The Murder Blame Game - Grafton, Vermont

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Speaker 1 Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay! and Cho Choo! Oh, yay, indeed, Jimmy.
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Speaker 1 Let's go on a trip, shall we? We're going up to Vermont this week.

Speaker 1 What a lovely place. A lovely, woodsy kind of place here.
This is Grafton, Vermont. This is kind of

Speaker 1 a touristy spot a little bit in this particular area. It's in southern Vermont, about two and a half hours to Boston.
So nice drive for a weekend away from Boston or something like that.

Speaker 1 About two hours to Stowe, Vermont, which is our last episode. That was episode 598, our last Vermont episode.
That was Cookies Solve Murders, which was actually true.

Speaker 1 Cookies Solved a Murder. Let's see.
This is in Wyndham County, Area Code 802. Population of this town, the permanent population, not very much, 587.

Speaker 1 A little tiny place here.

Speaker 1 Median household income, this is of the residents, not of the people vacationing, is is $68,125, which is right around the national average within $1,000.

Speaker 1 Median home cost, a little pricey here, though. I believe that.
$395,800 for houses here. And a lot of them are bigger and have more land and things like that, too.
So that makes sense.

Speaker 1 A little bit of history here. In the early 1800s, sheep raising became popular.
Really? Yeah, and a bunch of wool mills sprang up all along the rivers here and everything.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. And soap stone was quarried near Bear Mountain.
All right. Soapstone, by the way, is like

Speaker 1 a stone with a heavy talc content, and they make like countertops and

Speaker 1 bricks and things like that, fireplace bricks and stuff like that with it. It's not soap at all.
Not soap at all. They use the stone part.
It's very malleable, apparently.

Speaker 1 The Grafton Inn is still here. Now, this used to be the old tavern inn.
It was founded in 1801. Hell yeah.
This place, it remains one of the oldest continually operating hotels in the United States.

Speaker 1 And it's the

Speaker 1 Grafton Inn. This town, before the Civil War, had about 1,500 people.

Speaker 1 And what happened back then is regiments were from areas. So if a particular regiment got caught in a bad

Speaker 1 bad action,

Speaker 1 all the towns were

Speaker 1 townsmen.

Speaker 1 All the town's able-bodied younger men were all dead. That's how it would work.
And that's what happened here. Basically,

Speaker 1 all the town's men that went to the Civil War were all wiped out at once. Wow.
So it was huge. Local cemeteries in the village hold a lot of tombstones from the casualties of the Battle of Gettysburg.

Speaker 1 They lost tons at Gettysburg, these people. After the war, the community continued to decline in population because there was nobody with any sperm to impregnate anybody.

Speaker 1 Because science.

Speaker 1 The soap stone quarry was depleted and closed in the late 1800s. Around the time of the Great Depression, the town's population was less than 400.
And they brought it back. Jesus.

Speaker 1 They brought it back with like tourism and weekender people and stuff like that. Otherwise, this town.
They're dropping in to bang the locals. That's it.

Speaker 1 Just to stick one in the local, get that population up a little bit. Wow.
Reviews of this town. Here's five stars.
Beautiful town. Yeah.
They make you feel welcome.

Speaker 1 Community garden and trails for hiking, skiing and snowmobiling, a child's paradise.

Speaker 1 All those kids who love skiing. Right.

Speaker 1 All those eight-year-olds on snowmobiles. Huge, huge population.

Speaker 1 Those things are fucking heavy, man. Yeah.
I was a kid, I'd picture skiing as like an adult activity. You know what I mean? Adults go off and ski.
It's expensive.

Speaker 1 There's like booze involved.

Speaker 1 Legs

Speaker 1 wrestle like

Speaker 1 clothes and equipment. It's all like a little

Speaker 1 weird like douche consortium that they get together. I'm not sure.
And finally, four stars. Grafton is a small town with a tight-knit community.

Speaker 1 There is little in terms of jobs here here besides the inn.

Speaker 1 Right. So you can work at the inn.

Speaker 1 Probably seasonally, too. And that's, yeah, that's a thing, too.
In the winter, I don't know how much. Well, in the winter, you get your seasonal.

Speaker 1 I bet it's all seasons because you get the snow things, and in the summertime, you get hiking. So I think you probably get it both ways.
Hopefully. Things to do in this town.

Speaker 1 Okay. Now,

Speaker 1 there is the

Speaker 1 obviously the Grafton Inn to go there.

Speaker 1 The foundation, which helped restore the village and purchased the old tavern and turned it into that, also established established an artisanal cheese business, the Grafton Cheese Company, and built a world-class cross-country skiing center at Grafton Ponds.

Speaker 1 So there's that. Then there is the Fairy House Festival.
This fairy house festival here just look from the pictures was just a lot of 40-year-old women wearing wings. That's what it was.

Speaker 1 Walking around the woods.

Speaker 1 And they're eating cheese? No, that's a separate thing.

Speaker 1 Those are separate. This is

Speaker 1 follow a Vermont woodland path sprinkled with charming fairy houses for a magical experience of the natural world. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Walk the forested fairy house trail, make your own fairy houses, enjoy face painting, music, bubbles, crafts, food, local vendors. It's like what you take an eight-year-old to.

Speaker 1 An eight-year-old girl would enjoy it. There's no eight-year-olds at this point.

Speaker 1 From what I saw, it was all like adult women. It was interesting.

Speaker 1 But yeah, they build small structures out of natural materials and built an enchanted village through the woods and opening a portal to the incredible world around us. It's all made up.

Speaker 1 You're just walking through the woods pretending there's fairies. I don't know what you're doing.
That said, let's talk about some murder. Let's do this here.
Okay.

Speaker 1 We got to go back a little bit to 2002.

Speaker 1 So here we go. Cell phones, texting, no social media, and your cell phones all flip.
And you have to

Speaker 1 do it. Every letter is three clicks on a button to text.
So that's where we are here. Let's talk about a guy, guy, Greg Enos.

Speaker 1 Greg with three Gs altogether. G-R-E-G-G.

Speaker 1 Two at the back. Oh, yeah.
Back end, two Gs, double G.

Speaker 1 Enos, E-N-O-S. He's born July 24th, 1968.

Speaker 1 He was born in Bridgeport, Connecticut. His parents are Kenneth and Elaine.
And he went to school in Vermont, though. So he was born in Connecticut, but it seems like he grew up in Vermont.

Speaker 1 He went to New Fan High School and Leland High School as well in Townshend, which we did an episode on.

Speaker 1 He worked a lot around in lumber things here.

Speaker 1 He worked at the Allard Lumber Company and the CNS

Speaker 1 wholesale grocers in Brattleboro, which is where he lived at the time in 2002.

Speaker 1 He liked going to flea markets and buying old stuff. That was his jam.
It is fun to do back there because you can find it.

Speaker 1 You can find really old shit.

Speaker 1 Right here by your house. There is some old shit sitting in an antique shop and they don't want anything for it.
No.

Speaker 1 Sometimes they know it's over.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, less now at the internet because they can sell it online too and they know. But yeah, there's old shit in my house when I moved in.
It's like, it's cool. Yeah, you'll find anything now.

Speaker 1 Now, Enos has had some problems in his life here. He's had convictions for drunken driving, unlawful mischief, furnishing alcohol to minors, and possession of marijuana.
Kind of a party.

Speaker 1 Which, I mean, these are all like rural. These aren't, he's not like a master criminal.
These are like super trooper crimes, if you've seen that. They're going to, you know, pull him over.

Speaker 1 He's got a bag of weed on him. This is saying

Speaker 1 he's just a goofball. Yeah, rural goofball shit, exactly.

Speaker 1 Now, he lives with a woman in Brattleboro on Elliott Street. Believe her name is Sandra.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Now, one of his former attorneys, who's a public defender in town, which tells you a lot here,

Speaker 1 said that Enos, quote, lived on the edge of society.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 that's what I mean. He's not a master criminal or anything like that.
You know, he works and he pays his rent, but he also, you know, drinks and smokes weed and does whatever. So, I mean, like

Speaker 1 30% of the country, basically. And just insane.
Like everybody I've ever known, essentially. All of my friends.
Real fringe guy. Yeah, all of my friends, essentially.

Speaker 1 Now, he has a friend named Colleen Davis. She's the same age, but 33 at this point.
We don't know what their relationship is.

