#593 - Jerry Springer Show Murder - Sarasota, Florida

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This week, in Sarasota, Florida, a visit to the Jerry Springer show causes a love triangle to spin out of control, ending up in a brutal murder and fingers pointed in many directions.

Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

Yay!

Oh, yay, indeed, Jimmy.

Yay, indeed.

My name is James Petrogallo.

I'm here with my co-host.

I'm Jimmy Wistman.

Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today.

We have a crazy episode for you.

I don't even think I need to say that anymore.

I'll just stop saying that.

If you're tuning in, it's crazy.

Trust us.

You don't know.

Hang tight.

You'll find out.

You'll find out.

It's wild stuff.

We'll get to that, though.

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That said, also listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports.

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One crime in sports, one small-town murder.

And how much of that do they get, Jimmy?

Every damn bit.

Every last second of it.

That's right.

This week, what we're going to do for crime and sports, we are going to talk about some college coach sex scandals because they are horny, those college coaches, man.

I'll tell you what, they're super horny, and it doesn't matter if it's players or other people or faculty, they're into it.

And then for Small Town Murder, we are going to delve into the last meals of some death row inmates.

We did this before years ago.

We did some of the famous ones.

We're going to dive into some of the less famous ones this week.

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dive and delve.

I mixed them together.

We're delving into that.

We're delving.

We're diving and delving.

We're diving and delving into that.

So check that out.

That's going to be a lot of fun.

That's always a great question.

What would your last meal be?

So we'll talk about that and more.

Patreon.com slash crime in sports.

That said, disclaimer time.

Yeah.

This is a comedy show, everybody.

We are comedians.

We're going to make jokes, but every second of the show, every detail is real, very meticulously researched.

And yeah, we don't make anything up for comedic effect or anything like that.

And you might say, well, how to true crime and comedy mix easily.

It's a stupid thing to say you think you can get away with murder.

It's a dumb idea.

I think I can do.

No, no, no.

Everything's going to be fine.

I'll get the insurance.

That's a stupid idea.

It's just stupid.

And what we don't do is we never make fun of the victim or the victim's family.

Why, James?

Because we're assholes.

But.

But we're not scumbags.

See how that works?

It's real simple.

It's a real easy way to do that.

So if you think that you want to hear a crazy story, you're going to hear one.

If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever, ever, ever go together.

Well, maybe we're not for you, but maybe we are.

I think maybe you might not be giving it a chance.

Either way, no complaining later.

That said, I think it's time, everybody.

Let's all sit back.

Here we go.

Let's clear the lungs.

Arms to the sky.

And let's all shout.

Shut up

and give me murder.

Let's do this, everybody.

Let's go on a trip, shall we?

We are going down to Sarasota this week.

Sarasota, Florida.

That's right.

It is south of Tampa down there, southwestern Florida.

It's about an hour to Tampa, to be exact.

About three and a half hours to Miami, if you go the other way, which doesn't seem like it should take that long.

Yeah.

I was messing up with Pensacola, which I've heard is nice.

I doubt it.

But yeah.

And then the panhandle?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm going to leave it up.

It's up north of Tampa.

Yeah, yeah.

It's about two hours and 45 minutes to Fort Pierce, Florida, our last episode, which was Murky Murder Motives.

That's the name of it.

That was the attorney that was found in that shed all burned with acid.

And that was a crazy goddamn story.

That was wild.

This is in Sarasota County.

Area code is 941.

And they have several mottos and nicknames and things like that.

One is May Sarasota Prosper.

That's a motto.

May it?

I don't know.

Make it happen.

Make it happen, man.

The next is Where Urban Amenities Meet Small Town Living.

There you go.

And then finally, Circus City.

Circus City.

Circus City.

That's right.

And there's a reason for that.

Circus, yeah.

Circus.

Now, the origin of the name, a little bit of history here, is disputed.

Most of these old town names, unless they were named in the last hundred years, they're all disputed.

So some claim that it's based on DeSoto's daughter Sarah, the conquistador De Soto, his daughter Sarah, claiming that, and others claim that it came from Sarah Dakota, meaning an area of land easily observed in the language of the indigenous tribe that was there.

Yeah, it's probably that

seems, I don't even know.

It seems like they probably would miss,

you know, what am I looking for here?

Translate.

Yeah, I guess.

That's the best way to put it.

Yeah, mistranslation was going to be.

Yeah, so I don't know.

Who cares?

Either way.

So around

1883, the Florida Mortgage and Investment Company of Edinburgh bought 60,000 acres for development in Sarasota.

And Scottish people started coming because they were

up in Scotland, so they were selling these plots of land.

Is it wet up here?

You look, it's cloudy every day, cold.

Check out what we got.

And they would sell these people.

So when it's weird, though, when you think of Sarasota or southern Florida, you think Scottish right away, right?

Indeed, yeah.

Which is funny because we know a guy with a Scottish accent that if you ask him where he's from, he goes, Tampa.

You're like, okay, sure.

Very funny.

That's very funny.

So now from 1911 onward, a couple came here, Mabel and John Ringling.

That name sounds familiar.

Circus City, Ringling, Ringling Brothers.

Oh,

Ringling is their last name.

Got it.

They would spend their winters here and eventually purchased a large parcel of property for their permanent winter headquarters here.

And

they attracted several members of the Ringling family to Sarasota as a winter retreat.

I assume brothers were involved in this.

I imagine.

And

the Ringling Brothers were very wealthy, but when they came to Sarasota, they hadn't started ⁇ they hadn't had circus wealth yet.

Basically, the Ringling Brothers circuses were just like a bunch of ⁇ they did them once in a while here and there.

They weren't consolidated under an entity of ⁇ it didn't necessarily have a schedule.

Yeah, it wasn't Ringling Brothers circus or Barnum and Bailey or whatever the fuck it is now.

So Charles Ringling, one of the brothers and his wife Edith, built a big bayfront winter retreat there and all that kind of thing.

And then the guy died, took years to build, and then he died right after it finished.

Can you imagine that?

Now I can finally enjoy it.

And you drop fucking dead.

That's what's going to happen with these shows.

Yeah.

Finally enjoy my fucking life and then I'm going to drop goddamn dead as soon as I don't have to.

I imagine

that's the first time I'm going to watch it.

As soon as I fucking don't have to stay up every day till 6 a.m.

doing work,

I'm going to drop right dead.

I know.

Done.

Done it.

It's the George Costanza thing of I knew God could never make me a success.

He'd kill me first before he'd make me a success.

I had a friend that retired, James, and two weeks later, he was dead.

Yeah, that's what I mean.

He had so many plans.

So many plans.

September 2022, Hurricane Ian made landfall here.

And people in Tampa, because we were there right before that, and they were real cocky.

2002?

2022.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

People were real cocky about how hurricanes never hit this coast and ah, get the fuck out of here.

I don't care what the weather

never happened.

They were, I mean,

downright arrogant, and then it came right through.

And it was bad.

Yeah.

So this was a bad one, too.

It was winds exceeding 85 miles an hour within Sarasota County, the 200-mile an hour windfield.

It was a lot.

10 years ago.

They made landfall here in Fort Myers, right?

I don't know about Fort Myers.

I just know about that.

I think it was the two of these places.

I wasn't studying Fort Myers for this one, but that sounds

right, though.

The county suffered 10 fatalities due to the storm, making it the second highest county for casualties behind Lee County, which is just tons of trailers.

So that would make a lot of sense if you ever watch

on patrol.

Lee County is, that's when they asked a guy, where's your truck?

And he pointed and went, yonder.

That's, I swear to God, he said that.

Famous people in this town.

There's a bunch.

The Ringlings, obviously.

And another circus act, Nick Walenda, of the, we heard about him a lot in the Evil Can Evil episode of the Wallenda brothers, who did all the high wire shit there.

We had him.

Pee-wee Herman is from here, Paul Rubens.

What?

Grew up in Sarasota, and it was where he was arrested for whacking off in a theater.

Yeah.

Which is the dumbest thing ever.

Jerry Springer.

He got arrested in Florida for that.

Yeah, at his hometown.

Jesus.

Hometown.

Jerry Springer had a big giant house here during his whole height of everything and lived here for a long time.

And finally, if you were a fan of wrestling at all, obviously Randy Macho Man Savage,

who was actually from Illinois, I think, but you know,

Sarasota, Florida was where they announced him from.

So reviews of this town, because I've never been to Sarasota.

It might be great.

Let's find out.

Five stars.

Here we go.

Sarasota has it all.

Nice.

store or restaurant you can imagine well that's everything stores and restaurants we have lots of fun things to do beautiful parks amazing beaches and so many walking paths the legacy trail connects Sarasota all the way to Venice that's a long way Venice it's got to be about six seven thousand miles right yeah or three thousand the other direction there's a Venice Florida apparently too and it's great for biking other than that the traffic because everyone loves Sarasota I don't have many many complaints for the area i will say the public schools are awful but that seems to be a theme in florida

yeah it does yeah they they they pride themselves on that it's on the flag uh two stars here this is an angry person overpopulated by everyone moving here and then in parentheses mostly from the northeast okay i bet your house is worth twice as much as it was before you like that probably yeah traffic crashes non-stop schools getting overcrowded crime is growing crazily homeless all over.

Everywhere you look, a new unaffordable neighborhood or apartment building is being erected, but the infrastructure is not keeping up.

As others have said, there's stuff to do and cool places to eat, but it's overwhelming to try to even go to them, especially on the weekends.

Forget about the beaches.

Get there by 8 or you're not getting a parking space in the actual beach parking lot.

Gee, people would want to go to sand near an ocean.

Weird, I can't imagine.

I've lived here my whole life, many decades, and I take my beach vacations elsewhere.

It's so stressful living here.

It used to be nice.

Not now.

My only hope is to sell my house to some fool from New York willing to pay too much and make me rich so I can live somewhere nice.

All right.

This is the person that heard some media somewhere and just fucking bought every bit of it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

One star.

If you're thinking about moving to Florida, don't.

I'm from Boston and I've seen the strangest things on earth here.

Rude people.

Everyone has two jobs.

Crazy drivers, beyond expensive, poor pay, high rent, constant building of more chain restaurants.

Weird people.

Stay up north.

This place is bizarre.

Think Twilight Zone weird.

Okay.

So nobody that he knows from Boston is going to buy that other person's house, I don't think.

People in this town, 53,786.

Big, yeah, it's growing.

A big town, but not a city, you know, not a giant city or anything like that.

Small, small city.

There's a lot more women than men here.

Almost like 53.5% women.

I don't know how that happened, but that's a lot of way out of whack with the normals here.

Median age here is 49,

which is

about 12 years older than the national average.

And, you know, it's Florida.

What do you want?

A lot of old people come here.

And this area, the Tampa area, is also has a lot of retirement homes and retirement villages.

But my grandmother had a place down there.

That's where, so it makes sense to me.

Family here, about 41% are married, which is below the national average.

21%

have children but are single, and that's like double the national average.

Race in this town, 64.8% white, 13.7% black, 1.4% Asian, 18.3% Hispanic.

So it's almost like if you took the breakdowns nationally, that's exactly kind of within a couple percentage points what they are.

That's interesting.

Religion in this town, 44% religious, and it is going to be Catholics taking the

people from the northeast and

people from whatever, you know, Hispanic people.

And so you get that.

You're going to get a lot of Catholics here.

As we know, Catholics are the Baptists of

the Gulf Coast region.

I don't know.

Very weird here.

Sarasota has an unemployment rate a little bit below the national average, but the median household income is also below the national average.

It's $62,615,

which the national average is about $69,000.

So there's that.

Cost of living, regular is $100,000 that's average across the country.

Here it's $105,000,

which doesn't seem that bad.

The housing is actually the high thing.

People used to move to Florida because it was cheap.

That was the reason people moved there.

It's cheap and it's sunny.

Great.

I'm moving there.

No more shoveling.

But the median home cost here is $454,200.

Golly, that's not cheap at all.

That's not cheap at all.

So if you said, damn it, I don't care.

I'm going to the crowded beach and the strip mall restaurant.

I'm coming to Sarasota.

We have for you the Sarasota, Florida Real Estate Report.

Average two-bedroom rental here goes for $1,580, which is

a couple hundred over the national average.

That's high.

Here's a two-bedroom, two-bath, 1,480-square-foot house.

Not bad at all from the outside.

Kind of looks like the Golden Girls' house a little bit.

If you remember that from the opening credits, that's kind of what it looks like a little bit.

Not bad.

I mean, the furniture inside's a little bit weird.

You can tell that it's not.

You could tell someone moved here from somewhere else.

It looks like they took their Massachusetts furniture and put it in a house in Florida.

We're running a beach community now.

Not bad.

$199,000 for that, though.

Okay.

Not too bad.

For some work.

Almost 1,500 square feet.

Here's a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,802 square feet.

It's a nice house.

It's not a huge house, but it's a nice house.

Looks very Florida, the Spanish tile roof

inside the big, like, you know, 14-inch by 14-inch tiles.

You know what I mean?

That kind of thing.

Very Florida looking altogether.

$625,000.

And there's no land, too.

This isn't like, you know, two acres or anything like that.

It is just expensive.

Highway robbery.

Wow.

You want to talk about highway robbery?

Six bedroom, nine bath, t-ball for all your b-holes, each and every b-hole here.

Even if you got two.

Even if you got two b-holes coming out.

Yeah.

8,929 square feet.

That's enormous.

That is ridiculous.

That's four houses.

That's crazy.

Four good-sized houses, that is.

1.82 acres right on the fucking beach.

I mean, yeah, your yard, your yard, there's grass, and then it runs into sand, and then there's the fucking crashing waves.

It's ridiculous.

Very silly.

It's, I mean, it's really nice.

It could be like a hotel or something.

It looks like when you see like pictures of the Diddy parties, this is where it was.

This is one of like a house that, like, a Diddy party.

Glass panels on the patios that are upstairs.

It's, yeah.

The floor slippery with lube everywhere afterwards.

One of those type of things.

$24,700,000.

Okay.

Who the fuck owns that?

That is crazy.

It's for sale now.

I don't know.

Apparently, Pitbull is looking to make a change.

I'm not sure.

Starting to get closer to Miami.

I don't know if that is or further away.

Maybe.

Things to do here.

Okay.

We got some circus stuff, first of all.

Yeah.

The Circus Arts Conservatory.

What is that?

It's a circus college.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Does it want to be a dip shit clown?

You can do this.

I wonder if this is the one that Steve-O went to because he went to clown college in Florida.

Oh, my God.

Well, that's probably where a lot of them are, I would think.

Yeah.

It says, providing some of the most anticipated events in our area, the Circus Arts Conservatory leads the way in cultivating an enriching circus legacy on Florida.

Enriching circus legacy, Florida's Gulf Coast.

Enjoy everything from professional world-class circus arts productions to Sailor Circus Academy productions of the greatest little show on earth.

Yeah.

They have a circus arts class, which are offered throughout the week for all experience levels.

Our one-of-a-kind summer camps teach children circus arts disciplines and then showcase their new skills with a costume performance.

Oh, look at that.

Remember?

Costumed performance.

Kids would like to run away to join the circus.

Who's encouraging their child to do circus arts?

Like, who's bringing your kid there?

That's wild.

Grow up.

That's fucking weird.

It's a non-profit, too.

educational performing arts organization all right how about the circus museum yeah yeah it says run away to the circus

don't do that immerse yourself in circus history be wowed by incredible human and animal feats study the amazing logistics of circus management or try your hand at walking the wire just circus museums with no net vast and varied collections are on a view on view throughout two different buildings.

Jesus Christ.

They have two built.

This is too much circuit, man.

Circus, I mean.

Jesus Christ.

Be sure to visit the newest exhibit, The Greatest Show on Earth Gallery.

Holy shit.

Well, let's get away from that and go to something completely different.

The Sarasota Reggae and Food Festival.

There we go.

That sounds much better.

There's going to be weed smoke in the air.

This is much better for me rather than clowns and pictures of clowns.

So if it says if relaxing, having fun, enjoying good food, and listening to great live music music over the weekend sounds like your perfect plan,

then join us at the Sarasota, Ray Gay, and Food Festival.

It said the fun and relaxation

begins Friday evening from 4 to 10 p.m.

Sounds great.

Free admission.

Yeah.

Outdoor event, pet-friendly.

This is fantastic.

You choose foods from a diverse menu of barbecue and meat dishes, as well as all sorts of other shit.

There's booze.

It's great.

Entertainment schedule.

This is last last year's because they don't have this year's yet.

Johnny Long.

Long.

I'm waiting for more there.

Nothing else.

Nothing else.

Doug Deming and the Jewel Tones.

Nope.

Sean Chambers.

Never.

Gary Memphis Rub.

Not a word.

Is that referring to barbecue or is cock?

Which one?

I gave it the old Memphis rub right in her face.

You know what I mean?

I got it in her eye, though.

It felt bad.

Joey Gilmore.

Yeah.

Memphis Lightning.

Okay.

Frank Bang.

Put him together with Gary Memphis Rub and you got something.

The old banging rub.

The Lee Boys.

They've got to have them.

Them Lee Boys

coming on in.

Bridget Kelly band, J.P.

Soars and the Red Hots.

Sounds like it's familiar.

A-R-S.

S-O-A-R-S.

All right.

Yeah.

Put him with Gary Memphis Rub and Frank Bang.

JP Soars.

Where's Johnny Long, Don?

Where's he at?

Oh, he's just Johnny Long now.

He left the dong off now.

I'm sorry.

I didn't know.

Last time I performed with him, he was still dong.

I don't know.

And Mike Huns, All-Stars.

H-U-N-D-S Hund.

Mike Huns, All-Stars.

Okay.

There we go.

Crime rate in this town.

What we are interested in here.

Property crime is almost twice the national average.

It is a lot.

God damn.

It is high.

That is not good, my friends.

That's bad.

And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault.

The Mount Rushmore of crime.

Also, this is slightly above average, but not out of control like the property crime numbers.

That's still up there, though.

So, anyway, that said, let's talk about some murder.

Let's do this here.

Okay.

