#581 - Sexy Sunday School Teacher Slaughter - Enid, Oklahoma

If you thought goldenly breaded McDonald's chicken couldn't get more golden, think colder!

Because new sweet and smoky special edition gold sauce is here, made for your chicken favorites.

I participate in McDonald's for a limited time.

High interest debt is one of the toughest opponents you'll face.

Unless you power up with a SoFi personal loan.

A SoFi personal loan could repackage your bad debt into one low-fixed rate monthly payment.

It's even got super speed, since you could get the funds as soon as the same day you sign.

Visit sofi.com slash power to learn more.

That's SOFI.com slash P-O-W-E-R.

Loans originated by SoFi Bank NA, member FEIC.

Terms and conditions apply.

NMLS 696891.

This week, in Enid, Oklahoma, the horribly cruel murder of a well-liked church deacon seems like an awful random attack, but there's actually a tangled web of plot that makes the whole thing so much more dastardly.

Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

Yay!

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy.

Yay indeed.

My name is James Petrigallo.

I'm here with my co-host.

I'm Jimmy Wistman.

Thank you so much for joining us today on another wild, crazy, incredible episode of Small Town Murder.

It's quite the adventure today, man.

It is stuff going everywhere.

A wild time.

Can't wait to get into this.

Before we do, very, very quickly, definitely make sure to head over to shutupandgivemeurder.com.

Get your tickets.

First of all, tickets for live shows.

Virtual live show is the next one up.

That is April the 19th.

It's our 420 virtual live show, which means costumes, which means I have crazy bongs to force Jimmy to smoke out of at different intervals in the show.

Just like a regular live show, except you can be anywhere in the world with internet and you can watch it and buy it or do whatever you want with it for two weeks after the show, too.

Yeah.

Very excited.

Get in there and do that.

And also get your tickets for regular live shows.

May, we are in St.

Louis and Chicago.

St.

Louis has been sold out.

Chicago, still some tickets there at the Riviera, a beautiful venue.

Get your tickets for the rest of the year, too, because they're selling fast.

I think San Diego, Madison, Portland, a lot of sellouts so far, Grand Rapids.

So get in there if you'd like to go to a show definitely this year.

Shut up and give me murder.com.

Listen to our other two shows as well, Crime in Sports, which we have

looking like it's going to be about a nine or ten part Evil Knivil series going on right now.

So you don't have to like sports.

You just have to like crazy people to enjoy that.

And also listen to your stupid opinions, where we talk about some of the craziest reviews of anything and everything on earth.

So it's a lot of fun.

Then you should get Patreon,

slash crime in sports.

Tell you right now, the best bargain in podcasting, anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get a whole lot.

First of all, soon as you subscribe, you're going to get hundreds and hundreds of back episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard before immediately upon subscription.

Then you get new ones every other week.

One crime in sports, one small town murder.

And how much of that do they get, Jimmy?

Every drop, every bit, all of it.

Drop of it.

That's right.

This week for Crime and Sports, we're going to talk about some cheating scandals, including maybe the craziest thing I've ever heard, the Spanish Paralympic team, where no one was actually disabled in any way, shape, or form.

We'll talk about all of that.

Then for small town murder, honestly, one of the craziest stories I've ever heard in my life.

Documentary on Netflix called American Nightmare.

And I read the whole, I read a book about it too, like a 12-hour audio book.

It's a lot.

And it is kind of, you'd think it's a Sherry Papini situation.

It's a staged kidnapping and people are lying, but then maybe not, but then maybe.

It's crazy.

Oh my God, I can't wait to tell the story.

It's going to be so much fun.

Patreon.com/slash crimeinsports.

So check all that out and more over there.

And you get a shout-out at the end of the show as well.

That said, disclaimer time.

Here we go.

Yes, Jimmy, you'll mispronounce your name on that shout-out.

Real good.

Don't you worry about that.

Disclaimer, it's a comedy show.

We are comedians and we will make jokes, but

that doesn't mean that the story isn't 1,000% completely real in every detail.

Nothing is exaggerated for comedic effect or anything stupid like that.

No, no, no.

We stay on it.

And what we do is here, there's a lot of jokes to make.

That's the thing.

Here's what we don't do, though.

We don't make jokes about the family or the victim or the victim's family.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because we're assholes,

but we're not scumbags.

See how that works there?

Yeah, there's plenty to make fun of.

The fact that someone going, I think I can get away with this with zero murder experience, that's a crazy thought right there.

And plenty to make fun of.

We'll talk about all that and more.

If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, we might not be the show for you, but we might be.

That's the other thing.

You never know.

Give it a try.

Give it a try and no complaining later because you've been warned.

That said, I think it's time, everybody.

Let's go.

Let's all sit back.

Let's clear the lungs here.

Arms to the sky.

And let's all shout.

Shut up

and give me murder.

Let's do this, everybody.

Okay.

Let's go on a trip, shall we?

We're going to Oklahoma here.

Middle of the country madness, baby.

We are going to Enid, Oklahoma.

And we will.

We'll explain a little bit more about the town stuff after we get done with the town stuff.

But for now, we'll start off Enid, Oklahoma, northwestern Oklahoma.

It's about an hour and a half to downtown Oklahoma City from Enid.

About an hour 45 to Tulsa.

So right between a rock and a hard place there, right between the two.

Yeah, Tulsa has, I believe, the most terrifying first 48 episodes ever.

Every one of them is terrifying.

It's about an hour and 20 minutes also to sealing Oklahoma, which was our last Oklahoma episode, episode 535, the Murder Bones Mystery.

That was a wild episode.

This is in Garfield County, area code 580.

The motto for Enid, they have several.

Oh?

Okay, we have the wheat capital of the United States,

which, I mean,

sure, I'll buy that.

You seem like there's probably a lot growing there.

The queen wheat city of Oklahoma.

They're really leaning on the wheat.

I mean, if you're the capital of the United States, you're obviously the queen wheat city of your state.

And then, I don't even know what this is, the Purple Martin capital of Oklahoma.

What's the Purple Martin?

Is that a euphemism for a hard on?

What are we talking about?

I don't know what that is exactly.

I'm not sure.

So a little bit of history quickly here.

Prior to the land run of 1893, the land where Enid is was part of O County in the Cherokee outlet and was occupied by the Cherokee people following the Trail of Tears.

This is where

they were sent here.

It was then known as Skeleton.

Okay, this place.

I'm sure that's a reason.

And then in 1889, some guy from the railroad said this, that's a terrible.

What is it called?

Skeleton?

That's crazy.

So he renamed the station, the railroad station, Enid, after a character in Alfred Lord Tennyson's Idols of the King.

As we, you know, we all know that, obviously.

Very well aware.

Though I don't know.

So

that is how it happened.

But there's actually a different story of how the town got his name that's more fun, actually, than that and dumber.

One is about like some literary thing, a classic, and then this is this.

According to this tale, in the days following the land run,

some settlers decided to set up chuck wagons and cook for people that were coming by.

Little roadside, first roadside diners type of thing.

And they would hire, they hung a sign that said,

Yeah, first food trucks.

They hung a sign that said dine.

I was just going to say this is backwards.

Yes.

What?

And they said some of the people turned the sign backwards and then it read Enid, and that's the name stuck.

But that's not true.

But they find that to be a better origin story than a literary reference.

They're like, I like that better.

Okay.

Review books and stuff.

Never mind that.

Here is five reviews of this town since we've never been here.

We don't know anything about it.

Here's five stars.

Like I have said before,

where?

Okay.

This is, you're in public now.

Like I've like I've told my family for years.

Great.

A lot of hillbillies like to start sentences, like I say, or like I said, like my grandmother before.

It's like, baby, you didn't say this yet.

This is the first time.

But she has Alzheimer's, though.

Your grandmother might have actually thought she did say it, or she might have said it in 1968 and think that was five minutes ago.

We don't know.

Four or five minutes ago, she thought it and didn't say it out.

That's the other thing.

Yeah, yeah.

She's

cut her some slack, Jimmy.

Like I have said before, this experience is amazing, but it is kind of off, kind of off small.

So I think they mean of small.

It's kind of a small town.

Here's four stars.

Enid is very boring, but I like that.

Okay.

I like the boring.

I've lived here for about three years,

and it's fine for me.

I have no problem with Enid being boring, unlike all my friends.

Nothing bad here happens.

A low crime rate here in Enid.

We'll be the judge of that.

We have stats.

There only was one big issue that has happened in Enid, but again, nothing happened.

The issue was threats made, the Enid High School, which I go to, and nothing happened.

When this threat was made, the police were on it.

They covered the whole school in secret, of course, but you could tell.

I got to admit, nothing happens at all, not even crime, so it's a little boring.

All right.

Here's one star.

Sure would appreciate my neighbor's head getting sawed off just for some time.

Just give me some action.

Yeah.

Give me some goddamn action in this joint.

Like a

four, like a drug gang, maybe.

A missing kid for a couple hours.

Anything.

Big like a North Hollywood bank robbery type of deal.

One of those, you know?

Give me something like that.

If they find the kid tomorrow, I'm fine with it.

That's okay.

One star.

The city of Enid as a whole is one of the most boring cities I've ever lived in.

This person doesn't like the boring, apparently.

It's like the city doesn't want to build anything that will attract out-of-town tourists.

Yeah, yeah, there is the stride center.

Oh, yay, you all won't pay for good entertainment.

I guess they have a venue where people can come, but

they don't draw there, apparently.

Yeah, we don't get suggested, do you guys want to go to Enid on your next tour ever?

That never comes up.

City of Enid officials don't do what the residents that elect them claim

that elect them to do.

They do what they want to do and at their own pace.

If you want to open a business, the paperwork will be held back and you won't be able to.

Okay, I don't even know what the hell you're talking about.

That's crazy.

So, yeah, you want boring, like retirement style boring.

Come to Enid.

Actually, you want to be able to enjoy your days off with the family and drive downtown plus hours.

Then, well, you you make the decision.

I don't know what you're talking about.

And then finally, one star, maybe the greatest review of anything I've ever heard.

This is for a whole town, mind you.

There is one taxi that is very sleazy looking.

One star, whole town.

One shitty taxi, the whole town's ruined.

People of this town, 52,129.

So it's a decent sized place.

It's a small town, but it's a big, small city, you know?

The little, a few more males than females, which is odd.

Maybe that has to do with farming and oil stuff, possibly.

This is also a Tornado Alley fucking place.

I never heard of it for 20 years.

Oh, it is, yeah.

Every time I've driven through Oklahoma, I've been in some sort of tornado warning every single time I've done it.

It's crazy.

We had to stay there one time, and like the lady at the hotel was like, oh, yeah, there's a tornado warning, so keep an eye on that.

And, you know, go in the bathtub.

And we're like, what?

And she's just like, yeah,

in case it comes through.

We're like, is it going to come through?

She's like, you never know.

Okay, great.

Sounds good.

Median.

Bottle of wine and draw a bath.

That's sick.

Just to hang out in the bathtub.

Median age, 34.9.

48% married here.

18% are single with children.

So less married than average, a few more single with children than average.

Race here, 72.8% white, 3.5% black, 0.8% Asian, 13.5% Hispanic, 3.3% Hawaiian Pacific Islander, which is

As high as I've seen in any place other than Hawaii and California or Alaska, really.

So, Pacific Islands.

Yeah, it's that's a lot.

I don't know if there's a community here that maybe natives are just clicking that one because the natives aren't options or something.

I don't know.

Like, I know in Utah, there's a big like Samoan population there, so I don't know if there's like you know, if all half of Fiji has come to Enid, I'm not sure, you know, who the hell knows?

Uh, religious here, they're pretty religious.

58.7% of the people here are religious, and the biggest one is 17.6% Baptist.

As we know, the Baptists are the Catholics of the wheat fields, obviously, now we found out here, since the Northeast is all Catholic and otherwise there.

The unemployment rate here is 3.7, which is below the national average.

It's very low.

Really low, 3.7.

The median household income here is $57,772 a year, which is less than the national average.

It's about $69,000.

But everything's so fucking cheap.

And that's the thing.

The cost of living here is low.

$100,000 is regular average in the United States.

Here it's $72,000.

Oh, wow.

So, way low.

Housing is the cheapest of everything.

Yeah.

Median home cost here, $126,400.

What?

That's extremely inexpensive.

That's unbelievable.

If you want to be bored, we have for you the Enid, Oklahoma Real Estate Report.

Okay, average two-bedroom rental goes for about $940, which is about $300 less than the national average, $350.

Here's house number one: three-bedroom, one bath, 1,578 square feet.

And the listing is as such.

This is the entire real estate listing.

Okay, quote, this home, hade a fire, H-A-D-E, sells as is.

And it looks

all burnt and like charred.

Like on the outside, you see where fire came and like licked the fucking walls from the inside.

It's crazy.

There's no interior pictures.

Looks like it's going to fall down any minute now.

Three bedroom, one bath, 1,578 square feet of fire damage.

$29,900 for that.

I mean, you're buying the property and the footprint because you're just going to scrape it.

You have to knock the house down.

There's no way to fix this.

Here's a four-bedroom, three-bath, 2,339 square feet.

It looks like it's like that weird, you know, that Arizona, like Santa Fe style with like the

archway?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's what it is.

It's weird.

It's way too southwesty for, I know Oklahoma is sometimes considered the southwest, but this is like straight New Mexico, Arizona type shit here.

It's really weird.

Four bedroom, three bath, 2,339 square feet.

It's $299,900.

That's almost 3,000 square feet.

That's

not a lot of land, though.

It's a small lot.

Then here's a three-bedroom, four-bath T-bowl for each and every B-hole, and one leftover, 3,995 square feet.

This is on 21.7 acres.

Wow.

Big lot.

Yeah.

The Zillow listing says living space as a highlight, which yes, it is.

They say it's a thoughtfully designed living space.

Upon entry, you'll be greeted by a stunning wood cathedral ceiling that leads into a large large living room with captivating views of the gas fireplace and outdoor area.

It's nice, but it's not $1.5 million, which is what it costs.

It's not that nice.

21.7 acres.

Yeah, that'll do it.

That's what it is, but it's still of, you know, kind of flat.

What are you going to do out there?

You know what I mean?

Honestly.

Yeah.

Things to do here.

All right.

We have Simpsons Old Time Museum.

This is not an old-time museum about The Simpsons either, which is what I thought when I got excited.

There's 30 years of that.

We can watch it.

You could have it now.

So they say, visit

Simpsons Old-Time Museum and Skeleton Creek Productions Movie Studio and step back into the old west.

So it's like old Tucson, basically.

Same shit with, you know, the fucking.

Are there a lot of movies filmed in this area?

Not that I know of.

I don't know.

I mean, maybe.

I have no idea.

You never heard about it.

Hop Along Cassidy memorabilia, baseball collectibles, train sets, and a wide range of military items from the cavalry days through World War II.

So just any old shit they can find, they throw in there.

That's all cool stuff, but they usually have their own museums.

They just, here it all is in one thing here.

I mean, if you got a little bit of each, a hodgepodge, and then just slam it together and...

That makes a museum.

Now we got a museum.

They say they have their own indoor movie sets.

That was one of our having their own indoor movie sets was always one of the goals of our production company.

With this in mind and having space to build, we began our first movie set in 2003.

Since that year, we've increased the number of our sets and now have how many do you think?

Seven.

Several.

They don't even say.

Listen to honky-tonk piano music and sip an ice-cold sarsaparilla in the 1880s saloon.

Okay, if you get too rowdy, you might get taken to the marshal's office and thrown in our 1880s jail.

Jesus Christ.

Visit our 1880s hotel lobby complete with with stairway, and see our hotel hallway, an authentic hotel room.

It's just old-time stuff here.

Surrounding, oh, what is this?

Oh, in the center of the museum is an authentic chuck wagon, complete with a campfire and a cook.

We're very jealous of Dodge City.

Yeah, we really, we really are.

Crime rate in this area, what we are interested in here, obviously, property crime is about 50% higher than the national average.

Oh.

Shit is going down in Enid, man.

Boring my ass.

This place is is hopping.

And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and assault.

The Mount Rushmore of crime is exactly average.

Okay.

Exactly the national average.

So I don't know what's going on in this town that's making people so angry or

upset or whatever it is, but there's some shit popping off here.

That said, damn it, let's talk about some murder.

Let's do it.

Okay.

Now, first of all, I have to say something here.

This murder technically takes place within the boundaries of Oklahoma City.

Okay.

Now, the people are from Enid.

They moved to Oklahoma City.

Now, we did not realize, Team Small Town Murder did not realize

that this took place because when you hear it and you see the pictures, it's in this neighborhood that's it's not like downtown Oklahoma City.

It's out in the burbs and it's you know, it looks very small townish.

And then the people and the story, it sounds, it's our, it's our show.

It's small town murder.

So

it actually technically takes place in Oklahoma City.

Damn it.

But the people are from Enid, and they're in northwestern Oklahoma City, which is technically on the way to Enid.

So

if you were almost, if you just go a little further, you're going to end up in Enid.

We'll put it that way.

So it's almost Enid.

And we apologize for that.

But like I said, when you hear the story, you're going to go, yeah, this is a small town murder all the way.

So it's fine.

But we apologize about about the screw-up there.

Either way, here we go.

It's suburban town murder.

Either way, it's out there.

Let's talk about a woman first here,

Brenda Evers.

Let's talk about

E-V-E-R-S Evers.

She's born on December 10th, 1963.

She is described in a newspaper article as growing up, quote, in whitebread normalcy, living a life so vanilla, it was as if she'd stepped right out of a 1950s sitcom.

that's Brenda's growing up life very lots of lots of dresses with that doily around the neck oh yeah that doily and just a lot of like going down over to the soda shop yeah she's at the soda shop drinking a soda

making like food for all of the men in the house you know what I mean make your brother some food oh okay um makes your mother a sandwich yeah she was raised in Enid see there's Enid

In a very conservative, very Christian household, very Christian-ish.

And the family would, you know, do a big prayer before they ate and all that.

Just kind of your standard,

middle-of-the-country kind of Bible belt type of shit here.

They, you know, have big home-cooked meals and all that kind of thing.

One of her best friends from back in the day said she was just a typical sort of small-town girl.

I mean, she was nothing out of the ordinary.

That's what they say about her.

Her family now, the Evers family, the one neighbor said, I remember them being really quiet.

The whole family was.

They weren't very outspoken or anything.

These are a stoic, quiet people here.

They said that a lot of that they thought might have been caution.

You know what I mean?

That's just how they were.

I guess her sister, Kim, said that she and Brenda learned to be very private growing up because they have a severely mentally disabled brother.

And in the 60s, you basically hid that person in the attic.

Like there was no, you know, people were a lot less likely to be, you know, just proud of their kids, no matter what they are.

