.

It was a very, very powerful place to be for that conversation.

It was like he had the audience in his hand.

Just the thing I would say about this speech is,

and this has been true of every Obama speech dating back to 2004, is that most politicians, and particularly Democrats, particularly in the Trump era, operate from the assumption that the only thing that keeps people from voting for us is ignorance. And Obama has always understood that people who may not agree with us come at that from a place of experience and knowledge.
And it is our job to persuade them. It's not just that we yell our message in their face loud enough they'll get there.
It's that they have a set of experiences in their lives that may make them feel not immediately welcome in our party. And it's our job to welcome them in.
And this was true of the first of Michelle Obama's speech. It's true of Barack Obama's.
You're starting with this place of persuasion, right? Everyone is someone we have to persuade. And if they don't agree with us, they don't agree with us on everything.
But the reason they don't agree with us is not because they're wrong or they're stupid or they don't follow the news or they're ignorant or they've been hoodwinked or whatever else. It's that something in their lives has not worked out the way they wanted or they just in their life experience don't agree with us on some things and we have to go get them and bring them in.
And that is just such a powerful force. And it's just so different than I think what we hear a lot in this era from politicians.
Yeah, I mean, honestly, it brought me back to 2004 and being on the floor of the DNC in Boston. And some of that was like, very purposeful and deliberate.
There were allusions to those lines, like conventions have always been good to, you know, a skinny guy with a funny name was the line in 2004. But it was also a patriotic story about freedom, about being an American, about things we have in common, shared hopes, shared dreams.
It was just like, it's a beautiful vision of America. And of course, like 2004, you got your policy section for Kamala and you got your tough hit on Trump.
Like there was a tough hit on Bush back then, but ultimately like it was a speech for everyone about bringing people together. It was patriotic.
Um, and it was a, you know, just like a guy who loves the country and wants you to too, and wants it to be a little bit bit better and thinks we can make it better if we try to come together again and get past the last eight to ten years basically he approaches these speeches like an organizer because he was an organizer and to dan's point when he talked about the speech he um he was saying one of the first things he thought about was towards the end when he said, like, sometimes we think that winning is all about, like, out yelling the other side or scolding people. Or, I mean, this is what your point, right? And what we really have to do is actually, like, go out and listen to people and talk to people and persuade people and give people the grace that we would give our loved ones if we don't agree with our loved ones and it's in in similar to michelle right you make political points by talking about relationships and the way that we are with people that we love and it's about values but not in the like consultant value talk like talk more about the middle class and optimism just shout just name your values right values.
I value work. Right.
Yeah. But like real actual values, like the way you go through life.
And the other thing he really wanted to do and he did in the Trump section was, and this has actually been a theme of a lot of the speakers, which is, you know, Trump has been seen and talked about as a threat to democracy. We talked about this last night, an existential threat to democracy, which we all believe he is.
But, you know, nine years into this fucking Trump era, he's also like a clown and a fool and attacking him that way. And, and Julia Louis-Dreyfus talked about this with us during our interview that you're going to hear.
It's like the way to like go after the supposed strength of a,

of an autocrat or a strong man is to just make them seem foolish because they

hate getting made fun of.

And he sort of mocked Trump and Michelle mocked Trump.

And like the,

I think mocking Trump while still acknowledging and Obama acknowledged in the

speech too,

that he can be dangerous.

Like clowns,

clowns with a lot of power can still be dangerous.

