#212 Katarina Szulc - Inside the Cartels' Secret Smuggling Operation in Port of Vancouver

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Katerina Schultz, Sean Ryan, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me.

Man, you are getting some like amazing content down there with the cartels and reporting on all that stuff.

So I can't remember how I found you.

I think it was my producer, Jeremy.

I'm curious to know what it was that sparked your guys's interest.

Yeah, I think my producer found you.

And so, anyways, we've been tracking you probably probably for six months, maybe.

Wow.

But love your work.

Thank you.

How do you get, before we get into the interview, how do you get that much access?

Everyone, this is my most asked question.

And there are a few things that I can attribute it to.

First,

I

nerd out about this.

I've always been.

interested since a kid and we'll get into that

in organized crime and international conflict.

And so

I try to know about it as much as I can.

And I think people recognize that.

Second, I don't judge.

So I have my own, you know, morals and ethics and personal values, but I never let that come across with the people I'm speaking to, whether they're the good guys, the bad guys, or somewhere in between or undecided.

And I just want to hear everyone's story.

I just want to know what's going on.

I want to give people a voice that feel like they don't have one.

And then also,

I'm a 24-year-old girl from Canada.

You're only 24?

Yeah.

Oh my gosh.

I know I look a lot older, but

I'm a 24-year-old girl from Canada who wants to talk about

what was your reaction

to

Trump saying that you and your colleagues are terrorists.

I'm just curious to know.

And a lot of these guys will open up.

Keep in mind, I'm typically always and only working with men.

So organized crime is dominated by men.

And so when I go in,

it's very

unalarming.

I mean, I don't give off the vibe that I'm going to kill you or rat on you or have some sort of hidden agenda.

I just like to hear the stories.

I'm genuinely interested and I like to tell them in the most unbiased way possible, the most honest way.

And so that has allowed me to gain the trust of a lot of people who have a lot of high-level information and are willing to share it with me.

And I've, you know, I've put my work in for that because I've spoken to quite a few people over the course of my career who took a risk in sharing information with me, reaching out to me or speaking to me or meeting with me.

And I never have ever let their identities been known or given that information to someone who could put their situation at risk.

So

that's how I think I get access.

And I'm a pusher.

I attack.

I mean, where did you start though?

Why do you think they, why do you think they give you access?

There's a lot of people that'll go down there and listen to what they have to say.

And plus all those journalists are getting killed down there.

I don't know if they're still getting killed.

A couple years ago,

they were murdering journalists left and right.

mexico actually is like one of the top countries for the most murdered journalists and female journalists there you go just

tick the box yeah um

why me i mean i i push for it i'm like let me talk to you and if they say no i go and ask someone else or i ask differently i don't really take no for an answer and i convince them why i'm the right person that they can share this information with or take me along whether that's law enforcement or it's organized crime people why do you think they want to get any of the information out to begin with it's a way to flaunt their their power flex their muscles show people look i'm doing all of this crime i basically run mexico i run the drug trade and i'm committing violent acts in broad daylight gruesomely

and i'm giving this information to the press.

And catch me if you can.

Interesting.

That's certainly what it is.

I think it's an ego thing for sure.

It's a flex, 100%.

For some people,

it's also kind of like

media relations.

They put this message out there.

An adversary hears or sees it, and they're sending a message.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

Gotcha.

Well, let's get into the interview.

Here we go.

So, Katerina Schultz, a fearless investigative journalist who's gone where where few dare, diving headfirst into the heart of Mexico's cartel strongholds like Sinaloa and Jalisco to expose the brutality reality, excuse me, to expose the brutal reality of organized crime, a bilingual boots-on-the-ground reporter tracking the cartel empire and its influence on North America, former traditional journalist who realized you needed to get out of the newsroom to find out what's really happening.

And you're the author of your popular sub stack to keep people informed on all things cartel related.

So thank you for coming in here.

And

we got a whole slew of topics to cover.

But you had mentioned something, you'd mentioned you had went down.

I don't know if it was

really happened, but you said you went down to the cartels, some of the cartel members and asked what they thought about Trump labeled alone terrorist organizations.

What was their response to that?

Yeah, so I went

to a border region where

some members of organized crime spoke with me, and they're responsible for

a significant amount of the trafficking and human smuggling operations.

And this was right after Trump had officially declared them FTOs because there was a lot of rhetoric around this previously, and even Texas governor Greg Abbott had previously declared them FTOs.

But now this was real.

And this,

I had assumed, was going to invoke a lot of fear, especially when it came to the financial pipelines, because that's what this act really attacks, is the cartel's finances.

And that's so much worse than putting a bounty on their family members or.

stopping the flow of drugs.

Like for them, it's the money freezing financial assets,

shutting down their shell companies, whatever it is.

And so I wanted to know because we were seeing so many headlines of how crazy this is and politicians reacting.

Okay, but the guys who are really going to face the brunt of this, what's going on?

And so I asked them, you know,

what do you think about Trump calling you

and the people you work with and your networks terrorists?

And how is this going to impact you?

And

it's so funny because I had anticipated this reaction, but I didn't think they'd actually,

we don't care.

We're just going to wait four years.

It's not that deep.

Wow.

Wow.

We're not going to fight them on it.

We'll give them what they want to see.

And we are not terrorists because there is a demand for our product.

There are drug addicts all across the United States who want what we have to sell.

How are we terrorizing them?

We're not literally, they're telling me like we're not like isis or the taliban bombing innocent people we just supply a product that there is a demand for and if this designation means that we have to hold off for a little while in order to protect our networks that's exactly what we will do interesting so what do you think what is the plan then are they just gonna are they gonna stop That's kind of what's been happening.

I mean, fentanyl numbers have been going down, but I don't think that's the plan.

The plan is to move operations, and I've been reporting on this extensively.

It's all happening in Canada now.

No one else is clocking it, and it's so obvious.

It started during Trump's first administration when he first started cracking down on the southern border.

Cartels knew they could go into Canada and they didn't need a visa like they needed to get into the U.S.

It was just a regular tourist visa, they didn't need to apply for anything or pay for anything.

They could just go get their tourist, like have a regular tourist visa the way I come to the United States, set up shop,

negotiate, and network with pre-existing organized crime groups in Canada, whether that be the Hells Angels, a big one, or Brothers Keepers or Red Scorpion or the United Nations gang, and say, hey, look, you guys have incredible access, okay, over 5,000 miles of practically unprotected border into the United States.

We can produce this product here and traffic it.

Not to mention, a lot of these pre-existing gangs

have large Asian populations.

And what do we have in Vancouver?

The Port of Vancouver.

And where are the fentanyl precursors coming in?

From China.

So you move these precursors.

The movement is now

no longer coming into Mexico.

It's coming into Canada.

You set up shop, you increase profit.

You tell all these guys that are already there, hey, look, if you let us, Sinaloa or Jalisco, in to work with you guys, we're going to quadruple profits.

So wait, you're saying that no more, are you saying in addition to Mexico produce fentanyl or it's all moved to Canada?

I think the majority has moved to Canada.

The majority of it's moved to Canada.

Yes.

I am 99% sure about that because you can never be 100% sure, but I am so sure about that.

Last summer, I wanted to crack down on this story because I had an individual reach out to me who was an operative for the Sinaloa cartel working in Canada, running these labs.

And

he showed me the labs that the Sinaloa cartel is

operating with.

Physically?

Yeah.

Where are they putting them?

They're putting them in suburban, sort of, so in, they're particularly in the West Coast, in BC and in Alberta, which is like a prairie province.

And so there's a lot of farmland and it's residential.

And prior to them, prior to this, it was meth labs that they had running out there.

And there would always be like a random meth lab explosion in Abbotsford or, you know, this is like a smaller city.

And then these turned into fentanyl labs that were completely under the radar because we also didn't have Canadian law enforcement like patrolling these areas to an extent that they would patrol like a large city like Vancouver or Toronto.

So

you're you're bringing in precursors from the port of Vancouver easily because less than 1% of cargo that comes into the port of Vancouver is actually inspected by authorities or less than how much?

Less than 1%.

Less than 1%.

That is an official number.

Yes.

So the majority of the cargo that's coming into the port of Vancouver is unmonitored.

And

you have longshoremen that are

on organized crime payroll

or turning a blind eye.

These precursors are being brought to labs throughout the lower mainland and they are producing fentanyl there.

And it started off as distributing this product throughout Canada because just like the United States, there has been this insatiable appetite for fentanyl in Canada.

During the pandemic,

more people at one point were dying of fentanyl overdose deaths than from covid

so that was a major health crisis

and

then

there's this major crackdown at the southern border

you already have cartel operatives established in the north

you have five that over 5 000 miles of practically unprotected border.

You know, it's Greenland and

you can fly across, you can drive your boat boat across, you can drive your dirt bike across.

And

that just

left it as open field for these members of organized crime to start to bring their operations to the next level by trafficking everything into the United States.

And it's important to keep in mind that Canadian law enforcement knows this is happening.

Very aware, has been aware since around 2017.

oh this has been happening since 2017 it's been happening yeah since trump's first so 2016.

wow it's this has been i would say for the past 10 years exactly is when cartel operatives from mexico started to move operations into canada

and

law enforcement knows this is happening But Canadian law enforcement does not have the resources to crack down on this.

How many precursors are there?

Do you know?

No, I I don't know how to make fentanyl.

But it's fairly simple.

How big are these labs?

I mean,

when you say a, you know, a meth lab, that's usually what, like a trailer out in the middle of a field.

A lot of these are just small, like single-occupancy homes.

Okay.

That are a farmhouse.

Yes, exactly.

Some of them are buying the farmland.

Yeah.

Or they're renting it from.

So a lot of the farmland is owned by certain families

and

they will rent out these these plots of land or whatever little house is already on this land

um

a way that the canadian authorities crack down on members of organized crime is not through directly charging them with producing or conspiracy to traffic.

They will crack down on their ownership of a home.

And

then they no longer have a place to run operations.

So that home gets taken away.

It's that particular

real estate is under investigation along with the people, but

it operates a little bit differently.

And it

hinders the way that they're able to work.

But mentioning the law enforcement is even though they know that this is going on,

the resources just are not there.

And I have a really good source who is with the RCMP.

That's Canada's national police force.

And he specializes in organized crime.

And we talk about that 1% defentanol number very frequently because

he says

neither my colleagues nor myself

believe that number because we have

seen

so many operations going to the radar, especially when they're working undercover.

And

I said, well, why isn't there a crackdown then?

Why aren't they stopping it?

And why is the Canadian government only implementing a fentanyl when Trump is telling them to crack down, not when thousands of people are dying on a monthly basis from fentanyl use?

And he explicitly tells me it's because they just don't have the means to do it.

They haven't even been able to crack down on local gang land.

How are they now supposed to focus on transnational crime organizations?

