Notorious: Ted Bundy - Part 2

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Two weeks after his second escape from prison, Ted Bundy brutally assaults four Florida State University sorority students while they were sleeping.

Tragically, he leaves two dead and another two unconscious.

It was January the 15th, 1978, when I got a call.

There's been what we think multiple murders at the sorority house.

I'm Ken Cosares.

I was the sheriff of Leon County, Florida.

I was on the scene and directed the Ted Bundy murder investigation.

I knew that not only did we have a crime on campus, but there was something very different about what we faced.

You could tell which victim was first, which one was second.

You could tell which one was third and which one was fourth, because the first one was brutally, brutally beaten.

Like he was expending energy as he went,

exhausting himself.

We were very fortunate that Nita Neary had seen the person exit Cai Omega.

She only saw him in profile, but we had a general description of what the person looked like, and that description was given to everybody who was going to canvass in the neighborhood.

Ted Bundy had a non-threatening physical being.

He fit into the crowd well.

And my understanding was while emergency personnel were around the Cuyomega house, he was in the crowd drinking a beer.

I never appeared being identified because if you just act normal, people are not going to say, I want to to do what's wrong with you.

The more paranoid you become, the more likely it is you get caught because you start acting differently.

FSU was a homicidal boast.

It was the place he was going to do something extraordinary.

He wanted to go back to the same location that same night and assault another young woman, and he was successful in doing so.

Cheryl Thomas lived in a little duplex about five blocks to the west of Chi Omega, right on the edge of campus.

She occupied one side and then the other side was occupied by two young women.

I'm Debbie Cigrelli-Touchton.

My name is Nancy Young.

Cheryl Thomas, Nancy Young, and myself, we lived together back in 1978.

They were both students at the School of Dance.

And let me tell you, you talk about beautiful dancers.

Cheryl could have been something huge.

Cheryl had a first date that night and we were all at the same bar.

It was the night of the 14th.

Went to Big Daddy's, our usual disco dancing night.

Cheryl left before we did, approximately around midnight.

Nancy and I got home around 2 a.m.

When we got home, Cheryl's light was out.

We figured she was home from her date early and she had gone to sleep.

Then we just went to bed.

I normally am a very heavy sleeper.

For some reason, that night I was not.

And just this very loud noise woke me up, startled me.

She woke me up, you know, and she's like, Nancy, what was that noise?

Debbie had just moved in with me like two months before that, so she was sleeping on the floor.

Maybe that's why she heard noises before I did.

I listened and we heard some knocking around.

I said, I don't know, like,

hate to admit it, but almost annoying.

Like, go back to sleep.

We had no clue what was going on at Cayo a few blocks away, but I just had this sick feeling that there was something not right.

She said, I'm going to call my boyfriend.

He said, leave her alone.

She's probably with some guy.

And I said, no, she's not.

That's not Cheryl.

Cheryl and I had made a pact that no matter what you're doing, no matter what time of day it is, who you're with, if the phone rings, answer it, because maybe it's me needing help.

So I said, if you're that worried, call call her.

She'll answer the phone.

I called her and we could hear the phone because the wall was so thin and I could hear her whimpering and she wasn't answering the telephone.

And then we heard all the knocking around.

It just went from the middle of the house to the front of the house and then back through by the bedroom and through the kitchen and then it went silent.

I said, hang up and call 911.

I was standing outside of the sorority house when my radio crackles.

They just had a call that there was what appeared to be an assault going on about six blocks away from it could be the same person.

As inconceivable as that could be that somebody would strike twice within a small area, but you never know.

Less than a minute.

Get to the front door and peek through my curtain.

Policemen are jumping out of their cars with their guns out, surrounding the house and pounding on her door.

And she's not answering.

So they end up kicking it open and we could hear them screaming freeze as as they go into each room.

We were scared, we didn't know what was going on.

I looked at Nancy and she's like, Holy crap.

As they got back to her bedroom, one of them very loudly said, She's alive.

And at that point, Tevi and I just about melted.

Cheryl Thomas was severely injured.

Bondi used the same law to beat her that they used at Chi Omega.

Everything was basically chaos.

The entire law enforcement community was responding to the two different scenes.

We were questioned by multiple law enforcement.

It just seemed endless.

Nobody knew if the perpetrator was still there, if he was on the campus, if he had fled.

We were told by law enforcement

They had taken a chunk out of Cheryl's back door and a chunk out of our back door where the handle was.

His fingerprints were on Cheryl's door

and our back door as well.

