296: One Night in Idaho: Friends Who Found Victims Speak Out & Bryan Kohberger’s True Motive

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Speaker 4 These kids were just having the best time of their lives.

Speaker 8 The biggest true crime case and trial in the nation.

Speaker 9 How could they not tell us what's going on?

Speaker 7 Nobody could have imagined what was about to happen.

Speaker 3 I just felt my heartbeat go crazy fast.

Speaker 12 I know that guy.

Speaker 13 Why these four kids?

Speaker 7 This can't be true.

Speaker 14 I mean, Moscow police out very little information.

Speaker 15 My mom said, it's over.

Speaker 15 And I said, no, mom,

Speaker 14 it's just the beginning.

Speaker 8 The suspect in that case has been offered and accepted a plea deal.

Speaker 4 Hey, True Crime Besties, welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Asleep.

Speaker 4 Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialously with me, your host, and your true crime BFF, Annie Elysi.

Speaker 4 Now, we have a very interesting episode today, and it's going to dive into everything Idaho 4-related, but also a lot of new information and a lot of new interviews and details that we have never heard before.

Speaker 4 Now, let me just give you a little bit of a rewind on this because about, gosh, when was it?

Speaker 4 About a month and a half ago, Amazon Prime reached out to me telling me that they were working on a new Idaho docuseries, not working on, I should say completed at that point.

Speaker 4 And they knew that I had been covering the case pretty extensively for the last several years.

Speaker 4 So they asked me if I wanted screeners of the episodes, which for those who are unfamiliar, screeners are basically they're links to watch the episodes or movies early before it's released.

Speaker 4 It's very carefully watermarked. You can't, you have to like sign in a million different ways to view it on your browser.
You have to have passwords, this, that, all of these things.

Speaker 4 But anyway, my point is they shared this docu series with me about six weeks ago. I watched it and it has a lot of new takeaways and a lot of new fresh perspectives into this case.

Speaker 4 We're hearing from people that we have never heard from before.

Speaker 4 We heard from Hunter, the friend of Xana, Ethan, Maddie, and and Kaylee's, who is the one who walked into the house that morning right before the 911 call was placed.

Speaker 4 We're hearing from Ethan's triplet brother and sister, Hunter and Maisie. We're hearing a lot from Maddie's mom and her stepfather.
I mean, just a lot of interviews.

Speaker 4 In addition to people personally connected with the victims and also the survivors, we hear from people who knew Brian personally. former classmates of his, former partners on assignments with him.

Speaker 4 And again, again, we just are getting this whole new lens into this case. So, the docuseries is called One Night in Idaho.
And today, I'm going to recap it for you.

Speaker 4 But instead of just recapping the docuseries as a whole, I also am going to be weaving in some of the information that we've already reviewed on this podcast in the past regarding the case, just to give you now this full comprehensive overview of the case.

Speaker 4 Now, for whatever reason, I am unclear why Kaylee

Speaker 4 family did not participate in this docuseries, which did surprise me because her father, Steve, has been pretty outspoken about this case in general, going on several different news anchors sites or reports, whatever you'd call it, broadcast.

Speaker 4 There's the word Annie. But

Speaker 4 for whatever reason, they chose not to participate in this one. But like I said, it is for the very first time hearing now what happened that morning.

Speaker 4 What happened when they opened the door to King Road Road before calling 911?

Speaker 4 We also are hearing from Dylan and Bethany's friends, Dylan and Bethany being the two survivors who were in that house that night.

Speaker 4 We're hearing from them not only what Dylan confided in them about the situation, but what they learned as all of this was unfolding right before their eyes.

Speaker 4 It really does give us a glimpse into this case like we have never seen or heard before. So we are going to jump right in.

Speaker 4 Now we all knew that Kaylee and Maddie had this very deep friendship, that they had been friends for years, but really hearing Maddie's mom speak about it in this, I think that she paints such a clearer picture of just how deep that friendship went because it was almost as though they were sisters.

Speaker 4 They had been best friends since the sixth grade. So with that, their families were also very close with one another.
And the girls were so close that they were inseparable.

Speaker 4 They even applied to the same colleges. They just did not want to be away from one another.

Speaker 4 So as you can imagine, when this horrific, horrific situation happened, the parents were double heartbroken, right?

Speaker 4 Because it was almost like they were losing a second daughter by extension because they were just so incredibly close.

Speaker 4 And I think that that was really important to hear because, again, when you hear firsthand from these families, from these friends, it just...

Speaker 4 it humanizes the victims in such a way that we don't often get to see almost behind the curtain who they really were, what they enjoy doing, seeing family videos, home videos, pictures, all sorts of things.

Speaker 4 So, of course, Maddie's mother and her stepfather were very emotional throughout this docuseries, but they shed a lot of light on who Maddie was and her friendship with Kaylee.

Speaker 4 Ethan's parents also spoke out.

Speaker 4 And what I thought was really interesting and very emotional as well is that they opened the docuseries with Ethan's parents talking about how they went to parents' weekend up in Idaho the weekend before these murders happened.

Speaker 4 And they specifically said how they were there just a week before the murders seeing all of their kids. Because remember, Ethan's a triplet.
He had a brother, Hunter, and a sister, Maisie.

Speaker 4 So they go up there for parents' weekend.

Speaker 4 And his mom says how when she and Ethan's father left that day, they looked at each other in the car and gave each other a literal high-five, just being like, We did it. We did it.
We raised our kids.

Speaker 4 They're good. They're happy.
They're going into adulthood. And like, we did it.

Speaker 4 Seven days later, Ethan was murdered. Now, let's start with the day of the discovery.
It was November 13th, 2022, at approximately 11:45 a.m.

Speaker 4 A friend of the group named Hunter, whose girlfriend was Emily, who was also a very close friend of Xana and Maddie's, was sleeping over at Emily's apartment.

Speaker 4 The two of them were together in a relationship. They received a phone call from Dylan, and so with that phone call, they went over to the King Road house.

Speaker 4 Dylan had called them and said something to the effect of, you know, something weird happened. I don't know if I was dreaming or not, but I'm really, really scared.

Speaker 4 Can you please come over and can you check out the house? She said, I'm in the basement right now with Bethany. I tried calling Xana a few times, but she hasn't responded.

Speaker 4 Can you guys please just come over here? I'm scared.

Speaker 7 Got a call.

Speaker 11 I didn't really think much of it.

Speaker 18 Dylan had called us. She and Zana, they were roommates.

Speaker 4 And she was like, Something weird happened last night.

Speaker 18 I don't really know if I was dreaming or not, but I'm really scared. Can you come check out the house? She was like, I'm in the basement with Bethany.

Speaker 18 She said, I called for Xana a few times and she hasn't responded, but will you just come over?

Speaker 23 I was like, haha, sure. Should I bring my pepper spray?

Speaker 18 Not thinking anything of it.

Speaker 4 So Emily, Hunter, and another friend of theirs head over to the house.

Speaker 4 And when they arrive, they see Dylan and Bethany coming out of the house and they are flustered, they're confused, and you could feel that something just wasn't right.

Speaker 22 So I started walking to Zana's house, and when

Speaker 19 we got there, Dylan and Bethany had exited the house.

Speaker 19 They frightened, just kind of like, uh,

Speaker 6 just hands on their mouth, like,

Speaker 18 I don't know what's going on type thing.

Speaker 4 When the girls finally walk into the house, Hunter was already inside. He had been a few steps before them.
They were a little bit behind.

Speaker 4 So he already was in the house walking around and kind of, I don't want to say investigating, but looking around. And when they walked in, they could feel that something was wrong immediately.

Speaker 4 Dylan and Bethany still weren't saying very much. They were just very confused.

Speaker 4 However, almost immediately upon entering, Hunter was like rushing them out, ushering them out of the house, saying, Get out, get out, you need to call 911.

Speaker 4 And when he told them that very specific instruction, you need to call 911, he didn't give a lot of detail. He told them, call 911 and let them know that there is an unconscious person.

Speaker 4 Now the girls did not know the extent of what was going on because in that moment Hunter had made the, in my opinion, very incredibly brave and courageous decision to shield them from the truth of what he saw, what he witnessed.

Speaker 4 He said, tell them it's somebody unconscious because he didn't want, he wanted to protect them. He didn't want them to spiral.

Speaker 29 Hunter was ahead of me and Emily. I set foot in the house and immediately was pushed out and Hunter was like, get out, somebody, call 911.

Speaker 30 Hunter had enough courage

Speaker 23 to tell them to call the police

Speaker 18 for not a real reason.

Speaker 21 He worded it very nicely.

Speaker 18 He said, tell them there's an unconscious person.

Speaker 31 Hunter saved all of us extreme trauma by

Speaker 6 not letting us know.

Speaker 18 anything.

