The Art Of Murder - Talladega, Alabama

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This week, in Talladega, Alabama, the gruesome discovery of three murders in an apartment leads to finding even more bodies and a hunt for a serial killer as he goes on the run, killing even more people along his path.

Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

Yay!

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy.

Yay, indeed.

My name is James Petrogallo.

I'm here with my co-host.

I'm Jimmy Wussman.

Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another absolutely insane edition of Small Town Murder.

As usual, today is just, this guy is a whack job.

This is a crazy one.

We will get into all of that.

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Disclaimer time.

Here we go.

This is a comedy show, everybody.

Now, yes, the murders are absolutely 100% real, and every detail and fact is real.

That's the thing.

Our goal is to do better research than Dateline or 2020 or these shows that do murder shows.

Do better research than them and be funny.

So that's what we're doing here.

Now, you might go, how does that go together?

Murder and copy.

They do go together.

That's the thing.

What you do is, and what we do is we never make fun of the victims or the victims' families.

Why is that, James?

Because we're assholes.

But we're not scumbags.

See how that works there?

That's how it goes.

And it's pretty good otherwise.

But yeah, there's plenty you can do here.

We make fun of small towns because we're all from somewhere that's worthy of being made fun of.

Who cares?

We make fun of a bumbling police force that lets a murderer go free.

And we also make fun of murderers because why not?

We can't do anything else about it, but make fun of them.

So, you know, when someone says, I think I can get away with this, we go, that's pretty ridiculous.

We're going to make fun of you for that.

So that said.

If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, maybe we're not for you, but I think you should give it a shot here.

Really do.

I think you're going to like it.

That said, I think it's time to sit back, everybody.

Oh, boy.

Let's all clear the lungs.

Here we go.

And let's all shout.

Shut up

and give me murder.

Let's do this, everybody.

Let's go on a trip, shall we?

All right.

We're going to Alabama this week.

Here we go.

We're going to Talladega, Alabama,

which I know you've heard of because of

the famous racetrack that everybody crashes.

I'm not a NASCAR fan at all, but I know that's the track everybody crashes at.

It's It's famous for it.

And there's a possible curse that we'll get into

that causes all these crashes.

It's not just a tight track.

It's a curse.

You know, obviously, it's got to be a curse.

So, Talladega, Alabama is

like kind of central Alabama, off to the east a little bit in that area.

It's about an hour to Birmingham, about two hours to Atlanta, in the other direction if you go east, and about an hour and 10 minutes to Clanton, Alabama, which is our last Alabama episode, episode 586.

Self-explanatory title, Never Trust Your Cousin.

That's a...

Never Trust Your Cousin.

Good advice.

Yep.

It's Talladega County, this is in, area code 256.

And the motto, unsurprisingly, is City of Speed.

And if you don't know what we're talking about, or if you're from another country or something like that, the Talladega has a very famous racetrack here that NASCAR does.

It's on their tour every year, right?

It's one of their races.

Yeah, right.

So every year, and and it's famous for crashes.

And a little bit of history of this town will kind of introduce you to that here.

They opened Talladega Speedway in 1969.

Now, also, what's here, another big thing that's here, not only the Speedway, but also the Alabama Institute for the Deaf and Blind, which is a very big, apparently in the deaf and blind world, it's a very big deal.

I'm not

looked for a blind school.

If there's ever a place that is a great place for deaf people, it's Talladega.

Yeah.

I didn't hear shit.

They're not annoyed at all.

No.

So

this was established in 1858, and nationally, it's one of the very famous schools for the deaf, really.

Now, the Talladega Speedway curse, there is a legend that says that the Talladega Super Speedway was originally built on a former Creek Nation territory, and it's cursed.

The natives have put a curse on them.

It's said to be the site of a sacred burial ground, and a Creek chief allegedly placed a curse on it after being forced out by the government to build the track.

The Talladega Jinx is often blamed for all the weird events that have happened.

A few here.

One, the Bobby Isaac incident.

In 1973, a NASCAR driver named Bobby Isaac abruptly pulled his car off the track during a race and quit, saying he heard a voice telling him to leave.

Go, get out of the house.

It's like a poltergeist car.

It's got a poltergeist car.

He never returned to the track that day, took off.

Reviews of this town here.

Five stars.

I've lived here almost my whole life, and I've gone to school here from birth to present.

Wow, put him right in school at birth.

There you go.

Learn something.

Welcome.

Tallatega is a good place.

Rake's weekend is awful to be a resident when you have everyone from the track coming through to buy beer, but other than that, it's decent.

Well, yeah, that's probably a big boon to all the convenience stores around there.

They love that shit.

That probably pays your sales tax for the year.

That's what I mean.

Not much to do for kids and teens, but it's slowly getting better.

Okay.

Other people disagree here.

Three stars, it's a pretty little place, but nothing really to do.

I'm always hearing about crimes that took place.

However, there are good people in Talladega, and they're working to improve the situation.

Right.

They're good people working to improve it.

Okay.

One star.

Growing up in Talladega, I enjoyed school and the little places attended for children after school.

However, I noticed the decline of children graduating and those buildings that were for them to be social have been torn down.

What, the mall?

Yeah, where are kids supposed to be social?

The crime rate is terrible.

We'll be the judge of that, sir.

Every newsletter is another murder tragedy.

Newsletter?

They don't have a newspaper.

They have a newsletter.

They got a newsletter.

They got a pamphlet.

Wow.

I've never heard of that before.

Did you get the pamphlet?

They drop it off yet?

This city needs better funding for the schools.

Something needs to be done to ensure the safety of the people.

I agree.

We will find out.

People in this town, how many people do we need to be safe?

15,782, which is a good amount.

It's a decent amount.

51.2% women, 48.8% men, which is a little above the the national average as far as the difference goes, but not too far.

Median age is about a year older than the national average.

It's 39.5%.

The situation here, usually marriage, married is 50-50.

Here, it's 33%.

Wow.

So it's a lot lower.

Marriage rate.

Yeah.

About the same divorce rate, though,

which is, if there's less people married and the same percentage of people divorcing, that means that those marriages aren't ending well.

Race in this town, 45.8% white, 48.1% black, 1.1% Asian, 4% Hispanic.

53.4% of the people here are religious.

And no surprise, the winner, the number one with a bullet here is going to be Baptist at 33.2.

As we know, Baptists are the Catholics

of the South.

By the way, I've gotten multiple messages asking why we say that.

It's just noticing numbers.

That's all it is.

And if you go to like Massachusetts, it'll be 48% Catholic.

And if you go down south, it'll be 48% Baptist.

That's all.

It sounded like the sentence was pretty self-explanatory.

That's what I thought.

But sometimes you got to explain.

I said, yeah, maybe we haven't explained that in a few years.

Don't know.

I'm like, okay, let me explain it then.

People got mad at me for it.

They're like, how dare you?

I'm like, what are you talking?

I'm just pointing out the existence of people.

How can you get mad at that?

The things people get mad at me for on the show is

wild.

It's remarkable.

Low unemployment here.

It's about half the national average, so very low.

Median household income is below half the national average, though.

That's not great.

Median, it is $31,795 a year.

It's normally $69,000 in change in the rest of the year.

And they make that on one weekend.

That's just from selling parking spots in your yard for

race day.

The cost of living here, 100, is regular average.

Here it's 76, and housing is the real low one.

The median home cost here is $134,600.

So

you'd need it to be that low, though, based on the income.

So if we've convinced you, the only place that you will be happy is Talladega, Alabama.

We have for you the Talladega, Alabama Real Estate Report.

Okay, here we go.

Your first house up on the block is a three-bedroom, three-bath, t-ball for all your beeholes, 1,549 or 46-square-foot house.

It's built in 1960.

It's on about three-quarters of an acre.

I'm going to show you a picture of it.

It looks like it could use some help.

I can't believe there's 3-3 under that roof.

It's amazing.

I don't know how far back it goes, though.

That's only the front.

So it could go because there's 1,500 square feet.

But

it looks like it's fallen apart.

The front steps going up the front porch are like crooked.

That's just a bad sign.

And the price of it, you know, it's fallen apart.

$39,900 for that.

Three quarters of an acre.

Three quarters of an acre in a 1,500 square foot house.

Wow.

Next up is a three-bedroom, two-bath, 960-square-foot house.

I'll show it to you.

It's a cute little brick house, though.

See, it's nice.

It looks the same size as the other.

That's great.

It does.

Well, because we don't have deep.

It's a patio over there.

It looks like a little outdoor screened in porch.

It's only 960 square feet.

It's got a metal roof, so have fun during rainstorms.

It's on half an acre, though, too, and it's $124,900.

Not bad.

No, that's kind of the average house because what is it?

$134 is the median home cost.

$1,000, though.

Pretty close.

That's small.

And then here we go.

You know what?

Let's just do this.

22-bedroom, 8-bath.

What?

11,632 square foot

on a 3.4.

11,000?

11,632 square foot on a 3.4-acre lot.

It's built in 1936, and it used to be a nursing home.

I'm just kidding.

There we go.

You know how many people died in here?

You want to live there?

It's probably Richard Petty's house.

Oh, it's huge with pillars.

It was a nursing home.

It was a nursing home, and now it can be ours.

It looks like one of those rich dipshit schools.

Kind of.

I was going to say, it looks like a private school is what it looks like, a private school, but

it is

huge.

$450,000 for that.

Are you kidding me?

I mean, I'm sure it needs some work.

And like we said, hundreds of old people have died there, but still,

$450,000.

I'm sure.

I don't know how it wouldn't.

Things to do here.

Okay.

The Talladega Bluegrass and Finger Style Guitar Festival.

Yeah, I made the same face when I fucking read it.

It's like finger style?

I have to go with the two fingers.

So you won't get all up in there.

Now you got to go with the the one finger and make sure you hook it back.

You know what I'm saying?

There's people just arguing over finger styling.

This is how I do it.

Really dancing on them.

Welcome to the Talladega Bluegrass and Finger Style Guitar Festival.

The dynamic Talladega Bluegrass and Fingerstyle Guitar Festival

team has pulled together the very best talent, venue, and special events required for an enjoyable music festival experience.

The lineup is first class with three full days of some of the hottest names on today's bluegrass music and fingerstyle guitar circuit taking this day.

I didn't know there was a finger style guitar circuit circuit.

There's a whole finger circuit.

There's a whole circuit of fingering that we had no idea about.

Oh, and did we mention campground jamming?

No.

Music.

Music non-stop all weekend long.

Is that a threat?

It sounds like a threat.

You'll be trying to sleep.

I'll be playing bluegrass music right over your tent.

It's like, hey, calm down.

Tune up.

Well, that's when the finger styling starts.

Once the sleeping

tune up your fiddle, bring along your banjo, get out the guitar, bust out the bass, and make tracks with that mandolin to the Talladega Bluegrass and Fingerstyle Guitar Festival.

Pick a tune, sing a song, catch up with old friends, and make some new ones along the way.

So they're encouraging amateur guitarism as well.

Some of the people here, Shannon Slaughter.

Yeah.

And he'll be there with, and County Claire.

Not Country Claire, County Clare.

Out from the county.

Fast Track, which is a bunch of

70-year-old men wearing suits.

Slow track.

Slower track.

Carolyn Owens and New Company.

She just got rid of all of her old company.

And she got rid of bad company.

Now she's got new company.

New company.

New company.

Russell Moore and Russell Moore III and Time Out.

Edgar Lautermilk Band.

Bent Creek.

This isn't good.

Okay.

And Backline.

That will be there.

But they backline.

There's a guy with an enormous stand-up bass.

So that's got potential.

It's got an opportunity to be good.

If I see a stand-up bass, I'll give it a minute.

You know what I mean?

But the way to get tickets is you you get you send a an order form and a check or money order to Edgar Lautermilk.

of the Edgar Lautermilk band.

Not even online.

You and there's a thing that you like print out and cut off and fill in number of tickets.

It's like from the fucking 80s.

There's a bank in a cashier's check.

It's so weird.

And if that's not enough action for you, there's the Kymulga Grist Mill and Covered Bridge.

Oh, thank God.

Thank shit for that.

They said it dates back to 1864.

And despite surviving the Civil War without damage, the mill changed hands four times before being acquired by the Cheidelsberg Heritage Committee.

One of the most interesting things about the grist mill, I'd love to hear what's interesting about it.

One of the most.

One of the most is that it still uses its original large millstones to produce cornmeal to this day.

However, it operates.

That's interesting.

That's interesting.

However, it operates on electricity instead of traditional water power because it's on a creek and that's how it worked.

Okay, crime rate in this town.

What we are interested in here.

Property crime.

That person was not lying.

Twice the national average property crime.

Oh, boy.

I don't know if that's all during race weekend or what.

That's the problem.

When you put in tens of thousands of drunken NASCAR fans

for an event where people are always crashing, that could really send a small town's crime rate through the roof.

You know what I mean?

Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime is almost double the national average.

Jesus Christ.

Taladine is scary.

It's some scary shit for a small town of 15,000 here.

That said, let's talk about some real scary shit with a murder.

Let's do this with lots of murder, I should say, not just a murder.

Let's start out in December of 1985.

Let's do that.

Let's meet a young man here, Donald Hendren, H-E-N-D-R, either O-N or E-N, depending on the source.

But

court documents have O-N, so I'm going with O-N.

We'll go there.

Now, he had been living in Studio City in California, in L.A.

He's living in L.A., and he decides that he is going to move across the country in December of 85, traveling, leaving from Hollywood, and he's going to end up in Talladega, Alabama,

where he's going to serve as an artist in residence at the Alabama Institute for the Deaf and Blind.

They make murals.

They do sets for their plays and things and productions they do and stuff like that and music stuff.

They have all sorts of art programs for the people.

So he leaves Los Angeles, driving east.

His plan was to first go to North Carolina to visit his family, then head down to Talladega to operate their theater program and help down there.

That's what he was going to do.

So on December 30th of 1985, the day before New Year's Eve, while passing through Tucson,

I guess he's going to take the 10 across is his plan.

He picks up a hitchhiker.

Oh.

In Tucson.

In Tucson.

Which by the 80s, picking up hitchhikers was

sketchy business.

Yeah.

That's not good.

That's 70s.

That would have been...

People used to just pick up hitchhikers for some company and maybe they can take a shift driving, literally.

Just for conversation.

Yeah.

I think there's an old story about the baseball pitcher, Bob Gibson, fucking going to spring training and he was falling asleep driving his fucking giant Lincoln or some shit.

And he was falling asleep and he saw some guy on the road.

He said he looked like he slept in a ditch.

So he picked the guy up.

And he said, you know, he needed some company to stay awake.

So he was talking to him.

And then at one point, he's like, I'll get some sleep.

You drive.

And they switched.

And he said, this guy was just caked in dirt and mud.

He was all, you know, just looked like he slept outside for days.

The guy gets in there and he said he's driving it for a little while.

He was having some trouble with the cruise control.

And Bob Gibson woke up and looked over.

He said, what the hell's going on?

He goes, I wouldn't drive a piece of shit like this.

He was on the road an hour ago, sleeping in a ditch.

Yeah.

That was a fun story.

So anyway,

that's what he's doing.

He finds a young man to pick up, and the guy's name is Daniel Spence.

He gets in the car, says, hi, I'm Daniel Spence.

Daniel Spence at this point is, you know, he's born in 1954.

So he's 31 at this point.

Sure, sure.

And, you know, looking to get across the country.

So

the Hendren, the guy, the driver, he notices that Daniel Spence has an artist's case with him.

Yeah.

He's like, wait, you're an artist?

I'm an artist.

I'm going, literally going across the country for an art job.

I do, yeah.

So they spent the next two states discussing art and views on art.

If you find somebody that you share that kind of common interest with, you can talk for two days about it.

The next two states, James, that's New Mexico and Texas.

Well, that's like four days worth of states.

Yeah, it's a lot.

So Hendren was impressed with Daniel's talent and he said, dude, you should come with me to Talladega to work for this program.

He said, you're just drifting at this point.

You should, you know, you could be a set designer.

He goes, when you first get in, like he said, i'm running the program so i get a paycheck but when you i can get you in as a volunteer where you don't really get paid but you get room and board yeah so i mean i mean if you're drifting and standing in tucson with your thumb out that's a pretty good offer especially for

artwork it's not like you have to go dig ditches so yeah so there they go they they keep on driving and uh daniel said yeah that sounds great Yeah, what a fucking fortuitous.

Not only did I get a ride across the country, but I got a goddamn job out of this too.

This is awesome.

At the destination.

At the destination yeah and and and an art job too not just like you know some job i don't want so daniel said yeah but i have to go visit my mother in illinois before i go to talladega

so just north of jackson mississippi they part company hendren goes on to north carolina and then to uh and then to uh uh talladega whereas daniel hitchhikes up north to illinois to go see his parents or his mom he said

So that's how they do it.

Now, Hendren ended up arriving in Talladega on January 9th, 1986.

And when he got there, he is contacted by Daniel Spence.

He contacts him

through the Institute.

Sure.

He says, I'm trying to get a hold of this guy.

So they get back with each other.

And he says, you know, is it still okay if I come down there and get this job?

And Hendren said, yeah, come on down.

He goes, you can even stay with me in my apartment.

So you can be my roommate.

Perfect.

So this is Danny Ray Spence.

He says, No problem, let's do it.

So he gets down there.

He's going to help design stage sets at the Institute.

So he gets a job down there.

And by the way, this deaf and blind institute is a big deal down there.

It's huge.

It's founded in 1858.

So it's at the core of everything that's been there.

They have

they employ hundreds of people at this point.

And basically, it's it's it's mainly deaf at this point.

And there's blind people too, but it's mainly, it's become a big thing for the deaf.

And, you know, everybody, if you're deaf, you can be very comfortable in Talladega because everybody speaks sign language kind of there.

A lot of the people do.

Right.

Because a lot of the people work at the Institute.

So

one of the...

kind of upper muckety mucks of the town here said AIBD, AIDB is a big part of the Talladega community.