We've all seen it. Exactly.
We all get it. Right.
But, um, but you gotta, but like, and just like, and just like Nate, like the exhaustion, the exhaustion of having a person who is, wants to be a leader, who is in our lives all the time, who only fucking cares about himself, is only complaining about himself, whining all the time. And contrasting that with Kamala Harris, who cares about people, who wakes up thinking about people.
That is a powerful contrast. And it was Biden's contrast as well.
It's like a through line from the whole campaign. Yeah, there's something about what Obama is doing up there, which is he's not saying you're not wrong to be pissed or that there aren't people that you want to scold that are frustrating you.
He's saying it's not the most effective thing. And being effective is all that matters.
This was a night about being effective. The speeches themselves were models of what it means to be effective.
And what he is saying in this speech is, this is how you be. Is Donald Trump a threat to us? Absolutely.
But what's the most effective case you can make? And one of the ways that we can be effective... And what do you do if you're talking to someone who doesn't think Donald Trump's a threat? You still need to get their vote.
And part of what he's saying is, hey, we want to be a party people want to join, right? We want to be a place that everybody feels welcome. Does that mean that people aren't wrong and hold views that we find abhorrent? Of course it does.
But what is effective? What is practical? What brings people in? And that was just so refreshing. This was a night about winning.
There has been so much talk over the last month about how the parallels between Kamala Harris 24 and Barack Obama 08, right? Just the packed crowds, the energy. But I think we've known them for a long time.
They see those parallels too. Not in the superficial crowd in a way, but just in the kind of campaign she's running and the kind of politician she is, right? She is running a fearless campaign where she knows she's the underdog, right? Like, it seems like a small thing for most people out in the world, but pulling off, going live at your convention is a situation where one person tripping over a wire can embarrass the shit out of you on national television in front of 30 million people, whoever we're watching tonight.
But they did it anyway because they, you know, Barack Obama always says, if your name is Barack Hussein Obama, it doesn't matter what the polls say, you're an underdog. And if your name is Kamala Harris, you're an underdog.
And she's running like an underdog. And she's also trying to build a movement that's about people, not her.
It's like Kamala Harris for the people. Kamala for the people is what, or a future for the people.
And I just really felt their passion for her and what she stands for and the kind of president she would be in those remarks. They were putting it on the line.
Michelle Obama did not have to speak at this convention. Yeah, she wanted to.
And it's 08 like in that people are genuinely excited about her and people are getting involved and reading about politics who normally don't pay a lot of attention. I think we're all probably hearing that in our lives.
What's different than 08 is, look, I didn't agree with John McCain on a lot of issues, but if he had been president, I was like, well, he's a good man. He's got a core decency to him.
He'll do some things that I think are abhorrent, but I don't think that he's going to damage the country. Donald Trump is an existential threat to the nation, to democracy, and also people are excited about Kamala Harris.
That's a pretty potent combination. And the other thing that's similar is that Obama was about turning the page on an era that had been going on for an overly long time.
It was basically like Bushes running against Democrats for a long time. And this is Kamala Harris represents an end to this nine fucking years of Donald Trump.
Yeah. Yeah.
Right. And the Democratic Party has not gone forward since Obama.
You know, his great credit We went backwards, right? Hillary Clinton ran Right and then Biden stepped up and ran and we have not we've never hit the post Obama era We've never turned the page unless we've had almost a decade where every single moment was about Donald Trump and Kamala Harrison I think the reason people are excited is there is a promise of something different Right and that is what her campaign is not about Trump. It's about her.
And I think that is very compelling. And that's sort of what you heard in some of Obama's remarks tonight.
I just think AOC last night, Doug Emhoff, Barack Obama, Michelle Obama, all very different people, some in politics, some not, some different ideological persuasions. Just shout out, Doug.
You're in that sentence, man. Great job.
Incredible. An entertainment lawyer.
Also married up. That would be an amazing dinner party.
You would not think there's like a common thread that like binds all those people together, but they all did something similar with their speeches, which is like invite people in to this movement, to this party who may not pay close attention to politics may not necessarily be with us and all of them are trying to grab people who just may not necessarily be with us and to bring them in. There's a moment where Doug that I really liked where he said Kamala Harris is a joyful warrior but but just because you're joyful doesn't mean you're a warrior she's a warrior and And there's something about that that the thing Trump does is throws people off their game and they're just not being thrown off by Trump.
She's not running away from being joyful. They're celebrating the laugh.
It really is a campaign that also just reflects the lessons of the last nine years. It's figuring out...
The Democratic Party has adapted to Trump and in Kamala for the first time you really see a campaign that's built around uh his moves that that kind of sees ahead of his moves well and michelle did a good job foreshadowing too at one point she was like and things are going to get tough and people are going to get nervous she's been there you're going to see the polls and you're going it's going to happen like everything's feeling great right now but times are going to get tough and when they do keep this, keep this feeling, keep this work going. She goes so big, but then she also goes real small.
And it's like, you are going to get to work. You're going to make that call.
You're going to give money. You're not going to whine about God getting touched by the political director.
I love it. She's so actionable with her demands.
The last thing I would just say is if you are a Democratic politician, you're a speechwriter, you're a wannabe communications director. The speeches you just laid out AOC, Doug, Barack Obama, Michelle Obama, watch those speeches and don't emulate the cadence.
Yeah, right It's not the copy them especially since they're all so different Yeah, it is just look at how they gave the speech like how the speeches weren't about themselves Look at how they told a story. It's just look at how they were not trying to go vibe.
None of them were trying to go viral. Right.
No. It just, it was just.
A lot of Barack Obama stuff like in the room, like you said, it wasn't like thunderous applause because he was like thinking about the audience. It's hard to pick out a moment too because it really is like an argument made over the course of a speech.
It's a lot of amens. Yeah.
Mind us. There was a weird, you guys hear the guy last night when Biden was speaking and kept being like, Joe in his bag.
I love that guy.

