Forest Serial Killer - Oak Grove, Oregon

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This week, in Oak Grove, Oregon, when bystanders intervene to try to stop the murder of a woman in a Denny's parking lot, nobody has any idea that this will lead to a serial killer and a secret graveyard deep in the forest.

Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

Yay!

Oh, yay, indeed, Jimmy.

Yay, indeed.

My name is James Petrigallo.

I'm here with my co-host.

I'm Jimmy Wissman.

Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another absolutely insane edition of Small Town Murder.

This is crazy stuff that we have here.

This is one of those where when we're all done, we go, and how many more are out there?

It's a lot, and it's crazy.

And yeah, this guy was was so off the chain that people thought it was the Green River killer doing this for a long time.

Wild stuff.

We'll get to all that and more.

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It's a really, really fun story and a really, really fun thing that happened.

So check that out and hang out with us.

That said, disclaimer time, this is a comedy show.

We're comedians.

We're going to make jokes.

It happens.

People are certainly going to die because it's a show called Small Town Murder.

Here's the thing, though.

What you do is we never make fun of the victims or the victims' families.

Why is that, James?

Because we're assholes.

Yeah, but.

But we're not scumbags.

That's how that works there.

So, I mean, there's plenty to make fun of here.

We make fun of a small town because we're all from some small town that's easily made fun of.

Who cares?

That's just good fun.

And we like to make fun of murderers because we don't really have much other recourse.

It's not like we can go put them in jail or something.

So we have to make fun of them.

And that's what we do here.

So if that sounds good to you, you're going to hear a wild story, really crazy stuff.

If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, we might not be for you.

That's possible.

But I think maybe you should give us a chance.

You don't know.

Either way, no complaining later.

That said, I think it's time, everybody, to sit back.

What do you say?

Let's all clear the lungs here.

Let's all shout.

Shut up and give me murder.

Let's do this, everybody.

Okay.

All right.

Let's go on a trip, shall we?

We are going to Oregon this week,

which we will be going there next month to go to Portland to do a show.

So we can't wait for that.

And Seattle's the next night.

We're going to Oak Grove, Oregon, which is in northwestern Oregon.

It's a Portland suburb

here.

It's about 20 minutes to Portland.

So right outside Portland, about four hours and 15 minutes to our last Oregon episode.

That was in Weimer, Oregon.

That was the Pig Farm murders.

Remember that?

Right.

With the heiji beejees?

That guy gave me the heejee beegees.

I'll get the heeje beegees all the time.

That was a crazy episode.

This is in Clackamas County, Area Code 503 and 971.

The little bit of history here.

It was named at the suggestion of a guy named Edward Cornell, who was a guy.

He was a member of the surveying party that was platting the town site.

Okay.

They were

sitting in an oak grove for lunch, and he said a fine grove of oak trees in the northwest, part of the tract.

And he said, we should name this place Oak Grove.

There it is.

Because that's what it was.

So it was platted in 1890.

And that's what ended up happening here.

They showed, apparently they put a trolley in in 1893 and all this.

The weird thing is the railroad station was originally named Center.

And there was another station

in St.

Teresa that was named Oak Grove.

So they literally had to like try to, how do we switch this?

You get this and we get that.

And so the post office department changed the name of the post office to Oak Grove and the center railroad station was changed to match.

And then the Teresa one had to change theirs because it was already taken.

Ridiculous.

They fight over names and who's going to be the county seat.

Crazy stuff.

Reviews of this town.

Let's find out what other people think about here because we've never been here before.

I don't know anything about it.

Here we go with four stars.

I love my neighborhood.

Good.

That's nice.

I moved here when I was in seventh grade and I've seen it grow so much just in the past five years.

The sense of community in my neighborhood is so incredibly strong and comforting.

The relationships I've nurtured with my neighbors are relationships I'll cherish years after I move.

Okay.

Why are you planning on moving if it's so great?

The neighborhood.

Yeah.

Just the neighborhood.

Why don't you just stay there if you want to?

Yeah, sounds great.

Yeah.

Why are you going to move?

I don't understand that.

Here's three stars.

Very short and sweet.

Inexpensive cost of living and close to the river.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's not really that inexpensive,

as we'll talk about there.

And then three stars, here we go.

A lot of the people, this, I don't know what this person's talking about.

A lot of the people who live in the area are from a very rough or live in a rough house.

Rough house?

What is that?

The rough house.

Barely constructed, just a

lean to.

What are we talking?

Rough house.

I'm just framed.

That's it.

I don't know.

Many come from a background of violence, but have chosen to become the, and then in quotes, better person.

Yeah.

Okay.

The neighborhood also has a lot of traffic problems at the intersection.

I have no idea what you're talking about, except for that.

Is this town just a neighborhood?

I think it's a neighborhood in an intersection, apparently, with rough houses, from what I hear.

That said, population of this town, 17,382.

That's very big for us.

Not big, not small.

It's the biggest neighborhood I've ever heard of.

Yeah, no, it's a town, decent size.

I mean, that's a good-sized town.

More men than women in this town, which is not normal

in the population here.

It's about 50.8% men.

It is median age here is a few years above the national average.

It's about 42.5%.

Family here, it is just below the average.

It's usually 50-50

for married, and here it's 46.6%.

You know, a lot of average stuff.

It's kind of an average suburb.

Race of this town, 86.4% white, 1.8% black, 1.3% Asian, 7.7% Hispanic.

Religion in this town, normally 50-50.

In the rest of the country, here it is 29.6%.

So much less here.

And it's spread around pretty good.

The highest concentration of a faith is the other Christian.

So I don't know what that is.

I'm not sure exactly.

Not sure what that means exactly or what that encompasses, but other Christian, other than the ones they listed, like Pentecostal and Methodist and Presbyterian and all that.

The unemployment rate here is just about average.

Median household income here is just about average, too.

It is $68,344 a year, which is $1,000 less than the national average.

Problem is, the cost of living here is pretty damn high.

100 is regular average in the country.

Here it is a 134 out of 100.

Oh, my.

Pretty expensive.

And the housing is the most expensive thing.

Median home cost here, wow, 439,800 bucks.

Pricing.

Someone said, oh, yeah, it's cheap to live here.

It is not cheap to live here.

In comparison to what?

That's what I mean.

Maybe Portland itself, like

Portland proper.

Because I know Portland's really expensive.

It is, yeah.

So I guess it's cheap compared to living in the city, maybe.

I'm not sure.

But if you want to figure it out, we have for you the Oak Grove, Oregon Real Estate Report.

The average two-bedroom rental here goes for $1,740.

So that is pricey.

Incredibly steep.

And about

$500 high, exactly.

Here's a house that is, it's a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,312 square feet, just a nice little kind of raised ranch, two-car garage attached, that sort of thing.

Not bad.

It's on a small lot, not even, you know, a quarter of an acre or anything like that.

Pretty big driveway.

Inside,

I don't like the carpeting, but they have a nice fireplace in the living room.

Okay.

$390,000 for that, though.

Wow.

I mean, I'll show you a picture.

It's not, I mean, it's, you know, it's fine.

400 grand.

It's, you know, it's built in 1973 and it looks like it.

And it's not that big and it's 400 grand.

So that seems like a little steep.

And here is one: a three-bedroom, one-bath, again, same thing, $1,320 square feet.

It's nice, hardwood floors.

The lot's a little bit bigger, but again, not even a quarter acre.

It's fine, but it's not amazing.

$489,000 for this.

My word.

For a very average 1,300 square foot house with no property.

Yeah.

That is steep.

That seems really, really steep.

And then finally here, move on in, everybody.

A four-bedroom, four-bath, 5,477-square-foot house.

Yeah.

And this is one of these

very modern here.

I'll show you super modern with all, you know.

Oh,

it looks like a new McDonald's is what it looks like.

You know, it's like all gray and industrial.

That's kind of what the house is.

Is that just a two-car?

That looks like a two-car that they have there.

Yeah, nothing bigger than that.

But this house is $2,999,990.

So that's steep.

Pricey.

This is expensive, this joint.

It really is here.

So that said,

things to do in this town.

Okay, let's find out.

The Oak Grove Festival.

Now,

I tried, I looked, and I fought long and hard to find things about the Oak Grove Festival.

They talk about it constantly,

but they won't tell you anything about it, essentially.

I don't understand it.

It just says it's back and better than ever.

And it says 11 a.m.

to 4 p.m., a lively day packed with food, music, fun, and local flavor.

That's all I can find on this damn thing.

And everywhere it's listed, that's the description they have.

They just sent the press release out and they did it.

Now, something that's a little more covered is the Oak Grove Folk Music Festival.

Oh.

Here we go.

All sorts of folk people, I suppose.

I don't know who any of these people are.

Mojo Parker.

Never heard of him.

Don't know Mojo.

I don't know Mojo.

I got no Mojo.

Patty Larkin, Barry's sister.

She's got something going on.

I don't know.

There's also a Saturday morning jam.

where it says old-time folk and bluegrass jam.

Bring your instruments.

Bring it.

Just ever, just some people fiddling out on the lawn there.

That's going to be, the whole town's going to fiddle it up.

Bill Evans Banjo in America.

Yeah.

That's a band.

Shelton and Williams, which sounds like

a very popular 90s country act, I could see.

A couple of friends.

You know, Shelton and Williams, right?

Yeah, they got the best.

Huge, man.

Then they have Mel Lee's Open Mic on Stage.

Okay.

And it says, that's at 445.

Share your talent and your music with the Oak Grove audience.

So it's Open Mic Night over here.

Then at 7.30, the evening concert begins.

Here we go.

With the honey dewdrops.

Oh, my God.

Man, I remember when I was a kid, I just had

just posters all over my wall of the honey dewdrops.

I'm just, man, just idolized them.

Hoped I could meet them someday.

And here we are talking about them.

John McEwen and the Circle Band.

Oh.

Okay.

And that bleeds right into the next morning where they have the Sunday morning song circle.

Oh, boy.

Bring your instrument, rise up, singing books, sing along, listen, and be inspired.

I guess it's like a church sing-along.

I'll get some Sunday morning.

Okay.

Yeah.

That makes sense.

And then an afternoon concert with a different thread.

Okay.

Don't know who that is.

And then, closing it out, Robin and Linda Williams.

Now that I'd pay for.

Robin Williams is back, everybody, and he's singing folk music in Oregon.

He's not dead.

He's hiding.

That's what it was.

It's not dead, lady.

He's hiding.

Let me tell you something.

He's not dead.

He's hiding.

That's what he's doing up there.

He decided that he wanted a cash.

He's tired of all this fame and fortune.

Pacific Northwest is where it's at.

I just want to start over and just do a little folk band with Linda, who is, I assume, his wife.

I don't know.

It's funny, too, because I looked up, they had the other lineups from this.

Last year's lineup had Robin and Linda Williams.

They're fucking stalwarts in this thing.

Staple, yeah.

The Robbie Fulkes trio, F-U-L-K-S.

That's the Robbie Fulkes trio.

He fucks the whole trio.

Lucy Kaplanski.

That's a great stage name.

And my name's Petra Gallo, and I'm telling you that you need to change your name.

That's terrible.

Koblansky sounds worse.

David Wilcox, the Furnace Mountain Band.

All right.

Whole mountain full of furnaces.

The Flybirds, Valerie McQueen, and E.

Brandon Collins.

And then the year before, they had Robin and Linda Williams.

They are, wow.

You can't have a festival without them.

This is their jam.

That's it.

Then there's Dar Williams.

Not sure if they're related to Robin and Linda.

Scott Miller, the Red Volkart trio.

Presley Barker with Luke Barker.

She's bringing Luke?

Oh,

I didn't realize Luke was coming.

Karen Savaka and Pete Heintzman.

That's a band name.

Karen Savaka and Pete Heintzman.

How about you two get together and come up with a name for the two of you to perform under?

You know, like a band name.

Yeah, nobody can figure it out.

Nobody can Google that.

No, it would be hilarious if the Beatles were just called John Lennon, George Harrison, Ringo Starr, Paul McCartney.

That would be the band name, not the Beatles.

That's the name of the Jacobs Fairey Stragglers.

That's Fairy, not Fairy.

Alex Arbaugh and Crystal Artremont.

Armin Trout.

What the fuck does that mean?

What are you doing?

And of course, Buddy Thomas, to make it easy for us.

That said, crime rate in this town, weird crime rate.

Property crime is a good amount above the national average.

Really?

It's about 20% high.

But then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime is under the average by about one-third.

Why do you suppose that is?

I don't know, people.

Teenagers, vandalism, I'm not sure, but I mean, that's strange.

Usually the property and the violent crime kind of go with each other together.

But some of these towns like this, you'll get that like a college town that happens a lot because there's a lot of

kind of, you know, guy pissing in the alley type of crimes that happen or broken window because two idiots got in a fight and broke a car window or something.

The dumb shit.

The dumb shit.

Yeah.

That said,

let's talk about

some murder, and we are going to come in hot here.

August the 7th, 1987.

Let's go back to, here we go.

There's a man named Charles Gates.

Let's talk about him.

Now, Charles Gates, he'd been out late this night.

It was a friend's birthday, and he was out at the friend's birthday party hanging out.

Nice.

Now, Charles is a disabled guy.

He's confined to a wheelchair.

And he had a construction accident about five five years earlier.

Oh, no.

So that really sucks.

Yeah.

To get mangled in a way that's not even like doing something you enjoyed.

You know what I mean?

It's not like he was snowboarding and he fucking went headfirst into an into a pine tree and now he's in a wheelchair and he was like, oh, but that was a great, that was a great run, though, on the way down.

When the wind was blowing through my hair, boy, I said, if my life ends right now, I'd be fine with it.

I'm all right.

This guy's at work doing construction and gets hurt this bad that's horrible that's a shit way to go um but he's been in this wheelchair for five years and navigating himself through it what he does he'll go out at night and hang out with his friends and do stuff and kind of every night and this is late at night middle of the night yeah he will go to denny's because he lives nearby and get a hot chocolate all right It's become his kind of little ritual here.

You know what I mean?

He has a hot chocolate, then he goes home and relaxes.

Fair enough.

So he just got to the Denny's on this evening, and he just got himself into his chair and everything like that, and was ready to wheel himself inside of the Denny's.

And then he heard something.

He heard a woman screaming.

Oh, no.

So he wheeled himself toward the direction of the screaming, which I got to say, that's a lot of balls.

What a hero.

But if you're the victim of anything like this,

you're not the guy you want to come.

Holy shit.

If you hear squeaking as your hero comes to get you, you're like, oh, fuck.

But at the same time, anybody is a great help.

And you don't know.

Maybe this guy is like

the world bench press champion and

he can twist somebody into a pretzel.

Who knows?

You don't know.

Or the

world record holder for the fastest police call.

I mean,

there's that too.

Well, no, he wheels himself over there.

Okay.

And he sees a naked woman lying in the parking lot and blood all over the place.

No.

On top of this woman is a man kneeling over her.

Now,

Charles doesn't know if this guy is the cause.

Or is helping, yeah.

Or is helping.

Did he just get there quicker because he's not in the chair?

Who knows?

So then the guy who is kneeling over her gets up and runs away at top speed.

So Charles goes, well, that's probably not the help.

Somebody that's up to something.

So

he's got good upper body strength because he's been in this chair for five years.

And he saw the the guy flee, sees the woman on the ground, and he wheels on over to this woman.

And he said, quote, I just did what needed doing.

What did he do?

Went over to the woman.

He reached this woman.

He basically kind of

like dove halfway out of his wheelchair to try to help her because she's bleeding everywhere.

There's blood all over.

He can't even tell where the wounds are.

There's so much blood.

Oh, boy.

He can see at one point her throat's been cut, which is obviously a bad sign.

And he sees just holes everywhere, stab wounds all over her, torso, abdomen, all over the place.

Now, he had been trained in first aid some years ago, and he remembered some of it.

So he felt her.

There was no pulse and no breathing at this point, but he had heard screaming 30 seconds earlier.

So he started CPR.

He started doing mouth-to-mouth, chest compressions,

all of this shit.

um he then he called 911 as well or he called to the people started to gather around yeah from the denny's because if you're sitting inside one of those big denny's windows and you see this going on in the parking lot you might mosey on out and see what's happening

so he yells out my god he slit her throat someone call 911 now the they think the guy with the chair did it No, he yells that to them.

Oh, okay, got it, got it.

Yeah, and then he's giving her CPR afterwards

from his wheelchair.

I thought the people coming out of Denny's screamed it.

All right, go ahead.

So at this point, there are people, a crowd gathering from Denny's.

There's a couple guys named Stan Connor and Richard Bergio, and they just finished eating at Denny's, and they were walking to their cars when they heard all this going on.

And at the same time they see that happening, oh my God, he slit her throat or whatever, call 911, they see.

a man heading for a small pickup truck, a little dark-colored Nissan.

And someone shouted, that's him.

That's the son of a bitch that stabbed her.

There he is.

So these two guys get in their cars and try to block the exits.

Oh.

With their cars.

They park their cars sideways in front of the exit.

So this guy can't get out, is how it is.

But the pickup truck just drives over the sidewalk and landscaping.

And, you know, they're not really.

If you just stab somebody, the rules of the road and not wanting to run over the azaleas growing out in front of the Denny's is probably not high on your mind.

Probably don't care.

Yeah.

probably don't give a shit so um

at that point they watched the guy drive away and richard burgio said fuck it and gunned it and started chasing the guy all right

he chased him they're going a hundred miles an hour very quickly oh boy a hundred through milwaukee glads get a license plate and let it go man dude oregon city can be

it got to the point where he was almost out of gas this burgio he's like fuck i i was gonna stop after.

I wasn't prepped for a chase today.

Yeah, I didn't know I was going to do a 100-mile-an-hour chase.

So before he pulls off the chase, he gets the license plate number of this truck.

That's the answer.

That's which, I mean, could be a stolen car.

Who knows?

That might be a story.

But at least you know what car.