It's actually a community of its own and a family of its own.

So Danny arrives on January 20th, 1986.

And within days, he's ingratiated himself to everybody at the Institute.

They all like him.

He's a charmer.

He is a very good artist.

They're all impressed with his work, and they're happy to have him there, basically.

He volunteers to paint a mural.

He helps with set designs.

He's polite and a good conversationalist and a real find.

Everyone's like, Jesus, good job picking this guy up off the road.

This guy's a fucking great guy to have here.

So they find an apartment.

This is Hendren and Danny Spence.

They first share an apartment kind of right, it's like on the campus of the Institute, like when they first get there.

And then after a little bit, a couple of weeks maybe, they move into another apartment in the Porter building after that.

Now that'll come up again.

He, Danny Spence tells Hendren that, you know, I kind of like it here.

I like the job.

I like the environment.

I'm kind of maybe thinking about settling down here.

I'm just going to say.

Yeah, because they've been talking about he's been bouncing around all different places.

He's an artist, and artists are looking for a place to ply their trade and stuff like that.

So he goes, if I can do my art and actually have a decent life here, maybe I'll settle in here.

You know what I mean?

Now, shortly after they move into the Porter building,

Danny starts getting in with the ladies.

Okay, there's a couple different ladies.

Number one, and the one he calls his girlfriend, is Sherry Weathers.

And that's W-E-H or W-E-A, like the weather, not with an H.

She's 24 years old, Sherry Weathers.

She had been just is getting done being a student at the Institute and is going to be a teacher.

Yeah.

So that's what she's been doing.

She's a single mother.

She's deaf.

And that's one thing.

You're going to find a deaf chick if you're coming here.

I mean, that's.

Oh, you bet.

That's what you're going to get probably.

That's if you're going to work at the Institute and know these people.

Now, she

Sherry, a little bit about her,

she said that

Sherry lived in Midland City in southern Alabama for about a year and a half before she moved to Talladega.

And,

you know, she's lived here since then.

And she's also was divorced and living alone with her two children.

So she's a divorced single mom, has two small children that are five and four at point.

So they said that

Sherry had told her friends when she got here that she'd been beaten by her ex-husband.

Oh, that's nice.

Beat up a deaf lady.

That's excellent.

And she also said that she had rough experiences in her childhood with her parents, too.

She's had a rough go of it, basically.

And on top of everything else, she can't hear shit.

So that doesn't help any.

Not easy.

Yeah.

It's frustrating.

Yeah.

One of her friends said she'd been having a hard time all her life.

We told her to be careful.

We gave her warnings of, you know, be careful of people.

You know, you have a tendency to date people who aren't great for you.

But she said, no, Danny's a great guy, and he treats me wonderful.

So she thinks she's found gold here.

She's living in the Sunrise apartments with her sons, Chad, who's five years old, and Joey, who's four years old.

She lives in apartment 30 of the Sunrise Apartments.

Now,

problem is relationships between any staff and students are strictly prohibited at the deaf school.

Oh.

Not cool.

Okay.

Not okay.

So Hendren, the guy who gave him a ride and got him a job, he wants to separate himself from the situation.

He does not want to be lumped in with like being told that he helped facilitate this or something.

So he moves out of their apartment.

Oh.

In on February 16th, 1986.

He said he told Danny, look, man, this is going to to mess you up at the Institute, and I don't want to get myself messed up.

I like this job, and I like this place, and I'm going to stay.

Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show, tell you a little better way to manage your money with Chime.

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Now back to the show.

So that's what happened.

So on February 16th, 1986,

Hendren moves out and Danny Spence is in the apartment by himself.

Okay.

Now, another person who knows Sherry talks about saying that she used to be her roommate and said that they talked about Spence quite a bit.

They're friends still.

They were roommates when she first moved to town.

And this person said, she told me he was real nice.

She said he was real good to her, quote unquote.

So that's all you can ask for.

Nice and good to her.

Now, February 19th, 1986, this is three days after Hendren

moved out of the apartment.

with Danny.

Now, they see each other this day.

Hendren arranges to pick Danny up about 8 a.m.

the next morning to go to a faculty meeting.

Danny doesn't have a car, obviously, hitchhiked here.

So they're planning the morning of 8 a.m.

on the 20th of February that Danny's going to be outside his apartment ready to go.

Now, this day, February 19th, we'll talk about Linda Faye Odom.

And her last name is O D U M, sometimes O D O M, but most commonly O D U M.

She's 32 years old.

She is a cocktail waitress and a mother of two.

She lives in Talladega, and,

you know, she kind of, she knows Danny from being around.

Sure.

And briefly dated him here a little bit, too.

Yeah.

Yes, unbeknownst to Sherry.

So he was kind of dating a little bit of this one, a little bit of that one.

And it's very interesting.

And when we talk about his background and what he's about,

it's even odder.

So they dated briefly.

And now she has another boyfriend.

Now, I don't know if she was cheating on this boyfriend with Danny or what.

We have no idea.

This guy's name is Stephen Laney.

And on the 19th, Stephen Laney and Linda Odom and Danny Spence are having lunch together.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

Now, Stephen here, Laney, that's Linda's boyfriend, he goes off to get his car, leaves to get his car at one point.

I guess he had left his car somewhere and he went to go get it and he said, I'll be back.

When he returns, he can't find Linda.

She's gone.

She's gone.

She can't find, not in her apartment, nowhere to be found.

Can't find her.

So he goes and knocks on Danny's door because he says, you're the last person.

Have you seen Linda?

Is she here with you?

Where is she?

And Danny says, fuck, I haven't seen her.

We left and broke apart soon after you took off.

He goes, I'll sure help you look for her if you want, though.

Let's go.

So they go out and they look around.

They can't find Linda.

So, yeah, so Stephen's like, What the fuck, man?

She just ditched me.

That's pretty lame.

Yeah.

Don't know.

So, yeah, they don't know.

That was it.

He just gives up.

He's like, Well, I guess that's that.

So

after they look for

her,

Danny asks Stephen if he could have a ride to his girlfriend's house, Sherry Weathers.

So Stephen drops him off there.

This is February 19th, 1986, at about 8 p.m.

So it's a long day for Danny here.

That night, he is seen at 8 p.m.

with Sherry Weathers and her neighbor, Linda Jarman, J-A-R-M-A-N, Jarman.

They're buying beer at a convenience store in Talladega

and they're discussing a card game that they're going to play.

They bought beer to go home and play cards and drink beer, which is fun.

Who doesn't like to drink and play cards?

Any game at home, really.

Yeah.

So, so people, yeah, especially if you're drinking, it's fun.

No matter what.

So,

there's people around that see them, all three of them, laughing together and having a good time.

And I don't know if he learns sign language real quick or what, but he's communicating with

a deaf woman.

Yeah, sometimes they read lips real well.

That's true.

No, and they're both deaf.

Sherry and Linda are deaf.

So he's with two deaf ladies.

Linda is Jarmin, is 33 years old.

She's at it tough, too.

She's the youngest of of seven children and deaf,

lived in the area her whole life.

She was a student at the AIDB where she completed a program for job preparation.

So she's still in the area hanging out, and she's a neighbor of Sherry's and a good friend of hers and babysits Sherry's two kids often.

Now, she had just come from working about a year in Birmingham City Hall as a copy machine operator before she came back to Talladega and completed this program that trained people.

Her mom said she liked Talladega because

she could communicate with people better.

A lot of people here know the sign language.

It's very impressive.

The more people that know it, the easier it's going to be to live there.

Dude, being deaf would be horrible.

To not be able to communicate would be not nearly as bad as blind.

Don't get me wrong.

I can't imagine driving with it.

And my cousin does it all the time.

It is mind-blowing.

People always say, would you you rather be deaf or blind?

I don't think there's much of a contest there.

No.

You know, deaf sucks, but I'll take it any day over blind.

Yeah.

At least deaf people know when they're done wiping their ass.

You know what I mean?

That's a fact.

I'm sorry.

I mean,

there's a lot of questions.

Blind is tough.

Blind people that I have.

And

I can't imagine.

It's incredible.

I can't imagine.

I can't imagine.

They're incredible.

I can't imagine how they do it.

People that can go about their business blind are absolutely incredible.

I don't get it.

I mean, mean deaf people too but blind is you can't see that's crazy yeah that's worse than the rubik's cube i don't i don't know how you're doing it every day

um now linda also has a five-year-old child who lives with her parents at this point while she's doing all this stuff um she lives she's a neighbor of sherry's in the sunrise apartment complex and she's single and described as real independent but despite being deaf and that's kind of part of the program too is to make these deaf people as independent as possible.

That's what's going on here.

Yeah.

The two women are really close.

They're often seen hanging out together, Sherry and Linda.

And like we said, Linda would babysit Sherry's kids all the time and even drive her places because Linda has a car, a big cream-colored 73 Buick that she's driving around.

Oh, damn.

Boat.

She is driving a boat.

And she would give her rides, give Sherry rides places.

Deaf driving that, huh?

Big old.

here I come motherfuckers out the way I'm coming she can't even hear the people honking when she's too close

horns blaring kids screaming jumping out of the way she's just dogs barking she's cruising along doesn't give a shit so that night that's Linda and then there's Sherry and then there's Danny and they're all leaving the convenience store together Now, Billy Kyle is another resident of the Sunrise Apartments.

He saw about, he said he thought it was sometime after 8 p.m.

Now, Billy is described in court documents as, quote, mildly retarded and deaf.

Okay.

So that's, yeah,

I don't know what happened here, but he said sometime after 8, he saw Sherry and

Danny in her apartment fighting.

Oh.

I don't know what kind of argument they could have because I don't think he speaks sign language and she doesn't speak very well.

I don't know what kind of charades argument those two went through that night, but somebody broke out some pictionary.

This is what you did with an arrow pointing to it.

Sometimes legally deaf is different from all the way deaf, too.

No, she doesn't hear shit.

She doesn't hear at all.

So there's no way she talks.

These people aren't legally deaf.

They're deaf from birth.

Or deaf from young.

Yeah, they're deaf, deaf.

Super deaf.

Yeah.

They're not just like, I went to too many motorhead concerts.

Like, they're not here ringing in my ear.

Yeah, some people just just get sick and then there's fever spikes and they just go deaf, but they don't go all the way deaf because there's still a little bit of hearing there.

But yeah, it's,

I can't imagine being all the way.

Yeah.

So this Billy says that it was the time he arrived home is where he saw this, and it was sometime after 8 p.m., which lines up with the fact that they were leaving the convenience store at 8 p.m.

Fetus Porter, F-E-T-T-U-S.

That's the man's first name.

Fetus.

You sure it's not fetus?

I think that's what the second T is for, to keep it from being Fetus.

To keep it from being Fetus.

Yeah, that's why I was like, it's definitely Fetus here.

It looks like Fetus.

Fetus looks like Fetus.

Fetis Porter, who's a neighbor of Sherry's, he got home at about 9.30 p.m.

that night and found a note from Sherry on his door saying, hey, come over and play cards with me, Danny, and Linda.

Yeah.

We need a fourth for cards.

Can't play fucking teams with three people.

So he said, shit, yeah, why not?

I'm not doing anything.

He heads over to Sherry's apartment about 10.30 p.m.

where

when the door opens, he finds Sherry and Linda chatting, having a chit-chat, signing back and forth and doing everything.

They said, I thought you had a third here.

I thought we needed four people.

Where's Danny?

And they said, oh, well, Danny just left.

He took Linda's car, the cream-colored 73 Buick, to get some more beer.

Apparently,

they were thirstier than they looked

than they thought.

And they said, we're all going to play cards when he gets back with the beer, the four of us.

So we'll do that.

Now, Porter, Fettis, he remains at the apartment till about midnight, and Danny never comes back.

Never shows up.

Never comes back.

So he says, fuck it, I'm going back home.

I was going to play cards till about now, and I'm not going to start playing at midnight.

So I'm out of here.

So that's fine.

So, yeah,

he leaves, and that's how that goes.

Now, the next morning, February 20th, Hendren arrives to pick Danny up for the faculty meeting.

When he gets there,

Danny's not there.

Can't find him.

Knocks on his door, doesn't answer, looks in the windows, can't see him.

He's not there.

He's like, okay, I guess he's not coming to the faculty meeting.

He drives away.

Now, Sunday, February 23rd, 1986.

So now three days later here,

no one has seen Sherry or her children children around the apartments in a couple of days.

Or her kids.

Nobody.

Yeah.

Billy, the man who saw them fighting when he came home there,

he said that, you know, he remembered seeing the fight between Sherry and Danny in the apartment.

So he said, I haven't seen her in a couple of days.

I saw her fight, and I better go check on her.

So Billy goes to check on Sherry, knocks on the door and, you know, knocks on the windows, and nobody answers.

So he's pretty concerned about this.

So he climbs into Sherry's apartment through an unsecured window.

Hmm.

This is his story.

Climbs through an unsecured window, but he could see into the bed.

He could see a part of Sherry's body, arm, leg, something sticking out of a sheet.

In the bed.

In the bed.

So he's like, oh, shit.

He said, I saw that and immediately climbed back out the window.

I got scared.

Like, oh, fuck, I just broke into this woman's apartment while she's sleeping.

Holy shit, no, this isn't good.

I better leave.

why would he knock what a dumb thing to do to knock to see if she's home yeah for a deaf woman's house yeah well i mean i think they have a doorbell where the lights ring the lights go off

yeah yeah there's no knocking obviously yeah that's just it was more of a euphemism of trying to get her attention from outside you know yeah i don't know how

she'd have to have something all the deaf people have those doorbells where the lights

it's a light they have it like connected to their like lamps or something where

bell rings the lights flicker the lights flicker or they know okay yeah they they whatever they'll they'll do something they do an action yeah an action or some people have a I've seen like a like a red light like a bulb up by the door that'll like come on like an on-air sign kind of I guess yeah you could say that fascinating so yeah so

um

he

the next day

he tells Wanda Hunley, who's an Institute social worker, that he was concerned about Sherry and said,

will you check on Sherry?

Didn't say that he climbed in her window or any of that shit, right?

Yeah.

So she makes several phone calls, this person, and learns that no one's seen Sherry or her children in a few days.

Oh.

So she also learned from one of the neighbors that there is an odor emanating from apartment 30 as well.

Oh, no.

So they're like, huh, I don't think she's cooking curry in there or something.

So this is bad.

So this woman from the Institute, accompanied by several other people from the Institute, all decide to go down to the apartments to look for.

Right.

So they go in, they get a passkey from the manager for apartment 30.

They explain what's going on.

They also call a cop to go in there with them, just in case.

Officer Tom Bayman is first on the scene.

He opens the door, takes one look, backs out the door, closes it, locks it, and calls for detectives on his radio.

Like it took him,

they were like standing back.

He opened the door, took half a step in, and then closed it and locked it again.

Well, never mind.

So, a detective.

Well, a little of both, as we'll find out.

Detective Eugene Jax arrives here with an investigator from the DA's office as well.

And

Jacks, years, decades later, said, quote, right in the center of the living room in the kitchen, you see three bodies.

Three?

It's quite horrible.

I haven't forgotten it after all these years.

So upon entering, they find

Sherry, Chad, and Joey all dead

and posed in the shape of a cross.

Oh wow.

The kids being the arms.

Yeah.

And with a sheet over them.

Horrible.

Horrifying.

And posed, which is even scarier.

This is not a random positioning.

This is clearly opposing.

So they're like, this is bad.

This is real bad.

They, once they fingerprint everything, they go, hey, Billy, we found your fingerprints on a fucking window.

Yeah.

Like, like you climbed in the window.

And then he had to explain all of this shit.

So at first, they thought Billy absolutely did this because they found his fucking fingerprints climbing in a window.

That's exactly what you're looking for.

Someone breaking in and doing this.

And he's the one telling people to check on her.

Yes, but he's a real, like, meek little guy.

And they were just like, I don't see it out of him.

I just don't see it out of him.

Everybody kept saying, I don't see it out of him.

And he, apparently, I don't know if he passed a polygraph or whatever, but they believed him that he just went in to check on her.

Wow.

So the autopsies show that all three, Sherry and her sons, Chad and Joey, all died as a result of ligature strangulation.

Oh, boy.

That's a rough way to go, man.

So a huge investigation.

I mean, you killed a sweet deaf lady, you know, with a lot of friends

and two little kids.

Yeah, this is like massive.

Yeah, they want this shit solved yesterday.

This is big, real big.

So during the investigation, they lift shoe prints from apartment 30.

So they have some foreign shoe prints, and that's one of the reasons why they believe Billy was because his shoes didn't match the shoe prints in there.

That's good.

So they were like, okay.

So now they're really canvassing everywhere, talking to everybody.

And they find out that there is a neighbor, Catherine Elaine Shelborne, who lives next door to Sherry in apartment 31, shares a common wall with her, and is not deaf.

Oh.

She's also not deaf.

There's also elderly people live in this complex.

She's also not deaf.

Yes, either elderly or deaf, pretty much.

So

she heard through the wall, she said, on February 19th, the night all this started, she said she heard a man.

By the way, how thin are these walls that she heard every fucking word of this?

Yeah, and knew the gender.

She heard a man's voice saying, quote, come to me, you can join your mother.

Yikes.

And then a minute later, she heard him say, Come on, and you will be with your mother and brother.

Oh my God.

So

that's what she heard through the wall.

But that doesn't sound frightening.

That sounds like, oh, come with me and I'll take you to your mother.

Your mom's in here.

Right, right, right.

With no context.

That's what he's saying.

Yeah, when you hit them all dead in there, it's much worse and much weirder.

So now,

while they're processing this murder scene,

they discover that Linda Jarmin hasn't shown up for her classes either.

Oh.

It's been days and she hasn't been showing up either.

So they go, okay, well, we better check on this Linda Jarmin.

She lives in one of the apartments close by.

So they head to her apartment and they knock and knock or ring the doorbell or whatever the fuck they do to get her attention.

She doesn't answer.

They get a passkey.

They go in.

They find her strangled to death in her bed.

