#198 Blerim Skoro - CIA & FBI Asset / Al-Qaeda Infiltrator

Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game day scratchers from the California Lottery.

Play is everything.

Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

Hey, a little play makes your day, and today it made the game.

That's all for now.

Coach, one more question.

Play the new Los Angeles Chargers, San Francisco 49ers, and Los Angeles Rams Scratchers from the California Lottery.

A little play can make your day.

Please play responsibly.

Must be 18 years or older to purchase, play, or claim.

If you're a lineman in charge of keeping the lights on, Granger understands that you go to great lengths and sometimes heights to ensure the power is always flowing, which is why you can count on Granger for professional-grade products and next day delivery so you have everything you need to get the job done.

Call 1-800-GRANGER, clickgranger.com, or just stop by.

Granger for the ones who get it done.

We're gonna come to the points how I was offered from ISIS to become leader of ISIS.

So, September 11, I'm in a cell with one of the terrorists.

The first flight hit, he jumps on the bogging band and happy.

This is from my leader.

Now, I'm thinking if I kill this guy in a prison or not.

I see two guys coming down, and they pull the gun, shot me four times, not once.

They taught you how to make bombs.

Absolutely.

All right, kind of

Blarum Scorow, welcome to the show.

Thank you very much.

Honor to be in your show.

Honor to have you.

Thank you.

Band, you've got a hell of a life story.

Growing up in Kosovo, coming in, being recruited by the CIA as an asset, infiltrating al-Qaeda, an assassination attempt.

I mean, this is going to be a really good interview.

Really good interview.

Yes, it is going to be good.

And your story is so interesting.

They're doing a documentary about you.

Yes.

When's that coming out?

Hopefully we're planning soon.

Yep.

I don't have too much control over that.

It's people involved, but it's going to come soon.

Do you know where it's going to go?

We are guesting

May 21st to May 26th in California for six days.

And after that, I will find out what's going to be the next step.

But I am in California, in Hollywood,

from May 21st to May 26th.

Congratulations.

Thank you very much.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Well, everybody starts off with an introduction here.

So

here we go.

Blerum Skoro, Kosovan Albanian immigrant and former Yugoslav army soldier who deserted to escape ethnic persecution during the Kosovo war, turned to crime to save your family from genocide, smuggling drugs to fund their escape from Kosovo, only to face an eight-year prison sentence in 2000.

Then became a CIA asset who infiltrated al-Qaeda after 9-11, all for a chance to reunite with your American-born wife and daughters.

You survived an assassination attempt in 2010 while serving as a CIA informant, a husband, and a father who won a landmark immigration case in 2022.

And now you drive a cab in New York City.

Your story is the subject of a new documentary.

called The Accidental Spy, which hopefully comes out in May.

So, a couple of things to

knock out here real quick.

We have

a Patreon account

and we've grown quite the community there.

We actually

took all their names.

We're building a new studio.

It's about three and a half times the size of this.

We took all 28,000 people who have ever been a Patreon member and supported us.

And we just put that on the wall.

inside and the whole studio will be built around it.

But one of the things I do is I offer them them the opportunity to ask each and every guest a question.

A question, excuse me.

So this is from Tin Dog.

Do you consider yourself a patriot of the U.S.

or a subversive because of the betrayal?

Where is your head at today?

I am 100% American pitcher.

I thought you would say that.

Thought you would say that.

And I'm proud to be that.

Good, good.

Well, we're proud to have you.

Thank you.

We're proud to have you.

So, quick answer.

But, um,

and then lastly,

you watch the show.

So, you know, everybody gets a gift.

Thank you very much.

I appreciate it.

Vigilance elite gummy bears.

Yes.

People in all 50 states.

There you go.

But

this is going to be a heavy interview.

And I hope.

I hope we go down some rabbit holes.

I mean, just since you've been here, you brought up the fact that

something about Uranian coming out of Russia.

I definitely want to dive into that and

some of your outlook on Syria that we just discussed off camera.

So, but let's start with life in Kosovo.

So you're born in 1971 in Kosovo during a time of ethnic tension under Yugoslav rule.

I was

obligatory service in Yugoslav army.

What was the worst war ever existed Balkans.

I know you've been seeing a lot and a lot of the viewers and a lot of the guests,

but I saw also very bad and a lot.

I was in a group with one of the most dangerous criminal

Rajnatovich known aka Arkhan.

Wow.

And I see, I witnesses with my own eyes behating, killing, rape,

you name it.

All of it.

And I survived.

How young were you when you started witnessing those things?

I tell you, my 20 years birthday was in the military.

So I started 19 years old.

So you started seeing beheadings, rapes, all these kind of things as age 20.

As a 20-year-old kid.

What was the first time you saw a beheading?

I didn't believe it.

First, I thought it's like

something you watch in the movie.

I saw a woman getting raped from those

paramilitary groups of Arkhan

and there was a Croatians.

I was in the Yugoslav army and

to me was I didn't believe because when we

called for duty, we called for duty to serve the country against enemy outside, not inside of the own people.

So Croats, that time when I was serving, it was still Yugoslavia, which I started,

I started my service March 20, 1991 and I was you know serving because even that time Albanians from Kosovo we had no rights we was considered like second class citizens

because history of ourselves it's albania Kosovo used to be always part of the Albania because the communism dictator it broke up and the Yugoslavia took over my country but the history it's always there it's a black and white we cannot change it some people may like some people don't like but Kosovo was part of the Albania.

So we started this uprise, you know, to be separated from Yugoslavia, but we couldn't do it.

We always had a lot of issues and stuff, and

we couldn't do it.

Then I was called in March 20

to 1991, and I started, I finished three months of training, which is in the beginning, it was eight weeks, if I don't make a mistake, and they start war in Slovenia.

I was in a training camp in one of the cities of Yugoslavia, a city called Shabats.

It's very close to the Croatian border.

That's where

I started my

military training for war.

That's a little different than regular training.

That's how I came out to see one of the worst criminal Rajnatovich Arkhan.

And there was volunteers.

I was regular military.

And we started those training and stuff and one time

I never talked in my life.

CIA know this part but my family of course knows.

When we was in a training you have some pictures we can demonstrate if you want later

in the camp.

It's a pictures in the camp.

I was ordered, it was stolen weapons in that camp from

those volunteers.

And when we say volunteers, it's a two different groups.

I was in regular military and there was those Chetniks volunteers.

Those they're butchering people, women, raping, those with a group of Rajnetovich Arkhan.

And since the military officers saw me like I was little kind of skilled soldier, they put me to be security, not to allow nobody to move in a base.

And group of six or seven of them, they tried to sneak in and I tell them, you cannot go in, stop.

And they don't want to stop and then I second time because that's how was

our rules you ask them one time to stop if they don't stop then second time you pull the gun you put the bullet in the chamber and you're ready to shoot and they don't want to stop that's first time in my life I shoot in the people that was

June or July of 1991

and I was age 20.

I never talked in no media this part of the story.

First time in my life.

But when I said I didn't talk, CIA knew what everything.

So when you come to, I did a polygraph test to the CIA.

But we're not going to change the subject where it's beginning.

And

so you shot.

in a group of six or seven volunteers of the Chetniks, the worst Chetniks.

You have the picture.

I did send it to you guys the picture.

I shot in them with AK-47 like nothing.

Like first time in my life shooting to the people was that in age 20.

Did you kill them?

I cannot say that if I killed, but they don't want to say it, but I know everybody was laid down in the ground.

Nobody was moving.

But I pulled the trigger, and I know I'm a sharp shooter.

I don't miss easy.

I'm very good in a shooting.

Maybe one of them went down, but definitely I did shot in a group of them.

And then that's how I become like a very honor to the military, Yugoslav military.

Like, you know, I create a trust.

And then we still continue in a training camp in

a city shabbats.

Exactly.

You didn't go to make sure they were dead or anything?

No, I cannot.

You're not allowed because the officers come and escort me right away and they took them out and we're not allowed.

You know, it's a strict rules.

If you shoot, then they have to escort you,

keep you in a safe place for a couple of days and I was given a pistol extra from the my one of the

officers

in case he said if you get problem with one gun you have a extra spare gun so he kind of liked me and he gave me his personal gun and I kept for a couple of weeks or a month wow did that bother you at age 20 to to potentially kill

Honestly, I feel very great because I knew that I was shooting in Serbians and we considered them enemy of my country, enemy of my people.

And in my, for example, I didn't talk too much

from all these 35 years about this.

I left because, you know, sometimes legacy, it's good to leave.

in the end of the story of your life.

But my family knows very well the story, my kids know very well, and it's 100% true.

And I communicate after 35 years with officers who helped me 35 years years ago.

I communicated just recently, a couple of months ago.

No kidding, they still remember.

They are retired in the Yugoslav former Yugoslav military.

And they said, we were proud what you did at that time.

And what did you call them?

Did you call them?

Chechems?

No,

it was a Yugoslav officer captain first class.

It was regular officers in Yugoslav military.

So

that's Serbians, Chetniks.

Chetniks.

So when I shot, I shot in the Chetniks.

So this was Yugoslav regular Yugoslav military.

So it's a little too different.

My officer didn't like them because he knew they are criminals.

So he liked us.

So he liked the regular military, but he didn't like the volunteers.

Wow.

Because volunteers is the one who commit the genocide.

Wow.

And what about the beheadings and the rapes?

Who did you witness?

I witnessed

those

volunteers, Chetniks,

did to the Croats.

So I witnessed a woman got,

I know one part, for example, it was a woman that didn't have a 12 years child, kids.

She had a baby.

It was a nine month or 10 month old.

They killed the baby in front of me and the rest of the soldiers and they raped the lady and then they killed the lady too.

So I witnessed that.

It was somewhere in August of 1991.

I was present myself.

And then there was another story.

A former Yugoslav military guy finished his service and he came to visit his family in the city Vukovar.

It was one of the most dangerous wars in the city of Vukovar.

So he came in that to visit his family because he finished his service.

When they found out, he came over there, they killed his father and they killed a former soldier who served in Yugoslav military and they shot him from the behind.

They execute him, they kill his father first and then execute him.

I witnessed that too.

And then another part,

these Chetniks,

you have the pictures, they throw hand grenades, they put a woman and kids in one of the basements.

And I remember family, last name Chutura.

I helped them.

They throw hand grenades in the basement and me and one of my officers, he's originally from Bosnia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, but it was regular military.

He said it was around 2 a.m.

He said, let's go.

We hear the noise.

They held asking for help.

We went in a basement.

What we saw in that basement, all

murdered, killed women and kids.

And I went in and it was a little slippery.

And I said to the officer, you have any match or anything?

Because it's slippery.

And my foot was inside of the baby's body, right inside, at age 20.

And

it was an old lady over there calling for help in Croatian

pomognomy, pomognomy.

And I went and took the lady, she was old, butcher from hand grenades.

I took her out, less than 10-15 minutes, she passed away in my hand.

I tried to help her.

And then after like

start seeing all this, then you get used to it.

It's a war.

Of course, you're young in an age, but when you see all this thing, then it becomes like it's a normal.

You're in a war, war you have to do, you have to defend yourself, protect yourself, you not to get killed.

And we did the best.

For me, for example, we never

shoot innocent civilians.

Even I was more pro-Croats.

I was more able

dreaming to help Croats because we are more close with Croats than Serbs.

Serbs is Chetniks who are allied with Russia and we consider all its enemy.

So

the Serbs and the Chetniks are the same.

Are the same, yes.

Chetniks are

the base of them.

The more fanatics, like we have Islamic radical al-Qaeda and stuff, so Chetniks are in Serbians like that.

So if we compare with Al-Qaeda, so Chetniks are like Al-Qaeda.

And they were doing this to your people.

Not to my people, to Croats.

Then after a little while, when they started war in Kosovo, they was doing to my people.

But first, this was 1991.

And to my people, it was 96, 97, 98, 99.

So in 91, I was in a Yugoslav military.

Jeez.

How common was this?

Look, it was not unusual.

Like, for my generation, like,

even when I give an interview before in like short interview in English one of the newspaper I see people who I grew up they don't know me much because

we was young 15 16 years and I don't talk about stories like that it's not normal for me to talk you know because like one time I had nightmares I couldn't sleep for a little while because when I start talking about past what I saw you have the you have a trouble sleeping you know and I never want my my kids to know these kind of stories because I want my kids to grow up to love people, not to hate.

Because if you tell your child what you've been through, then they're gonna

have a bad feeling thinking, look at my father, what he went through.

You know, I wanna hate those people too.

So I don't wanna give

my kids

idea to hate anybody.

I want my kids, they are born and raised in the US.

I want to be free, not to be having hate in their mind.

Because when you start having hate, you have no space to love people.

So I wanted to be educated, extremely free and good, not to have ideas of the wars and murders and death.

So I want to be very calm and educated and civilized.

Wow, but there's not a lot of people that think like that.

No.

That's pretty big of you.

This is the story breaking right now.

Fox One is coming soon, which means soon you can be there live for all the biggest moments.

She is

gone!

And witness history as it's made.

It's not about me.

It's about what this human spaceflight program is about.

It's our national goals.

Get all of your favorite news, sports, and entertainment with the side of...

I think I'm going to have Peter.

All in one app, streaming live on August the 21st.

Fox One.

I've spent years on this show pulling back the curtain and trying to reveal what's really happening in this country.

And the truth is, there's a double standard here in America.

You see time and time again, people defending themselves, defending their family, and then the judicial system goes after them.

It's a double standard.

And if you don't believe me, check out episode number three with Don Bradley.

That is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Because it's not just about what you did, believe it or not, it's how the legal system interprets it.

And that's why I'm a USCCA member.

The USCCA has over 860,000 members because they know the reality is after you stop the threat, the real fight begins.

Your membership gives you the education, elite training, and self-defense liability insurance you need for the second fight, the legal one.

Plus, Every member also gets access to a 24-7 critical response team and attorney network in the event of a self-defense incident.

Violent crime happens too often in America.

This isn't about living in fear.

This is about being prepared when things go sideways.

You don't get to schedule danger, and with the world changing so fast, you have to do what you can to protect your family.

Check out the USCCA's risk-free membership at uscca.com/slash SRS.

That's USCCA.com/slash SRS.

Protect more than just your life, protect your future.

Go right now to uscca.com slash SRS.

How did you get into the military?

Was it voluntary or did they, was it somewhat of a draft?

No, I was obligatory military.

That time when I was in Yugoslavia, you must serve.

There was no choice because I couldn't have no passport.

I couldn't leave the country.

So I was a complete dictator.

You know, you must between age 18 and 20, at age 18, you have to go in a recruiting center for four or five days.

So if you

are capable to serve.

So I was in a recruiting center, I was 18 years old, and then at age 19 they sent me the letter, I have to serve the country.

And I took that responsibly, then I went and served the country.

I thought, you know, I'm serving a normal Yugoslavian country.

It's not like I'm going to be be part of the

committing genocide.

It was a clear genocide.

Nothing,

it's no secrets.

I passed that situation.

I was there until October 13

when complete Croatian city, Vukova, collapsed.

And I say it, I repeat it again.

Like I grew up with the people, they didn't even believe when they heard a little bit the story, they said, no, it's not that.

But trust me, I passed very ruthless war.

Look, I've been in Afghanistan.

I've been in countries, Iraq, and Syria and Lebanon and Jordan and all these countries.

I saw the wars.

I saw what al-Qaeda did.

But this war was also dangerous too.

Wow.

Wow.

And how long were you involved in that?

Until October 13, 1991.

From March 1991 until October 13.

Shit.

So around almost eight, nine months.

And who was committing the genocide?

Serbs, Chetniks.

Were you guys committing?

Me personally, not.

No.

But group in my side, yes.

Yes?

Absolutely.

How was the woman being raped?

How did that happen?

It's very bad.

I saw, I can tell you this.

I remember one picture I saw like today.

I never forget that

young, maybe 35 years old, one that took that child.

I couldn't do much, you know, because

look,

I thought many times if I turn my gun to everybody and kill all this, but the problem was family.

Because if he was doing that to Serbs and Chetniks, they was going to execute my family.

Because that's how they used to do to Albanians.

If Albanian guy shot a Serbian or Chetnik, then they was going to kill the family.

So then I was ruining my family.

It's not me to get killed.

I always thought I was like, since I grew up,

I grew up no fear.

Like,

I know one day I'm going to die.

I mean, weren't they trying to kill you anyways?

They tried.

They tried.

It was a time they said, look, we're going to crucify him.

When I shot those groups, there was rumors, oh, we're going to butcher him, we're going to make a cross in his body, those four asses.

You know, Chetniks, they have four asses, cross and four asses, because they knew that I was Muslim-born.

So they was

sending me threats through the soldiers and stuff.

But look, Sean, I'll be very honest, I was ready to die.

When I started that military, I said, regardless, if I die today or after 50 years, one day I'm going to die.

So I had no kids.

I was not married.

I was young.

So the age is, you know, the most dangerous age.

Age is, you don't fear nothing.

You know, not everybody.

I'm telling you,

you have kids like I can tell you, example, I have a boy 12 years old.

If you see him, he's a big giant boy, but he will not kill cockroaches.

He's so like polite and nice.

He was a daddy, no, don't kill that, you know.

But us was different because we had that hate between us and Serbians.

So we grew up, my grandfather was executed in a communist country.

My mother's father, he was executed in 1940.

So, and we grew up, you know, having that hate.

So, if I knew how my grandfather was executed, so now automatically my parents educate me, you know, look,

we live here, but those are our enemy.

You know, my grandfather was killed.

So now we cannot trust them.

So I was very educated and

trained to not to trust them.

So to be always prepared, you know, if you have a ever to come close, you have to defend yourself.

Or you're going to get killed or you have to kill.

So this was also a religious war.

It's not a religious war because I like us,

it was more like we grew up in communists.

Albanians was not religious the way it's in the Middle East.

You know, Albanians, we marry among Christians, we don't have no issue.

Albanian, it's like one of the best examples you can live in the

whole world because we have no issue, Christians or Muslims.

We are friends, we celebrate all Christmas, Ramadan all together.

So we have no issues between us.

Of course, lately we have very dangerous fanatics, we crazy fanatics, because Albanians came out to

go in a Syrian war over four number one country from the population, give more jihadists to the ISIS and al-Qaeda than any different countries.

So, but

us, we was not religious like that.

So we was modernize, educate, drink.

I was parroting, I was drinking, I was

doing life not different from you and the rest of the world.

So we was no issue with religion.

But

they used to look us like that.

The other side always used to look us, oh, they are dangerous because they are Muslims, you know, they can threat us, they can kill us.

But we was not like that.

And they were supposedly Christian?

Christians, yes, Orthodox Christians,

no different from Russians.

Holy shit.

But Croatians are Catholics.

With Croats, we have very good relations.

We never had issues with them.

Only with the Serbians, Chetniks, which they are, you know, like Slavic.

No different from Russians.

Wow.

What happened?

What happened with your parents?

Do you have any brothers and sisters?

One brother passed away here in eight, nine years ago.

One of them, oldest one, is in Switzerland.

I bring my parents and the rest.

And my parents passed away a few years ago in the United States.

They're all US citizens.

So I bring everybody.

I'm the one I sponsor for bringing all my family.

Only my wife and kids are born and raised here.

My parents become nationalized citizens from me here.

And did they fight too?

No, my parents not.

My father served in the Yugoslav military two years, but he served in 1960.

Your brothers?

My brother did service, but he didn't caught up in a war.

The youngest one, he came young here in the US, so he didn't went in a war.

How did it end?

The end was

good.

My older brother, he served in the Yugoslav military, he did in 1988, so that time was no war.

And my father did in 1940, it was no war that time.

And the rest of the family didn't serve.

How did the war end?

Very brutal.

Still,

it's a threat.

Croatia separated.

Yugoslavia is now seven countries.

It should start Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Macedonia, and Kosovo, Montenegro.

So it's seven different countries from Yugoslavia.

But still, we have little issues.

We have a U.S.

military in Kosovo, which is our number one protector.

To us, it's

Albanians, we believe God is in the sky, America, it's in the ground.

For Albanians, Albania and Kosovo, it's like a 53rd state of US.

You know, we are more pro,

but we have also an issue with the terrorists, with fanatics, definitely we have a problem.

So it's not like we are clean.

We're not

because it was Albanian from Kosovo who came out in Frankfurt, Germany a few years ago, if I don't make a mistake, six, seven years ago.

He executed two U.S.

Marines in Frankfurt, Germany.

He shot two or three.

Wow.

Yeah.

And

not to pass the in 1991, October 9, 1991, I tried to escape from the military, from the war zone on November 9, October 9, I'm sorry.

And I got caught in

entering the Belgrade airport and my father was in a bus and my brother-in-law, they was trying to help me to escape the war.

And I got arrested from military police.

And that was one of the

worst ever days I passed in my entire life.

