Mother Daughter Murders - Largo, Maryland

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This week, in Largo, Maryland, terror runs through this comfortable, leafy area as two different pairs of mothers and daughters are murdered.

But FBI profilers say they're not connected, even though local police think that they may have a serial killer on their hands.

Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

Yay!

Oh, yay, indeed, Jimmy.

Yay, indeed.

My name is James Petrogallo.

I'm here with my co-host.

I am Jimmy Wistman.

Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another absolutely insane edition of Small Town Murder.

We have a wild show for you today.

Just absolute madness going on in the burbs over here.

It is crazy stuff.

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You think small-town murder is crazy.

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This week, we're going to dip back into the disaster lot here for

crime and sports.

We're going to do some theme park disasters

and also some industrial disasters.

Stop getting on the roller coasters.

And then for small-town murder, it's prisoner dating game time.

Hey, it's that time of year again.

Everybody, I'm sure, is very excited.

We're going to line up four bachelors, four bachelorettes for Jimmy.

The only thing they have in common is they are all incarcerated for violent felonies.

So he's going to pick one.

He's going to to pick one of each based just on their descriptions that they put out there on their dating profiles.

And then he's going to get to find out what they actually did.

So choices have consequences.

And Jimmy's going to find that out.

So there we go.

Patreon.com slash crimeinsports.

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In addition to all that,

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Can't beat that.

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So check that out.

And you get a shout-out at the end of the show, too, where Jimmy will mispronounce your name.

We couldn't give you any more.

I'm telling you.

So that said, disclaimer time.

Here we go, everybody.

This is a comedy show.

It is.

We're comedians and jokes are going to be made and people are going to die.

You might think that's weird.

If you never heard the show before, you might go, what the hell are you going to do with that?

But there's certain little couple of rules you put out for ourselves that kind of make it a little more digestible.

I think you'll like it.

First First of all, we don't make fun of the victims or the victims' families.

Why, James?

Because we're assholes.

But we're not scumbags.

See how that works?

That's how it is.

It's

real easy to get on board with here.

That's it.

If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, you might not like the show.

But you might like the show because

you might go, this is what I'm looking for.

I don't want to hear someone go, and then her head was cut off and removed.

It's a little creepy, and it seems.

It's too much.

It's almost a little murder porny sometimes.

Not Bill Curtis.

We're not doing that.

No, we're not doing that.

Well, if I was Bill Curtis, I'd do it because I'd do it.

I'm not

Curtis.

We're not Bill Curtis.

That's what we say here.

So, yeah, there you go.

I think you're going to have a good time.

If not, no complaining later.

That said, I think it's time, everybody, to what do you say?

Clear the lungs and arms to the sky.

Let's all shout.

Shut up

and give me murder.

Let's do this, everybody.

Here we go.

Let's go on a trip, shall we?

We got it.

We're doing it.

We're going to Maryland this week.

We're going to the

middle panhandle in Maryland.

Maryland, if you look at it, is made up of three panhandles.

This is the middle one.

This is the, it's Largo, Maryland, L-A-R-G-O, and it's the southern panhandle there, the southern part of the middle panhandle.

It's about 30 minutes to Washington, D.C.,

about 45 minutes to Baltimore, and about 30 30 minutes to Bethesda, Maryland, our last Maryland episode, which was the serial killing schizophrenic cannibal.

You should listen to that episode if you haven't.

Episode 573.

This is in Prince George's County.

You can see, you know exactly where that was named after anyway.

They don't leave a lot to be questioned.

Will you a Prince?

Perhaps George.

Perhaps, maybe Prince George.

Area code 301.

Largo is named after the Largo Plantation that was owned by the Beale family.

And the plantation is believed to be named after Largo Bay in Scotland.

Got it.

So that's where that comes from.

It was sold to a guy in 1745.

And I don't know, they just took the name from there.

The Prince George's County was formed from land in two different counties, and they just kind of put it all together

on St.

George's Day, April 23rd, 1696.

Got a St.

Anna Prince.

This is lovely.

St.

Anna Prince.

So this is an old county, you know, almost a hundred years pre-revolutionary war.

So the county was named after Prince George of Denmark.

Yeah.

Which seems odd.

The husband of Princess Anne and the heir to the throne of England.

Okay.

So that worked.

So it's so weird how different countries would

have monarchs that weren't even born there.

It's a strange thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How do you do that?

Like Richard the lion-hearted was French.

He wasn't even English, but like he became king of England.

Yeah.

I think in Men in Tights, that's what Richard Lewis is playing, right?

I believe.

Probably, right?

Or is he playing his brother that's trying to overtake him while he's on the Crusades or some shit?

I don't remember.

I'm talking about Mel Brooks movies in historical context here.

This is probably not the best way to do it.

Movies were one of the best jokes in there was about Abraham Lincoln,

who didn't even exist.

Yeah.

Didn't even exist yet.

One of the best ones was a bunch of guys rapping over

Dave Chappelle busting a rap.

Okay.

So hey,

reviews of this town here.

Let's find out what other people think here.

This four stars is the first review.

I've been an active member of my community for many years.

Largo is a nice community in Maryland that has remained civil for extended periods of time.

What is that?

I don't know what that means.

You know, we can go two, three years without savaging each other in the streets with clubs and fucking machetes and shit.

Civil, For Christ's sake, guys.

What are we talking about?

Three stars, a relatively quiet neighborhood.

Food places could be better.

Okay,

school system.

Overall, it's a nice place to live, but it could be better.

Which is the ultimate three-star review.

Not bad, but could be better.

That sounded one way, and now here's another three-star review.

The community of Largo is growing.

Exclamation point.

Multiple communities are available for luxury apartment-style living.

And Largo is about 25 minutes from D.C.

and Bowie or Bowie or Bowie.

Bowie.

I don't know.

Great shopping communities with stores such as JCPenney.

Wow.

Is there a Sears there too?

Penny?

And the last Montgomery Award.

That's where JCPenney is now is there?

Because it sure as shit isn't anywhere else.

There's still one in Phoenix.

Oh, is there?

Nearby my house.

Yeah.

It's in the mall.

Oh, okay.

DSW, got to have that.

Oh, I didn't even know that still existed.

That's what I was going to say.

That's insane.

And Ashley Furniture are located in close proximity.

Oh, so the town's fine.

They got an Ashley and a JCPenney, so you should be able to get by.

You got mass-produced garbage furniture.

Man.

Wegmans, a premier grocery experience, in quotes.

What?

Grocery experience.

Who has ever called the grocery store an experience?

I think Wegmans calls it an experience.

That's why it's in quotes probably.

Yeah, that's all I can imagine.

I located in the city to accommodate the varying dietary needs and tastes of patrons.

This place is definitely worth a shot.

Okay.

That is not a ringing endorsement.

And then here's two very different two stars here.

Or here's another three star that's very different than those three stars.

There were several crimes committed in the area a few years ago, including robberies, invasion of privacies, and even a murder.

Since then, I believe the sense of safety in the community has improved.

An added plus is the fact that several police officers do live in the area.

They're talking about our case today, by the way.

Oh, really?

Nothing else happens here.

This is a really like

leafy, suburban,

you know, upper-middle-class type of place.

Like, it's not a

or, you know, blue-collar, but, you know, professional jobs type of deal.

Nurses and people like that live here, cops, nurses, that's that sort of thing.

So it's not an area that's used to extreme bouts of violence.

Yeah,

it is fascinating how that group of people,

most of the time, keep it between the lines, but when they veer outside the lines, holy fuck, do they drive it off a cliff?

Shit gets crazy.

You end up in a small town murder episode.

That's what happened.

That's the whole thing.

That's always the whole thing.

You just said the point of why I came up with the idea for this show.

That was exactly it.

It was like, wow, small town people, everything's fine.

But when they snap, holy shit, it's on.

It's on now.

And then finally, two stars, no nice restaurants in the area, and ones that are, don't stay for very long.

I guess ones that are nice.

Area does not contain the nicest, friendliest customer service, nor does it provide kind or patient customers.

So

both the people behind the counter and in front of it are both assholes, is what they're saying.

So it's going to be rough.

People in this town, 12,003.

So So not a big place to be that close to two major metropolises here.

54.3% women, which is very high for

any place over a thousand people, really.

It's usually pretty close to even.

Median age here is 39.8.

It's about a year older than the national average.

It's about 40% married here.

It's usually 50-50.

Got about an average divorce rate here, that sort of thing.

Race in this town, 3.9% white, 86.6 percent black three percent asian three point four percent hispanic so

it's like a um mostly black

wait what's it it's 86.6 percent black black really yes yeah 3.9 percent white wow yeah it's a it's like a

you know upper middle class black suburb basically i like it would be the best way to put it uh average unemployment here median household income is way higher than the national average 88 799

So that's usually about $69,000 in

the rest of the country.

This is marvelous.

It's a very nice area.

The cost of living here, 100 being regular average here, it's 121.

It's a little bit high.

And the housing is 120.

out of 100.

So it's very high.

But the median home cost here, $310,000.

So that's actually lower than the national average.

Not bad.

Not bad.

So if we've convinced you, damn it, you're going to largo we have for you some information here with the largo maryland real estate report

average two-bedroom rental here goes for nineteen hundred eighty dollars that is high excessively expensive that might be seven hundred dollars more yeah it's really expensive so i don't know if you're renting that's not the best place you might want to buy uh here is house number one.

It's a condo

or an apartment, but I think they're calling it a condo because you can buy it.

Nobody wants to buy an apartment, but you'll buy a condo.

Yeah, you'll buy a townhouse, but you're not buying a fucking apartment.

Either way, you hear people fucking through the walls.

So

same shit.

And if your AC goes out, it's fucking on you.

It's on you.

This is a one-bedroom, one-bath, 787-square-foot joint.

And it's just, it's just a room with a bedroom.

I mean, it's really not a big place.

You know, you don't get any land or anything.

$135,000 for that, though.

That's not so bad.

Which is, yeah, it's a small place, but if

you're a single person looking for something reasonable.

You need some money and you need a little fuck pad.

That's pretty cool.

A little something on the side here.

Oh, for

people in D.C., I'm sure there's plenty of fuck pads going on.

That's probably why the rents are so high.

I'll bet you're right.

This is like some sort of

D.C.

Dalleon suburb where they're like, oh, all the apartments in Largo are owned by Congressmen.

Let's see.

Here is a four-bedroom, two-bath, 1,600 square foot.

Nice little family, nice family home.

Garage.

Single-car garage.

Oh, I like that little spot right there with the slanted roof.

It's nice, bushy, nice bushes and grass and all that kind of thing.

Eclectic.

0.25 acres, so not a huge lot.

$439,900 for that, though.

Okay, that's a bit steep.

It's a little pricey.

And then here's a nice brick house.

This is four-bedroom, three-bath, 1,720 square feet.

It's all brick.

Yeah.

Pretty nice.

Nice hardwood floors.

Well appointed.

Nice backyard.

This house is $535,000, though.

That's a lot of money.

Just had a price cut, too.

Oh, that's good.

Things to do in this town is the, I didn't find a lot to do around here, honestly.

I think you're so close to Baltimore and D.C.,

you just know to get in the car and drive somewhere.

Yeah, I found the downtown Largo Festival.

Sounds great.

And their mission, it says, is through engaging cultural experiences, interactive activities, timely resources, and inclusive programming, we aim to bring upscale, an upscale experience, foster connections, inspire collaboration.

It's just every buzzword that exists.

Yeah.

Foster connections, inspire collaboration.

It sounds like somebody's fucking resume.

Encourage growth.

Yeah.

I hate that shit.

I hate when they...

A lot of opinions.

Stewardship, they use words like that.

It's just

these

buzzwords, promote a sense of pride among residents, all that kind of shit.

You can expect live music, food trucks, art activations.

I don't know what that is.

What is an activate?

Activate the art.

Why?

That's scary.

Retail vendors, game and experience trucks.

Those trucks you go in and shop.

Yeah.

Stupid things for teenage boys.

DIY and urban garden demos and a farmer's market.

And then there is the Montpelier Farms Fall Festival.

Hell yeah.

Montpelier is the capital of Vermont, so I don't know what the hell they got going on here.

Must be a person, right?

I'm not sure.

Yeah, Montpelier's got to be somebody's last name.

It says, welcome to an exciting day at our fall festival, packed with fun and perfect for photo ops.

That's what this farm is.

It's just like, take, come here and your Instagram page will be popping.

Yeah.

Savor delicious treats, refreshing drinks, and shop at our farm markets.

Dive into the farm festivities with adorable animals, exhilarating playgrounds.

Exhilarating playgrounds?

What a weird combination of words.

Slide is windy.

Oof, a trike track, trike track, barnyard basketball.

Got me.

I'm scared.

I don't know.

And

giant hill slides, ride-on pig races.

Okay.

Yeah.

And so much more.

There's also

a seven-acre interactive corn maze.

Yeah.

A pumpkin corn maze, hay rides, animals,

what else?

Kid corral, a corn pit.

What the fuck is a corn pit?

I suppose they

try it out and let you like a ball pit, but just like you swim in it and you're like, yeah.

Corn nuts?

Corn, I don't know.

Pig races, puzzle mania, pumpkin bowling.

Uh-huh.

Soon bowling with pumpkins.

A roping range.

Right.

A penalty paddock for everybody fucking up while you're doing the corn pit, I guess.

You've got to be put in the penalty paddock.

A hay in play.

I don't know.

I don't know.

A tug-of-war, a mini-hill slide, photo ops, and a public bonfire.

That's what they got for you.

Crime rate in this town.

What we are interested in here.

Property crime about one quarter above the national average.

A little bit of property crime, violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault.

The Mount Rushmore of crime is slightly above average as well, but pretty close to the average.

Wow.

Wow.

Yeah, slightly above, but pretty close to the average.

Now, that said,

let's talk about some murder.

Let's do

holy balls.

Do we have a wild case today?

Okay.

And not even a case, a story, an unfolding event.

It's nuts.

Let's start in 2008.

Yeah.

Okay.

2008, just to set the scene of Largo,

Very,

I've said it in the opening.

Leafy is a good way to put it.

A lot of trees.

Everybody's got a yard.

Yeah.

Happy suburb.

Kids riding bikes and shit like that.

It's, you know, how the place is just booming.

Oh, it's going to happen.

Cone's set up in the cul-de-sac so the kids can play.

You know what I'm saying?

One of those joints.

Turtle with the flag.

Slow

play.

He's there.

Oh, you know it.

That fucking, that little turd.

It's on the sign, you mean?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

My neighbor had one.

He's like a 65-year-old man, had no kids ever,

and had that fucking sign out just to slow people down.

That's ridiculous.

I used to like watch the old man.

By my house when I was a kid, there was a deaf kid area, it said.

Yeah, yeah.

Deaf kid area.

And the graphic was an open mouth with sound coming out of it.

Like a face with sound coming, and a kid just playing with a ball turned the other direction.

But like silhouettes of that.

That's what that means.

You'll yell and he'll ignore you, I guess.

So

now, this area includes there's Largo and there's also Upper Marlborough, which is kind of considered the same thing as Largo.

Like a couple of those houses in the real estate report were from Upper Marlborough.

They're all connected, these little places, and Bowie or Bowie, or whatever the fuck it is.

Whatever it is.

Like I said, not a rough area.

This is, you know, kind of

professional people live here, type of deal.

One of the people living here fits the bill for that is Velma Patrice Artist Butler.

Wow.

Or artist.

I'm sorry, artists, like Artis Gilmore, the old basketball player.

One S.

Artist Butler.

Vilma is her first name, V-I-L-M-A.

2008, she's 46 years old.

And she comes from a good family, has a sister and two brothers.

And she was married to a man named Timothy, but they divorced.

So she's a single mother, has three kids, works hard, always thought to like all the neighbors, neat, keeps her lawn cut.

Hell yeah.

In suburbia, that's the ultimate compliment that you can get from your neighbors is the house always, they keep the house looking nice.

That's all that you know about your neighbors.

It's either the people who look like slobs or the people who keep their yard nice or whatever.

I don't know my neighbors.

People that are keeping my property value up and the people that are a blight on it.

Yeah, exactly.

People you want to leave and the people you'd like to stay.

So but she's considered very friendly, always waves at all the neighbors, just a nice lady.

Um, her three kids are Christopher, Christina, and Nicholas.

And um, she has a couple different jobs.

She's a nurse, first of all.

That's her main job.

And apparently, at some point, also, I don't know if it's at this time, but sometime around here, she was working for Toner Express USA as a business development manager.

So, she does that, she does nursing, so she's a professional lady.

Now in 2008, her daughter, Christina, had just left for college.

By the way, she named one kid Christopher and one kid Christina.

I remember that.

Yeah, that was crazy.

Chris, Chris, and Nick.

Chris, Chris, and Nick.

So she was a big Christmas lady.

She loves it.

Yeah.

Oh,

I don't know.

That's all I can imagine.

St.

Nick and a bunch of Chris.

Christmas and St.

Nick and all that shit.

So anyway, her daughter had just left for college, so she's kind of alone in the house now.

She's empty nesting.

at 46.

So she's raised her kids upright, got them off to college, and now she's like, ha,

now I can sit back and relax.

And unfortunately, she doesn't get to do that for too long.

On June 24th, 2008, at 4:45 a.m.,

firefighters are called to the area.

They arrive around that time.

Neighbors had called and also told them that not only is the house on fire,

around 4 a.m.

before the fire started, I heard popping noises as well.

Like bullets.

