324: Proof Laken Deleted Photos, Karen Read’s PISSED & DoorDash Driver Delivers Hatchet & Zip Ties

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hey true crime besties welcome back to an all new episode of serialously

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialously with me, your true crime bestie, Annie Elise, here to break down everything that is going down in the true crime world this week.

And like I always say, I feel like now it's just kind of a part of the intro.

There is a lot to talk about.

We've got new cases, breaking cases, updates in cases, so much to go over.

However, before I jump into some of the like big updates that I want to give you, I want to give you a quick reminder, hitting the road again next week, back out on tour.

We are down to our final five shows.

And next week we are going to be in Tampa, Florida and Orlando, Florida.

I think Tampa might be sold out.

Don't quote me on that.

I think the meet and greets maybe have two left.

Anyways, very few tickets left.

So go to annieelise.com now, get those tickets.

I will see you next week in Tampa and in Orlando.

And then the week after, or maybe it's a week and a half later, Tacoma, Washington, Portland, Oregon, and San Francisco.

So you can get those tickets as well right now.

actually, Tacoma is sold out.

I hate to break it to you.

So again, if you want to go, guys, the final five shows, I don't think I'll be going back out on tour next year.

We'll probably wait a full year.

So now would be the time to snag those tickets and hang with me in person while we talk about some cases face to face.

So that being said, I want to first get into an update in the Karen Reed story and Karen Reed case.

And I actually wasn't expecting to jump on the mic and give you any sort of updates regarding Karen Karen in the near future, but here we are.

So she is back in court.

This time it's because she's facing a wrongful death lawsuit from John O'Keeffe's family.

This was filed back in August of 2024.

The O'Keeffe family, for those of you who aren't familiar, I don't think I need to give the whole backstory.

I think most of you guys know about the Karen Reed case, but...

John O'Keefe was her boyfriend who was unfortunately killed that night.

So the O'Keeffe family said that Karen had caused them emotional distress by, quote, fabricating her own conspiracy, you know, fabricating her own thoughts and story about what ultimately led up to John's death, and also for quote, launching a public campaign of disinformation.

Now, Karen's attorney, Alan Jackson, asked the court to dismiss part of the lawsuit, saying, you know, they don't have the standing to pursue emotional distress or damages because they didn't witness John O'Keefe's death or see his body until after he had already been declared dead at the hospital.

So the judge is taking both sides into consideration and he will give his ruling at a later date.

The next hearing hearing is scheduled for November 21st, but in lieu of that, or not even in lieu of that, but I should say like, what's the expression?

Opposite of that or sidestep to that.

I don't really know what term is, but adjacent to that.

That's what we'll say.

Alan Jackson also confirmed that Karen plans to sue the Massachusetts state police, as well as many people who testified as witnesses in her trial earlier this year.

Some of those people, just to name a few, Michael Proctor, otherwise known as the biggest douchebag who ever walked the face of the earth, Brian Albert, Nicole Albert, Matthew McCabe, Jennifer McCabe, and Brian Higgins.

So it's gonna be really interesting to see how this all shakes out and what's so crazy too about this.

Obviously, this case was extremely polarizing for a ton of different reasons, but there's now book deals in place, movie deals in place, TV series in place, all while these civil lawsuits are also still ongoing.

And I wonder what's going to happen with all of these lawsuits.

I understand wanting to recoup some of the money or, you know, being upset and angry because of

your perception of how things transpired and how it was a smear campaign against you and how all these witnesses were lying.

And the truth is, a lot of them did freaking lie, right?

I mean, talk about the butt dials that happened non-stop in the middle of the night or deleted phone history, deleted searches, all sorts of things like destroyed cell phones.

Like it looks shady, right?

So I don't know.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens here.

If Karen gets any wins with the civil lawsuits, I think we already know she won in the criminal case.

So like, let's see what happens here.

And I wonder too, in those, if we will at all learn any additional information that maybe wasn't allowed to be entered during the trial.

I don't know what that would necessarily be.

I'm not an expert.

I'm not her attorney, but wondering if like, as they go against, you know, the McCabes or Higgins, is there going to be other information that surfaces or is brought to light in terms of their communications or anything like that?

So, I don't know.

It's a lot to keep up with.

So, I will be keeping my eye on it.

Now, in other news, I want to talk with you about Lakin Snelling for a minute.

