#567 - Til Murder Do Us Part - Lebanon, Maine

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This week in Lebanon, Maine, a dark plan unfolds as a man lures people to their horrifying deaths so he can try to convince his wife to return to him and that everything will be much better now. Welcome to Small Town Murder.
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy.
Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo.
I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman.
Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today. We have a crazy show for you, as usual.
Just wild stuff going on in this episode. This was one of those, as I'm reading it, I'm shocked at every turn.
I'm like, oh my God, this is insanity. We will get to all of that and more, of course.
But first, before we do, head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. Get your tickets for live shows.
The entire 2025 calendar is for sale. Pittsburgh, February 7th.
You are up first. Get in there.
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Madison just about sold out. Portland, I think, is sold out.
And that's in November. So Seattle, D.C., Philly, all these places get your tickets tickets.
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Get in there, get those tickets. So thank you for everyone that's done that.
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like it. It's us making fun of

a moron who threw away their entire

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One crime and sports, one small town murder. And how much of that do they get? You get every bit of it.
Every damn drop of it. And this week, what we're going to give you is for crime and sports, we are going to talk about Kobe Bryant's little problem he had in Colorado there.
His, the rape accusation and everything that happened afterwards. And we'll get into all that.
We have the depositions and the interrogations and everything. And then for small town murder, it is Internet salad time again.
I feel like every once in a while we feel like people are getting tense and we're like, let's have an Internet salad where we're going to talk about everything that doesn't matter. Basically, it'll be just like we do before the show starts and we're looking around going god you see this idiot stuff like that no politics just fun it's going to be a good time patreon.com slash crime in sports and you get a shout out at the end of the show as well for sure where jimmy will mispronounce your name while he'd love to get it correct so that's a lot of fun disclaimer time and names are hard too let's be honest here disclaimer time this is a comedy show it is we are comedians there will be jokes here and there will be dead people here the stories are a hundred percent real unfortunately they are not you know embellished for comedic effect or anything silly like that these are real crazy stories that are just nuts and the only way to the only way to tell them properly is to have to sit back and laugh once in a while and go, oh, my God.

Not at the gross parts.

That's the thing.

We're not like, oh, my.

And then her head got cut off.

Hilarious.

That's never fun.

But when people try to do crazy dismounts and everything else, and I think I can get

away with this, that's hilarious, objectively.

But what we don't do is we don't make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Well, why is that, James? Because we're assholes.
Yes. But we're not scumbags.
That's how that works. See how it goes? Pretty awesome deal.
So that's going to be a good time. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together for any reason whatsoever, I don't know.
We disagree. But, hey, you have the right to disagree with that.
And no complaining later. Let's just say that.
So that said, I think it's time, everybody, to sit back. Here we go.
Let's all clear the lungs. What do you say here? And let's all shout, shut up and give me murder.
Let's do this, everybody. OK.
Let's go on a trip, shall we? Here we go. We are going to Maine this week.
Oh, yeah. We love Maine, obviously.
This is far west Maine here. This is the westernmost town in Maine, as a matter of fact.
Is that right? Absolutely. So as far away from the ocean as you can get here.
It is called Lebanon, Maine, just like the Middle Eastern place here, Lebanon. It's about an hour to Portland, Maine, over by the sea there, and it's about an hour to Concord, New Hampshire, in the opposite direction.
It sits right in the middle there, and it's three hours to Old Town, Maine, which is our last Maine episode, the Facebook Catfish Killer. Oh, yeah.
I remember that one. That was a fucking weird one.
Whenever social media is involved in murder, it's always strange. So this is in York County, area code 207 here.
Little bit of history, just a drop here. It was first granted this area for a town in 1733, very old, by the General Court of massachusetts bay as the township at the head of the berwick that's what they called it river or what creek i guess so so then but they said they basically gave this to about 60 families given a charter but no one came here for like 10 years so what if you started a town and no one showed up that's what happened here apparently, apparently.
So the first meeting house was built in 1753, and then it kind of went on from there. And then in 1767, it was finally incorporated as Lebanon, and it was Maine's 23rd town.
So this is early, early Maine stuff here. Yeah.
I guess farming was good here. There's some good level ground in this area with extensive pine plains to the northwest of this area the chief crop here hey oh is that right just hey what are we growing dried out grass okay great let's do it i'm shocked hey um yeah also at the salmon river falls and the little river were water power sites for mill mills.
Lebanon had four saw mills, three grist mills, a shingle mill. It's making shingles, pumping shingles out.
A wood carding mill. Wood or wool carding, not wood carding.
Yeah. Wood carding with a D card.
Yeah. Okay.
And a tannery, of course, as well. Sure.
And it grew from there and it hasn't grown very much from there we'll say it's still a pretty small place we've never been here we like Maine but never been here let's find some reviews of this place and see what we got here maybe they'll know more than we do let's see five stars I love the town I live in even though all we have is a Dunkin Donuts spelled out. Not not like D.O.
nuts like donuts. Dunkin Donuts and our local pizza shop.
It's the best. I highly doubt that.
My high school has kids from my town, Berwick and North Berwick. All our towns come together.
Towns together create an even bigger community.

Right. Yeah.
We just built one school for all of you, and they're trying to put a positive spin. A lot of people complain that if you go to high school in this area, it's a long drive to the high school because that's the closest one because it's small.
Here is four stars. Lebanon's a very quiet and cute town.
Everything is pretty far apart, but there's lots of busy towns nearby to go to and do fun things, like going to the movies or going shopping. Right.
Woo-hoo. While I'm usually home during the colder season, summer is pretty fun here, and there are lakes in town to go cool off and a few ice cream shops to get a cool treat.
The town is also working on getting more stores in, like the new Dunkin' Donuts and the new shop being built next to it. Apparently, that's the pizza place.
It just hadn't arrived yet. Oh, okay.
Yeah. Overall, it's a nice town for a quiet and peaceful place of residence.
Sounds like a final resting place, the way they said it. You only get two places.
I mean, you get morning and evening food and then figure out lunch on your own.

I guess not a lot there.

I guess the pizza place hopefully has something you can get two stars.

There are several aspects that I would like to see changed for the better in Lebanon, Maine.

There is a limited number of resources within the town.

It lacks a grocery, a grocery store, pharmacy, restaurants, coffee shops, etc.

You know, shit that makes a town a town. Things that people need.
Yeah, places people go, the center of the town. We're missing all of that.
The roads are poorly taken care of. Another feature that would be a great addition are sidewalks.
You know, if we could just walk around, that'd be good. Yeah.
Not asking a lot. Unfortunately, without sidewalks, I do not feel safe running on the road.
There's a little to none entertainment options or shopping experiences in Lebanon. There is very little to do within the town.
On the other hand, an aspect of Lebanon I do enjoy is that the houses are not extremely close together. There you go.
I mean, there's plenty of room. Plenty of room.
Why be crammed in here when there's nothing around you? People in this town, 6,437, which is too many to not have a couple of restaurants and a grocery store. To just have a pizza joint and a dunk.
What are we talking about? That seems really off there. Way more female than male here, which is definitely – it's over 52% female, which is definitely different.

I guess people may be retiring.

Women live longer. I don't know.
I know that much. But median age here, though, is just about around the national average.
It's only 39, so I don't understand it. About 60% married.
It's 50-50 the rest of the country. So this is like a very kind of family-ish kind of a place here.
race in this town, I mean it's Maine

98.4% white

0.8% Hispanic

0.8% Hispanic, 0.8% two or more races. Yeah, small town Maine.
30% here are religious, which is 50-50 in the rest of the country. And the highest is, not shockingly, Catholic, of course.
Because as we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the North. They are definitely going to be the majority wherever they are in the North here.
The unemployment rate here is high. It is almost 7%, which is much higher than the rest of the country, which is in the fours here.
There's nowhere to work. No, where? The Dunkin' Donuts? But apparently they found somewhere to work because the median household income here is $92,117 a year, which is over $20,000.

A lot of attractive feet in this place, apparently.

Lebanon, Maine.

Our feet are the nicest.

Jerk off to our feet.

No hangnails.

Holy shit.

What a weird, that's a weird stat.

Cost of living here, 100 is regular, even, the rest of the country. Here it is a 110.
So a little bit high. And the housing is a little bit high as well.
The median home cost here is $313,600. Yeah, so stay the fuck out.
Get the fuck out of here. Stay out.
Take your feet, pick somewhere else. so if we've convinced you you love pizza and dunkin donuts and this is just enough for you we have for you the lebanon main real estate report okay your average two-bedroom rental here very much more expensive than the national average.
It's $1,690, which is... God, almost $70.
Way up there, yeah. Here is a three-bedroom, one-bath, 1,400-square-foot dwelling, we'll call it, because we'll get to what it is.
It's on two acres, which is nice. It's a trailer.
But it's a trailer that they, like, attach some stuff. It's not just the latticework around the bottom.
It was like, you know, it looks like you can't just pick it up and take it somewhere. It looks like it's in there pretty good.
It looks kind of shitty from the outside, but it's not that bad from the inside. It's clean.
It's livable. It's nice.
It's okay. The listing says it's a charming ranch home.

Which, calm down.

It's manufactured. Relax here.

This house, $374,000

for that, though.

Which, I mean, two acres is nice,

but $1,400. You're buying the land.

You're buying the land, yeah. Here's a three-bedroom,

two-bath, 1,056

square feet.

Which is three bedrooms and 1,000 square feet is cramming them in there. 0.75 acres and another, again, it's the same thing, a mobile home, a manufactured home that's been made to look like it belongs there.
This house, $399,900 for a 1,000 square foot trailer. That is bonkers.
And then here, this next one, this isn't really a family house or anything like this, more of a vacation spot. It's a two bedroom, one bath, 1,060 square foot place on 0.73 acres.
It's a little house, but it is lakefront. You have a dock and everything like it's right on the water.
This is me. All wood inside.
It's nice. It's a cabin getaway.
The inside that they show in all the pictures, there's beds everywhere. Families of 14 are going to a two-bedroom lake house to sleep.
It's insanity. It's crazy.
But it's on the waterfront. $635, bucks for that bad boy oh my not even an acre they're out of their minds over there yeah that is crazy things to do in this town well let's start out with the new england death metal bonanza sure rock on here we go uh the it's the new england death metal fun time place.
Funtime Bonanza. Which makes it hilarious and makes me want to go to it.
I'll just read the description. It is the most extreme outdoor music festival in the New England area.
You can hear the fucking early 90s guitar lick. It's extreme, bro.
It's extreme, yeah. It's fucking extreme.
No fear. It's hosted in Lebanon, Maine.
The Bonanza brings artists and vendors from all over New England, as well as bands from all over the country, and they're going to be into it here. This year's festival features 45 bands from all over the U.S., spanning multiple genres, including death, grind, thrash, which are all just different.
They're all metal. And even folk punk punk which i don't know what that is and i don't know how it fits in with this but okay all right uh they said it was carefully curated this lineup to deliver equal parts brutality and fun we'll also be hosting many games you know the throw your baby in baby in a pit of acid game is fun.
Pin the head on the live chicken. Yeah, that's a good one.
That's fun. The poster for this has like all the band's logos, so it's really hard to read.
Oh, yeah. I love that they do that.
It's funny. They make their band name impossible to read.
All right. Belushi Speedball, I see, is one of them, which is obviously.
What is it? I can't read what that is. Joe Buck Yourself is another one.
Okay. Maybe my favorite band name ever, Poon Tickler.
That's amazing. The Poon Tickler.
Okay. Sure, that sounds like something we do on Your Stupid Opinions for a personal item.
Here's the poon tickler with three stars. On Amazon.
On Amazon. Anti-sapien.
I guess they don't like people. Dead alive.
Narcotic wasteland. I don't even know.
Deterioration. Bonginator.
Okay, that's kind of right on the nose there, I think. You're going to work harder.
This is bad. Dude, look at the posters.
This is going to drive. It looks like a bunch of tribal tattoos.
They don't even look like. Oh, that looks so painful.
Mutation barbecue is one of them. Yeah, this is so dumb.
What does that say? Jar or tar? I have no, it beats me. No clue.
Well, if that is also Black Mass, I see, that's one of them here. Okay, that's got to be a Massachusetts band, right? I would say, yeah, maybe Black Mass Mutation Barbecue.
I like Nailed Shut. That's one I can read.
That's cool, yeah. Nailed Shut.
I want to see the Poon Tick the poon tickler if you get the poon tickler in there maybe they won't be so shut that's the thing you're you're not getting a radio play with your band called poon tickler that was the poon ticklers with oh stab me harder jesus christ that'd be so weird uh Tar, it looks like. Tar? Or jar? Maybe jar.
Yeah. That's possible.
The T is really awkward. It looks like.
Look at this. That doesn't look like.
They need to work on their fucking J because that doesn't look like a J. Yeah, right.
It looks like tar. I don't know.
But I'm sure it's jar. Everything's got to be like all jagged lettering.
Yeah, it's all the same. Then you can't even fucking read it.
If I was a death metal band, my logo would be like bubble letters just because it's going to stand out. On every poster I'm on, that's what everyone's eyes are going to go to.
Have it stamped like black flag. You can't miss black.
You know what that says. Yeah, absolutely.
Everything. Deterioration, maul, M-A-U-L, Immortal Suffering will be there.
I think I've heard of them, too. Malignancy looks like one of them.
I've definitely heard of them. Well, I don't know.
Who the fuck knows? They can be malignant. Who the fuck knows? Who the fuck knows? Those are all the ones I can read, but there's literally twice as many bands as I've read.
And there's no big headliner. Practical gore.
Not that I can see. There's shit in big letters, but I can't even read what they are.
It looks like, I don't know, maybe the biggest ones like Belushi Speedball will be headlining one night. Yeah, I swear I've heard of them.
That sounds familiar, but I mean, we've also heard about a lot of John Belushi doing Speedball, so maybe not. Good point, yeah.
And if that is too much, let's say that is like little too that's extreme for you yeah there's also the complete opposite of that which is the cannabis church of new england oh for you that's that's way too much i'm gonna chill out now for a while and smoke some weed and they say we believe in freedom of religion our motto is do unto others as you could have others do unto you. Well, that's a lot of people's mottos.

That's I believe.

Yeah.

Isn't that the golden rule as a matter of fact called like it's pretty sure that's in the Bible.

Wow.

It's in a lot of shit.

Our annual membership meeting is always the third weekend in August at our live, laugh,

love festival.

Oh no.

Jesus.

We also meet annually two Saturdays before Halloween.

What a fucking weird, not the second Saturday of October. Two Saturdays before Halloween.
So what if Halloween's on a Saturday? Does that mean that the. It'd be so confusing.
Why are they making weed smoking for basic bitches? No shit. Why are they making it confusing for people who are stoned also? That also makes you over analytical.
So immediately, because I am stoned, I thought, well, what if it's on a Saturday? Then what is it? Is it the last Saturday? Is it two Saturdays or three Saturdays before that? Because that's the thing that fucking blew my mind. I'd never show up for this thing.
People showing up on the wrong Saturday. That is our hollow harvest fest.
And then it says we also gather randomly throughout the year. We are open to and for all by appointment.
So you got to call and say you're coming. And then you're allowed to go there.
So what the fuck is happening? Death metal and weed is happening in this town. Crime rate in this town.
What we are interested in here. Property crime is about one third below the national average.
That's good. That's not bad.
And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime, is about two-thirds under the national average. So one-third of the national average.
That's very safe. Very safe.
There's not a lot of people here. Not a lot of people, and there's nobody out doing anything.
So how the hell are you going to get in beef with someone at Dunkin Donuts at eight o'clock in the morning? Yeah, yeah. That's a that's a weird one.
So that said, let's talk about some murder and just one of the weirdest things ever that we've ever had. It's so strange.
Let's start out March 29th, 1999. OK, everyone's scared of Y2K for some reason.
And're all terrified here this is 1257 AM so 1 in the morning 911 call comes into the York County Sheriff's Department and it's a report of what they believe what they're calling is a domestic dispute it's a Monday evening Monday night you whatever. So the person making the call is a 12 year old girl named Whitney Brown.
And she is freaking out saying, I don't know what's going on. My mother got in her car and there's other people out there.
And my mother was screaming, he's here. He's here.
I heard it from the inside. She was out in the driveway.
And from the window, she tells them that she heard he's here, he's here from her mother outside the trailer. And then from the window, this Whitney, 12-year-old Whitney, looked out and saw two armed figures descend on her mother's car and smash their way inside the vehicle.
So she's on the phone. She's on the phone.
He doesn't know who he is, but she can see him and somebody else smashing the shit out of their car. Yeah, it's one in the morning, so it's just shadows and figures.
Even if lights are on, they're not great at one in the morning like that. And then they were gone.
They disappeared. So she tells the police, I think I think it's my father that did this.
I think my father just did this to my mother in the driveway. All I heard is he's here.
He's here. And then I see two people with guns, armed people smashing into her car and then they were taken off with her car.
So I don't know what happened. So the police show up, obviously everybody's gone from here.
And they don't know. They're trying to figure it out and piece this thing together.
And they're going to find some surprises out behind the house. And, uh, oh yeah.
And, uh, this is going to lead to a crazy fucking unraveling of a wild story here. So let's find out who these players here are.
Deborah Smarella is her mother. That's her mom.
Debbie, she goes by. Debbie Smarella.
Debbie is born in 1963. And that's, like I said, Whitney's mom, the woman who screamed, he's here, he's here.
She grew up mostly in Kittery, Maine, but then also moved around a lot from, you know, around Maine. Yeah, her mother, her stepfather, her father was gone from a young age, but she had a stepfather.
So mom and stepfather had to move around a lot, but she spent most of her time in Kittery, I guess. They'd end up back in Kittery, Maine, a lot and stuff like that.
Not bad at all. So at age 18, Debbie is going to find someone she describes as a charming bad boy, which are always the right guy, ladies.
That usually works out great. That's the guy.
Fuck that guy, then find somebody nice. You know? So I guess this is when she lived in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, and there's a small Navy shipyard there, and that's where she met this guy.
His name is Stephen Brown. Now, Stephen Brown's about her age, born a year later, and Debbie remembered the exact date and time she met Stephen Brown, which means she either really loved him or really hated him.
One or the two. Yeah.
It's an extreme circumstance. Extreme emotions here.
It was 10 p.m. on July 17th, 1981 in Prescott Park on the waterfront in Portsmouth she met him she said she saw him sitting on a motorcycle she was smitten from there buddy yeah she had later on said he asked me if I wanted to go for a ride and we just drove around all night really? yeah just want to go for a ride and she like sure he's like hop on baby on the back of his bike and off they went no helmets i see in this at all yeah yeah no well it's new hampshire live free or die yeah that's what i mean who the hell knows what's going on and uh she said from that point on we were inseparable all he had to do was go you want to hop on the back of this bitch and he was, that's it.
That's it. She was into it.
And at 18, you can pull that off. Yeah.
At 18, you could be like, what's happening, sexy lady? You want to hop on the back of my bike? And an 18-year-old will go, sure. Whereas a 40-year-old will be like, get away from me.
Do you have a car also? Got something with seatbelts, you dumb fucks? Anything. This isn't your only mode of transportation, is it? Yeah, you've got a car to do, right? That's what they'll ask.
I'm telling you. Maybe that's the allure of a guy on a motorcycle.
It's like, oh, he also has a motorcycle. What if he only has a motorcycle? That's the problem.
That's what I see anyway. I see a guy on a motorcycle, and I'm like, he might have no choice.
That guy touches the rain. Yeah, especially in the rain.
I'm like, you made either an active choice, you're either a dummy, or this is the only form of transportation that you have. One of the two.
No other option here. So, yeah.
Steven, let's find out about him here. They're going to date all through 1981 and all throughout the fall.
And by the end of the fall of eight, 1981, she's already knocked up, which I believe