Speaker 4 Now, I think now being armed with this information, it really does explain that chaotic 911 call. We all heard that 911 call when it was first released months ago, and it felt very chaotic.

Speaker 4 Everybody was passing the phone around, and nobody could say what really was happening. We heard somebody say that somebody was unconscious, but everybody was like, well, wouldn't you have seen blood?

Speaker 4 Wouldn't you know what was going on? Could they have been in shock? What was going on? And I think this really does set the foundation for that.

Speaker 4 Hunter had shielded them intentionally, so they didn't know what was going on. All they knew was that somebody was unconscious inside.

Speaker 4 And they know, though, of course, that whatever is going on, it's really bad. And so I think that really does explain the chaos of that call.

Speaker 26 Something's happening in our house. We don't know what.

Speaker 26 What is the address of the emergency?

Speaker 26 One month held.

Speaker 26 What is the rest of the the address?

Speaker 26 Oh, King's Road.

Speaker 26 Okay. And is that a house or an apartment? It's a house.
Can you repeat the address to make sure that I have it right?

Speaker 26 I'll talk to you guys. We're um we live at the white, so we're next to them.

Speaker 26 I need someone to repeat the address for verification. The the address, one one two two King Road.
And what's the phone number that you're calling from? What's your phone number?

Speaker 26 And tell me exactly what's going on.

Speaker 26 Um one of our one of the roommates has passed out and she was drunk last night and she's not waking up.

Speaker 26 Okay. Oh and they saw some man in their house last night.
Yay.

Speaker 26 Hi, this is. Can I argue with the patients? Okay, I need someone to keep the phone, stop passing it around.
Can I just tell you what happened pretty much? What is going on currently?

Speaker 26 Is someone passed out right now?

Speaker 26 I don't really know, but pretty much at 4 a.m.

Speaker 26 Okay, I need to know what's going on right now if someone has passed out. Can you find that out? Yeah, I'll come.
Come on, but let me go check.

Speaker 26 But we have to.

Speaker 26 She's so false,

Speaker 26 Okay, one moment, I'm getting help started that way.

Speaker 26 Okay, and how old is she?

Speaker 26 Um, she's twenty.

Speaker 26 Twenty, you said.

Speaker 26 Okay,

Speaker 26 Hello.

Speaker 26 Hello? Okay, I need someone to stop passing the phone around because I've talked to four different people.

Speaker 26 Sorry, they just gave me the phone. Is she breathing?

Speaker 26 Hello? Is she breathing?

Speaker 26 No.

Speaker 26 Okay.

Speaker 26 Talking to them, Shay. I can't talk to them.
They need you to talk to them.

Speaker 26 Hello.

Speaker 26 Okay.

Speaker 26 I have already sent the ambulance and law enforcement stay on the line. If there is a defibrillator available, send someone to get it now and tell me when you have it.

Speaker 26 Say that again?

Speaker 26 Set the police here right now. Okay.
If there is a defibrillator available, send someone to get it now and tell me when you have it.

Speaker 26 We don't have it.

Speaker 26 Yes, we have one. But are you talking to the officer? Yes.

Speaker 26 Okay, I'm going to let you go since he's there with you and can help you.

Speaker 26 Okay, thank you. Bye.
Okay.

Speaker 26 11.59.

Speaker 4 So while they're waiting for the authorities and paramedics to arrive, they also are all standing together outside trying to make sense of what's happening. What's going on? What's happening inside?

Speaker 4 Where are our friends? All they know in this moment is that something very bad happened.

Speaker 34 Dylan made a comment of,

Speaker 15 I can't believe somebody would do this.

Speaker 35 And

Speaker 15 I whispered to Emily,

Speaker 6 where's Xana?

Speaker 19 And she said,

Speaker 31 she's inside.

Speaker 7 And I think she's dead.

Speaker 18 I think all I wanted was to go wake Xana up.

Speaker 33 And I knew it wasn't going to happen.

Speaker 4 Now, meanwhile, as all of this is happening, around 12 o'clock, so about roughly 15 minutes later, Ethan's brother, Hunter, is being woken up by a fellow Frag brother saying, Hey, police are over at King Road House.

Speaker 4 They're at the King House. You need to wake up.
You need to wake up. But Hunter wasn't really spooked by this.
The King Road House had a lot of parties.

Speaker 4 He knew that there were a lot of noise complaints all the time. So he's like, okay, like, who cares? Whatever, you know, what else is new? But then he gets up and he starts going over to the house.

Speaker 4 And Hunter shares about what that moment was like when he found out.

Speaker 4 And I just want to mention before I play this clip, he does kind of laugh while he's speaking and recounting this, but it's almost this laugh of discomfort and disbelief, almost as though to this very day he still doesn't think that it's real.

Speaker 4 He doesn't remember, like in those moments, he didn't think that it was real.

Speaker 4 He also calls his sister, Maisie, the other triplet of the three of them, and he tells her that she needs to come over to Xana's house, although he does not give her specifics as to why.

Speaker 36 So I was walking over.

Speaker 37 to the King Road house.

Speaker 36 I saw a group of people sitting on the ground, and it's all the people I've been hanging out out with. And they all just had this look in their face when I walked up like

Speaker 7 the world had ended.

Speaker 29 I remember seeing Hunter

Speaker 29 walking up,

Speaker 29 and I remember us all turning and being like, Oh my God, like somebody's going to have to tell him what just happened.

Speaker 36 I'm like, What the hell's going on?

Speaker 37 Like, where's Ethan?

Speaker 36 They're like, Ethan's not here anymore.

Speaker 37 What do you mean, Ethan's not here anymore? I was like, Where'd he go?

Speaker 37 They're like, Your brother's dead.

Speaker 37 I was like, that can't be true.

Speaker 36 And then Hunter Johnson was like,

Speaker 37 I think Xana, Ethan, were murdered last night.

Speaker 36 Didn't even know how to respond to it because it's like so unreal that someone I had spent almost every minute of my life with,

Speaker 12 I don't even know.

Speaker 41 Just die.

Speaker 36 the first person I called was Maisie.

Speaker 42 Literally, all Hunter said was, You just need to come to Santa's.

Speaker 42 And I asked him why, and he was like, Just come.

Speaker 36 Don't ask any questions. Have someone drop you off.

Speaker 42 I remember sitting in the car

Speaker 4 feeling like

Speaker 33 feeling like something was wrong.

Speaker 7 is weird.

Speaker 4 Now, after realizing the severity of this, what's really going on, and being hit with all of this information, Hunter calls their mother and he keeps repeating to their mom over and over, they aren't here, Ethan's not here, Ethan's not here, to which his mom is just saying, Okay, well, go get him, like, go get him then.

Speaker 4 But he just could not say the words. All he could say is, he's not here.
To when finally, then he said, He's not on this earth anymore.

Speaker 44 Then it finally clicked, Oh my gosh, where's Kaylee and Maddie?

Speaker 6 Their phones are pinging in there.

Speaker 25 Their phones are inside that house.

Speaker 18 We didn't know if they were home. We didn't know if they were in there.
We didn't know anything.

Speaker 40 We couldn't get a hold of them.

Speaker 18 I was sitting next to Dylan, and she really wanted to find out where they were.

Speaker 18 We never went up there.

Speaker 4 Then suddenly, while all of these friends and siblings are kind of gathering out front of this house, trying to make sense of what's happening, they get told that Ethan and Xana have been found and that they are dead.

Speaker 4 But then in that moment, they realize very quickly that they had all been consumed with Xana and Ethan, with what happened to them.

Speaker 4 They take a moment then and stop and step back and say, well, what about Kaylee? What about Maddie? News, of course, spreads very fast.

Speaker 4 We're in the era of text messages, social media, all of these things. So These friends were also very close and people lived very close by, walking distance.

Speaker 4 So everybody's starting to learn about this information, but still not knowing the details.

Speaker 4 So Jake, Maddie's boyfriend, calls Maddie's mom and says, Hey, do you know what's happening right now in Moscow? There's been a homicide. There's been a homicide at Maddie's house and Xana's dead.

Speaker 4 Like, have you heard about what's going on? Do you know anything? So Maddie's mom and stepdad, they're like, what? What are you talking about?

Speaker 4 They jump in the car, they start driving to Moscow, trying to figure out and see what's going on, but they figured there must just be some sort of misunderstanding here. Surely there's not a homicide.

Speaker 4 Surely Xana's not dead. So they figure, you know, once we arrive to Moscow, everything will be fine.
We'll figure out what this miscommunication was and we'll take Maddie out to lunch.

Speaker 4 While we're there, you know, we already made the drive. Let's take her out to lunch and everything will be okay.

Speaker 4 But then, while they were on the drive to Moscow, Maddie's mom decides to call the police. And she says to them, Look, I know you can't tell me anything.