Yeah.

So it was Oregon plate number CYW194.

He has that.

He calls 911 and he says, you know, I'm the guy from the Denny's and I got a license plate number and I chased the guy, gave the description of the car.

So they get the license plate, and they run the license plate, and it comes back to a man named Dayton Leroy Rogers.

Dayton, just like the city.

Dayton Leroy Rogers was born September 30th, 1953.

So he's about 34 at this point in time, almost 34.

He also goes by

the name Steve the Gambler.

Steve the Gambler.

Steve the Gambler.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's also a joker and a smoker and a midnight toker, this fucking guy.

Yeah.

Steve the Gambler, he goes by.

It's cooler than Dayton Leroy, I guess.

Steve the Gambler.

So a little background on old Dayton, the guy they were chasing here.

Actually, a lot of background on him.

He is quite an interesting fella here.

Okay.

He is the youngest of three children in his family.

He's from Moscow, Idaho.

That's where he was born.

Now, he's the youngest of three natural-born children to the family, but the family is then going to adopt four more kids.

They got seven and adopted four.

Adopted four, and that pissed them off good.

Yeah.

And we always see that, too.

In a lot of our stories, you'll have somebody in a family whose family adopted a bunch of kids, and it really pissed one of the kids off good.

And they ended up being an asshole.

So he's got a wild life.

His family is going to move very frequently.

His father is a lunatic.

His father's out of his mind.

Ortis Noble Rogers is his father.

Ortis.

O-R-T-I-S.

Ortis.

Didn't know that one.

Never heard it before.

Both his parents are

known as zealous members of the Seventh-day Adventist faith.

Really into it.

Real into it.

Like, that's all they're about.

And we'll talk all about it here.

He's got two biological biological sisters, his two older sisters,

three adopted sisters, and an adopted brother.

Okay.

So, altogether, five sisters and a brother.

That's what he's got.

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And now back to the show.

So Ortis, and this is an odd thing.

His dad, Ortis, didn't like kids.

No?

No.

So you want to to have three and then adopt four more when you don't like them.

There's four strays inside.

Jesus Christ, man.

I hate dogs.

I'm going to the pound to pick a couple up and take them home with me.

Maybe a seven.

It'd be the weirdest thing to do, wouldn't it?

So anyway, yeah, he doesn't even like his own kids.

Never mind the adopted kids.

He didn't even want to have kids.

Okay.

Didn't want of them at all.

The mother, though, Dayton's mother and Ortis' wife, Jasperl, is her name.

Jasperlle.

Ortis and Jasperl are the parents.

Okay.

And they named Dayton.

Anyway, she loved the kids and loved being a mother and a homemaker.

And that was her jam, man.

She really, really liked it.

And it was her decision to adopt more kids

all the time.

Keep adopting kids.

Now, Ortis,

his role is basically...

go out and work and bring money home.

And, you know, if you don't want to deal with the kids, you really don't have to.

And he basically, it was a lot to try to keep a roof over their heads and food because seven kids are a lot to support.

So

they move constantly, constantly.

They're on the move.

Multiple times a year, they're moving.

And not just to a different house, to a different town, different school district.

So imagine having to enroll seven kids in school every couple months.

Oh, my.

That sounds like a goddamn nightmare.

So, and this also makes it so the kids only know each other pretty much.

They don't have outside connections because they're not there long enough to get any kind of deep connection.

So it's so insular when you move around like this.

You're like a band that's on the road for

80 straight days.

You're just in yourself.

Yeah.

You don't even know anybody else.

So Ortis is a big disciplinarian.

Oh.

Big into that.

Always punishing

punishment.

Any kind of punishment.

And we're talking sometimes wasn't even for

they didn't even know what was happening.

Just out of nowhere, he would just attack one of the children in such an intense way.

I mean, he'd leave them in a puddle on the ground and bruised and beaten with blood coming out of them and shit.

Out of nowhere, no one expects it.

He just attacks somebody, starts savagely beating them, never would offer an explanation or even go talk to the kid later and tell him what they did wrong in his mind.

Anything.

He was just, that was it.

You got a beating and then he walked away.

Like, you know, like, you know what happened.

You owed him a hundred bucks.

You should have given it to him.

Like, he's, you know, a gambler.

He's a degenerate gambler they left on the floor.

So

he never apologized, and the children never knew whether the punishment was for what they did or if he was just a sick fuck.

But that'll keep you on edge a lot.

Yeah, that'll make you be expecting the next shoe to drop.

That's a whole house full of on-edge right there.

One of Dayton's brother-in-laws, now this is a guy who married one of his sisters, and this guy guy will later become a minister.

He said, I saw Dayton punished almost every time I was in the house.

I saw him hit with a belt, slapped, and punched.

Every time I visited with the family, it seemed like there was some kind of punishment.

So, I mean, either Dayton is just,

what could he possibly do as a child to draw that kind of ire, you know, unless he's, you know, going out raping people or something.

I can't imagine why you would beat your child savagely like that.

That just doesn't make any sense.

So, on one occasion this man recalls that young dayton was forced to sit in a chair while ortis well ortis punched his legs with his hands and fists quote unquote so he said you sit here and i'm gonna beat your legs yeah which is a weird punishment and the guy also said the weird thing was Ortis would do this and he'd beat these kids and then he would like hurt his hand and then everybody had to have sympathy for him.

Yeah, because

everyone had to like tend to him and make sure he was okay because he hurt his hand from beating children too much it's ridiculous um

dayton would just sit there and take it he never fought back he never tried to run away he just took it um he's the the brother-in-law said he wouldn't even move his hands to protect himself he'd just take the beating which is wild um he also had a real weird lot of weird thoughts about sex ortis obviously as you can imagine.

If he's this kind of controlling lunatic.

Hate that they know that.

Yeah, he would continually preach to his kids that, wow, that they all had an evil entity inside of them living.

And that's sex drive.

That's an evil entity.

Oh, just like a little demon.

Picture it with like a, just a little demon with like a, you know, with like a bondage mask on, basically.

That's how you can, that's how you know that one from the other demons.

It's got like a whip and a bondage mask.

You go, oh, that must be that demon.

Okay.

So he would say that it was always living in them.

And he would, he tells them that he's attempting to remove it by basically

constantly pumping the Bible into them.

He said, I'm doing this to remove the sex demon that lives in you.

Oh, boy.

That's why we're spending the entire night doing this instead of anything else all the time.

So it was a lot for the kids.

And that's, it's just a lot.

He also sent them to Seventh-day adventist schools yeah and all that kind of deal so i mean just

tries to immerse them in religion so they won't have a sex demon in them

he also would censor shit like he makes north korea look loose with the censorship it's wild um

he was he'd have to approve everything that was watched read or listened to in the house

i have to approve it personally

no it's crazy

He went so far, this is fucking nuts.

Ortis was a big,

this is ridiculous.

We were talking like in the 60s when all that Hawaiian shit was popular.

Yeah.

He loved Hawaiian music.

Really?

Which was hugely popular back then.

Ukulele's, yeah.

He loved the Hawaiian records.

So he had a bunch of Hawaiian records, but

on the covers of the Hawaiian records, you know what the covers look like, right?

Chicks with grass skirts doing hula.

Chicks and grass skirts.

Exactly.

Hawaiian stuff he would draw clothes on their bodies with fat with black felt pen

so no exp flesh would be exposed except for faces and hands and a pantsuit for this one yeah and a and a burqa for you there you go

so that is insane you so it's gone too far if you're a kid too right you're a kid looking to whack it okay

you at that age and pre-internet too we're talking this is in the the 60s.

So we're talking, you don't even have a Playboy was like a visual aids are few and far.

Yeah.

There's no porn movies.

There's none of that shit.

You can't just look somebody up on your phone and get a picture of their tits.

Like that's none of that shit.

This is like.

You're a visual guy.

It's tough for you.

You can whack it to a Hula album.

You can do it.

Like back to that.

You're taking the only outlet I have to whack it, and you're covering it up with a black felt pen.

Not cool.

Yeah.

Not cool at all.

But that's the kind of control he wants to have on you.

Is that

when visitors, people come over, they'd ask about that.

Why did you do it?

Because he'd like, I'll play some albums.

And he'd do it.

And they'd be like, why are all the women wearing snowsuits?

I don't understand this.

Aren't they Hawaiian?

What's going on?

Super weird.

He would say, oh, those women are sluts.

That's why.

It's part of the music, man.

It's part of the culture.

Why do you want to dress like?

Robert Palmer.

They're on the beach.

What do you want from them?

It's very beach-appropriate outfit.

So

he said the women were sluts, and he would not tolerate such a display of pornography in his house.

Pornography.

Pornography.

A woman in a grass skirt is pornography.

A woman exercising her culture, mind you.

That's just

Hawaiian.

Yeah, this is part of the culture.

It's not

a Hawaiian orgy.

It's just

going to the beach and,

it's fine.

Wow.

He did like the music, though, he said.

I like the music.

That's crazy.

Not these whores on the cover, these trumpets and harlots over here.

Can't take that.

I don't know if that's going to.

I don't see how that's going to help the kids.

No,

it's certainly not going to

make them normal.

No,

it might make them very scared and insecure about themselves, or the other way.

It could go either direction.

Oh, yeah, it does go either.

For me, I'd be like, what is under under that black felt pen?

That must be amazing if I can't see it.

Can I use a quarter and scratch that off?

I'd be able to jerk off to that in like two seconds.

It's got to be so good.

That's why he's covering it up.

He let me see the Sears catalog, so this has to be better.

So he also taught his children that women who had sex prior to marriage, or even ones who, quote, necked with boys on dates, necked, made out and kissed, quote, should be stoned just like the whores in the Bible.

That's what he said.

Oh my God.

So we'll call this extreme.

There's not, this isn't, you know, hey, you should be a little more chaste and a little more, you know, I'd like everybody to wait till marriage.

This is, I'll stone a girl to death because she made out with a kid in his fucking 62 Impala.

That's insane.

So

a lot of chaos going on during all this.

The other thing, too, his father, if you're going to have all of these

concrete, you know, just locked in thoughts and everything like that.

You better be pretty stable and be like an example of something.

And he's not.

He's a kind of a dickhunt, just a dickhole.

He's

a painter, like a house painter.

He's a baker.

He sometimes teaches in church-run schools.

Basically, if he got a job five towns over, they're moving five towns over.

And he's

uprooting seven kids and everything else and his wife and moving.

It's a lot.

Sometimes four times a year they'd move.

So they said that the children were never in the same school for more than, you know, for a whole school year.

So they could never form any relationships.

And that made them kind of weird and kind of recluse and everything.

So

they also

said a lot of people said that the parents, Ortis and Jasperl, had an unreasonable fear that if they allowed their children to make friends with outside people,

then they would steal the kids' love from them.

They said.

Oh, you've only got a certain amount of affection.

There's a love pie.

Yeah.

And if you give him three slices, then

that was the point.

Yeah.

So, yeah, if you give me three slices, then, you know, what do you got left for mom and dad here?

Now, the other thing that they have a bit of an issue with is Ortis and Jasperl have an obsession with Armageddon.

Not the movie.

Not the terrible movie.

The actual event of Armageddon.

They believe that it was near and they needed, quote, needed to be away from the wicked big city influence.

Is that a thing for the Seventh-day Adventists that the end of days is coming while you live?

Listen, I'm not a religion expert.

I'm not a biblical scholar, but I feel like in all the religion I've heard, there's always some sort of

saying it's happening right now, and some are saying it could happen, and it's kind of part of it.

Some are saying one way or another it's coming.

Yeah, it's yeah, I mean, I guess that's why, I don't know.

So, yeah,

they ended up basically.

This is from the brother-in-law again, said they always lived out in the country or in small towns away from everything.

They said they always kind of lived in the middle of nowhere.

Occasionally, they'd live in houses with no electricity or plumbing,

just a structure, sometimes in trailers, sometimes even in cars.

Then it gets worse than cars.

At one point, while living in Idaho, Ortis was so in-between jobs that he found an abandoned chicken coop with a dirt floor

and moved the family into it.

It's not livable.

No, he converted it into, quote, a house by just putting up like, you know, pieces of wood on the side of it to keep the wind out.

The wind?

Yeah.

And they lived in there.

Oh, man.

It's real weird.

Now, when they have to live in these environments, when you have seven kids living on top of each other like that, it gets weird.

You know what I mean, from time to time.

Every house is a Charlie Buckets' house.

Every damn place they go is Charlie Buckets.

So it's strange.

So they said that at one point during this,

one of these

times when

they were all forced to live very close to each other here,

this is when he started developing odd sexual interests.

Dayton, it does, not Ortis.

Orders already has odd sexual interests he's already bizarre yeah yeah he already likes to

he jerks off to fully clothed hula women so that he drew the clothes that he drew the clothes on maybe that's why he's like I'll put the outfit that turns me on on him

so Dayton develops a very specific sexual interest in his sister's feet oh no I don't know where that would come how that would get into a young man's head or why or I don't know that's I'm i'm not a psychiatrist but for some reason he

was super into his sister's feet if he'd have just hung on a minute he could have been an adult that just likes other adults feet that's fine yeah that would be well he does fine yeah fine i didn't i didn't say he raped his sister i just said he didn't like a tagstar fucking her feet he just

he was into her feet yeah the first and the way that

the the way that manifested was

that the sisters were always trying to find their shoes.

You could never find, where's my shoes?

Where's my shoes?

They could never find their shoes.

Yeah.

And that's why at night, after everyone would go to sleep, Dayton would masturbate while holding his sister's shoes.

Yep.

Which, again,

I don't know what wires got crossed in what way to make you jerk off to a shoe, but that's what he was into.

Maybe

if you didn't draw fucking parkas on the Hawaiian girls, he could have jerked off to that and not had to find something weird to find to jerk off to.

And it's fine to jerk off to a shoe, whatever.

Just not a fucking sister's shoe.

Don't jerk off to anything that's in the universe of your sister.

That's just

stranger's shoe.

Don't care.

Yeah, be Jerry Brutus.

That's less weird.

So he would later tell people that after his family moved again,

he told people, quote, his sisters became whores and would force him to engage in sexual acts with them.

Which Which no one thinks was true, by the way.

That's the other thing.

No one thinks that's true, which is interesting.

That's a broad definition of it anyway.

Exactly.

More like, I'm turned on by them.

I feel weird about it, so I'm going to say bad shit about them, kind of a thing.

And I'd appreciate them making me so horny.

Yes, and if they could go shoe shopping a little more often, that would be helpful.

He's rolling around here.

Yeah, I've seen the same pair of these fucking penny loafers.

These kids aren't doing it for me anymore.

He thought they needed to suffer like he'd suffered, he said too, because they were terrible.

By the time he's in middle school, they had moved to College Place, Washington, which is near Walla Walla.

And

I guess dad got a job at a bakery owned by relatives.

Dayton worked at the bakery too when he's 12 years old

while attending school, the Seventh-day Adventist school, the Walla Walla Valley Academy,

where he didn't get very good grades.

Didn't really care.

He's not dumb.

He just didn't like school at all.

He was not into it.

Now, during this time, 12 years old in the seventh grade, he has a little bit of a problem with the law here.

He's kind of bored, I guess.

Him and his friend were caught by police shooting at passing cars with a BB gun.

Yeah.

Trying to break the windows.

Okay.

So, I mean, that's a 12-year-old.

That's kind of,

I mean, it's obviously not okay.

You could really hurt somebody, but at the same time, it's not out of the bounds of no cop would be like, oh, my God, but he needs to be in prison forever.

They'd go, listen.

A passing car, though, is kind of bad.

It's all bad.

Yeah.

I mean, you could, what if one of the windows is open, you could hit somebody.

There's a lot of ways that this is terrible, but it's also kind of normal for, not normal, but average for in 1965 for some kid to shoot BBs at at a car.

Most of them had slingshots, probably.

This is just an up from that a little bit.

He's an upscale Dennis the Menace, this guy.

He's ready to go.

He's Dayton the Menace.

So

that's what he got caught doing.

Him and his friend got probation in this, actually, but Dayton's dad was pissed.

Ortis was real pissed.

He beat the living shit out of Dayton for this one.

So that's not good.

And shockingly, as his teen years progress, he gets a continually worsening relationship with his father.

Is that right?

Weird.

Strange.

Now, Jasperrel, mom,

she just wanted Ortis to

just treat him.

She wanted him and Ortis, Dayton and Ortis, to have a real father-son-close relationship.

That's all she wanted.

That's it.

Yeah.

She said that she wanted them, quote, or she wanted Ortis, quote, to do things with Dayton like a lot of fathers do.

But he just wasn't a pal with Dayton like I wished.

A pal.

A pal.

No, he beats him fucking unmercifully.

That's not a pal.

Jimmy, how many times do I beat you unmercifully?

I mean, sometimes, but not that often.

Yeah.

I mean, you throw it back at me when I need it.

You know, it happens.

That's what friends are for.

You know, unmerciful beatings back and forth.

Whew.

I lost count.

So the father and son became even more distant, though, and things get really, really weird and bad here.

Dayton grows to hate his father and starts basically anything his father pushes toward him, he rejects at this point.

And this is what you get.

You either get someone who is going to be, you know, hyper like you are, hyper-religious and whatever, hyper-moral, or you're going to get someone who goes, no, no, I'm doing the complete opposite of what you fucking tell me.

That's it.

You and I don't want to be you.

Yep.

Find a preacher with four daughters, and I guarantee you, all four of the daughters aren't going to turn out the same fucking way, or four sons, or four anything.

So anyway, he hates his dad, and then he starts having a resentment toward his mother, too, because his mother wouldn't stand up for him.

Right.

So he realized his father's being unreasonable.

He's like, oh, she's not fucking helping either.

So thanks a lot.

Now, shortly after the BB gun incident, Dayton's parents are going to send him away.

This is about age 15.

They sent him away to the Upper Columbia Academy.

Yeah.

which is a church-run boarding school in Spangle, Washington, near Spokane.