you can get knocked up just from riding on the back of a motorcycle.

I think I'm not sure.

The wind will blow that semen right in.

It is.

You got a horny 18 year old guy driving it.

Yeah.

I feel like the osmosis through just holding them around the waist, you're going to get pregnant.

Like a mogwai.

Just touch them.

Kids are going to start flying out.

Especially if it rains.

Fuck.

Especially if that's his only form of transportation.

Then he's very fertile, that means.

I didn't even ever think about that.

Really.

The bigger...

I just got a motorcycle.

Really? Really. like, really?

Really? I've got a car. Do you have a car also? That's what I would want.
But as we know, the rule with men are the bigger scumbag you are, the more fertile your sperm is. That's just the way it works.
That's true, yeah, yeah, yeah. The more bills that go unpaid, the higher the sperm count.
It fucking really jacks your your sperm up here so steven uh grows up the oldest of three sons so all three boys in the family uh he is the uh son of ken and donna brown he grew up in a house built by his parents so he had there's no reason for him to be a shithead this guy by the way and's not just a shithead because he rides a motorcycle. That's not what we're saying.
Jimmy has a motorcycle. My dad and my brother have motorcycles.
That's not what we're talking about here. He's an asshole and he has a motorcycle.
It's both. It's just both.
You don't have to be a good guy to buy anything. No, you really...
Really don't own things really don't here this show small town murder is sponsored by better help therapy number one can feel like it's a big investment because it's a it can be very expensive over time but your state of mind is just as important as your physical health if you had a physical problem you wouldn't be going well i don't go to the doctor and they're going to send a bill. You've got to get it taken care of.
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So this is, he grew up in the woods in Newfield, New York, which is as central as you can get as far as east to west. It's central New York.
It's near Ithaca. It's up there.
Oh, yeah. Right in the middle.
You know, not a lot going on there. It's 10 miles from Ithaca.
It's where Cornell is, by the way. Yeah.
So it's a town of about 5,000 people. And all these college towns up in New York, like there's all the SUNY towns, which are State University of New York.
They're all just these little college towns. It's weird.
It's just, yeah, these little. New York is chock full of those.
There's so many of those fucking colleges. So many colleges.
Every little town in Western New York has a SUNY. They all do.
Otherwise, there wouldn't be a town there, probably the mill closed that was what they had you know what i mean so um newfield's an old farming town and everyone around here knows each other families stay here for generations oh that's the that's the wilson farm and that's the so-and-so farm and everybody knows everybody's shit it's one of those type of towns here now steven and this is funny because when you grow up in a big city and you're like a ne'er-do-well kid, nobody gives a shit or notices. But when there's a town of 5,000 and you're a shithead kid, everybody knows who you are and that you're a shithead.
That's everybody. There's no way around it.
So his mother, his own mother called Stephen a, quote, problem child. Oh yeah.
Redhead adopted little asshole. You know how it goes? No, that's not him.
Just like the movie. So John Ritter couldn't figure it out how to raise him.
You know how it works. He had trouble sitting still and taking instruction at school.
Now that's also, you know, ADD and shit like that, ADHD.

Nowadays, we'd realize that.

But at the time, they were just like, fucking, he's an asshole.

Yeah, just hit him. Won't sit still.

Won't sit still and listen to this boring bullshit.

Yeah.

Get the ruler.

Let's whack him a couple times.

But the problem is, too, he was bullying the other kids as well

and constantly getting in fights with people, his brothers insecure beating the shit out of his brothers who he's the oldest of yeah so he feels inferior because he's got something happening somewhere something here um his mother said today they would have sent him to a psychiatrist and put him on medication but But back then he was just labeled as a bad kid.

That was a bad kid. Hyper.
So Stephen never gets along with his father. That's a problem over the years.
His father keeps trying and keeps trying, but his father is kind of a strict guy and a disciplinarian type of guy. And Stephen is having none of that shit whatsoever.
Right.

So Stephen leaves home at 16, just hops on his hog and fires it up rides off into the sunset here uh headlight towards something better aims that headlight toward texas is where he aimed oh is that right oh yeah much different from maine uh to live with an uncle in Texas.. That's wow.
At 18 years old, he joins the Marines. Yeah, it was around 1982 ish.
He's assigned. That's a typical thing.
Yeah. He didn't have much else going on.
And, you know, why not? The war's going on at the moment. So fuck it.
So it works. Pretty, pretty chill.
So he was assigned to an infantry assault battalion. Wow.
Problem is his inability to pay attention and follow orders isn't just school or his dad. No.
It doesn't get fixed in the Marines. That's going to carry over the rest of his life.
Back then they'd be like, you send him to the Marines, they'll straighten him out. But not everybody is straightened out by the Marines.
Some people are just fuck-ups and that's all there is to it. Sometimes you got to get hit.
Yeah, I don't know. Whether it's by life or whatever.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, not your parents. Sometimes you got to get kicked in the mouth to figure it out.
Oh shit, that was dumb. Yeah.
So his mother said that he was transferred to the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard to work as a security guard before they gave him an early discharge. That's what a pain in the ass this guy was.
They were like, let's send him to the Navy and make him stand there by himself from 10 o'clock to 7 o'clock. 10 o'clock at night to 7 o'clock in the morning.
Send a Marine up to a shipyard. A shipyard.
Nothing's happening. No, and they go, stand there for eight hours.
Good, great. He can't bother anybody.
Yeah. It's the equivalent of an eight-year-old being put in the corner.
Yeah, he got put in marine timeout is what he got put in at the Navy Yard, standing there all night. So that's where he was working when they met, when he meets Debbie.
And he's discharged early in 1982. and debbie's father donald wood senior said he had a motorcycle and my daughter was crazy about motorcycles that's it he had tattoos and a motorcycle and tattoos in 1981 were that's yeah that's really pushing the edges yeah you were edgy i mean a lot of the military guys Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But that was an edgy thing. That wasn't normal for everybody to have a bunch of tattoos.
I remember when my uncle got one. Dude, it was like, good Lord, what's wrong with you? Yeah, that's what you would think back then.
Yeah, my mother had a boyfriend who was a Navy SEAL, and he had a bunch of Navy SEAL weird tattoos. I was like, wow, you got a bunch of them them he had a clown making out with a woman so his hands were on her ass it was like dude why would and it's right on his fucking forehead oh that's weird where are you gonna work that's fucked up man what are you you gotta never mind work who are you gonna talk to what is that a clown molesting a woman what do you have on your arm.
This guy had a giant, like, from his shoulder almost to his elbow, a giant, like, fucking

creepy Grim Reaper with blood dripping off the sickle.

Where are you going to go, man?

Well, that was his Navy SEALs units tattoo.

Really?

They had it drawn up and they all got it.

Everybody got it.

They all got it.

So I'm like, yeah.

When someone asked him about it, he'd go, yeah, because we had to murder a lot of people.

That's what he would say.

We had to kill shitloads of people. That's what he did.
We were the reaper. Yeah.
You better fear the reaper. That's what it was.
So January 11th, 1982, with Debbie four months pregnant, they fucking shuffle on down the aisle and get married. Wow.
Stephen is not going to shirk his responsibilities here. He's going to marry this young lady.
He's a good dad, yeah. They're going to hopefully live happily ever after, a 19-year-old and an 18-year-old with a baby.
As we all know, that always works out. It always works out.
Sometimes it does, but sometimes it does not. My grandparents figured it out.
Yeah, lots of people did. Yeah, yeah.
So they had a civil ceremony. Didn't like do a church wedding or anything like that.
Um, a few days later, apparently, um, Steve turns a little bit dark here. A few days into this marriage, he told her, tells Debbie that he owns her now, you know, like a motorcycle.
And, uh, she told people that he also threw her across the room, quote, like a rag doll as well. He told her, this marriage license is my title to you.
Oh, boy. Like a motorcycle.
I got two things. I got a motorcycle and a woman.
These are what I own. No car, though.
She should ask that. Ownership marriage license.
Okay. As my title to you.
Like, yeah, this is my, like a car. Yeah, get it notarized.
Debbie recalled Stephen telling her that she, you know, telling her this as he's throwing her around the room and treating her violently, basically. And this, obviously, if this happens three days after you're married,

this is the honeymoon phase.

It's not good.

So it's not going to probably get a lot better over time,

I would think.

And she's fucking pregnant, for Christ's sake.

He's throwing her around the room.

So that's very little disregard for really anything.

This will likely deteriorate further.

Yeah.

She said that he began kicking and punching and shoving her

within a week of the marriage. It never happened before, just like that.
She said one night he was drinking heavily and doing coke, which is terrific. What a great combo there.
When he came home, she was standing in the kitchen. He came home, coked up and drunk, which is a real weird combo.
Sometimes you're a little more paranoid. Sometimes you're more drunk.
You never know. Part of the course for a scumbag on a motorcycle.
Yeah, it kind of fits. A 1981 scumbag on a motorcycle.
That's the guy. I've been drinking and doing coke off my bike seat.
Doing coke off my bike's gas tank.

Sucking it off the Saddleman.

So she said, next thing I knew, I was being picked up and thrown across the room.

Okay.

Which is fucking horrifying.

He just comes home fucked up.

She's standing there pregnant.

By this time, she's five months pregnant, six months pregnant, and he's tossing her around the room.

This is crazy.

So they're going to end up having a son. This first child is going to be a son named Stephen.
Let's name it after him, too. Yeah.
Give him a real fighting chance here. And then later on, they're going to have Whitney in about 1987.
So they're going to stay together for a few years, but it's a lot of... Rocky.'s real rocky, and it's a lot of who knows what mood he's in, and he's okay for a few months.
And then out of nowhere, he starts being violent for a while and abusive, and then he's not again. And real strange guy here, Stephen.
So after Stephen is discharged from the Marines in 1982. Jizz charged.
Jizz charged from the Marines. After he's fucking booted from the Marines.
This guy just reminds me of my friend who starts stories with, so I was AWOL from the Navy, right? Fascinating. Way to start this.
In a real Philly accent. He's from Philly.
Guinea from Philly. He's like, so I'm AWOL from the Navy, right? Oh my God.
That's a great way to start a story. And I'm like, I got to hear the rest of this.
I know this is going to be interesting. Jesus Christ.
So after he's discharged, they start moving all around the country. Just no stability.
Looking for a place to lay down roots here. Which, good God, if you have to be in a, you're in this horrible, abusive relationship and you're forced to pack your shit up and move around all the time, too.
That's never good. They move around different places.
They're in Florida for a little while, Virginia for a little while, all around. I guess where there's work, probably, I think is where he's going.
Finally, though, after a while here in the late 1980s now, they have two children and everything like that. They end up settling back in Newfield, New York, where Stephen is from.
Stephen gets a job that he knows he can get because his father gives it to him. A little Nepo baby.
Yep. Well, he's delivering home heating oil, so it's not like he's inheriting a fucking NFL football team or something but it's the low rung in that nepo baby not exactly mark davis or whatever the val davis's kid is but still yeah he's uh delivering home heating yeah that's fucking weirdo jesus christ yeah delivering home heating oil which we just had a problem with and it was really annoying oh yeah never mind long story so it just Long story.
It just gets the fuck out of me. It just makes me angry at Steven because I'm like, oh, you deliver this shit? Yeah, let's talk about it.
Get over here. Get over here.
So, yeah, they settle a new field where Steven works delivering fuel to the masses, apparently, here. He works for his father's company, Agway Fuel Company, and the family lives in a house owned by his parents, Donna and Kenneth Brown.
So basically he moves back in and just is taken into the womb of his parents here again. Just here's a house you can have.
Here's a job at my company. That sort of thing.
No, no. I mean if it's a good job and a good house and a nice area it's fine i guess but not making his own way right it's also you got to be personally invested and willing to fucking uh evolve and get better because yeah given the opportunity you got to capitalize you just want to go out and ride your bike and fucking do coke off the steering wheel or off the fucking handlebars and the you know everything the pay raise, it just means you buy bigger amounts of Coke.

That's not good.

That's going to be a problem.

Yeah, that's not going to be great.

He was irresponsible, by the way.

He hasn't grown up at all.

He's still kind of a jerk off, which is why he keeps moving around the country because he can't hold down a job because he's very irresponsible.

He would lie to his father and tell him he was working when he wasn't.

Oh, boy. Yeah, no, I'm at work.
Yeah, yeah, I know. yeah i know i'm working yeah i'm going in today and then he wouldn't do anything so his mother said steve could be very lax he only does a good job when he wants to he is a natural truck driver he can back between two trees and not hit the mirrors unfortunately the laziness sets in right he's fucking dad are enablers he's fucking lazy yep and that's and they know that's why he's back here and that's why he hasn't been able to get anything else going on in the last eight years because he's a fucking lazy asshole they know it that's they were you know relieved they probably were when he joined the marines they were like okay at least he's the government's responsibility yeah not ours anymore I've heard they're really tough on them yeah no shit

so Like, okay, at least he's the government's responsibility. Yeah, not ours anymore.
I've heard they're really tough on him. Yeah, no shit.
So he's being lazy. He's lying to his father.
And after a while, he's so bad that his own father has to fire him. No.
Yeah, his father has to bring him in. But he does it? He does it.
He fires him. Yeah, yeah.
At some point, if you're not making your fuel deliveries, it's fucking cold. Yeah.
You're going to lose customers, and then you're not going to have a business anymore. And you're going to get a lot of phone calls about people that don't have oil.
It happens. Trust me.
We made those phone calls a few times, and it was fucking great. I'll tell a short story here.
All right. Had a delay in the oil delivery okay my house has heating oil and we're waiting and calling them and they go oh well we thought you got we thought uh we had a wrong address they said it was undeliverable we're like no no we've been here for three years getting fucking oil constantly give us our oil right so yesterday the oil guy pulls in he's gonna give oil but i didn't see him putting the hose in the oil thing and doing it.
So Sarah has been fighting with these people and everything. So I look out the window because she runs out the door to make sure he's doing it.
I look out the window. She is standing on the top step of the door of the truck, holding on to the grab bar thing, talking to the driver in the window.

So I'm like, oh my God, this guy tried to say I'm not delivering the oil and she's on the side of the truck going,

fuck you, bro, you're not leaving.

I will hang on the side of this truck.

She's the kids from breaking to do.

Totally.

She's fucking shabba do.

So on the side of the front end loader, it's what? So I run outside to like try to fucking quell the situation or i got her back i'm like yeah motherfucker you're not going anywhere and then i see her laughing because the guy was just like settling in and he could she couldn't hear him through the window that's why she climbed hilarious i thought i was like i'm gonna have to fight a fucking oil delivery man today that's why this is funny to me. Hold the back of it and dig your feet in.

