Bigfoot Murder Conspiracy - Allen, Oklahoma

Ch-ch-ch-ch-chumba! Looking for excitement? Chumba Casino is here. Play anytime, play anywhere.
Play on the train, play at the store, play at home, play when you're bored. Play today for your chance to win.
And get daily bonuses when you log in. So, what are you waiting for? Don't delay! Chumba Casino is free to play.
Experience social gameplay like never before. Go to Chumba Casino right now to play hundreds of games, including online slots, bingo, slingo, and more.
Live the Chumba life at chumbacasino.com. No purchase necessary.
VGW group void. We're prohibited by law.
21 plus terms and conditions apply. With 4imprint, finding the right promo products has never been easier.
You get free samples, expert help, and art assistance to ensure your logo looks great. 4imprint offers thousands of options to choose from, including summer-ready gear, brand and apparel, drinkware, outdoor, and more.
Your order will be packed with care,

delivered on time, and backed by their 360 degree guarantee. That's 4imprint certainty.

Need your order fast? 4imprint offers quick turnaround options too.

Visit 4imprint.com and see how easy ordering can be.

4imprint, for certain.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express.

Yay, choo-choo!

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed.
My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my cohost.
I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today.
All aboard the murder train. Here we go.
Pulling away from the station. We got some wild stuff.
I mean, really some mystically mystical figures. Wild stuff today.
Vortex. This is episode 600.
So it's kind of a special celebration 600 that's a big yeah it's a big deal a lot so we've made it to 600 so what we're doing is this story we did for a virtual live show usually we wait about six months to put those out but with 600 so we're like let's do it a special treat it's a wild episode so let's have some fun and give the people a great 600th year. Give me what you want.
Let's do this. It's so much fun.
First of all, head over to Shut Up and Give Me Murder.com. Get your merchandise.
Get your tickets for live shows in the fall. Coming in September, I think they start.
There's like a few tickets left in some places. And then, you know, I think Portland's sold out.
Right. And I want to say Grand Rapids is sold out.
It's amazing. Yeah, thank you so much for everything.
You guys show up like our parents never did. That's exactly right.
Thank you. And we appreciate that.
We're not staring through the fence holding our baseball glove with you guys because you show up. And we can't tell you how much that means to us.
Yeah, yeah. When other times it hasn't been like that in our lives.
Fascinating. So it's just an off-air conversation that you had to be pretty true.
We just did two hours with each other. We just did a therapy session.
Nobody showed up. It's hilarious.
So anyway, do that. Get your tickets like Seattle, Philly, D.C.
It's going to be great. Get those.
Yeah, we can't wait. Irvine, there's some tickets left there.
Hurry up, though. That one's a big, deep, cavernous comedy club.
It's going to be awesome. We can't wait for that.
So get your asses in there. That is Shut Up and Give Me Murder.com.
You also definitely, definitely want to get Patreon. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all the bonus material.
Anybody, $5 a month or above, you're going to get a giant back catalog of hundreds and hundreds of episodes you've never heard before. And they're all like an hour long, too.
Yeah. There's a lot of stuff.
You can get that every inch. You can have all of it.
You can binge on all of that. We won't leave you sitting at the fence holding your baseball glove.
So you can get all of that. And you get new ones every other week, including this week.
This week, we're going to do for- Oh, soccer riots. Yes.
Crime and sports soccer riots and then small town murder. The Joseph Duncan, the thirds prison blog.
Joey dunk about some words. Oh my God.
He's got some philosophies about how I won't even give it away. It's insane.
We're going to, we're going to mock him unmercifully because he's a huge jackass. So we can't wait to do that.
Patreon.com slash crime in sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the regular show, too.
Jimmy will mispronounce your name. Don't you worry about that.
Doing my best. So that said, I think it's time, everybody, to sit back.
What do you say here? Let's all clear the lungs. Arms to the sky.
Let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder.
Let's do this, everybody. Okay.
Let's go on a trip, shall we? We shall. We're going to Oklahoma this week.
Lovely place. Normally, I think we did Enid like three months ago.
All right. So normally we'd wait a little bit longer.
But like I said, special treat today because this story is so weird and so crazy that it just needed to be told for episode 600. We're going to Allen, Oklahoma.

Allen.

Allen, which is in central Oklahoma.

Right.

It's about an hour and 45 minutes to Oklahoma City.

So there's not a lot.

It's out there.

This is a real rural area.

It is fascinating how you just get it right outside OKC and it is nothing.

You hit the city limits and it is just interstates and car fires.

That's all you see for

as far as the eye can see i need water i'm gonna die out here it's why yeah it's crazy uh two and a half hours to dallas yeah and about three hours to enid oklahoma the last one we did the sexy sunday school teacher slaughter so hot which was a really weird episode this is in hughes county and a little bit in Pontotoc County, I believe it's that.

Pontotoc.

Pontotoc County.

I don't understand. It's only a 0.94 square mile town.
It's less than a mile, but somehow they couldn't keep it all in one county. I don't understand how that works.
Population here, 969. Very small.
I mean, it's less than a thousand. Med.
Right. Median household income here, normally about $69,000 in the rest of the country.
$36,333. Yeah.
Awfully low. And then median home cost, again, way under the national average.
About a third, or a little more than a third, $133,800. Yeah.
That is- It's just a heavy kite. Yeah.
Man, people pay more than that for pickup trucks now. Yeah.
I think a Dodge Ram is more than that. That's- They're- Every make- It's going to heavy kite.
Yeah, that's, man, people pay more than that for pickup trucks now. I think a Dodge Ram is more than that.
Every make makes one that is very expensive. I feel like a Dodge Ram is easier to keep down in a tornado, too, than a $130,000 house that's probably going to fly away.
In Twister, it stuck around longer. It stuck around longer.
It didn't get tossed. No, all the boards came right off the side of the house.
That thing was disintegrated. The machine came out of the bed, but the truck stayed put.
The truck stayed put. That's what I'm saying.
That's the point. You get yourself a big heavy pickup truck.
Never mind this trailer bullshit. The motto here, yee-haw.
Yee-haw. History of this town.
Founded in 1883, a group of settlers that arrived in the Choctaw Nation, Indian Territory from Texas, led by a Confederate Army doctor, Dr. John Trigg Gilmore.
They settled in Cold Springs, which is northwest of where Allen is presently, and other people started coming. They built a log cabin in 1883.
That was built as a school and a church. Great.
So no separation there, all in one. The town was named after the son of Deputy U.S.
Marshal William McCall. I assume his name is Alan McCall.
That's all I can do. Has to be.
Has to be. Where Alan stands now was the site of the Battle of Middle Boggy, which is a Civil War battle.
Sure. Which is, you don't think about Civil War battles happening in Oklahoma, but there was.
Or bogs. Or bogs.
Or you don't think of bogs in Oklahoma. Yeah.
It's pretty dry. But yeah, there was Civil War battles all the way west.
I mean, they had them all over the country. It's crazy.
So in 1892, Dr. Gilmore became the first postmaster and founded the town's first Masonic lodge.
So there's hardly anybody here. Let's keep some of the people out right away.
Let's make something that's exclusive. Let's do that because there's like eight people here and we can't have them all the same thing.
It became a boom town in the early 1900s. In 1913, an oil well was drilled west of town.
It became a big boom town. So there was that.
Population shot up and then dropped back down again. And mainly it's just oil and ranching and agriculture in this spot.
Also, there was a bank robbery here that's pretty famous from 1928 as well. Now, reviews of this town.
Let's find out what people think. We've never been to Allen, Oklahoma.
I'll be honest here. Five stars here.
Okay. Allen is a small town in Oklahoma.
Well, we know that because it's on the show that is not very big. It's a small town that isn't very big.
It's one of those big towns that's huge. I'm a tall guy who's not very short and had the same population for quite some time now.
The main part of the town is the school, which connects everyone. The main part.
Unless you're over 18. You shouldn't be connected to the school at all at that point.
You should be gone. You should be away from that school.
It is fascinating. Small towns.
Those people love their high school reunions. Oklahoma, Texas.
High school football in Texas is the biggest thing they have. I mean, that's huge.
Their reunion in their 60s. They're still going.
They're still going. Fucking hell, man.
I don't get it. I haven't gotten any of them.

I couldn't give a shit.

That is interesting.

I've seen many people there that are not from around the Allen area and go to the school

because it's on the way to their parents' work.

That's helpful.

So we just enroll them there because I can drop them off on the way.

That's interesting.

So without the school, the town would be much different.

Yeah.

Yeah, I would think so. It'd be dumber.
A lot dumber, and the kids would be real bored. It's a good thing school was convenient for everyone.
Yeah. With this, I think that Allen's a very family-friendly place and would be good for living in.
Would be. Would be.
It is mainly a country school, so expect people who like country music. Is that what they said? It's the last line of the thing.

It's mainly a country school,

so I would expect that in Allen, Oklahoma, no matter what.

I'd expect country to be playing if I go in a bar or something.

Here's another five stars.

Allen is small and pretty boring.

Five stars, by the way.

Boring.

Everyone knows everyone.

This is a good thing and also a bad thing.