I was tortured so badly when I had to use use the bathroom, I was

leaking blood.

That's how they tortured me, Yugoslav military.

How did they torture you?

They handcuffed me from the right

hand with the left, and they was hitting me those black sticks they used to use in the military.

I was bleeding badly.

They was letting me stay in that, and they was doing in the right foot just to have me to admit I'm leaving, I'm a deserter from the military.

And Sean, for me, was

or me to die or my family so I decided to sacrifice myself not to sacrifice my family so what I did that I took the pain they tortured me so badly and I never admit it I said I'm gonna die that day in military prison I'm not gonna admit it I'm leaving the military They torture me so badly after four days because in Yugoslavia, I was a communist have a little

skills because 1981, my father was a police for four years in Yugoslav police.

I'm a regular police.

So I learned how when they torture people, if you take a pain for 72 hours, they will let you go.

So if you don't take the pain and you give up, you say, yes, I did that, then,

of course, you're going to get tortured and you're going to get to prison.

So now it was two things, or me to die, or my family.

So I never admitted, and they took me from a military prison, they sent me right away in a war zone.

And you have a piece of paper, proof.

I send it to you guys, and you can see it clear.

In October 13, one of the officers, Captain Kablinovich Voyo, he's the one who helped me sign that

permit.

I'm going to be for

two days visiting my family.

But actually, I was not going to visit the family, family but he was helping me to leave the war because I was going to go in military court minimum 25 years just to enter the military court because I did that

shot against Chetniks so I was between 25 years or death sentence.

So I had no choice to do that and I successfully left Yugoslav army.

My family thought I was dead.

I went in my city Kosovo that night.

It was 4 a.m.

midnight in the morning, and I jumped from the wall.

All my family thought I was dead.

When I knocked the window,

complete family was waiting for my dead body to send it from the military.

When they saw me live in my city, everybody thought I was dead.

I got killed because I was arrested from the military police.

And then finally,

I received help from some family members and I left Yugoslavia in October 14, 1991.

I went in Switzerland.

Took me 10 days journey to enter Switzerland from Yugoslavia.

How did you get to Switzerland from Yugoslavia?

It was a long journey.

I'll be very honest,

not easy young guy to do like that.

It's, I guess, my nature, it's a little bit

like brave.

They helped me to give me a fake passport, not fake passport, fake

my picture, but different name.

I never traveled like like that but I guess God gave me some kind of skills, my nature.

That's how even I came out to CIA because I was capable.

You know, I'm a

street smart.

Even I was not who knows what kind of education in a school, but I was a natural street smart.

And I came out to use that passport.

My name was

Yakupra Musholi when I used that passport.

I did use list in my life maybe 10 or 13 different names by now.

So

I took that passport, I traveled from Macedonia to Bulgaria.

From Bulgaria, I flew to Italy, and in Italy, I get arrested.

They were not letting me go through from Bulgaria to Italy.

I had a little cash with me, and they keep me one night in a prison in Italy, and they sent me back to Bulgaria.

But now,

if I don't come out with my ideas to enter Switzerland, if I go in Yugoslavia, I was going to be in a military prison and life or death.

So when you have this kind of situation, then now you got to do whatever it takes to survive.

You know, it's not like you have experience, but experience you guys do is different because you have a strong support.

When you have a US military or US government, you feel more strong.

You know, it's a different feeling.

But me, I don't have that support.

I have my support, it's only me.

How I'm going to survive.

So I was returning from Italy to Bulgaria, and I called from my one of a couple of best friends and a family member to come and help me.

So they smuggled me from Bulgaria to Romania illegal.

And then from Romania, I did all my trips:

Romania, Hungaria, Germany, Germany, Belgium, Belgium, France, France, Switzerland.

I entered Switzerland in October 26, 1991.

And illegal?

All that was...

I mean, how did you fund that?

With money.

How much money does it take?

It took that time, I believe

it was not over 2,300 marks that time.

So basically like $2,300.

Because I was always using buses, local buses and stuff.

So to pay a little cheap and stuff, not to be expensive.

I never pay smuggler.

So, everything in my life I did, I never pay smuggler.

All I did myself, I used to use you did this all yourself, all myself, just using my connection, friends, you know, like that, and knowing me how I was brave and tough.

So, always I used to receive support.

Like, that's a lot of friends in a lot of countries.

Yes, yes, I do.

Even today,

Italy,

Germany, Belgium, France, Sweden, I mean France, Belgium, yes.

Holy shit.

So you knew people in every one of these countries?

Every one of the countries, yes.

Who were they?

Were they family members?

Albanians.

Albanians.

Everywhere Albanians.

It's all connection.

Even today, I'm speaking to you.

I can easily say it.

If you pick a globe and turn and put the finger, I'm sure I have a friend somewhere somehow.

It's kind of, I'm very friendly with people and I'm loyal to my friends.

It's not the job I did.

My friends are never bad guys.

I never have a friend bad guys.

When I said friend, bad guys, meaning hating United States.

All my friends are good with US,

good with a life.

Regardless of what they do with the personal life, when it's come to choose a US or terrorist, I don't have no friends who side with terrorists.

All I have friends who side 100% with US.

Wow.

And so what happens when you get to Switzerland?

I came out in Switzerland and

then I have

10 or 15 first cousins in Switzerland, including my older brother.

He was working at that time in Switzerland.

I stayed in Switzerland for a couple of months from October to December.

In December 23rd, I started working.

After one week in Switzerland, I started working construction in Switzerland.

Illegal, staying illegal.

And I get arrested two days before Christmas.

I'm sleeping in an apartment in Switzerland and my brother and my first cousins, 10 of them, they was in a club.

They was all young.

And they come in with two cars, I think 11 or 12 guys.

And the police obviously know only Albanians can be six, seven guys in one small car.

So they get arrested.

So they come now they when they arrest, they come close to the building I used to live.

But nobody knew it what floor I was living because one of my cousins

gave me a free apartment for a few months because I came from the military.

Everybody knew it what I been through in the Yugoslav military.

So they were kind of respecting me from my past where I did it.

So they kind of like treated me a little special than the rest of the friends and cousins.

I was like

a brave man to them and a special treatment.

So they are arresting me now.

And I was December 23rd, the police come 3 a.m.

in the apartment where I used to live in Geneva and

me and one of my cousins was sleeping.

The bell was ringing that night and

he said it's a bell.

I said okay wake up and just open the door.

And he said but I see people with a white shirt.

I said okay you can open the door.

They just want in 10, 15 cops.

the Swiss police with the guns and everything.

And they're telling us, don't move, don't move.

And they're in French.

And I was very little at that time in French.

Now I know because I used to live in

Geneva side and Quebec side.

So I'm good in five, six different languages.

And now they're asking me for a passport.

They turn the light on, and the passport was next to the TV.

And that night I see very bad dreams in a war.

And he said,

your name, and I said, it's Samoa Jacob Ramusholi in the French and he looked at oh shit now

what I'm gonna do you know and he the other one get arrested my brother get arrested and 10 other 15 10 or 12 first cousins all of them get arrested together they send us in a prison in Geneva I stayed for four five days in Geneva.

Now it's my plan to survive because everybody gonna get deported in Yugoslavia.

And nobody's from military only me from the all of us so what I'm gonna do I need to plan something myself they taking us from Geneva to Zurich and from Zurich

Tikia to Yugoslavia and now everybody walking in an airplane it was

two days after Christmas for between Christmas and New Year 1991 I'm planning my plan B using my skills everybody moving in a flight I'm the last

to enter the airplane.

And I'm telling the police, I'm saying to him, Monsieur, to me, don't the passport, which is, can you give me the passport?

He said, yes, I want to show it to you something.

And he gave me the passport with a boarding ticket.

I took the passport,

complete passport in front of him.

And I throw in a floor and I push the police.

And then they punch me.

That's where I was looking.

I was looking to get hit.

So to seek the asylum.

And I was in a floor.

Everybody walked in a flight.

They closed the flight right away, the door.

Now they jumped all the police in me.

What I did?

I said, Muasa deserter of military de Yugoslavia.

And they got stuck.

When you mentioned desertaire, meaning the deserter, it was from Yugoslav military because that time Laura Albanians was deserting the Yugoslav military.

And they believe it.

They sent me back to Geneva, they gave me a translator.

And I told the translator, look, I can bring my military IDs.

I'm from former military I came from war zone from Vukovar

and they bring me translator and they give me asylum in Switzerland temporarily that was December 1991 I stayed in this in Switzerland from 1991 to October 1994

in Switzerland October 1994 I came to United States How did you get to the United States?

It's a very good question and it's excellent answer.

In 1994, I have my uncle came here in 1960.

He emigrated from Albania.

He was a US citizen.

So I dreamed all the time.

I have my aunt and a lot of first cousins.

They came that time.

So I always dreamed United States, you know, because they used to come from the US to Kosovo to visit us.

And, you know, we see like always it's good, you know, to be in the United States.

You know, my first cousins, they always talk nice.

Some of them, they're born in the U.S.

that time.

We're talking 35 years ago because I have family members.

they came 50 years ago, 60 years ago.

And

I was dreaming to come here.

And Switzerland was not giving us asylum for good, like in the United States.

They were given us just temporary.

All the former military was receiving status only temporary in Switzerland.

So I asked my uncle, I said, Can you send me an invitation?

I want to come in the United States.

He said, I would send it to you, but it's not easy to get that visa.

I said, look, you send it to me, I'm going to get the visa.

And he sent me the visa

with his invitation that denied.

So what I did it, now I use again my skills.

I

got the passport from somebody, friend of mine, and I went in a US Embassy in Switzerland and got the visa myself.

I got the visa with a different name.

Not my name, Blurim Scoro.

Again, my skills to get the visa in the US Embassy.

And I went in Zurich and I got a visa.

They gave me a multiply one year visa for US.

I got the visa I came in JFK I flew in October 1994 and

I my uncle was waiting for me in JFK and it was funny because like I'm using my

skills not to trust still even my uncle but not to tell him what I'm coming with name so he's he's coming in information in JFK calling for blur him but my name was a different name Femi Husseni so totally different name now So he's avoiding the Nairaport.

I took cab from JFK.

I'm in Astoria Queen to his house.

And then I see my wife my uncle's wife.

She's American,

not Albanian, American born.

And

Patricia, she said, welcome.

She's asking me, I did letter a few words, where's your uncle?

I said, I didn't see my uncle.

Then he uh she paged her him uh at that time there was no cell phones and then my uncle responded, said,

where are you?

I said, I'm in your apartment.

How come he was not waiting?

I said, because I took a different passport, different name, you know?

And then he come and I start live in U.S.

1994.

Wow.

That's quite the journey.

Yes.

That's quite the journey.

Had you ever met your uncle before?

That was here in the U.S.?

Yes, I did.

You did?

Yes, I did, yes.

And how long had he been here before you arrived?

He came here in 1960.

Oh, 19.

When did you meet him?

He used to come always from here in my country.

Okay, he was.

He became U.S.

citizen, and he had no problem to come to visit us.

And you didn't trust him?

I didn't trust him because I was fearing if I get arrested, then I will put him in trouble.

Gotcha.

So I was trying to save him.

Gotcha.

You know how it's a loss.

If he knows I'm coming with a fake passport, different name, he can get trouble.

Holy shit.

That's quite the journey.

And how old were you when you got to the U.S., Father?

I was

23, 24.

All that

in three to four years.

Yes.

Yes.

After the military, three, four years.

So I started military at 19.

I finished 20.

And after 20, it's until 2019, 94.

So basically 23, 24.

At a young age with strong skills

let's take a quick break when we come back we'll pick up with your life in the u.s no problem

what if you could delay your next two mortgage payments that's right imagine putting those two payments in your pocket and finally getting a little breathing room it's possible if you call american financing today if you're feeling stretched by everyday expenses groceries, gas, bills piling up, you are not alone.

Most Americans are putting these expenses on credit cards and there doesn't seem to be a way out.

American Financing can show you how to use your home's equity to pay off that debt.

You need to call American Financing today to get ahead of the curve.

Their salary-based mortgage consultants are helping homeowners just like you restructure their loans and consolidate debt all without upfront fees.

And their customers are saving an average of $800 a month.

That's like a $10,000 a year raise.

It's fast, it's simple, and it could save your budget this summer.

Call now at 866-781-8900.

That's 866-781-8900.

Or you can go to Americanfinancing.net slash SRS.

NMLS 182-334.

NMLS consumer access.org.

Why are elite athletes and high performers using Armora colostrum?

Because Armora Colostrum is nature's first whole food with over 400 bioactive nutrients working at the cellular level to help build lean muscle, accelerate recovery, and to fuel performance, all without artificial stimulants or synthetic junk.

Armora can help strengthen immunity, help ignite metabolism, and so much more.

I've been using Armora ever since they sent me some to try.

I have more energy and faster recovery after long days and workouts.

Whether you're running a business, training hard, or just want an edge, Armora can help optimize your body for peak output.

I've worked out a special offer for my audience.

Receive 30% off your first subscription order.

Go to armora.com slash SRS or enter SRS to get 30% off.

your first subscription order.

That's ARMRA.com slash SRS.

These statements and products have not been evaluated by the fda these products are not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease or condition these statements and information are not a substitute for or alternative to seeking care from your health care providers

all right blairm we're back from the break you're coming to the u.s i know You worked a lot of odd jobs and then you got picked up and started working with the Albanian mafia.

But, and we'll get to that.

But so, arriving in the U.S., you're living at your uncle's house with his family.

What do you start doing?

After a few months, I stay,

if I don't make a mistake, two or three months until

I got my own apartment.

My own apartment I got somewhere in February 1995.

And I apply for asylum in 95.

I start in December 94 and then we send the papers to immigration 1995 and my asylum was right away approval and granted.

In May 1995 I got granted political asylum in US,

which is, it was my dream come true.

You know, I was always dreaming that and I become

like

very quick, very easy.

A lot of people was struggling and suffering not being able to become a U.S.

resident.

I did in

less than three, four months.

And after I got granted in 95, I started working.

I did a lot of different jobs in

restaurant, construction.

I was doorman.

I was in a cleaning company.

supporting my family.

I was always full-time worker, never no job.

And somewhere in 95,

96, it started breaking a war in Yugoslavia between my country, Kosovo and Yugoslavia.

Because those years, it was Slovenia and Croatia very got separated.

So it was left over

Kosovo, Montenegro, and Macedonia.

And it was not easy.

I'll be very honest, I was working hard.

And single person with one check, paying the bills and supporting family was not easy.

It was good you to make a living for yourself, but that time my family was not working in Yugoslavia.

So I had over my back, maybe 10-15 family members, no job in Kosovo.

So they were all dependent from me.

So all my family was waiting for me.

So no pension, no income, no nothing, just bluring to send it to them.

And I was young, hanging out with

becoming friends with a lot of Albanians.

And one day, I was 1996, I'm in a bar with all Albanians, you know, drinking party.

Again, I'm through the religion Muslim, but you know, enjoying life.

Nothing shrik, no

Wahhabi, no

Shrikh Islam.

And I'm telling my friends, look, I'm having a little hardship, you know, supporting my family and stuff, but I always used to live by myself.

No roommate, no, nobody, just my own apartment and enjoying the life.

And one day they approached me, they said, Look, we can help you, you know.

And I said, help, you know, how is the help possible?

They said, you know, we can say we can send drugs to Albania.

I said, drugs to Albania, no, I never did that, you know.

First time, you know, having this conversation, I was in a military service, war, and stuff like that, but not.

But

in a community, I was

highly respected in New York.

So by knowing my past, how I got arrested in the military, because it was not easy somebody to

survive that torture.

It's crazy, you know.

So now everybody knows that torture I did.

And you know how I served in the Croatian war, you know, was one of the most dangerous war in Balkan.

So kind of, not kinda, but even in a mafia community, my name started becoming among the

five six families

Gambino crime family Genovese Bonano Lucchese all this Italian mafia included Albanians and

I was respected we was hanging out in one of the Gambino crime club in Bensonos used to be well-known neighborhood of it mobsters in New York I used to live in that neighborhood you know living all in the middle of the mobster so all surrounded with mafia

and i kind of blend in good with good skills and now it's quick spread the rumors oh he came from the war you know uh knowing through the media he comes from the war zone they give you highly respect you know they treat you more than the rest of the people you know because

you know surviving in that croatian war it's kind of big things

i start the trip first trip if i don't make mistake somewhere end of 96, first drug dealing, sending drugs to Albania.

So hold on, what's going through your head when the Albanian mafia says we can help, we just need you to push drugs to Albania?

Those moments, for example, I didn't much ask because I know the nature of the mafia.

It's not to ask too much questions.

Because if you ask questions, then you're raising questions.

Maybe you work for government, you know, because my asylum was granted right away.

So a lot of them were still illegal.

Because that time in the U.S., nobody was asking you for documents, you know, you can live here, you know, like rest the illegal immigrants.

Nobody will ask you if you have any paper, you know.

So it was like

normal everybody else.

And since I started hanging out with them, I said not to ask questions.

All I need to follow the...

whatever they tell me to follow, you know, nothing, no questions.

And they said, they teach me how to do all these things.

And I said, okay, we start, you know, hanging out, being more close to them, more, you know.

But they had a good reputation.

I tell you this.

Albanians,

Italian mafia was very dangerous, but Italian mafia would not play with Albanian mafia because they were taking them too serious.

Albanians was killing them with no problems.

It was more kind of serious, Albanians than Italians.

They used to see them.

Then when I came out to the prison, then I found out Albanians was really more strong than Italians.

So the Italian mafia was

they were scared of the Albanians.

Absolutely, 100%.

Absolutely.

Even me, for example, when I was in that club, in the

look,

the time mafia, how they was functioning, you know, when it's a club, they all know each other.

Even it's not a social club, but they all know each other.

So now they know it is a guy who came from the war and it's me.

And I used to be known like Benny.

My nickname was Benny.

Everybody used to know me Benny.

So now, oh, Benny came from the war.

So when I walked in that club, they always respect me.

But I never worked with Italian Mafia.

I never had

any...

I had friends.

You know, we communicated, hang out, but never any business like being

in Italian

mob.

So it was friendly.

Friendly, but never been in mob.

Never crossed the business line.

No, never.

Just with Albanian.

Did you know these guys were in the mob before they approached you?

No, I never knew it until I start, I think, I believe second or third trip.

Then I start becoming friendly, seeing them gambling,

using drugs, drinking, partying, you know, all these things and controlling gambling.

You know, they used to control a lot of gambling stuff in New York City.

Albanians, they used to control a lot of the Italian mobs.

You know, it's not like Albanians was not like

a big group, but small group, very strong, very loyal to each other.

Interesting.

interesting interesting

what else what else was the mafia into in new york gambling

gambling drugs it was always drugs in them uh

prostitution always with them sex racketarian extortion all this whatever it's in a all the bad shit all illegal things they used to be under the control of mafia

And so let's talk about how you got into drug running.

What kind of drugs was it?

It was cocaine, sending cocaine from the United States.

First, I start in Albania for a few trips, and then from Albania, I start doing to Italy.

Then I start dealing with the mobsters of Albania, mobsters in Italy.

Okay, so you went...

So

let me just get this straight.

So they sent you to Albania.

Yeah, I flew from JFK to Italy,

used to change flight in Switzerland or Germany.

Always it was a transit, Germany, Frankfurt, or Italy, and then from Italy to Albania.

But mostly of the time, Germany and Albania, or Switzerland, Albania.

So, did you live there, or would you come back to New York?

I will come always back to New York.

I just send the drugs, bring the money.

Send the drugs, bring the money.

So, we used to take two pieces, one piece, one keys of cocaine, send it, or two.

Sometimes we used to be two, three of us, sent six, seven kilos, and come back with money did you have any fear about going back

back fear back to go where albania no i didn't have no fear

none no

how would you smuggle the drugs in the body we used to uh

we used to sew a little bit those uh like uh swimming suit tight and make a piece of pieces in a body that time was uh it's a very i can explain a little bit uh

checks in airport used to be very different very easy you couldn't smuggle you couldn't walk like i used to have a nice three pieces suit

nice clothes and drops inside and tie it up good inner body and you you pass it through before you do the trip same clothes we wear and we go do test one day before if it's going to alarm detector.

If it goes those closed alarm detector, then you change it.

You do something close, no bell, so even

ring the alarm so then next day i used to uh smuggle the drugs take the drugs from new york send it to albania or italy and then italy in a uh sell it in the street but i never dealt in the street live meaning selling in the streets always i used to deal with uh big guys like uh bosses public transport yeah just uh you know not the smuggling and selling in the street never dealt in a street cell so how would they how would the cocaine be packaged or the way it comes from colombia it would be in a yeah yeah in a piece break yes always break and you wouldn't break it up no never break because if you break then they don't want to buy it so always hard breaks i used to uh take uh it was time three killers in the body so one in the front and two sides a three pieces suit very nice suit

tie

like businessman with a suitcase with you pass it no problem wow How many times did you do this?

