315: 11-Year-Old Gives Birth in Oklahoma House of Horrors, Kohberger Loses His Sh*T & Emmanuel Haro News

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Hey, True Crime Besties.

Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialist Sleep.

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all new episode of Serialessly with me, your host, Annie Elise.

I hope you guys are having a great week so far.

It has been kind of one that's going by fast.

School's back in session, at least here in my neck of the woods.

We obviously had Monday off, so it's kind of a lot going on, and there's also a lot happening in the true crime world.

Of course, We always know, unfortunately, new cases are starting to arise, but there have been so many updates over the last week that I actually kind of thought that this episode would just end up being a full update episode.

I'm not going to do that, don't worry, but there are just so many things that we need to go over.

And a lot of you last week when I met you on tour had so many questions about these cases too.

So I feel like maybe it's worth, I don't know, I don't know if I'm going to circle back to all of them.

I'll like, maybe I'll link some in the show notes, but I don't know.

I'm getting ahead of myself.

So first and foremost, thank you to everybody who came out on the last leg of the tour.

We hit Nashville, Atlanta, North Carolina.

This next leg, well, first, I'm leaving right now after this to CrimeCon for this weekend.

It's in Denver.

And then after that, we're going to Dallas, Houston, Austin, and Phoenix, which Phoenix is sold out.

I think maybe Dallas is sold out.

I'm not entirely sure.

But yeah, so there's still some tickets left.

If you guys are in the Texas area and you want to come out, you see behind me in my bookshelf now, so many of you that I've met have been like amazing and brought like little goodies, little things from your hometown.

And I mentioned it on a couple episodes again.

We're going to make this bookshelf like the Andy Cohen Watch What Happens live clubhouse where it's like all the stuff from you guys.

So that way, I don't know.

just feels more like, you know, like community, like you're with me in the studio and we're all together.

So yeah, looking forward to the Texas leg and looking forward to meeting so many of you.

Now, before we get into some of these new cases, let's start with some updates.

And I want to start with the Travis Decker update.

That name may sound familiar.

It may not.

Let me give you a little bit of a backstory, but it's been about three months since this case first broke.

And if you remember, Travis Decker went on the run after allegedly, not so allegedly, I guess, but he hasn't been convicted, murdering his three daughters.

And he's been on the run ever since.

And that's since June 2nd, to be exact.

So almost three months with no sign of him whatsoever.

And right when he first kind of, you know, took off and went on the run, I think there were reported sightings of him in Idaho.

Maybe there was one in Washington, but nobody has actually laid eyes on him.

He's, and he's very like well-trained.

I think he can, I think he's ex-military.

I'd have to go back and see exactly what, but definitely can survive on his own and be a survivalist of sorts in the woods and things like that.

So there was a lot of talk about it when it first went down.

Obviously, people were looking for answers.

Why did he kill his three daughters?

Why is he on the run?

Like, what really happened here?

But then things kind of just went silent.

Unfortunately, like they do a lot of the times when people are looking for someone and there's no news and no leads.

Sometimes I don't want to say it gets forgotten, but it just other things come up and people do, I guess, lose sight of it.

So.

In any event, there has now been an update because he has been on the run for about three months.

And on August 25th and 26th, the FBI ended up conducting a two-day grid search that covered over 240 acres.

Now, this grid search area was the Rock Island Campground that is right outside of Leavensworth, Washington.

And the lead agent of the FBI in Seattle said that the purpose of this search was to, quote, locate Travis Stecker, discover signs of his whereabouts, or find any other evidence of the murder of his three daughters.

And during this grid search, I will say what kind of sparked this whole new, I don't want to say new interest, but like this whole new conversation about Travis Decker again is that bones were found during this search.

But I will say it was inconclusive at the time if these bones belonged to animals or humans.

So they ended up being sent off to the Central Washington University Anthropology Department to confirm what type of bones they are.

And as of this recording, we're still awaiting that information.

The FBI also said that they had recovered several items in that grid search that are going to be examined to determine if they are related to the investigation.

So while it's not a ton of news or maybe the news that a lot of us would have hoped of finding him, figuring out what really happened here, what the events that led up to this were, it does seem like there is still forward movement in the case, which I think is what everybody always wants.

And we'll see what those items are too that were recovered.

A lot of the speculation in the beginning when this first went down was that after he took the lives of his three daughters that he would go off the grid and then take his own life.

Very reminiscent of Brian Laundrie in a way.

However, that obviously hasn't been confirmed because no remains have been found that belong to him.

And if you're not super familiar with this case, I tried to just again skim over, give you like a very brief backstory, but we will link where we talked about this more in depth in,

I don't think we did a dedicated episode.

I think it was a headline highlights, but we'll find the episode and I'll link it in the show notes.

Now, moving over into other updates, there have been some updates in the Emmanuel Harrow case.

I'm sure you are very familiar with this case by now.

He is the seven-month-old little boy who was reported as being kidnapped by his two parents.

That story very quickly fell apart.

I think...

First and foremost, it fell apart the second they did an on-camera interview because the public just basically eviscerated them and knew that they were lying.

But then they officially were arrested with suspicion of murder and then they ended up being charged with murder and with false reporting.

Now, while Emmanuel's remains have not been found yet, it has been said in press conferences that there is a level of cooperation from either one or both of the parents.

That did lead them out to a search a couple of weeks ago off the 60 freeway in California, but unfortunately, they did not find his remains.

But the update that I want to talk to you about with that isn't necessarily about him being found, although I am hopeful that that happens very quickly.

