Lady Leatherface - Aberdeen, New South Wales, Australia

Okay,

23?

What mixta?

Expera vuela salam

aquí que nitos gugando, but cor el sotano.

Oya wé eson 23 de agua.

Payno se mija, cheque al un internet.

Video, como guillionario.

Optain wi-fi en másón cones del locar con ATNT fiber con al-5.

ATNT connectar lo cambia todo.

ATNT fiber tener espon lived limita dacier tasaras.

Hi el servica de coverta wi-fi extendada 10 con carbada dinal almes.

This Labor Day at Value City Furniture, get up to 20% off your new living room and more throughout the store.

Think you deserve even more?

Same.

Like combining those savings with an extra 10% off door busters.

Plus, no interest financing for up to 40 months.

See if you pre-qualify without touching your credit score.

Yep, get more at Value City Furniture while paying less.

More style, more quality, more value.

We are Value City Furniture.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express.

Yen, choo-choo.

Oh, yay, indeed, Jimmy.

Yay, indeed.

My name is James Petrigallo.

I'm here with my co-host.

I'm Jimmy Wissman.

Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another absolutely insane edition of Small Town Murder Express.

We usually say 10 pounds of murder in a two-pound bag.

This is about 20 pounds of murder.

Oh, boy.

This is a lot we got for you today.

It's a crazy episode.

So buckle up, everybody.

We're going to start right now.

First of all, shutupandgiveme murder.com is where you get all of your tickets for live shows.

Get your tickets for the fall.

We have Philly, D.C., Seattle is available right now for sale.

So get in there and get those tickets before they're gone because a couple of them, they're over 97% sold out.

So you definitely want to get in there and do that.

So thank you for everyone that has.

Shut up and give me murder.com.

Also, listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports, just finished up a seven-part serial killer episode.

Very little sports.

You definitely check that out on Randall Woodfield, the I-5 killer, and Your Stupid Opinions, of course, where we just find the dumbest opinions from all over the internet in review form and make fun of them.

So that's a good time.

And you definitely want Patreon, patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of the bonus material

anybody five dollars a month or above you are going to get so much first of all a huge back catalog of stuff you've never heard before all bonus episodes hundreds of them available immediately upon subscription then you get new ones every other week one crime in sports one small town murder and you get them all

Every drop of it this week, which you're going to get for crime and sports, we're going to talk about more amusement park disasters.

Oh, it's time again.

It's been about six, eight months since we've done those.

So it's time again.

And then for Small Town Murder, it's back.

Hey,

the prisoner dating game.

What's fine?

All-violent felon edition.

Gonna line Jimmy up for bachelors, four bachelorettes.

He's gonna have no idea what they did until after he picks one.

Figure it out later.

It's a fun one.

We call it Avoid the Pedophile, the pedophile shell game.

But that's not all.

That's not all.

And now you also get everything: crime and sports, your stupid opinions, and both Small Town Murder episodes every week ad-free on Patreon.

It's everything we could do for you.

and you get a shout out yeah sign up right now patreon.com slash crime in sports do yourself a favor you deserve it yes you deserve it

i'm telling you that said i think it's time everybody to sit back what do you say here let's all clear the lungs let's all shout

shut up

and give me murder

Let's do this.

We are going far, far away this week.

How far?

Australia.

The other side of the planet.

That's exactly where we're going.

We're going to tomorrow.

We're not even in the same day.

Maybe.

So we are going to Aberdeen, New South Wales, Australia.

Aberdeen.

Aberdeen.

Not the one in Oregon.

No, no.

New South Wales, Australia.

It is in Eastern Australia and in Eastern New South Wales as well.

Okay.

Because that's where New South Wales is.

It's like southeastern Australia.

The region.

This is the Upper Huntershire region.

Sure.

The Hunter region in this area.

No, Huntershire, Shire, two different words.

Oh, they took that bullshit and they're like, listen, England.

We're not doing it.

We'll take your shires, but we're not going to make it shers and make them one word and do all that.

We got time down here.

We're fine.

We got all the time in the world here.

It's about three and a half hours to Sydney.

Yeah.

About 10 hours to our last Australian episode, which was

Goomborian, I believe.

Queensland, Australia, which was episode 512, more than 100 episodes ago.

This is 620.

That was five.

So it's been over a year since we've been in Australia.

Men at Work was the name of that one.

Yes, it was.

Athlete.

The postal code.

The postal code here is 2336.

Population, 2,051.

Okay.

It's a small little town.

A lot of mining and farming and that sort of thing.

Median household income here,

74,152

emu backs or whatever they are.

Koala bucks.

I don't know.

Something.

Koala dollars.

Rooskins, they call call them down there.

You owe me five rouxkins, they say, and you got to give it up.

Median home cost around here, about 550,000 rouxkins.

Yeah.

Seems like a lot.

Seems like a lot.

Don't know what that translates to.

I think they do a dollar, but it's like a different currency.

It's an Australian dollar, yeah, but it's a different currency.

It has different values all the time.

No, no, no.

It's a way different dollars.

Yeah.

Instead of a present, it just has a kangaroo head on there.

That's the

noble-looking roux head.

It's totally different.

And he's holding a can of fosters for some reason.

In a powdered wig.

Don't understand why.

History.

It's one of the first settlements in the Upper Hunter Valley.

It was named after the Earl of Aberdeen, who was a friend of an early settler named Potter McQueen.

He was a pal.

Must have been.

He was overseeing whoever they sent there.

Prior to this, prior to these people coming here, it was occupied by the Wannarua people.

Sure.

And so that's why that goes, yes, absolutely.

Named after Aberdeen, Scotland, also with that guy.

So historically a meat processing hub.

Gross.

Mining and meat processing goes on here.

This is like, this is their

industrial hub type of deal, but it's a small town.

It's weird.

The processing plant is not a slaughterhouse.

It's just where they take the stock.

Oh, it's both.

No, no, no, no.

It's everything we have.

It's an abattoir, which we'll talk about.

An abattoir, sorry.

An abattoir, which is a, well, I'll explain that when we get into the episode here.

But Aberdeen Meatworks was one of the largest employers, but it closed in 1999.

Known for beef, cattle, dairy farming, horse breeding, and there's, like I said, mining around here as well.

Famous people from here.

Roger Knox is from here.

Well, you don't know him, but you know his picture.

Look at that.

Holy.

He is known as

Black Elvis.

Oh, sir.

Although he looks more...

I don't know.

Is that like a puffy loud track suit?

What is that?

No, no, it looks like.

Is it velour?

It looks like more of a Conway Twitty jacket.

You know what I mean?

Like fringy stuff on there.

Less Elvis more Conway Twitty.

There's some fringe on that?

Oh, there's some fringe hanging off.

He's got it on his collar, got it on his sleeve dangling down.

I thought those were stripes.

And he's playing

a bass, which I didn't.

I never saw Elvis play a bass before, but that's fine.

I don't know if he really played a guitar.

Who the hell knows?

Yeah.

We have one review of this town.

All right.

And I'll give it to you.

This is Antimus with a review.

Four stars.

Small town with a lot of history is the title of it.

Aberdeen is a small town in the upper Hunter Valley and the gateway to the richest horse country in the world.

Richest.

In the world.

What does that mean?

Never mind Kentucky.

Most horses or most money?

I don't know.

He's not defining it.

I feel like there's spots in Florida, and I'm sure in like the Middle East, some Dubai lunatic has crazy horse.

I don't know.

Or do they mean like buttery meat?

It's really rich horse meat.

Surrounded by horse studs.

Oh, that's how every lady wants to be.

Surrounded by horse studs.

There is much to do and see, including visiting the vineyards of the Umper Hunter, the cheese factory, and Olive Grove to purchase some award-winning local produce.

Leisurely drives will take you to other historic towns and to the Barrington Tops.

Right.

A great and safe place to raise children with access to great primary and secondary schools.

That's great.

Oh, it's wonderful there.

Things to do here.

The Aberdeen Highland Games.

Right.

Because it's named after Scotland.

It's going to be some footy in rugby.

No, more shit than that.

This is, I guess they're saying this town is very

Scottish heritage-wise.

Right.

It's named Aberdeen.

I don't know, but they're really into that.

So the annual Highland Games takes place on the first weekend in July.

The games are a gathering of pipe bands.

Oh, boy.

Clans, not that kind.

Dancers, heavy event participants.

I don't know what that is.

Heavy ones.

Heavy.

A lot of fat big fat bad.

The fattest Australia has to offer.

As well as state and interstate tug-of-war teams to help celebrate the Scottish Celtic history.

You know, you want the fattest bastard you got on that game.

You got it.

Well, yeah, you get your fatties in there.

That helps.

You lean back.

Tie it on your lean.

