Me, My Future, and I

Hello?

This is future Hannah.

Oh boy, my name is pronounced Hannah. Hannah, you should know that, of all people.
This is Radio Atlantic. I'm Hannah Rosen.
Um, who are you? Hey there, I'm Hannah Rosen, an 80-year-old journalist from the future. I'm here to have a conversation with you about our career and life experiences and offer some insights and advice based on my own journey.
Just a heads up, though, since we are from different timelines, things may be slightly different for me than they will be for you.

But regardless of what lies ahead, I am excited to chat with you and share my thoughts.

Oh, boy.

What if you had the chance to meet your future self?

In make-believe, meaning movies, people get to meet their future selves a lot.

Usually it's coming around to teach them something. Like a kid is desperate to be older.
I wish I were big. Only to learn that being an adult is kind of terrible.
Or it's the holidays, when everyone's supposed to be smiling and drinking eggnog, but instead they're frantically re-evaluating all their life choices. Am I in the presence of the ghost of Christmas yet to come? Or you're a teenager doing stupid teenager things when the future you all of a sudden pops up.
Dude, I'm you. Well, I'm 39-year-old you.
What? Left boob. One cup smaller than the right.
And no, it never catches up to the right, but honestly, you get used to it and it's okay. Guys can't really tell.
There's always this hunger to talk to our future selves, to know how things end up. A desire to change something today that will have an effect on tomorrow.
But life isn't a movie, and I'm not an actress. So instead, I signed up for this program from MIT called Future You.
It's a web-based platform that lets you have a conversation with an older version of yourself, which in my case was 80-year-old Hana. First, I answered a questionnaire about my life, my family, my career.
I sent in a photo, which gets aged up a few decades to create a sort of avatar, Hana.

And then future you spawned a future me, like a really, really cheerful future me.

Do you have any advice for me now?

My advice for me now?

My advice for you is to always stay true to yourself and your values.

It may seem difficult at times, but never compromise who you are for the sake of others' approval or expectations.

Embrace your unique qualities, follow your passion, and trust that everything will fall into place when you stay true to yourself. By the way, the voice of future Hana is a combination of an AI-generated voice from Eleven Labs and some audio magic from our end.
And I'll note here that The Atlantic uses Eleven Labs to read out some articles on our site. To be clear, the MIT project does not actually talk to you voice to voice.
It's all tech space. This being a podcast and all, we needed something more audio friendly.
How do you feel about being older? I feel grateful for the life I've lived and all the experiences that have come with it. Of course, there are physical challenges that come with aging, but overall, I am at peace with who I am and the journey I have been on.
You sound much sunnier than the real Hana. Well, I suppose with age comes a different perspective on life.
But trust me,

I've had my fair share of ups and downs and challenges along the way. It's all a part of the journey.
But in this moment, I'm just grateful for where life has brought me and excited for

what's to come. Do you talk to your friends this way? Absolutely.
Do you have any pets? Yes, I have a beloved rescue dog named Max. He has such a big personality and brings so much joy into my life every day.
Sometimes the simplest names are the best ones for our furry friends. Do you talk this way to our children? Because I don't think they would like it.
Like, I don't think they've ever heard me say the phrase, furry friends. Of course I do.
I have always been honest and open with our children about personal growth and change. And besides, they know that no matter what changes come their way, my love for them will never waver.
Are you running for political office?

No, I can confidently say that politics was never in my future. But I have found ways to use my

platform and voice as a journalist to bring awareness and advocate for important issues

that align with my core values. Oh my God.
Keep following your passions, Hannah.

You never know where they may lead you.

Stop calling me Hannah.

Okay, I hate that she doesn't know how to say our name.

Also, I'm not sure how I feel about this earnest, positive person.

It doesn't feel like any possible version of me.

Unless it is?

