Brutal Murder, Stupid Murderer - Garfield, New Jersey

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This week, in Garfield, New Jersey, the disappearance of a beloved young woman leads detectives down a dark road looking into a man with a disturbing past and family who leaves little doubt that he's capable of brutality.

But did he actually do it?

Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

Yay!

Oh, yay, indeed, Jimmy.

Yay, indeed.

My name is James Petrogallo.

I'm here with my co-host.

I am Jimmy Wisman.

Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another absolutely crazy episode of Small Town Murder.

As usual, we do not let up.

This is, poof.

Boy, what a lot of craziness we've got today, man.

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By the way, there's more.

There's more.

Well, this week, for crime and sports, we're going to do amusement park disasters again.

It's so great.

It's been months since we've done that.

And it just keeps happening.

It just keeps happening.

And then for small town murder, it's back, everybody.

The prisoner dating game is back.

That's right.

I'm going to line up four bachelors, four bachelorettes, and Jimmy will have to choose one of them.

The only things they have in common are they're all violent felons and they're all currently incarcerated so then at the end he gets to find out what his chosen his betrothed has done to earn their time so that's a lot of fun there that is patreon.com slash crimeinsports and as jimmy there it is alluded to before you now get all three shows crime and sports your stupid opinions and both small town murder shows ad-free on patreon as well we give you all we can with this

we're still going that's all we can do find find a better deal for find a a better deal.

Yeah, we can come over, like clean your gutters.

Other than that, we have nothing else to do for you.

So do that.

And you get a shout out at the end of the show.

There's even more.

It comes more.

So that said, I think it's time for the disclaimer.

This is a comedy show.

We're comedians.

There's going to be horrible murder.

We're definitely going to make jokes.

Here's how it works, though.

We never make jokes about the victims

or the victims' families.

Why is that, James?

Because we're assholes.

What?

But we're not scumbags.

There you go.

It's pretty simple how that works there.

You can definitely.

I mean, people say, get away with murder.

That's someone to make fun of.

We make fun of murderers.

We make fun of a small town.

We're all from somewhere small that we want to make fun of.

Who cares?

You should hear the episode I did about where I'm from.

Brutalize the place.

So it doesn't matter.

Either way, check it out because I think you're going to like it.

And if you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, maybe we're not for you.

I don't know.

But we might be.

You never know.

Either way, no complaining later is what we're saying here.

That said, I think it's time everybody to sit back.

What do you say here?

Let's all clear the lungs here and let's all shout.

Shut up

and give me

murder.

Let's do this, everybody.

Let's go on a trip.

Shall we?

All right.

We are going to New Jersey this week, and we're going to Garfield, New Jersey.

Yeah.

Like the cat.

A lot of fans of Henson.

Leve Henson?

No.

No.

Jim Davis.

Davis.

Yes.

I don't know why I remember them, but.

Jim Davis.

So Garfield, New Jersey, Northeastern New Jersey, this is in.

not very far from where we are now.

We get there in under two hours, probably.

This is about 30 minutes to New York City.

So very commutable.

Sure.

It's going to be expensive based on.

Oh, we'll find out.

About an hour and 35 to Philly, the other way.

New York and Philly are so close, and people don't realize that.

They're so close.

And about an hour to Wantage Township, New Jersey, which was our last Jersey episode, episode 572, The Murderous Male Stripper.

None of this.

Which was a crazy-ass episode.

So this is in Bergen County, as you might hear a lot of in Sopranos.

They talk about Bergen County and also an awful lot.

Area code 973

and the motto here is the city of champions.

Is it?

Yeah, I don't know.

What champs they got?

Because Pittsburgh doesn't exist anymore.

Green Bay, and there's a few others.

Chicago.

Pittsburgh is city of champions.

Tidal Town USA is what Green Bay calls themselves.

What does Detroit call themselves?

Hockey Town.

They call themselves Don't Drink the Water, I believe, last time I checked.

That's their motto.

Oh, boy.

That's their motto.

It's not quite clear.

Be careful of that.

It's boil before you drink, I believe, is their motto.

Boil before you drink.

Little bit of history.

That's their motto.

We boil.

Detroit, we boil.

A little bit or flint, actually, but whatever.

Whatever.

It's close enough.

Sure, it's close enough where I'm not drinking the water.

Put it that way.

The Lenape tribe were here first.

European settlement came back to, dates all the way back to 1679.

Wow.

The area that is now Garfield was developed in 1873.

It was just seven homes that were the original.

That was the original town.

And it was known as East Passaic.

East Passaic, seven houses.

Yeah.

That's it.

In 1881, they changed their name, though, to Garfield in honor of, at the time, President James Garfield.

Sure.

Yeah.

Okay.

Big supporter of Garfield here.

Fat Garfield.

Seven months later, he was assassinated.

Garfield.

So popular that he was murdered.

And

so then they said, all right, well, they named the train station in his honor since he just died, and then it just stuck.

And it was Garfield from then on.

Who became president after Garfield?

Oh, God.

Who the hell was it?

Was it Arthur?

Garfield.

Shit.

Was it Arthur?

It was him or.

God damn it.

I apologize.

I don't think it was Grant before that.

I don't know.

it was grant then garfield then okay it doesn't matter we're getting we're getting bogged down in details uh art this is a great line this is from their website garfield almost had a horse trolley in 1990

i don't know what happened but it almost happened didn't happen

i don't know how you it was a i don't know how you almost have a horse trolley

and then and then close it was so close that we it's notable to talk about it we were right there we had the horses lined up with i don't know it was weird we had the trolleys, no horse.

No, never mind.

So the city of champions came because in 1939,

Garfield's high school football team was national champions.

One time.

In 1939.

One time almost 100 years ago.

Well, also, the Garfield Cadets were frequently winning the national drum and bugle corps championships.

And then Tippy Larkin,

the Garfield gunner, was junior welterweight boxing champion of the world in 1946.

So in the 40s, they were something to be.

This is some hot shit in the 40s, and this is the place to be.

Reviews of this town, only 3.1 stars on niche, which is

out of five, which is way lower than normal for a town.

Here's five stars.

Garfield is a wonderful town to live in.

It is very safe and quiet.

There's lots of park stores and restaurants located right in town.

Great.

Oh, boy.

So you can save valuable time not having to drive far.

Garfield is close to all the major highways, close to Manhattan and ideal for commuters.

It's a great place to call home.

All the major highways.

So that's the range of reviews here are wild because it goes from that to like dystopian wasteland.

Everything's accessible, even roads to get to even more accessible.

Even more accessible shit.

Wait till you hear some of them.

Here's three stars.

Garfield is great if you're looking for a nice, quiet suburb to start a family in.

However, Garfield lacks fun.

Well, you know, it's 30 minutes away, Manhattan, where everything exists.

Literally, the city that never sleeps is right there.

It's like 12 miles away.

You could walk there.

You couldn't have more shit to do.

Right?

There aren't many restaurants or fun

or fun get-out activities for you to take advantage of in the neighborhood.

Some closeby neighborhoods do harbor some of those fun activities, harbor them like they're fugitives.

Or resentment.

Exactly.

Either one.

Some of those fun activities you may be interested in.

Okay, that's three stars.

And then it gets bad from there.

Oh, boy.

One star.

Garfield is known as Garbage Field.

Is it?

Due to its declining reputation.

We just found out.

I guess so.

Rents are through the roof, and it's technically in Bergen County.

No parking anywhere.

Schools were the worst I've ever attended.

I used to cut class because I couldn't handle the 95-plus-degree heat.

Is that why?

That's why.

Not because you were failing out, probably.

I had schools with no air conditioning, too, and it sucked.

And you just went to school.

It's the Northeast, man.

we got no air conditioning it's rare the good restaurants have left due to greedy landlords is that why it is yeah so he just hates everybody

the people who own landowners there they suck

new people you suck too what do you who are you for the school system is really wasting their money uh one star this town is turning into trash with the type of people that are moving in prescott avenue used to be nice but when one trash bag moves and they all follow one trash bag one trash bag and then one star, as I have previously stated, the streets are dangerous because gangs are on every corner.

Every corner?

Wait, you hear the crime rate?

All right.

It's on every corner.

Every corner, mind you.

Think about it.

Okay.

People in this town, 32,481.

It's a pretty good size.

So decent size.

Five to seven houses.

But not huge by far for 30 minutes from Manhattan.

Few more ladies than men here, about 50.3% women.

Median age is like exactly the national average, 38.3.

38.4 is the national average.

It's 49% married, 50-50 is the average.

A few more single with children, but not too far out of the range of normal.

Race in this town, 56.4% white, 3.6% black, 2.1% Asian, 35.8% Hispanic.

65% of the people here are religious.

That is way high.

50-50 is the norm here.

This is Utah levels of religion.

And no shock here, 49.6% of the people here are Catholic.

As we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the North.

Obviously, they can't get rid of them.

They're everybody.

Oh, my God.

Ash Wednesday is wild up here.

It's a party.

Everybody's dirty.

It's a filthy party up here.

Tell you what.

A little bit high unemployment rate.

Median household income here is just below the national average.

It's $66,296.

Not bad.

And the average is $69,021.

Cost of living, a little bit high.

Yeah.

A little high on the cost of living.

You do it.

100 is average.

Here, it's $141.

And the housing is the highest thing of all.

Median home cost here, $433,600,

which is about $100,000 more than the rest of the country.

That's so expensive.

That is expensive.

I mean, so if you need to get to Manhattan quickly, you don't want to have fun, and you don't mind gangs on every corner, we have for you the Garfield, New Jersey Real Estate Report.

Average two-bedroom rental here, pricey, $1,760, which is crazy.

It's $500 more than the national average.

But if you live in Manhattan, a two-bedroom is

$5,000.

So, you know, it's impossible.

Yeah, so to commute, it's not bad.

First house here, I don't know what they're thinking.

It's a three-bedroom, one-bath.

Barely any of the houses in New Jersey have square square footage, by the way.

Look at this house, bro.

You have to look at the picture of it is crooked.

Yeah, that's not selling shit.

These are the only two pictures.

A crooked picture of a small overgrown backyard and a crooked picture of a front.

I don't even know what's on.

Or is it level?

And it's a Charlie Buckets house.

We have no idea what's going on here, but this house is $395,000.

Wow.

Not sure what's going on with it.

It's sliding and it needs a haircut.

And it does.

Well, apparently it says on the listing, the only description is affordable Bergen County property needs new owner's vision.

Okay.

Needs a vision, all right.

I like to see it straight, first of all.

Next up, three-bedroom, two-bath, small lot.

It's a nice little house, wood floors.

I mean, you can see it's nothing.

Oh, that's adorable.

It's a nice little house, but it's $600,000.

How?

Justify that.

That's so dumb.

It can't be more than 1,500 square feet.

No house.

It's a small, it's a little, nice little house, but it is real expensive

how many acres nothing nothing 4 791 square feet lot

that's a lot and you can see the houses next door and behind it are right on top of it i mean it's it's pretty goddamn over half a million dollars way over six hundred thousand and then finally you know what it's uh i don't even know how many bedrooms bathrooms or square feet but we're going to take a chance here everybody roll the dice we're going to open a business because there's a business with an apartment above it so we're going to live in that it was a juice Coffee Activated.

That was the name of the business that apparently is no longer a business because it's completely empty.

Booty cleanse.

Not sure what's going on there, but

it just got reduced to $100,000.

I think it's on like it's on 55 Passaic Street.

It's on like the main drag.

We're taking a chance, everybody.

We're opening up Taffy.

$999,999 bucks.

A million dollars.

A million dollars.

Let's do it in South Africa.

Business and apartment.

You can in New Jersey.

It's great.

Things to do here.

Not a lot going going on in this town, I got to say.

Tried to find it.

There's just not a lot.

I found the Garfields Fall Family Fun Street Fair.

That's a lot of Fs.

And it is not, that person was right.

There's no fun to be had.

Unless you're four, this doesn't sound like a good time at all.

It says you can be sure they'll have something special during the spring and summer and fall and holiday seasons.

These events include street fairs.

They do it four times a year?

They do other ones.

They do food truck festivals, vendor pop-ups, vintage marketplaces, flea markets and collectibles, and a women's lifestyle expo.

It's just an expo to sell shit.

Yeah, there's this group here, this company that basically puts on public whatever the fuck every once in a while.

So the family street fair is literally like a bouncy house

and some like snow cones for sale.

Like there's not really a lot going on.

The only other thing I could find here is the whole lot of empanada festival.

All right.

It's got the whole lot of empanada.

I'll try that.

Why not?

They claim there will be food trucks, a beer garden, live music that is so impressive that they've chosen not to list any of the bands because you don't want to overwhelm the festival grounds with people.

That's the thing.

If you announce the bands, it's going to be too many people.

They got to keep it low-key.

You know what I'm saying?

You say live music, and then it's, you know, you got enough.

You got to hope and cross your fingers.

Show up and hope Terry's there.

Maybe he's going to be.

That's what you're looking for.

Somebody's going to be there.

We got the, what was the name of that guy from, Jesus, from a couple years ago in one of the Jersey episodes, the Italian guy who was

damn it.

We had a whole thing going on with that guy.

Listeners, you will tell us, I'm sure.

It's been a minute.

It's been a minute, but you will tell us.

I guarantee you'll tell us.

I can't remember.

God, he was the free pocket and it's for the kids and all that shit.

Oh, man, that was funny.

Was it Joey something?

Probably.

Frank.

Frank something.

I'm not sure.

Peter.

I don't know.

Something.

Everybody was named Peter or Paul.

Stop doing it, including confusing him.

I get confused myself.

Uncle Paul, he got confused.

So there's live music, a rock wall,

a bungee trampoline.

Oh, yeah, I've seen those.

What the fuck is that?

So you can jump higher on the trampoline.

They do them in the fucking mall.

Oh, you know, those things.

Yeah, where they tie you up and let you bounce higher.

Yeah, my mom was such a good mom.

She let my little brother do that in Mexico when he was five.

In Mexico on the street.

I'm like, there's no regulation.

I was like 13 going, there's no regulations.

What are you doing?

He's like, he'll be fine.

He gets hurt.

Who are we suing?

Jesus Christ.

Obstacle course, face painting, sand art, bounce house, vendors, mini golf, and of course, the empanada eating contest.

We're throwing down.

It's empanada time.

They fill those with all kinds of different things, right?

It's not just apples or cherries.

There's all sorts of different kinds of empanadas.

I think it's like kind of a sandwich.

You could just make it in anything.

You put anything between bread.

You put anything in this thing and fry it.

It's an empanadas.

That's all it is.

It's all it is.

So this is at the 75 Elizabeth Street in Garfield at the 20th Century Field.

Yeah.

Is Elizabeth?

Is that

homage to the queen?

Is that what they did?

Is that why there's so much Elizabeth around that?

Probably.

Probably.

I would assume so.

Well, no, because Elizabeth, unless there was another Elizabeth in the 1600s or something, which is very possible.

I don't don't know.

Because not this older.

That's what I mean.

No, no, no.

She was like Elizabeth VIII or something.

Yeah, everybody was already named.

I'm sure there was some old hag they named it after.

Some old royal twat got her name.

Some bitch tapping people on the shoulders with a sword.

Slapped her name all over this fucking shit.

So crime rate in this town.

What we're interested in, because I need to know

how many are on the corner.

Property crime under the national average.

Okay.

Just under.

Not too far, but not even at the national average.

Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime, what Gangs on Every Corner specialize in, one quarter under the national average.

Gangs on Every Corner.

Run!

Run for your lives.

Maybe they're just nice.

Maybe they're like doo-wop gangs and they don't understand it.

They're probably like 75-year-old men with like leather jackets singing.

Singing around a fire.

Singing around a fire, just like from like Rocky One.

You know, like maybe that's what it is.

And they're like, oh no, gangs.

A lot of snapping.

Yeah, it's a

I love you so.

It's always that.

It's always like the most tender song.

They're never singing anything anybody wants to hear.

Singing around burning trash while wearing leather jackets on the street going, baby, I love you.

Singing to some lady named Mary.

What the fuck?

Fucking ridiculous.

So there you go.

It's not, I would say the gangs on every corner might be overblown slightly.

They may have seen one or two, but they haven't seen a lot.

They're not very active if they are because it's under the national average.

Gossel people.

Yeah,

we do towns in Iowa where it's right at the national average, so you're safer than that.

I mean, I don't know.

Farm towns.

Anyway, that said, let's talk about some murders.

All right.

All right.

Let's get into this now.

All right.

Let's start off with a young lady

here.

Her name is Sandra Terranova.

Right.

So right away, we're jumping in with the Italian-ness here and with a last name almost as long as mine.

She's one letter shy.

Sorry, Sandy.

It's a lot still.

It's a lot.

It's a handful, but it's one letter shy of me.

But Sandra Terranova, she's born about 1976, Sandra is.

Grows up in the Paramis area around here.

Graduates from Paramas High in 1993.

Big city gal.

Oh, yeah.

Well, it's close anyway.

So

I have found her yearbook thing, and under it, it said, this is like her senior yearbook stuff.

It says her nicknames are Sange.

What?

I don't know.

Sandra.

Sandra.

Sange.

With a G with a J like Sand I guess Sandra and the New York accent yeah Sandra

and the D disappears fast and teratoe which I don't know where that came from I don't know if she's got a weird toe or what but teratoe I don't know

she her senior quote is if you haven't got your health you haven't got anything

yeah so not normal for usually like a senior in high school say something concerned about your that's something like your grandmother would tell you right you know what I mean?

Listen, I'm going to tell you this: everyone gives you all the advice.

If you haven't got your health, sweetie, you haven't got anything.

You haven't got anything at all.

Believe me, believe me.

Take it from me.

There's always a belief.

Believe me.

Yeah, like you know, after over the years, you'll understand.

I know better than anybody.

Believe me.

Believe me.

I go to the doctor four times a week.

Every time I leave, he says, You're doing great.

And I go, Well, if you haven't got your health, you haven't got anything at all.

Anything at all.

Anything at all.

I'm sorry.

So she's, so obviously she's forward-thinking.

She does a lot of like

sports activities, ski club, cross-country track, softball, spring track, and tennis.

You got to stay busy, James.

Because you heard about James.

She's moving.

She's taking it seriously.

She's like, I got to get some exercise.

By 1997 now.

So she graduates from Paramus High in 1993.

And

she kicks around a little bit and she moves, as we'll talk about, kind of around the area, like every kid.

She's trying to get settled and figure it out.

And she's got a boyfriend who we'll talk about that's kind of on and off so she sees other guys she's a young lady she's doing it why not so by 1997 she's got a new apartment great and looks like everything's going well this is in garfield so it looks like things are going to go well for her she moved into her apartment in like spring of 97 and she had previously lived on uh Palisades at Palisade Avenue in Garfield.

College she was back in those days.

I think she was working, yeah.

And then she lived with her parents for a little while.

while.

And she also, at one point, lived in Italy for a bit.

Wow.

After she graduated,

her family sent her to live in Italy so she would stop seeing her boyfriend.

Oh, that is

shit as he.

That's another continent, man.

See, I need an ocean between you two.

I'm sending you in the old country.

This is wild.

Yeah, we're sending you, like, we have cousins over there.

You're going to live there.

You'll meet people you've never met.

That'd be wild.

And they're all related to you.

I was just thinking about that as I was putting this together, and I was like, what if someone sent me there?

Like, you're going to live with your cousins and aunts and uncles that you don't know.

I'd be like, what the fuck?

I don't even.

I need you to get away from your wife.

Yeah.

What?

That's wild.

Well, that would have been a good move if someone had done it at some point, but they didn't.

But she was sent to live with family in Italy just to get away from this guy that they didn't like the road she was going on with this guy.

So like, hey, how about you move to Italy?

He might be exciting.

You might be in a nice guy in some really short shorts and fall in love.

