S21 E18: [SWW x WCN] S20, S18 & S7 Case Updates & Reflections

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Thank you so much for listening. I'm excited to record today with Amy, who is a producer on the Broken Cycle Media team.
She is the host of our other show, What Came Next? She is my best friend and season seven survivor. Thank you so much for recording this with me.
So number one, I don't have to do it alone this time. And number two, it's just awesome to have any opportunity for us to be able to chat because we're both so busy.
It's just nice to hang out as well. Agreed.
Thank you so much for having me always. I reflect often on how long we've been able to cultivate and grow our relationship, but I'm very grateful for it always, but especially when we can do stuff like this.
Okay. working our way back here.
Season 20. Oh my goodness.
Season 20. We're also going to hear some audio shortly from some of the survivors from season 20, answering some of your questions that y'all submitted to the Something Was Wrong podcast Instagram page.
But I did want to give some updates because there have been a few things that have taken place that we've gotten a lot of messages, DMs about, and I wanted to take a moment to address it at a high level. I think the best way to appropriately address it is to just read Karen, Jessica's mom's Facebook posts.
Okay. So Karen Yawkey, who's Jessica Pauly's mom, had posted, as many of you know, Jessica and ****** were in a bad car accident this morning.
****** was life-flighted to UNMC in Omaha. We are asking for all the prayers for healing and comfort during this difficult time for Jessica and ****** and the rest of the family.
The accident took place on June 5th, 2024, at 4.37 AM. Within hours of the accident taking place, by the time I was told about it, people were already making a lot of speculation.
Did Jessica cause this accident to happen on purpose? Did Jessica do this for attention? Did Jessica do this so that her family would speak with her again? Was this purely an accident? And investigations of that kind, from what I'm told, are extremely difficult. I have reached out to local state and highway police, and it was a lot of non-information in those conversations.
Over the following days of the accident, people started posting on local gossip Facebook pages and things, posting about this car accident, posting a lot of speculation. And some people were essentially accusing Jessica of crashing her car on purpose.
So her mom responded to these comments. It was in a Facebook group.
It's some sort of local tea room. So like it's literally a gossip Facebook group.
But Karen responds, this is Karen, Jessica's mom and grandma. I would like to speak on behalf of me and my family.
We had no idea what Jessica was doing and we are all devastated. We do not agree with it, nor do we make excuses for it.
She is working on herself. Five exclamation points.
However, this accident was not intentional. We ask that you and the others show compassion and respect for our family during this difficult time.
And then there's a Bible verse here. Do not judge others and you will not be judged.
Do not condemn others or it will all come back against you. Forgive others and you will be forgiven.
And she wrote like 637. I think she means Luke.
Then below that, it says, just to be clear, also, there was a pickup and camper was stalled on the right side of the road in which the semi driver went into Jessica's lane. And that being said, Jessica was going 75, not 100, which is the speed limit.
And the semi-driver stopped speed to 65. That being said, know the facts before posting rumors.
She had also posted later an update that Jessica's son was doing better and he was on the mend, which obviously we were all so happy to hear. And we continue to keep him in our thoughts and prayers.
Also, the big question that people were submitting, understandably, is, are there criminal charges? Why is Jessica free? Great question, everyone. We'd love to know that too.
After the accident, what I can say is I did reach out to local state and highway police for that situation. The FBI in every state that she has victimized in has been contacted to the best of my knowledge.
We have reached out to police multiple times. The victims have met with police, FBI.
At one point, it seemed like they were considering four to five different charges. Since then, we haven't heard anything.
It feels very discouraging, I would say, overall. Also, just to be transparent, we have done everything we can internally to make the correct authorities aware of what we know in a best effort to protect that child.
Because it's

sensitive, I want to be as sensitive to him as possible. He's been through a lot.
She seems to only be trying to move to the states of her stalking victims and get jobs very close to them, which just to me seems like not the move when you're accused of stalking people, but what do I know? I also wanted to share that after the season wrapped up this summer in July, I was able to head to North Carolina and Monica and her fiance. We had originally hoped for everybody to fly to LA and we were going to do this live show, but the people that were putting it on, it fell through again.
I swear putting on live shows is cursed. Knock on wood for me.
I flew to North Carolina. Monica and her fiance flew there.
We were able to hang out with Danny and her now fiance, Lauren was there, Bree. It was really, really cool to be able to do that, even though it was absolutely so sweaty.
Actually, I described it as steamy due to the humidity and the heat,