It's happening.

I'll get on the passenger side, I guess.

I got to get her back, you know what I mean?

Get on the roof and start breakdancing.

Tell him, you're going to deliver my oil and save the community center, motherfucker.

That's right.

Bet you can't do this.

Put a piece of cardboard down and bust some shit out. just watched it recently that's why i know i remember you we were texting about it ice cubes rap is so bad it's so crazy that yeah well that was pre-everything that's probably first started so oh my god now while this is all going on here.
Ice-T. Did I say Ice-Q? You did say Ice-Q.
God damn it. And I saw Ice-T in my head when you said Ice-Q.
Because I knew he's in it. But I was like, yeah.
Yeah. So, well, Ice-T was never the greatest rapper.
No. No.
And he said that too. He was like, I'm not a fucking rapper.
I just knew how to hustle these people into paying me. Yeah.
And he does dress like a good punk rock rapper. He's good at punk rock.
God damn. Body count was great.
Body count was good shit. So anyway, they get fired, and the couple, or he gets fired, and Steve and Debbie move back to Maine with their children here.
So they move to Maine. What town in Maine? They're moving around in Maine because they're trying to just figure it out because she just wants to.
They don't have – there's no stability with these two. No, and he just got fired from his dad's joint, so it's like – They're going to go to Kittery first and then end up in other places as well.
It's not bad. While they're doing this, basically, he keeps his abusive nature up, and Debbie would take the kids and leave after one of his outbursts.
And that happened all the time. She'd take the kids.
She'd leave. And this, by the way, wasn't for he didn't freak out over anything big.
You gambled away our mortgage money or anything like that and yell at her. This would be the dishes are dirty in the sink.
I didn't like that meal that you made me. So he'll freak out, throw the plate against the wall, say it's shit and she's a loser and attack her.
So it's a lot. He's a fucking monster.
Now, neighbors didn't see any of this, though. No? Their neighbors said they look like a couple of like doing shit together.
Yeah. On the outside, they he keeps up the appearance on the outside of everything's great.
But behind closed doors, it's not wonderful. Neighbors said they liked fishing together and they'd go motorcycling together.
And, you know, yeah, yeah, Steve, if she's behind him, he can't hit her. thing.
Just an elbow maybe or something. So he's also known as a big hunter in the area as well.
And yeah, they said that nobody knew about any real problems in the neighborhood. One of the neighbors said like we couldn't we didn't have any idea.
So in 1990, that's when they're going to stay in Kittery for a minute here in Kittery, Maine. He gets a job with the highway department in the town of Kittery.
So, okay, that's a stable job. And in April 1990, though, he transferred over to the sewer department because, you know, he stood on the highway and went, I want to wonder what's under this.
That's what I need to know. What's below our feet? You guys ever think about that? Where's the poop go when I flush it? That's i want to know i'm gonna follow it to its source find out so he would maintain trucks and clean sewer lines which sounds absolutely disgusting uh he did that by choice by the way he was like i want to work with poop that's what i want to work probably one of the last choices but it still a choice.
During this time, let's go over some problems they're having during this time here.

So this is some ugly shit here, everybody.

Debbie said that at one point he put a shotgun in her mouth and threatened to kill her.

Oh, my.

Yeah.

She said he also abused the children as well.

This isn't just the wife.

This is anybody, as we know, kids at school, his younger brothers, anyone who's around him that he feels like he can physically push around, he does.

He does pretty much.

He would kick and punch the kids.

He would call his daughter.

We're talking an eight-year-old.

He would call her a whore.

Okay.

All righty.

She's sitting there watching Wow Wow Wubzy, and he's like, whore. That's crazy.
She's incapable of being that. That's insanity.
And he'd call his son stupid. So she's a whore and he's a moron.
All right. But I mean, he's like, you know, what, 12 or something.
He might be stupid by now. We don't know.
You don't call him that, but it's possible that he is. I doubt it.
Steve's got some social issues. He's frustrated by a lot of things, and it comes out in name-calling and violence.
He's frustrated that he—am I a completely non-medical psychological opinion here? I think he's upset that he can't get any fucking footing anywhere. he's upset that no one looks at him as great as he thinks of himself yeah he can't get any footing so when he goes home that's when he can have some control he has no control over the outside world that doesn't give a shit about him but this fucking woman and these two little kids they're stuck here with me i can fucking knock them around all i want that's what it feels It's so sad.
It's fucking crazy, man. Now, Debbie's relative said they didn't know about any of this.
They didn't know about this abuse while the couple was living in Maine. She wasn't telling her relatives about it or anything.
Her uncle, Terry, said that Debbie left Stephen and moved into a Sanford, Maine shelter for battered women. But he came and apologized and sweet- sweet talked her and she moved back.
And this happens all the time with him and her all the time. Donna and Ken Brown.
Those are Steve's parents. They only visited them once in Maine.
And they said they were appalled at the conditions they were living under. Not the way he was acting.
The conditions of the house. They said it was fucking appalling.
They said they looked like they were just living in abject poverty. Like it was like crazy.
The mother said they weren't on welfare, but they looked like they were. It was hard for us to accept.
Fuck. Just, yeah.
They went there and like, our son is trash. That's what they figured out.
Yeah. Our son is white trash.
Perfect. So Stephen's parents, after seeing all of this, and they have two little kids running around in squalor and everything else.
Right. Rather than going, holy shit, we really made a mistake here with this kid.
We fucked up. They said, let's offer him something.
Let's get him out of here. Let's get them out of this situation.
They tried to save him again, even after the last time. They offered to build a modular home on the front of their property, and they'll live in that.
The parents and you guys with the kids can live in the house that we live in now that you grew up in, that I built with my hands. You can have that that and we'll move into a fucking modular home in the front yard.

That's how much they give a shit about this kid.

And then Ken gives him a job

delivering fuel again.

Delivering oil even though he

fucked up last time.

So, wow. His mother here

his mother said Ken gave

him a second chance and told him if he

didn't make good, he would have to make it on his own. She basically told him, I'm going to set you up for success here.
And if you do well in the business, something tells me it's his father's business. His father's trying to set him up to be able to hand this business off to him.
All goes well when I'm dead, you're living in the house with your kids and you own a fuel business. That's what the goal is.
Not so bad, yeah. All Stephen has to do is not be a disaster.

Right.

All he has to do is not fuck up.

So he seemed to be happy back in his hometown there in Newfield.

He had a lot of friends there still from growing up here.

He'd do his job in the early mornings, but then in the afternoon he had free time and

he liked going hunting and fishing and golfing. Who the fuck does that I mean, yeah, that sounds great.
Why not? Right. Debbie, though, doesn't have really any friends that much because she didn't grow up here and it's a small town.
It's 5000 people. So if you don't know everybody, it's going to be really hard to make friends.
You just have to hope that some of Stephen's friends have wives you don't hate. Oh, which is brutal.
The worst. As we all know, we've been put in that situation of you two are the same gender, talk to each other, and it's not great.
I like his wife, so hang out with him. Hang out with him.
Yeah, no, I don't like that at all. Fuck.
So they, she also would work two and sometimes three jobs at this point, too. I don't know if that's to get out of the house and to keep herself occupied or what here.

She worked at a garden store in Ithaca,

and a lady named Joyce Fox that worked there for nearly three years

said she could tell that Debbie was having some trouble at home.

This woman said,

She never said anything, but I knew there were problems.

She'd come into work in tears, and she couldn't concentrate. It got to the point where she was losing a lot of weight as well.
Getting too thin here. So this woman said she didn't say anything.
She didn't say anything to Debbie and Debbie didn't say anything to her about it. It was just something she noticed that obviously something was wrong.
But, you know, it's a coworker. You don't know exactly what's wrong in their life.
You don't know if their parents are sick or you have no idea who knows so this woman said though she was pretty sure that debbie was being abused by her husband at the time that's what it seemed like she said if not physical abuse there was mental abuse after going through a divorce myself i told her you don't have to take that because she eventually recognizes it yeah she got a friend who's like hey listen that's you know this isn't cool what's on here? Which sometimes you need an outside voice to tell you that. And you go, oh, yeah, what the fuck am I doing? And it's sometimes it's refreshing as much as it's frightening that somebody sees what's going on, recognizes it and is able to name it.
Yeah. I mean, knowing that you're offering that is something up.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. As much as it's embarrassing, at least as some people take it as embarrassing, it's also might feel like you're not alone for a minute here.
Yeah. You feel seen for a sec.
Yeah. That's pretty good.
She worked at Kohler Inc. K-O-L-A-R Inc.
A small manufacturing plant where she assembled machine parts. And Stephen made a point of dropping by the plant nearly every day to have lunch with her.
Why is that? Because he got off around her lunchtime. Remember, he gets off.
He goes early mornings, and then he gets off early, goes and has lunch with her. She's the only woman on a 12-person crew.
So I wonder why he's there every day. Yeah.
While visiting, he would talk to the other workers, her friends from work, and undermine her by telling crude stories of details of their sex life. Oh, my God.
So now she's the only woman that works there, and all the guys know about her sex life, which is pretty shitty, honestly.

That's super fucked up.

Yeah.

He even bragged one time right in front of her to all these people that one time she had to go to the hospital because we had sex so hard. The hospital.
I put her in the hospital. He was bragging.
Jesus. Jesus Christ.
So anyway, 1997-ish, around 1997, Stephen's parents decide that 37 years is long enough in the fuel oil business. Time to get out, huh? Time to get out of this game.
Ken's going to retire, and then the parents are going to move to Florida. That's how this is working.
Okay. Doing the Northeast thing.
So basically, Stephen is not offered the company or anything like that his dad sells the company i mean yeah he's so basically steven loses everything here he loses he can't even work for whoever just bought the company not really um unless it's well he can he was able to get work as a driver but he got a big pay cut because his dad was paying him what he could live on with the kids. And also, now his boss isn't his father, so he can't fuck up.
He's actually got to do his job here, so that's tough here. Ken and Donna Brown, apparently his parents, asked Stephen and Debbie at one point during this time period to go on a motorcycle ride with them to Elmira, which is about 15 miles away.
It's a scenic journey there. So they went to a restaurant and apparently at the restaurant, this is in front of his parents, by the way, you know, four of them are sitting there eating.
He lashed out and yelled at Debbie for taking too long to order. Oh, for heaven's sake this is steven's parents remembering this this is so you know uh he said that his steven's mother said that he was screaming can't you make up your mind that's why i hate taking you that's what i hate about taking you out i guess we won't be going out to eat anymore he's screaming at her at the table what the fuck which is insane that's that's such a weird thing to do that is crazy like if everyone else is ready to order and it's a half hour later and you're still not ready to go you start making like jokey comments at like hey why don't you just order one everything or you know well let's what don't you want eat at home because we're not waiting for you anymore well at that point you start helping the person well what don't you want what sounds gross okay let's narrow it down to something and let's all help you can read right yeah you are lettered aren't you we're watching that's not in sanskrit you know yeah geez can you make your ex so this is crazy though to do this not only in public but your parents, too, is fucking nuts.
So Donna, the mom, said Debbie broke down in tears. And Donna and Ken, the parents, said they just sat there embarrassed as all fuck.
Just what do you do here? She also said we talked to him and said that's no way to treat a person. And then the rest of the meal was uncomfortable.
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In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan. This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him.
We're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world. And the suspect.
He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione. Became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history.
I was targeted, premeditated, and meant to sow terror. I'm Jesse Weber, host of Luigi, produced by Law and Crime and Twist.
This is more than a true crime investigation. We explore a uniquely American moment that could change the country forever.
He's awoken the people to a true issue. Finally, maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature of our health care system.
Listen to Law and Crimes Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus on the Wondery app, Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan. This assailant starts firing at him.
And the suspect. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione.
Became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. I was meant to sow terror.
He's awoken the people to a true issue. Listen to Law and Crimes Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus.
You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. But the parents try.
Like, they didn't just ignore it. They said, hey, you don't treat people like that.
And I think that's probably been his whole life, but he just doesn't listen. I bet the other two sons are upstanding people.
If they're not upstanding, they're probably just guys that they don't worry about.

Normal people, not abusive lunatics. You know what I mean? Because none of that came from his home life or anything.
His parents didn't have any kind of relationship like that. So this isn't something he saw at home.
What the hell went on? I don't know. So fall of 1998, Debbie decided that's about enough of this bullshit.
I have had it with this. She's ready to go.
Getting screamed at in restaurants and it's crazy.

So she announced to family members that she and Stephen were getting separated and this is when she starts telling everybody that he's been abusing me for almost 20 years now. So I'm fucking done with this shit.
Yeah. One of her friends said that she told me he once held a gun to her head and threatened to kill her.
We knew about that. So she has to figure out how to leave him because she's scared of him.
Right. So she's got to do some Julia Roberts sleeping with the enemy shit here and escape, basically.
So she left her car at work so she would think so that he would think she was at work. Okay.

And give her a couple hours of a head start to get out of here.

A friend at her job hid her car on her last day of work so Stephen wouldn't know she was

there also.

So she hid it somewhere else.

Right.

So he thought she wasn't at work.

Meanwhile, she was at work on her last day and then she went to where the car was and

fucking took off.

Okay. So she took the children to a battered women's shelter in oswego yeah new york in new york yeah in this area so steven manages somehow to get in touch with deborah on the phone at the battered women's shelter oh geez apparently call screener isn't a job that that's there yeah What's going on? on why is he every time getting content yeah if they can talk to him i would assume every time the phone rings you'd just go well whose abusive husband is this calling otherwise yeah so yeah she got in touch with deborah and arranged for her to talk to his parents his brother randy and his best friend Larry.
Okay. Steven told Larry Brown, no relation by the way, that Debbie had left him because he had videotaped her having sex with a co-worker in a lunchroom and then confronted her with it.
That's what he said. He said she just left because she was cheating on me and I caught her on tape and then she got embarrassed and took off.
Nothing to do with abuse or anything like that. I don't know how he would film their lunchroom.
Surveillance on the lunchroom at their work. Yeah.
And usually the lunchroom is the hottest place at work to get it on too. That's where you really want to get it on.
Where everybody has access to. That's where you.
Everybody has access. Wide open door all the time.
and the room's stinking like a fucking filthy microwave also that's just terrific somebody like whatever somebody just microwave some asshole made microwave popcorn somebody else made fish in it 15 minutes ago some leftovers from the night before we're all we're all dealing with it now uh he also said that his wife had been fired from a job at Ithaca College after she made sexual advances to another woman so that's what he told his friend he's like listen my wife you know skanky she's fucking everybody women Mac I don't even know I can't even not even around the ladies I can trust her she just doesn't care she can't get enough so much so that she got fired for it in the 90s when you could like you know it wasn't quite as uh strict in terms of yeah you could sleep your way to the top then you could actually ask people out and probably grab them if you wanted to back then i don't know what the hell's going on so that's what they she got fired for that but he also told his friend he'd do anything to get her back you know because according to her she said him she sounds like a real prize that you'd want to get back so debbie acquiesces and calls larry brown his friend to talk about the marriage so now she's talking to an intermediary who is not not a mediator it's his friend who knows way too much uh that isn't true and also just knows too much knows exactly it's fucking ridiculous so she i know too much um this friend said she said she was scared and needed time away to think she said she knew she had done wrong and she wanted to get her life back again that's what larry brown says right i don't know what the hell she did wrong but i don't know if she said that to get off the phone. Like, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, I know.
I did wrong shit. It's fine.
Okay. So Debbie called Larry again here.
They went back and forth a couple of times. Now, while Debbie is in the shelter, Stephen is going to hang out with his brother Randy a lot.
And Randy Brown here said that, quote, he was pretty devastated. I helped him buy new appliances for the house and he scrubbed everything he wanted her to come back and promise that things would be different so it's going to be all different now i scrubbed down the fucking the burners on the stove so now you know it's different cleaning in august you know it's going to be different um randy said that steven had a strong personality and wasn't afraid to speak his mind but he didn't think it was an abusive relationship at all or anything like that Stephen's just got a strong mind he then says quote he's not a violent person not a violent person at all he had a temper but as far as a physical abuser no I'm sure she got slapped a few times but it wasn't a daily thing he just that was in 1999 so i'm sure she got slapped a few times yes that's called abuse you can't slap your that's called violence larry yeah that is not okay but it wasn't a daily.
Oh, well, then it's fine then. Yeah, I mean, I've got to take a slap every once in a while.
Yeah, Christ, every once in a while, dinner's not what I wanted. Of course, they're going to get smacked.
What are you, crazy? Jesus, that's insane. He said, I'm not saying that it was right, but I've known him all my life, and he wasn't a violent person.
If he smacks his wife, he's a violent person. I have never.
never i've been married i was married for 15 years to someone i didn't even get along with never fucking laid a hand on her ever you know what i mean like that's not an option sorry a few times he said i'm sure she got slapped around like that is around a few times or she got slapped a few times it wasn't a daily Wow. You know, wow.
Debbie also talked to her mother-in-law, who she kind of trusted, I guess. Yeah.
Donna said, quote, she said he was being extremely abusive. She told me he gave her a black eye last winter.
At the time, they had said Steve hit her with a snowball and I believed her. Yeah.
Well, Larry said it's not violent. It's not violent.
They slap around once in a while. That was Randy, the brother that said that.
Oh, okay. Yeah, the other brown.
So she said, she goes on to say, we talked to Debbie and said they should try to give it one more chance. Oh? This is, yeah, his mom, Donna.
We said, you have a family and you can't just throw it away. We didn't know how bad it really was.

