#548 - Kill And Let Live - Horseshoe Lake, Arkansas

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Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay! Choo-choo! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy.
Yay indeed. My name is James Petrogallo.
I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman.
Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today. All aboard the murder train, pulling away from the station here.
We have an absolutely bonkers... Terrific.
This is one of those... Sometimes it takes it takes a while to explain oh it would be crazy you could explain what happens in this case in two sentences to someone and they'd go holy shit for real it's crazy so we'll get into all that 10 pounds of murder in a two pound bag we'll get into it very quickly though before we do shut up and give me murder.com get all your merchandise and your tickets to live shows as well.
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So this week, what you're going to get for crime and sports, oh my goodness, it is one of the worst people ever marge shot she owned the reds for years the cincinnati reds terrible person just an awful awful person we'll talk all about her shenanigans and how they eventually forced her to sell the team and then uh for small town murder we're gonna talk about another terrible person the sarah boone trial the as we found out. I watched the entire trial, and it's so much more than just that one video.
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That said, I think it's time, everybody. Hey.
Let's do this. It's time to clear the lungs.
What do you say? Arms to the sky and let's all shout. up and give me murder let's do this everybody all right let's go on a trip shall we let's do that yeah we're going to arkansas oh i love the reaction oh how many people are like we're going to arkansas yeah finally destination going to Horseshoe Lake, Arkansas.
Okay. Horseshoe Lake.
It's in northeastern Arkansas. This is about 40 minutes outside of Memphis.
That's a town, huh? It's a tiny town, too. There's a lot of little towns here.
You'd think 40 minutes outside of Memphis is probably like suburbs or something. No, no, no.
This is rural as rural gets here uh it's about memphis on the tennessee side and then yeah west memphis on the arkansas side yes as you might know from the murders that took place there uh was that where martin luther king was shot when when west memphis i think west memphis is where the west memphis three should happen yeah i think martin luther king was there too i thought that was in memphis like tennessee I think it was West Memphis Three should happen. Right, obviously.
I think Martin Luther King was there too. I thought that was in Memphis, like Tennessee, though.
I didn't know it was in Arkansas. I think it was West Memphis.
I don't know. I might be wrong.
Yeah, I don't know what the hell he's doing in Arkansas. I'm not doing a history book.
Really? This is two hours and 45 minutes to Pleasant Grove, Arkansas, our last Arkansas episode, which was called Kill Them All. That guy guy was wild he went on like a crazy killing spree wouldn't let his wife have postage stamps stamps he was a nutcase uh this is in crittenden county sure and population of this town 384 very small people people way more animals i'm sure probably if you put in the goats and cows They've got to be outnumbered by livestock at that point.
I would think so here. Median income here, not a lot.
Median household income, $48,827, which is over $20,000 less than the national average. And then the median home price here, even lower, $98,200.
Oh, my God. So this is a really small.

Incredibly affordable.

Yeah, and the lake, it's a beautiful lake, and there's a lot of, like, lots available if you want to build a house on the lake.

A little bit of history here.

It was named after Horseshoe Lake, which is the lake it's on, which is an oxbow lake on the eastern tip of the town.

It's situated in the Mississippi River floodplain at the eastern tip of Hhoe Lake. And, um, the lake is a huge summer recreation spot.
People come from Memphis to, you know, they have little vacation cabins here. It's like if you live in New York, what Lake George is to New York people to like Hudson Valley people.
It's kind of what this is. Um, when they first found this place and started coming here, mosquito born diseases would just eat people alive it was just disgusting yeah swamps and everything else but soon after the war of 1812 they surveyed the land and gave it to soldiers who fought in the war as payment they're like you survived getting shot at here see if you can survive mosquito-borne illnesses in this, the worst land we have here.
The worst piece of Arkansas. Jesus Christ man.
So in 1825 Crittenden County was carved out from another county and they made some townships and then they ended up making levees and shit so it wouldn't be so swampy and sure. So they make it more inhabitable basically.
20th century hunters and lumbermen got here and and then they dammed it, and it raised the water level by over six feet. Wow.
Made it a proper lake that you could boat on and shit like that. That way they could float timber directly to the Mississippi River from here.
Floods of 1927 and 1937 completely messed up the entire lake area. Not great.
So then they dug a canal to make sure so there was drainage for flooding in the future. Reviews of this town, there are none, but this is for the town right next door that's five minutes away that most of the people live in and where these people go for groceries and shit.
And that is Hughes, Arkansas. Five stars.
Love it here. I've lived here my whole life and never experienced any other place better.
The people are interesting. The scenery is perfect, and there's always something to do.
I believe it. Interesting is a good way to put it because that could mean anything.
That could literally mean anything at all. Two stars.
I grew up in Hughes, and it was a great place to live, but around 1990, it started changing. What happened? It was 35 years ago.
Today, we have less than a thousand people in town with one store. When the state closed the school, everybody moved.
Oh, wow. People just left.
Not enough kids to populate it, so they closed it. People usually don't leave a nice lake area unless there's something wrong with it.
You know what I mean? Usually those things grow. Communities around lakes tend to expand.
It's so weird. Three stars.
It's an overall good experience. The neighborhood is safe and quiet, but there is no school or job opportunities.
Everything's at least 20 miles away, such as grocery stores and hospitals. Oh, boy.
It's tough. It's a tough place to live if you're living like that i mean that's yeah you have to be retired 20 minutes you have to be retired and not have any health problems that's or have any fucking danger at your house that's what i mean no hell just be sitting here on your porch is all you do and look out at the lake lazy boy with a seat belt oh my god a of things to do here, and they both have to do with wings.
So it's all wing. It's all wing-related activities here.
First of all, on the outskirts of Memphis, there is the 23rd Annual World Championship Hot Wing Contest and Festival. Oh, that kind of wing.
That kind of wing, yeah. Oh, because of the – well, no, I don't know why.
Why do they do that there? They have all sorts of – I don't know, it's a barbecue place. I don't know why they do wings.
I mean, there's Nashville Hot Chicken, but that's on the entire opposite end of the state. And that's not a wing, too.
No, right. Yeah, chicken.
So they're going to have a wing eating contest and all that kind of thing. They will have bands, including Elevation Memphis featuring the Tina Turner Review.
Fantastic. A bunch of people who aren't Tina Turner singing Tina Turner songs.
A whole lot of people there. Uriah Mitchell and Lena Beach will be performing.
Terry, quote, Harmonica Bean will be performing. I wonder what he plays.
Then Sean Bad Apple. Sean Apple.
Sean Bad Apple. Yeah.
Delta Joe Sanders will be there. Delta Joe.
I think that is Neon Dion's cousin, Delta Joe. And then also, what is this, Memphis Funk and Horns, and then Earl the Pearl.
I don't know if that's Monroe. I'm sure it's not.
It's going to show up finger rolling in there. I don't know what's going on here.
And then locally, there is the inaugural Crittenden County Hot Wing Festival and Cook-Off. May as well.
We can co-opt what they're doing up there. Hot Wing eating contest, live entertainment.
There will be DJs. Sure.
Don't tell you who, but DJs. And then there will be a cakewalk.
I don't know what that is. Yeah, I've heard of them.
Do they walk on cake, I assume? Yeah. I think it's a walk, and at the end end you get a cake.
Is it hot or hot coals involved? There's got to be. No.
There's no broken glass. There's no knives.
You just walk on cake? Oh, it's a walk and then they give you cake slices afterwards. I don't know if you get a cake or a cake slice.
There's also cornhole, so there's that. Walk to cake and get cornhole.
Get yourself some some cornhole uh also area 51 will be playing there yeah what do they play well i'll tell you what they play they bring you a high energy show playing classics from sticks journey van halen boston and more you get it you just name those bands you get what they're playing 76 to 85 fucking rock that's what they're playing. Members of Area 51 have had the honor of playing with artists like Jimmy Jameson, spelled like Jimi Hendrix, Mickey Thomas, Steve Cropper, Charlie Hun, and Larry Raspberry.
Oh, if they played with Larry Raspberry, I'm there. They've played with all of those guys? Yeah.
I feel like we could, too. I don't know who those people are.
I know we're going to get lots of comments with people. You don't know Larry Raspberry? Holy shit.
I don't know Billy Blueberry either. Yeah, a picture of them at the fucking Ronnie Strawberry show last week.
Let's talk about some murder. What do you say? Please do.
Let's get away from this crazy shit and talk about something about Terry less murderous yeah Jesus Christ God fuck Connie cantaloupe to perform really bad so let's talk about some murder let's start in 1996 shall we okay 1996 let's talk about a lady who was an older lady at this point. She's going to be about 75 years old in 1996.

