#597 - Talkative Serial Killer - Kellogg, Idaho

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This week in Kellogg, Idaho, the finding of a murdered family leads detectives on a frantic hunt to save two remaining victims from a serial killer.

Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

Yay!

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy.

Yay, indeed.

My name is James Petrigallo.

I'm here with my co-host.

I'm Jimmy Wisman.

Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today.

We have some seriously crazy stuff for you today.

Great.

Absolute menace of an individual, a serial killer, and a bad, bad guy, one that slipped through the cracks for a long time.

It is scary stuff here.

So we will get to all of that.

Before we do, though, head over to shutupandgivememeurder.com.

Oh, what's over there?

All sorts of merchandise.

Number one, everything from skateboards to bath mats.

But you also get your tickets for live shows.

Get them for the remainder here because pretty much everything that's going to be there is going to be in the fall, September, and on.

And a lot of those are sold out.

And the ones that aren't are selling out fast.

Philly and D.C.

in December, selling out fast.

Get your tickets for Seattle because Portland's already sold out.

So get in there and get those tickets right now.

We're very excited for that.

That's shutupandgivememeurder.com.

Then also listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports, which trust us, you don't have to like sports to like this show.

No, no, no.

Not at all.

Some of the stuff, we did a 10-parter on Evil Can Evil.

We have a multi-parter on Randall Woodfield, the i5 killer coming up.

So a lot of good stuff there you want to check out.

And your stupid opinions, where we read the most annoying reviews on the internet and make fun of everybody for it.

So that's a lot of fun, too.

So you've listened to all that.

You still need to get Patreon.

Yeah.

Patreon.com/slash crime in sports, just like the name of our other show.

And you get that, anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get immediately upon subscription hundreds of back episodes you haven't heard before.

And then you binge on those new ones every other week, one crime in sports, one small-town murder, and you get them all, baby.

You get it all.

You get it all this week, what you're going to get for crime and sports.

We are going to do, we're going to talk about some of the worst soccer riots that have ever happened.

Oh, yeah,

that's a famous thing, soccer riots.

Really?

Oh, my God.

They collapse stadiums when they do it.

I've heard that.

It's crazy.

So we're going to talk talk about.

Oh, yeah.

We're going to talk about some of the worst soccer riots in history.

You don't have to like sports to know about that.

Oh, no, no, no.

And then for Small Town Murder, we are going to talk about the.

It's actually the killer this week.

We're going to talk about his blog.

He has a very extensive blog, and we're going to read from it because it is.

It's all the dip shit that puts his thoughts out there.

Oh, man.

It's fascinating.

He compares.

I can't even get into it now.

It's crazy stuff, and you got to hear it to believe it.

So there's that.

Patreon.com crimeinsports.

And you get a shout out at the end of the show as well.

That said, disclaimer time, it's a comedy show, everybody.

It's also a very real murder show.

Those two things are both true.

We are going to make jokes, but there is horrible murder and it's all completely real.

Nothing is made up for comedic effect or anything like that.

And you might go, well, how the hell do you mix those things together?

Real easily.

The way we do it is you never make fun of the victims or the victims' families.

Well, why is that, James?

Because we're assholes.

Yes, but we're not scumbags.

See how that works?

Plenty to make fun of, including the murderer, which is usually an ample target for humor to be picking on the guy.

So worthy.

It's a lot of fun.

So we'll check all that out.

So if that sounds good to you, you're going to hear a wild story.

For sure.

You think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together.

We might not be for you, but we might.

It might not be what you think.

We're not making fun of things that you might think we're making fun of.

That's right.

Try it.

It's good stuff.

Eat your broccoli.

And then when you're done with that, take a deep breath.

Here we go.

Arms to the sky.

And let's all shout.

Shut up

and give me

murder.

Let's do this, everybody.

Okay.

Let's go on a trip, shall we?

We are going to Idaho this week.

Oh, boy, Kellogg, Idaho.

K-E-L-L-O-G-G.

Just like the cereal.

Is it two G's in Kellogg's cereal?

It is?

Of course it is.

That's a strange thing.

I'm a cereal connoisseur, as you know.

Love cereal.

I have 20 boxes of cereal all the time.

Been eating cereal since I was a kid.

I stopped.

Must see that name 400 million times and never took in what the spelling of it is.

That's interesting.

Definitely two L's, two G's.

Interesting.

This is up in the northern part of Idaho.

This is Panhandle country up here.

Idaho Panhandle.

Yeah, it's near Cord-a-Lane.

It's about 40 minutes outside Corda Lane, this place.

Two hours to Missoula, Montana, the other direction.

Yeah.

Closer to that than most other stuff.

And then two hours and 40 minutes to Lewiston, Idaho, which was our last Idaho episode called The Incurably Crazy Killer.

That was the one where a man named Dump Truck beheads a co-worker.

And it's crazy stuff, man.

You got to hear that.

It was an express episode.

This is in Shoshone County, like the tribe, area code 208.

The motto here, and this is true, this is real, quote, founded by a jackass and inhabited by his descendants.

Is that right?

That's true.

The reason is Noah Kellogg, okay, the guy it's named after, his donkey alerted the prospector to a mountain outcropping of Galena, a lead ore often containing silver.

Sure.

So this was a big deal.

And then people came all the way.

This donkey started a mining rush up here.

Silver sniffing donkey?

He had a silver-sniffing donkey.

Wow.

Take him where the gold is.

Maybe you can do better than silver.

Why are you training to that dumb shit?

Yes, I don't think he trained him.

He was just, he's a natural.

That's amazing.

So a little bit of history.

Kellogg was incorporated in 1907.

The population in 1960 was 6,000 people.

It was a booming mining town.

And yeah, it became a center of silver mining, and there was a lot of silver being pumped out of here.

In May of 1972, the Sunshine Mine of Kellogg was the site of one of the worst mining accidents in U.S.

history.

It was a result.

There's a big fire that caused the deaths of 91 miners.

Oh, my.

91.

That is incredible.

Fires, Jay.

Eight.

Not just smoke.

Underground.

Burning to death in a hole in the ground.

Jesus.

Eight days after the fire started, when they figured everyone was dead, two men emerged from the mine.

Oh my God.

Can you imagine eight

days down there?

They were found on 4,800 feet, the 4,800-foot level of the mine near a fresh air source.

They happened to find some little

pocket where their fire didn't get them and there was fresh air.

It's amazing.

Everyone else died.

They beat the fuck out of the owner.

I know, you motherfucker.

No, they probably took them out back and shot him when they were done.

So they wouldn't tell anybody about it.

Yeah.

The Bunker Hill mine and smelter closed in 1981.

The yield started to wane.

That's what happened here.

Thousands lost their jobs and everything

kind of went away.

And also, the mining operations resulted in regional lead contamination of the water and soil as well.

Why not?

Yeah, that's all contaminated and fucked up there.

Kellogg has been developing as a resort town after that and trying to take advantage of skiing and shit like that.

Come see us.

Come ski over the 91 corpses of miners.

Yeah, it's a great mountain.

It's, you know.

Come ski over the 91 corpses of miners and get lead poison.

It's fun.

Don't drink the lead.

Five stars.

Here's a review or some reviews of this town because I don't know shit about this town.

Maybe it's great.

Five stars.

Kellogg is a great little town with lots of character.

There's so many surrounding towns as well.

The best thing here is that it's peaceful.

Not too many people as well as not a lot of hype.

Yeah.

I guess like other, well, some of the more popular ski locations are probably.

There's a lot of hype around Breckenridge and Chicago.

Yeah, yeah.

You're surrounded by the mountains and have very easy access to prime hunting areas, fishing spots, river access, lake access, and plenty of hiking trails.

Three stars, very small town, home to Dave Smith.

Dave Smith vehicles are everywhere.

Who the hell is Dave Smith?

I need more explanation.

I'm such a generic sounding man.

Dave Smith Motors, and he just owns like a Chevy and a GM or a Ford and owns all the dealerships.

You don't get a more nondescript sounding man than Dave Smith.

That tells you nothing.

It belies nothing about what he is or what he does.

Beautiful scenery, however.

So apparently they are taking two stars away because Dave Smith's cars are everywhere.

Fucking Dave and his car.

The hell.

And there's plenty of trails and rivers for the outdoors people.

And then one star.

Wow.

It is completely toxic.

And they don't mean that in a social way.

They mean that in a literal way.

The environment was deemed poisonous by the

EPA, having an entire school district of elementary-aged children listed with the highest blood levels in the world.

Blood, lead, lead.

Blood lead levels

in the world.

Yet they are not the only, yet they not only let people continue to live here, but now whatever is left alive today are the ones here, and they are severely underreported about the devastating and volatile effects of social capacities from lifelong toxins exposures.

Wow.

People here are thick in complete denial and loyalty to the cause of their toxic status, which is mining, is still going on strong and runs every inch of this place.

People here are sick in the worst kind of ways.

A ton of kept quiet abusive behavior from domestic violence to every age sexual assaults to suicides and homicides are through the roof.

This place is out of control.

According to that one person.

We don't know.

It might be fine.

I haven't looked up.

People raping and killing everybody.

just everybody beating the shit out of their wives and raping them uh population in this town 2255 so it was 6 000 in 1960 oh wow once the mines close nowhere to work um

few more females than males so that tells you how far away from the mining we really are because otherwise i'm sure in 1960 it was probably two-thirds male right because of the uh to the mining.

Median age is about 34, which is younger than the national average by a few years.

Lower married rate than normal.

It's about 43% married.

It's a little less of like a not really a move out here with your family type of place.

It's kind of a different type of place.

Race in this town: 91.2% white, 0.0% black, 0.0% Asian, 1.5% Native American, 2.5% Hispanic.

Religion here: 25% of the people here are religious, which is very low.

Oh, 50-50

national average.

And I'm looking around.

That's what I mean.

And this is like Lutheran takes it with the top spot with 5.8%.

So, I mean, it's

incredibly hodgepodge mixed bag.

Yeah, it's like 5.3% Mormon, 5.5% Catholic.

It's mixed around.

0.0% Jewish, though, that we are pretty sure of in Idaho.

The unemployment rate's a little bit high here.

It's about 7.5%, which is higher than the national average.

Median household income here, this is crazy.

National average, about $69,000.

Here, $35,658.

That is

the brokest Idaho town in the entire state, I guess.

It's got to be.

Wild.

That's why people don't have a ton of kids here, I guess, and aren't married.

They don't have any money here.

People can't afford to get married and have kids.

Cost of living, 100 is regular average.

Here, it's 77.

And the home cost is...

A big reason for that.

Median home cost here, $256,900, which is below the national average.

And if we've convinced you, damn it, you don't have enough lead in your bloodstream, we have for you, and you like to ski, we have for you the Kellogg, Idaho Real Estate Report.

Average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $860 a month.

So that is well below the national average, really low.

Here is a one-bedroom, one-bath, 580-square-foot house.

That's little.

That's not a house.

No, and when you you look at the house, it's not a house.

It's barely shelter.

Like,

it's barely shelter.

There's ceilings missing from rooms.

There's no ceilings.

With the partition for a room.

Dude, there's missing walls.

So never mind partitions.

It's wild.

There's missing floors and other shit.

Like this house, you need to knock it down and rebuild it.

And it says would make a great Airbnb.

Who the fuck is renting this?

You are going to be

$125,000 for that.

Maybe for like a like an escape room like you know a serial killer can pop out from the open ceiling or something and scare you and maybe that sort of thing it could work 125 grand is steep for that yeah here's a three bedroom two bath 1526 square foot house real weird it's like a a generic house like a suburban regular you know three bedroom two bath house but it's also a log cabin

it's

on the outside instead of siding there's logs but otherwise everything else is your standard,

it's a generic house here.

It's really weird, but it was built in 1910.

So

it's old school.

$299,000 for that.

Oh, my God.

Doesn't seem worth it.

And here's a four-bedroom, one-bath.

I assume it's one and a half usually when it's one.

It's usually there's another half somewhere.

One down?

Yeah.

Yeah, sometime for a listing, I guess, but it should be, you know, more than that.

2,116 square feet.

The outside looks like if you, like, if the wolf came, the pig shouldn't hide in there because he's going to blow it down.

It doesn't look good.

But the inside is fine.

It's really nice.

It's been redone.

They just didn't get to the outside at all.

So it's really weird.

Inside, fine.

Outside, looks like, I mean, nobody would rob you.

They'd be like, those people don't have shit.

$430,000 for that house, though.

Oh, my God.

Little pricey.

What is going on?

I don't know.

It's expensive up there, though.

That median home price shit was

off.

Things to do here.

Brews Fest.

Yeah.

You know what's going to happen there.

Craft offerings of breweries and cideries from the inland Northwest craft beer scene.

Chance to track down some local favorites that are only available in select tap rooms.

Oh, boy.

You get a ticket here.

Tickets include a scenic gondola ride, entry to the event, a tasting mug, and six drink tickets.

Dang.

You're going to be hammered.

Holy shit.

Additional drink tickets could be purchased at the event if you're not falling down drunk enough already after six.

Ticket prices.

Wow.

$45.95 are the tickets for this.

$45.95.

That seems steep.

It's steep, man.

That is a lot.

There's a combo ticket that includes mountain biking for the day.

Who says I want to have six beers and then mountain bike in the same day?

Who the fuck does that?

What kind of thing?

I kind of want to see if I can do it.

That should be like an Olympic event.

Six beers and then mountain bike.

And if you come out the other side of the trail, you win.

That's it.

I wonder if I can remember to ride a bike after six IPAs.

And then maybe you ride before and then I get so drunk.

I don't know.

That might be it.

Yeah.

Get so tired that you work up a thirst for fucking high-octane craft beers.

Jesus Christ, man.

So

they also say that you can't prohibits bringing your own alcohol.

Can't bring your own alcohol at all.

No, we've got plenty here.

Music they have, of course, because you're going to be sweaty and tired and shit-faced, so you're going to need this.

Yeah, so may as well be annoyed.

Of course.

Might as well listen to music you haven't heard before.

Eternal Jones is one person.

Hailing from Spokane, Washington.

Eternal Jones is a rock and blues dance band with some surprises.

They throw in like a George Strait song once in a while, and you're like, I'm surprised.

That's weird.

That is shocking.

They played Taylor Dane before that.

I don't know what's going on here.

This is weird.

Taylor Dane, Taylor Swift.

What the hell is going on here?

I heard Paula Abdul straight up and followed by.

I don't know any George Strait songs, so I can't help you there.

But a George Straight Morning, James.

That's a good one.

I honestly couldn't name a George Strait song when it got into my head.

I don't know shit.

What do I know about George Strait?

He's had more number one hits than anybody else.

Number one hits to who?

Number one hits on the country charts.

I don't listen to that shit, especially if we listen to.

He's a real cowboy, though, James.

No, he's not.

He's playing music.

He's not.

If he was a real cowboy,

he'd be fucking doing cowboy shit, not playing music with a real clean hat on.

But he does do that, too.

He's got to work in ranch.

That's a real shit.

I'm sure.

And I'm sure he's doing all the work.

Nobody's hired on that.

I'm sure it's all.

I don't really care about that.

I've never, I know nothing about George Strait.

He's good.

Imagine being a teenager in New York going, I want to listen to an old man sing country music.

That wouldn't, what the hell?

Why would I do that?

That would have been crazy.

I want to watch a very old man.

And when you were growing up, he wasn't an old man, but he fucking sounded like he was an old man to me.

He's been an old man since he was born.

Anyone older than the Wu-Tang clan was old in 1994 to me.

You know what I mean?

They might be close to the same age, to be honest.

Probably possible.

So also, New Jack City, NU, New.

Not, okay.

Yeah, not the movie.

Not the movie.

Yeah, not the Wesley Snipes movie.

They blend soulful Motown classics with RB and top 40 hits.

Blah, blah, blah.

Okay.

And then Tamarack Ridge Duo.

Yeah.

Multi-award-winning artists Rico G and Lynette Sherry are powerhouse duo whose names are synonymous with musical excellence across the Pacific Northwest.

Well, that makes sense because I've never heard of them.

Where the fuck have they won awards?

No idea.

This says they have heartfelt ballads and high-energy anthems.

Yeah.

Dollars to donuts, James.

They're awards.

None of them are Grammys.

No, I doubt.

No, they're in the Northwest.

Yeah, that's not going to be Grammys.

Crime rate in this town.

What we are interested in here, property crime is slightly above the national average, not too, too high.

And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault, just below average.

Okay.

That one review made it sound like people were just clubbing each other in the streets.

Free-for-all.

When you went out of your house, you cracked the door, looked both ways, and if you saw nothing, ran to your car.

Hope not to get shot by a sniper.

That's what she made it sound like.

So that said, let's.

Oh, yeah, I did that.

Murder, rape, robbery, and assault.

Mount Rushmore just below average.

Okay.

So that said, let's talk about a murder.

All right.

Okay.

Let's talk about a guy first here.

Joseph Edward Duncan III.

That's a lot.

He's born February 25th, 1963.

He has a couple of nicknames he likes to be called.

Joe Dunks?

No, you would have thought so.

No.

Jet, he likes to be called.

What?

Or, this is a better one, Jazzy Jet.

Why?

What is he doing?

I don't know.

Is he all right?

It just makes me think of the in-betweeners when he goes to get that suit and he goes, too Jazzy?

And he goes, yes, maybe, maybe a bit too jazzy.

Jazzy Jet.

Why does he do that?

Don't know.

Because Joseph Duncan is a boring name.

Joseph Edward Duncan.

I'm Jet.

Joe's not so bad.

No.

Joe's a pretty good goddamn name.

That's a fine.

No one makes fun of that as a name.

You know what I mean?

It's not like your name is fucking Chester or something.

It's fine.

Even as an adult, Joey's a cool name.

That's not a bad name.

He doesn't want to be Joe's.

A lot of people name Joe.

He's got to be Jet.

He thinks he's something special, this guy.

We'll talk along that.

Name me the same thing as a German.

Jet.

He's born in, name me an American gladiator name, please.

That's what I'd like.

I'd like to be named.

I got a boy named Laser already.

Nitro's coming over.

We're going to have a little chat.

So he was born in Fort Bragg, North Carolina,

which will.

Military family.

Yeah, that's right.

I was going to say that should tell you exactly what his family is all about and what they're involved in.

Joseph or Jet here is the fourth of five children born to Joseph Duncan Jr., the second, and Lillian Mae Duncan here.

He has three older sisters and a younger brother.

So they had three girls and then two boys, which is interesting.