Speaker 1 He lives with a woman, but he's out like driving around, hanging out with this Colleen Davis, who's the same age. Now,

Speaker 1 I don't know how your relationship is, but I live with a woman that I'm married to.

Speaker 1 And if I was just out hanging out with some woman, driving around with her, she wouldn't take too kindly to it, probably. So I'm not sure what the relationship is.
A little bit about Colleen here.

Speaker 1 She's had a bit of a tough time, Colleen Davis.

Speaker 1 She has three kids. She's divorced.

Speaker 1 Three kids, Jesse, Rusty, and Amanda, in that order of age and uh she moved to vermont from maine in 2001 oh her ex-husband still lives in maine and she moved to vermont um as of 2002 here uh greg's living in brattleboro colleen's living in athens vermont which is right in the same area okay um now

Speaker 1 They're friends and they hang out. And she,

Speaker 1 he, she at this point in 2002, as her boys are both teenagers, one of them's in a wheelchair. Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 And she's got like a 10-year-old daughter at the same time. She lives with these three kids in a trailer

Speaker 1 at the Tenney Mobile Home Park, which is described thusly in the Rutland newspaper, quote, a collection of five dilapidated trailers set in a meadow.

Speaker 1 That's not a trailer park. Five? Five.

Speaker 1 It's like that one number driving to Massachusetts to go to that dispensary, and I said, look over there on the side of the road, and there's like seven trailers lined up, and they're all horrifying.

Speaker 1 Half of them look like the tornado just hit them. That's where she

Speaker 1 does not make a park. No, and this trailer, quote, park,

Speaker 1 earlier in 2002 was the scene of a drug bust, a big heroin drug bust. Nice.
A couple named Jay and Lynette Howell were arrested and charged with drug trafficking.

Speaker 1 So out of five trailers, one of them's the fucking smack house. So

Speaker 1 she's not living in a terrific place. No, she's got a son that needs help.
She's got a son that needs help, three kids. She's divorced.
She's a single mom. She's having some problems.

Speaker 1 So on Monday, June 24th, 2002,

Speaker 1 Greg and Colleen are out for a drive together. Don't know what they're doing.
I have no idea. Hopefully making money to get out of that trailer.
That's all I can remember.

Speaker 1 Or at least brainstorming how to do it. Something.

Speaker 1 As they're driving along, they pick up two hitchhikers, which is smart in 2002. This isn't 1978.
This is 2002. Well, neither of them had a good idea of how to get out of this park.

Speaker 1 Maybe they can get it.

Speaker 1 Four heads is better than this. That's what I mean.
Hey, those guys look pretty smart, and they pull over. You guys got any ideas? Yeah, anybody? Yeah, no, hop in.
We're brainstorming.

Speaker 1 You want to join us? You don't have a car. Let's talk about how we can get one.

Speaker 1 So they pick up two men, two hitchhiking men here. They drive them to Bellows Falls to buy beer, and then they return to a remote spot in the woods to help one of the men.

Speaker 1 The whole point of them hitchhiking is their truck got stuck in mud on a logging trail. All right.
So So they said, hey, well,

Speaker 1 will you help me get my truck out? And Greg said, sure. And he said, they said, well, we'll buy beer.
And he said, great. Sounds awesome.
Let's go drink beer and get a truck out of the mud.

Speaker 1 That's a fun afternoon.

Speaker 1 That's a good time. It's a good country afternoon.
So they went and got beer and apparently stopped to get some weed, too.

Speaker 1 They got weed and beer and they're going out to the woods. Woods, weed, beer.
Sounds like a fun day. All right.
Small challenge. Let's go.

Speaker 1 The people they pick up are Charles Sherman, who does not go by Charles Sherman. He goes by his nickname of Poncho.
Oh, Poncho. Poncho, obviously.
You get there from Charles. Obviously.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 40-year-old fat white guy, Poncho. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's born in July 1959, so he's about 43 at this time. He has an extensive criminal record, been in prison on and off since his teenage years.
Just a complete fucking disaster.

Speaker 1 All sorts of burglary escape at one point from like he's so many charges this guy's had. I mean,

Speaker 1 He's an interesting fella here.

Speaker 1 Now, he has lived in Bellows Falls for about the last 18 years. He's unemployed at this point.
He normally works as a mechanic, and he lives with his parents and kind of runs a

Speaker 1 makeshift mechanic shop out of his parents' garage now. My God.
So unemployed is the best way to put that. He has a wife named Donna and a small son.
Okay. Okay.
And he's with his partner.

Speaker 1 This is the odd couples of everything going on. This guy living with a chick, hanging out with another chick.
This one, a 43-year-old white guy's hanging out with a guy who's 20 years old. Perfect.

Speaker 1 A 43-year-old and a 20-year-old have nothing to talk about. No.
How many 20-year-old friends do you have? Zero. Zero is the answer to that.

Speaker 1 You're not going to go for there. Yep.
Got none. He's hanging out with a guy named Michael Perez, who's born in 1982.
He's 20. Now, Perez has an interesting backstory.
He's from Brooklyn, New York.

Speaker 1 Really? Actual Brooklyn, not like, you know, Brooklyn, New Hampshire or something.

Speaker 1 He moved to Bellows Falls very recently, within the last couple months here.

Speaker 1 Before moving to Vermont, he lived in a series of homeless shelters. Oh, Mikey.
Mikey's having a hard time.

Speaker 1 He has no criminal record, though,

Speaker 1 either. Yet.
Well, we'll talk about that. Now, right after he moved here, he was beaten with a baseball bat.
By who? About the head and face. By a guy named Pat Pac-Man Williams.
Hell yeah.

Speaker 1 Anybody who goes by Pac-Man is dangerous, by the way. That's a fact.
Don't fuck with guys named Pac-Man. He's generally a bad guy.
If everyone calls him Pac-Man, that's a problem. He's tough.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, Williams apparently attacked Perez at his, or Pac-Man attacked Perez at his home after Perez called Williams' girlfriend a name. Oh.

Speaker 1 Now, this was in an argument over the said girlfriend smoking weed. I don't know who was pro-her smoking weed and who was anti-her smoking weed.
Or maybe just anti-her smoking that much weed.

Speaker 1 Either way, the girlfriend was 13 and both these guys were 20.

Speaker 1 So that I don't care for.

Speaker 1 So it's good someone got beaten about the head and face or the bat, but we're not sure who.

Speaker 1 Now, a woman from the area named Deborah Dodie said her son was Perez's best friend and had known him for years.

Speaker 1 I don't know how he knew him in New York or what, but she said Perez was a meek and mild person who wouldn't even defend himself when he was assaulted with a baseball bat. Well, it's hard.

Speaker 1 It's hard as I was going to say. I don't think that was a choice.
I think that's why the guy got a bat, so he couldn't defend himself. So I want to keep those by their bed.
That's the thing.

Speaker 1 It's hard to defend yourself against that. It's not easy.
Your body isn't set up for the defenses.

Speaker 1 Now, Sherman somehow perennial

Speaker 1 somehow befriended Perez here,

Speaker 1 even though they're 23 years apart in age, and let Perez live with him and his family in an apartment in Bellows Falls. So he lives with his parents, a 43-year-old

Speaker 1 in an apartment with his parents, invited a 20-year-old to come join the mix.

Speaker 1 This is a wacky thing. Imagine you lived in a, no, they're going to go, no one else is coming here.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And Perez always called Sherman either dad or pa, which is also weird, obviously.

Speaker 1 Short for poncho.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So Tuesday, that was Monday. They picked up.
They're supposed to do all that.

Speaker 1 Now, Tuesday, July 25th, the next day, or June 25th, 2002, the next day, there is someone scavenging for returnable bottles and cans

Speaker 1 in the woods.

Speaker 1 This is a very downtrodden neighborhood.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's what I mean. There's people that have money in Grafton.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then there's a lot of people who don't have money in the surrounding areas.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 this guy's collecting bottles and cans at this area in the woods because it's a known party spot. So, teenagers come out there, they leave cases of beer and all that kind of shit.

Speaker 1 So, it's a good place to find cans. This is the Molly Beatty State Forest.

Speaker 1 And this particular area of it is situated at the end of a narrow, winding dirt road that has some kind of small houses, trailers, deer camps.