She's going to... shall we okay 1996 let's talk about a lady who is an older lady at this point she's gonna be about 75 years old in 1996 sally mckay m-c-k-a-y mckay um now she is the daughter she's a very prominent citizen in this area oh really so much so that she doesn't live here that much that's how prominent she is she's too prominent too prominent to live here all the time.
She is the daughter of Grace Snowden, her mother, and her father is Colonel Robert Snowden. Oh.
A very big deal and a very rich man. And so, yeah, that's this family.
He was a prominent farmer and a member of one of the county's oldest families. They go back to hardcore Civil War shit.
One of the uncles was one of Stonewall Jackson's main guys and all that kind of shit. Snowden here, the father, Colonel Bob, once bought the popular Peabody Hotel in Memphis and then sold it like three hours later to somebody else.
He made money deal. Yeah.
I was going to say he probably made some cash for no work for taking it to one guy and handing it to another. Just middled it.
He heard tell of a guy that needed a hotel. So he bought it and sold it.
I said, well, shit, I'll buy it. I got it.
And now it's a little more than you were going to pay for it before. So, yeah, that's this deal here.
So that's where she comes from, Sally. Very prominent people.
Sally's going to have a couple of daughters, Katie and Martha. Martha's born in 1957.
I don't know when Katie is born here. But now Martha talks about later on, there's an interview with her in 2015 with the daughter Martha called Lady of the Lake.
Martha is the Lady of the Lake? By 2015, Martha was the Lady of the Lake. And she told Memphis Magazine that growing up on Horseshoe Lake had been just wonderful.
She said, I felt like I was royalty with the big house and servants. Yeah.
What? You were living in another era. You were living in a hundred years before you era is what you were living in.
And you were living in an era that sounds incredible. Yeah.
I mean, yeah, but she was like the big house. We had a man that sang Zippity-Doo-Dah to us like she's co-opting Disney movies now.
She's living the end of Splash Mountain. Exactly.
Yeah. That's where it came from.

Everything was fresh from the garden, fresh eggs and all.

And we even had a peach orchard.

We got to swim every day and it was just ideal.

That's her childhood.

So she really had quite the childhood.

Sally ended up, the mother now, when Martha's a kid.

Sally ended up marrying, I don't know what happened to Colonel Bob, but I don't know if he died or whatever happened here. But Sally ended up marrying a professional actor from New York named David McKay.
That's how they're the McKay kids. That's why she's Martha McKay.
So after a few years of living in Horseshoe, they moved away to San Francisco places on the West coast, uh, taking the children with them. I'm sorry.
The Colonel was Sally's father. I'm sorry.
So yeah, that's, I don't know what happened to Martha's dad here, I guess. So anyway, they moved to San Francisco and other places on the West coast, you know, just moving around to where actors live.
Chasing Hollywood dreams, yeah. And this is what Martha said.
Mother would bring us back for the summer and leave us here. Mother.
Yeah. How many people you know call their mom mother? No.
None. I've never known anyone wealthy enough to call their mom mother.
And they don't say, like. Mother would bring us here.
Yeah, that's crazy. And just leave us here.
It was just wonderful. I felt like royalty.
And then she said, both my grandparents just love having a house full of kids and they showed it. So mom would just drop the kids off with the grandparents at the lake in the summer and then go back to touring the West Coast with her actor boyfriend.
What a great life. Not bad.
Now, Martha is going to end up moving to the West Coast as well because she kind of lives out there.

So she just spent summers at Horseshoe Lake.

1994, this house, it's called the Snowden House we'll talk about. Now, the Snowden House was Colonel Robert's house.

But later on, they turn it into a big bed and breakfast type place.

Sure. It's a wedding venue.
it's one of those type of places it's a new england's full of that shit tons of those yeah it's like a 6 000 square foot house on the lake and it's called the snowden house is what they call it and the family lives in another house like you know 100 feet away like they have a bunch of houses on the property that they live in. And there's the Snowden House.
In 1994, the Snowden House actually was a location for the movie The Client, the John Grisham book that was turned into a movie. Yeah.
Well, the client was a little kid, right? I want to say Julia Robertson or something. I don't know.
I don't remember. I think the client was.
Might be thinking Aaron Brockovich. I don't know.
I remember the movie, but there was a kid involved in that movie. Yeah.
the kid was the client, right? Yeah, exactly. And something's wrong with him, or he's a victim of something.
Some kind of murder bullshit, murder mystery bullshit. I don't know.
It's a book. This is not a mystery.
That's what happens here. Now, 1996 comes around.
Sally, Martha's mom, the mother, as she was called here. Matriarch, yeah.
Sally is also, for some reason, she's a certified public accountant. Really? And also a part-time antiques dealer.
Farting around. I mean, you've got to have hobbies.
I guess so, yeah. She's a member of, obviously, this big family.
She would spend much of her time at the lake managing the property, the Snowden House. Right.
So that's what she was doing by the 90s. Also around here, she has relatives, her nephew.
This is Martha's cousin, Sally's nephew. It's one of Sally's sibling's sons.
Sally's sibling's sons. Say that five times fast.
That's too much. This is Joseph Lee.
He goes by baker lee baker he's born in 1943 he's a musician and apparently a in in memphis in the blues scene he's a very well-known guy back then yeah yeah he's he's a high school teacher also so he's not making any money but he's very well known for his his skills here he played baker is a great name for fucking music. Lee Baker, that sounds like a Memphis-y name.