He's so funny.

He's so good.

All right.

That was my favorite.

Enough of that. Later in the show, you're going to hear our interview with Julia Louis-Dreyfus.
But when we come back, our really fun conversation with Kamala Harris's good friend and our senator from California, LaFonza Butler. And we came away.
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Look, we know things don't feel great right now, but we can equip ourselves for the unprecedented months ahead without letting the news overwhelm us. Join us each week at Strict Scrutiny as we break down the cases that will decide the rules we all have to live by.
We'll supplement your daily news diet with a dose of necessary legal analysis and a healthy serving of our Real Housewives takes, some pop music, and 90s throwbacks. Because we believe there's no better way to unwind after an oral argument than by watching a stupid reality TV argument.
Subscribe to Strict Scrutiny wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to check out full episodes on YouTube. Joining us tonight, fresh off her convention speech here in Chicago is California's junior Senator, our Senator, and a longtime close ally of Kamala Harris, LaFonza Butler.
Welcome to the pod, Senator. Thank you for having me.
So you've known Kamala Harris for 15 years. A lot of the country is just getting to know her, even though they know that she's vice president.
Can you tell us something about Kamala Harris that not a lot of people know, but know I think everybody knows everything so I'm just going to tell you everything I know about her how's that so look I think she is one of the funniest fun uh people that I have ever been around yeah um she is warm in ways that you just couldn't really imagine.

She's had to be an executive in office over and over again.

And just to see her with my daughter and to see her hang out and invite my daughter over to a pool party at the VP's residence.

And show her a good time. But also to see her grab the face of a stranger's kid and tell them how important they are and tell them how much the country is counting on their leadership.
You know, to me, that's the best picture of Kamala Harris that I can give to the American people. It's a person who's fun and fun loving, but makes not afraid to make hard choices while having a good time.
That's great. You were to side a lot of the 2020 campaign as a senior advisor.
What was it like being an advisor to her during that period? And what lessons do you think she learned from that campaign? Look, I think that she has learned very much how to go about introducing herself to the country. I think that was a critical objective of her 2020 campaign.
I think she did a good job in places where she was able to sort of dig in and spend some time. And I think the way that she's been in partnership with President Biden, giving her the opportunity to not just travel the country, but travel the world and really understand how to communicate quickly, effectively, but yet completely about particular issues, about herself.
And I think that's an incredible skill that she has sharpened. And I think we're all witnessing the execution of this campaign, her ability to do that in a stronger way.
Yeah, that's been, I think, so refreshing and exciting for people, even people who were excited about Vice President Harris, if Bill Biden steps aside being a candidate, or even people that love her are blown away by how she has just taken on this mantle, this incredible amount of pressure and performed so well and in such an authentic way. And it reminded me, I think, we interviewed Kamala Harris back in 2017, 2018, and an incredible person on stage.
Was there some recognition that I think during that 2020 campaign, whether it was not talking about being a prosecutor or or all this sort of politics around lanes and and all the rest?