Now, as a reminder, Lake and Snelling is a 21-year-old former University of Kentucky student, and also she was on the stunt cheer team, and she is from White Pine, Tennessee.

So, she's currently the subject of an ongoing criminal criminal investigation after a newborn infant was found dead inside a closet at a Lexington, Kentucky residence that Lake lived in.

This was back on August 27th, 2025.

Now, it was unknown if this baby was born full-term, stillborn, if there was any sort of issue with the delivery.

We don't really know what took place.

An autopsy was completed, but the coronavirus.

coroner had described the cause of death as inconclusive, saying it was pending further analysis.

But in the meantime, after Laken delivered this baby, shoved him inside a closet, and he was discovered, she's been arrested and charged with abuse of a corpse, tampering with physical evidence, and concealing the birth of an infant.

Now, we've talked about this before.

I think we even actually did a deep dive into this.

I know we've talked about this case on headline highlights.

Maybe we did a deep dive.

If we did do a deep dive, I will link it in the show notes.

But anyway, if you want to catch up, you could probably just search my name and Lake and Snelling and get the whole story.

I wanted to give you just like, you know, a little snip of the backstory because now new court documents have been released and they detail Laken's account of giving birth.

So the Lexington Police Department reports that in a search warrant for Laken's phone, they found evidence that quote, included different things pertaining to pregnancy, images of her during labor, photos of her doing things ordinary pregnant women should not be doing, and also a concealed or hidden pregnancy.

They also believe that other other pieces of information may have been deleted relating to the pregnancy and related to quote the birth of the full-term baby.

Because that's really been the million-dollar question through all of this: was she full-term?

Was she hiding her pregnancy?

Was she trying to hide the delivery of this baby?

What really happened and what transpired?

Because while she didn't make any formal announcement on social media, there certainly were images where she had her hand on her baby bump, where her boyfriend did at 1.2.

In some images and videos, she looked visibly pregnant.

But again, there was no formal announcement.

So there's this undertone argument of she either didn't know she was pregnant or she did, but she wasn't telling anybody.

And then the delivery went south and the baby, unfortunately, was born, stillborn.

There's all sorts of things.

And because the autopsy hasn't been able to determine what actually happened and what the cause of death was, she hasn't been charged with murder.

And it's kind of been this whole thing where they're trying to just like unravel the case and figure figure out as many details as they can.

So

going

back to the discovery of it all, Lakin's roommates apparently had heard a loud noise after she had given birth.

This was around 4 a.m.

on August 27th.

But Lakin told them that she just wasn't feeling good and that she passed out in the middle of the night.

Later, Lakin told medical staff that after giving birth, the baby, quote, made a whimper and that she, quote, guessed that he was alive.

However, she then told the the police that she didn't think that he was alive.

She went on to say that she passed out, she fell on top of the baby, and that when she woke up, he was quote, turning blue and purple.

So because of that, she wrapped him in a towel because she, according to her, thought that he was dead.

And then she laid with him on the floor because, according to her, it quote, gave her some comfort in that moment.

Then, as we know, she got up, put the baby, still wrapped in that towel, inside a trash bag, and then set it in the back of the closet.

That baby was then later discovered by the roommate after a dog had been scratching at the closet door, alerting her to something, and they opened the door.

There was a very foul odor.

They discovered the baby and that's who I believe called the police was the roommate.

So it's really interesting because we know that devices, especially when the forensic team gets involved, they carry a lot of information, right?

I'm not talking about just the photos and the videos, which they are saying have been deleted, but they've recovered, but any sort of digital communication with her boyfriend or her ex-boyfriend, any sort of search history about pregnancy, about hiding pregnancy, about delivering at home, devices carry just like an enormous amount of information.

So I think we're just scratching the surface here.

I think we're going to find out a lot more in the coming weeks and months.

So

I will definitely keep an eye out.

Reporters have been saying that the grand jury could consider the case in as early as October, so this month, but no specific grand jury date has been set and there there has been no public court date released either.

So just going to kind of wait and see, I guess, and keep our eyes on it and see where we go from here.

But obviously, very unsettling and disturbing.

With that, we have some new cases that I want to bring to your attention this week.

And I also am thrilled to announce that Amy Colette is back in studio joining us.

Wow, got the middle names.

A little formal.

I don't know.

A little formal.

Don't worry, guys.

I see all your comments all the time just blowing me up.

Where's Amy?

Where's Amy?