His parents were married in 1957 in Pennsylvania, and then in 1958, his dad joined the Army.

And his dad will be a career army guy.

Next 20 years, he'll be in the army.

And yes, and apparently that...

Basically, he, so this is until Joseph is about 12.

Yeah.

So basically, he complains that they moved every two years with the military assignments.

They lived in Europe and several U.S.

posts.

And apparently this made him fucking miserable.

Sounds like it, yeah.

A doctor that he saw in his teen years

said,

a court-forced doctor.

Well, yeah, you could call it that, but it's court-forced psychotherapy more than anything else.

Court-ordered mental gymnastics.

Yeah.

One said as a result of this, meaning moving around a lot, he kept to himself and a lot, a lot and formed only a few superficial acquaintances.

So he never really made friends anywhere.

He was always in his own little world, which is real weird.

They said he told them he felt picked on and mocked all the time.

So he spent most of his days watching TV and daydreaming.

That's what he did.

Oh, boy.

Just sitting around, which is not great for a kid.

I mean, if you're creative and you can and you're artsy, that's great.

That's terrific.

If you're fucking upset that nobody wants to hang out with you, that's terrible.

If you're writing poetry and painting pictures or like, you know, learning the guitar or something, that's a different story.

But this kid's just...

He's sitting around seething is what he is.

Just sitting around going, why do we have to move?

I hate my parents.

I hate this.

I hate all the kids.

Yeah, planning his revenge.

He said, quote, we moved every year or two.

We traveled quite a bit until dad retired into coma.

We went to school.

We went to church.

We were members of the Boy Scouts.

We were typical teenagers.

So normal stuff.

Teenagers, but not typical under teens.

Under teens.

Yeah, exactly.

So 78 is when his dad retires from the military.

His dad gets a job with the U.S.

Postal Service working at, yeah, they hire veterans a lot.

I know I have

an uncle of mine is an Air Force career veteran.

He went and got a job at the post office right away.

They have a veteran hiring.

It's a great job.

It's great that they do that, but that sounds fucking exhausting.

You have to get mail from so far away to so far away.

Well, he works at the Tacoma Area Bulk Mail Center.

So he's in a sorting center.

He's not a mailman.

Okay.

Yeah.

So he's just

in the same building every day.

Most people who work for the post office aren't actually carriers.

That's a

very good thing.

It's like a tooth, basically.

You can see that on top.

There's a lot underneath it that's going.

I don't know.

I mean, it's a federal job.

It's probably not that much work.

It's a federal.

Yeah.

That's a great job.

I mean, I think it's just you sort.

There's probably just a shitload of them doing minimal work.

You just sort as much as you can in eight hours and move on.

I don't think it's

it.

Then the next shift comes in.

I really think that's all it is.

A very lazy approach to look at.

He's retired, for fuck's sake.

Yeah.

So a year later, after he retires and gets a job, after 22 years of marriage, his parents separate.

Oh.

So apparently the military thing was fine.

And then once they all settle down, it doesn't work out.

He's He's like an athlete, basically.

That's what happens with athletes.

They get a divorce.

It's like 80% of them

within a year of their retirement, they get a divorce because it's like, now we have to spend time together.

I have to stare at you.

Yeah.

The husband's used to being out, you know, having affairs with other women in every city.

The wife's used to not having him around, but having millions of dollars to spend.

It clashes when they get home together.

Money,

the bank account just goes down now.

Yeah, it's fucked up.

So their marriage was

irretrievably irretrievably broken, according to the documents, for unspecified reasons.

And Duncan and a younger sister were the only ones, Joseph and a younger sister were the only ones still living at home, meaning the younger of the sisters, not younger.

Oh, got it.

So I don't know

his younger brother had already left somehow, but he's there.

I don't know how that works.

I think some went with dad and some stayed with mom, too.

It was a problem.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So Duncan went to Lakes High School in Tacoma until his sophomore year, when in his sophomore year, he went to Christmas break and never came back from Christmas break.

Just didn't go back in January in his sophomore year.

So he dropped out midway through the sophomore year, which isn't good.

He had a good Christmas that year.

He was like, I'm not

going back.

He's not going back, man.

He had a 1.7 grade point average.

So it wasn't like he was walking away from much, which is weird because he's real smart.

That's the strange part.

An introvert, too, right?

Yes.

It's a strange thing here.

Apparently, he told doctors later on that he was using marijuana daily by that time, by the time he got to high school, and he was also into acid, amphetamines, barbiturates, and value

and PCP.

If he can put it in

if you got it and he can smoke it or fucking snort it, he'll do it basically or eat it.

He's going to do it.

When he was 15,

this is right after he didn't go back to school.

He tried to run a police roadblock.

Yeah.

Tried to just run through a police roadblock because he didn't have a license.

So rather than just get in trouble for that, he said, I'll blow through the roadblock and run.

He crashed, shattered his sinuses in the right side of his face.

Oh, no.

And injured a couple cops, too.

Not great.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

Not good at all, man.

So

now, as far as the home life goes, when his parents split up, Duncan remained with one of the sisters at his mother's house while his younger brother went to live with their father

for a while.

So that's when you split the kids up into different camps, too.

Now you're really splintering a family.

Yeah, I'm of the opinion that the kids need to stay together wherever they are, I feel like, if they're going to have a real, if you want them to have a relationship like that.

They either stay in one house or stay in the other or 50-50 at the exact same time altogether.

Yeah.

You got to move the herd together.

It's kind of unhealthy, otherwise, in my opinion.

I'm not a doctor.

I don't fucking know any of this shit.

So it seems like keeping everything together is the best way to do it.

Yeah, yeah.

So his father remarried, and his dad started another family, had a step family, and all that.

So he's got that going.

And we've talked about that before, how that'll mess your psyche up a little bit when you're a kid and you're like, so hold on a minute.

Guys,

can't pull it together for us, but you can pull it together for another family.

Thanks a lot.

It is dangerous.

I've been there.

So, in 1980, here

he has some problems, and this is when he's 17 years old.

He'll end up in a hospital after this.

Yeah, he has already run a roadblock, crashed his face, and now he's going, What's he doing now?

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He knew that one of his neighbors was gone one evening.

So he smashed out a storm window and broke into the guy's bedroom.

He stole four pistols.

He's 17.

17.

1,000 rounds of ammunition.

And some porn bags, of course, because they're there.

So you got to take those.

I mean, you got to take them.

He later said.

Guns and titties.

Guns and tits.

I mean, what more does a 17-year-old, if there was like a six-pack and, you know, a sandwich and some beer and some, whatever, like, that's the only thing that would have.

That's an awful lot of ammo, though, that he's taking a thousand rounds?

That's a crazy amount.

That's a shitload of ammo that could kill a thousand people.

That's a lot.

I mean, depending on the rounds, because 22 caliber comes in like a little brick that's like, that's 550.

That's easy to take two of.

Yeah, but everything else comes in rounds of 50 or 100.

That's so heavy.

He's got a pillowcase full of this shit, it seems like.

He said his intent was to return home, look at the magazines, and jerk off.

That's what he planned on doing.

I don't know why he needed the pistol for that.

But when he got home, he said, quote, then I decided, why not the real thing?

What?

He's going to jerk off, but he's like, well, I mean, I have all these guns.

Why don't I just go?

Oh, yeah.

So he said, so I got a gun and went cruising for a victim.

What the fuck?

He's 17.

This is.

That's crazy.

That is a...

First of all, that's really annoying because a 17-year-old with that kind of like self-confidence should be doing other things.

He should be be able to earn pussy on his own.

He shouldn't need a gun.

At 17, you should be like, I couldn't even get a victim if I wanted to.

You should be so fucking emo at 17 that you shouldn't even know that you are capable of being a monster.

You know what I'm saying?

Has he had sex yet?

Do we know that?

Yes, we'll find out all about his history here.

Yeah, he's had some

problems.

So he found a 14-year-old boy in front of a nearby school.

That's an interesting choice.

At gunpoint, he forced the boy into into the woods and made him take all his clothes off and made the boy perform oral sex on him twice.

Twice.

That's not the real thing, man.

You have city magazines.

Yeah, but I don't think that's what he's interested in.

We'll talk about it.

His sexual proclivities go in all directions.

There is no real

lockdown.

He's got a lot of ambivalence in the sexual department from things that have happened to him here in the past is what he says, but we don't know.

So he hit the boy repeatedly with a stick, by the way, while he did this and burned the boy's buttocks with a cigarette repeatedly.

Okay.

And then let him go.

Really?

Yeah.

So when he got home, the police were waiting for him because the kid ran right back to the school and said, oh my God, I just got tortured in the woods.

Joey Dunks did it.

Yeah.

He found a kid that wasn't, a kid that's probably from a decent background and knows enough to, you know.

And knows that's not okay.

Yeah.

He's a bad predator.

He didn't seek out the victim that won't tell.

You know what I mean?

Predators often have that sixth sense.

He doesn't have that yet to do that.

He got a kid who is fine, and this kid is now going to tell on him.

So he is going to plead guilty to first-degree rape over this at 17.

Yeah, because the options are very limited there.

That's not a lot there.

He wrote on his plea form, I held a gun to a juvenile and forced him to commit certain sex acts.

And his spelling is atrocious, by the way.

Commit is C-O-M-M-E-T, Comet,

and certain is S-E-R-T-A-N.

Certain with an S.

With an S.

Oh, no.

Yes.

That's a big swing in a miss.

I would say so.

Jesus.

Now, he.

When he's arrested and he's talking to the psychiatrists and all that, he describes his mother as a very domineering woman and claims to have been abused a lot as a child.

But his younger brother says that didn't happen.

His younger brother said, I was there, that didn't happen.

But his brother was gone after the divorce.

So, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Now, he says,

this is what Joseph Old Jett says here.

He said that the rape stemmed from a sense of rejection by his mother and father.

He said he was upset because his parents had been fighting a lot and were breaking up and because he was doing badly in school and because he couldn't get into the Air Force because of his auto theft conviction for the car he stole and ran into a fucking police thing.

So

not good at all here.

So he's frustrated by his own actions

and the consequences of those actions.

So he raped somebody.

Yeah, and he's 16, 17.

So in a year or two, you know what?

Get the fuck out of the house.

Go get a job.

Bet that record's expunged.

You know what I'm saying?

Even if it's not, go get a job and fucking work it out.

Like, that's life.

get out of the house make your own way the same i had for gypsy rose you're 22 i don't really care what just get just leave walk out the door and go get a job get an apartment that's it it's the end of the hold on you period you know

the the car theft as a as a juvenile i don't know the laws and i that falls off your record in arizona i know that probably when he's 18.

yeah but i don't know i guess maybe the federal government might be able to look into your background a bit probably for the airport database somewhere that you can't delete but maybe locally it's it's got to go away.

So he is sentenced to for this rape.

You, you, young man,

may fuck off 20 years in prison.

All suspended.

What?

All suspended.

Not

a sentence of 20, 15 suspended.

You do five.

Maybe you're out in two.

You got to talk to us like a counselor in there and all that shit.

And then we have you.

If you do anything else, you're back in for another 15.

That would have been the smart thing.

They just suspend all 20.

20 years, get out there and be somebody.

That's right.

So he was in.

Or else you do 20, right?

That's the answer.

I guess so.

Well, he was instead of that, he is committed to a sex offender treatment program at Western State Hospital.

Basically,

because of his age, they're trying to divert him and thinking if he can get treatment and stop whatever road he's going down, maybe he won't need prison type of thing.

I'm a firm believer that therapy can help and can help people grow and be better people.

I don't know about that.

I don't know that they're that rape can.

Yeah, I think we figured out by now that

different degrees of rape too.

This is fucking crazy at 17.

That's a lot.

That's crazy.

That's a lot.

And I think they're just they don't know whether this is his cement is wet still or not, I think.

And if his cement's still wet, you can fix him.

But if it's if it's dried, already got a handprint and a date carved into it, you're fucked at that point.

This might be Hoover Dam, where outside it's holding up, but the inside is still

soggy, and you can't change that dam anymore.

Totally.

You're right, I think.

So, a psychological evaluation at a Washington State mental hospital found that Duncan, at 17, was, quote, preoccupied with deviant sexual fantasies and also, quote, meets the definition of a sexual psychopath.

That's not good at 17.

Now, get on it.

Well, he's in the hospital.

He has to stay in this hospital.

They didn't let him out.

Instead of jail, they put him in a hospital.

And he won't, he'll end up in jail.

Don't worry.

So during assessments at the Western State Hospital, he detailed a sexual history that began at age eight.

Okay.

Yeah.

You don't do that without something happening to you.

You don't.

You just don't.

It's not been touched before.

Yeah.

Anybody in the child range does not sexually abuse other children unless they've been abused.

They just don't.

They don't think of it.

It's just not something they do.

I mean, maybe 1% of the time.

Yeah.

99%, something's happening.

And they may not even realize that they've been abused.

Yeah.

Oh, no, that doesn't.

They may think that they've just had sexual conflict of some sort.

They don't realize that that's not right.

And that's the thing.

And they haven't had treatment.

That's why.

If it happened to them and they got right in treatment or something from men, you know, like all their parents knew about it and put them in treatment, then they have a chance to be fine.

But when it happens like that and then nothing's done about it, yeah, a lot of times that.

manifests itself.

Not that all people who've been obviously molested are going to molest other people, but the ones who do have been, you know?

Yeah.

So

he said age eight when he was, this is his claim, that he was performing incestuous sex acts with female relatives.

Don't know who that is.

Don't know who that's supposed to be.

I don't know if he's trying to say his sisters or he's trying to say an aunt or his mom or I don't know what the fuck the deal is.

He also tells doctors that by age 12, he had already forced a five-year-old boy to perform oral sex on him.

Forced.

Forced.

By 12.

Imagine, I had no capacity to force anyone to do anything at 12.

Nothing.

All I wanted to do is write a skateboard at 12.

Literally, it's all I played baseball and write a skateboard.

That's all I was interested in.

And my social skills at that point were so destroyed, I had no fucking idea

how to even show interest in anybody.

That's crazy.

So at 15, he told the doctors that he did the same thing to a nine-year-old boy at gunpoint.

Oh, my God.

So that time he got busted, not his first rodeo.

Not even close.

Not even close.

As you wouldn't think it would be, because that's kind of a, to have the balls to go up to a kid standing outside of school and take him into the woods.

You've done that shit before.

At gunpoint.

At gunpoint.

So the hospital report noted that it is important to note that Mr.

Duncan did go out looking for victims.

This wasn't like they fell into his lap.

He said, I'm going to go find someone and then went out.

That's another thing that's really disturbing.

They also note that at 15, he had tried to outrun the police in a stolen car, and at one point tried to run down a police officer.

That's true.

Guy had to dive out of the way.

So for that, he was sent to the

Dislands Boys Ranch for several months when he was 15.

Which God knows what happened to him in there, too.

Which, you know, a little more history.

He said, by age 16, he told the doctors that he had committed 13 rapes of young boys.

Oh, boy.

By 16.

Who did what?

To Jen here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're not fixable at this point.

No, no, that's so many.

If that was the first time he ever did anything,

this is, he's got a pattern of behavior, and he is starting to hone it to really get it to where he likes it, too, which is also creepy.

In one case, he claimed that he tied up six boys, six,

ages six through ten

and forced them to perform oral sex and then raped them anally that's what he said this is horrifying

i don't know if we don't know if that's true or not so it's a little less horrifying

very tall tale that's what i mean we don't know if that's true that's why it's a little

perhaps disturbing that to to uh detract from the

uh deviance and absurdity of what he really has done maybe or i think he likes the attention i think he likes,

he's probably, if he's saying this, they're calling extra doctors in here about it.

You know, tell him what you told me.

Shit like that.

He probably enjoys adults' attention.

You know what I mean?

Because it doesn't seem like in his family he got a whole lot of it.

There's not a lot of that's an excuse for it.

Right.

There's not a lot of stories in the history of child abuse that that's made public that somebody had six children.

No, that's like an Abu Grab.

He made an Abu Grab fucking pyramid out of these kids.

That's crazy.

I don't know if that's true or not.

That's an absurd claim.

Yeah.

So

the clinical director, Dr.

William Voorhees Jr., said this position of power over children has developed into a very powerful and compulsive pattern.

Mr.

Duncan is not safe to be at large.

Right.

Okay.

Now, by 1982, he's 19 years old, and the hospital basically gave up on him.

They're like, we can't fix him.

He's fucked.

And he does not behave himself in here either.

And he's not trying to fix himself.

He's just telling us horrible things and then doing more horrible things.

He's just ruining my lunch every day.

That's it.

The therapist wrote in his report, after 22 months in the program, Mr.

Duncan has shown an unwillingness to modify his sexual deviant behaviors and has chosen not to commit himself to program techniques.

They say that he showed a constant need to maintain secrecy about his fantasies and he rebels against treatment.

So

guess what?

Yep, you're going to end up going to prison here.

They cited a key incident on Valentine's Day, 1982.

His mother came to stay with him at a Western State Hospital cottage used for family visits.

Right.

So, yeah, because there's juveniles here, so the families come and you can actually, you know, have a little family night in the college.

It's like a conjugal visit thing, but for families with dominoes.

Yeah, with

board games and shit, with chutes and ladders.

Yeah.

So after she went to bed,

he grabbed a coat, put his gloves on, and grabbed an extension cord,

and then left the cottage, hopped the hospital wall, and crept up to a nearby home.

With the cord.

With the cord, where he spied on an 18-year-old woman

and other people in the houses.

uh in the house the dog began to bark and somebody spotted him so he ran away went back over the wall, and went back to the cottage where he woke his mother up.

Didn't tell her, I don't know if he told her

what they did, but after she woke his mother up, quote, she then taught him how to disco dance, according to the report.

Hey, Ma,

I'm in the mental hospital.

It's three o'clock in the morning.

I just climbed the wall to peep on somebody.

People found me, so I broke back into the mental hospital.

Can you teach me how to do the hustle, please?

I need to know now.

Bring the Delma.

Let's go.

What the fuck is happening?

What is going on?

That is a

whole thing is.

Dogs saved their lives, maybe, or saved an incident.

Yeah, that's why you get a dog.

That's why you have dogs.

I can't tell you how many serial killers we've done stuff on.

They all seem fucking hate dogs.

They all say that.

Remember in the

shit, the Vallejo, California, where the kidnapping that they thought was fake and all that.

The guy told the one victim, he goes, you know, you should really get a dog.

If you had a dog, I wouldn't even have come in.