Like, is there a lesson there about what not to do about about how to disregard criticism or what do you think?

Look, I think there's, you know, in a crowded primary field, I think that experience was probably one that, you know, maybe will be unique for that period of time. And we had, you know, such qualified, extraordinary candidates in that primary.
Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, Cory Booker. It was really the best of the best of the bench of the Democratic Party.
And I think all of them were trying to figure out, you know, how best do I make the strongest impression possible? And I think truly the lesson for so many of us that were on that campaign is just forget about all of that. It is just be who you are, show up as authentically as possible, and with clear passion about what it is that you care about and a vision to communicate to the American people and let the chips fall where they may.
And so I think what we see in the execution of this campaign, but frankly, I think throughout the vice presidency in service with President Biden, since Dobbs and that Dobbs decision, she has just decided that there's so much at stake that she's not going to get it perfectly every time, but she's going to get it right every time because she's going to show up and be who she is and talk directly to the American people. And that's the, to me, the exciting part about where we are.
So Joe Biden did something pretty rare in politics. He chose to voluntarily give up the chance to stay in power.
You did the same thing when you chose not to seek re-election. How did you come to that decision? You know, it's interesting.
I became a United States senator in 48 hours. Senator Feinstein passed away late Thursday, early Friday morning.
The governor, Governor Gavin Newsom, really had to figure out what his options were, and I think he spent a lot of time doing that on Friday. I got into conversation with him late Saturday.
I was, my family and I were on a trip in Colorado and were flying back on Sunday when the news broke and my mom found out the same way that everybody else did, that I was going to be a United States Senator. And I literally was sworn in on Tuesday morning, October 3rd.
And so for me to be able to have the time to think about how do I serve my country and my state in this unprecedented and unpredicted moment is different from do I want to spend my life doing this? And in order to really, I think, show up as the kind of senator that Californians deserve, it's got to be somebody who knows that this is what they want to spend their life doing. And for me, it was, I have a nine-year-old daughter.
She's going to be 10 in two weeks.

The commitment that I had already made was that I was going to be the best mom for her.

And, you know, I had already made a commitment.

And what I, after going across California and really assessing, could I raise the money?

Could I get the endorsements?

Could I change the playing field by taking endorsements away from folks who are already in the race? The answer to that was yes. And I knew that to be true.
And so the question had to just become, is it something that I wanted to do? And I didn't. And so I didn't.
That's interesting. You really thought about it.
You got into it. Oh, no, I did the work.
I got into it. I could tell you where the money was going to come from.
I could tell you what endorsements I was going to take. Yeah, I did the work.
I considered it. I was clear with Governor Newsom I would not accept the appointment if I couldn't.
If it was his expectation that I wouldn't. Because people thought that, right?