So, Amy's back, and there's actually a story that she DM'd me over the weekend that she's like, I want to talk to you about this.

It's crazy.

I'm all, well, don't talk to me about it.

Talk to the true crime besties about it.

So, yeah, welcome back.

Thanks.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah.

So,

hit us with this story.

All right.

Well, they say never trust a guy or a person with two first names.

Oh, that person has the same first and last name.

What?

This is Mohammed Muhammad out of Hoover, Alabama, who has been charged with a murder for hire for his whole family, which it's just as crazy as it sounds.

He's a 64-year-old man who lived in Alabama and had been married in 2021, divorced just a few months later, and had six adult children.

He was a plumber who ran his own business, and by all outward appearances, he seemed just to be a small business owner trying to make a living.

But in September of 2024, he was caught in the middle of an unthinkable plot to have his entire family murdered.

Muhammad sat down across from a man who he believed was a hitman, classic, and began discussing how much it would cost him to have his wife and six children killed.

So, yeah, you heard that right.

His own family, all of them.

And the reasoning is he told the hitman he felt his family had, quote-unquote, destroyed his pride and self-dignity.

Muhammad said that he would pay $20,000 for the murder murder of his wife and an additional $5,000 for each of his six children.

His words were, quote, your money maximum within two weeks.

20, not five, twenty because it's the big head.

The others, it's okay.

They are trash.

Cockroaches, you know, but this one deserves more.

I'll give it to you.

Muhammad gave him their addresses, descriptions of their vehicles, and said, You pick and choose who you're going to take out and get paid.

Start with one, take your time.

What Muhammad didn't know was that the man he thought he was hiring for the hit on his family was actually an undercover FBI agent.

They had set up the plan after they had received information that Mohammed had already asked one person to kill his family.

In fact, he asked this person multiple times.

They started investigating, organized this meeting, and Mohammed never realized he was dealing with law enforcement the entire time.

So, eventually, he was arrested and charged with seven counts of murder for hire, one count for each of the intended victims.

Each count carries up to 10 years in federal prison, meaning he could be facing up to 70 years behind bars.

The complete premeditation here is obvious.

I mean, he wasn't acting just suddenly on impulse.

He had asked one person when that person said no.

Then he went and asked this other person and sat down, calculated, and had this whole plan to have seven people murdered.

It's the kind of thing that makes you step back and just think, like, how did this get to this point?

And where red flags really started going off is when you look back at some of the other incidents that happened to his family things were not always as they appeared from the outside looking in in April of 2022 Muhammad was arrested and charged with stalking after he allegedly placed GPS tracking devices in his ex-wife's car violating a restraining order she had against him Then in January 2023, less than a year later, his son's pickup truck was set on fire near the driveway of his ex-wife's home.

And if you're thinking, wow, this guy really had it out for them, that's not all.

Because after his first son's truck was set on fire in September of 2023, another one of his son's vehicles and three others were found burned in a suspicious fire.

Things calmed down for a few months.

And then in December 2023, a friend of Muhammad's had called his ex-wife, trying to reconcile their marriage.

She obviously declined, and only 12 hours later, another vehicle at her house was set on fire.

So, obviously, this guy is psychotic.

That's six cars set on fire at his ex-wife's house, and at least three of them belonged to his children, which is crazy.

So, this guy obviously seems psychotic.

I mean, he's had six cars set on fire at his ex-wife's house, three of which were belonging to his children.

And while we don't know for sure him, it seems pretty suspicious.

And so, right now, Muhammad is in federal custody, waiting for a sentencing after pleading guilty.

That sentencing is set to happen on December 10th.

And this case has drawn national attention, as you could imagine, because of how extreme it is.

So we'll be on the lookout for sentencing in the next few months and bring you up to date when we have it.

But it's a wild one.

What a freak.

I know.

First of all, I'm glad he like pled guilty.

I mean, I know.

And I just know what the motive is.

No, I know.

And call your own kids cockroaches.

Get a grip.

And what'd they do to take away your pride?

I mean, maybe it's because Mohammed Mohammed.

Don't call me Annie Annie.

I mean, I feel like go after your parents, not your kids.

No, 100%.

Well, yeah, what did he say?

It was like his pride and dignity or something like that, which like, bro, get a grip.

I know.

I don't know.

That's really sick and sad, but I'm glad he pled guilty.

And I'm glad that, like, yeah, throw away the key.

We don't want you around.

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You probably have them too.