Some kind of popping noises.

You know, this is a nice neighborhood because they don't refer to them as gunshots.

They refer to them as popping noises.

I don't know how much jiffy pop she's got in that house.

You know what I mean?

Who knows?

Anything could be possible.

But I've lived in shit neighborhoods where any popping noise is a gunshot, and you know that.

And then you live in nice neighborhoods and you go, what was that?

What was that noise?

Was that a gunshot or was that fireworks?

Yeah.

So

they get there.

There's no sign of any forced entry, by the way.

That's one thing.

So that's a good sign.

The house, when they get in there, is ransacked, but not in a frenzied way.

Okay.

You know, like if you picture in your head like a crackhead at four o'clock in the morning, just tearing shit up, ripping drawers out and dumping them and shit like that.

Yeah.

That's not how this has gone down at all.

It's

there's things missing, but it's very, things are taken one thing from over here, one thing from over there.

Very specific and

seemed like somebody was looking for particular things

at the time.

Now, they find Vilma in the house.

She has been shot execution style in the back of the head.

Damn it.

Which is

it's not like she's gone astray of some drug dealers or something.

She's a 46-year-old fucking nurse, you know, single mother nurse, and she's got no involvement in anything crazy.

So this is is really weird.

They don't think it's a robbery gone wrong or somebody that was really mad at her.

It looked like somebody went in here to murder her and then took a couple of very specific things that they wanted on the way out.

It's very odd.

And the house is intentionally set on fire afterwards, which makes sense.

Normally, what a coincidence would it be if you went into a house, stole some shit, murdered somebody, left, and then an electrical fire started 20 minutes later.

That'd be remarkable.

Or the candle that she left outstairs.

She left it too close to the curtains.

That's not your fault.

Yeah, it's weird.

So the investigation, they get into it, and there's no leads.

There's no forensic evidence in the house whatsoever.

There's no suspects.

There's no motive

because they don't think the things that were stolen amount to murder motive.

That's

robbery

opportunity.

That kind of thing.

No forensic evidence.

No fingerprints, no hairs, no fibers, no, which the fire helped a lot with that.

Yeah, no bullet, huh?

No, they got a bullet.

That's it, though.

Okay.

All right.

So that's all they have.

Anyway, they have nothing to match it to.

So just a dead nurse and

some popping noises.

They have nothing else to go on here.

So this is in June, and then months go by, and nothing else happens in 2008.

It's just a very, very cold case.

So by fall of 2008, here, the next, you know, that fall, a few months later, now more shit starts to happen around this area in Upper Marlborough and in Largo.

There's a series of burglaries that are just mind-boggling that people can't wrap their heads around.

This is not people breaking in, stealing a couple of things.

This is our specifically targeted burglaries that are very strange.

They would know exactly what they would take.

They'd take electronics, TVs, that kind of thing.

But they'd also take weird shit that burglars don't take.

Like what?

Number one, car keys, which sometimes a burglar might take that for a later thing.

Also, personal photographs.

Oh, wow.

They'd go through their photo albums and there'd be pictures missing from the photo albums.

Weird.

Think about how much time someone has to spend in a house to go through your photo albums and take the pictures they want.

Yeah, right.

Yeah,

actually look at the ball and go, I'll take that one and I'll take this one.

Just weirdly personal items that are not resale.

They don't have any resale value.

Just made no sense at all.

Just a memory.

Exactly.

The things that are only valuable to us have been taken.

And the car keys is like, perhaps they can come back and take the car later.

But if they don't, in the event they don't, that's such a fucking nightmare to have to go to the dealership and

get remade.

Oh, it's the worst.

It's a nightmare.

You don't want that.

And they're so expensive.

They're so goddamn expensive, especially when everything was actual keys.

You know what I mean?

They were always those weird keys.

Yes,

exactly.

It didn't look like a key.

It was like a square key with a groove through it that you would

have to hit.

You hit the button and it would pop open.

You had a Volkswagen like that.

Little switchblade.

Pop open.

Stupid little blade key.

So the burglaries all happened between 10 and 3 a.m.

as well.

These weren't during the day when families were out, people at school, people at work.

If it was 10 a.m.

and 3 p.m., that would make a lot of sense because that's when a lot of these burglaries happen.

But this was when they were asleep.

So this person went into people's houses and meticulously went through all their shit for hours while they slept.

Wandering around while you're sleeping.

That is disturbing at best.

Holy

city pap is just humming.

Yeah, hopefully, maybe that's why you don't hear anything.

So.

Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you how to dress better with Stitch Fix.

Oh,

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But basically, it avoids, and the 10 a.m.

and 3 a.m.

is an interesting thing because it's people that work night shift don't come home until 5 or 6 a.m.

Right.

So it's like avoiding those people.

It's a very specific time they're doing it.

So through the fall of 2008, into the winter of 2008 and early 2009, these burglaries became worse.

What do you mean worse?

Well, it started out with people waking up and just finding items missing and wondering what happened in their homes.

But now there's more burglaries, ones where families are being woken up by a masked man holding a gun to their head now.

Oh, my.

Home invasion.

That's full-on home invasion at that point.

And forcing them to give out over their debit cards and PIN numbers.

And then he would take their car keys and drive away in their car.

In their car.

In their car.

Walked there, Ubered, rode the bus.

No, it's too late.

It's crazy.

So, yeah, you wake up at 2 a.m.

with a gun to your head.

Give me your debit card.

Give me your PIN number.

And then you watch your car drive away.

Oh.

But you're alive.

Yeah, but it's still like

crazy violating because when you come back in an email,

shattered.

Your whole sense of security is shattered at that point, obviously.

So, this is what's been going on in this neighborhood.

And we'll talk about some of the specific cases that happen because even more disturbing things happen than just being than just the give me your pin number.

Yeah.

And we'll talk about it.

Some very disturbing things that get put on video.

That's insane.

Okay.

January of 2009.

Let's talk about the Lofton family.

L-O-F-T-E-N, like Kenny, the old baseball player.

Didn't he have an O-N?

Oh, he was O-N, wasn't he?

Yeah, he was.

Yeah, he might have been.

This is E-N.

Kirk Lofton is the dad.

Karen Lofton is the mom, Kirk and Karen,

both Ks.

They have sons as well named Kirk Jr.

Yeah.

and Keon, K-I-O-N.

And then they have a daughter named Carissa as well.

Carissa's the youngest.

She's born in 1992.

So she's a teenager at this point in time.

And Carissa, man, she's a fucking fighter, this Carissa.

She's had some serious problems.

While she was very young, like toddler, she had open heart surgery to repair a valve problem.

There's nothing sadder than

a small child all in a surgical.

That's the saddest fucking thing in the world.

It's horrifying.

Any small child going under for surgery.

They just don't look right in a hospital bed.

No.

They just don't.

They're too little.

It's just

the tubes that really fuck it all up.

They're in the middle of doing a very adult thing, and it's creepy.

It would be like watching a kid.

It would be like watching a kid

extract ore from a mine or something.

You shouldn't be doing that.

You're too little to do that.

You're like four.

That's too little.

And any baby having heart surgery, it's like that should be reserved for a 58-year-old man who smoked, drank, and ate bacon for the last 30 years.

Led a shit life and is a dick, too.

Jesus, and this poor kid

hasn't even had any opportunity to fuck this heart up.

No,

it's as strange as watching a kid jackhammering out the road in front of your house.

Why is he doing that?

That's weird.

Jesus Christ, David.

Your diet is weakening.

Jesus, come on.

You had shit in your pants for two hours.

You got to stop.

But Carissa came back stronger than ever, though.

She recovered from this, and

she is known as having a really good spirit and a real, you know,

way about her.

And I think that'll, that'll do that to you if you know that you've overcome something.

Yeah, that'll do that.

And also teach you how short fucking life is and

just enjoy it and have a great time.

And you've been told how lucky you are since your whole life, also.

I think that might make you feel like you shouldn't even be here.

You shouldn't even be here right now.

No, so the family at this point in 2008, early 2009, Kirk Sr.

had moved to Georgia because because he and Karen had broken up.

Okay.

So Kirk Sr.

had moved away, and I don't know if they waited till the kids kind of got old enough because two of the kids are out at college and Carissa is planning on college and going to go soon.

And Carissa is going to move down to Georgia to go to college,

where her dad is.

So that's the plan.

So at this point, though, Karen is a single mother with three kids because he's all the way down there.

She's a nurse as well

here.

One of her colleagues described her as probably one of the best nurses of her time.

Her time.

Her time.

She's the Willie Maze of nurses.

A real generational nurse.

Yeah, we all know about her.

The next generation looks up to her, but that's how they're looking at her at her job.

That's an interesting choice of words, but all right.

I'll take it.

Weird, right?

I mean, it's a strange thing to say.

She was really, really obsessive about home security.

Yeah.

After Kirk Sr.

moved out, out, especially.

She became very, very into home security.

And

even Kirk said when he was there, when he would leave the house, she would check the back door, check the windows, make sure everything was locked up.

The windows?

The windows, make sure they're locked.

Everything.

This is in the 10,800 block of Southall Drive here.

Now, on January 26th, 2009, there is a 911 call, and Carissa is the one making it.

Okay.

The teenage daughter.

Okay.

She's so fucking polite.

This is what makes it even more heartbreaking here.

She's on 911.

You hear 911 calls all the time and they're like, yeah, what the fuck?

Get up, hurry up.

What are you doing?

She says, quote, ma'am, I've been shot.

Carissa's been shot.

Yes.

And she refers to the 911 operator as ma'am, which is just insanely polite for a teenager.

Ma'am, I've been shot.

My mother has been shot.

I'm bleeding to death.

Please hurry.

I'm bleeding to death.

She recognizes that.

Yeah, she's bleeding out.

She says, please hurry.

So obviously the cops are rushed over there.

It's a two-story, nice home.

Yeah.

You know, really nice.

And they got there within five minutes, the cops, too.

Less than five minutes they got there.

Number one, the front door is locked.

Oh, stop.

Okay.

Front door is locked.

No signs of forced entry.

Obviously, there's nothing broken and anything like that.

They do find a window on the side of the house that is closed but unlocked.

Okay.

Okay.

Now, an officer crawls through the window because they're banging on the door.

Nobody's answering.

Nobody's answering.

Oh, God.

So there's a cop, gun drawn, crawling through the window.

He goes to go open the front door to let the other cops in.

So they gather themselves all together.

They go through the house room by room.

And they see nothing.

They see nothing.

Nothing is ransacked or anything like that.

Then they find that both Carissa and her mother are shot to death.

They're both dead.

Carissa's.

Oh, Carissa died.

Carissa died, and that means she was bleeding to death.

She knew.

She knew what was going on here.

They've both been shot dead.

And,

yeah, detectives arrive at the scene a short time after this, and they call detectives right away, homicide.

They found Karen, mom, had been crouched down in a corner of her bedroom trying to protect herself.

She was in just balled up, don't hurt me type of thing, you know, in her own bedroom.

It's horrifying.

She'd been shot and killed in the upper portion of the home in her bedroom.

And they conclude that Carissa had been shot in her own bed.

Her body was found under the covers and everything.

She got shot, called 911, probably had her phone next to her, called 911, and never got out of bed, though.

Oh, Jesus.

Bled out in bed.

So

the cops are looking around here.

Like I said, no signs of forced entry, just a one unlocked window.

The alarm system had been disengaged

at 3, I believe, 26 in the morning.

So it was engaged at some point last night.

So it's been disengaged.

So something had to disengage it.

Something had to happen to make the alarm go off at 3.30 in the morning, which is an odd time for

two ladies in the house to just turn alarms off.

Yeah, you don't,

unless it goes off, you don't shut it off.

Exactly.

exactly.

And it was just completely turned off, not just, yeah, not just turn the actual alarm off.

They did find six spent shell casings from a Glock 17 handgun

scattered throughout the house.

So not even right by there.

They were kind of all over the place, which is also odd.

You'd imagine they would be where the gunshots were, you know, where they happened.

Nothing appeared to be stolen.

Okay.

So this just makes no fucking sense.

This is just

someone came in here,

brutalized the, butchered these two women, shot them to death in their own bedrooms, and then just left.

Just, they felt like doing that.

More than the other?

Did they both get three?

Do we know?

I'm not sure the exact amounts of each, but it's...

But six.

Well, we've only got six shells.

That doesn't mean there's

could be more.

Yeah.

Right.

Could be more, could be less wounds.

Who knows?

So they're like, why would this happen?

Why would someone come in here in the middle of the night to kill these two who neither of them have any enemies or anything anything like that it's not like they're you know mom's a nurse right she's not a you know she doesn't like deal coke on the side or run a some sort of bookie empire or something and she owes people money like it's nothing like that she's a normal lady so it makes no sense at all they did feel like that the intruder must have fled through that open window but like however they got in is irrelevant at this point and we'll try to figure it out but we think that's how he got out because the front door is locked so he couldn't have left and locked the door so let's hope that cop was smart enough to use fucking gloves so he can fingerprint that fucking window.

I would hope so, but who the hell knows here?

So they also

end up getting no fingerprints.

So whether

nothing.

Either the killer wore gloves or

that guy's belly wiped him clean.

Wiped it all clean.

Yeah.

So

they're wondering, is that how they got in through the same window?

Was the entrance and exit the same spot?

Now, their security system had been activated that night, but was turned off within minutes of the break-in.

Oh, so it did, it went off.

No, it didn't.

It was turned off before any went off.

Oh, okay.

All right.

So they did not, they don't know what that means.

Karen or Carissa had to disarm the security system for this to happen, or they, or the intruder had to know how to disarm the security system, one of the two.

So they were wondering also, if that didn't happen, how did they get into the house without setting off the alarm?

Right.

So was it,

you know, it's a weird thing.

So

the investigators, they learned that Karen, Karen's a school nurse for Christ's sake,

can't go,

always,

always the target of massive retribution, a school nurse, obviously.

Poor lady.

She and Carissa had gone to church on Sunday, January 25th, and Carissa had later gone to work at her job at the Golden Corral.

Oh, Carissa.

Carissa's last day on earth was church and golden corral.

Golly.

She had to smell golden corral.

Yeah.

And then, oh, man.

Family members said she was seen leaving the restaurant at approximately 9 p.m.

when her shift ended.

Okay, yeah.

Now, they're unable to figure out how Carissa got home from work.

Usually her mother picks her up, but it doesn't seem like Karen picked her up that night, so they don't know what's going on here.

So police at this point are focusing on someone who knows them at this point.

Yeah.

They're saying this is a friends or family close to these people type of murder because nothing has been taken, no signs of forced entry, no motive, no evidence of theft.

This is someone had it in for them in some way, shape, or form.

Obviously, because I mean, they say it's not just random.

The police chief said the area is pretty quiet.

This is not normal for us here.

Now, the first thing they look at is, we'll talk about is the husband, the exercise senior.

But he's

he was in Georgia, so definitely not him for sure.

So that was the first one.

Oh, marriage ended.

Where's the husband?

Oh, he's in Georgia.

Okay, fuck.

Now, there also,

12 days earlier, about five miles away, there was another double homicide.

Not the first one, not Vilma, a different one.

Another double homicide in a gated community of million-dollar homes in Upper Marlboro.

Oh,

so

very nice area.

In that case, Eunice Baugh, who is 36, and Seth Idu, who is 40, were killed in their home there.

Seth had been stabbed to death, and Eunice had died from a gunshot wound to the head.

Fascinating.

Separate weapons, separate means of murder, which is odd.

Now, according to the police chief, despite public speculation of this, there's nothing to indicate that these are connected.

These four, yeah, these two separate murders, not connected.

The guy's name is Chief Hilton.

He says, This is an isolated incident.

This is not a serial killer.

We're pulling out all the resources, doing everything forensically that we can.

We just have two assholes.

They're different assholes, but they're, yeah, two assholes.

Two assholes nonetheless.

Now, Keon becomes a suspect.

20-year-old son becomes a suspect, which is strange.

He, as they bring him in for an interrogation, yeah.

And, you know, he said, you're asleep at your girlfriend's house.

You get a call that your mother and sister have been murdered.

You race to your house to find police tape and body bags.

That's what he said.

He's like, this is crazy.

He said it felt like a nightmare or a dream.

Now, during the interrogation, the officers let him hear a snippet of Carissa's 911 call,

which is horrible.

And then they accused him of causing it.

Ah, they said, you're the reason why.

Welcome home.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And he will later say, Keon, quote, anyone who's accused of anything they haven't done, they're going to be upset.

When I'm in the interrogation room and I'm hearing them accusing me and I'm just trying to process, like, did this really happen?

Like, did my mother and sister really just get murdered?

Are you guys really accusing me of doing this?

Yeah.

Yeah.

He said, I was upset.

Like, you're not going to state it's me.

I didn't have anything to do with it.

You can do whatever you need to do.

It's not going to be me.

He said, that was his

official stance.

Yeah.

Say whatever the fuck you want, but I didn't do it.

So,

which is what innocent people say because his alibi completely checks out.

Okay.

He was at his girlfriend's house all night with multiple witnesses there to confirm it, not just his girlfriend.

So people that don't live there even.

So it's not Keon.

They really thought it was Keon.

Really?

Now, the evidence here, they don't have any.

No fingerprints, no DNA, no witnesses, no motive.

Just shells.

Just shells and two dead ladies who never did a fucking thing to anybody.

So it makes no sense.

Kirk Sr.

said this is just heartbreaking to be a 16-year-old girl and be in the comfort of your own bed and a monster like that comes and takes your life from you.

