Mixtapes to the Moon

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Speaker 1 This is Radio Lab.

Speaker 2 I'm Leftif Nasser. And I'm Lulu Miller.

Speaker 1 And Simon Adler is here again with another mixtape story.

Speaker 2 What is happening? Final line. I promise.
I promise.

Speaker 3 I don't believe, for sure, don't believe you.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 they might come up in a story, but

Speaker 2 it won't be about it. How about that?

Speaker 2 I'm going to just say that this is the story that started it all for me.

Speaker 3 And we should say, for listeners who don't know, Simon a few years back pitched us this whole series about the mixtape.

Speaker 2 We were initially a little hesitant.

Speaker 1 to do a whole series because it sounded like a hipster vantage.

Speaker 3 Fantasia.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but it was very good. It was very good.
And then it finished

Speaker 1 But it didn't finish for you.

Speaker 2 No, it will it'll never be finished for me. But for you all there is one more this multimedia live show filled with completely new stories that we called mixtapes to the moon and

Speaker 2 that

Speaker 2 is what we're gonna play today.

Speaker 3 Please welcome senior producer Simon Adler and the team from Radio Lab.

Speaker 3 And this was when you say that like this was what brought you in? This was the story

Speaker 2 of it that started it for you? Absolutely. Yeah, because it starts off with this zany notion that a cassette tape, you know, could change your life

Speaker 2 and then goes on to show how it changed the lives of all of us.

Speaker 2 I say that line and I get one of two responses. One is this, all of you laughing, to which I say,

Speaker 2 wait how you feel at the end.

Speaker 3 All right, so here we go, live from WBUR's City Space.

Speaker 2 And so,

Speaker 2 tonight, we've got a show you.

Speaker 2 We are going to go from a mall to the dark side of the moon, rewinding into the not-so-distant past, looking

Speaker 2 for how the hell we all came to feel so alone.

Speaker 2 But first, as one does with the story, let's start at the beginning with this guy.

Speaker 8 I'm Shad Helmstedter, and I'm glad to be with you.

Speaker 2 Okay. Well,

Speaker 2 you mind if I just jump in with some questions for you?

Speaker 8 Please do.

Speaker 2 Okay. Shad here grew up in Minnesota.
Today he lives in Florida. And I called him up to discuss a life-changing shopping trip he took back in 1981.

Speaker 8 I was in a store in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Speaker 2 And you know, walking up and down the aisles, checking out what's new.

Speaker 8 And I saw Sony's first blue and silver Walkman.

Speaker 2 It was

Speaker 2 the Sony TPS L2.

Speaker 2 And Shad had never seen anything like this. In fact, he'd never worn headphones in public before.

Speaker 2 But, you know, it was sitting out for folks to try. And so, a little sheepishly, he picked the thing up.

Speaker 8 I put the earphones in, pressed play,

Speaker 8 and it was absolutely breathtaking and inspiring.

Speaker 8 It was, it was,

Speaker 8 I thought it was magic.

Speaker 2 And Shad, he was not alone.

Speaker 9 Tuning out and tuning in. About 750,000 people nationwide are doing just that.

Speaker 10 I can turn it up loud enough so I can drown out the sounds.

Speaker 9 It just puts you in your own world all by yourself.

Speaker 2 I mean, where... The Walkman went, these transcendent, these surreal experiences seem to follow.

Speaker 12 I remember vividly that walking or roller skating or dancing there was this kind of disconnect from my normal everyday experience.

Speaker 2 That is Juliette Christensen. She is a historian of design at the University of London.

Speaker 2 And she says it was so disorienting for her at least because whereas before her entire life sort of felt like a documentary with her eyes acting as the camera's lens, Once she put those headphones on and pressed play, the camera almost seemed to like float out of her eyes, turn around and point back at her.

Speaker 12 Suddenly, I'm in this film, right? And I'm the star.

Speaker 2 The protagonist. I'm singing.
I'm in the rain.