He played backup for the blues guy, Furry Lewis.

He played for him.

Furry.

F-U-R-R-Y.

Like Huey Lewis, but he's Furry Lewis.

But he's Furry Lewis and was around well before Huey, I think.

He's also playing with his own band, Lee Baker and the Agitators. Okay.
The Agitators. We make problems.
Yeah, he was a key member of the Furry Lewis band here from the 1960s and also in Moloch and Mudboy. Also bands as Moloch, M-O-L-O-C-H, Moloch.
Moloch. Moloch.
Also, Mud Boy and the Neutrons. That's good.
And he performed on albums by Big Star, Alex Chilton, and Jim Dickinson. I don't know any of these people.
I don't know any of those either. I don't know many local Memphis blues people, I guess.
I don't know. It's got to be what that is, right? It has to be, yeah.
In that scene, they're big people, but we don't know them. So in August of 1996, a big fire breaks out at his house where he lives with his wife and three children.
On the Snowden property? It's 100 yards away from the Snowden house. Or 100 feet away.
It's very close by. But it's a blaze of a fire.
I mean, guts this house. It really screws it up.

He had lived there with his wife, Carol, and their three sons for 30 years or 20 years.

And a year earlier, the house had been burglarized.

Somebody broke in, stole a bunch of shit.

But now it's just been burned to the fucking ground.

And it's arson, too.

Somebody did it on purpose. By the time the volunteer firefighters got to the house, it was too late to save it.

It was so hot that it melted the paint on one of the fire trucks.

Oh, Jesus.

That's how hot the fire was.

It was going strong.

A truck that showed up to fight it.

Truck full, just water everywhere.

There's a lot of water between that and the truck.

Fucking paint melted off of it.

Melted it.

Wow.

Yeah.

They only had three fire trucks, and one of them has a side that is definitely

you could use a paint job.

So that's August of 1996.

So there's an arsonist loose or something going on here.

Yeah.

September 10th, 1996, 1030 AM.

I guess Lee Baker was over at Sally's house because his house was burned to the fucking ground. It's gone.
Yeah. Yeah.
But there was just those two in the house and a fire breaks out in the house. In that house now, too.
That house, too. It's about 1030.
There's a fire bug afoot. I would say so.
So they come in. We'll talk about how they put it out and everything.
But they come in and put it out and rush inside to see if people are in there. And they find both Sally McKay and Lee Baker shot to death inside the house.
Oh, no. Inside of a burning house.
Yeah. So they don't think those wounds are from the fire, obviously.
So they're a little concerned here. So they're like, holy shit, this is fucking crazy.
And also the car is missing. Sally's car is missing.
Oh. But she's in the house shot to death in a burned house.
She didn't take it. So they're very confused.
Then at 1115 a.m., so about 45 minutes after the first alert for the fire happens, a neighbor who is traveling a gravel road about a mile and a half west of the house finds her car and it is over it's wrecked and overturned flipped it's on its roof and it looks like it bashed into something before that happened and it's it's still running two mile and a half away mile and a half to the west fuel pump not bad right still going upside down So it's a guy named Bobby Couples of Hughes who ended up finding the bright red late model Toyota Camry wrecked. It was on its side, not on its thing.
Still very impressive. It's not bad.
It's pretty good. So Couples, he drove to Bond's Marine to see if the boat shop's part owner might know who this car belongs to.

So I found a red car over its overturn.

You know anybody around here that drives a red car?

And this guy said that, oh, I do know who it belongs to.

I think that's Sally McKay's car.

So these two jumped in the car and headed for McKay's house.

Because the couple's guy knew Sally McKay, too.

They all did.

Everybody knows her around there.

She's the lady who owns Snowden House. They all know her.
And there's only a few hundred people here. That guy knows everybody.
Well, they own tons of property. So half the people in this town rent their house from Sally McKay.
So they all know her. She's either a landlord, an employer.
She employs tons of people to do stuff around these properties. So as soon as they saw the car, the guy from the marine shop, he knew it was, quote, Miss Sally, as the residents called her, because she's the rich lady who gives them jobs.
So they all call her Miss Sally. This guy said, I had never seen her down this road.
And so I don't know why she'd be down here. Now, this guy also happens to be a volunteer fireman and a member of the local rescue squad.
So he ends up at the fire anyway. Wow.
So he ends up going there. He said when he gets there, Lee's truck was backed up next to the back door with the tailgate open.
That's weird. Like somebody was putting it up to load shit in it.
Yeah, or loading. This guy said, I ran around the house and put my hand on the window and I could feel the heat.
So then they drove back to the boat repair shop to have someone call the local fire department. And that's how the fire got found originally.
Yeah. So the trucks arrived.
The two men were using, when the trucks arrived, those two guys were using a winch to pull the GMC Sierra that prolonged to Lee Baker away from the house. And they tore off the screen door and tried to go in.
They said much of the fire was limited to the living room and the kitchen area of the home. One volunteer firefighter, Beth Baldwin, who runs the Horseshoe Lake Grocery and Cafe, she was the one who sounded the alarm and got the other nine volunteer firefighters out there to it.
And she said, when we put the hoses down, we didn't see any flames. When we opened the door, that's when the flames broke out.
It was a matter of minutes and we had it out, though. Yeah.
We seen backdraft. Yeah.
So the fire was needing some oxygen. Right.
And that's why that's what kind of saved the house from completely, you know, being a huge blazing fire. Yeah.
So they said they had it out very quickly. So they were happy about that.
They said, but you could smell that they got there too late. More than that, you could smell burning flesh.
Oh, shit. That's what you could smell.
That's the problem. Oh, no.
And when they open the door and put everything out, they go, you can smell burning flesh here. There's a you could smell that's the problem no and when they open the door and put everything out they go you can smell burning flesh here there's a person here there's something here yeah or a big dog or something so um they said the one of the firefighters said i was hoping for the best that you're going to save someone the bodies were just burned so bad oh no so someone started this fire where the bodies were yeah on purpose to try to burn these bodies up so that's that's fucking bad um others uh they laid the bodies on the carport and covered them up when they took them out uh someone one of the firefighters who's lived and known lived here his whole life and known sally for 25 years said quite quote i don't care if you're black or white or whatever.
If you was in trouble, if you needed help and you went to Miss Sally, you could have got it. Lee was like that too.
He was the same way. In all my years, I've never seen anything like it.
You don't want to forget it, but then again, you don't want to remember it. Miss Sally would help anybody.
Would help anybody, and she did. Apparently, so many people worked for her.
She had everybody on the payroll. Because if someone needed a job and they needed a little extra income, she would hire her.
She'd find a job for them on her staff or whatever. Yeah.
Now, Baker's wife, this poor lady, because her own house had been completely destroyed a month ago, they said they lost everything they owned in that fire oh shit she said that quote she doesn't even have a picture of her husband i got nothing she said she doesn't even have a picture of her dead husband oh my god this is pre-digital so this is yeah physical pictures they've all been burned and they didn't have any chance to take new ones and now he's dead so she said i literally don't even have a picture of my husband imagine just she lost everything in a month hope she never gets fucking alzheimer's man all she's got her pictures in her head of him well i mean shit even even if you're fine after 20 years you start to forget you forget you forget what someone looks like you know what i mean we usually don't because we have pictures but yeah makes it easy yeah if you didn't see your mother for 20 years and never saw a picture of her and then you had a sketch artist drawer i bet it wouldn't look exactly like her you know what i mean not yeah your memory will fuck things up hey everybody just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit about our safest sponsors, Simply Safe. And everyone has routines that you go through, make you feel good, make you feel secure, like you have control over the world.
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Quince.com slash smalltownmurder. and now back to the show so obviously they're gonna search somebody did this obviously because at first they thought oh no these two people died in this fire and then they noticed they had gunshot wounds all over them and they said okay maybe not now we gotta search so now it's now it's frantic because now a bad accident's one thing but a fucking guy murder murdering prominent people and setting their houses on fire seems like a more pressing matter.
Murdering the best people. So, yeah, for the area, people that everybody likes.
And likely been trying for a minute because a month ago a house burned down here. Somebody likes to take shit.
That house was robbed, too. So they think that maybe this is a connection to that.
Es but escalation they're saying that they don't know of any connection at this point they said that they don't uh know if the deaths were related to a fire about a month ago and they said you know because no one was injured in that fire so they're not sure so they search the surrounding fields they use people on horseback they have tracking dogs um from the state prison. They get a helicopter from Memphis to come in to help them.
And they're searching everywhere for any sign of another person. And the search is called off about 3 o'clock, though.
They don't find anybody, and they don't think they're going to find anybody. Oh, no.
I think whoever it is got away. So this is obviously the biggest thing that's happened around here in you know yeah in a long time since they since they dammed up the fucking lake this is the biggest thing this is the biggest thing since the flood of 37 big deal raspberry's been here oh jesus we had sally strawberry here two months ago so they had uh state police and county deputies turned Horseshoe Lake's volunteer fire department into an investigation center.