He said that

whoever did this had to have known about Karen's security habits as well.

Had to.

He said she took that really seriously.

She would make sure the back door is locked, things of that sort.

She would make sure the windows are locked.

She was always a stickler for those things.

He said, I know how safe Karen was.

Karen would not let anyone in the house at 2.36 in the morning without, she would have had the alarm on.

Yeah.

So, yeah, she's not turning that alarm off at 2.30 in the morning for a stranger.

It's not happening.

Now they start looking at

how sophisticated this killer might have been.

Because at first they thought it was just a family member, and that's why it was, you know, if Keon came over and just turned the alarm off, that would make all the sense in the world.

We know it's not that.

So now they're like, do we have somebody that's sophisticated enough to know about the security system?

Right.

And not even a theft.

That's what I mean.

Right.

Just for murder.

The mob doesn't do hits this well.

They really don't.

This is like crazy.

So they said someone is that sophisticated to force Karen to disarm the alarm system, knowing it's on, knowing her habits.

They said, but

that is not what people who break into houses do.

It's just not that level of sophistication.

You know, only an ex-husband or something would do that.

And you don't murder just willy-nilly like that.

It's not their

to kill a nurse and a school nurse, for Christ's sake, that lady

always retires.

You know what I mean?

Yes.

The longevity of a school nurse, they stick around so long.

So long.

No.

They stay till they don't know what medicines are when the kids have.

We had a really old one, and some kid had, like, I don't remember what kind of medicine, but she wouldn't.

No, she wouldn't.

It was like a prescription he had to take, and she wouldn't give it to him because she didn't know what it was.

It was like a big deal.

He had to get his mom to come in, and like, it was crazy.

Well, in her defense, James, she's been around since Laudenum was a fucking.

Yeah,

that's the problem.

That was it.

She's like, I was going to give you a bottle of laudanum, but it just, you know.

I had cocaine

bottle back here, but I don't know why you want dymatap.

That was pepto-bismal.

Do you want to feel good or not?

That's what I'm asking you.

Because I can help you.

March of 2009 comes around.

Okay.

Now, Dolores Smith DeWitt is her name here.

We'll talk about her, D-E-W-I-T-T.

She's born September 8th, 1966, making her about 42 years old here in March of 2009.

She is, guess what?

Her profession is.

Is she a nurse?

She's a nurse.

Yeah.

She is a nurse.

She's the oldest child of six brothers and sisters.

She grew up in North Carolina.

She married her high school sweetheart.

She worked through college to become a licensed practical nurse.

She then remarried and enrolled in college and

completed her bachelor's degree in nursing.

So she's doing all that.

Her daughter said, mom's motto is always, do what you got to do now so you can do what you want to do later.

That's a solid fucking motto.

Probably the greatest thing you can teach your kids

is do shit you don't want to do and later on you'll be able to do shit that you feel like doing.

Absolutely.

100%.

Instant gratification is a much shittier gratification.

I assure you, anybody that you're embarrassed seeing you do what what you're doing will not remember this when it's time for you to do what you want to do.

Absolutely fucking not.

This is a hard thing.

This is the number one thing that's impossible for kids to process, though.

Yeah.

Because you don't have any concept of time in a long fashion.

If you're 16, you can't think about 25 years from now.

You're not even 25 years old.

How the hell are you supposed to imagine that?

25 years?

Fuck, I haven't even done that yet.

I want to have fun now.

I'm only 16, and this feels like fucking forever.

Yeah.

And a lot of people.

I'm 15, too.

A lot of teenagers think, well, I'm not going to live to be 30.

I don't know where they think they're going to disappear to.

Crazy age.

It sounds like, oh, Christ, they'll never get that far.

So it's real weird.

But anyway, they said that she, that's what she did.

That's what.

what Dolores did here.

And she said, her daughter said she always put her kids first.

She saved every penny she had so she could get decent housing and stuff like that.

Her brother Robert said he remembered when she scraped together $3,000 years ago to buy a Nissan so she could drive her kids around.

And when she stopped renting and bought a home in the Largo area where they lived, she was very proud because she had to really scrimp and save, but she wanted to provide her kids with a nice environment, with a good school district and all that good stuff.

What everybody wants of their kids.

Really the hope.

Yeah.

That's what you're going for.

So both daughters had graduated from high school.

She's got two daughters.

We'll talk about them.

They both graduated from high school, but live at home

still.

Okay.

Now,

they go to school, they have jobs, she has a job.

So there's all sorts of, you know, they're three adult women in the house, so they're going in a lot of different directions.

Yeah.

So a lot of times they're not home.

You know, they don't have a lot of family dinners because they all have a bunch of shit they're doing and stuff like that.

But every few weeks they'd get together and go shopping and get their hair done, Courtney said.

Nice.

Both daughters and mom.

Yeah.

So like once a month they do that.

Now, Ebony is the oldest daughter.

She's 19.

She graduated from Largo High in 2007, and she was working at Comcast in Largo.

Comcast, the cable company there, and had recently received her medical assistant certificate or certification from Sands College in Washington, D.C.

She's following mom's shit.

She's following mom's stuff, and she's working her way through school and stuff like that.

These are kids that have been given a solid background of how you do things.

You know what I mean?

The blueprint is, you don't take shit from me.

You go get a job and work your way through it.

Exactly.

You'll figure it out, make your own money.

It's a good thing.

So Ebony, everybody says she's the life of the party.

She's real lively and has a lot of energy.

And that's kind of her

deal.

Everybody knows her as that, which is good for a nurse.

That's great.

Yeah.

You like a nurse with some energy.

Oh, boy.

Fucking, they come in all dour and shit.

You're like, listen, I'm stressed.

I think for time this is.

Yeah.

Pretty sure I'm dying.

Can you pretend that life is good for me, please?

I wouldn't come in here if I didn't think I was dying.

So you know what

the deal is.

Fix it.

Make me not die.

I bet that's got to be hard, though, because I bet there's some people who are like, What are you all fucking cheery for?

I'm dying over here.

So you really can't win, I think, if you're in.

You're a fucking smile.

Yeah.

I think after a while, that's why they just play it down the middle because

it's as big as my fucking prostate.

Perfect.

I can't.

Huge.

I got to blockage, you see.

About the size of your smile.

So they describe her as that.

They said that she was also, she has a serious person.

She's dating as well.

So she's in a serious relationship, real close to her family and all that kind of thing.

Now, Courtney is 17

here, and that's the younger daughter.

So

she's there too.

Now, Dolores had been a nurse for nine years at Bradford Oaks Nursing and Rehabilitation Center in Clinton, which is, I believe, a lot of elderly patients is what she deals with.

Yeah.

Everybody said she's very passionate about working with elderly patients.

And

yeah, they said that she would go,

she'd show up at work even if she, you know, because she had migraines sometimes.

They said she'd show up at work even if she had a migraine.

She wasn't missing her day because she had people counted on her.

She was very responsible here.

And she would basically go all around the

the center there where she worked.

Always singing

songs from the gospel station she had on.

Oh.

So she's belting out Jesus tunes

while you're there.

So I figure

fluffing a pillow.

Yeah.

Just singing it.

So now the DeWitts were robbed.

burglarized in December of 2008, this family.

Their neighbor, Kay Walker, who lives across the street, said that it was about December 2008, and this neighbor said, quote, they had purchased a Wii, a brand new television, and one other item, an electronic item.

And about a week later, those items were stolen.

Yep.

They said someone had broken in through a window and only those items were stolen.

Only the coolest electronics of 2007.

The shit they just got.

Right, brand new.

All the new shit was stolen.

None of the other stuff was stolen, which is odd.

So, yeah, that's really a who's who of 2008 technology there.

It really was.

I bought a couple TVs in 2008 because my kid threw the fucking Wii controller through it.

I remember hearing about that.

That was fucking funny.

Well, that was when you were first kind of getting people were buying the flat screens.

And, you know,

that was when they were mainly plasma.

Yeah, and they were fairly inexpensive then, too.

That was like the

point, yeah, where they were starting to be like, well, I don't know, $300 isn't so bad for him to learn a lesson.

Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about Soul.

Oh, get soul.com.

Absolutely.

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So, March 15th, 2009, Courtney, the youngest daughter, the 17-year-old,

she was staying somewhere else the night before.

She arrives home here.

She arrived at the Largo metro station a few hours earlier,

just after 10 p.m.

on March 15th.

It's a Sunday night.

She spent the weekend with her friend.

She sent her mother, Dolores, a text message asking for a ride home because she's a 17-year-old at a fucking train station at 10 o'clock at night.

That's not a good place to be.

Dolores does not respond to this text message, which is not like Dolores.

I mean, she'd be sitting there waiting for her kid to text so she can go pick her up and bring her home.

So she just walks home, Courtney.

She has no other recourse here.

So she walks home,

9,700 block of Cedar Hollow Lane, the house is on.

She came in the house and said her sister and mother weren't home.

Where the hell are they?

It's 10 o'clock at night.

They should be home.

It seemed like they should have been, but they're not.

The lights are on.

Ebony's jacket was near the door, which in the winter is a thing.

And her mother's car is in the driveway, yet they're not in the house.

So what happened?

She's like, this is like they disappeared or something.

So she called out, no response.

Where the fuck are you to?

What's going on?

She said, when I got home, I don't remember if I had to disable our alarm or not, but I just go in the house, and that's something you don't remember because you do it by habit.

That's like saying, did you turn your directional on when you turned?

I don't think I did.

I don't fucking know.

I don't know if I shut the garage door every time I leave.

That's what I mean.

That's why people go, did I turn the stove off?

Or every woman always says, did I turn the curling iron off?

Yeah.

Because it's just habit.

You don't remember doing it.

So I do that sometimes.

I'll like, I'll pee, I'll leave the bathroom and go, did I flush the toilet?

And I'll go back.

Because you don't remember.

Because Because it's, you do, it's just out of habit.

So anyway, she said that I go in the house and I see my sister's jacket on the back of the chair.

Everything just looks normal.

It just looks like they weren't there.

My mom's car was in the driveway.

Everything looked normal.

It's just that they, like they weren't there.

They just disappeared, yeah.

So she goes upstairs to check the bedrooms.

They're not there.

No?

No.

We're not finding bodies on the floor.

They're not there, period.

But in Ebony's room, she finds

two spots in one area where there's bleach has bleached the rug.

Okay.

So there's two bleach spots on the carpet that weren't there to begin with.

Yeah.

She said at that point, she went into her own bedroom and she said, quote, that's when I got the feeling that you need to get out of this house right now.

Yeah.

Something bad is going on.

Something has happened and I don't like it.

So she fucking ran out of the house,

jumped into her car, which she didn't have at the train station,

and went over to her boyfriend's house and just called Ebony and Dolores over and over and over again and never got an answer.

Okay.

Okay.

So she calls the police to say, I don't know where they are.

They're missing.

There's bleach in the house.

Yeah.

Don't know.

Yeah.

I don't even know if she mentioned the bleach at the time, but yeah.

So 3.45 a.m.

that night.

This is March 16th, I guess, that morning.

Okay.

A woman named Sybil Felton calls the police to report that someone has stolen her Nissan Maxima.

It's a good car.

God damn it.

Yeah, they stole my Maxima.

Damn it.

I traded in the Altima.

I upgraded, and they stole my shit.

They just started to look good now.

Not bad.

Yeah, they went through the 90s, they looked pretty cool for 90s stars.

They started to get cool, yeah.

Then in the early 2000s, the 2000s were bad.

They look like shit.

They look like centras or something.

They look like crap.

The rear taillights looked like

kick panel speakers.

It looked so dumb.

Ugly as shit.

And then they got better.

Sweeteny.

Yeah.

And then they started to get good.

Now they're maybe the coolest they've ever looked.

Yeah, they are cooler now.

Yeah.

So she made this call to 911, or to the police, I should say, from outside in her own driveway at 3.39 a.m.

Wow.

She's staring at her empty driveway going, there used to be a car here.

I should call somebody to report her 2005 Maxima has been stolen.

So she told the emergency dispatcher that I have to fly to Europe later today.

Okay.

And I had left, I left home with my boyfriend at approximately 2 a.m.

to run an errand.

And when I returned, she's running errands in the middle of the night.

I don't know what errands you can run besides going to Walgreens.

It's available at the middle of the night.

So she said when she returned, her car is gone.

Oh, no.

And she's looking at this as just a pain in the ass now.

If you have to travel, especially out of the country,

and now your car is missing, you're going to have to deal with that the whole time you're there and talking to the cops and all that shit.

So she's just like, this is a big hassle, man.

So

when she

is talking to the 911 operator in the driveway, all of a sudden she screams and hangs up the phone.

Oh.

Which 911 operators don't like it when that happens.

Cops.

Yeah.

Well, the operator called back immediately to ask if she was okay and do I need to dispatch somebody there.

Now, Sybil Felton said, yeah, I'm okay.

the reason i shrieked and hung up is because i just saw my car drive by my house

why would she hang up so i don't know there she to go chase it she went to go chase it yeah yeah she literally said she was went to like run to the end of the driveway i think you could stay on the line i don't know why you have to hang up on that but don't don't hang up But she said she saw her car just drive by her fucking house.

She's like, that's my car.

She was so scared.

They said, how many people are in?

She said, I can't tell.

And I don't have a description of the driver too it's four o'clock in the morning it's dark out here i have no idea so 15 minutes later wow 911 gets a call that there is a fire two blocks from here okay there's a fire a car fire oh a maximum fire to extinguish it yeah and when they get there it's her 2005 niece on maximum the 10 damn it yes uh they put the fire out and she's pissed obviously yeah You know, fuck, this thing's going to be totaled.

Right.

The bad part is then they pop the trunk

and they find two bodies inside this trunk.

Did you leave those in here, Eunice?

Are these yours?

Sybil?

Sybil, right?

Sybil, is this why you're going to Europe by any chance?

Is this why you need to flee the country?

Now, fire has burned these two people beyond recognition.

Okay.

They said that

there's a number of missing person reports.

The detectives think it's possible that these might be the bodies of two teenage girls from Annarundal County who disappeared earlier this month.

Because they're both females.

They're both black females.

So they're like, that's who disappeared.

This looks size-wise.

It looks about right.

So they said, but obviously we have to ID the bodies.

When they get back the dental records on the bodies, it is Dolores and Ebony DeWitt.

Oh, no.

It's not the missing teenage girls.

So this lady's car has been stolen and people were burned in it.

People were burned in this car.

Oh, my God.

So think about

the DeWitt.

Think about how odd that is.

Yeah.

It's been months, right?

No.

No, it's been two hours.

Right.

It's been a couple hours.

That's it.

So

the other daughter, Courtney, got home that night.

Yeah.

Needed to get out of the house, left the house.

They're not there.

She found a bleach stain in an empty house with mom's car out front and the jacket and everything like that.

This lady gets her car stolen, and now they're in the back of a burnt out car.

This all happens in one night.

That's insane.

That's crazy.

Now, it turns out that Sybil's house had been broken into a couple weeks earlier and burglarized, but somebody took the keys.

She didn't notice they took her spare set of keys.

She just had in her junk drawer.

She didn't even notice them.

So someone went through every drawer and was like, I'll take those car keys and I'll come back weeks later and take this car,

put two bodies in the trunk and burn it.

Oh my God.

Yeah, this just got real complicated real fucking fast.

Yeah.

Real fast.

It sure did.

Now, inside the DeWitt home, investigators find traces of both Dolores and Ebony's blood mixed with bleach.

Okay.

So there is evidence here that they've been attacked inside the home and the killer definitely tried to clean up some evidence before transporting them.

Now, autopsies show that both women had been strangled to death before being placed in the car and set on fire.

Oh, no.

So at least they were dead.

They didn't burn to death in a trunk.

That's nice.

They said they couldn't tell really

when this happened because they said...

With the fire, they said maybe 24 hours before you found them.

We're not sure.

You can't.

The fire really fucks everything up when there's char involved and everything.

So inside the car, they find some trace evidence.

This is the first evidence they've had of anything anywhere.

So

it's good.

It included beech tree leaves.

B-E-E-C-H, beech tree.

Beech tree leaves that were embedded in their clothing that didn't burn.

Right.

There are no beech trees in the area where this car is.

Oh.

No beech trees around the area of the house that the car is from.

Sybil's house.

No beech trees around here.

Yeah.

So where the fuck did this car go and come back from?

This is crazy.

So now they're like, holy shit, the bodies were taken from their, these people were taken from their house to another location.

That's where the beach leaves.

Then back here in the car and burned.

This is what.

They passed her house.

Drove right past it.

Yeah.

Crazy.

It's fucking crazy.

So they're like, like, does this killer have, like, have a staging area?

They have somewhere where they take him, but not leave him.

Was he or she going to put that car back in that lady's driveway with bodies in it?

Probably.

That's what I would assume.

But maybe not, though, when we care about other things.

So

this is insane, though.

They're like, this is diabolical.

Certainly.

Holy shit.

So

now also, we're talking,

you know, multiple sets of

mother-daughter.

It's crazy.

Mother-daughter nurses.

Yeah.

Nurses with teenage daughters.

This is two.

That's what's the odds of that?

Right.

So the police later find a witness, Ebony's boyfriend, who said he had dropped Ebony off at home at about 1:30 a.m.

Okay.

So we know that Ebony

was alive, but it's weird because I'm not sure when Courtney got home, but she was calling at 10 to get a ride home.

So did it take her three and a half hours to get home?