Let's head back.

Let's set the scene here and head back to July 24th, 2000.

Yeah.

25 years.

So trying to think.

Internet, yes, not high speed.

Yeah, and

not on your phone.

You have a phone, but it's only for calling people.

And you're wearing stupid clothes.

Very stupid clothes.

You're also, the phone is for calling people, not for texting.

2000 is like pre-even cameras on your phone.

This is just, it's a phone.

It wasn't.

You call people.

And if there was, it was pixely as fuck.

Yeah, it was like people started getting them a lot like 2002-ish, that kind of thing.

That was like really when they blew up.

But I mean, I'm sure that one existed, but I mean, mean, yeah, you couldn't see shit on it.

Those old camera phones were terrible.

The pictures are awful.

Awful, awful.

So on this day, police are called.

It's about 7.30 p.m.

Yeah.

And police are called to 2827 Grand Cayman Street in Sarasota.

And they are called by two different neighbors

saying two different things, too.

Oh.

The main takeaway is: you guys need to get your asses over to this house.

Why is disputed, but get over there?

One neighbor reports hearing a man and a woman fighting, and a woman yelling, don't do this, and all this sort of thing.

And then another

report from a neighbor,

they report to the police that two women are fighting

and that there's some sort of domestic

thing going on in this house, and they need to get over there.

So the police come in.

When they try to get in, because they've heard there's violence inside, they can go in basically

here so probable cause is that what that is yeah that there's a something bad happening in here plus somebody saw said they looked in the window and saw blood and all this stuff so

they're going in the house now they try to get in the door it's barricaded you know the door is barricaded which is a bad sign right away from the inside from the inside yeah well barricading from the outside would be much less

we're not letting anybody in it's yeah there's a you could just move the stuff and open the door from the inside that wouldn't be that'd be pretty worthless.

Best of luck, fuckers.

Yeah, take that.

All right.

Well, you get the other end of this desk.

I'll get it.

Okay, move that out of the way.

I'll push this fridge.

All right, then.

Should we go in now?

Okay, good.

We'll help.

So they bust in open.

They bust in through the barricades.

They have to really kick the, you know, push through it and everything.

And they find the only person home is a woman, and she's definitely not in any state to complain or give a statement.

She is on the floor in a pool of blood, absolutely dead and beaten so severely about the face that she

is like an unrecognizable person.

Like no one could look at her and go, oh, I know who that is.

It's impossible.

She's been just absolutely mangled and mauled.

And it's horrifying what's happened to this woman.

I mean, several cops said it's the worst thing they've ever seen.

Several of the

responding cops said it's the worst crime scene I've ever been to.

Most horrifying gave me nightmares type of shit.

Not good.

Okay.

Now let's so now we got that.

Now that's going on.

They're obviously trying to figure out how the hell that happened.

Now let's set the table with some people here.

Okay.

Let's go back in time away from that.

That's in 2000, January 24th.

We'll go back in time and meet some people.

Let's meet Nancy Campbell.

Nancy Campbell is born in 1948.

And you should see her pictures too, like some of her high school pictures.

She's just that total mid-60s, like swoopy thing at the bottom of her hair.

You know what I mean?

That like whatever the hell, not a beehive, but that like...

No, it's like, I don't know, it's fucking, it's Jackie O.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, kind of bang walls and a little swoopy dupe on the end there.

So now she grows up, she gets married young

and has two children, has two young boys.

And, you know, this is a woman who got married in the mid-60s.

Yeah.

Just doing what you're supposed to do back then, you know, graduate school, get married, have kids, have a nice life in a family.

And that's

the sitcom, the 50s sitcom here.

But the problem is when the children are very young, they had their kids pretty much right away.

When the children are very young, Nancy's husband dies.

Oh, no.

Yeah, and he's young.

They're both young.

I mean, they're in their 20s when he dies.

This is a horrible tragedy, obviously.

So now Nancy is left with two sons.

And,

you know,

obviously financially, it's not great.

If you're a single mom in the mid-60s, you're...

Yeah, your prospects aren't wonderful for, you know, high-paying employment and that sort of thing.

Now, she has a son named Jeffrey.

and a son named Gary.

Now, this is in Michigan, by the way, they're living.

They're living in Michigan.

Hey, everybody.

Just going to take a quick quick break from the show to give you a better way to shop with Thrive Market.

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Okay.

And Jeffrey said, quote, that Nancy was just a really good mother, saying, my dad died when I was just a toddler, so she raised me and my brother by herself.

She's a strong, independent, and just a great person.

And that's kind of everybody's take on Nancy.

She's a very nice lady.

And when you look at her, she's like, just looks like a nice lady.

She's like kind of short and just looks like,

has a face that looks like, you know, she'd be like, she'd be friendly if she was checking you out at the supermarket or something.

Looks like a nice lady.

So

She doesn't like attention at all.

She's kind of quiet, keeps to herself, that sort of thing too.

In fact, they said that she was a very reserved person, didn't even like having her picture taken.

So she would like hide her face.

She didn't want to have her picture taken.

She's too shy, basically.

Didn't really date at all while the kids were growing up either.

Really?

Husband died, and she just...

That's it.

I'm mom now.

And didn't really date at all until the kids are grown up and out of the house.

Let them leave and then I'll worry about me.

She has like no interest in men after that.

So it's pretty interesting.

It's that she seemed content to be alone and to raise her kids and just be fine.

Now, 1996 comes around.

Let's fast forward to there.

The kids are grown up now.

She's just kind of a lonely lady sitting in her house.

You know, she's, what, in her 40s here?

She's 48 years old.

She's lonely.

I don't blame her.

She doesn't want to, if she's only 48, but she feels like she's living like she's 65 and she's just going to be lonely for the next, she could live 40 more years for Christ's sake.

She's going to

sit there and be lonely and miserable for 40 years.

She's probably going to be trimmed down tremendously by being miserable, but

probably right around 30 years if you're depressed.

Yeah, yeah, if you're that depressed.

But if you start dating and you're happy, maybe 50 years.

Who knows?

Sometimes if you're miserable enough, you persist, though.

That's the thing.

The misery keeps you alive.

Like I always had my one grandmother just was kept alive by anger and like piss and vinegar and

anger.

Whenever she would be mean and angry, I'd be like, she's fine.

Okay, that's good.

That was a good sign that like things are okay.

Oh, good.

She's making horrible racist comments.

That means that she's feeling okay.

That's good.

She's too nice.

That means she's thinking about death and she's going to none of that shit.

So 1996, Nancy's friends turn her on to AOL chat rooms.

Here we go.

Here we go.

And this is a lonely lady sitting there discovering a whole new world.

And

in the 90s, these chat rooms, I mean, now it's apps and shit like that, but these chat rooms in the 90s were people met like crazy on every fucking chat room.

They were everything.

So she meets a specific man on the internet.

Yeah.

So, and then she's made a good life for herself and, you know, all that kind of thing.

She was never interested in dating or remarrying before this, but now she's on the internet.

She's fucking around in AOL chat rooms.

Yeah.

And she connects with a man.

He is a German man.

Oh.

Not just from Germany, living in Germany and born in Germany.

Oh, he's in Germany.

And in Germany.

Yeah.

Absolutely German as shit.

He's not for the internet.

Yeah.

How else would you meet this guy?

His name is Ralph Panitz.

Ralph is R-A-L-F.

Right, the Germans.

None of this P-H shit here.

Right for the F.

Ralph Panitz, P-A-N-I-T-Z.

And he's about 12 years younger than her, but man, do they get along?

They're getting along.

He is a German painting contractor.

So that's what he does.

He's a painter, house painter.

He also found his way.

Somebody turned him on to an AOL chat room.

His screen name was Plainwell.

P-L-A-I-N-W-E-L-L.

Plainwell.

I don't know if that's like a town over there, whatever, who knows.

Look at me.

Now, Nancy goes by Cupcaking.

Plural?

Cupcakes.

Yeah.

99.

So she calls her boobs, I think.

Cupcakes right here.

One of those cheeks.

Yeah, who knows?

But

Cupcakes 99 is her name.

And somebody already had cupcakes, and she was like, Cupcakes 9.

Somebody already had cupcakes.

Cupcake 99.

God damn it, I have more than one.

99.

Hey, all right, I got it.

So, yeah, they streak, they strike up a conversation, and they start then breaking out of the chat rooms to communicate solo.

You know what I mean?

They start speaking regularly for about the next year.

This is her German internet boyfriend.

Now,

imagine being her sons.

They're like 30 at this point, you know, late 20s or whatever.

They know about the internet, I assume, probably.

You got to assume, yeah.

You come over to your mom's house and she's like, I met a German man on the internet.

You'd be like, I'm taking this computer out of your fucking house right now.

You are not No, no.

Because back

up until about

nowadays, you ask people, how'd you meet?

And they go online.

And, you know, you go, okay, you don't think twice.

They might have said, at work or here or there, it's the same thing.

If you said, even in the year 2000, never mind 97, if you said in the year 2000, oh, we met on the internet, people would go, oh my God, really?

Yeah, right.

I had a friends of mine that were a couple, and this was like 2003,

and they had they met on the internet but didn't tell anybody like he pulled me aside one day and was like I got to tell you something I was like what

he goes we he said yeah he said we didn't really meet at a bar and I was like all right he goes we met on online and I was like okay and he goes I just don't want anybody to know because people will make fun of me I'm giving he had a hard Boston accent so he goes I don't want anybody to know

I was his friend yeah he needed to tell somebody everybody and I was like okay he goes ah people are real weird about it you know what I mean I told I told my brother, and he was like, nah, nah, you shouldn't do that.

And I guess she's a nice girl, though, and blah, blah, blah.

Anyway, they ended up absolutely like getting, calling the cops on each other all the time.

And of course they were a fucking mess, these two.

But either way, back then, it was like they wouldn't even tell people they met on the internet.

They made up a backstory.

So that's how the stigma of that was.

And in 97, it was even more.

It was like, anyone you meet on the internet will murder you immediately.

You'll meet them, they'll stick a knife right in your forehead and walk away

and spray paint A-O-L on your chest and then walk away.

So they are dating, I guess you call it online dating for about a year.

And this guy, Ralph Juergen, J-U-R-G-E-N, Ralph Jürgen Panitz, he's 12 years younger than her, like we said.

Now, he was married right up until the time that he and Nancy started talking.

He just, he was married for 16 years,

but just divorced right before this.

So, like, he got a, I don't know if he got a divorce because he was meeting women on online chat rooms

or if he was meeting women because he got divorced.

I'm not sure which one it is, but.

Did AOL ruin this divorce or save his loneliness?

It doesn't really matter at this point.

So, anyway, after a year in 1997,

he flies over to the U.S.

to be with Nancy and they get married.

Oh.

Married.

Immediately.

Yeah.

It's so fast.

Yeah.

A year of talking on the internet.

He's on a plane.

He lands.

They're pretty much married right away.

Oh, boy.

Which is pretty fucking wild, honestly.

That's trusting on both of these people's parts.

I mean, if you're him, you're going to a strange goddamn country.

Strange country to be with a strange person.

What if she doesn't, you know, something happens?

Now you're in a strange country by yourself.

And what do you do?

And for her, she's importing a man this is crazy for you know back in the day so right away not a great marriage this is apparently there's a lot of fire between them both romantically and

you know argumentatively oh okay yeah yeah

there are reports fire makes for great sex and arguments that's the problem sometimes the argument leads to the sex so sometimes it's just fucking amazing if you get

the argument's foreplay is what you're like that's a maybe that might pump some people up.

Just for makeup sex.

Right away, there's reports of domestic abuse.

Right away.

Oh, that's not good.

Like, right away.

One of the, her sons said it wasn't long after their wedding that there was a domestic issue.

Ralph had thrown her on the floor and she had hit her head.

Okay.

After that, she left and filed for divorce.

You know, which is, she's just got her shit together, this lady, and she's been on her own for this long.

She doesn't need to get knocked around now by some German asshole.

So, you know, court records indicate that they,

through this, even after they separated, they would go back and forth a lot.

Like, we're talking restraining orders and then have the restraining order lifted and then another one three days later and then have it lifted a week later.

Yeah, it's a lot.

It's a real lot.

Nancy often expressed

what they call devoted love for her husband and asked him to get back together with her.

They would.

He would act like an asshole.

She would leave.

Then he would beg her back and she would come back.

And it was just back and forth with this relationship.

Everybody knows people who've been in that relationship.

I hope for your own good that it's not you if you're listening.

If you're in it, because this is a mess.

So it's never going to get better.

That's never going to be like, oh, we got that behind us.

Thank God that's done.

Nope, that's not going to happen.

So

they filed several requests for domestic violence injunctions against each other, which resulted in temporary orders that they didn't have any contact with each other, and then they would break their own orders and

one of those.

Ralph included in one of his petitions

copies of email conversations in which Nancy asked him to return to her.

One in one, he said, she said, you want me back?

I want you.

I will never stop loving you.

I know you know this.

And he wrote back, need to think about it,

which is

pretty fucking short, I think.

Vague.

It's a little terse, I think, for

you know.

Poured my heart out to you.

Let me sleep on it.

Yeah.

Hold on,

let me kick that around for a couple.

Yeah.

So she wrote back, we need counseling, though, but we can do it.

But no matter, but no other women from now on, okay?

Love you.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

I mean,

she's saying we need counseling, which is the right move, but we can do it.

She did a lot of it.

A lot.

Yeah.

And that's his whole thing is he cannot keep his German dick in his pants.

Yeah.

He can't keep his sausage out of the kraut, and that's a problem.

Because Brock needs to be in the kraut right now.

So

the email sometimes would be like angry emails back and forth, which she would accuse him of adultery and stealing from her money and shit like that, too.

And then he would accuse her of stalking him.

Why are you stalking me?

Basically, like

emailing him is stalking him to him, by the way.

I don't know if it's a language barrier or he doesn't understand what stalking is.

Yeah.

But an email isn't really, an email from your wife isn't really stalking

at that point.

Yeah, that's

a very phone then, motherfucker.

Seems overly formal, if anything, you know what I'm saying?

An email from your wife.

Sarah rarely sends me an email about a household matter.

It just doesn't really work like that.

So

court records indicate that he was arrested three times on battery charges over this time period.

And we'll talk about a couple of these here.

July of 1998.

He's really a summer batterer, as we'll find out.

He's really, he's hot in the summer.

Maybe he's from Germany.

He's not used to the heat down there.

It's hot down there in the summer.

I don't know what it is, but he.

The humidity will piss anybody off.

It really fries his fucking German circuits, man.

He can't take it.

He loses his fucking mind because either that or he's just a complete asshole.

One of the two,

which I think I'm opting for B.

He was arrested on a domestic battery charge after Nancy threatened, accused him of throwing her on the floor and threatening to kill her.

Can't do that.

Either of those things you can't do.

The charges will later be dropped by prosecutors, and that is because Nancy doesn't want to cooperate.

Very hard to get any kind of court case going if the victim won't cooperate.

It's difficult.

So

there's a series of injunctions here

that start in

July of 1998.

On July 25th, Nancy files an injunction against Ralph to keep him away from her.

Oh, boy.

So August of 1998, the next month, Ralph is with a different woman.

Oh.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

No,

he gets around.

He is.

He is like, uh, like a, like a German balloon in the wind, just floating.

That horrific accent is just bringing them all in.

Oh, it's a bad one, too.

Like, even nowadays, like, or even like 20 years later, he still, like, leaves out words and stuff.

It's funny.

So, this is August 1998.

He's with a different woman.

And this is another girlfriend who accuses him of hitting her in the lip, punched her in the mouth, she said.

Oh, boy.

Yeah.

Jesus Christ.

He was arrested on a domestic battery charge, which prosecutors later did what with, Jimmy?

What'd they do?

They dropped it.

Of course they did.

Yeah, this is a guy who just hits women, and then there's no consequences for it whatsoever.

It's wild.

So February of 1999, Ralph and Nancy divorce.

Here we go.

Official divorce going on.

Done.

Done for now.

During that same month, Ralph meets a new woman online.

All right.

He's got a new online girlfriend, a woman named Eleanor, and we'll talk about her in a little while.

More on her coming up, okay?

So, in the background of everything that's going to happen now,

he has another relationship, like an online thing going on with Eleanor.

So, just in the background, picture the clicking of keyboard keys

of a Dell computer from 1999,

a compact Presario from 1999

with a Pentium II processor in it.

Yeah.

It's got a fucking tower.

I worked in this shipping office or a shipping place that had a big computer place and it had like a shipping receiving department.

And I worked in there and I remember having to individually take out all these Pentium II processors out of these packages and like put them in other things.

And

I just remember going, wow,

these are awesome.

This is like some technology here.

This shit is so impressive.

Oh, man.

Holy fuck.

You couldn't run a fucking non-smartphone with one of those things now.

So February of 1999, that happened.

So all in the background, that's going on.

July 4th, 1999, 4th of July.

An American holiday.

Ralph gets very American here by getting arrested again.

That's pretty American, right, Ralph?

Is that just a patriotic thing when you get arrested on the 4th of July?

So he went to visit Nancy at her home in the 7,700 block of 40th Court East.

And

her,

apparently,

he was invited.

Okay.

Because they're going back and forth all the time.

So apparently she invited him over.

He didn't just kick in the door or anything like that.

And she has a roommate named John Wilbur at the time.

Nothing romantic at all, just someone to help share the bills.

Okay.

Apparently,

Ralph got in an argument with John Wilbur.

A Florida man and a German guy arguing is right away hilarious to me.

I'm sorry.

That's just funny.

That's just entertainment right there.

And Ralph escalates this beef by smashing Wilbur in the head with a motorcycle helmet.

That's American.

That's pretty fucking American.

Yeah.

To get together on the 4th of July, have some beers, and hit your estranged wife's male roommate in the head with a motorcycle helmet.

Oh, say, can

you see?

That is the most American thing that's ever happened right there.

So, by the way, he hit him as Wilbur was on the phone with 911.

So he went to call 911 to call, I'm calling the cops on you.

And he said, no, you're not.