I did easy, I can say

minimum 10 times.

8 to 10 times.

Yes.

And what would the process be like when you got to Albania?

Oh, hanging out over there, three, four days, giving to the people.

We used to always have waiting people with money.

Just you stay three days to one week not to be suspicious.

When you come back in U.S., so not to raise suspicious, how you come right away next day.

So you stay, hang out, enjoy Albania, Albanian cost one week and come back, bring the money, no problem.

How much do you get smuggling a key of cocaine into Albania?

It was

kilo at that time was

$55,000 a kilo.

55,000 a kilo.

So you're smuggling about three kilos a trip?

Yes, 150.

It was a time, one shot, I bring it the highest amount of money, $560,000 cash.

Holy shit.

And that's all for you to keep?

With a group.

With the group?

Yeah, with a group.

Yeah.

Sharing.

We was always partners and sharing.

So

that was your money.

You didn't need to transport the money and give it to the Albanian mob back in New York.

That was $25,000.

It was three, four of us all the time.

Sharing.

How much would you be able to keep?

It was

time $80,000, $90,000 per kilo, $10.

Oh, per kilo was maybe per kilo, I can say

$8,000 to $9,000.

So you would get paid roughly a little under ten thousand dollars per kilo.

Yes, yes.

It's a lot bigger than working at a cleaner's.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Big different.

It's especially like

this is a trick.

You know, you think it's a big money, sweet money, but that's the worst thing.

Today,

I would freely say

I would never even dream, even advise anybody to do any work like that because that's short time.

What do you think would have happened if you would have said no, I don't want to smuggle drugs?

In the beginning, nothing.

Nothing.

Nothing, absolutely.

I need the money.

So they didn't care.

They have a man.

It's not that everybody was

brave

the way I used to

with the military experience, but there still was people to do and still continue doing.

They don't do it the way they did it, they change all those things, but they're still doing.

Drugs will never stop.

It's a business.

And so what would the meetup look like?

How would you know who you're meeting over there?

In Europe?

Yes.

Always through the friends, you know, always to the names, always to the mediator.

So I go, for example, to one of the family members from here.

in Albania, not to my family, to the

members of the group.

And then they waited for me in the airport.

They're taking me home.

I stay in the apartments in Albania.

And next day, they come in to take the drugs, giving the money, always drugs, money, exchanging, never long.

So always paid in a spot, in the hand.

Giving the drugs, taking the money.

Did your family know you were doing this?

No.

Your uncle?

No.

Nobody.

You don't think they picked up?

I never showed to them money.

My family knew over there.

It was easy to believe because I was telling them I'm doing two jobs.

So I was never telling my uncle how much I'm sending over there because then he would know what I'm doing.

So I try to keep very strict because I learned one thing.

In the crimes, if a person knows, he can be charged with the crime.

So I learned that part.

to keep the secrets.

But after like few years,

my uncle found out I did it.

And then then we're going to come to the point.

It's a funny part how my wife caught me doing the drug dealing, found out it's very, I didn't even believe.

Let's go.

I'm in a phone using different language,

Serbian, talking to somebody in a Serbian, because my wife is born and raised in the US.

Then I was never sure she understands Serbian.

I never thought she was five or six years old.

They left left US to live in the

valet called Prussia, which is in the Serbian side.

Her parents took her for a couple of years to live there when she was young.

And she went in Serbian school.

I never thought my wife she was no Serbian.

So I'm talking in the phone home, having a nice conversation.

I got married.

I hung up the phone.

My wife, she thinks I'm working restaurant, and I took her to work with me.

And then she came out, she said, you're a drug dealer.

I said, how do you know?

That's what she said.

How do you know?

Yeah.

I said, baby, she's telling me, you just had a conversation about drugs.

You're talking in Serbian.

And then she told me whatever I said.

I said, geez, what happened with me now?

That's how I caught up

my wife to know.

What was the conversation?

I was, uh, we were making a meeting how we're going to take the drugs, but I was home.

So, for my wife not to know, I told them, Look,

we're gonna talk in this language because my wife, she doesn't know.

She's American-born, you know.

I never thought American can learn Slavic, you know.

It was like

common sense.

How did she respond to that?

Oh, she didn't like that.

She didn't like that, she freaked out.

If my family knows I marry a drug dealer,

they will be ate me.

Her family, it's it's interesting because before i got married we met each other we dated we met each other it's a it's a

in a document it's like some part is like a love story in uh i met her in uh 1996 97 i'm sorry in albanian party and that time i was you know my name was the best in albanian community I was, everybody used to know it's Albanian mob, Albanian gangster,

very good reputation, driving Mercedes,

few years in the United States, you know, not

a lot of immigrants can do that, bulletproof car, you know, all these things.

I start dating her for a few months and I'm picking the phone, calling her parents, you know, to get engaged.

And the first thing her father asked me, what do you do for a living?

I said, I work in restaurant.

How long you been here?

I said, I've been here three, four years.

He said, I cannot give you my daughter.

You know, you just want to marry her because you want to become U.S.

citizen.

But I was very granted asylum.

You know, I didn't need to get married with my wife to become U.S.

citizen.

I said, look, sir, I don't need to get married.

I have my papers.

I'm traveling to my country.

I don't have no problem with the papers.

No, he said.

And he hang up the phone.

I said, okay, if you hang up the phone, then

we start.

We

engaged.

And she took a vacation with their parents.

We plan everything.

And

in June 96,'7,

they're going back to Kosovo and they are in vacation.

And after a couple of weeks, I'm going in vacation too.

But I decide with my wife to get married.

And I told her in my family, I'm going to come in Kosovo and make a wedding party and get married.

And I'm going, the parents in Kosovo don't want to give it to her to get married.

They told her, no.

And I said, look.

Are you going to get married?

She tells her parents in front of me, you know what?

I love my husband,

my my boyfriend, we was engaged, and I'm going to go with him.

She had

choice.

It was 20 years old, 19,

between 19 and 20.

So she left the family and come and got married with me in Kosovo.

And then we come in U.S.

in

97.

98, my first daughter was born, April 98, and the second daughter was born in September

1999.

But those years, then, I started drug dealing, working always.

I always used to have a job.

So to be good to the government side, paying taxes and everything, but doing drug dealing.

And your wife,

she found out before you got married or after.

She found out after we got married.

And you kept doing it?

I kept doing that, yes.

Then money was sweet.

Money was sweet.

And it's...

Did she come to terms with it?

Then I used to take her a couple of times, a few times, I used to take her with me.

When I used to go, then I started changing, working myself,

working with Italy only, not no more with Albania.

Now I build a

relation friendship with Italians and I used to work myself in Italy.

Then I used to take her with me just to look good in air reports, like a couple traveling, just you know, like the customs, not to be

suspicious in what we're doing so I used to take her and just fly to from JFK to Italy always using transit even going to Italy I used to always use Germany interesting so

what did the Albanian mafia think when you started working for the Italian

They never thought I was working for Italian.

I was working for myself, but I have a good relation, friendship with mobsters.

So nothing like I'm under them.

I'm also in my own, but not under mafia.

So there was no.

No, not suspicious anything.

I never always keep my loyalty to Albanian mobsters.

How did the conversation start with the Italians?

I learned language.

The conversation started reputation building up.

I built my name from Bessoners, Brooklyn, New York.

So when you build in New York, you're hanging out with mobsters,

you know, always become friends, drinking together, every night in a bars, and that's how, you know, build a friendship with them.

How did they approach you?

How they see how they're respecting

my people, how they was respecting me.

They used to know I came from the military.

They used to know I came from the war zone.

We used to have a conversation.

When we were in a club, we always talk, you know, I was there, you know, we did this, we did that.

You know, then now you become strong, you know, because

I barely saw anybody being in a

past like me.

You know, I was,

I didn't see anybody coming from the war like the way I came.

So it was like only me in the group beat.

Of course, there was guys in a street life way they did crazy things,

beating, breaking legs, breaking arms.

There was a guys like that.

But to them, was still they can do that, But if a Benny get

crazy, he can shoot us.

So Benny is respected.

It's among ourselves.

We can play and joke, but still, we gotta respect him for his past.

So you saw him breaking people's legs and it's not eyewitnesses, but I knew it when they came from the situation.

I knew it.

They broke somebody's legs, or you know, I heard they shot somebody in a trunk.

They told me we shot somebody and left him in a car, in a trunk.

They would just tell you this.

Yeah, there's no problem.

And I know who was the person who got shot.

Give me one example.

It's Albanian.

It's considered like a traitor to them.

And

I can

think his name because it's a little long time.

And they told me we shot so-and-so, and then I found out he got shot and they left him in his car in a trunk.

And then I know people got beat up, breaking legs, breaking jars, and stabbing knife and stuff like that.

I used to know,

I went far.

I used to know son-in-law of the John Garrett, Carmai.

We were in the same room in a prison.

I met John Jr.

from Gambino crime family.

I met

boss of Colombo family.

I met

Genovese boss with one of them, Anthony Spiro, who passed away in prison.

He was my cell partner.

He was head of the Genovese.

Anthony Spiro was life sentenced.

He was my cell partner.

So I spent time with

co-founder of the Bloods in New York, Pistol Pete.

And his son is in Florence, Colorado.

I was very close with him.

He was my cell partner three years.

We went alone.

Excellent.

Wow, did you know who these guys were at the time?

Not at the time, no, no, in the beginning, some of the mobsters I used to know, like from the Gambino, for example, one of the two brothers, Saul and Tommy.

I knew there was a wise guy, they were, you know,

very strong in a rank in a Gambino crime family.

How did you eventually get picked up?

It's again, it's my past.

In prison, in a prison,

I tell you, this is is the best part of the story of the life.

That trip, Sean,

I did not do that trip.

I was set up.

I was not involved in that trip.

When I get arrested,

it's a mistake of the U.S.

government.

When I say the mistake of U.S.

government, how informers was using government.

So informer, one of the informers, there was two of them,

he came out from the prison

and

few,

what he did, I started lending him money.

We used to do lawn shark in a little bit.

And he sent somebody in Pakistan for drugs.

He's dad today, he's deceased, in a prison.

They said he got killed or something, but it's not my problem.

I don't care.

He got what he deserved.

And

this guy who set me up,

he said, one day, we're coming from the Bronx to to Queens he said we used to call each other son he said be careful maybe government one day arrest you they can tell you I'm informer but I'm not

Sean when you don't have no

when you're not in a system federal prison look you have a very strong good experience I see you part of the life story you've been in a seals you've been in an intelligence agency and it's excellent experience you have

but it's a different my experience you can know the laws a little bit I don't know the laws only time you learn the laws today speaking with you I'm like a paralegal I know the law very well I can tell you about the US laws you will never believe it

so I'm coming informer telling me hey be careful if they arrest you

they can tell you you know I'm working for the FBI.

I don't believe.

One of my first cousins told me one day, look, cousin, don't trust Nick because Nick is

FBI informer.

I said, come on, Nick cannot be an informer because he knows me.

I come from the war.

I will shoot him.

You know, he's fearing me.

But I learned all these two years when I was friend with that informer, when he talked to his family, he always mentioned my name because his phone was tapped.

So if something happened, he got killed.

So they know his family who he was with.

So every time he's with me, he talked to his wife or somebody of family and tell him, oh, I'm with Benny.

Benny, Benny, Benny, Benny.

And then one day he got me paranoia.

And I told him, son, how come you always mention my name in a phone?

Oh, no, no, just because I love you.

Okay.

One day we play in pool and somebody called him from Greek.

He was deported.

He was arrested and deported.

He stay

in a federal prison.

But this guy went in a bathroom.

So the phone ringing, ringing, and

Cleonthi, the guy who got killed was Vito, Albanian guy, in a trunk.

From the past story, we were talking, he came in my

head.

His name is Vito, Albanian name.

So he got killed from one of the Albanian mobsters.

He was shot in the head in a trunk.

So now, Cleonth, it's the guy, Albanian, who called him from Greece.

This guy is in a bathroom, the informer, but he's my friend, my ex-friend.

And I answered the phone, his phone.

And this guy cursing me, saying, Hey, you, motherfucker, why are you not answering the phone?

You effing snitch, this, that.

I said, yo, who are you talking to?

You know, I'm not Nick, I'm Benny.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Where is Nick?

He's not answering my phone.

I said, he's in the bathroom.

He said, you know, he's an informer.

I said, really?

She had a lot of signs as this guy was informed.

But Sean, it was too late for me.

This is it coming in 1991.

It's very, I'm a

government is very investigating me.

They're watching me.

So I'm very followed from the US government, from the FBI and DA.

So it was no more,

only choice was me to stop, but they still was building case against me.

So what he did,

he asked me to do a favor to send him $21,000 in Pakistan.

I did wire from the Western Union.

I make that mistake in in my name.

But I was young, and it's not like

I thought I used always myself to say, hey, he's going to be scared to snitch me because he knows my past.

But he didn't.

He snitched me.

And

I don't want to use that.

He was informal.

You know, we're trying to be more polite in the language so the viewers not to think, no, I'm going rough in the people.

And I sent $21,000 to somebody who was in Pakistan.

And he was connected to one of the most wanted.

You have a picture with Bin Laden.

So he was a supporter of Bin Laden.

I saw a picture with him and Bin Laden after I went to Pakistan.

So now I wired $21,000 and this guy comes back in

somewhere in November 1999.

And he gets arrested in New York.

But he doesn't tell nobody.

He gets arrested in six or seven Albanian group of the mafia.

Everybody goes in jail, only this one get

bailed.

So

now everybody rumors how come this guy get bailed.

Long story short, he doesn't call me.

He doesn't

come to see me.

He owns me $21,000.

So informer Nick,

he tells me, you have to go yourself in Pakistan, me to pay you the money.

But he was setting me up.

Now,

I'm not, I'm 100% clean i'm according to the u.s laws and i'm witnessing today in this uh interview i was 100 clean i was never dealing with heroin never dealing with afghanistan or pakistan all i was dealing with cocaine with italy never with terrorist so i was always used to think if i give them money so that's money is going to support terrorists so i was keeping myself because u.s was to me my dream place

so regardless what i do with italy and the gangs and mafia,

long as I keep myself clean with terror group.

So I don't mind dealing with mafia.

I mind dealing with terror group.

So this guy sent me to Pakistan.

There are a lot of choices out there when it comes to cell phone service and it feels like more are popping up all the time.

But Patriot Mobile isn't just another option.

They're different.

a company built by people who actually share your values and who are committed to doing things the right way.

They're also ahead of the curve when it comes to tech.

Patriot Mobile is one of the only carriers with access to all three major U.S.

networks, which means reliable nationwide coverage.

You can even have multiple numbers on different networks all on one phone.

A true game changer.

They offer unlimited data, mobile hotspots, international roaming, internet backup, and more.

Everything you'd expect from a top-tier carrier.

And switching couldn't be easier.

Activate in minutes from home, keep your number, keep your phone, or upgrade if you want to.

Go to patriotmobile.com slash SRS or call 972 Patriot.

And don't forget to use promo code SRS for a free month of service.

That's patriotmobile.com slash SRS or call 972 Patriot.

I'm taking a first trip in

February of 2000 in Pakistan.

That's my first trip in my life in Pakistan.

I'm going over there,

not knowing nothing, country never visited in my life, landing over there, I took my wife with me.

Watches strictly over there, bad, but I never took my wife when I was meeting.

And now, this informer has a good, strong relation, friendship with one of the Pakistani wanted, he's still wanted today.

He's in the still ABI wanted list.

And I'm going, his name, I can say it, it's not, I don't mind to say it his name.

His real name is Mir Kazim Shah.

He lives in a tribal area in

Peshar, Mardan.

It's a city Peshar near the Afghanistan border.

So he's still wanted.

From early 90s, he's still in the FBI.

He's indicted twice in

Eastern District Court.

First trip, landing in Karachi, Pakistan.

From Karachi, Pakistan, I'm going to Islamabad, Pakistan.

In Islamabad, I'm waiting for this guy.

But this guy, he knew what he's wanted.

he was very smart,

and he doesn't come in my time.

He called in hotel, and hotel tells me you have a phone call from guest.

And he said, It's you.

I said, Yeah, it's me.

I'm gonna come and see.

I waited one week, ten days.

He doesn't wanna come and see me.

And I'm calling the informer.

I said, that time he was my friend.

I said, He said, This is how it works.

You gotta wait only in his time.

Then one time he shows up night time.

He doesn't want to get caught up in the cameras and stuff he walks in he's known Amir

aka Amir but his real name Mir Kazim Shah he said hi how are you good English speaking you know at that time he was easy I was maybe 26 27 27 he was for sure 40 45

Said look you want to do this I said yeah I bring some money I give him a if I don't make mistake another $20,000 cash to him.

So for the trip.

So he prepared in five kilos of heroin to bring it back.

So I took, after one week, five kilos of heroin.

How he did it, Sean, it's a good part.

When we were sitting, I started hanging out a few times.

I went to visit him.

He took me to Afghanistan to see how they grow in the opinion.

They have maybe at least five, six thousand security.

Those Afghanistan with AKs and stuff like that.

but I was clean shave it's different than working for CIA so I was like clean Western guy no beard no nothing so it's a little big different than when I work for the CIA

he took me over there he said look we're gonna plan this trip but I want to tell you one thing I know I'm wanted in the US government he told me straight up the first time when I went in his house he told me I'm wanted from the US government if I want to be a bad guy, I can send a bomb the way I'm going to send you drugs.

And you can leave it in JFK and blow the JFK.

That's what he told me.

In the first trip in 2000, we're talking, when there was not too much

al-Qaeda scan, you know the al-Qaeda because you have experience, but not the rest of the world, you know.

So at age 27, I meet him first time in somebody who hates the US, and then I see picture with not just him, with Bin Laden in the crew, black and white picture, and he's in one of the corner, Bin Laden in the middle.

He was a former Mujahideen.

He was shot in the Afghan war.

So he fought

with Mujahideen's Russian war.

So it's a former Mujahideen against Soviets.

So it's not young.

And we talk in nice conversation.

He's taking me to Afghanistan, coming back, and I stay, I think,

around three weeks.

Where did you go to Afghanistan?

Do you know?

Near the tribal area we passed through the uh mardan we went to uh from baluchistan side

and uh we went i went uh as far as uh kandahar we went to kandahar i was in kandahar i was uh

one time i think uh we visited uh for a few hours mazar sharif

so we spent those tribal areas where it's always controlled from

that time was complete control from taliban it's not uh taliban after collapse so time when I was there was control of the Taliban.

And

nice, I came and bring the drugs.

It was excellent.

What was the point of you going to Afghanistan?

He just wanted to show you the fields and

he wants to bring me in.

He wants me to

kind of recruit me in,

in their view.

My interest was just to take that drugs and bring it and get my money.

My interest was nothing

be al-Qaeda not supporting terrorists my interest was to bring the drugs so I can get my money and finish this so I bring the drugs

in a they bring the drugs they pass the customs in Pakistan they bring it in a bathroom after you do that all the checkpoints because in Pakistan they patch you down When you enter the airport, they patch you down.

But the police of Pakistani police, this guy has all connection, police brings the drugs in a bathroom so one day before I meet the police outside and I know that police gonna bring the drugs so he brings West

with a wearing himself so now when you pass the customs Pakistani customs they open the luggage and they put the tech that luggage is searched so they don't have to go through and they patch you down you go the alarm detector and everything and you clean you pass the security before you board, it's a bathrooms.

So he goes, the police goes first, he comes and watches me, and I follow him.

So he goes in one bathroom, he takes his west in the bathroom, he comes out, I enter the bathroom, I wear the west in the bathroom.

So I'm a clear in the customs.

Now, five kilos of heroin, west, it's in my body.

So now I'm just waiting to board.

When you board an airplane, they check the ticket.

It's a,

it was screened

back at the carry-on, and they know they don't have to touch it because it went to checkpoint.

But drugs is in my body.

So I'm coming now from Karachi to Shannon, Airland, and then from Shannon to JFK.

When I come to JFK,

I passed one time.

But first trip, I came from Karachi to Canada, Toronto.

I never came back.

What I did,

Sean,

we planned the trip for me to avoid

suspicious because when you come in customs here, they ask you where you're coming from.

And if you tell them you're coming from Pakistan, they will right away suspicious.

But when you tell them you're coming from Canada, it's no problem, you know.

But in Canada, when I land, I come.

Look, Sean, it's I want to just

to understand something very clear.

You plan this kind of

life

in an intelligent way, you to avoid detection.

We planned this before how

the government function, what can avoid tracing you.

So, when you come in from Pakistan to Canada, and in Canadian customs, I said, I couldn't get a straight flight for a JFK, I have one day to stay in Canada.