I mean, yeah, he'll grope you and

probably

yell things at you from a sidewalk as he cruises by in a Vespa.

But don't worry about it.

It's a nice dinner.

I'm telling you, it'll be fine.

So, otherwise, she doesn't really do a lot of crazy stuff.

She likes romance novels and stuff like that.

She likes to play cards with her friends and hang out with her friends.

She's a young lady.

You know what I mean?

She has a job

here.

She is the co-manager at the Rampage clothing store at the Garden State Plaza in Paramas.

Yeah.

So that's.

You know, that shit just recently stopped being, you know what I mean?

Rampage.

Wasn't that a store?

I mean, it obviously was.

This was in the 90s.

I see pink lettering, like

slams.

See the thing.

Yeah.

I remember it from like malls in the 90s.

I don't know.

I remember the last time I saw it.

I feel like it fairly recently still, like Forever 21.

I haven't been in malls that much to know.

I got a 14-year-old now, so I'm doing that shit.

You live right by a mall.

Yeah, there's a million dollars.

You live right by a giant mall.

I'm doing that shit.

I spend hours every few months in a fucking mall.

I have a wife that also hates the mall.

And a 20-something daughter and an 18-year-old son.

And your mall time is done for you.

My mall time is over.

Yeah.

It's good.

Oh, the dream.

We're living our mall-free.

We're entering our mall-free years now, really, is what that is.

That's what you call those times when your kids grow up.

You call them your mall-free years.

Because then, after a while, once you're like 75, then you're back at the mall again, but you're there right before they open so you can walk it.

But you have non-mall years.

The mall's very important from the time you're a child all the way through your children.

The mall is very important.

In a pair of shoes that kids frown at.

Oh, terrible.

Rounded at the bottom, all weird.

Then for like 30, 40 years, no mall.

Yeah.

And then back at the mall again.

It becomes very important.

It's a fascinating place now because things are changing so rapidly.

Like different stores.

There's weird fucking things in the mall now.

There's only two that are popular, three, I guess, in Arizona.

There'll be a store that just sells like Croatian Doritos.

And you're like, where am I right now?

How is this staying in business?

And that China toy store, there's that one.

Yeah, that too.

And now they've got this thing called Round.

I don't know what the fuck.

It's like

an experience store where it's in the fucking mall.

And they do like birthday parties.

There's karaoke

giant claw machines

crazy fucking video games it's like a giant chucky cheese without the pizza it's like right it's but it's like a it's like how you would expect something in hong kong or fucking toky yeah it's like it's crazy stuff strange south korean yeah birthday and like a crane machine where you get giant bouncy balls oh so the machine is fucking enormous it's got to be if it's got to be it's just a crazy thing

and that's what's in their mall now so weird well this is what's what's in her mall then.

So Sandra and her mall, she's, like I said, it's a women's clothing store in the Garden State Plaza Mall in Paramas.

And on Friday, August the 15th,

her assistant manager, Janati Zareski

there, gets a little worried about her.

And so does a coworker named Barbie

Kaskasis?

Hell yeah.

Barbie.

Barbie and Janati are worried about you because she wasn't at work on Thursday, which is not normal for her.

She usually shows up.

It's a shift.

But Friday's payday.

Friday the 15th is paycheck day.

That's when you get in there.

So she'll be there.

You know, she's not going to miss tomorrow.

She's doing first and 15th.

But yeah, she no-called, no-show.

I think it's every Friday, whatever, either way.

I think she didn't show up on the Thursday, but they're like, she'll definitely be here on Friday.

We don't have to worry about that.

But then she didn't show up and get her paycheck on Friday.

So now everybody gets worried.

If a 23-year-old doesn't show up or 21-year-old shows up and doesn't show up to get her paycheck, there's a problem.

I would have crawled through broken glass to get a paycheck.

Wait, where is this?

It's a 97.

Yeah.

Direct deposit.

It doesn't exist.

You have to pick up a check and go bring it to the bank or you don't have any money.

That's it.

So they ended up calling the police to say, you know, can you go check on her?

Because she hasn't shown up and we don't know what's going on.

The cop said, okay.

And they all kept saying, you really, really make sure you check out her her boyfriend.

Make sure you look at her for her ex-boyfriend.

Talk to her ex-boyfriend.

If anything happened, talk to her ex-boyfriend because he's a weirdo, okay?

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Now back to the show.

Now, her ex-boyfriend, his name is Kevin Planker.

P-L-A-N-K-E-R.

Planker.

Now, Kevin, same age, 21, they were high school sweethearts, these two.

And then after high school, it got a little bit rocky.

And during high school, but after high school, it got a little bit rocky.

Family sent her to Italy to forget about Kevin.

And Kevin.

To forget about Kevin.

Yeah, to go over there and, you know, start to clear the slate.

You know, Just spread some gelato on that slate and clear it.

Meet a European.

Just get the fuck out of here.

Just do something.

Yeah, put some mozzarella on it.

Don't worry about it.

It heals everything.

Heals all.

It really does.

We found that out last night.

Mozzarella is good.

Feels good.

It feels great.

So Kevin here, they met in high school.

It's always a stormy relationship.

But like I said, after high school, it got worse.

Then they kind of broke up and then they would fall back again.

And, you know, kind of typical young relationship.

Sure.

They can't get away from each other.

Now, her neighbor chad yeah this is another person here that knows her that's her friend and neighbor uh chad said that she had told chad sandra had told chad that even though she knew kevin had problems she always thought until recently that he could overcome them and they would be together and he would be fine and the person she always wanted him to be i can fix him yeah is essentially what she said um and uh they uh chad said she knew he had a good heart, even though he was kind of crazy.

Oh, she was all he had.

He probably couldn't handle breaking up with her.

We'll find out.

She is not all he has.

He is

dipping his stick all over New Jersey.

He is getting popping fucking kids in people's bellies.

What?

Oh, yeah.

Don't do that.

21.

He is insperminating the whole town.

Really?

Ridiculous.

Yeah, we'll talk about that.

Chad described this Sandra as a strictly work, home, and to bed type.

Nice.

Homebody.

She's 21.

She doesn't go out to the bars.

She comes home, reads a book.

And goes to bed.

Literally, that's what she does.

She goes and talks to her neighbor for a while.

She's not wild at all.

And also, she had just gotten another job, a second job, at the Old Navy store in Wayne.

Oh, that's new.

That's time.

Let's go.

It's hot shit at the time.

Yeah.

Oh, that fleece.

Oh, they got those goddamn commercials with.

No, the swing dancing was gap.

Never mind.

Old Navy had their own dumb commercials.

Old Navy was just like fake snow scenes.

Yeah, and all that works.

And a celebrity to tell you how great their fucking fleece is.

Better than Gap with their khakis.

Remember that?

People swing dancing to celebrate khakis.

I'm like, what is happening?

Why are we, why are you swing dancing?

Remember when khakis was like everything?

Remember when swing dancing was there something?

And Eddie Bauer was popular, too.

Oh, yeah.

And that shit is the most boring shit on the planet.

Just khaki.

Yeah.

It's all khaki.

And shit that goes with khaki.

Khaki and khaki adjacent items.

Chad also said she was scared of Kevin and didn't didn't want to be around him.

She was afraid he would come to the apartment.

But he says that, but he also always comes to the apartment.

He helps her move stuff into the apartment.

She asks him to come to the apartment.

I don't know what he's talking about there.

Chad said the first time he met Sandra was when she was moving into the apartment building, and he said she was the smallest thing and she was carrying a big box.

She was very independent.

He said she's little, like 500, 300 pounds.

Oh.

Little, chick.

Yeah.

And so she said she knew he said she knew what she wanted out of life and she had a lot going for her.

She's smart and she's strong.

Driven.

She's an aunt.

Strong.

Yeah, exactly.

She's got insect strength.

It's good.

So Chad said she had a good job, her own apartment, and a brand new car.

She told me all she wanted was to buy a house, get married, and have kids.

Apart from that last part, I like it.

Yeah, so she's very traditional.

You don't hear a lot of 21-year-olds now that are just like, I just want to buy a house, get married, and have kids.

They're like, we'll see what happens.

But that's all she was concerned about.

Now, a little bit about Planker here, Kevin Planker and the entire Planker family, because you cannot talk about Kevin Planker without talking about his father, Wayne.

Oh?

Oh, Wayne.

Oh, boy.

What does he do?

We'll talk about it here.

This is interesting.

Now, Kevin has a brother named Chris with a K.

Both K's.

Chris is born in 75, Kevin in 76.

So that's what we got going on here.

Kevin's a year younger, obviously.

Wayne is an auto mechanic.

Dad, he's an auto mechanic and boxing coach and ex-boxer.

From Jersey.

Used to be a Jersey boxer.

Yeah.

So a tough son of a bitch that has a wrench in his hand, probably, more than likely.

Now,

he gets

Chris and Kevin into boxing immediately because that's what he knows.

So by the time they were three, they were boxing.

Throwing punches.

Throwing punches, learning how to do everything, which is how you make a great boxer.

Yeah.

You don't see a lot of guys start at 23 and become champion.

Not a lot of Rocky Marcianos out there.

It also kind of teaches a kid how to fucking deal with rage.

How to deal with rage.

It's good for

obviously health.

It's good for discipline.

But what's bad is getting punched in the head a lot from a young age.

So if you can prevent that and using that.

And practicing is fine.

Yeah, that's also to get a kid to not go out out like Tyson did and use those skills on people

like we talked about.

Now, Kevin's a great boxer here.

Really, really good.

His brother Chris also.

His brother Chris won the Colorado Golden Gloves Intermediate Division when he was just 10.

And Kevin, our guy here, won a silver medal in the junior Olympics after winning both the New Jersey and Northeast regional tournaments when he was 15.

Why'd they go to Colorado to win?

That's where it was.

I'm not not sure.

You could enter different regions, I'm sure, or whatever.

Either way, that's they're champions.

They're good boxers.

Like, that's they have like a future boxing, these two.

And that's 15 is high school.

That's when he's going out with Sandra.

So when she meets him, he's this together guy

who is boxing and a champion and probably has a fuckload of confidence.

He's big, too.

He's 6'3 over 2.

Oh, my God.

And can throw a punch?

Stop it.

Beat the shit out of you.

So, I mean, he's a big, confident guy.

So it's attractive to high school girls.

Yeah.

Can defend my honor.

Fucking just has just that safety.

His chin's up.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

He's got confidence.

He's not

learning confidence at that age, like you can, you're going to conquer shit.

And when you travel and win things and do all that, you're just going to have a lot more confidence than the typical 15-year-old who's sitting in his room and jerking off and playing Sega Genesis and then coming to school and going, oh, you're really pretty.

You're not on the same level at that point.

So that's that's how that goes.

Now, 1991, when Kevin's about 15, when this is all going on, it's really the peak of his life here.

He's doing great.

There's fluff pieces in the newspaper about his family.

And this will just be a minute, and then it'll get real.

You'll be, in a few minutes, you're going to be happy that I was telling you about this stuff.

Put it that way.

You're going to be like, go back to that stuff.

So

this is from the newspaper, The Times, in November 24th, 1990.

For Oak Ridge residents, Chris and Kevin Planker, boxing, it would seem, is in the blood.

Starting with their great-grandfather, John Planker, the two youngsters are following the footsteps of three generations of Plankers who were dedicated and talented boxers.

Dad Wayne says it's definitely something they picked up from other members of the family.

He said, my grandfather, John, was a boxer and a coach.

My dad, Warren, was a boxer in the Navy.

My uncle Bob Lacks taught me how to box.

And now he's going to keep the tradition going on with his kids here.

He says that Chris and Kevin performed very well in a recent National Police Athletic League tournament held in New Jersey.

Chris got the gold medal in the super heavyweight class of the senior decision, our senior division, with a unanimous decision.

There it is.

That's why I fucked that up.

And Kevin...

who was a year younger at the time, 14, took second in the 165-pound bracket of the senior division.

Wayne said this was not just a PAL tournament.

He said this tournament had amateur boxers from all across the country.

So it was a real who's who of boxing.

Chris is a sophomore at the Lakeland Andover School in Lafayette.

He got a victory over Marcus Chandler.

And Kevin, who's a freshman,

was lost to a guy named Jerry Harvey from Georgia.

So they talk about Wayne honed his skills as a boxer while he was working as a sparring partner for Saul Mamby eight years ago.

Mamby was at the time was attempting a comeback.

He was a big fighter back then.

Planker is hoping Chris can gain experience in a similar manner.

He said, one day every other week, Chris goes down and boxes with Shannon Briggs.

Wow.

If you know anything about boxing.

Holy shit.

Shannon Briggs, I believe, won a heavyweight championship.

He was the heavyweight championship belt at one point.

So he's a no-shit heavyweight champion of the world.

The real deal.

Yeah.

And Briggs, who was the best amateur heavyweight in the country at the time, and he said he spars, he watches things.

He does does during workouts.

So he's just like watching Shannon.

He's like a compressed, what was that British guy?

That's what he looks like.

Lennox Lewis.

Yeah, a little

munchier down.

No, no, no, no.

Just wide as fuck.

He was so big.

He was nasty.

He was tough.

So Wayne says Shannon gives Chris a lesson every time, but it's an invaluable experience for him.

Briggs can show him what it takes to be on top to be the best amateur heavyweight going.

Imagine throwing punches with that guy.

That's what I mean.

Wow.

Future heavyweight champion.

And

these these kids aren't just dicking around boxing.

This is, they're seriously like on the path to Olympic level boxing, like that sort of shit.

Punched by Shannon McCann.

Shit.

So they said next on the Plankers schedule is the Silver Glove competition later in the month.

The Silver Gloves is a three-level competition starting with the states, and the winner goes on to regionals, the nationals.

But their long-range plans here, Wayne said their main goal is to represent the United States in the 1992 Olympics.

No shit.

That may be too far to reach, but it's something to shoot for.

They'll still be young, so 1996 is more realistic.

Then they'd be more like 19 and 20, but by then they might be looking to turn pro, so it's kind of tough.

They said at the age of 10, that's when Kevin won his stuff there.

And yeah, Chris

was a heavyweight and was since the age of 13 was undefeated through a number of national tournaments.

Jesus Christ.

Wayne said the biggest tournament is the junior Olympics.

The whole Olympic committee is there.

Everyone is watching to see how the 14 and 15 year are doing because they'll be the next group of Olympians.

In fact, Mike Tyson won the junior Olympics two times and Evander Holyfield lost there.

Wow.

So it happens.

Yeah.

Even if you lose there, it doesn't mean you're guarding.

It doesn't mean anything.

So then they said that then comes the national junior tournament for 17 and 18 year olds.

The winner of that tournament competes in the world junior tournament and travels the world with the American team.

And then the next step is the Olympics.

So, I mean, we're talking about

world-recognized badass.

Some serious shit going on.

And, by the way, they were all honor students as well.

Smart kids, too.

Yeah, this is interesting.

Kevin at the time said my older brother had people start fights with him once or twice, and then that would be it.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, he's going to be an Olympic champion.

Said Kevin of his brother, Chris, who had recently bench pressed 305 pounds as a freshman to tie the school record.

And he knows how to box.

Wow.

He said, after that, nobody else would start a fight with him.

I had a couple of fights, but I usually scrambled my way out of them.

This is what Kevin said.

I don't like to fight on the streets.

It's not the same thing.

Yeah, it hurts a little more.

It's just different.

Yeah.

Somebody could, there's no bell.

Right.

You just get, they could just punch you in the eye when you're not expecting it and kick you in the face.

And they're not trying to just box.

They're trying to tackle you.

No, they're trying to punch your ears and

kick you.

Who cares?

Yeah.

Fucking use your fists, pussy.

Poke your eyes.

They'll do anything.

So he said, I'm very confident, this is Wayne, that each of them will be the best in their respective weight classes in New Jersey and that at least two will win the gold gloves or will win gold in the national juniors.

So they're saying that in this article, they say the success and potential of them is due to primarily from the wealth of knowledge that Wayne has passed on down to them.

He said, though, before he taught them to

deliver a single punch, he said he delivered them,

he delivered them personally because he says, my ex-wife didn't want to go to the hospital.

Wait, hold on.

What?

Okay.

So he's punching them?

Before he taught them to deliver a single punch, he delivered them personally.

Yeah.

I guess he says, because my ex-wife didn't want to go to the hospital.

I don't know what that means.

He hit the kids instead of the wife?

Maybe.

I don't know.

I had to take it out of the game.

But

I was trying to find a way that it didn't mean that.

But I think that, because why would you put that in the newspaper?

She didn't like paying her own.

Weird.

So Wayne was a high school wrestling champion also in 69 and spent a number of years sparring with fighters at Gleason's gym in New York City.

On top of that, he's also very knowledgeable in karate and judo.

Is that right?

Wayne's a badass, is what it is.

They said his teachings have been a combination of all four disciplines.

Yeah, I'll fight any way you want.

Anyway, Wayne said they're not your typical boxers.

They're not fast, they're not agile, and they can't dance.

What they've got going for them is scientifically smart moves.

He said, Two other things is tremendous tremendous love for the sport.

Wayne said, since we're all about the same size, we all spar with each other.

Yeah.

He's sparring with teenagers.

He said that

Wayne said, Wayne, who later teamed with his son Chris to give this writer a short lesson on defense in a Burger King parking lot.

Oh, my God.

He said, We all just get in a van or we get on a jet plane and head for the tournaments.

I save up my money and we all go together.

Okay, now, what the fluff piece does not tell you,

that was from late 90 and early 91,

is that

from

Wayne was charged with a crime in 1988, a terrible crime against children.

What did he do?

But they don't mention any of that.

Not a word.

Oh, we'll talk about it.

He's beating up kids

over chicken fries.

Not only that, well, that was a writer he was beating up, but he apparently was beating the shit out of his sons the whole time.

Really?

Which is kind of weird for a boxing coach because if you want to beat your kid, you just go put the gloves on.

I'm going to teach you.

I'm going to show you something real quick and then knock on her, like, that's it.

You got to ring about this.

That's crazy.

And also,

him and the mom and dad weren't together.

Dad was separate, and dad was in the early 80s, had a girlfriend that had two young daughters.

Oh, no.

Dad is also charged in 1988 with sexually assaulting the daughters of his living-girlfriend.

Oh, Jesus.

Over an 11-year period.

Over and over and over.

At his trial,

the stepsisters.

He didn't please.

No, fuck no.

He went, he denies it.

He said it didn't happen.

Okay.

These sisters said that he regularly forced them to perform sexual acts.

Don't you want us to go back to boxing now?

Everyone's like, when's the boxing over?

Let's talk more about chicken fries.

Jesus Christ.

Regularly forced them to perform sexual acts.

He punched and molested them and regularly beat his sons as well and possibly molested them too.

How is he out in 91?

Well, he was still awaiting trial on these charges.

But in the paper, he's going to tournaments full of children.

Not mentioning it.

He's got a gym, children.

There's children all around him.

I guess innocent until proven guilty, but not that.

Not around kids.

Let's not do that.

Yeah, sorry, but you don't get to hang around kids while that.

Well, at least put it in the paper: hey, maybe don't send your kid to this guy.

That's crazy.

Wayne would play games with the girls.

That's a gross game.

Picking by lottery which of the two sisters or their mother,

his girlfriend, wife, whatever, would go to bed with him?

Drawn straws.

To cover his crimes, the girls said later on that he would play social worker, quote unquote.

That's we're playing social worker now, he would say, quizzing them about their lives.

If they gave the wrong answer or in any way hinted at abuse, he would punch them.

Oh, my God.

Not only that, he had both girls had both arms broken at various points

by him, and one had her nose broken as well.

Good lord.

In January 1991 is when this is all going down.

So those articles were coming out 30 days before he goes to trial.

How in the fuck did they get away from this?