The head of RCMP was asked just recently, how many organized crime groups, individual organized crime groups, do you think are operating in Canada right now?

And he responds, it's on video.

I don't have a number off the top of my head.

I think 4,000.

And so the question is clarified.

There are 4,000 organized crime groups operating in Canada with their own individual leadership and networks.

And the head of the RCMP says, yes, I would say so, around 4,000.

Who do you think the key players are

putting these labs in up there?

Is Sinaloa cartel?

Which cartoon?

It's Sinaloa and CGNG.

But let me just finish that point about the 4,000, because this goes to show the disconnect between

Canadian law enforcement in Canada, because it's actually 668 individual organized crime groups.

That's according to CSIS, Canadian version of CIA.

So imagine if you have this disconnect where our national police force does it is just pulling out a random number.

How are you even supposed to crack down on these people and these groups?

But yes, it's mostly Sinaloa and CJNG that are in Canada.

I would say now it's likely probably just CJNG simply due to the fact that Sinaloa does not have the power or the numbers to maintain their stronghold and they've entered into an alliance with New generation curtail this show is sponsored by better help these days it feels like there's advice for everything cold plunges gratitude journals screen detoxes but how do you know what actually works for you using trusted resources and talking to live therapists can get you personalized recommendations and help you break through the noise therapy from better help is helpful for learning positive coping skills and how to set boundaries it empowers you to be the best version of yourself and it's for everyone, not just those who've experienced major trauma.

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Interesting.

They made an alliance with them.

I think it's a proxy alliance.

The Chapitos were

pretty obviously losing the fight in this

faction war that's been going on in the Sinaloa cartel since El Mayo was brought to the United States.

And so I think CJNG saw this as an opportunity to say, we will back you up, but we gain control over everything.

And they are the first cartel in history to have control over every single Mexican state.

Interesting.

Interesting.

You know, back to, my head's jumping around a lot.

Sorry, I do that too.

Back to the, back to declaring them terrorist organizations.

And they're saying,

I totally understand what they're saying.

You know, well, we'll just wait four years and everything will be finished.

But I mean, there's another aspect too.

There's, you know, know, there's always a potential that we send in SOCOM and JSOC units.

I mean, do they have any fear of that?

I asked them about that.

And they said that if

American Special Forces

lay their feet on Mexican soil, they will fight till the death because they will have nothing to lose.

They will put up a fight.

Will they win that fight?

No.

But they won't go down without a fight because that's really, that's all they have.

and so if if their entire livelihood and their entire business is being attacked especially by u.s uniform operators who have every means to just completely squash it

they won't go down like a bitch i mean

down to what level though you know what i mean i mean to the very bottom to the very bottom oh even even the local drug dealer yes the guy who's a lookout

who's making pennies

when i was in Sinaloa covering this fighting in the fall,

there was the money flow was interrupted for, you know, all levels of people working for the cartels.

And so

main people who, you know, it's like that necessary job that makes no money are the puntos, the lookouts, the guys on their dirt bikes who watch if Mexican forces are coming.

You know, they keep the eyes out for whatever's going on those guys make the least amount of money they're making around

500 a month

and

when the infighting began and all of this money and resources had to go to we need to maintain our stronghold and we need to buy arms and and stockpile these punderos were the ones losing out.

And so when I was there, once it got dark, I couldn't order uber eats to my hotel because these guys were stealing the food from the delivery men because they didn't even have enough money to eat.

But they were still working for the cartels.

They wouldn't say, okay, you know what?

Fuck this.

I'm going to go and work in a Walmart where I'm at least going to make a steady income.

It's not great, but I have something to pay for my basic needs.

Because at that point,

It's not just about the money.

It's indoctrination.

It's about being a part of something, feeling powerful, feeling like you've been validated and accepted by the very people who are responsible for thousands of deaths and the war on drugs.

They're on the FBI's most wanted posters, and I work for that guy.

I guess it makes sense.

It makes sense to them.

We don't have to understand it.

Yeah.

Wow.

I thought there would be at least a little fear, but it doesn't sound like they care at all.

I don't think they do.

And based on what I've been told, whether that's what I was told at the border, whether I go and ask in Sinaloa or Jalisco or Michuacan or Guerrero,

the consensus remains the same.

And

the people in charge are treated like gods.

They are

absolutely praised

as if they are the one and only.

I mean, that's why we see all the songs about El Mencho, El Chapo, El Mayo.

And you can literally go to Sinaloa and buy

narco merch.

You know, you got the hat with whoever's face on it.

You can even buy like religious regalia that is paying homage to narco leaders.

And so the people who work for them praise them.

People who don't work for them praise them and want to work for them.

So if you're telling this 17-year-old kid

who

has always wanted to be in this lifestyle,

you're going to die for me and American forces are coming in.

He'll stand up.

He'll probably shit his pants, but he'll do it.

He'll put on

face.

How many of these labs do you think have been set up in Canada?

Do you have any estimation on that?

I think

I don't know exactly how many labs are operating in Canada.

But the majority of the labs that are in Canada, which is significant because there is certainly a supply, there is no lack of drugs in Canada or the United States, right?

And especially in northern states, too, where a lot of these drugs are coming into.

I think the majority of them are being run by the cartels.

And the interesting thing is, you won't really see it in the numbers or in

police investigations or press releases because they don't keep track of which criminal organizations are operating what,

like which labs.

So, for example, you will,

someone will be arrested, three men will be arrested for trafficking arms and drugs.

They were arrested in a Surrey home in British Columbia, and we found X amount of drugs, X amount of arms with this amount of street value.

They won't say, oh, you know, they were operating on behalf of the Sinaloa cartel.

They will say, we found messages in our investigation that they were operating with mexican

associates

and some people will then subsequently be charged and they'll be mexican nationals living in canada

those guys are working for the cartels

but canadian authority doesn't keep track or at least not publicly

of

who is working with exactly which criminal organization.

And I think that that also does play a role in allowing the cartels to flourish over there because they can operate so entirely under the radar.

I mean, here in the U.S.,

for the first time, a few weeks ago, a woman in El Paso was arrested for particularly working as a straw buyer for CJNG.

And this was the first case of someone in the U.S.

with material to be charged as an FTO.

In Canada, that wouldn't be the case.

You wouldn't hear that, oh, she was directly working as an associate with the new generation cartel.

But when you bring light to that, especially in a border place like El Paso, then everyone who's doing it is kind of on edge.

And then they say, okay, look, hey,

we're under a spotlight.

But if that's not happening, you continue to operate like

there's no spotlight on us.

We don't need to worry because there isn't.

Do Canadians know this is happening?

Well, if they read my reporting, they know now.

I mean,

Cash Patel, director of the FBI, is now saying it publicly.

He just said that they're coming in through the port of Vancouver.

They're producing fentanyl.

The fentanyl is coming from Canada because they haven't secured the northern border.

And when I initially started reporting on this and I was reaching out to RCMP and reaching out to CSIS and putting out my contact, everyone was telling me, no, you're wrong.

This can't be.

And RCMP was telling me, we have no evidence to show that local criminal organizations are working directly with cartels.

But I met with cartel associates in Canada showing me the production, telling me how they're doing it.

And it goes back to what you asked me.

Why are they telling me this?

Because they want to show you exactly how they're operating under the radar.

They're so tough.

And oh yeah, you secured our southern border.

Fuck you.

We moved to Canada.

How much is one of these labs producing?

Do you know that?

Yeah, like, okay, so one batch will be like $150,000 worth of fentanyl pills.

And how many pills?

And they're producing.

How many pills is that?

It depends because it depends on the size of the pills.

It depends on the

strength of what they're, the strength of fentanyl in each pill.

I'm just trying to get an estimation of how much shit is coming through, you know, the northern U.S.-Canadian border.

And then how fast do you think this is spreading?

I mean, it sounds like right now it's pretty localized in Vancouver, but when's it going to go more towards the other coast?

It is in the East Coast.

It's not at the same level, but it certainly is in the East Coast.

What I know what's happening for sure in the East Coast is a lot of people are being contracted by the cartels to,

and not Mexican people,

Canadian nationals are being contracted by the cartels to operate as enforcers.

A lot of people in Quebec and Ontario.

What do you mean, enforcer?

What does that mean?

It's like a hockey player.

It's like a.

It protects the hockey team, right?

They're protecting the operations.

How so?

What are they doing?

Taking out hits, threatening people,

ensuring that the right individuals are being paid off,

whether that be enforcement at the border so that guns can get across into Canada from the U.S.

or fentanyl can go the other way.

How are they getting their people up there?

Are they coming up through the U.S.?

Yeah.

Just keep going north or are they flying them in?

So prior to Canada re-implementing the visa requirement, a lot of the Mexican nationals were flying directly into Canada.

They completely would bypass the U.S.

It was much easier that way because they wouldn't need a visa.

Now it's a little bit different.

Now some of the operatives who were already based in the U.S.

are moving into Canada.

Okay.

Yeah.

And

it's interesting because

when I was, I gained access to a few group chats that were run by the cartels on WhatsApp, Telegram.

WhatsApp is like the starting point just because of the way the encryption is set up.

They don't want to talk about too much, but because it is so accessible, it's a great way to hire people, recruit people.

And so I gained access to a group chat where they were basically recruiting people to work as enforcers for them, cigarios,

you know, managing certain logistics of the business, whether that's paying off authority, finding out who's who, getting the arms, finding the dealers, contracting straw buyers, whatever it may be.

When I was in this group chat,

the first thing that stood out to me was two of the phone numbers were Canadian area codes.

One was Alberta and one was Toronto.

And

one of the individuals

was directly asked if he could take out a hit if need be.

He would be paid $55,000 Canadian.

He would have to buy a Glock with three

Three mags, I think it was.

I have this screenshot.

And

there could be no kids around.

And if he goes to the house, make sure that no family is around of the individual that needs to be killed.

And so

for a lot of these people,

money was put on the table right away.

You get into this group chat, whether that means you're going to be moving fentanyl pills into the U.S., whether that means you may have to take out a hit.

or pay someone off, conducts any sort of logistics.

It was, this is how much you'll make, take it or leave it.

And that was for a lot of people that first incentive.

Now for a lot of other folks,

it was,

I'm going to be a part of the cartel.

I,

for a lot of these people, they're kind of outcasts

and they feel like power.

They're like an aggressive person.

And a lot of those type of guys who kind of had like a violent past, boxers,

were being hired as cicarios.

And the way they would be recruited into these group chats was either through social media.

So a lot of fake postings or postings on Facebook or TikTok that would allude to what they could become a part of, but also just through

knowing someone.

Word of mouth.

Interesting.

Hey, my niece is dating this guy.

He's been here from Mexico for around six years.

He's making a ton of money.

I know you're strapped for cash.

Would you, if you get a package and you just have to drive it across the border, go to the Sears or Walmart parking lot, someone's going to pick it up.

Don't look inside.