If we did, I would never have done that.

At least the mom knows. I wouldn't have convinced

her to go back if I knew there was abuse.

We just thought they weren't trying hard

enough, like a lot of people don't today.

Right.

This is why you

mind your own fucking business and don't worry about

whether people are...

She's judging the effort they put into the relationship. Don't judge it.
You don't know what goes on behind closed doors. Shut up and mind your business.
So in late November, Debbie Brown returns home to Steve. Yeah.
Returns home. Stephen called Larry Brown and asked if they could come to church with his family.
Hey, can I can I piggyback on you guys and go to church? They had never done that before, apparently. This was a new thing.
So Larry Brown saw this as, wow, they're really turning over a new leaf of the relationship. He said multiple friends said they looked like high school lovers at the time.
They were just all over each other and arms around each other, walking, and everything was hunky-dory, man. Everything was great great what did he say that made black eyes okay he didn't beat her up for a couple of weeks and clean the house yeah but the problem is that shit isn't going to last forever and it lasts about two weeks it lasts until there's frustration yeah yeah if this guy could control himself he wouldn't have been hitting you for the last 20 years.
So obviously he can't control himself. So I would be even madder like, oh, so you can control it, but you just chose not to for 20 years.
Well, fuck you then. I'd be even madder at that.
So December 21st, 1998, Donna here came home from one day from the fuel company, I guess, the mom.

They were still there before they went to Florida.

And she sees Donald Wood Jr., Debbie's brother, helping Debbie move out of the house.

That's what she comes home to.

So Donna Brown said she was crying.

I said, oh, no, is it bad again?

And she said, yes.

She told me he tried to strangle her.

Oh, my God. Yeah.
So. Is it bad again? And she said yes.
She told me he tried to strangle her. Oh my God.
Yeah. So.
Is it bad again? Is it bad again? Should I not have convinced you to do this? Right. No, Donna.
So apparently this wasn't the first one too since she's been back. She said that Stephen choked her and ripped out her belly button ring.
lord which would hurt and then Debbie took the kids and said fuck off and move to Maine her brother Woody and that's what they call him and that's Donald Wood Jr since they're both Donald's they go by give him Woody and her father Donald Wood Sr. drove to New York to pick them up.
And they moved into Donald Wood Jr., her brother's mobile home on Lower Middle Road in Lebanon, Maine. Okay.
So Debbie said that he's going to try to find me. Like it's going to happen.
So this is going to be a thing. She said that he, quote, he grabbed my ears and said, this is a promise, not a threat threat if you leave me again with my kids I'll kill you and the entire family I will kill everybody so you know she believed him was taking him at face value on that and Steven believed she'll be back this has happened before i sweet talker she comes back no worries like this is bullshit he even to the extent this happened by the way she left on december 21st she takes off yeah he goes out and buys christmas gifts for the kids put it under a tree that he put up he puts up a tree decorates the house puts, all this shit, thinking they'll all be back by Christmas.

Ain't no thing.

It's Christmas.

She's not going to stay gone the whole time.

But then Christmas comes.

He can't get a hold of her anywhere.

No one will tell him where she is, and she ain't coming back.

So he's sitting here with a Christmas tree.

That's a sad Christmas for this asshole.

A deservedly sad Christmas.

Yeah.

He's earned it. Yeah.
No shit. Soven tried to turn to debbie's relatives to find her uh her uncle ed said he called me my wife other family members too now edward strong who he called her uncle is uh a police chief in the area as well um he said that Stephen had threatened to commit suicide.

He was just a time bomb waiting to happen.

So basically she moves in with her brother.

It's a brown double wide trailer in Lebanon.

That's where they live.

And this is with her brother,

Woody Donald Jr.

And her brother,

his brothers are her brother's longtime girlfriend,

Linda Malcolm.

And also living there was a friend of his brothers named

Thank you. Woody, Donald Jr., and her brother's longtime girlfriend, Linda Malcombe.
And also living there was a friend of his brother's named Christopher Brouillard. So there's three people in the double wide already.
It's a full house. Let's bring one more in.
Let's bring one more in with two kids and everything. But, you know, that's your sister.
Obviously, you'd want her to come there. It's just a full house.
It's crowded. um it's at 61 lower middle road it's a mobile home on it's on a wooded road about a half mile off route 202 yeah so um she also filed for a protective order and a divorce right away too oh she's fucking serious this time yeah and so she's settling in you know living here um now donna brown um steven's mom here lived next door to them for a long time but she said after hearing from other people what's been going on she said she was shocked at how bad she couldn't believe it right yeah she couldn't believe it because when she files for divorce and goes for a protective order she goes to court and donna hears what's what's been happening here and donna said my eyes were opened that day it was disgusting i never knew i really didn't know that kind of thing was going on if we had known he was hitting her i would have turned him in even if he is my own son she said he tried to choke me yeah i guess she thought that was semi, I don't understand it.
Thought it was hyperbole? I mean, rose-colored glasses? What are you doing? Yes, but the parents seem to, they don't take his shit. That's one of the things.
They're not big on, oh, just forgive him, it's okay, when they know what's going on. So it's very strange for him to come out of this relationship and out of this out of that that family yeah so debbie started working as a maid and she starts dating chris brouillard as well yeah yeah who's a 30 year old guy he is described as a mud racing buddy of her brothers who lives there as well they love to go mudding that's their thing going out mudding they built their built their own trucks for it.
They built other people's trucks for it. Fuck yeah.
That's what they do. And Chris Brouillard, Debbie told family, Chris said, I'm not going to let anybody hurt you.
So, yep. I guess they said that Whitney, the daughter, said that this new life and her mom's new relationship and everything being chill in the trailer was a huge weight off my shoulders at 10, 11 years old.
Kids feel the stress. You know what I mean? It's on them.
So she said, we were actually living a normal life, not in fear. We weren't wondering what's going to happen when the door opens.
Is dad going to come in and be pissed off? This is going on. Neighbors around say everybody that lives in the trailer is friendly.
Sometimes a bit rowdy. They get partying a bit over here.
I mean, they are mud racing trailer dwellers, so there's going to be a party once in a while, let's be honest here. It might be a little booze fun from weekend to weekend.
It gets more than that uh one neighbor said they would sometimes go out and shoot at one or two in the morning okay which is just rude at that point and you're not doing that sober not no no jesus i'm gonna go out and get the guns and go do some target practice at two in the morning is definitely a drunk thing that's everybody just wake up sober like me at midnight let's go shoot let's go shooting this is drunk shooting in the dark yeah um he said as long as they didn't shoot in my direction i didn't mind that's what the neighbor said i guess he goes to bed late too so fuck it now debbie uh said she felt safe in lebanon she's working at uh york cleaning company as a maid so she's's getting a little life going on here. Steven also I guess sort of moves on, but not really.
How so? Well, he finds a girlfriend but continues to tell her how he's going to go get his wife and kids back, which is very weird, I would say, right? That's not normal. That's not moving on.
That's not moving on at all. And what's wrong with this lady who's like, okay.

Oh, you are?

Okay.

All right.

Well, I'll just be riding on the back of your motorcycle until you do.

Like, no one's doing that. Can we take another spin around the block?

All right.

Jesus.

Who the fuck would stick around with that?

Well, who the fuck is Patricia Teeter?

Okay.

T-E-E-T-E-R, which sounds like an affectionate name for a small pair of boobs oh you got some nice little teeters on you there look at that all right i like them small i don't mind yeah nice teeters yeah she's a good girl uh how she's stacked well she's got teeters but some teeters on her but they're nice though Nostle taters on her. So she's 39 years old.
She's a divorcee as well.

And Ray. act well she's got taters but some taters on her but they're nice though that's a little taters on so she's 39 years old she's a divorcee as well and raising two teenage daughters so great three women to put steven in the middle of is perfect um yeah she had been through a difficult divorce apparently so a mutual friend of theirs said well your wife left you and you're having a hard time with it and she went through a difficult divorce so you guys might be perfect for each other oh boy and hooks them up um other friends said went to teeter and were like don't go out with that fucking lunatic that guy's a lunatic like this one mutual friend's the only person that said this is a good matchup everyone else was like no no no um i guess teeter worked at whcuam radio and a newscaster there who worked there um teeter was a receptionist there she wasn't on air talent or anything like that said that she told him about steven and the strange things he was saying she said that steven had was had been threatening his wife in front of her like i'll do this i saying, quote, she's going to get it if she wins custody of these children in court.
She's going to get it. Why do people do this? Man.
So she's at work. Oh, my new boyfriend says his ex-wife's going to get it if he doesn't get the kids.
He's just a wonderful guy. So this guy at work said, quote, I told her to back off.
You have your own life. You don't need to get involved with this guy.
And another talk show host from the radio station said that Patricia Teeter told him that Steve had threatened to kill himself. And so this guy said both, both of those things, I'm going to kill her.
I'm going to kill myself. These are all red flags you should be looking at and a new boyfriend.
Uh, this guy, the talk show host guy said, whenever there's a suicide threat, you need to consider them at risk of committing homicide as well. A majority of times when there's a suicide, there's also a homicide at the same time.
Murder, suicide. I don't know if that's the majority of times people commit suicide, but it happens.
I wonder what... I don't think so.
I think a lot of people just kill themselves, yeah. Yeah, it's rare that people take people with them.
Murder-suicide is much more rare than regular suicide. It's got to be, right? I think that's anecdotally off the top of my head, yeah.
Who's Robin Williams kill? Exactly, yeah. I don't remember.
Did Phil Hartman's wife kill herself? Yeah. Did she? She did, right? She did.
She did. There's a murder-suicide.
There you go. Did Aaron Hernandez, I mean, apart from the ones that got him in prison? Oh, shit.
Well, yeah, I guess those are going to be really long. Yeah, is that prolonged? Late-stage murder-suicide, that would be.
Do you call that murder-suicide? I don't think so at that point. I don't think you can.
So February 1999 here debbie visits the office of colonial homes that's a company that builds homes in lebanon in lebanon maine to speak to a saleswoman about buying a mobile home okay she's ready to settle down um then she returned a week later to fill out an application as well this the woman who was working with her said she said her divorce would soon be over and she was looking to purchase a home soon. So filling out an application.
Now, March 22nd, 23rd, somewhere in here, 1999, a New York court grants Debbie Brown custody of both children who are at this point 16 and 11. So that day,

she also gets the court

to do a restraining order

against him as well.

Yeah.

So Randy Brown,

Stephen's brother,

said that Stephen

was fucking furious

because Debbie showed up

at court with her new boyfriend,

Chris Brulio.

Oh, no.

Pissed him off good. Yeah.

He had Patricia there as well but she's

not allowed to do that.

He was also

infuriated even more when he came

home after the

hearing and found out that

his wife's relatives had taken

everything that belonged to Debbie

and the children out of his house.

All the children shit everything. Yeah while he was at court they went in and clean the fucking place out.
Oh, and so he gave it to her. What happened? Yeah.
Yeah. Just to take with her, all the kids shit and all her shit, but not his shit.
They left his shit, but the kids shit and her shit. So anyway, he was infuriated anyway.
And then he walked in the door and found that out and was like, you imagine the choking that he would be doing if there was someone to choke he lost control of her then lost control of the kids and then lost control of anything to affect her with it because he's restrained by it now he lost all of their shit so he can't even control that i mean there's nothing that you can't even say you can't have your stuff then there's nothing to control disarmed the shit out of this man. Yep.
So, yeah. Now, at this point,

apparently... I mean, there's nothing that you can't even say you can't have your stuff then.
There's nothing to control. They just disarmed the shit out of this man.
Yep. So, yeah.
Now, at this point, apparently, somehow, the money, I guess he's supposed to pay child support. He's supposed to do all this stuff.
He can't afford his truck anymore. He's got a brand new 99 Ford Expedition, which he probably shouldn't have bought.
That's a very expensive car. At the time, that was a $50,000 truck, $55,000 truck, which now it's a $100,000 truck.
But I mean, that was at the time a very expensive truck. So yeah.
And Randy, the brother, said that, quote, it really sank in when he found out Debbie had a boyfriend. Then the judge said he lost his family, lost his kids, and he was starting to lose his material possessions.
Things happened and he didn't have control over them anymore. Tailspin, babe.
Yep. And we know Steven does not like not having control.
No. So the next day, the day after the hearing, um, Patricia Teeter tells her boss at the radio station.
She needs a few days off to go up to Maine with her boyfriend.

She said she'd return in time to chaperone her 12-year-old daughter's class trip to Washington, D.C. later in the week.

But she's got to run up there for a few days.

Okay.

Now, Debbie, meanwhile, she goes back to Maine and has a nice week.

Nice week.

She does things with the kids.

Her brother and Chris, they went mud racing.

They're going to They went fishing. And, you know, they did family things, they said.
We just hung out and did family things. Yeah, Maine summer, not summer, but spring family living here.
So March 28, 1999. That's a Sunday.
As we know, Monday morning is 1257 a.m. So anyway, one of the friends said, I sense something was wrong that day.
Now that afternoon, Debbie and Chris Brouillard took the kids to the Holiday Inn in Portsmouth to swim in the pool. The Holiday Inn pool.
Is that a thing that we do? I don't know. Maybe it's a heated pool because it's March 28th in Maine.
That is not swimming weather at all. It's probably an indoor heat pool.
Indoor, one of those. Yeah, probably.
She said that outside, I think it was outside though, she said outside she caught a glimpse of a stocky man staring at them through a sliding glass door. She didn't see his face, but she suspected it was Steven.
Oh, boy. She said then she saw the man because he was outside.
They were inside. Then she saw the man get into a car.
So she went out and looked and the car had New Hampshire license plates. Oh, shit.
And she got really nervous and they took the kids home like they were like let's get out of here let's get out of here i think that's steven sorry about it so chris told her not to worry about it look i'm here with you don't sweat it you know i'm not gonna let this guy do anything to you um now as they went to bed that night debbie noticed that the motion lights behind the house kept turning on and off now but they live in the woods. So believe me, as someone who has motion lights and lives in the woods, it's a deer.
It's a fucking skunk. It's a raccoon.
It's a fox. The wind blew a tree.
It's a cat. Yeah.
There's tons of animals, wind, everything else. So they were doing that.
And Chris told her it's an animal. We have tons.
Don't worry about it. just go to sleep.
No one's stalking you, you're good. Then at 12.57 a.m., we get a domestic violence call from Whitney.
Now you go, where's Chris? What's going on? Where is everybody? Well, let's find out here. Okay, this is what happened according to Whitney.
In, you know, 12.30 in the morning here, a woman frantically knocks on their door. OK, of the trailer.
She said she was having car trouble. So her this is Debbie's brother, Donald Wood Jr.
He's a mechanic. He says, well, come out here and help you.
No problem. I mean, it's a small town.
Someone knocks on your door, says they have car trouble. You help them.
That's all there there is to it your car was running and it stopped running there's a reason for that i'm sure i can diagnose it let's let's give it a shot here let's go so he walks outside and goes to help okay half hour later another knock at the door yeah now he is nowhere to be seen donald wood jr it's this woman again, same woman. Now, Whitney answers the door, and it's the same woman again.
She said that, yeah, the guy that came out, Donald there, he's working on my car right now, but he told me to come back and ask if you could get Chris. I don't know who that is.
He just said tell whoever's in there to tell Chris to come help him. He needs help from Chris.
Okay. So, you know, I don't know.
Whatever. So they said, okay.
Whitney went and told Chris. And Chris said, well, I mean, if he needs help out there in the dark, I'm not going to tell him to fuck off.
So Chris gets up and heads out, follows the woman down into the dark, basically, out into the street, into the car. So within 15 minutes, more knock on the door.
Oh, my God. It's this woman again.
Okay. Now she knocks on the door and asks for Donald's girlfriend, Linda.
And says, I've been told to tell Linda to come and to bring her Chevy Blazer as well. Not just to walk out with me, but to get in the Chevy Blazer and come there because they need it.
They need it. Now, by now, Debbie Brown is awake and hearing stuff going on in the living room.
She's hearing her daughter's voice talking. She's like, what the fuck is going on out there? So she was thinking that something's not right here.
And I guess one of the things she thought that she told her daughter is why would they keep sending the woman back? We don't even know. Wouldn't one of our people come back and say this shit? Like, why would they send her back? But I guess they're really arms deep.
They're holding up. One's holding the transmission up.
Yeah. We need somebody else.
And they're not saying, like, go get my tool or go get this. They want people and cars and shit, which is like, how many people do you need? And why do you need a Chevy Blazer to fix a car? It doesn't make any sense.
One person by one person by one person. This is right.
Unless they need a jump. I don't understand it.
Yeah. So Debbie gets out and gets in her own car.
Okay. She goes, okay, yeah, I'll go go with you gets in her own car and is about to pull out of the driveway here she's pulling out of the driveway and then out of nowhere whitney hears her pull back up the driveway and back i mean laying on the horn and screaming he's here he's here he's here he's here oh laying in the middle of nowhere, you know, in the middle of the night.
Now, the neighbors don't mind because they don't mind gunshots, but this is loud. So, wow, that is fucking crazy.
Apparently, Debbie had gone out and gotten into the blazer that was requested, Linda's blazer. And she ended up, she pulled back in because she saw a rental car parked next to the driveway, the same one that she saw at the Holiday Inn.
And she knew. That's why she fucking went back up the driveway.
She started yelling for her brother and Chris. She didn't know they were gone because she was sleeping kind of half out of it for the beginning of this.
She tried to use her cell phone to call 911 but but couldn't get it to work. Oh, no.
Fucking out of not in service range. Yeah, thanks a lot.
Exactly. So she starts screaming and yelling, he's here, he's here, help me, help me, help me, because she thought the guys were in the house and they could come out and help her, but they didn't.
And it's only Whitney in the house. She's the only person in there.
Oh, no. And Linda, the girlfriend, she might be still sleeping.
So this is from the window. Whitney watches two armed figures descend on her mother's car, smash in the window, and climb in the car and take off with her.
With her in the car. With Debbie in the car.
Took her with him. Yes, so this is why she's calling 911 frantically going, I just watched this crazy shit out my window and my mother was gone and all this shit.
Oh, dear Christ. Stephen Brown, by the way, obviously is the culprit here.
Right. When she was backing out of the driveway, Stephen broke the window and climbed into the passenger side of the blazer with a shotgun in her face.
Holy. Yes, and ordered her to drive to a nearby parking lot.
Um, and, and when they get to the parking lot, he tells her to get out of the car and then Debbie is forced into another car with Patricia Teeter sitting there and him. Okay.
And he keeps telling her, if you do as I say, I won't hurt you. If you do as I say, I won't hurt you.
Okay, this is fucking nuts. And Debbie doesn't even know this other woman.
She's never met her, saw her before. She doesn't know who the fuck is this lady.
That's why she was effective as a door knocker. So, yeah, this is wild.
And Patricia Teeter is trying to keep telling her, too. We're not going to hurt you.
Just do what we want, and we're not going to hurt you. Don't worry about it.
What do they want? Patricia then tells her, this is fucking insane, tells her, quote, we're all going to live happily ever after. We're both going to be his wife now.
What's going on with this lady? She's fucking wackier than anybody else in the story at this point. No kidding.
She is, wow. She is like so abused that she just, that's her role as just secondary person.
She's just okay to be a subservient extra wife. Holy shit.
We're all going to live happily ever after. We're both going to be his wife now.
It's okay. We're all wives.
We're all wives together. It's going to be fine.
That's what she's telling her. This is going to be this is gonna be great the guy you're terrified of you want nothing to do with now you're gonna be in a threesome marriage with him isn't that great we're a thruple now wow um that is fucking nuts and they also said hey don't worry about your brother and his friend there because we just tied we tied them up and put them behind the house.
So they're back there.