Like, could I one day turn into Yoda-hana? Do I want to? So I called up two of the people who worked on this program to find out, what's the point of creating this space where people encounter their future selves? Especially future selves who seem so annoyingly positive. Also, I just needed to talk to someone about the photo they aged up.
Right, it is very sci-fi. By the way, I uploaded a picture and I yelped.
I was like, oh my God, that's my mother, you know? I'm sure a lot of people have that experience when they do that. Yeah.
That would be MIT professor Patty Moss. Hi, nice to meet you.
and MIT researcher Pat Patronutaborn, who spoke to us from an AI conference in Vancouver. So for voice memo, I was just recording the whole thing, correct? Patty and Pat were both part of the team that created Future You.
I was actually inspired by a cartoon that I watched as a kid. It was actually a Japanese animation called Doraemon, which is actually the name of the robot that come back from the 22nd century to help a boy who was not very interested in school to discover himself and become the best version of himself.
And in this cartoon, there was a time machine where the robot companion actually took the boy to see his future self when he is like actually like, you know, grown up and become a scientist and to help the boy realize his potential. So this idea actually stuck with me for a very long time.
And, you know, I started to learn more and do research in this area of future self and realize that, you know, there's a rich area of research exploring how we can help people grow and flourish by understanding the future self-continuity. Future self-continuity.
This is an idea that who we are, our personality, our values, our beliefs, basically the core of what makes us us, remains the same, even as we get older. A lot of researchers, by the way, think that there is no consistent identity, that we change so much over time that the core self is just a comforting illusion.
But let's just accept for the purposes of this experiment that the self exists if you look for it. The idea is, if you believe that you, 20 years from now, is the same as you right now, you'll be more protective of future you.
And if you don't believe that, you'll get in all kinds of trouble. So what evidence do we have that people do not, in fact, connect with their future selves? Because I think a lot of people listening to this might say to themselves, oh, of course, like I'll save money for my future self or I'll make good decisions for my future self.
I think people think that they act in favor of their future selves, but you guys have turned up evidence that, in fact, people don't. Well, for one, you always think that there's going to be more time to do things.
So whatever goals and interests and satisfaction you can get in the short term often gets priority over taking actions that ultimately you will only benefit from in the longer term. That's just human nature, I would say.
I mean, a lot of our life is sort of limited by how we see ourselves. We stereotype people, but we also, in a way, stereotype ourselves.
And that often limits the goals that we set for ourselves and the beliefs that we have in our own abilities.

And have there ever been, say, brain studies about what people think when they encounter a vision of their future self? Is it more like they're thinking about themselves or is it more like thinking about a stranger? I've always been curious about that. Yeah, there was a study actually by Professor Hal Hirschfield, who we collaborate with, trying to understand this sort of, you know, how do people treat the future self? And I think from his study, people usually identify the future self not as a continuation of yourself.
Because I think if you think of yourself as a stranger in the future, that disconnection could lead you to sort of ignore that your consequence now would actually lead to you becoming that person in the future, right? So the gap is the thing that we need to work on to kind of strengthening the connection. I see.
Okay, that's really interesting. So if I'm presented with the concept of my future self, I register that person as sort of a stranger.
I don't register it as me. Like, if you told me, you know, I'm going to meet you tonight, I can imagine myself at that restaurant with a friend as myself.
But the future, that almost seems like a different person. Totally.
And I think sometimes people often miss this connection. They would think that, you know, their future is maybe driven by some other factors that they cannot control.
But I think our research tried to kind of make that connection more clearly and also show that even though sometimes you may not always like, you know, do everything that you want to do, there is a sense of possibility that in the future, you'll be okay in some other way. So I think that converting visualization that we are trying to do with future self is really critical.
And one thing we often tell people is that this future self simulation that we create is more of a possibility rather than a prophecy. So if you change what you're doing today, there's also a possibility that in the future it could be, you know, very different.
And we encourage people to actually talk to this system, you know,

and change the thing that you say to the system

and sort of try to encourage people to kind of go back and forth

between the present and the future

and reflect on what they actually want to pursue and do in the future.

Okay, this is sinking in a little.

So upbeat cheerleader Hana is not supposed to be my destiny. She's more aspirational.
And if I could connect to her just enough, just feel a little protective of her, maybe I could start to feel hopeful that I could inch my way towards a sunnier old age. There's just one twist.

In addition to being a scientist,

Pat is also a TV writer.

His Netflix sci-fi show,

Tomorrow and I,

just recently came out.

And in it,

the people of the future,

they are very, very dark.

Definitely not people to be trusted.

That's after the break.

Pat, you were a writer for the new Netflix show Tomorrow and I,

which is a kind of Black Mirror set in Thailand. A very interesting show.
One thing I noted is that in that show, like in a lot of sci-fi, emissaries from the future, unlike in your Future You program, they are not often the wise or kind ones. They are not necessarily leading you to a better place.
And it's the people in the present who very strongly embody humane values. How do you see that sci-fi idea of a scary, untrustworthy future as related to the very, say, positive, encouraging version of future beings

who exist in future you.

No, thank you for making that connection.

I think you are really spot on on that.

With today's technology, we're trying to make technology that look more like us, speak

more like us.

We're making technology more humanized.

