The Chaos of Blanket Pardons

Hello.

Hey, this is actually Hannah Rosen. I'm calling on my son's phone.
Hannah! How are you? You sound happy. I am.
I just got done bawling. Oh my gosh.
Bawling, as in crying, hard. I think everything just came out.
I was just holding it in for the last, how many years? That was Marie Jonatakis, whose husband Taylor was just pardoned by President Donald Trump. He'd been sentenced to over seven years for what he did at the Capitol on January 6th.
Now, he's coming home. This is Radio Atlantic.
I'm Hannah Rosen. A few hours into his second term, Trump pardoned more than 1,500 people who were charged in connection with the attack on the Capitol on January 6, 2021.
Some had been charged with serious felonies, like assaulting police officers and seditious conspiracy. Others were charged with misdemeanors, like trespassing and disorderly conduct.
I've gotten to know a lot of January Sixers over the last couple of years so I know how these prosecutions have upended their lives and I know that for a lot of them the pardons have restored their sense of justice for them this week feels like the world is set right again and as I checked in with them this week and hung out outside the D.C. jail,

mostly, I just saw the chasm more clearly.

How one person's order restored is another person's lawless abandon.

I know this is going to sound crazy, but I have just really felt like Trump will do what he says he's going to do. And so ever since that, I was like, well, if Taylor gets pardoned, it will be the first day.
Three weeks ago, when her world was still in chaos, Marie Jonatakis bought a one-way ticket home for Taylor. Trump had mentioned that he might pardon all the January Sixers, but you could never be sure.
Politicians don't usually do what they say, her daughter told her. And for a family whose only working parent had been in jail for more than a year, an airline ticket is a luxury.
But Marie had watched the video over and over of Trump telling an NBC reporter that he would pardon the J-6ers on day one of taking office. I'm going to look at everything.
We're going to look at individual cases, yeah. But I'm going to be acting very quickly.
Within your first 100 days, first day? First day. First day? Yeah, I'm looking for the first day.
You're going to issue these pardons. And then, on day one, the world flipped.
Yes, sir. First, we have a list of pardons and commutations relating to events that occurred on January 6th, 2021.
Okay. And how many people is this? I think this order will apply to approximately 1,500 people, sir.
So this is January 6th. These are the hostages.
Approximately 1,500 for a pardon. Yes.
Full pardon. On Monday night, just before midnight, Marie finally picked Taylor up from prison, and she sent me a picture.
They sat side by side, smiling, like a late Christmas card photo. Marie hasn't sat side by side with her husband since he was taken into custody just before Christmas 2023.
I asked her if she thought his transition home would be rocky, and she said no, it'll be seamless. Taylor has written each of their five children a letter a week from prison, and he sometimes reads them books over the phone.
In her mind, family harmony will be quickly restored, and so will the rightness of all things. I mean, this started with January 6th, four years ago and we were the scam of the earth.
We were domestic terrorists. We were people that you were supposed to be afraid of.
Every time Trump had anything with criminal charges or anything like that, he really has been our hope for anything that would ever mean a pardon for us and so a lot of us feel like it was one miracle after another like and people don't look to trump like they really people in the movement on the chats when i'm on and stuff like that don't look to him as like a savior but i think a lot people, almost everyone has, like, a faith, like a faith in God, a faith in Jesus. And I do hear a lot of, like, you know, for us, it's a miracle.
There is a whole other way that these pardons could have rolled out. A little more than a week before inauguration, Vice President J.D.
Vance made it clear to Fox News that he wasn't expecting blanket pardons. If you committed violence on that day, obviously you shouldn't be pardoned.
And there's a little bit of a gray area there, but we're very much committed to seeing the equal administration of law. And there are a lot of people...
During the transition, I spoke with Republican lawyers who imagined there might be some kind of review board, like maybe a Justice Department committee that would evaluate cases such as Taylor's. Taylor was not among the several hundred convicted solely of misdemeanors, such as trespassing or disorderly conduct.
But also, he was not among the small handful convicted of seditious conspiracy. His assault charge hung on the fact that he was yelling into his bullhorn, urging a crowd to push a barricade into a row of cops, all captured on video.
One foot! One, two, three, go! One foot! Woo-hoo! And under the J.D. Vance scenario,

there would have been qualified lawyers debating in a room

about degrees of assault and what length of sentence they merit.

But instead, Trump chose to go with a blanket pardon,

which sounds uncomplicated, but actually brings maximum chaos. Tuesday night, I was walking down my own street past a house that I know well.
It's a kind of safe house for January Sixers. Mickey Withoff lives there.
She's the mother of Ashley Babbitt, who was killed at the Capitol that day. So does Nicole Reffitt, whose husband Guy was sentenced to over seven years for bringing a gun to the Capitol.
Occasionally, a young January 6er named Brandon Fellows stays there too. My partner Lauren Ober and I got to know the people in that house last year when we made an Atlantic podcast about it called We Live Here Now.
I've walked by their house hundreds of times. But when I walked past the house on Tuesday in freezing weather, I saw Brandon outside wearing an ice jacket as in Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
This is his version of a sartorial troll. Oh, so what's going on? I guess I don't even know the basics of what's going on.
Last I heard was from Jen Baker. We were out to lunch with Stuart Rhodes, breakfast with Stuart Rhodes today.
He's here? Yes, but we've all been up, and he's taken a nap real quick. Uh-huh.
We just got back, but, um... Is he staying here? I froze, and not from the cold.
Stuart Rhodes, the guy with the eye patch who founded the Oath Keepers. He, for years, recruited and cultivated an armed militia to resist government tyranny.
His estranged ex-wife recently said she fears that she and their kids are on his, quote, kill list.