Speaker 4 I know you can't confirm anything or give me any details, but can you confirm if there is an active homicide investigation at 1122 King Road? To which the officer she spoke with confirms yes.

Speaker 4 But still, there was a little bit of a sense of, I don't know if you would say denial or hope, perhaps, because the entire drive they were thinking, God, this is so horrible. There's been a homicide.

Speaker 4 It's true. Xana is dead.
So we'll pick up Maddie. We'll pick up Kaylee since Kaylee stayed over there and we'll console them.
We'll be there for them.

Speaker 4 Not thinking that something had also happened to the girls.

Speaker 4 They thought more that the reason they weren't answering their phone calls was because they were attending to all of the chaos that was going on.

Speaker 4 So everything that was surrounding Xana, the possible homicide, all of the drama at the house. That's why they thought they weren't answering their phones.

Speaker 4 They never thought that it was because they were victims in this as well. Meanwhile, at 1 p.m., about an hour after that 911 call was made, a vandal alert goes out.

Speaker 4 And a vandal alert is basically kind of like an amber alert. It's like a push notification, but it goes out to all the students for for the campus.

Speaker 11 I saw the ambulances, cops.

Speaker 29 So the cops still not speaking to us. And then

Speaker 36 all of our phones go off, and there's an alert that says homicide on King Road. Everyone simultaneously just started bursting into tears.

Speaker 29 We all get the first vandal alert, which is like Amber Alert, but for just University of Idaho students investigating a homicide on King Road.

Speaker 31 They didn't say how many, it didn't say who.

Speaker 29 Homicide being investigated.

Speaker 4 Now, this alert, it made everyone fearful and still very unsure of what was happening, who was killed, who wasn't killed, what's going on.

Speaker 4 And even before they could think what was happening next, they get the next alert.

Speaker 34 We got another vandal alert.

Speaker 36 Four students found dead.

Speaker 7 Quadruple murder.

Speaker 21 And we look at the text and we're all like, what the f what because nobody had said anything to us that was before the cops even told us that maddie and kaylee had passed and that they were in there i don't even know if i looked at my phone or if somebody showed me

Speaker 29 but people they were like some of the girls started like yelling at the police guys i show my phone i go what the is this and he just looks at me he goes He like grabs my phone.

Speaker 29 He's like, I didn't even know they were sitting this. I'm so sorry.
And we were like, well, what does this mean? He was like, all four of them.

Speaker 4 So after hearing this, after hearing the confirmation that this was a quadruple homicide, they also start hearing details from Hunter, Hunter who had gone in earlier that morning.

Speaker 4 And he says that it did look like it was a malicious attack.

Speaker 4 He had shielded them this entire time from any of the details, but now that he was starting to kind of catch his breath and reality was setting in and the news was spreading, he was starting to share a little bit about what he saw, about what had happened.

Speaker 4 Yet the one thing that nobody could understand, the one thing that nobody could seem to grapple with was who could have done this?

Speaker 4 Their worst fears had come true. Four of their friends just murdered.
But how? By who?

Speaker 17 Why?

Speaker 4 As all of this is continuing to unfold, the police take the kids to the police station.

Speaker 4 Some kids drive there on their own, but the intention behind this was so that the police could start questioning them and clear them.

Speaker 4 It's not because any of the friends were under any sort of suspicion, but they wanted to just gather as much information as they could.

Speaker 4 And the students and friends were sharing all of that information. Maddie's mom also arrives around this time, and the police speak directly with her.

Speaker 24 I feel like the struggle getting to this point was: I can't do this.

Speaker 31 I just can't.

Speaker 24 But it's just not mentally healthy to waste time.

Speaker 24 Other than laughing about Maddie, talking about Maddie,

Speaker 24 that's really all we do.

Speaker 24 There is very little place in my heart for holding on to anger. That's not what you heal from.

Speaker 24 A year ago, I couldn't have spoken to you at all. I couldn't have articulated any of this.
And it's taken friends, family, time

Speaker 24 to slowly creep out of that really,

Speaker 24 really bad place. And it's also reminding myself, like, how

Speaker 24 would Maddie and Kaylee want to see me? Would they want to see me crying in my pajamas and can't get out of bed? Or they want to see me talking about them and how happy and how amazing they are.

Speaker 28 And that's a struggle.

Speaker 24 You never know how strong you are until strong is all you can be.

Speaker 4 This nightmare was now everyone's reality. The friends didn't want to go back to their houses that are near King Road.
The family was also in town from out of town or from neighboring cities.

Speaker 4 So all of them stayed at a hotel for the night. The family, the friends near King Road, everybody.

Speaker 4 Hunter and Emily, the couple, the best friends of Xana and Ethan, they went to bed incredibly scared, thinking that every single noise that they heard, just a twig breaking, a pin dropping, they thought that every noise they heard was them about to be attacked.

Speaker 4 They had been told, too, that this appeared to be targeted, so that left them confused. They had a very big group of friends.
Why were those friends targeted? Had they been stalked for months?

Speaker 4 Is that person still out there, still stalking them? Are they watching them? Why these four friends? Who is responsible for this?

Speaker 48 Six friends, one dinner, and then the bill.

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Speaker 4 What do you think makes the perfect snack?

Speaker 40 Hmm.

Speaker 5 It's got to be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

Speaker 4 Could you be more specific?

Speaker 7 When it's cravenient. Okay.

Speaker 5 Like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right now in the street at AM PM, or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at AM PM.

Speaker 7 I'm seeing a pattern here.

Speaker 9 Well, yeah, we're talking about what I crave.

Speaker 66 Which is anything from AM PM?

Speaker 5 What more could you want?

Speaker 63 Stop by AM P.M. where the snacks and drinks are perfectly cravable and convenient.
That's cravenience. AMPM, too much good stuff.

Speaker 4 So reality has set in at this point. Four of their friends, barbarically and brutally murdered.
Everybody is in complete disbelief. How, why, who.

Speaker 4 And then collectively, all of the friends start thinking about the day before the murders, before the discovery, trying to really piece it all together. Was somebody at the party?

Speaker 4 Did they make somebody mad? Was somebody watching them? They were almost looking to solve this or get answers to this among the friends and just figure it out, get to the bottom of it.

Speaker 4 So they go back in time a little bit. They go back to November 12th, trying to figure out what happened, who were they around, who could have been responsible for this.

Speaker 4 So on that day, they had had a party at the King Road house. It was game day.
It was a very big day in the town.

Speaker 4 Everybody was going to be drinking all day, partying all day, celebrating, and everybody was having fun.

Speaker 4 The roommates also were all partying, having fun together, and they were taking photos together, which now are those infamous photos we know of of from outside of the house where they're on each other's shoulders they're smiling they're laughing they're just having an amazing day an amazing time together so then ethan and xanna left the party and they go to the game the game day happens the fall formal happens parties were happening everything was just happening next to each other simultaneously just a very buzzed up busy day everyone ended up leaving around 9 p.m and then some of those people ended up going back to an after party at Sigma Chi.

Speaker 4 Ethan tried tried to get his sister Maisie to go out and come to the party at Sigma Chi with him, but she didn't want to. She was tired.
She was in for the night. She was going to sleep.

Speaker 4 So Xana and Ethan go to this party. They arrive around 9 p.m.
and then they leave the party around 1.40 a.m. and head back to King Road.

Speaker 4 Meanwhile, at 1 a.m., Kaylee and Maddie were out at the local bar called the Corner Club, just drinking, hanging out, having fun.

Speaker 4 So as the friends are all starting to piece this together, figuring out, you know, building the timeline, figuring out who was where, what they could have done, they kind of start thinking, you know, could someone have been at the party?

Speaker 4 Could somebody have been watching them at the corner club? Had they been being stalked all day and all night?

Speaker 4 Now, of course, as the friend group is trying to piece all the information together and figure this out, so is the public.

Speaker 4 And because of the lack of information from the police at this point, as you can imagine, rumors and speculation, it all started to run rampant. And rumors began spreading fast.

Speaker 4 Rumors like, because King Road was a party house, it also was a drug house. There were drugs going in and out of that house.

Speaker 4 People were dealing, people were using that, you know, these murders, it was all part of a drug deal gone wrong. People then also started saying, you know what, Ethan's a drug dealer.

Speaker 4 And all four of them overdosed on Ethan's drugs, just really,

Speaker 4 you know, fueling all sorts of rumors and things.

Speaker 4 But the problem with these theories and the problem with these rumors is that the friends who were closest to Kaylee, Maddie, Xana, and Ethan knew that nobody did any drugs.

Speaker 4 They knew that Ethan didn't deal drugs. Nobody was a dealer.
Nobody was doing hard drugs in that house. They drank, they had fun, they were kids.
So the friends knew: no, this is impossible.

