John Fetterman and Symone Sanders-Townsend on House Chaos (Live from DC!)

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Escalade IQ, Optic and Lyric Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
I'm Simone

Sanders Townsend.

I'm Jon Lovett.

I'm Tommy

Vesor. I'm Dan

Pfeiffer.

We have an outstanding

show for you tonight. Jon Fetterman

is here.

Virginia State

Senate candidate Jennifer Carol

Foy is here.

Chef Jose Andre

Thank you. is here.
Virginia State Senate candidate Jennifer Carol Foy is here. Chef Jose Andres is here.

And we are so lucky to be joined by our old friend, part of the Crooked family,

and now the host of Simone on MSNBC, Simone Sanders Townsend.

All right. Would anyone here like to be Speaker of the House? It's competitive pay, great benefits, second in line to the presidency.
The House of Representatives has now been without a Speaker for 16 days. First, Republicans took down Kevin McCarthy, then they voted down Steve Scalise, and now they have twice denied the gavel to a guy who never really liked elections in the first place, Jim Jordan.
So they almost decided to give the job to interim speaker Patrick McHenry, at least until January, but when Republicans realized that would require them to do some truly crazy shit, like work with Democrats, hold votes, govern, they ditched that plan. And then they started screaming and swearing at each other in a closed-door meeting today.
Some Republicans complained about the death threats they were getting because they voted against Jordan. Some of them were waving around their pocket constitutions, apparently.
One guy left to go pray the rosary, and then one guy looked like he was about to kick Matt Gaetz's ass. So, I mean, sounds like a great workplace culture.
I wish I was there. Simone, what do you think Matt Gaetz and his seven goofballs have accomplished by overthrowing Kevin McCarthy? I mean, utter chaos.
They have accomplished utter chaos. Y'all thought it was chaotic before.
It was amateur hour. Okay, corral last week, honey.
This is something new. I just think it's so insane because, like, where does it end? You know, like, my money was always on that Speaker McCarthy was going to get ousted.
He wasn't going to survive the whole continuing resolution, debt limit situation. But where do we go from here? Because the only person that has managed to get enough votes to get close to 217 has been Hakeem Jeffries.
Like, where are five of those Republicans that sit in districts that Joe Biden won? Where are five of those House Republicans who are willing to say, you know what? We're going to vote for Hakeem and maybe he'll back us in the next year and give us a little money so we don't lose. I don't know.
It's just absolutely crazy. It's embarrassing.
And Joe Biden can send whatever packages he wants to send to Congress. Without a Speaker of the House, no package is going to pass anything.
Dan, why has it been so hard for Republicans to elect a Speaker? Kevin McCarthy, by the way, he's been saying this every day for the last two weeks. He's still saying it's Democrats' fault.
Even after everything that happened today, it's Democrats' fault that they can't elect a speaker. That's what got him in this in the first place.
To be very clear, that's what got him in this mess. The Democrats probably, not even probably, I know for a fact from all of the Democratic members of Congress I spoke to had kevin mccarthy not gone on television with margaret brennan love margaret shout out to margaret brennan okay but gone on television with margaret brennan and blamed democrats after they helped him fund the government keep the government open he probably would still be the speaker of the house it's i just on the blaming of democrats it really is this sort of like uh child divorce.
You know, you're yelling at mom because you know mom cares. You know, mom is the one who you can hurt.
And dad's fucking gone. Better help.
Brought to you by BetterHelp.

Anyway, Dan.

The question was to Dan.

It is funny that Kevin McCarthy lost his speakership 16 days ago.

We no longer have to care what the junior member from Bakersfield thinks.

He's just a backbencher now.

He doesn't even have a committee. Who cares what he says?

I think there are three reasons why the Republicans can't pick a speaker.

The first is, and this is a come as a shock to everyone, these are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. Yeah, no.
Some would say they're spoons. Don't disrespect spoons like that, Dan.
Disrespectful. Gates didn't think it through.
Scalise didn't think it through. Jim Jordan clearly hasn't thought it through.
They don't really know what they're doing. They have no solution.
Now, the second problem is the Republican Party is no longer a coherent party. For a long time, they at least organized themselves around smaller government, lower taxes, let corporations do whatever they want, invade countries willy-nilly.
But they have nothing in common now, right? Like, just think of it's just a coalition of people who largely disagree about what they stand for and disagree on who they hate. And so you have people who are neocons who want to invade every country.
You have people who are supporting Russia and opposing all this funding that Biden wants to spend. You have people who love Trump, people who hate Trump, people who pretend to love Trump.
You have the people, the Matt Gaetzes and the Marjorie Taylor Greens are just kind of there for the lulls. You have the Paul Ryan descendants who want to cut Medicare.
You have the populace. They stay in front of this.
They can't, there's no purpose, collective purpose for being there. So they won't, they can't, there's no urgency.
There's something they want to pass collectively that would make them actually put aside petty grievances to pick a speaker. And the third reason is the House of Representatives is one-sixth of the government and they hate government.
They don't want to do anything. They exist to destroy government.
And so the idea that they would put aside, take tough votes to try to make government work is such a foreign concept to them that they can't possibly do it. Like you don't hire arsonists to be firefighters.
And that's where that's what this is. Yeah.
Yeah, I know. They, uh, they make the argument that government can't work and then they go about proving it.
Uh, So, Tommy, I will admit, I was kind of surprised that Jordan didn't get it today or yesterday only because I figured when everyone was like, oh, you know, Sean Hannity's producers sending out letters, they're threatening people, right? And I was like, usually when like the MAGA wing of the party, which is now most of the party, when they start threatening more establishment Republicans, they end up getting their way, and the Republicans cave. But apparently, were you surprised that not everyone caved to Jim Jordan's threat? I don't know if surprised.
I mean, look, we might eat these words tomorrow, but so far it seems like maybe he's bad at politics.

I'm not even trying to be glib.

There's some people, like Dan was just saying, there's some people who perform MAGA and then some people who believe the MAGA.

And he believes the MAGA.

And I think he has read one history book and he knows that congressional leaders... It was written by Brett Baer.
Hey, I got him a $30 million house. Brett, that is.
He's read like one book and he knows that, you know, Nancy Pelosi would like bust some heads to get votes. But that was once she had the power, not like on the way to trying to get the power.
So he clearly offended all these moderates. Then he completely backed and he supported this uh short-term plan to empower mchenry that pissed off all the people on the right and now they're just scrambling and you know basically all they're doing is like making poor jake sherman just like sprint up and down the capital oh he found the one place that gets that joke just like a lot of siren emojis all the time.
It says so much about the state of the Republican Party and the right-wing media that we all legitimately believe that Sean Heddy's producer was going to close the deal with an email. Well, the one thing that like sort of, you know, a lot of these people, their incentive is to get on television and get headlines and raise money that way and to make a name for themselves.
And Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan, the thing about becoming this kind of basically right-wing influencer via Congress is it's not a team sport. It's parallel play.
And these are a bunch of toddlers who haven't yet learned to play together. They can sit in front of a camera and they can have fun by themselves, but they don't like, they don't get sharing yet.
We'll love it. Like, here's what surprised me is that, so some of people who voted against jordan are in safe districts and they voted against them for different reasons some of them are much more conservative than you would have expected about a dozen i think a dozen republicans who are sitting in districts that joe biden won voted for jordan for jim jordan to speaker they are sitting there in biden districts and they voted voted for Jim Jordan.
How much of a political liability do you think that will be all the way in 2024 when people go vote a year from now? And if you were running a race against those Republicans, what would you say? I think, first of all, so one of those goofballs is a guy named Mark Molinaro.

He's a Republican who narrowly flipped a Biden district.

And here's what he said.

He said, most people I...

This is why he ran as a kind of bipartisan Republican who isn't like these kooks.

He voted for Jordan.

Most of the people I represent wouldn't know the Speaker of the House if they backed over them with a pickup truck.