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My instincts were like on overdrive.

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Okay, so now we need to get into another wild and weird story.

And when I first heard this, I was kind of like, Am I reading this right?

Is this real?

What would I do in this situation?

It is freaking me out.

So picture this: you're a delivery driver in West Central Texas.

It's a Monday morning, just another routine, you know, drop-off, dropping off the goods at somebody's house or place of residence, whatever.

But when you pull up to the sweetwater inn and check the order that you're delivering, it's not food.

It's not even something mildly weird like toilet paper in bulk or weird, you know, rubber bands from CVS.

I just ordered rubber bands.

That's why I'm saying that.

But it's garbage bags, it's zip ties, it's bleach, and it's a hatchet.

Yeah, a freaking hatchet.

So immediately alarm bells started going off, right?

I mean, this driver knew that something wasn't right.

And instead of just shrugging it off and moving on with his day, he called it in.

And it was a a decision that may have saved a life.

So the police rushed to this motel and it was just before noon.

They look at the order, look at the contents, and then they look at who placed the order.

And it was placed by a 42-year-old man named Neil Cooper.

So when officers knocked on this motel room door, Neil refused to come out.

He claimed that he was armed.

And then came the chilling detail in all of this.

There was somebody possibly inside that motel room with him.

So now you have this deranged freak barricading himself inside this motel room who just ordered a hatchet, zip tides, and bleach.

Somebody else in that room with him, all while he's refusing to open the door or come out.

I mean, it's a hostage situation, right?

Now, at this point, officers knew they had to slow everything down.

So they began negotiating.

They were trying to keep Neil talking.

They were trying to just keep things calm.

But while they were outside and they were tense and they were waiting and they were trying to like move through everything appropriately, the hostage makes a move.

Somehow, they managed to escape the room and just run out and bolt to safety, which thank God.

But that's when Texas Department of Public Safety stepped in.

They sent in a crisis negotiator who was then able to convince Neil to surrender and surrender peacefully.

No shots fired, nobody hurt, which is great because as we know in this situation, it certainly could have ended in tragedy.

But instead, it ended in handcuffs on good old Neil.

Neil was arrested on the spot and charged with aggravated kidnapping.

But that wasn't all in all of this, because it turns out he also had multiple drug warrants out for him.

And then with all of this unfolding, in comes a twist that nobody saw coming.

That so-called hostage, the one that booked it and ran to safety, they weren't just a victim.

Police say that that person also had a warrant.

And when officers asked this hostage victim for their identity, they flat out refused.

Just said, no, I'm not giving you my name.

I'm not giving you my ID.

Like, get out of my face.

So they ended up being arrested too on failure to ID and for their own pending drug charges.

So in the end, I mean, it's just really interesting, right?

Cause you have this motel standoff, a hostage escape, two arrests, and this massive, massive thank you that is owed to this quick thinking delivery driver who's like, these, the contents of this bag is freaking weird, which I am just going to say really quick.

This story has certainly given me pause in what I order on DoorDash because I'm not somebody who just pulled DoorDash or Postmate Food.

I am such a troll that I'll have them send me all sorts of things.

Like I said, I just placed an order the other day for rubber bands at CDS and I did have trash bags, I guess, in that order too.

What else did I have?

Oh, I had a bunch of crunch for long because I wanted chocolate.

But like, you know what I mean?

Like maybe there are innocent deliveries, but it looks really bad when you look into.

I mean, I've never ordered a hatchet, so maybe I'm just like talking for fucking no reason.

But anyway, I know I've referred to the driver as a DoorDash delivery driver this whole time, but it turns out he wasn't a DoorDash delivery driver.

He was just an independent delivery worker, someone who really trusted his gut at the end of the day and refused to ignore the red flags and sprung into action and called the police.

Because again, here's the thing.

Like, how many times have we been in a situation where there's been like weird vibes and we brush them off and we tell ourselves like, oh, no, no, no, no, like it's nothing.

I'm overreacting.

I'm paranoid.

But this time.

that suspicion really paid off because who knows what would have happened in that hostage situation.

It seems like both of them were possibly on drugs or something like that, but who knows what could have happened?

I mean, clearly he was ordering bleach, zip ties, and a hatchet for a reason.

So they got the victim out of there.

They got a safe surrender from Neil.

And this guy did the right thing, which sounds cliche, but I'm going to say it again.

Always trust your gut because it is there to act as your first line of defense against anything and everything.