Yeah.

They just spread everything out on the floor.

They're chasing down possible leads. They're, yeah, a state trooper and a polygraph examiner was there to interview people as well.

They had like just a parade of people going in and out, getting fingerprinted, polygraphed, basically anyone that lived around there. So they said that they have no suspects at this point, but one of the people they question is a 20-year-old named Edrick Smith, E-D-R-I-C-K Smith.
He's 20 years old. He's got a bit of a checkered past.
He's got some arrests. Never murdered anybody or burned a house down, but he lives in the area, and he's got a bit of a past.
And he's fucked up a few times, yeah. So he's of the right ilk of people you want to talk to.
And he said about this, I'm there at my house, and I'm with my daughter, and I see four or five cars pull up on the side. They came to get his get his ass they were like who has a criminal record within 20 miles of this fucking house and then they bum rushed everybody he said they got my thumb print they got my palm print and they took a piece of hair and they gave me a polygraph test okay so thumb and palm tells you that that's they're looking to match a thumb and a palm yeah they've got a fingerprint somewhere yeah that tells me a lot he said they were aggressive they said we think it's you we think it's you oh my yeah he said it's fucking not me um no he said and he said that they were searching for whoever quote killed the lady and they told him somebody's gonna go down for this they have to this lady's too important here i mean yeah in this town if we don't catch this person no one will ever sleep at night so we got to catch this person the family theory and the cops are kind of also thinking it possibly is that it might have been more than one person involved yeah to control both of them and uh and burn a house you've got to be able yeah it's's got to be.
I mean, you could just shoot them. So I don't know why they thought.
But they said that this is a family relative. I think this is one of Lee's friends said it took more than one person to kill him.
They would have had to. They would have put up a struggle.
I know that. OK.
So they're thinking it would be more. The town freaks out.
This is like you not. This is like, holy shit, because now they think someone's not only killing people, burning houses down.
This is a terrifying thing. So residents are carrying, everyone's walking around carrying huge guns with them.
Open. Talking to their neighbors just with giant, like a huge hunting rifle.
With a 12-gauge on your shoulder. Yep.
They said nobody got any sleep. One of the residents locally said, it's just just scary a lot of people didn't get much sleep last night when the sun went down there weren't hardly any vehicles on the streets yeah people are just sitting on their porches with their shotgun waiting went and got a went and got a holster for my 30-06 a hip holster yeah i needed it hip holster for a remington you're looking out in the dark.
Somebody lights up their cigarette. You're firing at them.
Fire, pow! It's you! I see a flame. You're dead.
So, yeah, the people from the grocery there, the grocery and cafe, said, I've never saw so many people with firearms. The peaceful life is what I moved out here for.
I got tired of Memphis. We're out here to get away from this.
Yeah, Memphis is where that's at. Murder and fucking armed, murdered people.
So weeks go by with no arrest. What? As you can imagine, this is not settling well with anybody who lives here.
Weeks go by. In early October, they finally put a reward out.
It's a $10,000 reward for information leading to the arrest and that's what they're doing. They said that investigators with the Sheriff's Department said they have worked diligently in gathering evidence in this matter and obviously they have ugots at this point.
They got nothing. Now we have $10,000 since the rest of it didn't work.
They said in the event that two or more people provide substantial information leading to an arrest, then the reward fund would be prorated and paid in percentages to the individual supplying information. You better hurry and bring the information you got or face the consequences of 20%.
It's a race against time here. That's what I mean.
Someone else is going to come first, and then what happens? Yeah. And with the society arming up like fucking Deadpool, who's to say they don't shoot the guy before we get information? Or each other.
Who knows? Like I said, somebody lights a goddamn cool out in the yard, and he's getting blown away because he's got a fucking lighter on him. So enter Travis Santay Lewis.
S-a-n-t-a-y is sante um that's his middle name travis lewis he's born in 1980 he is 15 years old he's also eldrick smith's younger brother as well okay the guy who got aggressively brought in there and said we we think it's you. It's this guy's younger brother.

Okay.

Who's 15.

Travis, the police come and arrest him on October 5th, 1996.

They pull up to his house and pull him out of his house.

He's a 10th grade.

He's a sophomore at Hughes High School.

He's a baby.

He's a kid.

He's also a student of Lee Baker in high school.