I would never come back.

He said I would have heard the dog bark and left.

He goes, so you should probably get a dog if you want to be safer next time.

So

that's the guy telling you that.

The guy told her, yeah, he was giving her tips.

He's a bad guy.

A week later, after this, he announced that he wanted to leave treatment and serve his time in prison.

He wants to leave the hospital to go to prison.

I need you to keep me in.

Yeah, well, it's also probably less strict at the prison.

You have to, you have to kind of mine your P's and Q's in the hospital.

You have to go to therapy.

You have to do certain things.

Yeah, there's a lot of like, you can just go to prison and sit on your ass and do nothing.

And that's, he's like, I don't want to fucking participate in this.

He'd rather go to prison and where he can get in trouble a little bit more.

So one of the therapists wrote to the Pierce County officials about him.

He's exhibited little remorse or guilt for his sexual deviation while in treatment.

He is not safe to be at large, and also that Mr.

Duncan is available for transport back to your county by your sheriff at your earliest convenience.

Please come get this ragamuffin.

This asshole, we can't stand him.

Come scoop up your boy.

Oh my God.

He also, by the way, in addition to the car crash, he claims that he was hit in the head with a shovel as a boy, and that fucked his scrambled his eggs a little bit there.

So he is going to go to jail here, going to go to prison, where he says he's repeatedly abused in prison.

Now, we don't know if that is by staff or inmates.

But he did say later on that he began to, quote, plot revenge on society by studying kidnapping and murder after that.

Wow.

Yeah, this is not good.

Where do you study that?

Is that in the library?

Yeah, you can true crime stuff like that.

And, you know, you could read court cases.

You can do all that kind of shit in the legal library there or whatever.

So,

I mean, I don't even, this is a snowball, but I don't know what path would have sent the snowball from, kept it from gathering more snow.

I don't know.

I don't know if he was, who knows?

He was on, it seems like an unstoppable path from a young age.

That I don't know how you stop this.

So, um, now he started in January of 1991 here, January 2nd, 1991.

So, he's still in prison.

He started a pen pal correspondence and later developed a relationship with a uh king county revenue officer named wolfert is his last name yeah um so wolfert wrote the review board in 1991 to try to help him get out of prison quote mr duncan is filled with remorse for the act he committed many years ago he is open honest and eager to move on with his life So that's David Wolfert there.

He is no threat to society whatsoever.

Oh.

Wow.

So when he ends up getting released to a halfway house, Wolfert loaned Duncan here $3,000, also paid his initial rent in the halfway house, and reportedly hooked up with Duncan as well as a

sexual

partner.

Yeah.

So Wolfert wrote, it is my intention to back him, support him, and help him in any way possible upon his release.

He loves him.

He loves him.

Yeah, yeah.

So he said further incarceration of Mr.

Duncan will serve no purpose whatsoever.

So yeah, Duncan served 14 years for the rape and then he's going to serve some more for some parole violations as well.

Now,

his mother, Lillian, said that her son had to overcome tremendous hurdles from bedwetting to being spoiled by his father.

That's not a hurdle being spoiled by your father.

Is that a hurdle?

I would have loved that hurdle as a child.

That's interesting.

She said, I tried and tried to properly train him up in an authoritarian Christian manner, but his dad had apparently been raised in a very liberal fashion.

You don't, and you're blaming that rather than

either one of those.

That's a thing.

Either one of those can create the same thing.

For sure.

Extremes create extremes.

That's it.

Sometimes they go with the parents, sometimes the complete opposite of the parents.

So you never know.

They were almost assuring that he would go an extreme by having two different extremes there.

So 1994 is parole.

And apparently,

we'll kind of go through a little timeline of some of his movements around this time in 1994.

So this was after September 28th, 1994, is when he is released to a halfway house in Seattle.

This was after repeated, since 91-ish, unsuccessful pleas for parole.

So he starts treatment with a counselor.

October of 94, a couple weeks later, he lands a job.

Wow.

Desirable hire he is.

Holy

hell is he working?

At

telemarketing for Time Life Books.

So this is in the 90s.

So when they had those commercials for like Time Life's books, you know, Aliens series and all that.

You'd call a number.

He's the guy that answers.

This is the guy that answers and takes your credit card number.

Oh, God.

Yeah.

Oh, my.

So April of 95, he moves out of the halfway house with the okay of the, you know, courts and everything, and into the Tuscany apartments in Seattle.

He also that month spends Easter with his mother in Tacoma.

They attend church together, the whole deal.

May of 1995, he visits his father, who was was in a retirement community near Las Vegas.

He's hanging out there.

55-plus community.

Yeah, one of those joints there.

Just no kids allowed.

Those are the weirdest things in Phoenix.

Just sun and fun, and old man balls out.

Yeah, just old man balls and golf carts.

That's all it is.

Fucking weird.

June 1995, he looks into schools offering courses in computer science.

Okay.

Here.

Okay.

January 1996, meets a married Seattle mother of two and starts dating her.

Really?

Yes.

So seriously.

He's dating her.

Yeah.

He means it.

He means it.

She is, you know, married at the time, but he doesn't care.

He's not looking for, I don't know if he's looking for a full relationship or if someone who's not available is exactly what he's looking for.

You know what I mean?

That is nice.

Yeah.

So that way it can't progress any more than it already is.

So January of 96, at the same time he meets her and starts dating her, he he gets a new job at a software company in Bothel, B-O-T-H-E-L-L, bot hell.

August of 96, he moves in with a gay couple he knows in North Seattle.

Oh.

Yeah.

So he moves in with them as a roommate.

As a thruple now?

No, no, no, as a roommate, as a roommate.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

If you had a roommate move in with like you and your wife, you wouldn't automatically be a thruple.

You know what I mean?

You just have a border in there now.

If you're not fucking.

He also

tests positive for marijuana during a routine parole urine test.

So he is arrested in October 96 because of that.

They arrest him after the test comes back.

He tells police he's worried about losing his job, and he has two kittens as well.

So he's like, I have kittens and a job.

Like, I can't go to jail.

This is crazy.

Who's going to feed him?

Who's going to feed him?

So after several weeks, he's paroled again with new restrictions.

Then after that, he disappeared with his married girlfriend.

He stole her car and disappeared.

Sure.

Why not?

He just has no...

You can't pin him down.

Pin the tail on the Duncan.

It doesn't work.

You can't do it.

He's moving too much.

He refuses to conform to any societal rules, though.

And even when you think you understand what he's about, he just does something the opposite.

He's like, it's so fucking weird.

So

anyway, December of 1996, he spends Christmas with his sister in Washington.

And at that point, he's working two jobs.

So he's

doing a lot.

March 4th, 1997, he tests positive for marijuana again.

Sure.

But apparently, they don't arrest him for it.

I don't understand.

They gave him a free pass.

You get one failed test a year, buddy.

That's Seattle.

It's been progressive a long time.

You know,

March 25th, 97, he quits his telemarketing job that he had for the other software company.

I don't blame him.

Yeah, that's an awful thing.

Then March 27th, 97, he calls his parole officer, angry about a polygraph test result.

Apparently.

Yeah, he was made to take a polygraph, and they told him he failed it, and then he's pissed off about it.

I don't like it.

So he called to complain.

Another time, he said at that point he was calling from his mother's house in Tacoma, which is where he's supposed to be.

Yes.

Okay.

So May 20th, Dave Wolfert, remember him?

Yeah, that old therapist that he was sleeping with.

The revenue service guy.

Oh, is that what he was?

Kings County Revenue Service,

his pen pal.

He said that Duncan called his former roommates a week earlier, and the call was from Northern California, which is he's not allowed to go to Northern California.

No.

August 26th, 1997.

So they go to look for him where he's supposed to be, and they can't find him.

He's not there.

Yeah, he's run off with that girl's car.

He's taken off.

So on August 26, 97, an FBI task force heads to his half-sister's house in Kansas City, Missouri.

They knock on the door and he answers it.

Oh, Joey dunked.

Joey, Joey the Jet.

Joey the Jet.

You just opened.

Joey the Jet.

Come on, man.

Joey Jazzy Jet.

Joey the Jet.

Joey the Jazzy Jet.

Jazzy Jet.

I can't get enough of that either.

Bop, bop, bop, bop.

You open the door and just put your hands out to be cuffed, right?

Like, what do you even do?

I'm not Joseph.

What you talking about?

So, yeah, he answered the door.

He's arrested, sent back to prison.

So now he's reprisoned again.

So re-homed.

Now enter Dr.

Richard Waxman.

Dickie Wax, I like to call him.

Dick Wax.

Dick Wax.

So Dr.

Dick Wax over here.

Why would they do that to him?

God damn it.

You had to be a doctor at that point.

You couldn't be a normal person.

You needed to replace your first name with the word doctor so people would not put the dick in there.

I'm telling you.

So he, this is fucking amazing.

He meets Dr.

Richard Waxman, meets

Joey the Jet Dunk Dunk

at either, they don't know which one, either a coffee shop or a gay bar.

One of the two.

They don't remember.

Those are very different places.

97.

That's the same place.

It's 97.

I don't think Starbucks is really

running mainstream yet.

But one is closed at like 2 in the afternoon, and then the other doesn't open till fucking 2.

It doesn't open till 10 in the afternoon.

It makes no sense.

Maybe it's a coffee shop until it's a gay bar.

Who knows?

Oh, no.

So this was while Duncan was out on parole.

He was in San Francisco.

They met.

So this guy, Dr.

Dickie Wax,

hires an attorney for old Dunkey the Jet here.

Okay.

So Dr.

Dick tells Duncan's parole officer that he met Duncan in San Francisco and that Duncan visited Waxman at his home in Fargo, North Dakota before he was arrested in Kansas City.

So he went down there, then he ended up in Kansas City after that.

Dang.

In late September, according to Duncan's Department of Corrections computer log, his parole officer got a call from Dr.

Richard Waxman, who told her that he'd met Duncan in San Francisco at a coffee house.

Waxman felt that Duncan was honest and sincere, he told the parole officer.

Okay, okay.

Review board chairwoman Catherine Bale met with Waxman and then wrote in a memo that the doctor feels that he can help Joe and his wife, Joe, and his wife.

Dr.

Waxman's support is in support of his efforts.

He stated that Joseph is bisexual at that point.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean,

everything sexual.

Yeah.

Waxman asked the state to parole Duncan to Dr.

Dickey's home in North Dakota, where he lives with his wife and his eight- and 11-year-old kids.

Oh,

yeah.

The parole board rejected the proposal and said that they, quote, wouldn't expose his children to that kind of risk.

Yeah.

just because you're all confident that the guy's fine.

We're going to be the parent that you should be.

Holy shit.

What's her problem?

So his parole was revoked on December 12th, 1997, during a hearing at the King County Jail, and they reinstate the remainder of his prison sentence with time off for good behavior as well while he's in prison.

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So in 1998, he wanted to go to his, he wanted to be paroled to his mother's home in Tacoma, but that was rejected as well, and he's kept in there till July 14th, 2000, when he's finally released from prison.

Okay.

Okay.

Now, during all of his movements, because he went from San Francisco and ended up in Kansas City,

we'll find out later.

He made some stops in between there.

God damn.

Oh, yeah.

So Dr.

Waxman here, I guess Duncan accepts Waxman, Dr.

Dick's invitation to come to Fargo, where Dr.

Dick helped him enroll in computer science classes.

Classes?

Did I just say that?

Classes.

Classes.

I wear glasses.

I'm going to take computer science classes.

That's me.

Computer science classes at North Dakota University.

God, my fucking mouth is stupid.

And

worked at a local computer consulting firm called NV Consulting Inc.

So

he moved there.

He's in NDSU.

He's majoring in computer science, twice earning a spot on the dean's list.

This is what I mean.

He went from a 1.7 GPA spelling fucking things that shouldn't be spelled certain with an S

to being on the Dean's list.

You know, it's weird.

He's also a member of the Phi Kappa Phi Honor Society as well.

Okay, he's really figuring it out.

Late in life, but he's figuring it out.

He's figuring it out.

He has an online resume at that point, which is said to be a mix of fact and fiction, as all resumes are.

So a resume.

That's all.

It's something.

He said he enjoyed karate, skiing, and scuba diving.

Okay.

Okay.

He said, I hope to relocate to a more southern state, possibly the Kansas City region.

So,

yeah, his resume said he held jobs in Spokane, Edmonds, Washington, and Colorado during the 90s.

He does register as a sex offender with the Fargo Police Department when he moves to town.

He's classified as a level three offender, which is considered a very high risk for reoffending.

Keep an eye on this guy is what that is.

Yeah, there's only three levels.

There's three levels.

Some states have more.

Mississippi has nine levels, I found out.

Nine.

Imagine being a level nine sex offender.

That's clear the streets when he walks down.

It just clear the fucking streets.

Penis is out.

It's rock hard and he's ready to assault you all the time.

What do you got to do?

That's a level seven.

If you're seven, you're a nine.

If you're fucking three, you're a nine.

If you're two, you're a nine.

Any sex offender is a nine to me.

It's all nine.

Anything over three is incredibly fucking dangerous.

Scary.

That man's scheming all the time to get in some child's bowel.

Every one of them.

Holy shit.

Or adult, too.

He doesn't mean he doesn't.

Oh, great, right?

Yeah.

He doesn't really care.

He's a sex offender.

It's not whatever age.

It's just sex offensive.

Boys, girls, men, women, doesn't matter.

Whatever's around.

Nine is hide your dog, right?

Nine is to hide everything.

Hide your cockatiel.

He's going to go after it.

He'll figure a way to fuck that thing.

Nothing with a hole in it around this man.

No.

Jesus Christ.

No doughnuts.

You're not allowed to buy doughnuts in front of this man.

He will fuck them.

He'll put a few of them together and fuck them.

He'll fuck the munchkins.

The doughnuts.

So

the, I guess the Fargo police captain said that Duncan followed the rules for sex offenders and said, as far as we know, he was more or less a model.

Oh.

Because he registered, basically.

Yeah, because he said, I'm here.

I'm here.

So Saturday, July 3rd, 2004 here.

Okay.

He lives in Fargo.

Detroit Lakes is about 45 minutes east of Fargo.

And is a popular spot for people in Fargo to go hang out, right?

So in the middle of the day on July 3rd, 4th of July July weekend, it's a Saturday.

4th is on a Sunday.

Yeah.

One of the busiest weekends of the year, obviously, at a lakeside place.

Duncan, apparently,

he was spotted with a video camera lurking near the playground equipment.

Yeah.

Stalking children and videotaping them, essentially, here.

Making bait movies.

Yeah, and

this isn't now where someone could have a phone and look like they're texting while they film people or something like that.

He's got a fucking camera on his shoulder.

This is like a he had a Velcro to his hand.

It's got a VHS tape in it spinning.

Like, this is crazy.

So, wow.

Or a smaller one, the DVs at that point, probably.

But either way, it's still Velcro to his fucking hand.

He's holding some shit here.

Yeah.

So he ended up doing that.

At some point, he called over a six-year-old boy and the boy's eight-year-old friend.

Okay.

Duncan pulled down the shorts of the younger boy and touched him.

But the older boy, he was unable to pull his shorts down.

So the boys, who are healthy, went and alerted the adults immediately that some guy just assaulted them.

And again, you know,

he picks people who tell right away.

Yeah.

Police arrived at the scene after he fled in his red Pontiac Grand Am.

The boys described him, described the stranger who had molested them and said that he had a noticeable bump on his upper lip, which touched his bottom lip when he spoke.

I don't know what that means.

Like these.

Either that or

do they mean, do they mean his

lips come to a point?

Oh, there's that.

You know what I mean?

Because some people's lips do that, like a weird on the top lip.

I don't know.

So, either way, based on the description, as well as another witness's account of the car being parked near the playground, the Detroit Lakes Police put together a photo lineup of six men from a database of Minnesota predatory criminals.

So,

Minnesota and North Dakota criminals.

So, the six-year-old boy immediately picked Duncan out of the lineup, obviously.

With the big thing on his left, there's the guy and the fucking handy cam in his hand.

So, one count of second-degree sexual criminal, criminal, sexual conduct, and one count of attempted second-degree criminal sexual conduct were filed against him.

No warrant was issued for his arrest.

Rather, a summons to appear in court listing the charges was mailed to his home in Fargo.

What?

That is a very

exadaisical approach to

child abuse of a sexual nature.

That

dude, that's what they do.

That's what they do when you get caught with you.

Photo radar tickets.

That's what they do.

That's what they do when you get caught with weed in Florida.

They go, it's technically an arrest, but we're not going to arrest you.

We're going to send this thing to your house and you go to the court date and whatever.

He tried to fucking molest two boys.

We'll notify you

through the mail about touching of a naked child's penis.

Holy shit.

So he appeared April 5th.

Yeah, the judge set his bail at $15,000 and ordered him to return for another hearing.

By the way,

that was in April 5th in Becker County, Minnesota.

The Dr.

Dick there paid his bail, by the way, 15 grand.

And he ends up

disappearing, takes off.

Yep, gone out of that area anyway.

He doesn't go back to court in Minnesota and just goes back to Fargo.

He's just done.

Yep.

So

a year later, he's hoping to graduate from NDSU and land a job and all that kind of shit here.

But

we don't know if that's going to happen.

He ends up being arrested on April 5th, 2005.

Here,

I guess

another guy had helped him, a Joseph Crary, who was a real estate developer and an investor.

And he cut Duncan a personal check worth $15,000 to cover his bail.

But I think the other guy gave him money too.

I think he got it from two places.

That's a lot of money.

By his own account at the time, Duncan was living paycheck to paycheck.

They said he used the money to get out of jail and spent $731.99 at Walmart for a radar detector, a car battery, a small camcorder with tapes, and night vision goggles.

What?

That's all for, I'm sure, real non-nefarious purposes, right?

That's just for he's going to hunt at night, maybe.

That's all it is.

Who the hell?

Anybody that has night vision goggles, you're up to no good.

You're up to no good.

Throw them away, you fucking weirdo.

What do you need to see in the dark that much for?

Go in your house.

Go in the house.

Go watch TV.

Get inside.

Go fuck your wife and go to bed.

Get inside, dummy.

Oh, man.

So, with a total of $21,500 given to him in April 2005, minus the bail money and purchases at Walmart, he still had over

$5,700 left over.

So the guy who gave him the money believed Duncan was not a flight risk.

He was working on a college degree, holding down two jobs, and also just returned from a trip to Kansas City after receiving the court summons in Detroit Lakes.

