Overtime – Episode #621: Bill Barr, Andrew Sullivan, Rep. Nancy Mace

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Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO late night series, Real Time with Bill Maher.

Are we on overtime?

Overtime, we're doing it again.

First of all, thank you for coming back.

I know we were kind of on the bubble there.

You're like, let's see how it goes.

But as a Republican, I got to say, this is a rising star in your party.

I know it when I see it.

I've been doing this a long time.

Very good.

Okay.

All right.

So first question is for you.

What's the role of government in policing big tech?

Oh, well, that opens up a can of worms.

But you write about that in your book a lot.

You're all all over that.

Yeah, that's it.

Well, that's something people on both sides can agree about, I think, to a degree.

Oh, 100%.

That big tech is state power.

Too much power.

too little privacy.

So what is the role of government to police them?

Where do we, I mean, we often talk, hear about this thing.

Is it more like the post office?

Is it more like a utility company?

It's a newspaper.

What is it?

It's a little bit more like a utility.

And, you know, this is not typical of a Republican approach to things, but I don't think the antitrust laws are sufficient to deal with this problem because, as you say, it's not just market power, it's privacy and the control of speech, censorship.

And I think Congress is going to have to intervene and pass a statute that's targeted at those problems.

And

what's in the bill?

I mean, that's where the problem comes in, is like everybody thinks there needs something to be done, but

how do you take it?

I think they they have to scale up.

The Americans are usually for giving private companies free reign.

Personally, I think they have to, except in certain areas.

We've regulated media, cable companies, networks, telephones.

And you're all for that.

There are certain times where

it's necessary, I think.

And what I think we should do here is skinny down these companies by requiring them to divest some of the companies that they've acquired that could be competitors.

So Facebook would have to give up Instagram.

Instagram.

Google Google would have to give up YouTube.

I like a little pat there.

Here it is just let me know.

Here it's coming.

Well, I saw in the news that Facebook and Instagram are now going to allow you to show a bare breast, but only if it's of a gender or a non-binary person.

I can't make this shit up.

I can't.

I can't.

I can't even.

Right, okay.

And then my only thought is to ask Congress to be weighing in on this thing.

You've got members of Congress, some, not all, I'm a cut-techie myself, but that don't even know how to log into Zoom or to log into Facebook, that are going to be making the rules for these things.

They don't understand that it's a technology sometimes.

This is for you.

Trump will make his first 2024 campaign appearance, oh, in your home state of South Carolina.

Did you know this?

I will not be there, but.

Will you?

You will not be there.

I will not be there.

I got something else going on that day.

I don't know what it is.

You don't even know what day it is, then you already have something else going on.

You know, my thing is, I hope there's a big, deep, wide bench in 2024.

I want to see a vigorous primary.

I plan on hosting a bunch of candidate forums.

We're going to call it cocktails with the candidates for 2024.

I want to see a woman on the ticket.

I want to see a little more diversity on our side.

It's been 100 years since women got the right to vote.

Where are our Republican women, and they need to run for president?

Well,

I mean,

I guess that's my cue to say.

Is that a different thing?

Absolutely.

No, yeah,

you know, and I've got, I have two constituents, actually, Tim Scott and Nikki Haley, who the media both live in the first congressional district.

They want me to run for president.

It's exciting to see that in South Carolina.

But the last time anyone from the U.S.

House ran for president, that was Abraham Lincoln.

I have no Abe Lincoln.

I won't be running for that anytime soon.

But we have some exciting things happening in South Carolina.

Great leadership.

But you could definitely be on the ticket.

I mean, like if Ron DeSantis said, hey,

I might spontaneously call you.

First person that'd be a tough one.

Yeah, you should see me in church.

Well, that's not going to happen.

Okay.

But the question.

The question on the card was, will you endorse Trump if he's the Republican?

That's always the question when you have Republicans on here, right?

That's always the question.

Well, this is just somebody wrote this.

I didn't write this.

Every time.

I'm just the monkey.

No, no, that's what overtime is.

These are the people.

The people want to know this.

Yeah, I mean, here's.

See, it's so tough for you.

I get why that's not.

It's not, it's actually not tough.

I mean, I would love to see

a big field.

I want to see a diversity of opinions.

I have my own opinions on where the future of the country is.

We need a unifier.

We need someone who's going to bring in not just Republicans and conservatives, independent voters.

Independent voters.

That's not the question.

I know.

I know.

I'm getting there.

But independent voters want a home.

And if it's between Biden and anybody else, I'm with anybody else at the end of the day.

Including Trump.

That's where he is.

I mean, I never would have thought Joe Biden was that scary.

