The Orange Sock Murders - Breckenridge, Colorado

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Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express.

Yay, Cho, Cho.

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy.

Yay indeed.

My name is James Petra Gallo.

I'm here with my co-host.

I'm Jimmy Wisman.

Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another absolutely wild, and this is crazy, wild edition of Small Town Murder Express, all aboard the murder train pulling away from the station.

We got a lot of wild today.

It is

a case that we normally don't, I won't even get into it.

I'll just say the case.

We'll just state it when it's time.

First of all, though, head over to shutupandgivemeurder.com.

Get your tickets for live shows.

There's a few left in San Diego we just released.

And there's also Seattle, Philly, and D.C.

get your tickets now because they're going fast.

And I mean, D.C.

and Philly are in December and they're close to sold out.

So get in there, get your tickets right now.

Thank you so much for doing that.

Shut up and give me murder.com.

You also definitely want to listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports, which, by the way, is we are doing a long series on Randall Woodfield, the I-5 killer.

No sports, all murder.

So check that out.

If you like small-town murder, you'll love that.

And also your stupid opinions, where we make fun of people who think their opinions matter about things, which is very fun to do.

We'll do that.

Oh, it's a huge party, but get yourself Patreon, everybody.

Trust us on this.

Patreon.com/slash crime in sports, just like the name of that other show you should be listening to.

And what you're going to get there, anybody, $5 a month or above, you're going to get, first of all, a huge catalog of back episodes, over 300 back episodes you're going to get immediately upon subscription of bonus stuff you've never heard before.

And you're going to get new ones every other week.

One crime and sports, one small-time murder.

You get it all.

This week for Crime and Sports, we're going to do some updates.

BJ Penn has been doing some wild stuff lately.

We're going to talk about him, Gervanta Davis also, who's been off the fucking charts lately, too.

And then for Small Town Murder, we are going to talk about this Amy Bradley case

missing off the cruise ship, and they thought they didn't know if she drowned, but then there's evidence that she's actually alive still 20, you know, seven years later.

It's absolutely crazy, and I've been looking into it so much because it's just so interesting.

So, we'll check all that out.

Piggybacks on the poop cruise.

Okay.

If you say poop cruise, what could go worse?

This, so well, this is it.

This is worse.

So, that's patreon.com/slash/crimeinsports.

And you get a shout-out at the end of this show as well.

That said, I think it's time to sit back, everybody.

What do you say?

Let's all clear the lungs here and let's all shout:

Shut up,

give me murder.

Let's do this, everybody.

Okay.

Let's go on a trip, shall we?

We're going to someplace we both like, you really like.

Sure.

Going to Colorado this week.

It's a lovely place.

We're going to Breckenridge, Colorado.

Hell yeah.

Yeah, nice place, kind of a ski town.

Yeah.

Yeah.

North Central Colorado.

About an hour and a half to Denver.

Yeah.

Nestled in those Rockies.

Two hours to Longmont, Colorado, which was our last Colorado episode, Electronic Murder Breadcrumbs, which was very interesting.

I remember that was a really interesting one.

This is in Summit County,

aptly named, a lot of summits there.

Area code 970, population here, 5,086.

And I assume that also depends on the season because in the winter, there's a shitload more people here.

Skating.

That's probably in August.

Yeah, I think that's your permanent residency that lives here.

Median household income here, pretty high.

It's usually about $69,000 in the rest of the country.

Here it is $118,077.

That's what you get with

a lot of hot cocoa.

Costs a couple of bucks to live up in those mountains.

Median home cost here, buckle up here.

Holy shit.

$1,066,800.

That's median home cost.

Yeah.

Everything from O-Ray to Breckenridge to Aspen, all that shit is banana.

And it's been like that for 50 years, literally.

It's gotten way worse.

Hunter Thompson, it was there when it was first starting, and before it started, he moved up there.

And I remember him writing about it tons, about the, he'd call it the rape of Aspen always, like them selling off land for condos and breaking up estates and all that kind of thing.

The motto here is the perfect mountain town.

That's what they say.

I mean, it sounds like it.

Founded in 1859, gold was discovered there.

And

in the 1800s, anywhere gold is discovered, that's going to be a place pretty soon.

1887, a 13 and a half-pound gold nugget was discovered here.

13 and a half pounds.

That's a big one.

One nugget.

So that's a chunk.

That's a bar, right?

Absolutely.

1898, Pug Ryan.

Now, that's a great criminal name.

He's got a gang.

Pug Ryan gang sounds awesome.

Pug Ryan and his gang held up Breckinridge's Denver Hotel, which was a big, that was their big, fancy hotel.

That was a big deal.

And that same year,

1898, it snowed in Breckinridge for 79 straight days.

God damn it.

At some point in every day, and for 79 days, it snowed.

79 days.

Holy shit.

How many shoveling heart attacks there?

Two months and some change.

Fuck.

It forced the townspeople to build snow tunnels to get around town.

They just said, well, fuck it.

We live under the snow now.

And they just started, I got to go to the bank.

I got to go to the bank.

I mean, I'm going to dig my way there.

It's all I can do.

I need an apple.

And then 1963, the first, oh, God, how do you say this now?

Uller Dag Festival celebrated in Breckenridge.

Now it's known as Uller Fest or Uller Fest.

Well, Uller, I think.

We'll talk about that.

Don't worry.

Reviews of this town, five stars.

Breckenridge is a town in the Rocky Mountains that offers an array of outdoor activities.

Activities include skiing, snowboarding, mountain biking, fishing, and hiking.

Everyone you meet is friendly.

Yeah.

They're all rich.

Of course, they're friendly.

They got nothing to be mad about.

How are you doing, fellow well-off person with less worries than most?

How are you today?

Two stars here.

I enjoyed the natural environment and the ability to participate in fun activities like snowboarding and hiking.

This review is off the charts, by the way.

It's crazy.

This is like something we do for your stupid opinions.

It was nice to grow up in a mountain, however.

I think you mean on a mountain.

If you grew up in a mountain, you're a mole person, again, like the other people.

You're a yeti.

That's strange.

The community, let's say, oh, yeah, the town.

However, I found people, I found the people to be derivative.

What does that word mean?

It's something you would say about music or like

something like an art piece that's, you know,

just kind of piggybacking on something else.

Not a town.

Not human beings.

How are human beings derivative?

Every human being is derivative of every other human being.

I found them to be derivative of their parents.

It's really weird.

They even look like them.

There is a large demographic of first-time locals who look for nothing more than to enjoy legal marijuana and be ski bums.

Yeah, that sounds terrific.

Of course, that sounds awesome.

I would love to live that life.

How much more time do we have doing this show?

That sounds great.

I'm 44 years old.

I don't know if I got enough time to do that.

We're doing that.

God damn.

Somebody got to do that.

It's also difficult to fit in and be accepted if you're not into competitive sports and sports culture.

As an artist, the people are off-putting and ignore my accomplishments.

They ignore my accomplishments.

Who the fuck are you?

I got a painting in New York magazine.

Wow.

Ignore my accomplishments.

You derivative fucks.

Compared to athletes who are revered and given everything under the sun.

The derivative thing, that's what art people would say, but not of humans, of art pieces, you say that.

Things to do, it is the Uller Fest is what there is to do.

What they do here, they crown a king and queen of the Uller Fest.

There's a long story.

This is named after like some Norse snow god or some shit like that.

Okay.

That's what this whole thing is about.

It's about some snow celebration.

Two Breckenridge residents are chosen as the Uller King and Queen for their contributions to the community and their love of the snow.

Not only do you have to do like good things, you have to love the goddamn snow, too.

Yeah.