Speaker 4 This theory doesn't check out. Move along to the next.
Meanwhile, reporters were also hounding everyone. They were showing up in person, they were calling, they were DMing just incessantly.

Speaker 4 Everybody was trying to get answers. And then, finally, some answers came because we had the first press conference.
Now, in this press conference, they confirm that it was, in fact, a homicide.

Speaker 4 And they also confirmed that the cause of death was stabbing.

Speaker 4 Now, this detail was new. It had been out there a little bit, but now it was being confirmed.

Speaker 4 And this made everybody realize these murders, they were much more personal because stabbing is extremely intimate. It is an up close and personal thing to do.

Speaker 4 It's not necessarily the weapon of choice for somebody who is killing randomly, not unless it's somebody who is fixated on knives and wants the personal feeling of a stabbing murder.

Speaker 4 So now everybody was learning this very disturbing and unsettling information. But really, that's all that the police were saying.

Speaker 4 So hearing this information now and mentally lining it up with the very bloody scene at the King Roadhouse, so much blood where it was like seeping out of the house almost.

Speaker 4 Remember seeing it there on the drywall, it became very unsettling.

Speaker 4 It felt like there's this complete psychopath out there and still on the loose, a psychopath who had been stalking these students or at least one of them who barbarically murdered all of them with a horrific knife and there was a complete bloodbath at the scene and now they're still on the loose.

Speaker 4 That is terrifying. Now at this same press conference, a lot of controversy started to build and it really started to, you know, first take flight.

Speaker 4 Because for the first time, we were told that the survivors were at the house when these murders occurred. But we also knew that the 911 call didn't come in until noon.

Speaker 4 So because of this, everybody was asking these questions of, well, why didn't these survivors and potential eyewitnesses call the police sooner? And it was a question that the police were not.

Speaker 4 prepared or willing to answer. So after living in fear for days and still not understanding what exactly happened or why it happened, happened, the autopsy results were released.

Speaker 23 We're just getting some breaking news in the case of those four college students who were murdered in Idaho.

Speaker 23 The autopsy report was just released and reveals that the killer likely used the same large knife to attack all four students.

Speaker 23 TBS spoke with the coroner who says the nature of the crime seems personal.

Speaker 30 There was a lot of blood.

Speaker 46 It was a very sad scene.

Speaker 18 Were the deceased all in close proximity to each other or were they in different rooms?

Speaker 24 I don't know that I can discuss that.

Speaker 4 Friends continued brainstorming with one another, trying to think of who could possibly have done this. They start scouring the internet too, trying to piece it together.

Speaker 4 And that's when the grub truck footage first took surface and took flight, which if you remember that footage, and even if you don't, let me explain it. It's basically the only food truck in Moscow.

Speaker 4 It's the only place really, or one of the only places where you can get late night food after the bar. It's a food truck.
It has all sorts of different options.

Speaker 4 But what's interesting about this food truck is that they live stream the whole thing. They live stream people as they're coming up and ordering, as they're making the food.

Speaker 4 So when people are going through this footage of the grub truck that night, they spot Kaylee and Maddie.

Speaker 4 right there on the footage ordering food after the corner club before returning to kingroad house and on that footage they also see somebody who appeared to be watching them who wildly in the media was was referred to as Hoodie Guy.

Speaker 4 And this footage goes viral. Everybody's wondering who was this guy.
He was there in the crowd, kind of watching them.

Speaker 4 When then, when the girls get their food and go out of the camera site, he follows a little bit after them in their same direction.

Speaker 4 So everybody starts thinking: was this a guy who had been at the corner club all night? Did he follow them to the food truck? Was he watching them? Did he then follow them to 1122 King Road?

Speaker 4 Even friends became suspicious of him. It just did not look good.
And as I'm sure you can imagine, the true crime community was covering this case extensively.

Speaker 4 And when I say some people arguably completely threw ethics away, I mean it because we now hear too that people in the community were so desperate for answers.

Speaker 4 It wasn't just reporters, it wasn't just internet sleuths, but people were taking it next level.

Speaker 4 So much so as they were dressing up and posing as students, going into these dorm rooms, trying to get statements or comments. Just absolutely unethical and overstepping boundaries.
1,000% full stop.

Speaker 4 And with this, with everybody just thirsty for answers and information, speculation and coverage went absolutely insane. People were turning on everyone.

Speaker 4 There were also points where the public turned on Hunter and Emily, Xana and Ethan's best friends, Hunter, the one who discovered them in the house that morning, they turned on them as though they did it.

Speaker 4 And Hunter and Emily speak out in this docuseries saying they were receiving death threats, that people thought they were the ones responsible for this.

Speaker 4 Of course, blame and public opinion was also turning on Dylan and Bethany, the two survivors, the two surviving roommates, because people were questioning, How could you have slept through all of this?

Speaker 4 How did you not know anything? Why didn't you call 911 for hours? Jack, Kaylee's ex-boyfriend, also got roped into all of this. Was he a jealous ex? Was he trying to retaliate? Was this revenge?

Speaker 4 We had found out that she had rapid fire called him that night at many times, which it's my belief, she's a young girl. She was drunk dialing him.
Who the hell cares?

Speaker 4 But people were taking this information and running with it, trying to figure out who did this, just desperate for answers. Everyone felt scared.

Speaker 4 Everyone felt like they were being stalked, either stalked for comment or stalked because the public was now calling them a murderer.

Speaker 4 And it got so bad that a second press conference had to be held, one in which the police just used this presser to publicly clear these people as suspects. That's how insane the harassment became.

Speaker 4 So in this press conference, they clear the roommates, they clear Jack, and they also clear the hoodie guy. They also said in this press conference that they had no known suspects.

Speaker 4 They also had no weapons that had been recovered. So still, it was like, great, you were clearing some people, but not others.

Speaker 4 You're still not giving any information as to who this is, if there's still a danger out there, if there's a threat to the community.

Speaker 4 So of course, rumors are just going to continue to build and build and build. And over a month and a half went by with no updates, no news, no suspects.
But then...

Speaker 4 Everything changed. Because just after 11 p.m.
on December 29th, all of the families each received a very important phone call. A phone call that was about to change their lives.

Speaker 4 So it's now been about a month and and a half since the quadruple murder took place. No suspects had been named, no public information released.

Speaker 4 It was really just left up to everyone coming up with their own conclusions, forming their own opinions, and some really batshit crazy rumors and speculation out there. But then, just after 11 p.m.

Speaker 4 on the 29th of December, the police made a phone call. They called the families of all of the victims and they shared some very important news.

Speaker 24 It was after 11 o'clock. I was already in bed.

Speaker 24 And the officer said, don't tell anyone.

Speaker 24 But we have the suspect in custody.

Speaker 4 The following day, on December 30th, another press conference was held. And this time, it was to announce the arrest of Brian Koberger.

Speaker 11 A major development in a closely watched murder case.

Speaker 3 Just moments from now, police in Moscow, Idaho will hold a news conference.

Speaker 70 This room is absolutely packed here at Moscow City Hall. Dozens of reporters here inside, bunches of TV cameras.

Speaker 6 So we're all sitting there, mostly a bunch of local newspaper reporters, people within like an hour or two of Moscow.

Speaker 6 And there was a press conference.

Speaker 40 Last night, detectives arrested 28-year-old Brian Christopher Kohlberger in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania.

Speaker 40 Kohlberger resides in Pullman, Washington, and is a graduate student at Washington State University.

Speaker 40 Due to Idaho state law, we are limited in what information we can release today until Kohlberger has been, has his initial appearance in Idaho court.

Speaker 4 Now this new information, it made everyone spin. Everyone was trying to make a connection, trying to see if anybody knew who he was.
Did he know any of the victims? Did he know any of the friends?

Speaker 4 Who was this guy? Who was this guy who came in in the dead of night and stabbed four young college students?

Speaker 29 I went to my friend's house and we all were like, do you know who he is? Do we know who he is? And none of us knew.

Speaker 41 My first reaction was, who the hell is this this guy? He is just this random person that has nothing to do with any of our lives.

Speaker 35 We all now know the name of the person who's been charged with these offenses. Please ask the public, anyone who knows about this individual, to come forward.

Speaker 55 I was told that they had made an arrest someone named Brian.

Speaker 9 I was like, Brian?

Speaker 34 It's like, I've never even heard of a Brian.

Speaker 36 Like, why would this random guy from Pullman that no one's met before do this?

Speaker 4 Nobody could understand who this guy was. There was a lot of relief that that it wasn't somebody they knew.
It wasn't a friend among themselves. It also wasn't another one of their own from Idaho.

Speaker 4 But even though that was a little comforting, there was still the massive discomfort of who the hell was this guy? Who is this creep?

