Risking Exposure in Congress

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Hi, I'm Isaac DeVer, and this is the picket, Politics from the Atlantic.

I'm still in my apartment in Washington, like many people, working from home, staying away from people as much as possible.

But I grew up in New York.

I started out covering politics in New York, and I have a view of what's going on there, and that we can all see what's going on there that's both personal and professional from having covered people like Andrew Cuomo and Bill de Blasio for years.

A lot of the fears that people have of what this could be are already in New York.

Just on Friday, the Javit Center, the huge convention center on the west side of Manhattan, was converted into a makeshift hospital with beds separated by curtains.

It's going to be manned by the military.

Some of the worst worst of it, though, has been in Elmhurst Hospital in Queens.

There was a New York Times story the other day that had a doctor calling it an apocalyptic situation with the medical staff already overwhelmed, under-resourced.

The person that represents Elmhurst Hospital and much of Queens is Grace Meng, Congresswoman from New York.

She, on Friday, flew back to DC for a couple of hours.

to vote on the $2 trillion coronavirus package.

Then she got on a plane back to New York that afternoon.

After she landed back in New York, I asked her to join me on a Zoom call to talk about what it was like to expose herself to the risk of the coronavirus for what turned out to be a procedural vote, which took about 12 seconds on the House floor, and what it is that she thinks people in Washington and a lot of places around the country aren't getting about what's happening there.

At that hospital and beyond, we talk about everything from the medical supply shortages to the effect of calling this the Chinese virus.

Take a listen.

Oh, hi, it's Free.

Hey, how are you?

Hey, how are you?

Oh, yeah, I did it.

I appreciate you doing this.

I can't believe what a crazy day you've had.

So,

but I want to get into it and then not keep you away from your kids any longer than Thomas Massey has kept you away from your kids.

Seriously.

Well, I got to skip homework today.

My gosh.

Well, can we start with this?

When you heard that you were going to have to go back to Washington to do this procedural vote,

what is your reaction to that when it happens?

Look, I was frustrated largely because of safety and health reasons.

I've been doing my best to stay at home because I have little kids and also I'm very close close with my maternal grandmother and so you know I've been pretty good about staying indoors

and so when I heard that I had to go back of course I was frustrated but you know what really keeps me grounded is thinking of all these different frontline workers who don't have the choice to you know make that decision and they are not doing it just for themselves but literally to save lives and help the country

and a a part of the reason why i went back was you know because we we needed a quorum and it is much easier for me as a new yorker to travel to washington versus my colleagues in you know washington state and california um some of whom tried to get here but flights the the red-eye flights were actually canceled

I have this weird experience of having been on a plane almost constantly for the last year and a half covering the presidential campaign, and I haven't been on one for a couple weeks.

What is it like at this point flying?

I think most people haven't been out there.

You tweeted a photo from your flight down to Washington where it looked like you were the only person on the plane.

Yeah, I mean, there were people in first class, but after me,

that was it.

I mean, there were a total of five people.

We were joking that we had our own private jet.

Yeah, I mean, even getting dropped off at LaGuardia, you know, usually it takes us 10 minutes to get from one end of the Terminal B to the other.

And today there were absolutely zero cars there.

And it's just, you know, being from New York, traveling through LaGuardia, it's a very strange feeling.

And then you get to Washington, you go to the House chamber

for this vote.

You guys are keeping a distance from each other.

There are people in the gallery.

What is going on in your head as that's happening?

Because I would just imagine that when you have this whole thing is brought on by congressman from Kentucky who was threatening to hold things up and it seemed like everybody walked into the chamber angry

yeah people you know I have a couple of different tech chains

going on and people are angry.

Republicans, my New York colleague Pete King, you saw on Twitter, he was angry.

It's just something that wasn't necessary, especially for a bill that was likely going to pass overwhelmingly anyway.

None of us are completely satisfied with the bill,

but we just thought that it was a very self-centered move that he made and he wasn't even successful at it.

You know, if you're going to cause trouble, like at least do it right.

Yeah, for all of it, it was about 12 seconds that he got at the microphone, tried to raise a point, and it was immediately voted down.

And that was it.

In terms of members, you know, going to the floor, I actually didn't know where to go this morning.

You know, I had one staffer who came to the office, and I didn't want to, I didn't think we should be in the same room together.

So I went towards the floor, but of course, all the rooms that we normally can sit in are blocked off correctly, as they should be.

And so I just went outside and I sat near where the cars are parked across from the steps.

And there are a few members there, and we sort of held our own, you know, office outdoors.

And it was beautiful, but

it was an interesting experience.

Did you worry when you got called back to Washington that you were going to be exposed in some ways to things?