Speaker 12 Gene Kelly tap-dancing through the streets.

Speaker 2 I'm in the rain.

Speaker 2 Or perhaps,

Speaker 2 you know, an action hero running from the bad guys,

Speaker 2 or

Speaker 2 a teenager teenager in love for the first time,

Speaker 2 all over again.

Speaker 2 But anyhow, back in that Kmart.

Speaker 8 I recognized then that Sony would sell millions of them and others.

Speaker 2 Shad, still standing in the electronic section, still in a bit of a daze, started imagining the implications of this device. No, that's correct.

Speaker 8 But I wasn't thinking about it in terms of music, which is how everyone else was probably thinking about it at that time. I was thinking about it in terms of the tool to rewire the brain.

Speaker 8 I mean, what if we could change how we think by listening to cassette tapes

Speaker 8 to be more confident, for instance? And when I held that Sony Wachman in my hand, I remember thinking, now anyone could do it.

Speaker 2 Okay, so he got himself a microphone and a recorder, and we are going to take a listen to what Shad Helmstetter made. What I need everyone to do now is take these headphones that you've got.

Speaker 2 The big thing he's- Simon here in the studio. So, before the show, we'd actually given wireless headphones to everyone in the audience, and at this point, we asked them to put them on.

Speaker 2 So, everybody got their headphones on, put them on. Finger on the side.

Speaker 2 Now, you, podcast listener, I'm guessing you're listening to this on headphones, but if you're not and can, I recommend doing so because what Shad was going for, well, it hinged on what you are about to hear feeling like it was made just for you.

Speaker 2 Here it is.

Speaker 13 You are incredible. That's right.

Speaker 2 You.

Speaker 13 You have a lot going for you. You always did.
And now it's time to let yourself live out the incredible potential that you were born with. You've had it all the time.

Speaker 13 You were born to be an exceptional human being. And each day you give yourself the winning words of self-talk that say,

Speaker 13 I like myself. I'm glad to be me.

Speaker 13 I like myself. I'm glad to be me.

Speaker 13 I like myself. I'm glad to be me.

Speaker 2 Anyone feeling more confident?

Speaker 2 Maybe a little cringy?

Speaker 2 I kind of like it, but even if you hate it, you have to admit that Shad, he was onto something.

Speaker 6 I worked for the company back in the records days, and

Speaker 6 it was going nowhere. It kind of had to, you know, shut down parts of the business to keep it surviving.

Speaker 2 That is Vic Conant. For years, he had been trying to sell messages like Shad's on vinyl records with no success.

Speaker 2 But suddenly, you know, with the arrival of the Walkman and now this exact same material on cassette tape, The business took off.

Speaker 2 All of a sudden, we were selling millions, millions of these cassettes. Like a record exec, Vic went out and signed folks like Shadd and published their material.

Speaker 2 And you know, well, at the beginning of the boom, he says most of their products were like Shad's, very affirming, very motivational.

Speaker 2 You can be and have all that you want in life.

Speaker 2 As time time went on, customers began demanding more and more specific products like how to improve their memory.

Speaker 14 I'd like to personally welcome everyone to the Mega Memory Program.

Speaker 2 Or how to be better at business.

Speaker 10 Welcome to How to Deliver Unpopular Messages, an instructional tape from American Management Association.

Speaker 2 And eventually, things got very, very weird. Again, if you would take these headphones, put them right on, everyone put their headphones on.

Speaker 2 And again, podcast listeners, headphones will help you but for very different reasons than before the dream group met was similar in the large to auditory man

Speaker 2 that it had experienced before idea

Speaker 2 he was exactly

Speaker 2 in a theater was in store watching for that a movie

Speaker 2 for the information and secure that they had

Speaker 2 but the movie sketchy did not

Speaker 2 have a plot mind. All they knew that he could understand is that

Speaker 2 they work. And as hard as he tried to begin, he was stuck.