Speaker 1 Not a very affluent area, put it that way. Now, the forest includes an old civilian conservation corps camp,

Speaker 1 which is basically two like this stone building out in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the fucking woods. And that's a great place.

Speaker 1 Great place for teenagers to party. Fuck yes.

Speaker 1 We would drive up to the Appalachian Trail head when I was a kid by me, and they have these like bunk houses there that have like, you know, cot bunk things on them.

Speaker 1 And we'd go there and smoke weed because it was a good time. You could do it in the rain or snow.
It was good. So, and that's what this is.
It's mainly teenage drinking parties.

Speaker 1 People go there to fuck and do drugs and things like that. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 The house includes a, it's a stone house with a covered breezeway in the middle and an attached stone shed.

Speaker 1 It was built in the 1930s, and it's kind of in a overgrown clearing in the middle of a dense forest is the best way to put it. So now this guy,

Speaker 1 while trying to collect cans, comes across a 1986 light blue Nissan pickup truck. Yeah.

Speaker 1 which was parked in the Mali Bedi State Forest right by this. And he can't ignore what he sees by the pickup truck.
It is not a can or a bottle, unfortunately for him.

Speaker 1 He finds dead bodies in this pickup truck.

Speaker 1 Yes,

Speaker 1 this is weird as shit.

Speaker 1 First of all, he sees Colleen Davis.

Speaker 1 She is partially inside the cab of the truck and not in the way you would think.

Speaker 1 Front side out.

Speaker 1 No, not like hanging out the window of a pet. No.
Half her body's out the small rear window.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. You're the one you open up for that little thing.
That's hard to get out of. Oh, absolutely.
Half her body is stuffed through there.

Speaker 1 She's bent at the waist

Speaker 1 through the small window. Her upper torso and head are resting on a tire in the open that's in the pickup bed in the back part of the truck.
So that's not good. She's bloody and not looking good.

Speaker 1 So he looks inside the truck because don't do that. You've seen enough.
Any cans in there? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I understand there's dead people but there might be a six pack of fucking rc in there i can grab then he looks inside the car and he sees greg enos's body

Speaker 1 his body is upside down on the driver's side of the truck under the steering wheel legs up what the fuck so this is the most the oddest way to find two bodies you can ever imagine they're the most unnatural positions it's harder to do that than sit them in the seat that's what i mean they're upside down and then she is pulled through a fucking tiny window.

Speaker 1 None of it makes sense. It's really weird.
Now, this is about 10 miles from where Colleen Davis lives, so it's pretty close to her house, actually.

Speaker 1 So this guy freaks out. It's about 12.30 p.m.
He's out for a noon stroll for some bottles and cans and comes across this.

Speaker 1 He calls the police, obviously, I would hope. And the police...
The police arrive and they say there's two different kinds of weapons used in the murders. That's what they find right away.

Speaker 1 And they say it's likely there was two attackers based on the way this all looks and went down. Because there's two people too.
It makes it easier.

Speaker 1 They also find a long tree limb

Speaker 1 with a piece of red cloth wrapped around its end resting on the back of Colleen's skull. Oh.
Up against her skull in the back of the pickup truck. The cloth was burnt.

Speaker 1 By the way, the red cloth at the end was burnt and it contained Greg Enos' blood. This red cloth.
Real weird. This is a really strange scene.

Speaker 1 Another piece of burnt red cloth, also containing Enos' blood, was found protruding from the truck's gas tank. Okay.
Oh.

Speaker 1 So someone tried to set the fucking truck on fire.

Speaker 1 It didn't work.

Speaker 1 There's evidence at the scene that, obviously, that there was fire, went out and didn't burn.

Speaker 1 So now they look around and they say that it, from the looks of everything, it was, quote, probable that Enos and Davis put up a fight and struggled with their killers, although they couldn't tell specifically.

Speaker 1 They said it's hard to believe they didn't put up some sort of resistance. Right.
So basically, whoever did this, we're looking for more than one person and possibly somebody with some injuries.

Speaker 1 Some injuries, yeah. So that's that's good to know.
Now, the police say

Speaker 1 just while this is going on, it's such a small area that tips start coming in while they're on the scene

Speaker 1 already. And people say that they saw two hitchhikers the day before on Hinkley Brook Road in Grafton, which leads here.
Right. So they're like, we saw two hitchhikers.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's how small of a town it is.

Speaker 1 There was two guys on the side of the road, maybe it was them.

Speaker 1 But they're just as much of a suspect as the person that saw them at that point, right? Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 They say this is several Grafton residents said they saw a white man who's in his 40s looking and a younger black man wearing a red t-shirt walking toward Bellows Falls on Monday.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 they said the police were almost sure they knew the identities of the hitchhikers. Again, small area.
Right.

Speaker 1 How many 40-year-old guys hang out with, how many 40-year-old white guys hang out with 20-year-old black guys in the area? Probably only these two. How many hitchhikers are identifiable, though?

Speaker 1 That's amazing. In a small town, you know how many.
That's those two guys. Right.
Any other description, it probably would have been harder. Two 30-year-old white guys, you'd go, I don't know.

Speaker 1 There's so many. Yeah, but the older white guy and the younger black guy, we only know of one of those pairings in town.

Speaker 1 one of those Burton Ernie pairings. So

Speaker 1 they said that they thought they knew that, and they were trying to locate the hitchhikers, and also the person, another person who picked them up hitchhiking along Route 121, which goes to Bellows Falls.

Speaker 1 When the press asked the police, are these two hitchhikers suspects?

Speaker 1 They said, quote, everyone is a suspect at this point. The classic line.
I'm my own suspect.

Speaker 1 You could be a suspect. Sergeant Jones could be a suspect.
Anybody's a suspect.

Speaker 1 Heads up, California. There's a statewide special election November 4th.
Active registered voters will receive a vote-by-mail ballot that they can return at a drop-off location in person or by mail.

Speaker 1 Rest assured, your vote is secure. You can even sign up to track your ballot.
Your vote is your voice. Use it.
Don't delay. Vote right away.

Speaker 1 Get more information or check your voter status at sos.ca.gov. A message from the California Secretary of State.

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Speaker 1 So injuries now, the autopsy results show that this was not an easy, this was a brutal murder. Both of these were brutal.

Speaker 1 Greg Enos had a lot of blunt force trauma to the head and he'd been stabbed 21 times. Wow.
That is a lot. I mean, they killed him three times over.
It's so rough.

Speaker 1 Colleen had no stab wounds, just a lot of blunt force trauma to the head. Beaten to death.
Her head beaten in.

Speaker 1 And then dragged through a truck window. My God.
No, I don't know if someone was attacking and she was trying to escape through the truck window.

Speaker 1 That's the thing. They're trying to figure it out.
They do find a two-pound rock at the murder scene as well. Okay.

Speaker 1 This is inside the camp, the conservatory camp, and it has human blood on it.

Speaker 1 I bet somebody was beaten with that. That's yeah, blunt force drama, two-pound rock with blood on it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Colleen Davis died from a fractured skull, they think.

Speaker 1 That could have come from a rock or a heavy stick, they said. The heavy stick being the one leaning against her head.
So like, she's definitely hit with this, we think.

Speaker 1 Now, in a weird thing here, a logger, they talked to a logger, a nearby logger, guy who, you know, cuts down trees and pulls them down and shit.

Speaker 1 He said he pulled a vehicle out of a muddy ditch in the state forest Monday morning and received a shotgun as payment from the two men.

Speaker 1 Like they actually gave it to him or they turned it? They gave it it to him. No, no, they gave it.
They didn't have any cash. So they said, we can pay you in a shotgun, which again,

Speaker 1 try that shit in Queens. You know what I mean? I'll pay you.

Speaker 1 I'm not mother. I want money from you.
I'm not putting my fingerprints on. Hell no.
No fucking way.

Speaker 1 So the logger said that the two men's green Ford Explorer was stuck in a muddy four-wheeler trail in the forest up near the stone shelter, which is where the bodies were found.

Speaker 1 He said that he had pulled the explorer out sometime between 7.30 and 8.30 a.m.

Speaker 1 He said he drove his skidder past the stone shelter where Enos' truck was found several hours later, because it's Enos' own truck.

Speaker 1 At the time, however, he didn't see a pickup truck, so they weren't there yet.