And he, Dayton, was pissed when he got sent here.

Didn't like this.

No.

His grades got even worse.

He gets pretty much all Ds now.

Not at the boarding school for very long because his parents end up moving to Pleasant Hill, Oregon.

So he moved with them where he attended the Emerald Junior Academy the following year.

He also worked part-time as a cabinet maker.

as a 15-year-old, which is an odd job for a 15-year-old, not a laborer, not a hole digger, a cabinet maker.

Carpentry, yeah.

That's like fine carpentry, though.

That's yeah, you work your way into that.

Yeah, that's a different type of carpenter.

It's very specific.

And actually,

it's incredible if you can do it.

Oh, yeah.

I knew a guy who was a cabinet maker, and he made incredible.

I mean, he was amazing with what he could do.

It's so meticulous.

Yeah.

But Dayton is pissed and pissed and pissed.

His grades continue to fall.

Now he's failing some shit, and he's not doing well.

At age 16, he drops out of the academy in the middle of his sophomore year

and moves.

His parents just absolutely forbade him from doing this, but he's not listening to them by now.

So he moves away from them to Corvallis, Oregon, where he gets a job as a house painter earning $2.35 an hour.

$2.35.

$19.

We're talking $19.70.

That's not bad money, actually.

That's actually

decent for a kid, especially.

It's very little, but it's very little money to live on, is it?

I think it's over $20 an hour now.

I mean, it's not for a child, that's not bad.

For someone who just dropped out of school is 16 years old.

Yeah, he's doing it.

Yeah, back then you could probably get an apartment, some little studio or something.

Fuck yeah.

Yeah, if you're making over 20 bucks an hour back then, yeah, things were a lot different.

So that's what he's doing, basically.

That's his whole deal.

1972 comes around,

and he's a house painter at this point now, like his dad.

So no matter what, you're going to, you hate your dad.

I'm not going to be like my dad.

Guess what you're doing?

It's going to make you.

Same shit as your dad.

He,

I guess he moved there while in Eugene, he began dating a 16-year-old girl named Julie,

who his parents hated, of course.

Right.

So obviously, what's going to happen then?

They're going to get married immediately.

Yeah, because they hate her.

So that works out perfectly.

So he marries a 16-year-old.

They hate her not because they're getting married or because they're together, but because she's a Lutheran.

Oh.

Oh, not those damn shifty Lutherans.

Are you kidding me?

Good lord.

What is she from Minnesota?

I mean, who freaks if your kid brought home, this is my girlfriend, she's Lutheran.

You'd go, okay.

Anyway,

where are you from?

Like,

who cares?

You know?

But she also,

they thought that she had a problem with drugs and alcohol.

Oh.

And that's true because at one point she had to be institutionalized for problems with drug and alcohol.

So

she's got problems, this young lady here.

To Dayton's family, this was just, it was the ultimate disgrace of the family.

He's marrying some girl he shouldn't marry and he's moving away and he's not listening.

They couldn't understand, A, how he could possibly marry outside the faith, and especially a Lutheran, they said.

My God.

Yes.

Okay.

So July 72 is when he gets married to Julie.

So he's married for a month, total newlywed, all right.

So he picks up a 15-year-old hitchhiker,

a young lady,

and has sex with her.

Oh, well, I guess at that point, we'll say he raped a 15-year-old because a 15-year-old can't really consent to have sex with an adult.

So there you go.

He picks up a 15-year-old and that's groomed a child in a moment.

Very quickly from fucking the 7-Eleven to her house.

I mean,

that's a very fast groom.

Then on August 25th, 1972, which is like a week later,

they go out on their, quote, second date.

The 15-year-old?

The 15-year-old.

He's now dating sophomores while he's married,

which is excellent.

Anyway, he drove this 15-year-old 15-year-old into the woods near Eugene, Oregon, so they could have a little sexual interlude.

And at one point, while this is going on, they're getting into it.

And at one point, he pulls out a knife and starts stabbing her in the abdomen.

Oh, boy.

Just starts fucking savagely attacking her abdomen, stabbing her up, saying, quote, I just couldn't trust you anymore.

Okay.

Interesting response.

Now, she's stabbed in the stomach.

Yeah.

She's bleeding in pain, and now he feels bad.

Well, what do you do?

He said, oh my God, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

So he proposes to her.

She's bleeding.

She's bleeding out currently with multiple stab wounds.

And he said, Will you marry me?

And he's married.

Yeah, and he's also already married.

Yeah, as soon as I get some, you know, my internal fucking organs sewn back together, maybe.

We'll talk about it.

But for now, can we go to the hospital?

So she said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll get married.

No problem.

Yeah, take me to the hospital.

All right.

So he took her to the hospital.

And when they get to the hospital, when some scumbag brings in a 15-year-old girl with tons of stab wounds on her, they tend to call the cops.

Even in 1972, they called the cops for that.

He gets arrested for stabbing her in the stomach.

Okay.

And she survives.

She's fine.

She's fine.

I mean, mentally, probably not, but dramatic, but she's fine.

Now, imagine,

imagine being Julie.

Oh, boy.

You're 15 and you marry a girl, or 16, you marry some guy who you think, I assume you think he's the end-all, be-all.

If you're marrying him at 16, you're married for a month, so you think you're a newlywed and things are great.

And he's out raping and stabbing teenagers

in a month.

That's

wow, that's a lot.

So.

When they arrest young Dayton, Steve the Gambler, they bring him down to the station, and I have some of the transcript of the interrogation from 1972, which is fun.

I mean, not fun, but it's fun to have an interrogation from that old.

So they tell him, come on, Dayton, we talked to the girl.

Yeah.

She told us that she did not stab herself because he said she stabbed herself.

She just started going nuts and stabbing herself.

And they said, she said she didn't stab herself either intentionally or accidentally.

Do you want to hear the tapes?

They say to him, we have her recorded saying it.

We got her words.

So then he doesn't wait.

The detective just presses a play button and Dayton listens to the girl's statement of all of this.

And he starts getting all freaked out now because he thought he could just lie his way out of it.

And no, she told on him.

They said, do you understand what she said, Dayton?

As they switch off the player here.

And he shook his head yes, but didn't answer.

He just nodded.

nodded his head.

And they say, well, what do you say, Dayton?

Is the girl's statement true?

And he just shook his head no.

He wouldn't speak.

He's just shaking his head no.

They said, it would be in your best interest if you were truthful, you know, Dayton.

So Dayton looked down and didn't know what to do.

He started chewing his fingernails.

Uh-oh.

And then he tells the detectives, quote, I need a little time to get my thoughts in order.

Oh.

You're like, this guy is wacky.

But he said,

yeah, he said, I will tell you everything.

I'll tell you everything that I know.

I'll tell you the truth.

You just got to give me a minute to get my shit together here.

Okay.

But he said, why not?

We'll go grab a cup of coffee.

We'll be back.

So

can't wait to hear what this asshole has to say.

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Okay, so

for the final trivia question, what is the largest mammal in the world?

Reminder, no phones allowed.

Sir in the orange, your phone away, please.

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he starts out by saying quote i'm married yeah okay

i've only i've only been married about a month and i've been having some difficulties with my wife

okay

you're married a month figure it out yeah he said that his wife was young yeah you married a sophomore again that's what do you want?

Young is a word.

Yeah.

Yeah, she's a teenager or a child, and she was having problems adjusting to marriage.

Yeah.

She was in science class last week, and now she's married to you.

It's a big change probably here.

He said that he only wanted to talk to this young woman.

I'll leave her name out of this, the 15-year-old.

He said he just wanted to have a friend he could relate to when he was having problems with his wife.

He just wanted to have a sounding board.

I needed somebody around her age that would understand.

That would get what she's about.

But it's just a strange thing because if you want a friend to talk to, you don't have sex with that person.

That's the point.

So he said that's all he planned to do that day.

He said he took the young lady into the woods just to talk and he wanted to just vent and bear his soul and hopefully get some feedback.

He said, but one thing led to another.

You know how it is.

He said before he knew it, they were, quote, frolicking on the ground

where he'd be

frolic, you know, I guess making out, rolling around on the ground.

I don't know why they're on the ground instead of back in the car, but that's fine.

He said that he began fondling her legs and feet.

Here we go with the feet again.

This guy, fucking weirdo.

So he began fondling her legs and feet.

And he said that he attacked her when he leaned over to kiss her.

She thought he was kissing her.

And he said she didn't respond or even put her arms around me while I was kissing her.

That's when it happened.

So apparently she wasn't as ravenously into this kiss as he was, and that's it.

So

he said, you know, that's when it happened.

She doubled up and I drew back, startled, then looked down and saw the knife in her stomach.

What?

She had both hands on it and she was pulling it out.

I stood up in complete confusion and shock and said, oh my God, what did I do now?

Or what do I do do now?

Not what did I do.

What do I do now?

I must have been taken over by the devil or else I wouldn't have done it.

He says.

So his claim is

got horny, devil took over.

Made out with her, stabbed her once, walked away.

That's his answer.

She's stabbed up a lot, though, right?

Yeah, it must have been the devil.

Yeah.

So that's all.

Blacked out.

He said his mind went blank just prior to when it happened, so he doesn't know what happened.

That had to be the devil.

He said, that's all I can think.

The detective said, did you fuck the girl, Dayton?

Which is great.

He tells this big horse shit thing.

Did you fuck the girl, Dayton?

Come on now.

He says, no, no, we just kissed.

They said, what happened to her bra then?

Oh.

Yeah.

Where's your bra?

Where's that?

What's up with that shit?

Yeah.

He said, she just got hot and wanted to take it off.

Wow.

He said he helped her take it off, but he insisted that he did not engage in sexual intercourse with her.

Absolutely not.

He said following the stabbing, he was so, you know, in a tizzy.

He just grabbed the bra and threw it into some bushes along with the knife and the knife sheath.

Just threw it into the bushes.

Doesn't know what he did, but he knows it's wrong.

Wow, those are expensive.

You can't just be throwing those willy-nilly.

No.

I don't think they had expensive bras in 1972.

Oh, you're probably right.

They're probably just, every one of them sucked.

Every one of them, yeah, none of them, none of them had like, you know, some model they paid $40 million to put it on.

So they have to now charge you $130 for a fucking bra, make your fucking boobs stand up straighter or whatever.

So that's what he said.

He said it was in a rural location just off the Lorain Highway in the vicinity of the Isaac Walton League firing range.

Okay.

So he said, I'll take you there if you want.

Yeah, let's go.

And they said, love to, Dayton.

Let's go on a trip, shall we?

Let's do this.

Let's go.

So it was shortly before 2 p.m.

when Dayton and the policeman arrived at the location near Macbeth Road.

Upon entering a field, there's a lot of heavy forest in the background and all that kind of thing.

Dayton pointed out, there's where I stabbed her right there.

He then pointed to the east.

over

past a fence that separated the field from the firing range and said he'd thrown the brasier in that direction.

So the detective eventually found the bra and found the knife sheath a few steps to the northeast.

He then said, keep going a little farther north and that's where you'll find the knife.

And it was in some bushes lying beneath the bottom of a barbed wire fence.

All right.

So, yeah, that's that's interesting too, because it's, it makes perfect sense if you're throwing things.

A bra won't go very far.

Yeah.

It's not a good throwing item.

A knife sheath will go farther than a bra, but then a knife will fucking cruise.

You could throw that thing.

Throw that handful of three and see which one goes further.

Yeah, well, that's exactly how they're going to land.

So now on the way downtown, back down after getting all this shit, Detective Miller is talking to Dayton in the car, and Dayton says, okay, fine, I had sex with her.

You were right.

I did.

He said the sex act had occurred the day before in his car on a side road near the community of Fern Ridge.

So that's when he picked her up hitchhiking.

Day before.

Yeah, they went out for their second date the next day.

Jesus.

He said they would also have sex.

They would also have had sex the day of the stabbing if he hadn't attacked her for her apparent lack of interest.

He said that the sexual incidents between them had been mutually agreed upon by both of them.

And either way, he is held on a charge of first-degree assault and released on bail.

Okay.

So from this, they're they're going to make him undergo a psych evaluation.

Yeah.

Figure out what's wrong with him?

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's just a little off and they're like, this doesn't sound right.

It just doesn't sound right.

So they do.

This is October of 1972 is the examination.

It was performed by a psychiatrist from Eugene, Oregon.

They said he was neatly groomed and, you know, looked nice.

He didn't show up.

with like, you know, leaves in his hair,

ranting and raving or anything like that.

They said he was somewhat anxious and had tension during the interview.

The interview, and they did a series of standardized psychiatric tests, including the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory, which we talked about a lot with Ted Bundy in a Ted Bundy Patreon episode we did here,

the sentence completion test, and the draw a person test.

Oh, which, again, Ted Bundy did.

This is like the standard.

These are all what Bundy did.

So

now Dayton performed well on the test and appeared oriented in all spheres of reference.

So he's not a dummy.

He doesn't have some organic brain problem that's not connecting, you know, synapses or something here.

But during the interview,

he said he recanted everything he said to the detectives earlier.

He said that I told them that because that's what they wanted to hear.

He said, but it's my opinion that the girl stabbed herself and she was under the influence of some kind of drug at the time and stabbed herself.

So they said, that's what I think.

So that's, that's his excuse for this with a psychiatrist, which is,

you know what I mean?

That's a, yeah, that's not a good excuse.

You can tell the cops that, but your shrink is not going to buy that shit.

And neither are the cops.

But so anyway, here is the diagnostic impression written by a Dr.

Cook.

They said there was no evidence during the interview that his judgment was impaired and he seemed to have significant levels of psychiatric insight.

It is my opinion opinion that the defendant at this time does not have a mental disease or defect, which would, from the basis, which would form the basis for an adequate defense against the charges of first-degree assault.

It is noted during the examination that the defendant consistently maintained that he was in complete awareness of his mental faculties and denied being under the influence of drugs or alcohol, which would alter his mental status.

Diagnostically, I feel the defendant falls into the classification of depressive neuroses, probably superimposed on a long-standing schizoid personality disorder.

Really?

There's no suggestion at the present time, nor at the time of the alleged crime, that either of these emotional disorders would render the defendant incapable of distinguishing between right and wrong or being aware of the criminality of an assaultive act.

So he's all fucked up, but not fucked up enough to not know the law.

Yeah, that's crazy.

He has a disease that's going to cause him to do violent things.

He also knows that it's wrong.

Yeah.

And that's the standard for law.

That's a dangerous one.

Yeah, they don't care how crazy you are under the law.

They just care if you knew that what you were doing was wrong, and then you're guilty.

It doesn't matter.

He's got a propensity for violence.

And he knows it bad.

For sure.

And he knows it's bad.

And he still does it.

So, yeah.

Now he is facing jail time,

like a good amount of jail time.

So he plea bargains the charge from a second degree assault all the way down to coercion.

I'm sorry, this, I'm sorry, this is bargained the charge down to a second degree assault.

Coercion is something later.

I'm sorry.

So

yeah, he's going to end up with that.

He pleads guilty, and as a result, he receives no prison time

and is placed on four years of probation.

That's what he gets.

Yeah.

So second degree assault.

Now, less than six months later,

Jesus Christ, this is crazy.

Less than six months later, the police are aware of him again because

according to reports, Dayton and his wife, Julie, his 16-year-old wife,

had taken in two teenage girls listed as runaways and let them live at the house.

Oh, no.

Runaway high school students.

Also, at this point, he's a mess.

He starts drinking heavily,

real heavily.

When he would get shit-faced, he'd start making out with the girls and requesting sexual favors from them, the teenagers they took in.

At one point, his relationship, he's just having an affair with both of them, I guess you could call it.

At one point,

one of the girls starts trying to get him to leave his wife and be with them.

With them?

With them.

Who's not taking that deal?

Crazy.

Well,

nobody's an adult here.

What am I talking to say?

They're not even adults.

Neither's his wife.

So what's the difference?

He doesn't care.

He looks at a high school yearbook like a dating site.

This is insane.

Like it's Tinder.

That's a two-for-one deal right there.

That's crazy.

That's fucking nuts.

So Dayton's wife, Julie, eventually leaves him because of this.

Yeah.

She leaves because he's banging around with two other girls in the house.

So she ends up moving in with two men that she knows.

Julie.

So you can imagine Dayton's thrilled about that.

Yeah.

So Dayton found out where she was staying and demanded that she come home.

Yeah.

Okay.

Now she gets home.

The two young wards here didn't realize she was coming home and they're mad she's back.

Yeah.

So Dayton's mad that they're mad that she's back and Julie's mad that they didn't.

It's a mess at this point.

Everybody's mad that everybody's here.

A violent brawl erupts among the whole group here.

A violent brawl.

Dayton tells his wife and both of the men, by the way, that she was living with that he would kill all three of them if he ever saw them again.

And Julie eventually returns home.

Okay.

So she's going to live in this weird quadruple that's going on here.

Wow.

So.

Now at age 20, August 1st, 1973,

like I said, he's got all these, he's got these teenage girls living in the house.

This night, during this evening, Julie is out somewhere.

He's been drinking, and without warning, he attacks the two young girls that he's there with

with a beer bottle, beating them repeatedly about their heads.

Whoa.

Just beating them with a beer bottle.

Yeah.

Clonking on them.

So

then

he freaked out

because, you know, he thought he didn't know what he did, basically.

He freaked out and didn't know what to do because, you know, now they have lumps all over their head and I'm sure they're upset.

So he jumps into his house and speeds away.

By the way, in his white 67 Camaro.

Cool fucking car.

Yeah.

Yeah.

67 Camaro is a great car.

Now, neither girl's severely injured, but they contacted the police, and Dayton was arrested near his home after he lost control of his Camaro and crashed into another vehicle.

Oh, no.