It kind of makes me think.

This is such a mom thing to say right now.

I'm like, wow, first line of defense.

Well, it is so true.

And you know what?

I don't know if you you were thinking of this as I was sharing that story.

Do you remember what happened in Phoenix last year?

I wasn't thinking about it, but I do remember.

So it wasn't a delivery driver, guys, but we called an Uber to pick us up from my Phoenix show last year.

And I don't even remember exactly what happened, but right from the jump, it was super sketchy.

I was sweating.

I had to get in the front seat for some reason, right?

Well, we thought you were going to have to get in the front seat because we had the pelican cases, but then we've configured the seats so you didn't.

But then he insisted you still get to the front which is what made you feel weird and then it was like a 20 minute drive to the hotel and yeah it was late it was like 11 o'clock at night and i was sitting in the front seat it was like dead silent and i look over and yeah he's profusely sweating and it wasn't hot guys and like uneasy like he was yeah he was uneasy his eyes kept like tracking like to the side of the highway then at me in the passenger seat and he's like sweaty and i was like i don't get super nervous all the time but i was like getting really nervous and i was not clocking it at all amy was in in the back seat just like.

I was on my phone.

Yeah.

Scroll on Instagram, doom scroll.

I'm in a daze.

Yeah.

I had no idea.

So then all of a sudden I say, what did I say?

I was all, you have the scissors or you have the blade, right, Amy?

Or like, you have the knife or the box cutter.

And I'm like, what is she talking about?

Yeah, well, you have the box cutter, right?

She's all, huh?

And then like, I was trying to give like sister, like, what is it?

Like innuendos.

Is that the word?

I don't know.

But like trying to get you to pick up on what I was feeling and i'm all you know the box cutter and the scissors you have those with you right like trying thinking that's gonna scare this guy if he's gonna kidnap us and murder us um no but then it got even weirder because you finally clocked what i was doing yeah and we we took the story to a whole new level and then i see annie like putting her hand on the glass bottle next to her oh my god no that was maybe that was me that reached for the glass

glass water bottle yeah and you were holding it by the head like the neck of the bottle i guess if we were gonna crank him over

what had initially made you scared.

So I thought maybe something really serious had happened that I wasn't aware of.

So I was just ready to go.

I had your back.

Well, and then we called our friend Chuck, my husband's best friend, who is with, he lives in Phoenix and he was with us that night filming.

And so I'm like, yeah, are you tracking me?

Like, we'll be there in 10 minutes.

Is everybody waiting for us?

Like, all this stuff, just like totally like doing anything we could to like make this guy nervous to like act out on anything.

But then, so we get to the hotel and we get out of the car.

Amy's unloading the pelican case, which those of you who don't know what a pelican case is, like this big ass, like black rubber-made container.

And we brought it with us on tour with like merch and things like that.

So she's like unloading.

The guy gets out of the car to help us unload the bags.

Then do you.

Donnie embraces him.

No, okay.

Hold on.

No, I did not embrace him for a hug.

Rewind.

He remember he was like, he wanted a really good tip.

And so he literally stood over my shoulder

and made and watched me in the app give him a tip and a rating to make sure I was giving him five stars and like a good tip.

And I was like scared out of my mind because I was like, even though we're back at the hotel, like you could still do something to me.

So I mean, I think I tipped him like 50 bucks or something like that.

And then he was so overjoyed by the tip that he gives me this massive hug.

And that's when I look up and that I we go from terrified and calling our friends to Annie's giving the guy a hug.

I'm like, can we just please go inside?

And he was still sweaty, which was disgusting.

And yeah, I like gave him this big tip.

But don't worry.

Afterwards, I like contacted Uber.

I'm like, this guy's maybe it's nothing, but like he freaked me out a little bit.

And I think we ordered Big Macs and went up to the room.

Typical Fountain Diet Coke and a Big Mac.

And all was well.

And all was well again in the world.

No, so.

I don't know what that has to do with DoorDash, but or this delivery driver story, but it just kind of...

I DoorDash the Big Macs.

We for sure did.

But it kind of just gave me a flashback to that moment where it's like, trust your gut.

In that case, thank God it wasn't panning out.

Long story short.

Long story short.

If you're ever in a situation where you feel like you're being threatened by an Uber driver, pretend you have a box cutter on you.

Say that people are tracking you.

Grab the glass water bottle by the neck to be prepared for anything to whack someone in the head and get to safety.