And you're going to get paid $70,000.

Just go and come back.

People will do it.

Damn.

And Canada's not doing...

you you actually on the outline i saw that they are also recruiting from the balkans yeah did i see that yeah balkan states like uh

armenian guys too a lot of ex-gang members from over there and in australia too i mean

at this they're recruiting from australia yeah really yeah australia england like it seems like there's like this thing with the Commonwealth places is like

why are they going to the I mean why are the it sounds like there's no shortage of people that want to join the cartel there isn't and that's what so why are they recruiting out of the Balkans

because they need an international stronghold and so when you have people who don't look like you don't talk like you and come from different training backgrounds

they can fly

under the radar a lot better and they have access to different areas that certain Mexican operatives do not

so say for example uh

not that long ago, there was a blatant daylight shooting in

Vancouver.

A guy was killed and he was shot

by a

Canadian man from Quebec, super French name.

This individual had spent years in Mexico and Colombia and was said to eventually work for the cartel, go to Canada and take out this hit.

Now, how much better is it that you have a a Canadian national taking out a hit?

He knows where to go.

He knows how law enforcement operates.

He's from this place.

He has access.

The chances that there's going to be a fuck-up are a lot less.

And

also, if you know that Canadian law enforcement is not directly attacking the cartels when an associate who's not Mexican is operating for them of course

you're going to have a

foreign person a canadian or an australian or someone from england take out the hit or commit the crime

hmm yeah are they are they trying to

spread into europe and armenia and australia as well i mean could that be another reason yes they're making connections yeah and there are already interpol reports of particularly particularly CGNG having activity, having strongholds in Australia, in Western Europe,

in Kenya.

There was a, people think I'm crazy when I talk about this, but they found a CGNG linked lab in Kenya, in Africa.

Wow.

What the hell are they doing over there?

Producing and trafficking.

It's a...

international operation.

And to me, it makes sense that they are moving everywhere because it's like what I said, the catch me if you can.

Yeah, I mean, it makes sense to me with the, I mean, I guess

in Kenya, I mean, I don't know how many people would be able to afford fentanyl, you know, but it's not about domestic distribution.

It's about that production there and being so far removed from where the Hawkeye view is, which is Canada, U.S., and Mexico, and being able to move the product outwards from there.

You know, the other thing is, I'm not saying you're wrong by any means.

It's okay, you care.

To me, it doesn't make sense why they would pay a Canadian $55,000

Canadian dollars to

put a hit out to assassinate somebody or fly somebody in from the Balkans or Australia when we do know they don't give a shit about their people.

dying.

You know, I mean, we've seen that for years.

You know, they give them five minutes of training and send them off to their their work yeah but you know and and so it it's just it's not very cost-effective for them to

to have to pay that price when they can just send somebody you know from a little pueblo that has nothing into mex into canada u.s

anywhere they want you know It's certainly not cost effective, but I think logistically it works for them.

You have a Canadian who's willing to commit these crimes for you on their soil.

You completely avoid detection of that being the cartel.

It doesn't culp it down.

It does.

Until those people get interrogated.

And they say they've been working for the cartels.

And then in the RCMP information, they're saying, well, yeah, this person had connections with

Mexican criminals.

But Canadian authority isn't going after those criminals who put out the hit.

Man, would you is there anything that Canada has been doing to combat this at all?

Are they just trying to sweep it under the rug?

I think they're sweeping it under the rug.

I think since Trump tried to say, you know, we got to crack down on the northern border and Cache Patel has been putting a lot of pressure,

they've been doing these sort of public things like, you know, the appointing of Fentonils are,

amping up the amount of border patrol at the northern border.

But in terms of really getting to the root of the problem,

it's being swept under the rug.

And a lot of folks that I've spoken to in Canadian law enforcement agree with that notion.

Interesting.

And if I speak to any of my sources that are, you know, part of associates with the cartel operating in Canada,

they feel like it's business as usual.

Are they infiltrating?

I mean, how big are they getting into Canada?

I mean, like in the U.S., we know they're starting to get involved in politics, local police departments.

A lot of them are joining the military to get the training and then get out.

I don't think that's happening yet.

And because I don't think it's necessary, I think that the way that they've set up shop is working for them and they're not going to fix something that isn't broken and risk losing what they have.

Okay.

Okay.

And it's also important to keep in mind that there is evidence and, you know, there's all these reports that come out from CSIS

about Chinese intervention in Canadian politics and elections.

And if the Mexican cartels are already directly working with the Chinese, there's no need for them to go above them and try to get involved with Canadian politics.

That's being done for them.

Interesting.

All right, let's take a quick break.

When we come back, I know I want to talk about some of the other businesses that the cartels are starting to set up outside of Fentanyl.

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All right, we're back from the break.

We're getting ready to dive into, you know, the first diversification of all of the different cartel businesses.

So I've talked about this a couple times before.

It's been, I think it's been about two years, though, since I've covered this topic.

But

last I heard they were getting into the avocado trade.

Yes.

What else are they diving into?

Okay, crude oil, avocado, and agriculture is the biggest ones.

So

after human smuggling and drug trafficking, the second most profitable form of revenue for the cartels is wachikol, the crude oil theft.

This has been going on for forever.

And we have seen a lot of mass tragedies due to this, even though it's not

an illicit substance like fentanyl.

The way they tap into these pipelines in a lot of unsecured areas in smaller towns where these pipelines run through,

if they tap into it wrong or if they do it time and time again, it leads to a mass explosion.

And these headline in Mexico all the time and have been for decades.

Now, what's happening now is

actually just a few weeks ago, three CJNG operatives were sanctioned by the U.S.

for

trafficking stolen crude oil from Mexico into the U.S.

And certain smaller American oil companies were buying this oil, and they were bringing it into the U.S.

labeled as waste oil.

So it was going completely undetected.

A lot of it was going into the port of Brownsville in Texas.

And this for them is

a billion-dollar business.

Waste oil?

What the hell is waste oil?

They were calling it waste oil.

So the U.S.

is just letting people import waste oil to dump their apparently because they were bringing this in in trucks and it was being taken to smaller refineries where then it was known that it was not waste oil.

It was actually raw crude oil.

And

that was giving them around $3 billion a year at one point.

How much money are they making off of this?

Like billions of dollars, like

$3 billion a year.

$3 billion.

There's like 17,000, uh,

17,000

tankers worth of oil that are being stolen per day in Mexico.

Are you serious?

17,000 tankers a day?

That's what Pemex numbers show,

which is the Mexican oil company.

It has a monopoly, Pemex.

Wow.

Do you think they'll just try to take control of the pipeline itself?

They do.

That's exactly what they do.

And a lot of National Guard and local police are on the cartel payroll so that they can go and tap into these pipelines and no one's going to say anything actually just talking about actually like tapping into the pipeline yes or you I'm talking about just taking control of the entire pipeline and piping it to piping it to oh okay probably not okay that's that's a whole I mean it could be happening but I haven't done any reporting on that I mean from what I know and what I've seen is them physically going and tapping into the pipeline and stealing it and putting it into the tanker and driving that across and just a few days ago 11 members of the National Guard were arrested because they were caught red-handed at a pipeline stealing the oil.

And they're just getting this through the U.S.

border?

Yep.

Just driving it across.

17,000 tankers a day are coming across the U.S.

border.

I don't know if 17,000 tankers are moving across the border a day, but that's how much is being stolen per day.

So it's obviously going somewhere at a certain point of time.

And this is major profits for the cartel, especially with this crackdown at the southern border on fentanyl and human smuggling, which is a major financial pipeline for them.

Let's go make money off a different pipeline.

I mean, do we import, we don't import any gas from Mexico, do we?

Do we like legal, legally?

Legally, yeah.

So

a lot of the crude oil from Mexico goes to the U.S.

and is fined in the U.S.

and refined in the U.S.

and Mexico buys it back.

So this is a relatively easy operation to bust into.

Mexico doesn't have the refinery, it doesn't doesn't have the infrastructure to do it.

They buy the gas back.

Okay, so they, so we buy the gas or we refine the gas to then pipe it back into Mexico.

Yeah.

And so

that's, that's one that I talk about a lot because

the problem with this is they can do it so under the radar and they're experts at it at this point because it's been going on for so long.

And there's so much impunity around in corruption.

So many people, the right people are paid off.

The right people, whether that's politicians, National Guard, police, are being, are profiting off of this trade.

And so

the way to crack down on this is so murky because it's not, you know, you don't have this fentanyl pill that's going to kill someone and that's a controlled substance.

It's oil.

And it's something that everybody needs.

And if the way to get this oil is by going into these uh

undetected regions where it's just a small town and law enforcement knows what's going on it's very easy to access for them do you think that this will

i mean oil and gas is a big business exactly and some of the most powerful people in the world uh are in the most powerful people in the world are in you know oil and gas and so i guess what I'm asking is, I mean, do they, do you, do

your sources believe that the

oil and gas sector of their cartel business will overtake fentanyl and drug trafficking?

If push comes to shove and they really have to rely on something that isn't drugs, they could certainly move all of their operations to oil.

Why wouldn't they just want to anyways?

Why not?

Because money.

And it seems so much.

You think the drug trade is more than the gas trade.

It's more profitable for them.

Right now or 10 years down the road.

I don't know.

It's very hard to say.

And it depends where and how they want to distribute their resources.

If they want to fully focus on that, they could make it their number one earner.

I mean, because the only reason I'm asking is from an American aspect.

I mean,

that doesn't really affect us.

That affects

the green gas industry and Mexico.

Exactly.

That only enhances U.S.

refining.

Which is why I thought it was interesting when these three CGNG members were sanctioned for importing this stolen crude oil, none of the U.S.

refineries faced any

sanctions or legal action.

Yeah.

And of course, investigators certainly knew or know

which...

refineries and companies were buying this stolen oil, but nothing happened there on that front.

Why?

Because this is not killing Americans.

It's, I mean, it's legitimately just not our problem.

No.

That's the Mexican government could take care of that.

Exactly.

It's not like the drugs.

What else are they diving into?

Agriculture.

Agriculture has been huge.

And more than ever before, I mean, the three major points of agriculture where all avocados that you guys eat here and limes that you guys use is coming from Michoacán, Jalisco, Nayarit.

And those are CGG strongholds.

So, what's been happening for the longest time, and particularly now as they're trying to diversify their revenue streams,

cartel operatives are going in to these ranches, these orchards, and telling the farmers who have had these orchards in their families for generations, because I don't know if you know, but you know, raising one avocado tree, if it's successful, which is also just difficult within itself, can take up to 15 years.

So this takes a lot of dedication to be an avocado farmer.

And it's a very profitable fruit.

They call it green gold for something.

And cartels are going in.

Armed men will show up and say, listen, you're either going to pay me X percentage of whatever you're profiting off of your avocado exports.

or this becomes ours.