But it's rather more from the legal side of things because as these two monsters are now getting representation in court, two of the attorneys who are defending them also defended the Turpins, David and Louise Turpin.

And that name may sound familiar to you, and this is all kind of happening in the same location, too, okay, like the Inland Empire in California, down south.

And the Turpins went to trial back in 2019.

And a little bit of backstory of that, you may know them from

most notably from their daughter, Jordan Turpin, who has been incredibly outspoken in the last few years.

She's the one who essentially rescued all of her siblings because she broke out of the house and called 911.

But it was often referred to as the case of the original house of horrors, where these disgusting, despicable monster parents kept these kids, so many of them, all of them like shackled, chained to the bed.

had a padlock on the refrigerator, wouldn't feed them.

They didn't go to school.

It was just awful.

And I've done several deep dives into that case as well, especially because after all of these siblings were rescued, their foster family then started abusing them as well, which is so fucking twisted and sick.

I like, don't even get me started on that.

But my point is, I get everybody's going to have representation, even the scum of the earth, like David and Luis.

And sure enough, those same attorneys are now representing the Harrows, which...

I don't know what the expression is.

Birds of a feather?

I don't know.

Apple doesn't fall far.

I don't know what the expression is.

You know, I'm not good with that, but it feels like that.

So Allison Lowe, who previously represented David Turpin, is now representing Jake.

And Jeff Moore, who previously represented Louise Turpin, is now representing Rebecca.

Now, through all of this, the one attorney who has spoken out during the Haro case has been Jake's attorney, kind of that like, I don't know, like bootleg,

you know, ambulance chasing casino.

looking kind of attorney.

His name's Vincent.

He's the one who also was like very adamant that Rebecca had had to speak for herself or her own attorney had to speak for her.

I think he's also the exact same attorney who represented Jake in the 2018 case against his daughter.

So it's unclear if he also is going to be in the mix and representing Jake in some capacity.

I don't know.

It's also unclear if Rebecca has any sort of co-counsel alongside Jeff Moore, but more to come on that.

And I guess we always kind of say, especially like, for example, when Jose Baez, the guy who represented Casey Anthony, when he represents people, everybody's like, he's such a scumbag.

He's always representing these criminals.

But it's like, a defense attorney is always going to represent an alleged criminal to some degree.

And so, because this is all in close proximity to each other in the Inland Empire, too, I don't think it's that far of a stretch that these are the two people representing them.

It's just, it is weird with like the eerily similar circumstances, the child abuse allegations, and everything that goes along with it.

So, again, for the Turpin deep dives, I will link those for you as well.

Be warned though, it is a horrific, horrific story.

And it's one where I know they've covered it on Dateline and 2020 and all of those things, but the aftermath of even the rescue was so heartbreaking because of what these people, these foster parents then did to the kids all over again, almost like getting off on what they had gone through and making them relive it.

It's so sick and twisted.

Now, one more update from a recent case that we covered here on Headline Highlights.

I believe it was last week that we talked about it.

If if not last week, the week prior, but it was about the husband who was seen on that ring camera footage dragging something out of his front door.

It was like wrapped in a sheet.

It looked like a body.

Then his estranged wife's remains were found in the national forest and he ended up fleeing to Peru.

Well, sure enough, he turned himself into Interpool, which we don't see that very often.

So I guess like, I don't know.

accolades for you for doing the right thing, but he turned himself into Interpool in Lima, Peru on the morning of August 27th, and he's being held in preventative detention.

The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department also said that they do expect it to take several months, but they will be extraditing him back to the United States.

But with that current order in place, he will be held in Peruvian custody until he is extradited.

And I don't know what's going on with the kids, though, because if you remember, he fled to Peru with the kids, then took off once the kids were

like intercepted.

So I don't know what's going on, but the good news is he turned himself in.

It looks as though, even if it's not for a few months, he will be extradited.

We will get answers.

We will figure out what the hell really happened here.

But some of that ring camera footage was like the more unnerving footage that I think I've seen in like all of my CCTV exposure and history because.

Although it hasn't been proven that it was a body, it for sure looked like a body with like the shape, the lumps, the bumps, the size, the weight as he's dragging it.

And again, I believe that was in last week's episode.

So just wanted to give you some of those updates since those have been some cases that have been on our radar the last few weeks.

And now I want to get into new cases, new revelations, new updates.

And with that, I am so excited to bring back a fan favorite that so many of you have been blowing up my comment section about, saying, oh my gosh, I like it so much better when you have a co-host and you guys have such such good energy.

So here back on the pod is Amy.

Hi.

Hi.

Welcome back.

Thanks.

How's it going?

Great.

How are you?

Good.

It's been a long morning already.

I know.

I feel like we have a lot going on.

I know.

I feel like we've seen each other, but we haven't talked.

Like, honestly.

I feel like tour was yesterday, but also a lifetime ago.

No, I know.

You know what feels like a lifetime ago?

DC.

That show.

And Boston.

I know.

It feels like a lifetime ago.

The leg of the show.

Yeah.

Well, now we're about to like go in a full whirlwind.

We've got Crime Con today

that is starting tomorrow in Denver.

Then we get back

for two days.

And then we fly out

to Houston.

Houston, then Austin, then Dallas, then Phoenix.

Yes.

Then how long are we back until we go back out?

I think we're back for a few weeks.

Okay, that'll be good.

Yeah.

But yeah, it's been a whirlwind.

I know.

We have a lot to catch up on.

I know.

It's been fun, though.

Yeah, there's been a lot going on.

Okay, so first I want to talk about this update with Brian Koberger and Everything Idaho.