They thought there was some sort of a deal. I understand that, but that's because they hadn't met me yet.
Yeah. It's not the kind of game I play.
It's not how I roll. If I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it my way.
And I think the governor appreciated that. You've been in politics for a long time, activist, organizer, advisor.
having been in the Senate and been in an elected capacity, what did you learn about politics being in Washington that you didn't already know from your long career in politics? You know, it's a great question. And I spent a lot of time in my career adjacent to politics.
I'd always sort of, you know, figured that I was Just a step or two removed from those in the seat having to make the decision, but having the influence to be able to persuade, engage, communicate effectively with those who are making the decision. And so now being the person that gets persuaded and engaged and communicated too effectively.
It definitely changes the dynamic, but it has helped me to appreciate what I think is a fundamental element that we need to develop our muscle in, and that is the partnership between the advocacy community and committed elected leaders. We see those old photos of Reverend Martin Luther King Jr.
sitting in the president's office and in negotiation and conversation with folks around the March on Washington. Those are conversations, those photos capture the kinds of relationships necessary necessary to produce the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act and the Housing Rights Act.
And so I think that we've got to figure out how we bring more strategic collaboration between the advocacy community as well as the elected officials. And that's the thing that actually made it, made it has become more real for me being in the seat.
Is there something you think advocates, is there something you came to understand that you realized, oh, this is something advocates are getting wrong or something you wish they understand now that you've been in this seat? I think at the end of the day, it's about power, right? Like getting to the outcomes that we want to achieve is about assessing, do I have enough power? Do we collectively have enough power to get there? And what I would love for our advocate community and being a part of it, I put this on myself as well, is that we spend a lot of time talking to the elected officials who we know are on our side. And we don't spend enough time building our power with the folks who need to be persuaded.
And so does that make us think about our coalition formation differently in order to actually move the needle and get the next three votes that we need to? Do we change who goes to the meeting? Do we adjust our messaging a bit? And so not just spending so much time with the folks who are with us,

but actually doing the hard work to figure out how we find common ground

with those who might not naturally be with us.

That's a great lesson to learn, I think, for all of us.

Senator Lafonso Butler, thank you so much for coming on Pod Save America,

and thanks for being our senator. Thank you for having me.
Are you going to run for something else? I am not. That's a shame.
Are you sure? I am not running for anything else right now. Oh, I like that right now.
Just going to go be a mom for a while. I am.
Great. Thank you all so much.
Okay, we're about to go to break. And when we come back, you're going to hear our conversation with Julie Louis-Dreyfus.

But before we do that, I want to call your attention to a moment

from Kamala Harris's event in Milwaukee tonight.

No, no, we haven't already won.

77 days of work to do, my friends.

Someone said you've already won.

Like, it's a fucking participation trope.

Was it Michael J. Fox from the future? I hope so.
To her point, we haven't already won. That's our job.
We got to do the work. That's why we're very excited to announce that Vote Save America has set a big goal.
As we mentioned, 75,000 volunteer signups for their 2024 Organizer Else program by September 17th, National Voter Registration Day. Vote Save America is the absolute best at providing the highest impact ways you can take action right now to support down ballot races in must win districts and build momentum for the Harris Walls ticket.
So we got currently 40,000 volunteers in the program, which means ambitious goal, very necessary, but only achievable with you. So go to votesaveamerica.com slash 2024 to sign up.
This message has been paid for by Vote Save America. You can learn more at votesaveamerica.com.
And this ad has not been authorized by any candidate or candidates committee. When we come back, Julia Louis-Dreyfus.
It's time to have your high five moment with high five casino, the top social casino down the cases that will decide the rules we all have to live by. We'll supplement your daily news diet with a dose of necessary legal analysis and a healthy serving of our Real Housewives takes, some pop music, and 90s throwbacks.
Because we believe there's no better way to unwind after an oral argument than by watching a stupid reality TV argument. Subscribe to Strict Scrutiny wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to check out full episodes on YouTube.
Welcome back to Pod Save America, Julia Louis-Dreyfus. Yes.
Thank you for welcoming me back.