This prairie guy, the investor real estate guy, said he met Duncan while biking.

Hi, how you doing, biker?

Are you a registered sex offender?

Let me help you.

You talked to another person on a bicycle?

Why?

And didn't stop once he got to the registered sex offender part?

Yeah.

He's like, what is that?

A Schwinn?

It is.

I suck kids' dicks.

Get out of here.

Get out of here.

Yeah, I think this is the reason you don't talk to people on bikes.

Guess what?

We have biking incoming and I no longer ride bikes.

This guy said we both enjoyed biking on the bike trails in Fargo when we became acquaintances.

In my contact with him, I saw him like many others apparently did.

He was polite, soft-spoken, and seemed sincere in turning his life around.

So he knew about his shit, knew about it.

Okay, May 5th, 2005, days before graduation, by the way.

Yeah.

Police visit his Fargo apartment with a search warrant.

Yeah.

Okay,

because he had left the area and not come back from that last charge.

So

they said that the Fargo police said they don't believe Duncan was ever at his apartment again after that, after that day of May 5th.

After nearly two weeks of not hearing from Duncan, the officer went to Duncan's home and found nobody home.

They also discovered that he was absent from his classes at North Dakota State as well.

So

they also said that he rented a Jeep Laredo from Enterprise Rent-a-Car, but didn't return it.

So

they issued it for stolen.

Yeah, police had information that he might have headed west from Fargo.

Yeah.

May 11th, 2005.

Okay.

This is, he has a blog here called The Fifth Nail.

That's what it's called.

What is that?

It was devoted to basically, at first

it was basically devoted to opposing

the sex offender registry system.

I'm sure he does that.

he doesn't like that a lot.

I don't like that you guys keep track of me.

Oh my god.

I'm gonna write a blog that supports it vehemently.

Yeah, he really does.

That's how he's gonna take this out too in a blog.

I really think you're treating me bad.

Later on, he will compare

treatment of pedophiles to treatment of the Jews by Nazis.

Difference is, you fuck kids.

They just were existing.

That's the difference.

All they were doing was existing.

You're fucking kids.

There's nothing.

There'll be a little difference there.

But people want to gas me.

Well, can you...

What?

Yes.

Yeah, man.

You are the thing, because it's all, and this is all based on actions, which is how you're supposed to judge somebody.

The content of their character, you're a kid fucker.

The content of your character is a mess.

They just wear a tiny hat.

There's no comparison, man.

Not to say.

I don't like those little fucking...

I don't like those little Brady sideburns.

It's not a fucking

braided side.

That's not...

No.

That useless man apron.

I don't like it.

Well,

at least he's not fucking children.

Not fucking kids.

So he wrote on the May 11th blog entry, I am scared, alone, and confused.

And my reaction is to strike out toward the perceived source of my misery, society.

My intent is to harm society as much as I can, then die.

Holy.

Yeah, that's a good idea.com.

He put that on fifthnail.com.

Another, a blog appears on another website with the similar name, fifthnail.blogspot.com, and contains postings that are very similar, even identical in some instances, to material that he had.

So he's doing the same.

He's just putting it on two places.

Or he's having a friend copy and paste something.

Yeah.

The blog mentions his 18-year stint in prison and his fears that university colleagues and other friends would shun him if they knew his secret.

The blog's author said he cherished his fresh start and his acquaintance with an array of really great people, from professors and co-workers to landlords and landlords and neighbors.

He said, I tried to make it work, but the problem was those demons.

They kept reminding me that if my new friends knew about them, then so much for their friendship.

The last entry here was written on May 13th, saying,

I wish I could be more honest about my feelings, but those demons made sure I'd never be able to do that.

I might not know if it matters, but just in case, I'm working on an encrypted journal that's hundreds of times more frank than this blog could ever be.

That's why I keep it encrypted.

I figure 30 years or more, in 30 years or more, we will have the technology to easily crack the encryption, currently very uncrackable, and then the world will know who I really was and what I really did and what I really thought.

Whoa.

Whoa is right.

And it's wild what he really thinks and all that show.

He's encrypted it, locked it away.

That's what he said.

Not at all.

May 13th, 2005, police talk to Dr.

Dick here.

They talk to him, and they report that Dr.

Dick believes that Duncan is not homicidal,

although he has in the past talked about suicide and what it would be like to drown.

Okay, so that's what we know.

May 17th, 2005,

Wolf Lodge, Idaho.

Now, Wolf Lodge is, it's not really a town.

It's kind of a, there's a Wolf Lodge Bay resort type thing.

It is well outside Corda Lane.

Like it's, you know, on a road going to nowhere.

Yeah.

But it is still technically Corda Lane address, even though it's nowhere near Corda Lane.

And then there's Kellogg beyond that.

It goes.

Okay.

Okay.

Now, this is 1212525 Frontage Road near Wolf Bay Lodge or Wolf Lodge Bay.

This is a house here, and it's, I looked up the street view of it.

It's on a frontage road with the fucking highway right there.

Okay.

Interesting.

Now, people in this house are Brenda K.

Groney, G-R-O-E-N-E,

40 years old, Brenda is.

She's been divorced for a couple years.

Her and the ex, though, still parent the kids together and have a, you know, mature adult relationship as far as co-parenting and things.

Yeah.

She's got a, she's got a fiancé, too, that lives with her here named Edward Mackenzie.

He's 37.

Now, Brenda has five kids, but two of them are older, I believe, or not.

Two of them are not here.

They're a little bit older.

And I don't know if they're with their dad or what's going on, but they're not here.

The kids that are in the house and living here are Slade Groney.

He is 13, a son.

Dylan Groney with a Y, Dylan with a Y, he's nine years old, a son.

And Shasta Groney, who is eight years old, and that's her daughter.

Okay.

So that's the five of them living in this house.

Okay.

Shasta would say back then about Dylan, me and Dylan were only 16 months apart.

We were very, very, very close.

We loved riding bikes or being on a scooter or going to the store with my mom.

Me and him were just very attached to my mom.

I think that's why me and him were so close, our shared love of our mom.

Sure.

You know, your brother and sister are two years a year apart, though.

So

she said that Slade, the 13-year-old, her and Shasta,

him and Shasta used to butt heads a lot.

Shasta said he always wanted to do things with our older brothers.

And when we wanted him to do stuff with us, I would remember,

I remember a lot about it.

So she said, I wish we were closer.

So, and about Mark, I guess Mark was really nice to the kids.

Shasta told people back then that he would take the kids to go crawdadding, you know, looking for crawdads in the creek there and fishing and stuff like that.

He, um, he

also, the kids all said, he made it a point to tell the kids, you know, I'm not your dad.

I'm not going to step in and try to take your dad's place, but I'm here for whatever you need me for.

He's a good guy.

That's exactly what a step parent should be.

Look, you need support.

I'm here for whatever.

I'm here for as much as you need me for.

You know, I'm not going to try to take over.

He said, I love your mom and I'm here to support you guys as a family and hopefully be a part of it, which is exactly how you should be.

So they seem like a real nice family.

On May 17th, 2005,

they weren't answering phones or doors or anything like that.

Somebody called the cops to come check on them.

Okay, welfare visit.

Welfare visit.

The deputies arrive, and when they come in the door, they find

three people face down on the floor.

Really?

They find Brenda.

partially in the kitchen and partially in the living room, dead on the floor.

They find Slade, 13 years old, at her feet, dead on the floor.

And they find Mark in the living room, dead on the floor.

No sign of Shasta or Dylan.

They're not in the house.

Okay.

So they're hoping that they spent the night at somebody's house and went to a friend's house or some shit.

Yeah, fingers, maybe they're with their dad, whatever.

But three people.

The forensic examination shows that all three were killed with a claw hammer.

Oh, brutal.

This is fucking brutal.

Brutal.

And also they're duct taped and tied up, these people.

It's horrifying.

They learned it to be a Fat Max claw hammer.

Oh, those are big.

Yeah, that's a big fucking hammer, man.

The draw part on the back of a Fat Max doesn't hook.

It's straight.

So it's stabbing.

I've never seen those.

It's horrifying.

It's a crazy hammer.

He went around, someone went around killing people with that.

Yeah.

A lot, too.

Slade, the 13-year-old, was struck 14 times with that hammer.

Mark was struck seven times with the hammer, and Brenda was struck three times with the hammer.

Hmm.

Interesting.

Which

personally, if I'm looking at this, I go, okay, you're going after Mark first because he's the threat.

You know what I mean?

So you're going to hit him.

It took seven times to put him down.

Then you're going to go after mom because if you do anything to the kids, mom's going to freak out.

It took her a little less three times.

And then he had his time to do whatever he wanted with Slade, whoever this was, and beat them as much as he felt like.

What if he beat up Mark and then Slade and then hit her and then went back?

That's even worse, right?

You don't know.

She could have bang, bang, bang.

Who the fuck knows?

But he had them all.

Apparently, whoever did this had them all tied up.

So there was no reason.

It's just, it was what they felt like doing, whenever they felt like doing it.

Now, they look for Dylan and Shasta.

They're not at any friend's house.

They're not at dad's house.

They're not at grandma's house.

They're nowhere to be fucking found.

They were home.

That's where they were.

And they're not in the house.

So this is...

Out there with somebody.

An eight-year-old and a nine-year-old, I mean all hands on deck nationwide.

Holy shit.

Put up billboards.

Search here.

Because obviously someone who has murdered their whole family has taken them.

So that's not good.

They're not.

We have the benefit of

a pre-story here.

So we have a pretty good idea.

Yes, they have no.

They don't know any of this.

None of this shit.

shit.

Nope.

It's not a fucking clip.

Hey guys, search blog spot quick.

Anybody just saying anything, maybe?

Just look.

The whole blogspot.com.

So the way it looked, basically, the way they put it together is that it looked like they were kind of corralled into the living room

and everybody was tied up.

including, they think, Shasta and Dylan as well.

And they believe that that the mother was probably

the way it looked, they believe that the mother was probably up first and the mother

was instructed to get the kids and bring them into the living room and bring everybody into one room and cooperate.

Nothing will happen to them type of thing.

Apparently,

that's what they think happened here.

Later on, they'll find out that basically

mom said someone's in the house and then they went into the living living room, and when they were into the living room, they saw a man wearing black gloves and holding a gun.

Oh, boy.

They tied the mother up with nylon zip ties and did the same to Edward, and then to

Slade.

And then Shasta and Dylan were removed from the house and placed outside on the lawn for a while, they think.

Now, there is multiple thumping sounds that people heard coming from inside the house.

And

apparently they think that Slade

was injured and was staggering around.

I don't know if there's a blood trail or something like that.

So yeah, this is fucking horrifying.

Then they figured that he took whoever this was, whoever this was, took the kids and put them in a car and took off.

So

yeah, it's a neighbor said, this freaks everybody out, as you can imagine.

Yeah.

Everybody's freaked out.

A neighbor said she was aghast and said, quote, it was like the boogeyman was coming to your house.

Even with everyone there, they were absolutely not safe.

I thought this couldn't be just one person doing this.

To be able to round everybody up,

deal with five people and all that, kill everybody efficiently, and then take the kids,

that's a lot.

She's a very controlled person that

has something on their mind.

Or multiple people.

Yeah, that's terrific.

Yeah, that's what she's thinking.

She's like, this couldn't be one person doing this.

That's too much to do.

So everyone's freaked out.

The family goes on America's Most Wanted and pleads for the children's safe returns.

I mean, they want the kids back.

They're like, what the fuck here?

And it does, obviously, we, from our experience

doing this, and I'm sure the police experience too, the...

the chances that they're getting any of these kids back are very rare not great.

Unless it's like a teacher that is in love with a child.

Yeah, yeah.

And they like, they want a future with this.

There's no, this person took two children.

They don't care about a future with this.

But if the teacher killed the kid's whole family, you never know at that point.

That could be anything.

The sheriff of the one county in Idaho said it's probably the most horrendous case we've ever seen.

They said,

yeah, it's crazy.

Fucking crazy.

It's worst case scenario.

Wow.

They said it could, it's a lightning strike case.

I mean, it could have happened anywhere, but it just happened to happen here.

We've had murder cases before, but not this serial killer, kill the family, kidnap the children cases.

And I spent 38 years in the sheriff's department, he said.

This is the only one.

And that's a great thing.

Yeah, it just doesn't exist.

This doesn't even a lightning strike situation.

It's just wherever this fucking guy is, it just happens.

It's fucked up.

So July 1st, 2005, Dr.

Dick calls the cops.

Uh-huh.

He calls the cops saying that on July 1st, that day, Duncan called him.

So Duncan's on the run as a fugitive, and he said, Duncan called me.

The cop said, quote, then he stated that he just began yelling at him.

So Dr.

Dick said he just was yelling at me.

He stated that after yelling at him for some time, Joe just suddenly hung up.

So he called Durant and Rave, and then all Jet Dunks.

Hangs it up.

Now, Waxman said he told the cop that he was angry at Duncan Duncan because he took off and he has a big investment in him.

He says, I've given this guy money.

I've helped him.

He said it did appear, though, that while talking with Dr.

Waxman, that he was looking for information from me about his friend, Mr.

Duncan, but I was unwilling or unable to provide any information.

So he's thinking this guy was trying to,

you know, poke around for pieces of the investigation to relay back to Duncan to help him.

Yeah.

So that's July 1st, by the way.

May think about how long this has been.

This is three weeks.

Three.

It was the beginning of May.

May 11th, right?

42 days, I think, or something like that.

Oh, and June.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, we're in July.

Oh, my God.

No sign of the kids.

This is insane.

July 2nd, 2005.

Where the fuck is

2 a.m.?

How were they hidden this whole time?

This is crazy.

July 2nd, 2005, 2 a.m., a Denny's restaurant in Cordelaine.

That's what's open at 2 a.m.

Yeah.

At about 1:30 in the morning, Shasta Groney was spotted at the Denny's.

Uh-huh.

The little girl who's missing, whose face is everywhere.

Yeah.

She entered the Denny's restaurant with a 42-year-old man identified as Joseph Edward Duncan III.

Of course.

Oh, yeah.

An employee and a customer recognized her from the TV.

A customer said, that little girl over there, is that the

Komar?

She's from fucking America's Mosthood.

Yes.

And they were like, holy shit.

So they had one of the kitchen employees call the cops

and they were starting to leave, Joseph and Shasta.

So a quick-thinking waitress said, hey, little girl, you want a milkshake?

And she said,

quick thinking, or is that like raising all the suspicion in the world?

No, she was like, you're so cute and it's empty.

She goes, I'm going to make you a milkshake.

She said it like that.

Like, you know, just I love kids.

I've been around a while.

I'm going to make you a free milkshake.

And so she went and made a milkshake and gave it to the girl while the cops are coming.

Okay.

And Cordelaine police arrived and they confirmed Shasta's identity and took Duncan

into custody on charges of kidnapping on a fugitive warrant.

Wow.

By the way, Dylan is nowhere to be found here.

Yeah, that's the other question.

Where's Dylan?

What the fuck?

There's only two people eating?

So, yeah, that's it.

There's the only two in the restaurant.

So Shasta was taken to the police station where she was reunited with her father, Steve.

She underwent tests at a hospital, was interviewed by authorities.

They gave her cartoons to watch, just try to, you know, whatever.

The dad told Geraldo Rivera she seemed to be in pretty good spirits.

Wow.

Shasta's uncle, Bob Price, said that she may remain in the hospital for several more days.

They said, as we can imagine, her psyche is pretty fragile at this point.

She's been almost two months of being kidnapped.

In a brief statement, Steve Groney, the dad, said he wasn't sure how long Shasta would be in the hospital.

She did say that he did say that her condition is better than the family expected.

He said, quote, one of the doctors said, she's a tough gal.

She's a scrapper.

She's got a lot of Groney in her because they knew the family.

God knows what she's been through.

We'll find out.

Shortly after Duncan's arrest here, police in Fargo went to his home and put crime scene tape all around it to wait for a judge to sign a search warrant to search his home in Fargo.

His two cats were left behind.

The neighbor said she's been caring for the cats, and then after a while, she just took them to a shelter.

She didn't know what to do with them anymore.

She figured he wasn't coming back because it was two months already.

She said that she considered Duncan a friend and that he never caused any trouble in the neighborhood.

She said there were kids all over this neighborhood.

Never did anything.

People who lived in Duncan's neighborhood for 10 years said they heard that a sex offender moved across the alley, but they never talked to Duncan.

They said that other residents around here watched everything unfold on TV.

An elderly woman said, I've never seen him in this neighborhood, but I'm sure hearing about him now on cable news.

So she only lived two houses away, too.

Yeah.

So why didn't they catch him earlier?

Why, indeed?

They said more than 100 tips came in to the sheriff's office tip line.

So they were doing that following publications of Duncan, pictures of Duncan and the red jeep in his possession at the time of his arrest here,

they said the LeRay still has it.

He put stolen Missouri license plates on it.

That's how he

and he has a radar detector.

What?

And remember, he bought it at Walmart when he got out.

He was not getting caught.

Nope.

And they said that he was able to drive around in a stolen vehicle because he probably, the one main sheriff said, probably because he obeyed traffic laws.

He said,

police officers look for the unusual, but he didn't stand out as unusual.

Look like a 40-year-old guy driving a Jeep the speed limit between the lines.

So no one gave a shit.

No one looked twice at him.

After his arrest, Oprah Winfrey invited the family on the Oprah show where she announced that she would give $100,000 to people who helped catch sex offenders.

Oprah.

She launched the Oprah's child predator watch list, and viewers helped nab four sex offenders since that started, apparently.

Okay, absconders, I imagine.

I think so, yeah.

Not just put them on TV.

Yeah, don't send Oprah's audience out as vigilantes.

No, no, no.

That's insane.

Jesus.

Winfrey told her viewers that Shasta's story was the last straw and said, we can change the laws so that when in this country a child is molested the first time, that person's put behind bars and never let out.

Never let out.

I'm so sick of it.

That's a hard one, to do life without parole for.

A 17-year-old

for a 17-year-old who, yeah, and that's the other thing, too.

We're talking about,

you know, obviously, yeah, fucking

kids are the monster, but yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Obviously, this guy's the worst case scenario.

Yeah.

We'll never let this guy out.

But yeah, I'm talking if it's children as opposed to adults is what I'm saying.

And they also compartmentalize sex offender as

a blanket statement.

But there are different levels of it of like, actually, a drunk guy pissing in an alley.

I'm not afraid that guy's raping people.