And a lot of these farmers, they're doing well for for themselves, you know,

in terms of earning potential in Mexico generally, right?

They're making an honest income.

They're working their asses off.

The whole family is part of this business.

They're employing people from their town.

And

they're making good money to support themselves.

So then you have, our men come and say, either get out or pay me an amount that they typically cannot afford because it's not that much money.

And you're saying, now, give me 80% of your earnings.

How are you supposed to maintain your orchards if you're losing more than half of your income to organized crime?

So a lot of these people have to abandon their farms.

There are, this is hundreds of avocado orchards, particularly in Michuacan, have been abandoned by their rightful owner and cartels are now working those orchards.

Or the very people who own these places are now being employed by the cartel to go and farm the land, work the land.

And

there are certain produce companies in the U.S.

who are knowingly, some not knowingly, but others knowingly purchasing avocados from cartel-run avocado orchards in Mexico.

And I reached out to these.

I actually had

a

really significant produce person, someone who worked for the U.S.

government as an inspector before.

So the U.S.

sends inspectors to these regions to make sure, you know, for pesticide control, pest control, whatever the case may be, and even for ethics.

So is organized crime operating here?

And I got in contact with someone who did this job.

And

I got a list of produce company names

that were knowingly, are knowingly importing avocados and limes limes from farms that are now run by the cartels blatantly.

And when I reached out to them and said, you know, what is your guys' due process to ensure that you aren't supporting organized crime?

No comment.

We don't talk about this.

Of course, you won't.

But wouldn't you want to clear your name?

Wouldn't you want to show to the American avocado consumer that those avocados aren't blood fruit?

Yeah, I mean, it sounds what you're describing sounds really very similar to the diamond trade.

Of course.

But,

I mean, with that being said, it's, it's,

I mean, how many, how many legitimate avocado farms are there left in Mexico?

I talked to,

the only reason I'm asking is Luis Chaparo.

I've had him on several times here, and he, he talked about the avocado trade with the cartels and how Super Bowl seeds and they'll create a shortage despite the prices and all that kind of stuff.

But I mean, so, I mean, do these companies, do these U.S.-based fruit companies, do they have, I mean,

do they even have anywhere else to buy this stuff from?

Or is it just cartels?

At this point, it's likely just cartels.

And

the cartels manipulated that because

it got to a point when the U.S.

agricultural inspectors were going to Mexico to inspect these farms, then they were being threatened.

And so then the U.S.

stopped sending inspectors to these regions, which meant it was a free-for-all for the cartels to take over every single orchard that existed there.

Mm-hmm.

Well, I mean, an inspector isn't going to stop that.

No.

No, that's not even his job.

That's not their job.

So is the Mexican government doing anything about this at all?

Okay.

They sent in

when this, a bunch of farmers banded together because they will do that.

You know, they're tough, they're hardworking, and they banded together and said, we can't take this anymore.

The cartels are taking over our livelihoods, are taking over our businesses.

So Mexican government sent in a couple thousand troops to these regions to try and protect them.

But those very troops were getting paid off by the cartel too.

They were also being threatened.

There were shootouts at these farms.

And typically when that happens in Mexico, unfortunately,

government backs down.

How about the water trade?

Yeah, that's another thing, especially in these same regions, because it's very important for farmers, you know, for the irrigation, but also just for the people living in these regions.

They've monopolized water.

They monopolized Wi-Fi.

Even Wi-Fi.

Wi-Fi, yeah, they put up their own Wi-Fi wires in certain towns in these regions so you can only purchase from the cartel provider.

No shit.

They cut the cords from, there's other Wi-Fi providers in Mexico like Izzy and

there's other ones, right?

Legitimate.

And those wires are being cut.

The infrastructure is being destroyed.

Cartel puts up their own infrastructure.

Now you have to only get your Wi-Fi from us.

Wow.

So they have communications, they have agriculture, they have oil and gas.

I mean, it's every single aspect of...

of basic life, every necessity.

I mean,

how is the relationship with...

What is their relationship like with, with the Chinese that are piping in all of the precursors to make fentanyl?

You had mentioned a lot of them are going to Canada now, but I mean,

seems just interviewed Tom Holman, you know, the borders are, and he said that the, I believe, I have to reference the interview, but I believe he said that the southern border is 96.8% secured.

Do you, do you agree with that?

It's a very high number.

And I do believe that the the southern border is a lot more secured than it was

six months ago.

Certainly.

The price of being smuggled across the border has gone up.

Like if you want to pay for a coyote to take you across,

less coyotes are operating because

of just the sheer amount of vigilance at the southern border.

And US and Mexico numbers both show that fentanyl trafficking has gone down at the southern border.

96% is very high.

To say it's 96% secured, I mean, how do you even quantify how secure a border is?

But in terms of...

I think you do, but the number of people coming across.

The number of people coming across, right?

But of course, you don't track every single person that's coming across.

Has it gone down?

Certainly.

And numbers on both sides of the border show that.

And if you just go to that border, it looks so different than it did six months ago.

I mean, you have tons of CBP helicopter patrol constantly.

Mexico deployed an additional, I think, 12,000 National Guard to secure their side of the border.

And the threat of tariffs and

U.S.

intervention in Mexico really did push Mexican President Glaudia Schienbaum to act on the southern border because she didn't want to see a Mexico where there was American intervention.

She wanted to maintain autonomy.

Fair enough.

Why don't you think she wants any intervention?

Because she wants Mexico to stay Mexico.

She doesn't want to see American forces coming in.

She doesn't want Mexican people to feel like their own government can't deal with it by themselves.

And.

Don't they already feel like that?

100%.

But

you can't admit a loss.

Another point to that is to protect people who are in her administration who have narcoties.

Does she have narcoties?

100%.

100%.

I believe she definitely has narcoties.

What makes you believe that?

She's with the Morena Party.

So many

political figures in this party have now, just recently, been sanctioned by the U.S., had their visas revoked by the U.S., have been tied to shell companies in the U.S.

that are cleaning money for the cartels.

This was the most violent Mexican election in the history of Mexican elections.

Why were people dying at the polls?

Why were armed men showing up to voting stations and destroying the ballots and the ballot boxes?

And then prior to her,

Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, the previous president of Mexico, who basically took Sheehanbaum and put her up and said, everyone who voted for me vote for her.

And she won by a landslide.

No one has ever voted by that margin

in a Mexican federal election ever before.

He had been reported to have received a significant multi-million dollar payout from the Sinaloa cartel.

Wow.

So, if you have this party that just has so many rotten apples, you're telling me it's not spoiling the bunch, and that the main figurehead of this party, the president of Mexico, who could, if she really wanted to, say, fuck the cartels.

We're ending them.

Everyone is suffering on both sides of the border and globally.

Okay, we are going to crack down.

And that's not really happening.

It's a soft stance.

It's certainly not as soft as her predecessor.

His, his moral, or his slogan was, abrasosos no valasos, hugs, not bullets.

She didn't take that on, which I think was great because what do you mean that you're going to, you know,

it just didn't, it was, it made no sense.

But do I think she has narcotized Yeah, and people come for me a lot when I say that because they say, like,

you're just shitting on a president who's cares about the Mexican people.

I think if she really cared about the Mexican people, the cartel crackdown would be to the next

level.

I think if she really cared about the Mexican people, it would be a positive to get the U.S.

in there to help solve this problem.

And then the U.S.

has this watch list of narco-politicians.

I, a source from your government actually gave me a few names.

I published that list.

And then exactly a month later, one of the people that I had on that list, which was the governor of Baja California, Marina del Pilar, her U.S.

tourist visa and her husband's were revoked.

And there was no reason given as to why.

But there's certainly an investigation going.

She's also part of the Morena Party.

And then the governor of Sinaloa, Ruben Rochamoya, who, you know, a lot of people have, a lot of people who seek the truth have beef with him because

he has been a part of a lot of shady dealings.

And

how is your state going to erupt into this war zone where the cartels basically control every aspect?

of politics, law enforcement, and daily life for the citizens.

And

yet you're sitting high and mighty as if nothing is happening.

Everything is okay.

Everything is okay.

And the U.S.

names him

and the president of Mexico goes up in public in her morning press conferences and defends him.

Says, no, no, no.

He's doing his job and honestly.

Wow.

Wow.

And look,

people can say all they want.

Well, maybe she doesn't directly have ties with narcos.

Okay, but if she's defending the very people who do, who are under her administration, Does that not make you just as guilty?

I mean, tell me about your integrity and

your responsibility to protect the citizens of the country and ensure that they have a solid quality of life while protecting the very people who are ruining that.

Have you heard of

I've heard a lot of rumors that former SOCOM and JSOC special operators are going down and training cartel.

Have you, veterans, have you heard that?

Like, not part of the Green Beret program, because there is a program.

The U.S.

does train

Mexican military, and then they kind of form their own.

Yeah, no, I'm talking about guys that have separated from the military that are going down there.

And directly training cartels.

Yes.

Yes.

How much of that is going on?

If you go to Tamaulipas right now, it borders Texas and Mexico,

there are curtail operatives who can expertly show you how to arm,

you know, put together, arm, and put a minigun on top of a vehicle and use it like an expert.

And that isn't.

common knowledge and that isn't something that you know like guerrilla warfare teaches you these people are directly being taught by USX military.

I've heard and we were talking about this on the way here,

Israelis, people who know how to

use high-level arms and

know a fair bit about high-level warfare tactics.

If the cartels weren't trained by these very people,

they would not be able to function at the level that they are.

Do you have any sources that have told you that former soft guys are heading down there to train?

Yeah, particularly in Mexican state's that border Texas.

There are cartel operatives in Tamaulipas who

will blatantly say, the gringo taught us this.

Or do it the way the gringos do it?

Well, that's terrifying.

And that has to do not only like with the miniguns but the IEDs that they have they they are

their IEDs now are just next level um drone operations they're using drones that now

initially they were attaching

bombs IEDs to to the drones flying them in and then the whole contraption would blow up

Now they're doing it in a way where the drone goes in, it drops the IED, and then the drone goes back out.

And they're saving a lot of technology by doing this, right?

And it's making it, it's fast tracking the

operation.

They were taught by Americans.

They were taught by Americans how to do that too.

Yeah.

And with the anti-drone technology, that came from overseas.

Well, that came from abroad.

They have anti-drone technology.

What kind of anti-drone technology?

They have, so I actually, I wish I could show you the video of it.

They have like the big.

drone blockers.

So if there is a drone flying in the area, they can completely disable that drone and make it,

have it cease to function.

Wow.

What other kind of tech are that?

That's where I wanted to lead into.

You know, warfare is changing

an astronomical basis.

They're at a point in their warfare where it's, they've never had this level of access before and expertise.

They have technology that you would never have imagined cartels to have.