He was hammered.

he left the house shit-faced and that's what happened so the cops showed up at this accident scene and they were like oh we were going to arrest you anyway this is easy perfect crash that one god damn it uh he was charged with one count each of second and third degree assault in connection with this attack and that was that so

that's it uh second and third degree assault now Would this be considered a probation violation?

You'd think so, right?

You know, from his last assault of a teenage girl, he's doing the exact same thing.

The prosecutors petitioned the court to revoke probation, but the judge found him not guilty by reason of insanity.

Yes.

He came in for a hearing, and they said, I don't think he's guilty.

Insanity.

Wow.

And puts him into a hospital, the Oregon State Hospital, in March of 74.

Okay.

He's going to spend nine months in the hospital.

Wow.

Which, yeah, instead of jail, essentially.

So on December 12th, 1974,

he gets out.

He's released from the hospital.

There he is.

Now, at this point, he doesn't know what to do with himself.

No.

His family wants nothing to do with him.

He doesn't really want anything to do with his family.

His wife, like, you know, lives with other people and dudes.

Girls are calling cops on him, and he doesn't know what to do.

So he moved to Eugene, Oregon now.

I'm sorry, they had moved to Eugene, his wife and everything.

So he moves to Salem.

He gets a job as a house painter and moves into an apartment with the minister from the church he began attending while he was hospitalized.

So the guy

from the church takes him in.

He still has violent sexual fantasies.

He masturbates multiple times a day, as much as he can get in, as much as he can squeeze in, really.

He's jerking it.

Really getting it in there.

February of 1975, he meets a woman.

Great.

Oh, what a lucky lady she is.

Sherry Miller is her name.

And she's known as very attractive physically and very naive and innocent as well.

Yeah.

Which is, you know, a guy likes that.

A young man likes that.

Young men are into that.

That's a separate type of man that really likes that.

Yeah.

Yeah, especially guys under 20 or under 25 really like that because then they can feel like they're the experienced one or whatever.

As you get older, you're not interested in that anymore.

You're interested in a decent blowjob at that point.

That's not going to come from,

I don't care how pretty you are.

You don't know what you're doing.

That's different.

That's just life.

You know what I mean?

That's a tough job to be handling, lady.

And

we want some experience after a while, some fucking know-how.

When you can lean on your looks to get past it, then it's probably not very good.

So, yeah, she's sexually inexperienced.

She's also very religious.

She's from Canby.

Now,

she loved

everything like that.

And she loved him, thought he was great right away.

I don't know what the hell ingratiated him to her.

Well, he's probably charming.

He loved her family.

He thought her family was awesome.

She is like a good family.

She's from a good family where everybody likes each other and they're nice to each other and they encourage their kids.

And he was like, this is awesome.

This is so cool.

They're real clean-cut and loving.

He loved Sherry's father, Roy.

Loved it.

Loved it.

Loved Roy.

Thought he was a great guy.

So soon he moves out of his apartment that he was living in with the minister and rents an apartment of his own in Woodburn.

This is to be closer to Sherry and her family.

Now, he's happy and he really likes Sherry and he really likes her family, but he's also really into some sexual shit that he can't really talk to her about or get into.

So he would basically

still, he would hang out with Sherry, hang out with her family, and then he'd go out at night and hook up with other women, basically, go to bars and find somebody or find someone in the street if he had to.

He's going to get some that night, though.

That's what's going to happen.

Mousie going to get some dick tonight, as the Wild and Wonderful Whites told us.

So

he and Sherry are married on October 25th, 1975.

So very quickly,

they get married.

Sherry and her family hope that this is going to be great for everybody, but they had no idea who Dayton really is and what he's all about, what he's into.

Is he divorced now?

I assume so.

He's got to be marrying Sherry, yeah.

So he's got to have gotten divorced.

Now, newlywed life for him.

Yeah, the courtship.

Yeah.

The courtship.

He's got a young bride.

She's pretty.

She's vivacious and got the family that he likes.

Everything should be going well for him.

Problem is, things started to

kind of deteriorate for him.

He had problems at the painting company where he works.

There was a union issue and there was a big strike and there was all this shit.

So he was unemployed and dependent on Sherry and her family.

Uh-oh.

He wasn't sexually satisfied with his wife at all

and started getting even more into sex with people that he knew from bars and stuff like that.

And, you know, he was having sex all the time.

He literally.

Why is he so goddamn horned off?

Five different chicks.

Because his dad never let him see the goddamn hula album.

Just let the kid jerk off to some broad in the grass skirt and none of this would happen.

He's like, he won't need to do it every day, seven times a day for the rest of his life.

That's it.

That's it.

That's all it is.

I'm convinced of that.

I'm not a psychiatrist, but that seems probably what it is.

So he's still not satisfied with anything.

So he starts to get depressed and begins drinking very heavily and smoking some weed and using some amphetamines from time to time.

Let's mix meth into this as well.

Why not?

And he started getting severe headaches as well.

This is the time for years,

severe headaches he starts to get, which I mean, maybe it's all the booze and speed.

Yeah, I don't know.

That would give me a headache, but who knows?

So anyway, he keeps getting more depressed, more agitated.

the more sex and drugs and alcohol that he ingests, basically.

So he's at home.

He's more depressive.

He's kind of more alienated from his family and friends and everything like that.

And

he just basically

is a jackass after this.

Now, December 4th, 1975,

okay.

Sherry's questioning him going, where the hell are you?

Where are you at night?

Seriously.

Where the fuck do you go?

He exploded.

How dare you?

How dare you ask me where I am?

Question me?

How dare you?

They have a huge fight,

and he storms out of the house.

Okay.

Okay.

He thought in his mind, I'm going to drive to Eugene and not tell Sherry.

That's it.

I'm not going to tell her.

So he just takes off and he's not going to talk to her.

What he ends up doing is finding an 18-year-old girl.

Oh, my God.

And this is February 24th, or that's December 4th.

Oh, I'm sorry.

December 4th, he finds an 18-year-old girl and rapes her.

Okay.

After a fight with his wife.

Oh, boy.

She turns him in,

and he's indicted on first-degree rape charges.

Oh, great.

Great.

He's allowed to remain free pending a trial in May.

We shouldn't do that, right?

Well, not for this guy.

He's got no bearings.

It's not like, well, he has to be to work on Monday and he'll be there all the time and his probation officer could check on him.

You're just putting this guy in the wind.

He's got nowhere to be.

Nope.

So February 24th, 1976, while out on bond, awaiting trial for first-degree rape.

Okay.

He finds two high school girls.

Yeah.

And he holds them both at knife point

and rapes one of them while the other is forced to watch and held at knife point.

Oh boy.

That's nice.

Disgusting.

And then he apologized afterwards.

Well, at least I'm so sorry.

Yeah.

One of the young ladies said, quote, he apologized as if it was all some kind of game.

Like, oh, yeah, I'm sorry.

My bad.

So what he does is he's then driving them in the car.

They're tracked with him in the car, but it's raining out

and he gets stuck in the mud.

So he had them tied up with ropes.

In the car.

What do you think?

In the car?

What do you was going to do with them?

This is after he raped them.

Yeah.

He figured out, you know, you can't let them go after you rape them because they'll tell on you and then you go to jail.

So he has to untie them because he can't push the car out by himself.

He needs them to help push the car out.

Gonna need a little help here, victims.

I mean, ladies.

Yeah.

So they get out and they're like, yeah, so we're going to the back bumper.

Okay, so yeah, you get in the middle.

Bye.

And they just fucking ran away as fast as they could out into the rain while he's standing there like an asshole in his car.

I can't push my car out.

No, I can't chase them because then they're going to find my car and then I'm going to be,

fuck.

So he gets arrested, obviously.

They call the cops

and he

pleads not guilty to these charges because of mental disease is what he says.

Well, this is a problem.

Yes.

May of 1976, this is court for the December rape.

He's found not guilty.

Whoa.

This is the mid-70s where, yeah, they'd get a girl on the stand and be like, you know, how many guys have you slept with what were you wearing that kind of shit so he's acquitted june of 1976 finally his probation's revoked oh good finally holy shit i mean what does it take how many teenagers have to run screaming from your car before they

revoke your probation

So August of 76, he's in court for the February attack on the two young girls there.

He is acquitted of rape.

Again, God damn it.

Two witnesses.

Two.

What the fuck?

But he's convicted on two counts of coercion.

Yeah, what is that?

Which essentially means he making somebody do something they didn't want to do.

He convinced underage girls to fuck him is what that means, which is way different than rape.

Yeah.

And

wow, I mean, in the court, in the court back then in the law, the prosecutor referred to Dayton as, quote, a murder case looking for a place to happen.

Please put this guy away.

And they went, nah, he's okay.

He's good.

He is sentenced to, you, sir, may fuck off five years in prison, they give him for this.

That's terrific.

We'll keep an eye on him for two and a half years.

That's about right.

Well, August, that's August of 76.

March of 78, he's paroled.

A year and a half.

That's, yeah, not even two years.

Yeah, he's paroled.

But he almost immediately violates his parole and is returned to prison after that.

He is held until January of 1982 when he has a parole hearing.

That's his first hearing.

During this, and this is one of those where the parole, basically his sentence will be up next year.

So a lot of times they will parole somebody, even if they're not a good candidate for it.

In case they fuck up, they can then put them back in prison for violating and then extend their sentence and all that kind of shit.

You can tell that's what they're doing because he doesn't do a very good job in this parole interview.

No.

This is during the parole interview.

One of the parole people asks him: if you could do things differently, what would you change?

What would you do?

Look.

What's the answer to that question if you're trying to get out of prison, Jimmy?

I would have never done that in the first place.

Nope.

I would have gotten help for my problems.

I wouldn't have involved others.

I wouldn't have hurt anybody.

His answer is: quote, next time I won't leave a witness.

Next time.

Next time I won't leave a witness.

So I'm going to do it again and I'll make sure they're dead.

Jesus.

And they said, well, parole granted, sir.

There you are.

You can do it, boy.

Boy, do we believe in you?

In John.

What the fuck?

Holy shit.

And she writes in her report that, quote, he appears well adjusted.

He's making jokes and shit, you guys.

He's super comfortable.

Holy shit, that's crazy.

He had some stitches.

A little dark on the humor, but very funny.

I mean, you know, I kind of like that, though.

I'm into that.

You know what I mean?

I like Carlin's darker stuff saying back then.

It's fine.

See, you know, like

when Pryor talks about setting himself on fire, that's the good stuff.

You know what I'm saying?

The guy told the parole board, next time I won't leave a witness.

Real Jeselnick material.

Yeah, yeah.

He's real edgy.

That's what it is.

People don't get his edge sometimes.

See, that's the problem.

They just don't get his edge.

That's fucking believable.

So,

yeah, he's paroled, and a year later, his parole supervision is terminated.

His sentence is up.

So that's that.

Yeah.

He's a free man.

Yeah.

He becomes, he somehow figures out, he never had any experience that I found of working with engines of any kind.

No.

He's been painting.

He's been doing stuff like that.

He's a mechanic.

Now he's a mechanic.

I guess maybe in prison he might have learned the trade.

Yeah.

I mean, that's possible.

He's

a small engine mechanic.

Okay, that's

lawnmower.

Yeah, not a car.

Yeah.

Basically, he's Slingblade now.

Remember the Slingblade got out?

Where did he go?

Right.

It's very good.

To repair lawnmowers and fucking sleep in a goddamn, yeah.

He talks like this, and he can repair a lawnmower just good as anybody.

So, you know.

Single piston, you spray some carb cleaner in it, it's ready to go.

It's all good now.

There it is.

That's right.

Going over to Bill Cox's outfit.

That's right.

Fuck, I love that movie.

That's a goddamn great movie.

So

he's a small engine mechanic now, and he opens up a repair shop in Woodburn, Oregon in the 80s.

So now he's a business owner.

Yeah.

And he appears by all

outside standards, he appears to be...

keeping it all together.

He's got it between the lines.

He's not a raging alcoholic.

He's not raping anyone.

He's not beating his wife.

He's opening a business.

He's operating it.

It's

paying taxes.

He's like

doing all the things you're supposed to do when you get paroled.

He's doing everything.

He's been rolling down the road.

Oh, yeah.

By 86, 87, he's still married to Sherry.

By the way, he's been married for 12 years now.

That's very stable.

I mean, he did spend half of that time in prison, but still, it's stable.

For our show, it's stable.

But then he and Sherry have a son in early 1986.

Uh-huh.

God damn it.

That's scary that they have a son.

That's one of those, when this guy has a kid, you go, let's just hope it's a daughter and it turns out to be a stripper or something, not a murderer.

Let's hope she dances and not kills because there's a boy, I'm worried he's going to kill 30 people.

At least he's not going to rape this child, right?

Let's hope not.

So he's married to Sherry.

They're both, they're very religious.

They go to church.

They, you know, he is like a mainstay in the community.

You know, you got your, if your weed whacker's broken, he'll fix it.

You can talk to him about it at church on Sunday because he'll sure be there.

There you go.

They have a son.

They live in a nice house in Camby, like a little nice, not a big house, but a modest house.

His business is pretty successful,

doing well.

He fixes lawn mowers and chainsaws and shit.

He even had to hire help because his business was so good he couldn't handle it all in his life.

Wow, he's doing great.

He is described by neighbors as reliable and polite.

What happened?

He was rehabilitated.

That's what it looks like.

One person called him, quote, the kind of guy you trust with your equipment.

Meaning, drop off your chainsaw to him.

You trust him with it.

The weird thing is, the only crack in this armor is he works late an awful lot.

All right.

Well, yeah, he had to hire extra people.

He's got to be out there late at night.

You own your own business.

Yeah.

You got to put whatever hours in you need.

Yeah.

There's a lot of people.

Yeah.

I work a lot more than I'd like to right now because this is our business.

You know what I mean?

You got to do what you got to do.

So he works late and also he's put it like she'll even notice that he puts a lot of miles on his truck.

You're just going to the repair shop down the street and back.

What happens?

So what is up with that?

And he said, I'm working late.

That's why.

Yeah.

Just working late.

And she believed him.

Then she heard rumors from her friends that, uh-oh, you know, that she, that he's in bars at night.

Oh, I saw your husband out at the bar.

Yeah.

Oh, really?

Thursday?

I thought he was working late on Thursday.

Okay.

So Sherry's getting all of that.

But she said, you know, maybe he needs to blow off steam.

He's a guy.

I don't know how they think.

And he works all day.

And maybe he has stress and he blows off, has a couple of drinks before he comes home.

Maybe that's why he's so nice.

Because he's

interesting.

Unwound.

Yeah.

To be working really hard and then go sit on the end of a bar stool for 34 hours and suck.

There are so many guys that do that.

That is a life.

I mean, Jesus.

I know construction guys that that's what they do

every day.

They've been telling the same stories for 20 years.

Same shit over and over again.

You can go to the restaurant by my house that we go to.

Yeah.

The bar in there packed every goddamn night.

Tons of those guys that are just

putting them back, man.

Just driving drunk.

And then weaving their way home at fucking one o'clock in the morning or midnight or whatever the fuck.

It's a crazy wild style life that I can't, I can't get into that shit.

I can't wrap my head around like the idea of the danger involved in getting home.

It's insane.

Yeah.

So summer of 1987, his headaches are starting to get really bad now.

Oh no.

His head is just, he can't take it anymore.

Pounding.

Pounding.

Yeah.

So he called it like blinding pain.

Oh.

Migraine.

Actual migraines, yeah.

Horrifying.

He did say that he found some things that will help it go away.

And that is going going out at night and having sex with strange women.

That makes his head feel better.

Strange pussy sometimes does it can cure anything.

It just sets you right.

Apparently for this guy, yeah.

Crazy.

It's a cure.

So like by like 8.30 p.m., he'd have dinner with the family.

And then by 9, he was going back to the shop to work more.

Really?

Yep.

By midnight, he's changing into different clothes that he kept in a special closet at his shop.

Yeah.

He'd change into his out-going out clothes.

Yeah.

And by 12.30 a.m., he'd be heading off to Portland

to party.

That's how it went.

To party, and he'd be out all night, half the time.

All night.

He'd be like, man, you have no idea how broken these people's lawnmowers are.

They are just.

There is not a blade of grass that can be cut in this county unless I get my shit together, boy.

It's bad.

How many bars stay open that late in Portland?

I guess enough for him.

Well, he'd go to bars, but then there was also another scene he was looking for, and that was the ladies after the bars.

The red light district.

The ones he could pay for, exactly.

So, this is what Steve the Gambler is into.

That's what he tells all these ladies his name is, by the way.

Steve the Gambler, he's from Nevada.

That's what he tells them all, which is the only place that I can think of that he hasn't lived, actually, is Nevada.

But that's what he tells them.

But if we're cowboys from Arizona, but we can't, Pinocchio.

Yeah.

So they,

the ladies that he hooks up with all notice the same thing that he's into.

He wants to tie their hands and feet tightly behind them,

which if I'm doing that, there's no fucking way anybody's tying me up.

No.

Not happening.

No.

Not happening.

You're not restraining me.

Nope.

I'm going to have a blade on me and I'm going to have my hand.

I can only do sexual acts with one hand because my other hand's on my fucking blade ready to chop your balls off.

I don't know how else you would go about that profession I don't I don't know he would also enjoy threatening to cut their their breasts feet and buttocks with a knife too he would tell them he wanted to do that and he was gonna he was gonna cut them and he was gonna do all this shit and then they would get scared and then he would get off on that that's what he likes when you put your penis in my mouth i'm going to bite it very

exciting i'm going to take it i'm i'm be honest but this is the he this they know that this is what he does to get off is he has to threaten them Okay.

Which is real fucking weird.

He also likes biting and pinching breasts, feet, and buttocks as well.

He enjoys basically inflicting pain on them until they stop resisting.

They all say if they fight, that's when he's into it.

If they stop and just go limp, he completely stops.

He's done.

He just doesn't like it.

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Loses all interest in what's happening if you go limp and stop.

Doesn't care.

Wow.

He always did that.

Later on, 30 different women will come forward.