No, no, no.

Not yet.

He probably just.

Well, when you walk up, does he kind of turn his dick a little bit?

If he turns away from you,

yeah.

If he turns it away from you, he's fine.

If he's hiding in a fucking

walk-up, then he probably doesn't want you to see it.

Exactly.

He's probably embarrassed.

So the crazy part of this is these people at Denny's were not the first time they've been seen out there.

They've been around.

Some workers at local businesses have been interviewed by investigators, and some thought they remembered seeing Duncan.

Jackie Allen, a gas station and convenience store clerk in St.

Regis, told the Associated Press that she recognized Duncan after seeing his photo and telling law enforcement that he had come into the store several weeks after the disappearance of the child.

She said that Duncan bought gas and a 12-pack of beer and asked her about local campgrounds.

She said that neither Shasta nor Dylan were with him in the store and she never saw his vehicle.

So she said, I just remember the guy.

She said he said he had kids and he was married.

He was a very friendly guy, very nice, very polite.

He didn't put a scare to me at all.

So other sightings of his Jeep in St.

Regis as well

here.

One woman, this is the same woman, by the way, the Jackie Allen, she said, it's been crazy.

I mean, if I would have known, I probably could have saved those babies.

So

Joe Cantrell, who owns a bait and tackle shop in St.

Regis, said him and his son thought at first they had seen Duncan, but a search of surveillance material and business transactions proved not to be so.

The owner of a St.

Regis convenience store, who asked not to be identified, said some of her employees thought they saw the man as well.

Then there is video from a Conoco station.

Yeah, Conoco, yeah.

Conoco, whatever it is.

Ted Bemis installed security cameras there only three months prior to this happening.

And

apparently here it's eight cameras.

And they said that the cameras

since have produced the only video footage of eight-year-old Shasta traveling with Joseph Duncan.

They were videotaped entering the convenience store at 8.20 p.m.

They said that Shasta's body language on the tape tells a story.

As she roams around the store aisles, she walks slowly with her arms crossed.

They said she's not looking at the shit on the shelves.

No.

They said she's looking up at people in the store.

Every customer in the store, she's looking right into their faces.

She's not looking at the store.

Screaming, help me, without a word.

Walking around saying, please recognize me.

Yeah.

Do you see this fucking face?

You've seen it on shit because she's driven around.

She's seen her face on billboards.

I mean, they were everywhere, man.

Him and her and Dylan's face were everywhere.

Walsh talked about me.

Oh, the owner.

Oprah's been talking.

The owner of the Cameron Street gas station business said she's probably scared to death.

She had all the chance in the world to talk to this people, and she didn't.

Yeah, she could have said, help me, help me, help me.

And I don't think.

She knows what he did to her family.

Exactly.

She's terrified of this man.

She just needs you to take the initiative.

Fucking.

Oh, my God.

They said that she looked like, the sheriff said, she looked like she was wanting to be recognized by the people.

So she's walking around, stopping, looking, stopping in front of people and looking at them in the face.

Eight-year-old.

How often do eight-year-olds do that?

You know what I mean?

So, holy shit.

They said that she reported the incident after reading about the rescue.

She told her boss that those people were in here.

So then they reviewed the surveillance tape and found the footage of the two of them.

The tapes were sold to a Spokane television station for $275, which they said they will donate to Shasta.

You should have asked for more.

Yeah, you should have probably given it to the cops more first.

As they look, they said they were amazed at how,

you know, this is in Kellogg, Idaho.

And they're like, they were amazed that this could be, this is the fucking crux of a nationwide hunt for kids.

This is for two kids, and they're in my little store at my little town.

He said, it just gives you the willies to think some psycho is here in our town.

The willies.

Oh, man.

So they were in the store for 10 minutes, by the way, and they said that Duncan acted like he didn't have a care in the world.

Didn't look suspicious.

Didn't look like, you know, holding on to the shasta all tight.

Brightening.

Mm-hmm.

They said he was walking around.

You could see him kind of watching her.

One time in the store, she's wandering up and down the aisles, and he kind of loses track of her and you can see him looking around in a panic for her.

But then he picks up the local newspaper and he's standing there thumbing through the local newspaper.

He's trying to act casual at that point.

They said the FBI ended up getting a tape of this and all that kind of thing.

The store owner did interviews with Good Morning America, The Today Show, and Dateline.

He said, you can't believe the calls we've had.

Oh my God.

So apparently he's going to be charged with three charges at this point, attempted criminal sexual contact and two counts of second-degree illegal sexual contact.

Each carries a potential maximum of 25 years in prison, but they haven't charged him with any murder yet.

Okay.

I don't know if they think he just picked Shasta up off the side of the road or something somewhere, but the main question right now is where the fuck is Dylan?

Where the fuck is he?

Where is this poor nine-year-old kid?

So

investigators were sorting through evidence trying to figure this out.

but they reiterated at that point they said they didn't expect to find him alive.

Obviously, yeah.

They said, based on investigate on information, investigators were able to put together

in totality, leaves them to believe that Dylan is dead.

That's why we're working so diligently right now to verify that or to find out it's not true.

They said, frankly, I'd be more than happy to stand up here and say it's the biggest mistake we ever made, but unfortunately, we don't think it's going to be.

Wow.

And Steve, the dad, said he's holding out hope that Dylan will be found alive.

So Shasta, this poor Shasta, man, oh my God.

They said that she got enough gifts and toys and cards and well-wishes to fill a classroom from people.

People were, I mean, this poor girl's been through hell, hell on earth.

Classmates and family sent it.

The principal came, you know, gave a thing and the whole school had a big deal.

And they said the staff is overjoyed.

Now, of course, everyone is praying and talking about Dylan.

So

this is from Shasta.

Now, this is an interview she did later on.

They said, do you remember when you were spotted?

Do you remember that moment?

What happened?

Meaning at the Denny's.

And she said, well, the cop came up to us and he asked me what my name was.

And I remember feeling really scared to say anything.

I remember looking at Joseph Duncan almost like for permission to answer the question, I was really scared.

And they said, did he give you that permission?

And Shasta said, when I looked over at him, he kind of nodded his head like, yeah, go ahead.

Like, it's over.

It's over.

I mean, the cops are here.

We're not getting out of this.

The woman said, do you think he wanted you to be rescued?

Yeah.

And Shasta said, sometimes I do think about it.

And sometimes I don't know if he would necessarily be that nice to do that for me.

But at the same time, I think he brought me to so many public places for a reason.

I don't know what was going through his head.

Then the interviewer said, What are those next few months like with your dad?

Did you get the help you needed?

And she said, I remember not being in school for a while.

I remember not being able to watch TV because my dad wanted to protect me from what was on there.

He didn't want me to have to see Duncan again.

I do remember everyone wanted to love on me and just be there with me.

I think it was just a time for my family to get back to not normal because things could never be normal after that, but back into a motion of we need to move on with our lives and start somewhere.

Some sort of fucking

normal

stability that you need as a family and as human beings and people.

So they said, did you see a counselor?

Did you get to talk about it?

She said, I was seeing a counselor that I really, really loved, but that came to an end when she was telling people outside of our sessions what was going on in our sessions.

Oh, what the fuck?

Yep, because she had somebody people were interested in, this poor little girl.

So she was telling people about it.

That's being professional.

Shut your fucking mouth.

Wow.

I went to another person, and then after that, I was so tired of talking about it.

And I was so tired of having to relive it.

I just wanted to focus mainly on what the rest of my life was going to be.

I hated looking back on my past.

And they said, Did you get the support you needed looking back?

And she said, Yeah, I definitely do think that if it wasn't something that my family could do for me, my family would reach out and other people would step in and help us.

There wasn't ever a time that I was really ever alone, and that made me feel better just being around other people and feeling that I had some sense of security.

They said, after you were rescued, was there a debriefing time?

Right.

And she said, yeah, the night that they found me, they took me to a back room.

I was sitting on a chair and they were just asking me questions.

I remember closing my eyes and saying, I'm thinking, but I was really sleeping.

I was super tired and just exhausted.

I really didn't want to answer the questions.

I just wanted to sleep.

I do remember the entire interview I did with the cops.

So they said they looked into a connection.

Does Duncan know these people?

Does this idiot,

how did he pick these people out?

And they said that they looked and they said, after all looking into everybody from both sides, quote, I'm sure there's no connection there.

He is just a boogeyman.

He saw the kids outside

earlier that day and decided he's going to go and take those kids.

That's what he did.

That's what it was.

That's fucking insane.

Now, the Jeep was, like we said, stolen with Missouri plates.

A key tag, by the way, was found

for the Jeep, was found in May by Rangers at the Bighorn Canyon National Recreation Area in Wyoming.

They found the tag that comes on your rental car

there, but not the car.

So they knew that he had been in Wyoming at some point.

So apparently, after

he took them, he put them in the Jeep and took them to a campsite.

That's where they were.

Shasta said that her and Dylan were held by him in rough and extremely dangerous mountain terrain in the Lolo National Forest.

The FBI and Mineral County Sheriff's Office believe Duncan held the siblings at a campsite near St.

Regis, Montana, which would make sense because they were seen there multiple times for at least part of the seven weeks.

Shasta told the investigators that the kids were taken to at least two campsites in Montana.

where they were repeatedly molested.

Oh, God.

Of course, that's what he's doing.

What do you think?

He's just having burning marshmallows with him?

Give me a fucking break.

Holy shit, six weeks she was gone.

That is horrifying.

What he did was he terrified them.

He kidnapped them and basically told them that he has killed other kids in Washington and California.

So if you don't cooperate, I'm going to kill you too.

I have no problem killing kids, he told them.

So Shasta said that Duncan told her about the crimes and

then showed her stories about dead people on his laptop that he said, I killed these people, so she believed it.

Now, his bond is set at $2 million.

Obviously,

yeah, is that I don't think it is.

So I don't think he has friends that have $2 million to give him.

$15,000, maybe.

So then finally, July 4th, 2005, here, this is two days after Shasta's found.

Investigators find a makeshift campsite in a remote area of the Lolo National Forest near St.

Regis where they find human remains that they believe are Dylan.

Their remains are sent to the FBI lab and Quantico for DNA testing.

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Uh, where they will be positively identified as Dylan.

How old are those?

That wow, that fuck man.

Um, did he do that?

How long have they sat in Montana?

In the fucking,

where is it?

Montana, St.

Regis, Montana.

Uh, he was shot at point-blank range

by holding a sawed-off 12-gauge shotgun to his head.

Oh, for heaven's sake.

A nine-year-old.

Shasta saw or heard that.

Yep.

She's going to explain it here.

Shasta told investigators that Duncan insisted that Dylan's death was an accident.

That's what she said.

Now, initially, Shasta was standing on the other side of Duncan's Jeep when she heard a loud boom.

Then she ran over to the other side of the jeep and saw Dylan lying on the ground screaming.

Duncan was digging through a clear plastic box looking for beer, he said, when a shotgun that was also kept in the box went off, hitting Dylan in the stomach.

Okay.

So she said, it's an accident.

I shot him by accident.

Shasta said that she then saw Duncan put the shotgun to Dylan's head and pull the trigger, but it didn't fire.

Misfired.

When Dylan begged Duncan not to kill him, Duncan reloaded the gun

and put it back to his head and shot him.

According to Shasta, Duncan then started crying and told her that he only killed him to put him out of his misery because he had shot him in the stomach.

So he felt bad.

Shasta reported that Duncan nearly killed her in the days following the killing of Dylan.

She said that he gave her the choice to be killed by either strangulation or with a gun.

An eight-year-old.

So which one do you want?

She chose strangulation.

She's afraid of guns.

Yeah.

Good loud.

You know what I mean?

Kids.

She doesn't understand.

She's eight.

Duncan proceeded to wrap a rope around her neck and pull it, causing her to start suffocating.

She said, though, she begged, she summoned enough breath to beg him to stop and used the nickname Jet.

She said, I called him Jet because that's what he liked to be called.

and he immediately stopped.

Oh, boy.

That's wild.

He then asked her if she would like to meet his mother.

Yeah, sure.

Okay, great.

Is it strangle me, shoot me, or I meet your mother?

Let's go meet mom.

Sounds good.

To which she responded, yes.

And that's when they were driving toward Quarter Lane and stopped at the Denny's.

They were on their way to go to his mom's house.

Is that right?

What would his mom do if he shows up with a fucking obviously

much nationwide searched missing eight-year-old?

Yeah.

What the fuck is going on?

If she doesn't say, if she doesn't call the police immediately, what's wrong with her too?

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

She'd have to.

Do you want to meet my mom?

Mom, this is my new bride.

This is what I mean.

She's nine.

I just adopted this kid.

I found her.

Like, what do you say?

Was he looking for a way out?

I think he was looking for a way.

I don't think he knew what to do at this point.

So

Dylan, they bury Dylan on what would have been his 10th birthday.

Ugh, it was fucking horrifying, man.

That was horrifying.

More than 700 people showed up, by the way, for his funeral because this is, I mean, everybody feels like they're kind of a part of this whole thing and this whole area by now.

Even the Denny's waitress who recognized Shasta

fucking showed up at the service and everything.

Like a lot of people are connected to this shit and they feel connected to it because, I don't know, it's one of those things.

If you steal a kid, the whole community feels like, oh, no, no, that's an assault on everything.

On everybody,

everything and everybody, that is, at that point.

It's not a personal thing.

It's like you had beef with the eight-year-old.

They sold you a lemon car and now you're pissed off.

Yep.

So before leaving his apartment at 810 7th Street in Fargo, Duncan, who's typically very fastidious, left a mess and two cats behind when he left.

He also taunted law enforcement with a message on his dining room fucking mirror.

He wrote a message saying, sorry you missed me on there.

Ew.

To the cops.

Yep.

Investigators seized computer discs, discs, computers with programs he encrypted, a bag of auburn-colored human hair.

Okay.

A sleeping bag with, quote, an adult-sized bloody footprint on it.

Notebooks, and more than 21 boxes worth of belongings in the basement of his home, all turned over to the FBI.

Now he's going to be charged with three counts of murder and kidnapping and the attack on the family home.

All six carry the death penalty, all these charges, by the way.

You don't have to tell us that you did it.

We know you did it.

We got it.

Federal prosecutors have said they will file charges in the abduction of the children and in Dylan's death as well.

So he's going to get state and federally charged for this.

So now the sex offender levels.

They said, okay, they said the problem is that the system is different in every state.

In Idaho, you're either a sex offender or you're not.

In Washington, there's three levels of sex offender.

So in Idaho, it's just there's level three doesn't mean anything.

Yeah, you just either do bad things or you don't.

Yep.

And in Mississippi, they said there's nine there.

It's fucking crazy.

They said there needs to be a standardization of all the levels, and there needs to be an ability to do civil commitments so those people aren't out there hurting anyone else.

There has to be some standardization,

which makes sense.

They said that would have made it more difficult for him to slip through the system.

He said, The one guy said, I think it would have been harder.

I think that if we had standardization, we would all understand what the levels mean and that and those he demonstrated as level three offender, he would have been civilly committed.

He wasn't even on the radar.

We didn't know about Joseph Duncan until he was caught here in Court alane with Shastogrony.

Not having those high-propensity re-offender databases to see who has the high propensity, we followed thousands of leads.

We had over 2,200 tips given to us, called in, faxed, and emailed.

Not one of them had anything to do with Joseph Duncan, by the way.

How do we not nationwide have

at least a rainbow-colored tier system?

Something.

That's just uniform.

We can't have nine levels in Mississippi and three in fucking...

Yeah, it can't be.

That's clear.

What's an eight?

They'll fuck a hog, but only if it's their own hog.

What is it?

Gets I mean.

Where nine fucking men.

How specific are we?

Yeah.

I don't get it.

You like to rate people, but only if they're like over the age of 72 or something is like a level eight.

I don't know.

I don't like it at all.

They said we had to follow up on all those, and that takes an incredible amount of manpower.

Some were very far-fetched, but some are also very possible.

They said laws related to sex offender registry were created on a national level in 94 and strengthened in 96, requiring all states to conduct community notification of sex offenders.

So there's that.

Now, July 19th, 2005, Duncan is going to talk to the police.

Okay.

This conversation is going to last more than three hours and he's going to reveal some horrifying shit.

They said, anything else you want to tell us about?

Because you're fucked, bud.

You're in so much trouble.

Don't you know?

You felt the most trouble you could be in.

You were caught with a live child with a story to tell.

You are fucked.

Couldn't be more trouble.

Yep.

And that's what it was.

She described how she took them at the house.

How he took over the house and everything.

It's crazy.

He said, well, I have a couple more things to tell you.

About 1997 or so,

I killed a 10-year-old in Riverside, California named Anthony Martinez.

Oh, he's got a name.

Oh, yeah.

He said, absolutely.

He said he hit the kid in the head with a large rock before leaving him naked and wounded in the desert to die.

Oh, boy.

In July 2005, bloggers noticed similarities between Duncan and the composite sketch in the Martinez case and between Duncan's vehicle and the one Martinez's assailant was driving.

And he said, yep, I did that.

No problem.

The FBI and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children became involved and, in turn, contacted Riverside.

Riverside authorities were able to match the fingerprint taken from Martinez's body to Duncan.

They have physical evidence.

And on August 3rd, the Riverside County Sheriff's Department announced Duncan's connection with the Martinez

case.

The FBI then sought a full set of Duncan's fingerprints to compare to a partial thumbprint found at the Martinez scene, and that was a match as well.

Okay.

So big.

When two FBI agents came to the jail to take the fingerprints, Duncan told them about the crimes anyway.

The agent said, quote, he told me that these two girls were his, quote,

two girls, not Anthony Martinez.

There's two more.

Oh, my God.

The two girls were his, quote, first revenge, and that it occurred in 1996 when he was out on parole.

His revenge for going to jail for the first time, I think his actual quote was, quote, sheer unadulterated revenge.

He was mad for going to jail, so he came out and these two young girls, Carmen Kubias, age nine, and Sammy Jo White, age 11.

They're sisters, by the way.

Where?

In Seattle.

They were staying with their mother at the Crest Motel in Seattle.

And apparently,

he said that the mother, Margaret Delaney, who was their mother, said the two girls left the Crest Motel room where Delaney and her five children were spending the night to visit a taco-time restaurant across the street, and the kids never came back.

The mom said she arrived back at the motel room with food shortly after the girls left and sent their 15-year-old brother to look for them.

When he failed, she searched for an hour and then called the cops.

Their skeletal remains were found a year and a half later.