Bash.

And he smashed him in the head with a fucking motorcycle helmet.

I bought an ambulance.

Yeah, now we both need something.

So now we're getting both ambulance and police are coming to the scene.

Now send fire, too.

Yeah.

You know what?

Just send everything you got.

Who knows what could happen by the time you get here?

You never know.

So he's initially arrested on a charge of aggravated battery because he used a weapon.

And he's always riding his motorcycle around, too.

He's got a motorcycle.

He's riding around.

Hell yeah.

It looks like a Honda or something, though.

It looks like a.

It's nothing you would like or nothing like my dad or my brother would like.

It's one of those.

Yames Dean.

James, I am James Dean.

I will crash one day, but for now, I will have all the pussy.

I will get all the women.

Charges, though, though, end up, Zoe charges, Zoe.

Charges, though, end up being downgraded to battery by the prosecutors.

Not sure why.

He would later plead no contest to the charge and was sentenced to 60 days probation.

Oh, my.

I've never heard of probation in that small of a serving.

Have you?

60 days?

What is that?

What is that?

Even when you get a DUI, you get longer probation than that.

60 days?

What is that?

$156 in fines

and 25 hours of community service.

Yeah.

That's what he got for smashing a guy in the head with a motorcycle helmet to try to prevent him from calling 911, which seems like a much bigger crime than what he got convicted of.

He's also ordered to take anger management classes and to pay restitution for Wilbur for any medical bills he might have incurred from this whole thing here.

That

next month, that's the 4th of July, so that's a memorable holiday for Nance there.

Jesus Christ.

The next month in August, on August the 14th, he is again arrested for a domestic battery offense.

And that's not, from what I understand, I don't think that's involving Nancy.

I think that's somebody else.

So Ralph is a loose German cannon, man.

He is,

wow, he's a problem at this point.

He's not if you're his wife or his girlfriend or anyone around these women for that matter.

He's not very fun.

He's a fucking mess.

So, and enter Eleanor.

Remember Eleanor, the woman he was talking online with since February?

Well, Eleanor Isaac is her name.

And she is born in 1958 here.

And

yeah,

she is also coming off a failed marriage, much like Ralph here.

And her family does not like Ralph when they get together.

No, they don't like him at all.

They, again, think that his drinking is a problem.

He loves to drink.

Not just in a casual, like, you know, European way either.

Like, he's a drunk.

You know, like

Europeans drink, but they're not drunks generally.

Yeah, that's

a different gabby, though.

They drink, but it's weird.

They know how to do it because they've been doing it.

They give kids booze there.

So it's kids never binge drink.

If you look at like England, where the age is 18,

the kids do not binge drink.

It doesn't happen over there.

They don't get deaths from alcohol poisoning and all that shit like we get in all these colleges.

They're used to it.

They just drink all the time.

Which is not a big deal.

They've had a glass of wine with dinner.

They're not overwhelmed.

Same thing.

I saw a map the other day that had the alcohol-related deaths

in all of the European countries.

Russia is like by far and ahead above everybody because it's miserable there and all you do is drink.

But places that you would associate with heavy drinking, Germany, France, Italy, the lowest rates in the entire fucking European continent.

Wow.

Because they're just used to it.

No.

Not Ireland.

That's a different thing.

That's different up there.

That's a religion.

It's different up there.

Yeah, that's to excess, but otherwise it's different.

It's weird.

So they know how to drink, except for this guy doesn't hold his booze well.

So despite her family's concerns, they also think that he might be using her for a green card to be able to keep staying here.

But she said, nope, not like that at all.

She said, we seem to have a lot in common.

We liked the same authors and movies.

We just watched Das Boot over and over.

It's just Das Boot over and and over again.

So, you know, he doesn't like anything else.

So, yeah, I don't know if that's going to, I mean, that's nice at first.

You got to have more than that.

That's a first eight.

Then why?

Yeah, that's right.

We'll have more on it, too.

It's so fucking funny because, like, Eleonora's mother said, he's too good looking.

I don't like him.

In other words,

he's too handsome for you.

Right.

Is what she's saying.

This guy's obviously using you.

You're hideous.

Which is a tough thing to hear from your mother, but

that's the type of shit.

That's the worst thing to hear.

Yeah, it's tough, but that's also the type of shit.

I don't know if her parents are foreign at all or anything, but that sounds like something my Italian grandma would say: like, what do you think that person wants with you?

That's what they'd say.

She's mean.

I'm sure it's fun, but don't count on that last thing.

He's going to leave.

She'd go, May you fat?

Why would he want you?

That's what she's.

I've heard her say that to my relatives before.

It's like, wow, you are brutal.

So, February of 2000, Nancy asks the court that her injunction against Ralph be dissolved.

Okay.

So now she wants to be able to go near him again.

She's wrote in her filing, I have no reason to fear Ralph Panitz.

So,

okay.

Everything's great.

So things seem wonderful.

February of 2000, Christ, he might be getting back together with Nancy here.

Soon, yeah.

Yeah.

Then the next month, March 17th, 2000, Ralph marries Eleanor.

Okay.

This is,

wow.

Has everybody been keeping their scorecards so far?

Yeah.

I mean, honestly, dude, you could make a huge chart with this shit, and it would,

this is a lot, dude.

So March 17th, 2000, that is.

He claimed, by the way, that in one of the court things with his ex-wife, with Nancy, that Nancy was a Jekyll and Hyde who stalked him and his new wife.

Oh.

So he claims that they got married and then all of a sudden Nancy begins stalking them.

That's what he said.

Now,

Eleanor thought that Nancy was just Ralph's ex-wife.

Didn't really realize the extent of what's been going on and that they've been getting back together and on and off.

Ralph basically tells Eleanor that Nancy is a, you know, is constant.

She's always here.

She's stalking me relentlessly.

She's a never-ending presence in my life and she won't go away and all this type of shit.

So according to Ralph, she just wouldn't leave them alone and she would follow the couple everywhere, interfering with their new life.

In fact,

he told Eleanor that we need to confront her.

This is crazy.

We can't just run away from this lady and have her stalking us is what he was saying.

So, you know,

that's one thing.

By the way, I have to give you comments that Eleanor made about her marriage to Ralph.

Oh.

She said, this is the ceremony.

It was absolutely beautiful.

It was the only wedding I've had that I cried at.

The only one.

The only wedding I've had that I cried at.

Which sounds like she said at least four, right?

That has to be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you were married.

I'm surprised that there's a cry?

Yeah.

Well, if you were married once before, you'd say, I didn't, the other time I got married, I didn't cry.

She said

The only wedding I've had that I cried at, which sounds like a cop saying, This is the worst crime scene I've ever been to.

You know, he's been to a few, you know what I mean?

It's the worst accident I've ever seen.

A guy first day on the job wouldn't say that

at all.

So, Ellie, Eleanor's sister, said, When I first met Ralph, I really wasn't impressed.

He's a drinker.

And her mother told the sister that she was concerned that Ralph was violent and an alcoholic and said, quote, he's going to kill her one day.

Oh.

That's what Eleanor's mom said.

And he's too handsome.

Listen, you ugly bitch.

Know what a guy is

using you for murder.

Know it.

Wow.

Yeah.

So her mother said, quote, I don't trust him.

He's too good looking.

He just wants you for the green card.

That was her quote.

Now, Ralph telling and Eleanor are sitting here.

What do we do?

We have to confront her.

We have to get this Nancy to stop stalking us.

How can we do that?

There's only one way to do it.

There's only one way.

Cops?

Cops.

Well, that's one way.

A friend and find

a mediator.

Yeah.

Somebody like that.

Move, not confront her.

Maybe call her up, say, hey, let's meet it.

You know, let's meet me at Chili's and we'll all sit in the booth and have some fucking, some queso dip and talk about this and clear the air.

Bottomless nachos.

That's all.

You know, it's whatever, those little egg rolls.

We'll get it all, man.

We'll go all out on apps.

It's a special occasion.

Saucy Nugs, let's go.

Let's do it.

Saucy Nugs.

But instead,

they decide the best venue for this talk would be the Jerry Springer show.

I heard Telly has a nice house down here.

Holy balls.

Yeah.

Let's go on the Jerry now.

Oh, boy.

Serious life

choice.

Serious shit going on.

Yeah.

We'll have Jerry Springer mediate this.

We'll have Jerry handle it.

And these people are not your typical kind of Springer trash is the thing, too, because she's a nice lady and they're just not the typical here.

They're older, too, is the other thing.

It's a lot of younger people.

Nancy's like 48 years old at this point.

And there's not really a scandal here except for an extra person involved, but it's going to confront her on Springer.

Yeah.

And if you don't know, by the way, just to go, because, I mean, we just assume everybody knows Jerry Springer.

There's kids who are 22, 23 years old to listen to the show have no fucking idea what that is.

And he's dead, so it's not happening again.

No, I couldn't believe it went on until like 2010 or some shit.

Crazy how long it went.

Nobody watched that after like 2001, 2002.

But like Jerry Springer, when it first started, it was a real mild show.

Jerry was like Mr.

Cardigan guy, and he was like, well, let's hear more about that.

Like Mr.

Sensitive.

He was a government person.

Before that, he was the mayor of Cincinnati and all that kind of shit.

Yeah.

But he, then they ended up going more sensational because other shows are getting successful with more sensational content.

And

they have some feet, James.

Basically, you're not.

Yeah, you're not going to be Oprah and beat Oprah.

You know what I'm saying?

If you're Jerry Springer.

So they decided to go this raunchy route where it's people on stage and they have problems and they fight.

And this was basically someone would come out and go, I heard you fucking my man.

And some like hillbilly would come out.

I love when the women will come out and immediately kick both their shoes off because they know they're going to be fighting.

So now you have.

I was like, here we go.

Just barefoot hillbillies fighting each other up there.

That's all it was.

Steve was amazing until he talked.

Once he started to show what his personality was, it was fucking boring.

I want to watch him punch out a tiny, tiny little spinning-out, skinny method.

stand there and look like Jacked Cal Ripkin and shut the fuck up.

You know what I mean?

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Grab a couple of crackheads under each arm, throw them off the set.

That's fine.

Soon as you talk, I'm so fucking bored.

So done.

So

by this point, this was when

2000 was when it was, I mean,

it wasn't even the beginning of it.

It had been for five years.

All it was was people fighting.

Yeah.

You go on, you yell at someone, they yell at you, you get up, and then there's a big fight, and everybody cheers.

And Jerry, Jerry, Jerry.

And then Jerry...

It's an accident.

You cut to Jerry and he's like just sitting on the stairs, running his

hands through his hair.

And then he makes some like quip and then everybody laughs and then everybody sits back.

Jerry going, I can't believe I had a man come on my show that told us that he was marrying his goat and then there was a fight.

This is unbelievable.

This is unbelievable.

You can't believe it.

I think a man just marry a quarter horse and we could have a nice ceremony, but no.

Can't have anything nice.

No nice things, huh?

I had no idea that I'd bring a little person on this show and somebody would try to throw him.

Try to throw him after trying to fuck his head.

After the little man just told me that he fucks my wife.

Oh, my God.

And that's what it would be.

It would be crazy shit like that.

It would be two sisters who were both fucking the same guy, and they'd yell at each other.

Well, I fucked him last night.

Well, I fucked him last night, too.

And then he'd come out, and then the twist would be, and we don't even want you.

We're just going to fuck each other.

What?

Either that or he'd be, he'd come out, they'd be fighting, and he'd be like, Listen, I'm only here to tell you I don't want either of you.

And then here's Mandy, and then another chick would come out, and then both the sisters would beat the shit out of her while he tried to pull them off of each other, and they're holding each other's hair.

And

crazy and Mandy's trans, and it's crazy because Mandy's beating the shit out of these women on TV.

So, yeah, this, this is uh, it's just a fucking mess.

It's just an absolute trailer park throwdown chaos.

That's all it is.

And they they talk about on the, there's a documentary on, was it Netflix about this?

Yeah.

And this case is involved in it.

It's from the employees' point of view where they're telling you what happened behind the scenes and why this show ended up going away.

Yeah.

And

they were just encouraging this.

They needed this, basically, this.

No, no regrets.

So this is where you end up taking this beef that they've had, which if you look at them on paper,

this looks like the perfect Jerry Springer trio.

You know what I mean?

All sorts of court stuff.

And I divorced her and I married her, but then I'm back to her.

And they met all of them.

The way they met.

He's from Germany.

It's all a crazy story.

But Nancy doesn't fit into this because Nancy is just a kind of a shy lady.

Yeah.

And she, like, you look at her, she just looks like a mom.

She just looks like some.

Yeah.

Meek and mild.

Nice.

Yeah.

She looks like

there's nothing about her that's like, oh, she's going to go on Jerry Springer and start beating people up.

Yeah.

So it's odd.

Now,

she ends up going on the show because she

basically

thinks it is to confront this other woman.

By the way, she has no idea that Ralph and Eleanor are married.

None.

She doesn't know that they're married.

No clue.

And this is May 7th, 2000, is the Jerry Springer show taping.

So they've been married a couple months.

She has no fucking idea about it.

She thinks that she has been brought here so Ralph can reconcile with her and they can tell this Eleanor to stay out of their fucking line.

Leave this alone.

Yeah.

That is what,

that is what it is.

So, by the way, the day of the episode filming is Nancy's birthday as well.

Oh, really?

This is all on this woman's 48th birthday.

This happens.

Okay.

Now,

a little bit of thing.

This is some background I'll give you from Nancy's son about the relationship.

He said that,

you know, after the domestic violence in the beginning where he thrown her down and she hit her head, he says after that, she left and filed for divorce.

All of a sudden, she was in a big house alone, and I think she just got lonely.

That's why she went on the show to get him back.

Yeah.

Because she's just sitting there by herself, which was the whole point of going on AOL to begin with, was to not be by yourself.

So he said,

this is the son Jeffrey.

My mother believed that Ralph had been deported to Germany.

Oh, she thought he was gone.

So that's how little she was stalking him.

She thought he was

on another continent.

I have to email him because he doesn't have an American phone anymore.

That's right.

He is in Glutenstagen or some shit.

I don't even know.

That's not a real place, but it sounds like.

It probably does feel like stalking when she's emailing you at fucking 4 a.m.

because she thinks it's 2 p.m.

there.

She's just at work in her normal schedule.

He's like, what's happening now?

So

Jeffrey said that then he would tell his new girlfriend that he wanted to be with my mother.

But she was basically lied to because that never happened.

I don't think my mother had any idea what she was walking into.

And that's another thing, too.

The Springer show likes to ambush guests with things that they don't know are going to happen to get the reactions.

They want reactions.

And when they showed in the documentary, too, like.

They're like, well,

when they're like coaching them backstage,

the producers are like, all right, what if she comes out and she says, I don't care.

I'm fucking your boyfriend.

I'm doing it in your own bed.

What are you going to say?

And the lady was, you know, the other person was like, I tell her, like, you know, you're a bitch.

And she's like, no, that's not enough.

Like, that's, we really got to, you know, do something.

And so you, you know, get this energy up.

And they'd be like, you're not fucking my man anymore.

My fucking bed.

I'll take you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that, that, that.

And they'd encourage him, that's more of that, more of that, more of that.

So

yeah.

And, you know, maybe she, if she's not going to listen to you, you might have to go over and grab her by the hair and tell her about it and shit like that.

Now you're getting the gist of the show.

Yeah.

Wow.

So Jeffrey said, my believed that Ralph had been deported to Germany and that the show was going to pay for his travel back to America.

Then they could reconcile and he could stay.

Wow.

So this was just basically a way to get him over here for free.

Oh, boy.

Then he would tell his new girlfriend that he wanted to be with my mother.

That was the plan.

So that was it.

So anyway, he said it was shocking, to say the least, that she agreed to do it.

It was so out of character for her.

He said, growing up, I don't even remember my mother dating ever.

Maybe once or twice, but nothing like a serious relationship because she was a widow.

He said, to see her up there on the show just looking like a deer caught in the headlights, like, what's going on here?

I just wish I could go back and say to her, don't do this.

Okay.

Now, it is Eleanor, Ralph, and Nancy, and they are going to appear in a segment titled Secret Mistresses Confronted.

Yeah.

Which, again,

sounds right.

Sounds, everything sounds on the up and up here.

She didn't realize that she is the

mistress.

Yes, that's what she didn't realize.

So the show

starts out

with

Eleanor up there,

and then Nancy comes out.

They're sitting on kind of the opposite sides of the stage in chairs, and then there's a chair placed in the middle of them.

But everybody's spaced apart.

Like the chair in the middle is five feet from each chair.

If we we can give you the layout there, okay.

So Eleanor gets on the stage, and or I'm sorry, Nancy's there, and Eleanor is mocking her immediately,

calling her old and fat, and all this type of shit, and everything, because she's Eleanor is like two years younger than Ralph, right?

And Nancy's 12 years older, so she's like 14 years younger than Nancy, and she's calling her old, she's calling her fat, she's calling her all this bullshit, right?

So it's very cruel.

And you could see that Nancy, you could see, you know, when you see a person's face go back to the sixth grade,

where they're like, just let this go by.

It's very,

yeah.

It's very disconcerting to see an adult do that, have to do that, like, like go through that weird.

She's realizing it's, it's the face of regret for this decision, but like, but she also doesn't feel like there's any solution of getting out of this decision until I just let it get out, be done with the time.

Don't argue back.

Just sit there kind of quietly.

How long this takes it over with?

Let it over with.

I'll get out of here.

And there's a crowd, you know, heckling and jeering along.

It's like gym class, basically.

It's gym class.

And someone is ridiculing you in front of the whole class and they're laughing.

Like, it's horrifying.

Horrifying.

Not comfortable to watch.

So

it's not the usual.

Usually it's like, well, you need to get away.

You're old and fat.

And then she'd go, you fucking bitch, you got syphilis.

I heard, fuck you, you fucking twat.

And that's the normal thing.

But Nancy's just going, she's not giving them the Jerry Springer episode.

She's just sitting there being a normal person who's been blindsided and ambushed, and she is not okay with this, but she's not comfortable with it and not able to.