Also here, they have the games or gathering of all that and the strongman challenge.

That's separate from the state and interstate tug-of-war teams.

I don't know why.

You can also go to the old butter factory and mill.

I don't even want to go to a butter factory and mill.

I kind of want to see it.

Just over the railway line here, the ruins of the old mill built in 1837.

So it's not a butter factory and mill.

It's working.

It used to work.

You can see a building that's half fallen apart now.

This used to do things.

And go, ooh, they used to make butter.

And then you go drive to the next thing.

That's the first thing.

They please show up here every day.

Oh, man.

And this was the spot once upon a time when the Aberdeen meat works closed as well.

They had their big reunions there, I guess.

And they have a big 30th anniversary, or no, it's a different, whatever, 25th anniversary last year, the Aberdeen Meatworks reunion.

Right.

All you have to do is text or phone Butch, and he'll hook you up.

I swear to God, that's what it says in the poster.

Text the guy.

Chinese meals available on the day.

Just text Butch.

It doesn't give his number.

Come to the meat packing.

Come to the meat cutters reunion and get Chinese food.

Butch will take care of everything.

Sounds good.

Let's talk about some murder because we got a lot to get into and I don't want to run out of time here.

Okay, here we go.

Let's start out hot.

What do you say?

March 1st, 2000.

Sure.

Jump right in here.

All right.

There's a guy named John Price

and he has not shown up for work that day

and has got some worried colleagues here.

So

the other thing, too, he had told his colleagues the day before that if I don't show up tomorrow, it means I've been murdered.

Which

I hope everybody assumes anytime I don't show up.

Yeah, he's probably dead, I assume.

He's been murdered.

Which, when someone tells you that, you probably think they're drama, though.

Oh, yeah, you've been murdered, I'm sure.

It's real drama.

Well, because we make this show anytime anything at all happens, that's what I assume.

Last night, two shotgun blasts.

I'm pretty sure there's a body over there.

There probably is one now.

It's rotting

yards from my home.

I did take a walk that way.

But, I mean, it probably happened inside, I would imagine.

we hope so they call the cops the people at work and say our guy didn't show up and he said if he didn't show up it means he's murdered so can you go check him out basically so there's a cop he goes knocks on the door and the cop said didn't get an answer saw some blood on the door jamb looked through a little gap into the lounge which was dark reasonably dark and saw what looked like a bunched up curtain hanging down so everything's fine so i mean okay dark curtains i don't know

i mean i don't see anything uh yeah you know there's no headless people or anything.

There's no blood for me to be an alarm.

Well, you didn't say anything about it.

He saw some blood on the door jam.

Some?

I mean, who doesn't have a little blood on their door jam is what I'm getting at, Jimmy.

I mean, my blood, you go into my house right now.

Everything's fine.

There's blood all over the place in the door jam.

It just keeps people away.

It keeps people away.

Someone's going to break in.

They're going to go, oh, God, someone already got here.

It's like you're already getting a ticket.

You don't get another ticket for the same thing.

They're like, he's already been murdered.

Never mind.

You turn your turn signal on when you get out from being a ticket.

That's it.

So they can't, they knock on the door.

Nobody answers.

So they decide to break into the house to make sure.

Now, this guy's been missing for two hours.

He's a grown up.

Break all his windows.

Let's fucking bust through this door.

Who's got the battering on?

He's probably got insurance.

So they go around back.

This cop, he goes around back and breaks in through the back door.

He says this, quote, as we went in, I saw straight ahead of me what I thought was a curtain.

There was something hanging blocking my entry into the hallway of the house.

I thought it looked like some type of blanket or some sort of covering that had been placed on the archway.

So I remember I used my left hand to push it aside and could immediately feel coldness coming on my left arm.

Uh-huh.

He looked down and saw that his arm is covered in blood.

Oh, boy.

So he thought that he hurt himself breaking the door.

He's like, oh, shit, I'm sorry.

I'm bleeding.

I'm bleeding.

But he didn't understand it.

He said, quote, I realized then it was a human pelt.

Oh, the skin?

That's what was hanging.

Not a curtain.

Oh, just skin.

Quote, it was the skin.

Just a person's pelt.

Just a,

yes, just an Edgar suit.

And he pushed it aside.

Yeah.

Get this out of here.

Move this curtain aside.

My arm.

It had a full skin just hanging from the top of doorframe.

Wow.

Looked past it and saw a torso on the ground without a head.

Uh-huh.

And without

skin.

He said, I think my first reaction was to turn around to Scotty and say, don't look, Scotty.

Of course, that's the worst thing you could say because the other guy's like, look at what?

Oh, God.

So they were like, holy shit, this is a headless person and a skin pelt.

This is horrifying.

The cop said, it was at that point I realized what had happened.

For something that I'd never seen before, I'd never experienced, I had an immediate idea of what's going on.

Well, yeah, if you see a skinless, headless man and here's some skin hanging, doesn't it?

Wait a minute.

He goes, I didn't make detective quite yet, but I think I put these two things together.

Somebody's skinning people around here.

Someone promote this man to detective.

He gets it.

He said, quote, there's a pot on the stove.

Ah, Jesus.

I think I may have said to Scotty, I'll give you one guess where the head is.

What do you think?

In the fridge?

He said, there's a pot on the stove.

Yeah.

Yeah.

God damn it.

That's hilarious.

So anyway, it's horrifying, obviously.

Yeah, it's silly.

So

the one cop said on the table, there was a couple of plates that had meals prepared, vegetables and meat cooked sitting there.

Oh, don't touch it.

Just a prepared meal on the table, all served and plated and everything.

Now, okay, let's go back in time and figure out how we got to this scene.

Okay, let's go back to a woman named Barbara Ruffin, Ruffin, R-U-R-O-U-G-H-A-N, Ruffin, Rogan, whatever.

Ruhan, whatever.

Barbara.

She married a guy named Jack.

He was Rogan, Rufin, whatever, Ruffin, whatever.

They had four sons together, Barbara and Jack.

Barbara, though, liked a co-worker of her husband

named Ken Knight.

And so they had an affair.

Apparently, this is in the 50s.

So this is a big deal.

An affair in this, it was a very small town in the 50s.

Under a thousand people here.

You know, it's a very small cheese-making fucking

butter-churning kind of joint.

You know what I mean?

So, this was a big scandal at the town that she was having an affair.

And then she got pregnant

with twins.

She's going to have six kids.

Six goddamn kids.

Wow.

And so that was not an intended result, obviously.

So the local people were so shitty about this whole thing that Barbara and Ken, the guy she was having an affair with, Ken Knight, they took off from Aberdeen.

They had to leave town.

Yeah.

And so Barbara leaves her four sons behind.

Two.

Two of them stayed with their father, her ex-her still husband, and the two youngest boys were shipped to Sydney to live with an aunt.

He could only afford two.

How that went.

Yeah, the younger ones are a pain in the ass.

Yeah, they are.

He's like, I got to work and stuff.

You can't be taking them to daycare.

Too much.

So Barbara gave birth to twin girls.

And these are Catherine Mary Knight and Joy Knight, is who she gives birth to October 24th, 1955.

So

when the kids were just four years old, Papa Jack died.

Oh, no.

The guy she was having an affair with.

So then

his two older sons moved.

So that's the guy who had

her original husband.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So then the older sons that were living with him came and moved in with Barbara and Katie.

And now we got two kids from him and the twins.

And the twins and living with Barbie and Kenny.

Yeah.

So

Catherine now

has, there's six kids in the house total at this point.

She got all of them.

And there's two adults, two, those two.

It's a mess, okay?

Now, Ken, not a great guy.

No.

Severe alcoholic.

Sure.

Kind of a real violent guy.

He would rape Barbara frequently, sometimes up to 10 times a day.

How do you?

I don't even understand how that's physically possible.

I guess you have to be a rapist.

You got to get off on that.

The only way you could do that is if you're a rapist.

Yeah, that's it.

There's a trick to why it works.

Just based on cool, collected sexuality.

Nobody's that horny.

No.

You know what I mean?

Especially as a guy.

Yeah.

Physically, you're like, I'm good.

Yeah, and the clock too is plenty.

The clock gets longer as they happen.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We might be able to go again in 10 minutes, but it's going to be 30 after the second one.

And then it's going to take a while.

to finish it financially.

Yeah.

It's going to be quite a long.

Yeah.

If you've already had four sexual acts that day, the fifth one's going to take a while to finish.

And there's going to be nothing there.

No, like we said.

There's going to be very little proof.

A ghost is going to fly out.

That's all you're going to hear.

She's going to accuse you of faking it.

No shit.

So

now Barbara,

she would tell her kids about this.

About the rapes?

About the abuse, the rapes, everything, particularly Catherine.