Which is quite an endorsement of Jim Jordan. I don't think they could identify the body, therefore I'm a yes.
I do think it's incumbent upon us to make it a liability. And look, do I think that we'll be still talking about this Speaker's race a year from now? Probably not, but I do think we'll be trying to tell a story about Republican extremism.
And in one of the most important

votes these people will ever face, a moment where voting no could really make a difference,

deciding to say no to Republican extremism could really make a difference, they decided that for

their own personal, craven, partisan needs, they were going to support an agenda of someone who believes in an abortion ban, not at 12 weeks, not at six weeks, but at the moment of conception, someone who voted for the insurrection, who participated in the insurrection, one of the most extreme members of Congress, and beyond his terrible policy views, is one of the most radical and toxic and mean-spirited people in politics who practices the kind of politics that the vast majority of Americans say they reject and don't want to have to vote for. So I think we have to tell that story.
And this is a part of that story. I think they'll be calling John to cut the ads.
You got your ad business up, they're going to be calling you to cut the ads. Okay, sure.
Yeah. I mean, I is correct and on top of all of that the one thing that uh jim jordan was in charge of this congress you know the weaponization committee and the first hearing that they had all of the republican witnesses were like you know there's really no they're there for this impeachment yeah did not did not roll that out well it didn't go well but i just you know these i i these, I think that every single, and you know, we've reached out to invite some of these members on my show this weekend, but I think that every single member that voted for Jim Jordan should be made to answer for why.
Put a camera in their face, put a microphone in front of their mouth and ask them because they are accountable to their constituents.

And I also think for the folks who voted no, put a camera in their face, put a microphone in front of their mouth and ask them because they are accountable to their constituents. And I also think for the folks who voted no, put a camera in their face, put a microphone in front of their mouth and make them say it.
There's apparently going to be another opportunity tomorrow to vote again. Yeah.
So Jim Jordan has not dropped out, even though he met with the 20 holdouts tonight and every single meeting went poorly. None of them have changed their minds.
And so he took that to mean, keep going. So he's going to hold another vote.
They said they might hold votes over the weekend. Meanwhile, Patrick McHenry is like, I don't want to be temporary speaker.
It's not going to happen. I don't think I have the powers of the speaker without a vote.
So I don't know. I actually don't know where they go from here because it seems like unless first first of all, if there was a Republican who could get to 217, we would know who that person is by now.
So I don't know that this gets resolved without them finally reaching out to Democrats or doing it with Democratic votes. It's literally how the government got funded.
You know, we kept the government open because Republicans and Democrats worked together, even though at the time Speaker McCarthy said, I will never do this. We are not going to do that.
I'm not bringing a clean continuing resolution to the floor. And he ended up doing it.
And again, it passed with more Democratic votes than Republican votes. I think eventually this is where they will land.
It is already like utterly embarrassing, is there are catastrophic consequences for not having a speaker of the House, for the House of Representatives not to be able to do business.

And a number of Republican members of Congress went on television today and said, no, the business of the House is still happening.

And we were on recess last week. No, the business of the House is actually not happening.

And the government runs out of money on November 17th. Yeah.

Less than a month to fund the government.

And they don't even work that long.

Let's just be very clear. They got

like a couple more days at work.

They go to recess. And they go to recess.

So what's going on? It's mostly Tuesday to Thursday.

Truly.

Well, we'll see what happens.

We'll see what happens. When we come back,

we will talk to Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman.

Joining us now, the junior senator from Pennsylvania

and a friend to all of us who believe that every day should be casual Friday,

John Fetterman.

Hello there. I'm fantastic.
Thank you. It's great to be here.
First question, and I'm sorry I have to ask this, but am I speaking to the real John Fetterman? No, just like in Colbert, I'm actually the body double. And John is looking forward to seeing it at home.
But I got to tell you, I found out that you had crudités in your green room, and I didn't. And I was very explicit about the writer in our contract.
We like to call it a veggie track in honor of you. I've heard that before.
So you were last on the show about a year ago after you had suffered a stroke during your Senate campaign. How is your recovery going and how are you feeling? It's fantastic.
I'm able to be here with you right now, too. And right now I'm able to fully participate in my life as a senator.
And I have the captioning and that is effectively just like if you any of you in the audience wear glasses that you see a book or whatever and you are not able to read it if you don't have your glasses doesn't mean you don't know how to to read of course it's just it's a tool and this is a tool that allows me to fully. And if I just will say that, you know, it has made me, I already thought I was a very empathetic kind of guy.
But now, after this, now, just how incredibly important that we have the kind of technology for anyone with disabilities and making sure that they are to participate fully in our society. You made what I can only imagine must have been an incredibly difficult decision, not only to seek help for depression, but to speak publicly about your struggle.
How did you ultimately make that decision?

I didn't really have to make a choice. I had to.
I had to. After the stroke, it was incredibly difficult in the sense that I essentially lost my life briefly.
And at that point after, and there wasn't really, there wasn't a lot of, you know, kind of, you know, yeah, it's all going to work great after the doctors. You know, it was just kind of like, yeah, well.
But thankfully, I was able to make a, you know, a really recovery. And then after the campaign, and realizing that I'm going to have to run for the Senate in the most visible and the biggest race in the nation.
And the Senate, you know, control is riding on it. And I had to, you know, relearn how to speak and do it in a way that doesn't become the brunt of Fox News.
And it really became a fetish. And it was like candy for Fox News.
And I just had to realize that's how it was going to be. But then throughout all of it, and then after I won, and that's when the depression really hit.
And I broke my children's heart. And they didn't understand why I couldn't get out of bed.
The day after the election, I couldn't get out of the bed, not because I was tired, but because I didn't want to. And they were like, you know, Daddy, What's you won? What's what's wrong? You know, why? Why aren't we enough and everything? And I continue to really.
And I knew that I wasn't going to come back in. And after nearly dying, you know, from a medical crisis to be put on the path of losing your life by your own hand was part of how things went.
And now I'm so happy to talk about mental health because I want everybody to understand that if you are suffering from depression or you have these issues, I'm begging you, please get help. Please, please seek it out.
You do not need to suffer. You do not need to suffer.
And absolutely, absolutely, please, please, please listen. I know you have a huge platform.
To anyone who hears this, please don't ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever hurt yourself. Because it's a kind of blackness that I've never encountered in my life and you could taste it and you can smell it and it's so dark that I will never ever go back to that and you know please you know people need help so well we are all so so happy that you got help and that you are um and that you're talking about it to help other people that That's very courageous.
All right, so I heard you tell a reporter, we were just talking about the speaker race, I heard you tell a reporter this week that House Republicans need to get their act together and decide which dick is going to be speaker. Yeah.
It was like, okay, a couple weeks ago, it was like, okay, it was dick one or dick two. And now it's mystery dick.
Who's it going to be? It seems like they're still dickless right now. They're dickless.
Yeah, I mean, that is such a sad, sad bench to pick for. Well, it's like, there's that going on.
It seems like Congress can't do anything but pass a resolution to stop you from wearing a hoodie on the Senate floor. Have there been moments when you thought man, I had a pretty good gig in Pennsylvania.
What the hell did I come here for? Did you heard about the dress code issue? Oh, yes, no. I think we've all heard something about that, yeah.
Yeah, I know. I mean, I was so right.
I mean, my God, it's so more important if I dress like a slob that, I mean, there might be Israel or Ukraine or not having the government shut down. And let let's talk about, you know, and also, can I have a, can I have a story about that? Yes, please.
So it was kind of dying off. And then of course, my colleague from West Virginia, you know, kind of took it upon it to really honor, you know, everything.
And he said, I'm going to have this resolution, you know, and, and can I support this? And I was like, because I never, I want to be clear, I never asked for that. I mean, I never went to Leader Schumer and like, hey, dude, you know, I want to dress like this, you know, is that cool? So, but again, and he's like, well, here, I hope you can, you know, sign this.
And I'm like, sure, sure, I'll take it. And I'm like, I'll go back to the office and read it.
And then a staffer said, hey, it's called shorts. It's the shorts act.
So he created like an acronym to be clever. Like, you know, I was just like giggle.
They were sitting around their office thinking how clever. That was like a whole day of staffs work.
No, I was, I was, I was really, I was. We have this for you.
There's revolting slob. I know this is one of your...
I mean, he was really sandbagging me, and I was really upset, but then I realized, hey, you're not going to be around much, and I'll probably get his parking space tomorrow. It's wild.
It's wild. So you called out some of your progressive colleagues this week for blaming the Gaza hospital explosion on Israel.
And you said in a statement, quote, we can talk about a ceasefire after Hamas is neutralized. So what do you say to people, including a lot of Israelis who absolutely agree that Hamas needs to be neutralized, but are worried that a massive ground invasion of Gaza could lead to tens of thousands of more civilian casualties, a bigger war in the Middle East, and ultimately, potentially a less secure Israel.
No, it's terrible. It's an awful situation.
Absolutely as well, too. And, you know, I, you know, value the, you know, my children, I have three children, the lives of my children with an Israeli child or a Pasadena child and all that.
I mean, nobody, nobody wants, you know, civilians. We have to make sure of the welfare of the civilians.
But, you know, it's to remember that Hamas doesn't want peace. He doesn't want to be negotiated with or, I mean, and, you know, they massacred, youacred you know innocent children women and now they have over 200 hostages with them right now as well too so I really believe that I'm always going to decide to stand on the side of Israel you know in this place and and and also after the the hospital tragedy now everyone now we know that it was, you know, it was, I guess, Islamic Jihad.