And

it was considered there must be something wrong with you or, yeah, I don't know, God cursed you, or whatever it is.

There was a real kind of a, just a stigma with that for a long time.

So

it is.

And they said that, but she said it actually, Kim said it actually helped them become stronger having a brother that had problems.

She said, because of my brother, we've both been very strong individuals, very careful and very guarded, though.

So

a lot of private type of thing.

One of her friends said she loved hanging out with Brenda and thought her parents were really nice and she had a lot of respect for them.

She said about Brenda's family, they were a lot like my family.

So, you know, that's made me feel comfortable.

In the seventh grade, Brenda enrolled in baton classing classes at Enid Twirling Academy.

A whole academy just for twirling.

52,000 people.

We got a twirling academy.

And this is in like 1970, so there's probably a shitload.

I bet there was 15,000 people back then.

They still had a twirling academy.

Useless ass academy.

Wow.

There was eight to ten other girls her age at 6 p.m.

every Wednesday.

So they found

10 girls a Wednesday to do this.

Her instructor said for her to take baton twirling in junior high, that's kind of a wholesome sport.

She was from a very wholesome family.

But

Belva Lamb, her senior twirling coach,

said that she was, quote, an average baton twirler at best.

Everything about her right up the middle.

Imagine, no matter what you did, if 35, 40 years later, they're like, you know, he really sucked at that when he was eight.

Couldn't hit a t-ball for shit when he was seven.

I'll tell you that right now.

I still remember that dumb bastard.

Yeah, he wasn't very good.

He's just

kind of a

non-achieving, just a real

right up the metal, useless fuck.

Kind of a loser he was.

I'm not going to lie.

I mean, I could tell, I looked at the eight-year-old and I said, the kid's a loser.

He's never going to get any better.

I'll take his parents' money for the lessons for this shit.

He's never going to learn.

I'm sure there's somebody who's got that quote locked and loaded for me.

I'm sure.

But she's really good at schoolwork, and she's very nice to her friends.

She gets good grades.

One of her friends said she was one of our little group of students who all got straight A's.

She played the trumpet and twirled for the band.

She didn't talk about boys very much.

Yeah.

Just real, I mean, this is like.

She's frustrated.

She

can't fucking figure out this trumpet or that fucking baton.

But she's going to high school in like the 70s, though.

This is like, you know, dazed and confused times.

And she's active this is like she's in the 40s you know what I mean it's a totally different disconnect so Brenda was not that she should be out like sucking dick and doing drugs I'm not saying that I'm just saying I don't know

there's a different lifestyle going on I mean this is post-Woodstock for Christ's sake you know it's just a different deal uh her friend said she was interested in school studying going to church and helping others she was always the first one to offer to help she's also really good in home ech class,

cooking and sewing.

Yeah, are especially her specialties here.

Irons like a bastard.

Jesus.

Oh, you never, never know anything about that.

Heats and iron like nobody's business.

No, you can't twirl a baton.

Even, even iron.

Just even.

No wrinkles, no burn marks.

Oh, forget about it.

A layer cake like a queen.

So

the problem is none of this, she's not good socially, really.

She has friends, but it's like her little group of like smart kid friends, and that's that.

Some people considered her kind of an oddball.

Okay.

One of her classmates named Brad said there wasn't much associating with her.

She was so quiet and shy.

She went to the football games, of course, but she never went out to the parties with us afterwards.

Okay.

Yeah, she'd go home once the game was over.

He then said she never drank or smoked or anything like that.

She was always real meticulous in how she dressed, real conservative.

She always buttoned her clothes all the way up.

All the way up?

All the way up to the neck, baby.

That's it.

Not a single button undone.

You cover your collarbones.

No one wants to see that.

The one at the bottom to make it easier to sit?

No.

No, no, no, no.

Safe some.

No, you can't.

If you have any room open, then the Satan can get right in there.

That's how it works.

The devil just jumps right in.

Yeah.

Once he's in there, you want to lock him all up, make sure he stays.

So in 1982, she's a senior in high school and she's starting to be less shy when she gets like a senior in high school here.

And she began dating a man here or a young man, I should say.

He's a year older than her, so not like anything untowards going on.

She began dating a man named Rob Andrew,

who was about almost two years older than her.

He studied advertising at OSU.

So he went to Oklahoma State.

Cowboy.

A little cowboy there.

That's the college.

And he's just rooting for Barry Sanders Sanders like you wouldn't believe.

So Brenda met Rob at the swimming pool during summertime, is what Brenda's sister Kim said.

So he got to see everything on display.

I mean, granted, she was wearing a full wetsuit buttoned up to the top.

I mean, it was,

she was real buttoned up, but still, yeah.

She had one of those like 1910s, like, you know, down to the knees outfits on.

But she said, like Brenda, Rob came from a tight-knit religious family as well.

So, same thing.

Her sister said, I think their values are pretty much the same, even though he was Baptist and she was Lutheran and their religious beliefs, they were a lot alike.

Yeah.

Wow.

Being

a non-religious person,

it's all the same.

I mean, I get that if you're in whatever sect it is,

you'll notice this tiny differences.

But from the outside, you're all praying in the same place.

So it seems similar.

And like I said, that's just my ignorance of the matter, but still.

But in their religious beliefs, they're a lot alike, which you'd imagine.

So, so Brenda graduates from high school, and she's dating Rob Andrew here.

Robert is his full name.

And his younger brother, I guess, used to frequent the same pool as Brenda, and that's how she met him.

This is Rob's brother, Tom, said she always asked me about him.

I went back and told him, quote, this chick at the pool's been asking about you.

Oh, that's how they met.

Hey, there's a

little hot piece of number here at the pool.

I mean,

that piece of number.

You get three or four of those layers she's wearing off.

I think she's got something going on under there.

You know what I mean?

These are a hot piece of number, I'll tell you.

Hot piece of number.

She's a

God, I'm an idiot.

So.

Did you see the game last night?

Of course you did, because you used Instacart to do your grocery restock.

Plus, you got snacks for the game, all without missing a single play.

And that's on multitasking.

So, we're not saying that Instacart is a hack for game day, but it might be the ultimate play this football season.

Enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders.

Service fees apply for three orders in 14 days.

Excludes restaurants.

Get closer to the music you love with MasterCard.

MasterCard cardholders have special access to pre-sale and preferred tickets at August Hall in San Francisco.

Get tickets early to see some of your favorite artists, like Red Hot Chili Peppers, the Avet Brothers, and Shabuzi.

See all of what's coming now at priceless.com/slash music.

Singing along with the ones that you love, Priceless.

Oh, man.

So he said, This is another friend said, I'm not surprised he fell for Brenda.

She was so kind and sweet and so soft-spoken, but he was a catch.

Yeah.

That's the brother talking.

She's getting a good one.

My brother's a real catch, boy.

I'll tell you something.

You should see the bulge in those speedos, boy.

It's going to attract all the ladies.

So after Brenda graduates, she spends a year at Lutheran College in Winfield, Kansas.

She is Lutheran, I guess.

Holy shit.

Before moving over to OSU to be closer to Rob.

So that's what she wanted to do.

And

June 2nd, 1984, Brenda and Rob get married.

Wow.

Look at Brenda getting married now.

She did it.

She fished herself a good one.

And they get married.

What church are they getting married in?

Oh, Lutheran?

What are they going to do?

The Redeemer Lutheran Church in Enid.

So he said, listen, whoever's got more buttons wins.

I can't compete with her.

She's buttoned.

Wow, he really, really loves her.

He's doing everything for her.

He does.

Yeah, they seem to really love each other, too.

She pursued him, and he's just

going to do anything for her.

That's great.

So they start setting up their life here.

They lived and worked in Oklahoma City.

Then they relocated to South Texas, where Rob got a job down there.

Rob went to school for advertising, and he gets a job in advertising.

And later on, he'll be an advertising executive and make a six-figure salary back and you know, do pretty well for himself here.

So Brenda stayed behind in Oklahoma as he settled in, and then she quit her bank job in Oklahoma and followed him down there.

So she found.

Houston or what?

I think it's outside of Houston, I believe.

So she found work at a bank down there and, you know, made some friends and all that kind of shit.

And they settled in and became part of the fabric of the community, wherever they were.

Now, Rob apparently

was less religious at one point than he became, or he had like a lapse in it or something here.

Because, yeah, one of his friends said that, quote, I knew he was a Christian because we had covered that ground early on, but I also knew that he lived on that ragged edge and he liked to party.

Hell yeah.

Yeah.

This is how he described to his friend how he was going to change his partying ways.

Okay.

He went to his friend and he said, on this day, this is his friend quoted here, Rob wanted me to know that things were different.

He held up a Susan B.

Anthony silver dollar.

and asked, do you know the story of the Susan B.

Anthony silver dollar?

And he said, I replied, of course, I've seen them and have passed many through my hands.

And he said, Rob said, no, no, that's not what I mean.

I didn't say, do you know that they exist?

Yeah, I know, yeah.

He said, do you know why they stopped making them?

Which he really should have started out with that.

Be specific.

The story of the dollar is...

That sounds like the origin, you fuck.

That's vague.

Yeah.

That's vague.

So the guy said, no, not really, but I'm sure you're going to tell me about it.

You know, let's go.

Going after it, you fuck.

So Rob said, look at this one.

He held it in full view, then reached in his pocket and pulled out a quarter and said, see, see how closely the quarter and the dollar are in size and appearance?

Which is true.

This guy said, I examined them with astonishment.

Yeah, they are pretty close.

He never noticed this before.

He's had them in his hand, but never noticed.

That's about the size of a quarter.

Yeah, I know all about them.

Anything that's that size, yeah, it's about the size of a quarter.

Like, I think you notice that.

So he said, he explained further, people were always confusing them for quarters.

They often passed in change as quarters.

On accident.

By accident.

So this guy said, I scratched my chin and looked at him with an expression that said, I suppose there's a point to this, but waiting.

Summit Mountain Mutton, what's your point?

Any minute now.

Tap, tap, tap, motherfucker.

What do we got?

So he said he continued, they were discontinued because they were too much alike and people were giving up dollars for quarters.

And he said, The guy goes on to say, then the real reason for Rob's conversation with me was revealed.

Rob said,

I was a Susan B.

Anthony dollar.

He's really making some analogies and doing some metaphor here.

People wanted me to attend parties because I always brought the party to life.

And a lot of people said he was the life of the party back in high school and college and shit.

Life of the party guy.

He said, I told jokes and brought the liquor.

And to everyone at the party, I was one of the gang.

So the guy says, Now the look on Rob's face grew grave and tears formed in his eyes.

What?

And he said,

Rob said, when I heard the Susan B.

Anthony dollar story and why it was canceled, I knew it was me.

I'm the dollar that was mistaken for a quarter.

I cheapened myself.

Oh, okay.

Yes.

He's passed off with the rest of the quarters out there, you know, drinking and having fun in college, doing normal shit.

He could have just said, I think I'm better than being drunk all the time.

That would have been fine.

But you know why?

He's got a gift for metaphor.

I'll give him that.

He really connected with me.

He's confusing the motherfucking,

but no one knew me.

No one who knew me would ever have guessed it.

He said, I was hiding my love for Jesus.

Christianity.

Yeah, the guy said, then his face began to glow.

And he said, quote, I got a roll of Susan B.

Anthony dollars and went to every person person in my office.

This is Rob talking.

I placed one on their desk and told them the same story I told you.

Then I asked for their forgiveness.

They're like, I don't care what you do outside of the office.

You got the TPS report or not.

I don't give a shit.

If you drink, you don't drink, show up on time, and no one cares.

Dude, I'm happy for you.

Feel better.

Yeah, good.

I mean,

great.

You don't need my forgiveness is what I'm saying.

Live your life.

I don't care.

Love Jesus.

Don't.

It doesn't matter to me.

It doesn't affect me at all.

at work is a weird place to do this yeah he said i was a christian in their midst and they had no clue because i was acting like i didn't know christ did he vomit in their desk or something

unless he came in with like a lampshade on his head and a half dranken bottle of fucking stoli going

balls hanging out the flap of his boxers or something hey i just I came to shit in the office bathroom.

I didn't know it was work time yet.

I was, woof, boy.

That wasn't the office bathroom.

That was my desk.

This is too stinky from my house, is all.

Unless he's doing that, like who cares?

Yeah, no one at work cares what you're doing.

But I mean, for him, though, this was a big,

just transformative event.

So

good for him.

You know, everybody finds their own life.

I'm happy for it.

Finds themselves.

You don't have to make a fucking

cycle of it.

You don't have to involve others, is my point.

Yeah, that's all.

Yes, that's.

If I'm sitting at an ad office, I don't care about this

at all.

I'm like, do you have that tagline for whatever horse shit we're selling for that insurance company?

That's all we're selling.

Unless you're making life miserable at the office because you're drunk.

Yeah, that's what I mean.

You're coming in.

I'm just telling everybody I'm not going to do it anymore.

Sloshed.

Right.

Congratulations on not getting fired about it.

Right.

But I mean, but it shows that Rob is definitely a thoughtful person and he thinks that he's done something to people and he's a nice guy.

That's all there is to it.

He's nice about it.

Jesus.

Yeah.

So by 1988, Rob is ready to come back to Oklahoma.

He's had it with Texas.

Brenda not quite ready to go.

She likes it down there.

She's made a lot of friends.

She's having a good time.

She doesn't want to go.

So they would fight repeatedly about moving.

And Rob got a new job in Oklahoma City at Jordan Associates, where he's an ad executive and makes really good fucking money.

So he wants to go there.

And he returned alone, leaving his wife behind for a few months.

He's like, well, I got to take this job and I'm going back.

Eventually, Brenda hooks back up with him in Oklahoma and returned to her old job that she had before they moved to Texas.

She made friends with the wife of a man named Rick Nunley.

We'll talk about later on.

As early as about 19 February, 1988, so they've been married about four years.

Rob seeks marital counseling from a pastor at that point.

Oh, okay.

Because they fought about the move and he moved back by himself and trying to get her to come with.

And they don't have any kids yet or or anything, so it's you know, it's tough.

So, he wants to talk to the pastor and tries to get some counseling going on.

I guess it works because she moves back there, and then on December 23rd, 1990, they have a daughter.

Oh, here we go.

And her name is Tricity,

spelled Tri-City.

Why?

There's a reason why here.

Okay.

There is an absolute reason why.

One story said, quote, no one, this is hilarious.

This was from the

Oklahoman newspaper.

No one would have described Rob Andrew as crazy, although he did do fun things.

This is from someone from work, like bringing slushes to everyone at work because he decided July 11th should be 7-Eleven Day.

He didn't decide.

That is that.

They do that, and they give away slushies.

It's a thing.

They were free, guys.

He didn't pay for these.

Or like naming his daughter Tricity because if she ever ran for public office, her slogan could be what?

What?

Electricity.

Okay.

I'm going to leave this.

I got to go.

Oh, man.

I hate it so much.

Wow.

Don't name your kid like a pun or wordplay, please.

Just give your kid a normal name.

In the hopes that maybe she does.

Otherwise,

if I saw that name,

if I went to school with a girl that was named Tricity, I would call her Tri-City all the time.

Just call her T-Bone.

T-Bone.

So Tricity is born.

I quit.

Dude, how else?

That's what I said.

Is this real?

I found this in two sources.

I went, it's got to be real.

That's all there is to it.

This is crazy.

So the couple's first child, Tricity, she's born, and they decide that Brenda should stay home.

and take care of the kids and be a stay-at-home mom now.

And her sister, Kim, said said she really, really enjoyed working in the bank.

But when they started having children, being a mom and being there to raise her kids became top priority.

Fine.

And they can afford to do that too, because he makes really good money.

So they can afford to do this.

It's a nice luxury to have the option to have if you want, you know, to have one person be able to stay home so you don't have to send your kid with strangers or force your parents to do it or some shit.

So September 27th, 1994 comes around, and they have a son named Parker.

Here we go.

So, yeah, they're doing well.

And Brenda, through all of this, she's embracing kind of the stay-at-home mom lifestyle with this.

She becomes, she stays really busy.

That's the thing.

She becomes a Girl Scout leader with Tricity.

She becomes one of the homeroom moms

at school, and then also a Sunday school teacher as well at the church.

So, yeah, so I mean, she's doing a lot.

She keeps herself real active and, you know, very involved in the kids' lives, obviously.

Good mom.

And everybody says very doting mother.

She's known as a kind and considerate neighbor.

One of the friend one of the neighbors

here had Alzheimer's and was not doing very well.

So she was described and she would help out.

She would like go over and do things for this neighbor to help him out, which is nice.

Not every neighbor, it's not a family member.

No, no.

You know, she was described by a former boss as a good employee when her husband allowed her to work,

which is an odd way to put it.

Yeah, no.

Yeah.

And also, it doesn't strike me as Brenda is the

stronger personality in the marriage.

Yeah, she's the one that was assertive enough to go get him.

Yeah.

So she, to me, like, just from everything I've heard from what everybody's described, if Brenda wants to work, Brenda's going to work.

Period.

Or if Brenda doesn't want to work, she's not going to work, but she's going to do what she wants to do.

And the only way Brenda's not going to work is if we have enough money for me to be the old-fashioned stay-at-home mother that she wants to be.

Yeah, and she wants to do all the volunteering stuff, and she likes that.

I mean, it keeps her, she likes to do things and stay busy, which is totally understandable.

And I think she found ways to fill that with the other stuff here.

Brenda's cousin said that she was the glue that held her family together after their father died.

So, I mean, it's, you know, she's, she's done it here.

Brenda helped raise and care for her brother till she moved for school, that she would help raise her mentally disabled brother as well.

So, I mean, everybody says she's just, you know, a super sweet person and very helpful and, you know, the type of person you can depend on.

Now,

after she has the second kid, though, she starts to be a little bit wilder, starting to come into her own a little bit.

And

she's like 30, 32 here.

So, I mean, time to have fun.

Yeah, and it takes a while to figure out who you are.

Some people figure it out earlier than others.

Yeah.

But nobody figures it out when they're 23.

No.

And

being a responsible person doesn't really start until your 30s.

And your 30s are your 20s with money.

So if you're responsible enough to understand that you don't,

fingers crossed.

Yeah.

Your 20s are usually just.

Your 20s are just pissing away all your money because you don't have any.

You don't have it.

No.

And that's what it takes to survive.

It's got to be weird when people get famous when they're like 23 because they kind of have to stay that forever now.

Right.

Because that's what everybody expects of you.

Whereas you are not a fully developed person yet, really.

You don't know who you are.

That's why that's what's the weird part.

You know, the best comedians are usually in their 40s and 50s.

Yeah.