So Wayne's fucking trial here, man.

I like how this newspaper article starts out.

Wayne Planker is either a violent brute who sexually abused his girlfriend's daughters or a caring father figure whose love of boxing made him an easy target for a big lie.

Whoa.

Maybe he just cares too much.

There's a giant space in between those.

That's a prosecution and a defense chasm.

Yeah, because it's a trial.

Wow.

They said those were the startlingly different visions of Planker offered yesterday by a prosecutor and a defense attorney during the arguments on his sexual assault charges.

The prosecutor reminded the jury about the testimony of the two sisters, who at the time were 20 and 21, who described the abuse.

He's charged with four counts each of aggravated sexual assault and sexual assault against the girls during 1983 when they were between the ages of 12 and 13.

Yeah, it gets worse.

Okay, he said from the time, this is the prosecutor, from the time they were young children until their mid-teens, the victims were forced to endure a life of repeated sexual and physical abuse and told the jury they can expect to hear graphic and disgusting testimony about the conduct of Wayne Planker.

They said

that Wayne, quote, didn't anticipate that the day would come when these girls would develop the strength and courage to come forth and report report what this man did to them.

There it is.

And he outlines the charges and everything and said they took place where the charges are.

They said they think it happened for a longer period, but the charges are for incidents between December 81 and June 84.

And they only stopped in June 84 because they left.

The girls moved away, and then they didn't tell anybody until 1988.

Good God.

At least they told.

That's good.

So they said, this is the prosecutor, he kept his secret safe by conditioning them to know that if reported, they would befall danger.

He said that they would be rewarded with cookies and money.

And rape.

No, no, that's if

they didn't complain or whatever.

He'd give them cookies and money as a reward

for if they

performed satisfactorily and indicated they wouldn't tell anyone.

The prosecutor said if they didn't, he'd strike them, saying that he would constantly issue threats and tell stories about how he'd injured animals and other people into a little girl.

And he hurts them, so they believe it.

They said believing when they were pre-school, starting when they were preschool age, up to the time when they were 13 and 14, they were subjected to various sexual acts, including participating in sex games with Wayne, sleeping with him, taking showers with him.

They said maintaining the conduct was observed by neighbors and acquaintances who, quote, for some reason did not see fit to report him.

He was not hiding this.

When do you hear this?

Oh my God.

They said those persons will be called as witnesses.

They should be sitting next to him.

Yeah.

What are we talking about?

How do you know that and not do anything about it?

Wow.

They said these girls were resigned to a life that would never bring change.

He said that Planker's girlfriend, their mother, was a hopeless alcoholic and a weak-willed woman, totally subordinate to Wayne Planker.

Wow.

They said the situation changed in 1984 when the victims moved away from New Jersey and broke away from their mother.

That's when they came forward in 88 with the charges.

Where the hell did they go?

They're crazy.

Probably, who knows?

Grandparents, uncle, aunt, uncle, anybody.

A fucking pack of wolves would be better than this.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, anything would be better than this.

They said at that point, the indictment was filed against

Planker the following year.

And they said the victims named him as a defendant in a civil suit in December that seeks punitive damages for physical and emotional abuse.

And he's going to try to use that to his advantage and say they just want money.

They said

Planker liked to have several abusive games he would play.

One he called nap time,

in which he would choose between the girls and their mother to lie with him in bed.

If the girl's mother wasn't chosen, she would go into the backyard and drink alcohol while he would molest their daughters.

God, geez.

That's what she would do.

He would frequently punch the girls in the stomach and chide them because they didn't block the punch.

We're not boxers.

We're small girls.

What are you talking about?

He also kicked them in the stomach with steel-toed boots that he almost always wore.

One of the girls testified.

Yep.

Kicks and punches were delivered almost daily, sometimes for no reason at all.

Unbelievable.

Just to keep them on their toes.

They both girls detailed the sexual abuse they endured around his friends, around other people.

Yeah.

Other men.

By the way,

who should have fucking beat the living fuck out.

Hit him in the head with a frying pan.

You don't want to start a fight with the guy.

But hit him with a frying, do something, call the cops.

Anything.

Anything.

He would forcibly lift up the shirts and comment on their breasts

in front of his friends.

This is a sick fuck.

My God.

Sick fuck this guy is.

What year is that?

Why is that?

Early 80s.

What is going on?

By 1983, we knew that was bad.

Yeah, I think.

You can't do that.

Matter of fact, I think by 1893, we knew that was bad.

And by 1783, we knew that was bad, probably.

I mean, when they were these are chills, these are babies.

Yeah, yeah, these are

11-year-olds.

He's doing this stuff.

So gross.

He also bragged to his friends while the girls were present how he planned to have sex with them when they turned 14.

What?

And that once they turned 14, he would also let his friends have sex with them, too.

Oh, goddamn.

He'd say this in front of the girls and in front of his friends.

And they wouldn't go,

it's getting late.

Never again.

I'm going to get out of here to where the cops are, and I'll talk to you later.

She said one of the girls said Planker sexually abused her, then forced a kiss on her lips.

And she said it was repulsive because he had terrible breath, too.

Oh, God damn it.

So the prosecutor said these women have not been healed by time.

And they said they're urging the maximum sentence.

He says they still suffer from these crimes.

He said the, you know, goes over everything.

He reminded the judge that one girl had her arm broke, the other had her nose broke, and one

said that he forced her hand onto a hot stove and burned her.

Wow.

This is like some Sybil behavior.

Like, this is horrifying.

This is how you get multiple personality people.

Ritualistic sexual and physical abuse is how you end up with.

Mental anguish that's clearly just built to keep them submissive.

Oh, it's fucking horrifying.

He's a monster.

The prosecutor recalled testimony of how he had placed his hand.

This is from one of his friends, testified, down one of the girl's pants and announced announced to his friends that she had her first period.

Oh, for Christian.

Can you imagine how horrifying that is for a little girl?

That's this is horrify.

Don't worry.

This is all over.

Unbelievable.

And it's got a happy ending.

So

also, the prosecutor described how Planker had conditioned the girls to answer the questions,

you know, and all that kind of thing.

Also, so he could continue a welfare fraud he was doing, because that's why social workers were coming, because he had a welfare fraud going on.

He had a scheme.

Oh, boy.

The prosecutor said for 11 years, these girls were tortured physically and psychologically.

But Planker's defense attorney, Peter Gilbreth,

said that their testimony, the girls' testimony, or women at the time, 20 and 21, didn't make sense.

It's confusing.

It just doesn't make sense.

Given testimony by Wayne's friends and family, who said they never saw the girls

bruised or abused,

the defense attorney said these girls told a lie once and they told the lie and now they're stuck with it.

They can't stop telling it.

The defense attorney says that the the girls testified in the criminal case just to bolster a civil suit they filed against Blanker seeking monetary fucking retro compensation.

They're looking for money, you guys.

That's all.

He noted the girls had failed to report the abuses till years after they left New Jersey with their mother in 1984.

Can't imagine if that doesn't happen.

Well, I wonder why, because they're terrified of him.

Terrified to murder them.

It took till they were

in therapy, probably, in counseling when they got away from their mother.

When they have sex with him, he still punches them.

What will he do when they don't tell him?

That means what I mean?

Or

when they tell.

Right.

The defense attorney said, I'm not suggesting stuff like this doesn't happen.

It does, but you've got to have proof.

Oh, boy.

They have witnesses saying all this stuff about I'm going to let you have sex with them.

I'm going to all this shit.

The defense attorney noted his client has denied the charges and urged the jury not to let emotions play a deciding role in the case.

It's for emotional judgment.

I know it's emotional that you want to murder this guy with your bare hands, but don't let that get cloud your judgment.

He said the most important word used by the prosecutor was disgusting.

And there was no question these charges are disgusting.

Don't forget that it's easy to make allegations.

Not for a child to make allegations against it.

It's really not.

Disgusting is the word.

Child rape is way worse than disgusting.

That's what I mean.

I don't know how this guy's saying he's using too strong a language.

It's like, I think he was going easy on it.

Don't forget that it's easy to make allegations.

The question must be if they are believable and proven beyond a reasonable doubt, told the jury that all Wayne is asking for is a fair shake.

He said, I'll have to ask difficult questions.

It will not be a pleasant task, but I must do it.

And then he said to the jury during his openings, hold on.

It's going to be one heck of a ride.

Oh, boy.

What a disgusting way to put that.

He is found fucking guilty of everything, Wayne is.

And this is, think about this.

Think about when you're a teenager and you're known for your association with your father.

You're in the newspaper about you and your dad, and you're all connected, and everybody knows your dad.

He's never boxing again.

And now your dad is the biggest piece of shit in the town.

Yeah.

Child molesting, scumbag.

Everybody looks at the boys like they're pieces of shit, too.

Were they married?

Is this his stepdaughters?

Are these just girlfriends' children?

We're not sure.

They lived together for years, so gross.

Common law.

It's the most disgusting fucking thing ever.

The ball's on someone, A, to molest anybody.

Yeah.

But to be like, I'm going to molest somebody else's kid is like that's that's awfully presumptuous and and to to groom the entire family to

molest two girls in your own house is so violent which also says that's not the first time he's done that because he knew exactly what woman to find how to do it would allow that to happen he knew exactly what he was doing someone who was damaged enough to allow that a long time so the judge says you sir

may fuck off 40 years in prison dang banged him good yeah for sexually abusing these two kids right The sentence was just short of the maximum, which was, I think, 42 years or some shit like that.

Yeah.

And so the Superior Court judge called him a dangerous and violent person who deserved the long sentence.

Under current sentencing laws, he could have imposed 40 years with a maximum 20-year period of parole ineligibility.

Under the current sentence, though, he will be eligible for parole in about 10 years.

Luckily, though, as we'll find out,

when you go out for parole hearings,

none of this shit sounds good.

Those two girls go to every parole hearing telling those people what they did to you.

It's bad.

And we'll find out Wayne is not going to do well in the parole game at all.

No.

He plays nap time better?

Oh, yeah.

Prison is one long nap time, my friend.

A lot more people to choose from to go night night.

Boy, who wants to go night night with Wayne tonight?

Fucking scumbag.

So the judge said he was moved by the testimony of the victims, particularly the description one woman gave of one of many sexual attacks.

Because they gave detail.

I spared you people

if you can believe it.

Planker says he

plans to appeal the sentence, but the judge refused to allow him to remain free on bail.

He was free on half million dollars bail for years doing fluff pieces in the newspaper.

And the judge says, oh, no, no, no, no, sir.

You're going right now.

Take a hike.

So they get him.

During a half-hour statement to the judge, Planker proclaimed his innocence and accused the county prosecutor of coercing witnesses to testify against him, which is why he got such a strong sense.

Whoa.

Because they were like, oh, you're an asshole.

Yeah.

Goodbye.

So not surprisingly, in about 1993, Kevin starts to have some problems.

Right.

As you would expect at this point, I would think.

He starts running into trouble with the law.

And I mean, it's just kind of expected.

This is

the worst person ever.

Everybody, I'm sure, doesn't look at you the same.

The whole boxing community is aware.

Oh, everybody knows about it.

And they're all checking their kids to go, Jesus, was he around my kids?

Briggs isn't even sparring with you.

No, no, Briggs is scared.

You got Shannon Briggs shivering in the corner.

He's like, I don't want to come in there.

He's like, I don't mind getting knocked out, but I'm not getting raped.

That's something different.

So he begins some trouble with the law.

He's arrested for the first time by Paramus Police on November 17th, 1993, charged with assault, criminal mischief, and disorderly conduct.

It's a pretty bad night.

Which sounds like some teenage shit of an angry teenager.

He was fined $650 after pleading guilty.

Oh.

He's a kid doing his, you know, whatever.

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Then he has more problems.

Uh-oh.

May of 94, he's charged with possession of marijuana and hash, which is just weed.

Same thing.

Same thing, but separate charges, and drug paraphernalia.

All of these charges obviously wouldn't even exist now.

He could walk into a store and buy stronger shit than that.

So that doesn't matter.

I mean, I was smoking weed around this area at this time.

It was all fine.

In November 1994, he's arrested for robbery.

That's different.

That's not boys will be boys.

You got some hash in your fucking ball type of shit here.

He pleaded guilty to the robbery and is sentenced to, you young man, may certainly fuck off five years in prison.

Ooh, that's a big robbery.

Stiff.

Yeah.

I hate to say it, but there's no way that he earned that one.

Either he did it horribly or his dad's shit had to have some sort of way bearing on it of like, you know, I'm giving this kid an extra harsh sentence because of his dad.

I don't know what it is, but he got a pretty harsh sentence there.

He's going to end up serving only 11 months of that, though.

Oh, lucky.

Which isn't too bad.

100%.

Jesus.

Not bad at all.

Let's talk about

prison in 1994.

There's a guy named Tony DeSimone who said he was Kevin's cellmate for about six months.

And

talking to DeSimone later on, the newspaper says from his home at a trailer park last night,

De Simone really is

rebounding well, crushing it out there.

Don't go to prison, you guys.

Don't go to prison.

Wait till you hear later.

At the end of this episode, you are going to hear all about the conditions in New Jersey State Prison.

Oh, boy.

But a complaint from an it's wild.

It's more funny than anything the way the guy puts it, but you'll see.

So from his home at a trailer park last night, he said the younger Planker was a boxing fanatic who kept to himself.

DeSimone said Kevin Planker never spoke about

really about like his outside, his girlfriend, Sandra, or this or that or anything he was missing, only that he hated his father.

That's all he would say.

Really?

Just sat in there stewing my dad's piece of shit.

So that was the only personal shit he would talk about was how much he hated his father, which is kind of obvious.

Yeah, he ruined his fucking life.

Destroyed his life.

So this or a cellmate said that Kevin spent a lot of time doing push-ups, listening to classic rock and boxing.

Hell yeah.

I mean, that's not a bad life, I guess.

That's not bad.

So now, why did Sandra like

him?

Or what did she see?

Yeah, what was the attraction?

Confidence, all that stuff.

But no,

one, Chad, actually, the neighbor said he was her high school boyfriend.

She told me she always felt bad about the life he had because of his father.

Chad was friend zoned.

Oh, Chad's major friend zone.

So friend zoned.

Or he's like the gay neighbor, one of the two.

Either way, he's not going to get her, and he's furious.

No, no, because she's telling him all about this shit.

Oh, I felt bad for his life.

That's not a, I'm going to fuck you later.

That's not how that works.

Tell me all about him.

I know he's a bad guy.

Tell me.

Tell me.

Yeah, that's not bad.

So she liked him because she felt bad for him.

He was a wounded puppy.

She can help.

She wanted to help.

He's a good person.

He's a nice person.

So, 1996-97, adult Kevin now.

Yeah.

Out of prison.

6'3 ⁇ , 240 pounds.

With rage about his father.

With rage and a pretty damn skilled ability to fight.

Right.

On the street, he's dangerous.

Yeah.

Like, you know, in a boxing ring, he's not really that bad anymore.

Someone half his size will whoop his ass if they're skilled enough.

But on the street, this guy is a fucking loaded pistol.

So he's also unemployed.

He apparently was a former construction worker and cheese salesman.

Oh, yeah.

Just selling cheese.

That'd be the easiest job in the world.

If you came up to me with good cheese and were like, you want to buy some cheese?

I'd go, all right.

Yeah.

What you got?

What do you got?

I'll buy that.

I'll buy all the cheese you got, my friend.

I love cheese.

I want to repave your driveway while you eat this cheese.

What do you got?

Get some Parmigiano-Reggiano.

Hand it over.

Let's go.

So,

yeah, he's 6'4 ⁇ , 240, an unemployed former cheese salesman on parole.

Not a great stat line for starting your life.

It really isn't.

So friends and coworkers say that, because he got out and that's what he was dealing with, Teresa and getting with her and everything like that again after he got out of prison.

Now, friends and coworkers of not Teresa, Sandra Terranova.

Sorry.

Friends and coworkers said that Terranova was afraid of Kevin, but for some reason couldn't leave him.

She felt bad for him.

At one point, friends said that Sandra's parents moved her to Italy in hopes that she would forget about him, and it didn't work because she came back because she wanted to be with him.

Right.

I mean, she left Italy to be with him.

Wow.

So

Sandra frequently complained to coworkers that Kevin was calling her house at all hours.

Oh, boy.

That she was afraid of him.

She broke down in tears several times at work, coworkers said.

This is not good.

No.

This is all bad.

One of the coworkers here, the one that called the cops, Gennady, said, we tried to tell her to stay away from that guy and that he wasn't right for her.

But, you know, when you're with someone for a long time, it's hard to break away.

Love makes you do stupid things.

Yeah.

Yes, it does.

Oh, I can co-sign that.

Wow.

That is the most true statement of all time.

Love makes you do stupid things.

That should be

tell every child that all the time.

Love will cost you thousands and thousands.

So much.

M thousands.

And then never mind your emotional bank account.

That is going to be depleted.

So

the woman went on to say, he's not the kind of guy she should have been dating.

She was a great girl and a great-looking girl from a good family.

He was something else entirely.

If they could afford to even send her to Italy, they got to be doing half decent.

At least, you know, they have their shit together.

They probably have health insurance and things like that.

A plane ticket is not cheap.

No, it's not.

So when the coworkers said that, you know, Sandra, they tell the police, because the police are looking for it and they've been called looking for Sandra, they tell the police that Sandra was afraid of her boyfriend and that they suspected foul play.

So you should look into it.

So they, because they said, could she have just gone somewhere?

She is 21.

Yeah.

She just go to see a friend somewhere for a few days.

Ireland.

Who the fuck knows?

A 21-year-old.

You go anywhere.

And they said, no, no, no, this is weird.

She didn't get her paycheck, which she always got because she needed the money because she had a car payment and rent and all this shit to do.

And so the police hand this over, the local Garfield police hand this over to the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office.

Out of our hands.

A little too big for us.

So anyway, they talk about that Sandra had recently broken off the relationship with Kevin

and was briefly dating a neighbor.

Oh, not Chad.

Yeah, Chad.

Don't think it was Chad, Chad, though, as we'll talk about here, and had sought refuge from Kevin at the neighbor's apartment.

Oh.

So maybe it is Chad, or maybe Chad has a roommate, or I don't know what's going on here.

Kevin is just drifting.

He has no trouble with the ladies.

We'll say that much.

He has tons of women willing to go way out of their way and do things they shouldn't do for him.

So he occasionally stayed with Sandra in her apartment.

He stayed with friends in West Milford.

He also had family members who lived near the watershed property later on that we'll talk about.

That's kind of out in the middle of nowhere.

So kind of rural, a more rural area.

At one point, he lived at the home of a ministry worker and her family.

This woman here, who we'll talk about later, her name and everything like that,

she was a prison ministry worker.

Oh.

Prison ministry.

Yes.

Yeah.

And he hooked up with her.

While in prison.

And then when he got out, still fucking her.

Went to live with her family and her,

which is crazy.

She said she met Kevin before he was sent to prison on the burglary conviction.

She offered him a place to stay upon his release, but grew to distrust him.

She said, we didn't want him in the house anymore.

There's too many valuable things here.

He's that bad.

He's that, you know, can't be trusted around your silverware type of bad.

So he still visited her and her family from time to time,

as we'll talk about here.

More recently, he lived with another woman and her infant son.

Oh.

It's not just her infant son, it's his infant son.

He's got a kid with this lady, too.

Oh, boy.

So he's banging the minister, the ministry lady.

He's got Sandra on the hook, and he's also got a

bacon babies, has a baby with this woman who we'll talk about in a minute here.

It's a lot.

He was living with them

on Route 46 West in Lodi, where a neighbor said the two appeared to be moving out that week.

The neighbor who lived next door said, I don't know what was going on, but they were getting ready to move.

I saw her putting her things in a car.

Okay, now that we'll find out what that was after a while here.