They always say that in these reviews.

I mean, that could be good and also bad.

There's not much to do but watch grass grow, and that's pretty fun.

So I love Alan and love living here, even though all I do is stare at my lawn.

And then finally, three stars.

For a small town, most of the people that currently live here enjoy what they do for a living because it is peaceful and you don't waste gas driving 30 miles you don't waste gas that's how i look at a town hey i don't have to waste gas this is great this big city just wasting all the gas people go in places because there's stuff to do i won't have it uh things to do here the pickle fest yeah oh boy get ready for pickle themed shopping it says here christ you that the pickle fest shop hop will take you to an oaky trading post sister act three fantastic i think a whoopee dropped out of that one i don't think she was in that one she was tired by the way i'm not doing that i'm only contracted for two yeah and the chubby lady got uh uh she became really big yeah she got real big she got real big. She's too busy with King of the Hill money.
Yeah. Picklefest commemorates the Old Calvin Pickle Company, which brined locally grown cucumbers and shipped them all over the country in the 60s and 70s.
Yep. So that's what you're doing.
There's the poster. See it? There it is.
Homegrown pickles. There's really not a lot going on.
Love a good pickle. I love pickles.
I love pickles. The juice is so good.
I love a pickle, man. Love it.
Like a garlic, a dill. Here's an embarrassment.
I will drink the juice before I eat all the pickles, and then I just have to throw them out. It's so good.
I love pickles. They'll dry out.
Oh, you can't do that. You can't do that.
You got to save the juice. I just wish.
You need to buy two pickle things, throw the pickles out of the first one, save the juice, use that, use the pickles out of the other. I think I just solved your problem.
I just wish they just sold just the pickle juice. That would be fun.
There is a pickle eating contest. Okay.
Are you this year's pickle king or queen? Can you relax your throat and jam them down? I'll just stuff them like those hot dogs, like the Japanese guys. Fight for your title with the most pickles eaten.
Uh-huh. Okay.

There's that.

And there's also Ada Fest.

What is it?

Oh, Ada, Oklahoma.

Yeah.

Just come there.

And so they have music in the park.

Yeah.

They have all sorts of stuff.

Some of the bands here.

RC and the Ambers.

Yep.

Kylie Nix and the 38s.

Yeah.

Milk Bone.

By the way, some of these people are playing half-hour, 45-minute sets.

Like, back to back to back.

Jesus.

Pumping them out. The Billy Kay Band.
Mm-hmm. Vlad's Fault.
Vlad's Fault. Vlad's Fault.
He did it. He did it all.
Crazy Heart, which is like heart. Yeah.
They're nuts. They're from the mental institution.
They get brought in with straight jackets on. They take them off just to play, and then they wrap them back up again, take them in there.
They get wheeled in like animals put them up on the stage okay go and they hand them a guitar they're still strapped to the gurney but their hands have movement so they can play guitars and drums and shit i want to see that uh john crocker yeah what that is uh sunny ukulele ukulele if she plays the ukuleledlestead, which, I mean, he comes out of the womb with a cowboy hat on, right? It just sounds like Jim Nothing. Perfect.
That was also the alternate name of the show. We almost called it Jim Nothing, and we decided to go with it.
Jim Dandy's cousin. That's that.
Then a couple others. Billy Irwin and the Gambits.
Bill Irwin was a wrestler back in the day. I wonder if it's the same.
No, he's dead, I think.

He died of cancer back in the day.

And also, bottom of the barrel will be there, which is probably appropriate.

They're the last one.

That said, let's talk about a part of it. Here we go.

It is interesting stuff.

Let's talk about a guy first.

Jimmy Glenn Knighton.

Yeah.

K-N-I.

Knight, like in shining armor.

E-N.

Okay.

Jimmy, by the way, is his full name, but it's not I-E.

It's Jimmy with a Y.

Y?

Yeah, they put Y on his birth certificate.

That's Jimmy Glenn.

How about it?

Old Jimmy Glenn, born April 15, 1970, to his parents, Della and Glenn Knighton.

It's a middle name after his.

Hillbillies love to do that.

Yeah.

Just take the shortened name

and just make them that that's somebody's real name oh yeah yeah billy my uncle's name was ricky that's real name see it all the time ricky we see it all the time on this show it's never fails what the fuck uh he's from ada oklahoma as everybody here is kind of from ada and things happen in Allen here. He graduated

from Allen High School

and went on after a while

to own his own body shop, his own car place, a frame and body shop for 15 years. Jesus.
So, I mean, he kind of. That's hard work, man.
It is. He makes his own way here, though.
He's a tough guy. He's a big outdoorsman.
Yeah. A lot of people in the area are.
Loves to fish and hunt and fish and hunt four wheelers according to one of his friends most of all he likes to drink his beer around a big bonfire you bet who doesn't like to ride four wheelers and drink beer with a fire that sounds fun it's fun shit you'll gradually get more fucked up while you watch things burn it Terrific. It's a stress reliever.
You have to throw more shit on the fire. And watch it burn.
Do it all the time. He's real friendly and kind of a gregarious guy.
Kind of that kind of cat here. He meets his wife, Stacy.
Sure. And they're going to have some kids and everything else.
It's not bad. Yeah, they have a son and a daughter.
Or two daughters and a son. Two daughters, two sons.
Oh, my. He's got four kids.
Yes. Creston, Kimberly, Aaron, but that's the boy, A-I-R-Y-N.
Nope. That ain't it.
Aaron, I guess. Aaron.
Big Jordan fan. Yeah, I don't know what that's about.
You've got to get Aaron there somewhere. You've got to get Aaron there somewhere.
And Braden. So everybody's got's got in.
Kimberly doesn't. Otherwise, it's all ends.
So now they're married for 20 years, have four kids, end up getting a divorce, but not a contentious divorce. It's the type of divorce.
It's like, well, we can't really be together, but we should get along well. We pumped out four kids.
We know there's probably some stress in here. we can raise our kids together and they get along so that that says something for somebody's general demeanor and kind of how they are if they can get along with their ex that's a it's a good positive sign that both of them are doing it pretty mentally healthy at that point you know what i mean you can realize i can get over my own shit for the kids so that's good um and a couple of minor little scuffles with the law, but nothing much.
It's like transporting an open container beer. That's a charge that he got.
Transporting it. Yeah.
He had a can of beer while he was driving, which is pretty common in this area, I have a feeling. In rural areas.
We won't ticket you for, since it's your first one, we won't ticket you for the DUI. Just have it in the container.

Transporting it.

That's fascinating.

I like the transport.

He was carrying it. I pictured it on a flatbed, just all strapped in, like one can of beer that's open.

Just needs a ride.

He's not allowed to have that.

Shit.

Or maybe it was like Smoky and the Bandit type of thing.

He was transporting illegal beers.

But no, it's probably just he had a can of beer that got pulled over.

This was in March of 2011, this happened. Wow.
Also transporting a loaded firearm, which again, in this area. How else are you going to do this? Yeah, in this area, I don't know how you're going to get a loaded firearm from one place to another.
You're not allowed to have that in the car? You've got to unload it probably. Maybe unload it or maybe that's with beer.
It's also, you know, because I know most places you're not supposed to drink and be armed. You know, even in Tombstone, they look down on that.
Yeah, they're like, you can leave that at the bar. That's going to probably cause problems, right? We just let these people.
Yeah, you can get pissed drunk, but just don't get so mad that you got a firearm on you. You got to solve it.
We'll give you your gun when you sober up again. Yeah, I'm on your way out the door.
I don't give a fuck out there. Now, he's got a buddy here named Lawrence Doyle Sanders.

D-O-I-L Doyle

and Sanders S-A-N-D-E-R-S.

So his name is Larry Sanders.

No shit. Same spelling

and goes by Larry. And if you don't

understand the reference there, there was an HBO show

starring Gary Shandling and Jeffrey Tambor

and one of the better sitcoms

of all time. Very hilarious.

Called the Larry Sanders show.

Why? When have you ever said that?