but I had a great time hanging out with them. And it was just really cool for all of us to be together in IRL.
And it was Monica and Kenton's first time meeting a lot of folks in real life in a real like genuine way because of how Jessica kept everybody separate. It was just a very cool adventure.
And we are also going to insert into this episode some Q&A clips that they recorded. And we hope to bring you more soon.
Hey, it's Monica. My first online question I'm going to answer is, have any of you dated online prior? I dated online prior for a very short period of time before Brody, before matching with him and talking to him.
My relationship prior was a high school relationship. So after that is when I started online dating, I went on a few dates with people from around here.
It was all fine and dandy and then matched with Brody. And in the beginning, I wasn't super interested in Brody just because we were both so busy.
We weren't close in distance. So I did still go on a few dates after we'd first matched.
And then there were actually a few times during our relationship that I had gotten back on dating apps because we were done and so on and so forth.

And I was trying to meet people and get over it and move on. And every time that happened,

he would have friends. I would see my profile.
It would be the end of the world again and really

go downhill. After Brody, I definitely did go back on dating apps.
And that is how I met my

now fiance. I've told him this, but actually the first time I matched with my now fiance was when I got back on a dating app and Brody and I were done.
And then I cut hell and got back off after things were officially done. Like I finally got Brody out of my life, got back on the dating app and slid into my now fiance's messages again.
It took a long time for that to work out for the trust and me to be ready to date after that, but he stuck with me and here we are. So dating apps can be good, but just be careful.
All right. Next question is, do you feel like you're suffering or have suffered from PTSD or hypervigilance since Jess? Yes.
Honestly, I think I was suffering from this a bit before Discovery without even really knowing it. not having the closure from Brody and going through all that I did with Brody alone without

talking to friends or I wasn't in therapy at that time because in my head, it was all me. And he slash Jess was very good at making me and us feel that way, like it was our fault and we deserve this.
I definitely am in therapy now going over all of this from years past that I've tried to delete out of my brain.

And honestly, I did a pretty good job of it.

I remember new things almost daily and see things that trigger my memory and talking to the other girls, constantly remembering new things that I had blacked out.

But yeah, therapy is helping now. We've tried some EMDR stuff, also doing acupuncture for PTSD.
And then I get little ear seeds in my ear when I do acupuncture. And that has helped, I think, probably the most so far just because therapy is hard.
And yeah, we're working through it. All right, going to answer one more.
If Jess didn't become a part of your life, do you guys think you would have dated Brody as long as you did? Absolutely not. Honestly, I was even questioning things before I was going to go to this race and I finally met Jess.
I was giving up and I don't know if she maybe felt that and decided that it was her time to intervene and introduce herself or what, but I definitely think having Jess in my life and her knowing him was something I really hung on to. Definitely after we became such good friends, I could not process in my head that it was even a possibility for the longest time, even though I wasn't meeting Brody and Jess is the only one that knows him.
She was one of my very best friends for years. There was no chance in my mind that a friend would do that to anyone.
And in my heart, I didn't want to believe that. In my head, I didn't want to believe that.
I didn't even want to think about that because friends don't do that to each other. Take a look at your best friend right now.
Would you ever in your life believe that that person would do that to you? I guarantee a lot of people will say no. And I think that's where people really need to understand that I think all of us obviously question Brody, but having that one person that knew him and her son who she would pull in on some of the stories, that verified it.
That was okay. She'd met him.
She's hung out with him. She has all these stories of going out to tailgates and going out to boating and all this stuff.
Why would you question that in a friend?