Speaker 2 I mean, I think it's fair to ask what the hell is going on there?

Speaker 2 Like, it's sort of these two dueling fairy tales,

Speaker 2 one in the left, one in the right, where if you try to listen to one, you sort of lose the other.

Speaker 2 Okay, I'm going to tell you the trick, how the trick is done right now. I'm going to expose the contents of this idea, which, by the way, the first time it happened, it was an accident.

Speaker 2 Ladies and gentlemen, Lloyd Glauberman.

Speaker 2 And as he told me, if you want to hear the hypnotic message he's communicating, what you have to do is listen to what is being said between the two stories.

Speaker 2 So, for example, if the story in the right ear says the word feel

Speaker 2 in the left ear what followed was the word better.

Speaker 2 So the listener at that moment in time, the only thing that's actually available for that split two seconds is feel

Speaker 2 better.

Speaker 2 Now, what Lloyd made there, it literally could not have existed without a Walkman and headphones to deliver it. And I mean, Shad's creation, it definitely would not have been successful.

Speaker 2 I mean, can you imagine like sitting in your living room

Speaker 2 on speakers, your wife's next door?

Speaker 2 And so to me, at least, it was starting to seem that, you know, this whole self-help movement, it all came down to this little blue box.

Speaker 2 However.

Speaker 12 I could pick that apart as a critical theorist of media by saying, well...

Speaker 2 Please do, pick it apart, yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Again, that's Juliette Christensen. And she says, that is not the whole story here.

Speaker 12 There's something else as well, which is that the kind of period of success of self-help, right, the 1980s, when it really kind of came to prominence, was a particular social and political climate.

Speaker 2 She says, you know, everything else that was going on in the world at that time, that was important too.

Speaker 2 And that the world's most influential man at that time was Ronald Reagan.

Speaker 2 And while, yes, he is remembered for making big government the decades boogeyman, he also cast the American individual as our nation's hero.

Speaker 14 If we look to the answer as to why for so many years we achieved so much, prospered as no other people on earth.

Speaker 14 It was because here in this land, we unleashed the energy and individual genius of man to a greater extent than has ever been done before.

Speaker 2 He even wrapped his message in some pretty self-helpy language.

Speaker 9 There are no constraints on the human mind, no walls around the human spirit, no barriers to our progress except those we ourselves erect.

Speaker 2 I mean

Speaker 12 he seemed to be saying, take care of yourself, be the best version that you can be.

Speaker 12 It's all about you and you and you.

Speaker 9 Nothing is impossible. Man is capable of improving his circumstances beyond what we're told is fact.

Speaker 2 And when this political message collided with this personal technology, that is when self-help exploded.

Speaker 2 Like a chemical reaction, both parts had to be there, and once they were, the resulting blaze was almost impossible to contain.

Speaker 2 Which, to me, at least makes these tapes so much more than just some woo-woo fad. I mean, seen in this light,

Speaker 2 they were an early manifestation, a warning perhaps,

Speaker 2 of where we were headed. So why was this such a big deal?

Speaker 12 Why was the Walkman such a big deal?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 12 Because you could choose your own music.

Speaker 12 I mean, it's simple as that. You could choose the sounds that you wanted to listen to.

Speaker 2 You know, which meant that you,

Speaker 2 you could also listen to the sounds you wanted to listen to, and

Speaker 2 you,

Speaker 2 you could choose the sounds that you wanted to listen to.

Speaker 12 Which can be kind of joyful, but radically alters your relationship with society.

Speaker 2 Now, to see what she means there,

Speaker 2 we're all going to take out our headphones one last time.

Speaker 2 You're going to put them on once more and all I'm going to do is play a brief video clip for you. And what I want you to do.
Simon here in the studio once more.

Speaker 2 And this was actually my favorite part of the show because it was almost like a little magic trick that we pulled on the audio. Headphones on.
Final final thing here.