And they tried to blame it on Israel on top of that as well, too, compounding that.

And I was disappointed by a lot of the media outlets that now kind of pushed that narrative coming out immediately saying, well, Hamas says that it was an Israeli rocket, which we all now agree that that wasn't the case.

Thank you. kind of pushed that narrative coming out immediately saying, well, Hamas says that it was an Israeli rocket, which we all now agree that that wasn't the case.
So speaking of foreign entanglements that are dividing the Democratic Party, got to ask you about Bob Menendez, who you apparently confronted on an escalator this week about his refusal to resign after being indicted for bribery and acting as a foreign agent for the Egyptian government. So first of all, good for you.
Yeah, no, yeah. Yeah, he's got to go.
And it's astonishing. Is there anyone in your audience can explain gold bars in your mattress? Does anyone keep half a million dollars in cash randomly across your house? You know, and he claimed it was for emergencies.
And then I thought, yeah, okay, well, you know, my wife and I, we went to Costco, got an extra flashlight for emergencies around the house. So I'm sure it's pretty.
And then, so let's double down. Let's double down on the sleaze where now it was discovered that his then-girlfriend, you know, slammed into and killed a pedestrian and was just talking about how it jumped on her windshield and everything, and she was never tested or anything like that, and was worrying about how do I get a new car? And then if you just can't get any more sorted, it was like now he's a foreign agent.
Why do you think that there are still some Senate Democrats, including Leader Schumer, who still haven't called

on him to resign. That's what I can't understand.
I don't know why, and I don't speak for,

obviously, the leader or anyone else, but I do believe that that's what's appropriate.

And I want to be clear, too, it's not like we need to keep him around because he needs his vote,

like he said, or anything like that. Because, you know, Governor Murphy could appoint a house plant, you you know and they could vote for democrat votes uh you know until there was an election and so it's really only about he's just it's just his own self-interest and it's it's absolutely and and if you're more offended because the way i dress versus and and i also want to recommend this is the second uh the second uh time to the dance of being indicted by the feds.
So, I mean... Yeah, it's a lot of indictments.
So voters, and not just Republicans and independents, but also Democrats, keep telling pollsters they are worried about Joe Biden's age, and they don't think he's done enough to bring down prices, even though inflation is starting to come down. What advice would you give to the president on how he can keep Pennsylvania blue, very tough state, very competitive state in 2024? Yeah, no, honestly, John, and it's not bravado or partisan.
I fundamentally know that President Biden is going to win Pennsylvania. You know, I really believe that.

If it is Trump, you know, Joe Biden will win in Pennsylvania.

Absolutely. You know, allegedly, allegedly he won in 2020.

But but, you know, you know, Pennsylvania loves Joe. And really, I will say that I don't believe that, you know, some of the really pointed kind of criticisms of fellow Democrats against the president aren't they're not helpful at all.

And I really would like to remind everybody just how tough he was and he went through you know I

thought I had it you know rough in my race you know as the senate but you know he had the ultimate crucible in 2020 and and said that through it and he did the right thing and he did a great job you know after it and he's still doing it and here he just put on a master class of diplomacy going to Israel just a couple days ago.

And again, I will say this too. It's like, can you imagine what these circumstances would be like now if Trump was in the White House? What would be happening now in the Middle East or any of these other things too? And you cannot avoid a story about inflation, but guess what? They addressed it, and it's going down.

And what happened to all the articles or anything?

And so I'm proud to stand for Joe Biden, with Joe Biden.

And he's incredibly strong, and I really believe he is going to prevail on that.

All right.

I do.

That's great.

Senator Fetterman, thank you so much for joining us. It's so great to have you here.
Thank you so much. Three distinct all-electric Cadillacs

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the all-electric Cadillac family of vehicles

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Escalate IQ, Optic, and Lyric.

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President Biden has returned from a quick trip to Israel where he met with Bibi Netanyahu, convinced him to allow food and medical supplies into Gaza, and pledged $100 million in humanitarian aid to the Palestinian people.

Biden is now the only president to have visited not one but two active war zones.

And just minutes ago, right before we started, finished up a primetime Oval Office address to the nation where he asked Congress for a hundred billion dollars to support the people of Israel and Ukraine whose struggles he'd linked in his speech let's listen I know these conflicts can seem far away it's natural to ask why does this matter to America so let me share with you why making sure Israel and Ukraine succeed is vital for America's national security. You know, history has taught us that when terrorists don't pay a price for their terror, when dictators don't pay a price for their aggression, they cause more chaos and death and more destruction.
So we just watched the speech backstage. Tommy, what did you think of biden's message and then overall his uh trip to israel so we caught most of the speech backstage it seems like he's trying to do something very hard sort of an inside game and an outside game i think the outside game is trying to explain to the public a very complicated thing which is why the wars in ukraine and israel and supporting our allies there matter to us matter to american security.
And there's sort of an inside game, which is why the wars in Ukraine and Israel and supporting our allies there matter to us, matter to American security. And there's sort of an inside game, which is trying to get Congress to get its act together, to PAX this big funding package, and to do it quickly.
The trip to Israel, like, look, first of all, I respect the hell out of President Biden's willingness to tackle these problems head on, literally put himself at risk, both in Israel and by going to Kiev earlier this year. I mean, that takes a lot of guts.
It really does. I know people who are in the room with him in Israel, had a meeting with him.
Like it's incredibly meaningful to a country that's gone through just unbelievable, historic, horrific trauma. And I think it meant a lot to the entire country.
I think that you know I hope that behind the scenes he was able to talk to Netanyahu about not rushing whatever happens next whether it's a ground offensive hopefully reining back the clip of these airstrikes focusing more on allowing humanitarian relief into Gaza because you know there are a lot of innocent people who are suffering. You know, I saw that he got on the phone with the president of Egypt on the way home from Israel.
He convinced them to allow 20 aid trucks into the Gaza Strip. That is a start.
We should just be honest, though, that 20 trucks is not going to do what it takes to take care of two million people. I thought the message that he brought of like, let's not repeat the mistakes that we made in America in 9-11 was a powerful one and a really important one.
I just want to make sure that Netanyahu listens. And some of the initial reports coming out of the trip suggest that it's going to take a bit.
It's going to take some more repeating of that message. Like the Israeli War Cabinet does not have a plan for the day after a ground invasion.
And like that is understandable because they didn't know that the attack on the 7th was going to happen. So obviously they didn't have time to plan, but hopefully they heard that note of caution.
My anxiety long-term though, is that the picture of Biden and Netanyahu hugging at the airport, sort of sitting side by side, will suggest to a lot of the world that Israel's response is also America's response, no matter how well or badly it goes. And it just means we take ownership of something that could be very scary, could lead to a lot of civilian casualties.
And so, you know, that's my note of caution. But I hope that Biden, through this aggressive diplomacy and really bold diplomacy, is able to get Netanyahu to think twice, be cautious, not act rashly, and hopefully he can save some civilian lives.
so Simone both the trip and the speech

were high-stakes moves that required a lot of planning in a short period of time. Having been in the White House, what's it like to put all that together? And what kind of domestic political considerations do you think went into these decisions? So one, I think, as you all know, is stressful to put those kind of things together.
But I think that this, you know, the folks know I used to work for the president. I think he himself, you know, Joe Biden will tell you that he is his best political advisor, as I think every president will tell you.
And he has deep, long, deep, deep, deep ties when it comes to foreign policy. You know, he served as the chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
He, I think, has said on a number of occasions that he has known Prime Minister Netanyahu. It's like, I've known Bibi for 40 years.
And that's true. And so I think that he himself, just from my reading of it, felt that he had to go and be there and be on the ground.
And he knows this issue and has such a connection to the prime minister that it was important that he is very much so i mean he's always involved but like leaning in and in every nitty-gritty detail of america's uh not just response but their court our coordination with um the government of israel that being said i don't know if initially folks were thinking about a domestic response, and that's what it felt like from the outside looking in. I think from people that I know who are currently inside the administration, there were voices that did raise some things about just the optics domestically, but I also know that a number of Arab Americans who serve in the administration initially did not feel as though that they were heard, that their concerns were being taken into account.
You know, they raised the potential for the humanitarian issues early. And it wasn't until maybe, you know, a week later that everybody started talking about the humanitarian crisis that we all knew if we were just watching would be unfolding in Gaza.
And so I think the

thing that the administration has to keep in mind is that there is a generational divide within the Democratic Party apparatus when you talk about what is happening in the Middle East. And you've seen that in the response over the last two weeks.
And because of that generational divide, there I think there are some younger Democrats that may view the president's trip and his speech tonight differently than some older Democrats. I also think, frankly, that there are people across the country who say, yes, what Hamas did was terrible.
Yes, we have to stand with and support our friends. But also, why do we have all these millions of billions of dollars for Israel and Ukraine, but we don't have money domestically? Now, people don't understand these two separate buckets.
I'm just telling you what the people said. I'm not saying that's how I feel.
I'm just reporting on the news. And so, but that is a real sentiment.
And so if you do not explain to people, or not even explain, the president, I think, did a fine job of explaining why this matters and why, you know, America can't be absent here.