It's good to have you back. What are you doing here in Chicago at the convention? I just happened to be here, and I thought I'd pop in.
It's a great town. I actually went to college here.
You did? Yes. Where'd you go to school? Northwestern.
Oh, nice. Yes.
I'm here because I am a tried-and-true Democrat, number one. And I came specifically for a few events, including I am hosting a panel of all the eight Democratic female governors.
I'm doing that, I guess, today, this afternoon is how I should say it. And the link is in my bio bio you guys are going to put the link because you can live stream it and it should be uh hopefully I mean you know to be honest with you I I hope it goes well but it's eight people what are you guys gonna be talking about I don't know you are you asking them all questions I yeah okay and so I've got a list of things you know by the way they have this complete you may know this already but you know they have this camaraderie they've got a text chain things.
You know, by the way, they have this complete, you may know this already, but, you know, they have this camaraderie. They've got a text chain going.
They're all, it's a real. That sounds like a fun text chain.
It actually does, right? And so they're a very close group. And so I think it's going to be interesting to hear what leadership is like from their point of view.
That's great. Yeah.
I think maybe you start out by really insulting Kathy Hochul so that the rest know to be afraid of you. Or come to her defense.
And then we see the sort of connection of the group in action. Or divide them.
Whichever. Or divide.
Yeah. Well, that'll be easy.
Because it's women. It's easy to ruffle up women.
This is not your first foray into politics. You've been really involved in the last several years in the trump era um how did you pre-trump too by the way too yeah how did you make the decision to like be active in politics which is sometimes tricky for a celebrity of your status you know what uh i had this feeling that if i didn't i would feel guilty.
So I had a feeling of

responsibility and I never ever ever ever purport to be an expert on the issues because I ain't but what I do try to do is shine the spotlight on people that I think should have a spotlight on them and and I'm very focused this election to on down ballot races. So I'm doing a lot of work to raise awareness of various state legislature races and so on in various states.
Because, you know, sometimes raising funds or awareness for those smaller, as it were, campaigns, not so small anymore in the sense that state legislatures have so much power and authority. And I think it's, you know, a few hundred dollars can go a very long way in races like that.
Do you ever find, because there are plenty of people that aren't willing to do that. They're just like, I stay out of politics.
I don't want people to know what I think about politics. I don't want to be involved.
I understand that. Do you like, do you ever talk to people who feel that way and try to persuade them that they actually should, that it's worth it? Do you have any regrets about doing it? Talking to people about that? Or just like, do you ever, are there any downsides? Have you felt downsides to becoming active in politics? Because there are plenty of famous people who could be shining a light on issues who decide not to.
Oh, gosh, that's a good question. I know, I don't think speaking for myself, there hasn't been a downside for me.
I just I I do feel frustrated sometimes with certain people that I know who don't sort of, I don't know, use their celebrity for good. You know, I've said this before, but I'm quoting Norman Lear.
He used to say celebrity is something you can spend. And, you know, you can spend too much of it.
You can, in fact. And so one has to be careful and thoughtful about where you choose to spend it.
I choose to spend it in this way. Yeah.
So what do you think of the switch, the big switch? Love it. Is it going to be a Biden convention? Now it's a Harris convention? Well, I have to say, first of all, it was absolutely the right thing to do.
I'm delighted that it happened. It really, in my view, absolutely cements Biden's legacy as a hero in American history.
This is just an extraordinary moment in politics. I just cannot get over what's happened in such a short period of time.
I am so excited. I really am legitimately- It's a strange feeling.
It's a strange feeling. Yeah.
And isn't it fascinating how they have just tripled down on joy and light?

It is, and please, Tim Walz. Tim Walz.
How great. Oh, and the fact that he has taken, he's, how can we say this? He has burst the bully bubble by not empowering him, even though should Trump be reelected, please may it not happen.
That would be a terrible thing. But he is letting others know that we mustn't be afraid.
We must approach this with strength and humor.

We should laugh at this guy.