How far was that walk?

That's what I mean.

It's odd.

So, the boyfriend was the last person to see her alive, but he's not a suspect, apparently.

He had an alibi.

Now,

here's a witness, a guy named Frederick Colvin, who was staying with his mother at her home near the address where the burning Nissan had been found.

By the way, this Nissan was pulled into a random driveway and set on fire.

It was in somebody's home.

Someone's driveway.

They didn't do it just on the curb.

Oh, God.

They pulled into the driveway to do this.

So

he told reporters that,

you know, and the police that he'd been awakened by a loud noise on the night of the fire.

He said, I just heard booms, like maybe thunder from far off.

And then we just came to the window and looked and saw lots of police cars.

Now, that could have been the tires popping.

In a fire, those tires popping.

They're big.

They sound like gunshots.

Now, another neighbor named Jerome Jones said that his wife thought that she heard some gunshots.

They said she heard some noise, some shooting noises, pow, pow, basically.

That's all she heard.

He said the car was all burned up and there's nothing but ashes.

So that, as we'll find out,

when we find out the autopsy results there, they weren't shot.

No?

No.

So I think those are the tires

that they heard.

Yeah.

Or the gas tank or anything.

Something.

Now, some reactions from around the area here.

A neighbor named Becky Ringenson said, a tragedy.

It's a terrible tragedy.

It's scary to live in this neighborhood now.

And they said, because

the case is close proximity to the scene of the Lofton murders, the first mother-daughter pair that were killed,

the chief here said that he's got to rethink his earlier assessment that this might be somebody, a serial killer now.

He said, this is a very strange case.

This is very unusual for this community.

It's just so bizarre.

It's just not normal.

They don't normally get weird shit like this.

So it's like, I don't usually have to investigate things.

This is,

usually I just, you know, pull somebody over, give them a ticket, and go on my way.

So timeline of events here.

They are baffled by the location, basically, from the time

Courtney returned home.

Basically, where were Dolores and Ebony from the time Courtney returned home at 10 p.m.

until 2 until 2 a.m., which is the earliest time that this woman said her car could have been stolen.

It couldn't have been stolen before that.

Right.

Because she was in it.

She was home.

Right.

Yeah.

She saw it when she left to run errands, came back, and it was gone.

So that was at 2 a.m.

She left and it was there.

So they knew that Dolores and Ebony didn't drive themselves away from the home in that time frame since Courtney found their car parked in the driveway.

They said it seems likely that they had already been abducted by that time.

And if so, it seems seems likely that the suspects or suspect had used another car until the time where they stole Sybil Felton's niece on Maxima.

So they had to have had another form of transportation to get them away from the house, to then go to that car.

They said it also thought it was really weird that the driver of the car was able to drive past Felton's house, park the car in the driveway of a vacant house, set the car on fire using an accelerant, and escape the crime scene on a dead-end street without being seen by anybody in a less than a 10-minute time frame.

Dead-end street?

You got to be so comfortable there.

That's, yes, exactly.

That's exactly what they're thinking.

And this is, like I said, the window was 10 minutes from the time that.

You got to know what goes on there.

She saw the car drive by to the point that the cops got to the fire.

It's a 10-minute fucking time.

Holy.

So it's not very much time.

She just left.

Someone knew exactly, and someone was very good and efficient at what they were doing.

Now, they found out that Dolores and Ebony's purses are missing.

Okay.

Okay.

One was a multicolored fossil purse, very 2009.

Yeah.

And the other was a black patent leather purse with a large Cadillac emblem on it.

Hell yeah.

They said they couldn't release details about the contents

of the purse or whether the victim's credit cards had been used or bank accounts accessed.

They said that the

earlier break-in break-in at the DeWitt home when the car keys were stolen, or

not the car keys, they had, yeah, they had shit stolen, the DeWitt's from before.

They said, oh, that was their television and Wii and all that shit.

They said, in which their TV and video game system had been stolen, did not appear to be connected with the homicides.

They said, that's just pure coincidence.

It's just a random act.

They're just super unlucky.

Yeah.

They get robbed and murdered.

And it's two separate events.

Within weeks by different people.

One cop said the smallest minute details sometimes bring these cases to conclusion.

Somebody in the community saw something.

Someone walking down the street, a dog barking.

Anything would greatly assist.

We're still following up with everything we have.

Somebody somewhere knows something, and that person needs to call us.

Now, they can't help, even though they say nothing's connected, they can't help but start connecting.

Well, at least comparing murders.

Compare and contrast here.

Now, there's parallels and differences in these murders.

We're talking about the Lofton murders and the DeWitt murders, not Vilma from earlier.

Just these two now, because

both victims were nurses in their 40s.

They both had teenage daughters who were killed with them.

That seems on purpose.

Both crimes happened on Monday mornings.

Oh, really?

Yes, Sunday night into Monday morning.

Both families lived in cul-de-sacs as well,

which is interesting, and within a few miles of each other.

Both crime scenes look to be, the planning looked to be off the charts on both of them.

Lots of planning, very careful.

And both cases seem to involve the killer having detailed knowledge of the routines of the victims.

They knew when they were home.

They knew when their alarms were on, when they were off, when they were doing things.

A cul-de-sac

is oftentimes feels safe because if you're going to go in there and do some bad shit, you got the opportunity to be seen twice.

You have the opportunity to be seen from every angle.

Right, and every angle.

Every angle.

But

the other positive side for that guy

or gal who wants to commit crime is that that shit's secluded.

There's nobody here but your neighbors.

And if they aren't looking, you're in trouble.

Four houses in the circle.

That's all I can see.

But if everyone in there is asleep, you're far away from everything.

Exactly.

Now, they also look at differences in the cases, and that's what they're concentrating on.

They said, number one, the Loftons were shot.

The DeWitts were strangled.

Those are very different methods of murder that usually the same person isn't really doing that often.

The Loftons were killed in their home.

The DeWitts were taken from their home, killed somewhere else, and then burned in a car.

So that's very different as far as everything went.

The MO of the whole thing.

Yeah, the whole MO is different.

Also, the Lofton house was left intact.

Nothing was attempted to be cleaned up or anything, whereas the DeWitt crime scene had bleach stains everywhere.

So it doesn't seem like they're the same.

They don't have anything except for the over, you know what I mean, things that just are glaringly on the surface.

Yeah, they know what happened, essentially, but they have no evidence that

someone wouldn't glean just from reading one report, basically.

They put up a $25,000 reward because a lot of times that will shake loose a couple of tips.

They get squat from that.

Nothing.

Nothing.

Nothing, no usable tips.

So from then on, they start going door to door in these neighborhoods.

Stop it.

That's how much nothing they have.

Hi, I'm Officer Desperate.

Yeah.

I'm Officer.

Don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

You got a.

I'm an investigator.

Don't have a goddamn thing.

Good.

Plus a name.

Detective ain't got shit.

Can I ask you two, three questions?

So they go door to door in the neighborhoods asking for just DNA samples.

They're just knocking on doors going, can we have your DNA?

Hi, will you spit in a cup

of your own accord?

Yeah.

And people were doing it because they're like, yeah, we want to catch who the fuck did this.

Well, it's in their neighborhood.

So, yeah, they do it.

They get nothing from this.

Yeah.

They had no DNA to compare it to, but they're just maybe for the future.

Sure.

But they get no clues.

They get no anything that they didn't already know.

They collect approximately 200 pieces of evidence, and now they go take all of this that they have, which is really nothing, a big pile of steaming nothing,

and they go to the FBI and say, can you get us a profile based on all of this nothing?

Anything.

Because the profile evidence isn't really the thing.

You don't need a blood sample or something like that.

You're looking at the crimes and trying to see if they're connected and see what the profile for each of these murders would be.

So,

according to the lead investigator,

the profiler said these are not the same murderers that are doing this.

No.

They said these are very different murderers.

The differences that are between them are so specific that it's not the same person.

They said that the profiler said the similarities, just the nurse and the daughter and those things, were, quote, just weird coincidences.

Yeah.

Said the world is a weird place.

Every once in a while, weird shit happens.

The numbers come up and it happens.

Sure.

Sometimes you pull the slot machine and three cherries comes up.

What are you going to do?

So

they said that they would not, they wouldn't really say much.

They said nothing's ruled out, but they said the fundamental differences in the killings and the MOs are the important thing are so different.

One detective said, we've got the pieces to a puzzle.

Now we just need somebody to tell us where the pieces go to tell us why it makes sense.

Yeah.

This is they're really perplexed.

In the Lofton case, they said, you know, victim shot.

The killer seemed to be considerably more organized than the killer in the DeWitt case.

Okay.

Yeah.

Broke in very clean, one lady

on her floor, another one in her bed, in and out without a trace.

They said, whereas the other one, you know, bleached on the floor, kidnapping him.

It's a totally sloppy or different deal.

Now, the police continued to keep the details of the DeWitt case from the public, but they later report that Dolores and Ebony had been asphyxiated before their, so they strangled.

they released that, before their bodies were torched, obviously.

And they said that the killer had seemed much more disorganized or all over the place in his actions than the Lofton murder.

So they said that

eventually they told the press that the DeWitts were dead prior to being placed into the Nissan Maxima and set on fire.

They also say that investigators believe the suspect or suspects had fled the scene by escaping into a nearby backyard and running into the woods.

And a canine unit discovers a scent trail along that route as well.

Oh.

They don't know of who, though.

Kids do that shit too.

True, yeah.

If you live in a neighborhood with backyards and woods, you're running through them into the woods all the fucking time.

When I was a kid, that was constant.

So we're having fun.

They said they were lucky that they weren't caught.

There was a lot of unnecessary risks taken.

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They talk to these people in real time.

Hey, I see you.

Get out of here.

Cops are coming.

Things like that.

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Now back to the show.

Meaning the escape here.

Now, despite all these theories and all this type of shit, they don't, again, they have nothing.

What do you do?

So people freak the fuck out in this neighborhood.

Now, they don't only think that there's a first, they were like, oh, it's a serial killer.

Now, they're being told, no, no, no, it's multiple lunatic murderers, not just one that could, you know, get in a car accident or change his mind or move.

We got multiple, so really be careful.

One neighbor said, I have daughters who are driving now, and I'm afraid for them.

I tell them to lock their doors when they get in the car.

I don't want them walking alone at nighttime.

Wow.

So they've taken this cul-de-sac, kids riding their bikes in the cul-de-sac, and turned it into roll them up, lock them down.

Yeah, there's so many serial killers in this neighborhood.

Crawling with them, for fuck's sake.

What is in the water?

Fuck, man.

So Ebony's father, Craig,

said he's, I have nightmares.

Some nights I wake up in the middle of the night crying.

Some nights it's like it just happened.

I think I have to live with it for the rest of my life.

I think so.

He said also

to see that they had, now this is interesting.

We'll talk about it, but he said to basically to see that she was burnt up and all that, in my mind, it tells me that she was tortured.

That's what he's saying.

Now, May 26th, 2009,

a gun store named J.C.

Arms

is in Woodbine, Maryland, is burglarized.

Oh.

What would that have to do with this, right?

What's the difference?

You can't get any more different than kidnapping a mother and and daughter, taking them out, killing them, doing all that, than robbing a commercial business.

Unless it's only nine-millimeter ammo that's been taken.

Just Glock 17 shit, yeah.

So in this robbery, 39 guns are stolen.

Oh, shit.

Which is an arsenal, including

assault rifles, silencers, and just a shitload of ammo.

They have suppressors in this building.

God.

They have suppressors at JC Arms.

So

JC.

When you steal

a bunch of shit from

a gun store, then the feds get involved.

Yeah, that's not a local crime anymore.

No, no.

The ATF gets involved, to be more specific.

So the ATF gets a tip.

Okay, this is interesting.

Gets a tip

that

somebody is selling stolen weapons out of a UPS parking lot.

Nice.

UPS United Parcel Service parking lot of where the guys there work.

Okay.

So

one of these informants makes contact with an ATF agent and they set up an undercover operation.

An undercover agent arranges to buy four guns in the UPS parking lot through this informant.

Okay.

They arrange to meet this guy in the parking lot.

Now the guy The guy shows up to sell them the guns.

It's four stolen assault weapons at this point.

And the purchase is being recorded, by the way, obviously.

They've got a camera and a fucking mic on.

And the seller explains to this undercover officer that, yeah, I understand the risks of what I'm doing.

He said, quote, you have to think because whoever gets caught with that, there's going to be,

I mean, it ain't like no bodies.

Yeah.

So, I mean, you're going to get caught.

You're going to be fucked because it's stolen, but it's not like there's bodies on the gun, so don't worry about it like that.

All right.

So July 1st, 2009, the ATF agents arrest two men for this,

for the robbery of the gun store and the subsequent selling of the guns.

The one man they arrest was in the UPS parking lot with stolen guns when they arrested him.

Oh, my God.

Not good.

These two men are Marcus Hunter and

Jason Thomas Scott.

Scott is born February 21st, 1983.

He's 27 years old at this point.

A little bit about his background, very stable, middle-class family grew up in.

Shouldn't be selling guns in a UPS parking lot.

His parents would not approve.

Grew up in this area,

loving, supporting parents, no abuse, no neglect, no trauma, no was never molested, nothing bad happened to the guy.

Just had a nice, easy life.

One neighbor recalls, he's a little weird, though, said around 10 years old, quote, it started as him being a peeping tom, leading to videotaping people and leading to breaking and entering.

That's what one person said of him,

which a lot of, that could be bored suburban kid.

You know what I mean?

Sure.

That happens too.

If they're not stealing a bunch of shit, sometimes they just break in to show how cool they are like idiots.

Anyway, his family, he had a good family.

They were very interested in education, and he took advantage of that.

He went to community college and then went to the University of Maryland,

where he earned two master's degrees.

Wow.

Nobody with a master's degree should be selling guns in a UPS parking lot.

No, you should be doing so well.

Absolutely.

He has two master's degrees, one in information systems management and one in computer science.

Okay.

He should be able to.

Translate that into something.

He should be fine.

Yeah.

He also studied forensic science in college as well.

Took a lot of classes in criminal justice and forensic sciences and things like that.

He's very interested in that stuff.

He lives with his parents in Upper Marlboro.

So 27, still lives with his parents.

Two master's degrees.

If I sent my kid to two fucking master's degrees

and they're living in my house,

they better be like designing another wing or some shit because I'm sorry.

I didn't pay for two fucking master's degrees so you could live in the same goddamn room you jerked off in from the time you were 13 on.

You had a master's in living with your parents?

Why are you here?

Why are you capitating?

What the fuck?

Oh, man.

So that's where he lives.

He works for UPS.

So not only is a man with two fucking master's degrees, is he dumb enough to sell guns in a parking lot, it's in the parking lot at his job.

Right.

Anywhere else you sell the guns is fine, but not at your job.

That's the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life.

He has no criminal history whatsoever, by the way.

He works for UPS, not doing some computer systems management.

He's a driver.

He just gets in the truck and fucking says, here's your Brown asshole.

Dumb bastard, Brown, helping for you.

That's it.

His co-workers had no idea he was selling guns in the parking lot.

His family never suspected anything like that.

Neighbors describe him as a quiet, studious young man who works with his, lives with his parents and works a normal job.

couldn't be more you know regular suburban cat right now he loves true crime by the way really oh god he loves it can't get enough loves it cannot get enough obsessed with it he

he watches like he like at the time would record zi so he could watch it over and over

really into it everybody no not at all early adopter would be like 1580s it's to be that into it that's normal now that's not even early anything.

Yeah, people are nuts with this shit.

Well, I guess your TiVo.

Yeah.

TiVo is.

Hey, yeah, you didn't have to get a tape out or anything.

It's just a digital recorder.

Yeah, it's just a click, click.

Get that, yeah.

Yeah.

For taping shit, you really had to be involved.

You had to give a fuck.

You had to figure out how to program the goddamn thing, which is a whole other issue.

You figure out how to set the clock in the first place.

Which you would need two masters for.

So that actually works out perfectly well.

You would need degrees.

He's got.

Masters of video production.

That's hilarious.

No shit.

Now back to the gun shop robbery here.

Scott, Jason Thomas Scott, had an accomplice named Marcus Hunter, who we also mentioned.

They were both arrested.

They had driven to a gun store in Woodbine, Maryland, stole 39 firearms.

Silencers, a shitload of ammunition.

After the burglary, Scott was selling the weapons out of the parking lot where he worked, which is wild in its own self here.

But

so, yeah, they got an undercover agent to make the purchase the purchase.

And when they got the purchase, they traced them all back to the gun store burglary.

And there is Jason Thomas Scott fucked.

And so is Marcus Hunter.

So July of 2009, they search Jason Thomas Scott's house to see what else he's stolen and what he's got in there.

He's got JT.

Stolen guns.

During this, they find 16 more stolen firearms.

Oh, this fucking idiot.

Along with what they described as a burglary kit.

Oh, he had a whole kit.

He had a whole Ted Bundy little kit here.

Bolt cutters, screwdrivers, pry bars, ski masks, black clothing, flex cuffs, and a police scanner with earbuds all in one bag.

Yeah.

That's a burglary kit.

Ted Bundy's club box.

Exactly.

Well, remember we said with Ted Bundy, all that shit, if you had that ball in a house, if you had a four-bedroom house and all that shit was in there scattered around in different places, not a big deal.

When it's in one bag, very big deal.

Huge deal at that point.

Becomes way different.

They also found what they called a rape kit as well.

Oh, no.