Catherine, one of her twins, is her sounding board.

Let me tell you about how your dad rapes me all the time.

What a book.

Which is just what a six-year-old wants to hear.

They don't want a diary on it.

Sesame Street or anything.

No, no, no.

You tell your child.

That's what you do.

Now, Barbara...

was described by everybody as, quote, a hard woman with little empathy for her children.

And she was also physically abusive toward her daughters.

And this is a nightmare to grow up in this household.

The family moves back to Aberdeen in 1959.

I guess the furor has died down of

this big affair.

So now there is one person who is very nice to Catherine and the kids, one particular uncle who's real nice, doesn't beat them, molest them, do anything like that.

That's Uncle Oscar, who is, I believe, Ken's brother, Ken Knight's brother.

He was a champion horseman, and he was very nice to her and kind to her and everything like that.

Also, Catherine was abused on and off by different family members and things like that.

So she had a terrible, awful childhood.

All these kids, it's a mess.

It is

crazy how prevalent that shit really is.

Oh, it's insane.

It's so much.

Insane.

Why is that a thing?

And people are very worried about strangers, as they should be, but most of these molestations come from family members.

Front of families.

Tons of families.

People that have access to the kids a lot is what it is.

Trusted access.

Yeah.

She tried to tell adults and nobody listened to her.

This is also back in the days where people went, oh, she's just making up stories.

Like, I don't know what it was back then.

People didn't want to believe this type of thing.

And they didn't want to shame the family.

Not in our family.

Now they want to believe it's all that happens.

And back then, they were like, it didn't happen at all.

It's all that happens.

And

it's that guy right there.

Just the closest guy to it.

The closest guy.

You just point at him and go, that's a dirt.

That's the one.

So in high school, Catherine's teachers and classmates started to see her problems here.

She's a loner and a bully.

Catherine, who, which makes sense, she's abused.

That's what happens.

They said she would pick on the smaller kids.

Wow, okay.

She assaulted at least one boy with a weapon

and once was injured by a teacher who had to act in self-defense because Catherine attacked him with a weapon.

Wow.

So that he had to knock her little ass out.

Imagine being allowed, fully allowed to, because you know it's the only time in your life you're ever going to be able to punch a 10-year-old girl.

Ever.

Never picked up a weapon and charged towards him.

He smiled.

He was like,

This is a fight I can win.

He's like, Finally.

This is a fight I can win.

I've wanted to punch one of these kids for so.

Imagine being a teacher.

Oh, my God.

Even no matter how good of a person you've had, at some point, a fantasy of just throttling one of these kids has come into your fucking head and you finally get to do it.

The biggest smile ever.

Unfortunately, it's a small, abused girl, but she's attacking you with a weapon.

The last thing Catherine saw that day was a smiling adult.

Yeah, oh, done.

So her teen years here,

she apparently one time had a boyfriend, Catherine, and she, the guy was trying to get her to have sex and do all sorts of stuff, and she didn't want to do it.

So she told her mom and was like, what do I do?

She went to her mom for advice.

Oh, mom, it's been raped.

What do you do when, well, so is Catherine, but she's like, what do you do when a guy is coming on to you and you don't really, you know, you don't really want it?

Mom said, put up with it and stop complaining.

Okay.

She's happy someone likes you.

Yeah.

Ungrateful bitches.

Just be happy someone wants to hump you.

What are you talking about?

That's not what you tell yourself.

No.

Hey, bad advice.

At one point, her and her twin sister got in a fight over a bicycle at school that escalated into a full-on fist fight with the sisters trying to kill each other.

Wow.

Just complete mayhem.

I mean, this is their household and it spills out in the public.

Yeah.

Only time we've seen that's in a Miller Lake commercial.

Yeah.

Twins finding.

And they're just, they're like pulling their hair at each other's hair and like a boob pops out.

Bring taste.

Yeah.

There's no fun involved, I don't think.

This is just terrible.

Not a tit popping out among anything.

And we don't want to see it anyway.

No, it's

children fighting over a bicycle.

So 1969, Uncle Oscar kills himself.

Oh, no.

And he was the good guy.

He was the good guy that she liked.

Catherine later would say that his ghost would continue to visit her all the time.

She's fucked up.

She's got some interesting things.

1970, she drops out of school.

She's functionally illiterate.

didn't really do much in school.

She can basically read and write on the most

remedial of levels.

I mean, just a real,

you know, she could, you know, she gets a dry cleaning ticket.

She gets that.

But outside of that,

that's the extent of her reading that she's going to do.

Oh,

B-L-U.

Pick up Tuesday.

Okay.

Excellent.

I can do it.

Number two.

She gets her dream job eventually.

After a few years, she gets out of her teen years.

And her dream job is at an abattoir.

What is that?

That, this is the definition, in livestock agriculture and the meat industry, a slaughterhouse, also called an abattoir, is a facility where livestock animals are slaughtered to provide food, slaughterhouses to provide the meat, and blah, blah, blah.

Then there's a packing facility also.

I felt like it was a familiar word.

It's because you just said it.

I said it about

12 minutes ago, I think is what that is.

Jesus Christ.

She's really good at cutting.

Yeah.

That's what she does.

She can cut things apart.

Oh, yeah.

She gets promoted to a boner, which is my, that's the job you want right there.

She's a boner,

which is actually a very skilled position.

They call it a boner.

They say boning is the job.

So I assume you're a boner if you're boning, right?

You have to have a boner to be boning, I think, correct?

It's pretty incredible.

Hopefully not 10 a day.

So it's a very skilled position, though.

So to have that, you really have to be good with the knives and

really be able to separate the flesh from the bone with really good accuracy because any wasted meat is costing the cup.

And what's up, yeah.

So yeah,

she loved it, by the way.

It was her favorite thing.

Everybody else just did their job and she was like.

Like she was making a fucking an art project or something, smiling like a teacher punching a 10-year-old.

Just a big shitty grin.

Smile.

Well, this is what Joy feels like.

Yeah.

They said she loved the blood and the gore, and she would brag about her knife skills.

And yeah, she even hung a set of butcher knives above her bed as her defense mechanism.

Like people keep a gun next to their bed.

She keeps all of her butcher knives.

Wow.

And if you fuck with her, she'll get up and start slashing at you like some kind of fucking action movie or something.

Stand on her surda and grab herself.

Grab her warmth.

It's wild.

Wow.

So, yeah, she did all of that,

which is a little bit weird.

She kept her knives like really pristine and perfect and they were like.

Sharp, clean.

Oh, like a chef does with knives.

Except with her, it was like a, she took special interest in it.

I really loved them.

She also creeped out people at work.

I'm already creeped out.

These are creepy people anyway.

These are slaughterhouse folks.

If you can creep out the creeps, you're creepy.

You know what I'm saying?

So they started noticing some weird shit.

Sometimes she'd be cutting meat and just staring at people.

They were like, I don't like that.

She would just make comments about, it'd be so easy to do this to a human what we're doing it's the same thing geez you could really carve somebody up and they were like this is this bitch is crazy she was staring at me like 10 minutes ago this is real weird uh and also she seemed to get a

little excitement out of anybody was afraid of her knives and her and her knives she would like that

she thought that was a good time

so 1974 she meets a man yeah a truck driver who worked at the abattoir with her uh-huh he's moving the parts she carves yeah david stanford kellett He's a heavy drinker, obviously.

She likes those guys.

She's, I mean, that's what she grew up with.

So

this guy's got his own problems.

His drinking is kind of a self-medication.

Oh.

He apparently witnessed his best friend get hit by a train.

Damn it.

A few years before that.

And he also was around a bus crash that killed six kids and where he rescued chilled bloody children from a bus crash while there was dead children laying around.

Oh lord.

You drink too, I think.

I'd be drinking a little bit to to forget that.

She said, I'd rather see Vietnam than see that.

That sounds horrifying.

There's just many dead kids in the world.

I don't want to see children die.

That's bad.

So he, by the way, she loved the fact that he was very quick to get into bar brawls.

That was her thing.

She found him sexy because he'd get up and just punch somebody in the face.

She would back him up, also.

She'd jump in and throw fists, too.

What is her deal?

She's nuts.

She's violent.

She loves it.

When they get in a fight together, that would make her real excited, too.

She'd be,

you'd be getting some that night.

So

they get married.

On the wedding day, they arrived at church on Catherine's motorcycle with him on the back because he's so drunk he can't stand up.

He can't ride.

Imagine the bride and groom pulling up on a motorcycle and the groom just falls off.

onto the crowd and then she gets off with her big dress tries to pull him up off the ground that is some kind of trash wedding right there.

Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about our safest sponsor, SimplySafe.

SimplySafe.com.

S-I-M-P-L-I safed.com.

That's right.