What do you... and one of the better sitcoms of all time, very hilarious, called The Larry Sanders Show.
Can you just stop saying, hey, now? Why? When have you ever said that? Hey, now, that's a nice. I've been saying it for a long time.
I mean, first I'd say, hey. Yeah, then I'd say, now.
And then later on, I added a now. Hey, now.
Use it in a sentence. Hey, now, that's a really nice dress.
No, that's not it. Hey, now.
It's really good to be here. No, see the hey now is not a.
That's so funny. Hey, now.
You say it again. Now, they've been friends since they were kids.
By the way, Larry has a. He also goes by Lawrence Earl Sanders for some reason.
Might as well. He's born in June 1969.
Larry. They've been friends since they were kids.
They've known each other for a long time. Larry was born in Blanchard, Oklahoma.
Larry's daughter, this is interesting, Laramie, he named his daughter Larry also pretty much. And Jimmy's son, Erin, are dating and in a serious relationship.
Wow. So it's pretty close.
We're about the same age you're right there, and I kind of want to put this in you. A little bit, and not a lot of people around here.
You want to go to Pickle Fest with me? Wow. Yeah, these two are dating, but that shows how close they are.
They've known each other since they were kids, and now their kids are dating, so they're close buddies, and they hang out. Larry, few issues with Larry here.
Number one is meth. That's his number one issue.
He's got some meth problems. What does that make you if your kid marries your best friend's kid? Does that make you brothers-in-law? No.
What is that? Dad is nothing. Nothing.
You're just the father of the bride. Our kids are married.
That's what that is. That doesn't make you anything, right? You're that, you're friends' kids' father-in-law now.
Now we're friends-in-law. Yeah.
I mean, that makes you hang out during Christmas probably. But that doesn't make you anything, right? No.
No. Buddies-in-law.
Yeah, pals-in-law. Fish and buds-in-law.
So Larry's got a few issues, like I'm saying here. He.
He loves meth. He started using weed a little bit in high school like a lot of people do but he went right to meth pretty quick though.
Wow. Yeah he was in by the time he was about 20 he was into the meth.
Yeah he was a meth guy all along I think. Yeah then he always has weed as like his base but he sprinkles periods of a lot of meth use in there also.
Yeah. You know, you got to put it on there like a, like a, sometimes you got a walnut on a Sunday.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's one of those deals. So he used that all the way from like 1990 to night to 2004.
And then he really picked up after that. And he was like, I like this meth.
I got to get into that from 2004 until 2022. When all this is happening, by the way, the kids are dating and all that kind of thing, he's using at least three times a week.
18 years. Of constant three-time-a-week meth use.
And if he says three times a week, it's probably five. Yeah.
Or five days a week, anyway. He has a pretty good criminal record, Larry.
He's been to prison a couple times for assaults and thefts and, you know, meth stuff. Jimmy overlooks it.
Stuff for meth. Yeah, well, I mean, it's his buddy.
What's he going to do? You know what I mean? And I think the kid's nice, so it's not the kid's fault. He was arrested for hunting with the aid of a motor-driven conveyance.
So, shooting shit out your window is what that is. Or running them down.
Something.

That's not really hunting. I think that would be just, I don't think that would be considered

hunting, yeah. That's just slaughtering,

right? That is.

And I found out, by the way, they do have

these mounts

that go right on your car door.

That's so crazy. You can put a rifle on them.
You have to buy

them from Australia. I assume it's to

shoot an emu or something. Well, it's because your car seat's much more comfortable than a deer blind.
I suppose. But to the side, it doesn't look comfortable.
Plus, if it runs this way, you're really shit out of luck at that point. There's not a lot.
Runs around the front of the truck. Yeah, that's a, hey, you come back here, goddammit.
Get back in my sight. So, yeah, he gets that.
He has a problem with spotlighting and headlighting, which I think is the same thing. I think he was putting a headlight on a deer so it would stay still and then shoot it out the window.
That's fucked up. Yeah.
That's why it's a crime. That's cheating.
It's not really sporting at that point. No.
So he was put on probation for five years for bringing meth into the county jail in 2019.

He got arrested for public intoxication.

When they searched him, they didn't find it, and he didn't say he had it.

And then once you get to the jail-

Now you're in trouble.

That's why they ask you.

If you have anything, you have to tell me now, because if you get to the jail, it's an extra charge.

Right.

And this guy was like, I'm good.

They ain't going to find it.

Well, he's also shit-faced, public intoxication.

And in Oklahoma, I feel like you really got to be hammered. Because if you're just on beers they're gonna be like oh yeah he just had some beer this guy fucked up people in oklahoma oh yeah yeah they yell boomer sooner at your shows over and over we've been there he had to um he told a county deputy at the time of his arrest that he quote used a little meth to get him going in the mornings.

Oh.

Yeah, you know.

Some people like coffee or orange juice.

Fultures stopped working.

And he was like, no, I don't think so here.

Filled up a tolerance to the Pete's coffee.

You know what I like?

Meth.

I mean, Starbucks has that one that really is like a hardcore.

This is reliable as fuck.

He moved from coffee to espresso, and then there's got to be a more efficient way to do this. I know.
Meth. Yeah.
I can't smoke coffee. Yeah.
So as of July 2022, Jimmy is operating his frame and body shop in Ada, and he actually decides to hire Larry. Really? Which seems like a weird thing to do.
I'm going to hire my meth addict friend. Yeah.
I mean, he could be good, but I feel like that's like tools are going to come up missing. Yeah.
If you've got a meth addict around, it's only a matter of time before they're probably going to start fucking up. Yeah.
Where's the slide hammer? Oh, I don't know. I don't know.
Shit. Check the pawn shop.
Jesus Christ. Is that sure nobody broke in here or nothing? This is crazy.
So he said, okay, I'll hire you. Yeah.
I guess he needs work and he's his, you know, son's girlfriend's father and he's his friend since high school. So he's like, fuck it.
It's a good guy to hire to tear shit down though. He might be good.
I don't know. You know, who knows? So either way, Larry is supposed to start working for Jimmy on July 11th, 2022.

Correct.

That's a Monday.

Yeah.

So before that, though, that's July 11th on Monday's work.

They got a weekend ahead of them.

You bet.

And they're going to go out noodling that weekend.

Yeah.

Going noodling.

Now, if you don't know what noodling is.

It's not head chef at the Olive Garden.

No, it is not noodling.

It's not that.

It is crazy.

No, it's crazy. I would rather work at the Olive Garden than do this and that's saying something it's a wild choice it's fucking crazy if you've never seen it hillbillies go into the water and stick their arm in a big fucking hole and hope yeah that a giant fish bites them fingers crossed it's a fish there you pull it right out of there who fucking whose idea i idea, I don't got money for VASPRO.
That's all right. You got arms.
Just stick it on in there. Well, how are you going to get the ones that are there in the earth? I go fishing.
That's just in the water. What if the ones have burrowed themselves deep into the earth? How am I supposed to get them? Stink bait ain't working.
You just stick my arm in there and hope it latches on i suppose those fish that are that big would take bait that's fucking giant anyway and you can't if you don't have a pole and don't have a cow how would i yeah yeah you know like a lake placid situation you don't want to use your baby that's a giant mouth on that fish. Yeah, but you can, I mean, even like in the ocean,

you catch a big giant fish on one little hunk of fish.

But it's a matter of having a line that's strong enough

and a hook that's big enough and all that kind of shit.

And usually, too, if you're in like a pond,

the fish that you're going to catch out in the water

is a way different tackle and line.

Probably a bigger test on this arm. I would would think so fucking stick my forearm piece of string yeah get me some invisible damn string unbelievable so they start uh that's that's how they're going they're going noodling on july night just handing throwing their hand down a hole jimmy asked larry if you want to go noodling and larry said i mean i'm a fucking alcoholic method of course i want to go noodling of course i, I mean, I'm a fucking alcoholic meth head.
Of course I want to go noodling.

Of course I want to stick my arm in a hole

and let a fucking monster latch on to it.

Obviously. They are monsters.
Duh.

Yeah. So, yeah.
Jimmy

is real good at noodling, too. There's all sorts of

pictures of Jimmy with his son with these

fucking massive, these massive

catfish. They're huge.
Because that's

what it is. That's the fish that we're looking

for. They bury themselves in the

fucking dirt there. There's not a trout.

No, that's where they lay eggs and shit in there, right? I think that's what they're doing in there. So that's why they're pissy when you come in, too, I think.
While they'll bite you. Yeah, that's why they bite you, and that's what you want for some reason.
Some of these fuckers have videos where they have, like, blood streaming down their arm, because these things are... They have ridges in in those lips not only that also in the in the hole you're sticking in there's little rocks sticking out i mean it's not a perfectly smooth mud hole i mean you're gonna and then you're wrestling with this thing there's a lot going on and you can't see shit no you're just you're you gotta have to visual back you're looking up at the sky like feeling around for the bolt under the fucking oil pan changing the oil imagine examining a prostate but from another room like through a glory hole imagine that that's closing your eyes and just hoping that i think hold on back up further into it like that's basically what you're doing i think you're too deep Yeah, you are.
That's not the prostate. Fishing for prostates at this point.

So Larry said that before going noodling, that Jimmy had a phone call with someone. Okay.
Now, Larry, keep in mind, he's been doing meth a long time. This is like 30 plus years of meth use.
Right. Which will make your brain into fucking tapioca pudding at some point.
Chemical resin. It's not good.
It's not good. Just some rural Oklahoma fucking home meth.
It's not homebrew. If you cracked your head open it'd smell like epoxy in there.
It's not good. Jesus.
It's not good. Epoxy and caulk.
Caulking. Why does it smell like caulk in here? Yeah.
What did you think it cock yeah sour chemical no no yeah caulk from your wall so jimmy had a phone call with someone larry didn't know who and walked away from larry yeah to talk on the phone you know like people do because it's rude to yeah well it's also rude to just yeah i'm gonna have this conversation with someone else in front of you. You go walk away and do your thing.
Now, Larry said that Jimmy, though, would occasionally look over his shoulder. Okay.
Yeah. See, both of us are like, and? Yep.
But Larry didn't say and. Larry said, you motherfucker.
Suspicious as shit. Yep.