And then overdraft your account by giving yourself

because you're giving a big hug.

Stockholm syndrome right there.

Honestly.

Honestly.

Well, I'm going to go to the next one.

Can we get to the next story?

Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Go ahead.

This one's really bizarre.

It's a case out of Shelbyville, Indiana, and it's about a 28-year-old mom named Sophie Igo.

It's tragic.

It just honestly leaves you with a lot of questions.

On September 17th, just before 11 p.m., Sophie called 911 saying that her baby was dead and, quote, cold to the touch.

Police and medics rushed over to the house, and when they got there, Sophie was standing in the driveway with her 22-month-old son, Jasper.

Now, there are mixed reports on if she was actually holding Jasper or if he was lying in the driveway, but regardless, he was wrapped in a sheet.

And then, when responders got closer, they noticed immediately that Jasper had been dead for some time.

They tried everything they could to get him to breathe, but there was no way they were able to bring this baby boy back.

And that's where things get even more sad and twisted.

Investigators described Jasper's body as already being in a, quote, significant state of decomposition.

They also described Jasper as appearing severely malnourished.

His little body was so thin that his bones were visible and he had almost no body fat left at all.

So the level of decomposition of Jasper's body showed that he hadn't just passed away moments before Sophie made that 911 call, like she was trying to make it seem.

He had been dead for a while.

So when investigators confronted Sophie with this information, how Jasper was clearly dead for a lot longer than she was letting on, she acted shocked.

She started asking the investigators, Did I do this?

Am I going to jail?

Now, obviously, something didn't seem right here.

How could this mother not know that her son was dead, seemingly moments before this 911 call?

So, police searched the house to see if they could find any information that might help piece this together.

And what they found was horrifying.

Inside the house, officers described unsafe, unhealthy conditions for anyone to be living in, especially kids.

There was trash everywhere, bugs were crawling over every surface, and there was hoarder-like cluttering all over the house.

And what's worse, investigators even found, quote, decomposing matter inside Jasper's crib, which is where he would have slept.

When investigators interviewed Sophie, she said she had three kids, Jasper, a four-year-old, and an eight-year-old.

and that all the kids had lived with her since her ex-husband had moved out in November 2024.

She said that she had been taking care of the kids by herself for the last five weeks, weeks, and in just in the last 24 hours, Jasper had started throwing up and was having trouble eating.

Sophie said that she couldn't take her kids to the doctor because she was still, quote-unquote, trying to get her bearings as a single mom, and that Jasper hadn't been to the doctor since he was two months old.

In other words, he hadn't seen a doctor for over a year and a half, and he wasn't even two years old yet.

And I mean, I understand parenting is probably very difficult, but when your child is that sick and clearly thin and not gaining weight or even losing weight, that's when you need to call and get help.

So if Jasper was just two years old and just shy of that and had not had been to a doctor at all, that just begs the question, like, how long was this all going on and what was really going on in that house?

Now, the full autopsy results have not been released, but we do know that the Shelby County Coroner reported that Jasper was only 14 pounds.

four pounds more than he weighed when he was only two months old at his last doctor's appointment.

As for the cause and manner of death, that information is still pending while the coroner waits for toxicology and other test results to come back.

So Sophie is facing multiple counts of child neglect, including level one neglect of a dependent resulting in death.

And in Indiana, that's the most serious level of child neglect that someone can be charged with.

Her bond has been set at $2 million, and that really tells you just how serious the court's taking it, which is good.

And the heartbreaking part of all of this is that Jasper wasn't even two years old yet.

So So now people are left wondering, like I said earlier, how long has this been going on?

Why didn't someone step in sooner?

Does the ex-husband know about any of this?

And so we'll be tracking this one as well.

That is so disgusting for so many reasons.

And when you said he was 14 pounds, I was like.

It's literally like what you weighed when she came out.

So not quite, but like kind of.

No, but and then when you said the decomposing matter was found in his crib, I would guess, my guess would be she started neglecting these kids.

She didn't want to deal with being a mom.

Maybe she went into a depression after her husband left, which that's no excuse.

I wonder what the condition of the other two children is and if they look malnourished or if they were taken care of because maybe it was like the baby that she was resentful of and that because he didn't care for.

Yeah.

And because if you if she found decomposed, if they found decomposing matter in the crib, I think the argument could be that she obviously left him unattended for for

very long periods of time.

That's why you could see his bones.