So, you just, you know,

one word, you're lying to them, protecting yourself, because canadians they think okay you're gonna go back to uh new york tomorrow so they don't need to ask you if you're bringing anything you know you clean just transit one day you understand so then when you come in in toronto the next day when the customs in uh

you come straight because in that time in canada you pass the customs only canada when you come in la guardia you go straight in the street they don't search you they don't ask no questions you pass in the customs in

Canada.

So I'm clear I bring the drugs five kilo.

That's the first trip.

We want to make it.

How many passports did you have?

All my life I did maybe 12 or 13.

12 or 13 passports.

Yes.

Where would you get the passports?

It's very easy, everywhere.

Like four or five times I had the passports from CIA four times list.

Not those ones.

Yes, just listen.

Mine is maybe at least six, seven times.

Buying from the people.

They would just make them for you.

No problem.

Any passports, you name it, I couldn't get it.

You would fly to Canada from Pakistan on a different passport than you would.

And come with my passport, original travel document, U.S.

travel document.

I used to use my name so I can be clear.

I will not show the passport.

I had a visa for Pakistan because you know, to go in Pakistan, you have to have a visa, regardless if you are a citizen or anybody.

Everybody who traveled to Pakistan, you have to have a Pakistani visa.

You have the visas in passport.

So I used to use two different passports all the time

so would you go from the US to Canada to Pakistan yes okay so it just looked like you were in can and then you would keep that passport separate so it just looked like you were in and out of using two different passports

okay

okay and so how did you get how did you get arrested how did they catch you i'm i'm coming in uh may 2000 coming uh getting arrest

when i went in may 2000 i'm gonna make a short this because we have a lot of story, and

he's setting me up.

Now it's a clear, I'm not dealing, I'm going second trip because those first drugs I bring, he said it's no good, informer telling me.

But informer saying to the FBI and DEA, I'm dealing with Ben, different Ben, not with Nick.

All the drugs he's telling the government, I'm not dealing with informer, I'm dealing with totally different source.

But he's a double agent.

He's profiting himself, he's using DEA and FBI, He's giving information.

But he's never telling the DA and FBI, he's dealing with drugs.

I'm dealing with somebody.

So he's only informer.

So he's profiting from himself in a drug dealing, and he's profiting from the government paycheck.

It's a double agent.

So then

he's telling me,

you have to go back, bring another five killings.

I said, come on, man.

I go.

I had a bad accident over there in Pakistan with with a horse.

I'm not bringing drugs.

Two different people bringing drugs from Pakistan to Germany.

In Germany, somebody else is supposed to come.

What informer does, him and his wife

sets up my sister-in-law and my wife.

So my sister-in-law to come and bring the drugs because his wife used to know my sister-in-law.

But I'm with those two different carriers in Pakistan.

So we bring in the drugs.

Then in Germany, I see

my sister-in-law and my wife was in Germany.

And I got mad.

But there was a last-minute change plan.

So he planned.

So my sister-in-law get arrested and I take the blame.

So now we come in from Germany to JFK.

They're letting me go through.

Informal give information about my sister-in-law.

So now I pass the customs, then I see my sister-in-law get stopped and my wife.

And that time, I was on my door with them.

Baby, this is one of the worst mistakes in my life.

I never forgive myself.

This is the worst part.

And then I walked in.

I walked in

and I said to the customs, I'm with them.

I said to myself, I have no choice.

But the agents, the custom agents played me very dirty in my life.

Very unfair.

In the United States, you have to have a Miranda rights.

The agent, custom agent,

I remember his name to the day I die, Jamal,

he left the door cracked a little bit.

And my baby, my daughter, a year and a half, was walking around.

And he's in the office with me, me and him.

He said, sir,

you have two choices.

Are you to take this blame or us to take your daughter to put in a shelter to somebody else?

And I didn't know my rights.

And I said to myself, you know what?

It was a

very heart-feeling moment.

I said, okay,

let my daughter go home.

I take full responsibility.

I take all the blame.

I didn't do that trip.

I said,

I'm a man, I will take the blame.

And then let my daughter go home

and let my wife and my sister-in-law.

I took that.

But I was happy if I was given right, no.

But I was happy I saw my child going home because I make a mistake.

Every father will do that for the child.

And I get arrested, put it in a prison,

sending me to Metropolit Detention center.

This is not first time in a prison, but

regretting my mistakes.

How far can let that.

You know, I was meant to die, I was meant to be killed, I was meant to be shot, but you know, not to take a blame for your child.

Every normal human being will do that.

And this is the part when I get arrested and I say to myself, you know what?

It's okay.

I'm going to pay this.

I did that.

But we

were a year and a half.

Only a year and a half.

She just was walking.

The oldest one.

Before, in the drug dealing time,

I was involved with KLA.

We missed one of the good part.

In 98, 99, I went from here to fight, to help my people in Kosovo war.

One U.S.

bombing was in 78 days Yugoslavia.

I was inside

fighting for my people.

I was also another war joined Kosovo Liberation Army.

I volunteered from the US, from New York City.

I didn't stay long, four months until the war finished.

And then when I came from the war, I was very like

extremely good reputation.

Like,

they used to look me like I'm a killer.

They used to look me like I'm

two different wars men.

You know, one in Croatian, one in Kosovo Liberation.

I'm very brave human.

So now, getting arrested and not taking a blame,

you know, it's...

I get charged with conspiracy to import one kilogram.

Are you a killer the second time?

I was a warrior.

What did you do?

In a war.

Fighting against Serbs.

With the bottom of my heart.

With

not even thinking second thought.

If I have to kill, I will kill.

Did you kill?

It was shoot.

It was shot.

You never go to see victims.

You always distance.

But you always shoot it.

It's not.

It's a war.

So if

I have the gun with me, I'm in a war zone.

I'm defending my country, defending my people proudly.

Proudly.

If I have to do with two countries, I will fight even today.

I will have no problem to fight for the U.S., I have no problem to fight for my country.

If they call me today, I'm volunteering anywhere, any zone.

I have no problem.

I get arrested.

I've been put now in a prison among the middle of terrorists.

All kinds of groups.

You name it.

Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al-Qaeda,

Al-Aqsha Taiba.

I want to share one of the pictures because it's very good pictures.

I have one of the pictures in a prison, maybe

one, two, four or five different members of

terror groups with me in prison.

I become very quick mu'azin in a prison.

You become what?

Mu'azin.

The leader of Muslims.

Calling for prayer

and become prisons are run from the Muslims.

Every federal prison runs from the Muslims.

So I become a strong

leader in the Muslim community.

I start dealing with the FBI and DEA,

cooperating, taking my blame.

When I took my blame, I was promised to be released in a short period of time.

I got

two years hold pre-trial prison.

So in 9-11,

I got caught up being in a cell

with one of them of four or five guys that bring the bombing from

Canada to LA, 2,000 million bombing.

One of the terrorists was my cell partner.

I can mention the name, it's not a problem.

It's

public information.

It's, you know, Mukhtar Haururi, Algerian born with

Canadian and Algerian passport, Rassam and Meskini.

There was three or four of them, the smuggling bomb from Canada to Los Angeles that time in 2000.

So one of them was my cell partner.

And dealing with FBI and DEA, but you know, now 9-11 become.

So September 11, I'm in a cell with one of the terrorists.

But he was not convicted yet.

He was only arrested.

So it's a 2000 and 2001.

So he got arrested in Los Angeles bombing and bringing a prison.

So he become a cell partner with me.

First flight hit the Twin Tower.

I'm in the seventh floor.

My room, cell, it's toward the Freedom Tower.

You can see both buildings.

Hudson River, Manhattan, and Brooklyn.

I'm in Brooklyn jail.

So this now, the first flight hit, it's a morning,

8.45, if I don't make a mistake, Tuesday.

And this guy called me

in a prison I used to be known Amir.

Same the way it's nickname of the wanted guy, Amir Kazim Shah Amir.

I choose that name because Amir, it's kind of in Arabic, it's a leader.

So Amir al-Mumineen.

So leader of believers.

So now I'm in a prison known, prison name, Amir.

He jumps on the

bogging band and happy.

God is a great Allah.

Allah,

this is from my leader.

He's happy now.

And I'm looking, I'm a former KLA member.

I'm a very patriotic to United States.

I was 78 days bombing US, Yugoslavia.

Now I'm thinking, if I kill this guy in a prison or not.

It's my mixed feeling.

How can be this human happy when I'm diehard?

I'm a Muslim, but I'm also diehard patriotic.

I love the country, US.

So what I do?

And I tell him, Habibi, come on.

He said, this is what my leader, and he's continued dancing.

We watched in the first plane hit.

Now it's coming the second flight.

Hit in the second tower.

I witnessed that.

Because when I give some interview, I see the questions, all this conspiracy.

Look, it's BS.

I don't care how people think.

I saw with my own eyes the second flight.

I don't care what people think.

I care what I see.

You can't tell me, oh no, it's not true.

It's true.

I saw the flight.

What's behind?

It's not my problem.

What's behind?

But I know terror attack was.

I saw the second flight.

So now, I'm staying with him in a cell.

Next day, he coming from FBI, NCIA counter-terrorism unit.

Complete institution is shut down.

I'm watching people jumping from the tower.

Both towers collapse.

I'm seeing all day.

It's

not the way you see in the movie.

I'm witnessing with my own eyes.

Regardless if I'm in prison, but I'm still my heart now.

Now what I'm gonna do, how I can pay back.

They start bringing a lot of terrorists.

The first day in my life I met the counterterrorism unit from FBI and CIA.

They came to speak to me.

It was September 12th,

2001.

They came to speak to you September 12th and the very next day.

So

next day.

So this is how I started myself to pay back to the US.

I said you know what?

If I get in prison killed by helping government I don't care because I know I'm doing good.

I don't care how they're gonna say oh somebody was killed because it was informal.

No, no.

Me, I was looking my side.

My side was I want to be clean to the Americans.

I don't care how terrorists and Muslims look me.

My point was the American side.

They came and sit down with me first day.

This is how my journey started with the CIA.

From that first day, and then the first name of the CIA ever spoke, Sean Linz.

After the second day meeting with the FBI,

phone rings.

I'm walking, they opened the common area in the seventh floor, I'm walking with one of the Taliban members

in a prison and they're calling my number 5482-0053 and I'm looking to corrections officer over there, quiet in a prison, but the still debris and burning of the twin towers is there because my cell I was in J71.

J71 is pointed straight my window to the Twin Tower.

Only Hudson River separates.

It's very close view.

You can see it.

And I'm going to the correction officer.

He's saying

somebody wants to talk to you.

I said, okay.

I go in the council's office like a legal phone call.

He said, your attorney, because you have right to talk to the attorney.

And this is how I introduce, my name is Sean Linz.

I'm calling you from a CIA.

This is the clear conversation.

We need your help.

Are you willing to help us?

I said, anything I can do.

from today i will do it right off the bat he revealed no question nothing regardless how I felt that moment when my child was with me, I forgot everything.

I said, you know what?

I am going to help the U.S.

intelligence agency.

No problem.

And I tell them,

anytime from today, you can count on me.

And I start dealing, they start bringing a lot of terrorists from the streets.

They're picking up all kinds of people.

from the street bringing in prison.

You know, it was that time CIA was not prepared.

The US agency was not prepared for the 9-11.

Regardless how much they say, look, Sean, I read in a prison, I will mention the name, maybe you even met the guy.

The best ever two books I read

was Imperial and Animus.

Two of this book, he was

Mike Scheuer.

He was in Bin Laden's unit 25 years, investigating Bin Laden for 25 years, CIA agent.

I read both of his books, the best books in a prison.

I read all kinds of books.

I read the book of George Tennant.

And that's the time when I start.

It was George Tennant, chief of the CIA, and the chief of operation was James Pavitt,

running the agency.

Head of the CIA was George Tennant.

James Pavitt was

running the field

agency.

So this is what my first step with the CIA in September 12, 2001.

What did he tell you after

he revealed that he was CIA, that he wanted you to work with him?

What did he say?

He said, we need your help.

I know you're Albanian.

I know you've been through with federal prison, with prosecutors.

We're not like them.

We're different than them.

When we say things, we do it.

And now we're going to bring a lot of people.

We're going to need to find out who's who.

Because, Sean, in a prison, when you're in the beginning, you speak right away because you need help.

And you like you in the middle of ocean and you're drowning and you see shark and you think shark gonna help you because you're drowning.

So, in a prison, when you get arrested, you don't know the

laws, you trust people and you tell them what's going on.

So, that's how I got to come out to the Lara Al-Qaeda members, lot of people that was

supporting al-Qaeda, giving the money.

You know, the most dangerous was with the terror group.

Financial is number one.

It's not hard to find the foot soldiers how much it's hard to find finance.

So for the intelligence agency was important to find out who's financing them, then to find out who's a foot soldier of al-Qaeda.

So food soldier is not hard.

They brainwash 18, 19 years old, 20 years old, 21, 22.

Some people that have a bad past in their life, that's how they brainwash them.

But finance, they get from higher level Muslims, like business people who wants to donate charity, so they want to know that.

I started dealing with the CIA.

For a year and a half, I was in contact always with agent Sean Lentz.

So I hope when he sees

this

interview, he will remember me.

I dealt with him from September 2012 to 2022 until I was

transferred, designated to

Pennsylvania federal prison.

So roughly two years I dealt with the CIA in that time.

What was in it for you?

Did they pay you?

No,

they was promising me they're going to

cut my sentence and recruit me to work agent in a street after.

What kind of stuff were you revealing to them while inside prison?

I

revealed a lot of the guys, for example, there was al-Qaeda supporters,

al-Qaeda financer.

I met with a guy who met Bin Laden after 9-11.

So I met with a group of Lakawana Six.

They met with Bin Laden after 9-11.

So I was with them.

I was with Yemeni group.

I was with

one of the Hezbollah members who was kidnapped from the in the Adriatic coast early 80s.

I don't know if you remember when the TW

pilot was shot in hijacking.

Hezbollah member, he was with me.

So it was a missing body of the Israeli soldier and they were trying to get the information.

But it was something very interesting, Sean.

CIA

was interesting to get information from informers.

Even people admitted in things.

I'm going to give you a little little small detail in a short point.

You know, in Islam, for example, if you get arrested, you can even say you're not no more Muslim.

They train them, and

that's only one thing I don't like in religion.

If you get arrested, you give up all the information, and then you say to the agency, okay, I can be with you, you know, and then you lie.

Then you go in the street, you become again terrorist group, you know, terror members.

You know, you never get burned with a terrorist group.

Even today, I give you an example myself.

We're going to come to the points how I was offered from ISIS to become leader of ISIS, not a foot soldier, a leader of ISIS.

Even being somebody suspicious if I was a CIA spy, they called me, I spoke with very high-ranking ISIS leader.

Wow, we'll get to that.

We'll get to that.

It's more to the story.

Yeah, there's a lot more to the story.

And so when they would bring these guys into prison, how would you know who to target?

I was a

muazin.

They come in, we talking, we eating, we praying together, we're reading Quran together.

So now I'm picking.

They would tell me, for example, I would say it one name now, just his last name, Saria.

He was

a Hamas leader member.

So he told me, I'm not Al-Qaeda member, brother, I'm a Hamas member.

So he never admitted to the government anything, but he was telling me because we want to know who's a member of al-Qaeda in a group, in a prison, who's a member of Hamas or his Bullah, who's a Shiite, who's a who followed Salafi Saleheen, who's the first three generation of Prophet Muhammad, peace be in him.

So I found out, I tried to find all this information through communication with them.

And that's how I was sharing the information with CIA.

What other kind of information were they interested in?

So they would bring everybody in, and then you would figure out which terrorist group they were associated with.

If it's a threat or if it's innocent.

If he did something or not.

If somebody was really innocent, I would say, look, my opinion, this guy has nothing to do.

He was just pick up like a wrong time, wrong place.

He has nothing to do with this.

And I saw people got released.

Not just because of my opinion, but you know, at least they want to, you know, how they're acting in a prison and if they're saying something.

And then

the biggest part, when I met with

all these terror groups members, I built my reputation.

The CIA advised me.

So it's they insurance was so I can build my name among the group.

Sean, these people, they talk.

If I'm in a prison with them and they said, oh, we have a brother, Amir, it's very strict Salafi.

He's willing to fight against US.

If he come out from the prison, he's going to be number one Mujahideen.

You believe or not?

98 to 99% of the correction officers in the prison, the old used to think, I'm going to be future leader of al-Qaeda from the prison when I come out.

But they didn't know I was

in the CIA side, in the government side.

My bear was up to here.

I learned Quran.

I read

Arabic, right?

I learned for at least four months Arabic.

I become imam in prison.

Among terror groups, me, why Caucasian, to lead terror groups, you have to be step of head to know the Islam more than them.

And especially when they know,

to the people who was interested to the CIA, I used to tell them, look,

they kidnapped my daughter.

I took this blame.

I was not doing this crime I was not involved you know a lot of the fanatics when you tell them you got arrested coming from Pakistan they don't think you was coming because you was involved from drugs they think you was involved with al-Qaeda so right away the trust came out for me to become very powerful in a prison I was strong in the prison community.

And that's how CIA advised me, build your reputation in prison.

So when you come out, you can be straight inside of al-Qaeda high-ranking position.

So there was a long play right from the get-go.

Yes, sir.

It wasn't just sort through these guys, figure out who they are associated with.

It was building your reputation.

Almost eight years, almost a decade.

And

learning Islam a lot.

Like I can freely sit and debate with any Islamic scholar.

I'm good, knowledgeable, any Islamic scholar.

I can talk about religion,

no different from al-Qaeda members.

Not foot soldiers.

We talk in high-rank in Al-Qaeda.

That's how they accept me

by testing me how much I, what kind of knowledge I have in religion.

Then it came out very easy using my family, how they hold my child

like a kidnapping.

How long were you working for the CIA inside of prison?

From

September 12, 2001 to

the day I was released December and 2007, 11 December 2007.

All these years.

I worked with the CIA.

I want to be very clear.

I work with the FBI, counterterrorism unit.

All the agency used to come and talk.

Every time.

Anything.

Sean, it was a lot of different terrorists, it's a lot of different members.

I had Akshataiba

from the Virginia group.

I had the Iraqi war, the Ali Timimi, Ali Shandia, all these, they are in Florence, Colorado.

All this group, they were getting arrested after the war in Iraq.

So it's not like just a little bit Mickey Mouse.

It was a lot of groups of people, a lot of dangerous people.

So I was always

among the most dangerous groups of the terrorists.

It's not like something small, not like a foot soldier, like Lachwana Six or

the.

I'm going to come back to the story in 2016 when I met the leader of al-Qaeda in a group of five in New York.

They got arrested.

But we don't want to change the subject from this part to the end of the subject, you know, the story, because we're going to come out.

I asked the leader, you never believe what he told me how he wants to go become a leader of ISIS.

What's the reason why he wants to become leader and why he wants to become ISIS member?

I was in shock.

What he told me.

I was in shock.

We're talking in a prison where he told me why he wants to become ISIS member.

Why?

He wants to have a woman.

He never had a woman in his life.

He wants to go get those slaves over there, those

Yazidian

take hostage women in Syria.

This is the only reason he became a

jihadist.

That's it.

Crazy.

It's not for religion.

It's against religion.

Absolutely.

And I can show it to you.

He's now in prison.

In a federal prison.

I said, brother, are you crazy?

You telling me you want to fight the sake of God because you never had a woman.

I can date a woman anytime you want.

You in America.

He's a born American.

It's not a convert.

He's a born U.S.

And he wants to become an ISIS member.

He's a ringleader of one of the five of the group.

He said because he wants to have a girlfriend.

He wants to have a slave.

He wants to have three, four wives, five wives over there.

I know the guy who

shot

another jihadist just to take his wife.

That's not Islam.

We're going to come to the point you will never believe it.

People are not going to...

They're going to say this is crazy.

This is like you want a prostitute.

You don't want to fight the sake of God.

This is how they brainwash them.

Wow.

Did you ever feel like you were compromised in prison?

Like anybody was on to you working for the CIA?

Look,

I will tell you this.

I'm sitting in a yard.

I have a lot of tattoos in arms and stuff.

I have AK-47.

I have a tattoo rided from his bulam member.

his handwriting and I'm sitting in a yard with a tank top and one of the informers, Albanian, he asked me, what do you have here?

I have an AK-47 and it says God is a great.

And I said, that's Bin Laden's name.

But he doesn't know Arabic.

In 24 hours, son, FBI come in

a federal prison.

Remember, not all the agency used to know I'm connected to the CIA.

You know, it's very strict control.

They don't share the information.

It's not like a lot of times I was

informers used to give information about me,

giving information to the government.

I'm a terrorist.

I'm a very fanatic.

But I was linked to CIA.

I was never a fanatic.

But people, I was interviewed from FBI in prison.