That made him real suspicious.

He's like, what's he doing?

What are they planning?

He's planning something against me.

That's what it is.

He's plotting.

Okay.

So they stopped at the Merriman Country Store in Allen to get some beer around lunchtime

on July 9th, 2022, a few hours before they go fishing.

You got to get supplies.

Beer's the first one.

Yeah. You don't need bait or anything.ures you got your got my arm all right that's one arm to stick in a hole my other arm needs a beer that's how that works boom and boom cup holding arm yeah i feel like that you got to get some liquid courage and you just just be like i'm not doing that sober fuck no no way no way i want meth and beer if i and beer if I'm going to do that, and I don't like either one of them.

I like beer, but not meth.

Hey, everybody.

Just going to take a quick break from the show to give you a better way to shop for awesome stuff at Quince.

Quince.com.

Q-U-I-N-C-E.com.

Yeah, you don't need to drop a fortune on things that don't need to be that expensive.

Quince has all the good stuff, the high-quality fabrics, classic fits, lightweight layers for the warm weather that we're all seeing now, all at prices that actually make sense. Everything we've ordered from Quince has been nothing but good.
It's just good stuff. Love it.
I know you've got a linen shirt to go with your linen pants. Oh, to go with those pants? I got some nice shirts.
I got a cool pair of pants that I'm going to wear on stage.

I like it.

Quince has the closet staples you'll want to reach for over and over,

like cozy cashmere and cotton sweaters from just $50.

That's awesome.

Breathable flow knit polos, comfortable lightweight pants like linen ones that Jimmy has.

And somehow it works forever.

You can get things that work for weekends, for work, for everything. They have it all here.
The best part of this, too, everything with Quince is half the cost of similar brands. They work directly with top artisans.
They cut out the middlemen. Quince gives you luxury pieces without the markup.
And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics. They've taken us to the next level of fashion,

getting some real good stuff, and the prices, I love them.

Keep it classic and cool with long-lasting staples from Quince.

Go to quince.com slash smalltownmurder for free shipping on your order

and 365-day returns.

That's quince.com slash smalltownmurder

to get free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash smalltownmurder.
Now back to the show. This show, Small Town Murder, is sponsored by BetterHelp.
Betterhelp.com. Absolutely.
You ever feel overwhelmed? How do you not? All the time. It happens and it impacts your decision making is the problem.
Feels like there's advice for everything. You can go online and they'll be like, oh yeah, do a cold plunge.
That'll solve everything. Sure.
You know, do a screen detox, but you don't know it's going to work for you. That's the thing.
You're just picking up weird stuff off the internet and it's overload about mental health and wellness and it makes you even more freaked out. That's the problem.
Using trusted resources and talking to live therapists can get you personalized recommendations and help you break through all this noise. Find out what actually helps.
Never mind what somebody's posted on social media and everything like that. Therapy's great.
You're going to get a benefit from therapy. You are.
It's going to help you in your life in so many ways. Just to get your head together to feel better, it's the start.
I'm telling you right now. And BetterHelp is a great place to do that.
With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works.
The App Store rating is 4.9 out of 5, based on over 1.7 million reviews. That's good stuff.
And it's convenient, too. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life.
And best part, coolest part, you can switch therapists at any time, no additional cost. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse range of expertise.
Talk it out with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash smalltownmurder.
That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash smalltownmurder. Now back to the show.
The idea of just a black hole full of filth water and you're just going to jam your hand in there. It's all like mud water too in there.
Gross. You're out of your mind.
You have to feel around for a hole and then put it in and hope there's no snapping turtles in there too. Yeah, hope it's that and not a gator.
Who the hell? Yeah, who knows? I don't think there's gators. It could be anything.
People do it in Florida. yeah but that's florida too you have to understand that's sometimes you get a gator yeah and you get new boots and then you know sometimes you get a gator and you get a new prosthetic that week that's all right you get a prosthetic and a belt same day not bad i don't think you're getting the gator if it takes your arm yeah i got another arm Yeah.
So there's a woman there named Rochelle Spray, and she's the cashier and cook at the country store here. She said that Larry appeared to be under the influence of something by lunchtime.
Yeah, a little meth to get him going in the morning. You know what I mean? He was looking around the store, and this was so much.
These two came in together, Jimmy andry but larry was acting so squirrely that the employees actually talked to jimmy and they were like he's acting weird you should keep an eye on him your pal's nuts that's think about how nuts you have to act to go to the person he's with and be like i'm worried for your safety like you should keep an eye on he's crazy he may have done this gradually and you haven't noticed but sight unseen and now he's behaving like this this isn't normal this isn't normal she recalled that jimmy just quote just kind of giggled about it you know because that's larry oh that's all larry meth mouth don't worry about him he's been acting like that since that's my buddy-in-law i've known him a while he's been acting like that since the first Bush administration. We ain't real worried about it.
It's fine. So they're heading to the South Canadian River.
That is in Oklahoma. Extreme South Canadian River.
Very much South Toronto here. So they go there to fish, and then when they're done fishing, Larry just comes home.
No. But he doesn't have Jimmy.
No. No.
All by himself. All by himself.
Yeah. And Laramie and Aaron were there.
Uh-huh. And they were like, how's it going? How was noodling? Yeah.
It was fine. Where's Jimmy? Yeah.
I don't know. I don't know.
Yeah. So they're just there.
They were all at Jimmy's house. And returned from the river with Jimmy's pickup truck.
Oh, which is a weirder. Yeah.
He pulled any of your dad's not here, though. And Arian said, I said, where's my dad? And he said, quote, he's not coming back.
Details, maybe he got a big one. A little suspect.
He's stuck in a hole. He was pulled into a hole.

He went noodling and he got noodled.

We're going to chalk one up to the catfish today.

Sucked him like spaghetti.

Sucked him all the way in.

At the Olive Garden where I'm a noodle chef.

Bottomless Jimmy.

Bottomless Jimmy.

That's what's going on down there.

So anyway, that is what's happening here. So they're obviously a little freaked out by that.
He's not

coming back. Why?

So they don't understand it.

They call the police because they're like,

we got to find our dad.

All he'll say is he's not coming back.

So we got to get to the bottom of this.

So they arrest Larry on an

outstanding warrant

because he's obviously got outstanding warrants. He's a fucking 30 year meth addict.
He's got a warrant for something at some point. So at that point, apparently he told his daughter that he killed Jimmy also.
So that's interesting. He tells Laramie about that.
So the sheriff who arrested Larry on the warrant said that he, quote, seemed to be under the

influence of illegal drugs.

Seemed to be.

Seemed to be.

He's also just, you know, Larry's always under the influence.

Yeah.

Now, the funny thing is, is his outstanding warrants were for unpaid fines.

Oh, he just doesn't pay shit.

That's it.

They said, here's from the report when they arrested him.

Sanders appeared to be under the influence of an illegal drug.

And when asked what was going on, he was unable to give an accurate story and was all over the place. I asked if he had gone to the river with Jimmy and he did state he did.
That's how the guy wrote it in the report. He did state he did.
Wow. He did state he did.
Wow, that's confusing. Very alien.
Very. Yeah.
What. And he stayed it.
He did stay it. He did.

Wow, that's confusing.

You're an alien.

Very.

Yeah.

What planet are you from?

Just write like a human being.

So we understand.

I hate when they write reports like that.

Take it easy, Yoda.

Christ.

Yeah.

What are you trying to do?

I asked what happened, and he, again, was jerking around and couldn't stand still and would, quote, go off about other topics. So just.
Changing the subject. Yeah, doesn't care.
You know, meth. Try to pin a meth head down on something.
Just anything. Have a conversation.
It could be anything. Do you like Skittles or the Magna Carta? You could discuss either one, and it's going to have an equally weird conversation.
Now and laters are going to come up. Exactly.
When you're talking about the Magna Carta, not even Skittles. That's the other thing.
It's real weird shit. Yeah.
The banana laffy taffy is great. That's good.
Okay. So in 15, you know, what are we talking about? So, yeah, he said he did state during the middle of his tangent that someone was dead and that he had killed someone so in all this a goddamn magna

car down later the fucking sons of the bitch and goddamn snickers bars have too many peanuts by the way i killed someone these motherfucking milky way have no peanuts but they have too many peanuts what do i do holy so this guy at that point stopped asking him questions because he's not a homicide detective and he's like oh i don't want to hear anymore about this admitted to murder Yeah, I'm going to shut the fuck up so this is not non-admissible.

So July 10th, 2022.