I mean, with the amount of money and access they have to certain people and expertise, certainly they can do this they can learn how to operate anti-drone technology how to uh use drones uh multiple times and drop ids how to set up a minigun

but they're also you know they're using technology that it's not typical warfare technology so

even in certain regions uh

they have like cell phone blockers but just set up throughout the town too so you walk in and all of a sudden either your phone doesn't work or it's immediately tapped.

Even the way they're putting Pegasus on people's phones.

They're putting Pegasus on people's phones.

Oh, Mexico and particularly Mexican journalists, it's like you are the number one victim of having Pegasus on your phone.

No kidding.

Yeah.

They got Pegasus from Israel.

You want to talk about Pegasus real quick?

Yeah, we can talk about.

Yeah, Pegasus, it's like the number one phone hacking technology and it doesn't take anything at all.

It's literally, I get a message on WhatsApp.

If I just press on that contact that sent me the message, Pegasus is now in my phone and they have access to everything,

all of the data, even the metadata that's in my phone, and can track me, can listen in to me, everything.

And

just recently, actually, the Mexican president's phone was hacked.

It was a phone that she said she never used, and it was just like a personal phone.

But if

you're able to hack the president's phone,

anyone is at risk.

And Mexico is a main consumer of or user of Pegasus technology.

Who are they deploying all this stuff against?

Is it cartel on cartel for the most part?

No, it's anyone that threatens their operations.

So, of course, yes, they're cartel adversaries, but politicians, law enforcement, journalists,

even sometimes people who are working for them, their own straw buyers, people who they feel like they can't fully trust.

Stay Frosty puts some Pegasus on his phone.

What about the drones?

What about the drones?

Who are they deploying that on?

They're deploying the drones against Mexican forces.

If there is an operation that's going down,

they know Mexican forces are going to be in this area.

They will even trap them.

So lead Mexican forces, this happened not so long ago, an example of this, lead Mexican forces to believe that a key figure is here or a key lab is here and they will arm that location with IEDs and have drones ready to go in there.

Mexican forces will get there and they get exploded.

Okay.

So they hit them with IEDs and then do a drone swarm.

Yeah.

How big are the drone swarms?

Any idea?

It really depends on like which cartel is operating this, but for the most part, they're not that large.

They have just like even just like regular drones.

They're using like even like the DJI drones, or they're getting the drones from China that are like a knockoff version and attaching bombs to it and just dropping those in.

And you'll even see videos of when they're flying, they're kind of weighed down a bit.

So nothing like

a hundred drones coming all at once, like some

of the things that are in Ukraine.

At least not yet.

How far out do you think we are before that starts happening?

It depends if the U.S.

puts boots on the ground in Mexico.

Because I don't think Mexican forces will ever push it to a point where cartels feel like that's how hard they need to hit them.

You don't?

No.

You don't think so?

No.

There's too much at risk, and there's too much for them to lose.

I think,

you know, something that really stood out to me.

What's the risk?

What do you mean there's too much for them to lose?

For Mexican special forces to be at risk of danger.

I was going to say, when I was in Sinaloa,

they had just, the day that I got there, we went to the base and they had just brought in reinforcements for National Guard.

And

a lot of the people were very young and they were literally coming into a place where they were ready to face.

the cartels head-on.

I mean, every night it was just like, you would just see the fireworks, the shootouts.

In the morning, there would be dead bodies lining major highways with notes, sending messages.

And so these guys were coming in knowing that they had to take on a very desperate cartel head on and try to stop some extreme level of violence with very little experience.

They were very young.

And some of them looked so nervous and even fearful to be there.

And if there is that level of fear, then when you ask me, are these guys going to

go in and take them head on to a point where the cartels will completely amp up and you have a hundred drone swarms going in there and just taking out Mexican forces?

No, because I don't think the Mexican forces

would get to that level.

I mean, Hugs, not bullets was a policy for so long that now to switch that up and go have the pendulum swing to the exact opposite where it's like, no, we are going to take them on.

I don't think the people who are in the forces, you know, I don't want to undermine it.

And I don't mean it like this, but

I don't think the training and the morale is even there to be like, I'm going in to die for this.

We're taking these guys out.

So no,

Mexican cartels won't likely, unless U.S.

forces come into Mexico, get to a level where they believe they have to completely amp up operations where it's like Ukraine-Russia style simply due to the fact that Mexican forces aren't going to push them to that level.

So you don't think that they're proactive enough to start to stock up on drones, start getting 3D printers and printing their own drones and all of these proactive, yes.

Or if U.S.

forces do come in.

100%.

You don't think they'll deploy them though, unless unless U.S.

steps in.

Interesting.

Because they won't have a need to.

But are they proactively stocking up?

100% yes.

And I've been told about this from the very people in charge of ensuring that they are armed.

Do they have strategic locations where they're stocking up?

I mean, in,

I mean, since you're saying that they are proactive, do they have strategic locations where they're stocking up on

tech, weapons, all this kind of stuff?

Do they, do they know what it...

Do they think they might know what it might look like, where the fight's going to begin?

Yes.

Okay.

First and foremost, there are safe houses throughout all of Mexico where they're stocking up on this and particularly, surprisingly enough, in a lot of tourist destinations because it's easy access.

A lot of these places have water access.

It goes under the radar.

So Puerto Vallarta, Acapulco,

these

are cities that the cartel is using to their advantage to stock up and because they already have a lot of operations going on there and because they know that

that won't those areas won't be hit as a war zone because they're tourist hotspots so mexico will never want to scare away the tourism sector

so if they have a safe house in a place like puerto vallarta which is also the cjng stronghold filled with arms filled with tech drones 3d printers you name it

um they can get there they can get the access they can get someone to bring it out to them, and it won't be a problem.

Now, in terms of the places that would be hit, like say U.S.

operators stepped into Mexico, again, it won't be those particular regions.

It will be Sinaloa, it will be Culiacan, it will be Michoacán, it will be Guerrero, it will be Tamaulipas,

areas where Veracruz, and there's a port in Veracruz.

You're saying that's where we would deploy?

Yes.

I think that's probably where we would deploy conventional guys if we did that.

But as far as strategic strikes, when you bring in tier one units, I mean, those guys are going to go everywhere.

They don't, it doesn't matter.

I agree.

And I think that

the cartels certainly know that.

They're bracing for it.

A lot of them are worried that that's going to happen if it hasn't already.

There's some level of American intervention in Mexico.

I mean, we've seen it with the CIA planes that are flying.

They obviously have Mexican permission to do that, but they're CIA planes flying across the northern Mexican states.

The U.S.

is certainly gathering intel and they're working bilaterally with Mexico.

How long will that last or how far is that going?

Not to the point that Mexico would like to see.

But the U.S.

knows that they have to withhold some information and a lot of intelligence in order for their

operations not to fail.

Because the one wrong person finds out about it, whether that's in government, whether that's in Mexican intelligence, and the whole operation goes to shit.

Even with El Chapo's family going into Tijuana or going across the border and receiving a sort of safe haven in the U.S.,

Mexico didn't know about that.

Mexico hasn't received information on that.

The head of national security for Mexico made a point to say, we aren't in the loop with this

how do you think we defeat him i'm just curious have you thought about that all yeah i think about that all the time and people ask me that all the time and people ask that because they want to see it happen

but how does that happen

it's it would be a multifaceted approach like there's no silver bullet we both know this

And it's very complicated because they're so they have their claws so enthralled in every aspect.

You know, whether it's the ways that they're diversifying their revenue in oil and gas and whatever it is, but also in politics and internationally.

So

to defeat this

Fortune 500 corporation that's armed to the max and is always a step ahead.

It would be a matter of

cracking down on extreme intelligence gathering, finding out

where the main guys are, dismantling them and their local networks, dismantling their online propaganda projects,

tackling the people particularly who are under the radar and in charge of laundering a lot of the money, setting up the shell companies,

the remittance,

the remittance sites that are allowing these cartels ways to launder their money internationally,

the banks, it goes so deep.

It wouldn't just be a matter of go get the big guy like when they got El Mayo this summer.

You have to tackle the

finances.

Yeah, I think a lot about this.

I mean, I don't think, you know, you know, we just did that for 20 years and in the war on terror, you know, taking out leaders.

I think the number two had like a two-week life expectancy, but every time you take one out, it's

new ones in.

And so I don't think taking out just the leadership would work.

What do you think needs to happen?

You know, I don't know.

I mean, if we infiltrated, it would be extremely bloody just because of the amount of people that are involved in the cartel.

It wouldn't work if you just took out the leadership.

You know,

just from the years of covering this, you know, here and there and throughout with the different people that I've had on,

I think that the way to do it would be, and I I don't know, like I said, it's been a minute since I've talked about this, but I don't know how

combative the cartels are towards each other anymore.

But I think what I would do is I would probably create some type of

psychological operation that pits the cartels against each other and

basically create a false narrative so that this cartel and this cartel hate each other and they go to war with each other and then find ways to intervene.

And, you know what I mean?

Well, that's basically what's happening in Sinaloa.

Is that what's happening there?

I mean, El Mayo was brought to the U.S., kidnapped, allegedly.

And now we're in real time watching the fall of the Sinaloa cartel.

Just from pulling him?

Yep.

Well, then maybe.

El Chapa was gone.

Now El Mayo is gone.

And the infighting began.

And just like a house of cards, it's falling in on itself.

but

to the same point CGNG swoops in says we will make an alliance chapitos and us

which

you know how real can that alliance be when they've been sworn enemies

and what's essentially going to happen is CGNG is going to take over that faction and take over Sinaloa so great

what your suggestion was work to completely dismantle the Sinaloa cartel that has been operating for forever and was at one point one of the largest cartels in Mexican history.

But now we have CJG.

So, what you do, the same thing with them,

yeah,

and it just keeps going on and on until they're done.

But the supply and demand for drugs.

I mean, how many cartel members were eliminated, you know, in that scuffle between those?

Oh, at this point,

hundreds

that were operating operating with the with the Sinaloa cartel

people of importance yeah

dead man doesn't have to be people of importance I mean it all there's also a psychological factor as well where

maybe these weren't as brutal as they are now

I mean or I could be with enough people were eliminated for this cartel to not be functioning basically at this point

and for them to have to strike a deal with a an enemy cartel an adversary how many big ones are there

cartels yeah how many big ones okay well who are the three the top three i would say the top three

cgng the golf cartel

cartel del noreste and well sinaloa i'll keep it still there so and they're and they're crumbling sinaloa sinaloa is crumbling yeah that's why i didn't put it in top three but it would certainly be in top three um

and I think the U.S.

designated eight of them, if I'm not mistaken, as foreign terrorist organizations,

which included all those I mentioned and a few more.

But for example, like there were certain factions of cartels or fragmented versions of cartels that were not on that list.

And when you have fragmented groups of a previously stronghold cartel still existing, those groups end up attaching on to a larger cartel that's operating.

And it just makes them stronger because they gain more territory, they gain access to more people, more guns.