But last week it was reported in the press that the hundred billion dollar aid package would have money for Taiwan, Israel, Ukraine and domestic priorities.

We didn't hear anything about domestic priorities tonight.

And I think that that will be a vulnerable spot for this White House going forward. Yeah.
Love it. To Simone's point about sort of the growing pressure from within the Democratic Party, especially among progressives and young people who want either a ceasefire or at least more done to help and protect civilians in Gaza.
How big of an issue do you think that will be for Biden going forward? And what, if anything, can he do about it? So there's been a lot of polling that basically shows there is, you know, you put aside the kind of loud conversation taking place online. There is kind of broad support in the United States for Israel.
There's broad support for Israel's right to defend itself. But when you look at poll after poll, you find that as you get younger, that support gets more ambivalent and it reduces.
And I think that's in part because there's a lot of shorthand and assumptions that go into how we talk about Israel and America's support for Israel, and a lot of, I think, exposure to history that just hasn't happened over, say, the last 10 or 20 years. And what you see online, I think, is a lot of, I think, right-wing, pro-Israel rhetoric.
And then I do think you see a lot of left-wing rhetoric that is, if not just anti-Zionist, it is anti-Semitic. I do think that there is this big space for, like I draw a very big distinction between protesters who were at the Capitol yesterday for if not now, who believe in Israel's right to exist, who do not believe Israel is fundamentally illegitimate.
But for the sake of the future of a democratic and Jewish state, that restraint is necessary, that Israel will not be free unless Palestine is free.

Palestine will not be free unless Palestine is free. Palestine will not be free unless Israel is safe.
Israel will not be safe unless Palestinian people have hope for a better future. And that that together...
And that that story, I think, is not really a story that's being told. I think that's the story Joe Biden has been telling over the past week and even tonight, making reference to the importance of a two-state solution, making reference to the importance of the humanity of the people of Gaza.
But I do think that that is the kind of message we need to carry, because otherwise I think there's a lot of young people who don't understand this issue, who don't understand that it is possible to believe and support Israel's right to exist and defend itself while also believing in the humanity and the dignity and the rights of people in Gaza and the way in which people in Gaza and the West Bank have been so poorly represented by their leadership and are not represented by a terrorist organization like Hamas. So I think that is the job.
And I think that requires some nuance on the part of those of us that feel right now, I think, surprised by some of the vitriol and anti-Semitism that we see. and also the kind of quiet conversation and worry about how fragile Israel is, especially given the fears people have of what their neighbors might do or the way this conflict might escalate.
while at the same time understanding that what we're hearing from the far right is not persuasive

and only pushes people away from supporting the humanity of both Israelis and Palestinians. Can I just say one other thing? Y'all can clap because that's clap worthy.
Okay. They miss that cue.
They miss that clap cue. I also think that to Lovett's point, there's just a lack of like some of y'all missed AP World History or just World History, period.

It's very clear that people were not paying attention during that section of the class. If that class even existed in your school in the first place, which is a whole nother conversation.
And I would just implore people to look at the videos, to look at the pictures, to read the accounts of the young people who survived that festival on October 7th. Because it is harrowing.
And I feel as though a lot of people have not actually read and looked and listened and heard what actually happened. Because if so, I do not think a lot of my extremely progressive friends would be so quick to say, oh, well, you know, when people are living under occupation for X amount of years, this is bound to happen.
No, no, no, no, no. Two things can be true at the same time.
The Palestinian, there is a very complicated situation. And the Palestinian people, they have been living under occupation and Hamas terrorized, killed raped, kidnapped children babies burned grandmothers in their homes there is no equivalency here and I really think we just need to pay attention and get off the damn internet because it is, it's harrowing.
And I frankly was, I frankly, and the last thing I'll say is I frankly was disgusted as a young person who spent a lot of time near movement politics for a while. I have been disgusted by what i have seen from some of

not all of but some of the activist community in equating hamas with the struggle for you know black lives matter here in the united states it is that those ain't our people the people is the Palestinians. Hamas is not your people.
Yeah. Yeah, look, two things are true.
One, I think intersectional social justice movements should include concern about anti-Semitism. One.
Two, separate thought. Like, big picture, you can support a country and its people and its ideals and dislike its leaders.
Right? I think a lot of people abroad love the United States, what it stands for, the people who live here. They didn't love Donald Trump, right? That's how I feel about Israel.
Like, I want Israel to exist. It's got an incredible dynamic people.
I think it is suffering from terrible leadership under Bibi Netanyahu. And I think talking about his leadership and policy failings is an entirely different thing that we should all do and feel comfortable to.
Yeah. I mean, look, I think it's your point about everyone getting off the internet.
It's like there is a lot of bad information out there. There's a lot of incomplete information out there.
There are social media algorithms that lift up the most extreme examples on both sides and force you to watch them all the time and consume them all the time. And you know what? Like not everyone has to give their take on everything in that moment or ever.
And like, this is just like, it's fog of war and for everyone to take a breath. And like you said, like there are families and children who were massacred in Israel and there are civilians and children and families who have been killed for nothing in Gaza right now.
And there is antisemitism that we are struggling with and there's Islamophobia that we're struggling with. And part of this is being able to take a beat,

take a pause, give people grace

who are trying to understand this

and recognize that there is a common humanity here,

which the information environment we live in right now

does not really allow for.

And that's just something that we have the choice

to decide to just take a beat on that.

All right, so Biden's likely opponent in 2024, who is, you know... It's a hard turn.
He's... Yeah.
He's like a hard right. Well, you know what? He's focused like a laser on this issue.
He is as thoughtful as ever. And here's Donald Trump outside of the Manhattan courtroom where the civil fraud trial that could bring down his business empire is

taking place. This was him yesterday.
But this is what we go through because they want to keep me

here instead of Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and lots of other great places.

They want me to be here. Will you be back tomorrow by the end, Chad? Probably not.
Probably we're having a very big tournament, professional golf tournament at Durrell, so probably not. I'm stuck here.
I'll be at a golf tournament. He doesn't have to go.

He never needs to go.

So Trump is, of course, choosing to be in court.

He seems to think these appearances are helping him.

If you look at the polls, they're at least not hurting him.

His crushing lead in the Republican primary keeps growing.

And he's either tied or ahead of Joe Biden in nearly every recent national or swing state poll. Dan, what's going on? Answer, Dan.
Help us out. Let's go.
Hey, Dan, what the fuck? I was just sitting here thinking how I had dodged having to answer really tough questions about Israel and Palestine. Yeah, you got yours now.
So I get this one. Yeah, you got yours now.

So is the question you're asking me, why is Donald Trump becoming more appealing to swing

voters after getting indicted for 91 crimes, including racketeering, overthrowing an election,

and all these other things? Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. And like, I get the Republican primary.

Yeah, we know that. Yeah.
I'm going to give you two answers. One's more hopeful than the other.
The first is the gap between people who engage with politics in the overwhelming majority of Americans has never been greater than it is right now. There, I, this is going to come as a huge shock to the people in this room, but there are millions of Americans

who are going to wake up in March

and be like, holy shit,

Donald Trump is running for president?

That has not processed for most Americans yet.

Most Americans have not seen Donald Trump speak

since January 6, 2021. Maybe they've seen a picture of him at a courthouse.
They don't really know what the context is, but that is it. And so people are not engaged with the race.
And so the most optimistic glass half full take, the ones I'm most famous for, is the idea that when the race engages, the anti-MAGA majority in this country will reconstitute

itself. And there are reasons to believe that because the reason Joe Biden is losing to Trump

in these polls is that Joe Biden's getting about three quarters of the voters who voted for him in

2020, and Trump's getting about 85% of the people who voted for him in 2020. So that's the difference.