All right. detective and he's like oh i don't want to hear anymore about this admitted to murder yeah i'm gonna shut the fuck up so this is not non-admissible so july 10th 2022 all right the oklahoma bureau of state bureau of investigation responds to a request for assistance from the sheriff's office here regarding a possible homicide like we got a crazy son of a bitch over here we got magna carta man yeah you should probably talk to probably talk to him.
Committing to murder. We don't know what.
I don't know what murder. It's on you.
So now what ends up happening is witnesses that were around that day, around the river, they found some witnesses. They, because Larry had talked to some people, witnesses will say that Larry said that he thought Jimmy was trying to kill him so he could quote sacrifice him to Bigfoot to Bigfoot that's what he was running around telling people how much meth do you have to be on it's going to be sacrificed to a Bigfoot not To the Bigfoot.
Yeah. Not just a Bigfoot, too.
Apparently, as a whole, we'll talk about the whole family of Bigfoot. Yeah.
It's feet, whatever, whatever you want to put it. It's weird.
Wow. So, Larry said, because they talked to Larry, and he decides he's going to talk.
He doesn't care. Yeah.
This has happened. This is some shit people need to know about.
Right. You've got to watch out for the Bigfoot out there, he believes in them or does he oh i don't know if he believed in them before he did meth that day but you get him on enough meth he's believes in bigfoot wow it is not only believes in that yeah thinks that people can plot with bigfoot did they nail him down on that it's an actual being? Oh, here it is.
Okay. He said that after he and Jimmy parked near the river, Jimmy left to go down to the river and didn't take any water with him, just a beer.
Which is just kind of. That's fishing.
That's just kind of fishing behavior. Yeah, it's people who've already had a couple of beers and they're done with water now.
Yeah. So Larry thought it was odd that he didn't take any water because it was super hot out.
Uh-huh. He was like, that's weird.
That's the number one ingredient in beer. There you go.
Water. Also, I would immediately assume that if someone didn't take water, there must be some Bigfoot conspiracy.
Yeah. That's the first thing I would think of, honestly.
He doesn't have any water. I bet Bigfoot's got water for him down there.
So Larry said that he grabbed some water and sports drinks from a cooler. And then when he was ready to go to the water, Jimmy was already about a quarter mile away from him.
Okay. Damn, he's moving.
This is the other. This is amazing.
Now, I don't know if I've never done meth So, I feel like meth might screw with your internal clock. Yeah, really just all substances.
You know, yeah, yeah. I feel like meth might really like, because it speeds you up, so maybe something that you thought was an hour was really five minutes, or the other way around, I don't know.
Just like the hand of God comes down and just spins the dial and walks away. Yeah, walks away, and also spins you around a bunch of times, like before you pin the tail the donkey and you're walking around poking your grandma on the tit with a fucking with a donkey tail it's 3 30 it's so weird so yeah he said that he was already about a quarter mile away which he thought was strange because he didn't think that jimmy had enough time to get that far away he sat and contemplated he sat jimmy did some magical shit to get a quarter mile away or just teleported he can teleport but he's just going to do it to get to the river further not to get out of this area and you know go wherever the i don't know wherever you want to go so he didn't think he had that much time so larry said that an area of rocks where there are the way he put it american indian carvings.
And he said, wow, he indicated that he felt uncomfortable because he didn't want to disrespect the area, which he felt was sacred. He's got a lot of different thoughts swirling.
Your friend can teleport. Let's not worry about carvings at this point.
Let's worry about that. Also, those are generally protected.
They've got fences and stuff around them. I mean i don't know just let you walk up and touch them maybe in oklahoma there's so many of them they're just willy-nilly they don't care or it says tom loves jenny and he's like damn the natives had our names he goes native love is beautiful it's beautiful these people a simpler time they really the choctaw had great names.
Oh, man, that's wonderful. Damn that Andrew Jackson.
Taking them away from here. Choctaw had traditional names.
You know. So Larry described that there was a tin horn above the rocks, which he said there was no reason for it to be there if it had no purpose to be there.
But it's there anyway. A tin horn.
Like blow through. Okay.
Larry then described seeing a man who appeared to be a National Guardsman. Yeah.
Okay, now this is from 50 to 100 yards away. So whatever uniform it is, I don't know how the fuck you can identify it from 75 yards away.
I don't even know what it looks like if it was standing next to me. That's what I mean.
There's a National Guardsman. All right, sure.
Looks like a soldier to me. He said the man was dressed in military fatigues, which means why National Guardsman did you pull out of your ass? But he said it was a National Guardsman.
He was about 50 to 100 yards away down the river. So now he's looking around.
His buddy teleported. There's a tin horn that don't belong there.
Tom loves Jenny. And now we got an army man, too, down the river so now he's looking around his buddy teleported yeah there's a tin horn that don't belong there tom loves jenny yeah and now we got an army man too down here so real suspicious and he doesn't want no water did he like things are getting weird glitch out like the you know what i mean when you to get to where he was real fast maybe you know what i'm anything's possible you'd have to go i'm on drugs that's what i'm saying how do you you've done meth for how do you do yeah his brain is so fucked up yeah by this point that he doesn't even have he doesn't go i'm on drugs right like i've been on acid when i was a teenager and went you're on acid you did this on purpose chill out everything's fine you like this this is why you paid $5 for this.

You know what I'm saying?

Whereas if my brain was completely warped, I might not be able to put those thoughts together. You paid $5.
You paid $5 for this privilege. Unbelievable.
So anyway, he said that at that point, oh my God, after all this stuff, he takes stock. He said that Jimmy was at the top of the rocks, and then Jimmy howled while standing close to the tin horn.
Not into the tin horn, but howled. A big howl for some reason.
A big call. Which Larry described as Jimmy, quote, just a wailing lungful of air.
You know, a howl. The call of the wild.
The call of the wild. So Larry indicated at that point he was scared of what was going on.
What's he calling for? Well, that's what I mean. Who's he summoning? He said that, why would Jimmy do something like that? So he's like, I don't understand it.
So Larry crossed the current of the river and got back on the sand on the other side. So Larry said that at that point, Jimmy got back in the water near a pipe of some sort.
Yeah. And Jimmy told him that there's fish in it, in the pipe of some sort.
There's fish in here. Yeah.
Stick your arm in and let's grab it. They're noodling.
So at that point, you just go, okay, there's fish. That's what we're here for.
Or do you just assume it's a conspiracy? Now, Larry says at that point, Larry looked and saw a black creature, a Sasquatch. Yeah, there it is.
There it is. 12 feet tall.
12 feet tall. A 12-foot-tall Sasquatch, 45 to 50 yards away.
This is my favorite part, quote, with its toe in the water. Just one.
Doesn't like when it's too cold. It's testing it.
It's testing it out, making sure. Bigfoot is picky when it comes to water temperature.
He likes it nice and warm if he's going to take a little bath. If you see something that feels weird, say it out loud in your head.
that's a 12 foot high sasquatch but when you're methy you're like yes that's there's a 12 foot high sasquatch with his toe in the water no there isn't no there isn't is that near the army guy or is that on the other side by the way is are they in cahoots just say it out loud man is bigfoot in cahoots with the government in some way is that what's going on here what kind of conspiracy we have so he said that the creature's face was obscured by some leaves on an oak tree limb because it's 12 feet up there yeah yeah but still he was there uh-huh when asked if he told jimmy about the creature did you warn your buddy tell your buddy yeah he replied quote i'm he was aware of it. He called him.
Wouldn't you go Bigfoot and run as far as you can in the other direction? Like real fast? I don't know how fast those things are. Get in the water.
He's scared of it. He's only got his toe in it.
He's dipping his toe in there. He doesn't swim well.
He believed, he said, at this point, that's why Jimmy yelled by the tin horn was to summon the Bigfoot. Yeah, he called him.
He knows how to do it, obviously. He speaks it.
Talk about a wildlife expert. Oh, boy, he's fluent.
Summon Bigfoot. Yeah.
So Larry explained that he saw two other creatures, also Sasquatches, of course. Oh, the fam.
Yeah, I mean, they don't travel alone. It's dangerous.
That's what I mean. That's what I'm saying.
Someone will noodle you right out of there. Sasquatch, we're going Squatch noodling.
So, he said they were further up the hill behind the rocks. He said one was dark red and the other was brown.
Recessive genes. Yeah, so he got a black Bigfoot, a brown Bigfoot, a dark red Bigfoot.
Yeah, a nice Irish Bigfoot there. He's doing well.
He's got all colors. So three Bigfeet in total we have here.
Plural. Plural.
Bigfeet. So Larry believed that all of this, now this is when he started putting it all together.
Bigfoot, military guy, howling, other Bigfoot, more Bigfoot.

It's an ambush.

He said the phone call that Jimmy made.

I don't know if he was calling.

Hey, what's up, Squatch?

Yeah, what's up, man?

We'll be out there a little while.

I'm going to set my boy up.

You'll hear me.

I'll howl for you.

Don't worry about it.

I'll do the yodel.

Yeah, I won't call you because I want to hear him to hear the ringer.