Rhodes' attorneys have said that the idea that his family's in danger is unfounded.

Before Trump's commutation, he was serving an 18-year sentence for seditious conspiracy,

one of the longest of all the January Sixers.

Now, Stuart Rhodes was taking a nap down the block from my house. More on that after the break.
While Rhodes was napping in her house, Nicole Reffet was outside, being interviewed by a Dutch news crew.

Her family is notorious because her son, Jackson, turned in his father to the FBI.

Someone adapted the trial transcript into an excellent play called Fatherland.

Anyway, this week, her husband Guy was about to get out of prison.

But unlike Marie Jonatakis, Nicole seemed a little unsettled about the pardons. How do you guys feel about the blanket pardon? You know, I was never a fan of that.
I guess he thought it was the quickest way, pull the band-aid off. I was more in favor of commutations and then let's look at everything because not only did people do bad things that day uh but there were some charges that were absolutely wielded like a weapon against

people and those things also need to be looked at because you know i don't want anyone to have

to go through this and and that's my biggest concern what do you mean concern like i don't

know how to think about the blanket part in either nicole i'm trying to think what's the difference between this and if it gone a different way like what does it mean that it's a blanket have you because now all of the people

are going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be

going to be going to be going to be going to be going to be going to be going to be concern. Like, I don't know how to think about the blanket pardon either, Nicole.
I'm trying to think what's the difference between this and if it'd gone a different way. Like, what does it mean that it's a blanket? Have you guys talked about that? All charges are gone.
Yeah. You know, and I'm a law and order gal, really.
And so not all charges should be gone. People did really bad things that day.
In many people's minds, Nicole's husband, Guy, was one of the people who did really bad things that day. And he did get a fair sentence.
Guy brought a gun to the Capitol, although he didn't enter the building or use it. I never expected him not to have something.
You know, like I figured he'd be charged with something, you know, because it was so significant. But it was just so over the top to me, all of the charges.
And that has always been my biggest issue. Justice for all J6! Justice for all J6! As of Wednesday, only eight of the 22 people held at the D.C.
jail had been released. But outside the jail had turned into gathering plays for people released from all

over the country. Camera crews stood around from Sweden, Japan, Norway, broadcasting interviews

with the newly freed. And when Bob Marley's Redemption song came on the speakers, the

crowd belted it was awesome. You know, like he said himself, you know, God saved him to save America, and I believe that's true.
And then he turned around and saved us last night and restored us to our freedom. I mean, I'm not 100% restored yet.
I'll still wait for a pardon. But it's so wonderful to be out of those bars.
And that's Rhodes' one big complaint, that he was given a commutation instead of a pardon. A commutation can erase a sentence, but it does not restore all your rights, such as the right to buy guns.
He told the interviewer he was applying for a pardon. He said, I think everyone deserves a pardon, without any exception.
It's about presumption of innocence. No one got a fair trial.
It's impossible to get a fair trial here if you're a Trump supporter. And so you don't have an unbiased jury, an impartial jury.
You don't have an impartial judge. You don't have a jury that's going to hold the government to its standard beyond reasonable doubt.
It's not going to happen. So if you have no chance of a fair trial, then you should be presumed innocent.

That's put back in your natural state, which is an innocent free human being. So that's Rhodes' version of history.
They were sham trials. It was actually a day of peace.
It's a revision of history that Trump and his allies are likely to try and push and push for the next four years. House Speaker Mike Johnson has already formed a select subcommittee on January 6th to, quote, continue our efforts to uncover the full truth that is owed to the American people.
But for a whole crew of other people involved in January 6th, these pardons represent a reversal of justice. January 6th did not require delicate forensics.
It has to be one of the most well-documented crimes in modern history. There are tens of thousands of hours of video showing rioters beating up police with whatever tools are at hand.

At least five people died for reasons that are in some way related to the insurrection.

Some 140 police officers were injured, and many could never work again.

On Wednesday, retired officer Michael Fanone had choice words for Rhodes,

which he expressed live on CNN.

Yeah, I mean, this is what I would say to Stuart Rhodes.

Go f*** yourself.

Okay.

You're a liar.

We didn't obviously get to beep that word out,

but obviously...

Fanone said he's worried for his safety

and that of his family.

The judge who sentenced Taylor Jonatakis, Judge Royce Lamberth, wrote a letter in connection with the sentencing. He wrote, political violence rots republics.
Therefore, January 6th must not become a precedent for further violence against political opponents or governmental institutions. Lamberth is 81.
His wife died a few months ago. He had a handful of new January 6th cases on his docket, but of course they've disappeared.
In that sentencing letter, he continued, this is not normal. We tried to reach him to talk about the pardons, by the way, but he wasn't ready to talk about them yet.
And we'll continue to give him that voice. My husband's being processed out of Oklahoma right now.
Can't wait to see that man. He will be here in D.C.
tomorrow. And you know what? We're getting freedom, baby.
That's right. We're getting freedom.
We are getting freedom. And that's absolutely right.
At the Tuesday night rally, Nicole got a call from Guy. He was out on the road headed towards the airport.
He's in the car. He's in the car.
He's in a car. In a car.

Stuart Rhodes told the crowd that he was headed back to California this week. As for Marie and Taylor, they fly home on Thursday.
Marie told me the kids were going to make dinner. This episode of Radio Atlantic

was produced by Janae West

and Kevin Townsend.

It was edited by Claudina Bade,

engineered by Rob Smersiak,

and fact-checked by Steph Hayes.

Claudina Bade is the executive producer

of Atlantic Audio,

and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor.

I'm Hannah Rosen. Thank you for listening.