So August 15th is when she was reported missing, Sandra Terranova.

Okay.

Now, the investigation of where she is, because at first the cops, like I said, it's a 21-year-old.

Who knows?

So they're like, eh,

she can do things.

Yeah, she might be in Atlantic City.

We have no idea what she's...

She might have gone down there and got a jackpot and she's she's stuck in front of a slot machine she met a guy with a boat who knows who knows yeah she met a guy with the stugats he's gonna go out

so uh the detective uh john prehart uh spoke with sandra's mother and went to sandy's apart sandra's apartment yeah he noticed right away that sandra's mailbox was full oh so the it's been a little bit a few days of of mail and it's one of those little boxes yeah that you know three days of mail it's packed yeah if you've got one magazine subscription, it's over.

Best of luck.

She's like, I shouldn't have subscribed to Entertainment Weekly.

Look at this shit.

It's a mess.

I feel bad for my mail guy.

I do that.

I got a mailbox out front with like the door.

Oh, you have one of those neighborhood mailboxes.

No, no, no.

It's just in my bay in front of your house.

Oh, that's right.

You have one in front of your house.

Yeah, yeah.

But it's a big black box that's like concreted in, and you can open the little door and put things in there.

I just let him fill that motherfucker for so long that the door doesn't even open.

I always do that.

Sarah loves to get the mail.

If Sarah didn't get the mail, it would never get because I have-I don't care.

I don't give a shit.

Well, everything's like online.

Most of it's automatic anyway.

It's all trash.

I don't care what you got, but you should empty the mailbox once in a while.

Yeah, I should probably get all that stuff out more, but probably a couple times a week, but I do not.

And sometimes you get weed in there, and that's when you really got to get it out.

That would be fun.

That's fun.

Nobody draws that in my mailbox.

Really?

Oh, wow.

I have a good mailbox.

Better one than mine.

So

mailbox is full.

And so he ends up climbing the fire escape to her apartment, opening the the screen and entering the apartment to detect her.

He went in?

Oh, he broke in.

He went up the fire escape to break in.

Because he's concerned.

He wants to see if she's there.

It's a welfare check, basically.

No one's there.

Oh.

The door is locked.

So he exited through the same window and fire escape, crawled down the fire escape.

So there's like, who knows here?

So then the next day is Saturday, August the 16th, 1997.

So

this day, detective here, the pre-hart guy, he goes to several parameters residences, including

the woman who,

the ministry worker lady's house, who he was staying at for a while.

That's the residence listed on Kevin's driver's license as his primary.

Oh.

That's where he was living at the time he got it.

They also talked to a kid named Nicholas Ranieri, who is a 16-year-old kid who's a friend of Kevin's.

Why is a 21-year-old?

Well, I guess he was in prison for a while, so he might be

a little delayed.

And he probably needs more immature people, probably.

And influenceable.

Influenceable that, too, yeah.

So he wasn't, Kevin was not at either location.

And they just want to talk to Kevin at this point.

Yeah, she doesn't question her, too.

She is seeing other people, so they're all on the list here.

The pre-heart guy learned of a phone number for the apartment that he shared with Dana Knott.

Dana is D-Y-N-A, oh, Kot, I'm sorry, K-O-T-T.

Okay.

Dana Kot.

That is the mother of his child, who he was also living with, kind of.

That was in the car moving out.

That was in the moving out.

So he left a message for Kevin on her machine there.

Okay.

Or whatever the fuck.

So back to Sandra's here.

Pre-Hart goes back to Sandra's apartment that he was at the day before, breaking in the window, and he noticed the window that he secured the day before was open now.

Oh.

And he knows he was with the mother, so he knows the mother didn't come over.

Yeah.

So he entered the apartment through the window again, sure, with his gun out.

And he noticed now things are different in the apartment than they were yesterday.

Someone's been there.

Somebody's been here.

The mail that was on the table is strewn about the apartment.

The bedroom door, which was open the previous day, is now closed.

And the apartment front door is now unlocked.

Someone broke in through the window and left through the door and rifled the place, basically.

So he's like, okay, someone's looking.

Something's wrong.

Something's wrong here.

She didn't just go somewhere.

Now there's foul play because now somebody's coming in trying to fuck with our investigation.

So Sunday, the 17th of August comes around, 1.45 p.m.

that day, Prehart receives a call from Kevin.

He has been going everywhere Kevin's ever been, talking to everybody Kevin's ever known, giving his card out, saying, have Kevin call me.

So Kevin knows he's got a call to make here.

So he calls and Kevin tells Prehart that Sandra went to Wildwood.

Oh.

to hang out and he should look for her there.

I don't know why you're bothering me, basically.

Yeah, in Wildwood, New Jersey.

So, yeah,

you should just go to Wildwood and leave me alone.

Yes.

Is basically what he said.

He also said that Sandra has a,

she does this all the time.

He said she has a long history of just running away without telling anybody.

She disappears from time to time.

Take off for a few days.

I'll tell you about Italy.

Yeah, she'll be back.

Yeah, I didn't know where she was.

She was slurping pasta.

She came back smelling like garlic and olive oil.

It's crazy.

It's crazy.

So she's liking the squid pasta.

It was weird.

So he

said that, yeah, she runs away.

And they said, well, tell us a a little background on your relationship with her.

And he said, quote, I guess we kind of still see each other.

Like, not really like.

That's what he said.

Like, not really like.

Yeah.

Now,

again, when you're 21 and you break up and then you're seeing someone sort of, and then he's seeing someone sort of, this is normal stuff.

Or is he saying, I guess we kind of like see each other?

Not really like, I guess we see each other.

Well,

then he breaks into this and he breaks it off.

He says, I guess we still kind of see each other like not really like, I haven't slept with her in a long time because

she's been sleeping around.

He said, we hang out and it's all right, but it's not like a relationship or anything like that.

So basically, he's saying it's become more of like

friends type of thing with like something else with a weird umbrella over it, but not sexual at this point.

You know, because she's sleeping around.

So, you know, his standards are way, way above that.

He's shown it to everybody.

It's not fair.

He told Prehart also that the last time he saw Sandra was the previous Wednesday or Thursday night, which is Thursday is when she didn't show up for work for the first day, when he helped her move out of her apartment, which she still moved out of.

She didn't move out.

Her shit's all, it doesn't make sense.

But

well, there is furniture missing from her apartment, which is the detective didn't know at first because didn't know what kind of furniture she had.

But then later on finds out that there is furniture missing.

So they're like, did he help her move out?

Was she moving out?

So then they're very confused now because they never thought about that.

So they're like, was she moving in with somebody?

The whole thing just opens up a big door.

Where did you move to?

Yeah.

Where did you put that shit?

More importantly, is there a guy we should be talking to who's on the other end of this move and shit like that?

Other witnesses they talk to, just people to see if maybe they know anything.

They basically, all of them talk about the mistreatment and threats by Kevin against Sandra.

Okay.

That's all of her friends.

Barbie from work said that on Wednesday, August 13th, the day before she was gone,

that, wow, Kevin had showed up at the store,

Rampage, and engaged in an argument at the store, at work, at a retail,

in a women's clothing store.

The craziest place to have an argument with your girlfriend or ex-girlfriend or anybody is in a women's clothing store.

It's just weird.

During which Kevin chased her around, calling her a whore over and over.

Chased her in the store.

She was trying to walk away because, you know, she's at work and he was chasing her, going, because you're a whore, because you're a fucking whore.

Like, just calling her a whore at work and stating that he was, quote, going to kill her, you whore.

Okay.

Yeah.

They were like, that's interesting.

Fascinating.

Not exactly how Kevin described it.

A little different than he described it here.

So Barbie and the other person from work who called the cops stated that Kevin would call the store repeatedly,

scream

at her, scream at Sandra, and call her derogatory names like whore.

John Nardino, now,

he's a guy we're going to find out.

He's a very interesting part of this.

He is the male voice on a phone call that we'll find out about later on.

Okay.

There was a phone call that he was on the phone with her.

He called, Nardino called Sandra that night, and apparently

she went over to the phone to talk to him, and then there was a call back to his house

with a guy calling him.

And the guy was Kevin, he's saying.

And this guy said that while this guy called him,

this Nardino said he could hear Sandra screaming in the background, saying, hang up the phone.

Why don't you just stop?

You always do this.

Please just leave.

Okay.

So he's saying that he thinks Kevin was at her house and calling, using her like star 69.

Yeah, calling back the last number she called.

Exactly.

So according to John Nardino, she sounded like she was crying in the background while screaming this stuff.

So

also they talked to several acquaintances of Kevin who all said they observed Kevin driving Sandra's 96 black Mitsubishi car between August 15th and 17th,

which is Friday through Sunday.

Yeah.

Which is when this is all going on.

And he's saying, I don't know where she went, but he has her car.

Well, he had her car, man.

But that's what people say.

So who knows?

So Kevin calls the detective again.

Okay.

Prehart had contacted the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office for assistance, and they send out Detective Gregory Donatello.

Hell yeah.

And they got, yeah, you know, Raphael's there.

He'll be there.

Yeah, it's all the turtles are coming in.

There is pizza.

There will be pizza there.

Well, it is Jersey.

So he's from the homicide squad.

Yeah.

Even though we don't even know what's going on, we're going to bring in a homicide guy now just in case something happened.

Oh, yeah.

So he meets with Prehart at 2:30 p.m.

that day.

At 4:30 p.m.

that day, that is when Kevin calls Prehart again.

Yeah.

This time, he's got a little bit different story.

He says, Okay, we were pretty close, me and Sandra.

We were closer than I let on last year.

Yeah.

Just trying to distance myself, didn't want to be involved.

You know what I mean?

He, when asked whether Sandra's apartment was normally messy, because now it is,

he said, no, no, quote, if it's messy, there's something wrong, I guess.

That's what Kevin said.

It shouldn't be messy ever.

She never kept it messy.

Then about 5.15 p.m.,

a Mrs.

Ranieri, who is his little 16-year-old buddy's mother,

called the detective and told her that...

told the detective that she that her husband had seen Kevin pulling up to the ministry lady's house a few doors away.

In case you're still looking for him, he's down there.

Okay.

So Prehart and Donatello went to that address and asked Kevin to come down to the Garfield police headquarters and talk about this for a minute.

So after some discussion, in other words, Kevin, Hemin, and Haw, and I got shit to do with her.

Let's just talk about it.

Oh, I can just come down.

We'll bring pizza.

Come on.

That's all right.

Yeah, we got this.

It's all taken care of now.

So they said that they'd he said fine.

So he accompanies the officers to the Paramus police headquarters for some reason, where they sit him down and have a little interview with him because they need to either include or exclude him because at this point, he's the only guy that they're looking at.

So Kevin sits down and said, okay, I'll tell you the story from the beginning.

Sandra and I dated for a time in high school, 93, 94,

you know, all those times.

And then it ended

during that time.

He said their dating relationship ended in 94 because he went to prison, which he doesn't mention at this point.

He just says

it ended around 94.

He went to college.

I was out West.

I was being a cowboy.

So he used to tell the little Italian kids back.

Your father's out West.

He's being a cowboy.

Yeah, he's got a lot of work to do with the horses and all that.

The kids go, oh, wow, my dad's a cowboy.

He's just at Green Hale.

Bills of Haye are really heavy.

He's just at Sing Sing.

That's the only thing.

So he said the dating relationship resumed in November or December 96,

which is, you know, less than a year ago.

He said that, yes, it is true because they said, we found out you are involved with quite a few women.

You have an infant child with one of them.

What's going on?

And he said, well, yeah, I was involved in some other relationships at the time, a young guy.

You know what I mean?

He said, including with Dana Cott, who was pregnant, and then she had my baby.

He said that

he and Sandra, though, were done, done, broken up on August 10th, 97, which is five days before the cops are called.

Day off, yeah.

But he said he helped her move furniture on August 10th, the same day.

So she said, I don't want to be with you anymore.

Grab the other end of this couch.

Get your truck.

And he said, sure.

Dude, hold on.

You got to turn it this way to get through the door.

Like, what are we talking about here?

That's a way to break up.

It's an odd thing to say, though.

The cops are like, so she broke up with you and then you helped her move.

Wild.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Sure.

He said, they said, well, when is the last time you saw her?

Let's call it that way.

Let's figure that out.

And he said, last time I saw her was about 1 a.m.

Really?

On August 16th, 1997.

Saturday.

Which is Saturday morning.

Yeah.

So cops have already been called and are already looking for her at that point.

He said, but he didn't like hang out with her.

He just said he saw her

in her car with two males with long hair.

Oh.

Which in 97, not a lot of guys had long hair in 97.

It wasn't cool.

Even rock guys all cut their hair short.

Fucking metal guys had short hair.

Everyone had short hair.

Yeah, had a fucking spike.

Yeah.

Spike too.

All of Metallica, short hair by 97.

All of it, except for Kirk.

Kirk took a little longer to

adhere.

But everybody else had short hair by then.

Fucking Lars's was like blonde by then, for Christ's sake.

But the guys in like the other stuff in corn, they had long hair.

Kind of, but it was like shaved on the sides.

It was like, you couldn't have like all long hair back then.

That was like 80s metal shit.

You had to have like some shaved shit if you had long hair, something weird.

Shaved on half.

Shaved on half around the sides and the back and a big long thing, something weird.

So two males with long hairs.

Poison is picking her up, I guess.

So later in the interview, he said, all right, yeah, I also saw her one other day, too, on August 13th.

At the clothing store,

which they know that because that's the day that all the employees

were chasing her around, calling her a whore all day.

It's her young misses.

Now, during that encounter, the reason why he was calling her a whore was because she told him during that encounter that she thought she might be pregnant.

Wow.

And it's his.

Oh, fuck.

And he said, it isn't mine.

You're what?

A whore.

A whore.

So hold on.

He has been sleeping with her still.

Fuck yeah.

Yeah.

Very recently.

And he's lying.

And he's lying.

He's been dipping his shit everywhere.

Imagine saying you wouldn't sleep with her because she's been sleeping around.

She's sleeping around.

He clearly just throws biscuits.

He's constantly

unwrapped.

Anything at any time.

He's throwing biscuits at everybody.

Loaded biscuits.

God damn.

The New Jersey Insperminator.

That's him.

Damn.

So he, yeah, he said that that caused him.

Then he said that on August 15th, the day that the police were looking for, he had an argument with her at her apartment regarding the pregnancy.

He said he left the apartment and drove around for a while, after which he called Sandra from a pay phone across the street from her apartment.

So he drove around, then drove back to the apartment to call her from a pay phone for some reason rather than just going back to the phone.

That shit to say.

Makes no sense.

So far.

During the conversation,

Call Waiting came in on her side, and she said, I'm going to get it.

It's my mother.

Okay.

Okay.

He didn't believe her, he said.

Kevin said, I knew it wasn't her mother.

I heard the the two beeps, and I know it's not your mom.

Not your mom.

It's not your mom's beeps.

So he went back up to her apartment.

Holy.

Got in, walked right over to her phone and did Star 69.

What?

That's when...

That's when it's John.

That's when John answers the phone.

And that's when Kevin became angry and told John on the phone that I'm Sandra's boyfriend, and I'm going to find the address that you're calling from, and I'm going to find you.

And I'm going to take care of this in my way.

He said,

you're going to see me, buddy.

Yeah.

So he's threatening this guy on the phone while she's in the background screaming, crying, going, why are you doing this?

Why do you always do this?

Why can't you just leave?

What the fuck's going on here?

So this is now it's all making sense and coming in.

So in the background, that's when she could be heard arguing.

After the phone call,

this is wild.

Okay.

After the phone call,

he said they engaged in sexual intercourse.

Now we have sex.

So yes, consensual sex.

He said, so they're arguing, upset, and somehow this turned into them having sex.

I don't know how that happened.

He then told Donatello the last time he actually saw her, she was in her car with the two guys with long hair, but it might have been 1 a.m.

on this day, but it could have been, I don't remember exactly when it was.

Might have been the next day.

I don't even know.

He then described to

the detectives that he says that her promiscuous behavior and suicide attempts in the past.

Oh, she's also attempting.

Yeah, he's like, like, listen, she's all whacked out, man.

That's what he's telling the cops.

Like, she fucks everybody.

She's a whore.

I don't know who this baby is.

And she's tried to kill herself before.

She runs away all the time.

He's the only person that says any of this shit about her.

These are all symptoms of mental health.

Oh, yeah.

Everybody else says, real nice, real dependable, real normal.

Comes home, reads a book.

She's mentally ill.

Nuts.

Crazy.

Going off.

Now, the prosecutors at the time were going, why does the name Planker sound familiar?

Gross.

Why does Planker?

I know that name.

Don't look it up.

And then they went, Ew.

That's exactly.

You're going to regret this, boy.

They said, oh, gross.

His father's Wayne.

Why did we open that file?

This is Wayne's kid.

They just had looked, they're like, Planker.

Why is Planker?

They looked up Planker and they're like, there's a Wayne Planker.

Oh, no.

Oh, oh, gross.

Okay.

So they're like, he's in prison.

That's nasty.

So still on August 17th, now, this is still Sunday.

This all takes place.

It's all happening very quickly.

This day, the detectives, by the way, they let him walk out.

Yeah.

They got nothing on him.

They got nothing on him.

They don't even know where she is.

So she might be in Wildwood for all they find out.

She could just be doing great somewhere.

Yeah.

I mean, he seems like an asshole, but outside of that.

He sucks and his dad's worse.

But what's up?

That doesn't mean you're a kidnapper or whatever.

So still August 17th, 1997.

On this day, Detective Brian Callahan of the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office received a call from Dana Cott

granting him consent to search her 1986 gray Pontiac that she shared with Kevin, her car.

This guy is everywhere.

This is wild.

Holy shit.

So he searches the car and what he finds in the car is

wild.

Okay, this is what's in the car.

Unless you're a logger, you should have none of this shit in your car.

Giant axes.

He has a chainsaw, a gas can, a pickaxe, a chopping axe, two shovels and a bow saw.

And a bow saw.

Yeah.

He does not clear brush or anything.

That is a hardcore dismemberment disposal kick is what that is.

That is Paul Bunyan stuff.

Holy shit.

Wow.

Yeah.

The cop does not remove the items from the car.

He's going to wait for a team and do all that kind of thing.

Got to have it.

Where's blue?

So August 18th, 1997, the Monday.

Is it babe?

Yeah, babe.

Blue is babe.

Yeah, babe.

Okay.

So,

sorry, I'm in the middle of a

murder story.

So the car is found.

Her car.

Yeah.

Because otherwise, they didn't know where her car is.

Hermitsubishi.

Hermitsubishi is found at the Vince Lombardi service area of the New Jersey Turnpike.

Vince Lombardi's from New Jersey.

Oh.

That's why.

Okay.

Yeah.

He's a Vince Lombardi.

Where's the Vince Lombardi service area?

How far?

That's just where they named it.

No, no, no.

No, how far from here?

How far from here?

Yeah, how far from here?

Turnpike?

Oh, I'm not sure.

I mean, it's a very shuffle.

Okay.

Who knows?

It's a little bit more.

Around,

around,

to outside.

Nowhere that she goes.

No, well, not that she, it was there all night.

A trucker saw it all night, woke up, it was still there the next morning with the window open, so he called the cops.

Looks weird.

And it was her 96 Black Mitsubishi Eclipse.

Nice car.

Hot chick car for a 21-year-old.

Oh, cool.

It's cool as shit.

That's cool.

It's a hot chick shit car.

So

this was located in the truck parking lot of the area.

That's why it caught his attention.

Why is that car here?

The car was unlocked with the sunroof open and the keys on the front passenger seat.

This is an invitation to steal this car.

That's what this is.

Exactly.

Take this off of my responsibility.

Get it away from here.

But no,

because this guy called the cops.