Snow is very important.

That's weird.

3.30 p.m., they're going to do the world's longest shot ski.

Oh, you know what that is?

That's where they take a ski

and put shots on it.

That's when Polish people do shots.

Yeah.

We're doing shot skis, everybody.

You put a bunch of shot glasses on a ski, and

people line up in front of the shot, and then you tip the ski, and everybody shoots at the same time.

Oh, well,

they're looking for 1,401 people to help break the current world record of 1,385 people currently held by Park City, Utah.

How big is that fucking ski?

I don't know.

Hopefully, we're talking about the same thing.

I'm not sure.

It's got to be.

Oh, then they have a parade also, and you know, that's it, that takes over Main Street.

So, basically, a king and queen and Schottsky.

That's what the festival is.

That said, let's talk about some murder.

Holy

shit, let's get into a weird story.

Okay,

January 6th, 1982.

Yeah.

Okay.

It is a, shockingly, a snowy night in Breckenridge.

Right.

Are we all surprised?

I mean, really below zero temperatures,

driving snow, a real cold January.

Real blizzard.

Yeah, none of this March bullshit where it's, you know, 31 and snowing.

This is none of this April 12th bullshit.

No.

Slush.

This is when it's windy and it hits your face and you go, ow, it hurts because it's like, it feels like you're getting sandblasted.

Right.

7:50 p.m., let's start out with on this evening.

Snowy, dark, windy, freezing.

Barbara Burns Oberholzer.

Her married name is Oberholzer.

Her maiden name is Burns.

She's born Christmas Day, 1952, making her 29 years old at this point, just celebrated.

No, she just celebrated.

Yeah, just turned 29.

She goes by Bobby Joe.

That's what everybody calls her.

Sure.

So Bobby Joe, somehow from Barbara Burns, you get Bobby Joe.

Well, it's certainly better than BJ.

That's not bad.

She's married to a man named Jeff Oberholzer, and they have a daughter as well.

Now, her and Jeff, they had dated for a few years, got married in 1977.

They lived in the Midwest and then moved to Breckenridge.

Wow, they do fantastic.

They're hippies.

Oh, because this is night when they got married, it was 1977.

They're super hippies.

They both describe themselves as hippies.

So they loved the outdoor and the nature, and they heard about all the granola crunching opportunities there is to have out there.

So

they go there.

They live in Alma, which is about a half hour south of Breckenridge.

At one point, he said,

this is Jeff said, yeah, just seemed like the place to be, you know, us hippies to go there.

Now, Bobby Joe's sister describes her as free-spirited,

saying she loved life, she was happy wherever she was.

A hippie.

Yeah.

Sounds easy going.

Jeff, in great hippie fashion, and following all the hippie tradition, opened an appliance repair business, like all hippies.

It's what most of them do.

They'll fix your fridge.

Being very responsible.

Yeah, they know how to like.

They know how to change out your Freon.

That's a hippie trait.

It's always a thing.

But he did it in sandals, James.

Well, that's the only difference, sandals and flannel.

Bobby Joe worked for a real estate company, which, again, nothing says hippie

morals like real estate.

Now, but they are super hippies.

I mean, you got to work and they have a daughter, so

you got to make a living.

And the weird thing is they're real kind of everybody's nice and everybody's a good person.

She hitchhikes all the time.

A lot of people in this town are still hitchhiking in 1982,

which, yeah, she would hitch a ride to work even.

I mean, that's like not even, that's somewhere you know you have to be.

So on this particular night of January the 6th, 1982, she had gotten a promotion that day at work.

So she went to the village pub with a bunch of co-workers because they wanted to buy her a drink for celebrate her promotion.

So she called her husband, Jeff, and said, I got a promotion.

You know, the girls want to take me out tonight.

We're going to the village pub.

And he said, yeah, have fun.

See you later.

So that's how it went.

So she's super happy, has a nice night.

When she's leaving, she tells the bartender she's going to get it.

She's going to hitchhike.

home.

So see you later.

I'm going to go hitch a ride home, which is about 16 miles away from the bar, which is a long way to to hitchhike.

That's a haul.

You might need two rides in that mess.

Yeah,

unless it's a straight shot down one road.

Unless someone's going.

No, unless they're going to that town and a night like this, they're not going to go out of their way for you.

Yeah.

So she's going to do that.

She's going to hitchhike.

Now she keeps Jeff had given her something for protection.

It's a big brass clip, like a round one that you would, you know.

Like a carabiner?

Yeah, kind of like that, but more round, not less kind of squared off.

So, gave her that.

It's got a large brass ring attached to it as well.

So, she can hold it on her fist.

You can put your hand through it.

Yeah, and you can use it as defense.

So, Jeff gave it to her specifically: use this when you're hitchhiking and make sure to have this in your pocket.

And if anybody tries to do anything, you fucking jack them up.

That's it.

So, Jeff described it as: it was a large brass clip, very heavy with a large brass ring attached to it, and it was made for self-defense.

So she leaves the bar, gets her hat and coat, and gloves, and backpack, and trudges out into the storm.

None of her co-workers would give her a ride home.

She celebrates her big night.

You know what?

She got a promotion today.

I'll give you a ride down the road.

But no, she goes out there.

So she goes out into the snow to hitchhike.

Now, earlier that evening, let's rewind in time to 4:45 p.m.

that day.

So still getting dark and still very snowy.

And there's another young lady named Annette K.

Schnee.

S-C-H-N-E-E Schnee.

Annette is born in January 16th, 1960.

So she's only 21 at this point, 10 days away from her 22nd birthday.

She's from Sioux City, Iowa, originally.

Midwest coming strong over here.

No kidding.

She has two brothers and two sisters.

She graduated from East High School in Sioux City in 1978, where she was a member of the the drill team.

She was doing all that stuff.

She graduated from Patricia Stevens College in Omaha, which she had, I think that's a modeling school, by the way.

Really?

Yeah, because she had gone to modeling school and she's only 21, so I don't know how she would have had time to go to college and modeling school.

But she's really pretty, this girl.

Like, extremely, like, stunningly nice.

Really beautiful, like, blonde and like that kind of model look of like, oh, Jesus, you look, you don't look like a real human.

Like, very pretty.

82 hot.

Yeah, feathered hair and all that shit.

So she moved there.

Now that night, she had just picked up some medication at a pharmacy.

Okay.

Okay.

She had a prescription she needed, and I don't know if that's birth control pills or, you know, antihistamines, or I have no idea what she got.

But she then needed to get home to change into her cocktail waitress outfit to start her shift at the flip side bar at 8 p.m.

So it's 4.45.

She's got to get home, change, and get to work.

Now, she usually

on the flip side.

Yep.

Or at the flip side here.

Now she had worked that day also.

She has two jobs.

She works at the

works as a maid at the holiday inn, which is where all models work usually.

Yeah, well, got to start somewhere.

You're modeling for one person at a time.

So she hitchhikes from her day job at the holiday inn and usually hitchhikes home to change her clothes and then hitchhikes back to the bar.

Wow.

Then hitchhikes over to the bar for her evening shift.

That's how she lives her life here.

Yeah.

So at this day, though, she's trying, she's right near the pharmacy trying to hitchhike to get home to change, to go back.

Okay.

Okay.

Now, so she goes out, leaves the pharmacy, goes out to hitchhike.

Now, midnight.

We'll fast forward to.

Bobby Joe still hasn't made it home by midnight.

No?

No, which is not okay at all.

Because it's been about...

It's not that far.

No, it's...

I guess if you didn't get a ride and you're walking through a snowstorm, you might not be home until 6 a.m.