Wow.

Strangled to death in her fucking bed.

Ligature around the neck.

Same thing.

Yeah.

Yep.

Her VCR is missing and her cream-colored 73 Buick is gone.

In 1986, by the way, people are going, VCR.

First of all, if you're young, that means video cassette recorder.

It's these big tapes that we used to have, and you put them in and watch movies and tape shit off TV.

Yeah.

And now an 8-track is also a tape.

We can go back forever, which is just a square record.

Now, a record is this round thing that's real big and made of vinyl that you put on.

Go back to phonographs.

Cartridges, a cartridge is.

Yeah.

So

back then, a VCR cost a lot of money.

You could sell a VCR for 300 bucks on the street.

Like back then, it was expensive.

So

the VCR being missing is a big deal.

That's a robbery thing.

And our car's gone, obviously.

Now, while all this is going on,

they're contacting everyone that might talked to any of these people and Stephen Laney comes forward remember Stephen Laney Linda Odom's boyfriend he says I haven't seen Linda Odom in a long and since then either the last time I saw her was at lunch I went to get my car came back she's gone me and Danny looked for her never found her I dropped Danny off so what the fuck is that

so they don't know they're like shit we've

I don't know I guess we'll look into that too so now they have

two missing or one missing woman and two dead women and two dead kids.

That's a lot.

That's a long weekend, man.

Yeah.

For Talladega, that's a small place.

This is 15,000 people.

This is a, you know, three years worth of death.

Three years worth of murder, probably.

I mean, they have one or two murders a year in this county, probably.

Every day.

This is crazy.

So the police said here, the spokesman said that no arrests have been made, but there are several people we're checking out.

He said there are four or five people under investigation by authorities.

Now, one of them at the time was Billy Kyle, the guy who climbed in the window.

He was cleared.

But they said they are searching for a man to talk to who was believed to be Sherry Weather's boyfriend, and he hasn't been seen either.

And that's Danny Spence.

So

the Stephen Laney, who hasn't seen Linda Odom since February 19th at lunch, says, I did see,

I did see

Danny Danny Spence, though.

He said, I saw him late February 19th or early February 20th, like late at night or morning.

He said that, wow,

he had dropped him off and that I guess he had went home.

Danny had gone home and he saw Danny loading several large trash bags into a car outside his apartment building late night on the 20th.

And he said that, you know, know, he didn't know what was going on.

So Stephen said, I asked him, how did he get back?

And he said he used his girlfriend's car.

But he used Linda Jarman's car.

He said that Danny told him he had a fight with Sherry and that he was about to return some of her belongings to her.

And that was all the garbage bags that he was putting in.

It was her stuff that was at his place.

They've been together for like,

they've been together for like three weeks.

I don't know how, how much stuff could she have over there?

So anyway, the neighbors are freaked the fuck fuck out, by the way, about this.

Yeah.

Yeah, all of them.

Everyone in the area is freaked out.

They said that the, you know, number one, they like these people.

They're already being missed.

And

one person here, a neighbor, said, quote, it really hurt me to the heart because me and her were real close, talking about Linda Jarmin.

She said she used to come over all the time and we'd share cigarettes together.

Just come over and smoke.

Come on by and smoke for a while.

Okay.

Normally smoking isn't an activity that you like get together to do.

I'm going to come over and smoke.

How's that sound?

I'm going to come over and smoke.

Unless you're 14.

Then you'd be like, you want to go meet and smoke?

That'd be the only time.

We'll meet by that tree and we'll go smoke.

But how many can you smoke?

I don't know.

So that's hilarious.

So this woman who's legally blind said she last talked with how the hell does a blind person and a deaf person talk to each other?

I mean,

you can't see.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

It makes an amazing

thing.

You get Sheen Wilder in there and you got something, Richard Pryor.

What are you, deaf?

Yeah, motherfucker.

Yeah.

So these two, their conversation, I would pay to watch, first of all,

as I would pay to watch that movie.

So

she said that she talked with Linda on Thursday.

She said when I went over, She didn't discuss any problems she was having or say anything was wrong.

She said she was going to see her parents and her son this past weekend.

I don't know if she ever saw them.

See, that's why a lot of people didn't look for Linda over the weekend is because she said she was going to her parents that weekend to see her son.

So they expected her to be gone.

Wow.

But then when she did

bought herself three days in death without being found.

Yep.

And when she wasn't showing up for class, that's when they were like, okay, she should be back.

She said, I'm going to miss Linda a lot.

I miss her company already.

And her roommate said he also, he's also blind, this guy, Anthony Handrick.

He said he occasionally talked to Sherry

who was also into art she also draws and she's also an artist and he said he spoke with her briefly Thursday which was the 19th before she disappeared before she was murdered and he said she said she was fixing to draw

not like on you she was like gonna make pictures she's gonna draw pictures make some art yeah otherwise someone says they're fixing to draw that means you're you better you better look for

look for cover or draw yourself because you're in deep shit you better watch that clock.

Oh, shit.

It clicks before it strikes.

He said, and that was the last time I saw her.

So the police think they have an idea of what's going on.

They put a thing out in the paper saying two people are being sought in connection with the quadruple murders over the weekend.

Yeah.

Two people.

They said they're looking for Daniel Spence, a 33-year-old man, and Linda Faye Odom, a 32-year-old, both of whom were last seen on February 19th.

Right.

So they think they're together.

The police spokesman said Spence and Odom were last seen driving Linda Jarman's 73 Buick Century.

So she's reported missing the same day.

And

they asked, what's the relationship between them?

And the cops said this, quote, they're missing and the car is also missing in the same timeframe.

You can draw your own conclusions.

In other words, these two are fucking have killed everybody and took off.

They fucked in their blood and then left, probably.

You know how it goes.

So that's what they think happened at this point: that he ended up wanting to be with Linda, who he had a previous relationship with, or with Linda Odom, not Linda Jarman, and then killed these people because he was with Sherry and Linda happened to be there.

And now he's whatever.

That's that's what they're thinking now.

So those two are on the run.

They're looking for a Bonnie and Clyde pair.

So all these interviews that they do with everybody point to Danny Spence because he's dating Sherry and now he's gone.

Right.

And the timing of him being there that night, the not being there and all that kind of shit.

What's the deal?

So they go, well, let's figure this out.

Let's just run his fingerprints through the system anyway and see who are maybe he's got priors or something we can latch on to.

They run his fingerprints based on just going into his apartment and lifting them off of shit.

And they get a completely different result.

His name is

Daniel Spence at all.

His name is Daniel Lee Siebert, S-I-E-B-E-R-T.

And he's wanted in San Francisco.

Would be.

He's wanted for assault in San Francisco.

He has a previous manslaughter conviction in Las Vegas.

We'll talk about that.

And he's considered

in this national database as considered armed and extremely dangerous.

Extremely dangerous.

Not the guy you want to put in to do art at the deaf school.

Yeah.

Not even a guy you want to pick up in Tucson.

No.

That's why you don't pick up hitchhikers, no matter how good they are at drawing.

You still don't fucking pick them up because they're all wanted for manslaughter or some assault or something.

Yeah.

So now who the fuck is this guy?

Yeah.

Because he's a completely different guy now.

It's not Spence.

Yeah.

It's not Spence.

Well, let's talk about his background and where he comes from.

His mom's name is Dorothy Richards originally, Siebert later on.

She was born in 32, 1932, and grew up in the, you know, in the Great Depression in Illinois, just rough times.

She got,

she, I guess, was, her mother was married when she was 15.

That's back, which back then wasn't that abnormal.

You know what I mean?

Dorothy, for reasons we're not sure about, was placed in foster care at age three.

And back then, a lot of people did that because they literally couldn't afford to feed their children.

During the Depression, that was really common to give your kids up because at least the state would feed them.

I can't feed them.

Somebody's got beans and rice somewhere.

Exactly.

Literally, someone's got grain to feed this kid, something.

So,

and her mother was divorced quickly, too.

So, she was like a 17-year-old single mother and with a kid and didn't know what to do and poor as all get out.

So, she just gives the kid away.

Then the mother remarried here.

Dorothy, I'm sorry, remarried here because Dorothy also got married at 15, just like her mom.

She grew up, got married at 15, had a daughter just like her, and got divorced quickly, just like exactly her mom's pattern.

She remarries, though.

It is.

It's crazy.

She remarried Erwin Julius Siebert in 1952.

Now, this guy is about four years older than her.

He's also from Illinois.

He's a twin and one of six children, which is an interesting little psychological something.

He served in the Army in World War II, the very end of World War II.

Yeah.

And in 52, he had just gotten out of the army, and that's when he met and married Dorothy.

He's a truck driver and a real abusive piece of shit.

Oftentimes.

As a PTSD-having truck driver may tend to be sometimes.

That's the thing.

Now, they have together Daniel Lee Siebert.

He'll have many aliases over the years: Danny Spence, Danny Ray Spence, Daniel Marlowe.

He's got a whole bunch of different ones.

What is that?

Where did he get Spence from?

I don't know.

He just decided that's what he wanted to be.

Who knows if he met a guy in Flagstaff who said, I'm Johnny Spence.

And he was like, That's a name I can use.

You never know what he saw.

He saw a sign or a business.

He's from Mattoon, Illinois.

And

Irwin, his dad, is super physically abusive and sexually abusive as well, as we'll talk about.

And that definitely lines up with his future and what he does, things that he does.

He sexually abuses his son?

His own son.

And I'm talking

real nasty shit.

Like, he's the male version of Skidmore Lady last week.

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And the reason

why I find this to be fascinating, not in a good way, but just psychologically fascinating, is the difference between when you do this to a male and when you do this to a female.

When you do this to a woman, a young girl, and you do this to a young man, different things happen.

The woman wanted a baby of her own, and she wanted to do all.

She had all this that she wanted to have, and she was whacked out of her skull, but she wanted to have some sort of, she wanted to have a husband and a marriage and a relationship.

So whatever happened to her affected her that way.

Whereas a man starts murdering people.

And the slightest she feels is based upon

not being able to have something.

So she lashes out by getting what she can't have.

Yes, whereas a man

might go out and say, I'm going to destroy the world.

Destroy things.

Yeah.

Whereas women generally, psychologically, don't usually have that instinct that I'm going to destroy.

Yeah, it's hard.

There's not a lot of Eileen Wernosas out there, is what I'm getting.

Right.

There's

very few villains in Batman.

That are females.

They are.

They're like a cat or a plant or some shit.

They're not

a cat or a plant.

They're not even that evil.

They're just like doing shit.

So

he's very temperamental, the father, and uninterested in spending any time with his family.

Doesn't give a shit about Danny at all.

Nothing.

Dorothy, in the understatement of the year, described her husband as, quote, not an understanding man.

A little difficult.

Wow.

This is crazy.

Dorothy would later say, which they found out wasn't true from friends and family and stuff, he did hit some, but it was mainly his attitude.

Irwin never wanted to spend any time with him.

He didn't want to bother with him.

Now,

I'm not sure at what age he stopped bothering him, bothering with him.

It seemed like when he aged out of sexually abusing him, that's when he went from having at least that much interest in him to zero interest at all.

Didn't even take the time to beat him.

Well, he still beat him, but not sexually.

Not then do other things.

He beat Daniel with a bull whip.

Yep.

He still had scars as an adult from whippings.

Forced him to perform sexual acts, made him walk around in girls' underwear just to embarrass him or whatever the fuck.

Certain times he would tie him up.

He would gag him.

A lot of times while he'd be tied up and gagged, he would urinate on him.

Oh, boy.

It's exactly what happened last week in Skidmore.

He didn't build a special room off the trailer to do it in, but he did everything anyway.

They would pee on her.

That's insane.

It's insane.

So this is a lot.

I mean, he had a lot of shit going on in his childhood.

That's a lot for anybody to endure.

So not only that, they're super fucking poor also and unstable and they move all the time and they're poor and he's molesting him and beating him and peeing on him.

And it's just a horrible life.

So

he's described by everybody as a harsh man who frequently resorted to physical punishment.

His mother insists that the more significant damage was done by his emotional neglect.

That's what hurt Danny more.

But I think if you asked Danny, he'd probably have a different answer.

He would have loved for his father to ignore him if the other option is to beat, whip, and rape me.

I'd rather have you ignore me, thank you.

I'd rather not have hugs or

praise as long as I'm not being raped and systematically tortured.

And peed on.

Yeah.

So

they said he showed no desire to bond with Danny or understand his needs or anything like that, which that would be bad enough alone.

But when you add all the abuse to it, this shockingly causes some behavioral problems for Danny.

Surprising, right?

So, yeah, his mother was more attentive to his needs, but she couldn't ever, according to Danny, ever shield him from from her dad, from the dad.

It was just, he was going to do what he was going to do, and mom would kind of ignore it and then go, oh, no, he's just a little mean.

That's the only way she could get through it, I think, here.

So he would fight with his parents.

He would fight at school.

He would disobey teachers.

He refused to adhere to anything that he's supposed to do.

If it's a test and you have to sit there for 30 minutes, he's just going to get up and leave because you just told him to sit there for 30 minutes.

It's the way he is.

His mother would try to maintain order in the the household, and it didn't work, and everything is just deteriorating.

His only outlet is art.

That's what he's into.

And he really is a pretty talented artist.

He draws pretty well, as we'll show you with his very disturbing pictures that we have later on for you.

Stay tuned for that at the end of the show here.

Oh, by the way, they're for sale if you want some.

So

this is what he really tried to channel shit into art, and this, he described that as an escape from his dad okay so he got into it as a young boy um

basically he would hide from his dad and draw that's what he would do he would learn he said he learned to draw as a way to cope and basically drawing when he was drawing that's all he could concentrate on and he wouldn't worry about the con he usually had a constant fear of being you know abused and beaten But when he was drawing, he couldn't think of all that, all he could think about.

So all that would go away.

Like anybody's, you have an outlet.

You need it.

You know what I mean?

Some kids, it's sports.

Some kids it's

whatever it is.

You know what I mean?

So his talent.

TV, TV, whatever.

Yeah, for us, comedy.

That's what we were into.

Comedy and shows and TV.

That's what all of us

distractions, learning, memorizing people's stand-up and shit.

That's what we did.

He really liked it.

And also later on, it's going to help him because he can pop up and just be like a sign painter, a mural painter,

businesses, especially back then, were all looking for people to draw in the windows and do shit like that.

So

he could end up.

That's the thing.

He could drift and go wherever he wanted to and pick up work as needed, basically.

One night in 1967, Daniel is 13 or 12 at this, not quite 13 yet.

His mother's getting the shit beaten out of him.

out of her from the father.

He decides that he's old enough to try to intervene at this point, which is ballsy for someone who's being abused his whole life too.

So he grabbed Daniel by the throat and choked him till he fell unconscious on the floor.

The father did.

And the mother thought he was dead because he choked him for like two fucking minutes and then dropped him on the floor unconscious.

So he goes, holy fuck, you just strangled our son.

But luckily he was just unconscious.

So she the next day filed for divorce.

You can beat him, you can rape him, you can piss on him, you can beat me, but when you all, when

when I think you killed our son, it's over.

So she said that that was like the main thing was he choked the kid and all that kind of thing.

So Dorothy gets custody.

Daniel says after the divorce, she had numerous boyfriends and he hated it.

Made him very uncomfortable.

And Daniel's father remarried.

And

their relationship got even worse after that because now he wanted even less to do with him, the father.

now that it's not even this lady's kid.

His mother ended up getting remarried as well, but that didn't help either.

It just, he didn't feel, Daniel never felt like he was part of this, either household at that point.

Part of the family, yeah, yeah.

Which is hard.

I know how that feels.

It sucks.

So he ran away at age 12 at first.

That's when he first started running away.

Develops some severely anti-dissocial behaviors, starts committing petty crimes, stealing, never shows up at school.

Back then, that was truancy.

That was a crime.

And he gets really into doing PCP as well.

Hell yeah.

What age?

Teenager, real into it.

Yeah.

Which, if you have problems already,

PCP will both alleviate and cause some new ones all at once.

Exacerbate and fix at the same time.

Alleviate and exacerbate all at the same time.

So he starts committing tons of burglaries to buy more PCP as well.

It's a mess.

The kid's a mess.

So his mother eventually decided to have him committed to a state youth home, which is juvy, essentially, in 1968.

So he's, you know, 14, saying

he never goes to school.

He's got terrible behavior.

He's stealing shit.

He's always getting arrested and in trouble.

And they reported that local law enforcement said Daniel had been involved in petty theft and other nonviolent offenses at the time.

So no violence yet, just thefts and little things.

They said he developed a habit of running away from home, which is why his mother wanted to put him somewhere where he couldn't run away.

So he has no adult supervision because he's just on the run half the time.

He became just a drifter.

He would hitchhike as a child.

They would find him two states over when he ran away.

He's just getting the fuck as far away as possible.

He said he, his mother said he would disappear for long periods of time, only occasionally making contact with her, just literally to go, just want to let you know I was alive.

And he hangs up on her.

Which is still,

I mean, honestly, it's probably more than she's owed at this point, you know, or either of his parents are owed.

If I was him, I'd be like, let these motherfuckers worry.

They probably don't care.

So, you know, that's what I would think.

But he would just wander and never have any.

never set any roots anywhere.

So he's in and out of the Illinois Department of Corrections boys' home from 68 to 71, multiple escape attempts.

All of them they'd find him two states over or, you know, all the way over here or somewhere.

He's also getting much more antisocial.

And I mean the clinical antisocial, not he doesn't like people.

I mean it's antisocial behavior.

He's got a real rebelliousness, hates authority.

He's always in trouble with the law.

He began to display an interest in

more serious shit, violent things.

Up to this point, it was petty thefts, anything he could get away with, and nobody would catch him or just thievery mainly.

He's pushing the boundaries.

Now he's starting to get a little bit weird.

And at the same time.

Yeah, at the same time.

So now he's like 17, 1971.

He's out of this home.

He's addicted to PCP.

And

he starts turning tricks just to get by at 17.