And Amy, I know you are very familiar with this case.

First, because it's everywhere, but also I can't shut up about it.

And everyone on tour, that's the first thing they ask about.

Literally.

And you like to go off.

We do a segment during the tour where it's ask Annie anything, which I always end up regretting at the end of every night because people will put their questions in this box.

And look, I love you guys, okay?

In the curve, we all fam, but you guys ask some really personal questions and some really controversial questions.

But without fail, every single time there's questions about Koburger in there and I can't help myself.

I just go off the rails.

Like, and it ends up being like 15 minutes.

I'm like, okay, we got to move on to the next thing.

But yeah, so there have been some updates with this.

So let me break it down.

Now, this is something that happened a few months before the Idaho IV murders even happened.

So, rewind back to June 30th of 2022, which is almost five months before the quadruple murders.

Brian Koberger, who was living in Pullman, Washington at the time, who, you know, we all know him by now, he checks into this local hotel, which is totally normal, right?

Even sometimes in like my city where I live, I'll need to be in a hotel for one reason or another.

I was in a hotel last weekend for a little, you know, staycation before the kids went back to school.

No big deal.

People book hotel rooms all the time.

But then according to reports, Brian makes this like direct harsh B line for the front desk and he flips out on the woman who's working the front desk.

Why, you may be asking, which that would be the question I would be asking.

Well, it's because he thought that he was double charged for the room that he booked, which I get that.

Getting double charged is like never.

Okay.

And right.

Although I will say this, and Amy, you can probably attest to this.

I am so scared of confrontation that I probably wouldn't go to the best.

I'm getting better.

I am getting better, but like, I wouldn't go to the front desk, or maybe I'd call because, like, there's protection of being in the phone and not face to face for some reason.

But, like, I know you would go to the front desk 100%.

But, like, whatever.

So, my point is, he thought.

I think I'd fly down to the front desk.

I mean, I feel like that's a pretty straightforward mistake.

Yeah.

You wouldn't necessarily, I guess, beeline it.

You just go to the front desk and be like, hey, it looks like I was double charged, not like marching down, all like smoke coming out of your ears.

But apparently, that's what he did.

He got really, really upset.

And we're talking like full on, sorry for any Karens listening, but like full on Karen, let me speak to your manager, that type of meltdown.

Mind you, the woman who was working at this front desk, she was still in training.

She was still like figuring out the systems and the software.

So the issue gets fixed.

She corrects it, like, no harm, no foul.

Thanks for addressing it.

Like, I'm happy to fix it for you, Mr.

Koberger.

And right when she fixed it, his whole demeanor changed.

Suddenly, he was a nice guy again.

He wasn't having this full-blown customer service attitude voice.

And not only just like thanking her and being like, oh my gosh, thank you so much.

Sorry, I freaked out, but like, I appreciate you correcting the mistake.

Instead, he starts flirting with her, like trying to flirt with the receptionist that he just went ape shit on and freaked out on, which that's kind of a red flag for me in and of itself.

The emotional switch up so fast.

I feel like going from aggression to then being charming, it can be a little bit manipulative.

Helps it kind of in line with him, like, and maybe this is a reach, but like being kind of an incel.

So, it's like girls are usually like not very fond of him or give him attention.

And then this girl like fixed his problem and was like nice to him.

So, that's an interesting take.

I mean, I was going to say, obviously, we know he always wants to be the smartest guy in the room.

He thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.

So, like, if somebody made a mistake, I could see where he like is, you know, reaming them and yelling at them.

But yeah, that is an interesting take.

Whereas then, once she resolves the issue and fixes it, he's like, Oh my god, this woman, she's actually being nice.

She knows my name, like, because he's such a loser, nobody knows his name, just like Kaylee's sister said in the sentencing, like,

no, but you don't matter, you know?

And so, maybe that's an interesting take.

But here's the thing: it gets even weirder because the very next day, this same woman bumps into him in the hallway, and out of nowhere, he starts talking to her, not to charm her, not to flirt with her, not to ask her out on a date or to coffee, but starts talking to her about knives.

Okay.

Knives and knife sheaths.

Okay, now I'm afraid.

Yeah, exactly.

Big red flag.

And specifically, he starts talking about self-defense weapons and how he collects knives, which, hi, that is not small talk as you're passing the ice maker in the hallway at like the hotel, you know?

I'm out of there.

I'm out of there.

Like, even if my friend started talking to me about that, I'd be like, get out of my face.

Like I don't like scram.

I don't want anything.

I don't want anything to do with you.

But if I was an employee and this guy who just went off on me 24 hours ago, then tried to flirt with me, chatting me up about knives.

Yeah, chatting me up about knives and knife sheets.

I'd be like,

get out, you know, like.

I want to kick you out.

Yeah, exactly.

It's just, yeah, it's weird guy stuff.

And what really freaks me out about all of this, too, is just the context of it all.

Because obviously now we know, didn't happen back then, but months later, in hindsight, that knife, that knife sheath, that was going to be central in this quadruple murder investigation just a few months later.

So, so that detail makes this whole interaction feel just strange and kind of chilling, almost a little ominous.

Because if you remember too, and Amy, I don't know if I told you about this, but I know everybody listening remembers this if you've been following the case.

There was a woman he met on Tinder as well, and they had talked about liking horror stories and were going back and forth.

And then he had asked her, you know, what do you think the scariest way to die would be?

They started talking about knives.

He brought up a K-bar knife, which we know was the murder weapon.

So it's like he had knives on the brain for months leading up to these murders.

It wasn't just like that was the murder weapon of choice.