Because

I have never seen, outside of like Eddie Murphy, you know what I mean?

I've never, and that's a once in a fucking lifetime talent.

Outside of that, I've never seen someone who's 22 be funny.

They can be funny for a joke, but for an hour, they have nothing to say because nothing's happened to them yet.

And that's not an insult.

It's just

that.

Chappelle, by the way, was pretty funny in the

early Chappelle was terrific.

Oh, he was great when he was 16, too.

But Eddie Murphy said, all I would talk about was taking a shit when I was younger because that's all I had done that was in his act.

What does that chunk want?

And he did it as somebody else.

As Richard Pryor, which is hilarious.

So Brenda gets wild here a little bit.

Rob and Brenda start to grow apart a little bit here.

The guy who is the president of a head hunting and consulting firm who worked with

Rob on hiring for the ad agency said that he met Brenda for the first time and he and his wife had arrived at the restaurant.

They're all going out to dinner together.

They arrived first and were waiting in the bar area when Rob and Brenda showed up.

The comment that was made, this is a quote from this guy, quote, the comment that was made was, who's the hoochie?

Oh boy.

The hoochie.

Her dress was very tight, very short, with a lot of cleavage exposed.

She's going out to an adult dinner.

Who cares?

She's not going to a Girl Scout meeting like that.

Who gives a shit what she does?

So I would like to know who said, who's the hoochie?

The comment that was made.

Did you make it or your wife?

I would like to know that too.

So he said that he pictured Rob, who was openly religious at work, being with someone who was way more, you know, buttoned up than this.

Brenda's got her buttons open now.

Yeah, she's already had a baby.

Tupac wrote a song about it.

Oh, yeah, we're doing that.

So 1997 comes along here.

And number Rick Nunley, who

we said, yeah,

his wife works with Brenda or worked with Brenda at the bank.

Well, Rick Nunley's an Oklahoma City reservoir engineer.

Oh.

I guess you have to.

You have to.

You'd have to engineer a reservoir.

You can't just say fill it with water.

That looks like a good enough hole.

You got to do some math.

There's not a lot of those being made today, right?

They're pretty much all made.

Yeah, I think the engineer probably works on the maintenance of it, too, and makes sure, like, you know, does the math of

it doesn't overflow.

Yeah, I don't know what the fuck is it run dry?

I don't know.

Something.

So,

yeah, he met Brenda when she worked with his wife, or at the time, his wife at the time, later to be ex-wife, at the bank.

The two couples, Rob and Brenda and Rick Nunnley and his wife, were friends for about 10 years at this point.

They met in like 87.

So at this point, they've known each other for 10 years.

By 1997 here, Brenda starts having an affair with Rick Nunley.

Brenda.

Yeah, this is family friends.

Rick isn't divorced from his wife yet.

This is two

intact couples, and the two partners here are going to go after each other.

Ruining Pictionary Night.

Oh, destroying Trivial Pursuit Night.

Destroying Trivial Pursuit Psalm Edition.

Is there one of those?

Probably.

It should be if there isn't, because I bet it would sell.

So

this continued and goes on and on and on for a while.

And other people started to notice it, too.

This goes on for over a year, this affair.

This isn't

one and done.

Well, I mean...

I mean, it's being hidden, but people are like, well, they're pretty fucking friendly with each other.

A little bit.

Jennifer Jones, who was a college student at the time and a nanny back then, she babysat for Brenda and recalled two occasions when she said something odd was going on.

She testified that once Brenda told her that I'm going to go get groceries.

And she left wearing a tight leather skirt and top to go to the grocery store.

She didn't come back with groceries.

Well, when she returned, she had no groceries and wasn't wearing her wedding ring.

And her hair's a mess.

Well, that's actually the next line is she said, and her hair

was a miss.

Incredibly disheveled.

She came back with disheveled hair, no groceries, and minus a wedding ring.

I mean, she might as well have a hand mark on her ass.

You know what I mean?

Why don't you just carry your panties in something?

Oh, she might as well have walked in and said, do you have an extra morning after pill?

No?

Okay.

Spinning your undies on your fingers.

Yeah.

Like a six shooter.

They were all out of groceries.

Spinning them like a six shooter.

But they had plenty of man.

All out of groceries.

Manwitch and man A's.

Plenty of man.

And Rick Nunley over here

knows Rob really well.

They're buddies.

They go fishing and shit together, and he's got the, he's, he's screwing his wife.

Like, this is pretty bad shit for everybody involved here.

It's pretty fucked up.

Another time, Brenda left wearing a, quote, provocative dress.

And Jennifer Jones said, I felt like something was going on, and I did not want to be a part of it.

I don't want to be here just to help this lady cover up her affairs.

Like, which that's fine.

That's the least Jenny Jones you've done.

You've done, Jenny Jones.

She's always involved.

She wants to know everything.

I want to know it all.

Tell me.

And then, so I held, I staged a fucking surprise ambush of Rob to tell him that his friend and his wife are fucking each other.

Another guy named Rod Lott, who used to work for Rob at Jordan and Associates, he said that he often accompanied Rob on business trips to Tulsa.

And he said that he and Rob once

he asked Rob once why he never told Brenda he loved her when they ended phone calls.

He's like, no, you don't tell your wife I love you at the end of your call.

Yeah, what's up with that?

Yeah.

Lott said, quote,

he said he tried to do that when they first got married, but she said it made her feel uncomfortable and told him not to do it.

I don't want to tell you I love you.

Don't tell me that.

It makes me feel guilty about this cock in my hand.

Yeah, it makes me feel real weird.

Oh, man.

So he also said, this friend said, quote, they hadn't had sex in years.

He would come home and see lingerie that was bought and he'd get his hopes up and he'd get his feelings hurt in the end.

Where's the lingerie going?

If you come home and you see there's all this sexy underwear and it never

on her, you'd be like, What the fuck is happening here?

I saw it.

Why didn't it materialize?

Why don't you put that one thing on?

Oh, I left it at, I mean,

god damn it.

Good God.

So that affair ends in about 1997 or 98.

I'm sorry, started at 97, ends about mid-98.

Then, in 2000, she has an affair with the dude who works at the grocery store.

Oh my God.

James Higgins is his name.

And

he, I guess he has like about a 16-month affair with Brenda as well.

Wow.

He said that Brenda used to come into the store flirting with him and wearing, quote,

low-cut tops and short skirts.

Then one day, this is incredible, by the way, if you work at a grocery store and you're like a young guy and you see like, you know, like these housewives coming in and some of them are like, you know, sexy and you're like, man, one of them is going to ask to hook up with me one of these days.

It's some weird, you know, teenage fantasy strange.

Ridiculous idea, yeah.

Well, quote, one day she brought him a motel key and handed it to him and winked, and that was that.

It was on.

Nobody has

ever, ever.

That's some shit that happened to like Frank Sinatra in 1958.

Like some women after a Vegas show throw him a hotel key.

This is crazy.

Can you imagine?

While you're stocking the fruit loops, this lady's like, here you go.

Wow.

What the fuck?

Yeah.

She gave him a key to a motel room.

They met that afternoon at the motel room.

And then these type of meetings occurred several times a week during those two years.

This wasn't like once in a while.

This was like every day.

They also had sex

at her home, you know, the family home.

And in the car as well.

You know, sometimes.

Sometimes you just can't get a location.

You just got to throw down on the floor.

No vacation.

Wow.

What do you want?

It's front seat wide open.

Goes all the way back.

Yeah.

So all during this time, Brenda kept telling James Higgins how much she hated her husband.

She also told him that she wished Rob was dead.

Now, if you're this Higgins guy, you're going, anyway,

like, you're not in this for all this seriousness.

So you're going to swallow that?

Wow.

So that's amazing.

So the affair continues.

She ends up breaking things off with him in about May of 2001.

But the problem is she broke up with him because there's somebody else.

And it's not her husband.

Oh my God.

We'll talk about that.

But there's other Brenda

things that people say about Brenda in the neighborhood.

And I'm going to say, first off,

this is a very like conservative religious area and people expect a different

i don't know i don't know they they're a little judgier in terms of sexuality in terms of just having any sexuality at all here at the time but it's still like the year 2000

in the united states of america so it's really weird to be like ah look at her with her skirt on who cares and in two thousand i mean

in two thousand what in two thousand yeah it's not it's not a b out of bounds for a woman to be free with her sexuality.

I mean, married and free with her sexuality is a bit much, but.

Married and fucking people from the grocery store is one thing, but going out in a skirt is a completely different thing.

Who cares?

That's not an issue.

Very normal.

Non-issue.

But here's some stuff that happened here.

There were neighborhood boys that were doing some work on the Andrew family deck.

I guess they were painting it or doing something.

They came home and told their mother that Brenda had come on to them.

These were like a group?

These were like 15-year-olds.

Yeah.

Like she came out being all fucking, you know, whatever.

I don't know.

Who wants some lemonade type of shit here?

That's what I mean.

This is a

usually stars Lisa Ann and a bunch of pool boys.

Usually.

The movers.

Yeah, the movers are a bit.

Or pizza delivery, which is the most unrealistic one because he's got other orders he needs to go deliver.

Also, why are all three guys delivering one pizza?

Seems inefficient.

Someone's getting cold wings is what I'm saying in the end.

A lot of people.

She's been there for an hour.

Although when I was a teenager, I delivered pizza.

At one time, I delivered to this motel in Fishgill, and this lady opened the door.

She was like probably 45 or whatever.

I was like 17.

She opened the door just nude.

And I just, I, not, I wasn't into it because she was like older than my mom.

So I was just like, that'll be $14.

I was pretended like she wasn't naked.

It was the weirdest thing ever.

Damn it through the pizza box, James.

Hey, I brought you pizza for you.

What do you say?

Extra sausage.

It's extra.

So would you want Italian sausage on that?

I got you covered, buddy.

So she also told a friend of hers that she liked having workmen at her house and used them to babysit.

Watch my kids for a minute.

I'm going to go hook up with the guy from the grocery store.

The least,

oh my God.

Yeah.

Like roofers and shit.

Yeah, that's what you want to do.

He does that because he's getting paid under the table because he's a felon lady.

Yeah.

Apparently at one point, she heard that a guy she knew liked redheads, so she dyed her hair red and told her friend about it.

Okay.

And then at another time, this is non-sexual completely, during an argument with a plumber, she threatened to kill him.

Which I don't think a lot of plumbers get death threats from housewives.

So she's like, this is wild.

So anyway, she breaks up with the grocery store guy, James Higgins, to find another James, a guy named James Pavitt,

P-A-V-A-T-T, or Pavat, however you want to fucking say it.

James.

He's born in 1952, so he's about 11 years older than her.

Yeah.

He's an insurance broker

at Prudential, he works for.

They describe, he's described in a newspaper as, quote, an Arkansas native.

Pavat had the aweshucks grin of a schoolboy and a face that would look at home in a bluegrass festival.

He seems as harmless as dry wheat toast and about as memorable.

This is hilarious.

Hideous and boring.

The preacher at the church he attended every week

said that he remembered Pavat existing, but couldn't really recall anything he ever said.

That's how nondescript you are.

It feels like he probably breathed in my church.

Like, I know he's been around,

but like, you know what I'm saying?

I don't know anything he's ever said at any point in time.

So that's interesting.

Now,

he was in the Air Force for a while, and he was, I guess, a police officer in the Air Force, like an MP there.

And he was at Tinker Air Force Base for a while in the 80s.

He tells everybody he was in the special forces and killed a bunch of people, but his military records don't mention any of that.

So

this show, Small Town Murder, is brought to you by BetterHelp.

BetterHelp.com.

You know it.

Therapy is a good thing.

We could all use it.

Not all of us are getting it.

So you should be getting it.

And you'll turn to weird places to get the support that you need.

You'll turn to a friend that might have an insight.

You'll turn to other people, your mother, some stranger.

Who knows?

But not everybody's a therapist.

That's the thing.

Not everyone is the one.

Find your right match with BetterHelp.

And you can do that.

I'm telling you, you talk to all sorts of random strangers or people you know or somebody cutting your hair or something about relationships, anxiety.

You know, it's nice to talk to those people.

But when you need somebody that really knows what they're doing here, those people might not have the right answers, but you can get guidance from a credentialed therapist online with BetterHelp.

And I'm telling you, man, BetterHelp is the great place to start therapy.

Perfect, sir.

If you're thinking you might need a little therapy, you definitely need some therapy.

So do that.

It's way different to talk to a therapist who actually knows what to do than just your friend who's trying to, you know, make you happy and keep you going here.

So they have quality therapists here.

BetterHelp therapists work according to strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the U.S.

The Therapist Match Commitment.

They'll do the initial matching work so you can focus on your therapy.

A short questionnaire helps you identify needs and preferences.

And then you can switch therapist at any time with no additional costs.

It's completely online.

You can pause your subscription if you need to.

You can switch therapists, do all of that.

They have the world's largest online therapy platform, served over 5 million people globally.

And you can join therapist with the click of a button, helping fit therapy into your busy life.

You can do it, everybody.

As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise.

Find the one one with BetterHelp.

Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/slash small town murder.

That's betterhelphelp.com/slash small town murder.

Now back to the show.

Check out the internet.

Video,

Don't miss the EV lease incentive ending soon.

And now, well-qualified current FCA lessees get an ultra-low mileage lease on the 2025 Jeep Wrangler Sport S4xE for $189 a month for 24 months with $3,079 due at signing.

Tax, title, license extra.

No security deposit required.

Call 1-888-925-GEP for details.

Requires dealer contribution and lease through Stellantist Stellantist Financial.

Extra charge for miles over 10,000.

Current vehicle must be registered to consumer 30 days prior to lease.

Includes 7,500 EV cap cost reduction.

Not all customers will qualify.

Residency restrictions apply.

Take delivery by 9:30.

Jeep is a registered trademark.

Super price.

Price it up when you're that boring, man.

No, shit.

The pastor who literally saves you every week can't remember you.

Anything you ever said.

I think I kept him from hellfire.

I don't know.

No, no, no, no.

Actually, I remember something he talked about.

Something to do with Jesus.

I'm not sure exactly, but I'm pretty sure that was the thrust of the conversation, what we were getting at there.

So other people have said that James told them he had a second or a secret job in which he killed people as well.

Who tells people that, first of all?

So he over here before he worked for Prudential Life Company, he attended the University of Oklahoma, then enlisted in the Air Force.

He's a military police officer.

From 74 to 95, We're talking career Air Force guy.

He served in Korea, Guam, Alaska, Mississippi.

He picked up a wife in Korea, too, that we'll talk about.

He does.

He has a Korean wife.

He also did a multi-year stint at the Tinker Air Force Base.

Records do not indicate that Pavitt saw combat or received any specialized commando training, as he claims.

In fact, aside from basic training, he attended only three other courses, including two academies for non-commissioned officers and a supervisory development course.

So, like,

yeah, like administrative shit, not like, you know, boring.

This is how you break a neck like Stephen Seagal in a movie.

Like

one-hand neck snap.

That's how you do it.

Breaking necks.

He's not even breaking down the M16, James.

Nothing.

No, there's no record that he ever killed anyone either in his military shit here.

Now, Brenda and James, they meet while attending the same church.

Okay.

Now, how do they meet?

Well, Rob and James.

She noticed him.

Rob and James are both church deacons.

Isn't that nice?

And they know each other real well.

And then she's, oh, here's my lovely wife.

Oh, that's great.

And then he's like, I'd like to also have sex with her.

Yeah.

Body of the text.

The Pabot and Andrew's family socialized together.

Oh, boy.

Yeah, they ate dinner at each other's houses and

all that shit.

Rob Andrews' brother, who rode in a truck with James Pabot for hours on a hunting trip, didn't think he'd ever met this guy.

He, this is crazy.

He never thought he met the guy until later on when he saw them on videotape together, even though he had spent hours in a truck with him on a hunting trip.

That's how nondescript he is.

You're in a three by three enclosed space with someone for hours and you don't remember them.

Forgettable.

Wow.

This guy is just forgettable.

That is crazy.

Even this is wild.

Even James Pavit's attorney called him a, quote, little poindexter guy.

So he doesn't seem like the type of guy where you'd be like, marriage be damned.

I need that cock.

It just doesn't seem like that kind of guy.

But on from his

vantage point, I keep blending into everything.

I'll go down on her and she'll forget me.

She won't even know I'm down there, for Christ's sake.

She'll forget that I went down there.

He has like 45 kids, but he doesn't pay any child support because none of the women can remember ever having sex with him.

It's incredible.

It's wild.

So Brenda and James started teaching Sunday school classes together.

And obviously, the mix of the children and the Jesus got them all horned up for each other.

If you can't get all sexified when you're teaching Jesus to children, I don't know when you can, really,

on a Sunday morning, also.

None of these things lend to

any sexuality.

So they do.

They began having a sexual affair at this point.

Around this same time, conveniently,

Brenda tells Rob, he really should get some life insurance, I think.

And you should get it through with Prudential through James.

He can hook you up.

So Rob ends up with a life insurance policy worth about $800,000,

which is a big one.

That's a pretty decent one, but he makes good money.

So, I mean, it makes sense.

He's making $150,000 a year or something.

So

it's fucking wild.

So anyway, he's got his,

James sells him this policy, and Brenda is the beneficiary, obviously.

Now, over the summer, this summer of 2001, after they start hooking up, James divorces his wife.

Oh, really?

Oh, yeah.

He serves her with divorce papers.

Prudential Dork is done.

He's done.

Suck Hugh Pavitt is his wife's name.

S-U-K.

I'd marry her too.

You know?

Separate name, H-U-I.

Yeah.

Suck you.

I mean.

Get the fuck out of here.

Yeah.

He met her and he was like, no, no, no, no, I don't want that.

She was like, no, that's my name.

And he's like, I don't have any money.

And she's like, no, you don't get it.

Yes, ma'am.

Yes, ma'am.

So, yeah,

she was shocked when her husband brought up a divorce.

She said, shocked.

Sure.

I bet.

She's like, I've been doing it all.

She said that at first,

James told her that he wanted a divorce because she didn't get along with his family.

Yeah, because all of his brothers.

That's all that matters.

Every time they see her, they just pull their dick out.

Yeah.

Like, that's that's not getting along.

So, James then said the divorce was for her protection at that point.

Listen, I didn't want to tell you this.

It's not about my family.

It's actually for your own protection because of problems with his previous duty in the special forces.

You know,

like the Mussad's after him or something.

Like, he's got some.

Yeah, I don't know what's going on, but he's got.

I'm the dark angel of South Korea, and they know.

That's crazy.

Suck you said, he said, I know, Suk, I'm sure it is, but still.

Poor ladies.

Suk-yu sounds like,

just sounds like a Korean version of Suk-Yu.

So fucked.