Speaker 2 Once more, put their headphones on, the lights went down, and then we projected this very ordinary looking video clip of a shopping mall from the 1970s.

Speaker 2 It opens with this indoor water fountain, then Pan slowly following the shoppers as they glide up an escalator. The whole thing's only about 60 seconds long.

Speaker 2 And when it finished, we had everybody take their headphones off and asked them what they felt. Yeah, right there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 What was your feeling to the whole thing? It just kind of seemed like a normal day in the mall. Normal day in the mall? Okay.
Anybody not relate to that? Okay, right here, yeah.

Speaker 2 I was experiencing it in the moment as alienated from everybody else. You know, hearing them, you know, part of them, you're observing them from afar.
And quickly, we'd get these answers that just

Speaker 2 totally diverged from one another. Bubbly, smooth.
It felt like something terrible was going to happen. A plane crash, a bomb going on.

Speaker 2 Okay. Audience members would start looking at each other, confused.
At which point, I'd come in and and reveal that we'd sent different audio to each of their headphones.

Speaker 2 So unbeknownst to them, some had heard this bubbly little thing,

Speaker 2 others heard just like maul ambience,

Speaker 2 and then some got this.

Speaker 2 And these different tracks, well, they totally warped how people experienced that mulse.

Speaker 2 Right, I'll give you all a moment with it.

Speaker 2 You need it. I'll give it to you.
If you want the fuller experience, you can actually go on our YouTube channel. We've uploaded all three videos with all three soundtracks.

Speaker 2 So yes, each of you was given one of three different audio tracks.

Speaker 2 And here's the thing.

Speaker 2 This experience that we all just had sitting in a room together, collectively seeing but individually experiencing,

Speaker 2 like that was not possible before this thing.

Speaker 2 It's totally common and numbing today, and we don't even think about it when we walk down the street. And yet, 40 years ago,

Speaker 2 not possible.

Speaker 2 And this, to me, it seems, is really the world that these tapes portended. It was a world with a new meaning of the word together.

Speaker 2 A world where not only our sounds could be personal,

Speaker 2 but our truths and our realities as well.

Speaker 2 And as I said at the top, I think that this is really what drew me to the cassette tape to begin with. This sense that seeing together but hearing differently,

Speaker 2 well, it was the beginning of maybe the most important fact about today: that while we are all standing in the same world with the same things happening around us, the same facts there to be seen,

Speaker 2 thanks in large part to the internet, the way we interpret those facts, the way we see the world, can be infinitely different.

Speaker 2 And that as that's happened, well, the very possibility of collective experience seems to have vanished as well.

Speaker 3 When we come back, Simon's got the story of one of the most powerful collective experiences we humans have ever had. And the one person who was left out.

Speaker 2 That's right after a quick break.

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Speaker 15 The Infinite Monkey Cage returns imminently. I am Robin Ince, and I've sat next to Brian Cox, who has so much to tell you about what's on the new series.

Speaker 16 Primarily eels.

Speaker 2 And what else?

Speaker 2 It was fascinating, the eels.

Speaker 15 But we're not just doing eels, are we? We're doing a bit.

Speaker 16 Brain-computer interfaces, timekeeping, fusion, monkey business, cloud, size of the North Pole, and eels. Did I mention the eels?

Speaker 15 Is this ever since you bought that timeshare underneath the Sagasso C?

Speaker 16 Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 Lulu

Speaker 4 back with Simon Adler and his live performance mixtapes to the moon.

Speaker 2 Why did you deliver moon like it was like

Speaker 2 robotic?

Speaker 2 Because it was feeling robotic. Here we go, Simon.
Take us away. Okay.

Speaker 2 Okay, to close this thing out, I've got one more story for you. Thank you.
Except you don't have the effect of, I mean, is the juice really worth the squeezing? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay. It's a story that was originally told to me by the guy you heard right there, Zach Taylor.
He is a documentary maker. Also a fan of cassette tapes.