That makes it harder to swallow too.

Of the five women assaulted that night, the three living victims are taken to the local ICU.

Tragically, two victims, Margaret Bowman and Lisa Levy, did not survive their injuries.

It really never hit me hard until I went to the morgue and saw the two young ladies that were deceased.

I was just flashing back to my two daughters and it just sent shivers up my spine and I said, this person will pay for this.

I personally examined the bodies.

I wanted to see if there was anything I could pick up.

I saw the bit of one of the victims and I focused on it.

I realized it wasn't just the bite, it was a double clamp, two really good bite impressions, almost like the signature.

My supervisor called me and said to go to the hospital, that I should bring a pad of paper and not leave their sides.

He felt like it would be more comfortable for young women to look at another young woman in case they were able to wake up and remember anything.

They were so incredibly injured and there was so much facial damage.

It was miraculous that he didn't hit them all one more time and end it for them.

We get reports on Cheryl every day but the hospital wasn't letting us go because she was in ICU.

Probably maybe five days in, one of the policemen came and said,

we would like you to come to the hospital and see Cheryl.

She's asking, Why am I here?

What happened to me?

She knows there are other girls involved.

The doctor just doesn't think she's improving like she should.

He suspects that she thinks the next news coming is that it was you.

The doctor really thinks she needs to see you.

And so

that was really special because she did get better.

Why did Ted Bundy choose me?

I still have no idea why.

I can't remember it happening to me.

I'm Cheryl Thomas, and I'm a survivor.

On January 15th, 1978, Tallahassee investigators respond to two of the most horrific crime scenes in their unit's history.

The three assault victims who survived fight for their lives.

Kathy Kleiner, Karen Chandler, and Cheryl Thomas were transported to Tallahassee Memorial Regional Medical Center.

They were so incredibly injured and there was so much facial damage that was miraculous that he didn't hit them all one more time and end it for them.

I can't remember being attacked at all.

To wake up in a room that you don't recognize was quite baffling.

And they didn't want to describe right away how I was hurt.

But my mother told me I was very upset every time a male nurse came into my room.

The police asked me, do you know of anyone that would want to do this to you?

I couldn't imagine anything that I had done to deserve that.

attack.

It was shocking to see her injuries and all the bruising that comes from those injuries and stuff.

I mean she was hardly recognizable.

That was a horror film in itself to see your roommate laying in a bed with purple and pink all over her face from being beaten, her jaw wired shut.

She had dark brown wavy hair down to the middle of her back and it was all full of blood.

So it literally stood out like this, just all full of blood.

I was a dancer

and suddenly I'm not a dancer anymore.

I wonder am I going to let this rule the rest of my life?

She just wanted to be a professional ballerina.

And he took that from her.

You know, she wasn't able to pursue her dream because of him.

It's just, you have to

take your changes and move on.

When something as horrible, I mean, as the Cuy Omega murders happen, law enforcement sends a teletype around the country.

In those days, that was the method of communication.

And absolutely, we felt that it was Ted Bundy.

I called down to the Florida authorities who were investigating the Chi Omega murders and warned them about Bundy.

He was quite possibly there.

I was getting calls from around the country.

I was getting agencies informing me about people on the run.

I'd even heard that there was this guy named Ted Bundy who had escaped and was missing.

It was just another name.

And we had a lot of names.

Despite the fact that police have been tipped off to Bundy's potential presence in Florida, he remains at large for a full month after the Florida State University attacks.

Ted Bundy was very chameleonic in his behavior and his looks.

He would often grow facial hair and shave his beard in a different way, sometimes dye his hair, and then help when he was a fugitive.

I don't necessarily know that he was a chameleon.

What he did is he grew a beard here and there.

He changed his hair a little bit.

He was just a world ahead of law enforcement.

He was definitely not a master of disguise.

But in the 70s, bad guys looked like bad guys.

They definitely didn't look like Ted Bundy.

Three weeks after being on the run, Bundy stole a van and drove 100 miles east.

He stopped in front of a school in Lake City

when he was in hunting mode.

And in that school was a little girl named Kim Leach,

who was 12.

Bundy grabbed her.

And a man who witnessed it just simply thought it was an angry parent taking his child from the school.

That was his last murder.

It was just after 1 a.m.

on February 15, 1978, that Ted Bundy was pulled over near the Alabama state line.

Ted Bundy wasn't a very good driver.

And when Ted Bundy saw a mark unit behind him, He just tried to drive off and drove through a couple of traffic lights.