We want to talk to you about your home security for just a minute here.

I used to think home security was an alarm that goes off after, you know, there's a break-in and the guy would get scared and go, oh, God, there's people are going to hear this and they run away and maybe they get your neighbor's attention.

But that's pretty reactive.

I mean, things are already happening.

By that time, an intruder's in your home, it's too late.

You've heard small-town murder.

You're listening to it right now.

It's way too late if someone's in your home.

You're already dead.

So we can't have that.

That's why real security should stop a crime before it even starts.

That's why we trust SimplySafe.

Their system is designed to be proactive, not reactive, and really could have made half of our episodes not happen.

People at SimplySafe, it's amazing.

I love it.

My whole house, my studio, Jimmy's house studio, everything is covered by Simply Safe because it's the best.

It's simply the best.

That's all there is to it.

They use AI-powered smart cameras to identify threats lurking outside your home.

They immediately alert Simply Safe's professional monitoring agents.

Boom, there you go.

These agents intervene in real time before things even happen.

They can talk.

They have access to two-way audio to confront the person.

Hey, stupid, get out of the yard.

It's great.

It's amazing.

Trigger sirens, spotlights to scare them.

They request rapid police dispatch when needed, all helping to stop this intruder while while they're still outside your house.

That's security.

So, join the more than 4 million Americans who trust SimplySafe with their home security every day, including Jimmy and myself here.

And with a 60-day money-back guarantee and no long-term contracts, SimplySafe earns your business by keeping you safe and satisfied every single day.

Visit simplysafe.com/slash/small to claim 50% off a new system.

That's simply safe, S-I-M-P-L-I

small.

There's no safe like SimplySafe.

Now, back to the show.

Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show and tell you how to get your fashion a little bit better with Quince.

Quince.com, Q-U-I-N-C-E.com.

You know it.

Cooler temperatures are coming, everybody.

Summer is ending.

And Quince is where we're turning for our fall staples.

So they'll actually last some good stuff, some quality items.

From cashmere to denim to boots, the quality holds up and the price is going to blow you away because we love shopping on Quince because the prices are phenomenal.

Quince has the kind of fall staples you'll wear all the time, like super soft, 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters starting at just $60.

You can't beat that.

That's crazy.

Their denim is durable and fits right and their real leather jackets bring that clean classic edge without the elevated price tag.

I myself bought a leather jacket from there and I like it a lot and I wear it all the time.

Well, not in the summer, but when it gets cool again, gonna, I might look for another one.

Who knows?

With Quince, I can afford it, so it's good.

What makes Quince different?

They partner directly with ethical factories and skip those middlemen.

You don't get robbed by middlemen.

So, you get top-tier fabrics and

craftsmanship at half the price of similar brands.

I love that.

I got all sorts of stuff from Quince.

I got a cool shirt that I got a pair of pants that I wore to an event.

It's good stuff, and you can do it too.

Keep it classic and cool this fall with long-lasting staples from Quince.

Go to quince.com slash small town murder for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

That's q-u-i-n-ce-e dot com slash small town murder.

Free shipping and 365-day returns.

Quince.com slash small town murder.

Now back to the show.

And so during this,

he's so drunk, David, but Barbara, mom, pulls him aside.

And says, now you'd think Barbara's going to threaten him and say, Listen, you be good to my daughter, blah, blah, blah.

Oh, no.

Barbara's got a warning for him.

Quote, you better watch this one, or she'll fucking kill you.

Oh, my daughter's scary, is what she says.

It's a bad woman.

Yeah.

Stir her up the wrong way or do the wrong thing, and you're fucked.

She's married.

You just made a big mistake.

She said, don't ever think of playing up on her or she'll fucking kill you.

She's got something loose.

She's got a screw loose somewhere.

That's what she told him.

Hey, congratulations.

Hey.

But by the way, and then she throws rice in his face.

Holy shit.

That's what you want to hear.

Hope you fire yourself, you dummy.

And then just after she said that, it was,

oh, God.

So

wedding night.

Yeah.

Things get sideways quick.

Really?

That night?

Yes.

They only had sex three times, which made her extremely furious.

That night?

Wedding night, three times sex.

She's pissed at him

because he fell asleep after three times.

and she's like you fucking piece of shit no she tried to strangle him with an electrical cord wake up mother

I want four yeah that's he escaped yeah but was like whoa that is if she wants to fuck you give it you better do it so over the next few years she continues her violence obviously with him

at one point she's heavily pregnant And she burned all of David's clothes and hit him in the head with a frying pan because he came home less than an hour late from a darts competition that he was in.

I was winning.

What do you want?

I went to the finals.

What are you the hell?

I was doing great.

You said you'd be out by the semis.

Hang.

So he fled to a neighbor's house because he had a fractured skull.

Yeah.

She fractured.

Fucking cast iron frying pan, yeah.

He called the cops, but then Catherine talked him into dropping the charges.

Right.

Because I'll be nice now.

I swear, I'll be nice.

I'll be nice.

You know, it's all fine.

1976, a daughter is born, Melissa.

Well, you didn't mouth it.

No, you didn't.

No, that was the one she was already pregnant with.

Oh, right.

She was still pregnant at the time.

But she was beating him pregnant.

She was beating him pregnant.

She was like seven months pregnant while she was pregnant.

You don't listen very well.

I remember very pregnant.

Abattoir, pregnant.

I'm shocked by being beaten by a frying pan.

It's insane.

It's wild.

So David is pissed off now.

He leaves Catherine for another woman.

That's going to cause some strife.

He had to flee to Queensland.

Oh.

You can't stay in the state.

Province?

No, you got to get out of there, boy.

Jesus.

No, and Queensland, like we heard from our last episode, is like 10 hours away.

So

get some distance between us here.

Get some distance.

Several tanks of gas.

Catherine, no,

not going to take a shit.

She's got shit lying down.

No, no.

The day after she left, or he left, People saw Catherine violently shaking the newborn's cradle from side to side.

Oh, my God.

And so word would get back to David that he better get back to protect his daughter because Catherine's fucking shaking him.

That's what she was trying to get through here.

She's diagnosed with postpartum depression, obviously.

She's hospitalized.

But after she's released from the hospital, she does something way crazier.

She takes her baby, Melissa, and puts it on the railroad tracks while a train is coming.

Oh.

Luckily, some just random person walking by saw what was going on and ran down to the tracks and saved the baby.

Otherwise, she was just standing there with her arms crossed, letting the baby die.

This get back to him.

How's he going to feel this?

Lord.

Wow.

She was arrested for that and admitted to a psychiatric hospital.

In the hospital, she made threats.

When they're talking to her, like doing therapy, she's like, well, I'm going to kill him.

Yeah.

And this is how I'm going to do it.

And they're like, this isn't what this is for.

No, you are a cartoon villain.

This is crazy.

I will also kill his family.

And they're just writing this down.

You're the joker.

And she said, anyone else who wrongs me also, I'll kill them too.

I'll get them.

So August of 76th, let's release her from the hospital.

They couldn't take it.

She's too crazy for us.

Get her out on the street.

So she

goes right back to it.

Right fucking back to it.

Now, David had had to come back because his mother was like, Catherine was living with his mother with the baby, and she was like, she's like nuts now.

And the mother's taking care of her.

So David comes back.

So in the end, it worked.

He moved back in?

Yeah.

To tell, because the mom was like, you got to come back here.

You got to help me.

I got a baby and a crazy lady to take care of.

This is insane.

But I mean, in the end, all that shit worked.

Wow.

She got her way.

So they moved to Ipswich near Brisbane, where Catherine

found work at the Dinmore Meatworks.

Like Denty?

I was going to say, is that any relation to Denty?

I hope not.

So in 1980, they have another daughter.

It's all working.

Wow.

Natasha Marie.

And

she keeps getting crazy, making threats against David's family members, occasionally breaking everything he owns and burning things and stuff like that.

She would always remind him that, you know, I'll carve you up.

I'll make you kill you in your sleep.

So, you know, mind your P's and Q's here.

Most likely kill you in the morning.

Wow.

In 84, Catherine leaves David.

I don't know how you could get her to leave, but whatever he was doing worked and moved back to Aberdeen with the daughters, with the twins.

With her two daughters.

Sorry, that's not twins.

She had Melissa and Natasha.

So she goes to work back at the local abattoir, but then she injures her back.

Oh, no.

And she's on disability after that.

And now she has a lot of time to find more guys.

December 1987, she meets a miner named David Saunders.

He liked her because she's real into sex.

If you're super horny, she's the lady for you.

So this lasted a couple of years.

She got pregnant with another daughter,

but she absolutely overwhelms him with crazy.

She's got three kids.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Then to demonstrate exactly how she gets down and how this guy should probably watch this movie.