I mean, you have three members of the house who, as of today, have said that they tested positive.

You have others who are self-quarantining worried about whether they're testing positive.

So far, it's just three.

Yeah,

I mean,

you got on a plane,

you went to Washington, you were in all these places out and about doing the things that we are told we should avoid doing.

And then in a chamber that even though you guys were keeping your distance from each other,

you don't know who else is in there, right?

Who doesn't know it?

Rand Paul, the senator from Kentucky, was walking around

the Senate for a week, apparently positive.

And then you get on another plane and go home to your kids.

Yeah.

I mean, that was probably my biggest concern and why I was frustrated because

didn't want to potentially get sick.

I tried to be careful, kept six feet away.

I had these little alcohol wipes, wipe down everything that I could think of on the airplane.

And then I sat outside until we had to go vote, pretty much.

So who knows?

But that's my job, and a lot of people have it a lot harder and more risky than I do.

We're going to take a quick break and be back with more with Grace Meng in just a moment.

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Do you think Congress is up to the task that is still ahead of it in dealing with this response?

I think we need to move at a faster pace and a a more efficient pace.

You know, we've got some good language in there and good pots of funding for our constituents.

But the reality is, you know, we have constituents every single day asking about unemployment, asking about being able to pay rent, pay mortgage.

You know, most people don't have enough every month, even when they have their job.

And so for the many people who have lost their job, there seems to be growing impatience about even the pace at which we pass this bill.

You know, they wanted this done days ago, and they didn't understand why it took us so long.

And most are okay, if you understand, but they're still very impatient and deservedly so.

Well, let's talk about your district a little bit.

Obviously, one of the epicenters of the outbreak is in your district.

What's going on?

I mean, I think that for the people who have seen some of the news coverage, they may have some picture of it, but not like what you're saying.

Today was a really difficult day emotionally for me because literally, as we were passing this legislation on the House floor, I got some calls from doctors and nurses who were at Elmhurst.

And these are not people that know me.

You know, they know a friend who knows me.

And they were, you know, I had someone start to break down and and cry on the phone with me.

And it was just really heartbreaking because, you know, he was saying like, oh, you know, we're scared every single day.

You know, we know we're going to die.

So, you know, that was really hard to hear.

What do you say to someone in that situation?

I mean, that's, I don't know.

I don't know what I would say.

You know, it's not the first time.

It's just getting more frequent.

I just try to make them feel like I'm there.

And all I know how to do right now is to

keep asking, you know, and it's frustrating because

usually it's not political.

And I don't want to treat this as political.

But usually you relay the needs of your local district to the executive and they try to get it done, even if it's slow.

But we are in the situation where it just feels like

even if they know, you know, I just, I feel like I just keep trying to cry and to talk about it.

And I'm even doing it on Twitter, which is not something that I'm necessarily used to.

That's not my style.

No, it's not.

I'm the type.

Yeah, like I'm the type to write letters behind the scenes and to try to work it out and you know, make everyone look good at the end of the day.

But I realize that that's not going to happen.

And I know the mayor's trying, I know the governor is trying, and everyone is super responsive.

We all talk almost every single day.

But the truth is, as much as they're doing, it's only meeting like 2% of the needs of Elmhurst Hospital, for example.

So we really need President Trump's administration to show leadership.

And today, when he signs the, you know, when he invokes for real the Production Act, you know, he can do that.

And he didn't need to wait a week or two to do that.

So why make people suffer?

Yeah, it seems like we are, but I mean, for the last couple of years, all we hear about is how divided we are and how partisan everything is.

But now the partisanship is about life and death situations.

Like literally people who are going to die because they don't have access to some of the resources because of some of the political fights that are going on.

Yeah, and I mean in the early briefings that we had maybe like two, three weeks ago, you know, Republicans and Democrats,

we had the same questions and I really appreciated that, you know, no one was trying to be extra harsh and no one was being extra kind out of, you know, political reasons.

And I really appreciated that.

And

a lot more could have been accomplished, you know, up front.

We were crying about masks three weeks ago when we were all in session, you know, at these unclassified briefings.

So

when you see that, when you see people saying like, you know, it's only a couple thousand people who are going to die, that must be so hard to wrap your head around when you're seeing the effect in your district, people in your district, hospitals in your district, doctors in your district that are being overwhelmed.

Yeah, I mean, I think today was partly hard for me because the last, you know, week or two weeks, I'm losing count of days that I've been hard.

I mean, I'm literally on the

phone all day.

And so I don't have time to necessarily think about it.

I'm just trying to collect information and then spit it back out to where it needs to go.