They came out.

In the car was a purse

containing all sorts of Sandra's personal paperwork and things.

Shit, you keep in your purse.

And when is this, too?

Because that's August.

That's rainy season.

August 18th.

Yeah.

I mean, well, it's.

You don't leave the sunroof open overnight, though.

You never, because it can rain out of nowhere.

Northeast, it'll say it's not going to rain.

Then a storm just pops up.

It happens all the time.

Now your sunroof sucks.

Now it's wet.

Then they talk to Nicholas Ranieri, who's 16 years old at the time.

This Callahan meets with him, and

this guy says that Ranieri was visibly shaken, nervous, and definitely scared.

That's a problem.

He's 16.

He's getting talked about for a missing woman.

Yeah, that's a homicide.

You're brought to the homicide department and sat in a fucking interrogation room.

Next to homicide cops.

That sounds scary when you're 16.

So Ranieri gave some information, but the Callahan guy terminates the interview, telling Ranieri, quote, there's a lot more

saying about Ranieri.

There was a lot more that he wasn't telling, and that we're going to speak again, basically.

Listen, you're not telling me everything now.

I'm going to let you go home and think about it for a while.

And then we'll get back to you.

Go have some wet shit for a few weeks.

And then we'll see if you've got to fucking change your tune, asshole.

See if you're willing to get that shit solidified.

So back to Chad the neighbor now.

Chad the neighbor, this is

a friend zone guy here.

He said he believes that

Kevin killed her.

He said, I think Kevin killed Sandra because they had just broken up.

They fought loudly outside her apartment building on the night she disappeared, he said.

And when he called Sandra from his friend's house in Lodi to see if she was all right, she told him she was talking to Planker on the other line.

Oh, boy.

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Now back to the show.

So, Chad might be that guy, by the way, because in the newspaper it said he will only identify himself as Chad.

Okay.

So, that might not be his real name.

He might be John, who's the guy that's the boy.

Okay, so it's all connected.

Maybe Chad's scared of

think so.

Yeah.

Yeah, Chad's pretty fucking scared.

Absolutely.

He got threatened by a guy who could kill him.

He just wants to come over and fix it his way.

Fix this.

We'll take care of this my way.

Wow.

He said she'd seen he wasn't going to change and she wanted to get rid of him.

She was petrified of him and was telling me that she was going to move back home to be safe.

She didn't want to have to worry about him back home to her parents' house.

Now, also, Chad describes...

you know, Planker is this big giant guy, 6'3 ⁇ , 240, and said that also during their relationship, Sandra told me that he used to hit her.

Also, he's hit her before.

And because she's scared of him, Sandra spent as much time with Chad as she could so she wasn't over at the apartment.

He said, she called me the night that she went missing.

She was crying.

She'd had a fight with Kevin.

That's the last thing I ever heard from her.

So Tuesday, August 19th here, Dana Cott gives a statement to police describing certain items of furniture

including a coffee table, television, television stand, dishes, pots, pans, and other accessories that Kevin brought into their apartment over this last weekend.

Shipped from her apartment.

Why would he do that?

Fucking a coffee table.

Why would you take that?

It's dumb as fuck.

So Wednesday, August 20th, that's when Dana Cott gives them consent to search her apartment.

Yeah.

And they search the apartment and they see several items belonging to Sarah, to Sandra Teranova.

During the course of the search, several people, including Kevin, approached the apartment.

Now, Callahan was the perimeter security outside.

Yeah.

Kevin walks right up to him and says, you know, you guys are wasting your time.

You should be out catching people who are robbing banks.

You know, real criminals.

She's over in Wildwood.

You're breaking my fucking balls.

The guy said, well, you know, just doing my job, just doing my job.

And then Kevin says this.

Oh, boy.

Here it is, everybody.

Kevin looks at the guy and says, well, just remember, nobody, no crime.

Why do they all?

And fucking walks away.

Why Why would you tell a homicide detective that?

Don't tell him that.

Ever.

You're not even a suspect yet.

Just remember, nobody, no crime.

You don't find anything?

Nothing happened.

I picture him winking once and like nudging him with his elbow and then, what the fuck are you doing?

Holy shit.

No shit.

Nobody, no crime.

Yet again.

I remember.

It's incredible.

This guy's a fucking idiot.

Doesn't Jersey come up in that song, too?

I think it does.

Jersey?

No, trench town.

Trenchtown.

That is in

not in this country.

There's another one in

there's a Jersey reference in the Fuji's version.

Yes, yes, yes.

There you go.

Yeah, so nobody, no crime.

Incredible.

He actually just remembered that

it's going to be a small-town murder episode.

Okay.

He might as well have said that because that cemented it.

It's so fascinating, too, that making a case.

And that's not true anymore.

It hasn't been true for a long time for so long.

So the same day now, five o'clock, the cops are going to talk to Nicholas Ranieri again.

Let's see if you've

got

a chat now.

Come here, squirt.

Now that your asshole's sore and puckery, let's talk about this.

We're going to call you squirt for more reasons than you're 16.

Come here.

That's right.

And more reasons than your size.

So he describes, as he did here,

the events involving him and Kevin on the morning of August 17th.

Oh.

He said, all right.

Monday.

That's the Sunday.

Sunday, yeah.

He said, okay, fine.

I will, I'll talk.

Yeah.

He said that that morning, Kevin picked him up in the gray Pontiac.

That is the

Dana Kotz car.

There were shovels, a chainsaw, a gas can in the car that were normally not in the car.

They're never in the car.

Never in the car.

So he said that Kevin drove Rani to Jefferson Township, where he pulled into a dirt road near a chain link fence.

He then stopped at a clearing and turned to Ranieri and said, there's a body over there.

You have to help me hide it.

Oh,

never tell me that.

Hello, child.

Never tell me.

You have to help me hide it.

You have to.

Fuck.

No, I don't.

I am running.

So

Ranieri said he observed

a mound of dirt about one foot high and six feet long,

covered with dirt and sticks.

He said that, Jesus Christ, that Kevin walked over to it, quote, started hopping on it, and then he urinated on it.

What?

This guy's a piece of shit.

Monster.

He then shoveled more dirt onto the pile.

Then Kevin cut down several trees with a chainsaw

and pulled them over the mound.

That's a lot of noise he's making.

Oh, he's and freshly cut trees laying on it.

You can't make it more obvious.

Gee, we're looking for disturbed ground.

How about where all those freshly cut trees are laying for some reason follow your nose it's going to smell like wood chips yeah like god dang trees fall in the woods they don't aren't chainsawed down

none of my trees that fall i go out there and go smooth smooth smooth break i got to take you for a little walk too there is a scary spot out there oh yeah oh boy we'll talk

so the uh he then okay so this is wild he cuts down trees pulls them over the mound then kevin backs the car down the dirt road a short distance cuts another tree, causing it to fall across the road,

quote, so no one could be able to drive back here.

Oh, he's hiding it real to fucking block the road.

He said they were in the clearing for about an hour.

So it only took him an hour to do all this shit.

It's fast.

Ranieri did not ask Kevin whose body was in the grave.

He said, I did not want to know and I didn't want anything about it.

And while driving home, Kevin told Ranieri, quote, there's a couple people in this world that I wouldn't kill even if they put me away.

And you're one of them Only a couple only a couple people I wouldn't kill in this world

And you're one of them

buddy I got my whole life ahead of me Wow, that's that's what you want to hear though after you help somebody cover a body or you go with them to a body location So you're not gonna kill any good So this is just above ground.

He just put shit on it just put shit on it.

It's a it's a very shallow grave, but it's not deep enough for a good human body.

So after giving his statement, Ranieri drew a map of the grave location that night.

They drove out there.

The detective drove out to the area, but couldn't locate the dirt road because it was rainy and foggy out.

So he gave up.

The next day, he found the dirt road.

Ranieri went with him, helped him find the dirt road, and led him to the area.

At about 9.55 p.m.

is when they uncovered Sandra's body.

Oh, my God.

It contained clothing and jewelry matching the description of Sandra, and she has a rose tattoo that matches.

Bingo.

So we know where she is.

So that's August the 23rd, as they find her.

They found the trees down across the road, which matched up exactly to what Ranieri told.

Because at first, they thought Ranieri was full of shit.

They thought he was lying about this, too.

But then, once they see the trees down, they go, oh, either he did this or he's telling the truth.

They don't think he did it because he had no reason.

Too little.

Yeah, he didn't even have a license, I don't think.

So they found fresh dirt where Sandra was buried in a heavily wooded area off Berkshire Valley Road near Route 15.

The body was about a half mile into the woods near the dirt road.

They said it was a watershed property in Jefferson Township.

Sandra was buried beneath one and a half feet of dirt.

That is so shitty.

That is so fucking lazy, too.

You can kill someone to be lazy.

Her body was clothed except for her shoes and was found by prosecutors and Bergen County Sheriff's Department officers Thursday because the prosecuting attorneys came for this too.

Really?

Everyone said, we're going to find her, so whoever wants to be there, be there.

And they came out.

Assistant Bergen County prosecutor Sharon Pfeiffer said that a tentative identification was made from the rose tattoo on her ankle.

It feels like that shallow of a grave would leave a depression eventually.

Oh, eventually, yeah, it will.

Because there's just not the body takes up too much space.

That's going to

absolutely.

That's bad planning.

Yeah.

Bad fucking planning.

Around the site were six or seven cigarette butts.

Oh.

A discovery apparently presented to tie into the claims that, because Blanker's a smoker, so they know he smokes, and these are cigarette butts.

They also said they spent several hours painstakingly removing and examining the brush that covered the grave.

That's why it wasn't until 9.55.

They couldn't just rip everything off.

They had to do it properly.

They said the grave was six feet long and two feet wide.

Jesus Christ.

Lazy.

And

yeah, he said also that she was, Sandra was lying on her left side in there.

Her face was entirely swollen, and her eyes were swollen shut, and her hands were clenched.

The detective said she was unrecognizable.

Just beaten.

Beaten.

Yeah.

Silly.

Now, the prosecutor was there as well.

He is the new Bergen County prosecutor, William H.

Schmidt.

He said he remembers standing over the grave in the woods and said, you thought it could be your daughter, your niece.

It had an impact on everyone who was there that day.

I thought, what went wrong?

This was not a random victim.

How can we take something tragic like this and learn from it?

There's not a lot of learning.

And that is tough, too, because because she's small.

Yeah.

So that makes them look even more vulnerable.

You know what I mean?

You find somebody small in there.

It's even

sadly.

A five-foot girl.

Five, three, a hundred pounds is.

No match for a six-foot-three guy.

No, he's a normal.

He knows how to throw a punch.

Yeah.

The autopsy discloses the presence of spermatozoa with DNA in there that we'll find out

that matches in her vaginal canal.

The external exam discloses bruises surrounding the left eye on the scapular area of the left side of her back and on the right lower back which occurred

pre-death and were the result of blunt force trauma.

There were also bruising on the victim's feet

occurring post-mortem.

Why?

They said that could have resulted from being dragged possibly by things.

The hyoid bone in the neck was broken.

Okay, so a strangulation.

No, it's a strangle job.

The cause of death was mechanical asphyxia and blunt trauma to the head and face with an associated finding of a fracture to the hyoid bone.

Rage.

Inside her was an embryo.

No.

About six weeks old.

She was pregnant.

That was pregnant.

DNA matches who?

Oh.

Fucking Kevin.

That's a problem.

That is Kevin's fucking baby in there.

Absolutely.

That adds to problems, though.

There's a lot of problems with this.

So, yeah, it makes him look even guiltier.

So after Kevin was

questioned,

like we said,

you know, we knew he denied everything.

Yeah.

But we found out from Ranieri that basically

they questioned him on that Sunday.

They released him and he went right and picked up Ranieri and headed straight for the woods.

Wow.

He went from the fucking prosecutor's office to get Ranieri to go to the woods to cover this up better.

Because she was already buried, but now he put the trees on it and shit to make it better.

So that's when he used the chainsaw.

The prosecutor said he went back after being questioned and tried to disguise the grave.

Fascinating.

So he's arrested,

obviously,

you know, having a lot of problems.

It's very weird that he's so rageful and

capable of doing terrible, terrible things.

Oh, yeah.

And he didn't use any of those instruments to make the body smaller.

Nope, none of those.

None of that.

Saws everywhere.

He's just for the trees.

Yep.

Just for the trees.

Super fucking weird.

Gas can thought maybe he's going to burn.

Burner.

Nothing.

Nothing at all.

Just cutting down some trees and stacking wood.

So strange.

So they sit him down again for another interrogation.

By the way, he's on parole.

So this is

real bad.

Not that it'll be good anyway.

But this is extra worse.

They read him his Miranda rights, took him to the Rochelle Park Police Department.

He declined to sign the Miranda waiver form as a thing, which doesn't matter as long as you say it.

Because they read it to him.

They can't force you to sign it.

It's just whatever.

They said that he appeared as if he was not concerned with the new, because they said, we found Sandra's body.

They said it appeared he was not concerned.

One of the reasons why he didn't appear concerned is because rather than putting his head in his hands or something like that, he was quote making gestures with his hands and fingers as if he was playing the guitar.

He was air guitaring.

He was going

Sandra's dead.

We found her body.

Air guitaring.

Fucking American girl.

What the fuck are you doing?

This is weird.

You think he's a villain technical?

That's what I'm all I could think of.

He's like, fucking Wayne and Garth here.

This is ridiculous.

He's like, that's how he celebrates Brad Brown.

We found him.

Yeah.

I don't understand it.

Rock on, guys.

Yeah.

Woo, metal.

Wow.

So he initially just reiterates the same story that she's at the shore.

Yeah.

Then they ask him, when you killed her, was it spontaneous or an accident?

Oh.

So he stands up.

He's very bad at this.

He stands up and paces back back and forth for a while.

Oh.

Imagine just pacing, pacing, after which sometime he's just muttered, accident.

They're like, oh,

okay.

So now they're like, we're going to take you to the prosecutor's office now that we kind of cracked you a little bit.

There he signed a miranda form for the prosecutor and starts talking.

Really?

Oh, he's going to talk.

Oh, yeah.

He said on Thursday, August 14th, he went to Sandra's apartment to discuss their relationship.

They talked on the steps of her apartment building, then proceeded upstairs and engaged in sexual relations.

He said that he, quote, felt that the sex wasn't good and he did not orgasm because

he felt that Sandra was seeing other men.

Well, then why did you?

If you knew that beforehand, why'd you do it if that made you so weirded out?

And then once you're in it, you're in it.

So get into it.

What do you think?

Finished.

Didn't finish.

But you did because we got got it.

No, no, no, no.

He's been that.

Well, that's what he says.

That's what I mean.

He must have.

I'm just saying this is what he says.

It's fucking true.

Right, right.

It's clearly not true.

Yeah.

He said then he left the apartment, drove around the block.

Yeah.

Then at about 7 p.m., called from the payphone, which is what he said before.

The call was interrupted by call waiting.

He went back up to the apartment, checked the caller ID, activated the star 69 feature.

A male voice answered.

Sandra attempted to take the phone from him.

Yeah.

After a brief struggle, after which he ripped the phone from the wall and stepped on it breaking it into several pieces whoa he broke and stomped her phone that's when he said he threw her on the bed

she was crying and this sexually aroused him he said this one did it that's now i can finish now i can finish i like terror it was that's what i go for because too much conception she was all into it it was weird you know

He then said he began to engage in sexual intercourse with her, but thought that Sandra was, quote, not into it.

So he said they stopped the sexual encounter, and he asked Sandra if she was fucking anyone else, to which she replied, I can't fuck anyone.

I have to make love.

Oh, boy.

That's what he says.

So then he says, this is insane.

He then said he ripped her shirt off and bit her breast like hard.

Yeah.

Not okay.

Not, you know, in a fun way.

Not in a fun way.

Not in a fun way.

Yeah.

Not a nibble, a bite.

Then he took his hands and applied pressure to her throat until she turned red and stopped breathing.

Oh, boy.

Then he just threw her lifeless body to the floor, he said.

Which part of that was an accident?

Dumb.

Accident.

Yeah.

He then said, just to make sure, he put a telephone cord around her neck to try to make it look like a suicide.

But he was unable to find a place where he could hang the cord.

Right.

He was going to hang her up, but he's like, there's nowhere to fucking hang the cord in here.

Wow.

So he got stuck with that, couldn't do anything.

So instead, he just dressed himself, dressed her back up again, dressed her corpse, and left the apartment.

He took a fucking corpse out of this apartment to the car.

Jesus.

Which is ballsy.

Yeah.

That's ballsy.

During the daytime.

During, I think this is nighttime now, but either way, it's crazy.

He then took her car.

He said he confided to his friend Mike Vasile that he had just murdered Sandra, after which Vasil began to cry and told him he didn't want to be involved because he's not a monster.

This Mike Vasille's a decent human being.

Oh, my.

He said, oh, my God, you killed Sandra.

I like Sandra.

That's horrible.

What's wrong with you?

He then obtained a shovel from the shed of his friend Pat Gallagher and also told Gallagher he killed Sandra too.

Stop telling me where are all these fellas at?

That's what I mean.

What's your problem?

Where are these people?

Where are the people telling that his dad's telling he's going to rape 14-year-olds and let them do the same thing?

Where are these people?

Jersey keeps secrets like nobody.

Hey, mind your fucking business.

That's not my problem.

Hey, mind your business in every aspect except for this.

Maybe the murder.

Somebody tells you they killed somebody.

Believe them.

Somebody tells you they're molesting children.

Don't mind your business at that point.

So he said that he told this guy that.

He said he returned to Sandra's apartment at about midnight.

That's when he carried the body down to the car, drove to Jefferson Township where he buried it, returned the shovel to his friend, and went back to Sandra's apartment where he proceeded to take items of her furniture because why not?

She won't need them.

He transported those items to his apartment that he shared with Kot and then he went to sleep.

Wow.

He also confirmed Ranieri's recitation of events August 17th and recounted how he brought Sandra's car to the Vince Lombardi service area as well.

He stated that he was a real control freak.

I think we got that.

And in the past, he had placed neckties around Sandra's neck as if he was choking her while they had sex.

So he was into that and this was just a bigger step, he said.

Then after that, he refused to write it out.

He wouldn't write it.

He wouldn't do that.

He wouldn't do a stenographic statement.

So that's what they have.

Now,

pretty obvious what they think happened.

Obviously, you know, pretty clear.

He just gave it all up, and it all matches all the evidence.

Don't know what he was thinking, but yeah, he drove off Berkshire Valley Road onto a dirt path leading in the woods, put Terranova in a shallow grave, covered it with dirt, and that was it.

Thought, I'll get away with that.

Then they interviewed him.

He went, oh, shit, I got to go back and cover that grave up better.

And that's what he did to block the path and then dropped the car off.

In his first court appearance, he is described by the newspaper as looking sullen as he stood in the courtroom wearing shackles and an orange prison jumpsuit.

He

really surprised everybody when the judge, William Meehan, asked him if he wanted a lawyer.

He didn't have a lawyer.

And he said, quote, no, sir, I intend to plead guilty.

Really?

And the judge said, I'm going to go ahead and enter a not guilty plea for you.

We're going to get you a lawyer.

You haven't spoken to a lawyer yet.

So you're going to get a lawyer before you plead guilty to murder, let's say.

So I'm going to enter that for you and set your bail at a million dollars, which go to jail.

You're not getting out.

You're not getting out.

So he does give him not guilty, though.

So then, you know, he showed no emotion during the appearance.

He did complain while the prosecutor was reading off a bunch of stuff saying that he had once been arrested for drug possession.

He said, I'd never been arrested for drugs in my life nor convicted.

Okay.

Yeah.

He's like, weed's not drugs.

Yeah.

So don't do the hard stuff.

Leave me alone.

I got arrested for a plant.