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Here's Lauren. do whatever necessary to make sure others know about it, especially your local law enforcement.
Don't let that embarrassment hold you back from potentially putting someone behind bars or potentially putting a spotlight on someone that is doing some incredibly horrible things. Next question.
I just wanted to say all the victims are extremely brave and incredible women. Many messages of support and love.
The outpouring of love and support we have gotten and continue to get has been amazing. And I'm so grateful to those who have taken time out of their day to let us know that we aren't alone.
Have any of you dated online prior? I had a few serious relationships that came out of online dating. My first boyfriend, we dated from like Tinder, I think, and it was very successful and it can be very successful.

I would say most of the people that I spoke with on there don't progress past small talk.

This generation's number one way of dating is online.

And I think that's fine, but there could be better verification slash security measures

that could be put in place to avoid things like that happening.

If Jess didn't become a part of your life, do you guys think that you would have dated Brody for as long as you did? Absolutely not. There were so many red flags from the start.
I think Jess really used that to her advantage as my friend telling me that she knew these people and inserting herself into these stories as well as getting her child involved. So I think that having her verify this relationship and verify that this person was real was the only reason I stayed.
What would you say to your past self to get away from Jess sooner if you had the chance? Some people, no matter how much they pretend to care about you, don't have good intentions. I would say look out for yourself, prioritize yourself.
I think there were a lot of things that I don't bash myself for when I went through this. I did set boundaries.
I did block him. I blocked him multiple times.
I stopped pursuing things. I tried dating other people.
Just had her hold on me as a roommate and a friend because she would share insecurities about herself and we would have long talks and I let that empathy take over rather than looking out for my best interest. Has your experience with Jess impacted your relationship since? My relationships have definitely been impacted since Jess.
Obviously the main issue I have is vulnerability. Following closely behind that is trust.
I have a hard time believing that people want the best for me. I enjoy being by myself and I've grown very independent where it has caused me to neglect other relationships in my life.
I have to consciously make an effort even when I'm scared of being betrayed again. Has Jess's family tried to reach out to any of the victims? No, they don't give a fuck about anything besides their reputation.
Thank you. How has everyone been mentally since the podcast aired? It has been an up and down roller coaster for sure.
I think everyone has really had some hard days as well as some really good days. And we feel that support from everyone around us.
I think a lot of us had to dissociate from it because it was too painful to process. Speaking from a year later, I would say we're all taking the steps to get that mental health that we need, and we're just continuing to strive to be better and heal from this.
What forms or types of therapy have you found helpful in your healing journey? I personally have tried EMDR in the past and that didn't really help me.

I didn't find it useful just for me specifically, but I'm currently working on a trauma narrative with my therapist and doing trauma therapy. I'm also doing some somatic exercises that are supposed to help release stored trauma in your body.
What do you wish law enforcement would do differently in your case?

Love to y'all, you're so brave.

Literally anything.

I feel like things were ramping up for a bit, but now it's just crickets.

I wish laws would catch up and something could be done about the sexual assault by deception.

I also wish CPS would have done more.

Do you feel like you're suffering or have suffered from PTSD and hypervigilance since Jess? I have been re-diagnosed with PTSD since discovery. It was one of the most traumatic experiences of my life.
For the most part now, I've experienced a ton of relief since getting that restraining order and moving out. I didn't realize I was going through what I would now consider Stockholm Syndrome with Brody and Jess until the truth came out about everything.

If you could say something to Jess right now, what would it be? P.S. You were all badass.

I have nothing to say to her. I honestly just thinking about her makes me want to bomb.
Here's Brie. All right, here we go.
Did I date online prior to the Brody situation? I definitely had dating apps before I met him. I never dated anyone seriously.

And of course, I never dated anyone seriously without meeting them.

This was kind of a secluded incident.

And of course, once Jess came into the equation and her reinforcing him and what a great person

he was, it just kind of amplified the whole situation.

And going off of that, there was another question.