Whoa.

Yeah.

And not with women, obviously.

Obviously.

Men, with whoever will pay for it.

Yeah.

And this, by the way, is one of his main kind of psychological

factors, I guess, here is

he's not straight.

He's not gay.

He's not even bisexual.

He's a shapeshifter.

He's like a fucking alien.

He's like if an alien came from a planet and was like, what was that movie in the 90s where the alien would turn into different shit and like it was like a hot chick and then you know turn into a dude and whatever there was a movie in the 90s about doesn't matter either way i'm trying i'm trying to it doesn't matter doesn't matter either way he's like an alien that comes down and is like can turn into whatever somebody wants at the time what they need to suck the life out of them and that's what it is if it's a guy and he needs to get money and a car or things from a guy, well, then he's gay for a minute.

If it's a woman and he needs a place to stay and he needs stuff from her, now now he's a straight man and he's totally fine with that.

And it's not like he likes both.

He doesn't really like either.

He's whatever benefits him in this situation.

Yeah.

He's so broken that he doesn't even have his own sexuality.

He's just doesn't even know what it is at this point.

Yeah.

Just uses it to get

and to benefit and to

fool people too.

Yeah.

So the other, through all this, though, he's a really good artist.

His mother recalled that he's an accomplished artist.

He's really skilled in creating lifelike portraits and other works.

You'll see how lifelike it is at the end, by the way.

It's weird.

I can't wait.

I'm fucking riveted.

So that's like the only positive aspects of his life is that people would see his art and be like, oh, you're really good at this.

Yeah.

And that was the only positive outlet he had.

So he just starts drifting.

As his artistic talents are developing, he's drifting.

He is constantly in trouble with the law.

He can't maintain any stable relationships with anybody, friends, family, you name it.

Eventually just stops talking to his family completely,

his mom and everything like that.

He's moving around just looking for work.

So 1972,

he decides, you know what, goddamn it?

I'm going to do something with my life.

I'm going to join the Marines.

Is that right?

That's a left turn.

You didn't expect that, did you?

In 1972, he makes that decision.

That's a smart decision in the middle of fucking Vietnam.

I know it was winding down, but people were still getting sent over and killed over there.

That's not good, yeah.

He enlisted in 1972 under the name Daniel Marlowe.

Why not?

Who is that?

Well, I don't think you could join if you had a long criminal record like he had.

So he had to use an assumed name.

You got to be, he had to be somebody else.

Yeah.

And then if you decide to run away, it's not you anyway.

So who cares?

You know what I mean?

So he goes

obviously.

Marlowe did.

Yeah, Danny Marlowe takes off, goes AWOL.

He's dishonorably discharged after 12 months.

They're just like, we're tired of dealing with this fucking guy.

Kicked him out, basically.

Wow.

Booted from the Marines during wartime when no one was signing up and they were drafting people.

They're literally, literally drafting people.

And they were like, you go home, fuck up.

You get out of here.

We don't want to see any pictures of any bullshit.

Just go.

So he turns to crime.

What else is he going to do?

He's got nothing, no other skills except art and crime.

So he piles up.

He heads to California at one point here, piles up a pretty good record, a criminal record in Los Angeles of drug charges, batteries, assaults.

You name it.

Just tons of stuff working on that.

Running the gamut, sure.

Does some more drifting here,

just living.

totally transient, working as an artist here and there, traveling across the United States, painting murals, painting people's portraits.

He'll go on the street if it's a busy area or something.

He'll go on the street and do caricatures and shit, whatever he has to to make ends meet.

And the fact that he's a really good artist allows him to make a lot of connections with people.

And connections.

People trust a good artist.

They like a good artist.

So

the problem was people would take him in, but then he would act like himself and act all crazy and unstable and then they wouldn't want anything to do with him anymore.

And then he'd be upset and mad that they don't like him.

So it's a hard thing here.

Also, struggling with authority, obviously, never

gets arrested, ignores court dates, does shit like that, changes jobs all the time.

Nice.

Just drifts, doesn't share any details about his experiences or relationships with his family or anything like that.

He's just a mess.

His mother later said that

he would call to check in, but that would be it.

He'd just go, yeah, I'm alive.

Bye.

Click.

Fuck you.

1973 to 1975.

he fathers two children.

What?

Not the guy you want having kids.

Just left it in there, I think, is how you, mainly.

Do I have to?

This is Jimmy.

Yeah.

Let me tell you where babies come from.

Hold on.

We're going to take a sidebar here.

We're going to tell Jimmy where babies come from.

How does he convince somebody to stick around long enough when he's clearly unstable?

He kept it together for a minute.

I don't know if he kept it together.

We don't know if they're from the same woman.

We don't know if they're from two different women.

We don't know if he might have had a stable relationship for a minute where he impregnated a couple people, but he's got a son and a daughter.

We don't know anything about what happens to the daughter, even her name, which is probably for the best for her.

The son, though, Damien, ends up in prison for child molestation.

So guess what?

What do you think happened to Damien?

Right.

Yeah.

I mean, you know what I mean?

With this guy, what do you think?

Shit rolls downhill, right?

Right, but with the way his life is, too,

who knows

where they left him?

Yeah.

Well, who knows where he was left?

The mother thinks Danny Spence or Danny fucking Siebert's a good guy to have a relationship with.

So who knows if her judgment's lacking also?

Or if he molested his kid, too.

You never know.

Sure.

We don't know.

Quick clarifier, too, because last time we were talking about something like this, I had a long message from a guy, and he was talking about how

he misunderstood me, essentially.

I wasn't ever saying that everyone who gets molested turns into molesters.

That's never what I said.

I was saying that most of the people that are molesters were molested.

That doesn't mean that.

Or in an environment where molestation took place.

Yes.

It's almost 100%.

Calm down.

But

it's not all molesters molest and are all molested people molest at all.

I was just saying the people who do go on to molest have a past of being molested a lot of the time, most of the time.

Or in an environment where

It's just the way.

Yes.

How else do they learn it?

This person was telling me, was saying that, like, they thought I meant that if you're molested, you'll definitely be a molester.

And they were like, my psychologist wife disagrees with all this shit.

I was like, listen, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

I don't have time to explain it, but there.

Because they molested, I'll tell you that it really feels weird.

And it's very difficult to have a relationship with any child because you have weird feelings about it.

You always feel that people are looking at you funny.

It's fucked up.

I would assume so.

It fucks your head up entirely.

And anybody that disagrees with that

in box meeting.

We'll talk about that.

I'll talk to your psychological wife.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

So, yeah, he's got two kids.

One of them will end up in prison.

So we don't know what the hell happened.

I mean, he named him Damien.

In the mid-70s, right after Omen came out.

That's on purpose.

That's 100% on purpose.

Yeah.

That's him going, haha, that'll teach everybody.

Fuck you, people.

So, January 1979,

24 years old, not quite 25 yet.

He's in a relationship now with a man.

See what I mean?

He has no, there is no, and it's not bi either.

It's literally whatever's convenient to, it's not even pan.

Not even like, it's just opportunist.

That's what he is.

Shapeshifter.

That's the best way I can describe it.

Sexual opportunist.

Doesn't have sexual feelings, I don't think, for people like that.

He just has,

this is how, you know, whatever.

I can use this for other things.

One night, this relationship goes off the fucking rails.

Apparently, here he, and we'll find more details later, but he stabs this man 29 times.

He stabs the boyfriend?

29 times and kills him.

Is that the one in Vegas?

That's in Vegas, yes.

And

he claims self-defense.

Of course he does.

With 29 stab wounds, which is, yeah, he kept coming, man.

He's a man.

It's Jason Voorhees.

I was fucking.

Don't you understand?

Toughest man alive.

And when the cops came in and found them, he was laying next to the guy naked.

Weird.

Which was pretty weird.

Now, he is convicted somehow because of the self-defense thing.

It is muddled enough.

And it's 1979.

So I think people were just like, ah, two gay guys.

I don't know what the hell they do.

One of them must have punched the other one and then he threw one back.

I don't know.

So they just go, manslaughter is good enough.

And he is sentenced to, you, sir, may fuck off, 10 years in prison.

Wow.

29 times.

That's why I just give a year.

Yeah.

She should have per stabbed.

She should have claimed self-defense and said, I had to get rid of him, so I just took him apart.

And I was scared.

She could have done that.

I was was scared without her own words she might have gotten off yes that's the truth

so december of 1990 or 1981 he is on work release

two years after unbelievable stabbing someone 29 fucking times um

he escapes from work release because that's what he does and he kidnaps and rapes a woman in california what

yes so he heads right back to cali and ends up kidnapping and raping a woman that he ended up

had a ride with at that point.

Then he goes to San Francisco

and there's a woman up there.

We don't know her name, but

she is

he's driving

and she's in his car in the passenger seat.

He kidnapped her.

Right.

So he's got a kidnap victim in his car.

They are on the Golden Gate Bridge.

Oh.

Driving across the Golden Gate Bridge, I assume toward Marin County where the woods are, where he can fucking take her and dump her.

Yeah.

She fucking jumps out of the moving vehicle on the Golden Gate Bridge, which you can imagine caused gets some attention.

That's a spectacle.

Yeah.

She literally jumps from a moving car, tumble and screaming, help me, help me, while he fucking takes off.

That is terrifying.

If it happened in an action movie, you'd be like, not even believe it.

Bullshit.

She's going to get run over by all the, yeah.

Bullshit.

So Danny, she goes, everybody sees this.

They help her.

The cops come.

So now they're after him.

He is captured in Oakland the next day.

Wow.

Now,

for assault and rape and kidnapping and all of this and escape,

he has one year added to his sentence.

I mean, if you're going to compare it to 29 stab wounds, I guess it's not as bad or something, but wow.

It's pretty

unbelievable.

Pretty lenient.

So he is paroled in 1985.

Seems like a perfect candidate for parole.

There we go.

Yeah.

Although the general, we've talked about this before, but the general idea is to release people before they're dated out so you can keep an eye on them for a few more years and give them extra charges and take them back.

Yeah.

The only condition of parole is that he appear in San Francisco to go to court for those kidnapping charges that he has.

He doesn't ever show up for that, obviously.

That's why he's still wanted years later for

the kidnapping there.

So that's a parole violation.

So he flees from that.

And that is when he decided to leave and go hitchhike across the country.

And that's how he ended up in Tucson

with Hendren picking him up.

Hendren had no idea that that's where he was coming from.

Just got out of parole and was escaping kidnapping court in San Francisco.

Unbelievable.

He just saw a guy with an artist fucking case and said, oh, look at you.

We're friends.

Messy guy with some colored pencils.

Yep.

Jesus Christ.

Now, February 25th, 1986, back to the present here.

Cheryl Evans, who's 19, is found strangled as well.

A 19-year-old woman is found strangled.

Now, the police say that she was involved in prostitution, but that's never been confirmed, and nobody knows if that's true.

And for them, if she might have, who knows if she turned a trick once in a while, they consider that full-blown, you know.

That's a whole lifestyle.

Full-blown pretty woman now.

That's all it is.

But we don't know that, whether it happened or not.

But they find her strangled in Calhoun County.

Okay.

March of 86.

They find a cream-colored 1973 Buick.

Century?

Century.

That's the one.

Found abandoned near Elizabethtown, Kentucky.

Dang, that's a ride.

That's a ride.

Now, by the way, Calhoun County is going north out of Alabama is where they found that.

So Elizabethtown, Kentucky, hundreds of miles away.

Inside, a black purse is found containing a receipt with the name Sherry Weathers on it.

Okay.

Also found in the car was a brass key which matched

Danny Siebert's door locks.

Oh.

So now her stuff and his stuff are both in the car.

All together in her car.

So like, that's interesting.

Then about 100 yards away, they find way more interesting stuff.

They find an abandoned campsite.

Oh.

They found business cards bearing the name Daniel Spence and the address of the Porter Building apartments.

Various photographs of Sherry Weathers.

A mailgram, a mailgram addressed to Don Hendren,

connect everybody evil a little more.

Yeah.

A birth certificate bearing the name Danny Ray Spence.

I don't know where he got that made fake.

He's an artist.

Maybe he made it.

The other items bearing the name Daniel Spence, two sheets of white paper on which appeared the names of Sherry Weathers, Chad Weathers, and Joseph Weathers, just written down.

Her kids, yeah.

And an art pad bearing the name Sherry Weathers.

Her art pad.

It's her.

He didn't draw Sherry Weathers.

It was her pad.

They also found

about 30 pairs of women's panties as well.

30 pairs.

30 pairs.

nobody has that many, right?

No, he's been stealing those, I feel like just grabbing them off clotheslines or whatever.

But 30 pairs of panties, several pairs of panty hose, a bikini-type bathing suit, a black negligee, and a half slip.

Yeah, he's running out of

clotheslines.

Yeah, clotheslines.

These are trophies.

There's also a bed spread and other items that are linked to Linda Jarman's apartment.

Okay.

So now we have in this are things connected to Danny

and two different murder victims

and the guy that drove him to town.

Looking bad for Danny.

Then they find two fingerprints and a palm print, and those are identified as belonging to Daniel Siebert.

Then they take the shoe print that they found at Sherry Weather's house, her apartment, and

they compare it to some of the shoe prints from Danny's Porter building apartment and find a perfect match in

tread and size.

It's a certain type of boot.

Also, this is disturbing, in his apartment, a child's pajama bottom was found there.

Oh, I don't like that.

No, I don't like that.

This is what I mean.

He's a fucking predator.

That's all he is.

He's just a predator, a drooling fangs, drooling from the fangs fucking predator.

So, are they ever going to find this fucking guy?

Because they have no idea where he went.

They have no clue.

What are you going to do?

So,

the detective who was the first one on the scene, Eugene Jacks, said each day when you went to work, the first thing you did was start checking tips and leads of the possibility of where Siebert was.

There wasn't a day that went by that you didn't do something on the Siebert case.

It's interesting.

He assigned one investigator to solely maintain contact with people in Siebert's address book.

Keep calling him.

See if he contacted.

He builds a rapport with one of Siebert's ex-girlfriends in Las Vegas.

Okay.

And the ex says, I promise you if he calls, I'll let you know.

Thank you.

Yeah, right.

Thanks a lot.

So the district attorney, Robert Rumsey, said, we spent six months and no telling how many trips with the investigators running down every little lead that they could come up with.

He's in the wind.

We don't know where he is, but we knew eventually somebody's going to die until he's caught.

This guy ain't going to stop killing people.

Because

the other body they found on the 25th, they assume that that's his too.

Probably.

It's also like on the road to Elizabethtown.

So they're like, yeah, it works.

So what the fuck's Daniel up to on the run?

Where is he?

Well,

March 8th, 1986, he encounters a woman named Beatrice McDougal, who's 57, in Atlantic City, New Jersey.

He's all the way up there.

All the way the fuck up there.

He is mobile.

I mean,

with or without a car.

How the fuck is he doing it?

He probably stole another car.

That's what he does.

So Beatrice is 57.

She's from Schenectady, New York originally.

Poor lady.

She's a mother of three and worked as a tour bus guide in Atlantic City, New Jersey.

Sure.

Now, her kids are all grown up.

So everybody described her as just coming into her own and out of her shell once her kids got out of the house and she started to live a life.

She was like a housewife and raised her kids that way.

And now she gets to go out and do stuff.

And she's known for being real easygoing and kind, as opposed to those surly tour guides you usually get.

So, yeah, she was preparing a hospitality room at the hotel.

That's what she was doing for the guests who were going on this tour to, you know, come in and get a snack or whatever and leave coffee up or whatever.

Yep.

So Siebert thought, hmm, tour guides carry cash.

Because back then they would.

You'd pay the tour guide.

So he

comes into the room she's in, the hospitality room.

She, friendly, thinking, oh, here's another person who wants to join the tour.

Instead, he says, how about I stab you twice in the stomach instead?

Yeah.

Then that didn't kill her, so he strangles her as well.

Whoa.

And robs her.

also.

And her body was found in a different hotel room in Atlantic City, like in the building.

So I don't know how the hell he did that.

This is crazy.

So that's what he's doing.

March 10th,

he has some issue here.

He has a run-in with the police in Atlantic City and uses a social security card to identify himself rather than a driver's license

bearing the name of Chad Weathers.

That's the child.

That's a five-year-old child that he murdered.

That's who he says.

That's me.

I'm Chad Weathers.

The cop doesn't run the Social Security number

and just goes, yeah, whatever, and lets him go.

Yep.

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Now back to the show.

This is crazy.

This is fucked.

Where does he think he's going to go?

Somewhere, March 30th, 1986.

A cemetery outside of Talladega.

A skeleton is found above ground.

Oh, boy.

Yeah, those are all fine if they're in the dirt in the cemetery.

When you find one above ground,

there's either someone got murdered or they're escaping and we need to run.

One of the things that's a lot of them.

You rarely get your eyes on them.

No.

So they find a completely decomposed body and dental records confirm it's Linda Faye Odom, the one who they thought was his accomplice.

No, no, no.

He murdered her that day also.

Yeah.

A long fucking time ago, dumped her out.

That's the garbage bags he was putting in his trunk.

It was her fucking body.

In front of the boyfriend and said, yeah, this is stuff I'm taking back to my ex.

Wow.

That is fucked up.

She's been dead since February 19th.

She was the first victim.

She has been beaten so fucking horribly, by the way.

Even mostly skeletonized, you can tell.

She's been savagely beaten

and just dumped.

Somehow, she wasn't found for over a month in a cemetery.

A body.

How about that?

So when you get buried, that's how much you're visited.

Yes.

Nobody gave a fuck.

Nobody gives a fuck about the cemetery.

No, that is sad, too.

June 14th, 1986.

June.

They found her in March 30th.

He's still fucking gone.

How does this guy keep escaping?

June 14th, 1986, he is arrested.

Sort of.

Yeah.

He's arrested for.

He's arrested for car theft

in Virginia.

And he uses Joey Weathers, the four-year-old's Social Security card as his ID.

It's they don't run it.