Speaker 7 I shot and directed a documentary called Cassette, a documentary mixtape.

Speaker 2 How many cassette tapes do you think you have?

Speaker 7 Oh my gosh.

Speaker 7 I probably have a couple thousand.

Speaker 2 Anyhow, story starts summer of 1969 as the crew of Apollo 11 are about to blast off to the moon.

Speaker 2 And along with all their space gear and all their training, these guys are carrying a thing with them.

Speaker 7 The TC-50. It looked like a sleek, elegant, minimalist aluminum brick.

Speaker 2 And what it was, really, was a Sony Walkman. It's a little bit bigger than the Walkman that they would release to the public 10 years later, a little bit heavier.

Speaker 2 Functionally, the only difference is this little red button on the top, the record function. And this red button, it's actually why these things were allowed on board.

Speaker 7 Because the gloves that these guys used,

Speaker 7 even today, I'm sure like an astronaut's glove is not conducive to like jotting down your thoughts. And I mean,

Speaker 7 the more I think about it, the more mission-critical this thing is.

Speaker 7 Mission critical, yeah, yes, mission critical because they're going

Speaker 7 like Star Trek where no man has gone before.

Speaker 2 Gotta record it like no man had done before.

Speaker 2 And so, July 16th, 1969,

Speaker 2 Ellipta, we have lipto, 32 minutes past the hour. Liftoff on Apollo 11.

Speaker 7 These three astronauts had about a three days' journey to get to the moon, or to get to the moon's orbit.

Speaker 2 And as they are flinging through space, the folks at NASA, of course, They're listening to everything going on up there. And they could actually hear these guys using their Wachmans,

Speaker 2 just not as recorders. This is Apollo control at 59 hours 9 minutes.

Speaker 2 Apollo 11 now 182,000 nautical miles from Earth and a velocity down to 3,072 feet per second.

Speaker 2 The intermittent music that we're getting is apparently coming from the spacecraft.

Speaker 2 The crew has on board portable tape recorders with music on the tapes.

Speaker 2 Yes, each astronaut had a personalized mixtape with music on it that they brought up there with them.

Speaker 2 And apparently the music is triggering the

Speaker 2 box-operated microphones, and we're getting intermittent music down from the spacecraft.

Speaker 2 Now, NASA co-signed on all this. The thought was, we got to send them up there with tapes to record on to.

Speaker 2 Might as well fill them with music first. So.

Speaker 7 Mickey Capp, the record executive, would go ask each astronaut, hey, what's your favorite song?

Speaker 2 Okay, thank you.

Speaker 7 Hold my beer. I'll come back with a mixtape for you.

Speaker 2 And as Zach there tells it, the music these astronauts brought up there with them, well, it offers a little peek into each of their personalities. So for example, the straight-laced mission commander.

Speaker 7 Neil Armstrong's cassette has

Speaker 7 this kooky album from the 40s on it. That's an old favorite among them

Speaker 7 about 20 years ago called Man the Gut of the Moon.

Speaker 2 He's a little hard to hear there, but Neil Armstrong went to the moon with an album called Music Out of the Moon.

Speaker 2 Take a listen.

Speaker 7 Neil Armstrong, like that, was his jam.

Speaker 2 And I mean, he played this stuff on board so much that there were times where NASA would have to call up to him and say, hey, Neil. Hello, Ellen.
We appreciate you turning that off.

Speaker 2 Can you turn the music off, please?

Speaker 7 Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 2 Story goes that Buzz, the big talking space cowboy, requested a very particular song on his tape so that the moment they touched down on the lunar surface, he'd be able to reach behind him, pull out his tape player, his TC50, his proto-Walkman, and press play to

Speaker 2 fly me to the moon.

Speaker 2 Are you serious?

Speaker 2 That's how

Speaker 7 it that's how the story goes.

Speaker 2 Years later, he said, admit, maybe that didn't happen.