I don't think it's possible to walk through the snowstorm and make it a lot better.

You might be right.

It's because it's literally below zero temperatures out there with wind and shit.

I don't think she could have made it.

I honestly don't.

So she hasn't made it home.

And,

you know.

Jeff's worried, he says at home.

But the thing is, too, people could have crashed.

There's so many things that could happen.

If she did get a ride, who's to say they made it?

Right.

They're driving through.

They're all the variables in that situation.

It's crazy.

They're driving through the snowy mountains.

Anything could happen.

So Jeff said he fell asleep watching TV and he woke up around midnight and noticed that Bobby Joe still wasn't home.

And he said he thought something was really wrong at that point.

He got worried

here.

He

ended up going to one of the homes of Bobby Joe's friends that he knew was out celebrating with her that night.

Yeah.

And he said, I woke him up and I asked him, you know, where Bobby was and if they knew, and she said she didn't know.

So, yeah, he said that at that point he went out looking for her, just driving the road between there and the bar to see if she was trudging along the side of the road or, you know, in a ditch with a snowpile or anything or see a car crashed out, just something here.

Couldn't find her.

So he then went to the Breckenridge police that night, and they told him that they can't do anything for 24 hours.

There's that old trope.

Well, plus, they're the cops, they're thinking, you don't know if she went home with some dude or some shit.

We're not going to go look around while she's sipping hot cocoa next to a fire, you know,

blowing some guy.

Because the storm's too bad or whatever.

It's just not going to be a thing.

You don't want us to walk in on that.

No, and she was an adult.

She's 29 years old.

So they said, you know, 24 hours.

So then he said, okay, and he returned home.

So that same night, the ladies went missing.

And this is a reason why I'm saying that anybody hitchhiking is in just as much danger from snow as they are from someone who picked them up.

This is the same evening now.

There's a guy, there's a United Airlines flight from Denver to Colorado Springs.

Yeah.

There's a guy named Harper.

Which is a stupid fucking flight.

That is 60 miles.

But through the snow and shit like that.

Oh, great point.

In Colorado, there's a a lot of that shit because, again, Hunter Thompson used to fly from Aspen to Denver.

Really?

Yes, because that's how it was.

It made it easy.

There was a flight from there to there.

Otherwise, it was a long drive through the snow in the winter.

Yeah.

So

it's a hard road.

Yeah, once you get west of Denver, it's fucked.

It gets those mountains.

Dicey.

It's really dicey.

It's real dicey.

So this is a United Airlines commercial flight, regular flight.

Wow.

There's a guy named Harold E.

Bray who's a passenger aboard the flight.

Yeah.

So literally flying over the shit in the middle of the night.

Looking out the window.

He's a sheriff from Jefferson County, this Bray.

Oh, it just happens to be his job.

He looks out.

He's looking out the window as they're flying over the darkness, which, again, who does that?

You know what I mean?

What do you see, man?

Put the fucking blinds down.

Nope.

He's out staring out the window.

Yeah, at night, there's nothing.

You're seeing a reflection of you.

There's nothing there.

It's any light in there.

You see anything you see, you.

That's it.

But he sees

down down below somehow, he sees flashing lights down there.

Okay, that are like flashing at the plane.

Just flashing.

They're pointed up and flashing.

Lights from the middle of the darkness, the middle of the mountains somewhere.

And he recognizes it's a Morse code SOS signal that's flashing in the light.

Not only does he know how to decipher SOS, he's looking out the window.

He knows how to do it.

Yeah.

If it's some just dude who didn't know shit, they'd be like, no, something's going on down there and keep flying.

They wouldn't even have thought about it.

But this guy goes, goes, holy shit, that's an SOS figure, gets up, goes and tells the flight crew, hey, I'm a sheriff.

There's an SOS signal going on there.

Call in, have the pilots call in down there and see what's going on.

So the crew radios, the FAA, they dispatch two planes to find the exact location, two small planes they send out into the snowstorm to find out exactly where it is.

So they don't send the local fire department out

all over the place.

So within 15 minutes, the local fire department's on the scene.

Wow.

They're They're responding and going out there.

So one of the guys who responds is Dave Montoya, and he says, so I was down there.

I had my radio with me.

So I said, let me go check it out, right?

He said, I'm thinking, who does that?

In the middle of the mountains, you get stuck.

He said, I thought it was a tourist.

I thought this crazy tourist, he got up here.

Now he's going to ask us all to save him.

Great.

Fucking people don't know what they're doing.

So he arrives at the scene and he recognizes the driver.

He knows him.

Oh.

He He goes, that's Alan.

I know Alan.

Alan, what the hell are you doing here?

It's Alan Lee Phillips is his name, A-L-A-N, by the way.

And he says, I know, I worked in the Henderson mine with this guy.

I know this guy.

Wow.

He said, you should know better, Alan.

What the fuck are you doing out here?

What are you doing out here?

So

now,

Montoya is also a miner and I guess a volunteer fireman as well.

And Alan Lee Phillips is a mechanic at the mind, at the mine, not the mind.

So Alan Lee Phillips comes running up to him and says, man, I'm glad to see you, which I bet you are because it's below zero.

You'd have died out there that night otherwise.

So he said, oh, God, I'm saved.

I'm saved.

He was like so overjoyed and

thankful.

He had a big giant gash on his eye, right over his eye.

He had a big cut on it.

Now, it was asked about the injury.

Because Montoya said, what happened to your eye, dude?

Jesus Christ, you looks like you're bleeding like crazy.

And Alan said, well, I got drunk.

That's a good start to what happened to your eye always.

You know, that's going to be a good story.

Go on.

Like my friend that used to start stories with, so I was AWOL from the Navy, right?

I'm like, this is going to be good.

Uh-oh.

I know we're in for something here.

Yeah.

He said, well, I got drunk and I decided to come home.

As one does at the end of the night sometimes.

Bad place to be.

And I didn't want to go on the highway to get caught drunk.

So I went over the pass because the cops ain't there.

Yeah.

So he went over a very dangerous mountain pass that's not to be crossed in the snow to try to avoid a DUI, essentially.

Which, in the snowy conditions, if you're swerving a little, they'll probably think that you're, you know, sliding in the snow.

They'll probably leave you alone.

Yeah.

Probably slippery.

Yeah.

He says he hit his face on his truck when he got out originally.

He slipped and smashed his face on the truck because it's so much snow.

And he's drunk.

And he's drunk.

So Montoy is thinking, he said, I'm thinking to myself, quote, boy, you are really stupid.

And he says, let me take you to the hospital here.

And Phillips goes, no, no, no, no.

I just want to get home.

I got to work in the morning.

Shit.

You know, I can't be going to the hospital.

So, I mean, this is in all the newspapers because it's such an incredible rescue.

Certainly.

The odds of it all happening the way it is.

The COS flashlight in the first place is nothing.

Headlights, not flashlight.

Headlights.

With the vehicle.

With the vehicle, the way the snow, he was stuck in the snow, pointed up.

Pointed up.

So he just was flashing his headlights to whatever he saw playing and was like maybe i don't know maybe they'll see it yeah luckiest son of a bitch ever uh and he's in all the newspapers pictures of him standing there hey all you know happy the guy the sos to a united flight that's crazy so yeah he flagged down a united commercial flight the old united 425 from denver to colorado springs

the fuck man and the plane didn't even acknowledge it a passenger did that's wild it was the middle of the night everybody most of them are probably sleeping Yeah, it's probably on autopilot, and the pilot and co-pilot are probably fasting.

I passed out and jerking each other off.

You know how it goes.

So he said SOS idea was desperation.

It was

Guanala Pass.

Guanela Pass is where he was stuck on.