He fucking says another David here.

She takes his dingo puppy, which which I didn't know dingos were like a house pet.

I mean, I guess you can have a wolf puppy.

Yeah, I mean, I guess it says it like a coyote or something.

No, I've seen people that have had half wolf something.

Yeah, half bloodline.

Wolf bloodline, yeah, but not a full like

dingo's like a coyote.

Yeah, you can't have a coyote in your house.

That's what I mean.

It's like a coyote puppy, I thought, just from the dingo took your baby or ate your baby or whatever the fuck it is.

So you figure out a wild dog, right?

It's a wild dog.

Yeah, it's like a wild dog.

So it's an Australian coyote.

Apparently, you can have those in your house because he had an eight-week-old dingo puppy, and she slit its throat in front of him.

She

slit the throat of a dog.

Of a puppy, an eight-week-old puppy.

Who does he shit?

In front of David.

Yeah.

Wow.

And

she told him that's what happens when you fuck with me, basically.

Next one's you.

Wow.

He stayed around for another year.

They have a daughter and he's terrified.

Right.

But she keeps being crazy.

At one point, she hit him in the face with an iron.

She stabbed him in the the stomach with a pair of scissors.

And whenever she feels slighted, she just destroys everything he owns.

God dang.

So, like, he can't keep clothes for a long time.

She'll just burn them all.

Don't get nice ones.

So he flees.

Yeah.

Okay.

He takes off to Scone, which is his hometown.

And he went into hiding.

Yeah.

And just basically, he quit his job, everything.

He just went into like witness protection, which is nuts.

Hiding in Scone.

She called police and filed a false report at one point claiming David Sanders had been violent toward her, and she got a like a restraining order, an apprehended violence order against him, saying that she was the victim and all of that kind of thing.

Then she approached her nephew with an offer of $500 to steal and destroy David Sanders' uninsured car.

Now we'll have no car.

Oh, that's fucked up.

And that didn't work to her satisfaction.

So she asked the same nephew to throw acid in his face, which never came to fruition.

She is diabolical.

Oh, she's crazy.

I'll destroy the car that you dropped the insurance policy on.

Wow.

1995, she's got another new boyfriend here, John Charles Thomas Price.

Yeah.

45 years old at the time.

Everybody calls him Pricey.

Yeah.

He's a little pricey there.

He's a,

I'm going to read this from this one description.

He was a well-respected miner.

Well-respected one.

I never heard a well-respected, heard like a well-respected doctor, things like that.

Well-respected miner.

you could trust him with your ore he was real trustworthy yeah he wouldn't be in there just stealing no no no pocketing big pockets full of coal walking up there it goes in the mining cart going in the cart with the rest of it tell you that it'll come to the surface you can trust this guy he's got three kids yeah and pretty much known as a real nice guy even his divorce from his ex-wife ended very amicably everybody was fine so he's a nice guy he's just known as a real real good cat he works in the mines he makes decent money yeah He has a decent life for his kids and his, you know, his family here.

He's got a house at 84 Andrew Street and he loved the house and everything like that.

Now, when Catherine comes in, she thought that he was the guy and she somehow could he could handle her and she wasn't as crazy around him for some reason.

So he's he knew about her and knew she had a reputation as kind of a nut,

small town.

Sure.

But she could be charming and also she's super horny.

we're really dumb yeah we're so dumb we can hear this girl now listen yeah dude you should check this this woman out um

she might kill you yeah but she will fuck you how much all the time and hard as shit that it's worth it you go hmm tell a woman that yeah now the dick's good yeah but he might kill you he's going to stab you for sure yeah

you might get some very severely damaged people that are into that but guys will go, I think I can, I'll make it work.

I think I can make her happen.

That's for certain.

You're going to come twice a day.

Oh, yeah.

But he's going to kill you.

But you're eventually.

You're going to bleed once a day.

One of those days is you won't do it anymore.

Oh, shit.

So he's making good money.

She's on her best behavior.

He called this time in their relationship, quote, a bunch of roses.

Yeah.

Doing great.

She moved into his house, obviously with all their knives and things like that, but she didn't even keep him in the bedroom.

She kept him in the kitchen.

She put him in the right place.

Like, she's a new person.

Yeah.

1998, she wants to get married.

Sure.

Let's get married.

He doesn't want to get married.

No.

He keeps saying no, no, no.

Buy the cow.

So she gets some revenge on him.

Oh, boy.

Not her usual violent revenge, much more crafty and honestly just disturbing.

She would secretly videotape items that he brought home from work.

He would take outdated medical kits that they were going to throw out.

This is like working at McDonald's, and every 10 minutes they have to change the Big Macs, and as they throw them out, you eat one of them.

You're eating garbage.

It doesn't matter.

You're not costing the company any money.

But technically, it's against the rules.

That's what's happening here.

He's stealing shit that they throw out.

Okay.

Outdated medical kits that are technically outdated, so the company has to keep them in date.

They still work, but

for how much longer?

But for at home, it's fine.

Right.

The Beasting Swab is a little weaker now.

Yeah, it's just a date for, you know, whatever.

So

she would videotape all of this.

She created a video with commentary going on with it, presenting herself as just a concerned citizen reporting workplace theft and sent this to his employer.

Yeah.

And he was fired from his job he had for 17 years.

What the fuck?

Not a well-respected moment.

Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Now we can't pay the mortgage.

Thanks a lot.

He found another job, but he was real leery of Catherine after that.

Yeah.

I don't blame him.

17 years down the toilet.

17 years.

He's getting promotions and doing all that.

Now they're having increasingly frequent arguments.

It's a lot of it is Catherine.

She's very jealous.

Yeah.

And she also wants control of all the finances.

She wanted him to give her ownership of his house or at least a share in it.

Right.

At least, you know, half.

She said that she had some claim for the property.

I've lived here for a couple of years, so

I should have some legal squatter's rights.

You know, squatter's rights here.

When he said that his house house and his shit is staying in his name because it's going to go to his kids someday she didn't like that very much she said quote you'll never get me out of this house i'll do you in first jesus cat 1999 catherine slashes old pricey on the left part of his chest with a knife yeah leaving a pretty big scar about that uh she made very specific threats uh telling not only him multiple people anyone that would listen i'm gonna kill him she told the daughter natasha quote i told him if he took me back this time it was to the death.

Well, I guess that kind of sounds sweet.

Till death to us part is sweet.

To the death is

what you say before a commit.

Like, that's what you say to Jean-Claude Van Damme before he attacks a man in 1987 or something.

Yeah, this is blood sport.

Yeah, you don't say to, when there's somebody marrying people, the guy never stands up there and goes, they're to the death.

Do you take this woman to be your lawfully wedded wife to the death?

No, that sounds sounds really scary.

She told her brother, quote, I'm going to kill Pricey and I'm going to get away with it.

I'll get away with it because I'll make out like I'm mad.

I don't think you're making out like you're mad.

Oh, like she's crazy.

You are crazy.

She's fucking nuts.

Like the hatter, babe.

Early 2000, he is in constant fear.

He told his neighbor that he thought Catherine would eventually kill him.

I think so.

He told his friend Trevor that he was afraid Catherine would stab him in the back, literally and figuratively.

He told work colleagues about waking up to find Catherine standing at the foot of his bed with her hands behind her back and a belief that she was holding a knife.

Oh, my God.

Holy shit.

February 2000, she stabbed him in the chest during an argument.

Wasn't fatal, but, you know, it's a stab wound in the chest.

She was going for something.

So this is what made him kick her out of the house.

He was sitting in the emergency room.

Getting put back together, and he's like, this is crazy, right?

Counting stitches going, fuck this woman.

Oh, then on February 29th, 2000, it's leap year.

Yeah.

Leap day.

Yeah.

Leap day.

You got to take, you got to do something different.

You got a free day.

Do it.

So he went to the magistrates' court and got a restraining order against Catherine.

It's a good leap day.

Not bad at all.

He told about the previous stabbings,

you know, plural, and her threats to cut off his penis.

Gonna bob it.

And he's granted

the order, and she has to stay away from him and his children.

That afternoon is when he told his co-workers, if I don't show up for work tomorrow, it's because Catherine has killed me.

Or I'm just laying in a bed minus my penis.

Or we might be having sex for the 14th time in the last 24 hours.

Either way, I'm in a lot of trouble.

And his people at work were like, well, don't go home tonight then.

What are you doing?

He said, well, my kids will be there.

So he said, if I don't return home and she comes over to kill me, she might kill them.

So I got to give her a better target here.

How about get your kids out of the house?

What are you doing?

Go somewhere, hide.

Country.

God damn.

So that night,

after learning about the order, Catherine somehow became, everyone said, creepily calm.

Her normal thing would be to blow up.

And she was just very calm.