And it really bothers him when we do. And it kind of takes his power away from him.
It's just good old-fashioned handling a bully tactics. I was going to ask you about that.
So your character on Veep, Selina Meyer, found herself in an almost identical situation to Kamala Harris, but she has the personality of Trump. Exactly.
Or more like Trump, at least. Much more like Trump.
Do you have advice for Kamala Harris on how to approach Trump? And you think that the mockery and humor is a good way to approach it? Well, I mean, she's obviously found her voice and her authentic voice. I mean, that is in evidence, I think.
I don't know if you guys agree with that. Yes, for sure.
I mean, it is completely, I feel like she's found herself in front of our eyes. And as far as presenting herself and very really and honestly, we can tell this is who she is when she speaks.
And she takes him very seriously, but she also takes his behavior not seriously. And I think that's important.
She does both at the same time. So I want to ask you about your career just a little bit.
Okay. That's okay.
Yeah, sure. It's not that interesting, though.
Oh, I think it is. By the way, we, well, anyway, I was going to talk about our plane ride.
Oh, yes. We were on the same flight coming here.
I heard. I just got Tony Goldwyn.
He got you. He got me.
And we were almost diverted to Milwaukee. Love Tony.
Milwaukee because of Air Force One landing. Yeah.
Joe, come on. Joe Biden.
My God. We were almost Trump voters by the time we landed.
Then we got drinks. I was very jealous when I heard this.
I know. I thought we were going to be renting a car and driving from Milwaukee to Chicago together.
A dream come true. It would have been really good.
So, you've led multiple hit shows. Not a lot of people can say that.
Okay. Okay, keep going.
Okay. So there's a lot of people that they're incredibly funny in one time and place.
Yeah. They don't really evolve.
They get kind of stuck. How have you thought about staying curious about evolving as a performer, even in different times, just, you know, Seinfeld and Veep as big as it can get completely different styles completely different tones yeah um well at the risk of sounding like an um can you swear on this show yeah like a asshole artist type um i um have never approached my career by thinking of it like that.
I approach it by, I mean, I really like to work and I get very excited by material that provokes me and in a good way. And so that's been the driver.
And then I've just lucked out. But, I mean, that has been the driver.
There are certain pitfalls to show business that I think I haven't fallen prey to. Like what? Celebrity stuff.
There's a kind of success that you can't really focus on because it'll fuck you up you know it really will I think it's really about material at the end of the day and and by the way some things haven't worked out but I don't have regrets about any of that and by the way when I say haven't worked out I mean haven't been huge hits but that's okay because I have had a really I've had a really good time playing all sorts of different things. Well, the reason I was thinking about it is because like, so J.D.
Vann says, I love Diet Mountain Dew. And I think that's disgusting.
Yeah. You're gross.
Yeah. Then Tim Walz says, I love Diet Mountain Dew.
And I think I should try Diet Mountain Dew. Okay.
That's fascinating. Well, it's because he has charisma.
Of course, there's a policy difference, but Tim Waltz is charming. He has it.
He's disarmingly charming. Yes.
And I think a lot of times we try to make politics objective, but sometimes some people have it, and some people don't have it. Correct.
You have it. Thank you.
You do, but you're beloved. I'm not running for office.
I running for office you've played you've played some of the biggest jerks you've played beloved characters but but the same thing that carries them together is you have this charm this charisma what is it what is it come on no i want to know what is it tim walls has it you have it kamala has it some people don't ted cruz doesn't have it. What the fuck is it? I can't.
I can't. I think maybe they are sort of to what I said earlier.
I think there's an authenticity in place. I think you're aware of the fact that J.D.
Vance is not telling the truth about himself and that you're picking up on that. Same is true of Cruz.
Same is true of Kevin McCarthy. All of these guys, there is a...
And by the way, we can differ on policy. There are Republicans that are affable and charming.
They are. There are.
But there is a... People can smell a fake.
Yeah. I think.
Veep is one of the greatest shows ever. One of the greatest characters ever.
Like, we are watching it again, my wife and I, like for the fifth time. It's like up 350% now, the number of people who are like watching it now because of the situation we're all in.
It really is timeless. A lot of political shows tend to sort of age differently.
I'm just wondering, what did Veep, because I also think that it's the most accurate portrayal of the White House and politics of any political show. What did it teach you about politics? Well, you came and spoke to our writers because we had a lot of people come in who were in the weeds, as it were, and talk to us about that experience.
you know it was just a reminder which is both good and bad