So whoever finds them, they're just tied up behind the house.

They're all right here.

Now back at the house, because the police show up.

Right.

The cops show up.

They've been called.

Of course, because you've got a 12-year-old screaming.

Now all the cars are gone now.

Everything is done. But the cops show up, and they immediately house, you know, with flashlights for clues here of anything.
And behind the house, about 50 feet from the house, they find Chris Brouillard and Donald Wood Jr. partially buried in the woods.
Whoa. Very dead.
They both suffered head trauma and multiple stab wounds. What in the hell? Yeah.
That's fucking crazy. So Whitney tells the cops, my mother has been taken by my father, period.
That's what happened. Period.
So she said, we just had a custody hearing. He tried to tell the family judge his ex-wife was unstable, and he said that she abused him.
All this shit. Now, inside the kidnapping car here, they drive all night, the three in the car.
This is Patricia, Stephen, and Debbie. And it's fucking nuts.
They drive all night. They stop in Hampton, New Hampshire to to pick up patricia's osmobile achieva which is probably the worst that there's no achieving in an achieva put it that way you have achieved you have achieved nothing if you have an osmobile achieva the old mobile i mean it was ugly making it yeah this was an ugly one let me achieve i remember it was likeobiles anymore.
It was like rounded. It kind of looked like a Taurus-y type thing, I believe, the Achieva.
Achieva? Like a mix between a Taurus and a Lumina is what I remember. Oh, no.
Not a good car. I see it looking like a- That midsize sedan.
Yeah. Late 90s midsize sedan.
Were they four doors? Rounded edges. I don't fucking know.
Jesus, I can't even picture it i think so so i see this it was a uh something not the skylar what is that i remember one had like fins on it you know what i mean oh i don't know maybe not like fins fins but like like that fin uh uh uh metal with the with the brush strokes in it kind of thing okay That's what I'm seeing, but I don't know. I can't picture it.
Achieva's a rounded off thing for some reason in the late 90s, but I could be wrong. So Achieva in tow.
Yeah. They pick up the Achieva.
They're eventually going to drop off the rental car, return it after wiping it down thoroughly of all fingerprints and anything else. So they're heading toward New York.
They're heading west toward New York state. And during the drive, Steven starts quit just like harassing Debbie with questions saying, do you love me? Things like that, which clearly not.
These are the worst questions. Like the most uncomfortable ones yeah and she would say no and then she'd say maybe i don't know um and she was essentially trying to get him to not lose his temper at this point and you know murder her in the car what's the answer that makes you turn back and leave me alone that's exactly that's the answer that's the one here what doesn't get me killed so in the early the next morning um uh tim wood who is debbie's brother calls donna brown steven's mother and wakes her up and he said where's steve where's steve and she said he's at work and i guess the brother then tim wood started crying and he said there'd been a double homicide in maine and donnie's involved and we don't know what's going on so donna brown said well let me i'll go make sure he's at work so she apparently had a broken knee but she crutched her way out behind her house to look and see if if the fuel truck was there or gone.
And she saw Stephen's oil delivery truck parked in the driveway and knew he wasn't at work. And she said, quote, I didn't think I'd be able to make it back to the house.
I had this sick sense that there would be something wrong. So even the mother's like, oh, so family said they think it is.
It must have been the restraining order that did it. Debbie's uncle, who is the Kittery police chief, Edward Strong, said that's definitely what set him off.
The judge awarded her full custody with no visitation rights for him. Oh, shit.
Yeah. Because of the abuse, they said no anything for now.
It's a complete restraining order. Right.
Can't go to your family. Yeah.
And it's interesting. So the that's fucking crazy.
So there's obviously a multi-state manhunt now because they don't even know what goddamn direction they went in. And they have no fucking clue.
We know he didn't go east. Yeah.
We know that for sure. So they're searching everywhere.
They got helicopters searching. They're searching all over the place.
They find at STS Construction Company, they find a black Chevy Blazer registered to Linda Malcom, the girlfriend there, who lived at the home. Now, she was unharmed at home.

And inside the

vehicle, though, there's broken glass and

bloodstains in the vehicle. So they're like, uh-oh.

This isn't good.

It's a lot.

Now, they're also,

they know Patricia Teeter is missing

as well, so they're looking for her,

but they released a sketch of her but did

not identify her as definitely the woman traveling with Brown.

Just a person we'd like to talk to, basically.

Person of interest, yeah.

Person of interest of chit-chatting with here.

So police are searching for Debbie's 1999 Ford Expedition and a black 1996 Osmobile Achieva

owned by Teeter.

Both have New York plates, and the authorities caution people that Stephen may be armed. A spokesman for the Maine police said that the only lead was a possible sighting at about 3 p.m.
of the suspect's car with a man and a woman inside. It was on Route 13 in Leo Minster, Massachusetts.
But it wasn't reported until like 5.30, two and a half hours later. So obviously nobody could go look at it.
And that's not the direction they were going in anyway. So it doesn't matter.
It wasn't them. Yeah, so the authorities in Maine said they didn't know that Debbie even had a protection order against her husband.
but they did say it does apply, even though it's not in the state it was issued in. Now, Teeter's work friend here, he said, I can't believe that Patricia would have gone with Steve if she knew that he planned to kidnap his estranged wife.
I don't think that that was part of the plan. Murder people and kidnap her.
This person said, quote, she's not a saint. She's no Mother Teresa, but she's a very

level-headed person. Okay.
And he worries that Teeter is also going to be murdered here as well. So there's already two murders and possibly going to be two more here.
So they said one of the friends said the only thing we can hope for is that he hasn't done any harm to her. Hopefully he'll come to his senses and release her unharmed.

Yeah, one neighbor

said, said the only thing we can hope for is that he hasn't done any harm to her. Hopefully he'll come to his senses and release her unharmed.

Yeah.

One neighbor said

they're optimistic that Debbie's going to be found

safe, but they'd also fear the worst.

Obviously. What a dumb

thing to say. I mean, you know, I'm optimistic,

but

this neighbor said that they're

all distraught over the

deaths of the two guys because they were good guys. One guy said they were just nice people.
That's what they did. They helped people and look what happened to them.
This is the reason you don't help people. This is why you don't help.
This is why you mind your own business. So Stephen's mom here, Stephen's friends and family and mom and everybody else are trying to figure out what the fuck is happening.
How did we not know this is going to happen? Donna Brown, the mom, wondered if she could have done anything to prevent this. Maybe I could have helped.
But people say that this type of thing, domestic violence experts, that sort of thing, they say that this is a lot of times you're not going to see it. So there's no way to know.
It's behind closed doors, and they keep it behind closed doors on purpose. You know, this is, you know, one of the director of research and criminal justice for the New York State Office of Domestic Violence said, Very often batterers have a Jekyll and Hyde personality.
He may seem like the nicest guy in the world to people on the outside, but behind closed doors, he's a very different person for his wife and family. So where the fuck could they be? Okay.
Well, Teeter gets on the phone with a friend from work. They get a call.
And she said that she was on a weekend camping trip with Steve. So she's like, I don't know what the hell any of that's all about.
Because they're like, dude, there's a lot of shit going on. And she's like, I don't know.
I'm know i'm on a camping trip and the friend said dude your name's on the news in connection with murders and kidnappings this is not good bro like you need to fix this shit teeter said wouldn't give her location but she did tell her friend she could see the albany skyline from the parking lot which is a sad skyline to look at, Albany. Not much going on there.

Is there much of a skyline?

Not much of a skyline.

So around 5.45 a.m. this day, they check into two rooms at the Econo Lodge in East Greenish, New York.

Hell yeah.

It's outside of Albany.

There's, I guess, you know, they get in there.

There's two different rooms, one for Stephen and Debbie and one for Patricia.

Really?

This is weird as fuck, right?

Thank you. Um, there's, I guess, um, you know, they get in there.
There's two different rooms, one for Steven and Debbie and one for Patricia.

This is weird as fuck, right?

It's getting real weird.

Um, I guess Steven pulled the phone out of the wall and went and gave it to teeter.

Like here, you keep this in your room with you. I need you to be in your own room while I'm in here with my ex-wife.

That's wild shit.

Okay.

Then we'll all be happy together.

Excellent. When do we get to thruffle? Yeah, when is that going on? So Stephen went into the bathroom and scrubbed himself off.
He's got blood and all sorts of shit on him. After a while, he came out with his clothes, and Patricia took them away to go wash them because they have blood on them and shit.
So Debbie was kept in the room. She had no idea that there was even a search to find her.
She has no idea if anybody knows that she's gone. She has no fucking idea.
Anything. She doesn't know her brother and her boyfriend are dead.
She knows nothing at this point. Just sitting in the room.
She doesn't know where her daughter is. The two here, Teeter and Steve, were telling her that they were tied up behind the garage and gagged.
So that's it. So at one point, Steven was out of the room.
She tried, Debbie tried to turn on the TV to get the news on maybe and get, uh, you know, something. But when she heard him coming back, she had to turn it off quick.
So, um, I guess she would, uh, Patricia was asking Debbie. Um, she was telling Debbie the whole time, look, if we get caught, you'll say I wasn't involved in this, right? Like lady to lady, right? You'll be cool about this, right? You're incredibly involved.
Yeah, so Debbie would tell them, yeah, yeah, no, don't worry about it. Yeah, no, you're good.
You're cool. You know, that's fine.
Now, during this, Stephen doesn't beat her, but they won't get into exactly what it is, but I think we can guess. He does, in the court documents, sexually assaults her twice over the course of the night.
I think we can probably extrapolate from that. And he kept telling her that all of this is her fault.
All your fault, Debbie. So Steve told her he'd release her in the morning, but I doubt she believed that.
You know what I mean? You know, I don't think so here. I died.
It's going to probably kill Teeter, too. Who the hell knows? so steven kept telling her though he loves her but i love you and i want to be with you but i'm not

going to be taken alive by the way if i get caught you know whatever you know she's used to this um

she's dealt with him before but now she's trapped in a motel room with a guy with a sawed-off shotgun and an assault rifle laying on the bed in front of her so this isn't good um she kept he kept saying that he wasn't going to go to jail and that there's going to be bloodshed and all this type of shit. So, wow.
6 a.m.

Somehow, based on her friend telling the cops it's a motel that you can see the Albany skyline from,

they check out all the hotels in a circle around Albany, all the motels.

Yeah.

And they find their car in the motel parking lot.

So they find the fucking Econo Lodge, and the SWAT team comes in.

Shortly before they surround the area, shortly before 6 a.m.,

they heard explosions.

They did flash grenades and kicked the doors down and everything else.

Wow.

They find Steven. They find Debbie.
She's alive. Wow.
He didn't kill her. She's in the fucking room.
So there's obviously they take everybody. Debbie said, next thing you know, I'm in a cruiser.
The officer pulled the handcuffs off of me and said, I can't believe we got you out of there alive. No shit.
Holy shit. Like there was, we thought no way we're finding this woman alive.
No fucking way.

Especially he already killed two people.

Why the hell would he leave you alive?

He was going to do it today, right?

He was going to torture her all night and then do something today and then get back home and act like he was home the whole time.

Yep.

Act like they were on a camping trip because that was apparently their alibi here.

So they take everybody to the police station here.

Steven insists to the police that he, quote, didn't want any of this to happen. Well, I mean, you know, you kind of did a lot here.
He tells a Maine state police detective that his loss in court and a letter requiring him to pay child support angered him so much that he drove to Maine with a shotgun and assault rifle and a knife and some rope to, quote, talk to his wife. It's a fascinating interview kit.
That's what he brings to talk. That's, that's what I do.
And I want to have a chat with anybody. I was like, well, where's my rope knife and fucking shotgun and assault rifle.
So they said, well, how'd you even know where she was? How'd you know about that place place and you know how he knew restraining order

oh it's got the address has to has to you have to tell the person where they have to stay away from

yeah so it's a double-edged sword because now they can't just say stay away from me well what's

what's away from me stay away from where then you could be in the same place as her and you

wouldn't be responsible for because they didn't tell you where to stay away from but they said

you can't go to 61 lower middle road and he went well that's where she is right there yeah

In the next video, could be in the same place as her and you wouldn't be responsible for it because they didn't tell you where to stay away from but they said you can't go to 61 lower middle road and he went well that's where she is right there yeah in the early hours of december 4th 2024 ceo brian thompson stepped out onto the streets of midtown manhattan this assailant starts firing at him and the suspect he has been identified as luigi nicholas mangioni became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. I was meant to sow terror.
He's awoken the people to a true issue. Listen to Law & Crimes Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus.
You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan.
This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him. We're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world.
And the suspect. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione.
Became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. I was targeted, premeditated, and meant to sow terror.
I'm Jesse Weber, host of Luigi, produced by Law & Crime and Twist. This is more than a true crime investigation.
We explore a uniquely American moment that could change the country forever. He's awoken the people to a true issue.
Finally, maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature of our health care system. Listen to Law and Crimes Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus.
You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It's wild.
Debbie said in a written statement, quote, to protect abused women and children, they shouldn't be asked to to give their address in court proceedings but then the court says then it wouldn't be a legal document because you can't tell the person where to stay away from so it's specifics yeah there's nothing good there's no way to do this here um and also she said that she wants to help battered women after all of this because you know um now police here are like oh so you went to talk with knives, guns, you know, duct tape, rope, that sort of shit, you know, kidnapping shit. In case we run out of things to talk about, I want to talk about the amount of strands on this rope.
It's pretty good. Yeah, it's made of hemp.
It's a good one, I'm telling you. So now Teeter over here is trying to minimize her involvement at first.

Right.

She said she just thought Steven wanted to talk to his ex-wife and that's it.

Oh, boy.

That is fucking wild.

By the way, the executive director of a family crisis center said abusers regularly tipped off to their spouse's whereabouts through court records.

There's no way.