I mean, we were just talking before the show ended about stuff that we're not crazy about with Joe Biden, and he certainly has not stuck the landing on all of it.

But the fact that he, Joe Biden, who not that long ago was just seen as a kind of a clubby politician who everybody could get along with, he wasn't crazy out there in any way, that he is that much of a Dracula to you guys, that you would go for Donald Trump, for Donald Trump, who we already saw, is not just stupid but crazy.

He's somehow both.

And you're okay with that?

Biden!

Biden!

You talk about debt ceiling.

Biden won't even talk to Republicans about budget reform right now.

And we're having this debt ceiling vote without any budget reform.

That should be a bipartisan.

Yeah, the guy was writing love letters to the Korean dude.

And

it's not, it's apples and oranges.

You're talking about normal, and I'm saying, but this is outside of normal, and you've seen it.

It's not like it's new, or he's going to change when he gets in office.

We've had one term.

This is 2023.

It's not 2017.

It's a non-starter for me.

I mean, any party that nominates that man is not a party that should be in any sort of government position.

So my thought is, how do you, because

I don't think the left is capable of really taking on Trump.

So

how do we find someone in the Republican ranks to replace Trump?

We do have someone, DeSantis, who, you know, you could say all sorts of pluses and minuses, but if you want to get rid of Trump, you need to, you better place your bets on him.

Which is why I was surprised that you said you would combust if he asked you to be his vice president.

I think she just mentioned that.

It's only from the House.

It's been

happy for him.

Oh, you're happy.

I mean, all the things.

But we haven't had a member of the U.S.

House go into the White House as president or vice president since Abraham Lincoln.

I mean, it just doesn't happen.

I am happy with a president of a variety of people.

I love my job.

But I'm not happy with an insane,

vengeful, pathological, crazy person like Trump.

Period.

And

And we've already seen it.

It already happened.

He already tried it.

He already tried the coup,

the thing that is the safe word for you guys.

He already tried it.

Again, we've seen it.

And I know you can't say anything because when you're in the party, if you cross that line, then somehow you're toxic.

I already crossed that line.

He primaried me.

And a lot of lonely Republicans to survive a primary from Trump.

We'll move on.

All right, Andrew.

Bill was about to say something.

In a nutshell, I think when the parties are relatively close together or in the same ballpark or in the same universe,

character should count for much more than it does these days, and it's much easier to compromise.

And I think the dynamic that's governing here is that when you have a group that's way out to the left talking about fundamentally transforming the United States and so forth, it's hard to get compromised because people think they're making it a slippery slope and they're dealing with potential Armageddon.

And that's also why they say, look, if it comes between policy and character, in this case, I'll go with policy.

I mean, I think it's...

Look, I mean, you and I, Andrew, we both talk, you write about it, I talk about it, I hear it on your podcast.

There is something going on that is very

cultural revolution in China 1966 with the red guards on the left.

There just is.

The fear is that Biden is not in control of that.

It's in control of him.

Right.

Right.

And he doesn't even kind of realize what is going on.

That's my sense, anyway.

I like Joe Biden.

How do you dislike Joe Biden?

But also, it's that

he's speaking people in indivisible hands.

But that's right.

He's okay.

He's like,

he's a bit off.

Here we go.

And as much as we acknowledge that that is happening on the left, it is a slow and encroaching problem.

Whereas Trump seems to be sort of immediate and existential.

But let me ask the last question today.

Andrew, what should Republicans and Democrats be doing differently to appeal to millennials and Gen Z?

I think the Democrats have stopped trying to pander to them so much, because I think that suggests the party doesn't have its own ideas about the world.

Or that kids like being pandered to.

No,

they can be grown-ups.

If you tell them what you want to do, and they'll agree or disagree, but they'll do it.

But tell them that.

It's not cool.

The one thing they are good at, they're media savvy, and they can smell pandering.

When you do it in advertising, they hate it.

Yeah.

When they can smell that out, and I think they can smell that out.

And as you said earlier in the show, they want to be led.

They want somebody to, they know they're kids.

You know, when I was a kid, I didn't want to be like kids.

I wanted to be like Johnny Carson and James Bond.

You know?

Grown-ass men.

That's who I looked up to.

Yeah, no, I get that.

So what do they do?

So what do the parties do?

Well, I think the main problem that the Republicans have, apart from Trump, I think, is the successful branding of them by the Democrats as racist, homophobic, all the things that the younger generation is just over.

Right.

And they don't have, they haven't been able to present

a message of saying,

We believe that you should succeed in America regardless of your background or orientation

or race or color or creed, as opposed to the Democrats saying, we want you to succeed because you're black and gay.

Right.