She clearly avoids confrontation.

Yes, exactly.

She's not big on confrontation.

I don't think she's a yeller and a screamer.

I don't think she's a fighter.

I think she's kind of a mild-mannered person from Michigan.

I think she's real chill.

So

what she says is that she explains that she and Ralph are trying to restore their marriage, but Eleanor won't leave them alone.

That's what Nancy says.

And Eleanor said, I want you to leave us alone.

I want a normal life.

And then Nancy said, no, you don't.

Neither does Ralph.

He loves the excitement.

There you go.

Which is kind of the truth here.

Yeah.

But then Jerry Springer exciting.

No.

So then they bring out Ralph.

Let's bring out Ralph.

And he steps out with this big, like,

I'm I'm a stud.

Like, he just looked,

he had a little stupid German ponytail.

Yeah.

He was dressed like an idiot.

Look at all this American pussy I'm stealing.

Look at this.

Isn't this amazing?

They're fighting over me.

Oh, my goodness.

Look at me.

Like, this look on his face was just so cocky.

And he goes over and he kisses Eleanor and then walks over and kisses Nancy too.

Kisses her on the cheek, then sits down in his chair.

Okay, now.

In between them.

In between them, which is what they want because they either want

Betwixt the gals, yeah.

So

he, this is when she learns that they're married.

Yeah.

And she is like, you could see that, like, is a

physical blow to her.

You could see, like, yeah, yeah.

At that point, she's really going, uh-oh, what am I doing here?

What's going on?

Yeah, why am I here?

I thought we were talking about mistresses.

You could see the wheels turning where she's like, wait a second.

They're married.

Oh, my God.

I'm the mistress.

I'm the mistress.

What the fuck?

You could totally, totally see it.

So they start accusing her of stalking them.

Eleanor and Ralph are accusing Nancy of that.

And then out of nowhere, when they're like, yeah, he wants me and they're going back and forth.

She then says, well, I don't know.

Why was he sleeping with me the last couple nights then?

Nancy says that.

Now, Eleanor tries to act like that's nothing to her.

Doesn't bother her.

That's fine.

That's fine.

Whatever.

Neil, or Neil,

Ralph, Neil.

I don't know where that came from.

So

it's not even close.

You keep all these fucking people straight.

Tell us that.

I have them written in front of me, and I can't even keep them straight.

That's what I mean.

Who the hell knows?

It's hard.

No.

More sympathetic, I couldn't be.

I don't know where the fuck.

What am I talking about?

I'm a moron.

You should be.

You have a lot of sympathy for me because I have brain damage, apparently, calling people by the wrong names.

I need sympathy.

So, Ralph tells

Nancy that he, I don't wish you any harm or anything like that.

Just leave me alone.

He says, That could have been a text message, you dick.

That's why are we on Jerry fucking?

Well, it's 2000, so it couldn't have been a text message, but an email.

You could have sent an email, yes.

Reply and said, I'm married.

And she wouldn't have written back.

Yeah.

You know, that AOL thing you do all the time?

Get on there.

You've got mail, motherfucker, and it's not Jerry Springer.

Yeah.

So they that Ralph then

says that I was only the only reason

that I had sex with her the last couple days is because I wanted to be nice to her to get her to come on the show.

Yeah.

So it was a like a like a bait dick.

Yeah.

I was fishing with my worm.

Yeah.

He said he wanted to keep her, quote, illusioned and to ensure that she would, you know,

be on the show,

which is just gross.

And the, and the current wife has no problem with this.

He's like, she goes, yeah, see, he doesn't want to be with you.

It's like, have you,

he just said he fucked her last night and you're fine with this.

Okay.

So then Nancy said, This is Ralph.

He plays the games with all his women.

He takes all the money he can get and had.

And

he said, Nancy said that that after he said he had sex with her yesterday um but he said but the matter of the fact is that i married ellie and i do love eleanor

then um

eleanor said ralph loves me and wants to be with me and you red-headed bitch from hell you need to leave us alone jesus christ that's a producer thing they want you to have That kind of thing.

Have a catch for you.

Do some name Colin.

Yeah.

Yeah, do some, but make it creative.

You know, do that, you red-headed bitch from hell.

So, Eleanor, as she said, you need to get a life.

I hope you enjoyed yourself immensely the last two nights because it's the last time you're ever going to see him.

He wants to be with me.

Wow.

That is crazy.

So, Jerry

said that, quote,

he came in there and

asked why.

Why'd you do this?

And that's when he made the illusioned comment.

Then Ralph said, quote, I thought she might be humiliated enough to realize it was over.

Oh.

I figured I'd bring her on national syndicated television to humiliate her.

I figured this part where she cries publicly.

You know, that sort of means that there's millions of people watching.

That ought to make it stop.

So then Eleanor said, you can't humiliate this woman.

Like, she's beyond, you know, has no shame, basically.

So Jerry turns to Nancy and said, he's telling you he doesn't want to be with you.

And Nancy, now this is the point where Nancy's supposed to go, but he's my man and fuck that.

And she's supposed to go over and like mush Eleanor's face.

And then Ralph's going to come up and grab her from behind.

And then both the women are going to fight.

They're going to have each other's hair.

And Steve is going to be throwing Ralph off and trying to.

That's the point of what's supposed to happen here.

She brought shaving cream to mash it in this woman's face.

Yeah.

Someone's going to take their shoe off and hit somebody else with it.

Instead, Nancy says, quote, that's fine, bye, and walks off the stage.

Yeah.

She is way too classy to be on the show.

That's what that says to me.

Yeah, that's the answer that you're supposed to have as a rational human being.

Yeah, that's what an adult would say.

You know what I mean?

That's fine.

I don't want to be anywhere near you then.

Bye.

And leave.

Or this dumb show.

Why am I here?

Why am I here?

And the audience like cheered and shit because they were like, yeah, get out of here, bitch.

Like, because the audience was on their Ralph and Eleanor's side, stupid.

Which you're on Ralph's side?

He just said, I fucking porked this lady to get her here.

This is crazy.

So, at that point, now Eleanor is up out of her seat and, you know, talking shit as she's walking off the stage and all that shit.

And,

wow, Eleanor forgives Ralph.

It's okay that you did that the day before and all this type of shit.

Didn't really care.

Nancy's son said, quote, it's pretty obvious that they were there to ambush her,

which I don't think you can argue with that.

No.

The interesting thing is the title of the show.

If she had known what the title was, she probably would have thought twice about appearing, but she didn't know that.

The producers

wanted them to get physical and make threats, and she wasn't about to do that.

She looks like a nice lady who works in like the office at a high school or something.

You know what I mean?

She's so timid.

She's like Ferris Bueller's principal secretary.

Like, that's what she reminds me me of as far as personality.

She's just kind of a mild-mannered, meek lady.

The principal secretary was much louder than she was louder, but I mean, in like what she looks like, though, is like that, like somebody's whatever.

So, well, she also looks like she has a lot of stress going on in her life.

She has a lot of things that she's trying to balance.

And this was, she thought, something that was going to get her back together with the person that she cares about.

And instead, she's been ambushed and wasted her fucking time.

She's wasted her time.

When she's got bills to pay.

Leave me the fuck alone.

Like I said, if this was a different talk show,

one that wasn't predicated on hillbillies fighting each other publicly, then it might have been different.

You know what I mean?

If she was going on one of those other ones, but Jerry Springer has one fucking goal and one goal only, and that is to get white trash to beat the shit out of each other on television.

That's it.

We need white trash blood and somebody to have a crazy sexual proclivity.

That's what we need on this.

And then you got something here.

So Eleanor later about this whole thing says, actually, we didn't even do a good job.

Meaning on the show.

They wanted yelling and screaming and to lunge at each other, and we didn't do that.

No, because she was gone.

You couldn't.

She didn't participate in that.

If you wanted a show, you could have turned to Ralph and took a swing at him for fucking banging her the night before.

That would have been something.

There you go.

Yeah.

Now, backstage, the producers don't just go, you tell them, Nancy, great job.

That's right.

You shouldn't have taken that stuff.

They go, what are you doing?

Get back out there.

And she said, no.

Yeah.

I'm fucking getting back out there.

And they said, yeah, you are.

You got to get back out there.

Go get in her face.

Go tell them what the fuck you think of.

They're bullshit.

And you go to.

And she said, no.

I don't want to.

They made it clear.

Yeah.

And I'm not going to go out there and embarrass myself.

Then they pull the

talk show card here, which is.

This is a whole card.

Yes.

This is crazy.

This is like holding someone's passport in a foreign country or something.

It's nuts.

It's exactly what it is.

They tell her, well, if you want to get your flight home,

you'll go back out there.

Otherwise, we're not giving you your ticket home.

What the fuck?

You're stuck here.

That's kidnapping.

That's

insane.

Like blackmail or extortion.

I don't know what the fuck it is, but it's not good.

No.

So

that's, and it's fucked fucked up.

They're like allowed to do that.

I can't believe they're allowed to.

I can't believe that you can just withhold somebody's return ticket

until they complete whatever it is that you want.

Meanwhile,

does she have a time limit that she has to be on?

Because she went on the fucking show.

She went on the show.

She's just not, and they do, they threaten her.

And apparently they do this with everybody.

They threaten them with you're not getting your ticket home.

Like, you want to go home?

Then you're fucked.

How are you going to be here?

And a lot of these contestants, you can tell, contestants.

It's not a contest, but not a game show.

But a lot of the people people that are on this show, participants is the word I'm looking for.

A lot of the participants, when you watch it, they don't have any money.

No.

They're very, very poor people, a lot of these people, and they literally don't have the money to get a bus ticket to Arkansas from where the fuck they are.

From Chicago, which is, you know, you hold a lot of control over someone when they can't even buy their own bus ticket.

And you brought this woman from Sarasota, Florida to fucking Chicago.

So they keep telling her that, and she says, I don't give a shit what you do.

I'm not fucking going back out there.

So they go, okay, you don't get a return ticket home.

Right.

And she leaves.

Yeah.

Now,

included in this is not only return tickets and all this shit, is also you're supposed to get, they get limo rides to their hotels, to the airport, to the, you know, they get on their flights and do all that kind of shit.

They just kick her out in the street.

Oh?

Nancy ends ends up wandering the streets of Chicago with her fucking roly suitcase.

No place to be wandering around with a suitcase.

No hotel.

No.

No ride.

No.

And no flight home.

She's just stuck in Chicago, and she has no money either.

Oh, my God.

She does not have enough money to get home or to get a hotel room or do anything.

So she basically wanders around the city, rolling her fucking suitcase, crying about what just happened until some actual one decent human being on the face of the earth said, oh my God, what's wrong?

And she said, I went on the Jerry Springer show.

And this guy understood her plight and bought her a bus ticket to Sarasota.

Wow.

So this is literally a good Samaritan.

Just some nice person in the street bought her a Greyhound ticket to Sarasota, right?

She'd still fucking be there.

Recognize this person is not just,

she's just down on her luck and needs.

She's not a crackhead.

She's a nice middle-aged lady with her roly bag going, I won't let me back on.

And they've seen Springer.

The mayor of Cincinnati just ruined her day.

Yeah, yeah.

So

Ralph and Eleanor, though, get the limo to the airport from the show.

And in the limo with other guests from the show, because they basically just shipped the whole cabal off to the airport right after the show, Eleanor wished aloud.

in front of everybody that Nancy was dead.

I wish she'd die.

Okay.

And they were all like, oh, shit.

And then later on, a waitress at a pizza place in Sarasota said that she heard Ralph talk about the show and say of his ex-wife, quote, I'll choke the life out of her.

Oh, my.

So that's not good.

Those are bad statements.

Now,

this is from the son, Jeffrey, saying, backstage, my mom was informed that if she didn't return at the end of the show, they would not provide her return ticket to Florida, and she wasn't having that.

He said, somehow she found her way to the bus station after walking the streets alone by herself.

She didn't have any money and anywhere to go.

It was just her crying.

And a good Samaritan saw her visibly upset and bought her a bus ticket, like we said.

Now, multiple producers confirm that's what the show does.

This is not a rumor or anything else.

They'll tell you straight up.

We tell them if you don't get out there and perform, we're not sending you home.

I didn't think they'd actually do it.

I always thought that was just a threat to get people to do it.

But at the end of the day, they go, fine, here's your fucking ticket.

Get out of here.

But they don't give you your ticket.

So, this is Toby Yoshimura.

That's the guy from the documentary, the producer there, one of the guys.

He said, you as a producer had one more opportunity to keep them.

They should feel beholden to you that they are letting you down and that you've done all this for them.

And like, yeah, you should be like, they should be like, they owe you something, so they got to go out there and perform.

Yeah.

And like one of them talked about how one guy told him, gee, buddy, you bought me the best rack of ribs I've ever had in my life last night, so I'm going to go out there and put on quite a show for for you.

I'm going to really kick some ass today.

I've got a belly full of pork right now.

I'm feeling good.

I'm a burp honey barbecue all over that motherfucker.

Oh, man, it's smoky.

My burps is smoky right now.

So

they also noted that no one from the show tried to contact Nancy afterwards to check in on her or see where she went or see if she's alive or got home or anything like that.

And yeah,

another former producer, Richard Dominick, said, we weren't problem solvers.

We weren't going to give you the chance to tell your story and get it all out, but we are also, but

we are not going to help you.

Or we will give you the chance to tell your story and get it all out, but we're not going to help you.

That's what they said.

Why is it a policy to just treat people like shit, though?

You don't have to treat people like shit.

Yeah, you do.

You can work with them probably, too.

Otherwise, you get taken advantage of, James, if you show remorse and sadness and softness.

They're going to be coming in from everywhere.

I don't understand it.

I mean,

I don't know.

We're not going to help you.

Fuck off.

Yeah.

So, the show description here, like if you looked at the website or a TV guide or something back then, said, Eleanor says her ex-wife's husband, Nan, won't take no for an answer.

Nan has stalked them so severely that they had to go into hiding.

Today, Nan will learn that her ex-husband is actually married to Eleanor.

Okay.

So they just spun it as a big ambush on Eleanor or on Nancy, which is fucked up.

So June 10th, 2000, about a month later,

Eleanor now gets in on all these injunctions going back and forth.

Eleanor files

a petition for an injunction against Ralph now.

What is going on?

Come on.

A month later, now, Ralph and Eleanor are now broken up.

All of a sudden, they're not doing great.

No, and she's filing fucking

restraining orders against him.

She said, quote,

she said also that

Nancy was still stalking them.

Said that it just got to the point where anywhere we went, she would find a way to show up.

It just got worse as time went on and we couldn't get any peace.

So June 15th, 2000, dude, this is just

put a neck brace on so you don't get whiplash.

So they're together.

Okay, May is the show.

Fuck Nancy.

Eleanor and Ralph are solid.

June 10th, 2000, Eleanor says, fuck Ralph.

He's a piece of shit.

June 15th, 2000, five days later, Nancy and Ralph buy a house together.

I couldn't, this is insane.

This is.

He took this woman on a show two months ago.

A month ago.

A month ago.

A month ago.

And told her he wanted nothing to do with her.

Now we need to do it.

He made fun of her, called her a piece of shit.

Yeah.

We don't need a picket fence together.

We need to own half a picket fence.

This is crazy.

I'll show a nice little house, too.

I'll show you here.

It's on an option to lease-to-buy basis here.

At the time, the house was worth $103,000, by the way.

The Zestimate on this house right now is $450,800.

It's a two-bedroom, two-bath, $1,300 square foot house.

Half a million dollars.

Yeah.

Look at that.

What the fuck?

Half a million dollars just about for that.

Boring.

I don't think so.

It's fine.

It's fine.

It's a nice little house, but I mean, hey, a half million dollars worth of house.

People moved to Florida to not pay a half million dollars for a little house.

So there's the house.

They move in 2827 Grand Cayman Street in Sarasota.

That address should sound familiar to everybody from the beginning of the show.

Yeah.

So this is from Nancy's son.

He says, after the taping of the show, mom was determined to go on with her life without Ralph.

She didn't want anything more from him.

I don't know what happened in the two or three months after they were on the stage, but somehow they got back together at that point.

I don't get it either.

She put money down on a home, and then he went back to his old ways.

He threatened her again, and like she did on the show, she wasn't going to take it anymore.

So, but that was, this is not for a few days anyway.

So, June 15th, they buy the house.

June 20th, five days after that, Ralph files for divorce from Eleanor.

Okay, so that's done.

Okay, well, we'll see.

But by early July, Ralph started messaging Eleanor again,

asking her to take him back.

Reconcile, babe.

He's still living with

Nancy.

This is insane.

These women should get together, have lunch, and go, let's both beat the shit out of him.

He's the problem.

Yeah.

You flatten the left side, I'll flatten the right side.

Yeah, what are we doing here?

Why are we fighting with each other?

So July 10th, 2000, this is a month after Eleanor filed against him and less than a month after he moved into a house with Nancy,

Ralph moves into,

okay, this is crazy.

He left the house, okay?

Like I said, he's messaging with Eleanor, leaves the house.

Then on July 10th, he moves back into the house with Eleanor.

What?

He brings his wife

to Nancy's house and moves in.

So now it's the three of them living there.

Why would Nancy allow allow this?

What the fuck kind of demented threes company is going on here?

This is crazy.

Don Knotts would have nothing to do with this.

Holy shit.

Unbelievable.

So I don't even know what to say about that.

Now this day, July 10th, they came, 8.14 a.m.

So they haven't been there that fucking long.

So

the Sarasota Sheriff's Office reports Nancy was made to leave by a deputy answering a call for a disturbance at the home with Eleanor.

Eleanor called the cops on Nancy, saying that they were fighting and you need to get Nancy out of the house.

So the cops come and remove Nancy from the home.

From her own home.

From her own home.

That they just moved back into.

This is insane.

I don't even know what's going on here.

So the police were having to show up at the home, apparently, all the time, to break up fights between the two of them, or the three of them, mainly between the two women, both claiming Ralph is their husband.

Wow.

I mean,

dude, this is exhausting.