Yeah.

She went to her twin sister's house where she retrieved a video camera that she had been storing there for months.

Shwoof.

She told her sister, I want to document something.

but wouldn't say what.

She went back to her house where she filmed each of her children making emotional declarations of love.

And then she said one thing and said, I love all my children and

I hope to see them again,

which is a weird thing to say.

You should see them tomorrow.

Then she said that she's taking her daughter Natasha and some other family members out for a dinner tonight.

It's a special dinner, she said.

They said, why does it need to be special?

She said, because I want it to be special.

It's a special dinner.

So they said, during,

you know, dinner, she seemed fine.

Catherine was a little disconnected, kind of in her own head, you know, zoning out.

It was her and the kids.

Not raging, not threatening to stab anybody or anything.

But Natasha said it was just, it made her uncomfortable, the kid.

Natasha at one point said to her mother, I hope you're not going to kill Pricey and yourself.

Right.

And she

her response was just to drop her daughter, her two younger children off at a friend's house.

That was it.

Or at Natasha's house.

The two younger kids go with the daughter, Natasha.

So she

wouldn't give a clear explanation about why she was dropping the kids off or what she needed to do.

But then she went to the store and bought black lingerie.

Pricey that night hangs out with his neighbors.

Yeah.

Okay, which I thought he was scared for his kids because he's hanging out with his neighbors.

He's not going home, do he?

No, he goes home at 11 p.m.

Okay.

Which makes it's a weird thing, right?

Like,

I'm so scared for my kids.

I'll hang out and drink with my neighbors.

But that's what he was saying.

I'm just going to go hang out with them while they sleep because that's when they're most vulnerable?

I guess, yeah, go home at 11.

That's a good point.

So that's a very good point.

So she, all of the children were all having sleepovers at friends' houses.

So he's the only one home at this point.

So it's 84 Andrew Street, like we said.

It's empty.

It's him.

He goes to bed.

Catherine comes by sometime after 11,

lets herself into the house.

She still has the keys.

Yeah.

She doesn't live there.

No, she got kicked out, but there's a restraining order against her.

She hangs out for hours, watches TV.

She watched Star Trek.

Didn't even wake him up.

Watched Star Trek, took a shower, then changed into her new lingerie.

Oh, boy.

Okay.

Then climbed into bed with him and woke him up.

So they had sex because guys are idiots.

Because we're dumb.

We're dumb and we're like, oh, I guess we'll have sex.

I guess everything's fine now.

It's gone for me.

I may as well.

Everything's fine now.

Yeah.

Guys, try that.

Wife has a restraining order.

You break in the house in like a fucking weird speedo and then show up dry humping her in the middle of the night while she's sleeping.

You're going to end up in jail in a thong that night.

This guy bangs her.

Dressed in that fucking borat thing.

Oh, yeah, exactly.

Dressed like fucking Borat.

So

they have sex.

He falls asleep.

She goes and gets her knives.

Oh boy.

By the way, she had sharpened them

because there's a sharpener on the counter

that's been used recently.

She just did this.

So at 1 a.m., she begins stabbing him while he sleeps.

Torso at first.

He woke up immediately.

Blood spatter was everywhere.

Shows that he definitely was trying to defend himself, trying to escape from the bedroom, trying to get away from her.

She chased him through the house, stabbing him everywhere.

Oh, and he's getting weaker and weaker.

Oh, yeah, he managed to get to the front door and get it open.

That's why there was blood on the door jam and all that.

But then he ended up back in the house somehow.

So we don't know how.

If he fell in or she dragged him in, he collapsed in the hallway where he bled to death from his wounds.

She stabbed him at least 37 times.

Some of them were so deep they damaged vital organs, his aorta, both lungs, liver, stomach, pancreas, and left kidney.

She stabbed.

God dang it.

Butchered this guy.

One blow.

sliced most of the lower part of his kidney off.

Oh, wow.

Then she goes to work on him.

Okay.

Now he's dead.

Oh, Oh, yeah.

And what happens now was described by the Supreme Court judge later on as considerable, needing considerable expertise and an obviously steady hand to do.

She removed his skin

in one complete piece.

Try that with an orange.

It's impossible.

With anything.

With anything, try that with.

Oh,

you see people with an orange once in a while do it.

I go, mind blowing.

You know how you did that.

That's what's going on here.

She skinned a man like a fucking orange.

One piece.

Imagine how steady you'd have to be.

I mean, you'd have to go.

Yeah, that's crazy.

Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about Rocket Money.

RocketMoney.com.

You know it.

With prices going up on just about everything that exists lately, dealing with money is more stressful than ever.

So trying to manage subscriptions, track spending, and cut costs, that feels overwhelming.

It really does.

Luckily, Rocket Money can relieve some of that stress and help you feel confident in the financial decisions that you make.

Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings.

And it works too.

It does.

Trust me, because they found something I paid for for like five years every month.

And it wasn't a ton of money, but it was just enough where I didn't need that.

And they just took it from me every month.

And Rocket Money has saved me money.

So I love that so much.

Rocket Money shows all of your expenses in one place, including subscriptions you forgot about.

If you see a subscription you no longer want, Rocket Money will help you cancel it.

They can do that.

If you've got a goal that you'd like to save for, Rocket Money can analyze your accounts to find the best time each month to put extra money aside.

They'll even, this is the coolest part, Rocket Money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you.

How cool is that?

The app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save, then goes to work to get you better deals.

They'll even talk to customer service so you don't have to.

They're going to wait on hold for you, these people.

Wow.

This is awesome.

Get alerts if your bills increase in price, if there's unusual activities in your accounts.

Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features.

Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money.

Go to rocketmoney.com slash small town murder today.

That's rocketmoney.com slash small town murder.

Rocketmoney.com slash small town murder.

Now back to the show.

Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about our safest sponsor, SimplySafe.

Simplysafe.com, S-I-M-P-L-I safed.com.

That's right.

We want to talk to you about your home security for just a minute here.

Just

I used to think home security was an alarm that goes off after, you know, there's a break-in and the guy would get scared and go, oh, God, there's people are going to hear this and they run away and maybe they get your neighbor's attention.

But that's pretty reactive.

I mean, things are already happening.

By that time, an intruder's in your home, it's too late.

You've heard small-town murder.

You're listening to it right now.

It's way too late if someone's in your home.

You're already dead.

So we can't have that.

That's why real security should stop a crime before it even starts.

That's why we trust SimplySafe.

Their system is designed to be proactive, not reactive, and really could have made half of our episodes not happen if people had SimplySafe.

It's amazing.

I love it.

My whole house, my studio, Jimmy's house studio, everything is covered by Simply Safe because

it's the best.

It's simply the best.

That's all there is to it.

They use AI-powered smart cameras to identify threats lurking outside your home.

They immediately alert Simply Safe's professional monitoring agents.

Boom, there you go.

These agents intervene in real time.

time before things even happen.

They can talk.

They have access to two-way audio to confront the person.

Hey, stupid, get out of the yard.

It's great,

it's amazing.

Trigger sirens, spotlights to scare them.

They request rapid police dispatch when needed, all helping to stop this intruder while they're still outside your house.

That's security.

So, join the more than 4 million Americans who trust Simply Safe with their home security every day, including Jimmy and myself here.

And with a 60-day money-back guarantee and no long-term contracts, SimplySafe earns your business by keeping you safe and satisfied every single day.

Visit simplysafe.com slash small to claim 50% off a new system.

That's simply safe, S-I-M-P-L-ISafe.com slash small.

There's no safe like SimplySafe.

Now back to the show.

You're juggling a lot.

Full-time job, side hustle, maybe a family?

And now you're thinking about grad school?

That's not crazy.

That's ambitious.

At American Public University, we respect the hustle and we're built for it.

Our flexible online master's programs are made for real life because big dreams deserve a real path.

Learn more about APU's 40-plus career-relevant master's degrees and certificates at apu.apus.edu.

APU, built for the hustle.

Then, including the skin of his head, face, nose, everything.

Neck, torso, genitals, legs, whole body.

She had the whole sleeve.

Whole thing.

Just a suit.

What?

A John suit.

Yeah.

She left one small section untouched, and that is the skin of his upper left chest where she stabbed him and left a big scar.

She left that there.

Okay.

Oof.

So she skinned it.

She skinned him.

I'm sorry.

Then she hung his skin on a meat hook

that she had installed that night while he was sleeping

to go between the rooms.

Like when the guy walked in.

Yeah, he saw the.

That's what he saw because she hung it up from a meat hook.

Imagine what that looks like in a house.

No.

That's fucking crazy.

Okay.

There's more.

We'll find out about that in a second.

So Pricey doesn't show up for work.

They call the cops.

They arrive and we told you what happened.

She did that in one night.