I was interviewed from DEA in prison, a few times from the FBI.

And this guy,

in the morning, they're calling me, go

RBMB, meaning you're going to visit a room.

And I didn't have no visit.

And when I walk into a VI agent,

I'm sitting down, my name is so-and-so.

We want to know what kind of tattoos you have in your body.

They put me in a strip room,

naked.

This look my tattoo.

They're taking pictures of my tattoo.

Can you tell me what you have?

I said, this is God is great.

Another one, I bear witness there is no God but Allah.

And

another part here, here I have Islamist religion of peace in Arabic, sign of peace, all this thing.

They're taking pictures and I started laughing with the FBI.

I said, I'm sorry, sir.

We're keeping between us.

Informer Antoine, give you yesterday information.

I was in the yard working out.

He asked me about this.

Don't depend on this informer.

And I told him straight up.

I work for CIA.

Straight in the prison, I told him to FBI.

If you don't believe, call so-and-so.

And then they never came back.

They said, I'm sorry, if you are like that, we apologize.

They walk away.

They took him former from the prison right away because they thought if I go back in the prison, I will stab him or something because I'm a

leader to the Muslim community.

In a prison shop, when I was a leader of Muslims, I used to have bodyguards.

I used to have Muslims, it was 150 Muslims.

If I was given order, something to do in prison, I couldn't put the prison shot down completely.

They were going to do my,

whatever I was telling to do.

It was a time I had to prove myself.

I'm a good Muslim.

I had to beat somebody.

A few times, not once.

Two times I used to beat a Muslim.

One is Pakistani Muslim, one Lebanese Muslim.

Because they had the problem with a gang group.

Now, gangs, not to stab them, I was ordered to prove myself.

I'm a good jihadist.

I had to go beat them in a bathroom.

I had to beat them.

One was bleeding.

So I can prove myself.

I'm a fanatic.

I'm a sympathizer.

I'm a jihadist.

So I had to do that.

And the CIA knew it.

FBI knew it.

I did that.

SIS, the best ever in federal prison.

I tell you this, he has your pass 100% because he was with Navy and Marines.

Lieutenant Lyon, Lions, the best ever man of American deal in my life.

Lieutenant Lyon, I hope you hear that.

He was the best man.

He knew everything what I was doing with CIA.

Every connection, every conversation I needed, I was going through him.

Every special things I was needing to do, special visit with my family, he was just telling me, Blood, when you need to do that, next week, I do it for you.

That was the best ever from American agency who treat me good, does the Lieutenant Lyon

In FCI Ollinwood Penitentiary.

Let's take a quick break.

When we come back, we'll talk about what happened after prison.

It's no secret precious metals like gold and silver are gaining traction.

From the billionaires to the central banks who are stockpiling gold to the growing use of silver for artificial intelligence, the demand is rising.

But how should you buy precious metals?

Where do you start?

And who should you buy from?

Well, I was relieved to find a great company I can trust, and that company is Goldco.

They are top-rated and keep it simple and transparent.

They are an award-winning organization with over 7,000 five-star reviews, and they've got the best free silver offer out there.

So if you're ready to learn how Goldco can help you, call 855-936-GOLD or visit SeanlikesGold.com.

You'll get a free 2025 gold and silver kit.

Plus, you'll also learn about how you you could qualify for the number one silver offer out there.

So give GoldCo a call at 855-936-GOLD or visit SeanlikesGold.com.

Performance may vary.

You should always consult your financial and tax professional.

Whether you're juggling tasks or trying to stay clear-headed throughout the day, Ketone IQ delivers clean brain fuel that can help you think sharper, longer, and smoother.

No caffeine, no crash, no overstimulation.

Thanks to the folks at HVMN for sending me their ketone IQ product to try.

I really like taking ketone IQ before I work out.

It's not an energy drink, but it gives me a ton of energy.

I wish I had this when I was on active duty.

When I take it, I have more endurance, but without the crash.

Ketone IQ uses ketone diol for a fast-acting, natural, slow release effect with no artificial sweeteners or fillers.

It helps support high-focus tasks by directly powering neurons and stabilizing cognitive output, and it's military tested.

Originally developed to support elite cognitive performance in the field, HVMN has an amazing offer just for my listeners.

Visit ketone.com slash SRS for 30% off your subscription order, plus, receive a free gift with your second shipment.

Fun surprises like a free six-pack, ketone IQ merch, and more.

These statements and products have not been evaluated by the FDA.

These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or condition.

All right, Blair, we're back from the break and

you're getting out of prison now.

We're getting ready to go.

And I feel like we did the whole, I feel like that was a whole interview in itself.

Now now we get into the real meat but I am curious I mean what was what does the agency think that now that you're out talking about this stuff with the documentary and have you had any contact with them

I had that one time

after I got my

granted refugee I mean status from the immigration

phone call for two minutes private saying like you don't have to worry too much now about documentaries and stuff just enjoy your life you know keep yourself low profile

and and here you are

look at sean i'll be very honest if i had to go from beginning i swear to god i would do it from beginning it's just the mistake of the agency

They promise you, they promise you the biggest problem.

I want to highlight this, the biggest problem at the US government

when you have a source like me for example

give a chance to have somebody if I have a question because if I deal with the agent I dealt for a year and a half if he make a mistake I have no where to complain or to ask questions everything has to go through one

The best intelligent, you have to have another second source, you know, to see what's going on.

If the agents make a mistake, because I know agent, I was not perfect, John.

I mean, I'm sorry, Sean.

I was not perfect, but I was the best.

When you said why, and people want to know why the best.

Look, I was not Afghani, I was not Iraqi, I was not Syrian, I was not Jordanian, I was not none of this, but I came out to operate all of these places.

I went, I believe strongly if CIA was still

going on to support me and work, I believe strongly I will go meet the bin Laden.

Not that I want,

he will ask to meet with me.

Because I came out to meet very high-ranking leaders.

And you know, in tourism,

this is how they go.

The way they got my record from the people in a prison families, my name.

That's how they go.

Oh, you know what?

The Amir, let me see what he is.

If we want to make him a leader in Balkan to recruit

al-Qaeda members or how we can use.

That's how terrorists work.

They're desperate to

have somebody like me in a group.

It's white, Caucasian, somebody who have the skills to pass any airport.

Sean, believe it or not, if you tell me today, Can you go in this country?

I promise you in one week I can go in any country you point.

Today, the way I'm exposed, if you tell me if you can travel to any country, you said, one week, 10 days, I will be in the country you said.

I have no problem.

I'm not young, but I still, my head works.

I can do still things.

And

the government agencies sometimes they have an issue among themselves sharing the information.

We're gonna come to the point there was an issue with them.

They're trying to recruit me again after I came in US in 2015.

But they said a lot of agency has to be in a loop.

You know, I was not exposed yet.

The biggest problem, the biggest mistake they make with the New York Times.

One president says it's a lot of fake news.

Trust me, it's a lot of fake news.

Why?

Because New York Times put me in the first page.

I was arrested for jumping something.

I was never ever shown arrested in that.

One day I arrested me.

I don't want to come to the story.

This is like to the ends of the story.

When they arrest me in 2016,

it was over 50 agents arresting me.

Bin Laden didn't have that kind of agents.

Helicopter with a sniper was in top of my car wash arresting me.

And when they arrest me, I'm reading the names of the agents.

They're all from New Jersey, not from New York.

But in the meantime, Sean, I'm meeting with the head of the intelligence of New York, John Miller.

I was meeting with him, like with you, with him and five of his workers in my lawyer's lawyer's office why would you burn somebody who's meeting with john miller

he well i mean i think they keep that tight to the vest because the more people that know the the higher the chance that it leaks

no i think it's more than that yeah really what do you think it is it's you know

agents agents they have one problem they like to cover each other even if you're wrong they want to cover because when i give information sean i want to be very clear it's i didn't talk about this

one day al-qaeda told me not to be in a blue area in pakistan i updated to cia sean i can tell you i was communicating worldnewsrop.com

i had uh my code and everything

and when i update cia i said look

Please tell them if because I was in blue area a lot of Americans I see because I was there I watched you know them, they don't know who I am, but I know them.

I can tell when it's supposed to be if it's an American agent or not.

Like you, for example, I can tell why you're in that hotel.

When I tell them, please share this information because it's in a blue area, they're trying to send a suicide bomber.

Believe it or not,

less than I think 24 hours, there was a suicide bomber and killed all of them.

And he failed to update that.

When I came

to

provide the information from the field

back in the Balkans from Pakistan, he said, fuck, I fucked her up.

I said, why, Chris?

I failed here.

He couldn't update it.

That's why all those people got killed.

I was not spying in an agent.

But if he make a mistake, he should say, you know what, I'm sorry I was late.

I couldn't

update to the CIA this information.

I did update it from over there right away.

I said, look at it's gonna be tomorrow after tomorrow suicide bomb in this area.

And it was suicide bombing, I think, four or five Americans got killed.

So I don't want a credit.

I don't want nothing.

I didn't work this job because I can make money.

I make money in normal life.

He just respects me, said, you know what?

Let's help him.

Why he got to go through the process of immigration when he was working for us.

I didn't want it to be a hero.

I don't want to have a medal honor.

But at least, you know, I did that.

I have my my family here

who wants to do this there dangerous job it's very hard especially when they start hearing this story look while i talk to you i know who works for the cia today from my country i i found out in my way

it's nothing it's piece of garbage he doesn't even know nothing so you cannot have somebody in charge like that person for example they take him to train him they train me too i receive training too i was trained from cia I don't hide that.

You know, I'm capable to do anything.

You tell me you want to do bomb, I can do the bomb, it's no problem.

And do you think Al-Qaeda don't want a member like me?

Even I'm exposed today, they will take me tomorrow.

Even if I'm exposed until this moment, they will still take me.

They want a man like me.

But why do you want to avoid to have to CIA somebody who can help me?

I couldn't translate things.

I couldn't even decode the phone conversation.

I know how they communicate the terrorists.

So, why you wanna like make

and

look,

it's a crazy, we talking like it's very interesting part.

I have had the sources.

I was receiving information from inside of the job of the CIA

just recently.

Look at who I am.

I receive a lot of crazy stuff from the CIA in Virginia, we're talking from the base.

What CIA

told people about me.

CIA tried to spread the rumor very bad about me.

It's not to be trusted.

How can I not be trusted?

You burn me.

And then they said, oh, we cannot,

one of them said, we're not denying, but we're not

accepting.

You know, hey, I'm coming.

I show you the picture with the Stinger missile.

You think in U.S.

soil you show that picture and you don't get indicted from the federal prosecutor?

In heartbeat.

But I was a CIA spy.

And I don't regret that, never to the day I die I'm proud what I did and I told my kids if I had to do again I would do it again But at least treat me man.

It's I deserve to be treated, you know tell him look judge this man doesn't need to be in immigration court.

It's our man

It's not easy to

it cost money to train somebody like me.

It cost

a agent came from the

from here to train me overseas.

I was in a training camp from the agent from US, you know, so you spending all this money and losing the source like that.

Come on.

It's not normal.

We'll get to it.

Go ahead.

We'll get to it.

But were they paying you?

Yeah, they was paying me.

They were paying you.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

So it was a business transaction that you expected?

The maximum, the highest amount I did receive one time, over 40 grand.

One shot.

40 grand cash.

And so, I guess what I'm saying is you were expecting more from them than just the payment.

You know?

Business arrangement no not the payment i was never accepting no more money just to tell to tell the immigration judge look he deserved to be with his family here

he did for his family

he has a wife born and raised here every country in the world son

they give a chance to somebody i did mistakes in the past i'm not clean i'm not saying

but I deserve to have a second chance to be with my family.

I don't need to be arrested in 2016 and expose myself.

They couldn't be low-profile, give him his papers back and let him enjoy his life here.

He deserved, he worked for us.

He put his life in danger to protect us, to save our country.

So why we don't go and just give a

just signature, paper.

I didn't ask for anything, just a paper.

Tell the judge, he deserves to be here, let him be out with his family.

I was $50,000 bombed, 50 grand here for five years, and they investigate.

Sean,

they

recruit a woman who cleaned my room, my house, I'm sorry, overseas, and give her paper today.

They brought her from overseas.

She was cleaning my house in the city.

I was born.

I was alone.

I was paying her.

I feel bad.

Family member.

Just what she tells them.

I have weapons.

CIA knew it.

I love weapons.

I had the trucks.

This room, it's nothing.

It was four times, five times bigger than this, full of ton of weapons.

But we put with the CIA from bad guys, from al-Qaeda members.

It was not my weapons.

Was the initial arrangement...

Well, we'll get into this.

Yes, let's get into the interview because I think

maybe some clarity will come to me on that.

But so, how did you get out of prison?

First time or second time?

First time.

I finished my time.

You finished your time?

I completed my time, eight years.

Eight years and four months.

Just to backtrack,

I thought that

they had contacted you again to infiltrate the terrorist networks.

But that was the long game.

They wanted to start with you in prison for a longer.

Okay, so you get out of prison.

What happens then?

I'm going to the U.S.

Embassy in 2008, walking in,

asking, because before I got out of prison, I want to just, so you can be clear, two times I was interviewed from DOD, Department of Defense, two months before I got from the prison.

They tell me, when you get back home, you want to work for us because maybe you're going to look good if they deport you.

I said, yeah, no problem.

And what's going to be exchanged?

We bring you back.

When we promise you, we do it.

We're not federal.

This is always the award.

When we promise you, we're not a federal prosecutor.

CIA, keep the words.

This is what they tell me.

They promise me they're going to bring me back, help me.

They say, you are going to be safe for the rest of your life.

You're just going to keep your mouth shut, not to expose anything.

I couldn't keep my mouth shut if you left me in the middle of nowhere.

I get interviewed, I'm going back to the U.S.

Embassy in Macedonia, walking in,

meeting meeting Mr.

Devin, the best ever CIA agent I met.

If he was

still working with me, I will be maybe more happy.

And I hope you hear that.

Mr.

Devin, he's the one who I started working with them.

I did polygraph tests, I signed the contract agreement, everything at the embassy.

And they tell me from today you work for CIA.

You have a paycheck.

You have all expenses paid, all the travels, whatever you're going to need it, we are here to support you.

All you need, we need it now, you to collect information to see if you cannot come up to Al-Qaeda.

We are interested to know if it's bin Laden alive or dead.

And if you work yourself in a circle of Al-Qaeda, we'll be very happy and we're going to help you.

And I said, I have no problem.

They helped me.

They was giving me money, no question.

They paid my vacation for my wife and kids in Turkey and all these things.

It's no problem.

And even today, even today,

I am very grateful to the immigration they allowed me to stay.

Today I'm clean with the laws.

I have no issues with the laws.

Absolutely.

I'm like normal, like it's just the problem I cannot travel overseas.

They don't give me no document to travel overseas.

I can be here, enjoy my life.

I'm working, paying taxes, everything,

but it's still not enough.

It couldn't be, you know, right path.

My wife is born and raised.

I have right to do adjustment of status so I can become U.S.

citizen.

My wife is born here.

Every country who has a wife citizen, they still can give a chance.

They don't deport them.

My three kids are American born.

My family is all American.

Mother, father, sisters, brother, all of them,

even they passed away, they was American citizen.

So why are you abusing me?

Why you went?

I would never go in the media or documentary, even this documentary, if they was not going to arrest me in 2016.

But they arrested me, I look like a piece of garbage.

You train me, you know how much skills I have.

What do you want?

And I believe,

I also believe, Sean, sometimes maybe, you know, some different informers, they wanna get the credit, they think maybe, oh, he's gonna become terrorist.

Never.

I commit suicide myself.

I hang myself.

I will never go against the country my kids bore.

Never, ever.

It's impossible.

So maybe informers spread these rumors to the sources or maybe blami can be al-Qaeda member or ISIS member.

Never, Sean, again, repeat it.

I would never, I will hang myself, never be al-Qaeda member.

No terror group.

I have a beautiful kids born American.

I don't go against my family.

So you get out of prison, you get deported.

Yes.

And then you go through immigration at the Macedonian embassy where you meet your

no, I have nothing to do with immigration.

I'm going to the Macedonian embassy and meeting with the CI agents.

Okay.

You know, embassy meeting with the CI agents.

How did they contact you?

When I go over there, they put me in one room, small room.

I give my ID.

He came down and he said, give me a half hour.

He go in the office.

He said, welcome back.

We know who you are.

All the details.

He said, we're going to have to meet the next week.

How did they initially contact you?

Was it a phone call?

No, I went to the myself.

You went there yourself?

I went to the U.S.

Embassy in Macedonia myself.

So to see my rights to come to the United States.

And then they told me, we know who you are, come here.

Then they make a meeting next week with me.

We spent six, seven hours.

They said, look,

we know.

what happened with you.

We know what you did in the past.

We know what the prosecutors did, but this is the best time time for you.

Everybody knows here now you got deported, how they got arrested, your family, holding them, this and that.

It's the best time to be covered, to work for us, and we can bring you back.

This is my first step, how I started with the CIA in 2008, field agent.

Was there any discussion of pay at that initial meeting?

Payment,

payment I had in the beginning,

first week I started with 400 euros, 700 euros, 1200 euros, then 2,500 euros a month and the whole expenses.

And they said, we're going to help you to be with your family.

Nothing more than that.

No extra payment over this.

But they said, always we're going to keep you safe.

And so when did you take the polygraph?

I think after a month or two.

If I don't make a mistake, my first trip in Pakistan when I came back.

Just to see if I'm a double agent or just for the CIA.

How long did that take?

It took a couple of hours, three hours, I think, two hours.

One polygraph?

One time, yes.

You passed the first time?

Yes, first time I passed.

Brad On.

Not a lot of people passed that.

I passed first time.

And they told me.

And they told me,

look, Sean, we're going to come to the stories.

You will never believe what I did.

And even people, they're going to say, what are you lying?

I don't, Sean.

In the United States, if you make a story, you commit perjury, you get charged.

It's a federal crime.

I cannot come and say, hey, this is who I am, or this is what I did.

I cannot come and say, I was trying to build a bomb, so this way I can show to terrorists I can build a bomb.

So if the federal prosecutors know that, in two minutes, they will arrest me.

I say that a few times.

So you get recruited.

You have the meeting the next week.

What is the next week?

The Senate meeting.

The next week meeting, we signed the contract.

It was three agents, agents, two male and one female.

I remember like today, we spent like five, six hours or that day in the embassy.

And then they instruct me first, they said, build an

enterprise in your city among the community.

And then next trip start using the phone contacts you had in a prison.

I had from Yemen, from Saudi Arabia.

I visited,

I went, I was guest to number one, the strongest grand movie of Saudi.

I was invited.

He never knew what I was a CIA spy.

I was his guest.

I used the sources from family, prisoners, from being in terror charges.

That's how I came out to build my name so good.

Like, I didn't even believe, there was a time I didn't even believe they trust me so much.

I said to myself,

if I'm a sick or liar or something, how come they they invite me so much?

But I found out from the the people i used to use sources you know just to build my reputation they can bring me in and so what did the training involve

training you said you received training with the cia yes

first i was uh how to communicate with people language skills and then they advised me how to do a weapons uh deal in case so this way if the al-qaeda try test you or if you need to pull some weapons, they teach me how to do this.

Like we pulled a lot of bombs and explosives from bad people, guys' hands in Kosovo, in Albania too.

So I took with the trucks all the

explosives, TNT, C4, you name it, rocket launchers, stingers, all of them, and all with my hands.

When the CIA took them, they took like in a package, like all,

when they bring me trucks, CIA brought me trucks, their trucks i loaded the truck myself with my people you know you have to take the detectors and all this you know so not to explode so i took one by one all the detectors all the explosives we have mines land mines all this stuff put it in the truck and the cia took it and they destroyed and so how long was the training

it was uh

Like

like

I can tell you easy, like three, four months you can put always training when I meet with them.

Like every

first week, second week, eight hours, nine hours, eight hours.

It was a time, three days we didn't never come out from the place with the CIA.

Three days.

Sleep day and night.

How to deal, how to communicate, how to use the weapons.

Three days, never come out from the place with the CIA, with three agents and me.

Where was it?

Where?

In Macedonia.

In Macedonia.

Yes.

They used to have safe houses everywhere.

Then they used the bonsteel in the military base in Kosovo.

And so you get recruited in Macedonia, I guess.

You go through the training.

They tell you they want you to infiltrate Al-Qaeda specifically.

Yes.

And they tell you to do it through your previous contacts in prison and just to grow your network even wider.

Yes, sir.

And so who's the first person that you reached out to?

The first person I was sentenced 25 years or 30 years in a federal prison for supporting al-Qaeda, his name is Salim.

He was in prison.

He introduced me in his family in Pakistan.

And what did you ask him?

Oh, I told him when I come out from the prison, I'm going to join brothers.