So go ahead and turn your ringer off or something. You can leave it at the cave.
What the fuck? So I don't know how a phone call would factor into summoning Bigfoot. I guess he called the National Guardsman to open the cage and let him out.
Let the Bigfoot out, maybe. He said, but the phone call, the man in the military fatigues, the howling, theling the tin horn the sasquatches and a bunch of other weird shit like him transporting teleporting a quarter mile in no time at all these are all part of what he called some sort of setup yeah shit whoa now that i say it out loud oh no he's still he's still on he's still in it.
He's still in the method. He's come down and he doesn't matter.
I think his brain is cooked, man. The epoxy's not working.
No, no. The caulk is running.
The epoxy caulk is running. It's running.
So imagine you are the cops sitting there listening to this. Yeah.
Really? Is that right, man? Three big feet, huh? And so was the military? Okay, so the military guy, that's all. This is all, okay.
We just want to make sure this is all one part of one big block. This is going to be a fun defense.
So it's all some sort of setup. Yeah.
So Larry said that there were other people on ATVs down by the river. Right.
And that Jimmy had started walking in that direction instead of walking toward his parked vehicle. Oh.
so obviously it's a conspiracy. Yeah.
Larry indicated that after he attempted several times to get Jimmy to turn around and head back to the truck, he became very suspicious of why he's walking in a different direction. Is he trying to lure me into some Bigfoot trap, obviously? So Larry at one point said he pushed Jimmy and told him, let's turn around and go to the truck.
Yeah. He said, because they were planning to go home and have a barbecue.
That's why the kids were there. They were going to have a- Going to fry up those nuts.
Yeah. Yeah.
They never know. So he said that Jimmy laughed it off and kept walking.
Okay. Because he was probably acting crazy and methy, and Jimmy was probably like, ah, it's all right, bud.

Don't worry.

Get in the truck.

Yeah, anyway.

So, Larry said at some point,

they turned around and walked back to the truck.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, this is, anyway, before that, though,

after he laughed,

Larry indicated at one point he picked up a willow switch,

so stick off a willow tree,

and struck Jimmy once or twice. Andimmy told him cut that out knock it off why are you hitting me with a stick that ain't right so then at some point they turn around and walk back toward the truck but after a what he called a long period which could be two minutes it could be three hours we'd have no fucking idea at this point his frame reference time is but it's all messed up larry asked jimmy where the truck was saying we should have already gotten to it what circuitous route are you taking me on yeah away from the truck this show small town murder is sponsored by better help better help.com absolutely you ever feel overwhelmed how do you know the time and it impacts your decision-making is the problem.
It feels like there's advice for everything. You can go online and they'll be like, oh, yeah, do a cold plunge.
That'll solve everything. Sure.
You know, do a screen detox, but you don't know what's going to work for you. That's the thing.
You're just picking up weird stuff off the Internet, and it's overload about mental health and wellness, and it makes you even more freaked out freaked out that's the problem using trusted resources and talking to live therapists can get you personalized recommendations and help you break through all this noise yeah find out what actually helps never mind what somebody's posted on social media and everything like that therapy's great you're gonna get a benefit from therapy you are it's gonna help you in your life in so many ways. Just to get your head together to feel better, it's the start, I'm telling you right now.
And BetterHelp is a great place to do that. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally.
And it works. The App Store rating is 4.9 out of 5, on over 1.7 million reviews.
That's good stuff and it's convenient too. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life and best part, coolest part, you can switch therapists at any time, no additional cost.
As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse range of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp.
Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash smalltownmurder. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash smalltownmurder.
Now back to the show. Hey, everybody.
Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you how to save some money with rocket money, rocket money.com. You know it.
Everybody knows there are things that they can do to reduce their monthly costs and improve their finances. We all have those things, but do you have time to go through everything you've ever spent and figure out where this dollar goes and that and what to trim? No, because then you wouldn't have time to make any of the money.
It would be crazy. Get Rocket Money to crunch those numbers for you, and they can level up your money game a little bit easier than you can.
I'm telling you now here. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills so you can grow your savings.
And they've worked for me. I found stuff that I was paying for for years, subscriptions.
So it's amazing. Their dashboard lays out your whole financial picture here, including bill due dates and pay dates in a way that's easy to digest.
You can even automatically create custom budgets based on your spending. They show you all your expenses in one place, including subscriptions you forgot about.
If you see a subscription you no longer want, Rocket Money will help you cancel it. They'll even try to negotiate lower bills for you.
You do not have time to wait on hold. Rocket Money does.
That's the good thing. The app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work to get you better deals.
They'll even talk to customer service for you. Wow.
That is amazing. Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all the app's premium features.
Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com slash smalltownmurder today.
That's rocketmoney.com slash smalltownmurder, rocketmoney.com slash smalltownmurder. Now back to the show.
From unsolved mysteries to unexplained phenomena, from comedy goal to relationship fails, Amazon Music's got the most ad-free top podcasts included with prime because the only thing that should interrupt your listening is well nothing download the amazon music app today he said larry then said that jimmy turned around and knocked him to the ground oh just started attacking him yeah jimmy did meanwhile he's laughing off crazy shit he's not attacking this guy so yeah jim larry said quote he attacked me okay so he said that they wrestled on the ground for quite some time and that jimmy had had larry in a choke hold on two occasions yeah must be not very good at it because he kept getting out of it.

Larry indicated at one

point while Jimmy had him in a choke hold

he put his hands

behind his head and attempted

to gouge Jimmy's eyes out.

Okay.

He had him choke so he reached behind

him and tried to gouge his eyes out.

Okay. Larry indicated that Jimmy

then let go of him and Larry then put put jimmy in a choke hold until jimmy quit moving see how you like it see how you like getting choked out so larry said that yeah he's doing that he said that um it's all about the sasquatches man they go why'd you do that he goes he was setting me up with the squatches so he choked him out yeah well he said that and they go why do you why would you do this and he said well this is what i think it was going on now obviously quarter law and everything y'all will figure it out but i think this is what's up he said that he thought jimmy had planned to drown him and then float his body down the river to the big foots to the sasquatch village so they can can eat him. Oh.
But the Bigfeet don't like to hunt like a tiger. They want a corpse pre-killed that they can just eat.
It's also a pain in the ass to carry it. So if you just float it, yeah, we'll get it.
Float it down, much easier. Yeah, we'll pick it on up.
That's what they do. That's how they get food.
Marinate it in the water. It's like an East Berlin food drop from the late 40s or something.
that's what they do float down the river that's how it goes he says all that then he says he sits back in the chair and goes that's the only thing that made sense what no that's the only thing that made sense okay everybody i just like to say this now don't do math guys i know if that makes sense to you holy shit i know it's cliche by now not to do meth but don't do meth remember reno 911 when he drew a thing this is your brain mike you see this he goes this here this is all see it was all scrambled up that's meth that's what it's doing to your brain right now that's what's happening to this. Holy fuck.
So, anyway, this is fucking crazy. Now, he said, yeah,

I... It was all scrambled up.
That's meth. That's what it's doing to your brain right now.
That's what's happening to this shit. Holy fuck.
So anyway, this is fucking crazy. Now, he said, yeah.
They said, describe the big feet again. He goes, biggest one was 12 feet tall.
He was black, red one, fucking brown. What do you want from me? Jesus Christ.
How many more times have I done it? Get out there and find them. They probably, they're part of this.
Wow. So he said, I kept him in a choke hold until he stopped breathing.
And he said, was doing this all the big feet were watching so this is like a performative thing like you know this is like your first day in prison i mean they could what do you want motherfuckers they're probably pretty happy we don't care which one just float one well he's no but yeah but they wanted larry because he's methy and they like that apparently they like that taste it gives it a little it's Crunchy. Extra, yeah.
wanted Larry because he's methy and they like that, apparently. They like the epoxy.
They like that taste. It gives it a little extra.
It's crunchy. Yeah.
So Larry said, yeah, I did that. The big feet watched.
He said then when he was dead, his friend was dead, he stood up and raised his hands up to, quote, show them he was the victor. Got to get big.
The big foot. You have to show them, look what I did.
I'm a winner. Yep.
Okay. Then he said that he pointed to Jimmy and yelled at the Bigfeet, quote, weak is evil.
Okay. I don't know what that means, but that's what he did.
Now they get it. So then he drew a map and provided directions that helped searchers find Jimmy's body, which is nice.
He did remember that. That's helpful.
The Oklahoman newspaper reported that Larry cooperated with police and drew the map and said, quote, they said later on the police, this area is very wooded and there's a lot of small brush and large trees. It was a difficult search to conduct and a large area to search because he didn't know exactly where it was.
I mean, also point towards the water and we'll find the footprints of these probably all over that yeah where were they yeah well they cover their tracks up they're smart big feet yeah as they go but they go back they walk backwards and cover them back up again like the kid in the shining when he's running from this jack nicholson in the snow he's gonna cover his track sand uh sand trap rake they all big feet have a sand trap rake. That's what they use.
Everyone knows that. Fixing divots.
So the police report says I love hearing this in police report lingo. Larry advised he believed Jimmy was trying to get away from him so that the Sasquatch could eat Larry.
This is in a fucking official document somewhere in a file. Larry would not let Jimmy get away.
Larry punched Jimmy and struck Jimmy with a stick. Larry and Jimmy fought for an extended amount of time on the ground.
Larry confirmed he killed Jimmy by choking him to death near the river. Larry even, so yeah, this is ridiculous.
So now Oklahoma, by the way, you might go, what the hell is going on here? Yeah. Oklahoma really wants Bigfoot to be real.
Yeah. That's the thing.
This is not helped by this. Okay.
An Oklahoma state in 2021. So the year previous to this, a dipshit in the state legislature introduced a bill to establish, quotefoot hunting season hey you have no problem the danger the state must be perfect if you have time to do that the state must all the schools are perfect the hospital the roads better be there is not a fucking pothole on your entire in your entire state it's all the kids kids have lunches and they're learning everything.
Your tornado alert system must be top notch. And you've built an underground city for people to go to when it's a tornado.
That's when you start worrying about Bigfoot hunting. There's a Nordstrom underground for people to shop and wait out the fucking...
Oklahoma people, this idiot is using your- You're paying for this. You're paying a man to do this.
It's crazy. That's a man that saw Pacific Northwest tourism based around Squatch and was like, we got to get- That's a billion dollar industry.
We got to get a chunk of that. Oh my.
So what the fuck? So you're making meth people think there's Big Feet. It's squash season.
So the bill would require hunting licenses and comes with a $25,000 reward for capture of Bigfoot. Ah.
The legislation was meant to increase tourism near the mountains here. And according to the Bigfoot Research Organization, the BRO, the bro, that makes a lot of sense.
There's been 106 Bigfoot sightings in Oklahoma. Or just real tall men hunting out there.
Tall people, 106 drunk people in Oklahoma, or people on meth. They probably cut down on tall people going out hunting, though.
If you're over 5'8", don't go hunting in Oklahoma. You stay home.
You're going to get shot at them. Or wear bright colored clothing, nothing dark.
Wear like yellow and orange and shit so people know that you're not a Bigfoot. Don't be in real training.
No, no, no, no. This guy's name is Rep.
Justin Humphrey, by the way. That's the asshole.
I don't know if he's still in charge of anything, but stop paying that guy for being idiot he said i have some people that i know that are good solid people this is the representative yeah that are good solid people who i will guarantee you 100 have said they have experience with bigfoot you know i that he just said i heard my friend whenever you say when if someone says i know people that have told me it's bullshit. 100% they've said it.
Where are they? What does that even mean? Where are they? That doesn't mean anything. That's what I mean.
100% they said it. He said I will guarantee they're solid people I will guarantee you and 100% that they have experience with Bigfoot.
So you're supposed to just believe it. That they said it.
Unbelievable. I believe they said it, Justin.
I read on the internet, there's Bigfoot, is what he just said. What a dipshit.
We are not promoting killing Bigfoot. We're promoting hunting Bigfoot.
What's the difference? Big difference. Is there? He said trying to find evidence of Bigfoot.
Okay. Okay.
Now, Laramie and Aaron here, they got to be like, what the fuck, man? Larry you, Laram me's got to feel bad terrible oh man my dad killed your dad yeah so she said that her dad told her that he killed jimmy for trying to feed him to bigfoot also so it's a consistent story he didn't just make this up and then he's sticking with he was telling his daughter right when it happened when he got home he's like he tried to feed me to a bigfoot. I had to do what I had to do.
Whoa. Yeah.
She said