With gloves, condoms, lighter fluid, and a camera in it.

Lighter fluid.

Lighter fluid.

I don't like that.

They also found night vision equipment,

bulletproof vests that he had.

He's a creep, multiple cameras and recording devices of different sizes and all that kind of shit, external hard drives and flash drives containing hundreds of hours of surveillance footage of other people's homes.

All of this.

During one of the searches of his residence, they found a flash drive that contained photos of a naked, clearly underage female

with a pillowcase over her head.

Yeah, he's going to jail already.

Yes, this was from which connects, they believe, to a June 13, 2009 Fort Washington incident in which a young woman and her mother returned home to find a man holding the young woman's younger sister at gunpoint.

Oh, Jesus.

They told the cops that this man ordered the older sister into a bedroom when she got home, forced her to take her clothes off, took nude photos of her, and sexually assaulted her as well.

In one of the videos,

wow, Scott accidentally goes in front of the camera while wearing his whole deal, ski mask, dark clothing, and all that kind of shit.

Terrifying.

Yeah.

They get to see

him dressed up to do whatever he's doing.

Terrifying.

I mean, they assume it's him because it's his flash drive and shit.

But then they find more videos.

Hours of video footage at his house that showed him engaging in some crazy shit.

Let's Let's check it out.

He would sneak up through all the places, through these neighborhoods, pitch black, cover of night.

He'd have a video camera, and he'd film people through their windows

as they got dressed for work, went to bed, just moved around their houses.

He just sat outside people's windows for long periods of time filming everything they do like a fucking creep.

Wow.

Like a fucking creep.

Wow.

Now, Marcus, there, the co-conspirator, he described Scott here as sensitive but crazy.

Yeah.

He said that Jason Scott enjoys stealing car keys from houses and returning later to steal the vehicles.

Yeah.

That sounds familiar.

Yeah.

They said he didn't keep the cars.

He would abandon them in driveways of vacant houses.

He just did it for the fun of it.

Just for funsies.

That's all.

That's it.

Just parking it somewhere else as a joke.

Yeah.

He likes doing this shit.

He's not gaining anything.

He's not getting any money from it.

He just likes to do it, to fuck around.

He's fucking with people and making people psychotic.

Like a teenager would do, or like the Manson family would do.

Go rearrange people's furniture and shit.

The creepy crawlies.

That's what he's doing.

He's creepy crawling.

So this is weird.

He would.

So he had all this hours of footage on these people in their own homes, which is fucking strange.

Now, the ATF, when they find all this shit, they go, well, this has nothing to do with stolen guns.

This is a whole separate thing that we have nothing to do with.

So they then contact the local police and say, you might want to look into this because we got a whole bunch of weird shit.

We got him on this shit.

We'll hold him a while.

You guys can develop whatever the fuck is going on with this.

A while is not even close to

saying that.

He's in a lot of trouble.

He is in a lot of trouble, as we'll talk about here.

That's when they start looking into it.

They get this evidence and they're like, holy shit, this guy was looking in people's houses.

Let's see if he's, any of our victims' houses are on here or any of that shit.

Anyway, they offer him, this is the federal government offers him a proffer interview.

Okay, what's that?

Okay, a proper interview is a, basically, you make a deal ahead of time that whatever's said in this interview, they call it queen for a day is what it's called.

You come in, you tell me every fucking, every fucking thing you did wrong.

Uh-huh.

And there's limits as to what we'll charge you with of it, basically.

Okay.

Is how this is.

We'll do like 20% on any charge you admit to right now.

You've seen it on the wire all the time.

They would try to bring guys in for a proffer all the time.

It was a

good thing to tell.

Yeah, it's a proffer interview.

And they even say use queen for a day multiple times.

So

I missed the legalese of that shit.

What the fuck am I doing?

What am I watching?

It's a passive experience for Jimmy watching TV, isn't it?

Not real engaged.

So this was a deal where Scott could confess to crimes with the promise that his statements wouldn't be used against him directly in court.

They can't take a statement he makes here and then put that in front of a jury.

That's part of the deal.

Or use that as like a tool to investigate further to prosecute him harder?

Yes, but normally when they do this, it's because they think they are going to roll this person into somebody bigger.

That's why they're doing it.

Oh, got it.

We won't use this against you, but we can use it against the people you're telling on.

Okay.

Yeah, you're clearly a low-level dirtbag uh who's who's your boss that's why it's queen for a day because it's like immunity for a day basically yeah show us while you're sitting here

yeah while you're sitting here you could tell us anything and we can't fuck with you for it it's all fine so

um yeah it's a meeting between criminal defendant and prosecutor and with law enforcement there they agree to provide cooperation about crimes and um like we said usually you get reduced charges and sentence and someone else who's bigger than you gets arrested and

Yeah.

So they want him to provide information to the prosecution, even if it incriminates him, because he's going to get some leniency.

Now, the agreement is, it's a written document.

They write it all down.

It's a, it's official shit here.

Yeah.

Problem is, while the agreement offers protection against use of the statements, the prosecution can still use the information to pursue leads and gather additional evidence.

So you have to be real careful what you say here.

And then that shit, it's not like it's fruit of the poisonous tree.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

If that shit leads to more crimes, you're in trouble for those crimes, period.

Yeah, we're giving you 20% on the gun theft.

It's the rape that we're going to hit you hard on.

Exactly.

That's exactly what it is.

So you're getting banged on the rape, pardon the pun.

Yeah.

We're going to really stick it in and break it off on the rape.

We are going to go right up your ass with that rape charge, let me tell you.

So the idea was that Scott might lead them to other criminals involved in weapons trafficking or even organized crime if he sold, depending on who he sells it to.

There's bigger fish out there to fry than some dickhead rum in a gun store.

So they thought they were dealing with a mid-level arms dealer who might have some info for them.

He took the deal happily.

Really?

Jason Thomas Scott.

Yeah.

No confessions can be used against him, but he didn't really understand that local prosecutors could use the evidence differently.

This is on federal gun charges.

So

during the proffer interview, he confesses to a shitload of crimes.

I mean, and he likes confessing to it.

He loves it.

Bearing his soul.

This is all the times that I've got one over on you guys.

This is want to hear how smart I am?

Right.

I'm smart.

I'm going to tell you.

That's exactly what it is.

Look at all I did where nobody fucking caught me.

You guys didn't even know.

He confesses to 28 residential burglaries.

Okay.

Nine armed home invasion robberies.

Home invasion.

Guns to people's fucking heads.

Nine times.

Nine times.

Nine times.

Jesus.

Nine times.

So the gun store burglary in Woodbine.

Right.

He also admits to the sexual assault of multiple home invasion victims.

Does he know

he doesn't know?

I don't think he knows that the local prosecutors are going to be much more interested in shit like that.

And creating child pornography during home invasions because he was filming underage girls doing this shit.

Oh, boy.

That one, like the gun charge and that one alone.

You're never getting out.

Never getting out.

And you use these guns to break in and sexually assault people and shit.

So crazy.

It's extra bad.

So he provides them with a three-page list of 40 homes he'd burglarized, complete with addresses and details about what he'd stolen.

He remembers all this shit, too.

That's the other thing.

He loved it.

He was like meticulously walking him through it because he was bragging.

He loved this shit.

This is a hobby.

And like with most hobbies, like

think about your car.

You know what I mean?

Like that, that Corvette, anytime anybody talks to you about it, you're like, you're so jacked to talk about it.

Or, you know what I mean?

Listen to a story that they have about one that they wrote in.

That's what this is.

This is the

71.

So into it.

But there's no

rape, robbery, and child porn

parking lot to go talk about it in.

Nothing.

No.

There's no other comic to go talk about how shitty the whole process is.

He doesn't have that like a comic does to go talk to another one.

So they said that he also described how he broke into the trains, the train store, the gun store.

There's a train involved in it.

That's why I said that.

He broke into the train store.

He broke into the train store.

He's got all of them.

He did it while a train was going by on track, so they didn't hear anything.

Yeah, that's old school.

I mean, people used to shoot people under fucking overpasses when they do that.

Thunderclaps and shit.

Yep.

So that would mask the sound of breaking glass and power tools.

Wow.

He understood that this would be important for him.

So he's very smart.

They said his attitude was wild.

He wasn't remorseful.

He wasn't nervous.

This is awesome.

He was into this.

One of the federal agents said, he's saying to you, criminal justice system, I am smarter than you that I was able to be successful with these crimes.

I am good at what I do, and I'm better than you.

He thinks he's

born, and the only way you're going to catch him is if he tells you he's him.

If he tells you, and now you just gave him immunity, so shit, I'll tell you everything and brag about it.

He doesn't know, though.

He was walking the investigators through all of how he did it.

If you do it this way, like he was teaching a class, basically, is what he thought in his mind.

Now they couldn't be used against him, his statements in federal court, but they do provide investigators with a pretty good roadmap of of how to find shit against him.

Now, Marcus Hunter, his partner here.

Hunter was his accomplice in a lot of these burglaries and home invasions.

He wasn't alone for a lot of these.

When investigators bring him in for questioning and tell him the scope of what's going on, he says, oh, I'll cooperate.

Oh, you can.

And

how?

Kyle,

whatever you want.

Whatever he's getting.

Keep your cheese for you.

I don't want any of that.

I'm a vegan.

Wow.

So he began cooperating, and he,

after a few minutes, they talked about the guns, they talk about that.

Then he brings up the spooky house.

What is that?

They go, what the fuck's the spooky house?

And he got all weird, and he's like, man, the spooky house, man.

And they're like, what is that?

What are you talking about?

And he said, it's an abandoned mansion in Upper Marlborough.

that we use as a staging area for crime.

They go to the spooky house and chit-chat about it it and then get after it.

And bring their spoils back there.

This is his staging area.

They were wondering if this criminal had a staging area.

It's a black girl.

Yep.

They meet there, divide up stolen shit, plan future crimes.

It's their clubhouse.

It's their little clubhouse.

Yeah.

And dispose of evidence.

This is where they put a lot of evidence in the spooky house as well.

Now they search the spooky house and they find

all the physical evidence they need to connect him to some murders here.

Okay.

They find the charred remains of a blue sweater matching the one that Ebony was wearing when she disappeared.

What the fuck, man?

They found burned fabric from seven brand jeans matching the ones worn by Dolores.

Yeah.

So she paid $190 for her jeans.

She's a nice pair of jeans.

She's doing okay for herself there.

They found beech tree leaves

that matched the leaves found embedded in the victim's clothing.

Where were the beech tree leaves from?

There.

From that men.

From that house?

From that house.

That's where they were from.

From that yard, they had beech trees there.

They also found blood evidence linking the location to the crimes, blood of the victims, things like that.

Oh, boy.

This is where the murders happen.

Really?

Takes him here, kills them, stuffs them, strangles them, stuffs them in the fucking trunk, takes them out,

struck them in the trunk of another car.

Yeah.

Takes them there, steals that car.

It's crazy.

Unbelievable.

So,

wow.

Marcus Hunter provides more information, too.

He told the investigators that about a month before the DeWitt murders, he and Scott were running through yards after committing a burglary when Scott stopped and looked into the DeWitt house, specifically at 19-year-old Ebony.

He liked her.

Really?

He fucking, as they were running, think about you're running from a crime you just committed and you're like, ooh, look at that piece of ass.

I'm going to stop and check it out.

What are you kidding me?

I'm coming back here one day.

That's what he did.

Who the fuck would notice anybody while they're running from cops?

So he'd been stalking the DeWitt family for weeks.

He stalked these people for weeks.

He also places him near the Lofton house within an hour of those murders.

You know, the murders that aren't connected, Loftons and DeWitt's, because they're so different.

Well,

yeah, no.

Scott, this guy confirmed Scott had a stolen Glock 17 handgun during one of their burglaries.

That's the murder weapon for the Lofton cases.

One of his, then he also, he's the guy who called him sensitive but crazy and talks about the car keys.

He likes to steal them from homes and return at later times and leave them in driveways.

Cops also said that

that's what happened to the woman who reported the Nissan Maxima.

He had broken it and stolen that.

Now, Marcus Hunter said, quote, you got to watch how you talk to him

for some reason.

He said he's crazy and weird and sensitive.

So you got to set him off?

I guess, or not set him off.

The prosecutors called him a pip or the cops called him a pip squeak.

Jason?

Jason.

They said, he's just some little pip squeak.

Like,

they never thought for a minute looking at this kid.

That he was a bad man.

No, they were like, oh, he's a fucking, he tried to make a couple extra bucks with these guns.

What an idiot.

And then they got him in there and he unloads all this shit.

And they're like, the pip squeak did all this?

What the fuck?

So, Maryland law requires

ballistics testing for all handguns sold in the state.

So, they got to have a sample of your gun.

Yeah.

So, they can match it to shit.

So, they're able to match the stolen weapon to the shell casings found at the murder scene.

As one detective said, as far as that handgun goes, I think it was the nail in Jason's coffin.

We knew that he stole that weapon, the murder weapon.

Yeah.

Wow.

And

the co-conspirator here, Marcus, goes on to say that at one point, Scott, Jason Thomas Scott, had told him that he needed to get rid of the serial numbers on the guns because he said, quote, the ATF is looking for these.

Right.

So you got to do that.

Now, here's how he planned the murders.

Let's get into this.

This is disturbing.

Yeah.

He was using the UPS database to scout people.

As he was driving around?

Or at the office, whichever one.

What the fuck?

Can you imagine this?

Given using his access, he could identify households that were receiving valuable packages.

Like a Wii.

Like a Wii and a big screen TV and a bunch of electronics that are coming in.

So insurance claims, expensive electronics, jewelry, all of this information was available to him through UPS.

So he is just, that's what he's doing at work, scouting targets to burglarize.

His job is just there to give him a leg up on this, basically.

Yeah.

He was,

then he went beyond like just, I'm looking for money and shit.

He was doing huge, comprehensive background checks on victims by using all sorts of shit.

He'd look at property records who told him that would tell him who owned the homes and when they'd been purchased.

He looked up their social media profiles,

looked at family structures, looked to see if he could find out when people come home and when they don't, and then he'd go stalk them based on what he found out on social media.

So, when you post everything you do on social media,

stop it, stop it.

Fuck it off.

He knew when they were

out of town on vacation.

He knew all that shit.

So,

that's absolutely fucking nuts.

He would identify a target, then spend weeks or even months stalking them.

Oh, boy.

He'd drive through the neighborhoods at different times of day and night to note the patterns of activity.

He is literally doing everything you do to stalk.

Okay, this house, they leave for work at 2 o'clock.

This house, they leave for work at 8 o'clock.

And he would have been a great private investigator, first of all.

You know, he looked to see when they came home.

When were the kids home from school?

When did they go to bed at night?

That's what he wanted to check.

This person,

do they watch fucking the tonight show or do they go right to bed?

Do they do some work in bed first?

Do they dick around on Facebook for a while or they do at the time?

So

he

knew when people would be vulnerable.

He knew when shit was going to be there.

He also was doing

the reconnaissance was crazy.

He'd sneak through the neighborhoods with video equipment, filming people through their windows as they moved around, like we said.

Also, that way he knew all the internal layouts of the house.

He could go over them like game film.

These people sleep in that room.

This guy sleeps on a couch downstairs.

So be careful when you're in the living room.

You can wake him up.

He knows where they kept valuables because he watches them take shit off and put it away and put it on in the morning.

If they have a security system, do they arm it when they leave or not?

All that shit.

And he knew how to not leave evidence as well.

He always wore gloves to prevent the fingerprint evidence.

This is shit he told his partner here.

He used bleach to destroy DNA traces that might be there.

He wore dark clothing and ski masks, obviously, so no one knew who he was.

And he carried the flex cuffs so he could control everybody, cuff them up, and have a gun to their head.

He carried a police scanner with earbuds during every crime, which allowed him to monitor law enforcement communications in case somebody called the cop saying they saw him going into a house.

If they were dispatched, he'd know immediately.

He could take off.

He also would...

He would turn off his phone and remove his battery before committing crimes for the most part,

eliminating that source, source too.

So he knew this is if you're a true crime aficionado enough, you know all the things you get caught with.

So, wow.

He stole them from the dealer because he wanted good guns.

He didn't just want whatever he could steal from someone's house.

And they said that was

the burglary.

It was to get money, but it was also to have the weaponry he wanted as well.

He gets two birds with one stone here.

Now, the videos they find

show that he really enjoyed inflicting psychological fucking horror on the victims.

He loved it.

He would wake them in the middle of the night.

This is on film.

He would record himself waking them up.

Absolutely.

He would hold them at gunpoint, force them to comply with what is called increasingly humiliating demands and have it all on video.

He thought that was great.

In one

that we know about, he forced that girl, like we said, into the back room as soon as she came home, made her undress.

And then he's seen on the tape, though, so that's not good for him.

His home invasion technique here, he would wear dark clothing, a ski mask, black Nike gloves, and always carried a black North Face backpack with a flashlight and burglary tools in it as well.

Wow.

So all blacked out.

He used the scanner and the earpiece.

He carried a handgun, wore a holster and everything.

He was official.

He would steal money, computers,

computer shit that goes with it, got flat-screen TVs, guns, whole safes.

The whole safe.

We'll deal with that later.

Deal with it later.

Debit and credit cards, cell phones, cars.

Jesus.

He would

also cut lines

to disable security systems.

He knew which security systems could be disabled simply by the power being cut to them, the phone line being cut that would connect it to other things, all of that shit.

He carried bolt cutters and pry bars and window punches.