If Jess hadn't become part of my life, would it have gone on for as long as it did? Absolutely not. Whenever I did get to a breaking point, which happened several times in the years this had gone on, she'd conveniently, quote, reach out as Jess to Brody to remind me he's a great guy and she'd show all these nice things that he would have to say about me.
And she was just always backing him 100%. And if it wasn't her reaching out to him, it was, quote, Brad or, quote, Matt.
Somebody else just reinforcing that this person really did care about me and that he was a good person. He just had a lot that he was working through and I just needed to give him a break.
All right, what would I say to my past self to get away sooner? Obviously hindsight is 20-20, but don't lie about meeting someone to your closest friends or family. Clearly if you can't tell your friends or family the truth, something is very wrong there.
And to just trust your gut, I definitely have multiple feelings that I just kind of pushed to the side or ignored or justified in my head, but those gut feelings aren't usually wrong. If I could go back, I would just trust myself a little bit more.
What do I wish law enforcement did differently? Well, there's a lot of things. Obviously, I wish the laws had caught up.
The United States as a whole is very behind on catfishing laws, but just in the initial steps of like having to tell my story at the courthouse and when I was filing a restraining order and people just literally looked at me like I was insane. I remember when I was filling out my papers for the restraining order, she was telling me I needed to hurry it up because the judge was about to leave and wasn't going to wait around.
Just to have feelings for people. You don't really know what people are going through.
And as your job serving the public in a position that way, I just feel it's really important and people need to keep that in mind. Have I suffered a PTSD since? I would say yes, probably not in ways that people might imagine.
I don't necessarily think hypervigilance has affected me as much, but I do feel like in relationships, even friendships, not necessarily romantic relationships, but bringing up situations where I have to talk to people at hard subjects is really triggering for me because I was always yelled at for being dramatic or crazy or why did I care so much? I'm just being difficult. It has affected me in a lot of ways and I'm trying to retrain my brain and communicating is actually healthy.
Setting boundaries is healthy. It doesn't make you crazy.
It doesn't make you a bad person. But kind of, yeah, retraining my brain on what's normal and what's not because nothing about the Brody situation was normal.
It was all control. It was all manipulation to the most extensive level one could imagine.
Here's Dani. Has the relationship with Jess affected your relationship since? And I feel like that definitely pertains to the girls, but I can speak on it as a friendship portion of

it because I feel like when you have somebody in your life who is like this whether we're not doctors so we can't diagnose her whether it's a narcissist or a psychopath sociopath whatever you want to call her because we truly don't know but when these people exist in your life and the mask falls and it's just a very confusing time, it feels like a tornado. I feel like you become hyper aware of everybody around you and what people can be capable of.
And it's really scary, truly. I feel like now I'm way more iffy about letting people in my life.
And I feel like now my boundaries are so much more stern. I don't think I will let people in my life randomly.
I think when I see something that I don't like, I cut people off a lot quicker. And that's very true this year.
It's just a really scary thing, whether it's somebody you're dating or whether it's a friendship or whether it's a boss once you experience it it's gonna change your life moving forward and everybody you let in your life is going to be hyper analyzed unfortunately so yeah I don't think I'm going to like make friends moving forward which isn't fair but it's okay how has everyone been mentally since the podcast aired um I mean it's been I think the last episodes were aired in July Now it's okay. How has everyone been mentally since the podcast aired? I mean, it's been, I think the last episodes were aired in July and now it's September, the end of September.
I'm doing good. I got engaged since with all the girls.
They all came out to visit. That was super fun.
And then Kayden popped the question on the beach. So that was super cute.
And since, you know, everybody has good days and bad days and I've been good. I'm sure the girls are on their own healing journey.
This is a lot to discover, and I've been just trying to, like, be open and listen wherever I can. What do you wish law enforcement would do differently in your case? Love to y'all.
You're so brave. I love you too.
And what do I wish law enforcement would do differently?

That is a loaded question.

I feel like firstly, if Jess was a man, she would have been prosecuted almost immediately.

I think the way the case was treated as a whole was a joke. I think the fact that it was catfishing, they kind of laughed at it and downplayed it for

what it was because it wasn't just catfishing. It was levels of stalking.
It was cyber stalking. It was fraud.
It was stealing identities. I mean, it was sexual battery, sexual, I mean, alleged, of course.
But this can fall under so many different laws in so many different states. And she did it in so many different states.
So I don't understand how she wasn't prosecuted in any of the states. Everything could have been done differently and it's really sad.
If you could say something to Jess right now what would it be? I think all I have to say is you never do the right thing but if you could do one right thing in your whole life please give your child to the person who can take care of him because it's not you. Obviously, you've done so much damage to him.