He was thinking about knives and interjecting them into conversation with females.

Which I understand testing the waters and gauging reaction and like the shock factor.

If it is maybe someone you're dating talking about these horror movies, it feels somewhat natural to have that as part of the conversation.

Not so alarming, but this hotel employee, I feel like there is no context.

So why would he?

Because he's a freak.

Yeah.

Because he's a freak.

You're right, though.

Okay.

I don't love horror movies, but I have had that conversation with probably more people than I can count and more times than I can count.

It was like, what is your biggest fear of like the way you're going to die?

Mine is always burning or drowning, even though they say drowning is the most peaceful, but like burning.

I don't know why I said this on an Instagram story over the summer, but like, and I'm not trying to make light of it at all, but like, I don't know if you're this way.

I don't feel, I feel like I have superhuman strength sometimes to where like in my mind, I feel like if someone shot me in the shoulder or something,

I remember this.

I feel like I could like

muscle through it.

Is that crazy?

Or like if I get hit by the body.

I mean, your adrenaline, I feel like, is pretty strong compared to even most people.

So I could see yourself like rising from the dead.

I definitely could see that.

But

I don't even know why I just brought that up because that has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

I guess, let me backpedal.

I guess my whole point was that.

Where is this going?

I don't know where this is going.

I'm going off the rails again.

No, because I've had those conversations where, oh, that's.

Bring it back, Annie.

I've had those conversations where it's like you talk with your friends or people about like what your worst fear is or how like what the worst way to die would be.

But I've never gone as far as being like, Yeah, if I got shot by a Glock

22 with a hollow

bullet, I don't know if that's real.

I was just gonna say, wow,

I have no idea, like that I could come through it.

Whereas he's like bringing up K-bar knives, all of a sudden, it's too specific.

Yeah, and it's weird.

And for anybody who thinks I'm a freak right now, saying I can muscle through a gunshot, like I am a freak.

But you know what?

I will say this too before I move on.

I had so many people reply to that story on my Instagram saying they felt the exact same way.

I mean, mindset is everything.

Whereas I'd lay down and just close my eyes.

You're like, I'm calling it.

Where I'd, like you said, rise from the ashes and be like, you motherfucker.

Like, she's gone.

Nope.

Yeah.

Which it's like, obviously, we know that's not how it would play out.

But like, in my mind, I feel like I'm stronger than I probably am in real life.

So anyway, back to the hotel situation.

It didn't lead to any legal trouble for Brian.

There were no charges filed because, obviously, I mean, it's just uncomfortable chatter.

It's nothing super serious.

But when you zoom out of this whole thing and start to look at the big picture, it is one of those, I don't know if you'd call it missed moments, maybe something like that.

Maybe like, could this have been a warning sign?

If somebody had been made aware of how big of a freak this guy was, would I, nobody would have been able to intervene and stop it.

But like, it just gives you that pause because when you really stop and think about it, there was this man, this this man, Brian specifically, who was acting erratically, switching emotions on a dime, talking about knives to a complete stranger, all in the same town where he would later, well, not be arrested, but lived.

He was arrested, obviously, in Pennsylvania, but later be tied to murdering four college students with a knife.

It is pretty chilling, especially given what we know now and the details of what he did just a few months later, which I get it.

I know hindsight is 2020, but I don't know.

It doesn't make it any less eerie to me.

It just kind of freaks me out.

That is weird.

It is weird.

Now, there's another story I want to talk about that a lot of you guys have been in my DMs about.

And it's in a rural town, which you know, I hate saying that word because I don't know what that is.

It's weird.

It's so weird.

Can you say it?

Rural.

Rural.

Whoa.

Did anyone else see that?

Because I saw that up close and it was really weird.

Your face.

A rural town.

Okay, don't back up.

You're already like two feet away from me.

Okay, so as I said, a lot of you guys have been requesting this.

So you might have actually seen some headlines floating around about this next case, even if you aren't somebody who specifically requested it.

But the whole situation started back in December of 2021.

And it's when a father and his three children vanish from New Zealand's North Island.

Now, recently, it seems like they're back in the headlines again, though, years later, because now they have allegedly been seen on CCTV footage breaking into a rural town store rural town store rural town store say it five times fast danny so let me give you some context thomas phillips tom for short has been on the run with his three kids jada maverick and ember since 2021 and this is after what appears to have been a custody dispute gone wrong tom reportedly had lost custody of the kids and instead of complying with the court orders, he disappeared.

Now I will say this, not trying to give him any props or credit.

At least it wasn't a situation where he was, you know, denied custody and then decided to annihilate his entire family.

Not that this makes it any better being on the run.

It's a whole different kind of painful and a whole different kind of torture, but like, at least.

these kids are still alive.

So he disappeared completely into like this rugged New Zealand bush, all with like his kids in tow.

And I don't mean they just went there to go camping or like get off the grid for a while.

They've been off the grid for three years now.

I know.

No school, no medical care, no family visits.

How is that even possible?

Nothing.

I don't know.

The only reason that we even know that they're still out there is because they do seem to randomly appear in situations like this one that I'm talking about now.

So last week on August 27th, new CCTV footage surfaced from that rural store, as I mentioned, in a town called POPO in the Waidemo district.

And what this footage shows is pretty strange because there's two masked individuals believed to be Tom and one of his three children, and they're caught breaking into this store at 2 a.m.

They ride up to this store on like a quad bike, which is one of those like, you know, dirt, not dirt bike motorcycles, but like a quad, four wheels, I guess that's kind of self-explanatory, like, Annie, why are you treating the audience like they are dummies?