Really?

30, 3-0

with saying they've been with Steve the Gambler, and they all have stories, and they're all very similar.

He'd find them out on the street.

He'd find them on Union Avenue

usually.

They said he always had miniature vodka bottles, little plain bottles.

Yeah.

A little shots.

Always had those, and he always had plastic containers of orange juice.

Orange juice that comes with it.

Road screwdrivers.

Yep.

They said he would mix them while driving.

He'd dump the vodka, take a sip of the juice, dump the vodka in, shake it up, and then he would have that to drink.

Yeah, basically.

Okay.

Now,

so that's that.

He'd pick them up, and now he's having a cocktail on the way out to wherever they're going.

He would start with foot massages, not for him, for them.

Okay.

Obsessed with feet.

Rubbing them.

Completely upset.

Especially, they all said high arches.

That's what he was into.

He likes the high arches.

That is so.

How do you get that specific about feet?

I like feet.

I don't like just feet.

I like big toes.

I like a high arch.

Yeah.

I like if the third toe, not the second, the third toe is a little longer than the second.

That's what turns me on now.

That's not kicking or anything else.

Is when that pinky toe doesn't even have a nail.

It's just sitting off on the end, kind of hanging underneath it.

That's sexy, boy.

I tell you what.

It's like a skin tag over there.

That's what he's into.

I don't get it.

Like, I can't even, like, I've never got that specific about boobs.

And boobs are great.

I've never been like, well, I'd only like it if the bipple is placed right.

Like, they're all great.

Who cares?

Specificity in

feet.

To be that.

I don't get what I don't get it.

He would pay them, and this is in the 80s, mind you, $50.

Wow.

Which I remember the Hookers at the Point documentary.

Yeah.

That's what they're called, by the way.

From the HBO in the late 90s.

We're talking 96, 97.

These girls would do $40 for a half and a half, which is a blowjob and sex for $40.

Doubling up.

This is he would pay them $50 just to rub their feet while he masturbated.

Which...

Okay.

Why?

I don't get it.

I just don't get it.

It's not, I guess it's not.

$50.

My shit isn't whatever.

They're not quite twisted in that way.

Other ways, yes, but not that particular way.

So then that's what he would do.

This is, that's what he's doing at night when Sherry doesn't know what he's up to.

And she's going, oh, my man is such a hard worker.

He's working something hard.

Here's a story from July 7th, 1987.

Heather Brown, she's 31 years old.

She had worked the night before and needed some cigarettes.

And a man in a blue Nissan pickup offered her a ride to the store.

He drove her to the Malala Forest instead.

Is that how you pronounce that?

Malala?

Probably.

I believe.

M-O-L-A-L-L-A.

Malala.

That sounds right.

He said that he wanted to, quote, tie someone up and fuck them.

That was his quote.

Yeah.

She tried to get out of the car.

That ain't me.

He gunned it.

Oh, boy.

Started going 60 miles an hour on a logging road.

Scary.

She jumped from the moving truck anyway.

Wow.

That's how scary he is.

She does not want to be tied up.

Yep.

She said, I know this will hurt, but this guy's going to be way worse than jumping from a 60-mile an hour moving vehicle.

She ends up with a concussion and multiple abrasions, this young woman.

So that's...

crazy, first of all.

So there's that.

Then we come to August 7th, 1987, where we started.

Let's find out how this all occurred here.

Jennifer Lisa Smith is the woman that was being bleeding out in the parking lot.

She's a 25-year-old young lady.

She has an aka of Gypsy Rosalind Costello,

which is much different than Jennifer Lisa Smith.

Sure is.

Now, she works the street in Portland.

Yeah.

And that's kind of, she's not,

she has odd jobs sometimes and then does this sometimes too, does a little bit of you know prostitution on the society.

Yeah.

She's a mother of two and she's trying to make ends meet, essentially.

So she does whatever she has to find.

Financial instability will cost you everything.

Yep.

So she said she knew the man who picked her up in a blue Nissan pickup.

His name, he called himself Steve the Gambler from Nevada.

She said sometimes he said he was from Vegas, sometimes he said Reno, but it didn't matter.

She'd been with him twice before.

Oh.

She said two months earlier there was the Rose Festival, and during the festival, she was with him twice there.

She said he paid well, too.

He paid $80 instead of $40.

He paid double the rate.

She said he was weird.

And this is the thing.

If you watch Deadwood when they're in the

gym and they're talking about, quote, specialists,

the guy who just wants to drink titler.

The titlicker who runs by and like,

they said specialists are the best because they just want to do one weird thing and they usually pay more than everybody else and they don't want anybody to know

yeah and that's what she was looking this at this as is he was into the feet and shit like that and she thought that was weird but he never hurt her or did anything she just had to have her feet out and she got extra money she didn't give a fuck she's like great she said some like little bit of rough stuff but nothing that was outside of the bounds of what she could deal with or what she was willing to do for the money.

So this particular night, her friend Jackie watched her get into the pickup on the northeast corner of Union and Wigant.

Wigent.

Jackie was, her friend was sleeping in her Honda waiting for some scheduled dates she had.

So she had a car and everything.

She later says also

to police that Jennifer waved goodbye and smiled.

She knows this guy.

Yeah.

It was about 1.15 a.m.

He picks her up.

And then he drove with her to a 7-Eleven store.

I think that's, they got stopped for cigarettes and stuff like that.

Then to the parking lot of a Denny's on McLaughlin Boulevard in Clackamas County.

Now, we don't know what happened during the drive from 7-Eleven to the Denny's parking lot.

Wow, a lot.

We have no idea.

Yeah.

A lot.

Now, Dayton claims later that they had consensual bondage sex for money.

That's what he says.

He said that she let him, Jennifer let him tie her up so that he could massage her feet and masturbate.

Wow.

Just let me tie you up so I can rub your feet and masturbate.

Jesus Christ.

How fucking the problem?

What's the problem, honey?

I don't get it.

Like, what the fuck?

Okay.

So he said that she was tied up so that she was on her knees facing the back of the seat with her hands and feet tied behind her against the dashboard.

Everybody get that?

Wow.

Backwards in the front seat.

Yeah.

So that's what he says.

We know it's a little bit different, though, because by 3 a.m., they were in a dark corner of the Denny's parking lot, hidden away between a small office building and a row of hedges.

Because I would assume if you take her to an abandoned parking lot, she might get scared.

But if you go to a Denny's parking lot, it's enough people where she could find someone if she's scared, but not enough to where they're going to see you doing what you're doing type of deal.

So 3.02 a.m.

Michael Fielding lives in a townhouse apartment on Vineyard Lane directly behind the Denny's.

He works early in the morning, so he tries to get asleep here.

His bedroom window overlooks the Denny's parking lot.

This Michael Fielding, he's in bed and he shoots out of bed out of a sound that he thought was cats fighting.

Yeah.

He said it was weird.

They almost sound human.

You know, these cats, really, cats nowadays, more human than ever.

But then he started hearing things that you'd never hear a cat say, like, help me.

Please help me.

Rape, I'm being raped.

Oh, my God.

If you hear a cat saying that, you know, get that thing to the vet because it's not.

Call Sarah McLaughlin.

She's going to be furious.

She's going to really be upset.

So, Jesus.

So she,

they said it was muffled initially, like someone yelling through a window.

So he got up.

By the way, his window is closed.

so maybe that's why.

Yelling through the window, yeah.

You know, he said he's half asleep.

He stumbled to his window trying to process what's going on here.

As he got to the

window, he said the screams were louder now, no longer muffled.

He said it was like someone had opened a door.

Suddenly, the screams were everywhere.

At first, I thought it was muffled, like someone yelling inside a car.

Then it got louder.

She was screaming, help me, please help me, rape.

So

he is watching this from his window, which is horrifying because you're on like a second floor.

You can't really do much about this other than go, hey, stop.

Like, what else can you say?

Throw something at the guy?

I mean,

so he doesn't know what to do.

He sees a man under a streetlight walking away from the situation, carrying something.

You can't see what.

And that's when Charles Gates, with his wheelchair,

takes a detour from his hot chocolate to run over, to roll over there and

try to tend to Jennifer here.

And he is.

Now, that's when the bystanders tried to pin him in, and they chase him for 100 miles an hour.

They get his license plate, and they're looking for him now.

Wow.

Now, back to the Denny's parking lot scene.

Paramedics arrive, and they work on Jennifer for 20 minutes, but she's loaded into the ambulance and rushed to the hospital where she is pronounced dead at 3.47 a.m., despite the best efforts.

I mean, her throat's been cut and she's been stabbed a lot.

11 stab wounds.

Eight to the front of her body, three to the back of her body, and her throat had been slashed so deeply that it almost completely severed her trachea.

Good lord.

Horrifying, fucking terrifyingly brutal attack.

Both hands showed defensive wounds where she tried to grab the knife blade.

Brutal.

Now, near the parking lot of Denny's, the police find a knife covered in blood.

Yeah.

Pretty good find there.

5.35 a.m.

is when they run the license plate and find it is registered to Dayton Leroy Rogers with an address in Canby.

So they go, well, we know where we're going at 6 o'clock in the morning and it's fucking Canby.

So they go knock on his door and Sherry answers the door.

Yeah.

Hi, guys.

And

they said, ma'am, we're looking for Dayton Rodgers.

And he said, oh, he's at his shop.

He works odd hours sometimes.

Is everything okay?

No, ma'am.

And the cop said at that point, they could see she had no fucking idea who her husband was.

You could tell she was just like, oh, what can I do to help you?

Like, just innocent as shit.

They said the concern in her eyes was real, like she was worried something happened to him.

Right.

So they were like, this is, this is crazy.

They say, where's his shop, ma'am?

She says, Woodburn, 11,600 block of Pacific Court, DNS small engine repair.

And they say, and then she said, is Dayton in some kind of trouble?

So they go to the shop and he's there.

Is he?

Oh, he's there.

He reeks of booze.

His eyes are like cherry tomatoes.

Sure.

And his whole right hand is bandaged and bloody.

And they said,

what have you been up to tonight?

And he said, quote, been here all night.

Been working on the night.

Obviously.

Yeah, you know how it goes.

So they go, really?

And

this is just clever, not even police work.

This is something like a decent, like a parent with a decent set of

investigatory skills could manage.

Cop goes over and touches his truck hood.

The hood, yeah.

Exactly warm.

Hot to the touch.

Yeah, hot.

And he said, been here all night, huh?

Yeah.

That's funny.

Your truck hasn't.

It must have just got here, buddy.

How's that worked?

So he said, oh, I mean, I was here all night.

I went out for coffee a little while ago.

I just got back.

I went out for coffee.

He said, you know, I don't know what you're talking about, but, you know, I was out for coffee.

That's why it's hot.

But

I'm here all night.

I need coffee.

And they go, they sniff and they go, it smells like coffee in here.

And they look over and there's a coffee maker with coffee being made right now, just percolating.

Why is that Mr.

Coffee going, man?

So they're like, huh, that doesn't seem right.

And where's this coffee you bought?

You don't have another coffee.

You're making coffee, but you just got coffee.

All right.

And they said,

what happened to your bandaged hand there, Chief?

What's up with that?

He said, oh, I cut it with a hacksaw tonight.

Yeah.

You know how you do.

You know, I did that.

The bullshit was out of control.

That's wild.

Now, later on, when he goes to the doctor for this, by the way, the ER doctor will say that the wounds are smooth and clean, knife wounds, not a hacksaw.

Nothing with teeth, basically.

Yeah, nothing serrated.

So they go, hmm, hot engine, car connected to this, bloody right hand.

You're under arrest, dipshit.

Absolutely.

You're coming with us, for sure.

So then they search his truck now that they've arrested him.

And there's fucking blood everywhere in here.

Uh-oh.

Blood all over the place.

There is knife cuts on the dashboard.

What?

When he's struggling.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It goes into the dashboard.

There's knife cuts on the ceiling, on the passenger door.

Oh, Jesus.

It's crazy.

They also find Jennifer Smith's fingerprint on the outside passenger door handle.

So he can't say, I don't know who you're talking about.

Someone stole whatever.

So they also find knotted shoelaces in his truck,

one of Jennifer Smith's tennis shoes, and most of the Smith's clothing

near where he had parked his truck.

This was like in a pile over in the corner of the

outside.

They also got evidence from his shop and truck, but

the real crazy shit happened when they take him to jail.

It's August.

It's still, well, we'll talk about this, then that.

Okay.

Now,

here's what he did.

After the murder, he drove to his business, the small engine shop, blood all over the passenger side of his truck.

He tried to wash it out with a shop rag and a sponge.

Really?

That much blood from cutting a woman's throat and stabbing her 11 times.

I got a

sponge.

He burned his blood-soaked clothing and a tennis shoe, one of the sneakers, and some clothing that belonged to Jennifer Smith in the wood shop, in the wood stove in the shop.

So he burns up all that there.

When the police arrived, his truck was parked in front and was still warm, and the cops saw blood on the front of the shop door.

So when he opened the door, he wasn't even cleaned off.

So they said strong odor of alcohol, and he told the detective that he, quote, had bought some miniatures at the liquor store.

That's why he smelled of alcohol.

What he had purchased was a 10-pack of vodka miniatures.

Dang.

Yes, interesting.

So, and we'll find out how they connect by brand later on as well.

Now, Jennifer Smith, her injuries, she bled to death from stab wounds from her chest.

She also had stab wounds in her abdomen, her breasts, and nipples.

Oh,

this is targeted.

Yeah.

Very specific.

A complex V-shaped stab wound on her back as well, somehow.

The stab wounds were consistent with the knife that was found

behind a nearby building after he ran away.

She had numerous defensive wounds to her hands, arms, and wrists, and showed recent bruises that could have been caused by the knotted shoelaces that he used to bind her.

Now, he gets to jail.

Okay.

Now, if you're this guy, you're in jail.

You're in jail.

You would shut the fuck up.

Number one.

A, shut the fuck up.

Or B, tell him everything you've ever done.

One of the two.

This asshole calls.

Wow.

He calls his father-in-law, who remember, he loves his father-in-law, Sherry's father.

Great guy.

Loves the guy, calls him up, and he calls him dad, by the way.

Yeah.

And he says, from jail, quote, because the cops had come search the house.

Yeah.

And he said, Dad, did they look in the wood stove?

Oh, boy.

That's a scary thing.

So the father-in-law used a magnet in the ashes to see if anything would come up.

They end up finding bra clasps from 15 different bras.

Oh, shit.

A metal, metal shoe parts matching Jennifer's missing shoe, colored glass and rhinestones that would be in like, you know,

and like costume jewelry, that kind of shit.

And star-shaped grommets.

Okay.

Little things that would

sicken.

Levi jeans or something.

Something like that.

Yeah.

A gene brand, that kind of thing.

Okay.

So that's what they find in there.

And they're like, whoa.

This is a lot.

This is a lot.

She doesn't wear, she doesn't have 15 titties.

I was just going to say, she's not wearing 15 bras.

She'd have to have 30 tits for that.

Right.

30 tits she'd need.

The 30-titted woman.

She doesn't have that many.

No.

She could charge much extra for that if she had 30 tits.

So, wow.

Now, August 31st, 1987.

It's been four weeks almost, three and a half weeks sitting in jail.

Okay, just hanging out.

While he's doing that, out in the Malala Forest there, there's a guy named Evan Barniard or Banyard.

I'm sorry.

Banyard.

Everett Banyard.

He's a bow hunter, and he's been hunting around these areas for decades.

Years, yeah.

Years and years.

He knew all the trails, all the clearings, everything.

There is a 90-acre private timberland, and that's where he goes, or 90,000-acre private timberland.

Wow.

That's where he goes.

Yeah, that's where he goes.

He hunts there.

He's been scouting for the upcoming season, looking for signs of deer movement, checking mineral licks.

You know, what you do, checking all the deer activity.

Let's see if they've been licking this.

Yeah.

So this is a very secluded, mountainous, out-of-the-way area.

It's, you don't find this unless you're real local and come here all the time.

Yeah,

it's not

effortless.

It takes some effort to get there, basically.

But this guy knew where he was going because he'd been there for decades.

So that's what he's doing.

He turns right off Highway 211 at the Matthias intersection, drove about a quarter mile to Friar Park Road, turn left.

This is for your locals out there, until Fryer Park intersected with South Dickey Prairie Road.

South Dickey Prairie Road.

There, Banyard turned right onto Dickey Prairie Road and continued in a southeasterly direction.

This is going somewhere, I promise.

Crossed over the Glen Avon Bridge over the Malala River and made a right turn that put him onto the Malala Forest Road, which follows the winding course of the river and takes you past a bunch of recreation areas where there's swimmers and fishermen and hikers and all these type of people here.

After about 500 yards, there's a fork in the road where you can go left or right.

Now, the right portion was a gravel road and was blocked off at a fence up.

So he goes to the left side and continues for about three miles

all the way through here until he reached Malala Forest,

okay.

which is an old logging road that takes you deeper into the mountain and forest and everything here.

He continued along this gravel-covered, steep road going west past a flat portion or a plateau surrounded by a bunch of desern and brushes and douglas fir trees yeah then there's another gravel road that begins a steep ascent for approximately a quarter mile at which point it swings to the left and continues around the mountain southwardly going further what i'm saying is remote this is as remote as it gets and if you didn't know where you're going you would be lost in two fucking minutes and you'd never be found you're taking

a Sasquatch bride.

That's it.

Yep, that's it.

You'd be blowing a Sasquatch by the end of the night because that's all that's out there for you.

So he ends up there

going that way.

And

the point where the

Malala Forest 75, that road, swings down to the south, there's another road, a small dirt and partially graveled logging spur road that wound around to the north.

He took that road, which he followed for about 200 feet until he came to yet another fork in the road.

One part of the road continued straight at that point, but it wasn't accessible by vehicle because it was blocked by fallen trees.

The other part of the road continued up a steep grade in a northwesterly direction for 300 yards where it dead-ended at another landing or flat area.