Speaker 4 So, as his mugshot is shared pretty much everywhere, it took no time at all for all the sleuths to start digging, to start putting information together, figure out who Brian is, figure out all the details they could about him.

Speaker 4 And sure enough, pretty quickly, it was discovered that he actually was a PhD criminology student.

Speaker 4 And this was very upsetting because it looked as though, okay, this guy was not only a fellow student at a different campus at WSU, but only 15 minutes away from Moscow, but he studied criminology.

Speaker 4 He was going for his PhD. He was smart.
He was interested in this stuff. And that was a little unnerving.

Speaker 4 Just a few days later, on January 5th, Brian had his first hearing. And here is how that day was described.

Speaker 71 The first time they brought Brian Koberger into the courtroom, when they opened the doors,

Speaker 6 a chill swept through the courtroom.

Speaker 6 It was just

Speaker 6 a really eerie, surreal feeling to see him for the first time.

Speaker 4 Maddie's parents also described what it was like seeing Brian for the first time.

Speaker 51 Just seeing him, and he was probably, I don't know, maybe eight feet away from me.

Speaker 9 I almost really wanted to take him out myself right there.

Speaker 57 It was

Speaker 40 okay,

Speaker 7 gotta calm down.

Speaker 3 My wife actually was holding on to my arm because she was afraid I was gonna go do something.

Speaker 24 I remember just holding his arm as tightly as I could, and he was shaking.

Speaker 24 I think we were all shaking.

Speaker 72 Count two alleges that you committed the felony offense of murder in the first degree. The maximum penalty for this offense is death or imprisonment for for life.

Speaker 4 Do you understand?

Speaker 36 Yes.

Speaker 44 I thought

Speaker 49 I would

Speaker 24 feel like, you know, yes,

Speaker 24 we're here. We're watching you.
Like, how dare you?

Speaker 24 And it wasn't that way at all.

Speaker 15 He didn't look at us, but I'm sure he was instructed to do so.

Speaker 40 And I thought,

Speaker 24 if he doesn't feel bad, why am I wasting so much time? even pretending like he's a human being

Speaker 24 and I'm hurting myself.

Speaker 24 He's not going to make me a victim.

Speaker 4 Now, although Maddie's family went to that hearing and some friends have gone and other family members, Ethan's family has shared that they have no interest in attending any of the hearings, not even the trial when the trial begins.

Speaker 4 And here is what his mom had to say about it.

Speaker 23 Sitting in a courtroom just doesn't feel right.

Speaker 73 Why would I go sit in a courtroom with that person?

Speaker 40 Have you attended any of the hearings? No.

Speaker 34 No, I will not. We won't.

Speaker 14 We won't attend any of the hearings.

Speaker 33 What's the purpose?

Speaker 32 Definitely not the trial.

Speaker 39 No. Nope.

Speaker 24 I don't have a need to go look them in the eyes or

Speaker 7 I don't.

Speaker 31 It is what it is.

Speaker 24 We cannot change the outcome on this thing.

Speaker 7 We cannot bring anything back.

Speaker 4 Now, due to this case being such a high-profile death penalty case and so much speculation just taking over and it being so chaotic, a gag order was issued.

Speaker 4 And the gag order was actually issued through the duration of the verdict, meaning until a verdict is reached and read and put into court law, no investigators, no law enforcement officers, nobody related to the case can discuss the case because they fear that it would jeopardize the trial.

Speaker 4 And because of the gag order, then the attention started shifting because now there were these sleuths who were looking into the case, who were dissecting every detail, but with a gag order, that was giving them a roadblock.

Speaker 4 They couldn't keep doing that.

Speaker 4 So the natural shift was to start looking into Brian, to start sleuthing his background, trying to figure out more about him since no more details were coming out about the case.

Speaker 6 Everyone just became obsessed with figuring out everything about this guy. Who is Brian Koberger?

Speaker 27 What brought him to that house?

Speaker 52 Did he just spontaneously combust into a killer overnight?

Speaker 4 So as this case is taking flight and going viral, a guy named Josh sees him. sees it come across his screen on the news, and he recognizes him.
He went to DeSales University with him.

Speaker 4 He was even a partner with him on a school project. He knew Brian personally.

Speaker 4 And here is Josh and another classmate of Brian's describing their history with him and their interactions with him.

Speaker 11 Brian Koberger and I met in the biology room. We were all being paired up for this long project that we were about to do.

Speaker 11 We're like picking partners and I see this guy standing alone with his leather jacket on and he's like just kind of being quiet.

Speaker 11 I'm the type of guy that says, hey, buddy, do you want to be my partner?

Speaker 11 This guy is incredibly smart, incredibly detail-oriented, oriented and he is honestly a pleasure to work with do you need help with a do you need help with b bouncing ideas off each other fact-checking each other i took a few classes with brian koberger he was also a forensic psychology major we saw him maybe as the smarter student I remember there was a class where I actually tried to cheat off his test.

Speaker 73 I don't tell a lot of people that, but I tried to cheat off his test because I knew he always did amazing in our psychology classes.

Speaker 11 He seemed to be a lonely guy. I definitely invited him to a party one time and he said, no, I can remember that.

Speaker 37 He commuted to DeSales.

Speaker 42 So it was kind of hard to learn who Brian was.

Speaker 11 He is an oddball. He is smart, but he's like a robot purely based off the fact of his social inability.

Speaker 11 to perform in a normal human manner. I can absolutely see someone like him being involved in something like this.

Speaker 4 Then they mention Dr. Ramsland and how Brian studied directly underneath her.

Speaker 73 Dr. Catherine Ramsland is a very accredited woman in the forensic psychology world.

Speaker 46 She has been on multiple TV shows.

Speaker 39 She's published multiple books.

Speaker 20 I spent five years talking with Dennis Rada, the BTK serial killer, because he defies many of the formulas.

Speaker 11 Brian Koberger studied forensic psychology under Dr. Ramsland.
In that class, you learned about serial killers, murderers, and their motives.

Speaker 73 Right behind our campus is a group of houses where normal people live, but one house to sales bought and they use a crime scene house. Dr.
Ramsland would leave evidence and clues of a real...

Speaker 7 murder that happened in history.

Speaker 11 We would try to figure out exactly how this crime took place, just thinking about how and why a person would do something like that.

Speaker 73 I did one assignment with Brian in the crime scene house.

Speaker 46 We're all sitting there quiet and he would come up with something like, well, maybe the intruder did this.

Speaker 73 Brian's analysis usually helped us get to the end goal of what Dr. Ramslin wanted us to get to.

Speaker 4 So a big point of conversation through all of this was how Brian was very, very inquisitive and how sometimes serial killers can mask their personal curiosity through education, almost as though he wasn't interested in this at an educational level and then became a serial killer because of it, but more so he always wanted to kill.

Speaker 4 And so he strategically took courses to learn the ins and outs. Again, that's just a theory and that was just conversation.

Speaker 4 But with that, it then catapults us into the now infamous survey that we saw go viral after the arrest.

Speaker 6 Koberger posted a Reddit survey where he was interested in figuring out what motivates people to commit certain types of crimes.

Speaker 22 You don't look like a psychopath.

Speaker 15 You look like you're doing your homework.

Speaker 73 Ryan was asking questions about how certain inmates felt about the crime that they did, which to me was very bizarre to ask.

Speaker 73 It was definitely out of the realm of the type of questions that we would ask.

Speaker 45 The Master of Arts in Criminal Justice is awarded to Ryan Kohlberger.

Speaker 11 You could be a teacher who is supposed to be the protector of children doing nefarious things with a student. How oftentimes do we see that?

Speaker 11 They coached the football team and they're involved in Little League and they're part of the community all the while being

Speaker 11 that chameleon is blending in with society.

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Speaker 4 So as everybody's piecing together his background, we also learn about how when Brian Koberger wanted to be a research assistant for the police department in Washington, this was in the spring of 2022, so just a few months before the quadruple murders.

Speaker 3 Previous to my employment at Washington State University, I was the chief of police for the city of Pullman.

Speaker 3 We had a program where a WSU criminal justice PhD student would do research and assistance for us. So I interviewed Brian Koberger.

Speaker 3 I know that he had an interest in the mind of a person who commits crimes, their motivation and how they feel. They seemed maybe a little bit awkward in talking with him.

Speaker 3 His communication style was not like a fluid conversation necessarily, where he spoke easily. It was a little bit more stuttered, I guess, with a researcher and a law enforcement agency.

Speaker 11 A huge factor is developing trust.

Speaker 3 And that was one area where I felt he might fall short.

Speaker 37 He did not get the job.

Speaker 4 So everybody's finding out all of this unsettling information about Brian in real time, right? They're finding out about his education.

Speaker 4 They're finding out that he's kind of a loner, but nobody really still knows who Brian is. Who is he?