What do you think happens if we go to China and we're able to stop the precursors from being shipped?

It doesn't matter because the Sinaloa cartel is now, it just came out a few months ago.

is taking chemistry students from universities in Sinaloa and having them try to figure out how to make the precursors from scratch.

I don't know.

We'll have to wait and see.

I have a feeling that there's probably batches out on the streets or they're preparing batches that have these homemade precursors now.

We'll see if it works.

It's just like what happened with fentanyl.

You have to see what happens with the streets.

But from what I can tell and the people in Sinaloa that I've spoken to, they're still yet to make those precursors

tangible enough to actually make the fentanyl from them.

But they're already trying to cut out China.

They're trying to cut China out.

Yeah, by making the precursors.

That's why they're doing it.

They want to cut China.

Cut China out.

Increase your profits.

Cut out that middleman, not even a middleman, because they're supplying the necessary goods to produce this deadly drug.

But once the cartels figure out how to make the precursors,

fentanyl will become more accessible than ever before, more deadly than ever before.

And I think the U.S.

certainly knows that the cartels are trying to make the precursors, which is

definitely a big part of the reason of the crackdown.

I mean, it seems like they wouldn't want to cut China out.

Why not?

Because just because, I mean,

even though they don't have the same goals, I think the cartel is money and China is the reverse opium war.

You know, I mean,

they serve each other well, I guess is what I'm saying.

And so that's interesting that they want to cut them out.

I would think that they would want to align more, but.

I don't think it would be a, they would cut them out in a way where it ends on bad terms,

but rather it would just streamline the fentanyl production.

Would they still probably bring in some of the precursors?

Yeah, supplement the

supply.

But

it won't be to the same extent.

And it wouldn't end with a bad taste in anyone's mouth because certainly they leverage a good relationship with China.

Interesting.

Let's take another quick break.

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All right, Katarina, we're back from the break.

I wanted to ask you one thing, too,

that's just kind of

out there about the TikTok influencer that God

killed

live streaming.

So,

Valeria was

a famous influencer in Mexico.

She had that buccona look, which is, you know, the body, small waist, you know, curves, long blonde hair from Guadalajara.

And

Guadalajara is a hotspot.

It's the CGNG, you know, birthplace, Jalisco.

And so a lot of people followed her because she was pretty, but also because she was always on live streaming, keeping it pretty real.

She would just eat her favorite snacks on there.

And actually, since she was murdered, people in her memory have been like buying her favorite snacks and posting about it and to keep her alive.

Now she's on this live stream and she's at her beauty salon that she owned.

And

she tells the audience that

she's been told she's receiving three gifts that day.

And the last one is going to be an expensive gift.

And so

she's kind of talking through.

She's excited.

And a friend of hers is also at the salon with her.

And first, she gets a Starbucks.

A delivery man comes by, drops a Starbucks.

And

I think at that same delivery, she got

a plushie of a pig.

And

it's so interesting because in Mexico too, like a pig or a pig's head is really significant.

You know, it's like puerco.

So you get a lot of the times too, people will, in Guadalajara, even, when people take out hits, they'll leave a pig's head on top of that person.

Show that person was dirty or vile, whatever the message it may be.

And she got that plushie.

And then she gets flowers.

And then she's waiting for her third most expensive gift.

And she starts saying in the live stream, she goes, Yamé on die.

Like,

I'm creeped out.

Something's wrong.

And you can tell she's kind of on edge.

And she says, you know what, girls, I think I'm going to go.

I'm kind of of creeped out.

And her friend tells her behind the camera, no, you can't go.

There's another gift coming for you.

And some context to this is that Baleria had received gifts from viewers before.

She really liked gifts and she would talk about how she would date men who would give her extravagant gifts.

And a lot of viewers would send her things.

And someone comments in the chat, you shouldn't tell people where you are.

And she says,

Well, you know, everyone knows that this is my salon, something along those lines.

And then a delivery man comes.

She's looking out and she mutes the live.

And then you just see her take three bullets.

And the first bullet, I've watched this video so many times at this point.

She's wearing like a chain necklace.

And the first bullet, because people were saying it was fake and that it didn't look like the bullet even hit her, but the first bullet hits her necklace and her necklace goes flying off.

It hits the pendant, the whole necklace goes flying off.

She gets shot again, and then she gets shot in the head.

And she's like slumped over, and her hair is covering her whole face.

So

the video is really jarring because you're seeing a woman get murdered on live, get being shot three times, but it's not like this cinematic boom, boom, boom.

And she's all bludgeoned, and she just kind of slumps in and she's holding the pig plushie too,

dead.

and the friend comes over picks up the phone and turns off the live stream

and people were saying you know you didn't hear screaming but it's important to keep in mind she muted the live why did she mute the live if she was so scared why didn't she leave she already had that feeling

And so people are saying that the friend set her up or that her ex-boyfriend who is allegedly part of organized crime,

I want to say, like objectively, just an unattractive guy, especially for a girl who is, she's very beautiful.

She had a very striking look.

They say he was responsible for it.

But the interesting thing is, you know,

where is the forensics in Mexico and an investigation?

She was murdered now like weeks ago at this point.

And

nobody

has come out to say who the main suspects are, what the state of the investigation is.

And this became international news because

there's this beautiful girl being murdered on TikTok live stream

and people interacting with her as she's talking about being scared.

People in the comments were even saying to her,

if you feel weirded out or uncomfortable, just go home.

I mean, if this was a hit

that was planned on her,

then it would have happened no matter where she was.

Then you have a lot of conspiracy theorists or people, conspiracies going around saying that she didn't actually die.

She was probably being threatened.

And so she faked her death on live and that it was AI.

And

it doesn't, the way the blood splatters on the table and the way she falls over holding the plushie, it just doesn't look like someone who had been shot three times.

So

this, though, the murder speaks volumes to the state of Mexico, like the entire country.

Because over the past couple of months, a lot of YouTubers and social media influencers have fallen victim to being publicly murdered like this.

Whether they have narco-ties or not is one thing, but this is certainly sending a message.

If you do not do what we say or follow our agenda, especially with the large platform you have, or you do us dirty,

you're dead.

And,

you know, the problem too with this being so publicized is there's a lot of false information that's coming out and a lot of false theories that people are taking and running with as if it's fact.

So, and then people are also editing fake videos of her.

I saw one video of her and it's very hard to tell if it's real or not, where she's got a song in the background and she's kind of like lip-syncing it.

And the caption on the video is like,

basically to the gist of, you know, use men.

for what they can give you, enjoy the benefits of it, but, you know, basically like have multiple guys who can give you nice things and don't get attached.

And people were saying, you know, she was a gold digger who messed with the wrong

person

and she got her karma, which at the end of the day, someone was murdered.

So it's really fucked up to say that, even if this isn't a perfect victim to you.

But it's also hard to tell what is real and what isn't about her because it's such a publicized case.

She had such a large platform on social media.

And there doesn't seem to be much transparency with her investigation.

Why do you think she was murdered?

One of two reasons.

So, I have two theories.

I think the one that sticks out to me the most is she was probably dating the wrong guys.

She

didn't grow up wealthy, and she came from very humble beginnings.

And I think that, you know, she's a beautiful girl, and she

used that to her advantage, dated guys who were

cartel associates, part of organized crime, and she pissed someone off.

She had already posted previously on her Instagram

screenshots of messages with a boyfriend

where he was threatening to kill her and said, you've never seen me mad and you don't want to see me mad, but you're going to force me to do something I don't want to do.

And she posted and said, if something happens to me or my family, it's this guy.

So that's what I think happened is that she broke up with a guy who had a very fragile ego or she did him dirty in some way

in terms of their relationship and he sought revenge

and he did it publicly to send a message.

It makes sense to do it on live.

This is what happens if you're going to fuck with me or make a fool of me.

You die.

And the way that the message was set up, you know, getting the pig plushie, three gifts, and then the last one is the most expensive and you get three bullets.

That's,

it's,

looks like a narco hit.

But then there is that other part of me that maybe wonders, you know, maybe,

maybe that so-called friend wasn't actually a friend.

Because

I talked to my best friend about it and I said, what would you do if we were just sitting there and I got shot?

Because, you know, especially with this job, I run the risk.

and she said i would freak out and she goes i don't think that i would even have the capacity to think about picking up your phone and turning off the live and and then attending to you the first thing would be to attend to the person

but that's purely speculation was the shooter on video there is cctv video of a of a

guy coming up on a motorcycle outside on the live stream though no so maybe she

maybe she shut it off before that I mean, he was probably wearing a mask, but maybe she shut it off before that reveal happened.

Well, yeah, because the phone is facing her and

she's facing the window.

So you can see when she's receiving these gifts, or you can see when she sees someone comes up to give her a gift and her friend was on the other side

in the salon.

Gotcha.

And then some people are saying, well, if you look at where the bullets came from, they didn't come from in front.

They came from the side.

And the friend probably took that moment to shoot her.

But this also happens a lot in Mexico.

I mean, anywhere.

You know,

the pretty girl gets killed.

It's like the Gabby Petito case.

It becomes this huge debacle and there's so many theories.

But in Mexico, it's particularly distinct because there is also that element of organized crime and corruption and lack of...

oversight in investigations.

And so something like this happens and people want justice.

Are you going to get that justice?

It depends on who the perpetrator is.

How about propaganda?

How are they recruiting?

What are they using?

Propaganda, I would say, you know, it's funny because you asked me, how do you tackle the cartels and this whole issue?

I think propaganda, based on what I've seen, is one of the major components that needs to be tackled first.

And

we're nowhere near there because propaganda at this point, cartel propaganda, is deeply entrenched in every aspect of Mexican culture, society, and daily life.

How so?

So,

first things first, the music.

Okay, you have these narco corridos

songs that are literally dedicated to certain capos or certain cartels, and they are fully, blatantly glamorizing this lifestyle.

The singers are, you know,

whether it's

Peso Pluma, Junior Ace, Natanel Cano, there's so many of them.

The list goes on, but they're super popular.

They top charts in Mexico and in the United States, too.

In their music videos, they have the Rolex Presidential whole Gucci outfit.

And they're singing about, you know,

They're being they're strapped up with the scar

and they drive the cars around that are fully armored.

They get their money.

They're selling the merchandise and they make this life seem so enticing.

You have so much money.

You have all these hot girls.

You have all of everything that's trendy.

And you have a great beat to accompany it.

Because I must say, like, sometimes I listen to these songs too and I'm like, this is great.

This is a great song.

But what it's the narrative it's pushing is absolutely horrible.

And so the Mexican government has tried to crack down on this.

I mean, corridos have been banned in Sinaloa for a while, and a lot of other states have banned this music genre in public places, at establishments,

at concerts.

Actually, a lot of Mexican musicians are now being sanctioned and having their visas revoked by the U.S.

for their lyrics, what they're singing, because it so explicitly promotes cartel propaganda.