And his rear end sunk into the snow, so his headlights were pointing up.

It was almost 20 below zero.

Oh my God.

Whiteout snowstorm, too.

I mean, blizzard, negative 20.

You're going to die out there.

He said he tried walking originally to a nearby ski area, but only made it about 600 feet and turned around because it was too cold.

And he said he was going to die before he got there.

So he's like, I'll get in the truck.

At least I'm shielded from the wind.

You know what I mean?

That's all I can do.

So he starts flashing his headlights, the Morse code, three short, three long, three short, over and over again.

Is that what it is?

That's apparently what it is.

What's short?

Well, it's long, long, and then shorter than that.

It's time intervals.

Yeah.

That time interval thing.

So he said he was just hoping anybody would see.

He was doing it for a while, he said.

It wasn't like he saw the plane and did it a couple of times.

He just kept doing it, hoping anybody would see it.

And he was lucky.

Now, this guy seems like he's just blessed, right?

I mean, sounds luckiest son of a bitch in the world.

And great that he knows that.

And it's weird because he doesn't seem to deserve this kind of karma because he's had a real weird past here.

In July of 1973,

There was a young woman hitchhiking on the south end of Breckenridge here.

Alan picked her up, but instead of going where he was supposed to go with her, he drove her to an empty cabin, which is terrifying.

That's how horror movies start.

Yeah, Cabin in the Woods is an actual movie.

Yeah, being driven to a cabin by a stranger who's holding you hostage is maybe the most terrifying thing you could do.

Maybe a warehouse, a cabin or a warehouse, one or the other.

Just any empty building at all.

Usually, at least a warehouse, there might be other buildings around you can scream to.

A cabin, you're like, oh, fuck, this is over, man.

I'm in the the evil dead cabin.

This is bad.

Perhaps something long and hard that I can grab and fight him with.

No, shit.

There's only one thing that's long and hard here, and I don't want to touch it.

Yep.

And he sexually assaults her in the cabin.

Oh, boy.

And he later said, I saw a woman hitchhiking on the south end of Brecken Ridge, and I stopped and gave her a ride.

And after he did all this, he told her, I don't know, I don't know why I do this.

He said,

I don't know why I do this.

No, why I did this?

No, no, no.

Not, I don't know why I did did this.

I don't know why I do this, is what he said.

Which means this is a thing he does.

This is common.

So the woman goes to the police and he gets caught and arrested.

Yeah.

And he sits down with the cops and denies nothing.

Tells them everything?

Nothing.

Yep.

It said, quote, I saw a woman hitchhiking and I stopped to give her a ride over to Fair Play.

And he says he, quote, stopped at an empty cabin along the road, pulled the girl from the Jeep, and then picked up a rock and used it to hit her several times.

Oh, my God.

When the woman asked why he was doing this, he replied, I don't know.

I don't know why I do this.

Wow.

And then he also sexually assaulted her.

So, and we don't know the exact extent to that, of that, because it's 1973, and we'll find out later on why also.

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He is given, now you'd imagine that's going to give you a stiff sentence.

You picked a woman up, beat her, dragged her to a cabin and raped her.

That seems like a stiff sentence.

He is given six months in jail for that.

Yeah.

Huh?

Colorado.

What the fuck?

I mean, I got 73, but holy shit.

Yeah.

Wow.

Okay.

South Play's the town that South Park's designed after.

Is it?

Okay.

Yep.

Capital Park in North Park.

That makes sense.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, okay.

Now that's Alan Lee there.

Or Alan, there he is, Alan Lee Phillips.

So that's him.

Now back to January 6th, 1982.

Okay.

The next morning, January 7th, 1982, Bobby Joe still isn't home.

Okay.

Now, obviously, if Jeff was worried at midnight, he's a little more worried by, you know,

quarter to eight in the morning here.

So

by at 7.45 that morning, which is like exactly 12 hours after she went out to hitchhike,

he gets a call, phone call.

He says, I'll give Jeff the floor here.

Jeff says the phone rang, I think, about quarter to eight.

It was a rancher.

He had found her driver's license and some of the contents of her wallet blowing in his driveway.

Oh, no.

And he said, oh, oh, then I knew something was horribly wrong.

Yeah.

So he rushed over.

He said, on his way there,

not at the actual ranch, but on his way there, he spotted Bobby Joe's blue backpack on the side of the road.

Fuck.

Jeff said.

So he picked it up and grabbed it, is what Jeff claims.

Oh, no.

He also said he found two other items there.

Bobby Joe's right glove.

A tissue also, a tissue next to the right glove, both of which had blood on them, the glove and the tissue.

Okay.

So Jeff said, that's when I spotted her backpack in the snow, and I got out of the vehicle and I went through the snow, and that's when I found her glove in the snow, and it was covered in blood.

So that's what he says.

So he says, okay, this is bad.

So he gets, obviously.

So a search party is formed.

by not only him, but everybody else around.

And they all go out on cross-country skis looking for her.

This is like a serious mountain search party here.

Around 3 o'clock that afternoon, they head out on the skis from the point where the rancher found her driver's license and wallet contents.

So he said, Jeff said they went up with cross-country skis to the pass,

and then that's where they found her body.

Oh, damn it.

Yeah, so they find her body.

Now,

we'll talk about her body and the condition, but not far from the body, they find something that's very strange.

A thick orange sock.

Like a booty almost, like a real thick winter Colorado sock.

Winter woolly

Colorado sock.

So they don't know.

There's a detective there that says he doesn't know if this sock has anything to do with her or what, but it's close enough where they're definitely going to bag it as part of the crime scene and everything.

They get the bloody tissue.

Now,

here we go.

So they found, this is Jim Hartkey is one of the guys at the crime scene, Colorado Bureau of Investigation agent.

He said the body was frozen.

Oh, boy.

Which it would be.

It sat out there all night.

Yeah, obviously that's terrible if

that's your family, but that's great for the investigation.

It's terrific.

Everything's preserved.

She was fully clothed.

Her hands were close together.

One of them had been zip-tied.

Okay.

So apparently somebody didn't get the the other zip tie on.

Bobby had been shot close range twice in the chest.

Twice.

Twice.

Now, here's the other thing, though.

She had the brass key ring with the hook, and it was found in the parking lot with blood on it.

Oh, she used it.

She blasted somebody.

She fucking took some shot at somebody with this fucking thing.

So they find blood on it, and they go, let's hope that's somebody else's blood and not hers, basically.

Now, the orange sock, they asked Jeff, and he says she doesn't have any socks like that.

Never seen it.

Never seen it before.

So they're like, okay, that's strange.

And the detective said that other item that was found up there, the orange booty, it was like an ankle sock.

It didn't belong.

It didn't fit anything connected with Bobby Joe Oberholzer.

Why is it there?

It's very strange.

So

super odd.

And the one zip tie, it's just the whole thing's weird.

The next day, now, January 8th, the holiday inn looks around.

They say, Where the fuck is Annette?

We got no Annette.

This is

two days of no call, no show from Annette.

That's weird.

She doesn't normally do that.

Yeah.

And remember, she went to get a ride at

4:45 in the afternoon there.

She never showed up for work.

So a co-worker calls the police department to say that Annette hadn't come to work for two days.

And they said, that's very unlike Annette.

She's very reliable.

And, you know, whatever.

So they call her mom back in Sioux City, Iowa.

And her little sister, Cindy, was 11 years old at the time and said she remembered hearing her mother on the phone and watching her mother start to cry.

And she said, I said, what's wrong?

And she said, Annette is missing.

Oh, damn it.

So, yeah.

Now, this is the time that detectives hear about Annette because they didn't know about her at first.