Like moving him around alone is horrible and everything else getting him to lie for you.

Please just give him to somebody who is actually going to give him a good life because it's not you. Good evening.
A Brantford woman who admitted to faking pregnancies and defrauding doulas has been arrested again and is facing new similar charges. Hamilton police say Caitlin Braun is now back in custody.
After they received reports, she was once again falsely soliciting pregnancy support. Her victims say they are not surprised that she's been caught for allegedly doing something similar just two and a half months after she was sentenced.
Even the judge that day raised concerns it would happen again. This was February 2024 when Caitlin Braun was sentenced.
But doulas say they knew then Braun would end up in the court system again. Hamilton police confirm additional charges were laid yesterday.
The new charges include a second count of obtaining by false pretense, as well as false information and fraud under $5,000. The alleged incident dates were between April 28th and April 30th.
April 30th was the same day Braun was rearrested by Hamilton police. Braun was serving a two-year sentence of house arrest after she pleaded guilty to deceiving doulas.
There's seven episodes on season 18 covering the story of Caitlin Braun's victims, both from the perspective of an ex-best friend, doulas who were scammed by her, and an ex-girlfriend of Braun's. And I had recorded an update, I believe, during season 19, sharing that Caitlin had been sentenced to two years house arrest, three years probation, which honestly I felt like was complete bullshit.

The Hamilton police confirmed with CTV News that there were three new charges brought against Braun.