Speaker 1 Blogger said that, you know, he's happy to talk to anybody about it. He said the shotgun he gave to his boss in exchange for the $80 that the guys were supposed to pay for the tow.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah, he said one of the men gave his boss his phone number so he could redeem the gun later when he had cash.
So now you're using tow trucks like a pawn shop. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You're in hock for this fucking tow job. Now,

Speaker 1 there's a news bulletin that police are warning that these killings could be random in nature, and they say residents should lock their doors, don't let strangers in,

Speaker 1 hunker down, basically. We don't know.
They're crazy people out there. Nobody in the town of Grafton gives a singular solitary fuck about this, by the way.
They're not worried at all. Nope.

Speaker 1 Well, listen to why. This is some cocky shit here.
The newspaper, they go and talk to people at a local cafe in Grafton, and they were just talking about how hot it was. It's 90 degrees out.
It sucks.

Speaker 1 They didn't believe, they said that they were concerned about murders, but, quote, they didn't believe that someone from Grafton had been murdered, so it's fine. They didn't care.

Speaker 1 Literally, they're like, well, it's not a local person that was murdered. So, I mean, they're local, but not super local to right here.
Yeah, it's imported, so we don't care.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's imported from four miles away. Much different.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 So they said that, quote, one guy said, the people told me not to be, or the police told me not to be afraid. They don't know who it is, he said in the afternoon.
In other words, don't be afraid.

Speaker 1 We don't know those people who were murdered, so you're fine. They couldn't possibly murder you.
They murdered those people. Okay.

Speaker 1 Now, people who knew about, they found out that this is all going while the police are on the scene. This spreads like wildfire.
The newspapers are talking to people in cafes or talking to cops.

Speaker 1 They get the logger involved all while they're processing the crime scene. Wow.
Neighbors of Colleen Davis at the trailer park said that she was a good woman and a good mother.

Speaker 1 And they were very sad about it.

Speaker 1 Davis's ex-husband, they got a hold of to make sure it wasn't him that did that. Over in Maine, yeah.
He's been in Maine the whole time. He went to work the day before.
Impossible for him to get back.

Speaker 1 He said he was shocked by the news and was coming from Maine to see his kids. Yeah.

Speaker 1 What about Greg's wife, who's got to be furious that he's out there running around with some young lady? He's not married

Speaker 1 and has no kids. He just lives with us.
Okay, got it.

Speaker 1 Now, the neighbors at the time were caring for the three kids, for Colleen's kids, including a boy in a wheelchair. The neighbors said that the children were very upset with the death of their mother.

Speaker 1 No shit.

Speaker 1 Probably. Yeah, okay.
Now, the police are still on the scene, mind you, okay?

Speaker 1 Still processing. It's a long day of processing the scene out in the 90-degree heat.
And some more people show up. And in addition to laggers and witnesses and coffee shop patrons,

Speaker 1 two people show up. Well, actually, four people show up.

Speaker 1 It is Michael Perez,

Speaker 1 Charles Poncho Sherman,

Speaker 1 Sherman's wife, Donna,

Speaker 1 and their young son all show up to the crime scene.

Speaker 1 Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 Sherman. Sherman is described as a short, stocky man dressed in a dirty t-shirt and camouflage pants and walking with a heavy limp and complaining loudly of pain in his back.
That's what he shows up.

Speaker 1 Oh, my.

Speaker 1 Oh, my back hurts. Oh, Jesus, boy, what's happening? Oh, Spanika.
Oh, boy, I'll tell you what. This is wild.
Why are you here? How about that?

Speaker 1 Perez was dressed in dark sweatpants and a black World Wrestling Federation t-shirt. Nice.
Excellent.

Speaker 1 These guys are all class.

Speaker 1 And Sherman was wearing, by the way, his dirty t-shirt was a University of Massachusetts t-shirt, which I'm sure he's an alumni of.

Speaker 1 He's a big booster. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 By the way, Sherman has scratches all on his forehead that look like fingernail marks,

Speaker 1 which is not great for him.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 they just show up. And they're like, we'd love to talk to you guys, especially because we heard you guys were hitchhiking yesterday in this area.
That you're here. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now, they said they came to get their pickup truck, which was stuck in the mud nearby. So apparently, they got pulled out by that tow truck, then got stuck again.

Speaker 1 That's what happened to that man. You got to have that four-wheel drive, man.
Get out of here. Yeah, can you drag us out of the mud when you drag us, please?

Speaker 1 Don't just leave us in another spot of mud. So they said they were there to get their truck.

Speaker 1 And Perez stated initially that he and Sherman had walked home after their truck got stuck. And then later on, he said, oh, I mean, we caught a ride to Bellows Falls in a dark brown or black pickup.

Speaker 1 I don't remember. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. He said when he left the forest, he was driven by his female friend with Perez and the woman's son in the back seat.
Okay. Now,

Speaker 1 Sherman, after a minute of this, talking to the cops, gets pissed off and says, I'm leaving. Let's go.
I'm leaving. All of us were all leaving.

Speaker 1 And when they pulled away, they said he was shaking violently. Poncho Sherman.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Your truck got stuck. What are you shaking violently against? Why are you being so weird?

Speaker 1 So obviously, they're the top suspects. They're like, yeah, keep an eye on those two as they drive away.
So they follow them. And after a minute, they end up arresting them.
They go arrest them.

Speaker 1 Not for murder quite yet, but just to hold on to them for suspicion of some things here.

Speaker 1 They found out that both pieces of cloth, the red cloth around the stick and in the gas tank, were both part of a red fat Albert t-shirt. The old Bill Cosby character.

Speaker 1 Nice. Fat Albert.

Speaker 1 That, by the way, Michael Perez had been seen wearing on Monday. Oh.
A red fat, which a red fat Albert t-shirt. Oh, it sticks out.
It sticks out.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he might as well be wearing like a fucking chiquita, like one of those fruit baskets on his head, like Carmen Miranda. You're going to get noticed in that.

Speaker 1 What was the guy's name that had the beanie cap pulled down to his chin? I forget his name. He was the fun one.
Oh, yeah. Is that Mushmouth? I think it was Mushmouth.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, you can't get anything out through that hat. That's

Speaker 1 I think that's why they called him Mushmouth. I think so.
So at first, neither of them will talk. First of all,

Speaker 1 let's say this. Have we ever had two bigger dipshits? Let's say they did this.

Speaker 1 What kind of a dipshit

Speaker 1 kills people, then shows up at the crime scene where the bodies are while it's full of cops? Just chalk crime scene investigators. You have to be the biggest fucking moron.

Speaker 1 I know they like to return to crime scenes, not while it's being processed, you fucking idiots. What are you doing?

Speaker 1 yeah have we ever had anyone this dumb in the history of no small-town murder wow so neither one of them will one of them will talk at first uh-huh they both say they don't want to talk then perez

Speaker 1 contacts the vermont state police detectives and offers to talk to them about the about what happened if they pretend to arrest him

Speaker 1 He's already in jail. Oh, okay.
He's sitting in jail, but to pretend to arrest him in jail again and take him like to be processed again. That way Sherman wouldn't know that he's telling on him.

Speaker 1 He said, I don't want Poncho to know. So if you arrest me and then I have to go with you, then it looks better than if you just pick me up and it looks like I'm telling.

Speaker 1 Then it could look like y'all beat it out of me. Yeah, so he was quote unquote arrested

Speaker 1 at the Rockingham State Police Barracks in New Hampshire for some reason.

Speaker 1 And, okay, now both men have different stories. Completely different stories of what happened.
One implicating the other?

Speaker 1 You could say that.

Speaker 1 Weird, right? Now, here's what we know. All four people have been drinking a bunch of beer that night and we believe smoking weed.

Speaker 1 Although later on, tests will come back and there's no weed in Mike and Greg and fucking Colleen's system.

Speaker 1 But that's what we are sure that weed was involved. Someone had weed in the mix.
Now,

Speaker 1 they apparently we know that they offered Greg and Colleen offered these two a ride to Bellows Falls, where Sherman owns a mechanic shop.

Speaker 1 But they stopped at a gas station on the Red Light Hill area in the Red Light Hill area where they purchased some beer and cigarettes. And then Sherman also made a stop to buy some weed.

Speaker 1 The four discussed a place to hang out and party and decided, hey, that part of the state forest is a good place to party, and I'll help you get the truck out.