Like a quad bike, okay?

So they pull up on this quad bike and then they force their way in with what the police are saying is a grinder now i don't know if that's like

a handsaw or you know what i thought a grinder was more of like a big machine you think they're bringing a big machine on no that's why when you said grinder that's what i was picturing let me see i i'm searching grinder on my phone and well yeah that's a different kind of grinder

about that search oh great a grinder a machine used for grinding something oh thank you i could have told you that urban dictionary or whatever.

Like, let me see, grinder tool.

Well, they're not going to bring a meat grinder to this story.

That's the only grinder that I know about.

Okay, no, it is exactly what I saw.

You know what?

I've got to give myself more credit, honestly.

What is it?

It's like a hand saw, and it has like a big circular, like, saw-type grinder.

Oh, I'm nervous.

I'm going to show it to the peeps at home.

Okay, so yeah, so they break into the store with what's a grinder.

They grab supplies, and then they're in and out of there within 13 minutes.

There was no violence.

There were no weapons, just this like quiet, intentional theft inside this store.

The two minutes of CCTV footage has a familiar feel.

Police believe it's fugitive Tom Phillips out on a burglary.

It's the early hours of Wednesday morning.

They say Phillips has a child in tow.

The second time police believe he's targeted the Pior Pior cigarette.

We're confident that that's Tom Phillips and one of his children.

Phillips and the child cover their faces, but spend some time looking towards the CCTV camera before heading back to their quad bike and grabbing a grinder, both of which detectives believe Phillips may have stolen.

Sparks fly as the padlock is cut and the pair enter.

The Superete owner told Three News Today, they got into the chiller but set off the alarm.

They grabbed milk and fled on the quad bike.

Now, while you can't see the faces of the people in the CCTV footage, police do believe that this confirms that Tom and the kids are still alive and still out there.

But this time, it kind of raises a new red flag.

Because up until now, sightings have been sporadic, but mostly peaceful.

Nothing like theft or breaking in or anything like that.

And now some of these recent sightings have shown some signs of criminal behavior, even arguably criminal behavior that's escalating and now potentially children being used in these crimes.

Could it be, you know, that they're running out of resources, that they're getting desperate?

And we know criminals, when they're feeling desperate and in these like boxed in situations, it never ends well.

And this, sure enough, isn't the first time that Tom has been linked to criminal activity.

See, back in September of 2023, he was also accused of participating in an armed bank robbery.

He allegedly entered the bank with a weapon, a firearm to be exact, demanded money, and then escaped on a motorcycle.

He's also connected to another attempted, but failed, store break-in in late 2023.

So we're not just talking about a dad here who's like running from the courts and trying to be with his kids.

We're talking about a wanted fugitive, someone facing charges including aggravated robbery, aggravated wounding, and possession of an illegal firearm, all while hiding his three children.

And that's the thing I want to just kind of like hyper-fixate on a moment here.

They are kids.

When they disappeared back in 2021, they were 9, 10, and 12 years old.

How is he getting away with this if he's been seen and like in trouble?

I think it's more of like they catch him on this CCTV footage places after it's too late.

He's already fled at that point once they see the footage or once there's proof of the break-in.

But it does beg the question of like, how hard could it be to find him with three kids?

I don't know.

And I mean, it begs the question if somebody's been helping him live off the grid for this long.

Maybe now because he's desperate and breaking into these stores, maybe that person is no longer helping him, or maybe they had a falling out, or and so he's resorting to things like bank robbery and store theft.

I don't really know.

But the biggest piece in all of this, and the one aspect that the police are most concerned about, is of course the well-being of the kids, right?

Jada, Maverick, and Ember haven't had access to education, to health care.

They're most likely being raised in complete isolation off the grid, too, which, you know, that's really tough.

And at least one of the children also has asthma, which raises serious questions about their safety if they're like out there in the elements and in the wilderness.

So police and child welfare services say that their top priority is getting the kids back home safe.

And the family members, everybody who's still back at home, they have begged for Tom to bring these kids back.

Just a few weeks ago, before this incident, Tom's sister even went on this TV show in New Zealand called Patty Gower Has Issues, and she did this in an attempt to plead with Tom to come back, hoping that he would see it.

Which I just can't imagine what that feels like.

Watching these clips on the news, knowing that your missing family members are out there, they're alive, but you have no way to reach them.

You have no way to reunite with them.

Why are you talking now after being quiet for four years?

In the hope that just maybe,

maybe he's going to see this and maybe

he's going to get to see

that

he can come home and that we are here for him and it might just be okay.

Your mum has wanted you to do this?

Yep.

And

she's got a note

that she wants you to read to Tom.

So these words

are from...

From a mother's heart,

just to her son.

Tom,

I feel really sad that you thought you had to do this.

not considering how much we love you and can support you.

It hurts every time I see photos of the children and of you and see some of your stuff that is still here,

thinking what could have been if you had not gone away.

Jada, Maverick, Ember.

I love you so much.

and really miss being part of your lives.

Every day

I wake up and hope that today will be the day that you will come home.

So, currently, there is an $80,000 reward for any information that leads to Tom's arrest or the safe recovery of his children.

He is believed to be hiding somewhere in that Waitemo district.

And so, I mean, I guess that would be the place to look.

They think he possibly has help from others as well, though it has not been confirmed.

But the longer that this goes on, obviously, the more dangerous that it becomes, right?

Not legally for Tom, but the physical and the mental well-being of the kids.

This has now moved far beyond just a custody battle or a custody dispute.

And it's no longer just a missing persons case.

Like this is getting dangerous.