12:05 p.m.

that day.

So 8:14 is removed, Nancy.

12:05, Ralph again calls the sheriff's office to report his cell phone was missing from his home, and he suspected that Nancy took it when she left earlier that morning.

Yeah, because she needs to do that.

Jesus.

So July 11th, the next morning, Nancy tries to get an injunction to be able to go back to her house and get them out of the house.

Okay.

That's what she's going for.

Nancy testified during an injunction hearing that, quote, I was so scared of them that I left immediately.

She said that she went to live with her aunt and uncle in Manatee County, and Nancy was denied an injunction against Eleanor.

Okay.

Okay, so

can we kick her out of my fucking house, though?

No.

No, that's what she was trying to do.

Nope.

Because Ralph is on half the lease, too.

She can stay.

Yep.

So that's how it goes.

Now,

someone else does get an injunction that day, though.

Who's that?

Not Nancy.

No, Marcus Panitz.

Marcus.

Yeah.

Marcus

is Ralph's German nephew who also lives here.

Oh, my God.

He's moved into the house now as well.

Who'd you get an injunction against?

Nancy.

Oh, dear lord.

He gets an injunction against Nancy, Nancy claiming she threatened him.

So now there's an actual injunction against Nancy to not go to her house because her ex-husband's nephew said that she threatened him.

And can't threaten him?

He lives in her house.

And he lives in her house with Ralph and Ralph's not quite ex-wife.

Yeah.

What do you call it?

I don't even know.

Come on.

This is a fucking mess.

Yeah.

This is a mess.

This is one of those where you need somebody to come in and go, nobody talk to each other ever again.

None of you.

I swear to God, if I see two of you in the same room, I'm killing both of you.

I swear to Christ, I'm going to put a bullet in all your fucking heads.

If you're not afraid of that, Nancy, just a hopeless romantic, is that what it is?

She just wants,

she's in love with Ralph.

She loved Ralph.

And Nancy, like I said, she's not a woman who dated a lot.

This is, she was married and they never really had another relationship.

So it's like she's a widow.

In her mind, you marry a guy, then that's your husband, and you stay with them and you're a couple or whatever.

And then, uh, yeah.

So, Ralph doesn't see it that way.

Much more, you never think of the Germans as being real loose and willy-nilly, but apparently, this guy is just a they are into sex, though.

Maybe the Eleanor does poop stuff for him.

I'm not sure.

She might be getting some scat play.

Yeah, we don't know.

That's what I mean.

We don't know.

We can't know.

July 13th, 2000.

Last one, the injunction day was July 11th.

July 13th, 2000, 11.15 a.m.

There is a visit from the sheriff's office.

Ralph says he heard a noise outside at about 2.30 p.m.

or 2.30 a.m.

that morning.

And he went out to investigate and found the garage door was open.

He said he knew that he closed it before going to bed, but didn't lock it.

He told the deputy he believed that Nancy was responsible.

You know what was stolen?

What?

Wallpaper paste and a gray metal box.

Yeah, that's what your ex wants.

You really want your wallpaper paste.

Not that you're in a place that has twice the national average of property crime and you left your garage door open and someone stole your wallpaper paste because they could sell that at a construction site or something for a few bucks.

Not that at all.

I'm sure it's Nancy said, I'll take this box and wallpaper paste.

That'll show them.

Nancy, yeah, she

big, big caper there.

She's, yeah, yeah.

She's just waiting for your garage door to be left open so she can

she's been looking, waiting for it to be, yeah.

And then she got him in the car.

Think about it.

She put that wallpaper paste right on the seat next to her in the front seat, started up her car.

As soon as it went in reverse, she went, that's right.

Now I got him.

The perfect crime.

I'll never know.

Now I got him.

So about a week and a half, almost two weeks goes by.

Okay.

She is going to end up, as we'll talk about

here,

trying to get another injunction here.

She gets an injunction against Eleanor, and she has to stay, Eleanor has to stay 500 feet away from her, meaning that Eleanor then has to leave this house.

Okay.

So that's how that goes.

And then she also gets an order of protection against Ralph for domestic violence.

She told the judge he is frequently violent.

That morning, morning, the one they're discussing in this whatever morning they were together, he had chased me with a knife,

with a knife, and made threats about taking my life, ending my life the way he was going to torture me.

Whoa.

So he's ordered to stay 500 feet away, also, and she is given exclusive possession and living rights to the Grand Cayman Street property.

Holy goddamn shit, this is wild, man.

So

the problem is

the sheriff goes to serve Eleanor with her injunction at 10.45 a.m.

at the house.

Yeah.

But Eleanor presented an injunction issued in Manatee County against Nancy.

Oh, okay.

What is going on?

So they said, well, what do we do?

We have dueling injunctions.

So the sheriff had to leave.

The court order prohibited Nancy from coming within 500 feet of the residence.

No one's allowed to be within 500 feet of this residence at this point.

These are enjoying.

You ever seen

a crime movie where people realize we've been double-crossing each other and then all three people take guns out at the same time and they point them at each other?

I pointed him, then I pointed him, and he points at him.

That's what this is.

A ridiculous comedic, not comedic, because it's tragic, but fuck, this is ridiculous, man.

They need to sell this home, and she and Ralph

can go separate ways forever.

So they're definitely.

It's a lease.

They can get out.

It's a lease.

We're leaving.

Don't you want us to leave since the cops are here every day?

You probably don't want that in your house.

So the deputy couldn't determine who had legal rights to the house.

So he told Nancy she had to meet with another deputy in the civil department of the sheriff's office to resolve the discrepancies in the two injunctions.

She's back to square one.

She's fucked.

So July 24th, 2000.

Okay.

Remember we started on that day.

Nancy's in court that morning

working this out.

This is Nancy's attorney.

Quote, There had been several incidents with Ralph before, and this time he'd actually been kicked out of her house.

Nancy said to me that her and Ralph had been on the Jerry Springer show and that it was going to air in two weeks.

They're talking about two weeks earlier because this is the day where the Jerry Springer show airs, July 24th.

He said that didn't register with me.

I really felt from her that it was between her and Ralph.

She was done with him and she wanted to get back into her house.

So

there's a tape recording

in which Nancy gets a court order against him.

They have like the court tape here and tells the judge that

Ralph had beat her several times during their marriage.

And she said, till recently, she had been trying to reconcile with him.

She even said she wanted to remarry him before she learned on the Springer episode that he was already remarried.

That's what she's telling the judge.

Since then, she said she just wanted to get on with her life.

Meanwhile, she bought a house with the guy.

You can't move on with your life.

No, it's fucking sad because she's just, I think she's just a nice lady who's

looking for someone to be grow old.

She's around.

Yeah, looking for someone to have a good time with and grow old with.

It doesn't seem that that's crazy.

So

Nancy even said

that she shared her home with Ralph and his new wife, not knowing that they were married shortly after she divorced him.

Meaning, before they went on the show, they lived together for a couple weeks because she thought that Eleanor was just some friend of his that needed a place to stay for a minute, not his mistress or his wife, actually, at the time.

So, oh my God.

Then she said, she goes on to say that on July 10th, that Ralph chased her with a knife and made threats.

Remember, July 10th was one of those court days that we talked about.

She said he spent a couple of hours, Sunday, a couple of hours, telling me how he would kill me and my whole family.

He was trying to think of a way to do it, to get away with it.

By the way, I'm going to kill your whole family.

I'm just, once I figure it out, it's gone.

Scratching his head with the knife blade, going, I just can't

figure it out.

I can't configure it.

I just don't know.

So Ralph, because Ralph is in court too, Ralph tells the judge that Nancy's the aggressor and had been stalking him.

He said he went on the Springer show because he thought if she was confronted before a national audience, maybe she'd leave him alone finally.

The judge Robert Bennett signed a permanent injunction against Ralph after the hearing, and a sheriff's deputy served the order that evening.

Ralph was so pissed off that he was overheard by a bailiff saying that his ex-wife would never get the house.

Oh.

Even though the judge just issued a permanent injunction against him going to that house.

She'll never get it.

Yeah.

She's never going to get it.

Well, Nancy's lawyer said when Ralph walked out of that courtroom, he wasn't cursing or stomping.

He seemed resigned to the ruling.

There wasn't really an issue.

But then he went to a bar and they were playing the episode.

Ralph watched the entire show getting drunk and he was getting more agitated.

So, and then at one point during this, he turns to just a person who's at the bar

and says, I'm going to kill her.

And then keeps drinking.

Okay.

come down.

So let's talk about the later that afternoon.

This is after court.

This is the afternoon the Jerry Springer show airs.

And if you remember, that's an afternoon show.

It's always on like when you get home from school, Jerry Springer's on back in the day.

Was it two or was it one?

Was it two?

I don't know about Arizona.

I lived in New York, so I didn't know about the Arizona, but it was like three o'clock in New York or whatever.

And it was on like four different channels.

It was on at fucking.

That's the other part.

You could watch two episodes in a day because it was like syndicated and TBS.

And it was crazy.

They'd have an early show, then there'd be another one on it like 11 o'clock at night or midnight.

It'd be a different episode.

And then

sometimes they'd show like four of them in a row.

It'd be like, great.

I'm just watching this all night.

So that's what happened.

So later on that afternoon, like we said, Ralph watches the Jerry Springer episode at a bar drinking Ice House beer.

Oh, boy.

He really wants to shit later, boy.

That is a choice.

You'd think a German would pick a better beer than Ice House.

You know what I'm saying?

Were they out of Rolling Rock, man?

Were they at a Red Dog?

What happened?

Trying to think of 2,000-era beers.

Oh, boy.

That is fucking awful.

So

him and his nephew watched the episode.

So him and Marcus, remember Marcus here, they sat and drank heavily, according to witnesses and Marcus and everybody else.

So

they went to, he was with, by the way, Marcus was with Ralph and Eleanor when they went to court that day.

Oh.

He came with them because remember, he's like living there too.

So after the judge granted possession of the house to Nancy, Marcus said his uncle was upset and angry and excited, but in a heavy German accent.

So even more angry, upset, and excited.

Eleanor and Marcus left Ralph at the bar while they went to the residence to gather their belongings because they're not supposed to be there, so they have to go get their shit out of the house, essentially.

So they come back to the bar, Marcus and Eleanor, to watch the the Jerry Springer show with a now quite intoxicated Ralph, apparently, from what everybody says.

They watch it, and apparently Marcus said that Ralph told him, quote, I'm going back to the house.

It's my house, not Nancy's house.

Okay.

Okay.

Now, by the way, there's a couple more details, one of which is absolutely hilarious that we'll talk about in a little while because it is one of the details of him at the bar for hours.

It's so fucking funny.

So I can't wait to tell you, especially.

Now, Marcus said that his uncle was drinking heavily.

After the show ended, Ralph, quote, persuaded Marcus and Eleanor to drive him to the house, even though it's very illegal for him to be within 500 feet of it.

So Marcus says, quote, we walked into the master bedroom.

My uncle threw himself on the bed saying, it's my house.

But Marcus said, I saw police through the window.

My uncle, yeah, whoops.

My uncle jumped off the bed, ran to the dining room, and climbed out of the window.

He escaped through a fucking window.

So he's aware that

even though it's his house, he's not leaving through doors.

No, he's not opening the door going, telling the cops, this is my house.

Go away.

That's, yeah, he knows what's up.

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Yeah.

So the sheriffs come and Eleanor and Marcus are left in the house and they're there to pack their shit and then leave the property.

Now,

there, I guess, had been a, they had made a plan before, as he's jumping out the window, he said, meet me at the 7-Eleven.

There's a 7-Eleven near here, a store.

Okay.

So Marcus and Eleanor.

get all their shit and go to the 7-Eleven where they thought they could find Ralph, where he's supposed to be.

But he's not there.

Rendezvous Rendezvous at the Tornado Grillers.

That's it.

Got to have it.

So that's what's going on here.

The safe house is the 7-Eleven.

Hook up at the big gulp stand.

Let's do it.

And they said that

they couldn't find him.

Marcus said he and Eleanor separated to search for Ralph, but couldn't find him.

So Marcus said that he then returned after looking for his uncle, returned to the 7-Eleven again so that he could call his girlfriend because he doesn't have a cell phone, I don't think.

And that's when Eleanor ran up to him at the 7-Eleven in a panic and saying

she's, you know, going crazy, going crazy.

He said that

they were doing this.

Eleanor ran up and said, quote, hurry up.

Ralph is going into the house and he's going, and he's trying to kill Nancy.

Nancy's crying for help.

Oh, so she's there and he's there.

And they're in the house and Eleanor is coming to get Marcus to get help for this.

So, Eleanor, one thing I'll give her, at least she didn't jump in and try to, like, you know, go, yeah, get her.

Yeah, yeah, she at least is encouraged, yeah, encourage it.

She's trying to do that.

Um, so then uh, he said, Eleanor must have seen something that made her very frightened, he said, because she said heard that she had a terrified look on her face, like, oh my god, she came up.

This was no games.

So, Marcus, they run back to the house.

Marcus is crying, yelling for help as he walks up the street here

for neighbors, basically, looking for neighbors.

They find a neighbor named Ron Shin,

and this neighbor says, Marcus told me his uncle Ralph was in the house, that he was drunk, and that he was killing his ex-wife and himself.

Okay.

So the guy said, Marcus was asking me for help.

So this neighbor who lives right across the street said that Marcus, you know,

that Marcus said that his uncle had been hiding in the trees earlier when police arrived to escort Marcus and Eleanor off the property,

which he climbed out the window and hid in the trees.

That's what he did.

So this neighbor also said that he tried to enter the home through the front door.

How about call the cops?

What are you?

There's people in there murdering each other.

Let me head right in there then.

No, that's when I turn around and walk the opposite way and call 911.

That's not my fucking job to deal with this.

So Shin

said that he tried to enter the home through the front door, but it was barricaded from the inside, as we remember.

So he called 911.

Finally, there you go.

And another neighbor said that they heard screws.

So he called 911 based on that.

That's the one call saying a man and a woman.

Then another neighbor.

said that he heard screams coming from the residence less than an hour before that as well.

He said, I heard a screaming male voice that sounded angry, loud, and I couldn't understand what was said.

The screaming stopped

as suddenly as it started.

I saw Eleanor Panett standing on the street screaming in the direction of the house.

I heard her yell, Ron, don't do this.

And she looked like she had seen a ghost.

And later on, he'll say that he misheard it.

It's Ralph that she said, but he just thought it was, he didn't remember when he was telling the cops.

I think she said, Ron, don't do this.

But when they said, was it Ralph?

He was like, yeah, yeah, Ralph, my bad, my bad.

That's the name.

Yeah, I couldn't remember the name.

So that's what's going on here.

Now, according to Eleanor,

while this is going on, Marcus with the neighbors, guy trying to bust in, 911's being called from two different places.

Eleanor decided to circle the block a few times because she didn't want to be seen at the house when police arrived.

Sure.

So that's when she spotted Ralph running down the street.

Oh, yeah.

Just like fucking raising Arizona or some shit.

He's got a panty on his head and somebody's a

panty on your head.

Yeah.

Huggies, huggies.

Huggies.

That's right.

I was huggies.

Get some huggies.

So she told him to get in the car, and he, I assume, threw the huggies in and then dove in headfirst.

Doberman's chasing him.

Doberman's chasing him, fucking people shooting at him, some toothless hillbilly clerk shooting at him.

So he gets in the car.

They take off.

Yeah.

Gone from the scene.

Police arrive 7.35.

They break down the door.

And that's when they find Nancy in the house and unrecognizably beaten.

Unrecognized.

She's been strangled and beaten to death as well.

And by the way,

Ralph is a black belt in karate also.

Oh.

Really?

So he knows, yes, he knows how to fight, throw punches and kicks.

I didn't know about German karate love, but apparently.

I didn't know, yeah.

Big Van Damme fan

big Van Dam fan saw blood sport, really got into it.

I don't know.

I'm not sure.

Van Damme is Belgian, I understand, but

close fucking enough.

A beer country that they share a border with.

Eat dicks.

So

she's in there.

She's in horrible condition.

It's an extremely bloody scene.

Blood everywhere.

I mean, everywhere.

They said that, Jesus Christ, the fucking Nancy's.

wow, her bones of her face were separated from the bones of her skull.

Oh, my.

We've done this show a long time.

I've never heard of anybody getting beaten that bad.

Just with fists?

Fists and feet.

Oh, my God.

This is mainly from being stomped.

Oh, boy.

This is horrific, dude.

Imagine a person is on the ground and you stomping their fucking head until

all their bones aren't connected anymore.

Imagine that.

How horrifying that is.

You separated the facial bones from the rest of the head.

Basically, just like a melon smashing against a tile floor.

It's horrifying, man.

There were shoe print impressions left in the blood on the kitchen floor and shoe prints on her face.

That's how hard she is being kicked.

But in the print, a Skecher's logo could be made out.

He wears shape-ups?

He's wearing some Skechers.

Oh, so.

He really cares about that lower back.

He does.

He's like, man,

he's got soreness.

You don't understand.

It's hard to be a German philandering karate expert.

Your back gets sore.

It's very dull.

I'm surprised he's getting so much pussy wearing Skechers.

He's wearing, dude, when you see this guy, you're like, why is everyone clamoring over this fucking dildo?

He's wearing Skechers, ladies.

And he speaks with a a hilariously funny German accent.

Like, this is ridiculous.

Well, he wears

skechers.

That's the ultimate funny accent, German.

When I was like five, six years old, my mother's friends, they all, my mother's friends knew this guy from Germany came over.

He was like a young guy.

He was like in his early 20s.

I guess my mom was Christ.

She was probably 25 at the time.

I don't know.

Anyway, we hung out with this guy, her and her friends and this guy.

We went to like the Bronx Zoo and shit.

And the whole day was just him marveling at things and all of us cracking up laughing at him because he just talks so funny.

It was so fucking funny.

I think World War II may have been avoided had Hitler been wearing those stupid fucking shoes.

No one would have taken them seriously.

Yeah, you couldn't have

skechers.

The fucking Germans, yeah, they're different.