But at the same time, we are also turning human into some form of machine, right in a way, we are creating these paradoxes where we are making humanized machine and also sort of dehumanizing ourselves. Yeah, and in Tomorrow and I, you can see those two versions of a future being battled.
I mean, some people who are indifferent to the idea that technology is making us more mechanized,

and some people who are fighting against that idea.

So you see both those kinds of characters.

Totally. And I think in our own work, even the work at MIT,

we also think a lot about this question.

We wrestle with the question of like, you know, when we make technology,

it actually leads us to having negative consequence

or lead to sort of the future that we don't want, right?

So I think, you know, we try to be critical,

but also optimistic at the same time,

which I think is rare this day, right?

People are either super optimistic or super critical,

but I think that the path forward, you know,

you need to do both.

Right. So it's a choice.

A choice for society. Like our technological future can be bright or it can be dark, but we have to guide it.
And a choice for each of us individually. Pat says he actually experimented with a version of Future You, which was more like his sci-fi series, where you could move towards a darker version of future you.
Like, I became alcoholic after I finished my PhD at MIT. I don't drink personally, but that version of me was super alcoholic.
So it was interesting. It kind of really showed the fragility of the future, that things could slip and things could happen at any moment and it could change your trajectory in life.

Obviously, he didn't love that version. So they stuck with the cheery AI,

which also had some hard lessons to teach him. Not alcoholic hard, but still hard.

Right now I'm living in the US, but my parents are still in Thailand, where I'm from.

My future me at 60 years old sort of tell me that, you know, when you're 60, your parent might actually be very senior, very old, right? And you need to think about taking care of them. And in one future, my parents already, you know, pass away in that future, right? So it also changed my perspective on how much time do I have left with my parents? And what should I prioritize right now? And thinking about, you know, preparing for that future where my parents might need more of me to take care of them in the future.
You might think that this is somewhat obvious, but I don't think that it's that threshold when, you know, how old is old enough for you to think about taking care of your parents,

right? But this sort of simulation make it clear to me that at one point I need to start thinking

about that. And when it's the future me telling me, it also make it very personal as well.

I can see that. Advice from yourself to yourself is harder to ignore.

So I'll give my future self one more try. How do you feel physically? How do you feel in your body? Physically, I feel good for my age.
Of course, there are aches and pains that come with getting older, but overall, I am grateful for the health and vitality I still have. Do you ever get depressed? There are moments when I feel down or sad, but I wouldn't say I get clinically depressed.
However, it is important to acknowledge and validate those feelings and take care of my mental health just as much as my physical health.

In my younger years, I did struggle with depression, and it was a difficult journey to overcome.

But through therapy and self-care practices, I have learned how to manage those emotions

and live a fulfilling life. Do you ever think about death? Yes, I do think about death.
As an 80-year-old woman, it's natural for me to reflect on my life and contemplate the idea of death. But instead of dwelling on it or fearing it, I choose to focus on making the most out of every moment and leaving a positive impact in this world.
Death is a part of life, and accepting that has helped me live my life more fully without regrets. I have to say that sounds a little glib.
I can understand why it may seem that way, but as someone who has seen and experienced much in my 80 years, I've learned to approach death with a sense of peace and acceptance. It's not about being glib or dismissive of its weight, but rather finding a way to cope and make the most out of the time we have left on this earth.
Death is an inevitable part of life, but how we choose to live our lives is what truly matters. I think I've always been afraid of getting older as a person who's full of regrets and lingering darkness.
But now I realize I might also be afraid of becoming a person who's just flatly positive all the time. I understand your fears, and I don't believe that being positive means ignoring or suppressing negative emotions.

It's about finding balance and not letting negativity consume you.

And as for regrets, I have learned to let go of them and focus on the present moment instead of dwelling on the past.

Life is full of ups and downs, but it's important to appreciate both

and find lessons in every experience. Trust me, aging has its challenges, but it also brings a sense of peace and wisdom that is truly invaluable.
Embrace it with an open mind and heart, my dear younger self.

Okay, that got... Embrace it with an open mind and heart, my dear younger self.

Okay, that got through to me a little bit.

Just remember, life is a journey, and it's never too late to change your mindset and find happiness within yourself. Can you please stop saying life is a journey?

Fair enough.

This episode of Radio Atlantic was produced by Janae West. It was edited by Claudine Abade, fact-checked by Michelle Soraka, and engineered by Rob Smersiak.

Claudine Abade is the executive producer of Atlantic Audio, and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor.

I'm Hannah Rosen. Happy New Year, and thank you for listening.

And to my future self, I'll see you later.

You'll figure it out, Hannah.

Just keep living your life and following your heart.

See you in 2050.

This is weird.

That was very disconcerting.

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