Lee Baker's his English teacher, i believe so um okay that's one thing he's a 10th grader and a student in english from lee baker and also he is a uh he his grandparents rent their home from sally mckay okay so in this town Everybody knows everybody. Yeah.
a student of one both of them and a tenant of another basically so that's what's going on here so the investigation leads them to travis who lives on one of the properties on the fucking estate he lives on the lake with these people in a rented house so um travis and lee baker's two sons were good friends from school they all knew each other yeah and uh he denied knowing anything about the murders when they brought him into the into the police station he even passed a polygraph test that's good at 15 too he passed a polygraph test at 15 there's not like he's allowing him yeah an arch criminal where you know well yeah he's been in the system for so long of course he can pass a polygraph yeah he's not ted bundy you know what i mean so the police learned that that uh young travis here was suspended from school on the day of the murders uh-oh so they were like okay he was off three day yeah because otherwise you know if he's at school it's a pretty good alibi. But he wasn't.
So they said, come on in for a second polygraph test. And then he failed that polygraph test.
Oh, no. Which I'm not.
Listen, if you brought me in for one, I know I didn't do it and I passed. And they're like, we still don't believe you.
We're going to bring you in again. I might be more nervous now.
Maybe. Because if I passed once and they're making me do it again, they really think I did this.
And they trying to make sure i did it you know what i mean or or they know that they asked me questions that uh were not incriminating and now they've got some that are they asked did you kill sally and lee and he said no and they said okay that's not a lie yeah so that's you know that's a that's the first thing they fucking asked him okay but perhaps he's convinced himself that he didn't kill them or maybe he didn't kill them maybe somebody else did so he can say that and who knows who knows but now we've now we failed now after some questioning for they get him in the box for a few hours here uh he admitted okay i was the one who burgled lee baker's home last month or in august down that burned down. But he said, I didn't kill anybody and I didn't burn that house down.
A friend of mine did. And then he also said that I didn't, I was at the house where Sally and Lee was, but I didn't do anything.
My friend killed them, not me. Oh my God.
I was there to rob the house. Okay.
And they came and found us robbing the house, so my friend killed them not me oh my god i was there to rob the house okay but and they they came and found us robbing the house so my friend killed them and tried to burn the house down okay we are on a great path now that's yeah now we're now we're feeling like we're going somewhere yeah so they said okay um they he makes a statement so that confirms his presence at the scene. Not good.
Not good. And later on, they find his hair and DNA inside of the car that was overturned.
Sally's car. Oh, no.
Because he's 15 and not a great driver. He can't drive.
He wrecked it. He wrecked himself, yep, wrecking it.
So then they also recovered his fingerprints from the driver's side door as well. Oh, Jesus.
No other fingerprints or from this mystery friend by the way no hair fingerprints or dna meanwhile his dna hair and fingerprints are all on it so whoever's whoever's in that car is leaving some physical marker and yeah this guy him it's only him so they suspect based on what he said saying that sally and Lee surprised them and his friend killed them.

They think,

well,

he was probably robbing the house.

Sally and Lee came home,

surprised him.

Oh,

he shot them and tried to cover it up basically.

So,

um,

the,

and also the neighbors noticed the fire so fast that it didn't get to

really burn any of the evidence or anything away.

And they could tell very easily that they'd been shot.

So,

I mean,

that they would have had to been burned to char to not be able to burn to dust and they'd still find the bullets under them that were in their bodies that are now burned out of them they'd still find bullets there and wonder where they came from that guy that that killed and burned his entire family in scottsdale that's still on the run yeah they knew what happened oh god those babies throats were slit and that house was an inferno yep that's there's a very yeah it's hard to get rid of that evidence the forensic science and in the forensic anthropology they can do and all that kind of shit is so it's hard man yeah it's really hard you have to burn them to you have to incinerate them to dust and even then you better hope there was no poison because they'll get it from the fucking— They'll find it from the blood. They'll find a bone chunk and they'll extract it.
Yeah. So then they get a dive team from Shelby County, Tennessee, to assist the Arkansas State Police and the sheriff's departments of the county to search for the gun they believe was used in the killing because they don't have that yet.
Okay they are doing this. They figure it's in the lake probably because why not? And they can't find the fucking gun anywhere in the lake.
They drag the lake. Really? Everything.
Yeah, you name it. They're trying.
If divers are out there looking for this gun, they can't find it. So a cousin of Travis here said family members are shocked that he's been charged with this crime and that they think he's a murderer.
The one family member said his grandparents are really tore up. When I saw his mother, she was taking it pretty bad.
You know, your 15-year-old's being charged with a double murder? Yeah. Crazy.
That's weird. So they're going to end up within the next year and a half here when he is going to end up pleading guilty to this, by the way.
Wow. Pleads guilty to two counts of first-degree murder.
What about his friend? No friend. No friend.
He'll always say there was a friend, but he won't ever say who it was. He won't say who it was, and there's no evidence of the friend.
But he'll never confess to this murder he he always says he didn't do this murder but he still pleads guilty he doesn't well the death penalty was on the table here they were saying even though he was a minor so i don't know how that would have worked because i don't know i can't remember exactly when that law was passed we just did a thing about it but um the also the family and and led by martha the most, uh, is very anti that they feel bad for this kid.

Martha, especially he's 15 years old.

The family's known his family for a long time.

They rent to the grandparents.

He's a student of Lee's and they don't understand this whole thing.

And Martha believes him that he wasn't the killer also.

Absolutely.

So they kind of plead for leniency, especially Martha.

Martha pleads for leniency for the kid.

And so he says another man killed the two people.

And the families are okay with the guilty plea.

The prosecutor said the families felt it would be traumatic to go through a trial.

It was a reasonable disposition.

So just accepting it.

Yeah, they're okay with it, and they think it's such a young

kid, too. I mean, what are we going to do here?