So she said, quote, he said Korea was the only place that was safe in the whole world and sent her to Korea.

Go back to Korea.

Get out.

She said she stayed a short time in Korea before returning to Oklahoma City because he told her that he had made the biggest mistake of his life later on.

Then she said, when I got back there, she said, I found a different man than I knew before.

She said, quote, he wasn't the same Jim I knew for nine years.

He was the most kind person while we were married.

Something was not right with him.

So he switched it up a little bit here.

Now, through all of this, Rob is not an idiot.

That's the other thing.

Rob suspects that his wife and James are having an affair.

He just does.

I mean,

it's got to be kind of obvious.

You know what I mean?

Everybody else knows.

Now, her Sukyu

said,

we'll say it like that.

She said that James denied having an affair with Brenda because she confronted him, too.

Are you having an affair with the church lady?

No, I'm not.

Okay.

While in South Korea, she said she received divorce papers from James to sign in return, and they were divorced September 6th.

And she went back.

He sent her there telling her to be safe safe there.

Yeah.

And then

she came back and then went back to Korea, and then he just mailed her divorce papers.

Take these.

She said that, yeah, he was just a different guy when she had come back to Oklahoma.

She said he was nervous.

He wasn't the same person.

Yeah.

Nervous, you're going to catch me plowing Brenda here.

She said that

he said that the other thing is he said, you have to go back to Korea because

I need to protect myself and protect you.

And and suck you said he said Rob was accusing him of something

so now she also his wife also said that they had money problems about thirty thousand dollars in credit card debt

that's rough and in 2001 that's even more money that's deep yeah so she um yeah she said when she learned about the debt in January 2001 she made arrangements with the credit card companies to make specific monthly payments in an effort to pay off the bills do a structured yeah um they were i guess paying $1,500 a month on credit cards, trying to pay it back.

Damn.

Man, that is rough.

She said, I had to drop out of school to pay off the credit cards.

I asked him if he paid my school off.

He said he did, but he didn't for the divorce.

And

sending her back with all her own fucking student debt.

Enjoy.

Terrible.

She said, I believed him 100%.

He was the most lovable man in the whole world.

I still care for him.

Well, that's going to be crazy.

Then also, she said that James, to get her back to Korea, to get her an airline ticket to Korea, since they don't have any money, James, quote, borrowed a credit card from Brenda and Rob.

So

he said, I need money to send my wife back to Korea so we can fuck at my house.

And she was like, well, use my Amex.

And that was that.

So September 19th, 2001,

Brenda and James are brought into the like the principal's office there at the North Point Baptist Church

because of concerns about their actions and they are told they are not allowed to teach Sunday school anymore.

Yeah, because

you're a problem.

You're two married people fucking each other in the, well, I guess one married person now, but for all intents and purposes.

One got rid of their spouse to continue this fucking thing.

It's not good.

We know what you're doing.

Then that's September 19th.

In the next 10 days or so before the beginning of october brenda asks rob to move out of the house as well really they have a nice house too it's like a 6 000 square foot fucking house it's a nice it's a big old house man it's nice get out that'd be wonderful You could just ignore the person if you don't like them.

Just stay on the other side.

There's three houses in there.

It's like 6,400 square feet.

That's three decent-sized houses.

Two big houses, three nice houses.

It's big.

And he does.

He moves out.

A next-door neighbor recalled seeing James's truck at the residence with increased frequency after that.

Then he was stopping by.

They said it was very common to see James's truck in the Andrews driveway shortly after Brenda had put the kids on the school bus.

He pulls right in.

Man, that is crazy.

James also, for some reason, told his adult daughter, Jana or Jana, J-A-N-N-A.

Is that Jana?

That's Jana, right?

Jana?

Jana.

Yeah, I guess it's Oklahoma.

It's Jana.

Told his adult daughter, Jana, that he was having a sexual relationship with Brenda.

I bet you can't wait to tell your daughter about your sexual relationships.

I have an adult daughter.

I would never tell her anything about sex, about me.

I'm not telling her

she doesn't want to know.

I don't want to tell her.

I'm going to embrace her if she gets to meet anybody, but I'm not telling her about conquests.

But even

if you were with somebody and you wanted her to meet them, you wouldn't be like, I'm having a sexual relationship with her.

She just probably assumed that, I would assume.

Hey, Press, this is Tabitha.

I go down on her a lot.

I go down on her.

No, she's reciprocal.

She returns the favor.

Keep that in mind when I kiss you on the cheek.

So he also told Jana that...

His plan was to marry Brenda and have a child with her.

I'm going to fucking put one.

I'm going to put one in in the oven there.

Hello, adult child.

I'm starting all over again.

Starting all over, even though I've already started all over.

Yeah.

From your mom.

This is the third time.

So Brenda continued to talk about to anybody that she could, especially even the grocery store guy who she's not even having an affair with anymore

about that she hates Rob.

hates her husband.

At one point, she told him, I don't know if this is

right outside the fucking Red Baron Frozen Pizzas or what, but she told him that she wished Rob would just die so she could get the money and go on with her life anyway lemon's two for one yeah

so October 1st 2001 remember Rick Nunley the first affair she had there right yeah um okay well Brenda and Nunley for some reason she keeps in contact with him on the phone all the time she's always talking on the phone with this guy

it's like a dick in a glass case

in case of emergency break yeah break glass and you got this.

So they did that.

Nunley met Brenda in downtown Oklahoma City about the 1st of

October, and Brenda told him that she's going to get a divorce.

That's what she said.

She's going to get a divorce.

Rob moved out of the house.

At some point during the month of October here, Brenda told Nunley that she was upset about Rob trying to change the beneficiary on the life insurance policy.

we'll find out why.

Cell phone records indicate that 87 phone calls between Brenda and Nunley were completed during the months of September, October, and November 2001.

So about 30, about one a day that averages.

You talk to this motherfucker every day.

Every day.

Every goddamn day.

Outside of my wife and probably you, there's not a lot of people I talk to every day.

Yeah, there's not a lot.

You know, like, that's every day is a lot.

I don't talk to my mom every day.

No, no.

she's sick yeah i haven't talked to my dad in three weeks he's got stage four cancer yeah that's what i'm saying it's a lot it's every day is a lot it's just you really got to want that um now october 3rd 2001 brenda files for divorce okay officially rob doesn't want a divorce he wants to get back together

that's what he wants um

He told his friends Brenda could have the house, the money, whatever, but he just wants to be able to share custody of the kids.

That's it.

He just loves the kids and he doesn't want to lose the kids.

So October 26th, 2001,

our first police involvement happens here.

Really?

Okay.

Buildings are smoldering on the other side of the country and we got

police.

Absolutely.

We got worse shit happening here.

So on this day, he spotted some fluid under his car when he went to get in his car.

And he's getting in his car for a very specific reason because he's been called and told to go somewhere because Brenda's been hurt in a car accident.

Oh,

been told to go to the hospital, but he spotted fluid under his car.

So he drove to a repair shop that was very close by, and they told him, your brake lines have been cut.

Yeah.

How'd you make it here?

Yeah, they were like, I guess it was still in the lines, whatever was in the lines.

So they said, your brake lines, not ripped, cut clearly, intentionally, obviously.

Someone cut them.

They don't just explode in a perfect cut.

Right.

In the most available spot for wire cutters to get to.

Yeah.

So Rob calls 911 because he's like...

That's attempted murder.

He says to the 911 operator, tells her what happened, then says, that sounds like attempted murder, don't you think?

Yeah.

Right?

Someone tried to kill me, right?

Yeah.

So, yeah,

he started, I guess.

Him and Brenda have been fighting as well.

She's been flooding him with accusatory calls and leaving messages on his answering machine that are really nasty and yelling at him and openly telling everyone she knows that she hates him.

Openly.

So he tells police that he thought that Brenda and James were plotting to kill him.

They said, that's who cut my brake lines.

This is fucking nuts.

He goes, I got phone calls.

The reason I was even going anywhere to find out my brake lines were cut is I got mysterious phone calls.

telling me that

that there's Brenda was in the hospital was in a car accident.

So I was, that's what this was.

And we'll find out where those phone calls came from.

He got phone calls from a man and a woman telling him this.

You need to go to the hospital and get Brenda or go see Brenda.

So, yeah, he tells police that he suspects his wife and James are having an affair.

He says that James is very angry with him and, quote, has talked about being a special forces commando and that he's killed numerous people while in the military.

Yeah, they teach you how to cut brake lines.

Yeah,

that's the go-to there.

Yeah, that's that's how he took down Hitler.

That's what it was.

It wasn't, you know, just the Russians and us invading.

It wasn't a D-Day or any of that stuff.

Brake lines.

He went right off a cliff.

Right off a cliff, like a soap opera.

Wee, poof.

Yeah.

So,

yeah, this is good that he notified the police anyway.

He told his friend, though, it feels like he has a target on his back now.

He has to check his car before he gets in it, like a gangster.

Yeah.

You know, like, you want to start my car for me?

So the next day,

Brenda called Rob after the brake cutting incident and said that she read in the newspaper that someone cut his brakes.

Are you okay?

In the newspaper?

It was not in the newspaper.

No media covered it.

Why would she say that?

She figured it would be a story.

But it wasn't.

The only people who knew that the brake lines were cut were Rob, the mechanic, the police,

and fucking Brenda, obviously.

I read a news story of you careening off a cliff.

Are you okay?

You good?

Is that okay?

I made it to a garage where they fixed my brake lines, you cut, you psychotic bitch.

You fucking asshole.

So that's interesting.

Now, another thing is the insurance here.

After his brakes were cut, he inquired about removing Brenda completely as a beneficiary.

Yeah.

So

the problem, this is fucking wild here.

He asked James that because James is his insurance guy.

So he thinks James just tried to kill him.

But yet he goes to James because that's his insurance guy.

Yeah.

So that sucks.

This is fucked up.

At one point, by the way,

there is a change of ownership form that's backdated to 2001 that's going to be suspicious.

But anyway, Rob goes and tells and says to Jamie James he wants to change it.

Now, James tells him you can't change it because you're not the owner of the policy.

She is.

That's not true, though.

No.

So Rob then went to James's boss

and said, can I change this beneficiary?

I, you know, what the fuck here?

And the guy said, of course you can.

It's your policy.

You're the owner of it.

You pay for it.

You can change it to anybody you want.

You can have Michael Jackson get it if you want.

He wasn't dead yet.

I said who it is.

It doesn't matter.

So they said that

when James found out that Rob had went over his head at work,

he was furious and called Rob up and said, If you think you have problems with Brenda, you haven't seen anything till you've messed with me.

Oh,

okay.

Now, while all this is going on, Rob is keeping a journal.

This is his prayer journal, apparently.

We should have all changed our life insurance policy people to Ed McMahon and surprised the shit out of him every single day.

That would have been amazing.

Why do people keep giving me money?

I'm making a ton every day.

Every day, Prudential and State Farm.

They're all ringing my doorbell.

Who did Ed McMahon work for?

Besides Johnny Carson?

Oh, I don't know.

What's the name of the people who come to the door?

Publishers Clearinghouse.

Nope.

What was it?

Isn't that amazing?

Is it not Publisher's Clearinghouse?

No.

He worked for another one that popped up to compete with Publisher's Clearinghouse.

And everyone thinks that Ed McMahon worked for Publisher's Clearinghouse.

He has never worked for Publisher's Clearinghouse for a day.

It was a different one.

Isn't that amazing?

That's a good idea.

That blew my mind.

I just heard that the other day.

Just heard that.

It wasn't even Publishers Clearinghouse.

No.

No.

The publishers.

Every reference ever was, this better be Publishers Clearinghouse and Ed McMahon with a big old fucking check for me.

There's the guy who, one of the guys who was running Publishers Clearinghouse, wrote a book and was like, everyone thinks it's Ed McMahon.

Never Ed McMahon.

He goes, but we got the most free advertising out of that because you just put him with that, with that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What was the clearinghouse?

I don't know.

American, whatever the fuck, publishing.

Who the hell knows?

But it doesn't matter.

It was American Family Publishers.

There it is.

It wasn't even publishers.

No, it wasn't about that.

Isn't that crazy?

Nobody's ever heard of American.

Whatever the fucking, you gave away a bunch of money advertising it, you dumb fucks.

That's right.

They still, they made a fortune.

So in Rob's prayer journal,

he wrote that God would intervene and allow him to reunite with Brenda and the children.

Okay.

God's going to come fix this all.

He wanted a change of heart, a recommitment to marriage and faith, and we wanted his life back, he said, One of his entries, he said, I am in great pain.

This is on November 12th.

He said, I know that if I face these problems and allow God to work, he will show me a way of escape.

Later on that month, he wrote, This is November 19th, he wrote, I have faith in God.

I should walk with assurance of the things I hope for: a relationship with my kids, a loving wife, a home that worships, laughs, plays, and loves.

So, November 18th, 2001, Brenda buys the kids a new puppy.

Oh, that was nice.

A Yorkie.

I guess

the son has a chihuahua, but the daughter doesn't really like the chihuahua, and the daughter's dog had

chihuahua.

It's a New York accent.

I don't know what to do.

Chihuahua.

Nothing.

Chihuahua, I don't know.

Fuck you want for me.

Say I like the fucking, like the store in Philly.

The fuck you want from me.

The fuck you want for me.

I don't know.

You say that, Fon.

All right.

So they don't like the chair.

So they got that.

And then they also have

the daughter's dog had died a few months ago.

So they had to put it down.

So they get the daughter a Yorkie.

They get Tri-City a Yorkie.

They got

11 pounds of dogs in this house.

Two dogs.

Two of them.

I didn't even mean to call her Tri-City just.

I meant to call her Tricity, and I called her Tri-City.

Tri-City.

Damn it.

A Yorkie.

Hard.

They said the girl's grandmother.

This

this is Rob's mother, said she got that dog on Monday, and all day Monday they tried to get Rob to come over and see it.

The kids were.

They said he went over there with a friend, but something happened.

And I don't think he got a chance to see the dog then.

What happened was he went over with a guy named Ronnie Stump, a friend of his.

It's his best friend.

And they went over to the house to see the dog.

Brenda got livid that he brought someone over, even though it's his best friend.

She's known him for 10 years or whatever, 15 years.

Leave him alone, yeah.

Livid and said that no way you're not allowed, wouldn't let him in the house because he brought a friend over.

He even said, Ron, I'll wait in the car.

And she was like, no, you brought someone here.

You can go now.

Get out.

So Rob was really discouraged, obviously,

here.

And

he was talking to Stump here about all this.

And, you know, later on that night, he ended up going back to the house without Stump to see the dog.

Okay.

This is his mother said this, quote, Rob's mother.

He did say that he went back over there later that night to see the dog.

Tricity was just insistent on it.

She kept calling late at night.

It was like 10 o'clock.

He went back over and Brenda brought the dog out to the car, but he never did get to see Tricity.

It didn't make sense to him.

Imagine her just like holding the, look, here it is.

See it?

All right.

Holding it up to the window.

I guess pet it once or twice.

See what you're saying.

10 pounds of adorable.

Look at it.

Look at it.

Now, that same day, the puppy thing and all of this, on this same day, James buys a.22-caliber revolver from an Oklahoma City gun dealer on that same day.

Yeah, the prudential guy.

November 19th, the next day, 2001, there's a phone call here.

I guess this is

to a friend of hers who is the mother of one of Tricity's friends.

Okay.

She called this lady up, Brenda does, Cynthia is her name, and

repeatedly declared how much she hated Rob.

Here's a quote from Cynthia, quote, I hate him, I hate him, I hate him.

I was shocked the way she said she hated him.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's a lot of hate.

Three hates.

November 20th, 2001.

Here we go.

Now it's all coming closer together.

Rob is supposed to pick the children up for the long Thanksgiving weekend.

He pulls up.

While he pulls up, he is on the phone on a cell phone call with his friend Ronnie Stump.

And as he's speaking to Stump, he says abruptly, I've got to go.

They're coming out.

And he hangs up.

Yeah,

he was in the driveway finishing up the conversation.

The next thing you know, about 10 minutes later,

15 minutes later, there's a 911 call.

And it's Brenda calling 911.

And she says, quote, I've been shot.

Oh.

My husband and I, we've been shot.

Oh.

Yeah.

She said, we were in the garage and my husband, me and my husband, and he's got blood all over him.

That's at 6.20.

That call is made, p.m.

She said they'd been shot in the garage by assailants wearing black masks.

That's what she said.

Now, by the way, our Patreon could not be more apt for this because because that sounds crazy.

Squad shit.

Wait till you hear our Patreon this way.

It's insane.

So anyway, this is what's going on.

And in a second call, which ended at 6.26 p.m., she said that Rob was bleeding a lot, but he was conscious, breathing, and trying to talk.

Terrific.

Okay.

When the police arrived, Rob's car is in the driveway.

Garage door was up.

Brenda's van is in the garage.

She's got a minivan, like a maroon minivan.

Rob is lying flat on his back on the garage floor in a pool of blood.

Brenda is sitting about three feet away in the doorway between the garage and the house.

Just staring, just staring down.

Now,

right away, they said, are there children in this house?

Right.

And yes, there are.

Oh, shit.

Where the fuck are they?

Yeah.

Cops go in.

They look for the kids.

The kids are.

perfectly safe and sound in the back bedroom, room furthest from the garage.

The door was shut and the tv was on to what the dis the officer described the volume raised to a very uncomfortable level like loud for no reason loud as like yeah kids like loud but this is like whoa like you walk in holy shit it's on like you know 97.

you're like no no no turn that down

so um that's a lot here um he had come to pick the kids up and now he's on the floor so this isn't good she said that they said well well, what the fuck happened?

She said, well, I asked him if he could come and help me.

The pilot light in the garage was getting, was acting weird.

So I asked if he could relight it for me.

And he said, yeah, sure.

The hot water heater, I guess.

Yeah, the furnace is out there.

And he followed her and he squatted beside the furnace.

And that's when this all happened.

Now,

he is also clutching

a trash bag filled with empty soda cans as well, they found him, because

he recycles and he was trying to spread the word of recycling.

Not only does he spread the word about Jesus, he spreads the word about recycling.

So he said, Oh, strangers are here.

Let me tell you about the virtues of this.

Johnny recycles seed.

That's it.

That's me, baby.

But they think he grabbed it and tried to protect himself, like just grabbed whatever and was holding it up.

I mean, people hold their hands up.

He was holding up a bag of empty cans, which didn't do much with gunshots

that riddled his body, as we'll talk about here.

Wow.

So So emergency personnel arrive.

He's on the floor of the garage.

He's got extensive blood loss and they're unable to revive him.

Rob is dead.

He's declared dead on the floor of the garage.