And so the Escambia County deputy pulled him over and got him out of the car.

Ted Bundy's poor judgment and lack of caution would ultimately lead to his own downfall.

Bundy ran from the officers and he ran after him, tackled him and

that was the end of Ted Bundy.

As we think about it years later, it's too bad he didn't pull out his gun and shoot him.

When Bundy was arrested, at first he gave a false name, Kenneth Meisner.

He had ID that belonged to Meisner.

I'm Mike Minerva, and as a public defender, I defended Ted Bundy.

The police contacted Meisner.

Meisner, of course, was not guilty.

Then the police were trying to find out who this person that they had in custody really was.

Finally, he made the disclosure.

My name is Ted Bundy.

That name did not really mean anything to law enforcement at that time because Bundy was notorious in the West, but not in Florida at all.

Once he identifies himself as Ted Bundy, Florida investigators begin to look into his criminal past.

All the law enforcement agencies in North Florida were heavily researching him at the time, and every day there was more and more and more that was revealed about the depth of his criminal activity.

We were amazed.

They found he was on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list.

They began looking to see what he might have been doing when he was in Florida.

He would follow everything through the media.

If he did something, he couldn't wait to get the newspaper the next day to see how it was going to be reported.

Bundy matched the physical description of the man seen inside the Chi Omega house.

There was hairs and fibers in the van van that matched Kimberly Leach and matched Ted Bundy.

Investigators finally conclude that not only have they captured the man responsible for six homicides and assaults in their state, they have captured one of the most heinous criminals in America.

It was a proud moment for all of us.

You told him that you were going to get me.

He said he was going to get me, okay?

You've got the indictment.

It's all you're going to get.

Let's read it.

Let's go.

Ted Bundy did not act like a psycho.

He was charismatic.

He was very bright.

He's not the great sly killer that people thought he was.

I mean, he made mistakes and they got him.

I couldn't resist asking him, Ted, you're associated with 36 murders in four states.

How do you react to that?

He kind of leaned back, rolled his eyes, and said, well, Ken,

When you find

the person that committed these murders, that person is going to be wanted for the murders of girls in the three digits

in

six states.

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On February 15th, 1978, the most wanted criminal in the country, Ted Bundy, is brought into custody in Florida.

Is it ingenuity or simply the unassuming con he adopts that helped Bundy evade the law for so long?

Ted Bundy did not act like a psycho.

He wasn't weird.

He was charismatic.

He was charming.

He was funny, but he was a killing machine.

After Ted Bundy was arrested here in Florida, I received a call from authorities out in Colorado wanting to extradite him back to Colorado.

I told them the zession was nine-tenths of the law, and he was staying right here until we were finished with him.

My name is Larry Simpson.

I prosecuted Ted Bundy for the Cheryl Thomas assault and Kyle Omega sorority murders.

The judge decided that the Cheryl Thomas assault and the Kyomega murders would be tried at the same time.

The judge felt that the crimes were likely done by the same perpetrator because of the proximity, the time, and the same weapon was used.

The Kimberly Leach trial was scheduled separately to happen afterwards.

In Bundy's case, we knew we didn't have anything like an affirmative defense, such as

alibi.

So the best possible outcome was a signed plea agreement.

Because of the circumstantial nature of the cases, we reached an understanding with Bundy's lawyers that he would plead guilty to all of the cases.

He would receive life sentences, minimum, 75 years without parole.

He would never get out of prison, but he wouldn't be executed.

Unfortunately, we got to court the morning Bundy was supposed to plead guilty, and he started criticizing everybody involved in the case, and we pulled the deal.

After I ran into Mike Minerva, I told him, Mr.

Bundy just passed up the deal of a lifetime.

Refusing to accept a plea agreement is the first of many foolish decisions Bundy makes to his own detriment.

Decisions that would later be misconstrued as signs of his intellect.

He botched the plea deal because of his ego.

He insisted on going to trial.

Had he taken that plea deal, he still might be alive today.

Bundy, all through the case, wanted to be a participant.

Of course, Bundy had been to law school, so he wanted to show how skillful he could be in the courtroom, outwit the judge, outwit the prosecutor, and show off his smarts.

Finally, the judge said, all right, you want to have more say-so in this?

I'll make you co-counsel.

Even though Ted Bundy never even finished law school, the judge allows him to basically represent himself.

Ted Bundy thought he was a lot smarter than he really was.

It was bizarre, as characteristic of the whole Bundy episode, and it became a nightmare trying to defend him.