Speaker 6 What we know about Brian Koberger is that he was raised in the rural rural mountains of the Poconos in Pennsylvania. He seems to have been picked on or bullied as a kid a lot when he got older.

Speaker 6 He was kind of a loner kid while Koberger was at Washington State University. He was a teacher's assistant.

Speaker 6 And from what we've heard from students who were in classes with Koberger, he had somewhat of an off-putting personality.

Speaker 6 It's not like this guy had a rap. It'd be different if like in his past he had some other like violent assault or something on his record.

Speaker 6 What makes this so striking is this wasn't some career criminal. This might have been someone's first act.

Speaker 4 The same day of that hearing, the probable cause affidavit was released. And this gave a whole new level of insights into how Brian was connected and how they ended up coming to arrest Brian.

Speaker 52 We have breaking news for you, and that is that the probable cause affidavit in the Idaho IV murder case has officially been released.

Speaker 22 A lot of information as to what led to Brian Koberger's arrest.

Speaker 21 And these details are so heartbreaking.

Speaker 4 Let's talk about the key takeaways because ONG.

Speaker 31 Probable cause affidavit is supposed to provide a judge with just enough evidence for the suspect to be held on the crime.

Speaker 66 DNA, phone records, and that white Hyundai Elantra.

Speaker 21 Those are the pieces of evidence police believe connect Brian Kohlberger to the Idaho murders.

Speaker 6 We get to see the homework that all the investigators put together to say Brian Koberger is our guy. The night the killings took place.

Speaker 6 Koberger's cell phone data reveals he leaves his apartment in Pullman, heading toward Moscow. His cell phone stops reporting to the network at 2.47 a.m.

Speaker 6 Investigators say that's consistent with someone like putting their phone in airplane mode or turning it off.

Speaker 46 Just before 3.30 a.m., a white Elantra is seen on surveillance footage making passes at the King Road house. Investigators believe the homicides occurred between 4 and 4.25 a.m.

Speaker 6 And then sometime after 4.20 a.m., a white Hyundai Elantra is seen leaving the King Road residence at high speed on security footage.

Speaker 28 When Koberger's phone starts reporting to the network again, it happens at 4.48 a.m.

Speaker 6 as he's headed south from Moscow towards Genesee.

Speaker 67 According to cell phone data, Koberger drove back to Pullman in an odd way.

Speaker 69 Typically, people will drive down the main highway that connects the two towns, or they'll drive on the airport road.

Speaker 4 But he drove through a residential subdivision out of the way.

Speaker 6 He winds his way back to Pullman through some of the smaller farm towns.

Speaker 6 Koberger returns to his residence on the Pullman campus in the early morning hours.

Speaker 6 One of the most shocking parts of the affidavit was that investigators found a sheath for a knife next to Maddie on the bed.

Speaker 6 The cell phone records show Koberger likely returned to the area of 1122 King Road that morning. He seems to circle back to the crime scene sometime around 9 a.m.

Speaker 46 It kind of makes my skin crawl knowing that

Speaker 15 he was on the same street. He was by my car.
He was by my front door that morning.

Speaker 11 When he went back there in the morning, that was an oh shit moment. I left the sheath and that has my DNA on it.
That's what I truly believe. Where is that sheath? Oh my God, where is it?

Speaker 11 Probably freaking out because he probably wore booties on his feet. He probably gloved up.
He probably had long sleeves.

Speaker 8 He probably had a hair net and a hood up.

Speaker 11 Knowing what he did know probably accounted for every little thing that he could.

Speaker 11 You can say you're going to do this, this, and this on any given day, but almost 100% of the time, the plan has to deviate because you can't control the outcome.

Speaker 4 As this is released, we also start hearing more about Brian's movements in the days following the murders. And with this information, it starts illustrating a lot of red flags.

Speaker 6 Five days after the killings occurred, Brian Koberger changed his car registration. from Pennsylvania to Washington.

Speaker 6 This is extremely suspicious because maybe someone is worried that their car was captured on video or surveillance of some kind.

Speaker 6 And so registering a different state is a way to change not only the look of your vehicle, but where it's registered, the information about it. Maybe it's a way to cover something up.

Speaker 4 Once that car from that footage was identified, the police put out a bolo, but they only put it out to law enforcement. It wasn't a public one, which a bolo is a be on the lookout for.

Speaker 4 So they put this car out to a law enforcement bolo. And there was an officer who was just driving around the student housing complex and he spotted that same car with Pennsylvania plates.

Speaker 4 They ran the plates and sure enough, it was registered to Brian Koberger. And when they ran that, it was discovered that he had actually been previously stopped for a traffic violation.

Speaker 4 Now, even though this officer discovered this car with the plates, because the car model was a different year, they didn't submit the lead to Moscow.

Speaker 4 And this discovery was on the 29th of November, so a month before the arrest.

Speaker 4 And in hindsight, when this information came to light, a lot of people thought that they dropped the ball, and that they could have easily connected it then, but

Speaker 4 because it was a different year,

Speaker 4 they didn't submit the lead to Moscow.

Speaker 4 So as the details in the case are slowly leaking or slowly being released, the public and the true crime community was like in overdrive, just searching for anything and everything that could explain why someone would kill these four students.

Speaker 4 And that is when the Papa Rogers account was discovered on social media, although it was initially created a month before the arrest happened.

Speaker 4 And we covered this Papa Roger account in real time when we had first discovered it years ago. So I'll link that deep dive in the show notes.

Speaker 4 But basically, people saw this account and they thought that it was Brian Koberger. They thought it was like a SOC account or an alias account of his.

Speaker 4 And the reason why is because this Papa Rogers account, that was the name of the user, he was in these groups that were dedicated on Facebook to the Idaho 4 case, commenting, theorizing, just sharing details too that nobody knew at the time, details that had not been publicly released.

Speaker 44 Papa Roger joined our Facebook group, the University of Idaho murders case discussion, a couple of weeks after we started the page.

Speaker 44 And he immediately started to get attention because of the questions he was asking

Speaker 44 and just how creepy overall he was. Belena and I are like the administrators of the page.
And if something gets posted that's inappropriate, it like pops up to our attention.

Speaker 18 We get this like file of people that report comments and his were in there all the time, which is how he became like even more prominent in my head.

Speaker 44 I mean, he just asked really weird questions: like, how did the killer hold the knife prior to entering the scene, in your opinion?

Speaker 21 He said, which hand do you think they used to kill with?

Speaker 71 And I was just like, ooh, who is he?

Speaker 65 Like, something's not right.

Speaker 21 Something's off with this guy.

Speaker 46 Alina and I have a passion for true crime.

Speaker 44 We have multiple pages that focus on crimes that people are looking to solve. But the biggest and most well-known is the University of Idaho murders.

Speaker 44 There was talk back then, like, oh, I bet the killer is on this page. There's 220,000 of us.

Speaker 21 We have almost a quarter million members. Somebody's going to say something that's going to be significant.

Speaker 44 People ask questions on this page and they like, oh, I think so-and-so did it, but he was so into like the crime scene and like the killer and why he did things.

Speaker 31 In hindsight, I see something very much along the same lines as the questionnaire that Brian Koberger created for a school project.

Speaker 44 He wanted like the thoughts and feelings into why somebody committed crime.

Speaker 43 Papa Roger asked on our page,

Speaker 44 How did the killer leave the scene? Koberger asked, how did you leave the scene in his questionnaire? Papa Rogers said, did you clean up at all?

Speaker 44 Brian Kohlberg asked, before leaving, is there anything else you did? The questions on his questionnaire are very similar to the questions that Papa Roger asked on our page.

Speaker 4 During this same window of time, as Papa Rogers is making these comments and these posts in this Facebook group, Brian went on that cross-country drive with his father back to Pennsylvania.

Speaker 4 During that drive, we also know and saw through body cam footage that he was pulled over twice.

Speaker 4 So I would imagine that news of the Elantra being out and him being pulled over and knowing that law enforcement is looking for his car, it's enough for me to believe and it was enough for people to suspect that he probably was starting to spiral in these moments, especially as he was being pulled over, thinking like the walls are starting to close in.

Speaker 4 He knows law enforcement's looking for his car or a version of. He sees all these people theorizing and seeing that this case has just completely gone nuclear and everybody's talking about it.

Speaker 4 I could imagine that he starts feeling quite a bit of stress, which at the same time, while all of this is happening, the Papa Roger posts and comments start becoming more erratic, more unhinged, starting to deflect from the car, saying, No, no, no, this car that they've put out, it's just a red herring.

Speaker 4 We don't need to look into this. This isn't anything real or big.

Speaker 4 He also then comments mentioning the idea of the sheath being left behind, which, by the way, this was a detail that at the time of that post had not been released.

Speaker 4 That detail of the sheath being left behind was not released until a month later, prompting the question, how would this user know to ask about it?