So anyway,

so now they got to find who was wearing the skecher.

Yeah.

Basically.

Now, Nancy's son says, this is Jeffrey again.

They told me someone had attacked my mom, choked her, pushed her down on the floor, and stomped on her head.

That was the cause of death.

They said it was one of the worst scenes they'd ever encountered.

They had no idea what was going on, the cops, but they definitely needed to speak to Ralph probably since he's the missing entity here.

He's the prime suspect since they were just at court that morning.

Yeah.

And they didn't know also that

Eleanor's not around.

They don't know if she's an

accomplice.

They don't know if she's a hostage.

They have no idea what's going on here.

So they issue a bolo alert for them, and they are reportedly seen fleeing the area,

heading towards South Carolina, and then west.

They're headed west toward the Midwest is all they could figure out.

Okay.

Head on up to South Carolina and then head west.

What is that, the 40?

What is that?

Up there, and I don't think they were taking the 40.

They were just taking other shit heading west.

So the

sheriff's department said that they're not suspects, but they're wanted for questioning.

Really?

Yeah.

So they have a nationwide manhunt for people who aren't suspects.

They're searching for this couple here.

A first-degree murder warrant is issued for Ralph.

Oh.

And detectives want to detain Eleanor as a witness, as a material witness.

So they think that they're trying to flee to Canada.

Yeah.

They They believe, they think that

they were seen in Maine

is why.

They were spotted in Maine, and they're believed to be trying to reach Canada.

They believe that he is trying to get to the German embassy in Canada.

Okay.

And that she is a Native American and may be trying to reach a reservation near Campbellton, New Brunswick, in Canada to get protection there.

She's going to be a little bit different.

Stay up in New Brunswick?

Oh, she's about to be in for a fucking life-changing experience up there.

It's a little different.

A little different.

Sarasota to New Brunswick.

All right.

But ollie, ollie, oxen-free.

Home base.

Can't get me, though, for both of them.

That's what they're trying to do.

They're both trying to home base each other there.

So the Jerry Springer show makes a comment saying, quote, this is a terrible tragedy.

That's all.

And that the show is cooperating with the police investigation in any way they can.

She slipped?

What are we talking about?

Terrible tragedy.

We're sorry.

Tragedy.

Like Lori Vallo calls murdering and dismembering her daughter as a tragedy.

You know, tragedy.

Family tragedy.

Tragedy.

Family tragedy.

Don't turn it into a crime.

Jesus, as she said.

Ridiculous.

So Jerry Springer, who has a home in Sarasota that he spends much time at,

so the Sarasota News Now contacted him and he says, I don't remember them.

I don't know what you're talking about.

You don't remember the one group of people that didn't throw fists on your show?

The one

bit, nice lady.

lady.

Didn't look like she was from a trailer in the hills who just

that's fine by and left.

Don't remember her, huh?

All right.

He said, quote, obviously, this is a terrible situation, and I know that our company is cooperating fully with the police, and I hope they find the person who killed her.

Yeah.

He said, he they said to me, but you can't remember who they were.

And he said, quote, if the guy was 300 pounds, maybe I'd remember him or if he liked to be thrown on or something, a thrown up on or something, but no.

That's

the real weird people he remembers, not the one person who doesn't fight.

Okay, Jared.

Come on, Jare.

That's bullshit.

But he said the name meant nothing to him.

Okay.

Don't know what you're talking about.

Now, this is adding to a larger problem with talk shows that their talk shows were having at the time, and that was people were starting to turn on them and go, hey, you're not good for, you know, society, basically.

This is bad stuff.

And this is the second talk show murder that's happened in five years.

Oh, between that guy that, yeah, that was a bad one, Jenny Jones.

1995 Jenny Jones show

guest was killed after appearing in an episode about secret crushes.

And I've seen a documentary on this, too.

It's a very weird story.

Yeah.

Yeah, Jonathan Schmitz was convicted of the 1995 shooting death of Scott Amador after they appeared on the Jenny Jones show about secret crushes.

The guy came on thinking, if you don't know, if you've never heard it, one of the guys, the murderer, came on thinking that a woman had a secret crush on him.

She was there to meet a crush, and it turned out to be his guy friend.

Yeah.

And so, not too long after, very evidently gay.

Oh, he was, yeah.

There was no way that you

could be around that guy and think that, you know, let's go out for chicks tonight.

Let's go find someone.

The second you sit down next to that guy, he's not going to be like, you're not going to believe who has a crush on you.

Sarah, you know what I mean?

Some

girl that we know.

That's not going to happen.

He sat down.

You should be like, oh, God.

So, but I mean, rather than just being flattered and saying you're not interested,

it escalated higher than that.

This is so hard.

I don't understand why I can't.

Have you ever had a woman like you that you weren't interested in?

You just go, I'm not really interested.

It's just, yeah, just not interested.

No thanks.

You don't have to kill them.

I think you're marvelous.

Yeah, I'm not going to fuck you.

That's not a big deal.

Now, that episode was never broadcast because they were killed before it aired.

The murder was before it aired.

Amador's family was awarded $25 million by a Michigan jury that found the show and its producer, Warner Brothers, negligent in his death.

Wow.

Does Michigan has a tie to this too?

God damn it.

Yes.

So, I mean, it's weird.

Oh, it's that lawyer will be involved in this too.

The lawyer who got the $25 million will be involved in this.

He's going to be Ralph's defense attorney.

Okay.

It's interesting.

So

anyway,

obviously the police unravel the whole mess.

They had to go into the court.

dockets and just go through everything and

put together a trail of fucking restraining orders and people breaking up, getting back together and marriages and divorces and deeds.

And it's just a lot, man.

Lease agreements with

cohabitants.

This is not.

It's so weird.

A spokesman for the sheriff's office did say that Eleanor had a court order saying that she was allowed to be there

to get her shit.

So that's one thing they say.

Now, Ralph and Eleanor eventually surrender to authorities.

They flew into Florida.

They flew from Maine to Florida.

They did go to Maine.

Yep, they went to Maine.

That's where they were seen.

They were held without bail at first.

Now, Eleanor claims that she had no idea what happened to Nancy.

She said she thought they were fleeing from immigration officials, not the cops.

She said Ralph said that immigration came for him.

So that's why they were fleeing, was to get away from that.

So she's like, I didn't know even

that Nancy was dead.

According to Eleanor, Ralph convinced her that Nancy had called immigration on him.

That's why he took off.

So Eleanor, was it because you thought you ran up to Marcus saying that he was trying to kill her?

Maybe that's

what she would have done that?

Yeah.

So Eleanor believed Ralph was on the run from that threat, not a murder investigation.

And she said she didn't know anything about Nancy's death until days later when her father called her to tell her Nancy was dead.

And that's when it began to, that's when the whole thing unfolded.

So a man, a man punched and stomped a woman to death and then escaped on foot.

You picked him up on the street.

He didn't have a drop of blood on him.

No, no, no.

No, obviously not.

No, actually, it's really funny because when they did turn themselves in,

little things are there.

Ralph is wearing the same pair of blue skechers that he wore to murder Nancy.

The shoes matched the prints perfectly that were found in Nancy's blood and on her face.

There has to be blood all over those.

Did you see that?

That's what I mean.

I'm sure he went out and hosed them off or whatever, but they're not getting blood out of them.

No, not enough out of their shoelaces and shit.

No way.

So Ralph is going to plead innocent, not guilty.

Oh, yeah.

Eleanor is not charged at all, and as a matter of fact, is given immunity to all charges in order to answer the detectives' questions.

They give her immunity to everything,

which seems extremely generous.

Wow.

Like next level generous.

Sure.

You help a guy escape after that.

Sure seems like you knew about it and we're in on it.

It's just

from my point of view.

Turn the tables and he's going too.

You know what I mean?

That's what I'm saying.

I don't know anything in his German accent.

Yeah.

Sure, you don't.

Sure.

He's just covered in blood, man.

Yeah, I don't think so.

Yeah, let's go fucking dipshit.

Moving along.

I don't, wow.

There's just no way he wasn't covered in blood.

There's just no way.

No fucking way.

He's got, at least his legs, his feet, his pant legs, all that kind of shit's got to be covered in blood.

So Jack McGill, who's Eleanor's lawyer, said that he wouldn't

comment on the case itself, but when they asked about, you know, threats that she's made in limousines and things like that, he said, you get new wives and ex-wives.

You probably get some statements like that that are not seriously made.

You know, just random threats to kill in public.

People do that, you know.

So the Jerry Springer show, they hear that they're all getting subpoenaed.

The whole staff is getting subpoenaed here.

They don't want to be subpoenaed.

So if this was from the documentary, too, one of the producers said the rumors were we were going to be subpoenaed.

That's when Richard called me into a meeting and said, I like that Jamaica show idea at a swinger's resort.

Everyone's going.

He said, I don't know.

Nobody gets a plane ticket to Heden at something.

Yeah.

He said, I don't want Richard to get at me, but if you are going to subpoena someone, all of them were there.

That's a great coincidence.

We never got subpoenaed.

So when the subpoenas were coming, coming, they all went down and spent like a week in Jamaica, the whole fucking crew, and nobody got subpoenaed.

So that's interesting.

Now, Dominic denied that accusation in a separate thing here.

Netflix noted at the end of the dock that the show denied they ever attempted to evade subpoenas, which looks like they did.

You left the country after a really awful thing happened.

Yeah.

The scene is fucking real convenient.

Richard Dominic said, there's a rumor going out that the company took the entire show and sent us to Jamaica to get Jerry out of the country.

That is bullshit because you can't take a whole show and 60 people on a whim and move them.

It's impossible.

And said that Springer would have quit if the show was somehow responsible for the events that led to Nancy's death.

No, he just said he didn't even remember them.

He totally blew off the question.

What are you talking about?

I don't know.

So

then

Eleanor tells the cops.

She's got to do something for her immunity here.

She tells the cops that Ralph was so upset after being banned from the house and banished that he banned Bard and banished from the house that he tried to kill himself by jumping in front of a moving car, but the driver swerved.

She said then he'd been drinking that day, all day, and they all watched the Springer show at the bar, and Ralph was drunk when they all went to collect the couple's belongings.

Nancy and the sheriff's deputies arrived while they were there, and Ralph fled through the back of the home while Eleanor and Marcus left in their car.

When they returned to get him, Eleanor said she found him dazed on the street, running down the street, picked him up and left.

Marcus, who found the door barricaded, he was the one who called authorities.

Eleanor said she feared that her husband would be arrested for violating the restraining order, so they fled the state looking for a German consulate to help.

Eleanor was asked by her lawyer in this questioning if she thought her husband had killed his ex-wife.

she said, quote, I can't imagine that he did.

No matter everything that's happened, Ralph has always said, I don't hate Nancy.

I don't hate that woman.

And she also said she didn't see any blood on her husband, which I find extremely hard to believe, just extremely hard to believe.

They did find her blood on his shoes and shoe prints matching in her face and floor and his DNA under her fingernails as well.

You know, fighting back.

That's your fuck.

Yeah.

Done.

I mean, that's that's all blood here, blood there, shoe print.

Your shoes in the blood, man.

You did it.

Your Skecher print fits her face fucking indentation.

So talk shows now, it's even more under fire with these fucking talk shows.

Here is an article called Do the Show Get the Treatment.

This is from the Times of London, you know, England.

Yeah.

And it says, let's say, for the sake of argument, that you had slept with your sister's husband.

You would probably want to keep quiet about it.

You might tell a priest, a therapist, or your closest confidant, but no one else.

But if you lived in Hicksville, USA, however, you might take a different approach.

You might appear on a North America TV show, ambush your sister with the good news, proposition her husband, and wait for the punch-up to begin.

What's wrong with the people who appear on U.S.

reality talk shows?

Shouldn't they be receiving psychological or psychiatric treatment rather than disporting themselves on continent-wide TV?

Why do they get out of bearing their darkest secrets before?

What do they get out of bearing their darkest secrets before millions?

They say these questions were brought into stark focus when the Nancy Campbell Panitz murder happened just hours after millions had watched her pre-recorded appearance on the Jerry Springer show.

But if America and the rest of the talk show watching world was shocked by that death, there's one man who's not surprised, Jamie Heisman,

H-U-Y-S-M-A-N, a licensed child and family therapist from Florida who has a business called Aftercare, providing help for the, quote, disposable people who appear on U.S.

talk shows.

God, dang.

That's the best way to describe them for society.

We're literally like, run out there.

Dance around, just ruin your lives, ruin your employment prospects, embarrass yourself in front of your friends, ruin your relationships, punch each other in the face, and then when I'm tired of watching you, fuck off so the next people can come out and do it.

Disposable.

That's kind of disposable.

Yeah, this guy made a career out of these people, some of whom who do require psychological treatment.

Television producers pay him to barter these deals so that tragedies such as this death can be averted.

What a weird business this guy has.

It's the same thing over and over again,

which is very

interesting here.

So, yeah, this guy anyway claims that this, you know, he was pitching it to the networks to have a guy like this.

I guess he was on the Geraldo Rivera show at one point to argue with a journalist from the National Inquirer.

Why?

Which is interesting.

Who knows?

Geraldo needed somebody to argue with, and there was no Klansmen and Black Panthers available that day.

No Nazis and fucking, you know, rabbi coalition people.

So

a father and daughter who

were engaged in an incestuous relationship had agreed to appear on the show in disguise.

And this guy said the disguises were poor.

He looked terrible.

She looked pretty bad.

And then, of all things, they brought out her identical twin sister without any disguise.

She looks like that.

So things like that happen.

This guy says, everyone asks, why does anyone go on talk shows?

Most of these people have tried everything to deal with the issue at hand.

There's hospitals all over the country that they can't get into unless they've been on a talk show and unless the treatment centers get the prominence they're seeking.

So,

yeah, they said to get ratings on TV, you need great clinical challenges.

The guests have to be very sick to get good ratings.

So it can be heinous people.

So it can be a heinous couple or trio you bring onto a stage with big problems.

That's kind of how it goes.

And he talks just all about different people's

going on, you know, all different people he's dealt with, basically, and the people he's worked for.

I guess the Lisa show hires him so he can do oh boy treat the people afterwards or whatever so ralph's trial comes up now okay it is a media fucking circus man yeah media circus um they say that uh the jerry springer show shows in great britain which is why we're all here which is what a british british reporter said everybody in england

he's getting paid for that

jerry must have been incredibly wealthy he made He actually didn't make that much money because he didn't own that show.

That wasn't

the production company.

Really?

They hired him to be the host of the show.

So he didn't make

dick compared to Oprah, who owns her syndicated show, or Arsinio or somebody like that who made money.

Jerry did not make as much money as everybody else.

He may have made $60 to $75 million.

Wow.

Oprah made billions.

Billions, different.

I think Arsinio made more than that in 1991.

Yeah.

Because he owned the show and had the syndication rights.

He had a salary of $8 million a year.

That's crazy.

That is insane.

Most underpaid.

He beat Oprah.

Yeah, he was the most underpaid guy on television by far.

He was just the host.

That's it.

So, yeah, it showed over there.

Think about them watching American trailer trash fight each other.

That's like if we were watching

British people drink tea properly.

Yeah.

That's what we look at.

That's what they think of us anyway.

So

they can look at it.

So, this guy went on to say it made quite a big story when it happened.

German and Japanese television stations have also shown interest.

So, they're going to be coming.

It's just a big deal.

Court TV planned to broadcast parts of the trial live.

A Court TV cameraman said the station had three different crews at the courthouse covering various angles of the trial, and they expect the defense attorney, Feger, a Michigan attorney who defended the assisted suicide advocate

Dr.

Kvorkian

to make the trial interesting.

He's a big, yeah,

he did that.

Yeah, that's right.

He didn't, he wasn't involved in the lawsuit.

He was involved in Kvorkian.

Wrong about that.

So this guy said, he'll keep things moving and keep things entertaining.

He's entertaining, all right?

I'll say that much.

So the Sarasota County Courthouse Media Room, although crowded, was able to hold about a dozen journalists.

And they said, this is so easy for the media.

If this would have happened in Bradenton, it would have have been a nightmare because they have the, I guess, the facilities for it here.

Representing Panettz is Jeffrey Feiger or Figer, the Michigan attorney known for defending suicide Dr.

Kvorkian and suing the Jenny Jones show.

Never mind.

He did.

He was involved in both.

If it's public and he'll get attention, he'll do it.

He's into it, yeah.

Fieger said he's going to call Jerry Springer himself as a witness.

He already said, I don't remember these people.

So good luck.

Figer says police have accused the wrong man.

Oh, really?

Mistaken identity, man.

That's all really.

He had another German guy running away with bloody footprints.

It's fine.

He said the detectives decided Ralph was the killer immediately and never looked for another suspect because his shoe prints were in her face.

I think we got.

Hey, what are we talking about here?

While Feger declined to say who he thinks the killer is, he did say he wanted to defend Ralph to ensure the German citizen had adequate representation.

He said, I think it's important we show the rest of the world that we really are a paragon of freedom and the judicial system is not like what Mr.

Bush wants to set up, these military tribunal kangaroo courts.

This is a good, you know, because this is a time, you know, we're not looking that great on the world stage.

Let's look better on the world stage by letting this guy go.

They'll love us for that.

Yeah.

He remained a critic of outlandish television talk shows, this lawyer also, saying they provoke violence and should be held responsible for endangering people, but he insists that's not the case here.

He said these shows do have the potential to provoke violence.

They are really playing with fire.

I don't know if the evidence is going to show that the show was a provocative element in this killing.

In any case, Ralph Panitz didn't do this killing.

Didn't do it.

So someone who saw them on Jerry Springer decided to come over and kill Nancy because she didn't fight enough.

One of the producers, maybe.

Nancy's family's attorney said Nancy was the victim of domestic violence.

One of our concerns is that this has been about domestic violence and that that message doesn't seem to get through to anybody.

He said that the family is still considering a civil lawsuit against the show, but wants to wait until after the criminal case is over to decide.

Jesus Christ.

They also said that the show had a responsibility to check for a history of domestic violence before putting people in a confrontational situation.