Throughout several months of pre-trial hearings, Bundy prepares for his own defense from the Leon County Jail.

But this time, authorities are taking no chances.

I had him in custody in my detention center.

And in my mind, he had escaped twice before.

So he was not going to escape from the Leon County Jail.

The state was like a bulldog to hold on to him and not let him go anywhere.

We put him in a cell that we had lined with quarter-inch steel

that had three locks.

and three keys held by three different deputies.

Where the light fixture was, we actually just simply cut openings.

There was nothing for him to undo, crawl through.

There was no place that he could penetrate.

Actually, he sued me for jail conditions.

The light source is totally inadequate to rebuy.

The only way one can read in that cell is to hold a document outside the bar to the available light that filters from the light source outside the cell.

It frustrates my ability to participate in preparation of my own defense.

The only lawsuit I lost was to Ted Bundy.

Please be seated.

Court will come to order.

In June 1979, Bundy stands trial in Miami for the Chi Omega and Cheryl Thomas attacks.

The trial was transferred to Miami after Judge Coward ruled there was too much publicity in Tallahassee, where the indictments were returned.

It's the first ever trial to be televised nationally in the U.S.

and is covered by over 250 reporters from five different continents.

Cameras in the courtroom were brand new.

This was certainly the biggest case that had ever been televised before.

It was a little bit surreal.

Each day, the courtroom is filled with spectators drawn by a fascination with Theodore Bundy himself or by the gruesome details of the crimes.

I'm not afraid of him.

He just doesn't look like the type to kill somebody.

It's been said that he's the sexiest serial killer of all time.

What's sexy about murdering women?

Bundy would be considered different from other serial killers.

He represented himself through his trials.

He felt like he was smarter than his attorneys.

He was not one that should have been assisting himself.

He didn't know enough about the law.

He just knew enough to get himself in trouble.

Bundy was going to be his own worst enemy and was going to help the state convict him.

Because he was co-counseled, Bundy was actually allowed in a destructive kind of way to cross-examine witnesses.

One of the things that happened was Mr.

Bundy decided that he wanted to question an FSU police officer about what the crime scene looked like with the Kyle Meg house.

Did you notice blood on any areas of the room other than what you've testified to earlier?

There was a large amount of blood around the top of the head and it's clattered on the walls.

Bundy brought out every single brutal detail that was found in that room.

Lawyers know better better than to play up the gruesomeness of the evidence if they don't have to.

Bundy did it himself.

Do you know what happened to him?

I've been told.

I mean, from your own personal knowledge.

Do you know?

Can I remember?

Yes.

No.

We all were summoned to go to Miami to appear on the stand in front of Ted Bundy.

I was a 20-year-old little girl.

I was scared.

It was a very odd situation because he was representing himself.

I was nervous because Ted Bundy would be sitting right in front of me.

Women would say he was so handsome, but knowing what he did, I don't see this handsome man.

He was writing, feverishly writing.

He never looked up at me.

When Nancy Young came back, she said the same.

When I gave my testimony, I never even made eye contact with him.

Like, I didn't have anything that...

he cared about.

But Cheryl, when she was on the stand and she looked over at him, he stared her down and he would not stop staring at her until she walked off.

At the trial, the prosecution presented three key pieces of evidence.

First, eyewitnesses that placed Ted Bundy in the vicinity of the victims on the night they were attacked.

Bundy was identified as being in Sherrod's that night, a nightclub that was right next door to the Chi Omega house.

The second piece of evidence was Nita Miri's eyewitness testimony.

She saw the offender exit Cai Omega on the night of the attacks.

Do you recall the man that you saw at the door of Tom Megan's house?

Yes, I do.

Would you point him out for us, please?

In strike suit with the red tie.

No further questions, Tom.

But the most fascinating testimony of the whole trial came from a dentist.

During the attack on Lisa Levy, the perpetrator had bitten her buttocks.

We wanted to make a comparison between Mr.

Bundy's teeth and the bite mark itself.

To my knowledge, it's never been done before, but we couldn't think of any reason why we couldn't do it.

One night, after dark, I went to his cell and I said, Mr.

Bundy, we're going out.

I know he was scared because he'd never been taken out at night like that.

When we entered the dental office, all of a sudden, he knew what we're going to do.

And Ted Bundy started screaming, where's my attorney?

I want my attorney.

I said, Ted Bundy, sit in that chair.

We have a warrant to read to you.

Dr.

Suveron brought with him some contraptions that are used for post-mortem removal of bite impressions to keep the mouth open.