It's just enough for him to be able to get bail, make it, and fucking bounce and get out of town.

Yep.

So they had him in handcuffs and let this motherfucker go.

Processed.

Sitting in a cell.

Wow.

And they went, let him go.

A $500 bond, $50, and you're out of here.

Are you kidding me?

Think about that shit.

They had him.

This is why we say we make fun of bumbling police.

You had him.

You had a fucking

serial killer.

Yeah.

Right in your midst.

Child killer.

You're booking a man with a social security card, his ID?

Yes.

And letting him go.

You shouldn't be able to let that man go until

you have confirmation who he is.

At least run his prince.

Yeah.

But his prince, back then, you can't just run him right through the computer.

They took him a while.

So he made bail before they even ran his prince, probably.

That's the problem.

They looked at his social security card, ran ran that, no record there, not wanted anywhere.

There you go.

Good enough.

So, yeah, because Joseph Charles Weathers wasn't wanted because he was four.

Right.

But he doesn't have a record yet.

No record.

Yeah.

August of 1986, he is in Baltimore now.

He's almost arrested.

He assaults a woman, apparently in front of other people.

And they try to hold him there till the cops arrive, but he escapes from these people and runs away.

Okay.

Yes.

And he's been using Chad and Joey's Social Security cards wherever he goes.

A criminologist later said, quote, by possessing these children's names, by presenting yourself as them, you are owning them, you're possessing them, possessing them, they are yours.

Right.

So it's more than just a matter of convenience.

It's also

an ownership thing.

Yes.

He gets it all out of that.

September 3rd, 1986.

This is too much time.

Yeah.

Remember that girlfriend in Las Vegas that the investigator made friends with there?

She calls on September 3rd and said, quote, Danny just called me.

Oh.

And they said, where the fuck was she?

Was he?

Did he tell you?

And she said, no, he wouldn't say where he was.

Great.

That's useless.

They said, is there anything you can tell us?

And they said, well,

He told her what time it was, so it had to be in the central time zone.

Okay.

because it was in central the time was two hours or whatever an hour from west coast time she said so the the call only lasted two minutes so i didn't get a real chance to get into it with him but i know he was in central time and i can i could hear thunder and rain in the background i think that's good so anywhere in the central time zone and with rain which is not really narrowing it down too good Well, at a certain time, you could probably check some weather records and figure out where there was rain.

Well, Eugene Jacks, the detective, said to his assistant, go call the National Weather Service.

Yeah.

Find out where it's raining and thundering in the central time zone.

If it's 20 places hundreds of miles apart, obviously we're fucked.

But let's give it a shot.

The answer, Tennessee.

The only place it's happening right now.

The only place with a storm.

The only Tennessee had storm.

The only place in the central time zone that had storms that night was western Tennessee.

Okay.

That's it.

They said the phone company then takes all of these calls, the call from her that came in and traces that.

They say it can take weeks to trace in 1986, but they have the state narrowed down so they can get it quicker.

That's great.

They said it's in fucking Tennessee.

Yeah.

So it takes only a few days to find a pay phone at a convenience store in Hurricane Mills, Tennessee.

Nice name.

70 miles west of Nashville, population 200.

Wow.

Little tiny, dinky fucking town that happened to be thundering and raining outside.

So now they know where he is for now.

Who knows?

Two days ago.

Yeah.

So September 4th,

they said that they started assembling their team to go there.

The district attorney said, no question, we were key up.

This was a live hit now.

Yeah.

So they get the team together.

It's the attorney there, the DA.

They get Eugene Jacks, the detective and investigator, Dennis Surat, and the Tennessee Board of Investigation or Bureau of Investigation.

All these people are involved.

They arrive in Hurricane Mills at night.

Now, there's a restaurant in Hurricane Mills.

There's

not a lot of places.

There's no mall or anything to go ask around.

So they go to the restaurant.

Figure if people are hanging out here, they probably come to this restaurant.

So they show him Siebert's photo.

And the guy said, yeah, he's been painting some signs for me.

Great guy.

Good dude.

He said, yeah, no, he'll be in here in the morning to collect his check.

That's great.

So they're like, awesome.

We're going to hang out.

We'll be here too.

Yeah.

We'll be here too.

So Dennis Surat said, an investigator said, everybody's upbeat.

Everybody's tired, but everybody's upbeat.

I don't think a single one of us even took a nap that night.

No.

They've been months overtime.

Every minute of their day has been on this.

We're about to have him.

Yep.

So they just sit out in the dark.

They go out in some road somewhere and just sit in their cars and wait for morning, basically.

So at dawn,

they're converging around the restaurant and Detective Jacks said, it's hard to describe what it was like sitting there waiting for him to come around the building.

But I'd always wondered if I'd recognize him when I saw him.

When he rounded the corner of that building, there was no doubt in my mind that's him.

There he is.

So

they wait for Siebert to enter the convenience store, then they all rush in.

Okay, because it's easier to get him in a confined area than somewhere he could run.

You know what I mean?

So they go in, guns drawn.

He's not there.

Where'd he go?

Did we spook him, they're thinking?

Did he run out the back door?

He's in the back door.

So they go, Clerk silently points to the restroom.

Yeah.

Six officers with weapons drawn burst into a tiny men's room where he's taking a shit.

They kick open his stall door.

He's literally sitting on the fucking stall with his pants down and says, quote, quote, how'd y'all find me?

Well, it's a long story, Danny.

There'll be a podcast in about 30 years.

It'll talk all about it.

Don't you worry.

40 years almost.

So

he's arrested.

I don't know if they let him wipe or finish shitting or what, but I mean, what's he going to do?

Escape down the drain.

So that's one you got to kind of.

All right.

Well, you finish shitting then.

You just sit there with your gun drawn.

So he's arrested.

At the time he's arrested.

In his possession, he has a social security card with Joey Weather's name on it, a torn manila envelope, also on which appeared

without the W, just Ethers Joseph.

So he had like all of his info in a folder he was carrying.

The detective Jacks said,

Man alive.

You can't even imagine the relief you feel.

He actually said, Man alive.

Man alive.

Wow.

I don't think I've ever heard someone actually say that.

Exasperated

in an interview, he said, Man alive.

Man alive.

Isn't that weird?

Man alive.

I used to say it all the time, and it was my favorite.

I still say it from time to time.

Norman McDonald, it was his favorite.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

He said it as a joke.

Yeah.

Because it was an old-timey.

He liked old-timey phrases.

That's why.

Yeah.

It was perfect.

Man alive.

That sounds like Jeepers or something.

It's funny.

It's funny.

He said, man alive, you can't imagine the relief you feel.

We've got him.

He's not going to hurt anybody else.

And you're thinking of Sherry and you're thinking of the babies and Linda and Linda Odom.

Okay, we can can put everybody to rest now.

It's the best feeling in the world.

Yeah.

It is.

But now they got to find out what he's been, whatever he's doing.

Where's he been?

Yeah.

So, and what's he going to be like?

When you get this guy in there, what's he going to be like, you think?

You know what I mean?

He's not real good with authority.

So is he going to tell them to go fuck their mothers?

Is he going to

just lie?

Is he going to stoneface them or stonewall them and just not say shit?

Just say, lawyer?

What's he going to do here?

So he's had a lot of kind of experience in the legal system, so he knows he's

a lawyer.

So in custody, he says, this is in custody up in Tennessee, too.

They haven't even taken him back home yet.

He says, I don't want a lawyer.

I don't want any bullshit.

I'll talk.

I'll talk right now.

I'll tell you everything you want to know.

Okay.

They're like, okay.

Yeah.

Sure.

They think he's going to lie, but there he goes.

Detective Jack.

He's just going to tell us everything about the car theft.

Yeah.

Or, yeah, I stole.

I broke broke in and stole Linda's kids' information so I could go around the country and whatever the fuck.

Detective Jack said he wasn't concerned at all, showed no emotion whatsoever, never shed a tear.

You could tell there was no concern in him about what he had done.

He is cold as fucking ice, this guy.

Doesn't have a his feelings were tortured out of him as a kid, and he doesn't have them anymore.

That's all there is to it.

So, first of all, he says, yeah, Linda Fay Odom.

Yeah, I strangled her.

That's what happened to her.

The one you found in the cemetery?

Yeah, I strangled her in her boyfriend's apartment.

Oh, boy.

We went back there after he took off to get his car.

And then he moved her body to his own apartment and then took her, carried her over there, then took her to the cemetery and dumped her.

So this guy risked moving the body twice.

Balls.

He also said about her, he doesn't know why, but he strangled her and beat her to death.

He said, but after she was dead and after I took her home, I just kept beating her.

Kept beating the dead body.

Kept beating a dead woman, not a dead horse, a dead woman.

Kept just beating her.

She was already dead.

It didn't make any sense.

And he said, I don't know.

I just kept beating her.

Couldn't stop beating her.

I knew she was dead, kept beating her anyway.

And they said, why?

Why'd you do all this?

And he said, she's a racist.

Is she?

She's black.

And she's saying that he's saying that she was racist against him, but they doesn't make any sense.

They were hanging out having lunch and had a relationship also.

They kind of hooked up a little bit.

So

this doesn't sound that racist to me.

Whoever you fuck, it's hard to be racist against.

So anyway, he said, I borrowed Linda's car, returned to my apartment.

lowered Linda Odom's body out of the back window with a sheet.

Whoa.

He put her body in a sheet, then lowered it out the back window, and nobody saw somebody lowering a corpse from their window.

The balls on this guy, man.

They just dropped her into somebody else's car.

Yeah, put her into Linda Jarmin's car and dumped it off Alabama Route 77 near, oh, wow.

Ohatchee?

Ohatchee, I guess is that's how that's said.

Now,

he said he went to the Sherry Weather's apartment then that evening.

Sure.

And

this was after Fettis had already left.

Fettis said he left around midnight.

So this was, he was gone all night.

He came back and he said he had a key.

Sherry had given him a key.

Yeah.

So he just let himself in,

which was fine.

They were expecting him.

So Sherry and Linda were there.

Everybody was hanging out.

And eventually Linda Jarman left.

He said, as he and Sherry were walking toward the bedroom with Sherry in front of him,

he said he just, he had a piece of cloth on him.

Just wrapped it around her neck.

And he just strangled her from behind, just decided to strangle her right then.

She didn't do anything.

There was no reason.

It was just he already killed somebody else and he's going to go on the run, so he might as well kill more.

So then he kills her

and leaves her.

Now, the boys are both asleep at this point.

He could literally walk out the door and that's it.

The boys would never know the difference.

They weren't awake or there or anything.

Instead, he goes and one at a time wakes the boys up and murders them.

And brings them out there.

Brings them out there and said, that's why the first one, he said, come on and join your mother and then said, come join your mother and brother.

Yeah.

It was after he killed the first one.

He said that.

That is fucking insane.

He woke the kids up.

Couldn't just murder them while they were sleeping even.

He woke them up to murder them.

That is...

Couldn't even just...

Couldn't just leave them alone.

Leave what they're already.

Just leave them alone.

Just walk out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's it.

You didn't have to do anything.

So that is

insane.

But he needed...

Was that maybe his idea was, I'm going to take all their identity and I'll just go be the boys now?

You have to, I guess.

Motivation.

That's what I think the whole motivation for even knowing Sherry was, was there's two identities I can steal possibly.

So

yeah, he took the kids out there where they would then saw their dead mother mother and then dead brother and then strangled them that way.

He arranged the bodies, the children stacked on top of their mother in the shape of a cross and covered them with the sheet.

They go, why'd you do that?

He went, I don't know.

It's just fun.

Yeah, which there's some more significance to it, but he doesn't want to get into it.

That's something.

Yeah,

people don't pose bodies for no reason.

No.

There's a reason to be

not in a psychologically

right on sight.

Yep.

There's something in their brain that wanted them to do that, but he's not interested in talking about that because he's got all sorts of other shit to talk about.

So he said he left town in Linda's car.

He said he abandoned it in Kentucky after it had two flats.

Can't go much farther with that.

So he said he set up the campsite that they found, all the panties and all that shit at.

He set up that campsite.

He stayed there for a couple days and then headed northeast in an attempt to get as far away from Alabama as he possibly could.

That's what he was trying to do.

They go, they said, why did you kill Sherry Weathers?

It doesn't sound like you had to kill Sherry Weathers.

He said, and I quote, because she was deaf and would never amount to anything.

Huh?

I think she was doing fine, man.

There's that actress who has like fucking Emmys and shit.

Like, she does great.

There's plenty of deaf people that do.

Yeah, Marlene Matt.

She's great.

That's a great actress.

She's funny.

She was the deaf lineswoman woman on Seinfeld.

Very funny.

So

then they said, okay,

that's insane and fucked up and

weird and shit.

But why the children?

You didn't have to kill the children.

And he said, wow, this is fucking insane.

They wouldn't amount to anything because they didn't have a mother.

Because you killed her.

Yeah.

You fucking lunatic.

And when asked about the whole thing,

they said, well, what did they say?

Were they trying to, you know, talk you out of it?

What happened?

He said, quote, Sherry didn't have anything to say.

Joey didn't have anything to say.

Chad didn't have anything to say.

And I don't have anything to say.

And I don't have anything to say.

Wow.

My God.

A criminologist that studied him said, if there's anything that could be more heartless, more utterly revolting, more depraved than that remark, I've yet to hear it.

I don't know what to say.

That's

horrifying.

They didn't say anything because the kids probably were used to not talking much around the house because mom's deaf.

Yeah.

Sign language would be the thing.

I don't have anything to say.

It's a horrific noise that you heard, though.

Unbelievable.

Wow.

So he's extradited back to Alabama.

Yeah.

And that's when he continues confessing.

Giving it up.

Keeps talking.

Yeah.

Keeps talking.

They find out about Linda Jarman now.

He said he walked to her apartment after he killed Sherry and the kids.

Yeah.

He killed Sherry and the kids and walked over to her apartment and tells her that he and Sherry had a fight.

Can he sleep on her couch?

So she said, sure, why not?

Of course you can.

We were just all laughing.

So they all sat down, the two of them sat down and drank some Thunderbird, literally.

If you don't know what Thunderbird is, it's cheap wine.

If you've never been really poor and drunk, Thunderbird's cheap, awful wine.

It's like, huh?

Yeah.

Like in The Wire, or not in The Wire, in the Homicide Book, when they're in like the worst part of Baltimore looking through this guy, this guy who's a total scumbag and they think killed a 12-year-old girl.

His place is disgusting and he's gross and everything's gross.

They found a big stain on the floor.

And dude scraped it up and smelled it.

And they go, is it blood?

And he goes, that ain't blood.

That be Thunderbird.

That's what the guy told him.

And it was.

It was Thunderbird.

So that's who drinks Thunderbird.

Guys who may have killed children and live in fucking abandoned buildings.

That's what they're drinking.

So they drank some Thunderbird and laid down on the couch.

And he laid down on the couch till she went to bed.

After she fell asleep, he went in with a strip of pink cloth and strangled her.

He just carries little bits of cloth with him to kill people.

Lengths of cloth that he could.

That's what I mean.

A sick fuck keeps shit like that.

Ooh, I could strangle strangle someone with this.

I might need this.

So

in her sleep, too, he attacked her.

Wow.

Which is pussy.

So

from the court documents, it said they went to the bedroom, partially clothed, and lay down upon the bed.

See, the newspaper didn't want to put it out, but in the court documents, apparently they were hooking up, was the

was what is thought to have happened here.

So they went in the bedroom.

She was partially clothed, but we don't know that.

That's what he said.

So who knows?

She could have just put her night clothes on, and then he came in the bed.

But he said he laid down upon the bed where he murdered her by strangling her.

And that's when he stole her VCR and her car,

went, lowered the fucking body out of the window, did all that shit.

That's all going on.

Wow, he murdered a woman and left the other one sitting in his plates.

Yes, yes.

He's got a lot of plates spinning right now.

He's got murder plates spinning hard.

So they said, why'd you do this to her?

Why'd you didn't even, you went over there to do it?

Why'd you do it?

He shrugged and said, Needed a car.

Needed a car.

Could have just stole a random car.

Yeah.

Didn't have to do this.

Then they start finding through all of his shit.

They're looking through all of his things and all of his possessions.

And they find something really scary in his apartment.

It's an atlas, a big road atlas.

This is before GPS, big book of maps, and behold.

It is marked with X's and circled X's.

Oh, boy.

The detective Jax said, quote, he said every place there was an X with a circle around it is where he had killed someone.

The X's were just robberies.

Okay.

So they start contacting those jurisdictions, and every single, he's not lying.

Every one of them has a body there.

There's fucking bodies there.

Yeah.

Cheryl Evans, he confesses to.

He's never going to be charged for Cheryl Evans' death because of lack of formal indictment, which makes more sense.

But

he said, by the way, for this murder, he used Donald Hendren's car while Hendren was asleep.

He didn't even know his car was used for a murder.

Oh.

That was because this was before the ones he killed.

Yeah.

Remember, she was found on the 25th of February.

Sure.

He had killed her before that,

a week and a half before that.

Then he starts confessing about others.

Gidget Castro

in 1985, December 85, right before he started hitchhiking.

She's a divorced mother of two and was self-employed, did house cleaning for people.

She also was active in like 1970s activisms.

She was

into like Black Panther rallies and shit like that in the early 70s.

Oh, nice.

He found her in December 1985 and robbed her in Los Angeles.

Her body was found December 26th, 1985, in an alley in Commerce, California.

The problem, they never thought it was anybody else.

They just linked and lumped her in with the Southside serial killer cases.

Oh, wow.

So he got, that was, he was free and clear.

They weren't, they just attributed her to that guy.

They didn't even sleep her.

Yeah.

Think about it.

And instead, they, this is that, it clears clears it from that one and goes on to Danny's because

he knew shit nobody else knew.

So, yeah, he confessed.

This is two Los Angeles detectives came out.

He confessed to them.

He's going to be charged in California, but we'll find out if he ever gets tried.

Yeah.

So again, he murdered her by strangulation.