He carried window punches like a fucking, like a French cat burglar or some shit that they're going to steal art from a museum.

Or a tow truck driver who might see somebody stranded on the side of the road.

This is, yeah, one of the two, whichever,

whichever your desires are, I guess.

Yeah, whichever one's

everyone's less fucking terrible to be.

You want to help people or steal a Picasso.

Either way, this is the way to do it.

So

that's fucking crazy.

That way he could get in quickly, quietly, with nobody knowing the difference.

It could surprise people.

He would

also, he would, you know, it's crazy to wake them up with a gun to their heads and then he'd put the flex cuffs on them and then he'd be like, okay, now we're going to do some weird shit here.

He would, by the way, he would send Marcus Hunter to withdraw the cash while he remained at the house to make sure it was true.

Yeah.

That's when he would do all of his weird stuff, but he would make sure that they gave him the right pin based on that.

So this guy would come back.

During several of these home invasions, he forced victims to remain restrained for hours while he would search their homes bit by bit.

Not just random, like we said.

This was methodical.

He would go through everything, the pictures, family pictures, documents.

He'd go through your file cabinet

looking for documents.

Yeah.

All day.

He's got all night.

Just loved it.

I think he enjoyed this as well.

I think he's just nosy, too.

He's double majored, and he's doing this shit.

Double fucking mastered.

Never mind.

Double mastered, yeah.

Yeah.

He, at one point, during one case, he found a photograph of a teenage girl during a home invasion, then used the UPS database to access

that access to identify and target her specifically.

Oh, God.

She didn't even live there.

She was just somebody else that happened to have a picture there.

He then tracked her down three weeks later, broke into her home, and sexually assaulted her while recording it.

Wow.

It's a lot, man.

He confessed to the sexual issues, sexual assaults.

He appeared in the video.

He recorded, and it's audible as well.

You can hear his voice.

They discovered the images in question in his residence.

The thumb drive containing the images also contained Scott's homework assignments for school.

What?

So he can't even say this isn't my flash drive.

He's got his fucking college papers

on there with this.

Same one with footage of robberies.

Dude, they're like $11 for a big one.

Like, have one for your murder stuff and have one for your fucking schoolwork, maybe.

Unbelievable.

Jesus Christ.

And the camera contained photos of Scott's car and living room as well.

So it's him.

It's his.

Here is some specific invasions and how they did them.

September 23rd, 2008, Scott and Marcus Hunter broke a sliding glass door of a home in Upper Marlborough.

Once they got inside, Scott, who had a gun, extensively beat and dragged a female victim through the house.

Just unmercifully walloped on this poor woman.

He then forced her into the downstairs area where Marcus Hunter was holding her husband at gunpoint.

Wow.

That's what you want there.

That's horrifying.

They obtained their ATM cards, and Hunter left the residence and withdrew money from their accounts at a nearby machine.

Then Scott remained in the residence holding them at gunpoint.

When Hunter returned, they stole the couple's 2007 Cadillac Escalade and drove away.

Not even to keep it, just for fun.

In April 3rd, 2009, they entered a home in Bowie or Bowie or whatever the fuck it is, Maryland, through an unlocked basement window.

Let me make sure all my basement windows are locked, by the way.

They found a husband and wife sleeping in an upstairs bedroom with their youngest child.

Oh, shit.

At gunpoint, he ordered, Scott orders the family, including the three children, or three children and a visiting cousin, into the children's room, got their ATM and debit cards, and Scott demanded the PIN numbers from the victims and sent Marcus to withdraw money from their accounts.

Once he returned to the residence, Scott was still holding everyone at gunpoint.

They stole various items.

They went through the house and picked out exactly what they wanted, then stole their 2004 Mercedes S500 and took off.

Good choice and car.

So he's going to these places with high-end cars he can steal and then just drive away and then leave them somewhere.

On May 23rd, 2009, Scott and a different accomplice.

This one guy trusted multiple people with this information.

Wow.

It's like on one hand, he's a master criminal,

but on the other hand, he's not a criminal, so he doesn't get that if you involve other criminals, they're going to tell on you.

Yeah, but he doesn't get that yet.

Yeah, they're not really...

They're not really good.

He's clearly the fucking lunatic.

You do what he says.

He's going in and waking people up with their baby at gunpoint.

I'm not crossing that man.

No, and it's weird that they want to, it's just so strange that he, you know, he, he wants somebody there with him just to help him round people up and shit like that.

He can't do it all.

He can't go get money out of the ATM and do all this on his own, I guess.

So this dates, May 23rd, 2009, Scott and Terrence Alexander Cook break into another home in Upper Marlborough, breaking a basement window.

Again, once inside, Scott kicked kicked and beat a female juvenile at gunpoint while pulling her upstairs from the upstairs hallway into a bathroom.

Scott and Cook also ordered the mother into the same bathroom, then stole property and a handgun and a 2004 Lexus LS-430.

It's a nice car.

He keeps taking, he wants to drive away in style.

That's one thing we'll say.

He likes nice cars.

Oh, my God.

The gunshop robbery, Scott had researched the dealer using the Choice Point database at Landover UPS facility where he worked.

Oh, he knew what they had.

He knew what they had.

He knew what they were getting in stock, for Christ's sake, so he could go, oh, he was picking shit out ahead of time.

I'm going to get this, that.

He knew exactly what he was doing.

Wow.

That's incredible.

Now,

like we said, you know, we know he sold a bunch of the firearms.

He also specifically,

specifically targeted young lady that he went after was a 17-year-old.

He broke into her home in Fort Washington on June 13th by throwing a cinder block through the rear patio door.

That's a unique thing.

The least sophisticated way to break into a fucking place.

BTK did that once.

Incredibly reliable.

It works.

It always works.

Just about every time.

Wow.

Once he got in there, he held a 12-year-old girl at gunpoint.

You know, because a 12-year-old's very threatening.

Yeah.

You get a 12-year-old girl, you got to keep a gun on her because at any point, she could

chop your throat.

You know what I mean?

You'll fall to the ground and then she'll do some like ninja shit to you.

Or the old, the old

girls are a 12-year-old at two in the morning.

She's up to no good.

That's a bad girl.

Yeah.

In her own home, she's up to no good.

Held her at gunpoint

when the child's mother, 17-year-old sister, and five-year-old brother arrived, Scott ordered them into a bedroom at gunpoint, then ordered the 17-year-old into a separate bedroom where he brandished the firearm, forced her to undress, and placed a pillowcase over her head.

As we know what that one is.

You know what the common thing that none of these homes have?

A couple of them have them, but dogs, but also men and awake and alert men

near.

Home invasions do.

yeah a couple of them got guys in their in their sleep but yeah

you're catching them uh unsuspecting and uh

and mostly with children and women that's what a fucking what a pussy yeah but no most of the home invasions there was guys present the husband was present yeah most of them so far yeah yeah i mean but the murders no the murders are just the women and their and their daughters exactly that's what he's like ooh i'm gonna get all in that shit when it's just those two it's disgusting So that Terrence Alexander Cook, who is

one of his accomplices, he's going to plead guilty to a state gun crime in Prince George's County Circuit Court involving a home invasion robbery committed with Scott.

And he is sentenced to, you, sir, may fuck off nine years in jail

with five suspended.

Or I'm sorry, all but five.

So five.

Okay.

So four years suspended.

He's got a five-year sentence for that.

For that robbery?

Jesus.

For home invasion.

That's how much they want him to flip on somebody else.

Beat people.

Wow.

Now, the cops through all this, they can't help but compliment Scott.

Yeah.

They called him a brilliant criminal

who studied forensic textbooks and he changed his M.O.

on purpose, and it worked.

It made an FBI profiler go, not the same guy.

Right, not the same guy.

He did that on purpose.

He knew that they would have a profiler, and he knew that that would throw them off the scent.

He did it on purpose.

That they look at everything

through such fucking rigid eyes

that they just go, oh, it can't be the same guy because it's different MOs because those are the rules.

These don't overlap because they can't.

Yeah.

Yeah.

When, you know, in reality, they might.

They might if the guy wants it to.

Yep.

They're just so into what they've been told.

So they haven't tried

Hunter yet, huh?

No, no, no, no.

No.

He's going to get a deal, too.

Same thing.

He's going to get the, because he completely flipped on him.

He's going to get about the same deal as that guy there.

And hopefully,

hopefully be kept someplace else.

Clearly, away from him.

Now, the cops, they do, they called him a brilliant criminal.

They said, that's amazing.

They said that he was so well-versed in forensic science techniques that he was able to clean up crime scenes and use his knowledge to confuse detectives and to see an FBI profiler.

So the police chief said, while I don't want want to glorify his intellectual capacity, I will tell you he's a challenge to us.

Okay.

It's so rare that smart people commit crimes that it is hard to catch them.

That's the thing.

Smart people.

Part of being smart is not wanting to go to prison and understanding consequences for shit you do, and so you don't do them.

That's part of being smart.

So that's why most smart people don't do crimes.

And understanding that you like to do some certain things, and those things don't get done if you have to be in a fucking jail cell.

And if you're smart, you can usually make your own way without having having to resort to crime.

Not always, but

figure it out.

Yeah.

So September 2nd, 2009 is when he's finally arrested for the DeWitt murders.

Before that, he was just, he was like on bail for the

gun charge for the gun charges.

His co-workers are surprised.

They said that

he was.

This is the funniest thing.

Quote, he was quiet, mostly kept to himself, which is every

do-it-that's the hackiest serial killer joke.

He he was quiet kept to himself i don't expect this

reason yeah yep uh one co-worker said quote he always came to work

well yeah because if he didn't it would raise flags you idiots that's the thing also he needs those databases to look up

he loves it he said he was never anyone that caused any problems if you asked him to do something he did it he was extremely fast at typing

I don't know what that has to do with that.

His words for a minute were through the roof.

I mean, really impressive.

His Mavis Beacon score was crazy.

Oh, you have no fucking idea.

He fucked Mavis Beacon.

That's how

he gave it to her.

Good.

I don't know if that's a woman or just a name or what.

It's a game.

It could be two last names for all I know.

It's an uh computer thing where you learn how to do it.

Yeah, yeah.

I know that.

I remember often.

All right.

I didn't know if that's.

It was a person.

Yeah.

Yeah, if that's the name of a person or two last names or what.

I think that's Jay Leno's wife's name.

Yes.

I think you're right.

She's not funny and neither am I.

That poor lady, she's got, I feel bad for her.

I don't.

Nobody knows what the fuck she looks like, do we?

No, but she's got like severe, horrible dementia and shit.

Oh, really?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, no.

Yeah, he's like.

Well, that's positive.

She doesn't know that Jay Leno's.

She doesn't.

Well, no, no.

He can tell the same jokes over and over like he always does, and she'll think they're fresh.

He's coming into the house going, I did hear about this Monica Lewinsky thing.

This guy, you know, the president, he was going down, and she's like, wow, really?

That happened to President Clinton?

He got a blowjob?

Crazy.

I didn't even know.

Wow.

It's like, I could just repeat material from, you know, like

late 90s, I usually go through.

Late 90s, that's my sweet spot.

I showed her this great movie with me and Mr.

Miyanki.

That's pretty good.

We sat here.

Jimmy and I sat

texting back and forth one night while we watched this terrible fucking movie from the late 80s starring Jay Leno and Mr.

Miyagi.

It was the weirdest fucking thing.

It was terrible.

Such a bad movie.

We definitely recommend it.

You definitely want to see it.

This guy goes on to say, as far as employees go, he was pretty good.

Now that you think about it, it's scary.

Yeah.

I mean,

what are you talking about, man?

I mean, now that I really roll it around for a minute in my mind, Jesus.

Let that roll around your mouth a little while.

Let that roll around your mouth.

Baby, Billy Babble Bonkers.

Feels good, don't it?

Feel good, don't let that roll around your mouth for a while.

Feel good, don't it?

God damn.

Now, here's another thing.

There have been other UPS employees recently, or employee murders in the last few years.

Is it UPS doing this to people?

What can Brown do for you?

What can they do is get you to murder murder people let's go over a few in the last five years just uh in 2024 uh rian jalipa fontanosa that's a name uh a ups employee on disability leave was accused of tracking down and fatally shooting a co-worker

expedito the guy's first

is there a better name for a ups driver than expedito

do it fast

how fast how fast will it be there we're sending expedito right now oh okay

I'll be expecting him soon then.

His mom's pregnant.

She's like, oh, I feel like this is going to be a fast one.

Yeah, that's why he popped out.

He was like the eighth kid she had, and there was like

she was in the car on the way to the hospital.

She said, make a U-turn.

I'm fine.

He's just sitting on the floorboards.

He's sitting on the weather techs down there, and they're going, all right, we're so glad we got weather tech.

This would have ruined the carpet.

I'm already done.

Let's go.

Holy shit.

Expedito Cuesta de Leon in California.

Also in 2024, Alonso Pierre Mingo, a former UPS worker, was charged with murder in the killings of three people in Minnesota.

Jesus.

In 2020, Elijah Bertrand, who was riding with UPS delivery driver Nathan Burke as his helper, he wasn't even a full-on driver.

He was just learning the ropes.

Yeah, go put that on a porch, was found guilty of fatally stabbing the guy who he was helping in Connecticut.

He's had enough.

I want to drive.

Fuck that.

Yeah, he's like, I know how an opening can come up here in this job.

You lift the fucking boxes.

Let me drive.

That's bullshit.

My back hurts.

I just heard of a root opening up.

Maybe I could get that.

In 2023, Danny Ray Ellingford, a former UPS driver, was found guilty of three counts of vehicular homicide after falling asleep at the wheel of his tractor trailer and causing a fatal crash in Washington State.

Wow.

Is it UPS that's doing this?

I got to ask my, I actually talked to my UPS driver because we've had the same one the whole time I've lived here.

He's a nice guy.

I talk to him all the time.

I'm going to ask him, how many of your like co-workers have murdered people?

What's going on?

My kid's best friend's dad.

Are you scared?

Yeah.

He's a UPS driver.

And they make great fucking money, too.

No, they do great.

Washington.

Happy as fuck.

Yeah.

They should not be mad at all.

They got a great gig.

And he brings like the big things of corn for the deer and all that.

And he throws it down.

He's like, ah, you guys have a good one.

All right there.

Yeah, that's all right.

He's throwing salt licks on your fucking patio.

He doesn't give a shit.

He's happy as hell.

He's the nicest delivery driver we have.

Good guy.

So then they find,

they talk about the other victims here of him, including of Scott, which is the teenage girl he sexually assaulted in June 2009 and recorded on video with the pillowcase on her head.

Oh, my God.

And she didn't know she was being recorded.

She had a pillowcase on her head.

So she had to find out that he had this footage of her the whole time as well.

And during legal proceedings, she's going to be forced to relive all of this shit and everything.

He's caused a lot of psychological damage in families.

He's held at gunpoint at three o'clock in the fucking morning.

One victim, Shirley Grooms, said, when you have absolutely no control over a situation, when you're totally helpless, it's kind of hard to describe, but it's a bad place to be in.

I would say, with a fucking stranger holding you at gunpoint, he'll do it.

100%, yeah.

Um,

so, uh, they also connect him to, through the searches, they connect him to a 2007, uh December 2007 burglary in Mitchellville, a June 2008 burglary near Kettering, and a May 2009 burglary in Bowie, as well as other crimes.

Um,

so they're still also investigating whether he is responsible for the June 2008 killing of Vilma Artis Butler as well, the first woman we talked about, whose home was set on fire.

They are concerned also that he may be responsible for many more unsolved murders

in Washington, D.C., Texas, and Florida, places he was known to have frequented both for work and for personal reasons.

He's doing shit there.

There's no fucking way he's going anywhere and not doing this stuff.

This is what he does

following all this following his arrest neighborhood watch programs saw a 60 increase in participation in the area and home security systems you couldn't get one because sold out

three months we is the close nearest time we can get you in fucking booked totally booked installing security systems yeah um and there were people who literally single mothers with teenage daughters just moved they just moved just got the fuck fuck out of town.

Yeah, single mother, teenage daughter.

That's who he's going after.

Goodbye.

I'm out.

Yeah.

Which is crazy.

And,

wow.

So

you can't help but think that first murder of the Vilma Butler, did he think that the teenage girl would be home?

Was it at a time when one of her daughters was normally home?

Right.

You know what I'm saying?

And he thought she was home, but she wasn't.

And so it was just her.

We don't know.

So he's indicted for the DeWitt murders.

That's what they have him on, even though the Lofton murders, he obviously did.

And same thing with the Vilma murder.

So the state's attorney here says, clearly, this was a gruesome double murder that really shocked the community.

I hope that this incident will help bring some sense of calm to the community.

Meaning, it's indictment, not incident.

Yeah, and this was the, if you're going to try one, this is the nastiest one.

You want to try this one because he kidnapped them, took them somewhere else, murdered them, put them in the trunk of a stolen car, set it on fire.

It's diaphucking bollical to do that.

Pretty fucked up, yeah.

It shows what an arch fucking criminal this person is.

Now, asked if he would agree that Scott is a serial killer.

Yeah.

Prince George's County State's Attorney said that he can't characterize him as that at this point.

He said ethics rules prohibit me from making such statements during ongoing investigations.

So what is he he saying there?

I mean...

He just doesn't want to comment?

He's saying yes, but I can't say that.

Right.

Ethics tell me, ethics dictate that I'm not allowed to say that he's a serial killer.

Means he's a serial killer.