So I'll be following this case very closely as it continues.

But what we covered today is kind of barely scratching the surface.

I just had so many requests in my DM.

So I wanted to at least get you guys the update.

So for those listening, let me know if you do want to see a deep dive on this case because there is so so much that has happened here with the disappearances, the reappearances, the thefts, the assaults.

I mean, it's kind of all over the place.

So definitely let me know if you want that deep dive.

And like I say, I like to consider myself a podcaster of the people.

So if you want the deep dive, I am curious enough to give it to you.

I want to give you a phone call like about the divorce and where the mom and rest of the family is and how they haven't been able to locate him.

Totally.

Yeah, we can do the deep dive.

Do it.

Do it.

Do it.

Do it.

Okay.

Well, now I'm going to take a break for a second because my voice is getting hoarse from talking so much and I need to shut up for a minute.

So why don't you take away this?

Let me have a turn.

Yeah.

Give me a churn.

Give me a churn.

Okay, well, this next case is coming out of Newport, Ritchie, Florida.

And it's the case of Chuan Ying, huh, a 50-year-old woman who allegedly, and I say allegedly, but...

It's pretty much confirmed.

The details are solid.

She poured acid on her sleeping husband's body.

Yeah, it's just as horrific as it sounds.

She even barricaded the body in the bedroom after she poured the acid on his body.

So that he, like, what, couldn't escape?

I guess, yeah.

Wow.

I know.

So on August 21st, in Newport, Ritchie, police were called to a home on Slippery Rock Drive, responding to a 911 call from a woman who was Chuan Ying herself.

She had told the 911 dispatcher that she had hurt her husband using sulfuric acid.

Now, when they arrived, they found her standing outside of the house.

She told them she had poured acid onto her husband while he was asleep and then brought them into the house where they could hear Robert screaming in pain.

Robert was her husband.

So he was still alive when the police got there.

Yes, so basically, not only did she carry out the attack, but then she trapped him in the room afterwards, knowing full well what kind of agony he was in.

Inside the new poor Richie home, still taped off with a biohazard warning and an orange sticker, deeming it unsafe, detectives say Sean Ying-hee poured sulfuric acid on her husband, Robert Hayden, while he slept.

He was suffering burns over most of his body, chemical burns.

Investigators say he told 911 operators she poured it on Hayden to hurt him and that she tried to kill him several times.

Well, sure enough, when officers forced their way into the room, they found Robert Hayden, her 65-year-old husband, in complete agony, covered in chemical burns.

He was rushed to Tampa General Hospital with life-threatening injuries, and for a few days, it looked like he might survive.

But then, after a few days, just three days after the attack, sadly, he died from the injuries.

Oh my gosh, Keith, that is my fear.

Being burned, I always thought fire, but even that, like your skin melting off of you.

Well, if you're wondering what the motive could be, cheating.

Well, we see this in a lot of cases, divorce.

But here's what's crazy.

So Chuan Ying and Robert had been married for only about a year.

Wow.

I know.

I was surprised when I saw that too.

They tied the knot in August 2024, so just a year before, but things had clearly soured.

Court records show that Robert had filed for divorce in March, about five months prior to this attack.

So even way earlier on.

She's been married for five or six months.

Yep.

And had later filed an emergency motion for exclusive use and possession of their house.

Their divorce proceedings were ongoing and they had a hearing set for August 22nd, which was the day after this happened.

Oh, so that's she didn't want to go to the hearing.

The timing was of the essence.

She probably thought everything was getting ripped away from her, her house, any financial stability.

And like, yeah, I didn't want to go to this hearing and was just enraged.

So, yeah, it was pretty clear there was a lot of tension and turmoil in the relationship, even possible ongoing conflict.

And this wasn't just this spontaneous argument gone wrong.

Because, in fact, in the few days when Robert was still alive in the hospital, he told police that Chuan Ying had tried to kill him before, multiple times, in fact, which is

wild.

So, maybe, I mean, maybe, I don't know.

Well, obviously, maybe you'll tell me.

You'll be like, shut up.

I'll tell you the answer.

But like, if he had tried to get divorced so quickly in the marriage, maybe like she wasn't who he thought she was.

And she was kind of like chaotic.

And she moved into his house and everything.

And he's like, oh my gosh, she was this person.

Get out.

Yeah.

Oh, geez.

Elise had said they had been to the house multiple times for domestic violence calls.

And granted, we don't know.

the circumstances of those.

Obviously, those were red flags.

And like we were saying, probably he saw these red flags coming, wanted to get out.

And then now, upon this hearing, she took a very extreme approach.

And what's even more chilling, according to the police report, Chuan Ying had admitted that she had intended to kill him.

That was the goal of pouring this out.

Oh my gosh.

So it wasn't just an act of rage.

It was actually like an execution plan.

So, but

I mean, I guess this is a stupid thing to say again, but like

why that approach?

Exactly.

Like, why acid?

And look, when it's like to me, I'm like, is that a guarantee?

And I know that sounds terrible, but...

I just Googled like, what is sulfuric acid used for?

And it says it's used for primarily for fertilizer production.

Well, and I feel like

you're going to get caught.

That's what I'm saying.

That feels like a very,

I mean.

I mean, if your goal was to kill him, yeah.

Maybe she was just like scrambling and she didn't own a weapon.

And so she was.

Maybe the goal wasn't to not get caught.

It was to get caught because she's the one that called 911.

That's true.

And she just wanted him to suffer.

She didn't want to be quick.

If I can't have him, no one can.

I don't like any of this.

That's scary.

It's so scary.