Speaker 4 And I'm going to get back to that in a bit, but take a listen.

Speaker 44 One post in particular that really catches my attention is his very first post on November 30th. Of the evidence released, the murder weapon has been consistent as a large fixed blade knife.

Speaker 44 This leads me to believe they found the sheath. That is so odd because we didn't hear anything about the sheath.

Speaker 44 This has never been discussed publicly. This is November 30th.
This is a full month before they even arrest him.

Speaker 4 Now, my personal opinion, and you may disagree, which is totally fine, but my personal opinion is that If Papa Rogers is Brian Koberger, which we will also talk about more here in a minute, I think that he posted about the sheath because he wanted to see if anybody would confirm that it was found.

Speaker 4 Because at that point, it was a detail that wasn't made public yet, right? It was just a fear of his that he left it behind.

Speaker 4 So I think he was trying to almost like, not breadcrumb, but maybe a little bit be like, I think that maybe there was a sheath that was left behind.

Speaker 4 That's how they know about this, this, and this, hoping that maybe somebody would be like.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I'm connected to law enforcement or I have a friend in law enforcement and they did find a sheath, trying to almost get that information out. I think that he slipped up a little bit.

Speaker 4 I think he got a little bit careless. So we also find out that prior to his arrest, they did in fact find that sheath.

Speaker 4 We also learned that the police had connected touch DNA located on the sheath's button and connected it to Brian through genealogy testing.

Speaker 4 So after all of that, in Pennsylvania, after he arrives there on his cross-country road trip with his dad, the FBI begins surveilling him. They also arrest him and they search his properties.

Speaker 46 Back in Pennsylvania, the FBI began surveilling the Coburger residents.

Speaker 46 They take some of the family's garbage and made a DNA profile of Brian Koberger's father and then got at least a partial match to the DNA profile on the knife sheath.

Speaker 6 So using all of this information, investigators say we believe the person who committed this crime is Brian Koberger. We want a warrant for his arrest.

Speaker 3 The investigators let us know of their plan that they were going to do an arrest at his family home in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 3 We were going to time the search warrants at his office and his graduate student housing department to happen almost simultaneously.

Speaker 71 Police department search warrant from the door.

Speaker 21 A break in the case that has gripped this nation.

Speaker 45 Authorities have arrested a suspect in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 50 Koberger reportedly had a blank stare as he was arrested and also asked if anyone else had been taken into custody.

Speaker 68 Mr. Koberger was found in the kitchen area wearing latex gloves and apparently was taking his personal trash and putting it into separate Ziploc baggies.

Speaker 6 The police took computers. They have hard drives.

Speaker 21 They took black clothing.

Speaker 6 They took gloves, masks.

Speaker 9 There were no clothes at the apartment.

Speaker 3 It just was almost vacant. Looked like he had planned not to come back.

Speaker 4 Now, you know what's so interesting is right after the arrest, poof, like magic, the Papa Rogers account disappears, just erased from the internet. So I don't, he obviously couldn't have done that.

Speaker 4 He was in custody, but if it was connected to Brian, could the FBI have scraped it? Once they searched and seized all of his devices, will they find that the IP is linked to that account?

Speaker 4 Will they see postings that were on the account?

Speaker 4 So now, with all of the pieces that are beginning to come together, how they were killed, who was responsible, when it happened, the biggest question on everyone's mind, aside from, you know, why did he do it, was

Speaker 4 what really happened inside that house that night?

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Speaker 4 At this point, we still didn't know what took place inside 1122 King Road. And that was the question weighing so heavily on everyone.

Speaker 36 That night, I had left an apartment complex near the King Road house at 4 a.m.

Speaker 11 And I remembered thinking to myself that it was eerily quiet. Usually you can see the last remnants of people leaving a party, but it was silent.

Speaker 4 The probable cause affidavit not only told us more about Brian, but it also told us more about what happened in those early morning hours.

Speaker 4 And more specifically, it told us what Dylan saw and what Dylan did.

Speaker 46 A few weeks after that night, Dylan had expressed to me what happened.

Speaker 24 She heard Kayleigh and Maddie come home

Speaker 18 and she heard them chit-chatting on the couch for a while. The couch was on the wall of her bedroom

Speaker 18 and

Speaker 46 she was pretty much sleeping through it.

Speaker 6 The surviving roommates, Bethany Funk, and Dylan Mortensen confirm that all members of the King Road residence were asleep by 4 a.m. That's with the exception of Xana Cernodel at 4 a.m.

Speaker 46 DoorDash drops off an order for Xana. At 4.05 a.m., a white Elantra is seen driving in front of the King Road house, making a turn, and then parking.

Speaker 73 And cell phone data shows that Xana was on TikTok around 4.12 a.m.

Speaker 46 That is when Dylan hears some commotion kind of upstairs.

Speaker 31 She thought she heard someone say there's someone here.

Speaker 46 She looked out of her bedroom door on the second floor and didn't see anything.

Speaker 18 Dylan said that she remembered hearing crying.

Speaker 46 And she thought she heard a male voice say, it's okay, I'm going to help you.

Speaker 6 Video from next door at 4.17 a.m.

Speaker 71 captures the sound of a whimper and a loud thud.

Speaker 73 A dog barking can also be heard on the footage.

Speaker 46 Dylan opens her door for a third time and she describes seeing a man with bushy eyebrows.

Speaker 6 This person walked past her bedroom and out the sliding glass door of the back room.

Speaker 19 She said that she just scaredly closed the door.

Speaker 14 Like, boom.

Speaker 4 Dylan was incredibly frightened and she started calling all of the roommates, but nobody was picking up.

Speaker 4 So then she ran down to Bethany's room in the basement so that she could be with her so that she wasn't alone.

Speaker 21 Eventually she just decided to go for it.

Speaker 18 And she made a run for it to Bethany's room down in the basement. Dylan was like, did you hear any of that?

Speaker 21 Clayland was like, No.

Speaker 18 And so

Speaker 18 I think that

Speaker 18 Doane was probably just like, I must have imagined it.

Speaker 18 And if you didn't hear anything, then let's go to bed together safely.

Speaker 4 Now, with all of this information now out there, too, as you can imagine, the internet just started attacking these surviving roommates, laying into them for potentially hearing the murders, seeing the murderer, and not calling 911 until hours later.

Speaker 30 I'm sure Dylan and Bethany see these hurtful comments and they can't really say anything back to it.

Speaker 28 But, you know, they are not speaking out for obvious reasons, legal reasons.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 15 that's what the public, I don't think, necessarily understands.

Speaker 18 I think it's very important for everybody to know.

Speaker 21 that what if doesn't matter because

Speaker 4 if she had known what was going on it would have been too late anyways so as we know dylan then woke up and she made that phone call to her friend saying something weird is going on it's not a dream i think it's real it's at the house can you come over and that's when hunter and the girls went over to 1122 king road police entered the house and went up to the second floor

Speaker 69 they went into xanna's bedroom and found her and Ethan dead with stab boots.

Speaker 30 Police then went up to the third floor and into Maddie's bedroom, where they found both Maddie and Kaylee in Maddie's bed, dead with multiple stab wounds.

Speaker 4 Now, this fueled even more speculation as to who this guy was. Was he stalking them? Police stated that it was targeted, so who was the killer targeting?

Speaker 4 Then, given the only publicly available information out about Brian, the public decided to create their own profile of him, kind of like how an FBI profiler would create one on their perp, on who they think committed a horrific crime.

Speaker 4 And that is right about the time when the term incel was mentioned. Now, I did a full deep dive on this very, very early on before it became like public theory and

Speaker 4 fodder. It was back in, gosh.
is back in January, I think, of that year. It was right around the time of the murders, which I'll link it for you, but it's where we spoke about Elliot Rogers.

Speaker 4 And Elliot Rogers is a famous incel, which the term incel means involuntarily celibate. And it's a very dangerous group of people in my opinion, or it can be.

Speaker 4 Now, as I said, Elliot Rogers is a very infamous incel. He has fan clubs, fan groups, people who look up to him like he's a hero.
But what's interesting.

Speaker 4 is he also coincidentally has the same last name as that internet user, Papa Rogers. So is that some sort of inspo alias that somebody created, looking to Elliot as some like hero?

Speaker 6 The definition there is involuntarily celibate. So this is a sort of person that cannot connect with the other gender sexually and maybe feels some resentment toward that gender.

Speaker 15 Haley Willette says they met in 2015 when he took her to a movie, then insisted on escorting her to her dorm room.

Speaker 72 He kept trying to tickle me and I would ask him to stop and he would get very serious. I proceeded to pretend to throw up in the bathroom, hoping that he would leave.

Speaker 72 And then he messaged me and he said that I had good birthing hips.