Now, Brenda also has a gunshot wound to her arm, but it's a very superficial wound.

Oh, great.

Kind of a gray, just a flesh wound, basically.

So she is taken out of the garage to the curb to be treated and asked what the fuck happened, basically.

She told police at the scene that there were two armed assailants wearing black masks and black clothes that came in.

She said they only said, these assailants only said six or seven words to her, but she couldn't remember any of them, what they were.

There's so few.

I don't remember a single.

And I remember none of them.

Must have been James.

He's so forgetful.

He's very forgetful.

Wow, yeah.

So also,

she said the assailants fled the scene on foot, is what she said.

They took off.

There was no car parked outside or anything like that.

They took off.

Several guys.

So a patrolman who had responded to here to this place here, his name is Roger Frost.

He said he's been to several hundred crime scenes, 20 or 30 homicides.

He's one of the first officers to arrive.

He described Brenda's behavior as strange that evening.

He said she wasn't hysterical, as is usually the case.

Instead, she said that she was very calm and able to answer questions straight on, and that every once in a while she would sort of cry, but it seemed fake to him.

Now, this is not a good gauge of someone's truthfulness, though, because everybody, they've done talentless studies.

Everybody reacts different to this type of shit.

Everybody.

Some people get super calm because there's stuff to be done and they get in that mode.

Some people are hysterical.

You know, some people.

It depends on what you've experienced in life.

Everybody

handles shit differently.

If it's your first time with grief and murder and you're going to have a problem.

It's what, like, as crazy as I am, I'm great in a crisis.

Yeah.

If something's going on, like, I am, let's focus, let's do it.

I'm like a fucking military precision.

I freak out afterwards.

And I'm like, now that that's over,

but while it's going on, no need to get crazy.

Let's fucking focus on what's happening.

So maybe she's just doing that.

Who knows?

We don't know.

So when asked what she did after the shots were fired, she said she went into the kitchen to get the phone to call 911 and then checked on the kids in the bedroom and then came back to the garage from there.

The problem is there, there's no blood trail leading.

She's bleeding from the arm.

She's bleeding from the arm.

It didn't go in.

No blood trail or any blood in the house at all.

There's no blood inside the house.

And she said she went in, walked all the way to the other side of the house and back, but never dripped a drop of blood.

And that is strange.

They didn't even find blood on the receiver of the phone,

which is, again, odd.

So, yeah, she said that this is, they said, start from the beginning.

She said, I stepped outside the house and opened the garage door.

The children remained in the house.

She said, I brought a pet carrier to Rob's car and asked him to help turn the furnace back on, help light the pilot.

Rob was dressed in long-sleeved blue shirt, plaid socks, burgundy dress shoes, followed her inside, knelt down

beside the heating unit, and went to work on lighting it.

The police found burnt matches on the floor nearby, but the pilot light still unlit.

Okay.

So he was trying to do it.

So she said he was squatting with his back to the garage entrance at the nose of the maroon minivan, which was off to his right, leaving a narrow alley between the passenger side of the vehicle and the east wall of the garage.

As you know, if it's a one-car garage, there's not a lot of room there.

So from that point there,

she says that she told police that

she and her husband were disturbed by voices outside the garage.

They heard something and they were like, what's going on?

Two men rushed in, faces concealed by the dark masks.

They were outside.

She said Rob turned around and a shot rang out

and it hit him.

She said he picked up a trash bag filled with cans and held it in front of him.

Like a shield, which is just sad.

You know,

that sucks, man.

The second shot was fired, she says, that hit her in the arm.

And then a third shot was fired after that

that hit him again.

So they went, and then they just took off on foot.

Didn't want anything, just wanted to murder them in the garage, apparently.

It's just a good time to shoot a people.

That's it.

Not even the minivan they didn't want.

So

acting on their information, police began searching for these people.

that struck without motive or anything else all over the place.

And they were like, I don't don't understand it.

There's only one escape route on the street, and it's at a time of day when there's a lot of activity.

It's six o'clock at night.

People are coming home from work.

They're going out to the grocery store.

They're doing things.

The men are never found in the neighborhood.

Oh.

No one else on the street saw anybody wearing all black in masks, carrying guns, nothing of them, even just two guys.

They didn't see any of that.

Nobody saw anything.

No one in the neighboring areas saw them either running away.

So they didn't know, you know, there's none of that.

Demster Dematerialized.

That frost officer said about Brenda, she was crying like fake crying.

She wasn't hysterical like most people involved in this kind of crime.

So he said, you know, he's, he had this frost guy said he's familiar with the neighborhood because he's worked, he works as an extra job as security in this neighborhood

for the last 13 years, and he had written a driver, a traffic ticket in front of their house less than an hour before the shootings.

Just a minute ago, he was

just in front of this fucking house, he said.

So

he was doing these extra patrols because Brenda had asked the security company for extra patrol around her home after they separated.

She was saying she was scared of Rob.

Really?

Yeah, which there doesn't seem to be much reason to be scared of Rob.

He's just not like that.

So the wounds here, Rob was shot twice with a 16-gauge shotgun.

Okay.

They found a spent 16-gauge shotgun shell was found in the garage on top of the family van.

She was grazed with a shotgun, too?

No, we'll talk about that.

Now, Rob owned a 16-gauge shotgun,

but had told several friends that Brenda refused to let him take it when they separated.

And it's usually in a closet in the bedroom.

The shotgun is missing from the home, by the way.

Oh,

yes.

One witness, by the way, comes forward and says they saw Brenda at an area used for target practice near her family's rural Garfield County home eight days before this murder and later found several 16-gauge shotgun shells at the site out there.

Now, Brenda's wound was caused by a.22-caliber bullet.

Who's got one of those?

A prudential man just bought one.

So

Rob was shot once in the side and once in the neck.

God damn.

With a 16-gauge.

Yes.

God damn.

From pretty close range.

Pellets from the first shot entered his right lung, trachea, and liver.

The second shot came downward into his neck, so

right over him.

It's cold-blooded, making a fist-sized tear in the skin.

Fuck.

That is horrifying, man.

And hitting his aorta.

A medical examiner said said that the wounds would cause him to bleed to death in less than 10 minutes.

Yeah.

And by the way, fucking minutes with those shots?

Ouch.

Whether there's no way he was conscious and trying to talk, probably with half of his neck missing.

Yeah.

That would be hard.

Now, Brenda, they asked Brenda, you know, they're talking about the shotgun and all that.

And

she tells police if the shotgun were still in the house, because they say, are there any shotguns in your house?

Yeah.

And she said, if there was in the house, it would be in the hall or the bedroom closet.

So there's that.

Now, James Higgins, who, by the way, was helping Rob move out of the house.

Oh, God.

Jesus Christ.

He said he saw the shotgun in the bedroom closet back then, which was a month ago, month and a half ago.

The murder weapon is never found.

We'll talk about it.

But the evidence shows that he was shot with a single shot shotgun, which was

reload, which would make sense for the one shell.

If you cock it and the shell pops out, that's on top of the minivan.

And then the second shell is probably still in the gun.

Still gone, yeah.

Because that's not one that automatically ejects, correct?

Right, right, right.

You got to take those out.

You got to

yank it out and throw a new one in.

Exactly.

There's no racking it.

That's a single shift shotguns are useless.

That's what I kind of thought.

I'm glad I had that.

It's a children's gun.

It's a shotgun.

There's a 16-gauge.

The 20-gauge is really for the 15 and 16 year old boys.

You can murder a man pretty easily with it.

You can certainly hurt people with them.

Yeah, it seems like it's don't talk shit about it.

It seems like it's doing itself.

I'm not belittling it.

I'm just saying it's a single shot.

It's not necessarily a great murder weapon.

No, no, it's not.

If you miss, you're in deep shit.

Yeah.

So, yeah, they're talking about, you know, they think he was trying to shield himself with cans

and all of that kind of thing.

So they say

she goes on to say that, and all the facts say he might have been conscious for a few minutes.

Oh, Christ.

During this.

Now, in the door leading from the garage into the house, they found an embedded metal projectiles.

They find an embedded bullet.

Because it was mashed up, they couldn't figure out the caliber at the scene, but upon expert examination, it was determined to be a.22 caliber.

So that's the one that went through Brenda's arm.

I think it's her left bicep, like right on the side there.

I'm trying to remember the picture, which side it was on.

So

when she called James

to ask him about it, because I get, or did she find it or did they find it?

Yeah, I guess they found it here.

Oh, the projectile was damaged, like we said.

It was too damaged to conclusively determine the manufacturer.

So the state presented later on.

They have experts to say the projectile was consistent with 22 caliber live rounds collected over the course of the investigation that we'll find.

Now, there's a live round that she finds in the house, and when she called James to ask him about it, he told her to throw the bullet away and not tell anybody about it.

Don't say anything.

Shut up.

Yeah, that's real interesting there.

And by the way,

the shot to Brenda's in the back of her arm, so it does not, it looks impossible to be self-inflicted, basically.

So Brenda's taken to the hospital for treatment.

Her behavior was described by several witnesses, and these are people in the hospital that deal with this all the time, as uncharacteristically calm for a woman whose husband had just been gunned down in front of her, and she was shot also.

It was wild.

So Brenda says she agrees to speak with police because she wanted to help the police catch those responsible for shooting her husband, she said.

So she's taken to be questioned, still with the smock on and everything from the hospital.

And she really has no fucking choice.

I mean, she's, she's, they got to talk to her.

You were there.

We need information out of you.

Yeah.

So the detective tells her you're a witness, not a suspect.

Don't worry.

You know, all that.

After the interview, they took her to a friend's house and everything.

Like, you know, they tried to be whatever.

She was not under arrest at any time, never handcuffed or restrained or anything like that.

The police,

the problem is here, they guess they, she is wounded and medicated at the time.

So they're still trying to talk to her.

She repeatedly told the officers she needed to leave, and the officers would ask more questions rather than letting her leave.

So at one point, about an hour and 20 minutes into the interview, she said, can I go see my kids?

And they just didn't answer, and they just kept talking.

40 minutes later, she asked again if she could go care for her children, and the detective told her she could only leave after they finished the questioning.

Now, by that time,

by the time she ends up being released from the police station, it's after 1 o'clock in the morning.

And they said that a lot of the questions were pointed and confrontational.

Here's five questions that are considered accusatory here.

About 30 minutes into the interview, a police detective asks Brenda what had been going on with Rob, why he'd moved out, and what they thought about, which is reasonable.

He's dead.

You're trying to divorce him.

He also, then the detective left the room for about 20 minutes.

When he returned, he asked Brenda if she had loved or hated her husband, because he probably went and talked to someone who said, I hate him, I hate him, I hate him, is what she's been saying.

And expressing a belief that she seemed to lack emotion.

And they said, did you hate him that much that you don't show any emotion about it?

And then he said, how do you feel about the fact that he's dead now?

Then the detectives pressed her on her affairs, her relationship with James, the increases in the life insurance policy.

This guy's got an $800,000 life insurance policy.

You're having an affair and just filed for divorce.

And you hate him.

And you hate him, hate him, hate him.

So, I mean, obviously we have to talk to you.

The detective then asked her about the incident with the brake lines, asking if Rob had suspected her of the cutting of the brake lines.

Near the end of the interview, the detective questioned her about her promiscuity and said, how many guys did Rob accuse you of having affairs with?

And then they asked her if she was currently having an affair.

At times during the investigation, she curled up in the fetal position, knees pulled up to her chest under the hospital

gown, wounded arm dressed and wrapped across her chest, back hunched over the chair in the interrogation room.

So she's

just shrinking.

Yeah.

That's not good.

Like a mental patient.

Well, when you shrink, that usually means you're trying to get away to protect yourself.

Yeah.

So it's Brenda was the only living eyewitness to the crime.

So, I mean, it was because she was complaining that they took her in there and asked her all these questions.

It's like, yeah, we're trying.

We got, got, according to you, we have two wild murderers out there who randomly shoot people.

We'd like to catch them.

You know what I mean?

You want your master's degree.

You know you can earn it, but life gets busy.

The packed schedule, the late nights, and then there's the unexpected.

American Public University was built for all of it.

With monthly starts and no set login times, APU's 40-plus flexible online master's programs are designed to move at the speed of life.

You bring the fire, we'll fuel the journey.

Get started today at apu.apus.edu.

That's very interesting here.

And

they said that it was very strange that she couldn't remember the words spoken by her attackers.

Any of them?

Not one.

Even a gist, something.

When you've got a gun around and one's been fired, you start remembering those things that happen in that moment.

You never forget them.

No, and then evidence at the crime scene is starting to be a little goofy, too, here.

There's no blood trail in the house, even though Brenda said that after being shot, she ran from the garage to grab the phone and check on her two children.

No blood trail, not even blood on the handle of the telephone.

Also, the police find out about the affair.

They

ask her about that and

everything like that.

Then they go, once they find out about the affair, they go search James's apartment.

They search his apartment and they seize a name change document

that's got stuff on it filled out, a black book containing a list of weapons and ammunition and two.22 caliber bullets, not the type used to shoot

in the murder here, but different type.

22 caliber, not the shotgun shells.

Then all of a sudden, Brenda and Rob's next-door neighbor, Dean Gigstad, pops up here.

Now, Dean says here, they found found some suspicious things in their home, and they call the police.

In their house.

In their house.

They had been on vacation the night of the shooting.

And by the way, Brenda has a key to their house.

Oh?

Okay.

The families would get together over time, and eventually he said, you know, he gave them a key to their house in case I'm out of town and something's going on.

Or, you know, it's good to have somebody extra have a key to your house just in case.

Also, if you lose your keys, you can go get a key from Brenda.

He said that Brenda had that key for years.

Now, they said they were on, the Gigstads were on a retirement trip to Colorado.

Before leaving town, they helped the Andrews break in a new hot tub.

Ew.

And yeah, I was like, that's gross.

That doesn't sound very churchy.

You guys are talking about hoochie mama.

You're all in a hot tub together.

Break in the hot tub.

That's not, that's a gross.

That sounds disgusting.

And listened as Rob talked about buying his wife a larger home.

Oh.

This is before he moved out.

So these people have been gone for a couple of months now.

Now, Gigstad says that he thinks the killer ran into his garage, climbed into the attic, and remained inside the house all night as the investigation went on next door.

Yeah, they said that the killer left 22-caliber bullets, a spent 16-gauge shotgun shell, and a broken footstool inside the house.

Gigstad, I think you're a big

investigator.

You've done a nice job.

Not bad.

So, yeah, then police go over.

They find evidence that someone had entered the Gigstad's attic through an open, an opening in a bedroom closet.

Yep.

They snuck up there.

A spent 16-gauge shotgun shell was found on the bedroom floor, and several.22-caliber rounds were found in the attic itself.

There were no signs of forced entry into the home, you know, like you needed a key.

So

the round,

they also had found a.22 caliber round in

Jana Larson's car,

James's daughter's car, which was one of the same brand as the three rounds found in the attic.

Uh-oh.

The 22-caliber bullet fired at Brenda was retrieved from the Andrews garage, appeared consistent with the bullets in these unfired rounds as well.

The rounds were capable of being fired from a firearm that he purchased two days before the murder as well.

And

they couldn't test it further because they never found that handgun.

That's the other thing.

He buys a gun, and then three days later, he's like, no idea where it is.

I'm real loosey-goosey with my handgun.

I just, you know, fuck it.

Yeah, I just bought it.

I don't know.

It's mine.

I can do with it what I want.

I just put it, you know, I threw it in the river, and you know, that's what you do.

You get a gun, you look at it, you shoot it a couple times, throw it in the river.

That's what people do.

What do you want from me?

Told that's how you dispose of them.

I don't know.

So the 16-gauge shotgun shell found in the Gigstad's home was one of the same brand as the 16-gauge shotgun shells found in the garage, the spent shell.

This is not good.

Ballistics comparisons showed similar markings, indicated they could have been fired from the same weapon.

Whether the shells were fired from

the 16-gauge shotgun that Rob had left at the home was impossible because that gun remains missing as well.

Doesn't look good.

Does not look good.

So Gigstad's got a theory of the crime.

And at this point, I'll take take Gigstad's theories because he seems smarter than anybody else investigating.

He's pretty good.

He's pretty good.

And he's like an old guy, too.

He says the killer approached Rob Andrew and shot him twice with a single-shot 16-gauge shotgun, perhaps the same gun that Rob's father had given him when he was a boy.

This is his like heirloom gun.

And the same one that Stump, the friend, told police that Brenda would not let, would not return to her husband.

Gigstad thinks after the firing the first shots, the killer had to eject the shell and load another after the first shot.

In the process, he lost track of the spent shell, which was resting on top of the minivan.

They say, from what we can gather, he made the 20 steps over here.

It's only 20 steps from the garage to his house.

In about 10 seconds, came through the garage and went up through a crawl space into the attic where he stayed through the night.

The next morning, he came down from the attic and stepped on this footstool.

It broke under his weight, and he stashed it under the bed in the master bedroom.

Fat bastard.

He's not either.

This must have been a weak, weak stool.

One of those suicide stools.

Yeah, shit ones.

But for the probably for a kid, one of those, like for a kid to brush their teeth or something, not meant for your ass coming out of a fucking attic.

Before leaving the attic, the killer abandoned the 22 bullets.

When it appeared safe, the killer peeked out of the windows, staring out at the detectives and technical advisors who remained near the Andrew home till about 4 a.m.

He said, I think he was probably waiting for everyone in the neighborhood to go to work the next morning.

And then he walked out.

But Gigstad's son arrived at the house at about 8 a.m.

unaware that anyone was in the house.

The killer must have heard the key turning in the lock and slipped into a bedroom closet to hide.

While inside the closet, he realized he hadn't reloaded the shotgun and fumbled to slide a shell into the chamber, and the spent shell dropped to the floor where it was found later.

This guy's a fucking homicide detective.

This is the neighbor.

This isn't the homicide theory.

He's got it nailed because it's here.

He must have done that.

Whoever did it is a complete dip shit.

Dip shit.

Probably not good at this and not

done during a lot of murders.

Maybe the first time.

So the gigstad said,

when I heard they found such a critical piece of evidence in the bedroom, I couldn't figure out why he'd leave it there, but this makes sense to me.

Gigstad's 26-year-old son walked into the bedroom and stood with his back to the closet.

He found the piece of nursery equipment he was looking for on the bed.

They said if it hadn't been there, this guy would have looked in the closet and he would have probably been shot, would have probably been killed.

Because Gigstad said when he reloaded that shotgun, I think he'd made up his mind that if anyone saw him, he

wouldn't be allowed to escape.

Also,

police never found the house key that he gave to Brenda either.

She just doesn't know where it is.

No idea where it is.

Well, that's not a good person to have your house key.

Nope.