Well, she was originally arrested on aggravated battery charges, but after Robert passed away, those charges were upgraded to first-degree murder.

And as of right now, Chuan Ying is sitting in jail with no bond and prosecutors are treating this as premeditated, intentional, and incredibly violent, which obviously it was.

Yeah.

And it's probably likely that she's going to spend the rest of her life in prison.

But it seems like that's not even going to phase her.

Like she wanted this.

Well, yeah, I think she, yeah, I wonder how she's feeling now.

If this was, I mean, obviously it's not worth it, but all of this, and now she's in jail.

So what do we say?

I'm going to give you the opportunity.

What's the tagline?

Just get a divorce.

There we go.

There we go, O'Brien.

There we go.

Well, yeah.

So, I mean, we'll keep an eye on this one.

And I have a feeling like the full story will come out because obviously there's a backstory.

There were other police visits to the home.

And I'm sure, I mean, I don't know if we'll have an interview from her to see what she was thinking, if she did this with the intention of like, I'm going to get caught and I just want out or what the situation was.

Wow.

But either way, it was brutal and he died in like this crazy, unimaginable way.

Your worst nightmare.

Literally my worst nightmare.

So obviously our thoughts are with his family.

Yeah, absolutely.

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Okay, now this next story.

I first saw it pop up on, I can't remember if I saw it on my YouTube feed, on like my Yahoo feed, where I saw it pop up.

And I feel like when I read it, I wasn't understanding the layers to it.

And then I started getting the tags, the tags on TikTok, the tags on Instagram, all of you guys messaging me being like, What the hell is going on here?

Have you seen this?

And it's about an 11-year-old girl who gave birth to her stepfather's baby.

It gets worse.

The parents and the grandparents ended up being arrested as being complicit in this whole thing.

It's sick, sick.

Where was this?

Well, sorry, chill.

I have so many people.

Oklahoma.

Chill.

So I've got, I've received a lot.

Like I said, I've received a lot of requests and I have covered a lot of very difficult and very heartbreaking cases on this channel, this podcast.

But this one is especially disturbing to talk about and hear about.

And like I said, it's coming from Muscogee County, Oklahoma.

So this child, 11 years old, a child having a child, which is just awful.

And when you learn about what really happened behind closed doors, like i said there were so many layers to it that i felt like i was getting it wrong i felt like there's no way that like i'm seeing and reading what i'm reading and it just kept getting worse and worse so just trigger warning for everyone if you just ate you're probably gonna vomit it all up it's gonna make you sick to your stomach so this case started on august 16th and it was when this 11 year old little girl was brought to the hospital after she delivered the baby at home oh my god there was no medical support no doctors nothing now this little girl gave birth on her own in a home that the police also later described as unsanitary, unfit, even dangerous.

In fact, at the time, both of her parents alleged that they didn't even know that she was pregnant.

They said they had absolutely no idea, which get this, this girl hadn't been to any doctor, any doctor of any sort in over a year, meaning she obviously had no prenatal care as well, but like no medical care whatsoever.

And how do you not know that your 11-year-old daughter is pregnant?

Which I will, I mean, how do you not know that she's growing a human inside of her?

But I will say this: when I start to tell you what this house was like and the conditions, it doesn't really surprise me that these parents may not have clocked certain things because it seems like they just didn't give a shit about anything.

But also, we'll get to them being arrested because I think they did clock it.

So, let's start with the father of this baby.

Police confirmed through a DNA test that the father of this baby with this 11-year-old little girl was a 34-year-old man named Dustin Walker, the stepfather to this 11-year-old little girl.

I know.

And let me say this, the match was 99.9%.

So there's no gray area.

There's no room for interpretation or, you know, margin of error or anything like that.

And this wasn't some unknown situation.

This wasn't like confusion.

It was clear.

This man.

who was supposed to protect this child was the one who got her pregnant.

But what's worse is that the girl's mother and grandmother, Cherie and Michelle, knew what was going on allegedly.

Wow.

So prosecutors say that they either knew or at the very least should have known.

But like I said, when they took this girl to the hospital, everyone was denying that she was pregnant, saying they had absolutely no idea.

They were so shocked, they had no clue.

But the grandmother, Michelle, also claimed that the girl had been telling everyone that the father of her baby was a 12-year-old little boy that she used to babysit.

Which, let me just pause that for a moment.

Even if she was saying that, you knew she was pregnant then, unless you're saying that she was just saying this once she got to the hospital, you know.

An 11-year-old is babysitting a 12-year-old,

right?

Doesn't really the math doesn't math, I guess.

Yeah, when you say that, it just the whole thing makes no sense.

But we didn't know this was happening,

none of us.

How do you think your granddaughter got pregnant?

She keeps telling us that it was

the little 12-year-old boy that I used to keep my babysit.

She keeps telling her

body

that it was him.

They got curious.

That's all I know.

Now, here's where we talk about the home conditions, okay?

There were six children in that home, all ages starting at two through 11.

And when I tell you, this is like a whole new house of horrors, it's awful.

They were living in filth.

There was no running water.

There were animal feces on the floor.

Some kids were found with no clothing at all.

So it wasn't just this sexual abuse that was happening, arguably inside the home, but it was neglect all across the board.

The house was almost just kind of like a ticking time bomb.

Like it was only a matter of time before they got caught for doing something or like,

you know, they were exposed for what the conditions of this house were.

And the children's grandmother lived right across the street.

And apparently, she knew about the conditions of the house.

She helped take care of the kids sometimes, too, because they had no running water in their own home.

So she would help, which is like, be a good grandma, intervene, and like figure it out.