One night.

It's so fast.

She knows what she's doing.

It's crazy.

So when they went to go to his house, the cops said, I knew Mr.

Price.

I knew that he was a hardworking and reliable man.

So it was unusual for him to not turn up to work.

When the cops know you don't no call, no show.

That's a small town.

Pricey never no calls, no shows.

So, yeah, like we said, he went in.

He saw, saw, he had a, oh, God, I got blood on my arm.

What's that about?

It's cold.

It's gross.

They find the sharpening stone on the kitchen counter, and the cops find a pool of blood measuring one by two meters, deep enough that it fully hadn't congealed even hours later.

It's a lot of blood.

A whole man's worth of blood.

The forensic investigator arrives.

And he was told, we got a real, this is horrifying, but he said he didn't expect this.

He said, we came in through the laundry and the back of the premises, and there was an aroma.

It was quite a macabre thing.

It was a sweet odor, a nice odor, as if mom's cooking his stew.

Okay.

They said the first thing they found was the skin hanging from the meat hook.

Right.

He said, walk inside, and one of the first things you see is Mr.

Price's skin or pelt hanging from the door from a meat hook, hanging from the door from a meat hook.

They said

they searched through the pelt for his genitals.

It was detailed.

They also said the victim had first been attacked whilst lying in bed, then tried to run for his life.

But as you go out toward the lounge room, the bloodstain is getting heavier and heavier, big swipes on the wall where he's blood-soaked himself and sliding against the wall.

He's actually opened the front door and there's blood spatter on the screen door, so he's nearly made it out.

Not that it would have helped him, he would have died certainly, but you just don't, but you just see the enormity of where it starts in the bedroom, and it just progressively gets worse and worse until you get to the point where he's died.

My Christ.

Then they said, we examined the body.

You could see the body has been there in its entirety.

There was a big stain on the floor where the head would have been.

What a big brown spot.

It's been skinned first.

She skinned the head first, then cut it off.

You can see where she's

walking in, carrying it to the kitchen.

There's a drip, drip, drip, drip of blood all the way leading to the cooktop.

Oh, Lord.

She had cut, I think it's the gluteus maximus, they called it, off his backside, and it's a big muscle.

She cut it into five different steaks, and she cooked them.

His ass.

Yeah, baked them in the oven.

Roasted them.

Two of them were on one plate, two on another plate, and a fifth one was out for the dog, I believe, but it wasn't touched.

Oh, my word.

They said that those meals were like a trophy.

They had names of each person who was supposed to get them.

She had name cards, like a very formal dinner seating.

She was going to feed him to people.

The names displayed

on the meals were two of his children.

She was going to feed him to his children.

Feed his ass to his kids.

Oh, God.

That is fucked up.

They didn't call the cops.

That was the plan.

Yeah.

That's what she was going to do.

She'd have to clean all that up.

Yeah.

Apparently she cut him with such surgical precision, she removed his head at the C3, C4 junction with a clean cut.

Oh, my.

Perfectly.

She took his head to the kitchen, along along with portions of his buttocks, obviously, and started to cook.

She also prepared vegetables, potato, pumpkin, cabbage, and zucchini.

I mean, what goes with that?

You know, so you got to,

I hear pumpkin always.

That's what they say.

So she put his head in a large pot with vegetables and set it to boil.

Yeah.

Just did it.

The pieces she'd cut from his buttocks went into the oven, like we said.

Wow, she even seasoned them and everything.

She cooked them like steaks.

She didn't just throw them in there.

Arranged them on the plate, plated them nicely, did the name cards, did all of that.

By the way, when the cops got there,

it was still boiling on the stove.

It was on.

His head was still boiling in the pot.

When they opened it up, it wasn't just a head in the pot.

It was a boiling head in the pot.

Oh, my God.

It's

coming off the bone.

So where the hell is she?

Where'd she go?

So

as they moved down the hallway,

one of the cops said, we heard what appeared to be someone snoring coming from one of the bedrooms.

So we knew that there was someone alive in the house.

In the bedroom, they found her on the bed unconscious.

She passed out.

They said, I tried to wake her.

She's obviously drugged on something and couldn't wake her properly.

She's very groggy and wasn't responding, so we carried her outside.

She was unresponsive, though.

They said, I wasn't sure whether she tried to kill herself with sleeping pills or whatever, but she certainly wasn't injured in any other way.

Turns out she took an overdose of prescription medications and was found unconscious there.

Didn't take enough to kill herself, though.

The blood test shows levels consistent with

therapeutic doses.

Sleeping time.

She took enough to feel good and pass out and didn't expect anybody to come home.

She was so probably overwhelmed with adrenaline after that, she couldn't come down.

It's like after a show, it's hard to sleep.

Can't imagine after

butchering and fucking cooking a man.

Yeah, just got to get up at six for a flight.

So she already told her brother she'd get away with it.

So, I mean, that's what's going on.

Oh, my God.

They bring her in.

Once she's medically cleared, they bring her in to arraign her.

No, to interview her.

Oh.

They want to talk to her.

We're not even charging her yet.

Well, we don't know for sure.

She's definitely in the handcuffed question.

Yeah.

They want her to admit to it, obviously.

It'd be easier.

So they said she was yelling and screaming and saying that she'd been abused by men and suffering domestic violence throughout her life.

They said, but she never admitted any remorse for killing John.

She was just saying, I did it because I've been abused and he's abusive and everybody's abusive.

They said, she kept saying she doesn't remember anything about the night.

They asked her about her death and she said, I don't know anything about it, about John Price's death.

Later on, she said, the last thing I remember, I was going out for tea with my daughter and kids coming home.

And then she also said, though, Catherine, this is the detective, said, Catherine presented me during the interview with this, with this scenario that I needed to go and explore that perhaps she believes or is claiming that she committed this act because of the severe ongoing domestic violence she occurred during her life.

Then he also said she has a rat cunning that

she won't then go on and say, yes, this is why I did it.

She's never given the family peace so you know about why she did it.

She's never been honest about it.

She blamed him by saying that he had been violent toward her.

But she won't admit doing it.

She just admits saying, I don't remember what happened that way.

I don't remember it.

And then here's a bunch of excuses and bad things that happened.

Yeah, just in case you decide I did it.

But they said

we know that she left the crime scene at least once, and that was to take her car back to her home on McCoy Street and park it well up into the backyard.

It was also the fact that Price's bank account had some money taken out of it.

I think at about 12.15 a.m., two $500 lots, we believe Catherine did it in ATM.

She got there.

watched some Star Trek, got his card, went and got some money, changed, took a shower, did all that shit.

Then they said in the video, they said back at the daughter's house, she set up a video camera.

They said she loved that video camera and she started recording things.

It was quite bizarre, sort of like a last will

of what she was going to portray, wanting to portray.

They said she's been planning this for days.

She watched a video, drives to his home, wakes him up, watches a bit of Star Trek, has sex, and then she strikes.

Wow.

One guy said here, Catherine was,

the detective said, Catherine was workshopping the crime in her own own mind and just dropping hints to family here and there.

There was information from her brother that she did say those particular words, that she would kill Pricey and she'd get away with it because they think she was mad.

Yeah.

Which, I mean, she is nuts.

She's definitely mad.

They said there was other comments.

The, you know, if he takes me back, it's to the death.

Yeah.

Then the physical evidence.

The slinky black negligee

the cop said was found to have sperm on it.

Okay.

That's not good.

It was also found in the bathroom where they believe she showered, which she must have after she butchered him out.

She cleaned herself and changed clothes.

She could remember having sex with him in vivid detail, but couldn't recall taking medication or anything like that.

She says she has no memory of any of the murder.

So did the negligent have blood on it?

Did she do it in that?

No, I don't think so.

Because she went out and

changed.

Yeah, probably don't want to get that on my name.

She just did it in the middle.

Black Negative.

Maybe because it's easier to fucking clean that way.

Yeah.

One of the most because that's what a lot of mob guys would do.

Yeah.

You're naked and you get get in the tub and start cutting it off yeah they want to get on your suit so uh the atm records like we said uh 230 and 235 she used his bank card to withdraw a thousand dollars she had uh replaced the card in his wallet as well in the morning oh yeah um she used his car to drive to the atm as footage we'll find she drove back to the house

Wow

so they also find a collection of violent horror films that she has, which a lot of people have.

One, Resurrection,

it was called, depicted scenes that are exactly like what she did, skinning the decapitation and hanging skin on meat hooks.

They said, oh my God, did she use that as like, that's what that looks, that's a smart move.

Yeah.

I like that.

That's a good idea.

They also uncovered her extensive history of threats against him and everything like that.

So this town goes bat shit over this.

Wow.

This is 2,000 people.

If you fuck somebody who's not your husband, they all know about it.