And the Mexican government plays their role, and the federal government actually just put out this initiative, Mexico Canta, Mexico Sings,

to encourage people to participate in like this

basically a competition where you can play music, you have a band or sing a song, original singer-songwriter, whatever it is, but that it has nothing to do with cartels or narco-propaganda.

And

the interesting thing is,

when the Mexican government talks about this genre of music, they particularly focus on violence against women, violent acts, and drug trafficking.

What they're missing, that is the key point, is, hey, young people, this is propaganda.

This life is actually not as cool as these songs are making them seem to be.

This is how you die.

This is how you end up like Vualeria.

You want to be that pretty girl with a rich guy on your side?

Yeah, well, guess what?

He might kill you afterwards.

And a lot of these young people in Mexico certainly fall for it.

And I don't blame them.

You're being inundated with this music, these TV shows, this culture that's promoting a lifestyle that on the surface seems so luxurious.

Wouldn't you want to have the extra cash too?

You're growing up in a place place where both of your parents are working very hard and maybe you can't even afford your schooling.

But

buddy on the radio is telling you that

you could pick up your parents in a G-Wagon.

You just have to take part of this lifestyle.

And so the propaganda is deep in the pop culture.

On the other hand, you have blatant forms of propaganda

through social media which now has exploded for them I mean it's social media is a

major tool for the cartels and Mexico has also tried to crack down on this they're constantly banning tick tock accounts that are promoting cartel propaganda or trying to recruit people what does that propaganda look like what is it on tick tock yeah

it's is it the same stuff luxurious lifestyle lots of flashy shit it's it's the flashy flashy shit but it's also the actual operations.

You'll have like a good song and they're showing them loading up kilos into a light aircraft and flying it across Pablo Escobar style.

They kind of switch the aesthetic based on whichever platform they're on and who they're trying to appeal to.

Gotcha.

So

you have...

those type of TikTok accounts and they're showing the money, they're showing the guns, but they're also showing the actual warfare.

They are showing some of the ugly side of it, but they're making it seem cool.

It's like militarized.

And then you'll have a link in the bio of that TikTok account that you click it and it directly opens a WhatsApp group chat.

That's the beginning step of cartel recruitment where you're joining.

Yeah, you're joining this group chat and you have certain higher level operatives for the cartel in there that will ask you certain questions or tell you what you're getting into.

And then they vet you based on your answers to those questions or the personal information you give.

Then you move into a different group chat and then another one.

And it kind of goes down the steps uh to the point where you're then in direct contact with high-level cartel operatives who are actively helping you get into the cartel and literally to the point where it's like okay a car will come and pick you up from your address now now that you've shown us that you are willing to be a part of our our group And it'll take you to a bus station.

You get on that bus.

You're going to meet us here and you're going to train for six months in the mountains of Puerto Vallerta.

So

the social media is just the first step to this.

And it's major for them because without numbers, without this support, the cartels can't function.

And if you have vulnerable, impressionable young people who are looking for a fatter paycheck, who are enamored by this lifestyle and who want to be a part of something,

You have the perfect victim and you take them in and you absolutely abuse the shit out of them and dehumanize them and you turn them into a machine.

And you give them some money.

And now this is the beginning part of someone working for the cartel.

How do they advance?

Is this all like family members that stay at the top?

Or how do you advance if you're, you know,

just a new guy?

Yeah, that's just one to get recruited and get in there.

So it is mainly family members, but then it's about proving your loyalty.

How much are you going to do for us?

And especially if when you prove your loyalty, it's successful.

So a good example of this could be

you're starting off, you're, you know, fresh in the cartel.

You just got out of the training.

And

then you find out that one of the National Guard members that you guys are paying off is actually acting as an informant.

or

also on the adversary's payroll, whatever the case may be, right?

And then you go and you tell the boss, hey, I know this, this, and this.

I'll go kill him.

Or I'll go torture him.

Then you move your way up.

Or,

hey, I know a way that we can move this much of this amount of undetected fentanyl

from

one American state to another.

No one's going to figure it out.

And I have a good connect over there.

Let's do it.

Okay.

They run the operation.

Profits increase.

Now you're on your way up.

Gotcha.

It's action-based

and

really showing loyalty, your willingness to die for the organization.

But this all starts off, yeah, on social media.

It's, it's ridiculous.

And the Mexican government has done like a crackdown.

They've removed multiple TikTok accounts, but there can only be so much oversight with that.

Social media is so vast.

And

particularly when you have young people who are using a tool that didn't exist before, because virtual propaganda has always existed.

We've seen like in Juarez back in the early 2000s and even today, but you know, you have people hanging from bridges, pants pulled down, and a narcomanta on top of them, a message to whoever is next, or this is what will happen to you if you act like these rats.

That's a form of propaganda, but that is tangible, blatant propaganda.

You bring social media into the mix, it fucks up the whole game.

Because

how do you apply any oversight to this?

How do you ensure that young people aren't being targeted just through the phone that they always have in their hand?

And that's why

the social influencers, media influencers, are main targets.

A major YouTuber in Mexico, Marquito's Toys, he has millions of subscribers.

He shows this flashy lifestyle.

He's from Sinaloa.

His brother was murdered in Baja California.

And then

it's constant.

It's constant.

Are you saying they're murdering influencers as part of the propaganda machine?

It's certainly part of the propaganda because it sends a loud message.

And I think a lot of these influencers also have a role, their role in organized crime,

whether it's

laundering money or pushing some sort of narrative.

In Mexico, a lot of the time when you make a lot of money or you gain a platform, somehow the cartel will find a way to use you

to push their agenda forward.

What kind of narrative would they be sending out

through an influencer?

Exactly this, the propaganda that they're not the bad guys.

That this is or that this is a luxury lifestyle and you should be part of it.

Okay, So it's, it's basically, it's essentially the same thing as the songs.

Yeah.

It's, it's the recruitment.

And

also

to put pressure on their adversaries.

So the, the music does it too.

The YouTubers do it too.

It's very much like, where was CJ and G, Cuatro letras,

fuck whoever else our adversary is.

And it, it garners larger support throughout the population for that one cartel.

Like even nowadays, people will ask me, who do you want to win in Sinaloa?

Chapo or Mayo?

And I'm like, what do you mean?

And there are people have those conversations.

I will be at a regular dinner with people who have absolutely nothing to do with this.

They're completely out of the realm.

And they're talking about which side of the faction they support.

And that's what the propaganda is doing.

Do you think they're

using reporters like yourself as part of their propaganda machine?

I think so.

And I think that's why a lot of reporters die, are murdered, because a lot of reporters don't want to be a part of that.

But for the most part, they have no choice, especially people who are working for small to medium-sized outlets in regions where there is such a cartel stronghold.

And they don't want certain news stories to get out, or they want certain news stories to get out with a narrative.

Yeah.

And they're not even getting paid for that.

It's just a life or death scenario.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Wow.

How much of this, how much of the cartel's money are they, are they,

or

how much money in general are they seeding into U.S.

politics?

A lot of the cartel money is in the U.S., point blank.

Whether that is through the shell companies or certain operations that they're conducting in the U.S.

In terms of politics,

there are a number

of U.S.

politicians or U.S.

authorities in law enforcement

that are on the cartel payroll.

For the most part, this happens in border towns

or in states that are major profit regions for the cartel.

So that's California, Texas, Arizona.

So are these local governments or

all the way up to?

It goes up high on the food chain.

How high?

How high are they getting?

To the federal level.

To the federal level.

Yeah.

I've seen it firsthand.

What, who in the federal level?

Senators, congressmen?

What are we talking about?

FBI agents?

Do you have any idea?

On the federal level,

cartels have basically infiltrated

any member of politics that they believe they can get to, that is willing to work with them,

and

that can push policy that directly benefits them.

So whether it's senators, congressmen,

DEA, ICE, even

they have their clause

in all of these departments.

Do you think these people know that it's the cartel

who's influencing them?

I think think a lot of them do.

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How would you know?

How would I know that these people know?

Or how would they know?

Would the cartel want these people to know that that's who the,

I mean, basically it's lobbying, right?

So does would the cartel want their

quote-unquote lobbying firm being known as, I would think they wouldn't want them known as, this is a cartel lobbying firm, this is set up by, you know, the Sinaloa or whoever.

I think, I think, I think if I was them, I would try to get my narrative or whatever I'm lobbying for to appear as something innocent or just money-driven.

Do you see what I'm saying?

I wouldn't want the

I wouldn't want the individual to know that it's coming from a cartel because that would be

less incentivizing and it's

blatantly illegal.

It happens both ways.

So certainly they have these lobbying groups set up or

they can push their agenda in a way where it doesn't seem like it's directly coming from them.

Now, at the end of the day, I have an issue with this because I find that it's hard not not to know.

Anyone with half a brain, especially if you're in a high-ranking position of power,

you can dig deep enough to figure it out.

And

they do have ways to use it to their advantage with certain companies they have.

I mean, what would they, I mean, you wouldn't have to like...

What's an obvious one?

An obvious one they would be lobbying for would be border security.

Yes.

So nobody would have to know that it's the cartel that's lobbying for that specific, you know, for the border.

They could just, they could do the, you know, they could just get a group of people that,

I mean, the U.S.

is very divided.

They could just get somebody that thinks that we should have open borders and create that group and fund it.

And then all it is, is just a bunch of people that want to let

illegal immigrants through, you know what I mean?

And they, and they, and they lobby that.

So it doesn't, it doesn't have to, that's how I would do it.

I mean, but what other things would they be lobbying for other than open borders?

It would be open borders.

It would be lack of oversight of agriculture coming from Mexico.

It would certainly be

drug policies, so like safe supply stuff.

And also,

I think a major one

would be the arms dealing too, because

the majority of

the guns that are used at Mexican crime scenes, like 70%, are American-made firearms.

So all of their guns are coming from, most of their guns are coming from the U.S.

And so

they're not going to want that to shut down or to stop at any point in time.

Because without those weapons, they can't commit the crimes.

And because you can't really get a gun in Mexico the way you can get a gun here, which is exactly why they use that to their advantage.

So that would be, and not to mention a lot of the straw buyers who are moving guns from the U.S.

into Canada to arm these same people.

So that's a big one that I believe that they're lobbying for.

I mean, yeah, the border one is a big one, but

without the guns, They can't run any of their operations.

But you asked, you know, why would they want

people to know that they are curtail if they're lobbying or have certain, they have money in certain aspects of the federal government.

I think in some ways, sometimes them instilling that fear does work depending on what the initiative is.

And I think they do use that to their advantage sometimes.

And there are certain

people that they can have in their pockets, knowing that the fear and knowing that the cartel is on my ass is going to keep them

doing exactly what they want and keep them from moving away or speaking out.

Because once you have the cartel on your ass, the only way to get out of that is basically to die.

That's certainly less of the circumstance, but it is happening.