that these are really honestly just people

like you and I are sitting here just people

who

you know wake up have their coffee

go to the bathroom, you know, do everyday normal people things and they just happen to be in positions of government. And it's really that simple.
And sometimes it fucks you up. And sometimes it fucks you up.
Sometimes it brings out the worst in you. And sometimes it brings out the best in you.
So it doesn it's certainly um it one thing that was great about doing the show is that it gave us access to sort of inside politics in a way that was super interesting and i i'm i'm a kind of a nerd for that i love it um but you did get to meet people who were very um well intentioned and well-meaning. Both sides of the aisle.
I really mean that. And so, yeah, it was an extraordinary opportunity to meet people really trying to make the world a better place.
Like, really trying to do the right thing. And that can be very inspiring.
Yeah. Julie Dreyfuss, thank you as always for coming on Hot Save America.

Hey, it's my pleasure.

So good to see you.

It's so good to see you too.

Good luck with all the governors tomorrow.

Oh, God.

What should I ask them for reals?

Oh, that's a good question.

Yeah, come on, guys.

Just give me a little something.

Ask them to all give it.

Have them give a little advice to Kamala.

Because they're all going to be very messagey, right?

Every governor, they're going to get their talking points out.

Which is great.

That's their job.

Yeah, but there's... ask them to all give it give them have them give a little advice to kamala because they're all going to be very messagey right every governor they're going to they're going to get their talking points out which is great that's their job yeah but they're not all yes but they're not running i don't think anybody's on the ballot and so i i'm hopeful that maybe we can avoid some of that but i don't know some of them some of these governors are from states where they've been able to protect abortion access and some of them are from governors from states where they haven't been able to right and in the states where we there are states we need to win where like say gretchen whitmer has done an incredible job of making sure that abortion acts is protected right but we need abortion to be salient for those voters right and we found that like in states where california new york people didn't feel like it was as much a threat.
How do they think about making sure people understand the threat Trump poses on abortion when they're working so hard to protect abortion access for their people? Right. Or they have a red legislature and they're dealing with.
Yes, exactly. Oh, I go into what there has become there's a huge gender gap opening up in this election.
There's a gender gap opening up even larger in Gen Z. z so these younger voters like there's young men are becoming like more republican but people like gretchen whitmer people like maura healy they're like governors in states where they have won like there hasn't been as big of a gender gap and they've been like really appealing to like both men and women and i think like talking about sort of the gender split there is kind of interesting to see how they deal with it because gretchen whitmer is like beloved in michigan like wins by overwhelming margins yeah rural areas cities everywhere so it's kind of interesting to know what her secret is well i think to what we were discussing earlier i think they really pick up on her authenticity yeah i just read i just read her book when we were on our plane by the way and um it's um actually a really interesting read and it's and it's very um uh digestible can i tell you something that i was embarrassed of on our plane ride you were watching the real housewives no i was watching i looked over and you were reading a physical book a physical book and i was like i have to take take out my iPad and watch House of the Dragon.
And I was like trying to hide my screen. And then finally, your husband took out an iPad.
And I was like, oh, thank God. Please don't read a book.
Please don't read a book. And he didn't.
He watched something. And I was like, fuck it.
We can watch TV. I don't have to feel embarrassed about watching this bad reboot.
I can be myself. Have a cocktail.
All right. Yeah,.
Thank you for coming on. Good luck tomorrow.
That's our show for tonight, but we've got more from the DNC for our Friends of the Pod subscribers. Lovett and I answered some of your questions, did some behind the scenes, and played Take Appreciators.
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