He turned his pickup around there and just before the Y in the road and used the extra turnaround space to park.

So, this is what he's doing.

He went, this is some serious shit to go scouting.

So, a lot of this area, this is where the local hunters go.

They know this area.

This is what you got to do to get a deer.

I don't want anything to do with it.

Too much, too much.

By the time I'm out there, I'm like, that was beautiful.

So, let's go home now.

Let's leave it.

That was a great drive.

You're out here.

Goodbye.

That was a great drive.

Where are we going now?

Like, what are we going to sit here for fucking five hours now?

So, the area has a lot of spent shell casings from people shooting and stuff like that.

A lot of trash and debris.

They said that you can tell it's used by everybody-from hunters to teenagers out here having keg parties and shit like that.

And people just dumping their trash.

So he said, This is a good place to be to hunt, though.

He goes here all the time.

So he's got a crossbow and his arrows, and he climbs out of his pickup and looks around.

And he's looking for deer and looking for hoof marks and droppings and shit like that.

He spots a fern that had been smashed down.

And farther toward the forest, he saw what looked like a fresh patch that might have been a deer crossing.

So he's like, I better go investigate that.

So he's like, this is where the deer are.

So he gets his crossbow and he walks down.

After a few yards, he smells something terrible.

Now, this guy works at a fertilizer plant.

Yeah.

And he said, this is terrible.

Number one, two,

that, and he, a lot of times he has a bad smell in his nose that won't go away type of thing.

So he's a kid.

So he doesn't know if it's that or him or what it is.

So

he just kept walking.

And he kept walking.

Soon, though, he said, man, this is not a deer crossing.

A person did this.

Maybe some teenagers who came to drink beer or some bullshit like that.

So there is a small clearing off to the right, only a few yards before the forest slopes downward into a huge, steep decline that eventually ends up in a cliff.

Yeah.

So we're up in the mountains here.

Now, from this vantage point, he said it looked like there was something lying beneath these ferns here that he could see.

And he said he couldn't see what it was.

He couldn't make it out.

So he approaches the ferns and the odor is getting worse and worse and worse.

He now believed that someone probably poached a deer and gutted it out here and left the guts under some ferns so nobody would see because it's illegal.

But he uses the,

Jesus, he takes his toe of his boot and pushes the dried ferns away.

And he sees an exposed buttocks, thigh, and calf of a human body.

God damn it.

So he freaks out, runs back to where he came from, jumped in his truck and went home.

He called the sheriff's department and reported what he saw.

Yeah.

Gonna give them those directions?

Best of luck, boys.

That's the problem is he then has to go out there.

Yeah.

He has to take the cop out there because they're like, I don't know where the fuck you're talking about exactly.

So there's no advice.

It's a free road, you guys.

You know.

Jesus.

So they took, now it's dark out too.

So now there's him and some cop going deep into the woods in the dark.

There were flashlights with flashlights.

And they started to smell it.

They shine the light in the area.

And the cop said, yep, that looks like a dead person.

You got that.

So he went back to his car, reported it into the detectives and everything like that.

So they said that

we all have to meet.

They can't just give him a location.

So he said, okay, we'll all meet at a market off Highway 211 and then

we'll all take a fucking caravan up here.

So that's what they do.

So this one detective arrives on September 1st and they're looking for body.

They're looking for this body and how to get the rest of it.

So,

okay,

the county medical examiner who had been at the site the previous night said that because they took him out just to make sure and he comes back to process everything.

They say he says the body is almost mummified and appeared leathery and shiny.

He didn't couldn't tell the gender of the corpse, but said it was definitely nude.

The body was in a prone position with dead leaves and debris around.

He said that a hand was visible, but it was unusually positioned as if the body had been tossed into the ferns.

The body was visible from the waist down, nude, and there was no clothing in any proximity to it.

The upper torso pointed to the southeast, legs pointed to the northwest.

So that way.

The left leg was lying under the right leg and was straight.

The right leg was bent with the ankle lying on top of the left leg near the left ankle area.

There was a white plastic bottle lying next to the left leg, its spout facing the ankle.

There was also a rusty can nearby.

So they start taking pictures and everything like that.

The fact that the body is nude and hidden under some fucking foliage tells them that this is definitely a murder probably, even if they can't see wounds.

So at 10.22 a.m., they finished their photography here, and the medical examiner entered the scene and started removing brush from the body.

Now they've got all the pictures.

Now they actually have to

extricate this person from the ground.

So he pulls ferns off the upper torso and head areas and exposes the body.

The left arm was extended straight out from the shoulder in a direct parallel line with the body, and the right arm crossed under the torso with the right hand lying down between the legs.

Ooh, kind of like if you were sleeping and you put your hand between your legs instead of a pillow.

There was also significant maggot activity in the groin area, and it was obvious that a large amount of liquid had oozed into the underlying brush and soil.

Putrefication.

So the skull bone was exposed where the scalp and curly light brown, almost blonde hair had slipped back during decomposition.

So it was like sloughing off the head.

It was noted that her left foot was missing.

Oh.

Gone.

Severed just above the ankle and not in the immediate area.

Okay.

They didn't know whether the missing foot was animals or a perpetrator, but later on they'll see that it was not chewed off.

It was cut off.

So

three minutes later, they're pulling ferns and brush from the area around the body.

And when they're doing that, they discover another body.

What?

Another body very nearby.

A second body.

They're like, holy shit.

Graveyard.

This is a graveyard.

Yeah.

Is what this says.

They find this body in a fetal position on its right side facing northeast, left arm extended, hand open, fingers extending straight out.

Both feet were missing.

Oh, my.

Both feet were missing, sawed off at the ankle level.

So now they're like, okay, these missing feet are not animals.

We got two women and one foot.

So

this is a fucking problem.

And they said, this body is also nude and decomposed.

So they finished taking the photographs here.

And they start from the road's edge and began seizing evidence as they walk toward the bodies.

Anything on the ground they're grabbing, just in case.

They're trying to make a clear area around the bodies that they can work and not step on crime scene shit, basically.

No contamination or anything like that.

As they work, they also collect samples, soil samples, dead ferns that covered the bodies, the white plastic bottle, the rusted can, a piece of fiber cord that's red in color.

They found a glass bottle near the head of the first body.

They found an empty Bud Light beer can near that victim's left hand, and a small clear liquor bottle in the stand of ferns that overlooked the bodies.

Okay.

At 12:30, while they're collecting all this, one of the cops calls out to the other one, quote, Hey, Mike, you better get over here.

I just found another one.

God damn it.

They said, He said, another what?

Yeah.

And he said, another body.

Like, holy shit, we thought you meant another piece of evidence or something.

The third body is about 15 feet north of the first two.

It's resting resting against a tree in a supine position, and the left arm is extended vertically, like the others, also nude.

The odor is extremely strong here as well.

Now, the one officer, the detective, observes a gaping cut or incision that extended from the area of the groin up toward the sternum.

cut open, gutted like a fish.

So he could see the vertebral column and the left iliac or iliac bone through the opening.

He saw maggots moving about concentrated and on

and near the right side of the head.

So he's like, this is fucking crazy.

At this point, the lead detective says, everybody out of the forest now.

We have no fucking idea when we're stepping on a crime scene.

Stop finding bodies.

Stop it.

No, everybody out because, yeah, you're walking around.

You're going to trip over one and ruin this crime scene.

So they're like, holy shit, everybody stop.

And also decided that additional personnel would be needed and they need to set up a command post and a grid system and all this type of shit.

So they do.

At 5 p.m., the canine arrives, the canine unit, tracking dog, a German shepherd named Cult.

So Cult and this detective began searching the vicinity of the bodies.

15 minutes later, Cult found number four.

Yeah.

Another.

It was 40 feet north of body number three,

resting in the same position, deep within the brush and blackberry vines, partially covered by a mound of dried dirt.

The pelvis and lower vertebral columns was tilted somewhat vertically toward the left,

exposing a portion of the rib cage.

No clothes on or near the remains like everybody else.

Oh, my God.

Now, this corpse, unlike the others, though, this one is mostly skeletonized.

So these are all in different states of decomposition.

Yeah.

So this is, they think that's been there the longest.

The skull was almost completely devoid of flesh, except for a small amount of leathery, dried, and desiccated tissue in the left temporal region.

Wow.

Long, unattached, reddish-brown hair remained around the skull, and there was a small band of leathery skin that passed around the lower lumbar vertebral region and similarly around the left femur.

The body was so decomposed that they couldn't even smell anything.

Wow.

That's how decomposed.

That's insane.

At 6.35 p.m., a reserve officer assisting with the search and seizure of everything calls out to the group, hey, everybody.

No, shut up.

I found another one.

Yes, of course you did.

I found more.

God damn it.

It was located 50 yards west of body number four.

That's a good distance.

Half a football field in a small triangular open area in the woods, separated from the other bodies by the road.

So this is on the other side of the road.

Is it long?

Been there the longest?

Well, this one was nude as well.

No, it was actively decomposing and partially mummified.

So, no, it's one of the newer ones.

In a prone position,

its head facing downward into a large growth of fern.

The right side of the skull was skeletonized, but not to the extent that the last body was, number four.

So maybe it looks like it's the second one that was put here compared to those two.

I mean, there could be a hundred more.

They said that the hands were bound behind the back with a dark green, one-inch-wide belt that may have been a dog collar.

And there were several circular and irregularly shaped defects in the lower back and right buttocks.

And the right foot had been sawed off.

Damn it.

Okay, now.

The immediate thing everybody thinks is, holy shit, the Green River killer has come down here.

Yeah.

He's gotten a new thing that he's doing.

And he's into something different.

That's the only reason why they don't think it's the Green River Killer after a while is because of the missing feet.

Otherwise, they're convinced this is the Green River Killer.

Because if you look, we just did Patreons on this, whereas Ted Bundy was trying to help them find the

Green River killer.

He had, and Ted Bundy did the same thing.

That's why they went to Bundy, or that's why Bundy, when he offered help, they went to him because they had the same thing they did.

They killed these women and they had burial sites where they buried many of them.

They'd put a bunch there, then go to another site.

When they thought that site was compromised or something, they'd go somewhere else.

There's too many.

So with Green River, we know of a bunch of his sites and Ted Bundy, too.

There are so many we don't know about.

Yeah.

Ted Bundy, there could have been 30 more sites on

many girls.

And Green River, too.

We have no idea how many people he killed.

So,

and

when they find out who the girls were and what their profession was and things like that, some of them, or at least what they were out doing, they think, holy shit, it's the fucking Green River killer just came to Portland.

Got too hot in Seattle and he came to Portland.

This makes all the sense in the world.

So they said there was considerable at 7:20 p.m., they called off the first day of search.

Considerable talk among investigators and everyone in the entire area that, holy shit, the Green River killer's here now.

Man, because also in 1985, Oregon authorities in Washington County found the remains of four young women near the Portland suburb of Tallatin, two of which were identified as Denise Darcell Bush, 23, and Shirley Marie Sherrill, 18, both Seattle-area girls who were doing prostitution at the time and whose deaths were attributed to the Green River killer.

They said

those are probably those, that might be this guy.

Wow.

We just gave that to him, but because we didn't know anybody else that was doing this, but maybe not.

They said the, it's very interesting.

They said that because the Malala forest bodies had been cluster dumped in an outdoor location like the Green River killer, they said that, you know,

they notified the Green River Task Force in Seattle to see if maybe, and they talked to Dave Rikert.

Remember, we talked a lot about Dave Rikert, Detective Rikert, and provided an opportunity for the Green River Task Force to send a representative to Oregon so they could watch this.

So there is literally a Green River Task Force member at this site the next day.

Wow.

Now, that day they found five bodies in various stages of decomposition, all nude, all showing knife wounds.

Three victims had their feet sawn off at the ankles.

Others showed marks on thigh bones where their cutting had started.

Wow.

One of the victims who was Nandis Cervantes, that's the one who was cut from the pubic area all the way up to the breastbone.

Now, what they also find scattered around all these bodies are miniature vodka bottles.

Shitloads of clear blues bottles.

And orange juice containers.

Really?

Same brands that they found in Dayton's truck, by the way.

Uh-oh.

Uh-oh.

The next day, they go searching for more.

The next nine days, 200 people are going to search.

They grid out the entire forest into 25-foot squares.

Yeah.

And that's it.

So they said, quote, if it doesn't grow, bag it as evidence.

If it's not, if the roots aren't in the ground,

if it doesn't have a tail, fucking throw it in the bag.

No photosynthesis, bring it to the fucking lab.

Let's go.

Let's go.

So on day six of this searching, there's two detectives, Turner and Machado, and they walk about a quarter mile away from the scene to have a cigarette break, a place where they could, you know, not contaminate.

They're standing there.

They light up cigarettes, and Detective Turner said, you smell that, Mike?

Oh, boy.

20 feet away from them, another body.

God damn it.

Another fucking body.

So altogether, seven bodies they find in the forest.

Wow.

At this one site.

Seven.

Wow.

They perform autopsies and determine the type of death caused each of the women.

They couldn't tell at first by looking, but once they get into it, they know a little more.

But it's all homicidal violence, basically, is what they rule it on.

They estimate that the bodies had been in the forest from one to three months.

Depending on the bodies, some a month, some three months.

Because of the decomposition, they couldn't rule out strangulation as causes of death because they couldn't determine whether the various wounds had been inflicted before or after death.

So here are the victims and here are what they happened to them.

One is, and I put them kind of in the order of when I thought he put them here.

Because we don't know for sure.

No idea.

So Cynthia Diane Devore, she was 21 years old, had an eight-month-old daughter, I believe, at the time.

Oh, boy.

Yeah, she was trying to make ends meet.

She was doing a little bit on the side, trying to make ends meet.

It's fucking sad.

Her body was totally skeletonized, the upper back revealing stab injuries.

That's the one that they didn't even smell anymore.

Riyatha

Giles or Giles, G-Y-L-E-S,

16 years old.

Yikes.

High school student.

No connection to the street, drugs, sex work, nothing.

Just picked her up.

Literally picked her up on the side of the road.

Six stab wounds to the lower back.

The bone of one lower leg had been sawed through and the foot had been sawed at the ankle.

Wow.

One foot missing.

Lisa Marie,

Lisa Marie Mock, I believe.

It's Mock, I believe.

Lisa Marie Mock, 23 years old.

She was a pretty severe drug addict and a regular on the Portland streets.

But she was about to inherit a bunch of money, like a shitload of money.

Oh, damn it.

She was identified by her distinctive tattoos.

She had both feet removed.

So I think we go from no feet removed, one feet removed, one foot removed, two feet removed, is probably the progression of how this works.

Deep stab wounds to the lower back region.

Both feet had been sawed off at the ankle and were found underneath the body.

There were multiple saw marks on the right thigh bone just above the knee.

Then, Christine Lotus Adams, she's 35.

Oh.

By the way, different races, different ages.

No fucking

very Green River-like.

That's the other reason why they thought it was Green River because Ted Bundy, you know who his victims are.

You find a 38-year-old lady with

20 extra pounds on her ass, that ain't Ted Bundy's.

You know what I mean?

You find a cute college girl, that's Ted Bundy's.

Whereas Green River, it could be anybody, any time, any age, any race, doesn't matter.

Now, this girl, this woman here, Christine Lotus Adams,

she had a 15-year-old daughter.

The star-shaped grommets that were found in the stove are from her pants.

We find later on.

Absolutely.

Stab wounds to the back.

Right foot had been severed at the ankle.

Hands bound by a dog collar with the arms above the head when the body was found.

Maureen Ann Hodges, 26 years old,

also from Portland, vanished around the same time as

Lisa did, the Lisa Marie mock woman.

Jesus Christ, this is fucking horrible.

She was

also a drug user, a known drug user.

Her remains were scattered by animals.

The legs below the knees were not found, and the lower back revealed stabbing injuries.

Nandis Noni Cervantes, she's from Tempe, Arizona.

Arizona.

Yes, she is the most brutally mutilated of anybody.

She is, they think that when they when he cut her from fucking groin to breastbone.

They think she was still alive.

For Christ's sake.

They think she absolutely

tortured her pretty much.

Abdomen split open with a sharp object from below the breastbone to the pubic area.

Right nipple appeared to have been cut and the left nipple had appeared to have been cut and removed.

They think this all happened

while she's alive.

Body number seven, they cannot identify.

No.

They have an unidentified young lady.

They don't know, which is sad.

Very, very sad.

We'll have an update on that later.

So now the site where all these bodies were found, that's when they found 38 miniature bottles of that particular brand of vodka that Dayton liked to drink.

That's a lot.

A A cardboard sleeve that would hold 10 miniature vodka bottles, you know, like they give you at the store, and 34 orange juice containers.

Good lord.

He's been here a lot.

Partying out here.

Which, what does that tell you?

He comes back.

He comes back.

Yeah.

Because that's way more vodka and orange juice than victims.

Right.

He comes back just like Green River,

just like Ted Bundy.

He comes back.

What do you think he does with those bodies when he comes back?

Yeah.

Disgusting shit.

A knife with human tissue on it was found near two of the bodies.

They also found several items that had been tied into knots, including panty hose, shoelaces, rope, and cloth.

Never trust that Boy Scout who's too good at knots, by the way.

That's

going to be real weird.

Ted Bundy loved knots.

He said that all the time.

They also found a dog collar in addition to the one that was binding one of their hands and feet.

Remember that?

Or hands.

Remember,

they found a matching dog collar to that.

Also pieces of wire.

They found the knife that they found is the same kind and brand as the one he dumped behind the building next to the Denny's on August 7th as well.

He's not good at covering his tracks.

I mean, basically, when you put shit out there, it's like, if no one ever finds it, I'm fine.

But if anyone ever finds all this, I'm fucked.

Or I don't know.

You just figure it.

It's out in the middle of nowhere.

Nobody will ever tie this to me.

But wouldn't you look around and see shell casings and shit and go, hunters come here?