How are they using the migrant crisis as a tool?

Like people crossing the board

as a tool for what?

Yeah.

Cartel's control over human crossings, including children, the use of distraction groups to tie up border patrol and the human cost, rape, enslavement, and exploitation of migrants.

It sounds I have it as they're using it as a tool for all these things.

Can you elaborate on any of that?

I mean...

I have no idea.

What is the use of distraction groups?

The use of distraction groups is so that they can get people and drugs across the border.

There was actually just a video about this.

It was

in Texas where you have these five guys in a pickup truck and they're doing donuts around and

all the CBP pulls up on them and they're trying to outrun them.

Well, at the same time, that's happening.

There's people, a coyote illegally crossing people or drugs across the border.

And that's a really common tool that they use where they'll, you know, they're trying to distract them one way and do something else.

They do these smoke screens and not just

blatantly like that at the border, but with a lot of other actions too.

Especially when.

So they're just creating a bunch of diversions.

Yes, they're creating a bunch of diversions.

They'll do this too, especially if there's like a high-level person who needs to get around.

And that can't typically cross

into Mexico or the U.S., vice versa.

Their regular border crossing.

And they need to move this person

in a stealth way.

So

they've gotten very good at knowing what captures American authorities' attention and how to use that so they can run these profitable or high-level operations at the same time that something else is going on.

Do you think they're aware of all the tech that we're implementing along the border wall and what exactly it does?

Do you have any insight on that?

I think that they, okay, so with the people I've spoken to, especially who are working in organized crime in border regions, they know that the border tech has been amped up.

In terms of to what extent,

not as much as they should, they don't know as much as they should know, but they are very hopeful.

I sound like a spokesperson for the cartel.

That's not the point here.

Oh my God.

This is just, you know, relaying the information.

But they're very hopeful in their ability to adapt because they've always done it.

It's just a matter of what has changed.

How has the U.S.

ramped it up?

The same thing they do with the Mexican government, actually.

Okay, you want to put these troops here?

Oh, you want to implement this, I don't know,

thermal technology that can tell you if someone's even close to the border along the over 2,000 miles that it spans, we're going to find a way around that.

They typically do that.

And that's why they've been so successful and profitable in every operation.

But I don't want to sound like a spokesperson for the cartel.

And I sometimes, you know, talking about exactly how they're reacting to certain things,

but they do adapt.

That's one thing.

There's a crackdown and they find another way.

I mean, it just happened in Sinaloa.

The U.S.

And Mexico were trying so hard, had this whole operation to get the main security enforcer for the Sinaloa cartel, La Peris.

They get him.

There's a new guy in, and he's bigger and batter than ever before.

I mean, they'll always find a way around it.

Oh, Trump and his first administration is cracking down on the southern border.

Fuck it.

Let's go to Canada.

And so you can put border technology across all 2,000 miles of the southern border and have it to the point where it is like Guantanamo Bay.

They find a way because if human smuggling and drug trafficking is just that profitable for them where they're making billions, tens of billions of dollars a year by doing it, they will find a way around it.

I mean, wouldn't that be an incentive for you?

Yeah.

And would you find a way around it?

I would try.

The thing is, I mean, I don't know how much we've actually

is still to this day, I don't know how much we've actually pushed them.

You know what I mean?

I think, you know, if it, if we get serious about this, I don't think they will find a way.

But.

And I agree with you.

I don't think they will either.

Because

cartels against full-fledged U.S.

government, that's just a complete power imbalance.

The issue stands with the U.S.

hasn't pushed as hard as it could.

And so.

The cartels do feel somewhat untouchable.

I mean, there are certain actions that, you know, you extradite the 29 Gapos, you get El Mayo into the States, you crack down.

Fentanyl, seizures at the border have gone down significantly.

Okay, but that's really just the tip of the iceberg.

And they're so used to operating in a country with so much corruption and impunity where money talks that if you had a government come in where none of that works, the old tricks don't work on this new dog, it would have to be a complete overhaul for them.

And like we talked about, they're certainly

preparing for this.

Have you heard any rumors about cartels aligning with traditional terrorist organizations?

Yeah.

What does that look like?

Especially with Iraq.

That's a huge thing.

In terms of training, what kind of weaponry they need,

and intelligence is a big one, particularly when targeting America.

So

I know that there was an operation

with Canadian authorities that were looking into organized crime groups operating with

terrorist groups and particularly in Iran.

And

the main objective of this was to find out how

the efforts between the two

were directly impacting Canadian intelligence efforts.

So they were trying to compromise all of the intelligence gathering and

covert operations that were going on through attacking their intelligence.

And

the thing about the Mexican drug cartels is,

especially since Trump's first administration,

they have had to amp up

their efforts in knowing what the U.S.'s next move is going to be because the U.S.

next move determines just how much money they're going to make and how they have to adapt.

And so Iran and Mexican drug cartels do have

a connection.

And this is with high-ups of the drug cartels

to understand

how the U.S.

is operating their intelligence,

what type of actions the U.S.

could potentially take or is taking silently against drug cartels, and ensure that they kind of build a firewall around themselves.

In terms of weaponry,

a lot of the techniques and certain arms that drug cartels are using, particularly now,

have been learned from

organized terrorist groups that have been around forever

and

on a side note it goes into their propaganda too because mexican drug cartels post that typical press release video um admitting or denying a certain fatal tragedy that occurred or something that like a big news story they address it head on they have the script they have the lighting they even have the logo the banner on it and the background music, just like the same way ISIS was doing and the Taliban.

And those

videos now, like when ISIS and the Taliban was doing it, it was on social media, whatever, but it was mainly being sent to news outlets or, you know, they were posting it on their page.

It was, it was more

confined.

Whereas now, it's just, you put it out there and it spreads like a virus.

And so a lot of their techniques, which is why why it's interesting that it took so long to declare Mexican drug cartels as foreign terrorist organizations, because a lot of their techniques, whether it comes to gathering intelligence or infiltrating the U.S.

or Canada, and

the way they are able to manage public perception of themselves, it completely matches that of traditional terrorist groups.

Wow.

The only difference I would say is the way a lot of these traditional terrorist groups would directly go and attack Americans, right?

Like there was a bomb.

There was a shooting.

Someone drove through a crowd.

For Mexican drug cartels, it's chemical warfare.

It's drugs.

They don't need to go and plant a bomb in the name of drug cartels.

Do you think it'll ever get kinetic with

down at the southern border?

If American boots hit Mexican soil.

I've been saying this, and I really do believe that

if American, especially tier one operators,

get into Mexico, we're going to see that traditional terrorism style happen in the U.S., particularly along the border region.

Because at that point, it's like what we said, they have nothing to lose, and they will go down with a fight.

And if they're already working with traditional terrorist groups, they know what the playbook says.

Man, that's terrifying to hear.

What do you think the U.S.

and Canada should be doing that we're not doing?

I think there needs to be

You know, it's gotten better, especially at the southern border.

I really believe so.

And I've been covering that region since for a while now.

So you can kind kind of compare the differences.

But what needs to be done is to tackle the root of the problem, the indoctrination and the financial pipelines.

Because

grabbing this, you know, picking up this big guy that runs a major faction and flaunting him around and parading him and saying, look what we did.

We captured this guy.

That works for five minutes before it's just as bad as again.

or worse.

After they got El Mayo, the Sinaloa cartel just fucking exploded.

It made hell.

Like, life was a living hell, is a living hell for a lot of people in that region.

And so, I think tackling it at its root is what needs to happen.

But that's a huge operation that goes beyond just going in and doing this covert mission to grab someone.

You have to

somehow put a stop to propaganda at its deepest form, monitor the socials,

and target financial pipelines, like I said, remittance apps, the banks,

the companies that are fronting for these groups.

And that's a lot harder, I think.

Do you think that's harder?

Yeah, that would be tough.

It could be done.

But I, you know, what's interesting is I just, I just don't think that we have really pushed on them at all.

And so it'll be if that time comes.

I mean, to me, securing our border is not pushing back.

That's just shit that we should have done a long time ago.

It's a bad day.

But if we actually go on the offensive, then, I mean, I think this could be wrapped up.

What would the offensive look like for you?

Like I said, I think what I would do is initially

pit them against each other to weaken them

to keep our people safe.

You know, let's weaken them as much as we possibly can.

In the meantime, you know, you could send in the intel reps, the operatives to start tackling the financials.

You know, you could outbid them on the gas.

There's a lot of things you could do.

Then I'd do that.

And then

to wrap it up, I would send in the tier one units.

And I think it is slowly happening.

To demoralize them also.

Yeah.

A lot of strikes.

Because it is a psychological game, too.

Yeah.

There is, you know, aside from the CIA planes that are flying over the northern states, there's a vessel that's docked, a U.S.

vessel that's docked at the Port of Veracruz.

The border is militarized.

And

then you have like

ICE DEA working, allegedly working with Mexican forces to conduct operations without having to step foot in Mexico.

But I, it seems to be like these are all precursors to something bigger that could potentially happen, especially if the U.S.

isn't seeing the result that it wants, which is what?

Demoralized cartels, less fentanyl, less human smuggling, or for it to stop altogether, which I just don't see happening.

But at the end of the day, you still have to deal with this big figurehead, which is the Mexican government, who has too much reason not to crack down on these guys.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I mean,

it is what it is with them it's our people that are being affected you know for sure they don't want to help their people that's on them but but what the hell do i know i'm just a podcaster so

anyways

well i forgot to give you something here at the beginning okay so

do it at the end oh everybody gets a gift thank you so much vigilance elite gummy bears so excited in the year asking me about this not smuggled across the border but um but before we wrap it up what are you getting ready to get into?

Anything exciting?

Yes, I'm really excited.

So I just did a, I'm doing my podcast with Ironclad Borderland Dispatches.

So I'm basically just going boots on the ground to show

people exactly what's happening without having, you know, you know, I try to always do beyond the headline reporting where I go and I speak to the people who are affected right there and paint the picture of what's going on.

So on borderline dispatches, I went to the southern border and then I went up to the northern border.

I showed everyone just how open it is.

And soon we're going to be going in back to Mexico to just show some of the curtail-ridden regions and how it varies from different areas and who's running what.

Does that mean you're having a crew go with you?

I operate alone.

Good for you, man.

I've been doing that.

And actually, it's funny.

A lot of people don't know that, but I've always done this alone.

So it's a lot of work, but I think it's worth it.

You know, that's a trust thing, too.

I feel like if I go in alone, more people will talk to me and share more information.

It's disarming.

Well, where can we find you?

You can find me on the podcast, Apple, Spotify, Borderland Dispatches.

I also have my sub-stack.

It's my full name, Katerina Schultz.

Everything is my full name with the most complicated spelling, S-Z-U-L-C.

All right, Katerina.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

I really appreciate you.

I appreciate you having me here.

And hope to see you again.

Likewise.

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