Speaker 1 So we'll party, we'll get the truck out, we'll make a night of it, basically.

Speaker 1 When they arrived there, they drank...

Speaker 1 drank beer and smoked weed for a minute. And

Speaker 1 then Enos and Sherman went off into the woods to try to talk about the truck and left Perez and Colleen Davis sitting on a picnic table right that we know okay

Speaker 1 now we know also when they got back

Speaker 1 there was they were in the middle of some sort of sexual act who now Colleen and Greg Colleen and no Colleen and and Mike and Perez the 20 year old

Speaker 1 now

Speaker 1 um we can surmise it's probably not voluntary based on the fact that it's in a picnic table and her boyfriend's coming right back. So let's just say that.

Speaker 1 Now, Perez says it was consensual sex.

Speaker 1 And Sherman says he came back and Perez was raping her. Okay.
These are the two stories. Let's get into it.
Now, Perez gives five different interviews, and they're all different. Oh.

Speaker 1 So this is kind of a mess here. In his first two interviews, he denied knowing anything about the two murders.
Anything. Anything.

Speaker 1 He said, quote, I didn't kill those people. I did no harm, physical harm toward those people.

Speaker 1 And he said, I'm telling what Charles Sherman did up there, I'm telling you truthfully, I wasn't going to tell you. He said, I'm trying to remember everything about that day.

Speaker 1 So they were telling him, I don't think you're telling us the whole truth.

Speaker 1 And he said, I don't know. That's all I got.
Then later on that night, he gives another statement.

Speaker 1 He said, yeah, we caught a ride in the pickup truck. I didn't murder anybody, though.
He said, after we caught a ride, Sherman, Poncho, got drunk and went to sleep.

Speaker 1 He said that on that day, Sherman was wearing the red shirt, not him. Oh.
Even though everybody saw him in it. He said Sherman was wearing the red shirt and then he wore a white shirt.

Speaker 1 And he denied that he and Sherman had a knife in their truck that day, despite testimony from several people saying they saw a knife in the truck that day.

Speaker 1 Several days later, he tells police a different story. Oh.

Speaker 1 Now he knows everything.

Speaker 1 Yeah. He said that Sherman killed both victims.
He went crazy. I seen it.

Speaker 1 He said he recounted this story. He said he and Sherman were very drunk.
They were joyriding in the state forest. Let's get drunk and ride around in the woods is a weird thing to do.

Speaker 1 Very rural.

Speaker 1 And then they got stuck in the mud. They started walking back to Bellows Falls and caught a ride with Greg and Colleen.

Speaker 1 After stopping to get beer and snacks, they all decided to return to the state forest to party.

Speaker 1 At some point, Enos and Sherman left the campsite to look at the stuck truck, and Perez claims that he had consensual sex with Colleen Davis on the picnic table

Speaker 1 while they were gone.

Speaker 1 He said in the middle of this, Greg and Poncho returned, which angered Greg Enos. Okay.

Speaker 1 Because I guess they're seeing each other.

Speaker 1 Okay, so that's, he said, that pissed him off. He said that Perez said he calmed things down

Speaker 1 somehow. I don't know how you calmed someone down from that.

Speaker 1 Diplomacy. Yeah.
Wow.

Speaker 1 This guy, he should really be like an ambassador or some sort of like hostage negotiator or something because, wow, if you can talk someone down from being pissed about fucking their girlfriend at the picnic table while you're checking

Speaker 1 their girlfriend. Yeah.
Well, he's saying it's consensual. I'm just going by his story right now.
He comes back and sees that. He gets a little mad, but then he's like, oh, I guess it's all fine.
And

Speaker 1 they all started drinking again. I see it your way now.
Have a beer. Okay, fine.
Yeah, you know what? I am getting a little too up in arms about this shit.

Speaker 1 So he said when Enos and Davis, Greg and Colleen, got ready to leave,

Speaker 1 he said, Greg called him the N-word. Oh.

Speaker 1 And this angered

Speaker 1 not Perez, but Poncho Sherman. Yeah, he'll stand for no racism around that.
He will not have, well, actually, he said, quote, that's my N-word. You don't call him that.
That's literally what he said.

Speaker 1 That's what Perez today said.

Speaker 1 So this was not some sort of justice he was standing up for. He goes, I call him the N-word.
You don't, which is crazy.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 So apparently Sherman and Greg started arguing at that point. Poncho and Greg are arguing.

Speaker 1 Perez said he was frozen, didn't know what to do at that point, just frozen. Yeah.
Okay. Now, according to Perez, Sherman then grabbed a stick.
out of Perez's hands.

Speaker 1 He said he was holding the big stick, just, you know, leaning on it. Yeah.
He said he grabbed it and hit Enos with it, smacked Greg in the head with it.

Speaker 1 Sherman then tried to move Enos' body and asked Perez for help.

Speaker 1 So then, as this was going on, Greg came to, Greg Enos came to, and ran, sprang up from his feet and ran to his truck.

Speaker 1 So Sherman chased him and stabbed him, he said.

Speaker 1 And Perez said, I didn't even know Sherman had a knife.

Speaker 1 So he said, eventually,

Speaker 1 they said that all of this happened. The truck was too bloody to drive.
There's blood all over the fucking thing. So Sherman asked Perez to help him move Enos' body into the truck.

Speaker 1 So Sherman told, he said he then, Sherman told Colleen Davis to get into the truck, which she did. But she tried to climb out the back window.

Speaker 1 to escape, and that's when Sherman hit her with a stick and a beer bottle. This is while Perez left and went inside the camp building there.
Well,

Speaker 1 he's beating her to death. I don't want to see that.
I can't watch this.

Speaker 1 He said later on, Sherman came into the camp building, threw his shirt and keys into the fire.

Speaker 1 What your keys into the fire would do. That's not real bright.

Speaker 1 And told Perez to wrap his shirt around the tree limb and light it. So Sherman lit the shirt, stuck it into the truck, and then they left the scene, thinking the truck would burn and explode.
Okay.

Speaker 1 That's the story here.

Speaker 1 Wow. I mean, that's.

Speaker 1 The fire did nothing. It literally went right out.
Yeah. You could still tell it was a red shirt.
I mean, it went right out.

Speaker 1 Clothes are fire retardant. That's the thing.
They're not made to. Yeah, they don't just go up.

Speaker 1 There's a reason you don't burst into flames every time you pass a fire because your clothes are not meant to do that. Exactly.
If they were.

Speaker 1 Fleece onesies we put on very small children. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Anybody. Those go up.
Anybody with fleece on in high school, they were getting a lighter to their shit, and it would go poof like a big cotton ball, poof, and they wouldn't even know what happened.

Speaker 1 They'd look around like, what was that? They could smell something, but they didn't know what happened.

Speaker 1 So, anyway, then Perez says, I'll even lead you to evidence. I'll take you there.
So, he said, I know where we discarded our shit.

Speaker 1 Perez said this. Perez said it.
I'll show you everything. So they go, great, get in the car.
So en route to this, with Perez in the back seat, he repeats portions of his story.

Speaker 1 He reiterated that Poncho Sherman became angry when Greg Enist used a racial slur and stated by saying, that's my N-word, not yours. Oh, boy.
Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 Wow, that is wild.

Speaker 1 Perez then indicated he was scared Sherman would kill him. Yeah.
Even though he's done nothing but be nice to him and take him into his home. Now he's afraid he'll kill him.

Speaker 1 He told police that he and Sherman filled their clothes and shoes with rocks and threw them into the river

Speaker 1 so they'd sink. He also said that they had planned to go to the state forest the following day, which they did.

Speaker 1 This was why they came back there was to remove the tree limb and pretend to discover the bodies. Oh my God.
They showed up to discover the bodies and instead already been discovered.

Speaker 1 There's a hundred cops there.

Speaker 1 Take it easy. Christopher.
Idiots, Columbus, we already got this. Fucking idiot.
Someone already found the Mississippi. We got this.

Speaker 1 Holy shit. Calm down, DeSoto.
We would have found it eventually. This is unbelievable.
So, this is crazy.

Speaker 1 The dumbest two people ever. He also repeated that Sherman was very drunk that day and falling down due to an intoxicated state, but still sober enough to murder, apparently.
What the fuck?