And I said, show him what we're going to use if we have to.

Ted Bundy looked at me, he sat down in the dental chair, he laid back, opened his mouth, and he said

ken you know i'm not a violent person

i believe we served the first search warrant in history for a man's mouth the state tried to portray bite marks virtually the same as fingerprints and that no two are alike the defense fought tooth and nail to keep that out The lead expert for the state eventually came to the point of saying no other teeth than Bundy's could have made these bite marks.

Please be seated.

Court will come to order.

The trial of Ted Bundy, one of America's most notorious serial killers, grips the nation through the summer of 1979.

Every time he turns around, I kind of get that feeling, oh no, you know, it's gonna get me next.

But yet you're fascinated by him.

Bundy represents himself at his trials, promoting an image of a brilliant and charming criminal that would persist long after his death.

Bundy's self-perception was that he was a bright, good-looking guy who could have done anything.

He said to me several times, you know, I could be sitting on the other side of that table.

The Bundy trial lasted close to a month.

This was not a slam-dump case.

It was totally circumstantial.

And we knew it was a risky case.

We had to connect the dots and hope the jury agreed with us.

We, the Public Defender's Office, try to weaken the state's case with contradictions, impeachment of witnesses, improbabilities, logical arguments that says there cannot be a conviction because the state has not proven the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Once the jury went out, it was a little over six hours.

Nobody knew.

what was going to happen.

Before pronouncing the sentence, Judge Edward Coward let Bundy make a statement.

I'm not asking for mercy, for I find it absurd to ask for mercy for something I did not do.

The jury does hereby impose the death penalty upon the defendant Theodore Robert Bundy.

Ted Bundy was sentenced to death after a jury recommendation of seven to five for death.

It was a tremendous amount of relief that we had accomplished what we set out to do.

That was...

amazing news, but still not totally comforting because knowing how he had escaped in the past, there was a chance it could happen again, and he had my name.

I lived in fear until the day he was executed.

In January 1980, Bundy is tried at the old Orange County Courthouse in Orlando for the abduction and murder of Kimberly Leach.

Bundy went to trial for the Kimberly Leach murder approximately a month after the Kyomega case was over.

And he was convicted and he was sentenced to death in that Kimberly Leach case as well.

After his sentencing, Bundy begins serving his time on death row in Florida while awaiting his execution date.

And FBI profiler Bill Hagmire is tasked with profiling one of the country's most notorious killers.

I believe when you're dealing with a person like Ted Bundy with an ego he has, your best talking skills are listening because he liked to hear himself talk.

It doesn't matter how intelligent somebody is, we all have weaknesses, we all have warrants, and it usually has to do with ego.

For the first three years, he never admitted anything.

We would often talk about his crimes without him actually saying, I, Ted Bundy, did them.

He would speak in the third person, and he would talk about a serial killer.

Later on, he decided to use the I word and confess several murders.

They call it bones for time.

And he was willing to come clean on who he killed, how he killed them, and where the bodies were located.

For him to be negotiating for his life over the bodies of victims is despicable.

It was a bargaining ploy.

He thought that if he tantalized the police with enough information, he wouldn't be executed.

Even though every state in the country thought that he may have killed people there, and there were literally hundreds of agencies that wanted to be there, they decided that they would invite people from the states of Washington, Utah, Colorado, and Idaho.

He was hoping that we would speak in his behalf to the governor and attorney general of Florida, but we knew Florida wasn't going to do anything.

I'm here at Florida State Prison.

It's late at night.

Mr.

Bundy's been spending the whole day attempting to help authorities resolve unsolved homicides.

Ted, you've been involved in how many homicides?

We came up with 30.

Would you just try to summarize what states they were in and what periods of time?

California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, Florida between 1973 and 1978.

The best thing that he told me about was his abduction of one of the University of Washington girls, George Ann Hawkins.

where he got into some pretty good detail about how he abducted this lady and took her out to the Issaquah site.

He told me where her head would be.

You shared with us that in a couple of the cases you opted to sever the heads from the victims and how many were that do you recall of the 30?

Oh

perhaps half a dozen.

We had people up there searching and digging and everything and never found her skull.

It's a very complicated issue.

There are offenders, Ted Bundy being one of them, who will drag out something just as long as possible with a little tease of how much more information he's going to give.

And he'll be manipulative with law enforcement for just as long as you let him.

You could always tell by the smirk on his face that he definitely had knowledge of something that we were headed towards, that he didn't want to talk about anything that we didn't know anything about.