Which, I mean, that makes sense.

They love confrontation.

I know.

I think they look for domestic violence in terms of they'll be great guests.

They fight at home when no one's encouraging them to.

Imagine if we put them out here.

They said certainly there should be heightened security or scrutiny.

They should ask if there is a history of domestic violence.

And if the answer is yes, they should not be allowed on the show.

This lawyer also says, I'll defend Mr.

Springer's right to put whatever he wants on the show, but with those rights come some responsibilities.

Now, here are the different cases for the prosecution on the defense.

The prosecutor's case is: this dip shit killed his wife.

That's it.

Came over, killed her.

The defense is,

this is wild.

Someone else committed violence upon her, but that's not even what killed her.

You know how she died?

What?

Heart attack.

Sometimes they make your face explode, man.

Dude, all the bones pop right off your face when you have a heart attack.

It's really high blood pressure.

Boom, it'll pop you.

The prosecution in their opening, this trial trial is amazing.

Okay.

The prosecution told the jurors a little bit of a different story than that, describing Ralph as a black belt intruder who brutally beat and stomped poor Nancy to death.

In his opening remarks, Charlie Roberts, the prosecutor, spoke to the mostly female jury.

That's not good for Ralph, I don't think, in this particular case.

being his womanizing and his domestic violence

for 40 minutes detailing his theory of the crime.

Nancy Campbell was confronted by her husband, this is a quote, in her home.

Ralph Panitz used his martial arts skills and beat and stomped Nancy to death.

Said that Panitz choked Nancy with such strength as to break bones in her neck.

Also said that Ralph was angry because earlier in the day a judge had granted Nancy possession of the house, and also then the Jerry Springer show was on.

She said this prosecutor said her only defense were her fingernails.

Ralph Panitz stomped on her head with such force that his shoe left a treadwear impression on Nancy's face and separated the bones of the face from the bones of the skull.

Oof.

Also says her fingernails contained DNA that was shown to be consistent with that of Ralph and that he had blood on his shoes.

And holy shit, I have common sense.

I mean, obviously, what's going on here?

So he said one of the major pieces of evidence was the pair of shoes he was wearing when he turned himself in.

He said Ralph leaves numerous bloody shoe impressions around his ex-wife's body as well as on her face.

Blood on the defendant's right shoe matched the victim's blood.

Expert testimony will show individualized wear patterns on the shoes match the specific wear patterns that show up in Nancy Campbell's blood on the kitchen floor.

Okay.

Roberts told the jury that the morning of the day that Nancy died, she'd gone to court

begging the judge for protection from Ralph.

They said, you'll hear her own words in a tape of the hearing telling the judge that the defendant had, quote, chased me with a knife and made threats about taking my life.

He also said another witness will testify that Ralph said, quote, she'll die someday and the house will be mine.

Wow.

The defense takes a different approach, do they?

It's hours long, over two hours for an opening statement, which you're playing with fire there.

I mean, two hours of

somebody else coming up.

Yeah.

This is America.

If you're putting something up for two hours, it better have transformers and car chases and shit, or else no one is watching that shit.

Nobody's paying attention.

Even the Springer show was an hour long, and that was, you know, hillbillies trying to murder each other.

And we still were like, that's an hour.

I'm tired of that.

So.

Wow.

They said, this is from a newspaper article.

In a scenario befitting the tabloid television backdrop of the Jerry Springer murder trial, defense attorneys for Ralph Panitz painted an unsolved mystery that they say involves a setup, a missing right shoe, a botched police probe, and an uninvestigated suspect covered in blood who they claim is the real killer of Nancy.

This is sillier than OJ.

Wow, this is crazy.

So in a two-hour plus opening statement that puts some courtroom observers to sleep, Fieger countered the prosecution's allegations of what happened July 24th, 2000, and pointed the finger at Marcus Panitz.

It's the nephew who did it.

Wow.

Who was a key witness against his uncle?

Feger said that witnesses saw the nephew dead drunk at the time

Campbell had died or Nancy had died.

Marcus is the one who called police saying his, quote, aunt was hurt.

The prosecutor has made a horrible mistake.

The evidence in this case is circumstantial.

Yeah.

No, there's DNA evidence, but we'll get to that.

There's substantial DNA, James.

No, no, he's got his own idea of what DNA is, and it's hilarious.

It's wild.

So the evidence in this case is circumstantial.

There's no witness and no proof.

He said not only that did he not kill Nancy, but that she wasn't even murdered.

No?

Bones broken in her neck.

She was strangled so hard, and her face stomped to unrecognizability.

This guy says, quote, diabetes, obesity, and heart disease caused her death.

Unbelievable.

Are you the balls to go?

She's just a fat and lazy.

That's why she died.

Her fucking head is smashed.

What did she do?

She

tried to leave and get a job because she was so lazy.

Lazy.

That is insane.

He went on to say she wasn't murdered.

She was engaged in some fight, then fell and had a heart attack.

Unbelievable.

Then he told the jury that DNA isn't consistent enough.

Not the DNA in this case, DNA in general.

Is that right?

They said that the DNA under Nancy's fingernails was statistically more likely to come from a Hispanic male than from Ralph Panitz.

Here it is: the quote of the day, everybody.

DNA is just a fancy word for a guess.

Huh?

Everybody taking that in?

That's a fancy word for a guess.

Two, we're never speechless.

No, that's insane.

A fancy word for a guess.

By 2001, we all knew what DNA was, man.

That is crazy.

DNA stands for do not assume.

Oh, yeah.

If Nancy touched any of Ralph's clothing, he would have his DNA on her hands, not under her finger.

No, under her finger.

Do not assume.

What the fuck?

Just a guess.

Then they go on to disparage Nancy, telling the jury that Nancy had lied to the judge about her fear of Ralph,

just trying to get nefariously get him out of the house so she could have it all for herself.

Yeah, so she could just be lazy in there all alone.

That's right.

They said that his nephew, and they wanted to get rid of not only him, but his nephew and his new wife, and to have the home all to herself.

Quote, she abused the legal system to punish these poor people.

Oh, my God.

Or these people, not poor.

I put that in myself.

Then about the shoe prints, he says, figure tells the jury that all 19 of the shoe prints around the victim's body are of the right shoe and that there are no shoe prints leading away from the crime scene.

Quote, did he fly away?

There's something really strange about these footprints.

It would be anatomically impossible for a person not to leave the left shoe print.

The shoe prints

showed perfect impressions or imprints in blood at various distances from the body.

This would be impossible unless you use the shoe like a stamp and continually dip it in blood.

So they're saying the cops took his shoe, which, by the way, he had on his foot still.

Yeah.

Hence, borrowed it to make shoe prints in the crime scene.

Yeah.

And then he got in the car and left.

I don't know how you'd even.

They said, hey, what kind of shoes does Ralph wear?

Skechers?

Okay.

We got that.

And then we can take care of that.

That is wild.

So Fieger also told the jury that Panitz didn't have a drop of blood on his clothing or in the car as he rode in, that he rode in for four days, but he promised to show the jury pictures of Marcus Panitz, his pants legs splattered in blood.

It's all his fault.

Now, the prosecution calls a witness to testify that he had seen Ralph at a restaurant that evening and he did not appear drunk.

Oh.

I think he's also German.

I think that he can absorb it and do it well.

I think the Germans know how to hold their beer.

Ten ice houses isn't going to put a German down.

That ain't going to do it.

No, not at all.

They drink.

They drink a heavier

teeth with ice houses.

Yeah, that's pussy shit.

You drink that on the basketball court instead of Gatorade.

You just put that in a water bottle and squirt it on you.

Now, nephew Marcus is on the stand for more than eight hours.

They grill him.

He spoke through a German interpreter, which must have been a lot of fun for the jury to

eight hours of German to English, and oh, God.

And not only that, he told all the stuff that we said earlier that he said about going to 7-Eleven and coming in.

He just testified to all of that.

Ralph testifies in his own defense.

He's going to try to

charm the jury because, as we know, nothing's more charming than Germans.

Yeah.

They're known as they're real cuddly and warm and really will win your heart.

They do charm.

I don't know how, but somehow they figure it out.

They're not real cuddly, though.

They're not like

cuddly like a cactus.

Ralph, he said, quote, we just wanted to tell, talking about the Jerry Springer show, said we just wanted to tell her that we were married and leave us alone.

What happened on the show, we never intended.

Okay.

He also said he learned of his ex-wife's death days later after he had left the state when his wife's father called and told him about it.

That was it.

He said, I was extremely in shock.

This is a German accent.

I was extremely in shock.

I could not believe what happened.

They said he appeared confident and relaxed on the stand.

He denied hurting his wife, but he also testified that he doesn't remember much of what happened that afternoon until he woke up in a car being driven north on I-95 by his wife the next day.

I don't really remember much before that, he said.

Interesting.

He told the jurors he felt guilty about disrupting Marcus's life, and that's why he started drinking several 16-ounce bottles of ice house beer soon after the court hearing when his wife and nephew cleared, while his wife and nephew cleared the belongings.

He said that he, this is here it is, it's coming up.

He testified that he drank another four to six bottles of beer when he and his nephew went to the neighborhood bar to watch the Springer show.

Later, switching to rum and cokes when he started buying rounds of drinks for a stranger who he believed was Chevy Chase.

He testified to this.

He said, I switched to rum and Cokes because I wanted to hang out with this guy, with Chevy Chase.

So he continuously bought, quote, Chevy Chase rounds of drinks.

Kind of looked like the guy.

Because he looked like Chevy Chase, apparently.

I don't want to talk about your career, so I'll just buy your drinks for you.

I'm a good guy.

That's amazing.

He's so drunk he thought Chevy Chase was hanging out in the shithole neighborhood bar.

How blind drunk were you

that you thought a man from SNL was sitting next to you?

Holy shit.

Is that Fletch over there?

What's going on?

What's happening?

That is not Chevy Chase.

The moose out front should have told you.

Oh yeah, exactly.

The show came on at the bar, but Ralph said he never saw it.

Yeah.

He said, I can't remember the show at all.

I must have fell asleep.

If you fell asleep at the bar, your ass would have been outside.

Yeah, they would have tossed you.

I was a bouncer.

Sleepers are the first people that are out.

They're gone.

They're done.

Out.

You're done.

Number one, you're too drunk to be in here.

Number two, you're not buying anything more because you're sleeping.

Fuck off.

And as somebody sleeps, the deeper they sleep, the more comfortable they get.

You're going to be on the fucking floor sprawled out.

You're going to be on the floor farting soon.

Get out.

Farting ice house.

Oh, God.

Snoring.

It's a medrooling.

We're just trying to enjoy 50 Cents new album.

Get out.

Get the fuck out.

So Ralph testified at some point that day, he ended up at his ex-wife's home and vaguely remembers lying on a bed while he was there.

The next thing, quote, the next thing I recall was sleeping and Marcus and Eleanor saying something about the police are here and I have to hide.

He said that he also has vague recollections of Eleanor telling him to get in the car.

He said he woke up the next morning as she was driving north through Georgia.

He said that they didn't learn of his ex-wife's death until Eleanor called her father, who told them a woman at the house had been slain and that they were wanted.

Ralph said he cried at the news of his ex-wife's death, adding that he still, he still had feelings for her.

Yeah, I don't want her dead.

Fuck.

She said,

I had very deep emotion for Nan.

I couldn't believe she was actually dead.

Wow.

Now, cross-examination, he denied that he was upset about being forced to move.

Said, that's fine.

I didn't care.

That was a little bit.

He said,

you know who it really pissed off, though?

Nancy.

Marcus.

Oh.

That's who it pissed off.

He is literally blaming Marcus.

He's blaming Marcus.

Yeah.

He said, that's who really, that really made him mad.

I'll tell you what.

So they first, it was first-degree murder charges here.

But they end up dropping somewhere in the case here, they dropped the first degree for a second-degree murder.

Yeah.

So that's what he's going to the jury for, is second-degree murder.

Yeah.

Now, the jury, it's 10 days of a trial, 18 hours of deliberation.

I don't exactly know what they're talking about for 18 fucking hours.

I can't.

I mean, what?

Like fishing this weekend?

What are they talking about in there for 18 hours?

I don't get this.

I don't know.

Can you believe he's wearing Skechers?

Yeah.

Skechers and Chevy Chase, you guys.

He's a moron.

Those Germans are fucking weird.

They see Chevy Chase and everyone.

Oh, every American looks like Chevy Chase to you.

Is that what you're telling me?

Great.

Thanks.

Chevy Chase.

Several hours, by the way, several days, 18 hours over several days.

I think it's four days of deliberation, which is crazy.

He is found guilty of second-degree murder.

Of course.

Yeah.

He is.

During sentencing, he doesn't attend his own sentencing.

Doesn't want to hear it.

Nope.

Doesn't want to hear it.

He's like Lori Fallow going, I don't want to hear it.

Can we just except he doesn't agree to stipulate?

Awaiting my responses from Chevy Chase.

Yep.

He watched TV.

He watched the sentencing on TV in a holding cell.

Eleanor said that he was on a hunger strike to protest his confinement in jail.

Well, yeah, I don't

either.

Go ahead and don't eat them.

See if I give a fuck.

Knock yourself out.

Fuck do I care?

Nancy's sons, Gary and Jeffrey,

and Nancy's sister all asked for a life sentence.

Yeah.

Here, they said he's a violent, angry, manipulative man who should not be allowed to enter society again.

That's Gary, the son Gary.

The judge...

Does not like Ralph.

No.

To say the least.

Oh, no.

Not a fan.

The judge judge holds up a bloody picture of Nancy's face for all the court to see.

Oh, fuck.

And says, Ralph Panitz, this is how she died.

You know, you're in deep shit at that point.

For the cameras, so he could see it in his little cell there.

Yeah.

I sentence you to the only just sentence in this case.

You, sir, may fuck off life without parole.

Wow.

Keep on keeping on.

This judge had the flexibility in second degree.

He could have gotten as little as 20 years.

As little as,

that's so long.

Oh, that's a lot, but it's not life without.

No.

He could have got 20 years, which you're out in 10 or 12 rather than even 14.

It's better than never, never, never, never.

Never, never, never, ever, ever.

So the judge went on to say that this is the maximum sentence allowed by law for second degree murder, saying he showed no remorse,

held up the photograph, and said that a life sentence is only just a sentence.

And then said the judge also had harsh words for Jerry Springer, too,

which is amazing.

The judge said that the trio were, quote, manipulated by the show to increase their humiliation, and it was reprehensible.

To Jerry Springer and his producers, I ask you, are ratings more important than the dignity of human life?

The answer is yes to them.

Yeah, dignity doesn't mean anything to them.

What's dignity?

Then said, shame on you, shame on you.

I mean, you could have said words.

You can't sentence them to anything, but, you know, you can call him, you're a dick.

Eleanor, after this is all over,

they said, could be seen smiling and laughing before and after the hearing and said, quote, we don't agree with this verdict.

We don't think it was a fair trial.

We really expect this will be overturned and we'll have a new trial.

Jerry Springer Show, here's a statement from them.

They said in a statement, neither the show nor its producers were in any way responsible.

They said, quote, this murder transpired nearly three months after the taping of an episode and happened the day it aired, you fucking asshole.

You can't ignore that.

After the taping, who gives a shit?

Yeah, it aired.

That's the point.

And was pointed out during the criminal proceedings.

Many events occurred that were totally unrelated to the taping of the show.

I think it definitely escalated shit, though.

It certainly aggravated a volatile situation.

Fuck yeah.

Eleanor disagrees, though.

Eleanor accuses the show of putting her husband and ex-wife in the same hotel room for a night so that there would be a sexual interlude between them.

Eleanor said that the encounter fueled

Nancy's obsession with Ralph, is what she said.

By the way, there's later on, there's an interview with Nancy's sister, or not Nancy's, I'm sorry, Eleanor's sister, where Eleanor is like, yeah, the show sent the two of them together and put them in the same room.

What do you think is going to happen?

I mean, he is an adult.

That one.

Huh?

What?

So that means he has to stick it in her, I guess.

Every room that you're in with a woman, James, you have to fuck them.

That's the thing.

Yeah, you will fuck them if you're an adult.

It's just the rule.

I don't know what I'm telling you.

But the way she did, she was like, he is an adult.

Yeah.

What?

That's wild.

The defense lawyer is now sued.

Who do you think sued him?

The prosecution?

No.

Did Ralph do it?

Nope.

Oh, Jerer.

What?

Juror sued him.

Have you ever heard of this before almost 600 episodes?

Okay.

Because during the trial,

this is amazing here.

During the trial, he'll have to return to Florida now for litigation stemming.

He was served Friday with a slander lawsuit

filed by one of the jurors,

a juror named Owen Stacey, called a juror named Owen Stacey, quote, a Nazi and a creep.

You can't say that.

Right after the verdict was announced outside the court, that's what he said.

That guy on the jury, this one, gave his name, said he's a Nazi and a creep.

Wow.

Okay.

Then why the fuck didn't you strike him then?

You could have

heard beforehand.

You could have had him gone.

Questioned by the media about the lawsuit, he professed to be unconcerned.

He said, I would say the definition of mental illness is suing Jeff Fieger.

He used his name in the third person.

The definition.

I know.

It's easy to hate lawyers, but this guy is like...

He is a guy.

I mean, he's like, come on, give me a lawyer.

That's right.

What do you call it?

What do you call me drowning in the ocean, huh?

What do you call it?

Fucking bad lawyer jokes.

So

he just

Ramstein all day about himself.

All day.

He then, the lawyer, filed his own defamation suit against 12th Circuit Chief Judge Thomas Gallin.

Yeah.

The suit is in a response to a letter by Gallin published in the newspaper.

In it, Gallin said Feger should be punished for calling the juror

calling two different jurors' names.

Oh.

Yeah.

So

Gallin filed a complaint against Feger with the Florida Bar, and the officials of the bar have launched an inquiry.

It's a mess.

Then the children of Nancy file a lawsuit against the Jerry Springer show.

Program

denies any responsibility.