And these things could both be true at the same time. The more alarming thing to think about,

And it doesn't mean that Joe Biden is going to lose now, Trump's going to win, but it's something we have to think about, is I think most people who work in politics and think about politics and podcasts in politics don't fully understand the political environment we're currently in. It's a reason we keep getting everything wrong, right? It's why we thought Joe Biden was going to win by a lot, and he wins by a little.
It's why we thought Democrats would get destroyed in 2022, and we pick up a Senate seat. It's why we thought Donald Trump would suffer by getting a dead down in one time, and he goes up in the polls.
And there is this poll that Pew did last month that I cannot stop thinking about.

I know, you talk about it all the time. It is.

It just is.

And I think everyone who works in politics should read it because what it shows is the

electorate right now, the American public right now is more cynical, distrustful, and

angry than it has ever been in the history of the Pew poll.

Four percent of Americans think the political system is working well. And those people are absolute fucking freaks.
There are eight, the words most commonly associated, we ask people what they think about when they think about politics today, what words come to mind are angry and exhausted. Eight in 10 Americans think that politicians think, do not think about people like them.
85% of them think that the system doesn't work. You have the largest share of voters ever.
30% of Americans disapprove of both parties. There is something that is going on.
And if we really step back and we like get, there's a lot of things going on. Well, I mean, we keep asking why, when we get surprised by what has happened, we ask like, why didn't the old models work? And we think it's just going to happen the next time.
And there's something else happening. And it does, I think, if we internalize that fact, it does explain a little bit why this, people are so, let me put it this way.
Distrust of the federal government, it's the highest level ever. Distrust of the Supreme Court, disapproval of the Supreme Court, highest level ever, disapproval of Congress, highest level ever, disapproval of the media, highest level ever.
It explains a little bit why a series of indictments from government entities reported on by the media is not moving a lot of voters when it comes to Trump. And I think it does have real implications for how we as Democrats think about messaging.
Because, you know, we say all the time, like, this campaign is about saving democracy. And it is.
Like, ultimately, if Donald Trump wins, we know what is going to happen. But if we run as the people who are trying to preserve the political system that 96% of Americans don't think is working well, that's a real problem.
And I think that we're in this incredibly volatile environment, and that is lifting Donald Trump up. And we're going to have to find ways to take that into account when we think about our messaging.
Because if all of our campaign is to make him seem like someone who's not a politician, an outsider who doesn't get it, that's kind of how he won in 16, and it could happen again. I mean, I'm thinking about the point Simone made made earlier which is like and this is a challenge for anyone who's president right which is crises come up that whether they fit into your political message or not you just have to deal with because that's the job you know and you're there to to make a difference and protect america and joe biden's up there tonight and he's like, yeah, $100 billion for Ukraine and Israel and the border and Taiwan.
And first of all, is anyone, how many people are tuned into that speech and are going to get the message? Or are they going to get the takes about the speech from both the far right and anyone on the left who is critical, right? That's number one. And then number two, if they have consumed the speech, are they going to think, well, I still feel like I'm seeing all these headlines that inflation's coming down, but the prices still seem a little high and I still have student debt and my healthcare is kind of expensive.
And I'm like wondering, I'm seeing all this chaos in Washington and the Republicans seem like assholes, but I also am wondering who's going to speak to me, who's going to help me. And when you start thinking about that, you're like, oh yeah, how does Biden, who's got to deal with all these international challenges because they've fallen in his lap and he has no choice, how does he do that and still have a message that says, by the way, I know that you're still hurting out there but donald trump's going to be a disaster uh and i have a better plan here i mean i mean i think he has to say all of that but not only is donald trump going to be a disaster i mean you it is not a motivational message to say that guy sucks vote for me yeah because he sucks when candidates come on my show I'm always like, tell me why the people should vote for you without talking about or naming your opponent.
And that is, in fact, I think what Democrats up and down the ticket have to do. Every single member of the House of Representatives is up for re-election.
11 states are going to choose new governors on top of the presidential, on top of key Senate races, where I think the chamber, you know, control of the chamber is going to be decided. And look, I think that, look, the press, we're not always going to ask the questions that people really want to be asked.
You know, people go on TV, and you should be getting asked about the economy and the numbers when it's doing well, but it's not. It's so boring.
I know, the economy not sexy. Snooze alert.
But I think that Democrats should go, they should do the interviews, and also talk about the things that they also want to talk about, in addition to answering the questions. I also think there's a responsibility on the media apparatus to not just cover everything that is bad.
Yeah, I mean, not holding my breath on that one. To your point earlier, Simone, like, yeah, I have the same thought.
I keep hearing Democrats talk about how much we need a Speaker of the House, and then journalists will say why, and their answer is basically so we can shovel a bunch of money out the door to foreign countries. And listen, I worked on the NSC.
I'm like, I'm all on board with this spending, but the average person's like, what? And this is very funny, because I do feel like we're in a bit of a role reversal here, Dan. Because back in the day, Ben Rhodes and I would come into Dan's office and he'd be like, what the fuck are you two looking for? You know what I mean? Because Dan's view on this was like any minute wasted talking about what these nerds want to talk about.
It's like time we could be talking about something else. So normally I would think, yes, Joe Biden has to talk about Ukraine.
He has to talk about um what's happening in israel and gaza and of course like as president people turn on the tv they see scary things they want to know you're managing it that's fine but also you know joe biden just kind of like took two big guns out of the communications uh where do you keep guns holsters holsters uh you know like a let's talk about mine. That's where I keep mine.
I guess we're not winning in Montana. Arrows out of the quiver, Tommy.
Yeah, these are two big arrows out of the quiver. The Oval Office address in the 60 Minutes interview.
Tweets out of your draft folder. The tweets out of the draft folder.
And you know, the end of the 60 Minutes interview they're like, are you sure you want to run again? Yes. Well, what, what, why should people vote for you? And Biden's message is basically, what if we could have peace in the middle East and drive the Russians out of Ukraine? And like, again, things I really want, but I think to Simone's point is sort of leaving out this vast, uh, domestic list of priorities that I think most Americans are really focused on.
People are like, just peace in the Middle East mean I have cheaper gas?

Maybe. It does, yes.

Yes, it does.

The grocery store.

I mean, I think normally in this,

Tommy is right, I would always say

that every minute talking about foreign policy

was a minute lost.

We would never get back.

See what we got with someone in the Israel-Palestine section.

But I will say,

you have to talk about what everyone is thinking about.

And unlike a lot of things that happen in politics, particularly that happen in international relations, this one has broken through to the American people in a very powerful way as it should. And so doing this speech tonight is the right thing to do in part because I mean, some of this stuff, you know, you asked Simone about the domestic politics of it.
And I'm sure there are people who think about the domestic politics or are deeply concerned about all the things we've talked about tonight. But also, you know, what's even more concerning is that Biden's running for re-election in the middle of a giant proxy war in the Middle East.
And so if his take is my best way to prevent that from happening is to go to Israel and try to convince Bibi, and that's going to come with great risk, then that's what we do because that's the long game.

And so, you know,

so I think that that's all,

like all the politics of what you say is going to matter less

than what's actually happening.

And that's the stuff

you're trying to affect

both by going there

and then also giving this address

so that you can get the aid

that will hopefully,

hopefully prevent

the worst stuff from happening.

Yeah.

Okay.

So Dan wants more

foreign policy speeches

and Tommy wants to talk

about inflation more.

When we come back,

Virginia State Senate candidate, Jennifer Carroll Foy. Cadillacs.
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Joining us now is former Virginia House delegate,

a current state Senate candidate for Virginia's 33rd district,

and a fighter for all Virginia families,

and a longtime friend of the pod, Jennifer Carroll Foy. Thank you for being here.
Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
I imagine you have a lot on your plate these days. Oh, you know, just some campaigns to win, some kids to feed, you know, light stuff.

I think we first met in 2017.

We did a show in Richmond and we came down and we did a canvas event and we went canvassing for your campaign.

And did you have two small children at that time?

No, I was pregnant with two small children during my election in 2017. And one of the things I took from that visit, so this is 2017, Virginia, it is the first big election after Donald Trump has won.
And all of the anger and fear and frustration that people felt was being channeled into Virginia. And when we were on the ground in Virginia, I was shocked by how much energy and excitement and momentum there were volunteers from all over the country.
It honestly felt like a presidential election. Here we are all these years later.
How does it feel in Virginia right now? So I think that's right. In 2017, after Trump's election, there was a ubiquitous and collective feeling of what in the hell has happened.
And you saw in response a historic number of moms and social workers and teachers and people of color deciding to take the jump and run for office.