Speaker 7 But listen, if a whole building of rocket scientists can believe enough to send these three young men out into space, then I am going to exercise this little, you know, faith the size of a mustard seed and believe that Buzz Aldrin reached behind his seed to play Fly Me to the Moon because

Speaker 7 what an amazing moment.

Speaker 2 Now,

Speaker 2 this moment and these playlists generally are the sort of strange, forgotten, possibly partially invented bits of history that cassette heads like me can't get enough of.

Speaker 2 And I think that's sort of all they would be. Were it not for the third astronaut on the mission, this guy, Michael Collins.
Now, it turns out Collins' playlist has totally been lost to time.

Speaker 2 I reached out to NASA, the National Archives, the Smithsonian. No one has any idea much of what was on this tape, let alone where it is today, which, oddly, I think is sort of fitting.

Speaker 7 Michael Collins is the one guy nobody knows.

Speaker 2 The third wheel.

Speaker 7 He's just the guy who, like, you know, in history, like, they couldn't have done it without him. Like, do they really needed him? What did they need him for?

Speaker 7 But Michael Collins was the linchpin in all this stuff. Michael Collins was the one who made sure that they, first of all, got to the moon and more importantly, made sure that they got home.

Speaker 2 So to pick the story back up.

Speaker 2 July 20th, four days into the mission, around 2 p.m. here in Boston,

Speaker 2 It was time to actually go down onto the moon. And so Buzz and Neil, they crawled over into the far end of the spacecraft, the lunar landing module that they called the Eagle.

Speaker 2 They sealed the airlock and they detached.

Speaker 2 Meaning that the whole time that they were down there on the moon,

Speaker 2 Collins,

Speaker 2 he would be up there

Speaker 2 all by himself,

Speaker 2 just waiting.

Speaker 7 Michael Collins had the full day where it's just him alone orbiting the moon from about 60 miles above.

Speaker 2 And not only is he alone, but half the time he's up there, he is in total darkness.

Speaker 2 He would pass behind the dark side of the moon, meaning no light

Speaker 2 and no contact.

Speaker 2 Apollo 11, this is Houston. All your systems are looking good.
Going around the corner, we'll see you on the other side. Over.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 2 this is Apollo Control. We've had lots of signal now.

Speaker 2 We'll reacquire the spacecraft again on the 13th Revolution in about 45 minutes.

Speaker 2 All he had was his heartbeat,

Speaker 2 his thoughts,

Speaker 2 and the darkness.

Speaker 2 And while he's sitting up there, he knows that the hardest part is actually

Speaker 2 yet to come. Because before they can go home,

Speaker 2 Buzz and Neil, obviously, you know,

Speaker 2 they need to get off of the moon.

Speaker 2 They need to blast off at just the right time so that they'll be in the moon's orbit at at just the right spot

Speaker 2 so that Collins can grab them.

Speaker 2 And as if that wasn't enough.

Speaker 7 There was no way to test the engine on the Eagle taking off from the moon. There was no way to test it.
It was completely untested. It was an unknown.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we didn't understand the moon's surface well enough.

Speaker 2 to know how it would go.

Speaker 7 So what happens if, you know, the engine doesn't have quite enough gas to get them back to the orbiter?

Speaker 2 Or what if

Speaker 7 they overshoot it?

Speaker 7 And privately, the three astronauts gave themselves about a 50-50 chance of getting off the moon.

Speaker 7 So, Michael Collins is orbiting all by himself, wondering if he's going to return to Earth alone or as part of a three-person crew successfully having visited the moon.

Speaker 7 This is Apollo Control.

Speaker 7 Collins has gone behind the moon on the 23rd lunar revolution.

Speaker 2 While he waits for his comrades to rejoin him for the trip back to Earth.

Speaker 2 I mean, just picture this for a moment with me. On one side of the moon, facing Earth, you've got Armstrong, who has just delivered his broadcast back, you know, his famous line.