And again, police claim she's a prostitute, even though there's no evidence of that whatsoever.

Yeah.

So next up, he says, oh, Nessia.

Got to tell you about her, too.

Sure.

Nessia Gail McElwrath, McElrath,

December 1985 again.

He had a busy December.

She was 23 years old

from Los Angeles.

Again, cops say she was a prostitute, never arrested for it.

People said, no, she wasn't.

They just assume anybody found dead in an alley is a prostitute back then.

That's it.

In the 80s.

So he strangled and robbed her.

Her body was found December 19th in a rural area near Castaic, California, which is 20 miles from the south central Los Angeles neighborhood she disappeared from.

Initially, they thought that this,

at first, they thought it had nothing to do with the Southside serial killer because it was away from here, but then they attributed her to him, and then they had to take her off of that list and put him on Danny Siebert's list here.

So, and he had information,

he had the details.

Only the killer would know.

Shit.

Because very little was released publicly.

So now he's charged again in that crime.

Now they said at the end, why the fuck did you do all of this?

What the fuck, man?

You've killed so many people.

Because he said, I'm not even done yet.

I got more.

Yeah.

I believe it.

They said, why?

And he said, needed money.

That's it.

That's it.

I needed a car.

I needed money.

That's it.

He never heard of just stealing shit, apparently.

Or getting a goddamn job.

A goddamn job?

Yeah, that's one thing.

But even if you steal shit, don't kill everybody.

Yeah.

Or get a job.

One of the two.

So

when asked how many people he killed, another shrug.

This guy's big on his shrugs.

He shrugs and said, quote, maybe a dozen, maybe more.

I try to put these things out of my mind.

I'm sure you do.

So they have...

10 confirmed victims they know are his.

And then other ones were, it was so muddled and lack of evidence they don't know, but they suspect that there's 13 and possibly maybe 15.

There's probably 20.

And could be God knows how many.

Could be 50 for all we know, but they're pretty sure there's at least 13.

So the detectives are, number one, horrified, but number two, pretty goddamn psyched to get all this information because they're clear.

They're clear in murder cases.

There's families that are knowing what happened to their fucking daughters.

Things are moving.

So this guy,

Eugene Jackson again,

he said, quote, these people look out for each other.

They had to about the deaf ladies.

When you can't hear danger coming, you rely on your community to keep you safe.

Right.

And he also said about Siebert, a very interesting thing, because he spent a lot of fucking time with him.

Yeah.

talking to him in multiple states.

And he said, if you didn't know what kind of a monster he really was, you could actually like him.

I believe that.

Which meant that he was, that was his mask he could put on.

He's a chameleon.

He'll blend in.

He's a shapeshifter.

I can be cool with the cops.

I can

be sexually attracted to guys.

I can be sexually attracted to women.

I could kill them.

I kill kids.

I need this.

He's just, wow, he is

a scary man.

So the crimes span multiple states, but his prosecutions are going to be concentrated in Alabama, where he faces the death penalty for multiple murders.

So basically, all the other states are going to hold off.

I mean, if he got acquitted in Alabama, obviously he's not going to because he confessed.

But then we can start charging him.

But he's charged in California.

He's not charged in New Jersey.

I think he might be indicted, but not formally, whatever the fuck and however it works.

So why the hell does he do all this?

Why?

Yeah.

Well, they asked this Dr.

Yardley here.

And she did an analysis of his traits.

She said that he exhibited, quote, every possible psychopathic tendency.

Yeah.

All of them, including complete lack of remorse, no conscience, no empathy.

She said some killers are driven by hatred, but he had, that's not him.

He has no hatred.

That's what's fucked up about it.

Killers with hatred, at least there's something in there.

There's a light.

This, she said, he has no compassion or feelings for anyone.

People were just objects to him.

Weird.

Nothing.

He felt nothing.

Nothing even for his father who raped and beat him.

Nothing.

Just dead inside, which you'd have to be to survive that.

You'd have to shut off everything

to survive that.

That's the thing.

And then when you shut off everything, you end up like this.

Yeah.

It's scary.

So

they said that she said this is also evident in his military stint because she said he joined the Marines.

Who's the most tough?

The Marines.

That's the toughest one.

They're the toughest.

I'm going to go to Vietnam and I'm going to join the Marines.

That's the most alpha male tough thing he could do,

this doctor said.

But he went AWOL because he couldn't handle the structure.

He couldn't do it.

He wanted to have all those things, but he couldn't handle being on time and being told where to go and what to do.

It just wasn't a thing.

So

she said that his early crimes, like the 1979 stabbing, She said she framed that as in terms of shame.

He was ashamed of his sexual leanings at that point or

just sexual actions, not necessarily leanings, because he really didn't have any leanings.

She said that he's the most manipulative person who could have ever been born.

She said he could perform like caring behaviors and he knew how to mirror behavior that he should be doing, but he didn't actually feel it.

Oh.

He knew how to outwardly project it and make it look like he feels that.

He saw what people do.

Whoa.

Because he's smart enough to understand.

This is the problem.

You get somebody who's smart like this, they can then put it together intellectually of, okay, when people are acting helpful and nice, that's how they look and act and make eye contact.

That's what I have to do.

Even though I don't feel it or understand it, I get it.

That's what I have to do.

Like he studied them like you would study how to hunt animals.

Oh, you have to get in the tree and then you wait for them to come.

It's the same shit.

It's disturbing.

She said he lacked total genuine emotion.

They said,

you know, they said she examines, and she wrote a book about called Social Media Homicide Confessions in 2017,

where she examines how killers like Siebert curate their image post-crime, too.

Because now once they're caught, now they need an image because everyone knows who they are and they're very famous.

By the way, nobody knows this fucking guy.

This guy is very, very not heard of, which is insane for all he did.

Way too unheard of.

Yeah, that's how crazy how many murderers there are.

So she said she dissects his motives as a mix of rage, envy, and

pragmatism.

I mean, also, I need a car.

I need money.

Yeah.

For the 86 murders in Talladega, all the deaf people and the kids, she said that she had probably had envy towards Sherry Weathers and her children.

who were happy and loving.

And he probably saw that and it pissed him off.

Hated it.

Yeah.

They've got a lot of people.

He was jealous of those kids.

Yeah, and they're still happy.

And nobody's being, these children are being very well taken care of.

And that pisses him off.

Absolutely.

So she said he was probably, he craved that, never had it, and it made him angry.

Now,

they said, what about the post-mortem abuse of Linda Odom's body?

Where he said, I just kept beating her and beating her.

And they said that reflects rage and a sense of control.

Which,

yeah, they said that that had to be what it was.

And opportunism is the reason of killing Beatrice McDougal for money in Atlantic City.

They said that was just for straight money.

He said also he targeted a lot of times, like in California, people on the margins, people who were part-time sex workers, things like that, because

he thought simply society valued them less and they have much better access to them.

You can get to them easy and no one will care if they're gone, basically.

That's what he thought.

She gave this remark

or she talks about that when he said Sherry didn't have anything to say, Joey didn't have anything to say.

She said it was heartless, revolting, and depraved.

And she talks about the road atlas.

Why did he keep a map of this?

What was he going to do?

Go back and look at them?

Like, what are we talking about?

And she said, oh, no, no, not at all.

This was a commemoration of his crimes.

This would be like

a normal family would have like, you know, a magnet on the fridge they bought on vacation or,

you know, things like that.

That's what this is for him.

This is his, you know, his photos from Grand Canyon.

Yeah.

Be by the Abyss or whatever.

Yeah.

Right.

This is his magnet map of the United States with all the, with all the states he's been to.

His game of the states.

He's fitted it in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So the Alabama Institute for the Deaf and Blind had no background check system.

at the time.

Really?

Which is how he got there in the first place.

If they did a background check, they'd know that wasn't him.

So all all they had to do is fingerprint him.

So they said that changed pretty much immediately.

They said they implemented new security measures, including background checks for all employees and volunteers,

restricted access to student housing, mandatory reporting systems, and even self-defense classes for the deaf students because they can't hear anybody coming.

So they'd have people sneak up on them and shit.

And then you'd have to figure out how to deal with that.

So March 1987, he goes to trial.

Linda Jarmin is the first trial for some reason, not sure why.

There's a judge, William C.

Sullivan.

He's going to preside over all of his trials.

So, he's going to hate Danny in a minute here.

He is charged with capital murder because it's during a robbery.

He stole her car, and that's why they're doing it first because he stole her VCR and her car.

And this is an easy death penalty case, pretty much.

So, they spend the first day selecting a jury.

It's 14 total, two alternates, 13 women and one man.

Oh.

I've never heard of that before.

I haven't either, buddy.

He's going to look at that jury and go, uh-oh.

What the fuck?

Then again, though, men are going to be just as mad because

how much of a pussy are you?

You're attacking deaf women and children, you scumbag.

Yeah.

Allegedly.

Allegedly.

So an opening statement.

Well, I've done the whole episode, so I know the outcome.

You calm down.

At this point, it's allegedly.

It's alleged.

So in opening arguments, district attorney said that he killed Linda Jarmin for her car

after he killed Sherry Weathers and her two children and said the evidence will show that he came to Talladega hitchhiking and he was barely here for two months before he had to kill people.

Now, the evidence they show, fingerprint evidence from her car, campsite evidence that we talked about, his detailed confession about about exactly what he did,

and multiple witness testimony placing him with the victim as well.

It's just plea.

It's pretty bad.

They play the tape of him confessing.

It is so matter-of-fact and creepy, dude.

He went to court about this.

Oh, yeah.

He's going to trial.

Wow.

They said, while at Linda Jarman's apartment, did you kill her?

And he said, yes.

This is on the tape they showed.

They said, how did you kill her?

He said, strangulation.

Yeah.

He's just matter of fact as fuck.

Doesn't care.

Just doesn't care.

The medical examiner here testifies about the autopsy.

He said that

no sexual activity was shown in Linda Jarman immediately before her death.

Some of these women, like the ones in California, some of them have been raped by him as well.

Sometimes he rapes and sometimes he doesn't.

So no idea what the psychological thing with that is, but sometimes he rapes, sometimes he doesn't.

Now

When they played this video of all of this, they said that people are getting closer to look at the

screen.

He, though, sat quietly with his head bowed.

I'll read from the paper.

During the screening, Siebert sat quietly with his head bowed and his tattooed left hand pressed against his forehead to shield his eyes from the video.

He twiddled an ink pen with his right hand.

And

Linda Jarmin's older sister said he didn't have the guts to hold his head up and see what he had done.

I think

they should have made him watch it.

If the jury was made to watch it, they should have made him watch it too.

You know, you can't, that's,

there's no, you don't have to do that as a defendant.

You just don't have to.

Yeah, you don't have to do anything, but it looks bad.

Yeah, I was going to say it looks, it looks worse on him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And also, that's why we're sending him to prison because we can't make him do anything else but send him to prison.

That's all we can make somebody do.

So

her friend, Linda Jarmin's friend testified saying her friendly nature is what led to this.

And,

you know, it's fucking horrible.

Her friend said that was the only good thing to come out of this whole thing, the fact that she was just trying to help somebody, a friend.

She was.

She's giving a guy a place to stay,

being a nice lady.

Her mom testifies, Mary Jarmin.

She said her daughter's father died last August.

And she said now she's dead, the youngest of her seven children.

So she said, my husband and now my youngest kid died.

She said she's had to take sleeping medication ever since because she can't sleep and has nightmares and all this shit.

She said that she was told the children had been badly beaten and Mrs.

Weather's apartment had been torn apart.

But her daughter's apartment seemed untouched, she said.

I don't get that.

Why was that one torn apart and mine wasn't?

She said, quote, they found her in bed and thought at first she was asleep.

They said they shook her and said, all right, Linda, it's time to get up now, but she was dead.

She also said, you think Talladega would have been the last place something like this would happen to her.

She started to school in the first grade.

She started to school in the first grade and spent most of her life either in school or working here.

So she should have been safe, essentially.

And her sister described her, described Linda as being very happy just before being killed.

Yeah, it's not going to be happy after.

She said the good side of it all was that she always wanted to make it on her own and wanted

a job and her own car.

We'd always been very protective of her and hadn't wanted her to get a car or an apartment, but she had what she said she'd always wanted and she was very happy.

They didn't want her to live on her own.

Independence, exactly.

So they didn't want her to live on her own.

And

yeah.

So the defense now, the defense's argument is mentally ill, super mentally ill.

He's been abused his whole life in childhood.

He's super mentally ill because they don't have any other thing, any other defense.

He confessed to all this shit, and they played the tape of him doing it.

Who's obviously gotten who the fuck normals does this shit?

That's the thing.

They said during the proceedings, this is from the newspaper, Siebert, who was not restrained by handcuffs, sat quietly, occasionally sipping coffee, chewing gum, or smoking unfiltered cigarettes.

It's the 80s.

You could do that at the defense table.

On Monday, he carried with him Larry McMurphy's book, Lonesome Dove.

He's reading Lonesome Dove, this guy.

He's drinking coffee.

Just drinking coffee, smoking butts, reading Lonesome Dove.

He said he wore his light brown hair in a bushy style and carried an Afro comb in his back pocket.

He's a white guy, by the way.

He's got a big, a big pompadour,

white man Afro.

He's got a big 70s bushy hair type of deal here that he carries that.

So in closing arguments, the defense attorney admitted that Siebert had killed Linda Garmin.

Jarmin can't deny it.

He said he's not innocent of the murder of Linda Jarmin.

He told them he did it.

Okay, so why are we here?

He said, but no robbery was involved in the slaying, which is what's necessary for capital murder.

Oh, so they're trying to save his life is all.

That's it.

They said, we're not denying force.

The ultimate force was used, but taking the car was not connected in any way with Linda Jarmin's death.

But it is.

You killed her, then took her car.

I needed a car.

That's why she died.

That was the problem right there.

And the district attorney said that he intended to steal the car and decided to kill her before he left Talladega.

He said Siebert went into that apartment, drank that Thunderbird,

which I think is hilarious.

He went in, drank that Thunderbird, and snuffed the life out of her.

She never knew it was coming.

He used the handicap of that woman to his advantage.

He is as bad as a murderer as he is as bad a murderer who ever came came into this court.

He's as bad a murderer as anyone who's ever come into this court.

Verdict comes in here.

So the jury deliberates for more than an hour before returning a guilty verdict of capital murder.

Guilty of everything.

Yeah.

Oh,

yeah.

So, yeah.

So the sentencing here,

they, it's all about his childhood.

Yeah.

I mean, they're saying he's had a terrible childhood, and look at what the fuck do you expect him to turn into.

His dad peed on him.

What do you want?

You got choices, man.

Yeah.

The prosecution said it's all calculated as fuck and he has zero remorse.

How do you put this guy anywhere except in the electric chair?

And so they say, you, sir, may fuck off death in the electric chair.

In the electric chair,

in the electric chair.

The old Alabami electric chair.

They have a lot of storms.

The power goes out once in a while, so you might have to stop halfway through it, pick it up again later.

It's not good.

It's a bad thing to do.

Bad thing for him to be in.

We may get you when they get the power poles back up.

Yeah.

So they move the trial to a nearby county for the Sherry Weathers trial.

Yeah.

And,

yeah.

Now, by the way, in between the trials, while this is going on, the families of the murdered people, the victims, murdered people, we'll just say victims.

Family of the victims start to

hang out with each other and form a real, like a little club here of horrible, you know, shit that's happened to them.

Terrible thing to have in common.

Yeah.

They said

after all this happened, we spoke weakly, Linda Jarman's mother said.

A lot of times when you're a survivor, you think that something is wrong with you, but then you see others going through the same behavior and you know that there isn't.

So he said, it's almost like we could sense when we were needed by each other and one of us would call the other.

Eventually, there came a time when we could laugh about mistakes caused by our grief, like forgetting things.

So they were their own little support group they had essentially here.

Of course.

They, like, they attended the trials of each other's kids

for support, for emotional support and all that kind of thing.

The Linda Jarman's sister said it meant a lot to have them at Linda's trial, so I've come to sympathize with them as well.

Well, yeah, why wouldn't you?

He said, we're like one big family.

We've all had the same hurt, so we can help each other.

Before that, I didn't have any sense of that.

If they didn't show up to her trial, I would be fucking furious with these people.

Yeah.

Fuck her and her dead kids.

Yeah.

Also attending the trial is Dawn Burchard from Chattanooga, who meets the two families.

She is the daughter of Beatrice McDougall.

the Atlantic City tour guide that was murdered.

Oh, right, right, right.

She joins the group too and starts hanging out with them.

Yeah, she goes to the trial as well.

She said she attended the trials to give the family support and to see justice done over her mother's death because they say he's already got the death penalty.

New Jersey ain't trying him.

All the other states said to Alabama, well, I mean, if you want to try him so bad, you spend the fucking money.

Go for it.

Literally, we don't.

Yeah.

If he gets out, let us know.

She also said she's a staunch advocate of victims' rights.

She said, we need to educate ourselves and the community as to what's left behind murder.

It's such a contradiction to natural death.

The homicide victim dies once, but the survivors die a little more each time they remember it.

Yes.

June 1987 is the Weathers family trial here.

He's got the same judge, too, which is a bad sign.

No.

Not good.

He got Lori Vallowed here with the same judge.

Uh-oh.

Hey, I know you.

Yeah, they said the DA said it's the same DA, too.

He said, I probably tried 30 death penalty cases or more, but this one is just the magnitude of it.

You got a woman that's deaf that he's intimate with, a four and a five year old who he wakes up from their sleep to strangle.

And they have the bodies.

They have physical evidence.

They have him using the children's identities while he's on the run.

And then they have the neighbor

saying what he said, which is, imagine how that rings out in court.

Imagine that.

Come with me so you can join your mother and brother.

If you're on a jury, you're just, it's going to suck the air out of that room.

Can I throw the switch?

Yeah.

I'm saying, so lucky snowbuddy strangled him from behind with a pink cloth or something.

People want to murder you after saying that.

So a lot of evidence.