Even for me, as a lonely public defender, making no money, I decided to run for the House of Delegates while pregnant with twins, winning my seat right after I gave birth to my, or before I gave birth to my identical twin boys flipping a seat from red to blue. Because that was the feeling, that was the vibe, that was the momentum.
You had support coming in from all across the country because we knew what was at stake and we needed to save democracy after we had elected one of the most bigoted and competent men to be leader of the free world.

So now it just feels different. It feels different because people believe that Virginia is a blue state.

And I like to tell you. How does your Democratic governor feel about that? And I like to remind people that with a Republican governor and a Republican control House of Delegates, we are purple at best and we are operating at a slim margin.
Our House of Delegates, Republicans control 49 to 46. And we have a Senate Democratic blue wall 22 to 18.
And we have a Republican governor who is auditioning for his presidential bid. So he is, listen, you said it.
That right there. What she said.

What she said.

And he's made a promise to ban a... So he is.
Listen, you said it. That right there.
What she said. What she said.

And he's made a promise to ban abortion throughout Virginia. And let's be clear, whether you call us blue, you call us purple, you do have to call us the last southern state without an abortion ban since Roe fell.
So the entire state ledger of Virginia is up for re-election November 7th, and there's a chance that in this purportedly blue state, Republicans could hold a trifecta. Help people who may not be following Virginia politics so closely understand what that would mean for the people of Virginia.
What a Republican trifecta would mean on the Virginia state level is that it would undo all of the amazing progress that Democrats have made. When Democrats got the majority, we went to work.
And we expanded Medicaid. We repealed the death penalty.
We passed Comets' gun safety legislation. We gave teacher pay increases.
What we needed to do, we did it. And that's why this is so important because the Republicans' playbook is just to undo all the great work that we have done.
So we have to acknowledge what's at stake. Abortion is on the ballot in Virginia.
Book banning is on the ballot in Virginia. And let's be clear that if Governor Youngkin flips the Senate, we will have all

these things happen and it will empower other purple states to believe it can happen in their state as well. So now we're all at risk.
We're all in danger. So it is so exceptionally important that we show this country what Virginia can do.
And I can say I'm excited that as a delegate, I was able to carry and pass the Equal Rights Amendment so we could finally enshrine women's equality into the United States Constitution. That is on the potential ballot.
When I tell you I'm excited to chief co-patient, the Reproductive Health Act, removing politically motivated and medically unnecessary restrictions on people's access to abortion. That's what we got done in Virginia.
So, again, we have an argument to make on the state level, but let's also look at the federal. Because when the Democrats had a slim majority in the House of Representatives, what do we get done? We passed the American Rescue Plan, providing transformational historic funds to help people navigate through COVID-19 and cut child poverty by 50 percent.
We passed the infrastructure bill, providing millions of dollars to repair our roads, bridges, our ports, right, in order to expand rural broadband. And now Republicans have a slim majority.
And what have they done? We have a budget crisis. We have a house with no leader.
So no legislative progress can be made because we have no elected speaker, which, by the way, is the first time it's ever happened in our country's history. We, in less than 30 days, will have another federal government shutdown.
So the choices are very clear. You're either for Democratic progress or Republican extreme dysfunction.
You mentioned this, but I think it's worth digging in a little bit. Virginia is the last safe haven for abortion access in the South.
Just talk a little about what it would mean for women all across this country, people all across this country, all throughout the South, if we lose this election and Republicans put in place their 15-week abortion ban, that they were one vote from passing last cycle. That's right.
So in Virginia, they try to ban abortion as recent as January. And the Republican governor is just three seats away from making it a reality.
And right now in Virginia, we're a safe haven. We are a destination for so many millions of pregnant people across the South to come and be able to have that right of self-determination and bodily autonomy to determine if, when, and how they will start a family.
And all of that is on the ballot and at risk if we don't take Virginia elections seriously. Because I like to think of Virginia as the bellwether.
If you care about what happens in this country, then you care about Virginia in our elections. Because it's not just about November 7th, 2023.
It is really about President Biden in 2024 and whether or not Trump takes back over this country, continues to have a national abortion ban. It's really about whether we lose the Democratic majority in the U.S.
Senate because Senator Tim Kaine is up in 2024 and we have to send America's dad back to D.C. to do all the good work that he is doing.
So in the 2021 gubernatorial elections, which when Governor Youngkin was elected, one of the biggest issues was parental control of education

and a bunch of trumped-up bullshit about critical race theory and all of that.

How is that issue playing in the race this time around?

So I always like to remind people that, you know,

there's two things you have to give Republicans credit for.

They are great at messaging, and they are strict adherents to it.

And I tell you, they're very creative. Every single year is something, whether it's sanctuary cities, it's critical race theory.
It is always something new and divisive that they use to jeer up their base. And it's usually vitriol and hate-filled and bigoted.
But at the end of the day, I can tell you that it works. And the challenge is that Republicans fall in line and Democrats fall in love.
And y'all know we got to date y'all. We got to take you out.
You know, you got to see us a couple times. We got to have multiple conversations.
And so that means it costs more. It's more time consuming and tedious, but we know that it's so important.
And so while Governor Youngkin has shown that attacking our schools, defunding education, trying to attempt book banning, and saying that critical race theory is being taught in our classroom was effective because that's how he won, we are now seeing what their playbook is, and it's so important that we don't fall victim to what they're saying.

We have to address it.

But remember that it's always about the fact that we're on the right side.

We're on the right side of history.

We're on the right side of progress.

And we have to make sure that we are on the right side when the day is done.

So the national narrative is that inflation in the economy are what are dragging on President Biden and Democrats approval ratings. Virginia has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country.
What are you hearing from voters as you're campaigning about the economy and what are you telling them? So what I'm hearing right now about the economy is that Virginia, I'll be honest with you, Democrats have set us up for a lot of success. We have, you know, I think an $8 billion surplus.
We are fighting to fund our schools, give teacher pay increases, shore up our mental health services. We're doing some great things, even though we don't have the trifecta.
But what I'm hearing on the doors, I'm going to be honest with you all, is about crime. This is the first time in any election I've ever heard strong Democrats saying that they are concerned for their safety.
And I can tell you, y'all, that as Democrats, we got to do better. We cannot secede that to the Republicans.
We got to get stronger messaging on how we're going to keep our communities safe. We cannot run away from that because it is real and I'm hearing about it.
And it's also abortion rights because that is also real. And never did I think that in 2023, I would be living in a country that feels like 1953, but that's where we are as well.
And lastly, because of the attacks on our schools, I'm hearing that our trans children need to be protected. Our teachers are being vilified and demonized.
There will be no book banning on our watch. And we have to make sure that we protect the most vulnerable amongst us at all costs.
Okay, before I let you go, I know that every single person in this theater tonight is going to be heading to Virginia at some point in the coming weeks. That's right.
To knock doors. 95 South.
So, if these people want to help your campaign, they want to help Democrats prevent their problems from getting this triumvirate and doing all this stuff, how can they help you and help other Democrats? Thank you for that question. It's all about me.
So at the end of the day, I'm excited to make an announcement that my campaign has donated over $150,000 to Virginia candidates up and down the ballot from Soil and Water to School Board to State Assembly, because that's how important this election is. And then I need all of you to take out your phones, go to jennifercarolfoy.com and find out how you can support some of our most competitive contested races, how you can give us your time, talent, and treasure

to ensure that the right thing happens and we protect democracy in Virginia because we

have to win at all costs.

Please give it up for Jennifer Carroll Foy.

Thank you for being here. All right.
Hi, everybody.

Hi.

All right, listen.

They said this day would never come.

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Oh, no, he didn't.

There are people who didn't believe we could write something longer than a tweet. We were among them.
John? Oh, we wrote a book. We wrote a book.
There it is. How to save America.
Democracy or else, how to save America in 10 easy steps. You'll get it.
I'll figure out the name of the book it it's the first time we've said it out loud it's a podcast but you write it down you put it on this stuff called popper it's Brown's book you should have seen us over these last months it was a a lot of work. I knew writing a book was hard.

Imagine writing it with him.

I am so late with my edits.

It was like being back in the White House again. And so angry when anyone moves a fucking comma.

Hey, it's a fantastic book. It's illustrated, so it'll go quickly.
It's funny. Basically, a lot of the stuff we've said on the podcast and a lot of advice that we've gotten from people much smarter than us, politicians, activists, organizers, appears in the book.
We're doing interviews with a lot of those people. Those will appear in the book too.
Big names we're not ready to say yet.

And the best part is

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Clap for that.

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We can't let them beat us on the New York Times bestseller list.