Everybody knew it.

When I come out from the prison, all the fanatics, all the terrorists knew it.

The first day they're going to deport me, I'm going to go be joined the jihadist.

All of them.

And who did he connect you with with first he took me his brother to somebody and that's how it started with Beitula Massoud the ringleader of al-Qaeda in Pakistan so right off the bat it's second time

Second time yes, and what would these meetings be like

for when I went when I meet him when I give an oath to them they took all my clothes off

They took me those with those motorcycles.

They changed the car.

They played Look, I want to say this so people cannot.

I know

sometimes they don't trust easy, but they use the word, oh, we're going to put you in a trunk because if the checkpoint is police, we are from here, local.

So if they see you, foreigner, we're going to give them more

excuse to question us and to check us, the Pakistani agency.

So I said, okay, they put me in the trunk of the car.

for a few hours.

I was right inside of the trunk.

I didn't see nothing.

Roughly roads and whatever, you know.

Then when they put me inside, I met

Abu Muhammad al-Masri.

He's still wanted, he's still in his life.

Because I was reading one of the books recently for Abu Su' Ali Sufyan.

He did it.

He was a former CIA for 10-15 years after 9-11.

He wrote the book, and I see his picture, the one I was meeting with him.

He put in a book, he still wanted.

So he was there.

I was another jihadist from

Egyptian, but born in

Bosnia.

I speak Bosnian.

So when he speaks, I speak Bosnian too.

So when he talked, and he told me, Brother, you still want to be with brothers?

I said, Alhamdulillah, that's what I'm here for.

And then he hugged me and he said, to introduce me, he never introduced my name to nobody, only Amir or Abu Medina.

So not to be known where I'm coming from.

So Amir or Abu Medina is our new mujahideen with us.

Wow.

Were you nervous at all?

I mean, did you...

Not at all.

Because I had the strong support.

Only nervous.

I was just afraid not to be leaked.

So then I got killed.

And how would you communicate back to the CIA?

WorldNewsRob.com.

I tell you, here is, I'll give you the detail.

CIA never knew it.

When I was in a field, Sean,

if I had to update quick something, I used to call my wife and talk to her in Albanian.

And she was updating.

But this is what I broke.

This is where I make a mistake.

Because I was told nobody can know this.

But my wife knew it.

I told my wife, Sean,

I told my wife because I thought if I get killed, they're going to think I got killed in a drug dealing or something.

You know, at least somebody to know I'm working for the government.

You know, so they can be one day proud.

Look, my husband got killed working for CIA, not being a drug dealer.

So this is the reason I told my wife.

So my kids grow up.

They don't want to hear, oh, my dad got killed in a drug dealing somewhere in Pakistan or overseas.

But to be proud, my dad was killed because he was working for our agency to protect us, to keep us safe.

So this is why I told my wife.

And then

when I need to update it, I give a code to her, worldnewsrob.com, and I have all those numbers to click it.

And then she was writing.

Whatever I tell her in Albanian, because over there was more easy, somebody to spy on me if it's a different language in Albanian.

It was not Albanian.

Nobody was Albanian over there.

In Al-Qaeda at that time I was now yes, but that time was nobody Albanian, only me.

So I was feeling safe and I was telling my wife, okay, tell them this, tell them that.

And then she was going to computer and updated.

CIA never knew it.

My wife is updating from New York City.

They always knew it.

I'm updating from somewhere

those internet cafes and stuff like that.

But I did it also in internet cafes.

I did update the CIA and I used to look around where it's poor neighborhoods.

I used to go, like, I'm looking some Quranic stuff and then I'm going to my website.

Then I'm deleting complete and I'm coming on.

But I was always careful because you know, when I first time I give oath, I stay, I think, three, four days, if I don't make a mistake in Al-Qaeda camp.

Then after four days, I went back and stayed in the guest house.

So I had a chance to update.

There was like there was not Al-Qaeda, Sean, Al-Qaeda recruit me the way I saw, they thought I was going to be leader to recruit foreigners in Balkans.

This is what they goal, you know?

Not me to be like a foot soldier the way you saw in Iraq throwing

RPG and stuff like that.

They was not looking at me like that.

They was looking at me like to be high rank in Al-Qaeda.

So there was this is the interest of Al-Qaeda in me.

And this was the best opportunity for CIA, you know, to have me like that.

And so, what was it inside, how would WorldNews.com work?

I will show to you if you want to later from my phone.

It was very like you go and you click in World News, it comes news.

Then you have in a site, login.

You don't think if you don't know the website, and then you have a login.

When you go log in, it comes a little small place.

You put your code, your numbers.

I had the numbers.

I don't wanna mention that.

I don't wanna, you know, something exposed is not good.

And I was clicking that.

Again, it was giving me another code.

And then it was open me.

And those communication you see, write and type in.

And then logging out and

disappear everything.

Another option I had.

I used to have some white papers somewhere when I travel.

And if I need to write it, I will be right.

If they stop me, I can put that white paper in a water and melt everything.

And you don't see nothing no more.

You just put the

white paper.

Yeah, everything.

Would they be able to send you traffic through worldnews.com?

Yes.

And

I used to have also GPS some places.

When I used to be in a weapons or if I was in dangers or if I was tracing something or I want to buy something, I used to click it and they used to know

what button I click it and they know where I am, the location.

So it's connected.

It was a small piece like that.

A beacon.

Yeah.

What did it look like?

It's like a yellow and black.

You don't talk.

It's a tracing device.

Yeah.

And has those buttons.

If I was in a dangerous, I will click it three times and they will try to help me if I'm in a danger situation.

So if it's something for location, I used to just click one.

If it's for weapons, it's two times.

Only three times it was appeased to click it.

If I was in a danger, so I needed help.

It never happened.

So I never needed, I was never in a situation dangerous.

Wow, that's

that's surprising.

That's surprising.

And so you, okay, so let's go, let's go back again.

So you get the training, you meet with the head of al-Qaeda

in Pakistan, or one of the top guys in Al-Qaeda and Pakistan.

And

the whole premise of all of this was they wanted you to set up a new cell of al-Qaeda where you're from.

Become a leader.

And become a leader.

Yes, sir.

Become a leader of al-Qaeda for Balkan.

What did they want that cell of Al-Qaeda to do in the Balkans?

So to see if it's going to be threat.

If it's a threat to U.S.

troops, if it's threat to somewhere, if it's threat, because it was planned, we're going to come.

It was a plan.

They thought I'm coming here to attack

with few guys.

For example, I have a today it's

now

we say they are our friends like a new leader.

But I know somebody who's in a group you have in a picture he was in prison with me got deported.

He would never ever be pro-US, never.

And I was close to him like my brother.

And I know him like if he

can nuke our us, he will nuke today.

But maybe today they think he's

now become a good friend.

It's a freedom fighter of Syria.

It's not.

He's a leader of

freedom fighters in Syria now, but he was al-Qaeda member, he became ISIS member.

And I used to come, we're going to come to the point I used to communicate live from New York City.

FBI was telling me to communicate with them in 2015, 16, 17.

No, not 17, I'm sorry.

2014, 15, 16.

I was communicating live.

I spoke to leader of ISIS from New York City, Abu Omar al-Shishani, live like the way with you, but through the

signal.

I was talking, he begged me, and I told to the FBI, look, tonight, 10 o'clock, I'm going to talk to them.

And I give the number, and

they hear that, they see it.

We talked in 2015.

He said, please, brother, come to us.

We'll give you anything you want.

We need you here.

This is ISIS.

Wow.

They taught you how to make bombs absolutely

with TNT C4 all kinds of explosive I can do

with pressure cooking things all those you know homemade stuff

So everything

I can do anything you name it I can do it I'm not good in the guns I'm not good with the weapons I'm very good

I can tell you I I use I shot with you name it all the US military weapons you name it I shot with every one of them.

Snipers, RPG, it's a piece of cake.

You know, those kind of weapons is nothing to me, you know.

I'm like that.

And I love the guns.

So it's compromising both things.

Training me and in my nature, I love them.

I cannot leave no guns.

And so your training was building networks, surveillance, counter-surveillance, how to make deals, how to make bombs, weapons training, communications training.

Do you want me to give you one specific one time when we were training in when we were with agents in a field with the CIA?

They throw me somewhere in the middle of a crowded community and they want maybe three, four cars of CIA to follow me with their sources if they're gonna catch me.

You never believe.

Whole day they watch me, they couldn't catch me.

Whole day they following me.

You want me to tell you what I did?

Second quick

plan of me.

I went in a mosque.

Now they know me that day I was with tactical clothes with a 5'11 black.

So now, see I agents, they're following me.

They see me when I came from the truck,

pickup truck, they know me blurry was with a tactical and I'm walking in a mosque.

Now they're waiting for me where I'm gonna go.

What I did, Sean, I went, you know, in a mosque, sometimes you have those galabias you can wear so you can be praying clean and the scarf and everything.

And now all the agents, this is how they're smart, 10 or 15 of them.

I don't want to, you know, insult them.

So now they're all waiting how I'm going to come out, you know, with the black clothes.

I wear all the white clothes.

I took a scarf, you know, everything, and I walked out.

All day I walk away from them.

They couldn't find me.

In the evening, when we was a place to meet, they all watching me.

Well, they're going to catch me.

They couldn't find me nowhere.

I'm just knocking to the window.

And they got stuck.

oh man this is this is the trainer they had and then when i told them now when i knock the window i'm knocking them with a black clothes they said please tell us right away how you come out from that location and i put the you know those clothes they become like that and i put them out inside of my shirt scarf and everything i said this sir

Fucking told me how you thought you're gonna wear this so quick because I thought you guys gonna watch me with the black clothes.

Did you was our training was, you know, if you're gonna catch me?

Yes, so this is my skills.

So I need to do whatever it's good for you not to catch me.

This is what I did.

Maybe you should be training them.

I think so.

I tell you, too.

I think so.

I should train them.

Who would have thought they would have never thought of a change of clothes?

When we're gonna pull the weapons, I'm gonna come to the point when we pull the weapons.

They were drunk.

You can't believe.

We're pulling like this room weapons.

Two or three CI agents, they're all drunk.

They couldn't even talk.

Imagine you make a small mistake.

All the city goes in the air.

And I did all myself with them in my city,

with American agents.

And then you don't want to come to the immigration and say, let me sign for him.

Come on, man.

And so, okay, let's

back to Al-Qaeda.

So you meet with Al-Qaeda, that's the plan.

They want you to set up a terrorist cell in the Balkans.

They want you to lead it, be a high-ranking Al-Qaeda official.

And so, where do you go from there?

I go back to Balkans, update all the CIA, whatever I went through, and then Al-Qaeda thing, I'm recruiting.

And I did,

I bring a lot of people.

A lot of people was interested to be Al-Qaeda members.

But I give information to the CIA.

How would you recruit?

Very easy.

Europeans, Balkans, soon as they find out you come from Pakistan, soon as they see one stand, you've been in Pakistan a month and a half, they know right away why you've been there.

They see money.

The recruiters, they thought Al-Qaeda financing me, but I had the CIA money.

The Al-Qaeda thought they helping me in Balkans people like from the charity

because it's no paper.

You know, Al-Qaeda cannot trace me while I'm getting the money.

In Balkans, they cannot trace me, but CIA knew it.

I had all the money from CIA, all the new bills.

Whatever I needed, they was offering me.

Anything, here the money.

Sign here.

Get the money.

And so what was your pitch to recruit?

To see

who wants to be Al-Qaeda members.

And how would you broach that?

How would you start that conversation?

Brother,

I was meeting our Mujahideen brothers over there, Alhamdulillah.

You know, they're doing good, they're interesting to recruit brothers, you know, so we can fight these infidels.

They're very easy in that.

And especially in the young generation, it's like nothing.

Really?

No,

look at Sean.

Today, my country is becoming a breeding ground.

Even like 90%, it's pro-US country.

But two weeks ago, group of seven,

I know the leader, we're going to come up to talk about the leader.

His leader was

killed from the drone in Syria.

And

just seven members, they went and killed the best cop in my city who was investigating them.

In front of the house, they executed him.

Just two weeks ago, in my country.

All al-Qaeda members.

If I tell you what kind of threats I received in my first interview before crazy, and I come out to even investigate myself, who threat me, I cannot even believe some people that threaten me.

If I was next to them, they couldn't even look in my face how they would scare of me.

But they send me threat crazy.

They're going to behave me, they're going to chop my head, they're going to chop my pieces in messages.

I don't fear them.

Believe me, I don't fear them.

I don't have...

Look, I don't have no problem to die.

I'm not going to live 500 years.

I have a little bit to go.

At least my kids know what I'm...

I'm proud.

I have no problem.

I will be hero to my family if I get killed because I was working for US government, because I was protecting my family.

America is not in a war with Islam.

One, it's a lie.

Two, it's with Albanians.

America is like God for Albanians.

So I'm proud to die for America.

I have no problem.

My people in Kosovo, they will consider me hero.

I don't care for fanatics and radicals, group of people.

I don't care for them.

They're minority.

For me, it's important, majority.

Majority is my people.

How many people did you recruit?

Well, I can easily say maybe 30, 40.

30, 40 people, and what time span?

Easy, like nothing.

Like nothing.

Like nothing.

Two years.

In two years.

But we're talking

very fanatics, like sympathizers coming to try to support me, maybe 200, 300.

And what would you tell them the mission is?

My mission is to open the cells so we can fight america here

i'm uh uh i was uh

appointed from al-qaeda a leader i'm here

to recruit you guys and who would you specifically target

those

you can see how they talk in uh uh places when there was gathering when we was in uh muslim communities and I picked the one, the more fanatics, when they say openly, we gotta kill Americans, we got to do this, we got to do that.

Those people I will pick all the time.

So you would go, you would essentially be friends, take them out.

You go to parties,

you would

invite them for food.

Should you get parties?

Show them

physical conversations.

Show the guns all the time.

I used to show the guns all the time.

Look at what I have.

I'm ready to fight.

They used to see.

Or sometimes I used to record myself with all kinds of weapons.

And I said, brother, you want to see something black and white?

Yeah.

Here, look at the video.

Oh, shit, brother.

You got all this thing?

Yeah, I got everything you want.

But those are all destroyed.

But I used to buy from different fanatics.

There's a lot of guns over there.

A lot of all kinds of stuff.

How would you communicate back to Al-Qaeda from Albania?

When I go over there back.

Always when I go back.

Always in person.

They never use phones.

I hear

somebody from here said, how this guy communicated with the phone?

Sean, it's it's a stupid question, man.

It's no such thing you can sit down and make a love story in a terror camp, and it's no phones.

They change my clothes, they give me own clothes.

So you have no rights.

You cannot, you cannot even smell to have some phones with you.

But I hear the questions they're writing, oh, how this guy communicated, how he used the phone.

They would never use the phone.

I did not use the phone.

I did not use the phone.

I used to communicate face to face.

I I was in the camp.

How often would you go to the camp and go back?

Like every, let's say if I stay one month in Pakistan or one month in Syria, I go back, stay two, three months in Balkans, and then I come back.

Remember, I was in Al-Qaeda camp in the capital of ISIS, where they declared capital, ISIS, Raqqa.

I was there.

You have a video life.

And you know how I come to

record that?

I said, look, we need this video.

I need to record for propaganda, to act like I'm a visitor but also to recruit people and they let me recruit record that

in a camp not outside in a camp but this is why I'm saying now this is what I use the language what the CIA trained me what I need to learn and how can I use things so you can tell them look we need some video to show people to recruit who I am If I go tell them this is who I am and I don't show nothing, how are they going to believe you?

So you got to show them.

So this is where I used to use skills of the language, so to recruit them and to have evidence where I am.

Okay.

And so

where did you go from Pakistan?

I used to go back to Balkan, Turkey, fly, Pakistan, Turkey, Turkey, Pristina.

Stay a couple of months, come back, go to Syria, go to Jordan, go to Lebanon, Egypt, Saudi Arabia.

Why would you go to all these places?

Oh, everywhere, fanatics.

Everywhere, CIA points somebody.

They used to tell me, we want to know so-and-so what you think.

They used to tell me who they was interested in.

They used to show me pictures on them.

And how would you get yourself in that?

How would you get yourself in?

Through the reputation.

Through the imputation.

Through the imams in my city.

Imams in my city, everybody knows now I did eight years and eight years and four months in prison.

I was deported.

I was separated from family.

I cannot see no more my family only if they come back.

So now they think this guy is going to revenge them.

He has a long history of in military, two different wars.

This guy is not going to play.

He's going to go revenge Americans.

So this is the dream for me to do these things.

So what would the point of you, I guess what I'm asking is what is the point of you going from Pakistan to Syria, to Saudi Arabia, to Iraq?

Did you go to Yemen?

Because I had the sources everywhere.

Yemen was my last trip that day.

I was going to meet Al-Awlaki.

Before we get there, just asking.

So you went from Pakistan and the Balkans to Syria was your next stop?

Yes.

Because I used to have the fanatics in prison.

And through them, for example, I had a Syrian guy.

I go meet

in Syria.

So this wasn't a connection from the Pakistan cell to the Syrian cell.

This was all back from the prison tax that you had made in Prison.

From federal prison.

So

you were working all of your contacts from prison to get into all these 100%.

And now,

did the Pakistani

al-Qaeda cell know that you were in Syria?

Yes.

They did.

Yes.

What did you tell them you were doing in Syria?

Meeting the brothers.

I used to be in prison.

They have a family members to Al-Qaeda.

And they had no inclination?

No, because remember, only in Al-Qaeda can know somebody who controlled Al-Qaeda, a couple of men, one, two, three people, where there are the cells and stuff.

Not all the Al-Qaeda members know everybody.

It's impossible.

Never.

Never happened that.

So let's say bin Laden, who was running al-Qaeda after him, he used to know, for example, who's who, where,

but not everybody else.

Like we have a colleague Sheikh Muhammad, Bin Al-Shib,

Abu Zubaydah, all of them.

They didn't know all the members, but somebody who had the control, it can be one or two, not all al-Qaeda.

How did it go in Syria?

Al-Qaeda?

Yeah, when you met him.

Me, how I go?

I go met the man who used to be, it's in a picture, he was like my best brother.

When I saw him with 14 years old, 13 years old, slave last time in 2015 or 14, I got shocked.

He showed me the slave from Yazidi lady, woman, girl.

I have a kid that age.

I said, come on, brother.

This is sad.

Our religion allowed us.

You are 45 years old.

What do you need that 13 years old?

I hated that.

Come on.

I have two daughters.

You're going to take 30.

He showed me,

I was talking to him life.

You showed me the girl 13 years old.

Imagine I go back, tell my child, my friend is 45 years old.

He's having sex with 13 years old.

Come on.

This is a religion?

Absolutely not.

Absolutely not.

If I can kill, I will kill everybody.

I have no problem.

Religion tells you not to bother them.

Religion teaches you,

you take hostage, you try to trade or do something, treat them very good and with dignity, not to rape them.

I know the religion very well.

So they're going off the religion.

It's nothing in Islam, what Al-Qaeda does, they're doing.

Nothing.

I tell you, I'll give you another example.

Jordanian pilot got burned live.

Quran, Sharia, I studied very good.

Two years I spent only

study the Sharia law.

Forbids to burn human body.

Forbids.

Regardless of your enemy, what he does to you.

If you believe in God, you have to pray, make a dua, make a prayer to God to change that thing.

But not to go burn.

So if you imitate the way they say, you

doing the way your enemy doing to you, then you're becoming just like them.

So you're not following the Islam, Quran, and Sunnah.

You're going against complete Islam.

So this is what they're doing.

You were inside Al-Qaeda training camps?

Three or four times.

What kind of training are they doing?

What was that

experience?

Small weapons.

Like, for example, one time I remember we went

in one of the places like three, four hours driving from Karachi.

It was like very old,

those old houses, ugly garbage.

We were sleeping 15, 20 of us in the same place, like a sardine stinking garbage.

You know, and they were shooting with RPGA case, you know,

running, showing some skills, target, all these things.

What were the conversations like?

How to kill Americans.

How to fight infidel.

Every word?

To fight infidel.

How to kill the infidel.

What would you report back to the CIA?

The way I was seeing that.

Everything, the way they're telling me, that's how I...

The CIA knew Damo CIA.

So I was telling they want to kill infidel.

What specific information did they want out of the camps?

Specific, for example,

when I met this leader who was wanted,

they asked me I was going to meet with him.

They told me, you're not going to meet because maybe it's suspicious.

You are a spy.

Sean, he was wanted, and I went and meet him.

And I went in a court against him, in court, U.S.

federal court, in case if he gets arrested, I can be witness against him.

I went and meet with him.

He couldn't believe.

When he saw me like that with a beard,

he hugged me.

Now he tells me you're my brother.

Now you can fight with us.

CIA didn't believe.

Another thing,

I want to say it.