And Duncan told the FBI officer agent here that this was revenge against society for sending him back to jail for a probation violation.

And he was mad that he had to go to jail for a month because he, quote, lost a good job.

So I'll kill two kids.

That makes sense.

That is fucking horrifying.

More on Anthony Martinez here.

Ernesto Medina, who's Anthony's father, said his two sons, Anthony and Mark, were playing in a neighbor's backyard.

And from inside his apartment, he heard children screaming, a man's got Tony, a man's got Tony.

Anthony Martinez.

The father ran outside and saw his six-year-old son, Mark, limping toward the apartment, one shoe on and one shoe off, saying the same thing.

Dad ran inside and called 911, grabbed his keys and began searching for his son.

He would check back at home often to see if the kid came back, and then he continued the search for three days and nights for nothing.

Never found him.

Anthony's body was found 15 days later.

Jesus Christ.

Yeah, he said that Mark, the other kid who was almost abducted too,

said how a tall, thin Caucasian man in a white car pulled into the alley behind a neighbor's house where he was playing with Anthony and his friends.

He said he approached the fence and called us forward.

We came and he showed us a picture of a cat.

He offered us each a dollar if we helped him look for his cat.

Three boys agreed to look for the cat.

After searching the alley, the kids went back to Duncan and told him they couldn't find the cat.

So the boy said he gave us each a dollar.

The next thing I remember is seeing a knife being drawn.

And then the next thing after that, he had my brother knife to his head.

He was being taken away and put in the car, and that was the last time I ever saw him.

Oh, God.

Holy shit.

So he tried to grab Mark first, and Anthony got between them.

That's what happened.

And he fell down, and the other kid lost his shoe, and then Duncan just grabbed Anthony instead.

Holy shit, that is fucking horrifying.

So he was trying to grab the younger kid, but ended up with a 10-year-old.

Then a document shows Duncan visited Mexico two days after that murder, and a leather-bound journal Duncan left in his Fargo apartment where he made references to the murder and wrote a poem entitled An Ode to the Killer.

In a letter written from prison later, Duncan wrote that the poet said that he wrote the poem the day after he murdered Anthony.

In a journal entry dated three days after Anthony's abduction, Duncan wrote, Now that I have fulfilled my greatest fantasy, I have

no reason left to live except to flesh it out.

I have no feelings for my victim and I never will, but I do have feelings.

I love life even more after my fight with a true monster, after being a first-hand witness to what others are enraged by merely imagining.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

Then he said in another entry, he said, I just realized the pain is gone.

The pain is gone.

Now there is only fear.

I like the fear better.

An extensive search for Anthony was conducted and they had 6,000 leads and everything else.

In April 19th, 1997, a park ranger found Anthony's body among rocks in Burdue Canyon, about two miles north of Dillon Roll Road, Dillon Road in the Indio Hills area.

The desert out there.

Yeah.

Drive-through country.

Yeah, they have to make a fucking festival out there to make people want to come there.

Gas station country is what that is.

So why didn't he kill Shasta?

What's the thing?

Well, he had a complicated four gigabyte file of map point coordinates he thought one day someone would find.

One of the points was named Epiphany.

And he said under that, this is the spot that I intended to kill Shasta.

But instead, I had the epiphany that changed everything.

Just a second before I was about to deliver the fatal blow with a large rock.

So he decided that he he had some sort of epiphany.

That is interesting.

Now, right around this time, they're going to have a psychologist, federal psychologist,

talk to him.

And this is how, this is what she said about this.

Quote: He described that as he was straddling her, he had picked up a large rock, boulder, and held it over his head and was going to bring it down and smash her head.

And in the process of doing that, he had a realization that she and he were the same person.

Oh, he's crazy.

Great.

There you go.

A 42-year-old man and an eight-year-old girl.

We're the same person.

Same guy.

Yeah.

The same people.

That we were in the same person, that they were connected, and that to do so was wrong, and therefore he should not kill her.

Instead, he should turn himself in.

He decided that he would return her to her home and turn herself in.

Well, those...

which he was on the way to there anyway, those were also decisions that he reported having attributed to this epiphany, this realization.

And in that regard, it is society rather than he who is ultimately responsible for the actions that he engaged in.

That's what he says, anyway.

Now, November 2005, Duncan's brother speaks here.

Oh, the young one, yeah.

Yeah, Bruce here.

He said, I knew from...

He couldn't be the same guy.

No, we're very different guys.

Oh, yeah.

We didn't even play basketball together when we were kids.

Nothing.

Couldn't be more different.

He said, I knew from day one he didn't get caught by accident.

He was in another state.

He could have gone 500 different directions, yet he took Shasta back.

He's a human being and he does have feelings, but he has this problem, apparently, that he does not value life.

I have no pity for my brother for what he did.

I feel sorry for that family.

That family, he destroyed it.

He said, if he's convicted and it's cut and dry and there's no way around it and there's no question about it, he may be my brother, but there's no excuse.

If someone were to do something like that to me or my family members, I'd want to see him dead.

The law is the law.

We all live under it.

And they said, well, what about like mitigating factors, like the abuse he suffered as a kid and all that?

And Bruce said, I grew up in that household.

I was not abused and never saw any abuse going on.

All of the allegations from the childhood, I'd say 99% of them are false.

Yeah.

Bruce.

Probably.

Bruce said, now he's got a sister that will say, absolutely not.

Everything was real and it was worse than he said.

Yeah.

And it was worse.

And it was worse.

Now, I don't know if that shit had burned out by the youngest child or not.

I don't know how that works, but he he said that he saw his brother a few times in prison.

He said, then when he got out, I met him in Seattle

at his apartment.

We hung out for a few times and saw each other on the holidays.

He said, all that time changed his brother, all that time in prison.

He said, you take a teenager who's confused about his sexuality, commits a horrible crime that was inexcusable even for a child, and you throw him in prison with a bunch of murderers and rapists.

He's 100 pounds soaking wet, and he became the target of other prisoners looking for sex.

The hierarchy of prisoners.

It has nothing to do with whether your brother's a horrible rapist.

His brother.

He fits with them.

And he was doing this shit before he went to prison.

So don't want to hear about it.

Why is he minimizing?

What's the deal?

Bruce said he didn't pay much attention to the killings or the urgent requests for information seeking the return of the children of this kidnapping.

He said, I didn't even know my brother was on the run.

He didn't tell anyone in the family about the charges on the playground or anything.

The ones where he was was doing the video.

Yeah.

Bruce Duncan said he's had to change his phone number twice.

He said that his brother's arrest has split the family.

He said certain people in the family are in denial.

Other people are angry.

And other people are just wanting to ignore it like it never happened.

Those are the three reactions families have.

That's the options possible.

He said, I'd like to sit down with him and talk to him without the FBI listening in because I'm sure he would tell me more than he's going to tell anyone else.

Needless to say, anything I'd find out, I would turn over to the authorities.

If he's going to tell anybody, he's going to tell me.

I think he is.

He wants him to be executed.

I think he would.

Yeah.

Well,

does he want to be executed?

No, the brother wants him to be executed.

He's even telling him

all the mitigating things he's talking about are bullshit.

He's totally against his brother.

So the sister is later going to disagree about the abuse.

This is Sherry Cox, the sister.

She said that Cox said that her and her four siblings were frequently beaten by their mother while she ranted that men were worthless and described her mother as a, quote, crazy woman who attended church obsessively every day.

Every day.

Yep.

Authoritative Christian household.

Remember she said those words?

Prosecutors didn't

question here that Duncan's mother was abusive and they couldn't, and nobody else would do it.

So Duncan, who's the second youngest of five, the sister said he was passive in the face of the beatings.

The sister said when she was beating on you, if you fought back, it was worse.

In his case, he just took what she gave and kind of whimpered off into his bedroom.

She said their father, who was in the military and often deployed, was the main subject and target of their mother's derision.

Hated him.

She, this daughter, left home at 17.

She got the fuck.

That's how shitty of a house.

She got the fuck out of there and said she only saw Duncan once after that, several years later when he was a patient at the mental hospital.

Now,

trial is coming up.

Yeah.

On the day scheduled for jury selection in the kidnap and murder trial, Duncan stops and says, I plead guilty.

He has enough.

I've had enough.

I'm pleading guilty.

We haven't even started yet, Dunks.

We haven't even started picking jurors.

So they said,

and the reason, well, you might go, why the fuck do you give this guy a deal?

The reason you give him a deal is because if you don't, a nine-year-old has to go on the stand and describe horrific crimes that have happened to her outside of a doctor's office setting and in front of lots of people.

Horrible things in front of strangers and anybody that wants a ticket to this because there's going to be a line out front to watch this.

That's fucked up.

Even if they take her in judges' chambers and all that, it's still lawyers and the judge and the clerk and someone typing it all.

That's overwhelming for a child, man.

So

the prosecutor said this agreement is possible because of a brave little nine-year-old girl who is willing to confront Duncan face to face in the courtroom.

She was going to do it.

She's a goddamn hero.

No, she's tough, man.

She's tough.

Just to survive that, she had to be tough.

Think about that.

I can't.

Almost two months being held by a fucking psychopath who just killed your whole family in front of him.

With a hammer.

With a hammer and a shotgun.

And you probably watched him murder your brother.

Yeah, she did, she said.

She watched him.

So it's hard.

That's why the cops said they were pretty sure Dylan wasn't going to be found alive because she told them I watched him shoot my brother.

So, wow.

He said guilty six times in court here.

Three counts each of first-degree murder and first-degree kidnapping.

Now, without a trial, they have to stipulate the facts, okay?

Which stipulate means both sides agree that this is evidence that we're going to enter, that we don't have to go over it.

You know what I mean?

Otherwise, you have to enter everything formally.

So

it recounts how Duncan stalked the family for two days.

Two days.

Two days of stalking.

They had no idea they're going about their lives and their business, and he's stalking them.

He stalked them at random after seeing Shasta playing outside in her bathing suit.

Got him going.

Holy fuck, man.

This sick fuck.

They said Duncan ordered Brenda to tell the kids to cooperate with him and they'd be fine.

So she was telling her kids, just do what he says.

It's going to be okay, trying to protect her children.

He then bound Brenda, Mark, and Spade with or Slade with zip ties and duct tape.

When they arrived, they found all three face down on the floor.

And like we described before,

they said that Duncan was linked to the killings by numerous items either left at the scene or found in his red stolen rental car, the Jeep Jeroque.

Oh, my God.

Went to a, he said that he brought them to a remote Montana website, sexually abusing them for nearly two months and threatened.

Campsite.

Yeah.

Not a website.

Or did I say website?

Oh, my God.

We'll call it a remote Montana website.

Wow.

A remote Montana website.

It's on the dark.

It's a remote Montana website.

Wow.

Where you sexually abuse children.

Oh.

Oh, that's horrifying.

What a horrible website.

That's the worst website ever.

Don't go to that website.

So he said that he threatened them with death if they disobeyed him.

Yeah.

And

this is fucking disgusting.

Duncan used recording and computer equipment to videotape abusing Dylan.

He fucking filmed himself abuse.

Yes, there's a tape of this somewhere before shooting him in the head.

This is horrifying, man.

This guy's a sick fuck.

So sentencing comes around.

Yeah.

And he said, I've thought a lot about what I've wanted to say, Duncan says.

He has.

I have nothing to say.

you fucking motherfucker you bastard

the judge says i'm killing primarily

judge says i sure got some shit to say you sir yeah may fuck off three consecutive life sentences no parole eat dicks okay that's fair yeah fuck off so consecutive too you're not going anywhere yeah And there's also a federal case pending, too.

So don't worry about it.

So he couldn't get death for this because he pled, right?

He made a deal.

Yeah.

He's afraid to die, this fucking pussy.

Well, we'll hear about that coming up here.

So Steve, the father of Shasta and the two poor dead kids, wrote a message on a portable whiteboard thanking the community for his support because

he had cancer surgery two weeks before and can't speak.

This poor bastard.

So he had to, while recovering from cancer surgery, go to the...

Scrawl shit out on a whiteboard.

Go to the plea hearing of the guy who killed and kidnapped his children, this poor bastard.

He said on the whiteboard, he said, this is, we feel this is the best possible outcome.

They said it was the best thing for everyone.

And

one family member said, especially for Shasta, we did not want to have Shasta take the stand.

That's what the grandmother said.

She said it was difficult even being in the courtroom.

It's like sitting in a room with the devil.

Yeah.

He is the devil, this guy, I would say.

So the county commissioner said, thank heavens, I'm absolutely thrilled.

My thanks go out to all those involved in bringing a resolution.

My thoughts are with Shasta, and I hope that this can start the healing process.

That this little girl doesn't have to go through this anymore.

Well, not so fast.

So, they talked to people on the street.

What do you think about the plea bargain?

Yeah, man on the street.

What do you think?

Now, I'm gonna look at it this way: it's what the victims' families wanted.

Sure,

it keeps a poor, fucking horrified and traumatized nine-year-old from having to fight now nine-year-old from having to testify and saves taxpayers millions of dollars.

There is no negative here unless it's, I like to see death penalty.

Unless it's that, there is no negative.

I need to see

a huge fucking

just absolutely pulsating asshole to not be fine with this deal.

If this is what the victim's family wanted, that's what is good.

One person said, I think it's a good idea for the plea bargain.

I I think she went through enough.

Another person said, I think he basically should have the book thrown at him, but anything to keep her off the stand.

She doesn't need to relive it with everybody watching her.

And I couldn't agree more.

And it was, I mean, he has the book tattooed on his forehead.

It was thrown very hard at him.

Very hard, right in the middle of it.

It says the book on his forehead.

It says no parole on his forehead.

Another person said, I think it's great.

I hope they fry his ass when they get to the federal end of it.

Another person said, quote, I guess I'm all for her not testifying.

And if they can give him the death penalty, do.

I mean,

no.

Another person.

Fuck are you talking about?

I understand how this works, dude.

No, it's a deal.

That's the point.

Lisa Humphrey, a resident of Corda Lane, said, I think he should be put to death, period.

There should be no right to a plea.

The family wouldn't let her testify anyway.

But they would have if there was a trial, because without her, they don't have the same case.

They would call evidence.

It's called evidence.

You are just an ignorant twat, you fucking idiot.

That's why I gave her name.

You can't just take a potato peeler to people and just do it until they die.

No.

In my opinion, Lisa Humphrey of Court d'Alane is an ignorant twat.

I hope she's moved since then, can't show her face in public anymore.

I hope so.

Another woman said, I think it was a good decision.

It saves the county some money and lets the federal charges go for the death penalty.

And another person said, they shouldn't plea bargain with him at all.

He should get the fullest extent of the law, which he is.

And then another guy, this is the dumbest thing.

This is by far the dumbest thing anyone could have said, quote, this is bullshit.

Now we're

now we're paying to keep him alive.

Do you know what it would have cost for death penalty appeals?

You would have been paying a hundred.

That's what I mean.

These people are, some people are so emotional, they can't even see, even if it's all about money, they can't see, well, that saves a lot.

They don't even see that.

They're like, well, now I got to pay for this.

Well, you had to pay a lot.

You know what it costs to keep someone on death row?

About 10 times what it costs for a regular prisoner.

Fucking stupid.

This is bullshit.

This is bullshit.

Meanwhile,

the father of the dead children wants this.

The father of the dead children wants it.

Scrawled out that he wants this on a whiteboard because he can't speak.

You dick.

So the deal allows the state to hold a death sentence trial over Duncan's head in the event that he's not

convicted or sentenced to death in federal court.

So they have a deal where they can come back and re-sentence him if it doesn't work out like that.

So someone's going to give him the death penalty is what the deal is.

Some of the people are too ignorant to read that far down in the article, though.

Shasta would not have to testify in that hearing, too.

So they would just stipulate to the facts.

Now, Duncan must cooperate with county authorities investigating the murder-kidnap case.

They said that Duncan's lawyer, a public defender, met Friday to hammer out the agreements.

He said a lot of hard work went into it.

I guess so.

And they said that Shasta

will never be required to relive the events of 2005 in a courtroom.

Just only in her head for the rest of her fucking life, the poor thing.

However, he admitted that it's likely she'll be called to testify against him in any federal prosecution.

That's just by the state.

They said that the death penalty was never negotiable in this case, and also they demanded that Shasta must not have to testify, and Duncan needed to agree to three back-to-back-to-back life sentences.

Duncan's attorney said, it's been a long, difficult road.

I'm happy it's over, and said that it was a good deal, or I wouldn't have recommended it.

And said that his client decided to plead guilty because he said his client wanted to save her from testifying.

The lawyer said, Mr.

Duncan wanted it to be known that he entered into this because he felt that the community and the families of the victim, and especially Steve and Shasta Groney, had been through enough and he didn't want to put them through anymore.

Also, I'm fucked.

Also, I'm real fucked.

And wow,

that's crazy.

They said that

he even said the lawyer said his client's intention was to return Shasta to her father.

That's why he was driving that direction.

And the grandmother, Shasta's grandmother, said, I don't care what he has to say, which is the.

I don't care where he was going.

I don't care what he has to say.

Don't give a shit about that guy.

Yeah, so they said already the defense had spent $400,000 on the case and would likely have spent another half a million on the trial.

So this saved all of that plus whatever.

Now, federal charges are going to happen.

And yeah, grand jury is expected to hear evidence of all of this shit.

Duncan with the crime stemming from kidnapping of the children, including the murder of Dylan, sexual abuse of both children, and child exploitation charges.

And the department, the prosecutors have received permission from the Department of Justice to seek the death penalty as well.

His public defender said,

you know, he got a good deal on the state case.

And, you know, here we are.

So under the final agreement, Duncan, who pleaded guilty to this, Will doesn't have to turn over how to get into his encrypted computer files to prosecutors.

Why?

Don't know.

They were seized from his home, and an earlier plea agreement offered by Duncan's attorney that was rejected by the prosecutor would have required Duncan to give the password key for the encryption.

Somehow that fell off the table here.

That's interesting.

So they said that we negotiated.

Some things came in and some things came out, one of the lawyers said.

So

under this agreement,

a federal public defender, Robert Pevin, is the only person who will be provided Duncan's password key.

Okay.

The lawyer said, I have access to the encrypted files and how I choose to use them, I don't know yet.

And he said he's already seen the files and he said, I'm in no hurry to go look again.

Disgusting.

I know.

That's how bad it is.

Also,

how about

don't be a dickhead.

Give those to police, you fucking.

He also said, well, he's his lawyer.

He can't go.