They were just looking at Bobby Joe.

So now they're like, wait a second, two women disappear three hours apart from each other on the same night?

Unbelievable.

In the same town.

This seems, you know, a little strange here.

Yeah, this definitely seems a little bit shady.

So they go back and try to find out what Annette did and trace her movements.

They trace her movements to the drugstore, and they know she picked up her prescription.

Yeah.

And then that's it.

She disappears off the face of the earth.

Yeah.

So they don't know what's going on.

And one of the detectives said, knowing she hitchhiked, we figured somebody probably picked her up.

We were all hoping she was still alive.

You know, you keep that hope in the back of your mind, but you're thinking probably not.

You don't want to think that, though.

Yeah, I would say.

So they are really freaked out about it.

The one detective said, Annette was last seen at about 4.30 p.m.

in the afternoon in Breckenridge.

Bobby Joe Oberholtzer was last seen about 7.30 that evening in Breckenridge.

So they're like, this is.

Too weird.

Yeah, it's either they're connected or this is real strange here.

And they said it was an all-out effort to find any information on anyone.

So they said another detective said she went in to get some medication.

She was talking to a woman that we've never been able to identify, and that was the last time she's seen.

So where does she go?

They look around.

Woman?

No, Annette.

They can't find Annette.

There's no thing like Bobby Joe, no rancher calling, saying, I found anything.

She's just gone off the face of the earth, disappeared for months.

And so they don't know anything.

Cindy, the little sister, said, I know my mom would just say, I just want to know why, how.

You know, that's all I want to know.

And nobody can give that to me.

Nobody knows why or how.

They have her written off as dead at this point, pretty much.

They don't want to think that way, but she's missing.

Months go by.

Months start to go by.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Even if she ran away from something, she'd call them.

You know what I mean?

It doesn't make sense.

Now, here's where shit takes a real wild left turn here.

Remember Jeff, Bobby Joe's husband here?

Yeah.

He goes to the investigators

on his own.

Now, his shit's already, you know, he's a suspect in Bobby Joe's disappearance, number one.

100%.

Yeah.

A big suspect in the disappearance.

But he goes to the cops and he says, I have to tell you something about Annette, that Annette.

lady that was missing also.

Remember her?

Oh.

He said that he, quote, has had different premonitions all my life, he tells the cops.

Oh, Jeff.

He says, and he has a very specific premonition about Annette's body.

And what is that, Jeff?

He said that,

quote, I felt that she'd be found four miles from my house,

from his house, Annette, who doesn't live there and they don't know each other.

On the 4th of July, he tells them she'll be found.

Why do you think that, Jeff?

Well, when the night sky is lit up, it'll be easier to see shit, apparently.

I don't know why he thinks that, but that's what he said.

It lights up better when magnesium and sulfur explodes in the sky.

Unbelievable.

July 3rd, or July 4th, he says.

That's where they'll find him.

July 3rd, 1982.

Oh, Jeff.

And that's body is found.

I don't like this.

A young boy fishing with his father who went off on his own to fish somewhere in a different part of the stream.

Oh, boy.

By the way, way, sidebar: if it weren't for young boys back in the day, half the bodies that were found would have never been found outside.

They just never would have been found.

That's the tragedy of kids not being able to go out and do shit anymore and just go outside.

Who's finding bodies now?

Who's finding them?

Used to be every 12-year-old with a fishing pole is going to come across a corpse at some point in his life, but no, not now.

That's why we're staying inside now, James.

Well, there's bodies.

There's bodies stacking up everywhere.

Look,

fucking Gilgo Beach.

Why do you think that happened?

There's no little boys just going through all that shit.

If it was 1975, they would have been finding those corpses while they were still warm.

They'd have caught that guy years ago.

Too busy playing Call of Duty.

Telling you, years ago, they would have found that shit.

So, yeah, he was fishing in a stream in the Sacramento Creek near Fairplay,

which is about 23 miles from where Annette was last seen, by the way.

And a young boy found her face down in the stream.

So that that agent Hardkey, he went to the autopsy, and no bullet is recovered, but the forensic showed that Annette was shot in the back as she was running.

They think it's a downward trajectory, so they think that she might have been running downhill toward the stream, trying to get away from whoever was chasing her.

And they shot her in the back from a higher vantage point.

Like a through and through?

Yeah, they said that, yeah, through and through.

Now, by the way, they found her face down fully clothed in the Sacramento Creek.

She'd been shot once in the back, exit wound in the front, so that's why they didn't find the bullet, on a downward angle of about 30 degrees.

Pretty good angle.

It's not bad.

So one of the investigators said it could be she was on her knees, and it could be she was running downhill away from the person who shot her.

One of those two things.

They said, though, the evidence does suggest, even though she's clothed, it suggests a sexual assault of some kind.

They said her clothing was found in disarray.

Her blue jeans zipper was broken.

That's a good sign.

And they believe that her shoes were on the wrong feet when she was found.

So somebody dressed her again, basically, and then did this, which is disgusting.

Now, they figure out that the weapon used was possibly either, and this is a range here.

I mean,

it could be a 38, a 357, or a 9mm.

Pretty good-sized bullet, either way.

A bigger bullet, but I mean, you're not really narrowing much down there.

But I mean, all they have is a hole to go on.

And this is from six months ago, and she's been in water.

So things like that.

That could be a 380 or a 40 also.

That's what I mean.

It's a big range.

So here's one thing they noticed, though.

Hartke, the agent again, he was also, like we said, at Bobby Joe's autopsy.

He's at the autopsy and they're looking at wounds.

They're looking at all this.

And then he noticed something that he didn't notice previously somehow.

Quote, on her left foot, I noticed an orange booty.

Yeah.

Think about that.

Holy sock.

Yes.

And in my mind, I'm remembering the orange booty that was found at the top of Hoosier Pass, which is where Bobby Joe was found.

Right.

Very close to Bobby Joe Oberholtzer's body was found.

And I'm saying, quote, holy shit, this is amazing.

These cases tie together.

Her sock is up there.

How is her sock?

How does she have one of the socks and the other sock is up there, but not on the girl?

Right next to another body.

Yeah.

So they believed, this is the detectives, believed that Annette lost her orange sock in the murderer's vehicle

and it remained there until the murderer also picked up Bobby Joe and attacked her.

And they think it's nothing more nefarious than Bobby Joe jumping out.

And when she jumps out of the truck, the orange sock gets kicked out of the truck with her.

Or, I mean, those fuzzy socks, it could have stuck to something.

It could have been

static on that Velcro on a boot.

Anything.

You know what I mean?

It could have stuck to anything.

Static.

You're totally right.

Your fucking fleece jacket you're wearing because it's cold out.

Yeah.

So right away, now at this point, by the way, now that they think they're together, Jeff is a little less guilty looking.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because I guess he had somewhere, he had an alibi for 4.30.

So

they think whoever did one did the other based on the sock.

Now, their original investigation, they believe the killer is a local due to the remote location where Annette was found.

He said, only a local knows where that is.

Nobody's going to come in here.

Here's the fucked up part.

Remember, we're saying, yeah, they don't think now they think Jeff is probably not the guy.

Yeah.

When searching Annette's clothing, they find a business card in her jacket pocket.

You know whose business card it is?

Is it Jeff?

It's fucking Jeff's.

What?

What the fuck?

What?

Sock is here.

Done.

Sock there.

Her husband, his business card.

Oh, my.

This is weird, right?

What's his business?

Appliance repair.

Right.

That's right.

Hippie appliance repair.

Yeah.

It's appliance repair, but he lights incense while he's doing it.

It's the same thing.