I think you have this passport or different one.

Sean, I was in Saudi Arabia.

You know, when you're in Saudi Arabia, you cannot get a visa to go to Pakistan.

You have to be a resident of Saudi Arabia or citizen.

When I say to CIA, they invite, they calling me from Pakistan

to go to Pakistan, from Saudi Arabia, it's CIA said, they trying to scam me.

Maybe you're dealing with the low-level al-Qaeda or sympathizers.

It's impossible you to get a visa in Saudi Arabia to go to Pakistan.

Sean, I got the proof.

I got the visa in a Pakistani embassy in Jeddah.

CIA will never believe.

When I update them, I send screenshots, they thought it's a fake.

I took a flight from Saudi Arabia straight to Pakistan.

They didn't believe it.

I said, sir, I'm in Pakistan.

This is my passport.

When I came back, I went trip back to back, Saudi and Pakistan.

Then from Pakistan, when I went back to Balkans, when I showed documents, they freaked out.

How this Pakistani intelligence felt?

Two days in a row, I was interrogated from

ISI, from Pakistani intelligence, in the embassy.

Two days, all day.

They thought, or I'm spy, or maybe I'm Al-Qaeda member.

I said, look, I'm here for business.

I'm trying to open a leather factory business.

I want to bring leather from Pakistan to Balkans.

It's a BS.

And I got the visa and I went in Al-Qaeda.

See, I didn't believe.

Even when I showed, said how it's possible.

I said, sir,

we gotta communicate a diplomatic way with them how they give visa like that.

And I got it, and I can prove it to you.

I went

in Saudi Arabia, I met with Abu Saif.

He was nine years in prison

for Al-Qaeda, in Saudi prison.

He was fighting with Bin Laden.

He was die-hard mentor of bin Laden.

I met with him in his house.

CIA said, how you got the source?

Sir, I'm here with Abu Saif.

I'm mentioning his name.

He was eight years in Saudi prison.

See, I don't believe I was his guest.

When did you start smuggling weapons?

In from 2000, right away after

I was deported.

And so how would would that work?

So you're building.

Because you didn't mention that, and so I thought maybe it came later.

You were smuggling weapons from all these different terrorist organizations and getting them into CIA's hands to destroy them, correct?

Yes, sir.

And so was that part of the initial recruitment?

Or was the initial recruitment just to

No, after I got recruited, they see how much I'm having skills.

I'm capable to do everything.

Like, there was.

Look, when we did one mission, I don't know if I give it to you.

We was, there was seven agents, CI agents and me.

When we did one,

we took the weapons and I asked, I said, please, I want to not to make me feel good.

I want to tell me how I did this job with this weapon.

One of the CI agents said, I would trust my mother to be with you the way you did the job.

I will never be able to do it.

I don't have that kind of heart because I will be scared if I make a mistake, I will kill myself.

And I did that.

That's how they spread me everywhere.

They want me now everywhere to be.

And like I said, I mentioned, I thought, like, I'm better than James Bond.

I was doing so good, I didn't even believe myself.

But you know what is the good part?

Sean, when you know you have a support from a powerful agency, you have more will will to do things.

Because you don't think you can get caught and put in prison.

You're free to do things, like you can read the instruction.

I'm free to do anything just not to kill Americans or diplomatic or anybody.

If I have to shoot, shoot in the air.

Don't aim to do.

If you get caught up with U.S.

troops, you surrender yourself, pretend you're sick or something, but don't shoot.

This is how

I was instructed.

And this is, I did it.

Whatever they told me, I did it the way they told me.

Who do you think helped you the most in your mindset doing this?

Mr.

Devin.

Mr.

Devin.

Yeah.

The best agent.

Star.

I can tell you, he can be running the CIA with no problem.

I guess.

The worst one?

Chris.

Chris, why was he the worst?

The day when I got shot,

I swear to God,

if he was aiming to Chris, I would jump in a gun, me to get killed, not the CIA agent.

That's how I was loyal.

I swear to God.

Never forget that.

He left me like a dog.

He was there.

Yeah, he left.

Iran.

When they come and rescue me, I don't see him never no more.

And he tell the other agents, tell him you're in your own from today.

Bullet wound everywhere.

I couldn't even drive the car.

Let's talk about that experience.

When you got assassinated, what was going on that day?

I'm going to get a

or when they attempted to assassinate you.

Let me let me correct before that

In Before March it was a February we supposed to have a meeting We were planning to go in Yemen in November of 2009 I received that threat in my phone November of 2009.

And I sended the phone to Chris.

I said I received this message.

He said don't worry sometimes somebody tries to bluff and threat, but it's nothing serious.

I said, okay.

I was preparing my territory to go to meet with Ali Abu Laki.

February, he said,

Abu, in a communication, never mentioned my name, always Abu R.

Sal.

Abu, can we change the meeting of February for March, 31st,

2010?

2 o'clock.

I said, no problem.

Please bring your GPS coordination, the passport.

I had one extra passport from them and

something

I tracked somewhere from the weapons.

I said, okay, no problem.

And bring a two-picture

passport picture size of yourself.

I said, okay.

I go like a route usual.

I'm parking my car under the garage.

Where is the CIA safe house?

Like, super, super careful.

very

good not to chase me.

I left the house 6.30, 7 o'clock a.m., changing two different cities,

sitting there, sitting here, so to see if ever somebody followed me.

Nobody.

I go to the garage two floors under, so if it's any tracing device, so not to track that.

So I park my car deep to ground down.

I go, I'm entering the safe house, I see old man carrying the grass.

And I greet him.

He has the white coffee.

I say that, you know, salaamu alaikum alaikum salaam.

No problem.

It's carrying the flowers.

Big building in the penthouse.

It was a CIA safe house.

The way you see me stretching, in a stretcher taken out, I see two guys coming down,

very calm.

Me, I'm between.

I open the door, enter,

and now I see they got separated, but I never thought, I thought maybe the Macedonians entering and they pulled the gun, shot me four times, not once.

The first bullet went through my leg, and I collapsed, pretending like because

there was not professional shooters, they're not somebody who is trained.

You know, I can see, you know, not having skills in that.

And he pulled the gun right to my head, jammed the gun.

I heard click once, twice, three times.

All he said, ooh,

the crone killed me.

And I'm not moving because

when I see the way I saw them, I thought they are like not the guys they have experience like myself, for example.

I can control myself in a shooting and stuff like that.

I'm very calm, not, you know,

I didn't move.

I saw blood everywhere.

I said, let them go out.

I was thinking,

let me go in a basement because I don't want to bring blood.

Maybe they're coming back.

And if I go in a basement, they will come behind me.

If I go in fourth floor, maybe they come, they trace me and they kill him and me.

It's a moment.

I said to myself, you know what?

I'm going to die.

I'm not going to betray them.

I don't want to think CIA, oh, he was a double agent, he killed our agent.

I stayed for a moment.

Blood was not stopping.

I pulled myself quick,

I couldn't move much, I started bleeding a lot.

Like I thought I got a van here, but I couldn't even look my leg because bullet went through.

So I didn't know where I got shot.

I see bleeding here, bleeding in the back.

Like it's a quick moment.

And I went to fourth floor.

We used to have a quote, if you see newspaper in a floor in a Macedonian riding, so that's me Chris is inside.

So I don't have to put the key so neighbors to hear I'm opening the door.

And I see Chris inside.

And he said, what happened?

I said, I got shot.

He said, who did it?

I said, I don't know.

It's two people.

I'm going there.

He pulled his belt.

He pulled my belt.

He tied it up.

I stopped bleeding.

And I see he's calling for backup for, you know,

to help us.

And he's talking, continue our man is down our man is down I need help our man is down and I I can hear that he had this different phone using with them saying we are in a way we are in a way we're gonna rescue just you know careful control situation

bleeding and I start losing the control then the I guess neighbor saw the blood the local police came over there and the secret police came they almost clashed with each other local police and secret police secret police supposed to be our friends from Macedonia.

So now Chris is talking to them.

It's our man is down, but he's not opening the door.

And all I see when they open the door, I see AK-47 right in my head.

Now I said,

they're gonna kill me because they see me with a bear.

Now

he's a white, clean American.

I'm with a bear.

Now they're gonna think maybe I'm trying to kill him.

You know,

it's a 10-15 people, two different groups of agency.

It's like,

and I lost the control.

Chris gone.

They took me with a stretcher.

They sent me

one day or two days in one hospital.

And that moment, when they came after two days,

they gave me a stash of money.

I don't need the money.

They said, from today, you're in your arm.

from hospital.

That was it.

Yeah, that's the worst part.

How did you get burned?

It's a good question, a million-dollar question.

Sorry.

I've been through everything in my life.

I've repeated many times today.

I don't have no problem to die.

But to be betrayed like that, come on.

Central intelligence agency.

The strongest agency in the world.

You rush into judgment.

You didn't investigate anything.

Cameras everywhere.

Sean, I went after one week.

Sorry.

Want to take a break?

Yeah, a few minutes.

Let's take a break.

All right, Blarum.

We're at the safe house.

You get shot.

I can tell you're very disappointed at how the agency treated you after that and abandoned you.

We asked,

How do you think you got compromised?

I mean, I'll bet that's gone through your head day after day after day.

How do you think you got compromised?

The way I looked at

one day they did a passport for me

and the passport they did it,

it was real my name,

but I was not from that country.

The people who did the passport

stopped me one time in a border for four or five hours, investigating me.

Me, I was with three or four fanatics.

One of them was arrested for terrorism in the border.

Same people who came out to help us that day when I got shot, same one was there.

Sean, you know how Balkans function?

Regardless, how friend can be over there with you, they still have like a family like me.

I have some trusted person.

I tell look,

I know this.

So I strongly believe agent make a mistake, leaked me, my name,

and they leaked the information to the fanatics.

This is what happened.

So, now for him, not to be blamed,

I don't know what he put in my jacket behind to the CIA.

He can say anything, I don't know.

And CIA, they never asked me.

So

he couldn't say anything,

but they never give a chance to hear my voice die today.

I did nothing wrong.

If I have to start again,

I will die for this country.

If I was that day the guy was trying to shoot Chris, I swear to God, I will put myself in front and get killed.

Never betrayed.

Doesn't matter this job is a dangerous job.

I'm very proud of what I did.

I did for my kids and I did for U.S.

And I say that early, all my family is Americans.

Albanians have nothing to do with terrorism.

At what point did Chris leave?

That day.

Did he leave when the police showed up?

Yeah, as soon as they took him, yes.

Chris left that moment when the police, two groups of police came, one supposed to be our friends, because we used to have a court.

If it's a friend of Chris, that means they are our friends.

So when they walk in that day,

it was our friend supposed to be.

And after all this, I investigate, I did the research myself.

Sean, somebody who was trying to help me,

March 31st, he got killed.

May 9,

after a month and a half, him and three, four friends.

Maybe he became a victim because of me.

He was trying to help me.

He got assassinated.

If you see the van, you will never believe how they kill him.

Because he was trying to help me to find out who tried to kill me.

How did they kill him?

In a minivan, they execute him.

Four guys, not one, all four of them.

All four, my friends

in Macedonia.

If you see the van, you will think there was fire 10,000 bullets in that van.

He was trying to help me to find out who tried to kill me.

Somebody's covering up somewhere.

Sean, I went

after six days, April 7, my birthday, it's it's April 8, one day before my birthday, at U.S.

Embassy where I was recruited.

I was with a can, I couldn't even walk.

And I parked the car right in front of the embassy so they can see it.

I entered the embassy, somebody came out to talk to me, they told me in embassy, you cannot drive no more that car

from the agency, from the CIA.

Don't drive no more, don't come here no more, don't come to Macedonia, you are in your loan.

And I tell them simple, how come it's a cameras in front of the safe house everywhere, how come you guys didn't find out who did that?

I don't know, sir.

I'm just passing a message.

When I came from the embassy, Sean, in a Macedonian border, I was threatened from Macedonians, agents.

Cursed me badly.

Don't

come in our country, this, that.

I'm a friend of Chris.

He's telling me at the border.

And I tell him straight up, F, you and him, if you want to kill me, kill me.

So something is behind covered.

So what is something?

For I will advise in this

interview.

Intelligence agency, U.S.

intelligence agency is the best.

But they need to investigate the source sometimes.

It's nobody perfect.

I'm not perfect.

I did make mistakes.

I was not a perfect spy.

But trust me, I was a diamond.

I operated everywhere.

I was never exposed, never was nobody suspicious in me.

I did very good, but I was not perfect.

But agent maybe make a mistake.

Why you don't question him?

Why you want to lose the source?

Sean, I can say to you, this is, I want you, people to hear that.

Believe me, I'm better than 100 CI agents.

I was better than 100 CI agents.

I was.

CI agents, they can do a job.

Don't take me wrong.

They are intelligent.

They have money.

They have sources, everything.

But I was inside.

CI agent couldn't go where I went.

CIA agent couldn't sleep

between al-Qaeda members.

I slept with them, with 15 of them.

I was in Raqqa sleeping with 15, 20 of them.

Imagine one of them just smell I'm a spy.

They will

burn me life.

But I did that.

But CIA agent would not do that.

So this kind of heart I had.

So, if you have a man like that, why you want to lose him?

I hope they listen and they correct the mistakes.

They always have a source.

If they have a spy, let's see what he said.

Maybe the agents make a mistake.

We don't need to rush to judgment and just ban him.

Let's help him so to find the truth.

What's behind?

Who's behind?

I mean, unfortunately, this is kind of how it works you know I mean they they recruited asset to do the dirty work I mean it's in the outline throwaway spy yes and

that's just how it that's just how it works but the best will be to make a changes

you want me to advise you one thing what us

complete U.S.

agency government did with my help one thing good

And I know, I don't care, they don't want to honor that.

Sean, here used to be very easy to make a US passport.

I instruct them how it's easy.

And I'm not saying 100% just my help,

but believe me, US passport rules was changed because of me.

I teach them how to change because there was a piece of cake to make a US passport.

A piece of cake,

two days.

You can make it, it's not you, and you can get US passport.

United States changed that

because my help.

I used to,

I told them who doing that from inside the job, how they doing.

A lot of people got the passport, even terrorists gonna get that, and me, I blur him, scholar, I teach in that, but they never say that.

They always, that moment said, you did a very good job, but after who cares?

I did a lot of things good,

but

they don't care.

That's what you say it.

That's how agency works.

If they have that, they ban you.

This is how they never come to admit or accept.

I was in touch with George Tennon two times from federal prison.

Remember, I'm mentioning that from George with George Tennons twice in 2003 and 4, two times with the head of CIA, from federal prison.

So if I was like that person

changing your agency, I don't need to know that, but have somebody to investigate that.

You know, make agency stronger.

We need sources.

It probably has more to do with blowing their own cover than

assets.

Because once your cover is blown, they don't want the rest of

their staff, their employees burned so they can continue on doing work.

But so in the hospital, you said they came to you in the hospital with a stack of money.

Yes.

And what was that conversation like?

The conversation was, we're gonna escort you to one of the borders night time.

They asked me to escort me to Albanian border.

I said no.

They escorted me to Kosovo border.

They gave me the money.

They said you have to be in your own.

Don't ask to speak with nobody from US agency.

You have to be safe.

Then when I went after six days or seven, April 7, they told me to get

away that car.

I found two tracking devices in my car at a mechanic shop.

Under the car, two tracking devices in that car, CIA purchased for me.

And that's the car that they said don't drive anymore?

Yes.

What point did they tell you, have a nice life, don't go high-profile?

in after my immigration case finished in 2022 so they were in contact with you again after the community

private no name

friend of chris

that's what they said yeah this is a friend of chris yeah but shan you see how i'm sitting with you believe it or not i used to get the information from inside cia in this few years from the source who's very close to the CIA.

American

American, not Albanian, American, who's very close to CIA.

And

the source told me what they're even saying about me.

What were they saying?

It's crazy.

I don't want to even, I feel bad to say it.

Why?

Because like they use you, they use you and you're nothing.

Like, I don't want people to be scared to work for the agency after this.

I don't want to use those things.

They want to make you look so bad.

And the source telling me, source is very close to CIA every day with them.

Source will run Iraq situation war.

So they don't think I came out to get to somebody who I can get things.

Person who was

planning in Iraq side,

in Iraq war, three, four years.

And this is what they're saying about you.

I said, why?

Sean, if somebody wants me to be a bad person, maybe, I believe Seana too.

They want to have a business more work, so maybe this guy go crazy.

No, Sean.

I'm proud to be American.

Maybe somebody has

crazy ideas.

What were they saying about you?

If I say it, it's no good people to hear that.

Did they paint you to be a double asset?

No, never.

Never double asset.

Like, who can do that job where he did...

It's bad to say it in the air.

I don't want to, you know, because people are going to think then, hey, I would never do this job.

If they say it about him like that,

they're going to say that about me same thing

so they completely washed their hands of you yeah

and then in one way or another painted you out to be bad yeah and then came back after

after 2012 13 14 they still want to communicate with me they call my lawyer in New York City

He's in US soil.

I don't know how to

we can take him from US soil And I told them, I told my lawyer, tell them, you don't have to take me.

You tell me where you want me to meet, I can come and meet.

I don't need your help.

You never helped me to take me somewhere.

I came my way.

We're talking after I got burned, after I got shot.

Why did they contact your lawyer?

What did they want?

Because I think there was scare something.

When there was a Belgian bombing,

they thought I knew some of those guys.

and

Syria hypothesis the ISIS they knew what I was in Syria.

I knew it in from 2008-09 they were bringing weapons from Iraq Shan.

I was there.

I was witnessing trucks full of the weapons.

This is what's going to be.

But I never knew the name ISIS because still was al-Qaeda.

Then they changed to Jabbat al-Nusra, Dawla Islamiyah.

Then they changed to ISIS.

But the same people.

It's not, they didn't go away.

It's the same people.

al-Qaeda changed the name it's the same fanatics it's never different I had very strong source inside of the Syria

I spent three four months in Syria and they found out maybe it's a plan in US soil I was communicating with them

believe it or not somebody got killed with a drone just because my health from New York

They tell me to talk to him and I talk and they never say

because of me they kill him.

But after two days I found out he's killed.

But he was talking to me in a phone in New York from Syria.

But they never we talk in 2015.

If I was bad like that,

why are you talking to me then?

So what's interesting is earlier you were saying that all the communication goes through couriers.

Person to person, face-to-face, that's it.

Yes.

And now we're talking about you're on a phone call with one of the top guys in Syria who gets killed in a drone strike.

Yes.

And so when did that switch?

When did they switch from

ISIS uprise?

They was using Telegram system.

They thought they cannot trace nothing.

It's Russian control.

So they was talking very free.

Just now when ISIS came out

in Telegram.

It's that app, Telegram from Russia.

So they was using that and signal, two of them, and signal too.

So we was communicating with them through those two things.

It was a time, I told them what time I'm gonna talk to them from here, from New York,

and

they was

listening in the conversation.

Sean, viewers gonna want to know if it's true or not.

Sean, if I communicate with the terrorists overseas from US soil, you end up in US penitentiary.

You get arrested in two minutes.

So this is me.

I was communicating from US soil with terrorists.

If I was not CIA source,

I couldn't get why I didn't get arrested.

If I'm lying, you know, because people, look,

you have a sick people everywhere.

They come like one in Denmark.

He worked for CIA a little bit for a couple of months and lunatic.

Now I hear this drinking and stuff.

He was not Muslim.

He was converted in Islam in a prison.

But I was not like that.

I was strongly skilled person.

Are they aware?

Do you think that you're coming on the show?

I don't think so.

Are they aware?

No, maybe.

Maybe these two, three days

they listen to my conversation, but if they're going to like it, I'm 100% they're going to hate it.

I'm 100% they're going to blame in you.

Why this guy bring this

source here now

who knows people how they're going to think for us, how it's going to be our image?

Are they aware of the documentary?

Yes.

That's what they told me.

Yes.

They told me, you know, stay calm with your life.

You know, you don't need to expose yourself.

In that two-minute conversation, that's what they told me.

But I said, I don't need advice.

I don't have no problem to die.

I want people to know what I did.

I'm not a dirt person.

I'm not garbage, the way you think.

I'm a normal human being.

I'm a father of three beautiful kids.

I go on live with normal life.

What did they say about the documentary?

They didn't say nothing.

I didn't steal here after nothing.

Did you tell them you're doing it?

Oh, yes.

Yes.

And they didn't say anything?

No, they didn't say anything.

I told them I'm going to put the book, and it's going to be a six-episode movie also.

After the documentary, I'm planning to put the six-episode movie.

And

they do still have a contact there.

I don't contact them.

They contact me.

I don't contact them.

You know, we missed,

Sean.

When I got shot, it was one more mistake in my side.

You see, I say it.

I have no problem to admit my mistake.

I had a secret number.