The verdict comes in here.

Fucking guilty as well, obviously.

And the sentencing here, you, sir, may fuck off.

Death penalty again.

Again.

Liked it so much.

We did it twice.

So nice.

We did it twice.

So there we go.

Now they are going to take him to trial for Linda Fay Odom as well.

Real?

Fuck it.

Line him up.

Because you never know with appeal.

Prosecutor.

Don't you want to.

Yeah, I guess so.

But there's no statute of limitations.

If the appeal knocks it down, then take him to trial for this.

Yeah, then you can do it.

You have all it's all physical evidence and confession on video.

Hang on to all this.

Yeah.

Yeah, save your money, basically.

From what I understand, I don't think Alabama's the highest funded state going out there.

I don't hear like their schools and

everything teeming, overflowing with money.

Yeah.

So

I feel like they could use the money.

So

he ends up pleading guilty to this.

They offer him a deal.

They go, I'll tell you what, you plead guilty, you take life in prison with no parole.

Because it's a non-capital case.

He didn't steal anything from her.

He just dumped her off.

So they said, okay, they have him dead to rights on fingerprints and everything else.

So he said, okay,

life in prison for you.

So he also confessed to the Beatrice McDougal murder, but he's charged and never tried because he's on death row down there.

And New Jersey is going to save a few bucks in case.

Why not?

He faced charges in other states, but was never extradited or charged, mainly because he's on death row.

So you're on death row.

You're on death row.

In California, too.

You know, they did at least move the murdered victims off the Southside serial killer list and moved them over to his column here, Siebert's column.

So Alabama, five murders that we were positive of.

I'm sorry, six because Cheryl Evans, too.

So that'd be six, right?

Right, right.

Yeah.

Linda,

Linda, the two Lindas, Linda Fayodom, Linda Jarman, Sherry Weathers, both kids, and Cheryl Evans.

Cheryl Evans.

That's six.

That's at least six in Alabama.

At least three that we know of in California and Nevada between the boyfriend and the two women he killed.

And then we know of one in New Jersey.

And then he's admitted to others too.

And there's various assaults and kidnappings.

I mean, he's left a trail of fucking destruction behind him.

We haven't even got to his artwork yet.

Hold on a minute.

I can't wait.

That's the craziest part of this whole shit.

Fantastic.

So his death sentences trigger automatic appeals, of course, here.

They say his unfair trial, evidence related to his past criminal record, including a 79 manslaughter conviction, had been properly or improperly introduced during sentencing.

And they also challenged the decision to keep the first trial, the Linda Jarman trial, in Talladega County because of the publicity.

So

that's one of the automatic appeals that gets rejected.

1989 is his Sherry Weathers appeal.

Main point of contention is his Miranda warning that he got.

The ball's on this guy for that.

This is the funniest, most ridiculous appeal point of all time.

He said that the trial court erred in admitting his statements into evidence because the Miranda warnings given to him in Tennessee were improperly worded.

Oh, they weren't verbatim.

Check this out.

Well, he said that the detective who informed him of his Miranda rights said,

Anything you say can be used against you in court

when the card says anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.

Yeah.

I think we get it.

Yeah.

I think we understand.

And therefore, that his initial statement, anything that he said in Tennessee, and then that, of course, translates to anything he then said in Alabama, it should all be thrown out.

The whole domino, the whole row of dominoes that fell should be thrown out.

Oh.

Because he didn't say and will and in a court of law.

In Tennessee.

And Tennessee.

Yeah,

because that's when they initially arrested him.

But he confessed to confessing in Tennessee.

Yeah.

Because he thought that maybe, oh, just in Tennessee, that's going to be held against me.

That's not what he said, though.

Yeah, no, that's not what he said.

That would have been another one.

What about just in that state?

But yeah,

he just thought that's what it was.

So

they said, no.

They said at the time of his arrest, he was informed of his Miranda rights by the captain of the Talladega Police Department.

They said shortly thereafter, upon arrival in the county jail in Tennessee, he was informed of his Miranda rights again and made a decision.

He said it was at that time he was informed anything you say can be used against you in court.

In other words, he'd also already heard and will.

So

they said later, upon return to Talladega, he made another incriminating statement.

However, prior to this statement, he was informed anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.

Yeah.

Now, if you're from another country, I'm sure if you've seen an American movie of somebody getting arrested,

there's this little speech they give them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, you have a right to an attorney.

You have a right to Moraine Silent.

You have a right to this and that.

You have anything you say can it will be used against you in the law if you can't afford an attorney, it won't be provided for you, all that shit.

So

his contention was the wording differences between those two render his confession thrown out.

It's totally null and void now.

They argue that he also argues his statements should not have been allowed into evidence because he said they were involuntary, specifically saying they were conditioned on Captain Hearst's alleged promise that he would not be asked certain questions concerning details of the murders.

They said.

What?

The captain said, though, that

Danny told him that he would admit to the killings, but he would not go into details until he got back to Alabama.

And he said, sure, great.

Tell us who you killed, and we'll talk more details later.

He now claims that this agreement to this condition constituted a promise from the captain or an inducement for his statement, thereby rendering his statements involuntary because you can't give inducements for statements.

Although they do it all the time, they say, hey, you know, you say something, we can talk to the DA for you, maybe help you out there.

A whole confession is all inducement, so that's bullshit, too.

He said they attempted to transform Captain Hearst's actions into a promise of benefit or inducement, and it's readily apparent from the testimony that this was simply a condition placed by the defendant on the extent of his confession at the time.

Captain Hearst neither promised appellant anything nor induced him in any way.

He was merely acknowledging the terms which the appellant had unilaterally imposed.

Appellant had the right to remain silent.

He also had a right to limit any statement which he chose to make.

Could have shut the fuck up at any time.

Captain Hearst...

Yeah, Captain Hearst was only honoring this right.

Any benefit which may have occurred from this agreement was solicited freely and voluntarily by the appellant himself, thus failing to render his confession involuntary.

So the trial court says, keep on fucking off, mister.

Death penalty.

89 is the Linda Jarman appeal.

This is based a lot on juror selection.

Oh?

Little back and forth between the defense.

No, no, no, no.

Things they said beforehand.

A little back and forth here from Vaudir of the jury members.

The defense counsel said, you thought, you said earlier you think he's probably,

and juror Betty Chandler interrupted and said, well, I shouldn't have said that because I think I could be fair.

Because earlier she had said, I think he's probably guilty.

That's what she said.

She said, I think I could be fair.

I mean, you know, how you read and you think guilty.

I never questioned it, but I think I could be fair.

So other words, I mean, I read it in the paper, so I thought guilty, but if you show me evidence, I think I can, you know.

So they said, okay, you said a minute ago, I believe the question was, and I might be mistaken, but I believe it was, you think that, did you think the defendant was probably guilty or probably innocent?

Which one were you leaning toward there a little bit?

And she said, I was thinking guilty.

And he said, the defensive counsel said, probably guilty.

Okay, do you know of any reason why you couldn't give the defendant a fair trial?

And she said, no, sir.

They said, do you think you could put that out of your mind, even though today or at some time in the past you thought he was guilty?

She said, yes, sir.

so the next juror problem they said based on this is the defense counsel talking to the juror at the time

at the trial based on what you saw or read or what you discussed with somebody what do you think happened what do you think about it this juror said well i think it was a terrible thing

i think it was a terrible thing and the defense counsel said what is so bad

oh i don't know dead children

what do you think so the juror the juror said well with the children part of it because i've got two small children at home.

Uh-oh.

There you go.

So the defense counsel said, So you've heard the defendant was charged with killing some children.

And he said, Yes.

And they said, Based on that, would you have a hard time sitting as a juror?

And he said, Probably so.

And they said, and it would be hard to give the defendant a fair trial based on what you've heard and what you know.

And he said, probably so.

And the defense counsel said, I believe I'll challenge Mrs.

Smith, who is this person.

And

they let her be a juror

based on the prosecutor saying, I would like to ask a question.

He said, Mrs.

Smith, we are now trying any case, we're now trying any case today by the state of Alabama versus Daniel Siebert for the death of Glinda Ann Jarman.

She was a deaf lady that lived here in the city of Talladega.

Could you put any knowledge of what you had seen, heard, read about, or anything else out of your mind and render a verdict in this case and the case alone based on the evidence that comes to you from the witness stand and exhibits you are not that are allowed into evidence.

Can you do that?

And she said, yes, sir.

So she said, I can't be fair to him.

But the prosecutor reworded it, and then she said, yeah, I guess so.

And this happens all the time.

Yeah, I can be here.

I can be fair that way.

Yeah.

Nowadays, the judges would rather just, if a juror is acting any, they don't want them there.

Fuck off then.

They don't need that shit because that's just appeal points you're going to end up with.

So now they they want all the jurors to be none of that shit.

So they said, you know, you can put anything out of your mind.

Yes, sir.

Thank you very much.

They said, so the fact that the defense counsel said, so the fact that you have heard of him being charged with committing other crimes, that wouldn't affect the way you rule.

And she said, I don't think so.

So,

yeah.

Also, the fact that During the,

I guess the prosecutor during the trial asked the police officer a question who testified during the manslaughter conviction.

This is a Las Vegas cop.

They brought him in to testify in Alabama.

And they said, how did he die?

And the cop said, multiple stab wounds.

They said, how many multiple stab wounds?

And he said, total wounds.

We're not sure.

We stopped at 29.

They gave up after 29.

It might be 100.

They just gave up.

They're like, that's 29.

So then the defense counsel asked, weren't a number of those wounds on the victim's legs?

And he said they were throughout his body.

And they said, and there was testimony at the trial that Mr.

Siebert was lying on the ground and the victim was standing when some of these wounds were inflicted.

Is that correct?

And they said, yes.

And they said, when there's any testimonies about advances being made toward the defendant, wasn't there?

And

so that's how that went.

They said, how is the, the question was, how was the testimony and evidence as to how the defendant was dressed at the time?

Wasn't he naked at that time?

He put the stab wounds in him.

Wasn't that evidence?

And the detective said, I'm not positive.

But it sure puts a picture in the jury's mind.

Sure does, yeah.

They said, I believe he fled the scene and

there was some time getting him into custody, wasn't he?

And he said, yes, sir.

So there you go.

This denied also.

Denied.

Now, 1990, it's both affirmed by the Alabama.

Both convictions of the death penalties are confirmed by the Alabama Supreme Court.

1999,

post-conviction relief was denied, and federal habeas petitions were dismissed in 2001.

His appeal points after this are ineffective counsel, juror misconduct, prosecutorial misconduct, mental illness.

He also sues over prison conditions, food quality, medical care, and the method he'll ultimately be executed with, the way he's talking about.

Everything's dismissed.

Okay.

So in prison, he's sitting on death row, inmate number 00Z475 at the Holman Correctional Facility.

In prison, he is described as calm and almost meek at times.

Nothing like he was before.

Reporters who interview him noted his ability to appear charming and polite, even as he discussed the heinous crimes which he was convicted

So he's a mess.

He continues to draw constantly, but now he used to draw all sorts of things: landscape things, different things.

Yeah, pictures.

Now

he draws pretty much two dogs, one dog going one way, one dog going the other way.

This guy's saying, what do you want from me?

So

now all he draws is women in like bondage outfits.

Uh-oh.

But like half of them are like real dominant women.

Oh.

Violent sexual scenarios, including group sex and all this weird shit.

And depictions of control and domination that we'll talk about.

He sells this shit online

later.

He develops a bunch of pen pals.

He has so many women absolutely devoted to him, sending him money for commissary, maintaining websites about his case and his art and how can this wonderfully talented artist possibly be a terrorist?

Yeah.

The belly of the beast thing, like that guy, the guy who wrote that book and got out of jail and then killed a waiter almost immediately for fucking not putting his silverware straight or some shit.

So he's doing well in there with all that.

So from prison, he can manipulate people with his artwork.

They go, oh, he's got to be so,

he's so gifted.

So

he gives his artwork to other people who sell it through websites in the early 2000s.

There's a small group of pen pals that do this, all women, obviously.

And because that's who he finds easiest to snow, so for him.

So they are, these people don't give a shit about his crimes, nothing.

They just see this, they see his art.

Somebody put this in.

It's a great quote.

They see his art as a window into a misunderstood soul.

Oh, boy.

They're like, I can see through the color use of this and that and sketches

what's going on in there.

That's a sketch of the dominatrix.

Yeah.

But psychologists all said it was just more manipulation.

That's all it is.

It's just how he can manipulate.

Otherwise, he looks like a fucking monster.

They said his charm allows him to blend into communities, which is how he did this all in the first place.

In his art now, it presents him as a tortured artist rather than this murderer.

They said this one psychologist said the duality

mirrors other charismatic serial killers, especially like a Ted Bundy who used his skills in the same way to endear himself to people and then did what he wanted to do completely remorselessly, same way.

So

problem is his artwork is very controversial among the victims' advocate groups.

It should be.

They're like, you know, how does he get to profit and get attention from his fucking drawings, which is fair.

Yeah.

So

it's crazy.

Even

Esther Brown from Project

from Project Hope to abolish the death penalty.

So someone who's trying to get him off death row said that she expressed disgust that Siebert's art gave him a platform.

Like, I don't want to kill him, but I'd also don't want him to be out there.

I just don't want people to be murdered with my tax dollars.

That's all, you know,

which is understandable.

So

he becomes the subject of fascination.

He produces tons of drawings and portraits.

I mean, a lot.

He's really prolific.

Some of his artworks, which are really weird, one has like a woman holding a severed head.

Real weird.

One of his own drawings depicting his own decapitated head

was given to a female police detective who played a role in gathering evidence against him.

Here you go, sweetheart.

There you go.

That's a little something for you to take home.

You know what I mean?

That's for the kids.

Put it on the fridge, will you?

It's for the kids.

So

here's what you did to me.

Wow.

She ended up displaying it on her office wall.

She put it up and was like, Really?

Serial.

Well, yeah, and the detectives,

that's a fucking conversation piece in a police station.

Yeah, that's another sick fuck that killed all those people.

He drew that for me.

So, yeah, 2007, the death penalty is moving right along, and he's supposed to be executed in 2007.

Problem is, in May of 2007, he develops severe jaundice, and he's

diagnosed with hepatitis C.

Uh-oh.

July 12th, 2007, a biopsy reveals he has terminal inoperable pancreatic cancer.

Oh, shit.

He's got Swayze disease.

Yeah.

That's good.

That's coming for him.

That's fast.

That's good.

That is fast as fucking.

That's fast if you're rich and not in prison.

So imagine how fast it is if you're in fucking prison.

They don't let you.

Cardio.

Yeah.

Yeah, with abs and shit.

So July 19th, he files an amended lawsuit.

His argument is the three-drug lethal injection protocol, because that's what they're doing again in Alabama down there, combined with his medical conditions would constitute cruel and unusual punishment.

What is it?

There's the same time that

this drug mixture is also being challenged in other states as well.

So that's on there.

His lawyers argue execution would be cruel and unusual punishment because the cancer drugs would interact with the lethal injection drugs causing excessive pain.

A board-certified oncologist, Dr.

Jimmy H.

Harvey, an I.E.

Jimmy,

said he has a life expectancy of less than 90 days.

He has severe muscle wasting.

He needs a feeding tube.

He has chronic nausea.

He has a tumor blocking his upper gastrointestinal tract.

tract and has a great likelihood of regurgitation during execution

which uh and a very compromised venous access so his veins aren't good either.

So, like, I don't know what you want to do with this guy, but unless you put a pillow over his face, it's not going to work.

It's almost over anyway, it sounds like.

Then, while all this is going on, he's investigated regarding a pornography case involving one of his correspondents.

Oh,

he isn't charged, but his pen pal is convicted of multiple sex crimes related to the materials they exchanged.

Wow.

Who do you think that was about?

Kids, probably, I would assume.

Yeah.

Yep.

Piece of shit.

So he files this lawsuit lawsuit against Alabama's lethal injection protocol, sodium

thiopental for anesthesia, pancuronium bromide as a paralytic, and potassium chloride to stop the heart.

So he argues that all those conditions mean you'll have failed anesthesia, basically.

So October 3rd, 2007,

the district court allows a claim to litigate, litigate but denies a preliminary injunction, but they're going to look at it.

Then

his execution is stayed.

There's an emergency motion for a preliminary injunction, and that's denied, but then it ends up getting

stayed by the 11th circuit intervention.

A three-point judge panel says that

they have to wait a minute to execute him.

Or then they say you don't have to wait.

Then the next day on October 25th, he's supposed to be executed, but

files another one,

and they end up maintaining the stay, so they can't execute him right away.

The governor said his crimes were monstrous, brutal, and ghastly when asked if he would pardon him.

So

November 5th, it was vacated and remanded

to the panel, which again reversed the denial, remanding for full consideration as the claim.

So it's a huge fucking mess.

Anyway, execution day comes around and it's stayed.

The execution stayed again.

That Esther Brown, who hates him from the project to hope to abolish the death penalty, said, I find it unbelievable that Alabama justice demands we strap a dying man to the gurney.

Literally, wait an hour.

He'll probably die.

Yeah.

So there's all sorts of shit getting filed.

Alabama files emergency petitions to overturn the stay.

It's a fucking mess.

The state said that he's using his illness to delay justice.

Families deserve closure.

Modifications to the protocol addressed any concerns.

His crimes warrant no mercy, regardless of his health.

The governor said, I would, in essence, be commuting his sentence to life in prison, and that's not a sentence he was given by a jury.

His crimes were monstrous, brutal, and ghastly.

So then the stay is lifted.

Okay.

So he's going to be allowed to do it.

They say that

they have beyond a reasonable degree of medical certainty that more than 99.999999%

of the population would be unconscious.

So don't worry about it.

Okay.

April 22nd, 2008, as they're preparing the death chamber for him at 1.35 p.m., I think he's getting executed in like three days.

He fucking dies.

Damn it.

Who cares?

He's dead.

Either way, what's the difference?

This is way worse.

This is so much worse.