That goes against his job.

He doesn't work for society.

He works for a client.

Get him out.

That's his idea.

He's in no hurry to look at it.

Why would he tell us that he's seen it then?

Fuck you, dude.

For a reason.

He said there's a possibility the files could be used as leverage.

He said in the federal trial, he said, if they're interested, it's certainly something I talked to them about.

He's saying it's so bad to try to bait the federal, the feds into saying we'll make a deal if we can get out those files.

That's the point that he's going for here.

So he's selling hard.

Yeah.

So they said the state resolved the case, but we're looking into putting a case together federally and all of that.

So how hard is this shit to crack, these encrypted files?

I mean, we've got pretty pretty good people in the case, right?

The FBI is in it.

They said, basically, encrypting a computer file said consists of basically you just take the text and run it through an encryption file that turns it into gobbledygook.

Breaking that code has to deal with how many random number strings you can generate in a period of time.

The general feeling is that nothing's impossible, but depending on the encryption algorithms and size of the password, it could take a while.

Yeah, but it's blog spot.

We can do that.

Yeah, he said, well, this is the FBI.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, you're saying the files are blog spots.

Everybody can, every fucking housewife in the country had a blog spot, blog about their fucking recipes.

It's not on there, though.

These are encrypted files on his hard drive.

So he's turned it into something entirely different.

Yeah, he has those, but he has his own blog that he keeps offline to his own shit.

And they said that he estimates it could take years depending on the capabilities.

And he's a state

computer guy.

He's a computer guy.

He's a good person.

Exactly.

He was about to graduate.

So he knows what he's doing.

He said, I would hope that the FBI will have better equipment than anyone else.

And they said that it doesn't take a computer science degree to encrypt files.

He said the concept is going to be part of any computer science work.

There's several products on the market that will do it.

Other cases now.

Okay.

Because now the feds are bringing that in.

The Anthony Martinez and Sammy Joe White and Carmen Cubias in 1996.

They said one of our biggest goals of our overall investigation is to account for his whereabouts every single day he was out of custody.

We've made some great strides, but there's some gaps.

And they said their FBI would welcome anything that can tighten up that passcode or that timeline.

So 2008, he pleads guilty federally

to 10 counts.

Yeah, kidnapping, sexual abuse, you name it, murder, everything here.

He faces a death sentence on three of the felonies: kidnapping, resulting in death, sexual exploitation of a child, resulting in death, and using a firearm, and in relation to the crime of violence, resulting in death.

He also pleaded guilty to kidnapping, two counts of aggravated sexual abuse of a minor, being a felon in possession of a firearm, transportation of a stolen firearm, and transporting a stolen vehicle.

The plea means that Shasta, who's 11 now, will be spared having to testify again.

2008 federal sentencing.

Dylan has

acting, or Dylan Duncan is acting as his own attorney now.

Atta boy.

You know he's a true narcissistic asshole when he goes,

I'll handle this.

I got this.

Oh, my God.

Jesus Christ.

He dismissed his attorneys and chose to represent himself.

His attorneys objected, saying he's incompetent to do so.

And the district court ordered an evaluation and said, he's good.

Let him do it.

Let him have it.

Who cares?

Psychiatrists working with the prosecution have diagnosed Duncan with pedophilia, sexual sadism disorder, and antisocial personality disorder with narcissistic traits.

But say he's legally sane, just a real asshole.

Terrific.

It's just a real jerk.

So,

yeah,

I'll read from an article about this hearing.

Glum federal jurors listened to her testimony, but several looked away from her and across the room at Joseph Duncan, who told the FBI he kidnapped two girls on a Seattle street and was killed with a crowbar.

He killed those girls with a crowbar, by the way.

Out of here.

Beat them to death with a fucking crowbar.

So their mother gets on the stand.

Yeah.

The jury of nine men and three women will decide whether Duncan should die for the kidnap, torture, murder of Dylan

Groney.

So.

Here we go.

They're trying to prove future dangerousness, and by that, they're introducing the uncharged as-of-yet cases of Martinez and the two girls to show he's dangerous.

It is allowed into court,

even after a big argument, because they said it is not relevant to the prison setting context.

It's undoubtedly prejudicial.

That's what his attorney said.

But the

district attorney, U.S.

attorney, said it was a continuing pattern of violence.

That's a concern even in a prison setting, he said.

So the judge said, yep, that's we agree with you, the prosecutor.

So the stories of the three murders

don't just show danger.

Duncan's a danger to children.

The evidence in this case is highly relevant in that it corroborates the government's argument that it shows a pattern of violence throughout his adult life.

Duncan's choice of weapons has included anything at hand with which he could administer blunt force also.

And there's plenty of things to hit people with in prison.

They also noted that Duncan was on a rampage against society.

They said Mr.

Duncan's own words show that he calculates and plans his opportunities to get even.

He was acting as his own attorney, and he said one of the judge's statements was inaccurate.

He said, I've never said that I'm on a vendetta.

I was, but I'm no longer.

I just wanted that clarified.

And the judge said, Yeah, noted, asshole.

Great.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

Jury comes back, three hours of deliberation here,

and

they sentence him to, you, sir, may fuck off death penalty times three.

Yeah.

Times three on that and sentenced to an additional three consecutive terms of life without parole.

Also.

So he's got six consecutive lives without parole and three death penalties.

He could kill an entire baseball team.

That's nine people, completely, nine completely lost lives, a whole baseball team wiped out.

He's in so much trouble.

Oh, yeah.

So when you get those, do you serve your state time and then go to Fed or do you go straight to the federal system?

I think he's going to end up in the federal system, if I'm not mistaken.

He should.

We'll talk about it, though.

April, yes, he'll end up in the federal custody because he's got higher charges, higher penalties there.

He's got death penalty there.

So, they get to keep an eye on him.

April 2011, Anthony Martinez case, and the states love that too because then they don't have to pay for him.

So, it works out great.

Anthony Martinez here, Duncan was returned to Riverside County to stand trial for that murder after the federal case.

In 2011, he pled guilty to Anthony Martinez's murder again.

You, sir.

Again, fuck off.

Life in prison with the possibility of parole for that one.

Total sentences for this asshole.

Here we go.

On death row times three with 11 life sentences.

And three death sentences.

And he will be sent to the penitentiary in Terre Haute, Indiana.

Indiana, yeah, which is a federal joint.

That's a shit one.

I think that's where Gotti was.

I think that's where John Gotti was.

I'm pretty sure that's where the dude from Chicago that had Born to Raise Hell on his arm.

Yes.

That's where he was at, too.

What is it?

I said, Probably, I think you're right.

Robert.

No, no, I don't know his name.

Specter.

Yeah, it is Robert.

There you go.

Yeah, right.

Specter.

No, Phil Spector.

Phil Specter's the both Specters, bad people.

You're thinking of Robert Specter, right?

Richard Spector.

Richard Speck.

Speck.

Speck.

Yeah, we're thinking of Phil Spector.

It's Richard Speck.

He's the one with the tits.

Yes.

With the tits.

He's got tits later.

The black guy's leg.

Yeah, that's the one.

So Duncan's standby counsel filed a notice of appeal, and Duncan subsequently wrote to the court and informed him that any appeal that was taken on will be against his wishes.

He doesn't want to appeal.

In 2011, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Appeals reversed the district court's decision to permit Duncan to represent himself without first holding a hearing as to his

competence to do so and remanded him for a hearing on this issue.

So anyway, the appeal decision, a federal judge ruled that he was mentally competent when he gave up his right to appeal the death sentence, so he doesn't have to have appeals.

Go rotten prison.

Now, in the media, This has inspired a lot of works of shit here.

An episode of Law and Order SVU.

A Kentucky author, Karen Robards, said the Grony case gave her the idea to make child sex slavery part of the storyline in her newest novel.

Yeah, that sounds great.

That's a page turner you got there.

Jesus Christ.

Happy ending story there.

Shit, I couldn't wait for this to be over.

Putting this together.

I didn't want to write more about it.

I want to lay down more.

Fuck, good luck.

Never get a wink.

Shit.

This woman said, what made Shasta stand out is that when she was rescued, it became obvious that the man who had taken her and killed the rest of her family, including her brother with her, was a nutcase if there ever was one.

You know, really, you think?

Shocking.

Now, after being in prison, Duncan maintains the blog spot website titled Joseph E.

Duncan III returns to the web from federal death row to expose the meaning of fifth nail.

Okay.

Okay.

All the content on the site was posted by someone using the pseudonym Silenced, who presumably received letters from Duncan to post on the site on his behalf.

This happens a lot in prison.

I read a book about a guy who was in prison, and he would write

all this stuff.

Send it to people.

Send it to people who would then put it out for him.

So he explains it as this: quote:

The fifth nail is the one that we drive into our own soul.

It is the nail that destroys us and causes us to be reborn at the same time.

Okay.

That's what he writes.

All right.

So it's a Christian thing, huh?

Not really.

Let's find out.

Okay.

Here, I believe.

Okay.

2012.

Saturday, June 23rd, 2012.

Here is one of his blog postings.

And this is, by the way, the Patreon we're going to do is going to be diving deep into his blog and finding weird shit.

Holy shit.

Do you just want to hear what this nut fucking has to say?

So he basically wants to start a sex offenders club.

He wants a real name.

Sex club.

Yeah.

He wants Sex Offender Society.

Yeah.

Quote, the Sex Offender Society, SOS, is an organization of registered sex offenders.

It does not matter if you have not ever committed

or have not ever committed a sex crime, you can register as a sex offender at our website or in person at one of our Pride Parade booths.

Sex Offender Pride.

What's their

flag?

Free SOS t-shirts will be given away this year to all new registrants at the Seattle, San Francisco, and Minneapolis parade booths.

The t-shirts read,

registered sex offender,

keep women and children away, men preferred in parentheses.

Jesus Christ.

SOS is light-hearted, but provides real support and information for all registered sex offenders, criminal or not, not just gays.

Our organization is founded in the future.

In other words, it doesn't exist.

In other words,

this is not a real thing.

He just made this up and wants it to exist.

Christ.

And it's based on the simple belief that not all, that all people, wow, based on the simple belief that all people are sex offenders and all sex offenders are people.

I mean,

one of those is true.

That's what I'm saying.

He said, note, SOS does not advocate or condone sex crime or any sexual behavior that compromises another person's freedom to choose their own behavior.

Okay.

This is infuriating.

Okay.

Tuesday, October 4th, 2011.

The title of this blog is, quote, Dylan was a bully.

What?

He murdered a nine-year-old, and he's going to talk shit about him now.

He's going to piss on his grave in front of us.

Oh, man.

Quote, I've been reading hundreds of pages of newspaper articles about the, quote, child molester killer Joseph E.

Duncan III going back to May 2005.

Since my arrest, I have generally been unable to follow the press and/or just not interested.

So I didn't know, for example, about Michael Anthony Mullen, the man who murdered two men who were registered sex offenders in Bellingham, Washington.

According to the article, which I just read today for the first time, Mr.

Mullen wanted to, quote, send send a message to sex offenders because of what he had read in the papers about the Joseph Duncan murder sex abuse case.

I actually applaud Mr.

Mullen for at least acting on what he believed.

Even though what he believed was a bunch of lies fed to him by our industrious, quote, free press,

At least he had the courage to take some action and hence direct the responsibility for what he perceived as wrong with the world.

He writes like Sarah Boone.

Like those letters from Sarah Boone to the judge with like these little snarky things, like no one's going to notice that, like you got one over on somebody.

Fuck you.

He apparently later decided that spending pretty much the rest of his life in prison labeled a murderer was a bit more responsibility than he bargained for.

So he murdered one more person, himself.

I don't mean to call him a coward for killing himself.

In a way, that took courage to do.

I just wish this present world were not such that people like Mr.

Mullen are taught to think in terms of victims and offenders.

Hmm.

This is crazy.

His shit is crazy.

He said, you are either one or the other, according to popular sentiment, but in the real world, it's almost impossible to be one or the other, as I think the demise of Mr.

Mullen clearly shows.

Mr.

Mullen lamented the brutal death of Dylan Groney, who I personally murdered in the name of my own deluded sense of justice, calling Dylan a hero, even though Mr.

Mullen never met the boy.

Mullen did not see himself as a bad guy at all, writing, according to the article, I care too much, if anything.

I've always hated bullies, and pedophiles are the worst kind.

I wonder what Mr.

Mullen would have thought if he had met any one of the numerous smaller and weaker boys at Dylan's school that Dylan used to get in trouble for beating up just because they were dweebos.

So Dylan himself told me.

No, you're going to say shit that no, that he can't even

fucking asshole.

Wow.

He goes on to say, I don't mean to dishonor Dylan's memory.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

And he certainly did not deserve what I did to him.

But the truth is, Dylan was a classic playground bully, and everyone who knew him knew it.

He was fucking nine.

Who cares?

He was nine.

Whatever he is now, he's not going to be that in five years.

He's nine.

That's crazy.

He doesn't even have pubes yet.

What are we talking about?

Jesus Christ.

That's a fact that you'll never see in the papers.

And it's a fact that might have kept Mr.

Mullen from becoming the very thing he hated, a bully, if it had been reported.

He would have said, oh, good, I'm glad the kid's dead and not went and killed pedophiles.

If we want to have a truly free press, then we must allow the press to report the truth.

But we don't.

Instead, we want to judge everything that's reported just as these words here will be judged instead of heard.

Even though I'm stating simple truths with no other motive than to expose the lies.

And we do not honor Dylan, who was a real child and human being, not some fictitious angel who always smiled and never hurt anyone.

We cannot honor his memory with a lie.

So I'm honoring him here, as no one else dares, with the truth.

Dylan was a playground bully.

What does that change?

Playground, man.

He's a child.

He's nine.

He said, nana, nana, boo-boo?

Fuck you, man.

And I knew kids, I remember kids who were like, like that in elementary school.

They were bullies that were completely different by fucking 10th grade.

Completely different.

Someone punched them in the face and they stopped.

That's what happened.

Oh, my God.

Okay, here is a blog he wrote about his

SVU episode that they did.

Law and Order SVU.

Yeah.

He watched it, I guess, here.

This is from 2015.

SVU flattery, question mark.

They say that mimicry is the highest form of flattery.

I wonder if that applies when a popular TV show like Law and Order SVU makes an episode based on your crimes the way they did mine.

The episode I'm referring to was actually a rare two-parter, though only the first part, an entire episode, was dedicated to making a monster out of me so that the SVU heroes could come to the rescue and save the little girl in the end.

Yeah, that's what happened.

You're a monster and you stole a girl.

The second part of the second episode was all about the aftermath caused in the first part.

Police fantasy shows like Law and Order are known to take their story ideas from real-life crimes, but of course they rewrite the story to fit the theme of the show, i.e.

good guys versus bad guys.

Right.

You know, people who don't kill kids versus people who kill kids.

Bad guys.

Wow.

And suit the main character's location.

In my case, they made the semi-rural home that I invaded into an inner-city apartment.

The kidnapped children's older brother, found murdered in the home, became an older sister.

And instead of a loose pet dog alerting the neighbor that something was awry it was a loose pet bird

despite all the change because i had to make it in new york city that's why not rural idaho despite all the change or idaho did i say oh i don't know you said okay good okay good despite all i'm fucking questioning myself after before when i said website instead of campsite During all the changes they made to the Make My Crime appear in the hero's domain, the crime itself and the criminal were clearly copied from the news.

The family's home was surveyed and invaded by a monster that murdered the parents and teenage siblings solely in order to kidnap the younger children to keep for his sexual pleasure.

What's wrong there?

That seems right.

The children, a boy and a girl the same ages as the victim in my crimes, were then taken to a remote location, an abandoned warehouse

in the city instead of a forest in Montana, and repeatedly raped until one day they were spotted in public and the SVU heroes were called to the rescue.

Go get him, fucking Maloney.

In the TV version of my crime, however, the boy was killed publicly in order to allow the man to escape briefly with the girl, and the girl was rescued later after the heroes sleuthed out the secluded warehouse and killed the monster.

It's not all the similarities to my crime or crimes that make this show interesting to me.

It's the differences.

Why, for example, did they choose a bird instead of two large dogs as pets for the victim's family?

Perhaps because large dogs would have made the monster appear bold instead of cowardly and weak?

Who cares?

Okay.

And I think it was in New York City.

So you're more likely to have a bird in your small apartment than two large fucking dogs.

That's probably why.

Just, you know, makes sense.

And why did they depict the man as someone who uncontrollably lusts after sex with children?

Gee, I don't know, because you constantly rape kids, probably.

You murder children after you rape them.

And that's

constantly.

This is something that I've never done.

Okay.

I have no problem at all controlling my sexual behavior and never have.

Very few so-called sex offenders ever do, despite the myth made by popular TV shows like this.

In SVU Fantasy World, the man is shown bragging about his many victims in videotapes from his treatment days.

I, of course, had many, quote, victims too.

If you count

all the older children who satisfied their own sexual curiosity at my expense when I was a child as my victims, the way the popular news agencies reported after my arrest.

You being a monster doesn't make those people not monsters.

You're all fucked up.

That's the problem.

The news reports are basically were based on supposedly confidential records from my own days and treatment, but I never bragged about my crimes or glorified them in any way.

And yet in the TV story, the man is depicted as a monster with only one craving, to rape and torture children.

Well, your actions certainly show that.

Maloney and his dump truck have to save somebody.

Yeah, exactly.

In fact, the final scenes of

part one episode, while the monster is holding a gun or knife or gun or something, I can't even really remember, to the head of one of our heroes, he starts to rant about how much he enjoys raping children.

It's precisely scenes like that that really make me question the mentality of the people who watch this crap, not to mention the people who write and produce it.

Monsters like that simply can't and don't exist in the real world.

Psychologists have known for a long time, though it seems even entire factions of them have somehow forgotten this fact, that sex crimes are almost never about sex.

They're about power and control over some perceived source of pain and suffering that's pathologically associated with sex.

Yes, but they are associated, so you can't control the one that...

that triggers the other.

That's the problem.

The most humiliating thing that you can do to a person involves sex and insexual behavior.

Therefore, that's why it's linked.

you.

Fucking idiot.

I thought we all agreed on that.

He's like, why don't they understand what I'm saying?

So how in the world can so many people still find sex fiend monsters so believable?

It's like believing in sea monsters, which is actually a better analogy than it might seem at first, at least from a sociological and historical perspective.

No.

Okay.