You know, like, there's six kids in this house, one as young as two years old.

Like, what are you even doing?

But no matter what anyone said or did to try and get these kids' help, nothing was ever done.

And one neighbor in particular even said that she had called multiple times with concerns about the conditions of the house and with outright worry for the children like we all say if you see something or know something say something and this neighbor did she called multiple times with concerns trying to raise the alarm on this oh good for her i know this is getting to me and i've talked i said they're not doing nothing They're not helping them kids.

And I've called.

While I spoke with Cheryl Atkins, I noticed this lady filming across the street, but I continued on with the interview.

They have no running water for the last two or three years.

They have dogs in the house.

They have cats in the house.

Six children.

When we got to the home, there was some trash in the yard, a broken window, and a bungee cord holding the door locked.

The oldest is 11, and everybody else is younger.

Now going back to this 11-year-old little girl, just think about that.

In the months leading up to this birth, just being all alone, isolated, not in like an environment where you feel supported or taken care of or even clean.

I mean, can you- not feeling well?

No,

just the confusion of it all, the pain, the fear, everything that was happening to her body, how she even got to that point of being pregnant, not getting any help, like kind of just surviving it.

And while you're living with your stepdad, it's awful.

Then, when she finally gave birth inside that disgusting house of horrors home, she was probably terrified in pain.

And then just trying to wrap your mind around it.

Like, hell, I gave birth in a hospital that was very nice with an epidural.

And like, that was still hard.

Yeah.

Can you imagine?

And I'm in my 30s.

Could you imagine an 11-year-old in that house of filth, no medication, no doctor, no parent to support you?

Like, it is so sad.

It is, I don't even know, there needs to be a new word.

It is just.

So incredibly sad.

I know.

So then after she delivers the baby, they then bring her to the hospital.

And sure enough, that's when the truth came out.

Both Dustin and Cherie Walker were arrested, as well as the grandmother, Michelle.

Yep.

And both of the parents are currently being held on a $100,000 bond each, and they're facing child neglect and sexual abuse charges.

And the grandmother is also facing six counts of child neglect.

Meanwhile, all six kids have been removed from the home and they've been placed into protective custody, which, like, thank God.

Yeah.

But get this: Cherie, the mom, is pregnant with their seventh child.

And she's due very soon.

I know.

Can you imagine?

I mean, obviously.

I wonder what she's thinking.

Do you think that she knew that he was the father?

I don't know.

I need to get more.

I need to dig into it a little deeper.

Part of me feels like it's giving Madeline Soto vibes.

And I know you are not as familiar with that case.

A lot of the listeners are.

You've actually heard me talk about it on tour a few times because of like Stephan Stern's statement that made my skin crawl.

And it kind of gives me vibes like that where either she knew and was aware and did nothing to stop it, or at the very least, like the prosecutor says, had an idea and should have known given the circumstances.

So I don't know.

I need to dive in a little bit more before I can like outright be like, you knew every single thing that was happening and you were complicit.

But like, obviously they have arrested her and in what they believe is warranted.

And it's just sad because now this baby obviously will be taken away from the parents.

They're both in jail.

All of these kids.

It's not even like they can go to a grandmother who cares for them.

The grandmother neglects it.

The mother who's caring for this baby.

I know.

So they have a hearing this week.

So there will be more updates.

And I'll do, I probably will end up doing a deep dive into this because it's like, what is really going on here?

This is just so sick and twisted.

And I wonder what Dustin's going to say about all of this.

Like, obviously, the DNA has now proven you are the father.

As like Maury or Montel Williams would say.

And so it's like, so what's your excuse if they try to?

There is none.

Well, no, no, no, I know.

That was terrible.

No, but like,

I guess, yeah, what, what will he try to come up with as reasoning?

Not that anything would excuse it, but like in the Madeline Soto case, for example, her mom said

that Madeline only slept well when she slept next to Stephan in bed and stuff like that.

And it's like, you're the mom.

Like figure out.

So is he going to be like, she, she only would like cuddle with me and she came on me.

Like, I just wonder what they're going to try to spin with this because now it's proven, it's there.

The DNA doesn't lie, you know?

And so, what else are we going to learn?

And have any of the other children been subjected to this?

Are any of the children other

children's children that they were all in the house?

Like, is this poor girl going to school during this time?

It's all very unclear.

Nobody's probably not

probably not.

I don't know.

It's awful.

It's, I know, it is.

Poor girl, I can't even imagine.

I know.

It is beyond.

So that is what we have got this week for headline highlights.

I know that it was a lot.

I know that it was a ton to digest, but unfortunately, there is no shortage of like scum of the earth human beings out there.

So I appreciate you guys all sticking with us.

Amy and I will be at Crime Con this weekend.

If you are there too, come by, say hello.

And other than that, we will see you when we get back out on the road and head to Texas.

It's going to be a good time in Texas.

I'm excited.

All three.

So, like, what?

Dallas, Houston, Austin.

I don't know how far apart all of those are.

But like Phoenix.

And then Phoenix, which Phoenix is going to be a really

big one.

Yeah, that's going to be a very big one for reasons I shall not say.

All right, guys.

Thank you so much for tuning in.

I will be back on the mic with you on Monday with an all-new deep dive into a case.

Another one that you have been sliding all up in my DMs about and finally breaking it down and covering it.

So I will talk to you on Monday, but until then, be nice.

Don't kill people.

Don't join any cults.

And stay with me.

Say it with me, Amy.

Just get a divorce.

Just get a divorce.

All right.

Bye, guys.

Bye.

Sucks!

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