When it became obvious that there was no other information, there was no reason for me to be there anymore, it was over.

Nobody in the world can save his life right now.

He knows he's going to die.

After confessing to the murders of at least 30 young women across the country between 1973 and 1978, one of America's most prolific serial killers, Ted Bundy, is scheduled to be executed by Electric Chair on January 24th, 1989.

He has become infamous not only for his murders, but for his characterization in the press as unusually smart and handsome.

Ted Bundy is an articulate, attractive 42-year-old man, a former Boy Scout, law student, and Republican Party activist.

He also is the object of widespread loathing.

I would take a great deal of personal satisfaction in seeing Ted Bundy die.

I was in the warden's office,

just waiting for it to happen.

We knew he was executed when we heard everybody screaming and yelling.

Tackle that, Ted!

People shooting fireworks off, and it was, you know, we're a thousand people out there.

In their perception, justice was finally served.

Theater Bundy was executed at 7.16 in the electric chair at Florida State Prison.

Ted Bundy deserved the death penalty.

The electric chair is too good for him.

He should have some of the same things done to him as he did to all the girls.

He's an animal.

He's sheep mad dogs.

Even people that were anti-death penalty would tell me, Sheriff, I'm okay with this one.

One, two, three,

four, five, Cheryl Thomas.

Thank you.

40 years after Bundy's attacks at Florida State, Cheryl Thomas prepares to reunite with her college housemates housemates for the first time since the trial.

I'm not ashamed of who I am, and I'm proud and thankful to be a survivor.

It would give Ted Bundy power to let the attack take control.

Hey, Jail.

I feel nervous.

And that's the fight in me, not to let someone victimize you.

It's not the end.

Hey, Debbie.

How are you?

You look great.

I'm so happy to see you.

It's been a long time.

Hey, girl.

How are you?

So nice to see you.

Oh, my God.

Long over two years ago.

I need to Kleenex.

Oh, so many stories to share.

I can't believe it's been 40 years.

Who would have thought that we wouldn't get together?

Oh my gosh.

So are these yours?

Yeah, Yeah, I brought these in.

I never saw these pictures.

That's the front of our duplex.

Your door was right there on the right side and mine was on the left.

And that's me in my bedroom.

Look at this.

It's all coming back, the halter tops and the short shorts.

Yeah.

Would we wear that now?

Heck no.

Where did we take that?

We were in Miami after the trial?

Right, we were leaving for the airport.

You know what?

This was the last time we were together, if that was in Miami.

Is it the same, huh?

and there's the dance studio that was the the dance that we were rehearsing for just prior to the attack you got put in the part and I was made the understudy

you'd like to think the dance department would have let me dance your part even if I wasn't because we were both for a right and they knew that

but I did get to dance your part that was cool

so that was really great

and this one I brought, you both know Sheriff Pesares.

He was a really nice person.

We had a lot of friends that were policemen.

We had a lot of law enforcement friends.

We were going through one of the scariest times in our lives.

We knew that we had people that we could turn to.

Did you know the law enforcement,

they gave you the credit for saving my life?

Because if you had not called me when you did,

I would have died.

You just did what you do.

We're a friend.

I just wanted to say

thank you.

I'm so glad that you were my neighbors and friends.

Friends.

We're family.

Lifetime.

Thanks.

Especially after you go through something that we've gone through.

That's true.

That's true.

We're true survivors.

Yeah, that's true.

We are.

The

thinking is that there were at least 30 victims.

But he said the number is much greater than that.

It's been said that he's a genius.

His escape from Colorado was easy for him.

That he's a master of disguise.

He was very chameleonic in his behavior and his looks.

That he evaded law enforcement by not leaving any evidence behind.

Now you have DNA, very technical hair exams and red light cameras.

People are idealizing this killer.

The truth of the matter is Ted Bundy was a monster.

He just doesn't look like the type to kill somebody.

He was not the kind of person that would provoke suspicion.

And that made it easier for him to escape law enforcement.

He was pretty unique, but one of the things he said to me, do you ever have a daughter?

protect her because I'm not the only one out there.

There's more than one Ted Bundy.

Have you ever physically harmed anyone?

Ever physically harmed anyone?

No.

No.

The myth that Ted Bundy was so handsome and clever is dangerous.

There's been a lot of glamorization.

You forget about the women that did survive and those that did not.

And I never wanted to glamorize Ted Bundy.

For more information on Notorious, go to oxygen.com.

Hi, I'm Denise Chan, host of Scam Factory.

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