But today, as we were waiting around and I couldn't do my usual, you know, conference calls and stuff, you know, it kind of gave me pause and you know forced me to think like oh my gosh I didn't want to be here but I kept thinking about you know I guess because like every other colleague would ask me about Elmhurst and I'm just like oh my gosh you know they're on the front lines they they might not even be able to see their families and you know is what we're doing enough for them it was just I felt very helpless I think it's this weird thing where it's so

there's so much of the outbreak in New York and and so much of the rest of the country people are like well well, there's nothing going on here, just a couple of cases here.

And that in some ways is accentuating the divide.

Right.

Right.

Like, oh, that's New York, right?

And it's like, these are people.

They're Americans.

They're, you know, like the weird thing of,

well, it's a densely populated city or a population center.

Well, that just means that there are a lot of human beings around and they're going to

be sick and die.

Yeah.

I mean, we just, yes, we're 57 states and territories, but we can't think of it like this, right?

Like we don't have real borders in between our states.

And so when we were hearing what was happening in Washington, what I kept thinking was like, oh my gosh, we could be next.

I mean, I didn't think that we would be actually.

But I kept thinking, what is New York doing that Washington did incorrectly, right?

And so like you heard about inconsistent regulations and practices at nursing homes, for example.

And so we, you know, quickly reached out to our nursing homes.

And I'm not saying this is because of me, but I think because of what we saw in Washington, the New York state nursing homes, I think, so far have done a better job.

You know, like they are not letting some of my local ones, people are not allowed to go in or out.

They're not allowed to have visitors.

And they have protection for the employees who are working there and going in and out.

And so these are lessons that we can learn from states that come before us in this virus.

You represent a very diverse district.

You yourself are of Chinese descent.

There has been some question

about

how

use of the term Chinese virus by the president and by others has maybe threatened an uptick of racism towards Asian people.

Have you seen that?

Is that something that

You've been able to track by what's happening in your district?

So nothing personally has happened to me.

I mean, aside from the occasional Facebook comment calling me a communist, but that happened way before the coronavirus.

But I have heard a lot of stories.

My constituents, the ones that I've heard from, are really terrified.

I mean, they are having conversations with me about what do our hate crime laws look like?

What do we need to fix?

Should I buy a gun?

And what's heartbreaking is that these people, whether they are new in this country or second and third generation, they don't feel like like America can protect them.

You know, I was just talking to someone whose mother, elderly mother, even before the shelter-in-place rules, did not want to go to the supermarket anymore because people would, you know, shout out, you know, mean things to her and she didn't want to go through that anymore.

So she just had started having someone else do her grocery shopping for her.

And when you know that that's happening at the White House, you're a member of Congress.

You're also an Asian woman yourself.

What do you make of that?

How do you process that through?

It's been really disappointing.

I mean, my first experience with this term,

misuse of the term, was when Kevin McCarthy tweeted about it.

And I tweeted back at him, but more important to me was not the tweet, was when I approached him

on the House floor and I said, look, I just want to talk about my tweet.

Like, we're colleagues.

I don't want to just tweet at you.

And he just was not in the mood to listen to me explain how people are suffering because of language like that.

And that was just really disappointing that he didn't care that people were getting hurt.

Yeah, what does not in the mood mean?

I mean, he's the minority leader of the House of Representatives, right?

Yeah, I mean, I mean, at best, he was too busy, but, you know, he just like...

kept trying to walk away.

And this was when we were doing elbow bumps and I didn't feel like I could grab him.

So it was kind of awkward.

So I just kept following him for a few minutes.

And then, you know, he said to me, he was like, well, would you call out the New York Times or CNN for using that term?

And I said, yes, I would.

And I have.

And then he laughed and he says, well, at least you're a consistent person.

And he just walked away.

And I'm like, I'm not done.

It's nice to know that in the halls of Congress, the dialogue dialogue back and forth is always at a high standard.

Right, right.

I don't want to keep you for too much longer because you've got your kids to get to.

And I do want to just talk about that for a moment before I let you go.

You have two sons who, like every other kid in America, basically, and around the world, are out of school.

How are you juggling this, having a

overnight homeschool set up in your house?

Yeah,

gosh, I don't know how teachers do it.

I really don't.

I only have two.

It's been a challenge because obviously we're all under one roof.

My husband and I are trying to do as much work as we can, you know, through the computer.

But also, we are lucky that we are able to stay home for the most part.

Your husband, I am sure, is earning more than his keep at the moment.

I smell burnt food, so I gotta go.

All right.

All right.

I'll talk to you soon.

Thanks a lot.

All right.

Thanks.

Bye.

Bye.

That'll do it for this week of The Ticket, Politics from The Atlantic.

Thanks to Kevin Townsend for producing and editing this episode and to Catherine Wells, the executive producer for Atlantic Podcasts.

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