Sandals refrigerant.

Yep.

So now they bring Jeff in for questioning,

and he denies knowing Annette at all.

And they went, don't think so, Jeff, because they said, do you know this girl?

He goes, never met her.

And they go, business card.

Yeah.

How'd that happen, motherfucker?

Yeah.

Then he's, quote, suddenly remembers

picking her up while hitchhiking in November of 81.

Jeffrey.

Yep, and giving her his business card.

He said, at the time I was promoting my appliance repair business with those cards, I gave one to everyone.

Okay.

It was a new business, he said.

He is suspect one, two, and three right now.

Obviously.

But he volunteers for two polygraph tests, one state and like a federal thing, and passes them both fine, flying colors.

Then later on, we'll just get Jeff going here, when DNA testing becomes available, he willingly gives his sample and his blood type does not match any of the evidence, nor does his DNA.

That's good.

So Jeff didn't do it.

But what the fuck, Jeff?

How weird is that that Jeff didn't do it?

I'm lucky some bitch.

That's what you are.

Man, that is like, that's so unlucky.

Never, ever get addicted to gambling, Jeff.

No, it's over for you.

Also, stop picking up hitchhikers.

No one picks up hitchhikers anymore.

So the case goes cold.

Okay.

1984 comes around.

Now, Henry Lee Lucas, who is a horrible serial killer.

We're going to do a bonus about certain weird aspects of that that I wanted to talk about because I've got a lot of weird stuff on Henry Lee Lucas.

But Henry Lee Lucas is very interesting because he confessed to like hundreds of murders that he didn't do.

Just anything he saw, he'd be like, I did that one too.

Yeah.

Like he didn't give a shit.

He should give him McDonald's and cigarettes.

Exactly.

He didn't care.

So by 1984, he is the number one suspect for these murders now.

Really?

Yes, because they said

it's being investigated that these deaths are connected, possibly, because apparently

he was around at that point

apparently they believe there's a at the time he had confessed to the murder of a woman named deborah jackson who they didn't know her name until 2019 that her name was deborah jackson at the time for decades she was known as orange socks okay that's a if anybody who's like into true crime orange socks is a that's a murder victim that's an unknown unsolved case so she was known as orange socks because she was wearing fucking orange socks.

Orange socks, yeah.

And they said that

this, at the time, she disappeared on Halloween night 1979, or that's where she was found.

That's the night she was found in a culvert off the I-35, just north of mile marker 268 in Georgetown, Texas.

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Now, the medical examiner said it was strangulation and it was a homicide.

And they said the only article of clothing she had on her was a pair of orange socks.

Wow.

So that's why she was known as orange socks.

And then DNA and genealogy found that her name was Deborah Jackson, actually, and she was 23 at the time she disappeared.

And

Henry Lee Lucas had confessed to her murder.

So they tried to go back and investigate it, and they said she usually did maid work for hotels and stuff like that.

I tried to track down those companies, but none of them are in existence anymore.

This is the 70s.

So, yeah, they said they tried to put together a timeline for her and really had a hard time doing it.

But because at the time Henry Lee Lucas had confessed to this, they think orange socks yeah maybe this is a weird thing he has he loves socks that he puts orange socks on people so that's why they were thinking maybe he did it now later on he recanted the Deborah Jackson confession and they don't think he

and a hundred others they don't think he did it at all so that ends up being nothing but in 1984 that became a big oh shit do we finally have it so 1989 a private investigator is hired by a nets family okay there's no progress and they're fucking sick of it after seven years and I don't blame them.

So they hire a retired Denver homicide detective named Charlie McCormick, and he charges the family.

This is wild.

He works the case for fucking decades.

He charges them $1

per year.

Okay.

$1 per year.

Basically, I'll do it for free.

He works on it every day.

And he said that, quote, as years went by, you know, we mused about whether or not we were going to die before we solved this case.

1992, the case is on unsolved mysteries.

Again, another unsolved mysteries.

They keep popping up here.

This is unbelievable.

Yep, they do an up segment on this.

They were in Breckenridge shooting the whole thing.

And they said, the detective at the time, this is 1991, said, we have no indication, no idea who did it.

That's what they say on TV.

All they know is that Olberholzer was found on Hoosier Pass.

She might have temporarily escaped her assailant before she was killed.

They said that it looked like she was chased before she was shot in the back of the head with a large caliber handgun.

And yeah, that's all they have, basically.

It's kind of

it.

So 1998 comes around.

And this is DNA testing is taking leaps and bounds.

And investigators test blood found on various items for DNA and determine it belongs to an unknown male.

Okay.

Nobody's in the system.

So

they have an unknown DNA sample, but at least there's something to compare people to at this point.

Now, if they ever do get a suspect,

you can

include or get rid of them.

Exclude, yeah.

Exclude in a second.

So in the 2000s, early 2000s, the Discovery Channel does some psychic horseshit on the show about this with some psychics bullshit.

Hey, shocker, they didn't solve it.

No,

big surprise.

2005, possibly progress.

Oh.

Okay.

There's an anonymous tip.

An anonymous tip comes in and names a suspect.

Who is it?

Now they never find out who made the fucking call, but somebody called in and said, Alan Lee Phillips killed those girls.

Oh.

And fucking hung up.

That was it.

So, that's member Alan Lee Phillips, the guy that was rescued from the snow here.

SOS, man.

DNA technology in 2005 is still not perfect.

It's good, but it's not what it is today at this point.

So this lead kind of goes cold because they don't really have any other connection to it at that point.

Then in 2020, 2020, 38 fucking years later,

investigators hook up with the Metro Denver Crime Stoppers and the United Data Connect in 2020.

This is a company that uses DNA to help solve cold cases.

They take it and they, you know, look through because cops don't have the manpower to, and they don't, it's not their expertise to go through genealogy sites and all that kind of shit.

Their expertise is to get somebody in a room and try to force them to say they did it.

That's their.

They say you did it so I can go home.

God damn it.

Gee, I've been here for 36 straight hours.

Say it.

So they said, you think about these two young, beautiful women that you've been seeing pictures of lying in the snow after being shot in the darkness by themselves, dying, basically freezing to death.

It would make you not want to give up like Charlie didn't, meaning the investigator there.

That's the co-founder of the United Data Connect here.

And he said, and it makes you want to answer the question of who would do something so horrible to somebody else.

They said, the case has kept going because there's always something to do that as a good investigator or professional investigator, you couldn't ignore.

If something keeps popping up, you got to keep following it, you know?

Yeah.

But we're talking about 40 years.

And so they're like, is this going to help or not?

So

there's a detective named Detective Sergeant Wendy Kipple on the case at this point in early 2020.

And she said, quote, let's try this genealogy thing.

Maybe it can work for us.

Seems to work on it.

Yeah.

Give it a shot.

So she sent the, because this is after they caught the, you know, Golden State killer and all that kind of shit.

So they're catching old killers on DNA all the time.

This is how they got Koberger, too, in a second.

I mean, they're solving cases from the 70s

in the late 2010s left and right because they finally can do it.

So, well, the problem is a lot of those people who killed were dead already.

That kind of sucks, but

at least they're dead.

That's good.

Anyway, they sent a DNA sample from Bobby Joe, from the Bobby Joe investigation, which is of they think of the killer.

And they sent that to United Data Connect.

And Wendy Kipple said, on January 9th, 2021, I get a phone call from the genealogist that says, I have two more names for you.

Okay.

Okay.

So

at this point, they're like, we know that the whole thing is going to be DNA at this point.

We're not going to get like witness, a witness to come forward 40 years later.

So she said, I'll never forget the day I got that phone call and got those names.