I mean, ethics are one thing, but

words mean things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, he would have, there'd be no ethical difficulty in him saying, no, he's not a serial killer.

Right.

So if he wasn't a serial killer, he could have said, no, he's not.

So the ethical part is to say, yes, he is, which is what he thinks.

He called the case just a gruesome double murder that shocked the community.

They asked for updates on other mother-daughter killings, and he said that investigations are moving forward.

It's okay.

He said that he'll be seeking life without parole because the death penalty is not an option in Maryland.

And

they also said he didn't know whether

Jason knew the DeWitts or not.

Didn't know that.

it was personal uh he said this is the chief now police chief said the case before you i think is going to be a case study for many law enforcement agencies in the future is what he said because this is the new type of criminal someone who knows all the investigative techniques

i mean anybody with an inter with a fucking internet access anybody with a phone in their pocket could find out every last little bit of crime scene details and how they're investigated.

He also also said this was an individual

that was very well read, a studious person that studied the policing system, knew the policing system, knew about his craft.

He called it a craft.

Gross.

Almost like an art.

A craft.

Yeah.

Wow.

It's a hobby.

Yeah.

Do you look at murder as more of an art or a craft?

They could have heard it described both ways a lot.

They could have just as easily said

his crime.

For Christ's sake, it's his crime.

Crime is the.

Yeah.

But like

in a more nebulous thing, like John Douglas always says, if you want to figure out the artist, look at the work type of thing.

He looks at that as their art, basically.

It's how they consider it, for sure.

Whereas craft is more, I'm doing this to get it done and to have that utilitarian thing.

It's not just my feelings or whatever.

Yeah, craft is there.

Are they Van Gogh or are they Bob Vila?

Exactly.

Yeah.

Are they

Vila Shelf or a Van Gogh painting?

Which one?

So

he said he knew about his craft.

This is a very bad guy.

That's an understatement, I think.

A very bad guy.

He's a very bad man, this guy.

A very bad man.

Not good.

I think this is not good.

I don't like him.

I think this individual is going to become one of the most infamous criminals in the history of the United States.

He's a serial killer.

There you go.

So there is no ethical.

For the prosecutor, there's some ethical shit.

For this,

there's no ethical things for a police chief.

He's like, fuck this guy.

He's a serial killer.

He's a piece of shit.

He also characterized him as a hardcore criminal that just preyed on the community.

Now, the federal trials are going to come up first.

Now, they have him, they think airtight on some multiple murders, but the feds have him first.

Now,

Basically, the problem is he's looking at life in prison on the federal charges.

Right.

So state murder charges aren't really going to increase the punishment that much.

So they're like, this is going to be a challenge.

Number one, they're not going to get him to confess to anything or do anything because not like they can help him or give him any kind of deal on it or whatever.

So I mean, the bummer is that if he, if he that's crazy, too, because he's going to serve Fed time first there, obviously.

Yeah.

That's a fascinating bit that if you do get paroled for life from in a federal, you're going to go do state time now?

That's wild.

Oh, yeah.

Now you've got life in state too coming up, up probably.

So July 2011 is the federal trial.

Yeah.

So time has passed here.

They give him 11 charges total.

Now, that is way less because, I mean, he confessed to 28 burglaries and nine home invasions.

So that's just whatever.

But they chose to focus on the cases where they had the strongest evidence

besides his confessions.

you know, where there was physical stuff they could connect him to, electronic shit they could connect him to, videos they could connect him to, everything like that.

Now, he says prior to the trial, his lawyer moves for

his shit to be suppressed, suppress the evidence seized from his home and car,

which is everything,

basically.

They said that the affidavit supporting the warrant did not

establish a significant nexus between his alleged criminal conduct and the items to be seized,

which is the most ridiculous thing ever.

They suspected him of breaking into a gun store, so they searched his house and found stolen guns

that were then connected to other crimes.

There is, that's just, you know, if you walk into a house, if someone...

Someone's supposed to have stolen property and you walk into a house, you have a warrant to search for stolen property, and they have four corpses in their living room.

They're still allowed to charge you with fucking murder.

They can't be like, oh, well, you were looking for the guns, so, you know, the bodies don't count.

They were right there.

Yeah.

So the court says, get the fuck out of here.

I don't think so.

Now, the worst evidence they have against him, I mean, worst for him, best for the government, obviously, was the video recording he made of himself sexually assaulting a minor.

That's not okay.

That's a problem.

forcing her to undress the video.

They play in court a video of him forcing her to undress at gunpoint while her family was fucking tied up in other parts of the house.

You don't really have to have her testify when you have that, right?

I don't think so, but I mean, yeah, you do because you want her to get up there and say how horrifying it was, and you want that jury to really want to put this guy away forever.

So, at one point, that's when he stepped in front of the cameras and they got a clear image of him.

And they said, though, his demeanor during the assault was horrifying.

He was just calm, and they called him business-like.

Yikes.

There was no, he wasn't, you know, a drooling fucking psychomaniac.

you know what i mean he was even worse this is way worse this is way creepier to me way more dangerous anyway than some snarling animal person i mean you know what i mean a snarling animal is like certainly like that dude duncan that that was naked telling girls what he's gonna do to him and then with their blood all over him he's screaming into the wilderness that's fucking horrifying that's horrifying put this on tape in your own home while he's just like now take him off i'm gonna do some things yeah i'm gonna take pictures of it it's it's fucked up, man.

Wow, it captured his voice also as he gave commands, providing audio evidence that you cannot explain away, obviously.

That wasn't me.

They described the video as the smoking gun that tied him to the crimes.

In addition to his own confession and the video, which to me, that's enough, I think.

He confessed to all this.

And I got it on the screen.

Here's a video showing you do it.

I think you're guilty.

But they said, let's put some more on there just in case.

Ballistics evidence linking weapons found in his home to crime scenes.

DNA evidence from victims found on his clothing and equipment.

Cell phone records placing him near crime scenes at the time of the attacks before he started popping his battery and shit out.

Testimony from Marcus Hunter, his partner there, detailing his role, Jason's role in the mastermind of the whole thing.

It's all his idea.

I mean, this Marcus guy, he didn't have all the surveillance equipment and UPS computers to check.

So it has to be Jason's because they tried to blame him.

You know what I mean?

His defense was like, what's all this Marcus Hunter guy?

You're like, no, no, no.

Also, physical evidence from the spooky house as well.

Okay.

Now, his defense is...

What do you think his defense is?

What would your defense be if you're an attorney?

I'm crazy.

I don't know.

Look at him.

He's nuts.

The defense was

he was struggling with his sexuality and had confessed to multiple crimes he didn't commit.

Why?

The confessions were bullshit, quote, to

because he was looking to be socially accepted.

So he's gay?

It said he's struggling with his sexuality.

So maybe he's done it.

He's ambivalent.

No, no, no, no, no.

He's gay or he's sexually ambivalent, which made him look to be socially accepted.

Therefore,

he confessed to tons of crimes no no no he confessed he didn't even do it no false confessions

yes false confessions because he's sexually ambivalent and wanted to be socially accepted by the cops and the best way to get the cops to like you is to be a murderer and a scumbag tell them you're a bad guy

that's the last thing you're not that's you're socially unaccepted at that point but basically he the nerd defense yeah your honor my client's a nerd and he just wanted the cops to like him so he just gave them the info they wanted which is crazy.

So it's a three-week trial.

Yeah.

Okay.

And the jury comes back and they find him guilty of all 11 counts.

Three counts of carjacking, taking vehicles by force during home invasions, because it's a carjacking, even if you're not in it.

Sure.

If they take your keys out of the car, it's a carjacking still.

Four counts of using a firearm during a violent crime.

One count of theft of firearms.

That's for the gun store burglary.

one count of sexual exploitation of a minor, creating child pornography during a home invasion, one count of unlawful possession of a stolen weapon, one count of unlawful possession of an unregistered silencer.

Can't have those unless they're.

That's the two worst ones, probably, the silencer and the child porn.

Those are really bad charges.

I mean, the child porn and the using a firearm during a violent crime is pretty bad.

That's pretty bad, too.

The sentencing, the judge calls jason thomas scott this not he did this he is this yeah quote a tsunami of crime he called him you are a tsunami wow an uncontrollable wave of crime you are just that will absolutely take out a beach community you just come in then you go out then you come back and it keeps it keeps happening and malibu is decimated that's what happened you just destroyed no more indonesia nope you put out the wildfire and then took the houses houses away.

Wow.

He also said that he showed no indication that he would ever rehabilitate, at least not in this lifetime.

No kidding.

Yeah.

You, sir, may fuck off 100 years in federal prison.

A hundred years is a round, nice number.

A hundred years is pretty good.

You're going to do 100.

A hundred.

Yeah, that'll...

That'll take the breath out of you if you get hit with that.

A hundred.

Now, family members of the victims were present here.

They did invite them all and everything.

And they all expressed relief that he's not going to be free and he's going to be put away.

But they were also pissed off.

But this is nothing you can be pissed off about.

It's the way the law works.

I get they're upset, but they were mad that the federal charges didn't specifically address the murders, which it's not a federal crime is the problem.

That's a state crime.

Talk to your

sheriff.

The rest of the shit's federal.

That's not federal.

One family member said, we wanted justice for the murders, not just the other crimes.

It's fine that he's going away, but we wanted him to know he's going away for that.

Now, during his confession, he mentioned the other states, remember, that he went to during his employment with UPS.

They started looking into and investigating all these places that we talked about before.

Now, the state wants to try murder charges now.

They're under a lot of pressure to get him put away for murder.

You know what I mean?

So they look at the cases and

the Lofton family case, Vilma, they have no evidence on.

They know it's him.

They're pretty sure it's him because no one else was doing this at this time.

They're even pretty sure about that other, the other two.

Remember the

other two we talked about that weren't Lofton and DeWitt?

They're pretty sure that he did those too, but they don't have any evidence of it at all.

The only thing they have physical evidence that you can show a jury is the DeWitt case because that is they have the leaves connecting him they have all that sweaters and the jeans

I would think the Lofton case connecting a gun in his possession to the fucking casings on the floor would that that should do it too I would imagine right yeah yeah and and the bullets in the people and the bullets in the people that would make sense but I guess at that point you he might be able to try to blame that on one of the co-conspirators because of the gun he could well I wasn't holding the gun he had the gun and it could confuse the jury a little bit so instead they're going to just do the DeWitt case because they have physical evidence from the spooky house, including DNA and things like that.

Charred clothing, matching what the victims were wearing, beech tree leaves embedded in the fabric, blood evidence, all of it found in the abandoned spooky house.

Marcus Hunter's testimony places Scott at the scene of the murders and described his behavior before and after the crimes.

Cell phone records showed his phone in the area during the relevant time period.

Yeah,

it's a lot.

So the defense team here, he's got a really good defense attorney.

I don't know if his parents provided this or what, but there's a guy named Harry Traynor as his defense attorney.

He had been practicing law since 1979.

So he's around for fucking, you know, over 30 years.

was involved in a lot of high-profile cases.

He was co-lead counsel in the defense of the first federal death penalty cases in Maryland and the Northern District of West Virginia, and has defended more than 28 death-eligible murder cases in Maryland state court.

So he's the guy you want if you got this here.

He was elected a fellow of the American College of Trial Lawyers since 2001, has

an A rating from

some fucking service that rates lawyers, and was selected to the best lawyers in America every year since 2006.

Couldn't have a better guy for a murder case for you.

Absolutely.

Now, October 2012, just before the murder trial is scheduled to begin, Scott's attorney files a motion for a mental competency evaluation.

Good move.

Yeah.

The motion claims that Scott was currently unable to effectively assist in his own defense and needed psychological evaluation to see if he was fit to stand trial.

You got to throw some shit at the walls and see what sticks type of thing.

Like,

what else are you going to do?

They have so much evidence on this case.

It's pretty fucked.

Now,

while he's undergoing evaluation, we find out what the real reason for this was, which was just to kill some time before the trial without actually having to get a continuance, which were all kind of all used up at that point.

His defense team started reaching out to the prosecutors about the possibility of a plea agreement.

Oh.

Yeah.

That lawyer's a great lawyer, but he's not an idiot.

He knows when he's cooked.

You know what I mean?

He knows when his back's against the wall.

Yeah, like, I don't know.

How the the fuck do you defend this?

You know what I mean?

What do you do?

So the prosecution is open to the idea.

Really?

Yeah, they said, well, he's already serving 100 years in federal prison, so he's not going to be released no matter what happens here.

A plea deal would spare the victims' families the trauma of having to do this whole shit in a lengthy trial with a good attorney who's really going to drag everything through the mud, and it's going to be painful for them.

It's not going to be an open and shut thing.

And in addition to that, it would guarantee a conviction without risking a jury trial.

Now, the family, victim's families here, they're not happy with a plea deal.

No.

They don't want it, which

I mean, I get from one side, but then from a realistic side, though.

You know what I mean?

What do you want to sit there and go through all that for when he's already going?

It's not like, oh, he'll go free otherwise.

That would be one thing, but doesn't make sense.

But they want him to be held formally accountable, which a plea agreement would be that.

It would be

guilty.

That's the only way you're ever going to get him to say, I killed those people.

That's what I don't get.

If you go through a whole whole trial and he loses, he's not going to admit to it because he's got appeals then after that.

Right.

And he wants to not have to do this time.

Yeah, exactly.

So I don't get, I would rather have the guy admit he did it in court and have him go away forever.

To me, that's way better than having some kind of circus, but you don't think straight, too.

If you've got dead family members and it's hard to, you know, you're not thinking straight.

You want blood.

You want fucking, you want to kill somebody.

So he is found competent to stand trial in early 2013, but the plea negotiations are still going.

Apparently they break down because 2013, we're going to have a trial.

Really?

We are.

We're having it.

In the openings here.

Prosecution laid out their case against Scott.

They said that he broke into the homes, searched for victims using the UPS database.

They hinted at his meticulous track covering, hinted at it, but not too much.

In the DeWitt house, they said, you know, we found examples of bleach stains, evidence of bleach stains.

They said that hours before he allegedly killed these two, also, he broke into another home with a woman inside.

As he was preparing to leave, he turned to the accomplice and said, let's take her with us.

Oh, my God.

And Hunter said, no.

No.

We're We're not taking her with us.

And he said, oh, okay, cool.

And then he took these two with him hours later.

Oh, my God.

He was doing this more than once a night, man.

That's crazy.

I don't even know what the fuck to say about that.

After that encounter in March 2009,

the prosecutors detail that the accomplice dropped Scott off near the home of Dolores DeWitt and Ebony.

So he's saying, I dropped him off over there.

And then they found the charred remains.

They found the seven brand jeans, the gray sweater

at the spooky house that they used to divide up the loot from the burglaries there.

They said also they found the beach tree leaf, one beech tree leaf on Dolores' remains.

That's what connected this whole thing.

Wow.

One leaf.

They said no eyewitnesses would connect him to the slayings, but other evidence together, quote, forms a neon arrow pointing at the defendant.

Like, it is obvious.

Like, it is, you know, fucking vacancy, vacancy right here.

Absolutely.

Fucking go over there.

Now, the defense acknowledges that his client committed break-ins.

There's no denying that.

Yeah, that's what he does.

He said, but he never admitted to killing anybody.

And the prosecutor's evidence, because he's saying basically he sat down, gave this long, detailed confession, didn't talk about this, and he was giving stuff up.

Right.

So, you know, he said that evidence, prosecutor's evidence connecting him to the DeWitt killings is largely circumstantial.

He also urged the jurors not to delve too deeply into the other crimes.

Don't look too deep.

Which just makes you want to look even deeper when someone tells you that, hey, don't look into that.

It's not important.

It isn't.

Let me decide.

He also said that while Scott might have broken into homes in Largo, there was no direct evidence linking him to any killings.

He said it would be easy for someone to make that jump, an improper jump, that because of all this other stuff, he must be a person of bad character.

Yeah, I'd say he's a person of bad character if he held a child at gunpoint and fucking made her.

Made her undress and did whatever else he did to her.

Yeah, that is horrifying.

Wow.

The prosecutor said that Scott most likely took the spare key to the Nissan Maxima at an earlier break-in, then used her car to dispose of bodies.

But the defense says no, no, no, no, no, saying that the key was the only item taken during the break-in, apparently removed from a kitchen drawer.

And he had, he said, Scott would not have known where to find the key, and it was more likely taken by someone who the Maxima owner knew personally and was in their house and knew where the key was.

Not the fact that he methodically goes through homes and takes fucking pictures out of photo albums that he wants, never mind car keys in a drawer.

So, three weeks into the testimony, this is a long trial,

things get fucked up.

up.

Oh?

A detective prosecuting or testifying for the prosecution mentions that Scott was connected to, quote, several other crimes.

Oh, you dick.

Information the judge had specifically ruled inadmissible because it's prejudicial.

The defense immediately moves for a mistrial, arguing that the jury had been irreparably tainted by hearing about his other activities.

The judge agrees and declares a mistrial.

Okay.

Now, the victims' families were like, we just sat here for three weeks hearing all these murder details.

This is crazy.

So now

when they have a plea deal in the works, the family says, go ahead and fucking do it.

Go ahead.

Just we, we,

you know, I think, and this makes sense too, to me personally, I think they went to the trial expecting something out of it to feel a certain way and just felt dissatisfaction.

Right.

This isn't what we wanted at all.

Yeah, we wanted him to just be excoriated the whole time.

He's got like an attorney saying he's not guilty.