If I'm in a danger situation, I have to call that number at the CIA, which is Washington.

It's free.

I can call from everywhere.

Only if it's a danger situation in my life.

Like if it threats something, I can call that number so they can help me.

When I didn't call my wife, because I told her, if I don't call 48 to 72 hours, you need to call this number.

And she called them.

They answered, what is the message related?

This is

a message from Abu.

And what is the message I can take?

She said, my husband disappeared.

And the phone after that is disconnected.

And she tried to call again.

No more ringing that phone.

That's the mistake I make in this.

All these two years or 10 years working with the U.S.

intelligence agency, and one time with the weapons,

the way they told me to do the weapons,

I guess they thought I was not capable to do in a professional way, not to be dangerous.

I did it good, and we changed the spot where we're gonna get the weapon stash.

It was crazy bombs, landmines, and everything.

And

Chris was with crew, with two, three cars, with the CIA, and I changed the spot.

He came in my city.

I told him not in my city because everybody knows in my city in know me god forbid one human see me with this bear and six seven people Americans with clean shave I will be suspicious right away so I did changes myself I switched the place I told him not in that place but through the communication not the in a plan like last minute and he got angry in that I said I gotta save my I gotta be safe I don't want to expose me and you're you're gonna tell me F yourself and you're in yourself alone.

I changed that spot, I did the job, excellent.

All I did that mistake to change the job, and my wife called in the CIA.

Two mistakes I did with CIA.

The rest, never anything.

I was perfectly clear in time.

Whatever I was instructed to do, I went 100%

according to the instruction from the CIA.

Where would you procure the weapons?

I I used to have a...

Were these coming from Syria, Pakistan, Saudi?

Were they?

In Balkans.

They were all coming in.

In Balkans, all in Balkans.

But the uranium, it was coming from Russia.

Through the Germany, we did investigate.

And it was a possible.

They want to build a Derry bomb fanatics.

They want to sell it to me knowing it's going in Al-Qaeda's hand.

There was a lot of money involved.

And we was investigating that.

One of the source, one of those two brothers got shot.

We not mentioned the name because still they investigating.

Still it's under, you know, I don't know what was going on with government, but they still are there.

One of them got shot.

I guess because this issue,

but

his life.

They tried to assassinate him.

One of those two brothers.

This is the issue.

I was involved directly with them.

We were trying to put hands in that because they thought it's coming, it was a missing nuclear head from the former, from that time, Ukraine one, they gave up to the Russians.

So it's still saying it's a missing,

so they thought maybe that's the part it's coming, and it's coming in Al-Qaeda's hand.

So the Russians were selling Al-Qaeda uranium?

Yes.

What year was this?

It was in 2009, 8 or 9.

You can look in the communication.

It's clearly over there.

And you were involved in that?

I was 100% involved.

How did that, how did you get connected to the Russians?

Through the fanatics.

Through the fanatics.

They bring truth from Germany to Italy, from Italy to Albania.

And so, why were the Russians

involved at all?

I have no idea.

It's a good question.

If I know, I will say it.

How easy is it to get uranium in Russia?

It's very hard

because you need a lot of skills.

You have to be real professional in that part to deal with that.

Seems like it would have to be somebody inside the government.

Yes,

100%.

Did they get it to him?

I have no idea.

I know he was there

because we were going to purchase.

CIA was telling me, hold on, we're going to have an expert to do this.

You cannot deal yourself.

So if we get that,

you're going to be disappearing.

You're not going to be able no more to work.

So we have to have our men to deal with that.

You just have to keep them whole.

You're buying that.

How much uranium?

They were saying it can easily kill half a million.

How many bombs would this go in?

Three or four.

And they would have Al-Qaeda smuggle it into the U.S.

Yeah.

Do you think that happened?

Look,

if it's that

plan, why didn't happen until now?

And again,

terrorists need to get lucky one time.

Not all the time.

Once.

They have a patient.

Sean, those people are not a joke.

Not everyone.

But their brains are really smart.

That's why they want me in.

After I got shot 2010, they begged me in 2014 to go back

to be leader leader after I got shot.

And the best source I had, he knew what I got shot, but he never thought I got shot because I was a spy.

He thought maybe our secret agents they want to assassinate me so I'm not a fanatic, so I cannot attack US.

So maybe it's inside job from the government of my country

or neighbors,

Serbia or Macedonia.

So they try to

assassinate me so I don't do something bad.

When's the last time you had contact with them?

With US?

With the agency?

2022.

That's the last time?

Three years ago.

January 2022.

6 or 7 January.

Two minutes.

Because I'll tell you what's going through my mind.

What if they got in contact with you to tell me that in this show?

Ah, no, never.

To drive a narrative.

Never.

Never, ever.

I never planned to come in your show.

I was watching your show, the best show.

Seeing you passed, reading your CV.

They asked me to give, look, I mentioned New York Times.

It's a crazy interview.

Headline, New York Times, number one newspaper.

But to come here,

I don't believe it.

But

if they're going to like it, I don't think so.

Well, there's a lot of higher-ups that want us to war.

We both know that.

I know very well, and you know very well.

Sean,

if it's like that,

you saw the story, you see me.

I don't hide what I can do.

I don't tell people in the street, I don't tell family members, but this is who I am.

So, why you don't

work with him to keep him quiet?

It's very easy.

You are the strongest agency in the world.

You don't need to come and bow down and say, I'm sorry.

No, absolutely.

Just let him stay calm with your family.

Here is your

green card, U.S.

passport.

Stay calm.

Enjoy.

They give informer, Sean.

They give a lady who was clean in my room.

Look at this.

I want you to see this.

Listen.

They give a lady with four kids.

They bring her from over there here

for nothing.

And you not giving me, she's a piece of garbage

loser lady she was deported from european countries involved in the crimes and they bring her because she was cleaning my room she told them oh he has a lot of slash weapons and you want me to funny thing joke when the immigration prosecutor asked me do you know do anybody has you papers ever Guess what?

I left envelope with some papers.

This lady, to touch it, she did it, and she gave to the immigration that information.

information.

Just me and you, we know this bottle, correct?

Right now.

If somebody else asks us from outside, you or me told them.

So that lady told the immigration, that lady told the CIA, oh, Bledim has the weapons.

That lady was cleaning the room, my house.

She told me how you got shot.

I said, I got shot accidentally because I don't wanna, it's a family, I don't wanna be scared kids because gossip.

No, I said I was playing with a gun, I got shot here.

She told CIA the lie.

He got shot himself.

I never got shot myself because CIA helped me.

Why CIA didn't go back and say, hey, why are you lying?

Somebody tried to kill him.

You telling us he told you he got shot himself?

Do you understand?

It makes sense to you.

She tells them, oh, he told me he got shot himself accidentally with his gun.

He likes gun.

He shot accidentally himself.

I don't shoot with left, I shoot.

I'm a rider.

I'm not a lefter.

I had no gun.

You know, another thing we missed, when I was in hospital,

they came,

local police, to see if I have a gunpower in my hands.

They did that wrapping things with aluminium thing.

They do it.

If I was engaged with shooting, I was not engaged in shooting.

I had no guns.

I never crossed.

I crossed the border one time trying to show samples with uranium

to the CIA and they told me, please don't ever do that.

It's very dangerous.

And then one time there was something,

issue with some kind of size of ammunition we found and I took it.

I took it because I'm brave, I'm not scared.

It's not like people can say, is it sick?

No, it's not sick.

I have no problem to deal with the weapons.

It's like somebody do draw the flag, I'm good with the weapons.

If you're a good drawer with a flag, I'm good with the weapons.

So

this is how I am.

And you taking a BS from somebody from nowhere, from a source who you had a decade working for you, decade.

I spent from 91 to 2010, nine years.

Plus, after that, communicating.

Sean,

you can see

you're super intelligent.

Look at who's John Mueller.

John Mueller requested to meet with me.

I met with John Mueller, head of counter-terrorism unit.

Not the Asian, head of counter-terrorism, who met Bin Laden.

John Mueller met Bin Laden 25 years ago.

I met with him.

He requested to meet and I went and see him.

And I was after I came from Canada, after I got shot in 2015, and two, three different times I met with the CIA and FBI in my lawyer's office.

Not once.

So if I'm bad like that, so why you want to meet with me?

If I'm no good, so why you want to meet with me?

And I will not come in your show.

I will not go in immigration or nowhere to put my name in the dangers and family name in the dangers.

If they come and said, you know what?

We're not saying if we make a mistake or not, we're going to call the judge and say, the judge, you enjoy your life, get your papers, and that's it.

They never did that.

They're supposed to do it.

They told me, We're not like a federal prosecutors many times, not once.

DOD, Department of Defense, twice in your county, Pennsylvania, said, Mr.

Skoro, we're not like a federal prosecutors.

We are the Department of Defense.

If we say something, we keep that.

None of them.

I have to keep my loyalty to you and agency, but you don't keep nothing to me.

We got to work something together.

I'm not not interested to make money of my movie and book and document.

Trust me, I work.

I can make a lot of money.

My wife works.

My two kids work.

We work, four of us.

It's not really money.

It's no money to the CIA working.

Trust me.

You get some money, but for me, it's nothing.

It can be for an Afghani goatkeeper, you know, those poor guys, you give $500 or $1,000.

I'm not Afghani.

You know, I can earn money in a proper way.

You You bring in 200,000 Afghanistan and you say they help us.

No, those 200,000 Afghanis, they didn't help us.

It's stupid to think like that.

It's embarrassment.

We help them.

They give up not to fight.

They coward.

I'm using this word.

I'm sorry to use that.

How come they didn't find Taliban?

Why they left all those weapons over there?

Why they give up so quick?

They didn't even fire a bullet.

They ran away.

We spent 20 years over there.

We spent all that money.

We invest all that money.

And now you bring bringing 200,000 Afghanis, but you don't want to help your source.

You had a 10-year source who was working everywhere.

What did they plan on using all the weapons that you procured?

How do they, I mean, you talked about landmines and all of that kind of thing.

They destroy all of them.

They took it and destroyed it.

They took it and destroyed it.

Everything.

Whatever I got, all the CIA took it.

With the

network that you set up.

in

shit Slovakia

the network that you set up would they ever ask where the weapons were?

They was thinking I'm uh uh getting for al-Qaeda.

But did they ever want to see him?

No, never.

Because it's a strict rules.

Al-Qaeda doesn't show nothing to you guys.

I cannot uh that's a two secret maybe.

If they ask me, I would say, are you a spy?

You working for for somebody?

Maybe you're working for Americans or a foreign agency.

You see the bathroom you have downstairs.

I can say three or four times bigger than that place.

I took C4 from the terror group.

Just C4.

Two or three times list.

Like that bathroom you have.

Full.

Not just a little bit.

Full.

Yeah.

This with my hands.

And all give to the CIA.

I did never problem.

I never caused no damage.

No CIA was ever hurt or something.

Everybody was safe and good.

I did everything myself.

How did you get back into the US?

How I came back?

It's very easy.

For me, it's no problem to come to the U.S.

It's not, it's no problem for me today, after 10 days, to be in Afghanistan.

It's very easy.

It's all open border.

Sean, I always keep my sources.

I always have friends.

My good friends, they know I will never betray them.

I would die, never betray them.

I'm very loyal, but I'm not loyal to terrorists.

But I can be your friend.

I never betrayed you.

But not to terrorists.

I'm not loyal to terrorists.

But to friends, I'm a loyal.

I can pick a phone.

If I want to assassinate somebody, I can do that.

I have a friend.

So, are you saying that you came back into the country illegally?

In the U.S., yeah.

Somebody drove me from Canada.

It's no problem.

You have an open border a lot of places.

And so what's your status now?

Oh, now I'm

to stay.

My status is granted from immigration judge.

I have no problem now.

I'm legally permitted in the US.

I have no issue no more.

I have no courts or nothing.

I'm free.

It's just I cannot fly overseas.

And what do you do now?

I'm a a cab driver.

Hell of a cab to get into.

Yeah, but I never talk to the customers.

You don't?

No.

I don't think they will believe you, anyways.

Oh, it's not that.

And I meet all kinds of people.

Sometimes it's interesting.

Some people, they want to show off or tell you story.

And I don't buy easy.

I have more skills than them.

I was

a car wash owner for 10 years.

I had a car wash business.

I lost car wash business because my bad friends, CIA, 2016, they're sending me team 50 people to arrest me in Brooklyn with helicopter, with sniper.

They're

arresting me like arresting al-Qaeda leader.

I couldn't believe it.

What did they arrest you for?

For nothing.

Complain.

And they released me.

What complaint?

What was the complaint?

They said

the prosecutor, here I can give you small details, the prosecutor who arrests a terror guy who's convicted in U.S.

soil, overseas,

when they came in Canada, they thought I was going to testify something against.

And the prosecutor convict him with my

source information.

And he gave credit to informers, all my information, what CIA provides to him.

And then he went against me saying he's a liar, the prosecutor.

And then I go in a court in front of the federal judge.

I said, Your Honor, I want to, because I know now I'm not a mouse not to know my rights.

And I told the lawyer who was defending me, excellent lawyer.

I have the best lawyers in the United States this time.

Before I didn't have that.

Now I have the best lawyers in the United States.

And they're willing always to defend me for free.

I don't have to pay them.

They're so good lawyers, they're willing to defend me for free.

Because they know I'm honest.

They know I put my life in the danger to protect Americans.

They come, the judge said to two prosecutors, are you going to indict him?

Prosecutor had no indictment.

Sean, if you re-entry to U.S., if you have all these pictures, the prosecutor will send you for life in prison.

So they didn't do anything.

They didn't do anything.

And the same prosecutor, after one, you know, the worst part in the Justice Department are federal prosecutors.

Because they work one year, two years.

They don't work to stop a criminal, they just work to build a little bit of reputation to create experience so they can be private lawyers to make money.

Because prosecutors don't make no money, so a lot of people become victim for that.

The way I become victim,

but thank God, judge, make a right decision.

I really appreciate it.

I have nothing to say.

That judge is going to be.

I have a

I have all the recording.

Like, you see, the way I was talking to you today,

the judge, they know I record all the decision.

I'm not supposed to do that.

But I was so happy when they make that decision.

Like, I'm a born for second time because my kids was there.

They seen, they know what I've been through.

They was all the time present with me.

They went in a pain the way I went.

They suffered

with me, my wife, and kids.

So the judge said, I cannot deport this guy.

This guy is going to stay in my country.

She made decisions.

She was a lady.

She granted me stay.

And I'm here.

I'm happy with the judge, but I'm not happy with the agency.

Because agency couldn't do that.

Me not to be here.

Sean, agency,

I still couldn't help the agency a lot of things.

Even after my assassination attempt, I couldn't help them a lot.

I was more brain than them, not from all of them not like uh devin and scott those devin and scott i dealt in the beginning they were brilliant agents super good ci agents and the one in the federal prison lieutenant lyons he was former marines he was excellent i will

welcome to work again with them but the last one

crazy would you do it all over again absolutely even knowing how they treated Yes.

With

no mistake.

No second thought.

Just I will put one condition.

I want everything black and white in a paper writing.

The way agents work inside of the agency, I want like that too.

If you're not going to have me to have that paper because I signed contract with them, If I cannot keep that paper, my kids cannot have that, then I will not.

But

if you offer me that, I will do it from the beginning.

And you don't believe how much is the country in the dangers today.

You're not going to see that today.

You're going to remember my interview with you after 10 years, how much I see it in a country.

How it's

fanatics growing in the U.S.

How are they growing?

Badly.

I mean, I see it.

I know they're recruiting out of the country.

The little bit you see.

It's me different because when I see what they how what they're reading

I can tell

if they're gonna be bad to the country you know when Imam tells you

hey you don't need to ask me all the time fight for your rights do what you have to do for your rights

that mean he's instigating you he's preaching you he's brainwashing you you to do something that's bad

and the u.s agency failing badly another Another thing, they have no control of finance.

How much money they give, US government have zero control.

And

that finance goes into bad people's hand.

You know why it's quiet today?

Because they want to grow.

In a fanatics

ideology is this.

I can easily tell you that.

The ideology is a sick ideology because

they wanted to get get strong with finance.

So when it's time to fight you, they can fight you.

They're not making peace with you.

They're just quiet.

They're telling you, yeah, like a situation in Syria.

But when it's time, they will fight you back.

We help al-Qaeda and bin Laden in Afghanistan.

You know what the

CIA agent I read, his book, I don't want to mention his name now to advertise him.

He said we offer him over half a billion dollars to Bin Laden in his book.

You can read that.

Just to come in TV and say, I'm giving up jihad.

I'm not fighting against Crusaders.

I'm going to live in Saudi Arabia.

He said, no.

I read in his book.

He was 25 years CI agent in Bin Laden's unit, investigated.

That's what he said.

So same thing happened today.

A lot of breeding of fanatics is there, but the agency is failing.

You know, it's a joke.

The biggest

breeding comes from the prison, from institution.

Crazy.

You don't believe it?

I believe it.

I tell you, the way I see it, it's crazy.

And we're going to feel the pains after 10-15 years.

But it's going to be too late.

Sean, it's here.

You ask me, it's easy to get weapons.

I can get weapons as much as you want in the United States.

Give me the money.

I can buy you anything you want.

Anything you name it, I can get you.

So, if I can get that, you think one day terrorists are not gonna get that?

Of course, oh, I know they're getting it.

We talk about it a lot on this show.

I see it.

So, look at me.

I see that what's going on, and I tell you that,

and you don't want to source like that.

Come on,

I can make a living anywhere you want.

If

you know, you, I, you want to understand my mind, what I think, if you throw me in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, no claws,

no money, I come out from Atlantic Ocean with clothes and money.

This is how I trust myself.

This is who I am.

I don't see movies,

but I'm the person you're dealing now.

I can do things.

I don't need attention.

I don't need my name to be there.

I couldn't be very low profile like before and do things which benefit you and the country.

I didn't got no benefit

did you see me how I was emotion

it's 54 years old it's it's very heartbroken you know to come to that point

you betrayed me

why

you have a man I can die for you

why you don't just

Give me the hand said let me pull you

you don't need to drown I can help you.

I'm a normal human.

I love my kids.

I love my family.

I did everything for my kids and family.

Somebody who loved the kids and family, he would not hurt you.

Never.

Because when I saw that they jumping from 9-11, AD, third floor, people jumping, I saw, I don't care what they're saying with conspiracy.

I was thinking to kill that guy in my cell because he was happy seeing them.

I saw it was moment.

I saw saw a God.

I'm telling you, believe it or not, I was thinking to kill that guy, that terrorist guy in cell.

I believe it.

Come on.

I want to be happy.

People jumping, people who feed my kids, people who help me all the time.

I'm going to be happy.

Never.

Religion, I will ban my religion.

If they push me like that, I will ban.

I want to live a normal human being.

I'd rather be with my kids, normal, than be judged like that.

Oh, look at what he did, killed innocent people.

I don't have to be in a problem in a war.

War, it's a war.

War, it's a war,

but not the way they do it.

Hijacking a plan or blowing yourself in supermarket.

That's not a war.

Come on.

Well, we're wrapping up the interview.

Do you have anything in particular you want to say?

I hope right people listen this.

I don't want attention.

For me, it's quality of the people to hear this.

I'm not against nobody.

I'm against terrorists.

I was never double, never one side.

If I was double, I couldn't do a lot of things until today.

A lot.

But I'm proud who I am.

I proudly serve this country.

I deserve to be treated.

Just a little bit like a human.

Not too much.

Just a little bit.

I would.

I hope

everybody enjoys that.

Not taking wrong my interview.

Well, they're going to enjoy it.

Well, bless them.

Thank you for what you've done for the country.

Thank you for being here.

And

I can't wait to see that documentary hit.

Thank you very much.

I'm honored to be in your place.

It's an honor to have.

It's an honor.

I'll be very honest with you.

When I saw you shows, I said this is my dream place to be.

The way I never mentioned every code in the banks and stuff, one day you have to put something password.

I put my dream job, CIA.

So, this is who I was.

I'm a Muslim, but my dream job was CIA.

You might want to change those passwords now.

From now on, I have to.

Sean Ryan.

All right, Blah.

Thank you very much.

I really appreciate it, man.

I really appreciate it.

Take advantage of the EV lease incentive and leave the ordinary behind with an epic lineup of electric and hybrid vehicles at the ready.

And right now, qualified lessees of Dodge Charger Daytona, Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE, and Wrangler 4xE may be eligible for a 7,500 EV lease incentive through Stellantis Financial Services to be factored into their lease calculation.

When leased through Stellantis Financial Services, not all lessees will qualify.

This incentive is offered by a third party as a cap cost reduction and is subject to change without notice.

Lessee cannot claim EFI incentive on personal tax return.

Consult a tax professional for details and eligibility requirements.

Restrictions apply.

Contact your dealer for details.

Offer ends 930.