Bad spot.

People are here.

People come here, but I guess he didn't think about it.

Now, items found earlier in his truck and shop.

They seized a hacksaw that could have caused the marks on the legs of a lot of these forest victims.

They think he was doing it right at the shop where he was taking them.

From the ashes of the shop's wood stove, they found a shoe shank, eyelets, and swivels from Smith's other tennis shoe, shoe shanks from two pairs of other shoes, shoe eyes, you know, that you put the

laces through, shoe nails, like a sole being nailed on, like a dress shoe, burned and partially burned fabric, numerous bra parts, snap fasteners, decorative metal parts, and clothing studs from women's clothing, included star, including star-shaped studs later identified as studs from Adam's pants, buttons, numerous zipper parts, earring pieces, and belt buckles.

They also took his boots, which also had bloodstains on them.

In his truck, they found a bungee cord, a green pull tab from a juice container similar to the containers found at the forest crime scene, numerous bloodstains, several human hairs.

Some of the bloodstains found were made by type O blood, the same subtype as Jennifer Smith's blood.

Type O is also the same subtype as the defendant, as his blood subtype, and is inconsistent with Smith's blood subtype was also found.

Oh, other blood blood that was inconsistent with Jennifer Smith was also found in the truck that wasn't his or hers.

Okay.

Cervantes and Adams also had type O blood.

Giles' blood was type A.

Of the human hairs

that were found, several were microscopically similar to the mock woman's hair.

Two hairs were consistent with Cervantes and two hairs with Devore's hair, that woman.

So they also noticed all the knife wounds there.

So they put together kind of a little, this is a lot.

This is crazy shit.

They put together kind of a

figure out his patterns, basically.

And they said he would definitely head to Portland's Union Avenue.

All the street ladies there knew him as Steve the Gambler from Vegas or Reno.

Never haggled about price, always paid cash.

Didn't say like, I'll give you a hit of crack or something.

He always paid in cash, didn't haggle about price.

He'd stop at a convenience store for orange juice, pour in vodka from the miniatures he had while driving.

Then he'd take them to the forest, start with bondage, shoelaces, wire, whatever was handy.

Then he'd get the knife.

He'd cut some.

He'd bite some, sometimes for hours.

Basically, if they fought back, he would kill them and saw off their feet and burn their clothes in his shop's woodstove.

Fuck.

Clean the car at a car wash, wash out the interior, then go home to Sherry and go to church the next day and act like he was

a great family man.

This is a dangerous guy, dude.

I mean, just a serial killer, straight up serious.

And he's been doing this for years.

Straight Ted Bundy, Green River, BTK kind of guy.

Then women start coming forward with stories.

One woman who survived one of his attacks named Carol.

Before, now, they didn't detail to the public.

They just put out they found bodies.

They didn't detail the feet being cut off.

Okay.

So this one, this woman asked the prosecutors, did any of the victims have their feet cut off?

Yeah.

And then she showed them her ankle,

which was a healed wound with ragged edges on it, where she said, he started cutting on my leg with a hacksaw.

Oh, boy.

So they sent her to the doctor and they confirmed it was cuts from a hacksaw on her bone.

Wow.

So that means that they believe,

this is fucking insane, but they believe

Dayton,

totally, they believe that Dayton was cutting these women's feet off while they were alive.

Good lord.

Based on this lady, that seems to be his jam.

Okay.

Another one of ladies that have been with him is Susan.

She had been with him 20 to 30 times.

Really?

She was his favorite.

One night, they went up near the forest there.

He started cutting her feet with a knife.

She was tied up, and she couldn't, in the middle of the woods.

So she's like, I'm fucked.

She said, there's no reason to scream because no one's going to hear me.

Anyway, so she told him, quote, just kill me, get it over with.

Okay.

And she said, that's when he stopped.

Dead in his tracks.

Stopped, started the car back up and started driving away.

Over with.

Drove her back to Portland, dropped her off at her spot.

No problem.

She said, she walked away with my shoes full of blood.

That's what she said.

And

so if you surrender and stop fighting, he has no interest in you.

If you fight, he wants to cut your feet off.

Wow.

This is crazy.

Now, February of 1988 is the trial for Jennifer Smith.

That's the first trial.

Just the one.

They can't mention any of the Forrest stuff because he hasn't been convicted of that.

It's just Jennifer Smith.

And they think based on the forensics and the witnesses, they have a lot of evidence here.

So the district attorney addresses the jury in the opening statements.

Wow.

It's a jury of five women and seven men.

And he says, you know, Dayton murdered Jenny.

He had a plan to do it.

He followed a pattern he's established with countless other women.

And, you know, he said that he's a vicious predator who killed for sexual thrill.

He said, you'll find the reason he went to Portland was to satisfy what you will find to be his bizarre sexual appetite.

You'll find his sexual appetite, including bondage, masturbation, and intent to inflict intense physical pain.

The defense, on the other hand, how do you defend this?

Wouldn't me.

Wow.

Well, he gets worse, actually.

He tells the jurors that they, listen, you're not going to like my client, but you're not here to decide whether he's an asshole or not.

You're here to decide whether he's a murderer.

He said, yes, he did kill Jenny Smith.

That's a fact.

Really?

It's indisputable.

He said, that's right.

He said, nobody's denying it, but he killed her by accident while defending himself.

Oh.

Because

when you're defending yourself, you stab someone 11 times in both sides of their body and cut their throat.

That's how it works, obviously.

That's what he said.

He stressed that, listen,

you know, this is, he's got weird sexual stuff.

That's fine, but ignore that.

He mentioned that Jenny had spotted more than $200 in Dayton's wallet when they stopped at a convenience store to buy orange juice.

They say at which time she made the decision to rob him at knife point.

Got it.

Yeah.

She waited until later when they arrived in a parking lot, the, you know, the Denny's parking lot, had drunk some of the screwdriver, and Dayton had got out of the truck to take a leak.

At that time, they say Jenny pulled a knife from the glove compartment of Dayton's truck and brought it up next to his throat, demanding his wallet.

When he came back, he wouldn't hand it over, and a struggle ensued.

He said that turned into a wrestling match for the knife, and during the struggle, she'd been stabbed several times and killed purely by accident.

Yeah.

That is the worst excuse I've ever heard in my life.

It's a theory.

If there was one stab wound and it was like sticking out of her neck while he stood over the body going, help, help,

then it would be believable, maybe.

But this is not.

At one point, the prosecutor had portions of his truck brought into the courtroom as exhibits.

Nice.

They took it apart, man.

Criminologists and detectives pointed out evidence, mostly blood, cuts, and slash marks, and fingerprints that have been found on the truck's door handles and panels and

door sill trays, seat frames, floor mats, floor coverings, coverings, seat bolts, and the actual seat and frame themselves.

Some of the fingerprints were Jenny's, and many of the bloodstains were believed to have come from Jenny and Dayton and other people as well.

Not only that, remember the

1972 15-year-old that he stabbed?

They bring her in to testify.

Oh, we can talk about that.

Because it's similar, too.

It's in the truck, the same people.

He's convicted of that.

And he's convicted.

She showed off a six-inch scar and described him as having, quote, cold black eyes when he stabbed her.

No remorse, no feeling.

Now, the medical examiner comes in as well, and they have pictures of the wounds depicted that he'd inflicted while he's defending himself.

And they're like, yeah, these wounds here,

it'd be over here.

There'd be no more, no need to further defend yourself.

They're like, this wound pierced the liver and severed one of her major arteries.

They said the rest are torture wounds to her breasts and defensive wounds while trying to attempt to fight her her off.

This was somebody enjoying what they were doing.

Yeah.

They said that Dayton was left-handed in courtroom testimony, but there's an issue of whether he received the wounds to his right hand from a hacksaw, as he had said, or whether they were incurred during his struggle with

Jenny Smith.

People close to the case believed he was ambidextrous.

Oh.

Though they could never prove that in court, basically.

They said basically that

he had cut himself as he slashed Jenny with the knife in his left hand while trying to hold her with his right hand.

Okay.

So they think he was holding her and he accidentally stabbed himself because he was on top of her.

And it's all bloody and slippery.

This guy takes the stand.

Hell yeah.

Dude,

what?

This is a circus now.

So

he takes the stand, an aggravated murder case.

And in his version of the events, he told the jurors that he paid her $40

for a sexual encounter.

That involved bondage.

This was all

above board.

He said he got out of the truck to urinate after having bound her hands and feet with shoelaces, but she slipped out of the bindings and took the knife from the glove box.

And he said, quote, she attacked me when I got back inside the truck.

He said she was still nude, but holding a knife to my throat and ordering me to give over my wallet.

Oh, boy.

You ever been robbed at knife point by a nude woman?

Has anyone ever been robbed at knife point by a completely naked woman?

I'll give you whatever you want.

Sure, why not?

You didn't need the knife, really.

That's the thing.

It was real knife.

Here you go.

There you go.

Thank you, I guess.

I don't know.

For the visual, that's how pathetic we are.

You won't even need the knife.

So that's his story, though.

He said he refused and fought back.

He said he feared for his life.

Yeah.

I took short knife.

That was so scary.

I took it with me for fucking safekeeping.

He knocked her arm away and wrestled her for the knife, which he eventually wrenched

from her hands.

He said, I got a hold of it and used the knife on her.

I was just going back and forth in virtually any direction I could.

That's why she had so many cuts.

He said, she eventually jumped from the truck and he chased her across the parking lot, eventually grabbing her as she fell to the pavement.

And that's when he tripped over her.

Okay, if you were so afraid of her and then she got out and ran away, threat fucking over.

Fert and drive, yeah.

Yeah, threat over.

Awesome.

You win.

But no, he had to go chase her.

He said both are feet entangled.

I don't want to hear you talking about feet, sir.

She went down backward and I fell down on top of her.

On the way down, that's when I stabbed her in the upper area here.

talking about the right side of his chest over by the shoulder area.

So that's his excuse.

It's a crazy story.

So, I mean, but you never know.

If a guy gets up there and tells it, the jury might believe it.

That's the thing.

So during closing arguments here, the defense attorney says, this is the understatement of the year.

I know

you find my client's contacts with prostitutes vile and disgusting.

I know.

He says, you have no sympathy for my client.

I know you don't like Mr.

Rogers.

Oh, poor Mr.

Rogers.

I know you don't like Mr.

Rogers.

Wow, Mr.

Rogers Forest neighborhood here.

This is horrifying.

And you don't like what he's done to these girls.

He's not here for a popularity contest.

Understatements, yeah.

Wow.

If he was going to go out on one of his usual dates and torture and sexually abuse a woman, where would he go?

Would he go to one of the few establishments in Clackamas County that's open at one or two in the morning?

Like, no, he'd obviously go

somewhere more remote.

He raised self-defense in this case, he said.

A defense against, and then, yeah, he said that.

Then the prosecutor said he raised self-defense in this case.

Self-defense against what?

A naked, bleeding woman?

What are we talking about?

He said, the defendant's claim of robbery is hogwash.

I like that.

Hogwash, pure hogwash.

Jenny Smith was naked.

If a prostitute is going to rob a customer, a John, she knows she's got to get away.

What is she supposed to have said?

Mr.

Rogers, take the knife for a minute so I can get my clothes back on and get away?

Yeah.

Exactly.

Hold this.

So the verdict comes in.

Here we go.

This takes two weeks of deliberation.

Two weeks.

12 reasonably intelligent adults, taxpayers, couldn't decide whether he's guilty of this in two weeks.

Feels like it was probably much less than 12, right?

Probably one dude was probably like, nah.

Then the other 11 should have fucking worked him over with a rubber hose until he figured this this one out.

This isn't like, oh, you know, all the jurors, everybody has their own, you know, give everybody a chance to go over it.

Fuck it.

Under the 12 angry men.

No, not at all.

So they finally, they come to a conclusion here and a verdict, and they find him guilty of aggravated murder.

Yes.

Now, during sentencing, death penalty on the table, mind you,

the court, they say that during the guilt phase, the court refused to permit the introduction of evidence regarding the forest victims.

The state didn't offer that evidence during the penalty phase either here.

In the penalty phase, the jury was asked three questions.

This is by the judge asking three questions now.

The questions are, number one, was the conduct of the defendant, Dayton Leroy Rogers, that caused the death of Jennifer Lisa Smith committed deliberately and with the result of expectation, with the reasonable expectation that the death of Jennifer Lisa Smith would result?

That's question one.

Seems like a pretty clear yes on that one.

Number two, is there a probability that the defendant who would commit or would commit criminal acts of violence that would constitute a continuing threat to society?

Will he keep doing this?

And then three, was the conduct of the defendant in killing the deceased, Jennifer Lisa Smith, unreasonable in response to the provocation, if any, by the deceased?

They answered no to the first two questions.

Really?

No.

They said that what he did,

he didn't do deliberately and with the reasonable expectation of death.

If you cut someone's throat, you shouldn't expect them to die.

They're going to live through that.

Yeah.

And is there a probability that he would commit further acts of violence that would be a threat to society?

They went, no, he's good.

11 stab wounds and

neckslashed.

One-time thing, man.

She shouldn't have gone for his wallet.

And then they do say yes to the third, meaning it was an unreasonable provocation.

So that tells you exactly where the jury was at.

They believe that she tried to rob him.

They believe that.

Yeah.

They're on board with it.

They're on board.

That is insane.

Wow.

So although the jury concluded it was an unreasonable response, it did not conclude that he had acted deliberately when he killed Smith.

They didn't think it was deliberate.

Wow.

And did not conclude it was probable that he would commit acts in the future.

Therefore, they cannot sentence him to death because they don't find the aggravators.

He is sentenced to you, sir.

May fuck off life with parole after 30 years.

What the fuck?

Okay.

That's okay.

Now, after the conviction,

Roger's lawyer, Dayton's lawyer, goes to the prosecutors.

This is after sentencing and after everything.

And he knows that now they're making the cases.

They're going to try all the forest murders at the same time.

He says, quote, if you don't seek death penalty for the forest murders, he'll tell you where the rest of the bodies are.

Oh, Jesus.

How many bodies are there, Jimmy?

How many?

So many.

So many.

There's probably three, four more sites with eight, nine different women in it.

He didn't just start doing that three months before they caught him.

There's no fucking way on earth.

No way in the world.

Wow.

They said that the metal in his wood stove suggested more than eight victims because there's too many brack clasps, too many shoe parts.

So he's indicted for the forest killings, aggravated murder, and everything else.

Two counts of aggravated murder for each victim.

Yeah.

So he's in deep shit.

And also

in the course of sexual abuse, aggravated murder in the course of sexual abuse, all this shit.

This somehow is an all-female jury, all ladies on this jury.

They accepted that, huh?

Wow.

I don't know if he thought that they would, upstanding women, would think that these girls were beneath them or deserved it or whatever the fuck, or if that he has a terrible lawyer who doesn't go, Jesus Christ,

they're going to attack him with their purses halfway through this fucking thing.

They're going to scratch his eyes out.

So they bring in the forensic evidence.

They found the colored glass in a victim's hair that matched the glass in his stove.

Uh-oh.

They found the victim's hair in his truck.

They found,

they testified, a relative of his testified about finding evidence in the wood stove.

That's the father-in-law.

This guy, the father-in-law, broke down crying twice and wouldn't look over at Dayton.

A 15-year-old identified her mother's star-shaped gene studs found in the ashes.

The poor girl.

Imagine that.

This poor girl is 15 fucking years old.

Not only is her mother murdered, but she has to

go testify about pieces of genes of her mother's.

That's horrifying.

They said the orange juice containers and vodka bottles are his signature, like the mark of Zorro, the prosecutor said.

He might as well have written his name on the corpses.

Absolutely.

It's true.

It's true.

They said, what is the ultimate act of dominance for him to remove that foot?

We submit that's what happened in the Malala Forest.

They bring in 11 ladies to testify against him, 11 people that he has done business with in the past here.

And wow, one testified about his conduct during the encounters.

Jesus Christ, this is

Carol

Van Size.

Oh, this is horrifying.

She says that she was working on the streets in 87 as a prostitute, and he picked her up and had bitten and pinched her breasts hard enough to draw blood.

and used a knife to cut the heel of her right foot.

She said, he told me he was going to have to cut my breasts off or strangle me.

I'm going to have to.

I told him he wasn't going to cut my breasts off.

He'd have to kill me.

Not going to let you do that.

So they asked if she was afraid during the torture.

And she said, afraid, but sick of it.

She said at one point, she just told him, you know what?

Go ahead.

Do it.

Another one.

If you're on the street and you've had a tough life and all that kind of shit, at some point you're like, you know what?

Fucking go ahead.

I don't fucking care anymore.

And that's what she said.

And she said, at that point,

done.

No more interest.

He quit.

He stopped and he was fucking done.

Same thing in countless, countless stories.

They said there's been, they brought out a ton of stories from women to testify against him.

Another named Sandra Scott said that he tied her up and bit her brutally the year before.

Another named Marie Johnson said that he tortured her during 1986 during an encounter.

Basically, it's terrifying.

There was testimony concerning all of them.

They said, now when he's driving away, does he drink anything?

And they'd go, oh, yeah, he's got an orange juice and he has little mini vodka bottles and he pours them.

Every single one of them said that.

Wow.

So that just ties him so dead to rights to that shit.

Several of them also testified that he took them to areas near where all these bodies were found in the forest out there.

What a wild guy.

Several of them also said that they willingly accompanied him out there and did so because they didn't think he was going to hurt them.

When they did hurt them, several of them said that he refused to untie them and take them back to the city.

One said she jumped out of the truck naked to escape him.

Wow.

One described six hours of torture in the forest.

He was biting and tearing at my breasts.

When I screamed too loud, he'd put something against my neck.

I assumed a knife.

Told me to be quiet or I'd really have something to cry about.

Which is exactly what an abusive father says to their fucking son.

How long has he been using that line that his dad used on him?

They said, what were you doing then?

And she said, just existing.