that he was frantic and mentioned something

about strangling Jimmy and

quote, possibly firing two

shots from a pistol. That's another

avenue. Where'd that rank come from?

She also said,

yeah, she said that they admitted getting into a

fight over being fed to Bigfoot.

The police said, she said that

Larry said that him and Jimmy had been fighting on the ground for roughly an hour. Whoa.
His time is way off. He can't fight for an hour? In the heat outside, nobody has fought for an hour ever.
That's crazy. That's why Ricky Steamboat and Ric Flair in 89 fight for an hour.
That's why it's wrestling. In real life, there wouldn't be an hour-long fight.
That's insane. Someone's going down.
So that's how wrong his time is in his brain. And then mentioned something about strangling him, and they also said something about the two shots from a pistol.
She said that he kept going on and on about, quote, Bigfoot territory. Wow.
I was in Bigfoot territory. What do you want? Like they're a gang.
Yeah. That's where the bloods are.
Shit, I had to pack my heat. There was BF all over the – there was BFF.
There was Bigfoot foots. Oh, shit.
You can't have that. So the district judge rejects his motion for a speedy trial, saying prosecutors need plenty of time to review his psychological state, you know, because he's claiming that there's big feet involved.
Right. So his attorney gave notice that Larry will raise at trial the defense of mental illness or insanity at the time of the defense.
Which, I mean, if you're ever going to bring it up, it should be when you kill your friend because he was trying to feed you to Bigfoot. I feel like.
That's a good one. Yeah.
That's a good one right there. That's delusional.
That's swinging. He's seeing Bigfoot.
Like, that's, wow. He said, I guess it's not used a lot in Oklahoma.
Really? And a forensic psychologist who works in Oklahoma wrote for the, him and a former prosecutor wrote in the Oklahoma Bar Journal, which is a publication for lawyers,

the public believes that the insanity defense is used on a regular basis

when it actually is used in less than 1% of criminal cases.

Oh, wow.

You can't just say, I'm using the insanity defense.

The judge has to allow you to use that

because you have to have evidence of that that allows you to.

Otherwise, there's no...

And we're so familiar with it because those are the only ones that get publicized. Well, look, shit, they're usually the craziest cases.
You know what I mean? The ones are worth writing about. Totally.
And this guy will be testifying for the prosecution, the one that said that, though. Now, if he's found not guilty, he'll be sent for evaluation to a mental facility.
He could be kept there for the rest of his life. If guilty, obviously prison.
So there's a letter. Larry's attorney sent him a letter advising him of the need to meet with the psychologist and psychiatrist for the defense to help establish his case.
Very simple, straightforward. From your legal representative, here's a letter.
This is what you have to do. Very common in every criminal case there is.
Larry insists that it wasn't really his lawyer that sent him the letter, but instead it was an imposter. Oh.
You know, Bigfoot, probably, I assume, writing it. Bigfoot in a suit.
Bigfoot. Just picture Bigfoot writing a letter no no say this now new page

so in his letter he says

judge I received a letter and by the way this is in his

crazy meth-y hand writing

look at it

it's not straight

it goes up and down it's wavy

it's half capitalized

half not

it is part cursive part

giant ass commas

all messed up yeah it's commas

I'm sorry. It's half capitalized, half not.
That's awesome. It is part cursive, part fucking right.
Giant ass commas. All messed up.
Yeah, it's commas. There will be a pause here.
He may as well have written like a rest symbol from music. That is fucking crazy.
That's amazing. I received a letter at 4 a.m.
on 9-23-22, appearing to be from my attorney, Larry Ballarack. Upon viewing it, I, what is that? I'm prone.
I'm prone, that says. I'm prone to believe it's not from him.
You're a judge reading this. This is worse than getting Zara Boone letters.
This is incredible. He has told me in something that all that's to happen and who is to conduct these events.
The letter contradicts everything he said and misspellings and wordings are on the level of a third grade intellect. Attorney Balserak would not allow such work to be uh something bearing his name it would be an insult to everything he stands for he's all about grammar jimmy sure in the fuck information in it is not at all even close to what balserak and investigator josh that's a investigator job Investigator Josh Both personally told me, I can say with certainty some, what is this, strong belief that he did not write at all and has no knowledge of it.
That is a, knowledge is K-N-D-E-G-E, by the way, of it. On these findings, I cannot proceed with any court proceedings until I can confer with Mr.
Balserak in person. Sincerely, competently communicated, Larry Sanders.
Yeah, right. P.S.
Oh, you got a P.S. The false document or letter from my attorney to me, no actual bearing on court proceedings, requires no filing with the court also by logic wow logic with a d yeah l-o-d-g-i-c by and they're saying that he's complaining the lawyer was misspelling words they're probably spelled correctly he just doesn't know how to read it logic has a d in it stupid you ain't my lawyer are you fucking kidding me why is there an l in knowledge that's ridiculous i won't have it no okay um by logic of reason and and common sense almost any would almost anyone that wrote that down would rightly assume that to have a jury determine a professional's findings to have mental health forensics examiner.
Page three for the PS. This is why.
PS is longer than the letter. He writes this on like a square of toilet paper to the way it's written, like, which is not the agency that Balserak told me in person would be doing the competency test.
We would, what the hell, would hold a fair degree of psychological, what the fuck word is that? Psychological or. Mental, I don't know what he's talking about.
Psychological or. Psychological or.
Wow. This is when it really, it's all curved to the right.
He really lost it. He's really getting lazy now.
Finding of his mind is unraveling. Test results to have the jury members with the knowledge having to decide the results is completely, I got to turn my head, incompetent in his self.
Furthermore, Balserak would not bother filing a letter. Page four.
he told i don't even know what sentence that line is on is this one or this one necessary not even close information that necessary is a hard one that's one i've always had a problem i don't know why there's always a word your brain doesn't like, and that's necessary. C's and S's doing the same thing.

But there's no C's at all in this one, so I know it's not right.

It's all S's. It is an insult to the intelligence of anyone involved.
You're saying you killed a guy because he was sacrificing you to Bigfoot. You're talking about insulting intelligence? especially the less than intellectually capable imposter who wrote up this fake of a supposedly legal logistical file.
Joke. Joke.
Joke of a logistical. Joke of a supposed to be legal some shit.
I don't know. The entire four-page letter confers only two issues relevant to anything.
One of them is not even correct to what Balserak has done. This is amazing.
It's a poor attempt to appear like a legitimate letter from my attorney. This is the P.S.
Yeah, it's on his letterhead and everything, but that doesn't mean shit. Actually, in reality, it's illegal fraudulent criminal act against the law in every way.
Communication of this has been made with the outside family members capable of overseeing the prosecuting. Nope, that's not how you spell that.