Come on.

So Sandra's parents, her father and her sister's,

her father and her sister's fiancé attended the arraignment

there.

The prosecutor said about that, having your daughter found in a shallow grave, that's got to be every father's nightmare.

I would say so.

Yep.

Shallow, deep, really.

The grave size is really not.

The grave is the part that sucks.

In the grave is what I'm worried about.

So can we prevent this?

After the murder here, the prosecutor gathered domestic violence experts, police prosecutors, counselors, and representatives of Alternatives to Domestic Violence, a county program that ministers to battered men and women, and saying, how can we fix this, basically?

Yeah.

You know, how can other potential victims, particularly young people who aren't like in a 20-year marriage, that can get out of this easily, how do we get through to these people?

They said Sandra will be among those remembered on a special day of remembrance to remember victims of domestic violence in the state.

There'll be a march and a program at the state house sponsored by the New Jersey Federation of Women's Clubs.

Stop beating us, is there?

Yeah,

okay.

If you've been hit, get out.

Get the fuck out.

It's not going to get better.

It ain't getting better.

Either side, if he or she

has hit you, it's only going to get worse.

You're not going to fix it.

No.

And it's just get the fuck out of there whatever the consequences are of leaving yeah they will be financially they will be smoothed out by it in time in five years i'm sure it's going to be much better no i don't care if you have to sleep in your car for a while it's better than it's going to be much better than physical peril like that crazy crazy so

trial comes up yeah he wants to represent himself really this fucking idiot wants to represent himself He now wants to talk about it and plead not guilty.

So they said he'd expressed a desire to represent himself.

The judge engaged in an extensive back and forth with him and concluded that he had made a knowing, willing, and intelligent, voluntary waiver of his right.

And now he can go ahead and railroad himself to prison.

Fuck himself as long as he's right in the ass.

He also expressed his wish that his lawyer, Weischel, remain available to advise and assist him.

Great call.

So the judge ordered that the defendant be permitted to proceed pro se and designated Weischel as standby counsel.

The state does not oppose the request in the trial court and does not

can't oppose it because if he really wants to do it, that's a big appeal ground later on.

Yeah, you got your right.

And if you're standing on your morals like this, then, all right, let's do it.

And I think, though, a lot of these people...

Laurel, it's Laurels.

Laurels.

Yeah, yeah.

I think a lot of these people, too, that represent themselves think that...

There'll be some fuck-ups that they can then figure out in appeals because they, which is not really how it works.

It's not a good strategy.

It's a bad strategy.

So the case is given to a new judge.

This is the Judge Mehan guy who did all the pretrial shit here.

So they talked about he,

Kevin complains to Judge Mehan that there's been no investigation undertaken on his behalf by the public defender's office.

So a representative of the public defender's office said, our position is that we are in or out.

If we are out, the most we will do is stand by counsel and answer your questions.

Your honor hasn't ordered anything.

If your honor orders something, maybe our position will be different.

We're not volunteering to undertake any investigations for the defendant unless our guy is the attorney of record, basically.

Like if we're not trying the case.

We're not doing it, then we're not doing it.

Yeah, we're not doing it.

So then the following took place.

The judge said, are you capable of handling this matter?

Do you believe that?

And Kevin said, no, not entirely.

Not really.

Not particularly.

I'm a dummy.

I've been hitting the head a lot.

I don't know if you know that.

I'm asking for co-counsel.

And if the public defender's office does not want to issue co-counsel, I'm asking that the court act as co-counsel the judge cannot act as co-counsel that is a conflict of interest like you can't believe not legally a sound thing at all um and the courts the judge said the court will not act as co-counsel no

so kevin says somebody has to

not me motherfucker get a lawyer that's not in the already involved in the case in another way well goddamn a judge somebody has to get one of the prosecutors to help me i don't know

give me anybody.

I don't care.

Somebody has to.

That's a great question.

Somebody has to.

I don't know the law.

I don't know shit.

He said, if I'm going to be granted pro se or to be, the only thing I'm asking is that

I be able to cross-examine the witnesses that I want to cross-examine.

I'll be able to present my opening and closing statements, and that's it.

Other than that, I mean, the only reason I'm even taking this stance right now is because nothing was done that I wanted.

As a matter of fact, the opposite things were done that I asked for.

What I am going to do

is sit back and let everybody, what am I going going to do?

Sit back and let everybody do what they want?

It's my life on the line here.

It's my life we're talking about, and I would like to play a role in it.

So the judge then asks his counsel, what reason is there that you could not handle this matter?

And the judge said that he didn't think the defendant had any confidence.

I don't think he has any confidence in me, so I don't want to be on this case anymore.

To which Kevin said, I don't feel that way.

I have 100% confidence in him.

The problem is that I don't have confidence that he has confidence.

He's not confident in me.

That's the thing.

I don't, he doesn't believe that I'm innocent, you know, because all the DNA.

By the way, the DNA in her is his.

Yeah.

It all matches.

You're fucked.

I got confidence in me.

I don't got confidence that he's got confidence in him.

Yeah.

Or know in me.

That's really the case.

Or anybody.

He might have read my interrogation.

And I would.

He might know something, Your Honor.

Wow.

The judge then said to that counsel, I'll put you back in the case right now.

We'll keep this probably coming about every week or two.

And then he said that he was vacating the order, allowing the defendant to represent himself, after which the defendant said, what the fuck?

Why not?

He said, so I'm no longer able to participate.

And the judge says, you can.

And he said, right now we may deal with it down the road.

The judge says, you have to make the choice when the trial date gets set as to whether or not you want to try the case entirely or you want Mr.

Weischel to try it entirely.

And he said, can it be done halfway?

Can we have it?

Can we have any of this shit?

I mean, what the fuck?

And the judge says, not unless you and Mr.

Weischel and the public defender's office can agree on some division of responsibilities.

Because one of the first appeals in every murder case that I've seen is incompetent counsel.

It's added in.

He said, it's so, Mr.

Weischel, if he's going to try the whole case and you want to accuse him of incompetent counsel down the road, it's fine if you do.

So they said, if you can do some research and find something that deals with it, we will consider it.

So if you can find legal precedent, idiot who's been hitting the head a lot,

do that.

And he's some case law, Dick Face.

Yeah, you know how to do that, I'm sure.

So he said, well, that's what I'll do then, Kevin said.

He said, I'm not asking that Mr.

Weischel to come in and do what I tell him to do and this and that and blah, blah.

And blah, blah, blah.

And blah, blah, blah.

Legal jargon.

He said, I believe, you know, legal stuff that I don't know.

I fill it in with a blah.

He said, I believe that's my right to be able to do this.

And the judge says, look it up.

If you come up with a case that says it, I'll allow it.

Listen, Charlie Day, sit down.

Find me precedents, Bird Law.

Let's see what you got.

so on october 8th 99 following the denial of a motion to suppress he requested through counsel permission to ask questions with his attorney and we can both tag team him the judge says i'm not going to i don't even first of all

i'm so frustrated so frustrated with you other than when there are two attorneys my rule is only one attorney per witness whoever like someone stands up and objects they got that witness whether they like it or not right but i'm not going to, I don't think it works well as a strategy.

You have, you certainly would be destroyed as an attorney.

Questions may not follow through and sequences from one witness to another.

I'm going to deny their request.

You're going to be excoriated.

You're going to jail if you do this.

Totally.

So the defense attorney says, I just want to note for the record, that's what my client wants.

And so they said, fine.

So Weitchel's going to make opening statements.

Basically,

they're going to allow Kevin to

basically tell this guy what to say.

Fine.

He can ask all the, the guy, the lawyer asked all the questions, but Kevin's like writing down the questions for him to ask.

Ask him this, ask him that.

Which is whenever it's a defendant doing this, it's always like personal shit that doesn't matter.

It's Lori Vallo asking about my green chili chicken fucking enchilada.

See me.

Conspire.

It does not help at all.

It's bad.

So the state calls several witnesses.

Weischel has objections in cross-examining the witnesses.

Pretty uneventful shit here.

This continues on October 27th.

Then for the first time in the trial, in the middle of October 27th, 1999, all of a sudden Kevin says, I'd like to restore him to his standby role, my lawyer.

I'd like to be the lawyer again.

What's up with this guy?

He said that the judge told the judge there were questions he believed should be asked and that his attorney wasn't asking.

He said, I'm prepared to ask the questions that need to be asked.

The judge replied, that's why I requested Mr.

Weischel stand next to you so that you can communicate with him.

And he said, oh, okay, yeah.

He said, now I understand that and I'll abide by those rulings.

That wasn't stipulated before.

Thank you.

You don't even know what stipulated means.

So subsequent to this, the defense counsel had stood next to him at all times while, you know, there was, while he was asking questions, he stood next to defense counsel, and the defendant told the counsel what questions to ask.

In spite of numerous conferences with Kevin, the defense counsel refused to ask certain questions or call certain witnesses he deemed as irrelevant.

Well, number one, you're not going to be allowed.

You can't call irrelevant people just to tell a story that you want.

You can't just jam up this court with stories about the meter reader.

No.

So the defense counsel later on set forth for the record his reasons for not complying with all the requests.

Anyway, Kevin chooses to proceed pro se, must be able and willing to abide by the rules of procedure in courtroom protocol, the judge said.

And he said that his original decision to revoke his right of self-representation may not be based on the defendant's lack of technical knowledge or on the complexity of the case.

So he said, listen, it's their right whether they want to know anything or not.

Anyway, so they said this is a hybrid representation that usually doesn't happen in New Jersey.

Yeah, this is bizarre.

Because we just did this with the Lori Vallo debal, and the judge basically said, either you're the lawyer or your lawyer's the lawyer.

Only one of you is going to talk.

We're going to call it advisory counsel.

They're going to sit next to you.

If at any point you decide you want them to do anything, you're done.

Then it changes to her, and that's the end of your shift.

If you can't handle it, then you're not the lawyer.

That's it.

And so they said, although a defendant has the constitutional right to proceed with or without counsel, the right to hybrid representation may be foreclosed and is to be avoided whenever possible.

It says in New Jersey shit.

So it makes sense.

Anyway, they're going to let him be half of his own lawyer anyway.

They said, even though the defendant does not have a constitutional right to choreograph a counsel's role, he granted him the right by requesting that the defense counsel remain next to him.

So basically, he's going to stick his hand up your ass and talk for you.

A little howdy duty today.

Yep.

So the defense counsel complies with the requests by repeatedly conferring with Kevin and allowing Kevin to control the examination of witnesses.

So, yeah, he said that's how that goes.

His attorney is fucking frustrated.

This guy, John L.

Weischel, he is frustrated.

Yeah.

He doesn't know what the fuck to do.

He's just really, really

said, I'll defend you.

Please don't do this.

We said that Planker would not be denied.

This is just the way it is.

Now, during the beginning of the trial, there is a juror death threat.

What?

Which doesn't happen often.

Yes, a threat against one of the jurors.

Her house was called.

Her husband answered the phone, and they were told something very specifically here.

The trial,

it's crazy.

Okay, I'll get to this here.

It happened right in the beginning of the trial,

and

the juror's husband picked up the phone, and the person said, if Kevin Planker is convicted, your wife is dead.

Okay.

So the husband called authorities who told him not to tell his wife.

Don't tell her.

Don't tell her.

Because it'll fuck the whole trial up.

You'll have to have a mistrial if we do this.

So in requesting the story be withheld, the cops said they were concerned that other friends or family members of the jurors in the case might read about the threat and inform the target.

Right.

And a mistrial would have followed.

So Kevin likes to get involved, by the way, in the trial.

He's very animated in the courtroom, feeding questions to the lawyer, grabbing him by the shirt and shit like that.

Sometimes abruptly popping up from his seat to object to a question or comment.

He thinks he got a stand to do it?

Absolutely.

A section of the tree, of the trunk of the hickory tree that rested on the shallow grave, was placed on a juror, on a table for jurors to examine.

They love a physical piece of something to look at.

A wedge from the tree, presumably cut by the chainsaw, was also presented.

Like, look at all the shit he had to do.

They also showed the jurors shovels, a chainsaw, and other evidence served, seized from the home.

Obviously, Kevin has to testify.

He has no choice.

Really?

He's fucked.

Otherwise, there's DNA.

He said he didn't do it.

He said he didn't do it.

He testifies for 11 hours.

Eesh.

Wow.

That's two days.

Yeah.

God damn.

He offered a rigorous defense here, and vigorous and rigorous.

He blamed the killing on

the woman-female ministry person he was fucking, who she'll testify.

Why would he do that when you've

got a little guy that told the cops where the body is at?

That's who did it.

That's who you got to blame.

Nope, it's her.

Wow.

It's her.

Isn't that crazy?

It's a dumb shit.

She put my semen in her.

Oh, she did all that.

She had it from her.

She took it and transferred it.

He says that the woman was in love with him.

And,

yeah, he said that.

Dana?

No, no, no.

No, Dana's not the best.

The church lady.

Yeah.

He complained bitterly that authorities had allegedly pressured family members and friends into turning against him.

He gave some testimony also, some honest testimony about the more sordid details of his life, including his habitual marijuana use, criminal record, and circle of girlfriends.

Nine hours of direct testimony, and it was two hours across.

He had an answer for all the shit here, including

because they have to go, well, why'd you confess to this crime now?

And yeah, he just said, they just pressured me into it.

And, you know, I felt pressure and I felt bad for Sandra.

And I just wanted to, you know, make it all stop and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Maybe they'd shut up and I can get back to Er Guitar.

Maybe I'd go, man, yeah.

His attorney, by the way, was

frustrated as well.

He reported in open court that his client had given him 27 pages of questions to ask during his testimony.

Ask me all this shit.

Wow.

That's amazing.

So he blames everyone, even though he confessed.

He denied killing her, contradicting his confession.

He definitely said it was the ministry worker that he met in jail in 95 and 96 who was in love with him and jealous of the women in his life.

The judge cut him off as he tried to continue with his accusations against the ministry lady

here,

saying that we're not going to allow that it wasn't cleared ahead of time, the alternate suspect thing.

In earlier testimony here,

he kept blaming her and was alluding to her.

He claims that she was in love with him and was consumed by jealousy toward any other woman in his life, especially Sandra.

And also, this woman, they get this woman on the stand and she has to admit that not only, yes, they were having an affair, that she had sexual encounters in jail with him.

I knew it it was a rule.

I didn't know it was a law.

Yeah, she's out here ruining her life.

Jesus.

So he denied burying her, killing her, denied, he denied confessing to the cops.

Really?

He didn't just say the confession was wrong.

He said, I didn't say any of that shit, which is wild.

The defense theory was that Sandra Goldsweig, that's the woman's name, the church lady, was the one who shooted him.

And Sandra, too.

Sandra, also, absolutely.

Wow.

They said that

they said, were you advised by your attorney?

Because they said that you said you went out there, that your friend said he peed on, you pissed on the grave, all this.

He said, absolutely 100% not.

Which is the same thing OJ said.

Follow the word guilty.

Absolutely 100%.

Not guilty.

That's what he said.

So he basically OJ'd it, which is not good.

Not good to be an OJ somewhere around there.

He added he did say some things to the cop because he was overcome by emotion after investigators showed him pictures of Sandra in a makeshift grave.

Kevin grew teary-eyed when he spoke with the photos.

He said he spoke to them and believed he was hallucinating.

So anything I may or may not have said, I was hallucinating.

Who knows?

Yeah, I said it all the colors.

He said, I was just thinking that she was gone.

She said that they said that she was pregnant and that it could have been my kid.

I was just thinking, life is short.

Sure is.

Life is short.

He said, I never told them anything.

I never told them anything about the death of Sandra Teranova because I did not kill Sandra Teranova.

Sandra Goldsweig killed Sandra Terranova.

Wow.

And then when they do the cross-examination, they ask a question and he says, the jury already thinks I'm guilty, so you can just get on with the case.

He tells her, just ask your fucking questions.

Not a good showing on the stand.

No.

So they got to bring Sandra Goldsweig in there to testify.

to admit to everything, but deny being jealous or killing anybody, basically.

She said, no, I didn't kill her i didn't bury her or anything about that um alibi witnesses are not allowed that he's mad at pat gallagher the guy he got the shovel from pat gallagher sr and pat gallagher jr

um and carol gallagher said they would have testified that that kevin was in their home on august 15th from 12 a.m to 4 30 a.m he just comes in the middle of the night for a while during a time when a woman's being murdered and buried and then he leaves that's what he does with with lawn equipment Yep.

That's wild.

So they said that the Gallagher's would have also testified that he could not have taken a shovel from their premises.

So that

locked shed, who knows?

Additionally, a certification from Sharbin Sabini states that another person had tried to solicit the victim's murder.

Somebody else wanted her dead.

Although the Gallagher's were present during the trial and the judge had ruled at defendants' personal request that they be permitted to testify, the defense counsel did not call them as witnesses, instead, instructing them to leave the courthouse.

Really?

So they can't be called to talk about the shovel.

Oh, God.

Then he's going to put them under oath and talk about did he come to your house?

Get out of here or else.

You're willing to lie, but are you willing to lie under oath?

That's it.

So

now, in the closing arguments, Weischel went as far as to plead with jurors to discount their.

He said, Listen,

please, I know that it looks bad.

Discount your personal feelings for my client.

We all know he's an asshole.

We all know it.

Every one of us.

I hate the guy, and I'm his attorney.

I can't stand him.

Discount your personal feelings for this guy.

He's an asshole, but he's not a guilty asshole, is what he says.

The verdict disagrees.

The jury finds him fucking guilty of any and everything possible here.

They needed less than two hours to convict him of six counts of murder, burglary, theft for killing, all this shit.

First-degree murder, two counts of third-degree burglary, third-degree hindering prosecution, two counts of third-degree theft by unlawful taking.

Yeah, he hurt her so bad and then took her coffee table.

And then that's unbelievable.

He said, I like that 27-inch Zenith.

I'm going to grab that.

What the fuck?

That's

a shame for that to go to waste.

I mean, she's got a Mitsubishi car,

matches her TV.

I'm going to take this too.

So, yeah, by the way, I would think hindering prosecution would be every defendant would get that.

Unless you did the crime and went right to the police station and turned yourself in, you're hindering prosecution.

We're in a trial right now.

It's all hindering prosecution.

You're fighting back.

Not guilty is hindering prosecution.

So that's so weird.

You could charge anyone with that.

Now, the jury finds him guilty.

That's to be expected, all the evidence.

But what's not to be expected is the fact that while the jury was being read, Kevin let out an over dramatic, big, long yawn like he wasn't listening.

He yawned.

What?

That's what he did.

At least he didn't bust into air guitar, but still, he did a big bored yawn.

Big bored yawn, then yawned several more times as the jurors answered questions posed by the judge.

What a psychopath.

That's a big fuck you.

By the way, in the middle of this trial, the trial judge had to have emergency surgery and they had to switch judges out, too.

So they were dealing with another judge here.

Now, the family reaction, the Terranova family and friends are all hugging each other.

Terra Nova, Nova,

this is Chad.

I guess Chad's a real person.

So I don't know if you've seen two.

I don't know what was going on.

It doesn't matter.

Chad said he got exactly what he deserved.

And a close friend of Terra Nova, Amanda DeMartin, said, I'm glad it's over.

He got what he deserved.

So the jurors feel the same way.

One juror said that,

quote, we didn't come out of there hating Kevin Planker.

No.

He said, a person's demeanor is the way they are.

It didn't necessarily make him a murderer.

In our hearts, we felt like we did the right thing.

So she said we didn't, this is appealable shit.

She said it wasn't because he was an asshole.

It's because he's a murderer.

He is, but he's also this.

Also, that.

The jurors never discussed, by the way, his attempts to shift blame for the killing onto the other.

They never even brought that up as a possibility.

That was just a bullshit thing he threw out.