Okay, if you hated hated somebody, if you are sick, hated them, sick, and you said, How would you like them to die?

Would you like them to feel great and then be lethal injected?

Or would you like them to get pancreatic cancer, rot from the inside, and spend the last month of your life wasting away attached to a feeding tube?

If you've never seen someone die of cancer,

it is the worst thing that is possible.

I guarantee that

state-sponsored death is so much more peaceful.

It probably is.

This is horrible.

So I don't understand.

Some of the families are mad.

I don't get it.

And the detective justice?

The detective said,

I think we felt cheated.

By what?

He's dead.

You watched him wither away and die.

That's got to feel great.

I think, you know, that's, hey, good.

Fuck this.

Look at him.

He looks terrible.

Awesome.

Fuck him.

So

the reactions overall, the whole thing, the detective Eugene Jacks, who was there from the discovery of everybody, said, I think about those two little boys and I always will.

And the other detective said, when you see something like that, you can't help but think about your own child.

They still attend memorial services and they check on the family members.

They said they're still keeping in touch with people.

They feel bad.

Now, his artwork is for sale.

Let's see.

Now

it's all over the fucking internet.

Okay, well, here's one that's particularly odd.

Oh, it's colorful.

All right.

Oh, she's.

She got a titty lady back here.

That is incredibly well done.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Wow.

The demon up front is even scary.

He'd be great at skateboard graphics.

Yeah, Serial Killers Need Love 2.

It's him.

It says he's drinking a can of killer beer.

And he looks like a little...

like almost like a gremlin he's got going on basically.

The shirt is Serial Killers Need Love 2.

And behind him, that's kind of like over a hill and behind him is this giant naked woman with huge boobs and ass holding a Grim Reaper's scythe.

Her name is

real hard.

Very interesting, Titty.

It's big.

Everything's big on it.

Look at the way she's looking.

Yeah, she's horny.

Like

horny.

She's got a scythe in her hand.

She's going to go chop this guy's head off.

You think that's what she's doing?

She thinks she's hunting him?

Yeah.

Is his zipper down?

What is that?

No, it's just the wager, the thing.

It's just the ground.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I think she's behind him looking to kill him.

I think she popped up from behind a hill behind him, right?

And he's sitting there drinking a beer, staring off, because there's no acknowledgement

of the killer guy seeing her.

It's only her seeing him.

So I think that's what it means.

I'm not an artist.

Oh, and he's smoking a joint or something here, too.

A cigarette.

Got a little pre-roll.

Okay.

Here is one.

Supernaut?

Oh, okay.

All right.

This is.

Sorry, I just made some interference there.

Yeah.

This is a giant, like a,

like a, like a mythology man with a shield, like a he-man, basically,

with woman on her knees by his side, wearing only, everybody's only wearing like a little loincloth type thing, but she's pointing at something that he's looking at.

Yeah.

So, like, she's going to.

Watch over there.

Save me.

Yeah.

Go get that one.

This is $350, by the way.

Wow.

Because it's signed by him.

Here's one that you don't need a lot of interpretation for.

What the fuck.

It's a chick from behind spreading her asshole.

So you can see it.

With her whole palm.

With her whole palm, and she's making a face like, yeah, give it to me.

So

they're all like pencil sketches, basically.

Here is

a woman licking another woman's nipple.

Yeah.

That's too, but the nipple has like tape on it, but her tongue is under the tape.

That's got to mean something.

That's only $60.

Okay.

Here, this looks like a kid's drawing.

I think that was just censored for the internet, James.

No, all the other ones have nipples and tits and just pussies and shit.

Way do you see them?

I think it's...

Or it might be, who knows if they got them from somewhere else.

But this is like a woman riding a giant strong horse.

She has like...

like a Xena warrior princess outfit on, and she's holding victoriously a bow up in the air.

Like she just shot, killed somebody.

Did you watch heavy metal?

That reminds me of heavy metal.

Yeah, that's what it looks like.

You're absolutely right.

That's 120 bucks.

And there's this.

This is fucking weird.

Boy.

This is one of the weirdest things I've ever seen.

Really, really naughty tree, like

a twisted-up tree.

Interesting.

It's a woman in a bikini and she's turned back toward you to look.

She's holding like a, I guess, her clothes, a robe or something.

There's a twisted tree next to her, and there is a little, look at the face.

A lynx that has a human face.

A lynx with his face, I think is what it is.

It's a lynx.

It's almost like Wizard of Oz kind of looking.

Where the wild things are.

Yeah, there you go, with where the wild things are.

$350 for that.

Wow.

Here is just a horse.

Yep.

Running through the water.

Running through a canyon with like hills in the background, but there's little lumpy rocks, and I think maybe there's bodies in there.

There's some titty or something in there.

$325 for that.

These are

16 by 20 inch, too.

They're big.

Bigger.

Yeah, that's a $325.

These are all signed by him.

So $325.

That's crazy, Steve.

You want that?

Here's another big giant, like Clydesdale-looking horse with a very bedazzled saddle and everything.

Bridal and everything.

And it looks like Foxy Brown in a bikini next to him.

It looks like

him as a woman.

I mean, kind of, but it looks like Foxy Brown, like that kind of pose, like a, like on the cover of

a movie poster.

But like 70s style, like total Foxy, because a big fro.

$325 for that.

Steve.

This, a very strange picture.

It's a woman who looks real muscular and like you could almost see inside of her.

See, it's like she's like an x-ray.

You can like see her like she's wearing like a muscle suit.

Sure.

Real weird.

And half her face is totally in shadows.

She looks like a demon or something.

Here is a woman with big wings like butterfly wings.

Yeah.

A nipple hanging out.

There's a nipple and there's tops of nipples there.

She looks like almost like a goddess drawing almost, something like that.

Winged female.

That's $225.

Daniel Siebert's mustard and mayo packets for $20.

What?

These are his mustard and mayo packets from April of 2006.

What the hell is that?

Someone is selling that for $20, his mustard and mayonnaise packet.

Here is him doing whatever the fuck this is.

That's that same one with the

one from before.

Yeah.

Here is

another one.

It's like

kind of a goddessy-looking picture.

A woman in her underwear, no top, but like a cape that goes across her tits, so they're not there.

It's a watercolor.

That one.

That is, what is that?

$350?

Here's another version of the woman and the lynx.

It's very similar, except that looks like a black woman, I believe.

That's $140.

You can get a handwritten letter from him.

Wow, he had great penmanship.

He's an artist.

Yeah.

And he writes about his son saying he will be arrested and taken to the county jail on a rape abduction charge with numerous others charges attached.

That's exactly, that's not exactly what I wanted to hear out of none of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So it's all about his son being in jail and basically Damien and basically asking if you can kind of keep an eye on my son, basically.

If you can talk to him, if you can do whatever, because I can't do shit for him from here.

The whole letter is very interesting.

I just don't have time to read it.

Then we get into these.

Boy.

He's a little bit.

He's a pornographic.

Allowed to draw anything you want.

Good lord.

There is.

He loves blowjobs.

Yeah, there is one where the guy is bending over and he's got his dick sticking out backwards and a woman sucking it.

That's impossible.

Then sucking it from the front.

Then there's a money shot in the mouth over here.

And he does that a few times.

Yeah, he loves.

Yeah.

There's one.

Look at this.

The dick goes through into her mouth, through her cheek, and comes on somebody else's face.

Yeah.

And there's still jizz dripping down her chin.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And a puddle under this one, too.

Then there's this.

This is like a

kind of a woman in like...

Tracy?

She's got like the high, you know, stockings and like, you know, like a sexy outfit, but also like a floppy gardening hat.

And she's watering her flowers, which is strange.

Then you have like demon woman here.

Impressive.

He's getting better.

But look, she's over.

Is that a dead woman?

I think it's a dead woman.

It's a dead naked woman bent over.

Face down, ass up.

Face down, ass up, eyes closed.

Knees and everything.

Then you got this.

A guy licking some chick's shoe while he plows her.

I don't like these kinky ones.

No, a threesome thing or some guy sucking a dick while he's fingering somebody else here.

And there's always things dripping out of the woman, by the way.

Always and all of these.

They all squirt.

Dripping.

Here's another one of just a doggy style tableau, but that's actually a threesome because there's a woman under there licking.

See?

So there's that.

Everybody fucking.

Another one of like dirty bonded shit.

A woman like looking at another woman who's on a hill looking like a warrior.

More fucking scenes.

This is two people going down on one chick and like there's a reverse cowgirl we got going on there.

Man, he missed out on porn.

He would be like, oh, this is everything now.

It's the same scene every time.

On the bottom, it says images from Kevin Taylor's girl.

Don't know what that means.

Here's another one of just all blowjobs.

It says ump shit up on this one for some reason as they're having a threesome of the girl is riding a guy while another girl is spreading her asshole to lick it.

And that's a jizz-covered woman there.

Now, this one down here has two jizzing cocks on her.

Yeah, that was a funny

titty, too.

And it's just pencil drawing.

So

how he gets so much detail in

everything.

He's got hair.

He's got...

That's really good drawing.

It's just.

Got an orgy over here going on.

This looks like...

This is a wild picture.

This looks like Brian Adams and Britney Spears together.

Like at the height of both of their, like him in the mid-80s and her in the late 90s.

That's what this looks like.

He looks like Keith.

Kind of, yeah.

Yeah, with a guitar right there.

Yeah, he drew Keith.

Yeah.

But there's a guitar, which makes me think of Brian Adams because it looks like him more.

If he had anything else, else, I would call him Keith.

If he had like woodworking tools, he'd be like, it's Keith.

So that was then.

Here's another orgy scene.

So you get the picture.

Yeah,

it's a lot of dick and pussy.

Warriors and orgies, and here's another two women.

A lot of like domination, but the cheapest one you could find are $75, and they're 8x11 unframed graphite on frames.

Why is that?

Don't know.

There's ones that are $300, $150.

Don't know what the fuck's going on for you.

That's price very high.

He's dead, so fuck him.

There you go.

That's Talladega, Alabama.

Holy shit.

Very quick.

I'll get through the end here.

Definitely head to shutupandgivememurder.com.

Get your tickets for Seattle in October.

There's some available for that.

Everything else is just about sold out for those.

Get your merchandise there as well.

Follow us on social media at Small Town Murder on Instagram at

Yes, no, it's Small Town Murder on Instagram at Small Town Pod on Facebook.

That's where we are.

So there's that.

We have patreon.com slash crimeinsports is where you get all of your bonus materials.

Come get them, everybody.

Everything.

I'm telling you, anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get everything.

Our whole back catalog, new ones every other week, and you get everything ad-free.

It's a shitload.

This week, what you're going to get for crime and sports, which you have access to, athletes fucking up and going broke, even though they had tens of millions of dollars.

Then part two for small-town murder of Ted Bundy, quote-unquote, helping find the Green River killer.

Right.

Because that's some crazy shit.

That's patreon.com slash crime and sports.

Like I said, ad-free for all three shows, and you get a shout-out.

When does that shout-out come?

Right fucking out.

Jimmy, hit me with the names of the best goddamn people in the world who would never rape, kill us, and then draw pictures of it.

Jimmy, hit me with them right now.

This week's executive producers are Gary Howard, Dorothy Katz, Aaron Webb.

We're two alike, my man.

And I'm so sorry.

Hope you're hanging in there.

You're the best, and I love you.

And Jamie Anthony, thank you all so much for being a part of this.

It means the most to us.

Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Jessica McAwich.

That's a sandwich

of McAwitch.

Yeah, that's gross.

Happy hour.

McDonald's, the McAwitch.

It's a dead clown on a pun.

Happy hour in Owensville, Missouri this week.

Good for you.

Oh, boy.

Janice Hill, Kathy Fair,

Pelicioni, Pelicioni,

Jillian Copenhavers, Dolan Harrington, Amole Cowercour, Annie Johnson,

Camaria, Camaria Collins, Megan Clark, Nick Mick, Brandy Ph.D., Jeremy Sanderson, Ty with no last name, MX Stacey, I imagine that's Motocross, Stacey, maybe not.

No name.

Somebody with no name.

Lydia with no last name.

Breonna McManus, Chris Templeton, Marco with no last name.

Sandra Sheldon, Stacey Silias, Solias,

Sillis, Silas, Helen, Silisiban, Scylla Saiban.

Thank you for making me trip.

Helena Sve Dang.

Sve Dang.

Rachel Spiller.

Amy Nichols.

Zante with no last name.

Haley Schrenk.

Carl Zubofsky.

David

Bakabobo.

Bacabobobobobobobobobobobobo.

Tammy Tami.

Tammy.

What is this?

Tarney?

Is that Tammy?

Tammy Sander?

Halsey with no last name.

Cece with no last name.

Marguerite Puintha McGowan.

Jenny Bean.

Melbo99, Patty Taylor, Marie Yarborough,

Carrie Lee DeHart, PZ,

what is this?

Jennifer.

Why did I do two N's?

One N, two F.

Nice.

Jennifer Johnston.

Bradley

Thorne.

Oh, Thompson.

There it is.

Lynette Placido, LaKendra Deveraude, Andrew Thomas.

I hope not.

Kendra Levy, Desmond with no last name.

Karen Snook, Ryan Noonan, Blaine Cluton, Trevor Robinson, Nick Jutz, Mick and Kathy, Eric with no last name.

Nicole Jennings, G.

Wayne, Eric Macbeth, Kara with no last name.

Brad Bigrig, Tim C.

DeHaven, Vicki G, Deborah Anderson, Michaela Sutherland, Jennifer Bain 1, Quinns with no last name, Skylar Littlefield, Dre Thomas, Dre uh Thomas.

Nope, that's Torres.

God fucking damn.

God damn it.

Hainesy, I think.

Hey, isn't he?

Hayes knee.

Hayes Ney.

Hayes, New York, maybe, or is it Hayesney?

All right, Laura with no last name.

EMS, Nick at night, the state farm guy.

I don't know which one.

Joel Perry, Travis with no last name.

Don White, Babulus.

Oh, Babulis.

35.

Chris Hicks, Francesca with no last name.

Ian Crystal.

Crystal, perhaps.

Dustin Dentier.

Kara Muir.

Robert McFray.

Jennifer Jones.

Probably not

Jenny.

Fatimis.

07.

Crystal Cannon.

Karen Palmerg.

Michael Lanigan.

David Nichols.

Nichols.

A with no last name.

A, the letter A.

This show brought to you by letter A.

Marty with no last name.

Elizabeth Massad.

Jeremy Raddick.

Danielle Gallo.

Galcallo with a C.

No, with the G.

Jamie

Roardvet.

Wow.

Jaime, perhaps.

Mira Boulding.

Karen Wells.

Skylar Quasso.

DK, Metcalf,

Christy Hunter, Nanani, Nanami, Alan McRae, Sonny Provenzano, Beth Freeman.

I can do those quick now.

Don White, Ashley Morse, got that Morse code money.

Mackenzie Henson, Thomas,

Hajanta, Hajatna, Brianne with no last name.

Spencer Altoff, Helen Downey.

Yep.

Courtney Santos, Rhonda Clausen, Misty Spells, Dash with no last name.

David Sutton, Mel B, Yabos, Yabos McGee, I bet you.

Jonathan West,

what is this?

What you eating?

What you been eating?

All right.

Heidi Orme, Amy McGuire, Beth Miller, Savannah Dolan, Kristen Seeley, Alexandria G, Anne-Marie Polinski, Terry

McElrath, Katie Lockhart, Mannell, Manol, perhaps, James Etier,

Mike Noonan, Jay

Petro.

Ah, I can't do them as well as I thought.

Leanne, no, that's Lena.

No, that's Leah.

Leah Snyder.

Russell Stewart.

Gianne, Marie, Joe, and Mary.

Maybe it's Genie.

All right.

JC German.

Giann S.

I.

A.

N.

No.

G, J, E-A-N-N-E.

Gene.

Could be otherwise, right?

It's two Ns.

Yeah, I don't know.

It might be Giann.

I don't know.

Possible.

Oh, boy, oh, boy.

Cheyenne Bruns, S and A, the letters, S A.

Julie.

Sexaholics Anonymous.

Yeah.

Or just a Mexican guy, my SA.

Waraxa, Hayden Burns, Leslie with no last name.

Jeremiah Sniffing, gross.

Nicole with no last name.

Edgar, Edgar Bradley, Susie

Fade, Julie Coates Jackson, Latasha Campbell, Laura with no last name.

Alex C.

Tiff with no last name.

Marianne Monina.

Timothy

Rees Brown.

James Larkin.

Christine France, outsider with no last name, Jessica Knight, David Borges, Borgs, Hannah with no last name, Andre Black, Jennifer Buran, Todd Prince, got that tennis fucking brand money, Jerianna Riordan, Barbara Cope, yellow fuzzy ball money,

Jeremy Renner's last sip of the soda in the town.

That is hilarious because I thought

I've never mentioned it nor discussed it with anybody, but that's the most disgusting sip of soda in any movie ever.

He's getting shot at by cops.

He grabs a soda out of the trash can, takes the biggest pull you've ever seen from a soda that's not yours,

the straw and everything, and then throws it down and gets up and continues a battle with the police.

He doesn't care that whatever that's going to give him because he's about to die and he knows it, I think.

Well, yeah, I don't think

that disease is really

at that point.

He just wants a sip of Coke.

Yeah.

It's so gross.

And he certainly got it.

He was teaming with it when he got blasted blasted in the face.

Nick Blake, Bodhi Marshall, Summer Monstera, Michelle Cox, Cody Lambert, Connor Crawford, and every person who patrons this show.

You're the best.

And thank you.

Thank you so much, everybody, for all that you do for us.

Everything, every day.

We really, really appreciate you.

And I hope this wasn't too disturbing.

Good.

It's disturbing.

Yeah.

It'll be different next week.

Don't worry.

So it's all good.

Keep coming back and seeing us.

You want to follow us on social media.

Shut up and givememurder.com has everything you need.

That said, everybody, until next week,

it's been our pleasure.

Bye.