Try to really screw him to the wall? He's going to get a lot

of years anyway. So the

judge here, David Burnett, accepts

the plea deal and sentences him to

you, sophomore,

may fuck off 28

and a half years for murder

and an additional five years for

burglary and theft charges, but that will run

concurrently with the murder, and

Thank you. May fuck off 28 and a half years for murder and an additional five years for burglary and theft charges.
But that will run concurrently with the murder. And he will be eligible for parole in a little over 20 years.
Oh, yeah. So there's that in his 30s.
So Martha ends up coming back from California to run the house. Yeah.
Now it's her responsibility. It's a business.
a business now. So she does.
And in 19, and she ends up buying the house from her family because it went into a trust with a bunch of people or whatever. In addition to this, there's, it's a thousand acres of lakefront property that they own with the Snowden house, which is the big mansion is the centerpiece.
Her longtime friend said she loved that house. And when her mother was killed in it, she said Martha was devastated like we all were.
And, you know, she wanted to get the house back up. So she does and runs it as a bed and breakfast and a wedding venue.
So much so Memphis Magazine does a huge long spread on her called Lady of the Lake. And it's kind of a luxury bed and breakfast now.
And she says, my grandparents were world-class travelers, and they had seen an antebellum plantation home in Louisiana, and that's supposedly what my grandmother patterned this home after. Yes.
She said, oh, boy. Doesn't that remind you of slavery? Let's go ahead and fucking build a...
The nice times of yesteryear. Let's build a fucking slavery tribute home, shall we? So they did.
So two... Yeah.
They talk in this article, they say, two centuries ago, Horseshoe Lake was nothing more than a tight bend in the Mississippi River. The New Madrid earthquakes of 1811 and 1812 changed all that.
I didn't know anything about that. The upheaval shifted the main channel of the river eastward, leaving an oxbow lake that became a haven for creatures that swam, flew, slithered, and crawled.
Awesome. Yeah, it just left a little tributary with nothing connected to anything.
So it's a lake now. So that's kind of cool here.
And there's also four smaller lakes and ponds. They said over the years, a few families settled in the area, and eventually there was cotton plantations here too.
It was there. But the Snowden family, they were kind of really, they were the ones that really were buying up this land.
As we know, they ended up with 1,000 acres of of it the original plan was to renovate the home this is what martha wanted to do when she came took it back over and renovate it and make it her private residence and then open up the house and grounds for wedding receptions and parties and special events uh so she she recruited i don't know where she got her money from but she recruited some restoration expert and an interior designer and all these people. It's got to be the actor, right? I don't know.
Well, the whole family seems to have old money, so I don't know what's going on. Yeah, seems to be.
They have early 1800s German oil lamps suspended from elaborate chains in the ceiling, all this type of shit. The bathroom's got new Calcutta gold marble countertops.
Jesus Christ. They added heated flooring.
She said the kitchen was a major challenge because it had been used as a restaurant. And the walls were just covered in gook.
Gook. Not goop.
Gook. Scunge, as we found out from a live show that would be.
Yeah. So we just took them down and exposed the bare pine walls.
The yellowed asbestos ceiling tile got the same treatment. She retained the original metal Geneva cabinets from the 40s and added zinc countertops.
So they just really spruced it up. She said, I needed to bring the home up to the 21st century.
And she also put in air conditioning she said otherwise we had all these you know window units she said these giant box air conditioners were hanging out of every window the kitchen the side porch is everywhere it was horrible and you could imagine the expense and in the basement i found a gas guzzler of a furnace it was costing 11 or a thousand dollars a month to heat the place golly jesus and. And that's in the 80s or late 90s.
And that's 6,000 square feet. It's a giant-ass place.
It's a big house. And it's hot in the summer, man.
That's a hot area in the summer and cold in the winter. So that's rough.
So they said it's a three-story, 6,000-square-foot home that's described as stately and elegant with luxurious architectural details that include a grand marble-floored entrance with sweeping staircase, antique crystal chandelier, and a Carrera marble fireplace, all of which are heirlooms from one of the original family homes in Memphis. Carrera marble in the 90s.
That just became real popular now. Wow.
Yeah, that's in the mainstream. But really rich upper crust fucks.
I had the curve shit, yeah. Knew a lot of shit that we never heard of until, you know, until like fake rich people came along now and told us about them.
Well, until, yeah. Instagram people and shit like that.
Until people with mortgages that could just put off paying for that 30 years from now. I figured I'd second mortgage my house to put some Carrera marble in instead.
Oh, all right. That's a good idea.
God, I love a HELOC. That's wonderful.
Jesus Christ. So they said that from the website here, from the Snowden House website, they said it's perhaps the lake's most impressive property, functioning in recent years as a bed and breakfast and as Memphis's premier wedding venue.
Oh, it's a good place. This is a place if you live in Memphis and you want to go have like a country, like a wedding in this big grand thing, you come here.
That's where you do it. It's only 40 minutes away.
Now to travis lewis he's in prison while martha's doing all this and he is he wants parole once 20 years comes up yeah i'd like to go home late you know 2016 i think is when he's up for parole and so there is you know some want for and martha supports this parole fully yeah she supports the parole. A first cousin of Martha, Dottie, said that, yeah, that she that Martha befriended him while he was in prison.
She used to go visit Travis in prison, send him letters. They were they were like pen pals and everything.
And she said that she was just she thought he was a decent guy and a young guy who whatever for whatever reason made a mistake and she doesn't think he's even the murderer she thinks he's just a kid who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and ruined his life basically so she feels bad for him and she's probably got a small connection to him because what she's missing he's the last person that saw them alive that too you know something maybe maybe she he can give a detail but she doesn't think he killed him she doesn't think he killed her so even if he didn't kill him he was there and he was the last person to see him to her knowledge so martha by the way martha is also a buddhist and very much she has a very live and let live or very kill and let live in this case attitude.

Real kill and let live attitude.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

You know how that goes.

Very progressive.

Yeah.

That's yeah.

She's a Buddhist and that makes sense, I guess.

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Now back to the show.

So she has a, everyone says, a real big heart.

And something about her, everybody loves her because she's like that.

She's open to anybody and she's not judgmental.

And people said she left a really good impression on people she always had that gift to make people feel comfortable it's really the goal of what everybody everybody's goal should be is that because you're just you're literally trying to make the world a better place regardless of their people's mistakes and we should probably all be so so kind and now and her friends said as a big time buddhist she believed in forgiveness which i think what religion isn't forgiveness is a big thing is there any religion there were they're like the whole point the whole point is to smite your enemies that's the point there's no religion the whole point is to sin and just die sin and die and if anyone fucks you over you fuck them back harder that's a lost book of the bible i don't know anything about yeah somebody sins against you you sin harder you sin harder you show that you want to see what a sin is i'll fucking show you what a sin is and then you you lay them to waste yeah for sinness she she actually she actually you know takes all this forgiveness shit to heart and forgives this guy. She loves it.
A family friend named Frank Bird drove her to the state penitentiary to see him and said, I told her I didn't think it was a good idea, but she didn't answer me. She just straight ahead.
They said that you really shouldn't hang out with this guy and shit like that. So 2018 comes around, and she is one of the main petitioners for his parole.
Oh, boy. Being the daughter of the main victim here and all that, they take that seriously.
Sure, sure. And the fact that he was 15 when it happened also, and she gives a sob story for also then they're like well fuck if the family can forgive him i guess we'll let him out we have to as the state yeah so they parole him she not only gets him paroled she offers him a room in the bed and breakfast and gives him a job as a groundskeeper wow she moves him in and gives him a fucking job like she's trying to put him back on his feet, which is amazing.
And he was like, well, shit. Yeah.
I mean, there's not a lot of job offers for, you know, what experience do you have? Well, let's see. I've been in prison since I was 15.
So not much. It's tough going.
Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm pretty good at lighting a fire outside of that.
I don't really have much. So they said, uh, the friends were still shocked that she would bring him in that close they were like you know what the fuck um at one point uh her family friend said we had said to her just stay away from him it's a bad juju type of thing but she wouldn't do it she had to she had to do it and uh she wrote letters to him in prison and wrote letters to the parole board for years saying this guy's gonna come come up for parole soon look at him this guy let him go yeah she's like a scout like a parole scout yeah yeah this guy he's tearing it up in the minors you really want to see this guy got a great left oh my god it's amazing so they said the family said we were contacted every time he came up for parole none of us us would OK it except for her.
And she would not only OK it.

She was all for it.

What is going on with this?

That is so Buddhist.

She wants to make a difference in somebody's life here.

She felt bad he was so young. And she honestly believed that someone else did it because that's what he said.

And she believed him wholeheartedly.