Speaker 1 He told them of some of their clothing and where the burnt clothing was, took them to the fire, took them to the river where they dumped their shit and all that. Several days later,

Speaker 1 he then says that now he has a different story.

Speaker 1 He says that Sherman told him, Perez, to hit Colleen Davis with a tree limb.

Speaker 1 Oh. Rather than Sherman coming over when she was trying to get out the back window,

Speaker 1 he told him to.

Speaker 1 Sherman told Perez to. He said, but he pretended to.

Speaker 1 He said he didn't. He said he was hitting the truck bed, but not actually like a wrestling.
Like when a guy's laying on the ground, you hit him with a chair. You really hit the ring most of the time.

Speaker 1 He's wearing the right shirt for this. It's perfect.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So that's what he said he did. He said that first he attacked Enos with a tree limb, then a knife after that.
He said Sherman forced him to hit Colleen Davis as she

Speaker 1 laid there stunned in Enos' truck after Sherman had already hit her hard in the head. He said he only pretended to hit her and he hit the headbed of the pickup truck.

Speaker 1 And that he said that if he had helped kill Enos and Davis, he would have fled, not stayed in Vermont. Because you know I'm telling the truth because I'm still here.

Speaker 1 He said, quote, I would have left. Trust me.
I would have, yeah, I trust you. Sounds great.
You're very trustworthy.

Speaker 1 You may or may not have raped a woman. I'm not trusting you for anything.
Don't ever say, trust me, in a police interrogation. They don't trust you.

Speaker 1 That's why you're in the chair because they don't trust you. If they trusted you, you wouldn't be sitting there.

Speaker 1 Trust me, I would have left. I didn't know.

Speaker 1 I know I didn't do it. I know I'm going to jail.

Speaker 1 If I have to get 30, 40, 50 years for lying to you all, not telling you that day, I'll do 50, 60 years for that, you know, because that's a crime I did. I did not murder them.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to jail for that.

Speaker 1 I'll go to jail for lying. But not that.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Go ahead and book me on that. I'll do anything for jail, but I won't do that.

Speaker 1 So at one point,

Speaker 1 he then says that Sherman made him carry Greg Enes' body and put it back into the pickup truck, where then they tried to burn the two bodies and it never caught fire.

Speaker 1 He said they left the state forest on foot carrying two 12-packs of Budweiser. All-class, covered in

Speaker 1 blood and Budweiser. Then they stopped to wash the blood off Sherman's body with

Speaker 1 beer. They used beer to cleanse him.

Speaker 1 They christened him in beer at this point. Oh, my God.
This blow for you. My God.
None of the stories mention a rock, by the way. The rock never comes into play.
Oh, well, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 So then they go to Sherman and they go, well, he's singing and he's saying this and this and this. And Sherman goes, well, I better tell you my side of it then.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 we heard how you were bathed in the

Speaker 1 bud. Yeah,

Speaker 1 bathed in the bud of the lamb. And we said, that's no good.

Speaker 1 So he, after speaking with a public defender, decided to talk, which is the opposite of what normally happens. You talk to a lawyer, they tell you to shut the fuck up.

Speaker 1 This lawyer said, this guy's putting you in. That's the facts, unless you refute them.
You better hurry up.

Speaker 1 So he didn't want to talk, but after his wife and son came to the barracks and spoke with him, he decided to give a statement.

Speaker 1 He said that he blamed the Perez, the murders on Perez, saying that he was a, quote, sex fiend. He's a fiend, this guy,

Speaker 1 and that his behavior started the fights that led to the murder.

Speaker 1 That's what he said. He said that, you know, Mr.

Speaker 1 Perez had gone to, he said, hours before this all happened, Perez had gone to pick up the knife that he had sharpened, and that Perez was aware that he had the knife in his possession, meaning Sherman.

Speaker 1 It's a six or seven inch folding knife with a wooden handle. That's a big fucking folding knife.
It's a nasty one. That's nasty.
You don't want to get stabbed 21 times with that.

Speaker 1 He said later, after Enos and Davis had picked them up,

Speaker 1 gave them a ride, that's when Perez got in a fight with Enos,

Speaker 1 and that's when Perez told Sherman, Give me the knife, give me the knife. And Sherman said, Okay, and handed it over.
That's what he said.

Speaker 1 Later,

Speaker 1 he said that he saw,

Speaker 1 he said, this all started with, he saw Perez sexually assaulting Colleen Davis. He said this was after, though, not before.
That didn't start it. He got in a fight with Enos

Speaker 1 besides this.

Speaker 1 He said that he walked up and saw

Speaker 1 Perez raping her, basically, and told Sherman, quote, have some too.

Speaker 1 Like he had a six-foot son out there or some shit. Wow.

Speaker 1 You know, to join in. Hey, join the rape.

Speaker 1 So he said, Sherman said he dropped his pants and, quote, feigned that Colleen was giving him oral sex at that point. Just pretended it like a Cinemax porn.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 The head's going back and forth, but there's, that's what he said. Horse shit.

Speaker 1 The worst lies. They're the dumbest two murderers who've ever existed.
They're giving a story that is impossible to have happened.

Speaker 1 Impossible and both, both impossible and highly self-incriminating at the same time. The dumbest stories ever.
I'm going to make shit up that almost makes it sound worse.

Speaker 1 It's pretty obvious what happened right yeah it seems like it yeah it seems like they went to look at the truck perez was raping the colleen they came out a fight started sherman fucking whacked this guy because that's his son basically that's his n-word yeah so yeah that's what it seems like that's what happened so or sherman was right i don't even know so in both everybody's version even perez's version perez was having some kind of sexual whatever first with her right

Speaker 1 um so yeah he said that long story short, Perez attacked Enos unprovoked, first hitting him with a stick, then asking for a knife.

Speaker 1 Then Perez started sexually assaulting Davis repeatedly, and she began screaming. Perez then tried to force Colleen to perform oral sex on Poncho, Sherman,

Speaker 1 but the police also said Sherman's account was, quote, fragmented.

Speaker 1 He said the next thing Sherman remembers is Perez hitting Davis in the head with a piece of wood.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 He also instructed, he said that when Perez told him to smack Colleen Davis with a large wooden stick, he pretended to do so, hitting the truck and made it look like they both had the exact same story of faking to hit her and hitting the truck.

Speaker 1 Someone had to hit her because her fucking skull is bashed in. Yeah.

Speaker 1 She's dead from it. Yeah.
Yeah. He said while this is happening, Colleen was alive and begging for mercy.
So cold-blooded. These two are cold.

Speaker 1 He also recalled, quote, trying to stuff the body back in the truck and couldn't get it in there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because that window's too fucking small. It's too small.

Speaker 1 This is crazy. He said that Perez hit him twice on the back, Sherman says, too.
Hit him twice in the back, threatened to rape members of his family and kill them. I'll go home and rape your mom.

Speaker 1 We'll go to your apartment. I'll rape your mom in front of you and kill you and your dad.
That's what he said. Okay.

Speaker 1 So when the police asked Sherman what prompted the violence, he said, quote, Sherman's, he said that Mike Perez is a a sex freak. That's what did it.
He just snapped. He had to have some, yeah.

Speaker 1 After the murders, they hitchhiked to Bellows Falls where they were eventually picked up by one of Sherman's friends.

Speaker 1 They hid some beer in Grafton Village along with the knife, which police found thanks to Perez's direction. So they have the murder weapon now, too.
Wow, yeah. So they're under arrest, obviously.

Speaker 1 Now, they're both being held on a million-dollar bond at this point. Yeah, they don't have that.
Yeah, they definitely don't have that shit for sure.

Speaker 1 They don't know who did it. They're both blaming each other and they're both just as plausible.
So they're both charged with aiding in the commission of an aggravated murder.

Speaker 1 So if you charge them both with that, it doesn't matter who did it, basically. Okay.
They can both be found guilty of aiding each other, essentially. So that's how that works.

Speaker 1 It doesn't matter who inflicted the fatal blows. Right.
And very much like the old robbery of a gas station thing, if somebody dies in the commission of it, whatever.

Speaker 1 The point is, you both said you were there where two people are dead.

Speaker 1 That's the problem. Whoever

Speaker 1 doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 Whether you were looking at the bubble yum or you were at the counter holding the gun, it doesn't fucking matter.