So that's the way you want to contrast it.

Look,

we want a diverse, multicultural, multiracial future based upon individual rights, individual freedom,

free speech, and the chaos of American culture.

Let's go for it.

And

they're too scared right now, and they've been, I think, psyched out in thinking that they can't embrace the cause of diversity.

Is this a different kind of diversity they need to embrace?

Any thoughts on that for your party and the younger generation that doesn't seem to be too in love with your party?

We got to stop acting like alpha hotels.

I mean, you know, when Roe v.

Wade was overturned, we just turned our backs on women across the country.

And that's an issue.

I was raped at the age of 16.

And

something I've been very passionate about.

I'm pro-life, but I also see that we've got to find middle ground with America.

About 89% of people are in the middle, and we've got to protect women's rights and the right to life.

And there's a way to work together on many of these issues.

Cannabis is another one.

I don't know.

But cannabis is another issue.

I have a bill called the States Reform Act that

takes that issue and makes it in a way that's bipartisan that Republicans and Democrats can get on.

Republicans have been on the wrong side of cannabis.

We've been on the wrong side of Roe v.

Wade and birth control and gay marriage and all these issues that are important environmental issues.

What should the law be for Roe v.

Now that it's turned back to this really, I mean, we could write a law now, which is what most other countries do, am I right?

I think most European countries have laws which are very often to the right of where we were

than we were under robust Europe.

And we're talking about

Germany,

Denmark, yeah, pretty liberal countries.

But now that we could and probably will write a law about it, what should that law say?

Because when you say we can kind of split the difference, that's a hard thing to do.

It is very hard.

But it is an issue.

What does the law say?

That it's abortion is legal, but only to 12 weeks or 15 weeks or whatever.

Well, I think gestational limits should be part of that conversation.

In Europe, if you're even allowed to have one, it's 12 to 15 weeks on average.

So that would be where you would go to the next one.

Well, I mean, Democrats are at 24.

Democrats are at 24.

Republicans are in Congress are probably at 15.

You know, can you get to 20 and meet in the middle?

But both sides have to be willing to have some abortion legal.

Right, well, especially exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother, fetal abnormalities,

those kinds of things.

But before we even get there, we can't even pass legislation right now in Congress to give every woman access to birth control.

We can't even do that.

And if you can't even do that, that saves lives.

Fewer pregnancies mean fewer wants and needs to have abortions.

We have entire counties in South Carolina where we don't have a single OBGYN doctor.

I mean, and so, like, let's start there.

Let's start with birth control, making sure every woman has access.

This is a Republican point of view, you can support?

Yes.

Yes, you could.

Let the states make the rules

regarding these things.

I'm perfectly happy if they do.

I think the federal government needs to stay out of this stuff.

I never understood that something could be so high up on the moral totem pole as life or not life,

but let the states do it.

Well, because we thought it would be a good idea.

You know,

North Carolina wants to kill babies, that's certainly fine in North Carolina, but in South Carolina, we believe babies are.

That's the best way to get the best.

That was

my mind.

This was a number choice.

I know, but either it is or it isn't.

I mean, how can it be up to this state?

How could you cross the line of one state to another and have something so fundamental change?

It seems silly.

Well, that's where we are.

Well, there are a couple of different questions.

What do people personally believe?

What do I think is a conservative is a solution that will keep us

a stable, a durable solution that will be a stable solution in this country.

It has to conform.

Politics is not about affirming truth.

It's about finding a compromise between different opinions.

And that's always going to mean on some of these questions, like abortion, you're going to have to live in a country which is violating, other people are violating some core feelings and beliefs of yours.

So get used to it.

Learn to live with it.

Accept it.

You know,

I actually

believe

the thetis is human life,

but I do understand that it's inside someone else's body.

I do understand I don't like governments telling people what to do inside their body.

I also believe there are good faith disagreements, good faith disagreements about when a human life becomes a human person.

And so we have to accept that that'll be a problem.

The one thing I would say, add to this discussion, is,

and I'm the last person to talk about this.

I will never have anything to do with an abortion.

But

is the one exception I would make is late-term abortions, which are often used as a cudgel in this war.

And they say, oh, you want this, you want this, it's Barbara.

You know,

I think you make an exemption for women who find out very late in pregnancy that their baby or their child is incredibly, has terrible

deformative or developmental issues or is going to live like a few minutes or...

And the question is simply how do we humanely allow this child to die?

And to come, and that is, I mean, for the women involved, it's usually just horrifying.

And for the families, it's awful.

And to come in there and condemn people for making those decisions, I don't want to do that.

Great.

Okay.

Thank you very much, everybody.

Off to a new start.

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