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Good causes. Alright.
That's it. Book announced.
Okay. Yeah.
Don't. Don't do that.
Don't do that. Alright.
On that note, please welcome to the stage a man who has done his part to get Washington insiders to stop talking for minutes at a time by stuffing their faces.

And by being a force for good, please welcome the chef and founder of the new Global Food

Institute at George Washington University, our friend Jose Andres. Come on.

All right.

Hola, hola. The man.

All right.

Hi, hi.

Hola, hola.

The man.

All right.

Okay.

Don't get too excited.

I'm not cooking tonight.

All right.

Well, now you've lost them.

Don't you boo him.

They're all living.

They're all living now. Bye.
I think I'm overdressed. You're not overdressed.
We had Fetterman. It's great.
That guy wears shorts to a wedding. It's actually ridiculous.
I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.
So you founded your nonprofit World Central Kitchen after the Haiti earthquake in 2010. World Central Kitchen is now the biggest food aid organization operating in Ukraine.
You recently said about your work there and what it's like to be there that you can be afraid and fearless at the same time. What did you mean by that? Well, listen, Ukraine, for me personally, has been a before and after.

And has been a before and after because, you know, I'm a cook that feeds a few.

Washington, D.C. was my home for the last 30 years.
Washington, D.C. is the place I met my beautiful wife, who gave me everything I am.
But I never imagined that I would be in a situation that used with the simple fact of trying to feed people, I will lose people. Walt Centra Kitchen lost six people in the simple act of feeding people.
Only because we have one person called Putin,

I will not use the name, President,

that decided the best action was to try to kill as many civilians, women, children, and elderly as possible.

And for me, this has been a life-changing event

because now in more ways than one,

I give meaning to life in ways I never thought I would

because it takes you to go through a process like this

Thank you. because now in more ways than one, I give meaning to life in ways I never thought I would,

because it takes you to go through a process like this to understand what you're here for.

What we're here for is to understand

that we will never change anything we see in the world

that is not right without taking risk, speaking up, and have boots on the ground. We can all clap every time everybody gives a speech.
But if that speech is not followed by people that really are on the ground making change happen, nothing will ever change. We lost six people.
And I wanted to pull out World Central Kitchen out of Ukraine. And the Ukrainians told me, Jose, we are here with you or without you.
But with World Central Kitchen, we will be better. We all need to take risk to make change happen.
At the end, you learn that life starts at the end of your comfort zone. It's good to have good times in the good times, but sometimes we all need to get to the edge of our comfort zone to make meaningful, real change.
I don't know if this answers the question you asked me,

but this is...

It worked for me.

All I have to say about that.

So, I was also just interested to hear,

because I think we hear a lot about the importance

of getting humanitarian aid to Gaza

and the obstacles to doing that

and what stands in the way of that happening.

You've actually been operating in Gaza.

You also have World Central Kitchen is also in Egypt, Jordan, and in Israel.

Can you just talk about what is happening right now and what you can do, what you want to do?

Well, many people know that I will be there by now, but me, I like to go in the moments that I really,

I believe I can make meaningful change.

But right now we are doing already meaningful change.

The first thing we did was going to Israel

because it was the right thing to do in the very early hours

after Hamas, the terrorist organization,

not the Palestinian people. Hamas, the terrorist organization, not the Palestinian people, Hamas, the terrorist organization, did an attack that should never happen.
And we were there next to restaurants and next to Israeli and Jewish people just doing what we do, supporting them, even they were organizing themselves very well. At the same time, many times before we've been in Gaza, we've been with an organization called Anera, who they do an amazing job.
You don't know who to support. Anera.org is a great organization.
And we're able to support them because American people like you support us. And if you see my tweet on Wolf Center Kitchen, you will see that we were delivering today fresh fruits and vegetables and water and other things.
Why? Because an area is already inside. And every time everybody asks me in emergencies, where do you get the food? They're like, well, from the food warehouses.
Obviously, the situation there is very terrible. But still, we have ways to be buying from farmers that they don't know who to buy.
But if you are able to buy from them, still they have tomatoes and eggplants and things you can sell. You can buy and you can give away.
And so the situation is dramatic. We have teams positioned right now in Najib, but we are, you need to understand the World Central Kitchen is the organization nobody sees coming.
We're unofficial. We don't partner with governments.
But we are in Najib because we are positioning ourselves behind the UN envoys to go in as soon as it's safe and we are able to go. Why are we in Jordan? Because Jordan has very good connections with all Palestine and Israel.
And we have good friendships with a lot of people in Jordan. And if we can, we're going to be sending things into Cisjordania from Jordan, but also using planes to ship to Egypt and and from there go inside, guys.
And we are obviously waiting in Israel to hopefully things become peaceful, where nobody is shooting at anybody, but nobody is killing anybody, where we believe in longer tables, where we all respect each other, give empathy to each other, give dignity to each other, and where weapons of destruction will never have ever again a place on earth. We keep fighting each other for things that sometimes doesn't make sense.
I'm sure many of you, I have friends that are obviously Catholics like me.

Good thing about Catholics, I go on Sunday and I ask for forgiveness and I'm clean again.

It's a great religion to have.

You got to go every week.

Jews go once a year.

But then, I have friends that are... You're paying retail.
I have friends that are Jewish. And I have friends that are Muslim.
And I have friends that are other religions. And when we are together, we are we the people.
Together, respecting each other, learning from each other. Let's all believe we can build a better world and learn from the mistakes that sometimes our leaders make on our behalf.
We need better people in leadership. And you know one thing? What we need is more women in leadership.
Why? Because nobody knows what is to be a mother and give birth.

And with that, I mean it seriously.

We keep losing people around the world

because I don't think men understand

the magic and the difficulty of giving birth to life.

Let's make sure we put people in the world

that believe that we need to be respecting every human life. That's the least we can be asking from every one of our leaders.
Last question, speaking of which, you've threatened to run for office before. You have.
And you just this week, you just put it out there. There was a representative named Andy Harris who represents a district in Maryland.
Oh, shit. And you said, you said, I love...
Come on, you need to clap for Andy Harris. Oh, my God, I love you.
You said, you said something, first of all, this is the most like you've ever sounded like a politician, that this district in Maryland is a place with great hardworking people. Then you said one day, you said one day I will run there just to unseat him.
What are you waiting for? Yeah. Come on, Jose.
Do it. I barely know how to cook.
You want me to run for Congress? They don't know how to cook either. Congressman Harris is a great guy.
I mean, he's a great guy. I mean, what can I say? I mean, I don't vote in...
Oh, yeah, I vote in Maryland, but I don't vote in his district. Listen to me.
We've got to work out the details, it seems.

But let me tell you.

I mean, let me tell you.

We run people all the time who aren't from where they say they are.

But you need to understand.

Congressman Harris, right?

I mean, I think he's Republican.

Yeah.

I know there's a lot of Republicans in the room.

And imagine, he is a congressman of a district that the main thing are blue crops. Blue crops and he is red.
Has to be hard. We should support him, send him to the psychologists or something.
It's not easy. He only cares about the crops once they're cooked and become red.
But you cannot have red without blue. That's the meaning of bipartisanship, but he doesn't get it.
Sounds like an announcement speech. I love this.
It's the guy that doesn't want immigrants, but then all the crop guys that they need people to clean the crap meat

don't have people to clean the crap meat because they're not immigrants in the country.

This guy is brilliant.

I mean, Steven Spielberg and Ron Howard and everybody should hire this guy. He will make the most funny movies in the history of my guy.
You want to support your crop industry in Maryland? Don't let the immigrants come in. Why? Because we don't have enough employees to pick up the crop.
That's crap. And that's the issue with him.
I'm sure he's a decent man. You've got to stop saying that part.
I'm sure he's a good husband, a good daughter, if you are a Republican. But he doesn't understand crap business.
Therefore, I'm not running for congressman because I don't have time but somebody should be running on the Maryland first district to unseat that congressman because the people of Maryland don't deserve him and that's all I have to say about that well fantastic and it was well said uh before Before we let you go, you've graciously agreed to play with us a very brief game. Simone and Dan are going to come back out to join us.
Because you are a world-renowned chef, we are going to do something disgusting. Here's what's going to happen.
We are going to rank together five TikTok food trends from fifth to first, from worst to best, from the one you would want the least to the one you'd be willing to eat. Okay.
You're going to have to choose which of these things is the one you'd want to eat the most. I am free to choose? Here's the twist.

They're blind rankings.

In other words,

we're going to show you one and you're going to have to rank it

from one to five,

but you don't know what's next.

You don't know.

If you give something five,

you don't know how much worse

what will follow will be.