Speaker 1 You came in with that in town. So that's exactly what it is.
So

Speaker 1 that's how this went. Now, during their arraignments, family and friends of Sherman and Perez and Greg Enos were all at the courthouse together

Speaker 1 having a huge verbal shouting, cursing arguments in the courtroom. Boy, oh, boy.
That is messy. Swearing at each other, screaming.

Speaker 1 They had to, like, the bailiffs had to come in and calm everybody down. God damn it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is a lot. Now, the lawyer for Sherman during his arraignment said that

Speaker 1 essentially that the weight of everything is on Perez. He said the proof is lacking in several respects.
They don't know who killed anyone.

Speaker 1 It's a fundamental weakness in the state's case, not a sign of strength. They don't know what happened.
Sure.

Speaker 1 He said his client and his client's wife only had a monthly income of $600, which sounds like

Speaker 1 social services type shit. That's like welfare.
$300 a piece. Yeah, that's that's not good.

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Speaker 1 And there was no way that he could raise a million and a half dollar bond, which is what they're asking for.

Speaker 1 They cited Sherman's extensive criminal records, including a conviction for escape, numerous violations of parole and probation, and five failures to appear in court on motor vehicle violations.

Speaker 1 They're like, he doesn't show up when it's a fucking 10 miles over the limit. You think he's going to show up for this?

Speaker 1 He's a smidge unreliable, and he doesn't have money, so let's keep him. He's poor and unreliable.
He's getting held on to. So they also

Speaker 1 went

Speaker 1 to their home and they seized couch covers and a knife sheath from

Speaker 1 the Sherman apartment there, apparently.

Speaker 1 They also searched Sherman's auto repair garage, which is

Speaker 1 his parents' fucking garage. Yeah.

Speaker 1 The front of which is on the first floor of a four-story building on Rockingham Street, according to the application. That's where they seized six couch and cushion covers.

Speaker 1 And they said that Perez and Sherman returned to the business after the killings, and that's why they're there. Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 They said Sherman allegedly put his pants on the couch before he and Perez later weighted their pants and shoes with rocks and threw them into the river. So they're hoping there's some blood on there.

Speaker 1 They're seeking blood evidence transferred so they can get some DNA out of this. By the way, the county attorney might recuse himself from this case.

Speaker 1 Why is there a conflict of interest here? Because Michael Perez is both a victim in another crime being beaten to shit with a baseball bat. Oh, right.

Speaker 1 So he's the victim in a crime that this prosecutor is prosecuting. And he's a client here.
He can't be a victim

Speaker 1 and somebody I'm prosecuting at the same time. It's a conflict of interest, obviously.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, he said that the office was discussing whether or not to remove itself from this because he's prosecuting the aggravated assault with a deadly weapon against Pac-Man Williams

Speaker 1 here there. So they said that this Williams is charged with beating Michael Perez with a baseball bat on May 17th.
So it's

Speaker 1 less than fucking two months before, a month before the murder.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so that's what's going on here.

Speaker 1 The guy is also charged with, there's another guy involved also who's charged with aiding the commission of a felony for helping this guy cover it up and possession of marijuana.

Speaker 1 Now, the guy who Pac-Man, who beat up Michael Perez, there's a lesson in this.

Speaker 1 If you are going to beat someone within an inch of their life with a baseball bat, make sure they commit a murder right after that because

Speaker 1 they're much less sympathetic at that point.

Speaker 1 They end up reaching a deal with him where he pleads no contest to a charge of simple assault. Simp with the bat.
Which is down from aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. Nearly attempted murder.

Speaker 1 He's sentenced to 216 days in prison and was given credit for all 216 days he'd already served and they released him. Time served.
Fuck off. Have a great day.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 The guy you beat up kind of deserved it. You just got him early.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we're not going to go out there and go, this poor man, he beat with the bat. Oh, the poor man who's up for two murder charges? Yeah.

Speaker 1 So the murder trial, the judge judge for the murder trials might also recuse himself as well. What in the fuck? Crazy.
He said the appearance of impropriety was a concern here

Speaker 1 because a key witness in the case is his son's supervisor. This is what happens in these small towns.
Yeah, too many. Everyone knows each other.
That's the problem.

Speaker 1 They said no one doubts Judge Hudson's integrity and ability to be fair. Nonetheless, all agree that the appearance of impropriety is a concern.

Speaker 1 And the concern is heightened by the seriousness of the charges and the likelihood that the judge will be called upon to make preliminary rulings on admissibility, which may turn in large part on the credibility of

Speaker 1 his son's supervisor. His son's a cop, and this is his supervisor is his lieutenant who's going to be here.

Speaker 1 They said Lieutenant Raymond Keefe is a patrol commander of the Bethel Barracks of the Vermont State Police, and Trooper Eric Hudson, Judge Hudson's son, is a direct

Speaker 1 subordinate of his. At the time of the murder, Keith was a detective with the Bureau of Criminal Investigation and therefore would be testifying in this trial.

Speaker 1 Well, then if your dad's already a judge, maybe pick a different profession, man, because this is going to fuck a lot of things.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, you should have went to law school, apparently, like your dad, but

Speaker 1 so in the same town, go to a different town. You got to go somewhere else.
So the murder, they also aren't going to challenge statements made.

Speaker 1 Everyone's expecting them to challenge to have their statements thrown out. Yeah.
Because they're both highly incriminating.

Speaker 1 But neither of them challenged. The deadline to challenge the statements comes and goes, and I guess they're fine with letting them in.

Speaker 1 Now, Michael Perez is going to go to trial here. Really? He's charged with aiding and aggravating an aggravated murder.
And

Speaker 1 they talk about how

Speaker 1 he told the cops that everyone was smoking weed, but they said blood tests on Enos and Davis found no evidence of marijuana.

Speaker 1 So they didn't share the weed with them, apparently. Right.
Now, they bring Charles Sherman in to try to make him testify. All right.
He instead, they said,

Speaker 1 basically stood in court in leg chains and didn't speak. He didn't even take the witness stand, but stood on the far side of the courtroom close to Michael Perez, but they never looked at each other.

Speaker 1 The lead investigator in the murder case identified Sherman, looked,

Speaker 1 Sherman then looked at Perez, but Perez kept his eyes off of Sherman. So he was in there just to pop up so they can go, that guy showed up, and then they leave.

Speaker 1 It was him and him.

Speaker 1 Michael Perez testifies.

Speaker 1 What is he going to say? He recounts a different version that he's told again. Five fucking versions he's already told.

Speaker 1 The state introduces various statements that he made to police in addition to other evidence.

Speaker 1 Several witnesses also testify that Perez told him that he raped Colleen before the killing and that he, quote, beat the dude and stabbed the bitch 57 times. That's what he told me.
What the fuck?

Speaker 1 Yeah, so he's going around bragging about how he raped and murdered people, which is a weird thing to brag about.

Speaker 1 Very odd here. Now, the verdict comes in: 18 hours of deliberation.

Speaker 1 I don't know what took so long. In any one of his six statements, he did bad shit.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 he has six statements, and all of them are very incriminating.

Speaker 1 Exactly. He is found guilty of aiding in the commission of aggravated second-degree murder.

Speaker 1 Sentencing comes around. You, sir, Hey, fuck off.
Life without parole for Perez. Okay.

Speaker 1 21, life without parole for him.

Speaker 1 Deservable, though. Yeah.
I mean, that's crazy. Next up, for Charles Sherman's trial, they're trying to get his wife, Donna, to testify against him, and she's claiming marital privilege.
Okay.

Speaker 1 She's saying, no, I don't want to do it. So they're trying to force her to testify about what she knew when she went with her husband to the forest the day after all this happened.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 They said

Speaker 1 the question that he wants to have Donna answer is, at the time you went to the state forest to retrieve your husband's truck, had you been provided an explanation of how the truck had got stuck?

Speaker 1 Now, according to the records, Donna Sherman claims marital privilege, but the privilege is not a blanket. protection.
And some questions about her knowledge have been asked and answered.

Speaker 1 According to Vermont law, marital privilege extends only to private and confidential conversations between married couples and does not cover a spouse's observations or knowledge from other sources.

Speaker 1 So if he came home with blood all over himself, that's not marital privilege. But if he came home and they went in the bedroom together and he said, I killed a lady, that's marital privilege.