And they said that we can't not have him on there. So again, he said that sometimes that this guy said he sometimes or she sometimes advises people not to seek protection orders if they don't want their spouses to know where they're staying okay they'll say like do you have a good safe place that no one knows where you are just stay there and don't fucking do this because otherwise he's going to know right where you are yeah so it's a situational thing yeah and she said you can't tell someone to stay away from someplace unless you say where that someplace is.
Yeah. Fair enough.
So teeter after a while, you think teeter is going to sit in the fucking interrogation box and be hard as nails. No, no teeters going to spill it.
And she does. Yeah.
Yep. She told the police that she and Brown left Newfield on March 27th.
So Steven could talk to his wife and children about her family's interference, quote unquote. He asked her to bring a shotgun, and when she picked him up, she saw he was carrying a knife and some rope in a camouflage bag.
They drove to New Hampshire where they rented a car and approached the mobile home. She said that shortly before midnight, though, he just, his anger just exploded.
It's too much. So she said she lured Wood out of the house, Donald Wood Jr., by saying her car was broken down when he got outside.
Brown, Stephen jumped out from the bushes and hit him over the head with a pit in the back of the head with a pipe that he had picked up off the side of the road on the way there. At some point saw a pipe on the side of the road and picked it up pull over keep that too yeah pull over i'm gonna grab this pipe quick so he hits donald brown or uh donald wood over the head and drags him into the woods okay at this point here um teeter goes back to the house and said that Donald Wood needs Chris Brouillard's help.

Now, as Brown was attacking Chris Brouillard in the same fashion, Teeter told police she had to walk away because she didn't want to or need to see what he was doing. okay but then she returned to lure returned to lure Linda outside, but Debbie came out instead, and she said she saw her husband.
She jumped in the blazer and drove up the driveway and back, honking the horn and calling for help. And Whitney Brown was in there.
Teeter said Stephen told his wife that he, quote, could have killed her, wanted to do was talk. Teeter said that Brown told his wife the other two guys were tied up and put in his father's in her father's camper which was parked next to the garage.
So acting on Stephen's instructions Teeter says she rented two adjoining rooms one for herself and one for them and to prevent Debra from calling for help, he ripped

the phone out and gave it to her.

And during the

day, Petita was the one who

washed the bloodstained clothes and ran errands

for him. And while she was away

from the motel, she called a friend who told

her that there was murders

and that the police are looking for you guys.

So basically what happened

was he hit Wood over the head,

and Donald Wood Jr. fights back, as we'll talk about,

and then it got ugly from there.

Yeah.

So this is what the attorney general is going to present.

Although Teeter knew that Brown had threatened violence against Debbie

if he lost custody of her offspring,

she nonetheless agreed to this excursion.

She then watched Brown pack her car with a small arsenal,

including an SKS assault rifle.

Wow.

I'm sorry. of her offspring, she nonetheless agreed to this excursion.
She then watched Brown pack her car with a small arsenal, including an SKS assault rifle,

a 20-gauge shotgun, ammunition for the weapons, and a pair of knives.

He also stowed duct tape, rope, and two handheld radios aboard the vehicle as well.

This is a plan.

This is not, this is crazy. That is planning to be separated from someone and still needing communication.
That's frightening. That's terrifying.
So they departed from New York early the next morning. Once in New Hampshire, they temporarily abandoned the car, Teeter's car, rented another one, went to Lebanon, Maine, located the trailer.
And they spent the afternoon and evening spying on Debbie and her brother and the kids, stalking, and formulating a plan of how they were going to do this. Yep.
Okay. So, fuck, this is crazy.
She said they watched them go swimming at the Holiday Inn. They pretended the rental car broke down on the roadside and what they did was on the way back from around the Holiday Inn time, when they were going to the Holiday Inn, I believe it was, they pulled over, Teeter and Steve pulled over, he hid in the car and Teeter acted like her car was broken down on the side of the road, debbie drove right past them oh they were hoping debbie would pull over to hell and she didn't they just kept driving help people no not not interested here so then they watched them swim and do everything like that um so anyway uh steven brown picked up a piece of lead pipe by the side of the road which he added to all all of his other weapons.
And obviously, we told you, Teeter came up to the door. Brown instructed Teeter to approach the trailer and attempt to lure one of the male occupants outside by claiming she was having car trouble.
So Brown told her that if she succeeded, he would incapacitate them and just put them off to the side so she did she got donald wood brown

hit him over the head with a pipe as he approached the rental car wood tried to fight back and kicked steven in the balls oh which is great this is i want to watch this scene clang ow fuck you motherfuck pal oh my balls jesus get back here this is in the pitch black in the woods this is If he didn't end up dead, this would be hilarious. He really went deep.
That's great. Yep.
And then he again smashed him over the head with a lead pipe. And so badly that the medical examiner would later say that was a fatal blow with this lead pipe.
But he still, Stephen still stabs his body several times and buries it under the leaves in the neck torso and head stabs him so he's angry that's what that is yeah that's what that is the blow to the head according to Teeter she said it made an eerie sound and she said she'd never forget it yeah cracking a fucking skull open is an eerie sound so she said he then dragged donald wood into the woods out of teeter sight and stabbed him a couple of times and um obviously that that wasn't even necessary he was already dead so then 45 minutes goes by that's when she went back for chris brouillard and when he came out he didn't steven was like i better get good shot in first my balls are sore yeah yeah it's sore balls right now yeah so he hits he uh he hits Chris in the back of the head with a pipe and does the same thing drags him into the woods and uh all of that now apparently as he's hitting him in the head he he's forcing him to the ground, questioning about him, his relationship with Debbie, you fucking my wife, shit like that. Um, according to this, he strikes him in the back of the head, drags him into the woods, stabs him in the head, neck and chest as well.
Then that's when Teeter went back to ask for Linda. And then Debbie came out instead and Stephen forced her at gunpoint into the rental car, drove away.
And Teeter said that the whole time he was saying, you better hope we don't get pulled over because it's going to be a bloodbath if we do. That is crazy.
Their plan was to eliminate everybody one by one. That's fucking disturbing.
One comes out, kill him, stack him up. Another comes out, kill him, stack him up.

It's fucking really creepy.

Wow.

So Debbie said that her husband here, Steve, made her tell him that she loved him and that she wanted to, quote, make love to him. she said that he made promises that he would that she would she made he made her promise that she

would keep in touch with him if he went to prison or to the quote nut house for his crimes i need you to keep talking forever yeah and he's like she's like absolutely i'd never leave your side you know she's just like get me the fuck out of this room with the psychopath so um yeah she then debbie gets you know she's free now and, holy fuck. She talks to the press about the ordeal.
She said it was a shock learning that her brother and her boyfriend were dead. And I had no idea.
And she said they said they'd take care of me and that they'd always protect me and that nothing would happen. And now they're both dead.
So she feels guilty also. This is all come stemming from her.
They were nice enough. In her mind, her brother was nice enough to bring her into his house and all this.
And he's even nice enough to go out at 1 in the morning and try to fix somebody's car. Right.
And he got killed for it. Offering protection.
She said also she used all of the skills she learned during her abusive marriage to survive the ordeal. She said she knew how to manage him at certain times.

Certain times he's in a rage.

There's no managing him.

But after a while, I guess she learned a lot of tricks of how to manage his emotions off the walls.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Her uncle, the police chief, said she's a survivor.

Abused women like her know how to appease the abuser to get along and wait for the opportunity to escape.

And that's what she did. Right.
Now, the jail here he's at the jail and um his family by the way is like they're talking about him like he's dead like they're oh he's they're talking about steven like steven's dead past tense they're done with him yep that's what they said ken brown the dad said those families have lost those two boys and we've lost our son. A lot of lives have been devastated.
He's fucked. Yep.
Donna Brown said the family will soon visit Stephen at the county jail where he's being held, the Cumberland County Jail. They said that it might be the last time they see him.
They don't know. Right.
They said we're grieving terribly over it. He's gone.
There's no way to reach out to him. We love him.
We just don't know what more to say're grieving terribly over it he's gone there's no way to reach

out to him we love him we just don't know what more to say we'll always love him he'll always be our son he's they say it like he's just dead so they they've johnny tylered him yeah he's done now it's over he's out yeah he's just done with he is a man flushed away he is a crazy man so i I don't blame him.

Yeah.

That's what happens.

Yeah.

So Debbie here, her uncle says that she is eager to return to the trailer that they lived at. Her brother's lower middle road trailer here.
And she said she's going to move back right in there. I mean, the threat's been eliminated.
It's gone um it's as safe as it can be now

the uncle said she knows that linda needs her and she needs linda because both their people have been murdered so they're just gonna stay in this house and be like trauma 80 nice be like an 80s sitcom with kate and allie with two ladies raising their fucking kids that's what it is i don't know pulled that sitcom out of my ass from the 80s that was good i don't remember that one It was Jane Curtin.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, she's fucking great national treasure man so um she uh she's doing that um he said the uncle said that debbie spent most of her wednesday hugging and kissing members of her immediate family she also visited her dead boyfriend's parents and um she said the uncle said she's in shock and unable to fathom everything yet. Yeah, I don't even know how you would, I don't know how, number one, you would unpack and deal with what happened to you.
Just the trauma you went through of the middle of the night going outside, having somebody come, your ex-husband, the guy you're most scared of in the world. This isn't just some stranger is the boogeyman for you bust through your window with a shotgun yeah all day long she's probably seeing him at the at the uh hotel she probably is like i'm i'm losing my mind he's not here i and having that actually be her suspicions all are true like yes that would be mind-blowingly scary that what I mean.
That's the exact thing because when she's told Chris that, you know Chris was like, come on. He's not fucking out.
He's not stalking you outside the Holiday Inn when he fucking was. How would he know we're here? That's like she has like a sixth sense for him of like, I know when he's around.
I can smell him. I can smell it.
He it and yeah like i don't know like i said i don't know how you'd unpack the fact that i was kidnapped dragged two states over yeah kept in a fucking motel against my will raped multiple times by my fucking husband threatened to be murdered yeah guns are pointed at me this is like and then you survive it just that alone would be so much but on top of that they killed your boyfriend and your brother right beforehand because of you in your mind you feel so the guilt the fear I feel terrible for this lady this is a fucking deal had to watch it watch the kid dude that's unbelievable. Twelve year old girl.
They have to watch that.

Oh, boy.

Disturbing. And she's already terrified of her father.
This is, you know, this is fucked. So Debbie said, though, she and her children will move on and move ahead with their plans for a new life, just like they had.
They're moving back into the mobile home. Her and Linda are going to be roommates.
They're going to build two new bedrooms in the back of the house. and yeah she said last

a few days after this happened she drove back to new york and took all of their belongings from the brown's house anything they had left from the parents house or anything like that um the kids debbie said that the kids quote trashed their father's things like i think that they just went in fucking his shit up in the house yeah Yeah. She said, they'll tell you they don't have a father anymore.
Theirs died. That's what they're telling people.
My dad's dead. That's just what they...
Yeah. What's your mom and dad like? Oh, my mom's okay.
A little bit of trauma. My dad's dead.
Yeah. That's that.
She said she wants to go back to school to become a certified nurse's assistant and hopes to tell her story of abuse to high school girls in hopes of preventing someone from, you know, same shit going on here. Oof, that's a weird fifth period there.
Sure enough. We're going to bring in Debbie and she's going to tell you the most harrowing fucking story you've ever heard in your life.
Buckle up, ladies. Holy shit.
Yeah. What the fuck that's gonna be a rough a rough day

hearing about that you gotta hear about stressful enough oh my god see i was worried i wasn't

popular now i got much bigger fears holy shit um you had to watch all those like uh

domestic violence videos right like no no i don't know i'm trying to remember one health class

Yeah, I remember one specifically because it was a video of a woman that said she spent two dollars on a top at kmart like the boyfriend and the whole class was laughing this bitch shops at kmart i'm like he's about to beat her ass you guys this is about to not be funny here in the next 10 seconds you guys are ridiculing this poor woman for being broke because she's poor she's a an abused woman who only has two dollars to spend on a shirt and you're like ha ha you dumb bitch what the it was a little like shocking moment of my of high school for me like realizing that people don't understand people are huge huge shitbags. Nice of you guys to have such rosy lives.
Jesus Christ. Yeah, everything's perfect for you guys, I guess.
Shadow Mountain, did this take place at? Yeah, those North Phoenix twats. Upper mid-class, fucking jerks, man.
What douchebag? Like, yeah. Who do you think you are she's wearing like this cute tank top and the guy's like where'd you get that she's like i bought it today do you like it i spent two dollars at kmart and he flew off the handle about the two dollars jesus that is i guess something that people need to hear about i do remember those slightly i remember the syphilis videos more though those were really I remember those where they were showing like actual syphilitic wounds you know i was really worried about showing my penis to anybody so i didn't care about those videos i was terrified of that happening to my dick however it happened i was like that was really oh god i don't want that to happen jesus christ that that looks awful.
It's rotting off. But yeah, those were terrible videos.
So awful. But I guess, I mean, this is a story that you kind of need to hear.
Yeah, you do got to know that it's possible. Maybe not at 14, but at 16, I think it's, you know, something.
So she expects her divorce to become final in May. She's still married to this man.
Wow. Because she had filed for divorce.
And then she said she and the kids plan to change their last name to Brouillard. Oh, for Chris.
Yes. She said Chris and I did have plans to get married and this way we can honor his memory.
Wow. Wow.
That is hardcore, man. That's a very interesting choice.
Oh shit. Slapping it on the kids too is interesting.
That's what I don't know. Whatever.
I guess. Now, Steven and Patricia, they end up arriving in Maine.
They get extradited from New York to Maine. Here, a New York state police airplane carrying them arrived at Portland international Jetport with them.
And there's a picture of Patricia with like a bottle of water and her hands cuffed and she looks miserable. Let me tell you something.
Yeah. Fucking miserable.
We're regretting a bunch of decisions. Oh man.
She does not. Her look on her face is like, oh I did it.
I fucked it all up. And she has two minor children also.
And we were going to be a throuple. Fuck.
Yeah. It was going to be me.
Two wives, him and what? The four kids from the two relationships? Move everybody in together? I don't know what's going on here. But the police, Maine state police officers met them at the plane, shackled Brown and Teeter, and took them to separate cruisers.
They sat in the front passenger seat with the detective sitting behind them, which I think is an odd transportation. Yeah, okay.
Odd way to transport. So, yeah, they said that Teeter leaned forward in her seat trying to hide her face.
She's embarrassed while Stephen just kind of looked the other direction but was like, you know, chin up the air here. Now, the funerals, they did funerals, joint funerals here for Donald and Chris.
And they had a funeral at the mobile home. Really? Yeah, where most funerals take place.
The guests were asked to dress casually. Yeah.
Just act like we're having a barbecue and we'll also bury people. Main casual.
Main cash. Flannel will be seen.
Yeah. So afterward, dozens of friends of Donald and Chris will form a funeral procession made up of four-wheel drive trucks.
Hell yeah. Yep, that's right.
This is the coolest funeral ever. That's pretty goddamn goddamn cool yeah linda said that's the way he would have wanted it that's pretty at least they're not just doing it the way they want it they're trying to send them off right um the parents steven brown's parents are are attending the funeral really donna and ken they don't yeah they they right away tried to contact the families to apologize to them and all that kind of shit.
But Terry would. The uncle Debbie's uncle said that the family won't accept it.
Their apology, not because they're mad at them. Quote, we've not responded to their apology because there's no reason for one.
There's no reason for one from them. We don't hate the Browns.
Nobody can control what their children are going to grow up to be. That's super mature.
That's very mature. Yeah, it's not their fault.
We're not accepting nor rejecting their apology. It doesn't even need to happen.
You don't need to apologize, basically. They can show up at the funeral and no one's going to be like, oh, God, they're here.
It's interesting. Very interesting.

So in the woods next to the house, family members erected a small memorial to Donald, who is 43 and Chris, who is 30. And they had flowered crosses and rose bouquets and a yellow toy monster truck as a tribute to his mudding habit here.
his longtime friend Vicky said if Wood had to go, meaning Donald

the brother, if Wood had to go

he wanted to go out helping somebody and he wanted to go out on his own property. He got his wish.
Helping somebody, not being lured out there to be murdered. Yeah, if you went out to help somebody and they were like stuck under a giant tree that fell on

them and then you got swept off in the rapids yeah that would be like an honorable way to go but going out and not being murdered is not the way he wanted to go out i don't think that's that's just a way for somebody to process uh yeah this horrible event and a funeral like this is also a way to process the event because you're trying to make it a celebration rather than let's I'll be sad.

So I get it.

That's everybody processes different.

So they said debbie walked slowly and unsteadily to the pulpit at the church to pay tribute to her brother um he said he was she said he was my hero he always treated me with respect and um yeah 150 family members and friends attended these services at the church and then they had the thing at the house after that. Apparently, Debbie became overcome with emotion and had to leave halfway through the whole thing.
When these services ended, she made a short statement. She had her uncle, the police chief next to her.
She said, I want to thank everyone who helped rescue me from my ordeal. We have a long road ahead of us.
We must mourn in our own way. We want to leave Chris and Woody in peace.
That makes sense. Now, court for these two idiots.
Man, teeter. They describe her as hands in shackles, quivering and sobbing quietly during her 10-minute hearing.
I don't think she expected any of this shit. It's really got out of half ass.
Yeah. She feels like she doesn't see 10 minutes ahead of her you know what i mean no it's like a i don't think she sees 10 minutes behind her either she's got a memory of a goldfish she's just a goldfish wait till you hear what a psychiatrist says about her basically the same thing you'd say about a goldfish generally she comes into court by the way with her left eye bruised which i have the mug.
I will post on social media as part of this that her left eye was bruised. This was an injury sustained during the police raid.
Oh, so, yeah, that's how that goes. And her defense attorney, who the same defense attorney represents both of them, by the way, Steve and and Patricia.
He said he doesn't know how they're going to plead. He said, quote, I was just appointed to this last night.
I just got the case. I don't even know anything about it.
He said, so I haven't talked in detail with either client about what went on that night. He's just there to do the preliminary hearing.
He has no idea what's going on here. He said that Steven has no criminal history that he's aware of.
I don't know. He said Teeter has two children, 14 and 15, and has only a one misdemeanor charge on her record from like 10 years ago.
So that's – these aren't like – he's saying that they don't seem like career criminals to me. So I don't know.
Stephen Brown, as the prosecutors give their whole thing, Stephen Brown to the press agrees with their account.