Speaker 20 I still think think the more we find out that this was incel rage, rage against women, because of his history with women, starting in high school, where the girls would be bullying him.

Speaker 6 Certain men feel like they are owed a relationship with a woman, that that's not something they should have to earn.

Speaker 73 It's something that they should be given.

Speaker 3 I did hear about a situation where Koberger had followed a student out to

Speaker 3 her car, like trying to flirt with her, and she reported it to someone in the criminal justice department.

Speaker 6 At Washington State University, he starts getting into altercations with students, and we find out later that he was fired from his TA ship.

Speaker 21 He got more feisty and belligerent, even arguing with his professors, until December 19th, Brian Koberger is officially terminated by Washington State University.

Speaker 6 And I'm pushing him for documents. I want to know about the stuff about Koberger with the girls, if that's true.
I want to see his record.

Speaker 6 But again, it's just tricky because there's rumors about his behavior at the school, but none of it's verified until we have the documentation.

Speaker 4 So I mentioned Elliot Roger and how we made that deep dive episode into him very early on before it was even a public theory out there.

Speaker 4 And I personally thought that Brian most likely was or is an incel. That's just my personal opinion.
I'm not in a position to diagnose him. That is just what I think.

Speaker 4 But what I think is very interesting is as we were making these connections between Elliot, between Brian, and when I did that deep dive, as I was watching this docuseries, it was the first time that I found out and heard that Brian did in fact study Elliot Roger.

Speaker 4 This is brand new information that had never been released before. We had heard that he had studied serial killers, but we had never heard that he studied Elliot.

Speaker 4 Now here's Brian's former classmates sharing those details.

Speaker 11 At the Sales University, some of the people that Brian and I studied that were serial killers were Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Ed Kempher, and Elliot Roger.

Speaker 11 So Elliot Roger, he was a young man in college that was basically jaded and hated his life because he lacked the attention from friends, family, and most of all, women.

Speaker 11 So Elliot Roger, one day, first he invited some people over. that he claimed to be friends with.
He stabbed them to death.

Speaker 11 He then went out with firearms to a sorority and killed a number of women in a sorority. He then drove around, shot multiple other people in public, and he ended his own life in his vehicle.

Speaker 11 But after the fact, there was a written manifesto, and he basically tells you, this is what I did. This is why I did it.

Speaker 21 Roger's sexist rants are part of a culture that breeds violence against women.

Speaker 21 Roger wrote, all of those beautiful girls I've desired so much of my life, but can never have because they despise and loathe me.

Speaker 14 I will destroy.

Speaker 4 So this, of course, genuinely makes me think that that Papa Roger account was an inspiration to him, almost like an ode to Elliot.

Speaker 44 If you listen to some of the manifestos of Elliot Roger, it talks about hating all the girls from Alpha Phi, the same sorority that Kaylee was in.

Speaker 39 Brian was interested in a lot of things that we learned, but he did have more of an interest in Elliot Roger.

Speaker 73 I talked to other girls in the class where we were all bothered by what Elliot Roger did, but Brian did not seem bothered.

Speaker 22 Incel, in my professional opinion, this is a particularly dangerous version of

Speaker 67 misogyny because incel communities have this presence in an online space. They can say things and provide support.

Speaker 31 for things that perhaps they wouldn't do in a face-to-face context because they would be concerned about what the social consequences or the repercussions would look like.

Speaker 4 Now, as all this was public and people were talking about it and making connections in online incel forms, Brian was being praised, being admired even, saying he did what Elliot couldn't do.

Speaker 4 I mean, Brian had a full-on fan club, still does to this day. People even started creating fake accounts of his, just trying to be him.

Speaker 4 Some people taking it so far and so sick and twisted that they would create social media accounts posing as Brian and they would DM the the friends of the victims, taunting them, saying, sorry, I killed your friends, sorry I killed those bitches, just truly sick and unhinged.

Speaker 4 So then the docuseries starts sharing what the aftermath has been like, what it has been like having this huge, high-profile case out there, people harassing you, hounding you, and not even being able to just breathe without a new theory popping up or a new question or a new accusation.

Speaker 4 And Ethan's family also shares what they did with Ethan's remains, which I personally find this just incredibly touching and beautiful.

Speaker 4 They talk about how they were looking for a place to put him, but that nothing made sense because where do you put your child? That's the exact question, his mom said. Where do you put your kid?

Speaker 4 So they shared that they put him in the basement until one of them dies. Then he will be with them.

Speaker 4 They say that way he is safe, he's with family, they can go downstairs to the basement and talk to him whenever they want, which they do. And I find that very comforting personally.

Speaker 4 Now, when sharing about how to move forward, Maddie's mom also shared, and here's what she had to say.

Speaker 24 I feel like the struggle getting to this point was: I can't do this,

Speaker 31 I just can't.

Speaker 24 But it's just not mentally healthy to waste time

Speaker 24 other than laughing about Maddie, talking about Maddie.

Speaker 24 that's really all we do.

Speaker 24 There is very little place in my heart for holding on to anger. That's not what you heal from.

Speaker 6 A year ago, I couldn't have spoken to you at all.

Speaker 24 I couldn't have articulated any of this.

Speaker 24 And it's taken friends, family, time

Speaker 24 to slowly creep out of that really,

Speaker 24 really bad place. And it's also reminding myself, like,

Speaker 30 how

Speaker 24 would Maddie and Kaylee want to see me? Would they want to see me crying in my pajamas and can't get out of bed? Or they want to see me talking about them and how happy and how amazing they are.

Speaker 24 And that's a struggle.

Speaker 24 You never know how strong you are until strong is all you can be.

Speaker 4 Now, after I had wrapped this recording, a complete curveball was thrown on June 30th because on June 30th, it was announced that Brian Koberger was accepting a plea deal.

Speaker 4 In exchange for the death penalty being removed, he was going to plead guilty to the burglary charge and all four murder charges.

Speaker 4 And sure enough, on Wednesday, he had his plea hearing where he changed his plea in court and it was accepted by the judge.

Speaker 4 And there has been a lot of conversation about whether this was fair, whether this was right, and a lot of the families believe it's unfair. They didn't agree with this.

Speaker 4 They wanted to go through with the trial. They wanted Brian to have to face everyone in court and answer to these crimes, every detail coming out.

Speaker 4 So even though this plea deal was structured and accepted, People were mad. People were outraged.

Speaker 4 And a lot of people said, well, if they are going to at least do this plea deal and cancel the trial, there needs to be an allocution, meaning he needs to say every single detail, the motive, what happened, where the murder weapon is, all of those things.

Speaker 4 However, in the plea hearing on July 2nd, the judge accepted his plea and he did not state that that was going to be a requirement.

Speaker 4 So as of now, it seems that the only information that we are going to receive, since it's not going to trial, is going to happen once the gag order is lifted, which will not happen until sentencing, which is scheduled for July 23rd.

Speaker 4 That day, he will be sentenced and also all of the victims in this case will have an opportunity to read their victim impact statements and address the court.

Speaker 4 But at this point, the plea deal has already been accepted, the guilty plea has already been accepted, and there was no mention of allocution or certain criteria within that required.

Speaker 4 So we will just wait until the gag order is lifted to see what other information comes to light. The good news with this is that he will spend the rest of his life behind bars.

Speaker 4 He will have no opportunity for appeal, and we will never hear from this loser douchebag again.

Speaker 4 However, that's not much solace in comparison when you hear from the family and how they have said very vocally, not all of the families, but some, that this is not the outcome that they wanted.

Speaker 4 Overall, I found this docuseries incredibly insightful just because, again, we're hearing from people that we have not personally heard from before: Dylan and Bethany's friends, Hunter, who went into the house that day, people who knew Brian personally.

Speaker 4 And so, I think it just gives us a better depiction of who Brian is, what the motivation could have been, and more importantly, who these victims were, what their legacy stands for, everything that was a bright light in their life.

Speaker 4 And I just found it really insightful. So I encourage you to watch if you are interested.

Speaker 4 If you have been following along with this case, make sure that you take a quick second, whatever app you're listening to this podcast on, make sure you click the button in the corner to follow it.

Speaker 4 It's totally free, but that way you won't miss as those update episodes come out because I release them outside of the normal release schedule.

Speaker 4 Also, if you're watching this on YouTube, make sure you subscribe so that you don't miss those updates. And I'm curious to hear from you.
So, thank you guys so much for tuning in to another episode.

Speaker 4 Again, the docuseries is called One Night in Idaho. I appreciate you tuning in.
Let's keep all of the families in our thoughts and prayers. All right, guys, thank you so much.

Speaker 4 And until the next one, be nice, don't kill people, don't hang around any incels, And just watch your back. Lock your doors.
Lock your doors. That is the number one thing.
Lock your doors.

Speaker 4 All right, guys. Thanks.

Speaker 17 Bye.

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