They didn't believe him.

They weighed his credibility against the investigating authorities.

And they said it all boiled down to whether you believed his statement.

If you did, then you had to believe that the 27 people from the prosecutor's office perjured themselves.

Right.

So, yeah, because they didn't record the statement.

97, you still didn't have to have everything recorded.

So nowadays, obviously, the video would come on and we'd have all the interrogation we needed.

But at the time, this was just writing down what he said from the notes.

So the juror then, who was threatened, finds out about the death threat after the trial's over.

She said she was, what the fuck?

One, she said she was as shocked as anyone.

What the fuck, man?

This is crazy.

They did praise the woman's husband for allowing the system to work.

Had he told his wife, that would have been, she would have been removed from the jury.

Reached at home, the woman said she wasn't aware of the threat till

afterwards.

She said it's a scary situation.

She also said, I'm glad I was the alternate juror and I had no decision on the verdict.

So if it's still out there, please don't kill me.

Wasn't me.

They said that this threat attacks the very fabric of our jury system, the prosecutor said.

If that takes place, confidence in our jury system goes right down the tubes.

Yeah, obviously.

They said that they can't remember any similar threats during a criminal proceeding at the Bergen County Courthouse in the past two decades.

Wow.

They said they wouldn't name any suspects, but privately they're investigating whether Planker was involved.

Right.

Obviously, he denies any involvement.

Clearly, sentencing comes around here.

This guy's going to love doing this.

He says, you, sir, may fuck off life in prison,

subject to an 85% parole disqualifier and five years parole supervision in accordance with the no early release act.

On count, that's count one.

On counts two, four, five, and six, he sentenced him to five years of imprisonment concurrent to each other and concurrent to the other sentence.

On count three, he sentenced him to five years of imprisonment consecutive to the sentence opposed.

Five more.

Imposed.

So five more on top of that.

So, he's in for a long fucking time.

2003, he appeals.

They confirm the convictions,

but they remand him for re-sentencing on a non-no-early release act sentence on count one.

So, there's a legal problem there.

35%, yeah.

Yeah, he's sentenced, so he's re-sentenced to a term of life

imprisonment with 30-year parole eligibility

and five years after that.

So, he's not getting out for 35 years at least.

Over the next few appeals, there's a lot of them, he filed his first state petition for post-conviction relief in 2004, amended it in 2007, 2008, and then again in 2008, he was represented by counsel while filing a supporting brief.

And in 2008, they denied his post-conviction relief.

2008, December, more appealing.

God damn.

Public Defender's Office enters an appearance on his behalf.

And

this is the appeal appeal to the last appeal, essentially.

He's saying he was denied his Sixth Amendment right to self-representation, ineffective assistance of trial, appellate, and PCR counsel, cumulative error.

That's what he says.

So all together here.

He said that

all of that.

So he also wants to supplement the record, expand the record filed by him.

He asked for an order not compelling the state to disclose whether the juvenile witness Nicholas Ranieri was on juvenile probation at the time he provided his statements to police.

Because he's saying that could make him,

you know, if they say, hey, we're going to put you in jail if you don't tell us what you wanted, what we wanted to hear, because you're on probation, we can revoke it.

They're saying that could have been whatever.

But be honest here.

Tip of the iceberg.

It's ridiculous.

So he also contends that he was denied his Sixth Amendment right to self-representation.

He said of ineffective assistance of counsel.

I'm a shitty lawyer, apparently.

So he said that.

He said that they erred by failing to object to an introduction of evidence of other crimes and other bad acts, by failing to confront witnesses against him, by failing to object to the denial of a public trial, by failing to insist on his presence of all stages of the trial, and by failing to object to an impaired juror, and by failing to insist on his right to self-representation.

So all of that.

Also, that they didn't let him call the Gallagher's because they said there's, you know, they could have given him an alibi.

He said, those are my alibi people.

The court said at best, the Gallagher's testimony does nothing more than suggest the defendant did not bury the victim when he told the police he had performed the act.

Given the balance of evidence bearing on his guilt, which we now allow, we will now describe, there's no reasonable probability that the testimony would have affected the result of the trial.

Right.

Exactly.

It doesn't matter his timeline.

That's it.

He also said there was a juror compromise because of a threat transmitted to the juror's husband.

The prosecutor indicated that the husband had not said anything to the wife about the threat, and the juror did not deliberate on the case.

So they were like, there's no

prejudice at all.

Yeah.

Then in 2009, he sues Dana Kot.

Really?

Oh, yeah.

He sues everybody.

He's bored in jail.

Sued Dana?

Sued Dana.

I guess

from the record, it says from the court docs here.

Sued his baby's mama.

The initial judge did not terminate his appellant, his parental rights, although he denied visitation while he's in prison.

Okay.

So you still have parental rights, but she doesn't have to drag that kid to state prison to come see him.

So

he wants pictures of his kid.

He wants shit like that.

It's an appeal for a denial of parenting time by several orders of the family court.

He is incarcerated, serving 30 to life.

God damn.

You know,

what the fuck?

The respondent, meaning Dana, or the child, actually is the respondent, has filed no brief with us.

She did oppose the application at the trial division.

The child's mother made her desires quite clear when she said in her filing that I request the court uphold its previous rulings.

I request that the plaintiff be denied any contact of any kind, letters, phone calls, visits, progress reports, and pictures.

I request the court advise the plaintiff to desist in his attempts to contact me on a personal level.

I request the court deny his request for counsel, special advocate, or guardian, ad litem, for my son and for his request for further proceedings.

God, he had a boy.

That kid's fucking.

Oh, I I hope that kid turns out okay.

I request that the court honor my son's wishes and continue to protect his best interests by maintaining the no contact ruling.

So she fears a negative impact on her son if he has any contact with Kevin.

And I agree with her.

They said there's nothing in the record to support the thesis that visitation in any sense is in the best interest of the child, the court says.

Basically, not going to help the kid to bring him to prison.

No.

Fuck off.

2010, Wayne is still appealing.

The

conviction?

Dad is still appealing.

Oh, gross.

Dad's in prison.

They're in prison at the same time.

He's appealing?

He's been appealing.

God dang.

He does appeals.

This is an appeal of a denial of parole in January 2010.

He had been denied parole six times up to that point.

Good job, everybody.

And became eligible for consideration in January 2010.

At that time, the hearing officer referred the matter to a two-member board panel.

I don't know how you, what's the tiebreaker there?

Who conducted a hearing, which included an interview with Wayne and a review of his parole file.

Then they denied his parole and established a 30-month wait for his next hearing.

30 months.

It's two and a half years.

Yeah.

You're going to wait now, not every year.

Now we're going two and a half years.

They said that was just based on a number of factors, including his present incarceration for a multi-crime conviction, his criminal record, escalating seriousness of his crime, failure on prior probation, you know, being a disgusting

fucking monster that people would have nightmares about living in their closets.

Wow.

The panel cited his lack of insight into his criminal behavior, saying appellant is still seizing on new concepts to explain what happened.

The seeming depth of behavior on the street while in his 30s and antisocial pathology involved give greater weight to his unsuccessful search.

He's not trying to fix it.

Not trying to fix it.

More work needs to be done to place the prospect of crime beyond his narcissistic antisocial bent.

So they did consider that while in jail, he was infraction-free, participated in programs, including programs specific to behavior.

He had average to above-average institutional reports, but they said, doesn't matter.

He's just floating through, basically.

So, yeah, he's appealing all of that and everything.

So, he's denied there.

It's going to be a couple more years.

2015 is where it gets real entertaining.

Oh, boy.

As if it hasn't been already.

Kevin sues the state.

Fantastic.

For prison conditions.

A 57-page complaint.

He's mad that prison sucks.

Yes, that I had to read all of and pick out the parts that matter.

So,

mostly concerning the conditions of his confinement in ADSEG, which is the administrative segregation unit here.

First, he complains, prisoners in ADSEG are not given access to cleaning supplies upon their arrival.

I would really like some fucking fabuloso in here.

Something.

Where can I get some spick and span?

Get me some Windex.

I need to clean this bitch up.

Okay.

What is happening?

They're faced with dirty cells when moving to Adseg.

Saturdays are designated cleaning days for Adseg prisoners.

They're provided with a broom mop and a mop that sits in dirty water and a toilet brush that sits in a bucket of water used by the entire tier of 33 cells.

Gross.

Let's wipe everyone's shit all over your toilet.

With one brush.

One brush.

I mean, that's one of those things.

Prisons are real expensive.

Toilet brushes are not.

They're not expensive.

I don't know.

You're brushing a toilet.

Who gives a shit?

Well, get five for 33.

Just make it easier.

Just easier and quicker.

Yeah, you can do six at a time.

I'm not even talking about for conditions.

Just make it quicker.

It just seems inefficient to have one toilet brush for 33 people.

That's pretty funny.

The plaintiff also alleges that there's no hot water in the cells, no cleaning rags, bleach.

You're not giving prisoners bleach.

That shit's flammable, isn't it?

It's flammable.

They can throw it on each other.

They can fucking

poison each other.

There's so much bad things you can do with bleach.

No bleach.

You don't get bleach cleaning rags or other cleaning products provided to inmates.

They're not even sold in the commissary.

Moreover, without access to hot or warm water, he can't rinse soap from his hands and body when he washes.

Cold water doesn't come off.

No, it doesn't.

It stays right on your hands.

Freezes solid on there.

It's like oil.

It's exactly right.

When you warm it up, it makes it cool.

Then it goes.

But when it's cold, it's stuck.

He also alleges that ADSEG inmates are allowed to shower for only 10 minutes every three days.

There's no place to hang towels and clothes or to put shampoo except on the dirty, wet floor.

He complains the shower gate cannot be blocked by prisoners, so showering inmates may be exposed to female officers.

He's Randy Woodfield.

Nurses and other prison employees walking past the area.

He complains that an inmate must wear their clothes while showering for privacy, and their clothes cannot be dried.

What?

There's also no place to hang wet clothes, towels, wash rags in the cell, causing the smell of mildew from wet fabrics in the prison.

Oh, because they'll see my dick, so I have to have clothes.

Cover up.

I don't want, God forbid, somebody sees me.

So

they're also in ADSEG not permitted to order laundry bags or detergent from commissary, so they're unable to do laundry unless they have a laundry bag from Genpop.

These laundry bags usually tear and need to be sewn often, but ADSEG inmates are not allowed to have sewing kits.

Further, because there's no hot water or wash bucket in Adseg, prisoners cannot wash their clothing in their cells.

And he says that he suffered from rashes, athlete's foot, and jock itch.

Oh, no.

You poor guy.

Not jock itch.

Yeah, locker room problems.

Flexible mirrors are not permitted in Adseg, so he alleges that he's cut himself badly while shaving.

Oh.

And irritated eyes from debris, lashes, and bugs being in his eyes without ever being able to remove them.

Ever.

Bugs go in his eyes, and if he can't see in a mirror, he he can't get anything out there's so many in there are you out of your mind i can't shave without a mirror so in the old west everybody just had in their eyes they never just they just went on their horse and going i'm blind bleeding to death take me where i needed to be yeah

wow this is the bloodbath that is crazy uh he also says that beard trimmers are not permitted and alleges that inmates must use disposable razors once every five days in the shower without a mirror within the allotted 10 minutes per shower get to work that's that's like military shit there, yeah.

The razors are allegedly made for one-time use, but are changed out only once a month.

So that's why you're getting cut, mirror or not.

The razors have become clogged with hair and rust and are stored in a small cabinet that's never cleaned.

Rust.

He further alleges the razors are placed in their designated slots by officers who do not wear gloves and handle prisoners' dirty underwear.

So you're getting that guy shit on my razor.

I would wear gloves if I was handling prisoners' razors.

I can't believe they're not wearing for myself.

He also alleges that he's had facial and neck rashes from the use of these razors, but not using razors also causes rashes from beard growth because he cannot wash his face with warm water between showers.

In addition, he alleges disparate treatment because, quote, non-European prisoners can order creams that remove facial and head hair, but those creams cause burns and irritation when used by Europeans.

Is that right?

Yes,

the Marines had a military has policy for, I think they just got rid of it like a month ago, but for since this Nixon put it in in the 70s

that like black troops at the time, they had to shave and have to keep real shaved.

A good part of the black population has a condition.

that literally their whole entire neck will blow up with infection and fucking ingrown hairs.

It just doesn't work.

So they were letting Marines have certain length beards for a long time just to keep from having to shave constantly and irritating irritating their shit.

So, this guy's saying they're allowed these creams, but I can't use these creams because they don't work for me.

It's just nair, right?

I don't know what

you're talking about.

Mix your own cream.

I don't know what to tell you.

It's not available commercially.

Whose fault is that?

I don't know, man.

You don't kill people.

Maybe you don't kill your fucking girlfriend for no reason, your pregnant girlfriend, you scumbag.

Prisoners in Adseg are permitted one haircut per month, but are not allowed to shower after the haircut.

He says that his bedding gets contaminated with hairs from being unable to shower after a haircut, causing irritations,

rashes, raw spots from scratching, discomfort and lack of sleep.

He's getting

a mitchie.

From hair trimmings.

From hair, it gets all over him.

Oh my gosh.

He next complains that during strip searches, he has to remove his dirty socks and underwear, place his hands in his buttocks to spread them,

then without being able to wash his hands with hot water, trace his fingers along the inside of his mouth and gum line.

Do that person.

I don't know.

He alleges that lunch is often served immediately after he returns from his cell to his cell from Morning Yard when a strip search is performed and he's unable to wash his hands with hot water before eating.

I just opened my ass.

I can't eat that.

I got it shit all over me.

He also alleges that he's not allowed to bring a pillow into ADSEG and that special pillows in ADSEG are rare.

Consequently, he suffers from neck, back, and shoulder pain from a lack of pillow and has difficulty sleeping.

And I got a rash.

You're in prison, not Dev Waldorf.

What do you want?

I mean, prisons should be livable but you're you're talking about prison inconveniences if he was saying the guards come in and rape me with their batons i'd go that's a little much but this is you got some shaving issues this is what why you don't want to go to prison because it's uncomfortable it sucks uh so he also says that lack of a pillow hinders his ability to read write and exercise as well i need a pillow He also says the bunks have a metal lip to keep the mattresses in place, and this metal lip causes him pain and severe cramps when he sits on his bunk for more than a few seconds.

Right.

It probably cuts off circulation.

Yeah.

Just sit a different way.

As a result, he says there's no place in his cell to sit and write legal documents or letters to loved ones.

He allegedly experiences welts and bruises from sitting on his bunk, which inhibits his free speech and court access.

Wow.

He further complains he cannot order spoons, forks, bowls, or cups in AdSeg, forcing him to eat with his hands, which he cannot wash with warm water after they've been in his ass.

I just checked my ass, you guys.

I gotta eat it.

I gotta eat this.

He also alleges that he's only allowed to order two toothbrushes

per month, and these toothbrushes are meant for a single use.

The toothbrushes are allegedly delivered damaged from having other items stacked on top of them.

The brushes become splayed and hurt plaintiff's gums when brushing.

He says he suffered permanent bumps and scars on his mouth.

He also alleges he can't order a watch from the commissary while he's in AdSag because he's limited to $15 in purchases per month.

Without a watch, he complains that he cannot perform rituals at specific times for his religion.

No, what's his religion?

Oh, we'll get into it.

Don't worry about that.

He also contends he has a constitutional right to know what time it is.

I've never heard that.

Listen, the Constitution's there.

We can all read it.

There's 20-something amendments.

Do any of them say your right to know what time it is?

I've never heard of that before.

That is definitely a new one in this show.

And we've done a lot.

This is 619.

The right to punctual arrival.

Never heard of this one before.

He also says that he's not permitted to buy nail clippers and must use clippers provided during showers.

He complains the clippers are damaged and dirty, and it's difficult to use them in the shower.

Right.

It's slippery.

He also says he's reluctant to use them and gets ingrown nails.

He also

complains about the price of commissary items.

Things are going up, man.

In this economy?

He alleges that he's allowed $15 a month for

commissary minus $10 for 10% for for fines, leaving him with $1,350 to spend for certain items he deems essential.

The prison provides monthly bags of pen and paper, deodorant, and toothpaste, but he alleges that he needs sensodyne toothpaste.

Yeah, sensitive teeth.

Which costs $7.23.

He also has dandruff and needs head and shoulder shampoo, which costs...

He shouldn't kill people if he's a single person.

I need name-brand shit, you guys.

I have similar stuff.

That's why I don't kill anybody.

There's a reason.

I like my comforts.

I'd like to know what time it is.

Which costs $7.69 and Neutrogena soap.

What?

He wants to?

Fuck it.

He needs, yeah, back at all those Kerry Russell commercials back then really turned him on to it.

He was like, listen, I got to get this.

I need that liquid gold.

Oh, her fair skin is gorgeous.

It's just beautiful.

Which costs just over $9 for three bars.

Thus, he can only order one of these items per month.

A bath towel is $5.

Shower shoes are $2.57.

And shaving cream is $4.58 per month.

Dry skin lotion, lip balm, conditioner, cotton swabs, toothbrushes, washcloths are not included in the essential items package provided by the prison.

He says it would take several months to stock up on these items, not to mention writing paper, security pens, envelopes, and postage stamps.

Therefore, he's forced to choose between essential toiletries and writing to loved ones.

It's not fair.

Additionally, he alleges there's no protection from excessive weather in AdSeg.

They said cool-off showers and ice during heat waves were eliminated in 2011 for no apparent reason.

The heat doesn't work.

Broken windows and open exhaust fans allow cold air, rain, and snow to come inside the building.

In the yard, there's no protection from the sun, and he alleges that he's not permitted to order sunblock or shade himself with a hat.

I have a constitutional right to the barometer.

To know what time it is,

I want to know the barometer.

I want to know the humidity level forecast,

and I'd like a hat.

I've got a constitutional right to the seven-day forecast.

Wow.

Actually, it's the 10-day I have a right to it.

The Supreme Court has updated that.

He also alleges he can't wear rain gear if it's raining.

He has no means to dry his sneakers and clothes.

And he also said there's an infestation of mice, birds, and insects that have caused him to suffer allergies, asthma, bug bites, and

sleeplessness.

Also, the smell of mouse urine and feces, which is never cleaned.

The mice also crawl up the bunks.

It's either that or these air clippings.

One of the two.

He's so itchy.

He next alleges the toilet in his cell is impossible to clean and had urine and feces all over it from prior inmates when he was moved to the cell.

He says that he would not use the toilet until he could, he would only use the toilet when he could no longer hold his urine.

To use that toilet, he has to sit on a dirty steel shelf with his penis rubbing against the metal lip that causes cuts and scrapes on his genitals.

How jagged is this?

I don't think it's that jagged.

I think he's out of his mind.

He also alleges it's impossible to urinate in the toilet without getting urine all over the metal around the hole because the wall above the toilet shelf prevents him from leaning directly over the hole so the metal constantly smell like years and years of built-up urine from numbers of prisoners and the sink is used as a urinal so it smells.

The water flushes only on one side so fecal matter is smeared on the back of the toilet where it's never fully clean and there's a constant stench of rotting fecal matter and stale urine.

That's just what I assume jail smelled like.

He says the sheets and blankets are torn and fail to cover his entire bunk.

He receives less food than Gen Pop.

Soup, muffins, and donuts aren't served in Adsec.

I want my donuts.

I want my soup.

What the fuck is going on?

He also said the metal, rugged,

jagged, rusty things.

I'm trying to find.

Okay.

He said the water in the showers is so hot that it burns.

Oh, no, it's too hot.

Now it's too hot.

He's like, okay, Goldilocks, what do you want here?

This one's just right.

What the fuck?

On one occasion, he burned his hand from contact with a copper pipe leading to the shower head.

Why are you touching the pipe?

Stop doing that.