Speaker 1 Yes. You can say what you've seen

Speaker 1 or heard, but you can't say, well, anything that's not hearsay, obviously. But that's it.
So

Speaker 1 anyway,

Speaker 1 she refused to answer these during her deposition. So they're trying to make her testify.

Speaker 1 In the end, she's going to have to testify a little bit. So Charles says, fuck it, and pleads guilty.
He's going to, okay, yeah, he's going to plead.

Speaker 1 What she's going to say is going to make me look bad.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 she probably has the goods on him.

Speaker 1 And either way, he's in a pile of shit, and this guy got life without. We got enough evidence on you.
It's not going to go well. So in open court, he says that he handed Perez his knife.

Speaker 1 He said, it was my knife, but I gave it to Perez. And Perez and Enos fought there.

Speaker 1 He said that during the bludgeoning of Colleen Davis, he was less specific, but admitted to, quote, acting with wanton disregard for her life, but not bashing her fucking skull in.

Speaker 1 He turned and spoke directly to the two families, which had attended every day of the trial as well, and talked to them. We'll talk about what he says

Speaker 1 during sentencing here.

Speaker 1 The plea agreement states that he and the state are agreeing that he'd plead guilty to two counts of aiding in second-degree murder and that the charge of aiding in aggravated second-degree murder would be dismissed.

Speaker 1 That's the life without charge.

Speaker 1 So they agreed to waive a pre-sentence investigation and stipulated that the pleas would result in his violating his probationary status in another unrelated matter, because of course he's on probation.

Speaker 1 That sentence would be revoked and an underlying suspended sentence would be imposed to serve and would run concurrently with his new sentences.

Speaker 1 Also, he waives the right to appeal and the right to post-conviction relief, including relief set forth in multiple sections, except a good faith claim alleging ineffective assistance of counsel or prosecutorial misconduct.

Speaker 1 It's the only thing he can appeal on. Okay.

Speaker 1 So they explain the factual scenario or the basis for the pleas was that they were together before the deaths and were together afterwards, and so they should, they're both charged.

Speaker 1 But he claims that he acknowledged in his statement that he was the one who had taken the knife from this other residence, not Perez, but he provided the knife to Perez, and it was was Perez who was sexually assaulting or raping Colleen.

Speaker 1 So anyway, his attorney explained that from his perspective, meaning his clients, one of the key considerations was always that he's maintained and will continue to maintain that Michael Perez did the actual killing.

Speaker 1 He's pleading on an aiding theory to second-degree murder on the notion that his actions constituted wanton disregard.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 and also that he pulled his pants down. He said he was told by that, told by Michael Perez to pull his pants down to, quote, come get some too.

Speaker 1 And that he was afraid of Michael Perez the whole time.

Speaker 1 He said he admits that he helped move the body, but it was all out of fear. And it was also he feigned hitting Davis in the head to placate Mr.
Perez, who was ordering him to.

Speaker 1 Because when a 20-year-old tells you what to do when you're 45,

Speaker 1 you fucking do it. I go, what is that? What the back of my fucking hand? Shut up.
What are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 Jesus, get some life experience and some anger built up before you come at me with orders, motherfuckers. You got it, young man.
I'll do whatever you do. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So sentencing comes around. Victim impact statements here.
Greg's father, Ken, he testifies during this.

Speaker 1 There's a letter from the 14-year-old daughter of Colleen Davis saying not only did she lose her mother, but her best friend and would never have her mother's help growing up.

Speaker 1 I'm taking a long journey alone, she said. There's no greater pain than losing your mother.
Jesus. The letter was read by her aunt in court.

Speaker 1 Greg's mother, Elaine, said Greg cared for people, especially people down on their luck. He was like that.
Then he showed a photograph and said, I'm Greg's mother, and this is my son, my only son.

Speaker 1 I wanted you to see him when you weren't drunk.

Speaker 1 She said, she said that he'd been beaten in the head, stabbed 20 times in the heart and chest, his face sliced open, and his legs broken when they stuffed him into the truck before they tried to set it on fire.

Speaker 1 They said this was animalistic, a barbaric massacre. Please tell me why and for what purpose.
I still don't understand.

Speaker 1 Sherman has a chance to make a statement and he does. Quote,

Speaker 1 wow. Why? I don't know.
I'm sorry. I'm really sorry.
I'd like to say I'm a victim too. Oh, what about me?

Speaker 1 He said that to two grieving families in court for their murdered fucking children that they just saw pictures of their fucking autopsies. And he murdered them.
He said, I'm a victim too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Which the courtroom just

Speaker 1 chatter went everywhere. The families were pissed.
Yeah. From the newspaper, it says, in broken and inarticulate language, Sherman begged for their forgiveness and apologized repeatedly.

Speaker 1 He said, you can hate me. That's okay.
He said, crying. He said he had nightmares about the murders.
He said he's been in and out of prison since he was a teenager and he's very afraid of Perez.

Speaker 1 A hardened, prison-hardened 43-year-old's afraid of a 20-year-old who gets beat up by a 19-year-old over a 13-year-old girl. This is bullshit.

Speaker 1 But you don't understand, he's new to this, and he's a real rising star in the criminal world. Oh, you know it.
Yeah. Terrified.

Speaker 1 He said that he only pretended to participate in the sexual assault out of fear, and he pretended to hit Davis in the head with a heavy tree branch out of fear and threats from Perez.

Speaker 1 The judge said, quote, you are fully deserving of the punishment in this plea agreement,

Speaker 1 saying that Sherman was doomed to try and find out the answers about why he and Michael Perez killed these people. He said, there's no way to know exactly what happened, who did exactly what.

Speaker 1 It took two people to kill Greg Enos and Colleen Davis, and I have no doubts you minimize your role.

Speaker 1 You, sir, may fuck off.

Speaker 1 This is two concurrent sentences of 20 years to life. Okay, so 20 to life.
So he is eligible for parole in 20 years. 20 years, yeah.
Which is last year. Yeah.
Last year, actually. Yeah, damn.

Speaker 1 2006, Perez appeals this thing.

Speaker 1 He points out the existence of

Speaker 1 sloppy crime scene evidence, and the murders were, now he's saying they were a result of provocation, that he was having consensual sex, and Enos came out, called him the N-word, and then it just exploded from there.

Speaker 1 Now it's a hate crime. Yeah, now it's a, yeah, he should, we should really dig him up and and put him on trial.
So, yeah, he's saying all of this.

Speaker 1 He's saying that he lied to police and varying accounts, talking about the tree limb resting on the skull.

Speaker 1 They said, we know it's your shirt. And he said, no.
All of this, it's denied. His appeal is denied.
Good. Sherman appeals, too, in 2018.
Really? Arguing that the judge was biased against him. Oh.

Speaker 1 Saying also that he had been coerced, C-O-H-E-R-S-T, he spelled it

Speaker 1 coerced, coerced, into accepting this plea and that his court-appointed lawyer had been below standards and not defended him.

Speaker 1 This goes through a little bit. It's denied finally in 2022 after all this, because they said, you pled guilty, you said all the things you did.
What do you want the lawyer to do?

Speaker 1 April 2024 is his first parole hearing.

Speaker 1 He first could apply for parole in 2023. They gave him a hearing in 2024.
He said, quote, I'm sorry, there ain't a day that go by. That's what he said, there ain't a day that go by.

Speaker 1 I don't look back and see what I've done.

Speaker 1 The parole people called him a, quote, violent, dangerous, and high-risk individual and said, get the fuck back in your cell, ass. Good.
And sent him back, denied, and they both stay in prison.

Speaker 1 Perez is in an out-of-state, non-Vermont prison. So there you go, everybody.
That is Grafton, Vermont. The two biggest morons who've ever committed a murder.
For no reason. Literally.

Speaker 1 No. They didn't steal anything.
No, because Perez wanted to sleep with a woman. He wanted to rape somebody, and this guy didn't want his friend to get raped.
Oh, gee, weird. What a weird thing to do.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 Pablo, was that it? Yeah. Poncho Poncho.

Speaker 1 Didn't want to have him take note for an answer. That's it.

Speaker 1 So either way, if you like that story or like how we told it, more like better way to say it, get on whatever app you're listening on, give us five stars. It helps a lot.

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Get in there for sure and do that. Get yourself Patreon.

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