And the sheriff said, I think it was her mission to find out what happened to her mother and to find out if someone else was involved and who that was so they think that might have also been a reason sure maybe if he can get she can get this guy to trust her he'll tell her what really happened and then she's some closure get some closure maybe find the person who really killed her mother also so mar Martha hires him, kind of quietly gives him a job working on the property because his mother, Gladys, is a housekeeper there for years. Martha hired his mother, Gladys, as a housekeeper because she had a stigma on her because her son is a murderer.
So she felt bad. She hired her.
So she said, OK, now he's a groundskeeper and he works alongside of his mother who's a housekeeper so that's interesting then out of nowhere this is in 2018 in 2020 early 2020 gladys comes to martha and tells this about her own son she says just stay away from travis because he's going back to his old ways. His old ways, what, when he was 14? Yeah.
What, he's doing biology homework? What are you talking about? What old ways? Trying to learn the Pythagorean theorem. Yeah, no, he's fucking, he's watching Doug and shit.
Like, he's just doing, like, all sorts of 90s weird teen shit. Going back to his own ways.
I caught him him with a mad magazine yeah it was weird jerking off to a playboy from 92 it was strange stuff i don't like it it was a pamela anderson penthouse he had i was like this is weird makes me feel awkward in 2015 it's very strange he's all 39 years old now it's odd so she ends up firing him not because of what the mother said either she still kept him on but apparently at one point um she sold a chandelier for ten thousand dollars cash okay which she kept in the house yeah okay now travis stole the ten thousand dollars he was there when she came home with the money and knew about it. And then the money vanished like that night.
And he was the only one who had access to it. So she had to fire him over that.
She's like, okay, I gave you. You killed my mother, for Christ's sake.
Like, I'm pretty forgiving. Take a mile.
For a holy shit. Yeah, this is kill me once.
Shame on me. You know what I mean? But shame on you.
on you so he's yeah she said so they said travis happened to be there that day this is uh martha's sister then the money vanished she fired him after the money disappeared so he's gone from the house that's early 2020 march 25th 2020 as if the world wouldn't have enough fucking this point. Yeah, that was a bad time.
Bad time here. The Snowden house is located by the way, this is right next to where her mother was murdered in the other house.
This is the Snowden house. So her mom's murder house is right there too.
And it's still standing because it didn't burn down. It didn't burn down all the way.
Well, she's in the regular Snowden house here, and the police get a notification from a silent alarm at that house. She has an alarm next to her phone that's in her phone, like the house thing.
That is a direct alarm to the police that something's going on. So they get to the – but it's a silent alarm.
It doesn't set off a big, nobody knows that it's happening. Yeah.
Except for the cops. So the cops zoom to the house and they run to the house and when they open up the back door, here's a quote from the sheriff.
Deputies today responded to an alarm at the historical Snowden house in Horseshoe Lake. Two deputies arrived, found an open back door, and upon a clearing in the house, located a possible suspect who jumped from an upstairs window down to the lawn and ran to a vehicle and drove across the yard.
He then got, the suspect then got stuck in the yard in the vehicle because it's muddy and marshy. Quote, the suspect then jumped from the car and ran and jumped into the lake.
He was observed going under the water and never came back up. What? The suspect jumped in the lake and drowned himself.
Or just couldn't swim and made a bad decision. Or found a pipe and went somewhere else? No, it's not Super Mario.
The murderer, whoever this is, isn't Luigi. He didn't go find a pipe.
He went in the lake and drowned. You can't drown yourself? Apparently you can.
If you can't swim, I don't know if the guy couldn't swim or what. He never came back up.
So rescue teams from the sheriff's department and Game and Fish, they're using sonar equipment to try to recover this person. Anyway, we'll get to that in a second.
As those cops are chasing this guy, more cops show up and they find, quote, the body of a female deceased inside the house. Oh, Jesus.
They found Martha inside the house, murdered. I mean, brutally murdered, stabbed and bludgeoned.
What the hell? Stabbed many, many times and bludgeoned with a hammer. Destroyed.
Destroyed. She's at the top of the stairs.
There was an obvious thing going on here that this person did not know that an alarm was pressed. At the top of the the stairs near a bag filled with her belongings

along with a bloody knife oh boy so this person dropped the shit if they were dragging out the

body because she is wrapped in blankets as well oh my god so he's dragging whoever this is is

dragging her and a bag of her shit and her knife and then heard cops are here and went oh shit and

just ran and jumped out the closest window that's what happened um so yeah there's a um uh the

Thank you. shit and her knife and then heard cops are here and went oh shit and just ran and jumped out the closest window that's what happened so yeah there's a cloth bag on top of a nearby chair containing several valuables and a bloody kitchen knife as well because there was a utility knife on the floor next to her so they said it was determined that the intent was to steal these items however it was not determined whether the intentions were to burglarize the home and if she was killed in the process of this intention, process, or if the intention was to murder her and then they just opted to steal the items.
So is this a murder because of a burglary or a burglary because of a murder? While I'm here, I might as well take some shit. Which begot what? Which, yeah, exactly.
So they end up dragging the lake using sonar, finding the body of the perpetrator. Get the fuck out of here.
They found him in the lake. They pull him out of the lake.
What? It's Travis Lewis. Of course it is.
It's fucking true. They were like, holy shit.
The cops didn't think that. I mean, we just told the story, but the cops were like, are you fucking kidding me? What the fuck? It's this asshole again.
Yeah. You fucking asshole.
They pull him out. They do a tox screen on him, too.
Turns out he had cocaine and methamphetamine in his system. Get out of my life.
So he got all methed up to go steal some shit. And she was there, and he killed her.
Didn't realize she set off a silent alarm. Thought he had time to start robbing the house.
What the fuck did he think was going to happen? I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know if he tried to go in the lake and hide behind a... I don't know what his plan was.
Clearly this was not... He didn't think whatever his dismount was in his head.
Yeah. It didn't include two cops showing up in the middle of what he was doing.
Did he think there was going to be like a straw under there that he could just hide? He had like a scuba. I think he thought there was pipes like you did.
I think we're dealing with this. Where's the pipe? Where's the pipe? Shit, there's a pipe.
Send me to World 8. I want to go where there's there's coins send me somewhere i think he was fucking like a yogi bear that he was just gonna breathe through a reed and let the bees pass i'm not sure what happened what the fuck is he doing that's what the fuck he did it's crazy to the bottom and just like grab a hold of some roots and try to wait it out i don't know he's i was trying to hide under there i don't know if maybe he couldn't swim maybe that too but if you grew up on a fucking lake you think you'd know how to swim you'd think so but maybe you've been in prison for 20 years and then he's been here you think you'd have figured it out i don't know is that like biking i don't know like we said someone had to have thrown him in that lake and went airs that way motherfucker he was born in 1980 he's like our age because they would have done the same thing to him they did to us so i feel like he'd know how to swim at this point um i don't know what happened to this kid but he is just he's fucked up bad fucking seed man at first you're like oh must just be so something must have happened who knows he's 15 now it's like you're just evil you're fucking evil.
You're fucking evil monster. You're a fucking monster.
And you always were. And it came out early in you.
And he was like drawn back to the site to do it again. And to the same people.
It's fucking insane. And Martha trying to be nice.
Talk about no good deed goes unpunished. Jesus Christ.
This is fucking horrible. This is an example of never do anything nice for anyone ever forgiveness for schmivness fuck yeah he wouldn't he wouldn't hurt me I've helped him I've done this my mom is in his mom's implied by me nope fuck him fuck him fuck him keep him in prison nope So he's, I get it, 15 years old, because here's the thing, and it's very similar.