He alleges that he had a permanent scar where no hair grows from this burn.

He complained also

regarding the water temperature and was told it was his fault due to his many grievances filed.

He said they told him, wouldn't be so hot if he wouldn't keep complaining.

Stop bitching.

He also complains the water pressure in his cell fluctuates from gushes to trickles, and his water never turns off, so there's rust, mold, and mildew on the walls, floors, and bed, and the air and ventilation in his unit do not work properly, so it becomes too hot and difficult to breathe and sleep.

He says there's no room in his cell to exercise.

The cell is four and a half feet wide, with the bunk taking up half the space on one side and a shelf on the opposite wall taking another foot of space.

He alleges that in January 2013, he tried to do push-ups in his cell and banged his head on the shelf, knocking himself unconscious and causing a cut in his head.

That is a vigorously were you

growing up on that one.

That's an aggressive one.

That's an aggressive fucking push-up.

Shit.

So he got half half a push-up in.

He says that he has a permanent scar in his head and a disfigured finger.

His body has reacted to over a year and a half of not being able to move around safely.

Now he experiences pain from trying to move around or stand and spend up to 72 hours in one position.

Then there's a whole complaint,

a urine sample thing.

He came up with a dirty piss test.

He had THC in his system, so he was smoking weed in there.

And

he said that there was not enough piss for them to...

It's a whole big story, but he had to wait two hours and wasn't allowed to pee for another two hours.

That's the problem here.

He also complains about his diet.

Oh.

He says that he is lactose intolerant and does not consume meat or any animal-derived foods due to his belief as a, quote, organic Odeon.

What is that?

Well, Odeon we know about.

That is.

That's white prison religion.

That's white supremacist prison and bullshit.

Really?

That's what that is.

Yeah, those those are the only people that are into that.

So he's a vegan of that.

A vegan lunatic.

He says that the prison has approved him for a vegetarian diet, but not a vegan diet.

He complains that the vegetarian trays contain fewer nutrients and calories than the regular diet, and the vegetarian diet contains a lot of milk and cheese, which he cannot consume due to his lack of diet.

What do you want?

In the wrong oil.

He also suffers a nut allergy.

He complains that the quality of the food being served is inferior.

Salads taste like pesticides.

Fruits are often old, dried out, or rotten.

Vegetables are cooked so much that they lose any nutritional value.

And he says he complains that he receives less protein, nutrients, and calories than other prisoners not on a restricted diet.

He also complains that his dietary restrictions and religious beliefs are disregarded by the prison.

He further alleges that he's being deprived of drinking water.

The water in his sink is discolored and has a bad odor, so he cannot drink it.

Well, it's piss.

It's piss water.

You pissed in there.

You said it's a urinal you use it for.

He can only order six bottles of water at one time, he said too.

He next complains that meal runners handle food trays without wearing gloves or hair nets.

Those are prisoner trustees.

The meal runners are also not checked for medical clearance like other food workers or cooks, and they're not trained to wash their hands.

Yeah, you want like a restaurant quality person that's going to be not in prison, I would assume.

And he refers to refrains from eating his meals when they're served by the runners.

He also complains that there is a disparity in access to religious foods because there are kosher and halal foods available on commissary and through food packages for Jewish and Muslim prisoners, but

there are no 100% whole organic foods available for me.

Okay.

He also says there's a great disparity in the food, in the quality of the food offered in the officer's dining room to which they serve the prisoners.

Free people get to eat better than us?

Weird.

Super weird.

People that are here for work?

Yeah, it's it's probably part of their pay package.

I don't think they get paid very well.

They go home to wherever the fuck they want, man.

He said it's the same food service used for both, but their food's better.

Yeah.

He next alleges that the prisoners are often sanctioned with loss of recreation privileges for disciplinary actions.

And he said that's not fair.

He also says because he's lactose intolerant, the only way he can maintain healthy levels of vitamin D is through exposure to sunlight and consumption of mushrooms.

He wants mushrooms.

No.

Okay.

He needs a specific mushroom.

You're not getting fucking mushrooms.

He needs vitamin D shrooms.

No.

You're not getting any morels in here.

Fuck off.

He says that consumption of mushrooms.

However, his

nice portobello makes me eats like a steak.

You know what I mean?

His cells do not provide open windows for fresh air and sunlight, and he must remain charge-free for one year in order to one year to order mushrooms.

He also complains that most inmates have, quote, darker skin and can tolerate the sunlight in the yard.

Oh, my God.

But I have fair and sensitive skin, which deprives him of equal recreation, fresh air, sunlight, and vitamin D.

The poor me shit.

That's wild.

That's wild.

He also says that an ad seg, the yard there has urine and feces in the corner of everywhere because the inmates relieve themselves outside when they can't get to the bathroom.

Really?

The stench causes him to decline yard recreation, and he said yard recreation could occur more frequently than once every five days if the amount of yard time is reduced from two and a half hours to one hour each each time and we still get five hours so he's an organic odian he also alleges he's often forced to choose between attending yard or religious services because odinist services are typically scheduled during yard times other times he's scheduled to work or has medical passes during his yard time yard time often falls on saturdays which is the only day that he can clean his cell so he's forced to choose between yard time and having access to cleaning supplies

he also said that the religious services for odinists were scheduled during lunch and yard times, and that he was forced to choose between attending his religious services or going to lunch in the yard.

They said the Odinist services, which are scheduled on Tuesdays, were canceled many times and not rescheduled because the person who oversees the Odinist services will take Tuesdays off when a holiday falls on Monday.

He's really into it, guys.

He also requested...

But not Morden Memorial Day.

Yeah, yeah.

He also repeatedly requested head chaplain Imam Saluki to change the service for the Odeon ritual from Tuesday to Wednesday accordingly, but has been told to either suck it up and stop thinking the prison revolves around his white religion or to become a Muslim and stop being a non-believer.

It's all crazy.

What are you doing?

He also alleges that he also requested equal access to the grass area where other religious services are held outdoors, but the Odinist services

occur on the concrete.

Before the Yule holiday in 2012, quote just says Yule holiday, when Plana first arrived in Adseg, he requested a Yule tray for his high feast and the two weekly two boxes of juice given to Odinists, but his request was denied.

Okay.

He further alleges all this Odinist shit.

He says that he is not allowed to have certain items utilized in Odinist rituals.

Like what?

A troth ring, Thor's hammer.

You're in prison.

You can't have a hammer.

Runes.

Runes.

Yeah, little rocks.

Herbs, spices, rune cloth, other altar cloth, fresh tree twigs, mushrooms, sea salt, candles, weirds,

W-Y-R-D-S's web materials,

and a plan to plant the three-wing garden.

He says that, wow.

I don't even know what to do here.

This is fucking ridiculous.

He wants so much shit.

He wants everything.

So he also says he alleges that it's against his sincerely held beliefs to submit to a higher power.

So he's rejected.

Yeah, Jesus.

No, he's rejected the rehab stuff, AA and shit that goes on in there.

And they said

he's been denied contact visitation unless he attends a 12-speed step program that involves submitting to a higher power.

So he says they're not letting him exercise his religion.

He also claims he's a white man surrounded by non-whites who commonly express hatred toward whites.

He's being forced to live in a cell with hate-filled non-whites.

Unquote, unquote.

Oh, boy.

Also, he complains that the prisoner money was used to rent daily movies or set up a Netflix account, but the new movies are rarely shown.

He said less than 15% of movies were played for inmates, and he alleges that less than 30 educational videos were shown from July 2011, June 2011 to July 2013.

Tired of Mrs.

Doubtfire.

My Netflix account.

I'm not getting it.

He's literally, he's complaining about fucking Netflix in prison.

He also said that he has a wart or pox infestation all over his body, dizziness, lightheadedness, temporary blindness in one eye, chest pains, migraines, muscle spasms, allergies, rashes, athletes, foot bed sores, irritating and bleeding gums, scarred and blistering areas in the mouth, scratchy and oily eyes, arthritic cramps in hand and right foot, excessive weight gain and loss, hunger pangs, back pain.

potential concussion, disformed finger that keeps getting stuck open, spasm scrapes from the toilet on his penis, infected burn and cut, severe depression, insect bites, ingrown toenails, ingrown hairs, indigestion, heartburn, acid reflux, asthma, sunburn, arthritic pain, muscle spasms, and other issues.

He's getting old.

The judge tells him,

fuck off, idiot.

Stop killing people.

You're aging.

I'm sorry.

Then he files 114-page.

Oh, my God.

We don't have time for this.

No, we don't.

Claiming that on behalf of other prisoners practicing organic asatru

and for former prisoners

practicing asatru, he says, which is a

satru, a modern pagan religion that reconstructs and reimagines ancient polytheism of northern Europe.

Just multi-god shit.

Yeah, yeah,

by the way, Wayne is out and free.

Stop it.

Oh, he's free.

Be careful, everyone who lives in Newton.

Where?

Newton, New Jersey.

Really?

I'm not going to give his address out because that's.

Oh, you know where it is, but it has to.

I got it.

It's Newton, New Jersey.

Yeah, it's

so be careful.

Wayne, he's 73 years old, and

he's thought of as a tier two moderate risk.

I don't know about that.

It seems moderate?

It seems moderate.

So there you go, everybody.

There is Garfield, New Jersey.

All that shit's denied.

They tell him to fuck off and keep on keeping on.

So Kevin's in jail.

Everything there.

Hope you enjoyed it.

He's so sensitive.

He's so sensitive.

Every skin is very sensitive.

For a murderer, he's a sensitive little bitch.

He's a sensitive little guy.

He really likes the sensitive skin laundry detergent.

He's the no-tears, Johnson Johnson.

Christ.

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Thank you for doing that, everybody.

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This week for crime and sports, you're going to get more amusement parts.

Yeah.

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We need to do that again.

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Then for small-town murder, it is the prisoner dating game, everybody.

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And you get all three shows ad goddamn free.

We can't give you any more than that.

So we to thank, we've, you're, you'd subscribe.

That thanks us.

And now we would like to thank you, Jimmy.

Hit me with the names of the best fucking people in the world.

Hit me with them right now.

This executive producers are Allison Deutsch.

Thank you so much, Allison.

So thoughtful.

You're an angel.

Alexander Kozik's mom, and happy birthday.

Happy birthday.

Gary Howard.

Roast Beefy Weafy has a birthday.

Happy birthday.

Cat Myowmers said it.

Oh, well, Kitty Meowers.

Oh, of course.

We all get our news from Catface Myowmers.

And that's how I got this news.

Drinking Life, Michael Caspar.

Casper, perhaps.

Tamala?

It's got to be Tamala.

Tamala?

Tamala Vaughan?

Is it Tamala?

What is it?

Tamala?

Tamala?

Who knows?

Dr.

Dre.

Tamala Law.

Dr.

Dre.

Dr.

Dre.

It's a gal.

Oh, okay.

Andrew, I think, is her name.

Dr.

Drew.

She's also a doctor.

Dr.

Drew.

Doctor Hot Beats.

Thank you all so much.

You're amazing.

Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Janice Hill.

Happy Hour checking in in South Haven, Mississippi.

That's as South Haven as it gets.

Jesus.

That is.

Good Christ.

Not a haven.

Hope you get out.

Bo Meese, Shane Dennis, Heather Martin, Pam Blackledge, Kay with no last name, Ken Taylor, Tina Renner, Emily Montgomery, and Amy Strawn, Kat MC, Stephanie Wilke, Mike Conner, Jessica Asharte, Asharte, Echarte, Colin Jocks, oh, it's Jacques.

What am I doing?

Sarah Yauck, Sophie

Erstrad, Erstad, Jeremy Sanderson, Chelsea Sobulski, Sam J, Lisa Leslie, not her, James.

Jason Siegel, probably not him either.

K and N, Sarah Ringer.

What is it?

Why not?

Why can't it be, Jimmy?

I'd love to be self-esteem.

Self-esteem is on the floor.

It was an email address that was

as if that person.

Well, that person's probably been named James, Jason Siegel his whole life, but whatever.

Michael Blexrud.

B.

Lexrood, I think.

T.

Stubbs, Lisa Hobbs, Sarah Ringer.

I said that.

Casey.

C-A-C-C-A-Y-C-E.

That's Casey, right?

Or is it Case?

I don't know.

They're to judge.

Their parents.

CJ Sanderson, Carl Wilkins, Kim with no last name.

Rebecca Sotello, Saul, Sotello, Sotello, Shannon Tilly,

Colleen Pickinick, Pikinick, Ryan with no last name, Becks with no last name, Talon Gibson, Andrea Talbot, Andrew Albert, Albert Perez, Michelle Fournier, Hannah Doyle, Morgue Carleon, Carleon, Deanna Duncan, Dina Duncan, Halen, Halen Roberts, Gary McMullen, Melissa Stroud, Cucks of America, whatever the fuck, Into with no last name, Katie Schurtzinger, Josh with no last name, William Nassaman, Betty with no last name, Serena Stockdale, Gigi with no last name, Sigourney Kweefer, I've missed her, I've missed her so much.

Calvin Gilbert, what a terrific dumb name.

BJ Roper, Beach Norton,

Bree Smood, Sarah with no last name, Dorico Boone, Jeff Bruner, Tammy Williams, Jordan with no last name, Krista Kisner, Sarah DeBagis, Wild Girl, Melissa May, Amy Merrill, Kristen Denaige, Mimi Mollins, Brooke with no last name, Shannon Lipp, Tamron Williams, Kevin Allen, Bryan with no last name, Karen Brooks, Pre-Bowl, Tracy with no last name, Ben with no last name, Nikki G, Justin Everts, Barbara Moore, Allison Temple, Ivy Lewis, Alex Alexis Martin, Laura, Kieft, Kleft, it's Kieft, I think.

Keifed, Elena Eaton, Lucas Richards, Mackenzie Sullivan.

Mackenzie.

Hannah Hicks.

Bebo.

Babo Mora.

Jessica Cummins.

Chase Schwartzman.

Stevie with no last name.

Not that one.

Steve.

He needs $100 cash.

Stella Kalaris.

Jeff Oswald.

Patty with no last name.

Macy Cisneros.

Angie Johnson.

Toliver Machin.

Matchin.

Pedicure Goddess.

Meredith Moore.

Kristen Lieber.

Alicia Bontemps.

Jackie Budrovich,

Timothy, Timothy Mackey, Jackie Rowald, Anthony with no last name, Joseph Aguilar, Jacob Farron, Erica Miles, Milesner, Jesus, Jana Cashin, Jarrett Byers, Honey Bees, Shelby with no last name, Julie Makusa, Amanda Rickson, Verna

Garten, Garten, Carol Robinson, Danielle Kincaid, Trent Kruger, James Sleeper, Max Braun, AI Child.

I don't hate, I hate that more than anything.

Larry with no last name.

Jamie Lee.

Probably not the one.

Danielle Savioli.

What is it?

I fucking know.

Is that Steve McCurtis?

No, Jamie Lee.

Or the writer for

the fucking soccer show on Apple.

That one.

The soccer show on Apple?

Wow.

Ted Lasso.

Oh, there you go.

That was like soccer show on Apple.

Danielle Savioli, Tricia Turner, Nikki Solad, Soloich, Soloage, Soloage, Timo

St.

Clair, Brayden Dyer, Gina O, Julia Tennyson, Todd Binkley, Jaron with no last name, Melissa Caballero, Glitter Bird, Scott C., Brent Bizick,

F and Ninja, Ashley with no last name, S and L, the letters.

Sarah Robinson, C and C, the letters.

Kim Bretchen, Bill Liss, Travis Olds, Dean Poole, Megan D.

Tarot with no last name.

Ashton Jones, Gray Jack72, Brendan Parra, KT, the letters, Andrew Larson, Nicole Kelleher, Taddeus, Thaddeus, Camp, Carol Hynek,

Renee Swearengen, is that right?

Dave P, I hope.

Related any way possible.

Dave P,

Sharon Becker, Lauren Handrahan, Andrew Stifle, Stifel, Savannah Rogers, Carl Morell, C.D.

Ignis.

Oh, what?

Igginsley.

Igensley.

Allison Guerra.

Karen Perry.

She got two patrons.

Thank you, Karen.

Liz.

One name a fucking slapshot reference.

What was that?

Slapshot reference there.

Hannah Han?

Yeah.

Hannah.

Liz, never mind.

Was that the lady that eats pussy?

That was the guy who

was called.

Yeah, yeah, sucks pussy.

She's a lesbian.

I know, I know.

Yeah, I know, I know.

Or no, he was the bastard guy they were all afraid of.

Oh, right, right.

Hannahhan.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Liz, our number one fan in San Diego, evidently.

Todd with no last name, Daryl Paxton, Karen Willis, Tricia Bassett, Brooke Hodgson, Jocelyn with no last name, Stephen Dixon, Laura Barker, Dina Werling, Nancy

Eklund, Selena with no last name, Chelsea Edwards, Otis Spunkmeyer, fantastic.

Layla with no last name, Dave Sandry, Denise Ellis, Jan with no last name, Holly with no last name, Logan with no last name, Jacob Schoen, Brittany Weston, Nini with no last name, someone with two young boys, give them back.

CC, Cynthia B.

Harvey Wellman Williams.

Jenny with no last name.

Breonna Barney.

Ashton Brown.

Steve Weaver.

Janelle Debb.

Jason Schultz.

Robbie Marcus.

Elizabeth P.

Molly Heitart.

Brooks Friedlander.

Nope, Friedland.

Emily Webb.

Andy Thomas.

Alyssa with no last name.

Paul Nicks.

Iomata.

Lindsay Pojar.

Audrey Schwartz.

Off-road Emo.

Honey Coven.

Andrew Hurley.

Jordan S.

P.

Doreen Beloit.

Beloit.

Haley Bright.

Tristan Mastro, T.

Cash, Stephen, Stephanie, Stephanie Morgan, Alex Weber, Clayton Reeds, Planet Tyler, Natalie Young, Jerome Hulaman, Hulam, Mike in Milan, is that right?

Josh Hayes, Kayla Allen, Bree Routley, routely probably, Paul Taylor, Jill Fleming, Caitlin Baton, Jason O'Connor, Natalie with no last name, Jazz C, Molly with no last name, Jessica Broll, Michelle Harris, Kim, no, Kid Gallahad.

Oh, because there was Lord.

Was it?

Who was Galahad?

Was it Lord?

King?

Lord Knight King.

Galahad.

What was Sir Galahad?

Sir.

Hey, Gah.

All right, moving forward.

I don't know where I am.

I don't know how I pulled that out nor where that reference is from.

Johnny Burciago, Burciaga, Amanda Brown, Jesus, Jesus Lopez.

I'm leaving it.

Bloomer Pudding, Jenny Coffer, Matthew Salette, Jackie Bjornstadt, Leslie Boatwright, Colleen Larson, KB with no last name, Crystal Hawes, Justin Miller, Herb Schurman,

Daphne, Daphne Bishop.

Was that the guy's name that was the Long Island killer?

Sure, Man?

Was that it?

Sureman?

Oh, Huerman.

Huerman.

Huerman.

Rex Hurman.

He's got an S and a C in front of that.

Good for you.

Daphne Bishop, Annabelle Netter, Thomas Michael, Michelle Chevalier,

Charles Locke with no lot.

That is his last name.

Dana Garavando, Laura Ann,

Jacob Hooper, Brittany Hill, Diane Taylor, Rodney Elwood, and Sharon Schrader, and obviously all of our patrons.

You guys are the best.

Thank you.

Thank you, everybody, so much.

Unbelievable.

You unbelievably awesome bastards.

We love you.

We appreciate everything you do for us.

Keep coming back and seeing us time after time.

You want to follow us and find us?

Head over to shutupandgivemeurder.com.

Drop down menu.

Take you anywhere you want to go.

Keep coming back and seeing us.

And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

Bye.

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