Meaning, what were you doing for a living?

The prosecutor says, quote, he's capable of fooling psychologists.

He's capable of fooling psychiatrists.

I hope to God he's not capable of fooling you.

Yeah.

Jury needs six hours of deliberation, and that just might be because there's so many charges and so much to go over.

And they find him absolutely guilty as balls of every goddamn thing.

They go.

Is there anything else you want to charge him with?

We'll just write guilty on it.

Just tell us now.

Let's go.

We'll put it on there.

We don't care.

June of 1989 is sentencing for this.

Death penalty on the table.

Aggravators coming out of his asshole.

You, sir, may fuck off death penalty for this asshole.

Uh-oh.

Finally, they got this guy for something.

Now,

some thoughts on the crimes after this, because they got something a lot of criminologists talk about it and people like that.

They're studying this guy like they would, like they did with Green River or Ted Bundy.

One said, this guy

thought that was a sexual thrill, the torture.

And another said, for sexually sadistic killers like Rogers, murder can be very pleasurable compared with normal sexual experiences.

There's just no comparison.

And the medical examiner said, I've never seen anything like that before or since.

Stabbing, cutting, sawing, that's all pretty rough stuff.

And

they said, basically,

the fact that he would kill the wit, didn't kill the women who gave in

is

not something that women should look at in case they're in this situation because it's different with every guy.

Some guys, if you give up, it pisses them off.

They want you to resist and they'll kill you for that.

Some guys want you to fight and then they'll let you go.

Some guys, whatever their trigger is, you don't know.

That's the thing.

You don't know.

And there's tons of stories of women who got released from kidnappers after telling them a sob story about my father's got cancer or something.

Whereas other ones where they did the same thing and the guy was extra pissed off at them for trying to work their emotions.

So it's crazy.

Now, there's a bunch of appeals for this, as you might imagine.

Right.

A bunch of appeals.

I'll get to a couple of them that are kind of points that are apt here.

One of them contends, one of the points of appeal contends that the trial court erred in denying his motion for an order authorizing expenses for a pre-trial public opinion poll.

Oh, to find out if we should move this.

If you watch a lot of trials, that is something the defense always does is a pre-opinion poll to see how many people have heard about the case in this area.

And if 97% of the people have heard about it, how are you going to find a jury?

So they won't give him that.

He wanted to poll the jury in order to figure out the extent of the publicity, which was vast.

Sure.

I mean, this guy killed a shitload of people.

This is crazy.

He said that the denial of his motion violated his rights under the Oregon Statute and his constitutional rights to adequate assistance of counsel, freedom from cruel and unusual punishment, and due process.

That's right.

So that's what he says.

The court denied his request for the expenses for the opinion poll, concluding it was satisfied that the individual vadir of prospective jurors and the additional preemptory challenges will permit the selection of a jury unaffected by publicity.

He just said, I'll give you guys extra challenges.

How's that?

And they went, all right, fine.

That's good.

He also failed to establish the probable value of him to the public opinion poll in light of the extensive vadir provided.

So, what more could you have found out from that

that would make you not guilty, basically?

Also, he contends that the court erred in denying his challenge for cause of all prospective jurors who knew of his earlier conviction for aggravated murder of Smith, of Jennifer Smith.

Specifically, he contended that knowledge of the conviction was so prejudicial that it demonstrated an actual bias from which a prospective juror could not be rehabilitated.

Five of the jurors at the trial were aware of his conviction for the Smith murder.

He asserted that he was not tried by an impartial jury, and that is his problem.

Also, juror misconduct, as he calls it.

On the fourth day of the guilt phase of the trial, a juror was washing her hands in the bathroom and was approached by the mother of one of the victims.

Oh, no.

She told the juror that she either wanted to thank her, that she wanted to thank her or that she appreciated what she was doing.

The juror said, I can't remember what she said, but it was quick.

She said, I want to thank you or I appreciate it or something like that.

She said she never identified herself and she didn't know who the person, or she didn't know.

She didn't know it was the mom.

Yeah.

Didn't know it was a mom, and she said that she didn't respond to it either.

Just someone said, Thank you, or whatever.

And a lot of people will do that.

Just say, oh, thanks for your service on it.

Thanks for doing that.

And it doesn't have to be a victim.

So the juror then left the restroom and reported this to the bailiff.

Oh, someone talked to her.

They have to.

The following morning, they had a big hearing in the chambers, and they questioned both the mother and the juror separately.

And they both gave the exact same account of their encounter.

And they said, yeah, that's not going to, that's not going to make her, yeah, it's not going to make this person prejudiced against the client.

So the juror did say she assumed that this woman was the defendant's mother.

Oh.

She said, I thought it was Dayton's mother at first.

That's what I thought.

I didn't realize it was her mother.

And that after the encounter, she only told the bailiff and no other jurors about it because she thought that that was like attempted juror fucking tampering, basically.

So he ends up moving for a mistrial, arguing that the juror would realize that the mother was not the defendant's mother and that she was being thanked in advance for convicting him instead and imposing a death sentence.

Okay.

Which trial court said, get the fuck out of here.

No.

But they did give a cautionary instruction directing them to avoid all contact with any participants.

He also appeals the sufficiency of the facts.

We'll just skip over that because the facts are pretty.

They are pretty strong.

Yeah.

I mean, the physical evidence, the

everything.

Yeah.

You were stabbing.

No, get the fuck out of here.

Yeah.

We know what you do.

We know the feet.

We know all that shit.

It's you.

If it's anything weird with feet, it's you, dude.

Yeah.

And 30 bras clasps were burned.

That's a lot.

That's what I'm saying.

Wow.

They say with respect.

He tried to say that the aggravated felony murder slash sexual abuse count concerning the death of Cervantes tried to say that it was

it wasn't reasonable for the jury to infer that he cut off her nipple in order to gratify a sexual desire.

Well, what else did you gratify?

And that she didn't consent to doing so.

Oh, okay.

All right.

So she might have said, please cut off my nipple.

And then he said, sure, fine, and wasn't even like sexually turned on by that.

That's what he's trying to tell a fucking appeals court.

Okay.

Now the conviction is affirmed.

Yeah.

But the Oregon Supreme Court

in 92 vacates the death penalty and remands him for a new penalty phase phase of the trial.

Re-sentencing.

The ruling was influenced by a U.S.

Supreme Court decision emphasizing defendants' right to present mitigation that could sway juries toward life sentences and away from death.

1994 is the re-sentencing, the penalty phase hearing.

He is re-sentenced to you, sir.

Keep fucking off.

Death again.

Okay.

One more.

Another one.

2000, the Supreme Court again vacates the death sentence and remands for another penalty phase trial.

The court held the trial judge erred by not allowing the jury to consider life without parole as a sentencing option, which had become available under Oregon law after the initial trial.

Oh, okay.

So we're talking the last one.

Okay.

2006.

Be back for remand.

The third jury sentences him to death again.

Die.

2012, they just run him over with a truck in the parking lot as they're taking him to court.

No.

On automatic review, Oregon Supreme Court vacates the death sentence and remands another new penalty phase.

The court focused on five key claims, rejecting three related to constitutional amendments, and the third question on provocation and evidence admission for that question.

Anyway, they say that the court erred in impaddling an anonymous jury without sufficient grounds for jury protection.

And they

improperly allowed state expert testimony about Rogers' consensual teenage homosexual experience.

Oh, boy.

He did some experimenting when he was a teenager there.

So the Supreme Court vacates the sentence again,

saying the jury thing was improper.

2013,

the seventh body is finally identified

as

Tanya Jerry Johnston, an 18-year-old.

Wow.

18.

DNA technology finally identified this poor young lady.

That's crazy.

2015, his his defense offers to waive future appeals for a life sentence.

They said, just give us life without, and we'll waive everything and this will be over.

And the state said, nah, we want to kill you.

We're doing the death penalty again.

So during the sentencing, he speaks and he cries and he's soft.

He reads a nine-minute statement.

Nine minutes?

Nine minutes after he's been called Oregon's most prolific serial killer.

He cries nine minutes, apologized,

calling sorry inadequate.

He said, the enormity of my crimes makes the word sorry inadequate.

But I am sorry.

So very sorry.

So sorry.

So very sorry.

Yeah.

Well, he says that the enormity of my crimes is so disturbing that it paralyzes me.

It may be impossible for you to believe, but I do have a conscience.

I humbly tell each of you that I am very sorry for what I did to your precious loved ones.

You, sir, may fuck off.

Death penalty again.

Yeah, because of that part where you just said plural loved ones.

That's crazy.

Then, 2021, the Oregon Supreme Court unanimously overturns that death sentence.

Really?

This is why I said it's just stupid.

Like the Koberger thing, did those families want to do this for 30 years?

Because this is the future of that.

This is 35 fucking years later.

These families are still going to court.

That's horrifying for these poor people.

These poor families.

It's just awful.

So it's overturned again here

due to a new law limiting aggravating factors.

Jesus Christ.

The family reactions here.

Wayne and Sherry DeVore said they raised their granddaughter after Cynthia was murdered, her daughter,

and they've attended every hearing for 30 years.

My God.

They said, we never get to have a say.

48 jurors said death was just, but the rules keep changing.

Wow.

Now,

her daughter, who was eight months old when she died, who's now grown and has children of her own, says, I'm devastated by the court rulings.

What does this mean moving forward?

And, man,

that's fucking crazy.

So one of the detectives leading the forest search said, we realized we had a serial killer when I found the third body.

First thing through my mind.

Oh, gee, three bodies in one place.

Wow.

That's why you're the detective, mister.

What about the second one, man?

Wow.

Yeah, that's just an accident.

What the fuck?

The prosecutor said, based on the cruelty he's shown, he's right up there with the most evil serial killers.

Absolutely.

The survivors, a lot of them started new lives, became citizens, some died.

Some went one way, some went the other way.

One called after the verdict and said, I was working at a job fixing dinner, saw him on the news, had a fit, was shaking, thinking it could be me, it could be me, it could be me.

December 2022, the governor just commutes all death sentences to life without parole in Oregon and says, fuck this.

And the reason why for a lot of it was, do you know what this has cost the taxpayers?

Millions of dollars.

This is just for his defense they had to pay for.

Now, this is not all the prosecution, all the science, all the psychologists, all the,

that is 10 times this amount.

Just his defense cost $2.5 million

to the state of fucking Oregon.

You know, things that that would go better toward, probably.

I can think of a few.

So, in prison, he's at the Two Rivers Correctional Institution in Umatilla, Oregon,

where he works as an inmate barber.

Really?

That guy ain't cutting my fucking hair

right now.

They gave that guy scissors?

Yep, that's crazy.

When he's not cutting hair, he's only allowed out of his cell every 20 minutes out of every 24 hours for a shower.

He still maintains he acted in self-defense with Smith and claims the forest victims, quote, provoked him somehow.

Oh my God.

And he's never revealed how many more bodies there are either.

Dozens.

Man,

that's crazy.

Charles Gates, the guy who found him murdering Jennifer Smith, said he was more evil than any of us could possibly imagine.

Once all the cards were on the table, we could see something that was just monstrous.

And

another woman, Sherry Letter, who was the woman who held Jennifer as she died and the paramedics worked on her, she said, no one cared, but I did.

When I go, everyone will have forgotten about Jenny.

And the detective, John Turner, one of the main detectives, said, how many other bodies are still lying in Oregon's forests awaiting discovery?

Unless Dayton decides to talk, that question may never be answered.

And he's in his 70s now.

He's not talking.

He's not saying shit.

Some very good information, especially on background stuff, came from a book called Bloodlust, Portrait of a Serial Sex Killer

by Gary C.

King.

It says eight pages of shocking photos.

Jesus Christ.

Good Christ.

So there you go, everybody.

That is Oregon.

Oak Grove, Oregon.

That's where the Denny's was, by the way, in Oak Grove.

That's why that's there.

So, holy shit.

This is insane.

Wow.

Took all that in.

I'm going to say enjoyed it.

I hope you enjoyed it, but obviously not too much because that would be creepy.

And I'd be looking for feet under your fucking.

Yeah, I'd be looking for feet under your floorboards at that point.

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It's a crazy story.

Crazy.

Really wild story we'll talk about.

And then for small-town murder, we're going to talk about the history of executions in the U.S.

because a lot of people wanted that over Ted Bundy, even.

So that's what we're going to talk about.

It's going to be very, very interesting.

And on top of all of that, you also get all of our shows, Crime and Sports, Your Stupid Opinion, Small Town Murder, all ad-free.

Your Patreon as well.

And you get a shout-out at the end of the show.

Damn it, we just give too much.

That's what it is.

We just want to give.

Jimmy, let's do this right now.

Hit me with the names of the people who you would never leave in a forest with missing feet.

Jimmy, hit me with them right fucking now.

This week, Executive Producer, Gary Howard, Jennifer Frisch, how are you, Jen?

Exact Solutions.

She doesn't give her name, but the lady came to our show in Irvine, and evidently

the whole office is thrilled to hear about it.

Well, lovely.

We appreciate it.

Kate Balieko Rogers.

Thank you all so much for everything you guys do.

Thank you.

You're amazing.

Thank you.

Yes, can't say it enough.

Other producers are Peyton Meadows.

Happy hour in Nagadoches, Texas.

Oh, Oh, boy.

Poor bastard.

Get out of there, happy hour.

Every time it's the worst places you ever heard.

This guy overnights in the worst places you ever heard.

Janice Hill, Sydney with no last name.

Crochrot, Louisiana, this week.

Holy fuck.

Welcome to Dick Hole, Mississippi.

Oh, boy.

Sarah Gatchik.

Heidi Griffin checking in in

Yeast Infection, Florida.

Hey, one of my favorite spots.

I love a

tract infraction Florida.

That's wonderful.

Jalen Scoglund, Matt Van Giesen, Liz,

Liz, L-Y-S, it's Alyssa, but I don't, what do you say, Liz?

I think it's Liss.

Yeah, Liz.

Thank you.

She didn't give her a last name.

Alexander Wisinand, Joseph Lindley, Andrea Davis, Krista Malloy, Megan Argo, Sam with no last name, Bent R.

C's, Jenalyn Willis, Bob Hodgman, Burns, Jill Brown, Rachel Sullivan, Venice Keller, Brett

Helgeson, Dakota Schultz, Cassie Jones, Amy with no last name, Will Puckett, Sandra Marks, C.C.

the Dundalkian.

I don't know who that is.

Caitlin Winkler,

Richard Hamilton.

Is that a person?

That's a basketball player.

There it is.

That's a NBA player for years.

Yukon, right?

I think so.

Tom Trimble.

Is that Rip Hamilton?

That's Rip Hamilton.

Yeah, Richard.

Rip Hamilton.

Tom Trimble.

Oh, smart.

Shelly Brown, Mellis, Mellis.

Melace, Melates.

Bill with no last name.

Elizabeth Vunk, Celia Kinney, Riley with no last name.

Tarek Newcomb Evans.

Amy Fortner.

John Gates.

Michael Lynn?

Finley?

Perhaps that's Mike Finley's daughter.

Brian Bates, Katie Dion,

Maria Rose, Joanne Fogarty.

Not, wait, it is the same spelling as John.

M.K.

Trafford, Michelle Kelly, Sarah with an H, Jana Van Nelson, Avery with no last name, Thomas Fallon, Elizabeth Sperber, Ray with no last name,

Amin Burns, Allie Diar, Bill Sale,

David Bullied.

That might be auto-corrected.

I don't know if he was or not bullied.

Akiko Namato,

Carolyn Beck Anderson, Nikki,

Balmberry, Donna with no last name, Tracy Taylor, Sarah Trippy, Sasha Bovey, Nina with no last name, Bloody Echo, Rob with no last name, Rachel Parker, Molly Manning, Kelly Ann, Olivia Roberts, Elena Bidlak, Zippora Abraka, Tom with no last name, Marcel Wiggins, Jeffrey Self, Shauna Rogers, Julio Danzing, Wooden Spoon, upside the head,

Helen Bennett, Bill Dubbs.

I don't know that I like that in a child abuse episode.

Ah, shit.

Bill Dubbs, Caitlin Yost, Misha Palmer, Misha Crane.

I'll bet those are people that are the same person.

There's no way a Misha Palmer and a Misha Crane donate back-to-back.

They're different people.

Everybody named Misha loves us.

Don't you know that?

Evidently.

They got to give us money.

Carlos Tabarez, Katie with no last name.

Sean Hale, Donna D., Michelle Hamilton, Joey

Benefield, Benefield.

Christy Ackley,

Carrie Fox, Carly Kane, Jenny Lean, Melanie with no last name, Aaron Flynn,

Lisa Harger, Linda McCarthy, Sarah Palumbo, Angela Cardo, Aisha Cissé, T.R.

Kaleen, Kaline, perhaps, Steven with no last name, Stephan, maybe, Becky Williams, Beverly Ellis, Shay Lee with no last name, Zachary Haas, Brandon Williams, and Butters the Cat.

Oh, I love a good cat with a great name.

name.

Jan Fisher.

Jan Fisher, maybe.

Tamar Pelegi, Pillagi, Ginger with no last name, Emily B., Carol Coulson, Holly Manning, and all of our patrons, especially the ones in Skin Infection, Indiana.

Thank you, everybody, so much.

Wow.

Fantastic, wonderful, magnificent bastards.

We just appreciate the hell out of it.

If you want to find us on social media, head over to shutupandgivemeurder.com.

Drop-down menus take you anywhere you want to go.

Keep coming back and seeing us week after week.

And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

Bye.

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Whatever team FEA is on has a chance to win a championship.

I'm Christina Williams, host of the podcast, in case you missed it with Christina Williams.

The WNBA playoffs are here and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout players to the behind-the-scenes moments you won't find anywhere else.

It's really, really hard to be the champions, but we have to remember how it feels and embrace this new challenge that we have.

So, listen to In Case You Missed It with Christina Williams and iHeart Women's Sports Production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.