Braun was arrested by Hamilton police on April 30th and charged the following day and related to Braun falsely seeking support for pregnancy and childbirth from another victim. Braun has been in custody since April 30th, and I'm told that she'll be heading back to court.
But yeah, unfortunately, not surprising. I just hope that they'll take this as serious as it is this next time and continually thinking of all of the survivors that we worked with and the other doulas who have been conned and scammed and harmed by her.
As you've mentioned before, legislation is prevention. When we take action against these perpetrators, we're preventing other victims in the future.
If she was in prison, we would not be having to file more charges for more victims. I mean, this is such a travesty in the way that the response is also falling short.
It's also unique because this story is taking place in Canada. So the laws are a little less familiar to me.
And also the laws are behind in other places besides the US. It's a fine line too with stalking and how she targets specific women and finds doulas and then starts messaging them.
And it reminds me a lot of the perpetrator we're going to talk about for season 22. I'm not going to share her name yet, but the perpetrator for season 22, one of her things that she's really into that she uses some of her scam money for is yoni massages, which I don't know how to describe that yet.
But essentially, it's like a sexual massage. And it's something I'd never heard of before the same way I had never heard of birth fetish.
So we're always listening and learning here. Season 22 is another long form season.
I cannot wait for you guys to hear this season. There is so much unique audio and insight.
Let's just say jailhouse audio that is so compelling and the survivors' range of all areas of life. And I have the privilege and honor of telling several of her victim stories, as well as interviewing the people who created these sort of vigilante community schemes to ultimately get this woman arrested.
Her impact is extremely harmful. I was just recording with one of the survivors, Tom, until late last night, and we were wrapping up and the emotional impact that this had on him is so far reaching.
And I really hope that a lot of survivors of scams and cons of this kind will really felt seen and heard within this season. If anybody listening would like to submit their story to either Something Was Wrong or What Came Next, you can do that on our website, somethingwaswrong.com.
Click on Share Your Story and you can submit through there. Also, we have a new cover for season 22 of the theme song I cannot wait for y'all to hear.
It's just absolutely gorgeous cover. If any other musicians are interested in partnering with us on a theme song cover collab, please reach out to us at business at tiffanyreese.me.
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Amy, I'd love to hear from you first about Let's Make a Deal. I haven't got to watch it yet.
I really cannot wait. Oh, God.
It's so embarrassing. Why? Tell me.
I've watched it a couple times and I'm like, oh, my God. I mean, as you can imagine, I was very overzealous and I won a car.
And I'm already like such an energetic person. I think I just was like, oh, that's what I look like winning a car.
It's like listening to yourself back. It's never not cringe for me.
But I'm sure it's fantastic. I can't wait to finally see it.
I've been recording like every episode. I thought that was just fun and exciting.
If you guys watch Let's Make a Deal and you're like, wait, was that ABC? Amy B. Chesler on Let's Make a Deal winning a car? You're how right it was.
And I just love that for you. You deserve all the best things.
And do you mind sharing a little bit, though, about your history with Let's Make a Deal? Because I think it's something you talked about in your season. Yeah, I did.
I think I mentioned it as much as possible because there are certain things in my journey that stand as symbols of why I do what I do or that I'm on the right path. And the let's make a deal thing is definitely one of them.
Let's make a deal. Actually, my mom was on it 50 years ago.
So spoiler alert for those who maybe forgot season seven or haven't listened. But I did lose my mom to domestic violence, unfortunately.
and so I haven't seen her or heard her voice for many, many years, 17 years to be exact, since losing her. And originally, I remembered that like that recording of her was the last recording of her.
So in seeking that recording of her online 12 years ago, I actually found a way to just get on the show myself. And I ended up on the show and won a car.
I actually gambled it away as like the last deal of the day and lost it. I ended up taking home Asana, which my ex-husband kept when I moved out.
Then like I had this kind of lingering, man, I should never have given that car away. Fast forward to this year, I received an email from the casting gods from Let's Make a Deal.
And it said, like, has your parent ever been on the show? And in about 30 seconds, I signed up for it because I was like, yes. And then I ended up getting on the show in a whirlwind of events.
I ended up getting picked and I won another car. So technically, I was saying to my kids the other day, I wonder if I'm the only human in Let's Make a Deal history.
Am I a world record holder of like two cars on the same game show in two different episodes? I wonder. But it's just amazing.
And I'm very grateful. To me, it's like another cool way to like try to reconnect with Hadass in a way.
Absolutely. If anybody can help us find the footage, what's the do you know the episode number? Like, is there some nerd that could like make your life and find this for us? I will give information.
I know she was on the show when she was about 18 to 20. So that would have been in 1970 to 1972.
I know she was dressed as a bunny. I know that Monty Hall was the host, of course.
And I know she won a year's supply of tinfoil and a year's supply of crazy glue from the show. And that was what she took home.
Was it like to make tinfoil hats or something? Was that the joke? I don't know. It was just very random.
And I do like to share that what I ended up, the first episode I ended up on, Let's Make a Deal, it was my episode. The first one is 3152.
And that happens to be my mom's lucky number three on her birthday, 152, January 1952. It felt very special.
I was receiving a gift from like basically heaven for my mom, if you will. I said to the kids the day before, I'm like, mommy's going to let's make a deal tomorrow and mommy's going to win a car.
Not because I knew that. I had no prior knowledge.
I just felt it. And then I got to say to them the next day, mommy won a car, which was pretty badass.
Hell yeah. Manifest that shit all day.
We love to see it. And like you said, when we were joining, what came next? Over three and half million downloads now, crushing it.
Obviously, we can't talk about every incredible story that you've covered on What Came Next. But I do want to highlight that one that we haven't aired yet on this feed that you can find exclusively on the What Came Next feed.
First is a season 19 update from Amy regarding Morrison. A lot of updates from her about hearings and upcoming release dates, and also connecting with other survivors and finding new evidence through the podcast.
So definitely, we'll link that in the episode notes. But I'd love to hear from you, Amy, a few other stories that you've been working on recently that have been featured over on What Came Next? Yeah.
Well, I think what the listeners might be interested in, especially, is we recently shared John Michael Lander's story on the Something Was Wrong feed via What Came Next. But what was special about that, too, was that he was our official first What Came Next update.
So he gave us the ability to kind of give an update on his journey and the awards he's won, the impact he's curating, the programs he's developing as a result of actually a lot of it came from his What Came Next interview and the connections that we've kind of formed together. So that was really exciting.
And then we also did a host swap where he became the host of What Came Next for an episode. And I was able to share some more updates.
I know we just shared on the Something Was Wrong feed, an update from my journey that you were a part of. And I will forever, endlessly be thankful for the role that you played for me, always as my best friend, but also just especially that day as like an advocate, literally.
I listened to it again before posting it, as is my tradition, but it just brought back all of it. It's like I almost, I didn't forget because it impacted me forever, but it's like the shit we've gone through, Amy, and all the shit we've done together in just these last few years, it's hard to even keep track of all of this.
And it just brought me back. And I was like, wow, that was a really rough time.
I feel like for both of us in life, we were kind of going through it. And I can like hear how frustrated and kind of broken that I felt after seeing the way that you were treated.
I think it's important to share the highs and the lows of this work and of the survivors process. I think you've done such an incredible job with what came next and your own story sharing the continuous journey that you have to face.
It's so powerful hearing your perspective and hearing about what you went through. And it just really opened my eyes to what persons like you have to continually fight for and seek on behalf of your loved ones and your own safety because he's made death threats against you.
He's stabbed all of these people while in prison. It's the insanity.
The shit never ends, as the episode is called. But I'm curious if there have been any other updates for you or what we can do to support that continued journey.
Yeah, thank you. Yes, there have been.
I did share if people want to go and listen to kind of an expanded version of what I'm about to share and more in depth. John Michael Lander did a host swap and he ended up hosting the space for me to share all of the updates.
But basically, we had that hearing. I felt that renewed sense of hope.
And then not long after the rug was pulled out from under again, when I got a notification about my brother's next parole hearing. Now, of course, I knew this process was kind of never ending.
I just thought, hey, he was just convicted of attempted murder and a criminal death threat. You'd think parole was off the table.
That was where my mind was. I guess I thought, how could he be going through a parole process if these extra offenses were just tacked on? I've actually spoken to several people in the victim's advocacy office in different levels, either through the prison process or through the prosecutor's office.
And nobody really has