That's not where an eye goes.

Of the responsible party.

With all due respect and honesty.

He signed it twice.

He did.

He signed the letter, PS'd it, and then signed the PS.

Because he realized, fuck, I just wrote another letter.

Oh, my God.

We also have his commissary items.

He bought boxer shorts, white socks, ramen picante chicken soup. Picante.
Not bad. It has some flavor.
Beef ramen soup, honey bun glazed, nutty bars. Those are good.
Those are fucking good. Chocolate cream cookies.
He likes his junk food. This guy.
Sure does. Cheese and peanut butter crackers, saltine crackers, all energy trail mix, beef summer sausage, five ounces.
He is legit loaded. Fruit punch mix single, cherry mix drink single, sun-kissed grape singles, Lay's classic one ounce.
All of that's $60. That's $60? $60, brother.
Boy, is there a fucking markup. Oh, man.
And more nutty bars and more. He reordered a bunch of food.
Now, the trial, he waives his right to a jury trial. He goes, they won't understand.
The judge, he'll understand. He'll get it.
He's all dressed in black up there like a Sasquatch. He'll know what's going on.
So during the openings here, the prosecutor described Jimmy as a, quote, good old country boy who went fishing with his friend at the river and never came back. Larry Belserac, the real one, not this imposter attorney, contends he did not form, Larry did not form an intent to kill because he's delusional and crazy.
Laramie and Aaron testify that he came home and told him what happened and said he's not coming back. Other witnesses also testified here that during one day of testimony,

they testified that Larry is a user of drugs,

including meth,

and that the Bigfoot rhetoric was more...

Apparently, this wasn't new.

This didn't come up.

Lately, he's been talking about Bigfoot all the time.

He's been on a kick.

Yeah, and they said that it really gears up

when he's under the influence of meth.

That's when he really starts talking about Bigfoot.

Whoa. Not really interested in Bigfoot until the meth kicks in.
Then he's like, these Bigfeet are out to get us, man. My uncle talked about the Hale-Bopp comet, but when he got drunk, it was all about Hale-Bopp.
That's what I'm saying. It locks in.
It locks people in. He said, I don't recall specifically if he said that he...
By the way, did you get his Nikes afterwards? No? I didn't get shit. Nah, son of a bitch.
He died under a tree. You didn't get those 96 Air Maxes or whatever they were.
He wasn't wearing anything. Oh, shit.
So the detective testified, I don't recall specifically if he said he had seen them in the past, but I do know that he said he saw them this instance for certain. Yeah.
The agent also testified that Sanders believed that the creatures were descendants of Native Americans. Oh.
He's got a theory of where they come from. Yeah.
Descendants of Native Americans who had been forced out of their tribes and into the woods long ago. So they like breeded with a woods creature and formed some super Bigfoot thing.
I don't know what's going on. The state prosecutor said that he's a forensic psychologist, and he said that he concluded Larry cannot be considered insane under Oklahoma law.
No? It seems like that's pretty crazy. Bigfoot's not crazy enough.
His defense, his sister, Ginger Skipper is her name, will say that Larry had run out of his mental health medications in April or May of 2022. So he's been off his meds.
Okay. She had attempted to get a refill, but was told that he had to meet with a doctor to get another refill.
So he just said, fuck it. And he's been off his meds for three months.
Off his meds on the meth. He testifies.
Oh, yeah. Awesome.
He takes the stand in his own defense. Yeah.
Although, but right before he took the stand, he attempted to fire Larry Balserak, but they didn't let him. He indicated he didn't feel Larry was representing him adequately.
He also insisted his lawyer should have emphasized further that he believed the investigation into this case was lacking in effort and was shabby. OK, OK, you know, not finding the big feet and asking them their opinion.
The judge ruled that he failed to provide a reason for firing his attorney and it continued. So Larry indicated that he and Jimmy were more like acquaintances rather than friends.
They've been hanging out for over 30 years. Your kids are sleeping together.
They hired him. They're more than acquaintances.
He said that Jimmy had offered him employment before July 9th and Larry said he would have started working for Jimmy the following Monday. He said he killed Jimmy because his friend—he said this on the stand.
Oh, my. I killed my friend because he summoned a Bigfoot tribe to eat me.
Duh. What would you have done? He also said—he said I was being set up for a sacrifice.
What the fuck, man? Oh, boy. He told an agent with the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation that he talked to that he talked to that watching the Big Foots after he killed his friend and said that weak is evil and that they reacted to that.
Okay, by the way, Jimmy's son is thrown out of court for making a seat, yelling at fucking Larry because he's pissed off. I don't blame him.
The defense shrink said that he's obviously suffering from serious psychosis from frequent methamphetamine use. His brain is all mushy.
They said he reported long drug-induced mood disorder and considered to have bipolar disorder and described his beliefs in Bigfoot as delusional, which is what you need to be crazy in court. They called it methamphetamine induced psychotic disorder.
Brain rot. Closing arguments here, the state said, I think we met the burden of proof here.
Yeah, he said it. He said it.
He's there. He was the aggressor and everything.
He hit him with a stick. So the defense said the state did not meet the burden of proof.
He said that Sanders' belief or non-belief in Bigfoot is not the point here. It's just not the point.
He said that it indicated long-term meth use made him have delusions. He said that the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation did a poor job on the investigation and the agency closed the books on the case as soon as he confessed.
So as soon as he had the murderer there who confessed to it, it all made sense. That's when they stopped looking for other suspects.
That's a really annoying defense. That's a fault on their part.
Wow. They said they should have considered, they should have tested under the fingernails of both men and that Larry should have been tested for intoxicant use after he was arrested.
The prosecution said the defendant admitted to everyone that he would listen to him that he killed Jimmy. He said he made sure Jimmy went out and he kept him in a chokehold

and didn't release him until Jimmy was turning blue.

He then said, I agree with Mr. Sanders.

There was a monster in the woods that day,

but it wasn't Bigfoot.

It was him.

Verdict, fucking guilty.

Very, yeah.

By the way, this is not the news broadcast you want.

Man kills friend for summoning Bigfoot

is a screenshot from the local news.

She does not look happy that she has to say it. She looks like she's saying fart right there, doesn't she? Fart.
So, yeah, they said you have to have malice forethought, which means you have to have specific intent to cause the death of another. They said we were able to prove that Larry caused the death and all this.
So Larry speaks during sentencing. Oh, boy.
He said he acted in self-defense. He blamed the guilty verdict on a higher power and ancient influences.
This is what he said on the stamp. He said the truth was ignored.
He told the judge that he would give him his left arm. I'd give my left arm if I could bring Jimmy back.
That's my noodling arm. See? It means a lot to me.
He also said Jimmy was a a victim of his own actions that's so wild that's his

defense that's nobody made you do meth man so then he said he then he interrupted as they were reading posts about him from twitter and during the sentencing and he said what does this have to do with anything this is bullshit i don't want to hear any of this this is ignorant ignorant yeah He then called the prosecutor a, quote, stupid bitch.

Was that a lady?

Yes, as deputies.

Oh, though. We're not making fun of that.
It's terrible. So the judge agreed he could come back.
Sanders said, fuck that. Take me to jail.
I don't want to hear the sentence. And they said options are life where you'd be eligible for parole in 30 years.
When he's 85, life without parole. They didn't seek the death penalty.
Oh, that's nice. So the judge says, you, sir, may fuck off life without.
Okay. Yeah.
So his appeal grounds are pretty ridiculous. Didn't get a speedy trial, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
He's there. There's a GoFundMe for Jimmy's family, by the way.
They put up, and it didn't raise a ton of money. So it'd be a nice thing if people could throw a couple bucks on that.
I don't know if it's still active or not, but they have kids and all that kind of shit. So in 2022, it might still be active.
It might still be active. So check that out.
Come see it. Watch out for Bigfoot everybody.
He's out there. Very quickly shut up and give me murder.com.
Get your tickets for live shows September, October, November, December. Get all those tickets right now.
Also definitely follow us on social media at smalltownmerger on Instagram. Smalltownbot on Facebook.
Definitely patreon. Slash Crime and Sports.
$5 a month or above.

Get you all the episodes this week for Crime and Sports, which you get.

Soccer riots.

Worst soccer riots.

Then for Small Town Murder, Joseph E. Duncan's, or Joseph Duncan III's crazy, fucking insane murder blogs.

We'll talk all about that and more.

And also, you get a shout out.

You bet.

The regular show.

So keep coming back and seeing us.

Shut up and give me murder.com if you want to follow us on social media.

Menus go everywhere.

Thank you so much, everybody.

The Mercedes Benzenz Dream Days are back with offers on vehicles like the 2025 E-Class,

CLE Coupe, C-Class, and EQE Sedan.

Hurry in now through July 31st.