That's frustrating because you know the guy did it.

Yeah.

Yeah, you know, that's got to be frustrating for, you know, the victim's family.

So rather than put them through another trial with the risk of another mistrial or another acquittal, because again, it's a, it's a land fucking minefield of

shit you don't not allowed to say.

And if this one says it, it's a lot.

So they decide to offer him a comprehensive plea agreement that would resolve all the outstanding murder charges at once.

The deal is structured as an Alford plea, though.

Oh.

Which means you're not really pleading guilty.

See, that would be dissatisfying.

But it acknowledges prosecutors have the sufficient evidence to convict him.

This allowed him to maintain his innocence while accepting criminal responsibility.

That would be frustrating.

Yeah.

See, like the Koberger situation, I could see the families being mad if that was the deal, where he didn't have to say he did it.

Right.

Where he still says, I didn't do it, but I'm accepting criminal responsibility he had to say they had to go through did you go through and stab this girl and do all that he had to say yes i did

that's over this guy didn't have to do that so under the terms of the plea agreement he would plead guilty to the murders just the dewitt murders now oh not the others and he would receive a an 85-year state sentence okay

prosecutors would drop the charges of in the of the murders of karen and carissa loften prosecutors would drop the charges charges in the murder of Velma Butler, and the state would waive, or Scott would waive all rights to appeal his conviction as well.

That's a big one.

No appeals.

Scott would be required to serve 80% of his state sentence in addition to 85% of his federal sentence.

So basically 85 years and 75 years he's got to do.

He's got to do about 160 years before he's going to get out of a chance of parole.

Okay.

So he's got to do the Fed time first and then start that other shot.

Yeah.

Okay.

And yeah, if he survived 85 years in federal custody, being a 30-year-old, which is unlikely,

then he gets to go there.

Now, sentencing, the judge says, quote, I can't imagine or understand the cruel and cold-blooded nature of Mr.

Scott's acts.

You, sir, may fuck off, like I said, 85 years to be served consecutively with the federal sentence.

He's dying in prison, period.

Yeah.

The state's attorney defended the plea agreement, saying it provided closure for the families while ensuring that he's never going to threaten anybody ever again.

He said, we have removed, we believe, a ruthless killer from the streets.

They got a serial killer put away.

Great.

Good deal.

The families

sort of concur.

Dolores DeWitt's family said they were relieved that the case was finally over and that he's never going to be free.

They said this has been, because this is 2013.

It's been years,

four years of this shit, multiple delays, a mistrial, and the plea agreement is that means they can finally put this behind them.

And

families of Karen and Carissa Lofton and Vilma Butler, though, felt betrayed that their murders weren't involved in that, too.

Okay, yeah, I could see it.

They said they were pissed.

They'd waited more than four years, only to be told that they're never going to be prosecuted.

And they said, does this mean you'll prosecute them if you find more evidence?

And they said, no, this is it.

It's done.

So Kirk Lofton Sr.

said, we never had our day in court he was going to spend the rest of his life in jail anyway so i guess they assumed why spend money to satisfy the family and that's really what it is it's the state versus meaning the entire state not your family okay and it's they do what's best for the whole state right what's good and if he's put away forever and we're going to save millions of dollars that's the best thing for the state yeah you don't feel great about it but that's not really what the that's not what the justice system is about called laws and shit.

Well, it's for everybody, not just for victims.

It's not a personal

vendetta force.

Yeah, it's not.

It's for the state.

But I mean, it's totally understandable why he would feel that way, obviously.

Now, Keon, who'd been a suspect in the fucking murders.

This poor bastard.

This poor bastard, he says, he's really pissed off.

He says, there's still a very empty void in myself and my family's hearts because we don't know.

We didn't get that satisfaction that the DeWitts got of a trial and a killer that admitted admitted

and he was found guilty of their crime.

We didn't get that.

Well, they didn't get that either.

He didn't admit it, and he wasn't found guilty.

It's an Alford plea.

So he just said they had evidence.

Ebony's father had a little different perspective.

This guy

is a nice man, I would assume, judging by what he says here.

Quote, I used to hate him for a while, but I had to get over that.

At first, I thought I used to want him dead.

I pray to God that while he's locked up, every time he closes his eyes, he sees them as he left them.

Now, now I just feel like, no, what he's got is the best thing for him.

I don't want to give him any real estate in my mental space, so he's where he needs to be.

Healthy.

Healthy.

He did some therapy, that guy, is what that is.

So he can appeal federally, and he does.

Oh.

He's allowed to appeal federally because there's no deal there.

What's he going to do?

Three points of error here that he points out.

One, that the court erred in denying his motion to suppress evidence seized pursuant to the supplemental search warrant, the whole thing he was trying to get done pretrial.

They said that the affidavit supporting the warrant that authorizes the search or seizure must provide the magistrate with a substantial basis for determining the existence of probable cause in light of the totality of circumstances.

To establish probable cause, the facts presented to the magistrate need only to warrant a man of reasonable caution to believe that the evidence of a crime will be found.

The standard requires that the supporting affidavit make it clear to a responsible person that there is some nexus between the items to be seized and the criminal activity being investigated.

He contends the affidavit accompanying this didn't do that.

Specifically, that there is insufficient connection between the crimes listed in the affidavit, possession and sale of stolen firearms and possession of firearms and all of that, with

the other shit, clothing which can be used to commit burglaries, certain electronic devices, burglary tools, scanners, financial documents related to acquiring and disposing of proceeds from burglaries.

Anyway,

they say that's basically horseshit.

They said a federal firearms licensee named JC Arms was burglarized.

Many of the firearms were stolen from that location.

The affidavit notes the agents who secured the residence and car saw various burglary tools in plain view view when they executed the search warrant.

So there's that.

Also that this

and also the Supreme Court held that many that the officers may draw inferences based on their own experience in deciding whether probable cause exists.

There has to be some leeway for a human being to make a human decision, basically.

Also, number two, that the court abused its discretion in allowing one of the somebody to testify, one of the agents to the county police sergeant

Stoffer, to testify as an expert regarding the relation of certain tools in Scott's possession to burglary.

So basically, he testified as a burglary expert, and they're saying that he shouldn't have been an expert.

Okay, he's not an expert.

Yeah, he testified saying that about the bolt cutter, screwdrivers, pry bar, black cap, black gloves, ski mask, hammer, binoculars, flashlight, and window punch,

saying that these are burglary tools.

I've done burglary a long time.

And they said he shouldn't have been admitted as an expert, which is completely up to the judge, by the way.

There's no standard of expertise.

So they found out that he's worked on the force for 15 years, investigated and supervised the investigation of more than 2,000 burglaries and made more than 100 arrests involving burglaries, attended two schools where he received training in identifying burglary tools.

He's their burglary guy.

He's the guy.

And also, number three, that the court should have declared a mistrial due to the government's discovery violation so that's tied to point one of this

okay now um they say keep on keeping on fuckbag go yeah stick around yeah eat how about that now this has had some serious impact on these families as you can imagine

courtney is feels horrible Yeah, she came home to find them gone.

Yeah.

And she said, my family was everything to me, my mom, my dad, my sister.

I didn't have a worry in the world.

And Kirk Sr., Chris's father,

said that Jason Scott, we feel like he didn't just, he wasn't just responsible for two murders.

He's responsible for three because my family and my son Kirk Jr.

never recovered.

Speaking of Kirk Jr.,

2019, Kirk Jr.,

he was struggling with depression and alcoholism for years after the murders.

He ended ended up at 28 years old, dying in a hotel room from alcohol poisoning.

Drank himself to death in a fucking hotel room.

At 28.

You got to really try to do that.

28.

Suicide.

Yeah.

You got to live like fucking Janice Joplin and

Amy Wynne.

And Elvis.

Yeah, you got to be jamming yourself full of all kinds of shit.

That poor kid.

Kirk Sr.

said he died from alcohol.

Jason Scott definitely played a part in it.

Jason Scott, he's responsible for three murders.

He said, there's that.

He said,

he went through a very dark period.

He was drinking, very depressed, and everything for years.

Craig McDonald here, Ebony's father, said that he has nightmares that never go away.

He said, I have nightmares.

Some nights I wake up in the middle of the night crying.

Some nights it's like it just happened.

He said, though, I try to help somebody every day in the name of my daughter.

So he volunteers with young people in the way of honoring, as a way of honoring Ebony's memory.

He sounds like a real nice guy.

That was the guy that said, I hated Jason at first, but now I'm like, you know what?

What the fuck, man?

I'm not going to let this bother me.

Yep, he does an annual remembrance where people around the country wear green because that was Karen and Carissa's favorite color and pray for them.

He also launched a clothing line called Butterfly Kisses in memory of Carissa, who wanted to be a fashion designer overall.

Now, this case has

become a teaching tool for criminal justice programs all over the place and law enforcement too.

And for UPS to stay off the computers.

Now, he,

yeah, because this is one of these things where you can't take the differing MOs as concrete evidence type of thing.

Like, everything you've heard before,

it's evolved, essentially.

The public is well aware of how you do what you do,

and really bad guys are going to try to combat what you do.

Absolutely.

Police departments now receive training on recognizing patterns in seemingly unrelated crimes, especially when those crimes show evidence of planning and technological sophistication.

They said that his case has contributed to research on what experts call organized defenders, criminals who use intelligence planning and technological sophistication.

His case is frequently cited in academic literature about the evolution of the behavior in the criminal age.

That's one of the things they said, too.

It wasn't just the different MOs, it was organized and disorganized.

He said, this killer organized, that killer disorganized.

These are two different killers because

not only is our MO different, they're whole.

One's sloppy and one's not.

Yeah.

So the case demonstrated the importance of interagency cooperation and information sharing.

And federal agencies have updated their procedures for handling cases where suspects have access to computer databases through their employment as well.

He is in Tucson in federal prison.

Is that right?

Absolutely.

Go down and visit him.

It just says Tucson Federal Prison, so I'm not sure.

Not Florence.

It's Florence's state.

Isn't Florence a state prison, too?

I think it is.

They indicate that he's been a model prisoner.

Of course he has.

Because he's a nerd.

The only things he ever did wrong was all of this crime shit, everything else.

He doesn't want anybody to know what a bad guy he is.

UPS loved him.

He loved him.

He's a quiet, compliant, and causes no disciplinary problems.

Because he's a pussy.

Yeah.

Also.

That's the other thing.

He's probably just avoiding getting stabbed.

His earliest possible release date is hilarious because,

yeah, he'd be like over 100 on the federal stuff and then, and he's got to serve 85% on that and 80% for the Maryland thing.

He's fucked.

He's done.

So even with good time credits and all that, they're saying he wouldn't get out before he's like 140.

So

he is donezo.

So there you go, everybody.

There.

2183.

Yeah.

Jesus Christ.

There is Largo, Maryland.

and there is some wild fucking case of a serial killer.

Who's never that?

Why is that not?

You know what I mean?

That's.

He should be everywhere.

It was so recent.

Like the cop said, he's going to be one of the most famous serial killers.

You ever heard of him?

I've never heard of him.

He did this almost 20 years ago.

Isn't that crazy?

So, anyway, if you like the show, get out of whatever rap you're listening on.

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And that happens right now.

Jimmy, hit me with the names of the people who would never, ever, ever videotape us while torturing us.

Jimmy, hit me with them right fucking now.

This week's executive producer, Christy Heinz, Kyle Norwick, Gary Howard, Jessica Shelton, Allie Deutsch,

and Amanda.

Thank you all

so much for everything you do.

You're fantastic.

Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows.

Happy birthday, Barnyard.

Whatever Barnyard is.

I hope it's a great day.

Janice Hill, happy hour checking in in Galveston, Texas at the beach.

Oh, boy.

You better, if it gets cloudy, get the fuck out of there.

Exact tax solutions.

Bill Thrash.

No, that's Bill.

Trash Panda Clausen.

Shakai, 9,000.

Jessica Lynn.

Katie with no last name.

Heather Zawa Zowislack.

Zowy Slack.

Oh, boy.

Bever.

Bever?

Bever.

Or Nalis.

What did I do?

Is that Beverly?

And I fucking probably.

I think it's Beverly.

Whoops, a Daisy.

Heidi Allen, Amelia Bibbles, Michael King, Mark with no last name, Dion with no last name, Jen

Pappenhagen, Don Tesselle, Kelly Truesdale, Jelena Bogich, Bogich, Dina with no last name, Alex Kubeska, T.A.

Melissa or Melissa, maybe.

Jenny Martin, Vex with no last name, Jason Mick, Rodney Hogan, Colby Hansen, Heed.

Nope, that's head.

Maybe it's me.

Oh, head asshole.

There it is.

Maybe it's

not Heed, it's Head.

Head asshole.

Yep, you get it.

M, J, and L, those letters.

Tracy Wood, Allie would know last name.

Travis 77, Anna Nelson, Drusilla, Drusilla, Drusilla?

That's right.

Karen Clark, Jerry Rothman, and Nikki M.

Nicholas Loney,

Kristen Wells, Frank Caiello, Brooke and Emberly, Joseph Carney,

Katie W, Cecilia Bowen, Jake LaRoss, Leif Laif Lafruana, Stacey Z, Chris Riley, Lissette Marte,

maybe Marty, Mindy Brashir, Nathan Cowan, Jessia, Jessa, Jessia, Rimland, Alex Carter, Lift Heavy, Run Long, Angela McBrear, Christy Reed,

Katerina Nemitz, Arin, what?

Aron?

I'm having some troubles today.

That is

Aurora, but then Aaron at the end there.

PBH.

Maybe Aurora and Aaron.

Perhaps.

It's two people.

Hanny.

Aurora.

Hane.

Schmichael.

Schmeckle?

Is your name Schmeckle?

Hey, Schmichel.

Thank you, Schmichel.

Haney?

Hani.

Elizabeth Thornton.

Melinda Franks.

Ashley Martinez, Carla McDonald,

Cynthia with no last name.

Chantelle Chambers, Vincent Quigny, Aaron Gunther, Alicia L., Lee Taylor, Lord Travis Baroker, the first of his name, Kale Cavender, Jess with no last name, Jeremy St.

Hilaire, Hillary, Hilary, Meg Norris, Lil Bitt,

Batty Ray, Jane Wolf, Kate with no last name, Bethany Bolt, Kate with a K and an eight, Colin with no last name, Ashley Howard Janet with no last name, Chiquita DeJesus, Ashley Rain, Paula Frisane, Freesen, a Bald Sting, Brian Bailey, Justin with no last name, Eliza Jane, Kira Pritchard, Steve Hayes, Tara Bush, KT with no last name, Brian Greeley, T-Doc72, Cake with no last name,

or it's a shoe or a steak.

Steak, but it could be cake.

Courtney with no last name.

Edward Sizler, Seisler, Brandi Kemp, Alyssa Mize,

Dana Mueller, Chris Harris, Kelly Stewart, Grace Johnson, Danny Carpenter, Maggie King, Jacqueline Price, Aaron Buell, Tobias and Sarah, Jalen Gardner, Maura Carney, Dorothy Collins, Aaron Kettle,

Amanda

Lee, Ledin, Ledin, Shannon G., Courtney Diane, Robert Voitek, Hellboy2112, Danielle Charles, Leanne Carter,

Summer Pike Smith, Johnny with no last name, Lori Wiley, Catherine

Vanaglia,

is that right?

Matt Adelano, Karen McDonnell, Marty Rice D with no last name, Julie Gallagher, Andrea Wadool, Wadule, Cassandra Maloney,

Jerry King, Shane Vowell, Sarah Woods, Jamie Curtis, or without the Lee, JC Corral, Coral with no last name, the Chojin, the Chojin one, Nathaniel Stevens, Jackson with no last name, JDC, Sam Richardson, Alexander in Uganda, John Madden.

Oh, how about that?

Forgot that.

There he is.

Isa Isa Viad, eight, Paul Christopher Christopherson, Richard John Schmidt, Brendan Wiley, Willie, Willie, Jill E., April Davis, Shea Grant, Richard Bologna, Bologna, Bologna, Desiree Carey, Angelina with no last name, Chris Reskrat,

Rexrat, Harris, Jesus, Maddie, Maddie Kelly, Sid Jenkins, Webby, 1978, Fran Strouch, David Benefil, Benefil, Benefil,

possibly the dog food,

David Hunt, Kayla with no last name, Blake Malone, Ginny, Ginny Gilbert, Ginny Gilbert, Ivan Solis, P, just the letter P, Andrea Razzo, Rich Bergen, the video games show podcast, Heather Schabel, and all of our patrons.

Thank you all so much.

Thank you, everybody, so much from the bottom of our hearts.

We cannot thank you enough for all that you do for us.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Tell your friends, keep listening, keep telling everybody about it, keep coming back and seeing us.

Head over to shutupandgivemeurder.com if you want to find out where to follow us on social media.

Drop-down menus take you where you need to go.

And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

Bye.

At Coldwater Creek, we take a thoughtful approach to design, giving attention to what matters most to you.

From quality fabrics to the fits you love to artful details that captivate, Coldwater Creek caters to your wardrobe in every season, for every occasion, and in every size.

We create comfortable, confident styles with endless versatility that reflect the life you live.

Pure, natural fabrics, and soft textures that move with you throughout your day.

Each garment tells a story of craftsmanship and care, created with a purpose and designed with precision.

We celebrate what makes you unique with silhouettes that flatter and styles that let your authentic self shine through.

Discover why Coldwater Creek is the sought-after choice in women's clothing.

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