My great-grandmother as we know was murdered as i've said a lot uh she was murdered and the woman who did it was a crackhead who was there trying to steal shit who was 20 years old at the time it happened was very young at a young child like all this shit And she comes up for parole all the time and always gets denied yeah and i think about it in my head i'm like okay that was over almost 35 years ago yeah so there's a lot of difference between 20 and 55 and i have the same thoughts i'm like shouldn't isn't it about isn't about time like i feel like them but then i read this and, maybe fuck him. That's what I'm saying.
You know what I'm saying? What am I supposed to do here? Go with God, honey. I don't give a shit.
I don't know anymore. I don't want anything to do with you, nor your fucking bullshit.
What I'm saying is I get where Martha's thinking because. Sure.
I've had these thoughts, too, where I'm like, Jesus Christ. I barely remember when I was 20 years old.
If someone said, you're still going to be held for outside of kids, you're still going to be held for accidents you had when you were 20 or mistakes you made when you were 20. Boy, I would be like, wow, I barely remember those things happening.
Yeah. And that lady's child has filed taxes so many times by now.
Oh, God. Yeah.
They're fucking 35 years old. Yeah.
I mean, it's crazy. That's fucked.
But I don't know. Fuck them.
That's what I mean. Maybe it's fuck them.
I don't know. That's what I usually say.
I'm usually a fuck them person, but I'm trying to be nice. And I don't know.
You try to have some fucking decorum and some sympathy. Just decency.
Some human decency. Yeah.
But fuck them. Fuck them.
Maybe it's fuck it's fuck them i don't know you're gonna come back and finish the family yeah that's what i mean what we let this lady out she comes and kills who now i don't know me i don't know probably not but i can't do this alone don't go to florida very often but you never know i don't want to do this alone it'll be a real quiet show jimmy's like i'm not doing research or writing shit down

or reading to you welcome to jimmy waits for another friend.com jimmy's show is called please read to me that's what it's called somebody tell me a story on this episode of jimmy waits for a friend still waiting hey guys

something bad must have happened to somebody

and I'd love to tell you about it but still waiting see you next week maybe maybe next time Jesus Christ so neighbors said they were shocked to have another murder happen here because it's so outside of these three murders nothing's ever happened here it's just travis yeah one said we locked our doors and remained inside and prayed for the best how about i don't think i think it's one guy and he's around in the lake i think we're good now yeah um the neighbor said it's just a scary thing that's happened we're praying for the family yeah the sheriff said i met her a few times about martha and she was a nice interesting interesting lady, which means some whack job from California. That's what that means.
I don't know. Some fucking hippie.
I don't know what the hell she was doing. He's already living.
Fuck him. What a dick.
She really restored that place back to its original beauty. It's such a tragedy and, well, mind boggling that a 15 year old would commit these murders and then, you know, allegedly come back and do something so horrible again.
I think we can take the allegedly off. He served time for it, man.
He ran away from the corpse, jumped out a window, and drowned himself. I'm pretty sure he killed her, too.
I don't think there's anybody else involved. And he's convicted in the other one, so...
Yeah, pled guilty. You can take the alleged off once someone pleads guilty.

Number one, I don't think he's going to sue you, man.

No.

And I think he'd have a pretty good case if he did.

If his family decided to sue us for saying he murdered Martha, I think we're going to

rock your shit in court.

I think we're going to win.

You got nothing.

So no one else was there and he fled from there and then drowned himself.

Drowned himself.

I've never drowned myself in fear of anybody else. Never.
Never. So the sister said, we're all in disbelief.
We're all just in disbelief. Martha didn't deserve to be killed.
She didn't deserve anything that happened to her. No.
Right. She was being as kind and as forgiving.
I can't believe how kind she is. I mean, if you're a religious person, that's pretty Christ-like, quote unquote, would be to say to embrace the person that did this to your family and try to find something good in them.
Buddha would high-five the shit out of that lady. Well, yeah, her corpse anyway.
That's the problem. Buddha would be like, oh, shit, another one? I've high-fived so many corpses.

Maybe I should reconsider my philosophies on this forgiveness shit.

They're the reincarnation people, right?

Yeah.

No, no, that's Hindu.

Damn it.

Yeah.

Buddhism, I think, is reincarnation, too.

Is it?

I think they have a system.

It's like be like water people, right?

Yeah, there's a different thing where, like think Hindu is like you literally like are – but there's karma. So karma would be you'd come back as something better or something worse because Buddhism does that too.
Buddhism has – yeah, if you're shitty, then you come back as a shittier thing and then you can work your way up to a person again. Yeah.
You better be a good pig. Apparently, that's the ultimate reward of karma is to be a person, which to hate yourself and just fucking be unsure and eat your mind alive, that's the best? I think a dog is the best.
See, the way my dogs live? It's such a short life. Holy shit.
You don't know that. You're a dog.
Yeah. You're just loving it.
You don't even know you're a dog yeah you're just loving it you don't even

know you're gonna die because you're a fucking dog that's what's great you have no idea it's gonna happen someday that's fucking awesome that's what i want to be some of them gotta know right at the end there my dogs have no idea that anything bad could happen they think life is just a fucking my vaughn's got arthritis in his back he knows he's still so thrilled though he's so, though. He's so happy.
He's so happy. I came over.
He was jumping my dogs. I don't care.
He wiggles that arthritis all over the face. Yeah, Frankie had fucking cancer all over her.
She had an open leg wound. You came over.
She's like, oh, God, jumping all over you. She doesn't care.
She didn't give a shit. She didn't care.
Maybe it is a dog. Anyway, I think a dog is the best.
A dog if you're owned by someone who likes dogs, I guess. I hope Travis comes back as a tumor on a dog.
There you go, Trey. That gets cut out and thrown away in the biohazard bag.
So there you go, everybody. That is Horseshoe Lake, Arkansas.
And that's a fucking crazy story. You got to live fuck them now.
You have to, I guess. I don't know.
Well, if somebody put it this way, you don't have to live fuck them but if someone kills your mother maybe fuck that person fuck him fuck that one it kills your mother that's bad i guess that guy's no good outside of that maybe you can forgive but maybe not i don't fucking know if you do forgive you may be murdered by a future drowning victim watch out that said hope you enjoyed that show if you did please tell everybody about the show tell the world tell your friends tell your family tell social media get on whatever app you're on and give us five stars it helps a ton doesn't matter what you say say the age you learned to swim and how you did it that'd be great just say i'm six years old took a class and we'll know what you're talking about four dad threw me in great said air Great. Set airs up.
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