It reminds me of a show that I see sometimes on the Mexican channel, Gala Vision, called La Rosa de Guadalupe, in which problems are miraculously resolved after someone prays to the Virgin Mary for help.

The only difference is that the hero is Guadalupe, the spirit of the Virgin Mary, instead of an SVU police squad.

In both shows, the heroes and villains are pathologically unrealistic, and both shows have devoted fan base made up of, quote, true believers.

This guy just hates Marisco Hargitz.

He hates

now.

I also, and I love SVU, and I've seen a million episodes of it, but I have a problem with how, hey, listen, how serious they are.

Most of the time, those cops that do sexual

special victim shit, they don't do it for 25 years.

They do it for like five years and

they're fucking burnt out and they go to homicide after that.

That's what it works.

They're like, well, fuck this.

I can't do all this shit.

Yeah.

Okay.

This is, I'm going to read a short section from a blog he wrote about criminal minds, the show Criminal Minds.

Yeah.

He's really obsessed with this.

Criminal Minds, we all have one is what it's called.

The simple fact that there's a popular television series called Criminal Minds is indicative of the depth of ignorance that permeates our culture.

It doesn't matter what the program is about.

The title alone portrays the ignorance of which I speak.

In another age, titles such as Negro Mentality or Jew

psychology once indicated the same kind of ignorance.

It's the ignorance of prejudice and self-righteous superiority.

The only purpose such program titles serve is to bespeak a class of people who are deemed inferior and undesirable so the rest can feel superior and accepted even though the traits that

define the marginalized class are superficial and meaningless.

Whoa.

He can't lump him.

Being behind bars, a lot of those guys just end up going, all the greatest injustices are in here.

You can't compare yourself to a guy that got caught with a stolen car on his third strike and now gets light.

It's a different guy.

That's a different story.

That's like I'll say, you want to hear him double down on what he just said?

Please do.

We know today that Negroes aren't the simple and stupid Cretans they were once commonly believed to be.

Instead, the culture itself that depicted them as such literally defined and created the circumstances that supported the appearance of the inferior Negro mentality.

Yes, but you rape kids.

You're not just born black.

You're fucking a kid raper.

What the fuck are you talking about?

You can't scream white privilege.

Good God.

And Jewish people aren't the greedy and and single-minded herd animals that they were once commonly held to be, not just by Nazis, but by major political factions in the United States and other countries as well,

prior to the so-called Holocaust.

Oh.

We know now that the, quote, science that was used to support both of these prejudicial illusions was itself the cause of so much ignorance.

Negro brains are not in fact less functional than Caucasian brains, and Jewish culture does not, in fact, center around money and wealth.

Negroes and Jews are collectively no different than any other people on earth aside from the color of their skin or religious beliefs.

And so criminals, quote-unquote, are no different than anyone else as well, aside from the arbitrary fact that they were caught and convicted of a crime.

It's not arbitrary, though.

That's how we judge people, by their actions.

Not their right.

Listen to Martin Luther King's story.

That's what I just say.

Yes.

We judge them by their character, friend.

The content of their character.

Oh, my God.

He said, I personally use the term criminal to refer to people in general, not just those who have been caught and convicted.

In my book, we're all criminal by nature, not by arbitrary law and circumstance.

I believe someday, perhaps, even someday soon, I will have a lot of company.

Yeah.

I agree.

We're probably all criminals

at some level.

We've done something.

Everybody's broken the law.

Never kidnapped a kid and held her for two months.

Yeah, never kidnapped two children and shot one of them in the fucking head with a shotgun, man.

I don't even want to be around kids.

Yeah.

I can't stand it.

What the fuck do I want to be around them for?

Can't smoke weed around them or anything.

Get out of here.

You guys are lame.

Watch you guys near me.

I don't want them around.

Get the fuck out of here.

I want to put the righteous gemstones on.

You won't understand it.

Uncle Baby Billy's Bible bonkers is happening.

I got to watch it.

This show is bananas.

He said, want to give an old man a blowjob?

I want to suck an old man's dick.

That's what I'm saying.

Suck an old man's dick.

My favorite line in the whole show is

why the fuck you mumbling you teenagers that's the greatest line of all time why the fuck are you mumbling you teenagers

okay so how is shasta doing yeah oh okay let's talk about shasta should we i don't yeah yeah yeah no she's out in public she's talking to people she's doing interviews

i would never seen a i've seen all these videos of of that smart girl talking i've never heard of this girl and never seen her talk and i don't if she doesn't want to talk i don't want to no she does she's out i i would definitely, you know me, dude.

I'm not give names out.

You know, no, she's talking.

All right.

So

this is 2015.

So Shasta, 10 years later.

She's 19 and lives in Treasure Valley.

And

she said that, quote, I think the things that happen like that, you can't really forget about them.

I think that the images will always be vivid in your mind, or I know they're in my mind.

She said, I feel like I'm doing pretty good, but I do have bouts of depression.

I have PTSD and bipolar disorder.

She said, She fell into drugs at 12.

What choice would she have?

I mean, just to get, just to silence whatever's going on in your head.

I mean, she said, that's when I started smoking marijuana and drinking.

It actually made me feel really good because I didn't have to focus on all the stuff that was going on in my life at that point.

I mean, there was still court stuff going on with Joseph Duncan and counseling stuff I had to do.

When I was 14, it was my first time ever doing meth.

No.

And for four years after that, it was meth.

Pretty much anything I could get my hands on that made me feel like a different person, I would do.

In 2014, she landed in a juvenile detention center for a drug-related crime.

She served her sentence there.

She talked about her struggles with drug abuse.

She said that trying to deal with life as a, quote, celebrity victim was not easy because it keeps getting brought up.

Yeah.

So she said that her path began to unravel.

She said she was after a year in a correctional facility, she was clean and sober.

And she said, I actually came to a step-down program that's in the Treasure Valley area and was there for four or five months.

And they helped me get on my feet, get a place, and just work on my sobriety.

Seemed like a lot of people here see me and recognize me, but they're like, let's let her live her life.

So she said, now she's been sober for two years, is expecting a baby boy in March.

And she said that she said, I guess for a long time, I always had this feeling that I couldn't have kids.

Duncan stole my innocence.

He stole my family from me, but he's not going to steal the fact that I can bring children into this world, and that makes me happy.

She said, I think it's just kind of, you know, that I lived for a reason.

I know there's a reason I'm on this planet, and I want to help other people.

She says she wants to go to college and become a counselor.

She said, I've had a lot of counselors that don't have a lot of experience with either a troubled kid or kids that have gone through trauma.

They're very inexperienced.

I feel like I can help a lot of people.

She also said she wants to write a book

to inspire other survivors.

She said, he doesn't define my life anymore.

I'm not going to be victimized by someone who's already done so much in my life.

She said that, you know, she always thinks about her dead brothers because she's got a baby that's going to be a boy coming.

So she thinks about her dead brothers.

A trust fund set up for Shasta right after she was rescued has been used for housing therapy and counseling and other expenses through the years.

It is dwindling and she doesn't have a lot of money at this point either in 2015.

She said there's a lot of people who may want to reach out to help her.

They said you can visit her, GoFundMe.

She's got a baby registry and all this type of shit.

They said, do you think that, what do you think is the right punishment for him?

Rotting in prison, the death penalty.

What would you like to see?

And Shasta said, I agree with the death penalty, but I wish it was more like the older days death penalties.

What does that mean?

Shasta.

Draw and quarter him.

I know that the two wrongs don't make a right, but I feel he should be able to feel what he put others through.

Shasta has the right to feel like that.

I mean, she's was tortured.

She said, on Saturday, I'll be 26 weeks pregnant with my son.

His name is Lorenzo.

I don't know if it's just completely different.

I feel like my whole mindset has changed now.

I'm very focused on my son.

Every time I make a decision, I think how this is going to impact my family.

I think my mother instinct is kicking in.

She also met Elizabeth Smart in 2012 at a conference and talked to that.

They talked together.

She said, I really liked her.

You could tell that nothing could tear her down and that her goal, she was so goal-oriented and wanted to help others.

She's definitely a part of my life in a way that she doesn't know about.

Holy shit.

This is fucking wild.

So I have another blog here, but I think I'm going to skip that

blog because we're almost out of time here.

But he's talking about

that one is ridiculous.

Okay, 2018, Shasta's family's house fight here.

A house in Court d'Alene was supposed to be a gift for Shasta, okay?

But more than a decade later, the house is entangled in litigation and is likely to be sold.

Oh my god.

Yeah, it's fucking ridiculous.

It was held in a charitable trust.

She and her father began living there in 2007 when she was 10.

Now she's 21 and living in

the Boise area.

Judge is expected to decide whether her family has any right to stay at the home.

Steve, her father, who battled throat cancer and lives on disability payments, was served an eviction

notice last summer sparking a legal battle.

This is a fucking mess, man.

That's wild.

So they go all into that, and that's a mess.

She said, I've always considered it to be our home, not just mine or the trusts.

And it's my wish that my father continues to reside there as long as he wishes.

They said, once she moved out, then they had to yank it.

It wasn't, the father couldn't live there.

It was only for her.

Crazy.

Fucking ridiculous.

It's asinine.

So I'm not sure exactly, but he said I could be homeless in three weeks.

Okay, one quick thing here.

2018 blog.

Will the real perverts please stand up?

Okay.

Okay.

The lie that the system wants us to believe is that consensual adult child sex is unnatural, unhealthy, and harmful to the child.

There's no such thing.

No such thing, asshole.

The so-called victims are literally brainwashed into believing that they have been harmed.

They're told what they should feel, think, and even remember about the bad thing that's happened to them.

If you've ever seen a video of the classic first interview of a child victim of sex abuse, then you've seen this happening.

This goes on and on about how this is bullshit.

Another article that I won't read is called Holy Children, Holy Shit.

It's saying how we put children on this pedestal and they're actually pieces of shit and this is ridiculous.

They're not gods.

They're nothing.

They're fucking little people and fuck them, basically.

Oh, boy.

It's wild.

I'll put that one

in the Patreon.

Then also, here's one.

Pedophile hypocrisy.

What are you talking about?

Why do women shave their body hair?

Why do they use makeup

so their eyes look big, their cheeks flush, and lips red?

When a woman wants to appeal to a man, why does she revert to a girlishly high voice, including childish lilts and inflections complete with demure looks?

All these things have one common factor.

They all mimic the characteristics of sexually immature children.

And yet, in our culture, we accept a woman's attempt to deduce, I think he means seduce, men with immature traits, so it were, though it were perfectly natural, while at the same time, condemn the men who dare to admit they're sexually aroused by real children and call them pedophiles.

I'm not suggesting anything here about whether or not I'm right or wrong, only asking why, because it is.

Okay.

2019 federal executions resume.

Yeah.

Yeah.

After reading that, fuck, someone needs to kill this guy.

He has a day-to-day on death row blog that we'll talk about on the on the thing there.

Kind of talks about how death row is and all that fucking bullshit there.

And then early 2021, maybe there is a god.

Duncan has terminal brain cancer.

Oh, wow.

There you go, jet.

He's life expectancy of six to 12 months, they said.

Wow.

March 28th, 2021, fucking dead.

Didn't make it three months.

Oh, wow.

Dead as a fucking doornail.

Wow.

Anthony's mother, the kid he killed, said, the sun is brighter today.

My soul is lighter.

The world is a more beautiful place without the evil that is Joseph Duncan.

2024, Shasta's trailer burns down.

Look at this.

This is so sad.

Jesus, that's

terrible.

She now has four kids and a burned-down trailer.

Oh, my God.

She has a GoFundMe.

She had reached, as of April 4th, 2024, she had reached $43,000 of a $100,000 goal.

But maybe we can help her out a little bit.

This poor girl.

And you can buy on Amazon volumes one through five of the fifth nail, the journals of Joseph Edward Duncan III.

Where the fuck does that go?

Amazon hardcover $31.

I have no fucking idea.

Hopefully to Shasta at this point.

So anyway, there you go.

There is Idaho and some crazy shit.

I'm going to get through the end real fucking quick here.

Go to shutupandgivemeurder.com, get your tickets for live shows, rate, review, do all that shit.

We are at Small Town Murder on Instagram, at Smalltown Pod on Facebook.

For certain, get Patreon, patreon.com/slash crimeinsports is where you get all the bonus material.

Five bucks and above gets you all sorts of hundreds of bonus episodes, new ones every other week.

This week, which you're going to get for crime and sports, we're going to talk about soccer riots, the worst ones that have happened.

You get access to that.

And then for for Small Town Murder, we're going to go into this asshole's blog even further and hear his crazy fucking thoughts.

PatreonTarrant.com slash crime in sports.

And you get a shout out, which is right now, Jimmy, hit me with the names of the most wonderful goddamn people in the world who would never do any of the shit that happened today on this episode.

Hit me with them right now.

This week's executive producer, Gary Howard, happy hour checking in in Menton, Mentoni.

I think it's Menton, Texas.

That sounds so bleak.

Oh, boy.

Ashley McCann, happy birthday, Decann.

Ashley, happy birthday.

Happy birthday.

That's fantastic.

Happy birthday.

Betty Better Beat It.

I don't know what that means.

Betty Better Beat It.

That sounds fantastic.

Fantastic.

Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Janice Hill, Jimmy Chrisman, the fellow that I went to high school with, evidently.

Somebody decided to donate in his name in his honor because I fucking hate him.

Samantha Beckham, Michelle Aldrich, Sharon Yandole.

Yandahl.

Yandoli?

Yandahl.

Matt Dennis, Jessica Hansen.

Jill Sanders.

Sylvia Check, I think.

Danny

Ingleby.

Danny Ingleby.

Eric Metcalf.

Not that one.

Oh, it's Medcalf, not with the Trump.

Oh, that's what the old punt returner.

The old Browns punt returner.

The Browns.

Yeah, the Browns.

Jennifer Kaluzny.

Carolyn with no last name.

Audrey with no last name.

Melinda Welles.

What wheelis?

Danielle Tamasazewski.

Tomaserski.

Jesus Christ.

Brooke with with no last name, Jennifer Perado, Emily Dobert, Karen Smith, Philly with no last name, Wanda Taylor, Chrissy Fitzgerald, Rob Thomas, Thompson.

Not Rob.

All right.

Who's Rob Thomas?

Is he even the matchbox?

That's the 20 nights.

That's the Matchbox 20 guy.

This picture of him standing next to Sinbad.

And always sunny.

He's a big fan of ours.

Johan Ornberg.

Johan.

Johan Ornberg.

J.R.

with no last name.

What did you say?

Johan.

Johan.

Johan.

That's what it is.

Johann.

Johann.

How American am I?

Brittany Pollett.

Warren Dudley.

Hannah LeClair.

Dash Hagga Hogaboom.

Nicole Arrington.

Mike Becker.

DC, Ashley H.

Sarah Joy, Neil Nelly, Nelly O.

Jen O'Brien, Show with no Last Name.

Jonathan Lavelle.

Brian Talbert.

Talbert, Skye, Skye Murphy, Jenna Rittenhouse, Vicki Stern, Jay Learn, Lenning, Laning, maybe, Haley Powell, Chris with no last name, Timothy Fraley, Luke Turner, Lucas Peterson, Maureen Cortwright, Ellen, Ellen, Ellen Maffey Hardy, Christy Coffey with no last name.

No, that is the last name.

Haley with no last name.

That's where I was going.

My brain was a name ahead.

Kathleen Potts, Harry Rigolot.

That feels like you're trying to get me to say something gross, and I don't think it is.

Stephanie Packard, Andy Nelson, Linda Linda, Linda, Linda, Linda, honey, Mike Laney.

Katie Journey, Christopher Jones, Tim with no last name.

Stephen T.

K D C S Sean with no last name.

Allie Cross, Charles C.

Hill, Memory Hess, Christopher Mackey, Big Perm 1970, Man in Space, Saskia with no last name, Kramer and his Cougar Milf.

All right.

I'll take your word for it.

Allie with no last name.

Send some pictures.

I got to fucking judge this if I got to say it.

Ty Warner.

Ty Wayner, maybe it's Warner.

I may have missed an R.

That might be Ty Wayner.

Jessica Lee, maybe Leah.

Samantha Baker.

Jason

Parti Pilio.

Partipilo.

Brian Wilges.

Ron with no last name.

John

Polichuk.

Kristen Thomas.

Laura Gangol.

Gongol.

Gator Hayter.

Mike with no last name.

Mike Ole with no last name.

Steven Rasmussen.

John Billad.

Bladder.

Blad.

Katie Souther.

Shane Rainey.

Yeah, Rainey.

What?

All right.

Amari DeJoy Burbridge.

What the fuck?

M.

Freeman, give me hot sauce.

Fucking hard.

Hout sauce.

Fucking hard.

Is how is that dirty?

Is that the howt sauce?

I don't know.

Yeah.

Is it like filthy in like Britain or something?

Jacob Schlamer, Summer Ross, Bridget Toon, maybe Tooney.

John Lenderman, Tim

Lattalupi,

Latulip, Latulip,

Nancy Meese, Courtney, Jack Way, Nicole Falcone, Stacey Andrews, Ben Rash, Summer Barnes, Vivian Harrah,

H.

V.

Kway.

I don't know what that means.

Bailey Denham.

Finn is God, James.

I just learned that today.

Lucy Roberts, Alina Koskinen, Alina, Kayla Christensen, Samantha

Raspanti, Christy Higgins, Chris Orr, Cedar Rabidou, Holly Birdsall, Alyssa, Alyssa Kitchen, Samantha Driscoll, Demetris Davis, Blaise Bradshaw, Robert Sanborn, Dallas Martin, Colleen Berg, Samantha with no last name, Jeannie Enzi, and all of our patrons.

You're the best.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, everybody.

From the bottom of our cold, dead hearts, we appreciate the fuck out of what you do for us.

Please, please don't do anything bad to people or kids or anything else.

We beg of you.

You want to follow us on social media, shutup and givememurder.com.

Drop-down menus take you where you want to go.

Thank you so much.

And until next week, everybody, it has been our pleasure.

Bye.

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This is Larry Flick, owner of the Floor Store.

Labor Day is the last sale of the summer, but this one is our biggest sale of the year.

Now through September 2nd, get up to 50% off store-wide on carpet, hardwood, laminate, waterproof flooring, and much more.

Plus two years interest-free financing, and we pay your sales tax.

The Floor Stores Labor Day sale.

Don't let the sun set on this one.

Go to floorstores.com to find the nearest of our 10 showrooms from Santa Rosa to San Jose.

The Floor Store, your area flooring authority.