concrete answers for me because nobody quite gets it because we're all in different factions. And it's quite interesting because doing what came next, I've interviewed more advocates and I'm learning more about the advocacy systems and like how it works.
So I think a lot of people feel as lost as I do, even the people working in the system. But what I've learned is one of the sentences he received that day was concurrent and one was not, meaning the six-year death threat against me.
Technically, he executed it in 2021. He received six years for that.
He only has to serve 85% of that term before he's up for parole. Technically, that started and he gets time served backwards.
So he's almost already done, I believe, with that sentence. He's also waiting to get paroled for my mom's murder still, even though he got the 30 years to life for the attempted murder of the correctional officer.
That doesn't begin until he's paroled for the other crimes is what my current understanding is. I've received two dates.
I've received both a 2025 parole date and a 2026 parole date. Now, that doesn't mean he's going to be let out, right? But it does mean that I have to go and make statements again.
It does mean that I'm subjected to what we just got subjected to in 2023. It's just a wild process that I don't really have a full grasp on.
And that's the what came next of it all is it's all still coming next. And I believe there's two hearings coming next.
So I have revived the petition that I did take down at one point. I've also filmed a new TV show with that DA that charged him.

You met DA Allen that day.

Oh yeah, he's the one who told me, you don't have a gun?

Yeah, he gave me explicit suggestion to get one.

But he did that TV show with me to update the process as well.

I might learn something from that, but I don't even think he'll cover that.

When does that come out?

It came out in the UK in August.

In America, it comes out in October. It's called A Killer in My Family.
That's what the show is called. It's an overview, but it goes all the way through.
And they did let me mention what came next. I don't know if it'll be cut out, but they let me carry into the advocacy portion of my journey as well.
And they interviewed DA Allen. I think they even include the video that we denied watching that day.
So yeah, it'll be an experience watching that as it always is when you consume the media that you make. But yeah.
Well, in all the weird comments you get, like when you did Evil Lives Here, didn't you get like a bunch of creepy ass messages from people? I think you talked about that in episode one of what came next. Yeah, I get, you know, people just the internet's a wild, crazy place.
Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, stay safe, friends.
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