It gets weirder.

November 26, 2001, there's the funeral for Rob.

So Brenda's got to show up with the kids and, you know,

put her least tight dress on and go there and look sad.

You know what I mean?

So Wade Burlson is the pastor who presided over the funeral.

He said he met with Brenda a few days before the funeral to plan the service, and he found her demeanor to be cold, flat, and unemotional.

Burlson said, I want to help the people who grieve at the funeral service to understand the person who has died.

I have a standard question that I always ask.

Would you tell me what it is that you will miss about your loved one?

So he can use that as a theme.

And they said, well, did she respond?

And Burlson said, she did not say anything to me.

She just stared at me.

I thought she didn't understand the question, so I asked it again.

Again, she said nothing.

So I prompted her.

I said, is there a character quality?

Is there a story to help me relate to others your love for Rob?

And then she said one word.

Nothing.

Oh, my God.

Nope.

Don't give a fuck.

So he said he officiated

this here.

And he said that they're waiting to start the funeral.

And that the time that it's supposed to be is here, but there's no Brenda and no kids.

Nothing.

We can't start it without the spouse.

So he said, in 40 years, this is the first time that the spouse who planned the funeral didn't show up for it.

I've done a lot of funerals, man.

This has never happened before.

You're not going to take the kids to bury their father?

Fuck, way do you hear where she's going?

So the funeral director whispered in this guy's ear, what do we do?

Yeah.

The fuck are we doing?

It's packed in here.

This is a famous thing, and a lot of people are here.

This is at the Crossroads Community or Crossings Community Church in Oklahoma City.

They said, Brenda and the two children aren't here, and we're already 15 minutes past the start time.

So Burlson said, start the service anyway.

Brenda's not coming.

Got to do it.

That's all there is to it.

So the funeral director said, I spoke with her on the phone 30 minutes ago.

She said she and the kids were on their way.

Burlson said, quote, no, she's not coming.

Brenda murdered her husband.

She's on the run.

That's what he said.

And the funeral director was like, holy shit.

And then went up and started the service.

That was that.

No, I think I put it together real quick.

I think I got this.

Now, on November 26th, 26th, this same day, someone attempted to use James's ATM card or credit card at a cash machine in Nuevo Laredo, Mexico.

Oh, what?

A border town here.

So neither James's car nor Brenda's minivan have been spotted despite a global manhunt by law enforcement and international media exposure on America's Most Wanted and Inside Edition.

They did two America's Most Wanted on this shit.

Wow.

Now, James, on Thanksgiving, he's last seen on Thanksgiving by anybody where he met with his attorney and ate turkey sandwiches in the guy's office.

What?

Yeah.

He went to meet with his attorney on Thanksgiving and ate turkey sandwiches and denied any connection to the crime whatsoever.

Now, Brenda's family...

Because they go, the press go to her family and they're like, she didn't show for the husband's funeral.

This isn't good.

Her family says, no, no, no, she's super innocent.

And that's, that's she's a Girl Scout leader and a homeroom mom and a Sunday school teacher.

She's incapable of violent crime.

She's been abducted.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

They said that, quote, this is from the family's attorney.

Quote, she may have, God forbid, met the same fate Rob did.

These people are back for her, man.

They didn't finish her off the first time.

Right.

The guys got away and they're coming back.

Yep.

So it's at this point where James's daughter, Jana, steps forward and tells the cops everything because they had searched her car, found the bullet, and they're like, well, you have a bullet that's making you look bad, so you better start fucking talking.

Well, she does telling me he's going to put a baby in somebody.

Yeah, there's that.

Now, she said that both James and Brenda told her they were leaving because they were anticipating being arrested for murder after the funeral.

They're already

together.

Yes, they were going to wait until they lowered him in the ground, and then they were going to slap the cups on her in front of her kids, she thought.

James called his daughter several times from Mexico and asked her to send them money.

Now, she cooperated with the FBI, the daughter, and local authorities to try to track them down instead.

So this daughter here testifies later on that in late October, a month before the murder, James told her that Brenda had asked him to murder Rob.

Yeah.

She said that, quote, he said, quote, you're never going to believe what that nuttier-than-a-fruitcake woman asked me to do.

He's heard how forgive me.

I'm going to put a baby in it.

He's just going to say shit out loud and think everybody will forget this without a problem.

Sure.

And then he told me that she asked him if he would kill her husband or if he knew someone that could do it.

You don't have to do it personally.

I mean, just, you know, direct, push me in the right direction.

Is there a store at the mall I can go to?

What are we talking about here?

So

the conversation occurred around the end of October, about the same time that James had asked his daughter to call Rob and tell him to drive to Norman, Oklahoma to pick up Brenda after the brake lines had been cut.

She was the one who, she was the female caller.

She called.

Yep.

That's absolutely right.

I guess the brakes were cut on the night of the 25th going into the 26th.

The next morning, James persuaded his daughter to call Rob from an untraceable phone.

It was a pay phone, and claimed that Brenda was at a hospital in Norman, Oklahoma and needed him immediately.

An unknown male also called Rob that morning to plea for this.

Rob's cell phone records showed that one call came from a payphone in Norman, near the daughter's workplace, by the way, like right by her job, and the other came from a payphone in South Oklahoma City.

So,

yeah, and we're talking about, we told you about the gun, the bullets that matched from her car to the attic.

And she says, the daughter Janice says that James

had her car on the day Rob was killed, and that the next time she drove the car, she saw the bullet on the floorboard.

Oh, boy.

Yeah, so he borrowed his daughter's car to commit a murder, apparently.

That's crazy.

She obtained, I guess, James, in the days following the murder, James obtained information over the internet, they find through his searches, about Argentina

because he told people that he heard that Argentina had no extradition agreement with the United States.

Idiot.

Yeah, he just like saw Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid and we're like, we can do that.

It's fine.

So

then after that, after the murder, Brenda and James asked the daughter here to help them create a document with the forged signature of Rob granting permission for his children to travel with Brenda out of the country.

So these people decided to plan a murder and then we'll plan the rest of it later?

What the fuck?

We'll figure it out later, but we'll get the other stuff.

We've got to get the insurance in place first.

That's the most important thing.

Insurance, murder, then we'll plan the rest.

Then fuck.

I hear.

It's lovely.

So Brenda also asked Jana to transfer funds from her bank account to Jana's own bank account so that Jana could wire them money after they left.

So she said, my bank account's going to be a no-go, so you need to, we'll do it from yours.

Now, inconsistencies in Brenda's story besides all of this, which is kind of, it's over.

Kind of everything, yeah.

But they need evidence besides one person.

So her superficial wound was caused by the.22 fired at close range, which was inconsistent with her claim that she had been shot at a good distance

because she was supposed to be across the garage from these people.

Expert testimony opines that the wound to her arm was not self-inflicted, but looked like part of a scheme to stage a scene.

to make it look like she's a victim.

So, you know, it's less suspicious.

James obviously purchased a.22-caliber handgun from a local gun shop two days before the murder.

Yeah, he borrowed his daughter's car, claiming he was going to have it serviced for her.

Just going to be a good dad.

I'm going to go change your oil, honey.

I'm a good dad.

You come back, oil's still gunky, but there's a bullet on the floor now.

Perfect.

The car, when it came back, the car had not been serviced, but a...

.22-caliber bullet was in her car.

In a conversation later that day, James told Jana never to repeat that Brenda had asked him to kill Rob, and he threatened to kill his own daughter if she did.

Okay.

Okay, don't tell your daughter about your sexual activities or your murders and never threaten to kill your daughter ever.

What kind of a, how could she, like, what kind of an outlook mentally can she have at this point?

My father threatened to kill me and used me in a murder.

And then told me gross sex stories.

Oh, God.

He also told her to throw away the 22 rounds she found in her car, which she didn't.

She turned it over to the cops.

Unbelievable.

A handwriting expert determined that Rob's signature on insurance papers that renamed Brenda as beneficiary after he had taken her off with the boss were doctored and they were forged signature.

Apparently, in the last year, Rob had began signing his name with a Jesus fish.

He put a Jesus fish on it at the end.

Yeah.

Everybody know what that is?

The little Jesus fish thing?

Yeah, that guy that used to be a magnet or a sticker that people used to put on their cars.

Absolutely.

But it was not on the papers that he claimed were genuine, that James claimed were genuine documents, but it was on other ones.

So they forgot to do it.

That's wild.

That's a big mess.

On the actual valid documents, Rob did change the beneficiary, but to Tricity and Parker with children with a fish.

How?

Now, Brenda is in Mexico.

They're all in Mexico.

Remember Nunley there?

The guy she had an affair.

He gets a call from her.

Oh, boy.

Well, she's in Mexico.

And he's like, whoa, this is fucking crazy.

Brenda was wanting his help in getting in touch with an attorney and her sister.

Yeah.

Remember all that free pussy I gave you?

Now

it's 10 years' worth.

Fucking loser.

So she said she had.

told him, this is his quote, she said she had an important or had important attorney papers in the children's luggage, a written confession.

This,

there is a written confession.

It is a written confession written by James.

It's in letter form to Tricity, the daughter, and it is basically explaining that he killed the father and that he's sorry.

Oh, my God.

Expert in handwriting verifies that James wrote this letter, by the way.

November 29th, 2001, Oklahoma County prosecutors file first-degree murder charges against

Brenda and James.

I mean, you have to here, obviously, here.

And

Rob's parents file for guardianship of the children at that point, too, which is smart.

An attorney for Brenda suggested she would return to surrender, but prosecutors and the FBI said, bullshit.

She's not coming back to surrender.

One of the agents said, we felt like they would be running out of money.

So they're either going to give up, get a job, which would be very difficult because they're south of the border, or seek help.

We felt like at this point, since there had been no spottings and no sightings, that they were probably seeking some help.

And they were.

They were getting Janet to send them money.

Now, November 30th, 2001, federal authorities now charge them with illegal flight to avoid prosecution as well.

They're still gone, though.

February 7th, 2002,

Brenda's attorney tries to trade a confession letter, because he found the confession letter, James's,

for a dismissal of the charges against Brenda.

Sure.

I'll give you this if you dismiss against my client, because in the letter it says Brenda had nothing to do with it.

That's part of it.

Your mom had nothing to do with it, I should say.

I mean, okay.

The district attorney said, fuck out of here with that shit.

One person was getting the money, and it wasn't him.

So she's more than involved.

February 28th, 2002, the authorities here, it's about 11:40 a.m.,

and it's a Thursday, and there's a guard here, last name of Huerta, who's working at the border.

Okay,

he spots in a minivan?

Two men and two children in a minivan, he finds.

Two men, okay.

Two men, and he finds a very sad little girl who's crying, eyes red, crying, crying, crying.

So he said, quote, anytime you see a situation like that, you check to make sure the children aren't being kidnapped.

Smart.

I'm happy they do that.

So the crying girl was Tricity.

Right.

And she,

he said he didn't know what the fuck this was.

He just was a crying little girl.

So he was like, oh, shit, I want to, you know, want to help this crying little girl.

So

two other people were in the van.

It is Tricity

there.

She's accompanied by a crying boy as well, as we know, and an older man.

The older man,

I'm sorry, so it's a boy, a girl, and an older man.

The older man is Jim Bolan.

That is Kim, Brenda's sister's husband.

Brenda's brother-in-law.

He's there.

So the Huerta searches the bags, and the contents of the girl's suitcase included a diary and an assortment of hand-drawn pictures of dogs.

So this guy, the border guy, said, I could tell she liked dogs.

You know, he said she had pictures and drawings everywhere.

And, you know, so there's that.

So that'll come in handy for him in a minute.

So the FBI and customs officials said the two children were in a 2000 white van driven by James Bolan, who's Brenda's brother-in-law.

So they said that his story didn't seem to add up.

They felt like his story was somewhat suspicious.

Why an uncle was coming up from Mexico with two young children makes no sense.

Right.

I want to know so much more.

He's not even the blood relative, you know what I mean?

And this isn't her minivan.

Hers is maroon.

Hers is maroon, yeah.

Whatever he was telling the customs officers sounded suspicious to them, and they opted to detain him for further investigation, which they said happens quite often.

So, in an attempt to calm the little girl down, this border guy popped up with some trading cards that customs officials have for children.

They're cards that feature photographs of the sniffer dogs.

Oh, those are photography.

Yeah, they're like trading cards of the dogs, basically.

This is Duke.

Isn't he adorable?

And it has details of what kind of dog they are and their histories and careers and all that kind of shit.

So this guy said, I went up to her and asked her if she liked dogs, and she nodded yes.

So I opened up a couple of packs of cards and started showing them to her.

She just started crying again.

So

eventually, this guy, because there's a million, if you've ever been to the border, there's all sorts of guys.

You don't just get stuck with one guy.

They're moving all around.

So he said he lost track of the girl after that because he moved on to help with other inspections.

Then about 20 minutes later, something else happens.

About 20 minutes after this happens, an automatic tag reader on the Hidalgo side of the bridge registers a hit on an Oklahoma license plate.

They had tag readers in 2001, which is shocking, honestly.

Well,

that's probably 9-11 did that.

Probably, yeah.

Customs inspectors soon confirmed the car's occupants were wanted by the FBI.

Who's in the car?

It is Brendan James.

There she is.

She left her fucking kids with her brother-in-law to try to get into the country.

Wow.

They called her a raven-haired woman in her 30s and a slim man in a blue shirt and sunglasses.

They offered no resistance.

Wow.

So the border crossing guard who was talking to the girl said he was called away from the fugitive's vehicle to help with another search.

When he returned, they had already been detained and the car had been abandoned.

They said the supervisor ordered him to put the fugitive's belongings back into the car.

He said, I picked up her purse.

Its zipper was broken, and when I picked it up, it broke completely.

I could see inside the purse, and I saw a picture in another compartment.

Just like that, I knew it was exactly the same girl.

The little boy, he looked worried too.

I knew it was them.

He saw pictures of them.

Yeah.

So he connected it right away.

He said he rushed to a supervisor to issue an all-points bulletin on that fucking Ford minivan.

Don't let it go, whatever you do.

But he couldn't remember the color of the minivan.

It's white.

Couldn't remember that.

He sees a million.

In his defense, he's seen like 150 cars since then.

So then they saw the van near the entrance to the immigration office.

The guys go inside and call out the children's names.

They turn around.

Hey!

Yes.

And so they say, ah, there we go.

Jim is, Bolin is taken to a holding cell and later released because he didn't really commit any crime, even though he did.

He's eating and abetting a lot.

So for about three hours, this guy said the children cried non-stop.

Customs inspectors gave them cookies, drinks, games.

Nothing helped.

They were hysterical.

Stop crying, fucker.

Stop crying, you little bastards.

But they were, I mean, their dad's dead.

Their fucking mother isn't even with them.

They're in a foreign country.

Like, everything's changed.

They don't have their puppy with them.

So

this guy said they didn't respond to anything until they saw their mom.

About 4:30 p.m., the FBI took custody of the fugitives and the children.

I just pictured the kids in cuffs with their heads down walking away, too.

Kirk walked with a bag over their head.

Yeah, with like a, I was going to say, with a jacket going over their face.

So they're going to be be incarcerated, the adults are, in Hidalgo County Jail in Edinburgh, Texas.

And

the children would be with

Rob's parents.

The guy who found them said he was proud that he found the children, but he says he remains haunted by one of the details, a detail that he learned from Tricity in the moments he spent searching her luggage.

He said, when I was going through her journal, the little girl,

when I was going through the little girl's stuff, I saw her journal.

She had written something to her best friend about her new dog in no in november

i don't remember exactly what it said but it was the uh but that was the last time she wrote before all this happened she never wrote in it again just like she was happy yeah yeah now brenda's in jail yeah

um in jail she comes in contact with teresa sullivan who's a federal inmate in at the oklahoma county jail wants out so bad she really wants out she really would love a shortened sentence here

she tells the cops that Brenda told her she and James killed her husband for the money, the kids, and each other.

And Brenda also told her that James shot her in the arm to make it look like she was a victim.

So, tomorrow I go home?

Maybe tomorrow.

By the way, if you're going to stage something, because we've had this many times, if you're going to stage something, you have to have a life-threatening wound.

You better fucking take a chance.

You got to say, shoot me on the side of the chest where my heart isn't,

and fingers crossed because

holy shit.

Otherwise,

nobody nobody buys it.

So

anyway,

she is called by Brenda's people a known snitch.

She said in the jail, she's known as the mouth of the south to Sullivan.

Get over there and talk to her.

That's amazing.

And they also claim that Sullivan and Brenda could not have contacted each other either verbally or through notes, and that there were newspapers available to the inmates in the pod, so Sullivan could have learned the facts of the case through news reports.

Okay.

So, discovery of the testimony isn't going to be presented later on, anyway.

Defense here later on said that defense counsel was allowed to produce the testimony of Angela Burke, who testified that later on that Sullivan is a known snitch and that she communicated to Sullivan through cell doors and that she testified that inmates were sometimes out in the pod together.

September 10th, 2002, Brenda and James are ordered to go on trial for for first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder.

February 28th, 2003, they go their separate ways.

The judge grants a severance of their trial, so they will have separate trials.

Absolutely.

So Brenda also wants a change of venue.

She says there's been extensive coverage around here.

People are going to be familiar with this, and this is crazy.

The judge said this.

He considered the evidence and then denied the motion, saying, I don't think we're going to know whether unbiased jurors can be seated until such time as we bring in a large panel, put them up in the jury box, and voider them.

It's unfortunate, but that's actually the only way that you can make that determination.

You can't just say, people must know about it, so never mind.

Let's ask them.

April 1st, 2003, Brob's parents are granted guardianship pending the outcome of Brenda's trial.

So it'll become permanent if she's convicted and not if it's not.

If she's not.

May 27, 2003 james's confession letter is made public now oh

he takes full responsibility for the planning and implement implementation of the murder he describes how he planned the crime and how he enlisted a friend to help he says that after his friend shot rob and he shot brenda they ran and hid in the house next door He says that he admitted his involvement in the murder to Brenda only while they were on their trip to Mexico.

She was totally innocent.

Totally innocent.

She said that he said that Brenda was shocked, angry, and hurt by his actions and that she just couldn't understand why he would do it.

But this is in a confession letter to the daughter to try to make her feel better about this.

So, you know what I mean?

It's crazy.

So this is made public in a motion filed by Brenda's attorneys asking that the charges against her be dismissed.

Well, all cleared up now.

Boy, oh, boy.

So another witness regards to the letter from James introduced to trial stated that he and another assailant were responsible and Brenda was not involved.

He said that he shot Brenda.

That's what's interesting too.

We know you shot Brenda.

So that's interesting.