The names names are Bruce Phillips

and Alan Phillips.

Lee.

Alan Lee Phillips.

Now, Alan Lee is now 69 years old, and Bruce Phillips is his older brother.

So they reach out to Bruce first.

Now, Bruce said, number one, he never lived in Colorado.

Okay.

So that's one thing he said, but my brother, who I haven't talked to in years and years and years, he's an asshole.

They're, you know, estranged from each other.

He said he's lived there before.

So the detective dug a little deeper and found out that, yes, Alan Lee Phillips did live in Colorado.

As a matter of fact, he lived just outside Breckenridge and worked in a mine at the time.

So they're like, okay.

They said Alan Phillips still lived nearby in 2021.

Oh.

He had his own mechanic shop.

He was still there, just sitting around.

Didn't leave.

Nope.

He'd been married three times since then.

He has a daughter and two stepsons.

And they're like, we got to know about this guy here.

So they look into his criminal history, and they found out that he's arrested in 1973 for fucking picking up a hitchhiker and beating her over the head.

And then she told on him, which would mean next time you don't leave anybody alive.

Yeah, don't leave him to talk.

She went, holy shit.

So she tried to find the arrest file.

By the way, he had his record expunged somehow in 2002.

What?

Somehow, yeah, because it was a 30-year-old thing.

I don't know what was going on.

It should never go away.

But he got it wiped in 2003, which is ridiculous.

So she tried to find the arrest file, but couldn't find it.

No court records of the case.

The DA had nothing.

Wow.

She's like, fuck.

She said, I knew I had to find the case file, so I went over to the archives for the sheriff's office.

This is, you know, and she said there was a fire at one point, so a lot of them had been destroyed.

This is not great.

She said that she went through hundreds of boxes and filing cabinets, and she said, I get down to the last filing cabinet, the last filing cabinet, and even down to the second to the last drawer.

And halfway back, I see this tab that says Alan Phillips.

So she went through all this.

How are you not more surprised at that, that that would be in there after all?

You're like, uh-huh, like that's normal.

Yeah.

What do I have to tell you to get a surprise reaction out of you?

She got the tab, she was like, it fell from the sky and landed on her forehead.

So she said, I was like, this is it.

This is our golden egg right here.

Yeah.

She reads the first sentence and it said, quote, I saw a woman hitchhiking on the south end of Breckenridge and I stopped and gave her a ride over to Fairplay.

Fuck.

And then she reads the whole description and she's like, mother fucker.

How could we?

This is the guy.

She said that Phillips said he stopped at an empty cabin, pulled the girl from the Jeep, picked up a rock.

We told you about it before.

Yep.

Wendy Kipple said, when I saw that first sentence i was like this is him this is our guy there it is mo like a motherfucker so the problem is the young woman who didn't want her identity revealed uh she was able to convince him to let her go and then turned him in obviously so he all she also learned that in 2005

Alan Phillips' name came up in connection with a double murder in 2005.

Yeah, with a different one.

And an anonymous caller had called about this one in 2005.

How does he get to stay under the rate?

Well, because he had it expunged in 2005.

Yeah, so they didn't look at that.

Wow.

If they looked him up, when people say that, they look up, does he have any violent history?

He has no criminal history.

This is not our guy.

If it's not there, then we don't look.

And he was like 50.

So they're like, he's not going to start doing this at 50.

Now?

Yeah.

Now he's going to start killing people.

So they had checked it out and it went cold at the time.

So at this point, now they need Alan's DNA because all they have is this genealogy family lineage.

Somebody in his family to it.

Yeah.

So they they said we had to get, you know, DNA from him and we needed to steal it from him.

Yeah.

So that's what we needed.

So they said they're looking for anything that he's throwing out, garbage.

Yeah.

And they start, there's a whole team of cops following this guy around, waiting for him to throw something away.

Hilarious.

As we've seen with the Gilgo Beach guy, they did that till he threw away a pizza box with a pizza crust in it.

They got him on some fucking street pizza, man.

Got him on some fake rays.

Yeah, got him on some fucking street Sabaros.

Some knockoff shit New York pizza.

Maybe it was one of the $1.50 slices or whatever.

So they said it was really hard.

The sergeant, Wendy Kipple, said he wouldn't throw anything away.

He didn't even throw out his garbage.

What does he do?

Burn it?

They said, well, where does he put his garbage?

She said, I don't know.

He just eats everything.

It's in there.

Yeah.

He recycles everything.

I mean, wrappers.

He keeps it.

He eats milk cartons.

He doesn't give a shit.

He's got a compactor.

He said, I have no fucking idea.

And she also said, this guy was kind of a hermit.

He stayed at home.

He didn't interact with people too much.

They followed him for five weeks without being able to get a piece of garbage.

Imagine that.

Five weeks.

You'd get me so fast.

So fast.

Yeah.

So you'd get whatever joint I was smoking.

You get it right there.

Boom.

I leave something outside all the time.

Fucking just in my mouth.

Some can or some shit shit I was drinking out of.

So then five weeks into this, he leaves his home and goes to a sonic drive-in.

Sonic

hamburger joint there.

So the detective here, Wendy Kipple, said, we're all like sitting there watching and watching.

And he gets his food, he eats, and he leaves.

Yeah.

And I'm like, dang it.

He didn't throw away his trash.

He threw away nothing.

Nothing.

He kept it.

He kept the bag.

So they followed him to a post office.

He walked in carrying the sonic bag.

What?

This guy, he knows that he.

It's why.

Why does he

got something to hide if you're doing that, right?

Keep all of your garbage.

Yeah.

I would say you got something to hide.

You just carry your sonic trash with you.

But on the way out, he's only holding mail.

Oh, so he threw it away in the fucking place.

Inside the post office.

Wow.

So the second he pulled away.

Federal property, mind you.

Yeah, where it's not like it's, it's, you know, at that point, they can easily get it.

He essentially, you can't say it's my trash.

No.

You gave it to the feds.

You gave it to the feds, the property of the federal government at that point.

Yeah.

So the second he pulled away, they dive into this trash can like crazy.

Oh, man, did he leave a tater tot in there?

I'm starving.

Is there a remainder of a chili dog, anything?

Oh, man.

So the bag gets taken to the lab.

They pull DNA from saliva on a napkin they get at this bag.

He wiped his mouth.

And they said they did the test, and it was Alan Lee Phillips' blood on Bobby Joe's glove and Kleenex.

She punched him.

She knocked, she fucking

knocked him silly.

She knocked him silly.

She used that thing on the outside of her glove and drilled him in the face.

Cut him open good, too.

He had a big gash over his eye.

I mean, she jacked him.

And they said Bobby Joe was a fighter, and without her being a fighter, we wouldn't have the DNA that we needed to solve this case.

If she didn't hit him, this never gets solved.

No way.

Unbelievable.

So February 24th, 2021, they go and arrest Alan Lee Phillips, who is mega-surprised.

Can't believe it.

He has long, this is not on his radar.

What are you guys here for?

Yep.

Wendy Kipple said, I got to put the handcuffs on him, and he was shocked.

The look of shock on his face is just priceless.

He's just unbelievable.

So he's charged with two counts each of first-degree homicide, kidnapping, and assault.

He denies everything.

Of course.

He says he's a semi-retired mechanic living in Dumont in Clear Creek County.

He's got three kids from a former marriage.

He's been in Colorado.

He said, I never went anywhere.

What are you talking about?

Yeah.

He said, well, your DNA is there.

Somebody punched you in the face years ago.

Do you remember?

Remember that?

The sheriff, what's got a little scar over your eye, Chief?

Yeah.