Jeffrey said the whole situation just erased the whole middle part of my life.

I dealt with it for the last 20 years now.

Here I am, 24 years later, still talking about it.

That's what he said in 2025 or 2024.

He said, it has been a pretty big impact.

It's hard to trust people anymore.

Sure.

That was in 2002, they sue.

In 2003, they are going to drop the lawsuit.

They dropped the lawsuit.

It was for $25 million.

They settled for nothing, basically.

Oh, they got nothing out of it.

Nice.

Yeah, remember that big giant reward that the Jenny Jones jury gave out?

Well, a Michigan appeals court threw out the $29.3 million verdict against the Jenny Jones show, saying the program had no legal duty to protect a guest who was slain after appearing on the show.

And the family lawyer for Nancy's family said the Jones ruling was one of several issues that led us to get the matter resolved.

Yes, they don't have any responsibility to protect them, but they do have the responsibility to not make it worse.

Yeah, to not

exacerbate a fucking word.

Yeah, don't fucking make a situation worse that you know is already volatile.

Yeah, not to step on somebody's stubbed toe, probably.

And the way Jenny interviewed that, too, it was so gross.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

That was weird.

What do you think?

How are you feeling?

you know what he's feeling

giggling and everybody giggling toxic douche yeah

man so they dropped the suit in the settlement agreement the show's attorneys agreed not to counter sue for malicious prosecution they said quote it was a walk away which means they walked away everybody walked away right that was that that's um

That's interesting, man.

Very, very interesting.

I guess Eleanor had responded to, this is the teaser she called.

Remember, they'd be like, if you're experiencing this, this, or this, call the Jerry Springer show.

Is there somebody who wants to disturb your relationship?

Call Jerry.

That's all they.

Oh, boy.

That's that was the question she responded to.

Yep, that is fucked up.

Jeffrey said, I don't think they've ever been held accountable for anything.

People just watching the show and think, oh, this is normal.

It's not.

All right.

Then 2010.

You know the show Prison Wives?

Yeah.

Okay.

Second episode of Prison Wives is all Eleanor.

Is that she married him?

They're still together.

No.

No fucking way.

This is 2010.

They were still together.

Yeah.

Eleanor says that the squabble and the publicity it generated influenced the outcome of the trial, by the way, she says

on this.

She says, I wish that we had never gone on that show, meaning Springer.

I believe my husband is innocent, and I will never give up on trying to get his sentence reduced.

Now, on the show, they show her, by the way, on this show, she is not doing well, Eleanor.

No.

She's living in a tiny, shitty trailer.

Yeah.

And the park is like the trailers are like three feet from each other.

It looks like a giant

storage place.

Yeah.

There's no like driveways up to them, half of them.

It's maybe there are, I don't know, but it looks like a self-storage place.

Yeah.

And she talks about how she can barely afford food.

And like they show her making this really bleak fucking dinner.

Wow.

It's not good, dude.

She is not doing well.

They show her like talking to a friend of hers outside.

And she's like, you know, because this was 2010.

So there was a bad recession at the time still from 2007.

And they were like, you know, the job market sucks.

And she was doing, she worked as a sales rep for an online college.

So telemarketing for college scammers, in other words.

Telemarketing for something probably barely accredited.

If it is at all.

A lot of those, that was 2010.

That was the golden age of those schools before they all had to pay a billion dollars in fucking fines and shit.

So she said that there was a risk that the company was closing down and she wasn't going to have her job anymore.

And her friends telling her to get out and look for a job.

And she's just depressed.

It says on the show she's in constant financial turmoil.

But she says, Ralph says he's not guilty.

Or I'm sorry, Ralph says they cut to Ralph in prison and he says, he's not guilty.

And he says, I don't deserve this.

He's a victim, James.

Wow.

And then she says, quote, I love him dearly.

And maybe someday I'll get to see him walk out of prison, a free man.

That would be the absolute happiest moment of my life.

Okay.

Sure.

Ralph says, my specific struggle is

that I cannot be for my wife.

Oh, I cannot be for my wife, he says.

Yeah.

When she needs.

What does it be for?

There.

I think the word there is missing.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Be there for.

When she, what does that be for?

To sting you, silly.

To make honey, silly.

When she needs me the most financially, this is the greatest struggle I have.

You're in life without parole.

Her financial

fuck about your financial situation.

You're never getting out.

But she supports him in there.

She gives him money and all that.

She says he doesn't have anyone else to give him money, so I have to

support both of us.

She does, apparently.

Crazy.

Ralph says, I thought back, this is they asked Ralph about Nancy in 2010.

He says, I thought that back then that she was just wicked, wicked, evil, and trying to destroy what she can't have.

She tried to destroy Eleanor.

You killed this lady, and you're saying this.

And they claim that they went out of the on the show.

They only went on Springer because it's the only recourse they had because their life was turned upside down by Nancy stalking.

That's what they're saying now.

Yeah.

Ralph is in the Polk Correctional Facility

currently.

And I think he's been there the whole time.

Eleanor and Ralph are still together.

Wow.

Still.

He has been in jail for 25 fucking years.

She's still with him.

What is she an angel or is she an asshole?

I can't show.

She is a glutton for punishment, a bit of a dummy, I think.

Perhaps she deserves this.

Maybe this is just very fitting and awesome.

We don't know what she did before.

Maybe this is karma.

So

I don't know, but if you go to her Facebook profile, it's only pictures of the two of them in prison.

Really?

You know, those prison pictures where you're allowed to take a picture of them against that block wall.

Yeah, that block mural wall with a couple of paper palm trees taped to the wall on the sides of it.

So it like makes a little fucking very colorful flowers behind you.

Makes like a red carpet fucking photo shoot.

She screams both of you.

It looks nice.

Nice job.

Oh, my God.

She's living in that little trailer while keeping up with Ralph.

This is what they said in the prison wives thing.

Simplicity and scarcity are now the norm for Ellie.

She lives paycheck to paycheck, has very little social life and no children.

She sits in a depressing little trailer waiting to go see this scumbag in prison every week.

That's all she does.

Simplicity.

That's it.

She still stands by Ralph, continues to support him financially, visits him every weekend.

Wow.

And she says he did not get a fair trial.

Eleanor insists that law enforcement didn't look for any suspects.

She believed they rushed to blame Ralph simply because they recognized him from the Jerry Springer show.

You know, just he's super famous, that's all.

No, it's because he wears skechers, and that's what was on her face.

That's it.

And her blood was also on his shoes and her fingernail DNA.

The reality in Eleanor's eyes is that they pinned the crime on him without fully investigating the possibilities.

Her support for him hasn't wavered.

She remains convinced that Ralph deserves a chance to be repatriated to Germany, hoping that a transfer there might lead to a lesser sentence.

But he's not going anywhere.

He's been there 25 years and he's going to continue to be there, I think.

There you go.

That is Sarasota, Florida, and the Jerry Springer show and one twisted, fucked up ass story.

I'll tell you what.

So shitty.

Such a shitty story.

If you like that show and shitty stories in general, please, please get on whatever app you're on and please give us five stars, whatever you're listening on.

It helps so fucking much

drive us up the charts.

Takes like 30 seconds to do and it helps the show immensely.

So, you know, be a mention, do that, would you?

All right.

Do that.

Also, shut up and givememurder.com.

You get your tickets for live shows.

If you're listening to this on the early release and it's within the two-week window of April 19th after that, you can still get the virtual live show.

Costumes, bongs, Sasquatch, crazy story.

You can't miss it.

It's all there.

Story has it all, people.

So check that out.

And also get your tickets for regular live shows, especially Chicago at the Riviera, May 17th.

We can't wait.

St.

Louis was sold out the night before.

So you guys get in there and get your tickets and sell this bad boy out for us if you would.

And get tickets for the rest of the year, too, because a lot of those shows are selling out.

Like Portland in November sold out.

Big theater sold out.

Crazy.

Get your tickets.

Grand Rapids, San Diego, all these.

So please get your tickets now.

Shut up and give me murder.com.

Follow on social media at small town murder on Instagram, at small townpod on Facebook, patreon.com slash crime in sports, p-a-t-r-e-o-n dot com slash crime in sports.

You get all the bonus material you could possibly want there.

All you got to be is $5 a month or above, and you're going to get a back catalog that would choke an elephant.

Hundreds, hundreds.

It'll It'll crush a woman's head like a German's foot.

Hundreds of back episodes you've never heard before.

Load under a skecher.

Like a German skecher.

So, yeah, you get all that back catalog.

You get new ones every other week after that.

And so binge on those, then get new ones every other week.

One crime and sports, one small-town murder.

You get it all.

This week for crime and sports, we're going to talk about college coach sex scandals.

They are a horny, boy.

A plentiful.

A plenty.

Horny, a plenty.

For their students, for other people, and just normal faculty.

They're all married.

They're all cheating.

It's crazy.

We'll talk about that.

Then for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about some death row last meals and not the real famous ones.

We went over those about five, six years ago on Patreon, if you go back through the archives, but some more kind of under-the-radar ones, just because it's interesting.

It is.

It doesn't have to be a serial killer.

I just want to know what Joe Schmo ate for his last meal.

It's psychologically fascinating to me.

So I can't wait to see that.

That'll be fun.

Patreon.com/slash crime in sports.

And you get a shout out

right fucking now.

Jimmy, please hit me with the names of the most wonderful goddamn people in the world who never, ever wear skechers while they murder.

Hit me with them right now.

This week's executive producers are Martin Marufo, Catherine

Domerod.

Catherine, it's her birthday, and she's 70, and she loves us.

Thank you, Catherine, for being with you.

And we love you back, Catherine.

Thank you so much.

Happy birthday.

Anne-Marie Fitzgerald, Judy Anderson, Brittany Robertson, and Gary Howard.

Thank you all so much for doing this with us.

Thank you, guys.

It's great to have you.

Other producers this week: Ryan Dempsey, Liz Vasquez, Peyton Meadows, Melissa Warburton, Alexander Whelan, Janice Hill.

Happy Hour.

Checking in in Raymer, Colorado.

Stephanie H, Ryan Stasiak.

Jake with no last name.

Anna Kinsella.

Sarah Fowler.

Taylor Reed.

David Schaefer.

Deanna Dina, maybe.

Fleming, Brie Mack, Stephanie with no last name.

David Lista, Kate, K and 8, Lisa with no last name, Robin would no last name, Bob Higer, Catherine with no last name, Christy Ingram, Dynamo Prince, Fadre Morph, Easter, Easter Wester.

Okay, Easton Weston.

Is that right?

Is that a real name?

No way.

Shit, I don't even know.

Maybe Renee with no last name.

Martina Renee, also.

Marcus Van Zee,

Bonnie Rindahl, Gypsy Pliss, Plea, maybe.

Joel Cherney, Tosherney, Mickey Kirstein, Kirstein, Rachel Fields, Molly Ott, Victoria Mullen, Allison Sialis.

What?

No way.

Wira O'Liley.

She gets you going, boy.

Get it, girl, Allison.

Go get after it.

Christy Jameson, Steph C., Abby Thompson, Liliana Pierce, Heather Salcedo, Daisy Dow, maybe Doe,

Christian Sr., Miranda Connors, Beef Supreme.

Gross.

Kind of.

I don't know.

Is it gross?

Christina Brown.

Beef burrito.

That's decent.

Yeah.

Otherwise.

Some sour cream in that bad ball.

Takara Lyon.

Takara Takaro, right?

Probably.

Kayla Marquart.

Karen Smith.

Nicole Wolf.

Kelsey with no last name.

John

Karpinski.

Parkinsky.

Hampton Coney.

It's Karpinski.

Karpinski.

Matthew Karpinski.

Manchioni.

I like that guy.

Sheila.

What is this?

Coyne?

Corey Pregler.

W.

Pro?

Prow.

Prue.

Prow,

Willow Schottmer, Leanne Berry, Brian Rector,

Barrely,

Joe Seiert, Melissa Joe, Corinne with no last name, Trevor Geist, Geist, perhaps, Sherry Steed, Kindwall, Kindwall, maybe, Rebecca Haymond, Ashley Griffin, Diane with no last name, Deborah Ware, were, were, Carrie Black, Michelle with no last name, Anna Bush, Shana Rainish, Jay, the letter J.

Hugh Janus, James.

He's a big fan.

Hugh's a wonderful guy.

Truly his first name.

100% a real name.

But he likes everything.

You throw anything at him, it sticks.

You know what I mean?

What do you want?

Yeah, he's got a big appetite.

Angela Mareth, Narija, Joshi,

Niraj, Niraj Joshi, Joshi?

Fuck.

Saley Nimagata?

Nimagata?

Wow.

I'm terrible at this.

I'm

the least cultured person on the Samantha Bradshaw, cupcake, kitten, explosion.

I can do that.

Melissa with no last name.

Leslie Babcock, Banshee, Berushi, Berushi.

Alexander with no last name.

Cookie Davis, Michelle McGarrigal, McGarrigal.

Julia Paltridge,

Partridge with an L.

Annette Chrisman, Chrisman.

Okay.

There was a guy in high school that I went to school with, James.

His name was Jimmy Chrisman, and I was Jimmy Wisman, and it was the most annoying fucking thing thing on the planet.

I hate, but but he lived real crazy, so he would like do crit.

And they're like, I heard about this, you did.

I was like, What?

I was like, How would you know that?

What the hell are you talking about?

Then I just owned it after a little while.

Yeah, just started

living his life.

Fuck him.

I'm living his life.

Why not?

More interesting than mine.

David W., Janelle,

Steckl Stewa.

Steckle Stewa.

Shekel Stewa.

Right.

Yeah.

Shekel Stewa.

I don't know.

That's all I've got.

R.J.

King, Chris

Sugden, Sugden, Angie Urbania, Jason Bradley, Brooke Mortensen, Kimmy with no last name.

Kelly with no last name.

Jessica Patterson, Vanessa Fayo, Sean Hone, Hone, maybe.

Caleb Simwelly, Simwali,

Natasha with a J.

What the fuck?

Natasha Varney with a J.

You figure out where it is.

Michelle Holloway, Lauren Davey, Dobby, perhaps.

Ginger with no last name.

Grant Baker, Daniel Gibson,

Fish Twinkies, Gross, Brie Own, Oney, One,

One,

Mackenzie, Ramadaka,

Hrom,

Hromodka, Raymond Ryan, I got to sound it out like a moron.

Karen Mandeville, Chelsea Staton,

Glacinto, Colabastista,

Calabatista,

Bridget with no last name, Nick Spaghetti, Arms Cameron, Carol Peel, Medical procedure.

Natalie McHenry.

Kim Hill.

Katie Robinson.

Mark W.

Kyle Roeder.

Rosa Mowbray.

Mowbray.

Emily Touch It.

Touche.

It's Touch It.

That is Touch It.

Anyway, you shake it.

Donna Tale.

Tally, perhaps.

Emily, touch it.

Chris Rocano, Cade

Schulman, James Morgan, Aloysius B.

Gregg, Jennifer Brandt, Rogue with no last name, Mommy of Twins, Rodney Comer, Madison, Anna Chicheria, Carrico.

Fell apart.

Hannah Camp, Kayla with no last name.

Amy with no last name.

Nina Petricia.

Petrikian,

Ryan Kay, Alyssa Brown, Kay Smith, Megan Brenna, Ellen Newman, Devin with no last name.

Jamie Justice, Lana with no Lana Lana with no last name.

Dan with no last name.

Jamie Orjaime Augusto.

Emma Carvin.

Calvin.

Joe Crystal.

Casey Cassie, perhaps.

Coates.

Angela Peel.

Pyle.

Gross.

We'll go with Peel.

Mo Capicola rides again.

Capicola.

Capicola.

Don Thorpe.

Lance Brooks.

Home Ward.

Carla Baker.

Brenda Davey.

Chris with no last name.

Maya Hicks.

Sarah Hager.

Chris Devlin.

Michael Cockleman.

Oh, boy.

Brandy Collins.

Beatrice Anderson.

Alyssa R.

Kate Nash.

Charity with no last name.

Molly would no last name.

Zach Krueger, Kiki with no last name.

Taylor Brady, Jamie Lund, Sammy Grange, Joseph Ritchie, Amy, Amy, Amy, what?

Dockett.

Monica Cocky.

Cochie, perhaps.

Trevor with no last name.

Greg Bates, Allison Mendez, Melendez.

Jerry Jones got two of these.

So he's we're rolling on Dallas Cowboys money.

Well, I was going to say, when you're wildcatting around and buying football teams, he probably signed up and then didn't realize he got one and then got another.

Probably.

Yeah, well, thank you.

Don't be fast, Jerry.

You're a good man now, Jerry.

Yeah, now we like you.

Didn't like you before.

Betsy with no last name.

Haley Gregory, Mark Moore, Nathan Swenson, Jesse Plotkin, Lynn Capp, Jim McCoy, Jacqueline Michael, Michelle, perhaps, Robbie Arnold, Tracy Stilwell, Julie H., Brandon Alex, Mary, Laboon Morocco, Stephanie Hale, perhaps Haley, Tonnette Brown, Brittany Bach, Tyrell Battle, Zachary Gibson, Katie with no last name, and every patron that patrons this show.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much, everybody.

You're unbelievable.

We can't thank you enough, honestly.

We tried.

I don't even know what words to use.

Thank you for all that you do for us.

100 million is a crazy number.

Yeah, that's not money.

That's listen on Spotify.

Streaming.

You guys, just from Spotify.

You guys listen to this so much, and we can't thank you enough for changing our lives and making this viable and fun.

And we're going to keep going.

Let's go, James.

Let's keep going.

Yeah.

Let's do it.

Let's keep going.

But until then, and until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

Bye.

It's time to head back to school and forward to your future with Carrington College.

For over 55 years, we've helped train the next generation of healthcare professionals.

Apply now to get hands-on training from teachers with real-world experience.

And as few as nine months, you could start making a difference in healthcare.

Classes start soon in Pleasant Hills, San Leandro, and San Jose.

Visit Carrington.edu to see what's next for you.

Visit Carrington.edu/slash SCI for information on program outcomes.