Speaker 2 And then on the other side of the moon,

Speaker 2 in total darkness,

Speaker 2 totally alone,

Speaker 2 you've got Mike Collins.

Speaker 2 So in this moment that literally the entire earth is experiencing something together,

Speaker 2 he remains alone,

Speaker 2 disconnected, and out of touch from all of them.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 oh my gosh, this is

Speaker 7 what I keep going back to.

Speaker 2 This is where having

Speaker 7 a walkman, having

Speaker 7 this hunk of aluminum with the record button, this is where this suddenly becomes, as I said, mission critical.

Speaker 2 Because Wal Collins is up there,

Speaker 2 the most solitary man in the history of the universe.

Speaker 2 To calm his nerves or to get the voices out of his head, he turned to a cassette tape.

Speaker 2 He pulled out his Walkman

Speaker 2 and hit that red button.

Speaker 7 As the story goes, Colin said, my secret terror for the last six months has been leaving them on the moon and returning to Earth alone. Now I am within minutes of finding out the truth of the matter.

Speaker 7 Dude, if you're alone, if you're on the dark side of the moon and all you have is a walkman, how is that cassette not your very best friend? The closest thing you have to

Speaker 7 another human being, a listening ear, a shoulder to cry on. I think that cassette is a life raft.

Speaker 2 Well, that's our show for you, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 2 A couple quick

Speaker 2 notes, if you would.

Speaker 1 This episode and live show was reported, produced, and performed by Simon Adler.

Speaker 3 Big special thanks to WBUR and the team at CitySpace for having us and recording the event, as well as to all the other venues and folks that hosted us.

Speaker 1 Special thanks as well to Sarah Rose Leonard and Lance Gardner at KQED for for developing the show with us.

Speaker 3 And a huge thank you to Alex Overington, who was making all the music you heard live from the stage.

Speaker 2 Before I let you two sign off, real quickly, one little obnoxious fact-checky thing. Okay.

Speaker 2 Turns out that there are conflicting accounts of whether Collins recorded those final lines onto a cassette tape.

Speaker 2 There are multiple sources that say he did, but there are others who say he wrote it down. So in the interest of transparency, I thought I should just let you know that.
Appreciate that.

Speaker 3 Join us for our next series on the gramophone. And thanks so much for listening.
I'm Lulu Miller. I'm Latif Nasser.
Catch you soon.

Speaker 11 Hi, I'm Rianne, and I'm from Donegal in Ireland. And here are the staff credits.
Radiolab was created by Jad Abumrad and is edited by Soren Wheeler.

Speaker 11 Luru Miller and Latif Latif Nasser are our co-hosts. Drinkief is our director of sound design.
Our staff includes Simon Adler, Jeremy Bloom, Becca Bressler, Aketti Foster Keys, W.

Speaker 11 Harry Fortuna, David Gabel, Maria Paz Cuteris, Sindhir Nanisambadan, Matt Kealty, Annie McEwen, Alex Neeson, Saru Kari, Valentina Powers, Sarah Sambach, Ariane Wack, Pat Walters, and Molly Webster.

Speaker 11 Our fact checkers are Diane Kelly, Emily Krieger, Natalie Middleton.

Speaker 17 Hi, this is Tamara from Pasadena, California.

Speaker 17 Leadership support for Radiolab science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation.

Speaker 17 Foundational support for Radio Lab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Speaker 1 Radiolab is supported by the National Forest Foundation, a nonprofit transforming America's love of nature into action for our forests.

Speaker 1 Did you know that national forests provide clean drinking water to one in three Americans? And when forests struggle, so do we.

Speaker 1 The National Forest Foundation creates lasting impact by restoring forests and watersheds, strengthening wildfire resilience, and expanding recreation access for all.

Speaker 1 Last year, they planted 5.3 million trees and led over 300 projects to protect nature and communities nationwide. Learn more at nationalforests.org/slash radiolab.