The sheriff said that although some people don't stay in an area where they commit crimes, he wasn't surprised that it was, that Phillips lived close by

because he said that

he said also Phillips has lived in other areas of Colorado since the murders.

Sure, sure.

So,

yeah, that's wild.

Yeah, his

73 convictions were purged in 2002, and that was that.

So

this is wild.

Bobby Joe's sister, Lori, said that was a shock.

The way they were able to get the DNA to find him and catch him, that was amazing.

Unbelievable.

You've given up hope that they're ever going to find who did this by far.

And Annette's sister said, truthfully, I didn't think it would happen in my lifetime.

And Annette's other sister, Cindy, the one who was 11 when she went missing, said it was just mind-blowing, jaw-dropping.

I didn't know what to think.

Dave Montoya, who's the guy who rescued Alan Lee Phillips from the goddamn snow that night, said, if I would have known what, if I would have known what I know then, what I'd known then, I probably would have left him.

If I'd have known he's a murderer, I just

you.

That's fucking funny.

So he didn't learn until everyone else in 2021 about this.

And Montoya said, quote, who, I mean, who has luck like that?

I, really, you commit two murders, you get stuck up at the top of a pass trying to flee the scene and everything else, and you get stuck where you're probably going to die.

You ask for mercy and you get it.

God gave him the mercy, but he says, you're not going to get away forever.

You got your mercy, but you got to pay.

So shit.

He got to live his whole life, though, basically.

Yeah.

Jeff, too.

Oh, shit.

Yeah, Jeff.

A lot of people were like, That Jeff got away with that for a long time before this happened.

So Jeff.

Poor bastard for fucking 30 years.

People were just walking by him going, That guy's probably a murderer.

Even though his DNA was cleared and everything else.

Yeah, it had nothing to do with it.

It wasn't clear.

His DNA wasn't cleared officially till you know way later.

Till late in the 2000s.

So it was 20-something years.

So 2022, he's going to go to trial.

Yeah.

And Annette's sisters and brother flew all the way there to be there for it.

Cindy said, the little sister, we wanted to make sure that the family was represented.

You know, when the jury looks over, you want to see them, you want them to see the concerned, not the leftovers, but the left-behinds.

And

they said that seeing Alan in court was kind of hard.

Cindy said, I was disgusted.

You got to live about Alan.

You got to live 40 years of your life.

You took my sister to see him sit there so emotionless, no emotion whatsoever, just very stoic, was very frustrating.

Now, this looks like, you know, Wendy Kipple said, to me, the case is a slam dunk, but to attorneys, they have ways to make it not seem like such a slam dunk.

And the defense team said they're going to question the validity of the DNA and other evidence and blame Jeff for murdering his wife, Ananette.

Wow.

Yeah, they're going to go after Jeff, even though he's been cleared scientifically years before.

Wendy said, Wendy Kipple said they pointed the finger at Jeff every step of the way.

It's so maddening because that's not where the evidence led to.

So they got Jeff up there on the stand.

Little sister Cindy said they raked him over the coals.

They hadn't,

like he hadn't been through this for the last 40 years.

And Jeff said they definitely wanted to put the crimes back on me, the murders back on me.

It was quite painful.

The defense claimed that Jeff had a motive to kill his wife.

Really?

He was angry at her because the day before the murder,

you know what she did, Jimmy?

Got a promotion?

No, no, the day before the murder.

What did she do?

Got a promotion?

What did she do?

Blew a guy in the front lawn.

Right.

She brought home cold pizza.

That'll do it.

You bitch, I will kill you in the snow.

Don't you come home with

it's negative 20.

If you go from anywhere to anywhere, you got cold pizza.

It's never going to be up.

Cheese is hard by the time you get home.

Yeah.

Don't come home.

Jeff had told the investigators about the pizza thing years earlier, so it wasn't even a big deal.

And Wendy Kipple said, I kind of found that a little bit ludicrous.

I couldn't fathom Jeff killing Bobby Joe over a cold piece of pizza.

That's not very hippie-like.

No.

They did question him, too, about the defense does about his bizarre behavior, like telling the investigators about a premonition of when and where the body would be found.

It was pretty goddamn close.

Yeah.

You know, and they said that this could be seen as pretty damning to some, right?

And Jeff said, and so it was.

I just tried to tell the truth and answer the questions.

The DNA, they tried to say that the DNA had been tampered with and mishandled throughout the years.

Wendy Kipple said there was some contamination.

It wasn't known.

Oh, I have to be careful and wear gloves so I don't get my DNA on that item.

But the bottom line is the blood on the, on, the blood that is on Bobby Joe's glove and tissue is Alan Lee Phillips' blood.

No amount of other cops touching it could make his blood there.

Right.

It doesn't matter.

I could spit in it.

It's still his DNA.

It's still his.

I'll be in it too, but it's still his.

By the way, on the glove, the DNA match was one in 17 quadrillion.

It's his.

Which is 2,275,000 times the population of Earth.

Of Earth.

Yeah.

There's 2 million Earths before.

The sun will burn out.

Yeah.

And the Earth will go dark before enough people are made to make it possible for it to be somebody else.

That's what's wild.

That's interesting.

So they said that the ties

were both women were to the sock because DNA conducted, testing conducted a month before the trial revealed that Annette's DNA was on the inside and Bobby Joe's DNA was on the outside of the orange sock that was found by Bobby Joe's body.

So it connects everything that he had.

Sock touched her and her.

Wow.

It did come off of a net.

That's what it was.

So they were like, you know, this is crazy.

They just thought they were trying to confuse the jury, and they were worried that they'd get one fucking juror that would be confused by shit like this.

Sure.

They

deliberate for four hours and 45 minutes.

Okay.

That's fine.

It's eight charges.

Two counts each: first-degree murder, felony, murder, kidnapping, all that shit.

He's found guilty.

Wow.

Yeah.

He showed no emotion, but he has an adult daughter there who is crying because that's her dad and she didn't know he's a monster.

Can't believe her dad sucks.

Yeah, one of the people said his poor daughter cried.

I felt bad for the family because what they were going to, what they were going through, had to be bad because they probably wanted to believe, you know, that he didn't do it.

Sentencing comes around.

Defense attorney says he maintains his innocence and maintains that he is the wrong man being sentenced.

The judge says,

I'm going to go ahead and take my chances.

You, sir, may fuck off two life sentences, consecutive, no parole.

No parole.

No parole.

Fucked, fucked, and fucked.

Take a hike.

Now they said there's a lot of, you know, is there more victims?

There's got to be, right?

And one of the cops said, short answer, yes.

I think that there are several that he could certainly qualify for, but we don't have any evidence to prove it yet.

There's several bodies that fit where he's going, that they could tie to him, but there's no DNA.

So, man, they would say one guy said this, Charlie McCormick, the PI, said, I would say this, in 38 years of law enforcement for myself, anybody that can commit a crime like that, of killing these two beautiful women, I think could have the tendency to commit other violent acts.

For sure.

Speaking of committing a violent act, February 27th, 2023,

four months after he's sentenced to two consecutive

life without parole sentences, he is found dead in prison at the Arkansas Valley Correctional Facility at 72 years old.

He killed himself.

What a piece of shit.

Pussy went out like that real fast, four months.

The Dave Montoya, the guy who pulled him out, said,

everything catches up, but you know, now you can't get away with anything forever.

No.

No, you can't.

So that is Breckenridge, Colorado.

What a story.

What a story, Mark.

That's 10 pounds of murder in a two-pound bag right there, everybody.

Holy shit.

Learn FOS.

That'll save your life, evidently.

Holy fuck.

Wow.

God.

All right.

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