And also,

Brendik provides an affidavit from James Bolan, the guy who got caught with the kids in Mexico, who says that James told him the same story when he met him in Mexico just days prior to their arrest.

Yeah, that's his story now.

He's not going to tell this.

He's not going to change it now.

He's got to stick with it.

So, next up, right after this, someone confesses to the murder, but it's not James R.

Brenda.

No?

No.

It's another inmate.

It's a guy named

shit.

Zaitan Tyrone Jake Wood.

Yeah.

And this guy is in jail for murder.

And he wrote a letter saying, I am writing this letter to you to confess to a murder that I committed on or around November 20th, 2001.

He writes this to the district attorney.

The murder victim's name is Robert Andrew.

Okay.

So he's being, this guy, Wood, is being held in the Oklahoma County jail, and his brother also is there.

They're waiting for trial in the death and robbery of a Montana man at an Oklahoma City motel.

And they're seeking the death penalty on these two.

Most of what he writes about in his three-page handwritten letter, the problem is all of this shit's been published in the newspaper.

So he could have just read newspapers and known this.

He also

doesn't mention the second assailant at all.

He says he does say he climbed through a window next door and hid in the attic, but Dean Gigstad has already said this in multiple articles.

They talk about this all the time in these newspapers.

And he said that the house was secure when he left and couldn't find signs of forced entry.

So unless this guy found a way to get a key also,

unless he found a key on fucking Brenda's keychain and decided it must be for the next door house.

Yeah.

No.

Hang on to this one for a minute.

So they don't believe him at all.

They don't know what the fuck he's doing because then after that, he starts confessing to other murders that they know he didn't commit.

Murders that other people committed on video.

He's like, I did that one too.

They're like, no, you didn't.

I think maybe he's trying to draw this out and maybe get a deal.

September 2003.

Here is James's trial.

His trial is first.

He wants a change of venue also, and there are some stats behind why he wants this.

Apparently, he says 1,527 stories aired on Oklahoma City's four major television networks from the day of the murder until January 4th, 2003.

According to Nielsen Media Research, these 1,527 stories reached a cumulative audience of 81,997,314 people.

That's gross impressions.

That's not how many people that is.

Use the Nielsen ratings for this.

Okay.

That's, yeah, 81 million.

Fucking a third of the country doesn't have access to local Oklahoma City news channels.

They just don't.

So in a telephone

poll of 303 Oklahoma County residents conducted in September and October of 2002,

87% had heard of the murder.

And of these

people here,

93% had heard of the case through the media, out of the people who had heard of it.

Between November 21st, 2001 and the day of the murder, which is the day of the murder, and October 29, 2002, 74 articles appeared in the Daily Oklahoma newspaper, and 40 of those articles were on the front page.

This was really covered, man.

It was

Sunday school teacher massacre and sex and Sunday school and all this shit.

It's, of course.

They also said nationally the story about the murder appeared in the

October 2nd, 2002 edition of People's Magazine, or People Magazine, twice on America's Most Wanted and twice on Primetime Thursday.

So they said throughout the pleadings, James's counsel incorrectly reports this number as 15,027.

This number includes multiple times a story may have appeared on a single day or even in a single broadcast.

For example, on November 27th, a week after the murder, a total of 20 stories aired.

KFOR ran two stories at 5 a.m., two stories at 6 a.m., one at noon, one at 6.

They go down all of this.

So the court ruled that most of the media stuff concentrated on Brenda.

So don't worry about it.

You're fine.

So yeah, they said Brenda had a lot of, you know, a lot of people talking about her.

She's the wife, not you.

So the state's evidence, they have to demonstrate more than just motive.

Obviously, there's motive, but motive isn't everything.

You have to have some kind of evidence.

They do find a bunch of physical evidence, though.

The bullets, the shotgun shells, forged documents, which linked James to the murder and a pre-existing plan to get away with it, talking about Mexico and everything like that.

That all happened before the murder.

The testimony of his daughter,

why would she lie to put him away?

His own daughter helped to show that James and Brenda planned to harm Andrew for some time and that the failure of the first attempt only emboldened them, meaning the break lines.

The daughter also related a number of incriminating statements from both Brenda and James.

The daughter may not have been an eyewitness to the murder itself, but she was certainly an eyewitness to many overt acts of the two co-conspirators and to their preparations for flight after the murder.

The state also presented the letter written by James from jail, wherein he admittedly, he admitted complicity in the murder, but attempted to exculpate Brenda.

Both parties rejected the letter as an accurate version of what happened, although for different reasons.

While the letter may have borne some relevance to show his complicity, it was perhaps more relevant to show how jealousy and greed can fuck everything up here, is what they say in there.

Also, the numerous other witnesses who spoke with and observed Rob and Brenda and James as their relationship with one another evolved.

The evidence against James is largely circumstantial, but I mean, that's not that unusual, obviously.

But there's a shitload of circumstantial.

I mean, it's a

physical, too, with the

bullets.

It's not guaranteed bullets.

No, there's no forensics, but that's because he did such a great job of getting rid of the gun.

He just did a good, a fine job of it.

Now, the other guy, remember the Wood guy who confessed to it in jail?

He was

awaiting trial on unrelated charges of first-degree capital murder.

He happened to be housed in the same pot of the county jail as James.

He just heard about it.

The letters were handwritten, but practically identical.

The one he wrote, he wrote two different ones.

It appeared that one had been copied verbatim from the other or that they had both been copied from another source.

While the letters were detailed, they were perhaps

too detailed and appearing to parrot certain key features of the state's case.

So, yeah, there's all of this shit, and they had publicly done everything, so that's all public.

September 15th, 2003 is the verdict for James.

Uh-oh.

Jury deliberates for two and a half hours,

and they find him guilty of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder.

Oh, boy.

Okay, sentencing comes around here.

October of 2003.

Here it comes.

You, sir, may fuck off death penalty.

Oh, James.

Oh, shit.

Yeah, he got death penaltied on that one.

Wow.

Yeah, that's that.

So, anyway, his lawyer said Mr.

Pavitt has great Christian faith.

He believes that everything happens for a reason and that God is directing his life.

This isn't the first time an innocent man's been convicted and sentenced to death in Oklahoma County.

So we'll work on that.

Now,

June, July, 2004, another Tupac song, Brenda Had a Trial.

That's on another album.

Brenda killed her baby, and now she's on trial for it.

It's a real tragic thing here.

Call you a bitch.

That's a Tupac lyric, by the way.

Not everyone's going to know that.

That's what I'm saying.

People are going to be like, that's Jimmy saying that.

No, that's Tupac saying that in 1992.

Don't worry about it.

So, Brenda's trial here.

Oh, man.

They talk about her lawyer says it's really going to be hard to get a jury.

That is the kind of thing that has caused people to change, to do change of venue motions.

It's amazing how often something happens, can happen in a town and no one knows about it.

This case was a big deal in town and may have polluted the potential jury pool to the sense that everyone knows about it.

They tell her to fucking pound sand, but pound sand here, not away from us, because we're doing it here.

The openings here, the prosecution in his opening statement told the jury Brenda had extracurricular activities.

She liked to cheat on Rob.

This is a quote, by the way.

Throughout the marriage, Brenda had a boyfriend on the side.

They go on to talk about how she's accused of making passes at teenagers who are working on her deck and all of that shit.

Another thing they really tout here, oh my goodness, this really means she's guilty is is the book the cops found in the second drawer of the nightstand next to her bed.

What is it?

Think about it.

It's dark, man.

Dirty, dark.

203 Ways to Drive a Man Wild in Bed by Olivia St.

Clair.

So she's dirty.

It's a long Cosmo article, basically.

You know what I mean?

That's not, you can sell that on the fucking...

at a checkout line at the grocery store.

That seems like a lot.

Yeah,

there's an old joke about that.

203.

Yeah, there's an old joke about, it's like a hacky stand-up joke from like the 80s about, yeah, Cosmo, 100 ways to satisfy your man.

I can think of one.

That's all you need, lady.

I can't remember whose it is, but it's some bullshit in the early 90s.

Something is incredible.

I kind of want to read that.

Tickle of Steet?

What is it?

It's out.

That's what I mean.

There's going to be ones that are probably not like that.

Smack you.

Yeah.

Now, the prosecutors put a lot of emphasis on this book and her affairs and all this type of shit.

Meanwhile, all they need to concentrate is altered insurance policy.

Bingo.

Period.

Period.

To me.

That's it.

Altered insurance policy.

You ran away to Mexico.

Fucking case closed.

No fish.

You're in Mexico?

Come on, lady.

Yeah, give me a goddamn break.

So

also, they talk about the Sullivan, probably the mouth of the south snitch there.

She was not facing state charges.

She testified that she did not expect any benefit from testifying because she's testifying in a state trial while being held by federal authorities.

She just happened to be held at the county jail.

She said she did not seek out authorities with which to share her story.

She, as well as other incarcerated inmates in the county jail with Brenda, were contacted to determine whether they had information.

The cops went there and talked to everybody around her and said, is she talking?

So there's that.

Anyway, they do give the instruction that she's a jailhouse informant and take that to the jury.

Take that as what you will here.

So she's fighting the shotgun evidence here.

Brenda's claim is

basically she's got different things here.

They start with testimony concerning Rob's 16-gauge shotgun.

The fact that Rob owned a 16-gauge shotgun was not in dispute.

The fact that he was killed by a 16-gauge shotgun, also undisputed.

The fact that is significant, given that's significant, considering the fact that a 16-gauge shotgun is less common than a 12 or a 20.

Right.

So he said the fact that his shotgun was in the house and now it's not and the murder weapon was that and it's never been recovered, pretty big coincidence.

Yeah, it's a pretty big deal.

Pretty big deal.

The statements here, they talk about, revolve around Rob's desires and expressed to witness Ron Stump to get his shotgun out of the marital home after Brenda had changed the locks and security codes on him.

Rob told Ron that Brenda would not let him have the shotgun.

The statement was made a week prior to the murder.

However, the statement was introduced to show that Rob did not have the shotgun, inferring that it was still in Brenda's control.

She also,

they're trying to get hearsay.

They're saying something's hearsay and they don't want it in.

Rob's statement to Ron that Brenda finally found someone to kill him after the break line thing.

And it was James.

He said too.

It was James Pavot guy.

The statement was made just shortly after Rob had moved out of the house.

Okay, it's before the break lines.

The statement's clearly a statement showing Rob's state of mind at the time.

And the court has ruled such antecedent declarations by a decedent are admissible in a homicide case to show the decedent's state of mind toward the defendant or to supply motive for the killing.

Those reasons only, and it falls into that exception range.

Testimony showing ill-feeling, threats, or similar conduct by one spouse toward another in a marital homicide case is relevant, and statements by the deceased expressing fear of a spouse are admissible under the state of mind exception to the hearsay rule.

That's some legal shit for you people out there.

We give you all sorts of shit here.

We give you crazy stories.

We give you Groundhog for breakfast.

We give you dick jokes, but we also give you insanely detailed legal fucking nuances about

antecedent.

Crazy.

Our show is fucking weird, Jimmy.

It's a weird show.

It's very specific.

We've had a lot of lawyers tell us nobody gets into the legal shit like we do and they love it and all that stuff.

And then people are like, nobody gets into the crazy fucking trash shit like you guys.

What weird things there.

So also the statements to insurance people, Rob's belief that Brenda and James tried to kill him by cutting the brake lines to his car.

Those are...

Those that would be inadmissible, but the tape statements were introduced through prudential employees about that.

So after the evidence was introduced to show Rob's state of mind, his fear of Brenda and the motive for the killing, the insurance money, that's what they do there, the conversations Rob had with the insurance company were introduced to show why Brenda had motive to kill Rob.

He was trying to keep Brenda from being the primary beneficiary to his life insurance.

The conversation shows why he would change the beneficiary to his brother.

The phone calls were also introduced to show why the insurance company would not change the beneficiary over the phone at Brenda's request, increasing her anger and resentment of Rob.

She tried to change it back on her own.

You can't change the fucking thing on somebody else's after they took you off of it.

That's crazy.

Wow.

One of Brenda's main complaints, there's a

testimony of attorney Craig Box.

Rob Andrew hired Box to represent him in the divorce proceedings.

Box testified that Andrew told him about a series of calls from Brenda and James, which led him to believe that they were responsible for the break line incident attempts on his life.

Meaning, the I read it in the newspaper and all that kind of shit here.

So the statements supported the conspiracy charge by showing when an agreement may have been consummated.

They also support the theory that the motive for murder was for insurance money.

So

they also talk about the tape recordings of James trying to change the ownership of the insurance policy with Prudential, his threats toward Rob, and and statements he made concerning Brenda's request that he kill Rob were all properly admitted.

The same can be said of other statements Rob made to others about the trouble he was having changing the beneficiary of the policy, which he was telling everybody.

They had people testified.

Yeah, he told me he was trying.

They said the remainder of the statements Rob made to others about being kicked out of the house, Brenda hiding money, Rob's statement regarding Brenda's belief that he was having a homosexual affair.

Oh, come on.

You must be gay because I fuck all your friends.

That makes sense.

His statements about Brenda's affair with Nunley and Rob's statements regarding the changing of the locks and Brenda's refusal to let him see the children, all of that there was also let in.

Now, Rick Nunley, he testifies

saying Brenda called me from jail when she was arrested, not only from Mexico, but from fucking jail, too.

Jesus Christ, imagine that.

Now, evidence of their sexual affair was limited to one question.

Did you have a sexual affair?

Yes.

That was it.

The evidence of the sexual affair between them was remote.

Its significance was a minimal part of the relationship for this purpose.

James Higgins here testifies also because she's told Nunley and James Higgins that she hates Rob and she wishes he was dead.

So that's interesting.

So

they're basically trying to show that James was just the latest guy that she got in here and told that she hated her husband.

She was basically just looking for a guy who would eventually kill her husband, basically.

So the evidence of her affairs proved motive and intent, and that's how that went.

Now, Brenda argues that her statements to police were the result of custodial interrogation.

Thus, their introduction was unconstitutional because she had not been advised of her Miranda rights.

Oh.

Because they say she wasn't a suspect.

And they make a point to tell her she's not a suspect, but then they start asking suspect questions and they still didn't Mirandize her.

Luckily for her, luckily for the prosecution, she didn't say shit to have it be.

That's not the crux of their case.

She didn't really say much anyway.

She said stuff she had already told them 10 times.

So

here's more stuff that doesn't look great.

Other evidence included testimony that Brenda had come on to, a neighbor said that Brenda had come on to

their two sons, adult sons, when they were building a deck.

Not the kids.

This is the adults now.

Somebody's testimony that she was dressed provocatively.

This This is David Ostro.

This is the Hoochie quote guy

when they went out to dinner together.

This was only six to eight weeks before the murder, the Hoochie comment there.

So an inappropriate talk about a trip to Mexico as well.

She was talking about Mexico.

Ron Stump's testimony that Brenda changed her hair color after learning what color Ron liked and that

what color he himself liked, like her husband's best friend.

And David Head's testimony about Brenda threatening to kill him.

That's the plumber.

Additional evidence included the guy, the funeral guy, the pastor, the testimony about Brenda's demeanor while making the funeral arrangements and then not showing up for the funeral.

Also, one of her friends talking about Brenda bragging about hiding money.

Testimony regarding Brenda's attempt to influence the children with a puppy.

She got it two days.

She's like, your dad's going to be dead.

You're going to need some

Jenna.

Hang on to that for later.

You're going to need that in about two days.

Trust me.

Jenna Larson's testimony that she told her father, James, that she thought Brenda lied when she told him she had not slept with any other men other than her husband and James.

Like recently, obviously in the past.

Testimony that James told his daughter that the Andrew children were all trained and would not tell of the affair between he and Brenda.

She made her kids fucking

keep the secret.

That's gross, man.

Evidence consisting of a tape recording of conversations between Brenda and Rob

recorded the days before the murder.

These recordings included conversations between Tricity and Rob.

Brenda next also they talk about evidence that the prosecution introduces two

Agatha Christie mystery books that Brenda had.

That's fantastic.

Which ones?

In Mexico with her, like entitled Murder is Easy

and Sparkling Cyanide.

I would say it's not very easy at all for you.

Yeah,

you lying bitch, Agatha Christie.

You lied to me.

You blew it.

Also, there's a birthday card from James to Brenda.

Photographs of Brenda, James, and the children taken on a trip.

while on a trip to Six Flags Over Texas.

Wow.

They're supposed to stop there.

Evidence of James' infatuation with Brenda and finally the contents of Brenda's luggage, including her thong underwear.

They're going to make a big deal out of that shit.

Because this is 2001, so Cisco is singing that shit right now.

That shit is out there.

The ladies are putting thongs on.

Fucking UTIs be damned.

Let's do it.

All of this evidence, or yeast infections, actually, all this evidence was introduced to show that the extent and the nature of the relationship between James and Brenda and their intentions of fleeing to Mexico, you know, not as a grieving widow, but as a free fugitive living large on a Mexico beach with 800 grand.

Plenty of money there.

That'll stretch in Mexico.

Oh, yeah, you can make that work for a long time there.

Now,

the prosecutor, Galen Geiger.

Yes.

Gayland Geiger, like a Geiger counter, hauling a suitcase toward the jury box from which he took out a pair of the thong underwear, waved them in front of the jury.

I was just going to say, he spun them around like her coming home from the grocery store,

and then said, this thong is what we found in the suitcase.

It's been introduced into evidence.

The grieving widow packs this to run off with her boyfriend.

The grieving widow packs this and pulls out a black thong and a red thong to go sleep in a hotel room with her children and her boyfriend.

The grieving widow packs this this and pulls out a lacy bra

in her appropriate act of grief.

Now, you still need bras and underwear, no matter how sad you are.

Sorry, your old lady's so uptight, Galen.

You get what I'm saying?

She's not wearing fucking bloomers, but you know, what do we want here?

Sorry, she's a fucking party.

Not only did the prosecution suggest that Brenda was a sex-crazed adulteress, they also argued that Brenda was a bad mother who's who, you know, if you convicted her and executed her, would benefit her children if you got rid of her.

They said, would a good mother allow her children to read murder mysteries with their father laying in his grave?

Would a good mother take them out of school and have them eat tuna fish and wash dishes in a pot and live on the beach?

Live like a beach hobo?

I mean, I guess.

So at this point,

he then says two words here that are going to come back to haunt the prosecution later.

Uh-oh.

He calls her a, quote, slut puppy.

I don't know what that even is.

A slut puppy.

Is that a play on slush puppy?

I don't know what he's doing.

You whore kitten.

Yeah.

You skank duckling bitch.

I'm trying to say sick puppy, but also slut puppy.

Slut puppy.

I don't know.

That sounds great.

That is wild.