That's why he only weighed 14 pounds and that he literally started decomposing while in that crib, which is so sick and twisted.

And like, I wonder what those kids saw.

I mean, they're young too, but like, I wonder what they saw in that.

I just don't understand why people don't just, if you're not wanting to be a parent.

just vocalize that and get help.

Yeah.

Maybe there, maybe there will be more information like if she was in some sort of psychosis or not even post-part of psychosis, but something to, because if she said to them, like, did I do this?

Am I going to jail?

Maybe like, you know how, I don't know what the term is, but you know how there's like those dolls out there that people have where they like think it's a real baby or they do it as like a level of comfort because there's some sort of psychosis like that makes them think that they are a parent.

Like I'm wondering, was there something maybe where she like didn't realize I don't know or like thought was okay.

It was completely like disassociated from being a parent to that child.

But that's why I would be curious to know the condition of the other kids and like, wow, that's fucking awful.

Awful.

Well, okay, that was a really shitty note to end on.

Sorry about that.

No, that's okay.

Wow.

All right.

Well, thank you guys so much for tuning in this week with us.

As a reminder, last few tour dates on the calendar, get those tickets now at annieelise.com.

Amy will be there too.

So you'll get to see her in all her glory working the booth and the booth.

Like wheeling and dealing or like, I don't know.

Isn't it the sound booth?

oh

what do you think of that I don't know I'm like are we going back to Crime Con no I know

I don't know whatever fuck it um but yeah so get those tickets now at AnnieElise.com also as a reminder if you have not listened to Monday's episode yet I dropped two deep dives on Monday just feeling so generous

no honestly I don't it's psychotic no I we did a full deep dive into everything going on with the singer David Celeste Hernandez, the body found in his trunk, all the weird circumstances and things that don't make sense.

We did a full deep dive into that.

We also put out another deep dive into the Ellen Greenberg case.

And I know you're familiar with that one, but a new docuseries just went out on Hulu called Death in Apartment 603.

And it's all about the Ellen Greenberg case.

And if you haven't heard of this case, you need to listen to Monday's deep dive because how anybody is ruling this a suicide is like beyond.

There's no way.

This girl in her 20s had 20 stab wounds to the back of her head and like and back and neck.

And not to mention the 911 call that her fiancé made.

It's still, I listened to it again last night.

It literally sends a chill down my spine.

And you look, he hasn't officially been named a suspect.

He hasn't been arrested, but I will.

This is wild.

It's wild.

But I talk in the episode about why I think that is.

And

The medical examiner, so when it all went down, at first it was ruled homicide, then it was switched to suicide.

Now the medical examiner has changed their opinion again, saying they do believe it's a homicide.

Finally.

I know, because her parents have just like not stopped.

We actually had them involved in this episode, so you'll hear directly from them.

But just a reminder, those two episodes both released on Monday, so you can go back and binge.

And another announcement, if you're not following the podcast yet, you're going to want to take a second.

Open up your podcast app, whatever one you're listening, Apple, Spotify, wherever it is, press the follow button.

Because on Monday, I am dropping a mega announcement.

And all of you watching this on YouTube, subscribe because the announcement will be here as well.

It's a mega one.

It's a big one.

It's a big one.

It's about it's going to change everything.

Will mom talk survive this?

Oh my gosh.

Okay.

It's a big one, though.

It is a very big one.

Yeah.

But

if you're not following, you're not going to get the announcement.

So follow.

All right, guys.

Thank you so much for tuning in.

Is there anything I'm missing?

I think you covered it.

This was a big one.

This was a big daddy episode.

Ew.

Why did I say that?

I know.

I'm grossed out.

I'm so grossed out for myself.

All right, guys.

Thank you so much for tuning in.

I will be back with you on Monday with an all-new deep dive.

Until then, be nice.

Don't kill people.

Don't join any cults.

Don't just be a shitty person.

Get a divorce.

Get a divorce.

Just get a divorce.

Okay.

Bye.

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Suffs!

The new musical has made Tony award-winning history on Broadway.

We demand to be home!

Winner, best score!

We the man to be seen!

Winner, best book!

We the man to be qualified!

It's a theatrical masterpiece that's thrilling, inspiring, dazzlingly entertaining, and unquestionably the most emotionally stirring musical this season.

Suffs!

Playing the Orpheum Theater Theater October 22nd through November 9th.

Tickets at BroadwaySF.com.