Imagine if you kill a guy and skin him.

Take all of his skin in one pole.

Wow, one pull and make fucking dinner out of it.

Wow.

So people are freaked out.

Tons of tourists start coming to the town, but just to gawk.

Yeah.

Just to fucking be like, oh, this is the weird little town where something happened.

It was one of those things.

Seasoned his ass here.

Ooh, man.

So they go to court.

And the judge later says, at no time, either as a barrister or as a judge, did I ever strike anything of the horrific nature of Catherine Mary Knight's case?

She pleads not guilty,

obviously.

The judge said she was quite small, unimpressive.

In a crowd, you would certainly never notice her.

She didn't look like a monster is what he's trying to say here.

So then out of nowhere, right before they're about to go forward with the trial, she just changes her mind and says, I'm pleading guilty.

Really?

No explanation, no nothing.

The judge said, I was somewhat nervous about this because I was concerned that if I took a guilty plea and sentenced her, then she would appeal to the Court of Criminal Appeal and say that she was insane at the time she made the guilty plea.

So in order to make sure that it is a plea that will hold up, he sends her for a psychiatric evaluation.

He said, I decided to get a court expert to examine her, and the psychiatrist came to exactly the same conclusion as the other psychiatrist that had seen her, namely that she wasn't insane.

Oh, how do they say that?

They said, quote, she was quite sane, but she was a bad woman.

Okay.

Yeah, that's a good way to put it here.

They also, the court heard three psychiatrists all diagnosed her with a personality disorder, which is not a psychiatric illness.

No.

She's just a dick.

She's an angry bitch.

That's it.

It's actually just a disorder the way you

relate to other people.

That's all it is.

If she doesn't get her own way, if you crossed her, or if she imagined that you had done something or said something about her, she would get payback.

They said that throughout the whole evidence, it didn't matter what a witness said, she wouldn't look at the witness.

It didn't matter what photograph or or video, she wouldn't look at it.

She sat looking straight ahead, absolutely impassive.

They said there was never a sign on her face of any reaction to any evidence.

One time, they said there was one time when they were describing the crime scene, or it might have been the crime scene tape of it, like the videotape.

She started rocking violently backwards and forwards and screaming and then threw herself on the floor and did the same.

They said when she, what she wanted, the judge said when she wanted an adjournment, she manipulated her behavior.

So that's what she got.

After she resumed the same manner as she'd had before,

he said, I don't think she'd switched off.

So the judge is going to say to her, you're taking a guilty plea, fine.

Woof.

He says that she has.

Wow, she has not expressed any contrition or remorse.

And if released, she poses a serious threat to the security of society.

He talks about the crime in detail and what she did and said that they had pleasurable sexual intercourse before Mr.

Price retired for the night.

Not only did she plan the murder, but she also enjoyed the horrific acts which followed in its wake as part of a ritual of death and defilement.

Her evil actions were playing out her resentments arising out of her rejection by Mr.

Price, her impending expulsion from his home, and her refusal to share with her his assets, particularly his home, which he wanted to retain for his children.

At no time did the prisoner express any regret for what she has done or any remorse for having done it her attitude is that uh is that regard is consistent with her general approach to the many acts of violence which she has engaged in against her various partners namely they deserved it

he said he talked about her killing a puppy right

oh man uh he said the prisoner's history of violence together with her flawed personality caused me to conclude that she is without a doubt a very dangerous person and likely, if released into the community, to commit further acts of serious violence, including murder against those who cross her, particularly males.

Catherine Mary Knight, you have pleaded guilty and been convicted of the murder of John Charles Price.

In respect of your crime, I sentence you to you, ma'am,

may fuck off life in prison without parole.

Wow.

She is,

yeah, it was the

maximum penalty.

And the crowd went crazy, and everybody was applauding.

The judge said, to sentence any person to life imprisonment is a big thing.

To sentence a woman to life imprisonment for me was an even bigger thing.

So this was as bad a case as you got.

So she had to go to jail for the term of her life.

By the way, she's a real trailblazer.

She's the first woman in Australian history to be sentenced to life without.

And the first person on Australia

is over here.

Yeah, to get the skin off in one go.

I've never heard of that before.

Never.

Like I said, do it with an orange, and I'm impressed.

So she earned a couple of nicknames as well.

What is that?

Australia's Hannibal Lecter.

Uh-huh.

And Lady Leatherface, which is the one I like a lot.

That's a good one.

Obliteration and everything.

Lady Leatherface.

That's the name of this fucking episode right there.

That is Australian Hannibal's no good.

That's kind of boring.

Yeah.

Lady Leatherface.

Now we're talking.

I can see that.

We don't even know she ate anything.

No.

Yeah, maybe.

Who knows?

Who knows?

So, June 2006, she appeals and they said, get the, are you fucking kidding me?

The justice who wrote the judgment said, this was an appalling crime, almost beyond contemplation in a civilized society.

If there was a deeper hole to put you in, we'd put you in one.

In prison, she is not allowed to share a cell with anyone.

She does just have to dangerous.

Yeah.

They don't think she's going to kill somebody and then she's nuts.

Catch anything with a sharp edge, and you're in so much trouble.

And if you're rooming with somebody in a bunk, something's going to piss you off.

Absolutely.

They clean the toilet properly, something.

Wow.

She now says she's a Christian, Christian, though.

I don't care.

All fixed.

I don't care.

All fixed now.

Found Jesus, so it's all good.

Oh, boy.

This is the one lady, or even Jesus in whatever form

would be like, I don't know, lady.

I don't quite believe you.

This is a little.

You know what?

No, not you.

I can't forgive you.

I mean, I'll save and stuff, but it's kind of more of a slogan than a, you know what I mean?

When I say I forgive, I mean like, you know, general.

Cheat on your taxes.

Wow.

You know, that

guy stole some stuff from me.

I forgive him.

You know, this is, you're a sick bitch.

That's all I'm going to say.

Accidentally took some shit and didn't pay for it.

It got hidden under the bottom of the cart.

Whatever.

That's in the Bible, right?

You skip it.

Don't be a sick bitch.

I think it's in there somewhere.

You sick bitch.

Speaking of weird and sick and odd, the house that all of this took place in, by the way, I'd like to show it to you here.

Nice house, just a little.

Wow, it's very nice.

Nice house, brick house, nice raised porch.

Very nice.

It is currently for sale.

Hey.

It is sold a couple of times since then, but it's currently for sale, 84 St.

Andrew Street in Aberdeen.

It is a

691 meters squared, whatever the fuck that means.

I have no idea what the square is.

It's 600 square feet.

I got to get a calculator to figure out that, but it seems like a decent-sized house.

By the way, here are some of the rooms that shit took place in.

Oh!

Oh, yeah.

Want to see the kitchen?

There it is.

It exists online.

Oh, no.

Is that remodeled or is that the one?

Oh, man.

Who knows?

I I don't know.

I see like stone countertops.

That looks 2,000.

It feels like somebody had to remodel it.

You got to take the blood out.

350,000 rubacks.

Whatever that is.

Get in there.

I don't know.

Whatever the Australian

for that.

Should we get it?

I don't know.

That might be either $3 million or

$72,000.

I'm not sure which one it is.

And can you buy a house in Australia

if you're not a citizen?

I'm not sure.

I don't know.

Why not?

I want that.

My money's good.

We'll give it to one of our listeners and have them buy it for us.

Who cares?

We'll figure it out.

Unbelievable.

There you go, everybody.

Aberdeen, Australia.

Hope you enjoyed that.

That is, I said, that's 15 pounds of murder in a two-pound bag.

Never mind 10.

Yeah.

That's a lot of murder in a two-pound bag.

So, quickly before we have to

end here, shut up and givememurder.com is where you go for the tickets to all the shows, merchandise, tickets in Philly, tickets in D.C., tickets in Seattle.

Everything else is sold out.

So check that out.

Definitely get on whatever app you're listening on.

Give us five stars.

That helps a shitload.

Follow on social media at small town murder on Instagram, at small townpod on Facebook, patreon.com

slash crime and sports.

Anybody $5 a month or above.

Tons of back episodes.

hundreds of bonus stuff you've never heard before immediately upon subscription.

New ones every other week this week for crime and sports, which you'll get, of course.

Amusement park disasters again coming at you.

And then the prisoner dating game is back, everybody.

In addition to that, you get all of our shows, Crime and Sports, Your Stupid Opinions, both Small Town Murders, all ad-free on Patreon.

And you get a shout out at the end of the show.

You can't beat it.

It's the best damn deal going in podcasting, patreon.com/slash crime and sports.

You deserve it.

You're good enough.

I do.

You're good enough, damn it.

So get in there and do that and keep coming back and hanging out with us.

And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

Bye.