Is it because she got him a puppy and she's a slut?

i don't know i don't know what he's doing is that is that puppy a slut puppy that's what you buy someone to dirty i don't know what that is i don't think the word slut should probably come up in the trial of a slut puppy i don't think that should come up at all here that's probably beside the fact i would say how about a loose nice woman

yeah about a friendly gal

Now, during deliberations here,

there's a problem, a problem that causes the defense attorney to ask for a mistrial because the jury had to leave and go sit outside on the sidewalk for a little while because there's a gas leak and an evacuation of the courtroom during deliberations.

The jury had been deliberating more than an hour when the work crew outside hit a three-inch natural gas line near the northwest part of the courthouse.

Oh my gosh.

That's a big one.

That's a biggie there.

That's a big fucking line.

The jury was taken across the street on the southeast side of the building under guard by Oklahoma County Sheriff's deputies.

They weren't just, they didn't say go to Subway and mingle.

They just, you know, the leak was stopped, and the jury resumed its work after about 15 minutes.

And they said, Miss, we should have a mistrial for that.

They had to go outside.

They had to go outside.

It's a seven-man, five-woman jury, and they deliberate

for about seven hours over two days

before they come to a verdict here.

They find her guilty of murder and conspiracy.

Now, in sentencing, they're asking for the death penalty.

Really?

And they say she deserves the death penalty

for things that are...

The problem is some of the arguments are for things that aren't counted as aggravating circumstances.

You have to, the only way things you can present are...

Things that are aggravators.

You can't just say they're kind of a dick, so you should kill them.

That's clouding the issue at that point.

So they argued that, quote, she killed Rob because she wanted the money.

She wanted the custody of the children.

The prosecutor also said that she deserved the death penalty for the way she treated Rob after he had forgiven her time and time again.

Now, there's no objection from the defense for any of this shit.

So that makes sense.

The prosecution

They're going to claim that the

prosecution was intentionally misleading the jury by pointing out to them that Tricity Andrew did not beg for her mother's life.

She went on the stand.

Did she say, please don't kill my mother during sentencing?

No.

So, yeah, the defense counsel had planned and had informed the court that he intended to ask Tricity if she wanted her mother to get the death penalty.

But then the defense attorney never asked that question, possibly due to the fact that Tricity was having an emotional time on the stand and it was really kind of beating on her too much here.

So

then they also attacked the fact that the defense used Brenda's 15-year-old niece to ask to spare Brenda's life

and then told the jury, would you put your 15-year-old niece on the stand to do that?

I wouldn't.

So, yeah, the defense calls these low blows

here.

Now,

Brenda here, in her defense here, she

the prosecutor, I'm sorry, the prosecutor says Rob Andrews' parents would like to visit him in prison.

The only place they can visit him is in a grave.

Brenda has many relatives who would visit her in prison if given the opportunity.

So you should kill her, basically.

The defense attorney said, quote, you have got children who have already lost their father, and now the only parent they have left is mommy now.

I am assuming them or some family member would make the argument to the jury.

Why deprive the children with the right to have at least one parent, even though she's in prison?

Why leave them parentless?

It's just pointless.

Also, mitigating evidence as follows.

She had no history of prior criminal activity, has never committed acts of violence in the past, was considered

a good mother who loves her children very much.

The death penalty would deprive Tristan and Parker of their only living parent.

She has a family who loves and values her life.

She has many relatives who would visit her in prison if given the opportunity, was a kind, giving neighbor and friend, has an education and might be able to help other inmates, was a dedicated employee who worked hard, had been a model inmate since being incarcerated in county jail, and has always been active in school and church activities.

Doesn't mean she didn't help.

So,

help, she said, shoot me in the arm.

So she says, quote, I plan to fight for my freedom to the end, and the end is neither execution nor imprisonment.

It is the complete vindication of my name.

God knows my heart, and he will deliver me out of this situation.

And the judge says, you, ma'am, pay fuck off death penalty.

What?

Keep on keeping on.

Wow.

Yeah, they gave her the jury record.

This is the jury recommends it, and then the judge gives it.

So the jury voted for death for her, which is rare.

She's very

literally the only woman on Oklahoma death row.

Is that right?

Yep, only one, just her.

So

she says, quote, the verdict which sentenced me to the death penalty is an egregious miscarriage of justice.

I'm an innocent woman wrongfully convicted.

That's right.

She said, I love my children dearly, and I'm a loving and gentle and compassionate mother.

I noticed the supposed God-fearing people who celebrated my death sentence, and I see that as human sickness.

Oh, you're judging people morally now.

Shut up.

You're a murderer.

I agree with you, but I never killed anybody.

So, you know what I'm saying?

I can say that.

You can't.

You're dancing on my grave.

Well, I mean,

you fucked a man in his.

Yeah, that's the point.

And tried to get money for it.

So the district attorney said that he wasn't surprised by Brenda's comments.

The district attorney said, Ms.

Andrew has shown absolutely no remorse for her criminal actions from day one.

It certainly doesn't surprise me that she continues to show no remorse after being found guilty of murder.

And the other DA, Fern Smith, said the fact that she said the jury was wrong in what they did, that it wasn't based on the evidence, that her conviction was egregious, was disrespectful to the court and the jury.

Now, she is the only person on death row, which means she's in solitary.

There's nobody else there.

It's just her.

Holy shit.

She's the only one sitting there.

Yeah.

That's it.

So, Brenda appeals, obviously,

based on, I'm just going to go over the factors.

I'm not going to go over what they are.

Change of venue.

She said they refused to do that.

Hearsay evidence.

That's why I was saying that hearsay exception before.

That's the hearsay evidence.

The brake lines cut.

Yeah.

Well, she said that James asked his daughter to call Rob to tell him that he needed to come to Norman to pick Brenda up at the hospital.

It's an obvious attempt to get Rob to drive some distance with faulty brake lines.

Brenda claims there was insufficient evidence linking her to this incident.

So they also talk about her other affairs.

She cites the Agatha Christie thing.

Saying that was

inflammatory.

The main thing, though, is the thong

and the slut puppy.

That's the big one.

Slut puppy's tough.

That's a tough one here.

Also saying newly discovered evidence

is Teresa.

It has nothing to do with the actual murder.

Teresa Sullivan, the one who said she wasn't getting anything, the amount of the south here, actually.

She got a new sentence after that and allowed her to be released five months after testifying, even though she had 22 months left on her sentence.

The sentence also, after reviewing the entire record, who's trying to get the sentence,

she's saying

she was sentenced to death because of an arbitrary factor, passion, or prejudice.

Or prejudice, based on slut puppy, and things like that.

So they find

the Supreme Court or the court here says, we find that there was sufficient evidence to support

the finding of statutory aggravating circumstances as of a train, heinous, atrocious, or cruel.

Yeah.

Fuck off, in other words.

Okay.

No.

2017,

the James is appealing, and a three-judge panel in a two-to-one ruling overturn his death sentence.

Really?

On the grounds the state failed to prove the shooting, death of Rob was especially heinous, atrocious, or cruel.

I think that's in the eye of the beholder, man.

Yeah.

Oh, boy, was murdered.

What's not cruel about that?

2019, though, the full 10th Circuit Court of Appeals voted 10 to 3 to overturn the three-judge panel and put his ass back on death row.

10 to 3.

That's much bigger.

Much bigger.

February 2020, Brenda's moved to Genpop,

where, according to her lawyers, she's doing great.

She got a job.

She joined a quilting circle.

Oh, boy.

Oh, boy.

And she writes slut puppy on a big blanket.

In January, two days after her attorneys filed the writ with the Supreme Court, she was returned to solitary, given no reason.

They said, we were going to let you fuck around.

2023, Brenda's federal appeals court here thing.

On federal appeals court, the judges uphold her ruling despite the defense claiming an unfair trial and irrelevant information about her sex life and gender stereotypes.

June 11th, 2024, supposed to be James's execution day,

but Oklahoma Attorney General Gentner Genter Gentner Drummond has requested that several of the upcoming scheduled executions be rescheduled to allow more time between them.

They're currently understaffed and preparing for an execution is time-intensive.

So

he hasn't received a new execution date yet.

So he's just being delayed.

That's the judges or the

mayor, the governor?

The governor's first name is Getner?

The Attorney General, Oklahoma Attorney General, G-E-N-T-N-E-R.

Getner.

Gross.

Very German, I think that is.

Finally, January 22nd, 2025.

Yeah.

The Supreme Court of the United States.

Big one.

Yes, according to this decision, says that the prosecution in Brenda's case, quote, elicited testimony about Andrew's sexual partners reaching back two decades about the outfits she wore to dinner or during grocery runs, about the underwear she packed for vacation, and about how often she had sex in her car.

The prosecutor also displayed her thong underwear to jurors while urging them to convict her of capital murder and calling her a slut puppy.

Not good.

They said that the argument here, they say this violated Payne v.

Tennessee, a 1991 decision in which the Supreme Court made clear that the due process clause provides relief when evidence is introduced that is so unduly prejudicial that it renders the trial fundamentally unfair.

A 10th Circuit Court of Appeals decided that that Payne exception did not qualify as clearly established precedent, but the Supreme Court disagrees and said that was wrong.

Due process protects defendants from the introduction of evidence so prejudicial as to affect the fundamental fairness of their trials.

The U.S.

Supreme Court grants her relief

and

quashes her death sentence.

So it commutes it?

I think they have to do either a re-sentence or a commution here.

We're not sure.

This just happened like two months ago.

The court ordered the Federal Appeals Court to assess whether the irrelevant evidence about her demeanor as a woman deprived her of a fundamentally fair trial.

That was a seven to two decision, by the way, on that one.

I'll give you a guess of one of the dissenters.

I'll give you one hint.

Brenda probably had a pube on her Coke can at the end of it there.

There is a site, savebrendaandrew.org.

There's all these save Brenda Andrews.

Really?

This has become a cause for, like,

if you look at the narrative now, they completely take out of it that she's a murderer.

Yeah.

Because, like, they didn't call James a slut puppy, but James is still on death row because he fucking killed somebody.

Yeah.

They're acting like now.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's a lot, which neither do I, but there's a lot of, a lot of sites and a lot of people who think that she's, should be just innocent because they called her a slut in court.

It's like they were going to, yeah, they're going to convict her whether she was a slut or not.

They're going to convict her based on the evidence.

That had nothing to do with it.

Now, it probably was inflammatory, Totin, though, to an Oklahoma city jury, to all that.

It could have very well been inflammatory.

At least they think so.

So either way, I don't think she's getting out anytime soon.

I mean, I think she 100% did it.

Yeah.

Oh, she absolutely did it.

Yeah.

So there you go, everybody.

There is, we'll say, Enid, Oklahoma, even though it's not.

There you go.

Hopefully.

I guess if you're going to murder somebody, just blow everybody, and then it gets washed.

Yeah, well,

only if they bring it up, though.

Otherwise, you just got a bad taste in your mouth for no reason.

If you enjoy the show, tell everyone about it.

Get on whatever app you're on.

Please give us five stars.

It helps so fucking much.

It takes 20 seconds.

It takes so long to put these shows together.

So please, please do that.

Also, head over to shutupandgivemeurder.com.

Tickets for live shows, baby.

420 virtual live show Saturday, April 19th, just like a regular live show, except you're in your living room.

We got costumes, weed, the screen, pictures, everything.

Can't wait for it.

Also, tickets to the regular live shows.

We have May in Chicago.

Get your tickets right this goddamn instant for that one.

Please, St.

Louis is sold out the night before, so don't find yourself in the same place that many St.

Louisians, St.

Louisans, are finding themselves.

So do that.

Get in there.

Shut up and give me murder.com.

Follow us on social media at Small Town Murder on Instagram.

Smalltown Pod on Facebook, patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all the bonus material.

Anybody, $5 a month or above, you are going to get so much stuff, hundreds of back episodes immediately upon subscription of bonus things you've never heard before.

And there's so much good stuff.

Then you get new ones every other week.

One Crime in Sports, one Small Town Murder, and God damn it, you take them all.

Just take them.

You got it.

This week for Crime and Sports, we're going to talk about the Spanish Paralympic team that was not handicapped or I'm disabled or whatever in any way, shape, or form, and some other little weird scams in sports.

Ben for Small Town Murder, American Nightmare.

It's a documentary on Netflix, and it's probably the craziest story I've ever heard.

They thought these people were faking a kidnapping, a la Sherry Papini.

They called these people the gone girl people because they thought it was that and it's a whole other thing, man.

It is a lot of people.

And they've compared that to so many things.

And the only one it has been is Sherry Pappini.

Yeah.

No other one.

So it's crazy.

So there you go.

There's that.

Patreon.com slash crime and sports.

Plus, you get a shout out at the end of the show, which happens right now.

Jimmy, hit me with the names of the people who would never, ever call us slut puppies in court.

This week's executive producer, Andrea Fellows, Joe Boyd, and her daughter Jocelyn.

Happy birthday, Jocelyn.

Happy birthday, Jocelyn.

Happy birthday to you.

I hope it's a great day.

Kyle Norweg, see you in D.C., Kyle.

That's going to be great.

Kyle,

why do I feel like he lives fucking far?

Actually, no, I think he's up there.

It doesn't matter.

Kyle, you're terrific.

Can't wait to see you.

Kyle, we love you, damn

Also, Pat McCrotch, James.

I'm positive that's really their first name.

Back again, old Pat McCrotch.

Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, John McCoola, Janice Hill, Scarlett Horbeist III, Danielle Tisch, Tim Kane, Kelsey.

Probably not that one, is it?

Yeah, it's the senator from that would be amazing.

I'm sure.

Kelsey Abbey, Peter's brother, Mark McNeely, Laura Gordon.

He felt Mike's punch.

It was so hard.

Alyssa Rockenbach, Felicia Barnes, Sarah with no last name.

Michelle Almeida, Ryan McClelland, Doug Kozak, Christine Cober, Dina W., David Shatty,

Kaylin Chuckrey, Gina Taylor,

the other Jeffrey Lebowski James.

Oh.

Not the one

dude, but the other one.

Fiona Fiala, Max Newbold, Crystal Martinez, Kylie Hollis, Adam Hauser, Melissa Victoria, Doug Rose, Grace Hunt, Tracy Thumb, or Tom?

Probably Tom, right?

Betty and Eddie, both of them.

Betty is the more important one, obviously.

Molly Ellis, Kurt Jacobson, Patty Nelson, Brittany McClure.

I'm knitting right now.

Beeksa.

Beeksa.

B-E-E-K

T-A, Beeksa.

with no last name.

Emily with no last name.

Whitney Amakri.

Amakri.

Benjo Benji.

Benji 25-25.

Or is it Benjo?

I don't know.

This could have been, who knows?

Only Flams, James.

Fronz?

Only Flan.

Yeah.

Flan, the dessert.

That's what it is.

Rachel with no last name.

Jay Jones, probably Jenny from the TV show.

She was wonderful.

Actually, she wasn't, from what I'm told.

She was a monster.

She was a comic.

You know, she was a nightmare.

Yeah, she was paining the name.

You know, she's a horrible person.

She's a comic who had to go into talk shows, bitter.

Yeah.

And hire some random dude that fucked everybody.

Wasn't that true?

I I don't know.

I just know that there was the, she had the

guy got killed from her show because she brought the gay guy on to say she had a crush.

She had a crush on some guy.

Yeah, that wasn't cool.

Cindy Labonte, Jasmine would know last name.

J.R.

Henry, Hugh Garden.

What is this?

Amy Johnson, Callista Milligan, Samantha Crouch, Sean Onegus.

Oh, you better save that one, right?

Claudia

McLough, Caitlin Bradbury, Andrea with no last name.

Rachel

Halabaugh, Courtney Newby, Tammy Hartwig, Kim Samartano, almost relation, not quite.

Oh, to Bruno.

Mara Hempel, Madison Laustra, Carly Yu, John Dennell, Lalani, Lalani Zwaga, David Thompson, Wesley Larson, Patricia Campeau,

Heather Heng, Mike Greer, Christina Janelle, Nick Dish, April Lee,

Heather, Heather Feek, Carolina Nunez, Pacheco, Meredith Ivey, DeGoofy, DeGoofy Focker, James.

I don't think that's any of those are there now.

I don't know.

I think we're well off base on that one.

A real name.

Rebecca Gartner, Brittany Holyfeld, Holy Field, Holyfeld.

Yeah.

And with an I.

God damn it.

Got robbed, Brittany.

There's lots of money on the other one.

Kim Rumble.

He pissed all that away.

Did he?

Oh, yeah.

Probably.

He built a house the size of a town.

Fuck it all.

Didn't even buy a new ear.

Sean Buck, Cat Halabo,

Halabagoo.

Halabagoo?

Holy wow.

Emi Panico, Kimmy Quacker, Quackenbush.

Oh, boy.

Kika L, Caitlin Nicole, Wade Huggins, Jeffrey Robinson, Benjamin Sanders, Ashley Tarengo, James Lebensky, Jennifer Lacombe, Taba, Tabitha with no last name, Addie Kristen with no last name.

Oh, that is a last name.

T.

Smith, Susan Slagel, Jamie Hofton.

Michael Joan.

Victor.

Oh, John.

That's John, James.

That's how you spell John.

J-O-H-N.

Joan.

What the fuck?

Victor Garcia.

Joan.

Joan.

Your name is Joan now.

Tanya

Golly.

Royal with no last name.

Keja Lake.

Christopher Andrade.

Jay Jones.

Another one.

Jesus.

Alicia with no last name.

Jacob with no last name.

Sarah with no last name.

Random Kennedy.

Scary Hendrik.

Elite for Jimmy.

PKM.

MSTR.

What is that?

I don't know what that is.

PKM Master?

I don't know what you're doing, but you're elite for me or him.

Alex Z, Gary Gage.

I hope that's not some fucking like BPSM thing.

Like a coded death threat, maybe.

That's what I automatically go to.

Get either of us.

That's where I go.

Carrie Gage, Matt Herkey, Joe Nasternak, Alex Z, I think I said that.

Joe, nope, Jay Muna, Ash B.

Debbie with no last name, Carol Kurvech, Kirchevich, Kircheval, Eden, Mikel, Mikel Winnie,

Tasha with no last name, Brittany Jacobson, Dave F.

Vivian Souza, Vivian Souza, Lori Smith, Janice Clark, and all of our patrons.

You guys know you're the best.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, everybody.

You fantastic, wonderful, wonderful, just amazing bastards.

We love you so much.

Thanks for all that you do for us.

And we just can't thank you enough.

Keep hanging out with us.

Keep coming back.

You want to follow us on social media?

Shut up and give me murder.com has drop-down menus.

It'll take you anywhere you want to be in the world.

There you go.

That said, no, not that.

That's the other one.

Until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.