Are you trying to undermine

my position with my people?

This is my city.

I'm in your team. I'm in your team.
Okay. You can take over at any time.
You can just tell, we can do whatever you want, but we're going to try this until you sell the stuff. All right.
Here we go. First up, cheesy ramen from Helm.
Plates our ramen noodle into the dish. And the last one here.
Let's start off with a little bit of matzah. Let's just cover the whole thing with cheddar.
Let's get these open. Scissors.
So sprinkle these packets all the way across. We're going to take our tomato sauce.
That's tomato sauce. All right, we can leave it there.
We can leave it there. Jose Andres, you're world-renowned for your inventiveness with food, your exploration of food.
One to five, one being the best or the worst. The best.
The best of the worst of the worst. I mean, it's like Congressman Jordan or...
Yes. So here's the thing.
That's right. So basically, we're giving you five of the worst things that you could ever make Speaker of the House.
And you're going to have to pick which of these is the best of the worst. So do you want me to do a slam dunk? I think Jordan, a speaker to be, Jordan is the worst guy called Jordan.
He'll never even be able to do a slam dunk. He's the first Jordan.

You'd put Jordan in this as like a five because you're like, there's no one worse than him.

So one is the best of the best

but you want me to rate the best

but this will be the, okay.

So I get it.

This is like politics people.

We never understand anything.

Here's the good news.

Vote for me because I'm gonna

be non

protecting your rights

and we know who those people are.

All right, all right, all right.

I'm going to need a number between one and five.

Really, at the end of the day,

that's all you'll have to do.

People of Washington, because we believe in democracy,

if you were me,

what would you vote? A one or a five? Three, yeah, do three. Bye bye, stop it! I see a lot of threes.
We suck at democracy! It's a three? I'm taking over. I'm going with a four.
Four! Four! Yeah, yeah, yeah! Four. Well, that's...
I go quicker next. There's optimism in that.
All right, so cheese ramen. Oh, this was cheese ramen? Oh, shit.
Let's see. Hold on.
Where is the cheese from? It's from Wisconsin? Or from... Or from California? Oh, this is getting complicated.
Jose, the cheese is from a fucking bag. Next clip.
Everybody's so creative. If you don't have time to stand up over the stove with all these different pots and pans to watch in the end? Just do a one-pot meal.
Get yourself

some tortilla shells. So it's a block of Velveeta.

You see that? That's a

big, big, big brown

raw. Put it right in the middle.

Jose, what I thought you'd appreciate about this is

I think this is inspired by you because this is a

deconstructed burrito.

Hold on. Who are you

rating? The TikToks or me?

You're not on. Listen, you're nowhere.
TikToks or me? You're not on.

Listen, you're nowhere.

We can't find you on this scale.

Oh, my God.

It's a lot of red sauce in this podcast.

I'm sorry.

So you're saying it's a little too southern.

I was expecting more blueberries.

More blueberries.

Okay, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. Okay, okay.
Okay, guys, what do you think this is? Better or worse? I mean, that's pretty. Oh, shit.
I don't know because the cheese ramen were bad. We didn't let her finish.
It didn't get better. I know you disagree with me,

but I am a centrist at heart.

I'm putting her at number three

because I'm giving myself room

to become a speaker of the house.

Good call.

Which, by the way,

you don't need to be American

to be a speaker of the house.

I thought the speaker analogy would help us.

Let's see what's next.

This is, oh, this is called

I'm sorry. I thought the speaker analogy would help us.
Let's see what's next. This is, oh, this is called leprechaun chicken.
Oh, no, is that chicken? And now we're just going to dredge it lightly in this seasoned flour here. And then straight into our buttermilk.
And then from the buttermilk, right down into those crumbs. It's sort of like a chicken hand.

Those Cheetos crumbs are going to create a nice,

I think it's going to get some sort of a crust.

And now we're going to skewer it.

Octopus chicken tender.

So it's sort of, oh, now the chicken hands

are getting deep-fried.

We're going to gently remove them from the oil, shake the excess off onto our plate here. All right, what do we have here? There's also a face that you get to dip it in.
We're gonna complete it. It's sort of a face.
The fuck? Do you see? It's like a little beard of chicken. Oh my God.
So this is festive. So this is festive.
All right. All right.
So it's a leprechaun. You see? See? By the way, this is called Chef's Club, which I think you're a member of.
You know one thing, guys? What y'all mean, Juan? I am sorry, but I didn't ask you for your opinion this time.

What do they mean one?

Oh, God, no. But you sound like a lobby right now.
I'm lobbying for it not to be one. That ain't the best.
And I follow your lobby, but let me tell you, if we serve this food in Congress, they will pass immigration reform. they will pass the farm bill that they will pass immigration reform.
They will pass the farm bill that... They will pass school lunches for every children.
And we will have some senators and congressmen will leave the country immediately to Mexican vacation after a hurricane. All right.
And again, and again. Again, Jose, it's a number one through five.
What I'm going to do is this, because still I need to give myself a norm. Yeah, I know.
And I'm following your guidance and your expertise. I'm going to give it a two.
I think that's fair. Tommy, how do you feel about that? You feel good about that? I respect the two, Chef.
You feel good about that two? Please, two. Two, two, two.
Pray for us, whatever religion you are, because what is about to come can be the end of America. All right, let's see what's next.
Oh, this is a... I have been dying to try this viral fruit roll-up ice cream situation.
You just take a fruit roll-up, put some ice cream in the middle, and then wrap it up. Within seconds, the fruit roll-up ice cream situation You just take a fruit roll-up

It's a roll-up in the middle and then wrap it up within seconds the fruit roll-up gets hard and crunchy and amazing

So this is a dish this is a dish

This is a dish

Could be a one could be a one. I mean

Listen every time I go to a hurricane

The best moment in my life, you know two three, three, four days later, when there is, stop it. Where there is destruction is one moment that the rainbow comes.
And that's a happy moment because it's like things began running and functioning better.

I like this one because it's been the shortest and the quickest.

I was afraid the rainbow meant you were going back to the leprechaun chicken.

Everybody can understand.

I'm going for one.

That's the right choice.

Who doesn't like fruit?

No one.

And a roll.

And an up.

And ice.

And cream.

I am creating the new political party.

Fruit roll up Ice Cream Party.

Okay, let's see what we go for number five because you didn't give me any option.

I think you'll see that you were very,

your strategy I think has paid off.

Let's see what's the final option.

It is counter nachos.

And we're just gonna completely get it all on the counter.

You want this really-

Yeah, that's right.

Wide.

Spread it around.

Watch what you can.

That's right, counter nachos.

Oh, really good, okay.

The thing you're gonna do,

I like to pour a lot of ground beef.

Just right right there.

I'm gonna pour black beans all in here.

Is that ground beef?

Yeah, just like that.

Yeah, that is all.

That beef look burnt.

This is why I don't participate in those potlucks at work.

Anything that you want to put in nachos? It's right here. We need a wall, people.
We need a wall. Donald Trump, where are you? It turns so quickly.
How did that end? How does this end? I'm just like, how does someone pick that up? With E. coli.
It ends with a trip to the urgent care.

You are not telling us the entire story. What is the ending? The ending is counter nachos.
It's counter nachos. You eat the nachos off the counter.
Have you never, as a chef, decided to use the counter? Yeah, when I do my manicure, but especially when I do my pedicure, that's what I do with my feet. Because the nachos and the cream and the cheese gives you this extra layer of silkiness to your nails, and they don't break.
I mean, they don't break. And it's very good to your hair.
When you have blonde hair and you do like this, you do nachos, cheese. Is that? Yeah.
It's a couple of guys on TV often in a couple of courts. It looks good.
That they do nachos. It's good for the skin.
Yeah, cheese. Yeah.
I can't believe this is where we're ending the show. That was the perfect spot.
So people counter nachos, I think, this is what's wrong with democracy. Because now they don't give me any other option.
What if I want to change my political views on the chicken hands? Well, that's and unfortunately, that's the system we have to do the best we can inside of Counter Nachos 5, Cheesy Ramen 4, Deconstructed Burrito in the style of jose andres i'm sorry i take that back that was a horrible thing to say i take it back i take it back three two chicken hands and number one with a bullet fruit roll-up ice cream which we would actually like support world central kitchen and their incredible work around the world Jose Andres, thank you so much. That's our show for tonight.
Thank you, John Fetterman. Thank you, Jennifer Carroll Foy.
Thank you, Jose Andres. And thank you, Simone Sanders.
And thank you, Washington, D.C. Go buy Democracy or Elf.
Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our producers are Olivia Martinez and David Toledo.
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