Yeah.

Of how it went down.

Yep.

Apparently a state charge of kidnapping is dismissed because a federal kidnapping charge has a heavier penalty. And he took her across state lines.

And that's a federal kidnap.

Oh, shit.

Yeah.

So he's going to be charged with that.

And so is she.

Now, if he any crimes he commits in New York, if it's a federal kidnapping charge, doesn't that just all stack together? Then like a sexual assault and all that can be charged, too. There's two separate.
There's two separate. He's going to have two separate things.
There's going to be a federal and a state deal because murder is a state crime. Right.
OK, so they're going to the murders are going to be the state trials. And then the kidnapping and all that other shit is going to be federal trials.

Because he's got weapons, fucking kidnapping, this.

There's a whole lot of shit that he's stalking.

They're really lining it all up for him.

So he pleads innocent to the federal charges, which includes crossing state lines to violate a protection order, stalking, and violations of federal gun laws.

Teeter pleads innocent also to state charges of murder, felony murder, and kidnapping. Stephen Brown's lawyer said he advised his client not to change his plea from not guilty.
He said there's been no promise of a lesser sentence for cooperating, so I told him that pleading guilty, even though he's admitted he did it, pleading guilty isn't really the best option. We might as well give it a shot here.
But he did say that Brown wanted to take responsibility for his crimes and spare his family the stress of a drawn out procedure. And the embarrassment, yeah.
Yep. He said, the lawyer said, I don't think there should be any unrealistic expectations.
A harsh sentence will be well within the realm of possibility no shit i would hope so

so he's sitting in the cumberland county jail in august of 1999 when he tries to take the quick way out oh really we're gonna try to turn it into a murder suicide yeah aaron rogers way very separate here. Aaron Hernandez way.

If only. No.
The Aaron Hernandez way.

Yeah.

So he

he Roger's way. Very separate here.
Aaron Hernandez way. If only.
No. The Aaron Hernandez way.
Yeah. So he takes the disposable razor blades they get for shaving, slashes his neck with it, and then tries to hang himself by tying a sheet around his neck, knotting the other end to a railing, and vaulting over the railing.
Which would break your neck, probably. And at least hang you, if not.
Problem is, he's... I don't think Steven ever was in the Boy Scouts.
Bad knots? Missed knot tying 101, apparently. The knot didn't hold, so as soon as there was any pressure, he was just free- the neck tear on down oh damn it and instead of hanging himself he hit the ground and broke his ankle like a fucking dipshit yeah broken left ankle uh leg possible broken right heel yeah that would have been a spectacle too that's what he was going for yeah shit he's a drama queen he really is he likes even the crime is such a drama queen thing to do i'll kill them then i'm gonna get her in there and talk to her and make her say she loves me and like what a drama queen man question a man as i beat him to death about whether or not he's fucking my wife

yeah don't don't say it in front of my girlfriend though she gets sensitive he's gonna hang himself in town square of the prison this is totally he tried to he tried to jump off the tear that's so funny by the way did nobody notice a man with a fucking rolled up sheet trying to tie it around a fucking railing?

Who's leaking?

Anybody watching in prison at all? By the way, did nobody notice a man with a fucking rolled up sheet trying to tie it around a fucking railing?

Who's leaking?

Anybody watching in prison at all?

Blood fucking all over him?

Blood squirts from his neck?

I mean, anybody paying attention?

This is a county jail.

This isn't Attica.

Like, pay attention.

People in prison have a pretty good sense of humor.

They're pretty funny sometimes.

Somebody had to say some shit like, oh yeah oh you dummy oh damn somebody said something hilarious i guarantee it it was the first first time the word the phrase epic fail was uttered ever you know what no one ever used that phrase again not only because it's annoying but because no matter what happens it's not as epic of a fail as this this is an epic fail slash slash goodbye cruel world oh my ankle fuck jesus christ at this. Damn.
Why didn't I learn to tie knots better?

And then he's fucking laying there with it tied around his neck with blood everywhere

and just a sheet hanging off.

Like, what a mess you'd walk up to.

The worst Superman ever.

Dude.

If you're one of the fucking COs, you just walk up and just shake your head and go,

this is a sorry-ass scene I'm looking at right now. You sorry motherfucker.
Superman turned into Clark Kent midair. Quickly, yeah.
No shit. It's like, it's not supposed to happen like this.
Nothing super about you, man. Holy shit.
8 a.m. too.
He tried to do it early in the day. They described his neck wounds from the disposable razor as generally superficial.
So I think that's why he had to hang himself, too. He couldn't get deep enough there.
So Stephen decides that, I mean, they have a lot of evidence. I mean, he was in the room with her and the guns and his girlfriend spilled it and he agreed with the prosecutor.
So he's going to go ahead and plead guilty.

You have to.

I don't know what a trial would be for this.

It would be painful, man.

Yeah.

Just use his statements.

It's fine.

So he's going to plead guilty to murder and kidnapping at the state level.

Okay.

And then multiple federal charges as well in another separate proceeding that we'll discuss

here.

So sentencing comes around for the state charges and they describe him as sitting impassive

Thank you. And multiple federal charges as well in another separate proceeding that we'll discuss here.
So sentencing comes around for the state charges. They describe him as sitting impassively manacled to a wheelchair, a broken ankle and a four inch purple scar below his right ear.
The remnants of his September suicide attempt. So now he looks like a complete dipshit, not just a murderer, a complete moron on top of of this so his lawyer said it was an explosion of rage and not a careful plan this wasn't some kind of premeditated sick fuck thought out thing this was just rage that exploded from him said steven brown had suffered a series of crushing disappointments in the months leading up to the murders when a judge in their divorce case ruled that he couldn't contact his wife or children.
That was it. He lost control.
Couldn't take it anymore. And he said that the fact that the mere fact that he killed the two men with a length of pipe he'd found along the roadside and not the shotgun he brought with him from New York indicated rage and not planning.
To me that indicates not wanting to wake up anybody. anybody.
Or alert her. That's the thing.
The shotgun is for Debbie. That is not for them.
If she hears a shotgun blast outside after this, she might call 911 before she comes out, and you're not going to get her, and then you're fucked. That's a bad strategy.
And then he said, this is amazing.

He said he carried the gun just to protect himself.

Oh, because he was scared.

An assault rifle and a shotgun just to protect yourself.

And knives, evidently.

And knives and ropes and duct tape and fucking pipes and everything.

And he said, or at the very least, either to protect himself from others or to kill himself.

One of those two, but not for people. That's crazy to think that he was trying to do that, even though he killed people.
He said, or this is the lawyers not helping at this point. So he carried the gun to protect himself.
OK, I don't believe it, but whatever. Or maybe to kill himself with.
OK, calm down, lawyer. Then the next one is, or he might have been trying to engage the police in a

shootout that would cause his own death, what we

know as death by cop.

You're not helping your client, stupid. Shut up.

Stop talking.

He said, wow.

His lawyer here

said that if there had been a trial,

Stephen Brown would have challenged

his wife's assertions that she

had been abused during their marriage.

Even though she's been to

multiple battered women's shelters and told people about the abuse for years. And yeah.
He said the order that had culpability and proof, evidently, to acknowledge it. Totally.
Yeah. The lawyer said that the court would be on shaky ground if it passed a strict sentence based on just allegations.

OK, well, I think it's based on murder and kidnapping and raping is what they're really talking about. He then says, quote, I'm not asking the court to find if there was adequate provocation and right and render a verdict of manslaughter.
manslaughter.

Okay, yeah.

Adequate provocation?

You drove two states,

hid in the fucking dark,

and have somebody... Render a verdict of manslaughter.
Okay, yeah. Adequate provocation? You drove two states,

hidden the fucking dark,

and have somebody come out?

Yeah, that's a real,

I mean, that's provocation right there.

What are you talking about?

You stalked them for a day.

That's insanity.

He said, but I'm not asking the court

that the court blame,

I'm not asking the court

that blame should be focused

anywhere but on Stephen,

but I'm asking the court

to consider each event after event after event which put him in this condition. So shortly, this guy, this is how full of shit he knows he is.
This seems like if you tried to pass a football out of your ass, this is what would happen to you. Soon as he was done finishing his argument, the lawyer asked for a recess and walked out of the courtroom complaining of nausea and sweating within a few minutes he's in an ambulance being taken to the hospital uh to the special care unit and remaining in stable condition and through the rest of this he's represented by another lawyer some his other lawyer that does the federal shit.
Having to say that shit caused him deep anxiety that caused him a panic attack. Right away, if I'm the judge, I go, well, I don't believe anything he said.
If he had a fucking full-blown meltdown after saying it. A Tony Soprano pass out after he said it.
I'm not buying that shit. Wow.
So the prosecutor described him a little bit more simplistically as a controlling, narcissistic, just plain dangerous lunatic, basically. Came to Maine with a plan to kill, use the pipe instead of a gun because it was quiet and it wouldn't stir up the other people sleeping in there.
He's a Marine Corps veteran. He knows that massive blows he struck to the back of the head would kill them and not just knock them out.
Said that his aim was to kidnap his wife and he would have killed others if they had gotten in his way. However many people came outside, he would have killed until he got to Debbie.
Period. That's it.
So the lawyer said she did precisely what she was told to do and saved her own life and possibly Patricia Teeters, too. So she then said it was wrong to think Stephen Brown lost control when he could have no more contact with his family.
The lawyer said this case is not about love. This is about if I can't have her, nobody will.
It's about winning and losing. It's about a guy who does not take an L well at all.
His lawyer then said that he doubted that Brown intended to kill Chris and Donald when he left New York. But, you know, whatever.
The judge agrees. He said, I don't know whether he intended to kill them or not, but at some point he planned it.

He planned this attack and it was premeditated. The judge says he was prepared to do what was necessary to initiate contact with Mrs.
Brown, including taking forcible type actions. Kidnapping.
So the impact statements here, victim impact, they come up and friends and family come up and do this. Terry Wood, who is Donald and Debbie's uncle, he said his family has been scarred by Stephen Brown.
He said, my poor brother will never recover. My niece will take several years to heal.
These two children will never heal, knowing that their father is a murderer. And Whitney gets up there at 12 years old yeah she does

and she says I am a Christian

and I can't hate anyone but

I dislike my father I can't even

stand to look at him wow

oh that has to fucking sting

man sure he deserves that

shit 100% I dislike my

father and he had to hear that

I can't even stand to look at him from your

12 year old daughter he's right there

and then she called her

a whore in open court no he didn't

Thank you. father she and he had to hear that i can't even stand to look at him from your 12 year old daughter he's right there and then she then she he uh called her a whore in open court no he didn't but she's had a lot of reason to not like this guy so um then debbie gets on the stand oh boy that's the that's the victim impact she said please i it's very rare by the way to have a murder case where there's also a victim who's still alive to give an impact statement.

That's really damaging to a defendant.

It really is.

And the target of it.

You know what I mean?

And the main target.

She said, please, I ask you to put him away so he can do no more harm.

I beg you not to be light with him.

I'm still in fear of him.

Please put him in a prison outside of the state so my kids and I won't have to worry about him no more.

So she doesn't even want him in the same, even if he's in prison in the same state, she's scared.

I don't even want him locked up in the state.

Steven turned down the chance to speak on his own behalf.

Really?

Made no eye contact with anybody around and no witnesses stepped forward to speak for him, not even his parents, nobody. He asked the judge to sentence him to death.
That's all he did. He just said, I want the death penalty.
I'm incapable of this. Please do it for me.
Please. The judge said, well, how about this? You, sir, may fuck off two life sentences without parole.

How's that instead? I mean, it's death, but it's going to be ugly. Much worse and slower.
And you're not good at tying knots, so you're going to be there a while. So more sentencing for Stephen now in the federal court here.
He's still got a bunch of more crazy charges that have life possibilities attached to them here. Debbie Brown, again, testifies, and her uncle Terry asked the judge to show no leniency.
Debbie said, my biggest fear right now is that he will escape from prison to finish what he started. He's a monster.
Death does not bother him. As a matter of fact, it turns him on.
Gross. Fucking gross.
So then Steven gets up there. He's's gonna do anything to say for yourself he's day i got something to say for myself this time yeah yeah now he could apologize he could say he doesn't know what happened to him i went off the deep end yeah i'm a horrible i feel terrible i'll never outlive this guilt there's a lot of things you would say in this situation um the things you would not say in this situation here um by the way by the way came out i guess he raped his wife three times that night and they're all there as that came out later on so this fucking asshole instead says this quote i've never ever denied responsibility for what happened but for the past several months there's been a lot of things said on tv and in newspapers everything's always one-sided oh he wants to you want some defense wow yeah he said where is my fucking uh you know other side news yeah where's that where's the news that says that fucking guy who admitted he murdered two people and kidnapped and raped his wife actually isn't too bad of a guy? Where's that news? Where's my no spin zone? Wow.
So, yeah, he made no excuses. He denied harming his children.
He said, I never beat up my children. And he then during his, please be nice to me, accused Debbie of being unfaithful to him during their marriage.

I mean, they're still married.

She slept with Chris. That's unfaithful.

I mean, that is couldn't be more irrelevant at this moment in time.

Holy shit.

But he used that as that's the excuse.

Okay.

He said, yes, I was enraged. Then he said, I just want to get this done.
All right. Okay.
So the judge says, no problem, chief. Got you covered.
You, sir, may fuck off again. How about, what do you got, two without parole? Here's another three.
Oh, boy. Five life without paroles.
Bye-bye. Yeah.
Three federal, two states. You can appeal here and there.
Even if one turns it over, you got either three or two more. You're fucked, Steve.
Even in cards, you can't have five of a kind. You got it, man.
You got it, brother. That's it.
So Teeter here, Patricia Teeter, she is going to go to court as well. And she is going to plead guilty to murder and kidnapping as well as multiple federal charges she does the same thing she pleads here her thing though she has a little bit more leg to stand on on the plea because she can throw herself at the mercy of the court and say he's a monster and i didn't know and he lied to me and all that kind of shit whereas he has nothing to say here i mean there is the if you did somebody was murdered, I mean, she didn't, let's say she didn't know that the first person was going to die.
As soon as she watched him die and he says, now go ask for Chris. Now get more.
She could knock on the door and say, call the police, let me in, shut the door, anything. Call 911 right now, don't come out, lock the door.
Tell Chris for sure don't go. Instead came back for the third person yeah yeah that's nuts this is nuts and she's just as fucking i mean obviously i think she's been manipulated and probably whatever but we'll talk about it and like i said the shrink what he says about her too is interesting she's gonna plead to avoid getting a life sentence her plea she gets her a lighter sentence basically she won't get life um on the federal kidnapping charge with which carries a mandatory life term will be dropped as will a more serious state charge of murder which carries a possible light life term so it'll be like conspiracy and after the fact and all that kind of shit so um the length of the sentence is decided by a judge here.
They said that during her sentencing, she stood at the front of the courtroom with her head bowed. Her voice barely rose above a whisper as the judge questioned her about her case.
When a prosecutor read a description of the deaths of Donald Wood and Christopher Bolliard, Teeter reached for a tissue and cried quietly. A single mother of two teenage girls, Teeter did not know any of the victims.
She'd been friendly with Stephen Brown for just a few months before he asked her to drive him to Maine. Teeter went even though she knew that Brown was barred from a court order from seeing his wife or their two children.
Teeter also knew that Brown was armed with a knife, two guns, one of which she loaned him. So she definitely knows that.
The shotgun's hers. But the assistant attorney general here, the same one that prosecuted Brown, said that it doesn't appear Teeter had any intention of kidnapping or killing anyone.
What? Then she just doesn't ask questions? Right. I go up, get a guy, you kill him, and then you say, go get another one.
You go, okay. Like, you don't ask any questions ask any are you gonna kill him too like what the fuck what are we what are we doing here she just does it wow um the prosecutor said patricia teeter appeared to be simply helping a friend what i mean she's an idiot but no she lent him a shotgun and then drove to where the place that she knows his fucking wife has a restraining order against him on that i'm sorry you're and a friend just a friend just a friend yeah it would appear that she did not come to maine to participate in killing two men i believe that i believe when they left he didn't say here's what we're gonna do we're gonna kill two people they kidnap think that happened.
But by the second murder, if you're still on board. Yeah.
What the fuck? You know what I mean? I'm sure he said we're going. We're not going camping.
And she knew that. Right.
I would fucking hope so. Jesus.
She lent him a shotgun. So she said then they said, should she have known? Should she have been brighter? Should she would? Should she have foreseen this? We say yes, the prosecutor says.
Yeah, been brighter is funny. You've been adjudicated a dum-dum now, which is hilarious.
At least dim. At least slightly dim.
Well, wait a minute here. The shrink says it was funny.
So her defense lawyer said that his client pleaded guilty to avoid the murder and federal kidnapping charges.

He said that Patricia did not know what was happening outside Woods Mobile Home until it was too late.

But she described the sound of the skull being smashed in and then went to get someone else.

Right.

She was afraid of Stephen Brown, the lawyer said, and did whatever he told her to do.

He also said that Teeter had long been a victim of domestic violence in her own marriage which conditioned her to obey Brown. That sounds correct probably.
She said that he then said her conduct is consistent with her history as a battered woman. Yes, but you can't just kill strangers if you're a battered woman.
That doesn't hold up in court. You know what I mean? So, the Dr.
Prudence Baxter, a Cambridge, Massachusetts psychiatrist, examined Teter and described her as this is great.

Quote, startlingly naive and a gullible person.

Incredibly.

Startlingly.

If you're if your shrink uses the word startlingly in any description of you, you're a mess.

That's not good. Wow.
She also said that Teeter may have been conditioned to intimidation and control by 10 years of domestic abuse during a prior relationship, which sounds very reasonable. Now, Debbie's uncle, though, says horse shit.
he gets on the stand Terry Wood and says that she's no less responsible for the crimes

than Stephen Brown and she should also spend the rest of her life in fucking prison. He said, quote, she knew when she came to the door the second time that my nephew was dead and Mr.
Brown was going to murder Chris. All she had to do was say, dial 911.
She could have put a stop to it, but she didn't. Exactly.
Exactly what we said. So Teeter during her sentencing here, she has previously expressed remorse and all that kind of thing.
She doesn't say much during her sentencing hearing, though. She said she learned during the 10 hour car trip that Brown wanted to talk to his estranged wife alone in violation of a court order, and she said she'd help do it.
She said, I was disappointed. I thought it was going to be a nice weekend.
It had been a while since anyone had ever treated me. If I ever wanted to do something, I would always have to pay.
She said, I thought we were having a nice date weekend, and I was wrong. She said then, yeah, and I'm the one who has to pay like nobody likes me and i thought he liked me that's essentially it which i mean yeah she's a when you see her too she's kind of like a it's hard to describe her but she looks like a woman who's kind of sad just a person who's not real like um she doesn't go out yeah has not a lot of positive relationships it seems like it.
Yeah. Then Patricia said he said he was going to knock him on the head and tie him up for a brief time.
I didn't think it was all right, but I guess I was afraid. Then he told me he could do it without hurting them.
So he's like, OK. So he told Teeter to go back a second time.
Despite her protest, he said she she said he grabbed me by the arms and looked me in the face and said, you have to.

No choice.

No choice.

She said, I just thought if I went in and they went out, he could get in and talk to Debbie and it would be done more or less peacefully and nobody would get hurt.

The defense attorney said this conduct is very much out of character for her. She's never been in any trouble in her whole life.
She's well thought of in her community. And the judge disagrees with all of this and says, quote, there is absolutely no indication that this defendant acted out of fear, coercion, or distress.
The judge dismissed a psychiatric report that said that Teeter was afraid of Brown. He said he believed Teeter's statements to an interviewer were, quote, fabricated in an effort to avoid the likely sentence in this case.
So she was just discounting her own participation. He cited evidence that he said pointed to Teeter's active participation, including her willingness to tap on the wall of their motel room to warn Stephen Brown of any police in the in the area.
Oh, my God. So, yep.
He's the judge says that shows, in my view, a fixed determination to pursue it right to the end. You, ma'am, may fuck off 20 years in state prison, 29 years years in federal prison boy but to be served concurrently okay she was eligible for parole in 2024 we'll talk about it now debbie said she was satisfied with the sentence yeah i mean she said yeah She knows that Debbie's not debbie's not going to get out of that patricia teeter's not going to get out of prison and come hunter you know what i mean it's that so she doesn't really care she said that um teeter had plenty of opportunity to escape from the motel to call the cops to help out she ran errands for him all fucking day she was out and about she was making phone calls to friends and shit um debbie said she told me i should go back to steven and not be fearful of him and that he wasn't a bad guy now steven's going to appeal this sentence yeah this sentence here he claims he was prejudiced by the lack of fair notice of the charges against him did he not think there'd be serious charges against him when he got arrested for murder and kidnapping? That is fucking wild, I think.
Anyway, they said, if true, this would seriously affect the fairness, integrity, and public reputation of a judicial proceeding. Wow.
So notwithstanding his protestations to the contrary, Brown's claim that he lacked fair notice of the charges against him cannot withstand even the mildest scrutiny. The court says first, though, the kidnapping count did not allege the kidnapping resulted in a death.
The conspiracy count explicitly charged Brown with killing Wood and Brouillard from the beginning. Then Brown was on notice that he was being charged with conduct that included the deaths of two people.
Right. You think he wasn't going to get charged with that? Second, Brown knew before pleading guilty that he faced the mandatory term of life in prison because two people died during a kidnapping.
Before entertaining Brown's guilty plea, the district court instructed the parties to file briefs on the issue of whether the death of any person resulted of kidnapping is an element of the offense or a sentencing factor. The court ruled that the statutory provision issue was a sentencing factor that informed Brown that if he pleaded guilty to the kidnapping charge, he would be sentenced to a mandatory life term in prison by the statute.
That's the federal kidnapping charges. If the death of any person results during a kidnapping.
Thus, Brown was aware of the charges against him and of the corresponding penalties before entering his guilty plea. Keep on keeping on.
Enjoy. Patricia's going to go ahead and try it, too.
I said, fuck it. I'll give it a shot.
I'll appeal. I'll throw down.
That's, wow, I can he tried that. So they said during the changes is teeters now during the change of plea calliloquy, the district court questioned the appellant concerning her overall understanding of an acquiescence in the terms of the plea agreement, but did not direct her attention to the waiver provision.
As we've said, the validity of a waiver of appellate rights depends on whether or not the waiver was knowingly and voluntarily taken. This has to do with a lot of times included in a plea deal is a waiver of all appeals.
That's part of it. They'll accept a plea deal, give you a lower sentence, but you're not going to clog the courts up with more shit.
But there's sometimes when there's a waiver, but the attorney didn't explain it. The judge wasn't explicit about it.
So once in a while, that waiver will get thrown aside and you can still appeal anyway. And that's what she's trying to do here.
They said that they asked her, do you understand that both you and the government will have a right to appeal any sentence I impose?

They said this unqualified query to which the prosecutor, not the same person who appears as counsel for the government in this court, inexplicably failed to take exception, drew an affirmative response from the appellant. The premise of this question directly contradicted the tenor of the waiver provision.
So given the court's failure to make inquiry to the waiver, it's unfortunate contradiction of the waiver's terms and the lack of any correction or then or thereafter. We cannot say the with the requisite assurance that the appellant surrender of her appellant rights was sufficiently informed.
They talk about her role in the offense. The court says the facts can be marshaled in a way as to put the appellate in a more sympathetic light.

The appellate's able counsel strives valiantly to transform the case into this fashion. He claims the appellate agreed only to spend a romantic weekend holiday away with her boyfriend in Maine, and what happened thereafter was largely out of her control.
the judge says that the judges say this spin does not carry the day however because the sentencing court was fully entitled to draw a different more sinister set of inferences from

the largely undisputed facts. So they're like, no, that's not how it works.
And they tell her that it's affirmed. So take your ass back there.
Now, 2012, Stephen Brown is in a facility. They're in federal facilities, by the way.
They're taken to. So Stephen Brown, she's in Danbury for most of her time.
Danbury, Connecticut there. And he's in another facility.
He is in, no, he's in Jessup, Georgia. Jesus Christ.
Yeah. Way far fucking away.
Jessup. He went to Jessup for Christ's sake.
Yikes, that's no good. So he's in a facility which houses about 1,900 male inmates since about 2009.
So 2012 is about three years. And they said that they couldn't release information about disciplinary issues and suicide attempts and violence or anything like that.
But on this day in 2012, he does somehow figure out how to hang himself. He it good for you steven you finally pulled it off you're finally successful at something you fucking loser fucking loser you did it it took you two tries but you did it here two tries in 35 years how fucking old is he god damn jackass he's 50 when he dies here fuck first time he's successful he's 50.
50. Trying to, and he goes for the same one that he failed on before.

That's 50.

50.

And he goes for the same one that he failed on before.

That's what bothers me.

It's crazy.

So anyway, Debbie says she's pissed off at this.

Yeah.

She says, I do believe he took the easy way out because he didn't want to suffer behind those walls.

She said her life still has begun, still is trying to get back to normal, even though it's been 12 years. She still is 13 years.
It's a disaster. She says the nice thing is, quote, I don't have to look over my shoulders anymore.
I don't have to live in fear. I can actually go outside and not be afraid to be out after dark.
She's going to be like that for the rest of her life even if he didn't do it because she doesn't know if he's in that joint still. That's, she always, yeah, didn't escape,

and nobody found out yet, yeah.

That's why she said that, you know,

at one point I'm pissed off at him for whatever,

but at the same time, now I know he's dead,

I don't have to fucking worry about him anymore,

breaking out and coming and killing me.

So, there's been a couple TV shows on this,

including Investigation Discovery's series,

Wicked Attraction, called Till Death Do Us Part. God damn.
How would they not call... Okay, the show's called Wicked Attraction.
How did they get, unless this is the first episode, how did they get to this episode without using Till Death Do Us Part as a fucking title for a show? This is the first one. You'd think that'd be at least in the top three right away.
Well, until Death Do Us Part, I guess.

Of it, every series, 48 Hours, Dateline, all that shit has Until Death Do Us Part. They all do.

Everybody.

Yeah, maybe that's what we'll call this one.

I don't fucking know.

We haven't used that yet?

Maybe.

I don't think so.

It's kind of hacky, so I wouldn't use it probably.

That's the thing.

We're pretty deep.

Yeah, I try to come up with something weird or a reference to the show or something like that or just something that's eye-catching, but till death do us part just sounds boring. So 2024, Patricia Teeter and her Teeters are up for parole from Danbury at this point, and she is released from federal prison on November 11, 2024.
Holy holy shit she is on the streets oh my god telling her the teats is on the streets we got teats on the streets people watch out real dumb ones yeah they should one of the provisions should be you're not allowed to date anybody ever you're're too gullible to date. We're sorry.
You're too dumb. You'll do whatever they tell you to do.
Jesus Christ. Now, the property, 61 Lower Middle Road in Lebanon, Maine, at this point, there is nothing on it.
The picture of it is just woods. The house is gone.
If there is a trailer, it's back there, and it's not even listed as a home. It's listed as a dash bedroom, dash bedroom, bathroom, dash square footage.
It's just land. Yep, that's it.
And they don't even have a Zestimate on it. It's just sitting there.
We don't know because it hasn't been sold in a long time. No, it's off the market.
It's probably been in the same family for 50 years. They don't know what the hell it's worth.
So there you go, everybody. That is Lebanon, Maine.
Jesus Christ. And that's quite the fucking harrowing tale, I would say.
That's wild. You're not going to get that all the time from different shows.
That's some small-town murder shit right there. Teeters didn't stay in Connecticut, right? She can't afford Connecticut.
No. She's probably back in Newfield I would imagine that's where she

lived at her back in somewhere in central New

York there who knows but watch

out for the teats people they're out

check that out they're out there so

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Holy shit. Listen to Crime and Sports.
Listen to your stupid opinions and get Patreon. Patreon.com slash Crime in Sports is where you get all of the bonus episodes.
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That's right. This week, what you're gonna get we're gonna talk about kobe bryant's swept under the rug rape case there and see what happened with that we have i mean i don't know it wasn't there i don't know but we have police interrogations we have depositions from everybody and then everybody can see what they think i don't know uh then for small town murder we are going to do an internet salad episode which is when we kind of of give you a sneak peek behind the curtain and show you what we do before we record, which is sit around, look shit up, see what people are doing today, and make fun of it.

And that's what we're going to do.

All sorts of anything from the internet except politics.

This is going to be light and easy, and neither of us are going to get into a rage.

It's just going to be a lot of fun.

Can't wait to do that.

It was great last time, and we're jacked for it. People wanted it back, so we said, okay, let's fucking do it.
That'll be fun. That is patreon.com slash crime and sports.
Oh, one more thing. You get a shout-out, too, if you do that.
And when do we do those shout-outs? Say right fucking now. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the people who would never kill two members of my family and then kidnap us in a hotel room and make us do horrible things.
Hit me with them right fucking now. This week's executive producers are Jordan Bennett.
Happy birthday, Jordan. Happy birthday, Jordan Bennett.
They are moving back to England. That's bananas.
I heard that, yeah. They're my favorite Canadians, yeah.
Good luck with that. Robin Hanaberry, happy birthday as well.
Zach Bowles in Philly and Ashton Wilcox thank you all so much for what you're doing thank you other producers this week are uh peyton meadows uh the land of voodoo hoodoo and all kind of weird shit what is that from cool that is fuck no i can't even i forget what that's all kind of weird shit yeah i can voodoo hoodoo and all kind of weird shit maybe a baseball movie. Yeah, it sounds like a hillbilly.
Is it the guy that hates Pedro Serrano? Bull Durham, maybe? I don't know. That's what I was thinking at first.
Yeah, maybe. I don't know.
Buttered Toast Legion president Jonathan Phipps said hello, James. Well, hello there.
Said the Buttered Toast people are going to get mad. Happy hour checking in in Memphis.
Like an autistic child, IG page.

I don't know what that is.

Okay.

Don't like them too much.

I'm not co-signing on it.

Keep your hands to yourself.

I don't know anything about it.

Janice Hill, Amanda Potter.

Oh, what is this?

Octavio Escamillo.

Octavio or Octavio?

I don't know which that is.

Octavio Octavio. Not so old Martha.
What is it? Pieric? Is that real? Pieric? Is that a name? Pieric? Wow. Someone couldn't decide whether they wanted to be French or an American kid born in the 80s.
They couldn't decide. Nestor Baragin.
Kern with no last name. Kali.
Geoniodos. Yeah Yeah, that.
Gianniados. Something Greek.
Let's just say that. Gareth Schneider, Crystal H., Stephen Mancuso, Anon Omus, you know what I mean.
Alice Francis, Seth Tarseli, Ali Watts, JC, the letters J-N-C, Megan Skeel, maybe it's Megan. Lisa Press, J and D, the letters J and D.

Sam Lowe, Ronnekeve.

That is a first name or a last name.

Ronnie Keve.

All right, Patrick Dobbins, Jason B., Haley Kruiser.

Alexandra, Alexandra, Marie Turlej.

Turlej, that's Russian. All right, Charlotte Gervais, Caleb with no last name, Josie Zavala, Jennifer Stark, Stephen C., Kristen Taylor, Paul John, Hannah Barron, Kicha Halloran, Meredith Hahn, Big Al Fidical, Chris Hayward, Amber with no last name, Jan Valdecelis, Valdecelis, Saliche, Farm Junkie, Nice Lady, Ben Harden, Amy A., Ruby with no last name, Ken with no last name, Berber Sirsima, Terry Martin Miller, Jason Welcher, Todd with no last name, Jason Willis, Wilson,

God damn it, Michelle Thomas, Chris Mosier, Chassidy, Chassidy, that's only one T. Not Cassidy or Chass-titty? No, Chassidy Smith, or maybe it is Cassidy with an H in there for no fucking reason at all.
We don't know. jen king nicole cochran hannah johnson melissa a tyler would know last name jennifer piankowski jason constant kim bayer ian arsenault uh cassie would know last name mick jagger probably not stephanie witten if it is he should have sent me more than five fucking dollars you he gets bored on the road you know he needs more episodes he's got kids jimmy he's got small children no he's got small children now he's like 90 years old yeah brand new one he just had to save that money uh stephanie whitten rachel santana jan summer uh jen oh it's yawn yawn summer uh stevie uh stevie mac rarks.
Steven. Nope.
Steve Peterson. Matthew Anderson.
Jill Womack. Tema.
Tema Wilson. Ronald Morton.
Jade O'Hare. Karen Sprouse.
Wendell Helm Jr. Pete Pedicone.
Pedicone. Carlo Ferraroni.
Ferraroni. Delane.
Delane.

Ferraroni.

Delane Ellison.

Shady 307.

A 320 driver.

Annie.

Annie.

Annie Bailey.

The Wolves.

That's the Wolves, you guys.

You can't do an F.

That's against English tradition.

Moxie Goodwitch.

Jenny Michalski. Elizabeth robert lorenzoni megan good heather holy fucking schoonenthaler heather holy fucking shit schoonenthaler wow whiskey smoker michelle bozen uh james likes big nuts i'll bet she doesn't how about that somebody probably uh just heard remember there was probably a sentence that you said that You said you like big nuts.
Had to be. Why else would you like big nuts.
I'll bet you he doesn't. How about that? Somebody probably just heard.
Remember, there was probably a sentence that you said you like big nuts. Had to be.
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You know those creepy stories that give you goosebumps? The ones that make you really question what's real? Well, what if I told you that some of the strangest, darkest, and most mysterious stories are not found in haunted houses or abandoned forests, but instead in hospital rooms and doctor's offices. Hi, I'm Mr.
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